--- Log opened Thu Apr 12 00:00:39 2018 --- Day changed Thu Apr 12 2018 00:00 < saderror256> um... yes those are lightweight, but I mean Graphical web browsers 00:01 < Psi-Jack> saderror256: Sure. Chrome. Lightweight and secure. 00:01 < Psi-Jack> Enjoy 00:02 < saderror256> Did you just call Chrome lightweight? no way 00:02 < Psi-Jack> Compared to Firefox, it sure is. 00:02 < saderror256> The issue is is that RPI3's Raspbian OS come with Chromium 00:02 < phinxy> lightweight? Midori or whats it called. 00:03 < Psi-Jack> saderror256: And the.... actual issue is...? 00:03 < saderror256> Psi-Jack: Horribly slow browsing speed 00:03 < Psi-Jack> Well. it's a horribly slow processor, with horribly slow memory. 00:03 < whytrytofly> hey everyone. i want to invest into a new laptop. kinda confused by all this new stuff on the market 00:04 < saderror256> Psi-Jack: And why do you think im here :P 00:04 < Psi-Jack> I mean, if you want a powerful small computer, get an Intel NUC, not a RPi. 00:04 < whytrytofly> can you give me some thumb rules? 00:04 < saderror256> phinxy: give it a shot 00:04 < Psi-Jack> saderror256: To.... Ask silly questions and assume wrongly about everything? :} (why do you seem to be here, to me) 00:05 < saderror256> Psi-Jack: Well your options have been tried x) 00:06 < Psi-Jack> The RPi, specifically, has the budgetted low-end licensed ARM processor, that doesn't even have the higher performance speculating CPU instruction set. Granted this prevents it from being Spectre/Meltdown vulnerable, but also makes it incredibly that much slower. 00:06 < phinxy> saderror256• You could also try Firefox nightly, its gotten a lot faster 00:06 < Psi-Jack> Yeha, then he'd likely have to compile it or worse, cross-compile it to work on his RPi. :) 00:07 < saderror256> Im a programmer, sure, I could use a higher end computer but as a programmer? Lol compiling for me only takes about a second 00:07 < hvxgr> nice dd if=/dev/zero bs=1G count=128 status=progress > bigfile # (fedora 27, dell latitude w/8GB ram, i5) Finishes, but entire laptop locks up while it runs (mouse cursor froze, 'top' froze, computer time of day clock freezes, ^z ^c ^\ all are ignored, cannot open virtual console. 'bigfile' is exactly 128GB at end. (writing to USB external drivei, mounted as 'fuseblk') 00:07 < phinxy> Compiling Firefox is not a hard thing to do 00:07 < phinxy> are there no ARM / RPI binaries, really? 00:08 < Psi-Jack> Hard? Nah. Time consuming? Absolutely, for something as large as Firefox. :) 00:08 < phogg> you want fast disks and fat amounts of RAM 00:08 < revel> Psi-Jack: What else do you suggest? Chromium? Note: That'll take quite a bit longer. 00:09 < revel> phinxy: Are you trying to use a pi as a desktop? 00:09 < Psi-Jack> revel: He seems to be. 00:09 < phogg> these days your web browser choices are incompatible and heavyweight 00:09 < saderror256> ^^ 00:10 < saderror256> Midori is nice 00:10 < Sonolin> yea Midori is probably the last choice for a modern lightweight browser 00:11 < Sonolin> there's also qutebrowser but uses WebEngine (unless you want to be stuck with webkit2) 00:11 < jkemppainen> Midori is also buggy 00:12 < Psi-Jack> ^ 00:12 < Psi-Jack> And very likely has security flaws. :) 00:12 < hehehe> Jesus said do not judge :P 00:12 < jkemppainen> honestly, a Pi isn't really meant to be a desktop; it has its uses, such as a light server, etc. 00:12 < revel> Well, he's not here, is he? 00:12 < hehehe> I went to a Pi seminar 00:13 < phogg> There are a bunch of chrome-based browsers that are somewhat less bad, but security problems are an issue for a niche browser which updates infrequently 00:13 < hehehe> jkemppainen: can pi be used to test app - for example car app - pi with added sensor 00:14 < jkemppainen> hehehe: it's probably better suited for stuff like that, yeah 00:14 < saderror256> no judging, but, I think Pi's are good for programming personally. I dont game or really do anything, just code and chat here. 00:14 < Psi-Jack> Technically the Pi was designed for the very idea to have a computer for everyone, cheap, however it's actual USES turned into a whole lotta things. 00:15 < saderror256> Rpi are much better for other things too like servers. I love me some pi! 00:15 < Psi-Jack> If you want a decent small computer that has some power behind it, though. Intel NUC. Hands down will blow the RPi3 out of the water. 00:15 < hehehe> i have bought atom quad core lenovo 100s for 120 usd :) 00:15 < Dagmar> Actually the RPi's are quite a bit more powerful than one would expect 00:15 < hehehe> are they? 00:16 < Dagmar> They've got more power than any netbook, and that they run on next to no power is almost lulsy 00:16 < saderror256> Dagmar: I totally agree, even though I dont game much, games like neverball (impossible) and nexiuz run at 60fps using only 20% of my cpu 00:16 < Psi-Jack> Dagmar: That have some power, sure. But the lack of speculation and caching related to that does hinder them a lot more. 00:16 < Dagmar> I've got one mounted inside a hollow book with 4 18650 cells that I use for various portable wireless shenanigans 00:17 < phogg> Dagmar: how clandestine of you 00:17 < Dagmar> It'll run for 24 hours driving both wireless dongles on about 10kmAh 00:17 < Dagmar> phogg: Gotta keep the smurfs in check somehow 00:17 < Psi-Jack> 18650's? You can't even charge those while using them. ;) 00:18 < Dagmar> Psi-Jack: That woudl also require me spending more than about $20 on the charging circuit and battery holder 00:18 < Dagmar> I built the thing to be inexpensive 00:18 < Psi-Jack> Okay. Add $1. ;) 00:18 < Dagmar> It doesn't kill the power if I plug it in to recharge while it's running, and that was good enough for me 00:18 < saderror256> whoops im back 00:19 < Dagmar> When I'm using it it gets plugged into the second 2A port on the 12v socket in my car 00:19 < Dagmar> Once the GPS stabilizes it starts tracking nearby wireless clients 00:19 < saderror256> Pis do the job. low power, low amount of problems. If you are some guy that loves compiling with gentoo and plays FPS games 24/7 then tis not for you 00:20 < Dagmar> Yeah for a simple webserver a pi is great. If you're expecting to do a lot of compiling or run a serious database, maybe not so much 00:20 < saderror256> im on pidgin using the pi rn 00:20 < Dagmar> They'll run home DNS and wireless management quite handily 00:20 < Psi-Jack> rn? 00:20 < saderror256> Psi-Jack: Right now\ 00:20 < Dagmar> If they'll make one with dual-gigabit ports (that AREN'T hobbled by a USB 2.0 bus) I'll be super happy 00:21 < Psi-Jack> Incorrect. 00:21 < Psi-Jack> rn = Registered Nurse. :0 00:21 < kavity> Hehe, compiling gentoo on a pi would be quite humorous. 00:21 < Dagmar> I was a little disapointed that the newest Pi has that limitation 00:21 < saderror256> im on pidgin using the pi registered nurse 00:21 < kavity> My mudder is an rn. :O 00:22 < saderror256> rn and m. 00:22 < Dagmar> It's handy that they'll do gig-E now, but the bus gives me flashbacks to trying to use those accursed 509 Vortex ISA cards 00:22 < Psi-Jack> saderror256: This channel is not very tolerant/accepting of sms-speak (shtsk, unusual/annoying "abbreviations") 00:22 < kavity> What is shtsk? 00:22 < saderror256> ^^^? 00:22 < Dagmar> sh*tspeak 00:22 < Psi-Jack> Err, shtspk. (short speak, shit speak, etc) 00:23 < kavity> Ahh, got ya. 00:23 < Psi-Jack> My own language I coined like 20-something years ago 00:23 < Psi-Jack> Word*\ 00:23 < kavity> I'm not hip with the lingo of them young whippersnappers. 00:24 < Psi-Jack> You'd rather them get off your lawn>? ;) 00:24 < saderror256> im using abbreviations becuase I am eating yummy 00:24 < Psi-Jack> eating yummy? Poor yummy. I bet he's not happy about that one bit. 00:24 < kavity> Psi-Jack: Exactly! Mind you, I'm only 31... I just feel like an old man most of the time. 00:25 < saderror256> im 14 heh 00:26 < Psi-Jack> saderror256: Well, keep in mind, what I said about shtspk earlier, is a channel rule, so it doesn't really work to use an excuse that, you're eating. :p 00:26 < saderror256> Psi-Jack: not yummy, yummy is my best friend! 00:26 < Psi-Jack> And on that note.... Time to head home for the evening. :) 00:26 < saderror256> Psi-Jack: thanks for the heads up 00:46 < ayecee> so, random hardware question - looking for a router that does the typical soho nat thing, can act as an ipsec endpoint, and ideally runs linux under the hood. Any suggestions? 00:46 < ayecee> the ubiquiti edgemax is one option, but i'd like to hear others. 00:47 < ayecee> err, edgerouter 00:49 < granttrec> when downloading files from source, like github, where do I download them? /opt/ or /$HOME/bin or /usr/local/bin ? 00:50 < ayecee> like, individual binaries? 00:50 < RayTracer> you don't download source to bin dirs.. better use eg. $HOME/src 00:51 < granttrec> no binaries just source 00:52 < hatp> If I am backing up a drive that is mostly empty and compressing with gzip, can I expect a 256GB zipped drive to fit onto a 32GB USB drive? 00:52 < ayecee> yeah, source doesn't belong in directories named bin 00:52 < hatp> Or maybe the empty parts of the drive aren't zeroed out? 00:52 < ayecee> maybe just download it to your home directory. 00:52 < RayTracer> granttrec: ~/src/ is where I have all kinds of sources 00:52 < ayecee> hatp: yes, if the empty parts are zeroed out 00:53 < hatp> ayecee How can I empty them out from a live disk? It's also a windows disk 00:53 < hatp> I'm just trying to backup this stupid windows copy before I install mint for my mom. I'm told W10 doesn't really have a product key you can backup 00:53 < granttrec> know any good guide for home directories? And do you just skip ~/src/ for backups? 00:53 < ayecee> hatp: dd if=/dev/zero of=zerofile until the drive is full, then delete the zerofile, is the easiest way 00:54 < ayecee> hatp: W10 doesn't normally need a product key. it's usually a digital license that's part of the.. bios? 00:54 < ayecee> some bit of firmware, anyhow. 00:54 < RayTracer> I don't skip that for backups.. just 11G atm 00:55 < tsuzuku> Hello, apologies if this is not the right channel to ask this. I honestly have no idea where to ask this. I am using the latest Ubuntu, and I noticed something strange when I tried to use hexdump. When I type in hexdump it gives me the bytes in a different endian order than if i were to do hd even though they are the same exact program. And I'm not sure why. And also it seems to print out what i assume is a 00:55 < tsuzuku> visual representation of memory? But im not sure. Any ideas on how i can just make it print out the numbers. Here is what gets printed out at the moment. https://hastebin.com/kugunutepu.rb 00:55 < hatp> ayecee: exactly. So if I just wipe the W10 paritions and install linux, I can go back to W10 by just inserting any W10 iso? 00:55 < ayecee> hatp: probably yes. 00:56 < granttrec> RayTracer, dumb question but there's no tools like package managers for managing source files? 00:56 < Sonolin> hatp yes, without all your data on the HDD of course 00:56 < ayecee> when prompted for a key, click on "i don't have one". It'll use the digital license that's built in. 00:56 < ayecee> it'll definitely have one if the system originally came with W10. 00:57 < RayTracer> granttrec: usually not, although there are .src.rpm, but most of the time it's just git or alike 00:59 < granttrec> ok cool, what are you thoughts on packagers? is there any benefit to nix? 00:59 < ayee> https://pastebin.com/urv5h8T9 .. my df -h says I'm using 9.4 gigs, but when I do du -hs /, it only shows 460 megs used. Why are they so different? 01:00 < ayecee> ayee: usually it's because you deleted a large log file that's still open by whatever generated it 01:00 < RayTracer> granttrec: a .src.rpm is easier to start with if the task is to make a small fix to existing package 01:02 < RayTracer> granttrec: I don't know nix 01:04 < ayee> ayecee: is there a way to fix that? or sync or something? 01:04 < granttrec> RayTracer: thanks for your sage advice 01:07 < ayecee> easiest way is to reboot. next easiest way is to restart whichever program has that file open. 01:08 < ayecee> usually rsyslog if it was a log file 01:09 < mrrmx> Sveta_, you there 01:09 < mrrmx> Sveta_, I changed the pcie card from a 4x to a 16x and it works 01:10 < mrrmx> I'm hoping the external HDD won't disconnect while transferring files 01:15 < mrrmx> Sveta_, I just transferred 100+ GB without any issues 01:17 < mrrmx> Sveta_, thanks 01:22 < sarthor> Hi, Is there any free solutions stream video from multiple cameras Online? 01:23 < sarthor> Hi, Is there any free solutions stream video from multiple cameras Online? 01:23 < strixdio> with openvpn, I'm getting Options error: Unrecognized option or missing parameter(s) in $file:5: ncp-ciphers (2.3.10) - I'm not seeing how to fix this in an actual config file. anyone know? 01:24 < ayecee> maybe remove that option from the file 01:24 < strixdio> oh derp 01:24 < strixdio> yeah hahahaha 01:24 < strixdio> I thought I had to *add* it LOL 01:24 < ayecee> :) 01:25 < phogg> sarthor: multiple cameras, one camera. What's the difference? 01:25 < strixdio> thanks ;) 01:25 < strixdio> what the hell 01:25 < turbo64> in gnome is there a way to make it so pressing the escape key will close the application menu instead of going back to the overview 01:25 < phogg> sarthor: what kind of streaming do you want to do? Running your own TV studio? 01:25 < strixdio> more errors. I wonder if pfsense needs to be updated. 01:27 < Sveta_> mrrmx, great 01:27 < Sveta_> mrrmx, I'm glad you solved it. What was the desktop manufacturer and model name? 01:27 < mrrmx> the pcie card? 01:27 < mrrmx> desktop? 01:28 < sarthor> phogg: want to stream some even online (youtube) for 30 days. the event will have multiple cameras, so the cameras stream should switch automatically to every next camera after some preset time. 01:28 < mrrmx> Sveta_, what info do you need? 01:28 < sarthor> some event& 01:28 < sarthor> phogg: some event* Sorry typo. 01:28 < mrrmx> Sveta_, hold on 01:30 < mrrmx> Sveta_, http://www.microcenter.com/product/448499/2_Port_USB_31_PCI-e_Card 01:30 < mrrmx> that's what I bought today 01:30 < mrrmx> I'm getting about 70 MB/sec 01:32 < Sveta_> mrrmx, the desktop / mobo 01:32 < phogg> sarthor: get OBS Studio 01:33 < Sveta_> mrrmx, I'm a little curious here as to why it did not like your 4x card but the 16x one was okay (and how long the file transfer took) 01:33 < phogg> sarthor: if you can get your cameras recognized as video devices by Linux then you can do that and anything else you can imagine 01:34 < mrrmx> Sveta_, https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/hp-elitedesk-705-g1-microtower-pc/6893881/drivers 01:34 < mrrmx> that's my PC 01:34 < texla> Looking for user friendly Linux o/s to install on a System 76 laptop 7.8 gb memory :Intel® Core™ i7-4810MQ CPU @ 2.80GHz × 8 :grapics Intel® Haswell Mobile x86/MMX/SSE2 :disc 45.7 GB 64 bit 01:34 < mrrmx> Sveta_, it also has problems with NIC (I had to buy an Intel pcie NIC) 01:34 < sarthor> phogg: what about IP cameras? can we use IP cameras like hikvision HD 2MP PTZ camera? 01:35 < smootimus> Where that dude at? 01:35 < Sveta_> mrrmx, http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c04383044 may help you identify what kind of pci slots it has and does not have 01:35 < phogg> sarthor: if it can be recognized as a v4l2 device in linux then you're good to go 01:36 < Sveta_> mrrmx, it says it has a x16 pci express downshifted to x4, and another one which is x16 etc 01:36 < Bunk> Hello ! 01:36 < mrrmx> Sveta_, I tried the x4 without luck 01:37 < sarthor> phogg: should I go with Windows version or Linux? the say "The original Open Broadcaster Software bundle comes with both 32-bit and 64-bit versions and is available only for Window" 01:37 < sarthor> they* 01:39 < k12buntu> Anyone have any weird lesser-known distros? 01:39 < Psi-Jack> ayecee: Ubiquity, definitely. I have both the EdgeRouter-X, and EdgeRouter Lite PoE (which powers my WiFi 01:39 < Sveta_> mrrmx, i'm wondering which slot (with which number on page 10) you were using 01:39 < mrrmx> Sveta_, the X4 01:40 < promet> How would you connect to a remote machine, via ssh, that is connected (the remote) via a vpn? It doesn't respond with the reported vpn ip, nor the internal tun0 ip. I assume this is possible, but don't know... 01:40 < mrrmx> Sveta_, I just bought the card today 01:40 < Sveta_> mrrmx, that's labeled as '1' on the picture? 01:40 < mrrmx> hold on 01:40 < Sveta_> mrrmx, i mean which slot on the mother board you were inserting the card in 01:40 < mrrmx> the last one down 01:40 < Sveta_> ok 01:41 < phogg> sarthor: never used it on Windows, can't comment. OBS is the original, OBS Studio is different. 01:41 < Sveta_> it' interesting, i thought the '1' one wa x4 and the '4' one was x16 01:41 < mrrmx> ah 01:42 < mrrmx> Sveta_, yes 01:42 < mrrmx> you're right 01:42 < mrrmx> the top one is X16 01:42 < mrrmx> the last one is X4 01:43 < Sveta_> mrrmx, so if you've got an x16 card from a shop, put it into the top one (black #4) I think 01:43 < Sveta_> mrrmx, and if you've got an x4 card from a shop, put it into the bottom one (white #1) 01:44 < mrrmx> Sveta_, the pcie card I got today is for X4 or more 01:44 < mrrmx> minimum 4X 01:44 < Sveta_> mrrmx, okay, great 01:44 < Sveta_> hopefully it keeps working this way :-) 01:44 < phogg> sarthor: you may also find you need https://obsproject.com/forum/resources/advanced-scene-switcher.395/ or some other plugin to get the exact behavior you want 01:45 < sarthor> phogg: thanks. reading.. 01:50 < strixdio> anyone ever have tmux give weird results where it doesn't fully write to the "buffer"? 01:50 < strixdio> i.e. incomplete text on the screen 01:50 < strixdio> it seems to only be happening on one specific VM 01:51 < texla> Looking for user friendly Linux o/s to install on a System 76 laptop 7.8 gb memory :Intel® Core™ i7-4810MQ CPU @ 2.80GHz × 8 :grapics Intel® Haswell Mobile x86/MMX/SSE2 :disc 45.7 GB 64 bit 01:52 < Psi-Jack> texla: * 01:52 < promet> texla, linux mint? 01:53 < mawk> configs are consistent, TERM variable too strixdio ? 01:53 < mawk> you're using a VM screen monitor or through ssh ? 01:53 < texla> promet, Linux mint 18.2 already installed on my desktop 01:54 < strixdio> mawk: I'm on xubuntu using tmux, ssh'd to a gentoo VM, nested with tmux 01:54 < mawk> good 01:54 < Psi-Jack> You can install pretty much any distro you want on a System 76. However, beware of a System76 fireball. 01:54 < mawk> being a VM shouldn't matter then 01:55 < strixdio> right 01:55 < strixdio> echo $TERM shows "screen" ? :/ 01:56 < Bonjourm8> anyone here using enlightenment DE? 01:57 < Sveta_> i used it a few weeks ago briefly 01:57 < Psi-Jack> Bonjourm8: Asking to ask is not worthwhile and just noisy. :) 01:57 < Sveta_> no smiling 01:57 < Bonjourm8> i'm asking because i need help with something, thank you! 01:57 < Sveta_> please ask 01:57 < Psi-Jack> Then... Ask that part. heh 01:57 < Sveta_> he means you can include your full question 01:57 < Sveta_> channel lines are a very valuable resource, best used sparingly 01:58 < Sveta_> what distro are you using it on and what is the issue? 01:58 < Bonjourm8> whenever i run private internet accesss, it doesn't show up anywhere. working fine in Ubuntu Xorg (ubuntu 17.10) and i know it's running because i saw the temporary window pop up showing im disconnected breifly 01:59 < Psi-Jack> No such thing as "private internet access" 01:59 < Bonjourm8> It's a program, a VPN 01:59 < Psi-Jack> VPNs bridge two networks together. 02:00 < Aph3x-WL> Psi-Jack: shhhh they own freenode now and they're listening, you don't want to disappear like the la... 02:00 < Bonjourm8> Yes I understand what VPN's are. I run PIA's program to connect to the VPN. The problem is that I can't see the program while it's running with this DE. 02:01 < michaelmrose> private internet access provides vpn service via openvpn you can configure vpn connections to the locations they provide in your normal network manager gui 02:01 < michaelmrose> private internet access provides vpn service via openvpn you can configure vpn connections to the locations they provide in your normal network manager gui 02:01 < michaelmrose> oops 02:01 < michaelmrose> also the logical support location would be their forums 02:02 < Psi-Jack> Or their support medium, whatever they provide, since you are in fact paying for vapor. :) 02:02 < Bonjourm8> that's another question, i suppose. where the heck is the network-manager GUI in Enlightenment DE? 02:04 * strixdio is tired and wants to go to bed. 02:10 < boblamont> Can anyone tell me why this .services file isn't working? I did systemctl enable and it made the symlink, but after rebooting, it didn't run the script (or, if it did, the script didn't work... but the script works if I manually execute it). 02:10 < boblamont> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/hmZjJ9KVR8/ 02:11 < Psi-Jack> boblamont: /home ? This isn't the kind of thing you would normally run as a root service like this. 02:11 < Psi-Jack> That's problem 1. 02:12 < boblamont> It won't run it unless I put it in /usr/local? 02:12 < Psi-Jack> Second, what's the script? 02:12 < Psi-Jack> you also don't have an After clause. 02:12 < Dagmar> Binaries which will be run as root should never live in /home dirs unless it's something you're running with sudo 02:13 < boblamont> The script has a single command, which is "butt -c /home/bob/buttmp3" 02:14 < Psi-Jack> Then... Why is it even in a script? 02:14 < blaztek> Can’t he just run it from cron at startup? 02:14 < Psi-Jack> Make your ExecStart the full path to whatever this "butt" thing is, with the arguments following it. 02:14 < Psi-Jack> blaztek: Stop. 02:14 < Psi-Jack> Just stop. 02:14 < Psi-Jack> cron is not a service manager. :p 02:15 < Psi-Jack> boblamont: Is butt a service, or something that runs to completion and is done? 02:15 < Dagmar> *snicker* 02:15 < blaztek> Psi-Jack: oh, right-that’s why I was asking. Thank you! 02:15 < Psi-Jack> systemd > crond anyway. :) 02:16 < boblamont> I've tried that, too (doing ExecStart=butt - c /home/bob/buttmp3) ... Butt is an icecast source client. I need to start 3 instances (which requires butt -c /path/to/config) 02:16 < Psi-Jack> And you want it to run as root? This seems bad. 02:17 < boblamont> It just needs to start at boot 02:18 < Psi-Jack> From what I'm reading about butt, it's not intended to be a server. 02:19 < boblamont> No, icecast is the server, but it requires a "source client" like Butt to feed it audio 02:20 < Psi-Jack> OKay. Well, using a script to run a command within the script, is wrong. Simply put. Stop that. Second, Why does this need to start at boot? 02:20 < Psi-Jack> Just trying to get a better understanding. :) 02:20 < o|0o^|> heh heh butt 02:22 < Psi-Jack> And.. more so, why do you need 3 running? heh 02:22 < boblamont> Together, butt and icecast take the soundcard input and create an online radio stream. In the even the computer shuts down (i.e. power outage, updates), in ideal conditions, it starts up automatically on boot. The multiple instances do different codecs. 02:23 < Psi-Jack> Ahh, I see. 02:24 < notmike> Psi-Jack omg y are u always talking!? 02:24 < notmike> That's why my kernel problem never got fixed. 02:24 < Psi-Jack> notmike: "why", not "y", "you" not "u" 02:26 < Psi-Jack> boblamont: I'm looking into this a little more in-depth, gimme a moment. Is there a user you'd run these as that's not root, preferably? ;) 02:26 < o|0o^|> yeah notmike, learn the queens proper english you animal 02:27 < boblamont> there's just bob and root on the machine 02:27 < notmike> You're right. I am an animal. }(0-o){ 02:27 < Psi-Jack> boblamont: Does icecast also start on the same system? 02:29 < boblamont> Yes, icecast is on the same system and it sets up an initd service when it installs, so it runs on boot 02:29 < Psi-Jack> boblamont: init.d or systemd service? 02:30 < Psilocyber> Hi friends, is there a way to map a device to a specific chassis drive slot? For example, I want to find out which JBOD and which slot /dev/sdna lives in. 02:31 < boblamont> icecast is init.d 02:31 < Psi-Jack> boblamont: Would be better if that wasn't an init.d, and also a systemd service unit, especially since I expect that butt requires to be able to communicate with icecast, yes? 02:31 < Psi-Jack> boblamont: systemctl list-units, /icecast, see if it's listed. 02:33 < Psi-Jack> boblamont: Also, what's the full path to the butt executable? 02:33 < ananke> Psilocyber: that's very specific to your hardware. lsscsi may have some info. however, without knowing the layout of your 'chassis' and mapping between slots and controllers is going to be impossible 02:34 < ananke> Psilocyber: what problem are you trying to solve? 02:34 < boblamont> ok, hang on I'll check both of those... butt connects to icecast via ip (in this case, localhost, but it would be a separate ip if they were on different machines) 02:34 < Psilocyber> ananke: thanks, crc errors coming from some disks, trying to map them to their slots 02:35 < ananke> Psilocyber: do you have activity indicators on your drive slots? 02:35 < mrrmx> Sveta_, I'm leaving for now (but I've copied about 500GB without any issues) thanks again 02:35 < Psilocyber> ananke: heh yeah, you thinking dd if=/dev/sdna of=/dev/null and go check which indicator is going crazy? 02:36 < ananke> Psilocyber: exactly that. crude, but very effective 02:36 < Psilocyber> ill give it a shot, thanks mate 02:36 < ananke> Psilocyber: of course look before you execute. so it will be easier to spot the difference 02:36 < Psi-Jack> boblamont: https://paste.linux-help.org/view/36eb9ec3 there's a systemd service unit for icecast, you may just need to update the arguments on ExecStart as appropriate. 02:38 < Psi-Jack> boblamont: https://paste.linux-help.org/view/21407eb8 is a service unit for butt, named butt@.service in /etc/systemd/system/, with this, you can enable/start butt@mp3, and it'll look for /etc/butt/mp3.conf because of what's after the @, so you can create multiple configuration instances easily. 02:38 < ironpillow> hi all, I have couple of lua daemons running on openwrt and they communicate via ubus (microBus, like DBus). I was wondering if there's an overhead, performance hit. process will be exchanging small json data but every 30 seconds or so. thanks! 02:38 < Psi-Jack> ironpillow: Running * == performance hit. 02:39 < ananke> ironpillow: performance hit in comparison to what? 02:39 < ananke> like Psi-Jack said, doing anything means there is going to be 'overhead' and 'performance hit' 02:41 < ironpillow> maybe using unix sockets (client/server model) 02:41 < Psi-Jack> It's like, trying to cook, while juggling, also while dancing, and singing, and playing chess, simaltaneously. 02:41 < dannylee> chess is c0000l 02:42 < ananke> ironpillow: so you'd be reinventing the wheel yourself, and you want us to determine whether your implementation would be somehow more or less efficient? 02:44 < ironpillow> woah, I could've handled till singing but you had to throw in playing chess :) 02:44 < Psi-Jack> heh 02:44 < Psi-Jack> You could've handled it, but with a performance hit. 02:44 < ironpillow> ha! 02:44 < Psi-Jack> Everything you add that does something, requires cycles, time. :) 02:44 < Psi-Jack> Even sleeping is cycles of time. :) 02:45 < Psi-Jack> Oh, stop it, dannylee. 02:45 < dannylee> ya nmann 02:45 < boblamont> Psi-Jack: thanks, I'll go try that. 02:46 < ironpillow> I guess what I am asking is, because this is an embedded system, i wanted to know which one takes less cycles. 02:46 < Psi-Jack> boblamont: If you have questions, feel free to ask. To enable the butt services, you would do so with systemctl enable butt@mp3, with the files I provided, it would look in /etc/butt/%i.conf for them. :) 02:46 < Psi-Jack> ironpillow: Well, with lua, you have both the instructions of the interpretter, lua, and the instructions of the lua script itself. :) 02:47 < ananke> ironpillow: that's impossible to determine without the specifics of implementation. dbus is going to have more overhead if your implementation of sockets is good. however. that's not guaranteed 02:49 < ironpillow> ananke: I was only asking about two types of implementations, maybe someone would be familiar with. I haven't implemented anything yet. I am not familiar with ubus/dbus, so I was trying to get some knowledge. 02:49 < ananke> ironpillow: sounds like a question for #lua 02:49 < ironpillow> Psi-Jack: yeah, makes sense 02:53 < ironpillow> ananke: oh, I was only thinking of implementing in lua because openwrt has a lot of code I can learn from. But mainly wanted to see if combining the functionality of two processes into one is better than separating them and communicating two processes via ubus. 02:53 < ananke> ironpillow: 'better' is very subjective 02:54 < ananke> encapsulation of reusable functionality is often a 'better' design. however, you seem to be concerned about 'performance hits' 02:56 < Psi-Jack> Lua itself is pretty lightweight. In fact it's often used in embedded devices and microcontrollers. 02:56 < ironpillow> ananke: go it. I'll write two separate programs and measure various resources. 02:57 < ananke> it's because it's so primitive in comparison to other languages :) 02:57 < ironpillow> it is but also it was easy for me to pick in a day. 02:58 < ironpillow> I know that doesn't really tell anything. But just wanted to throw out there :) 02:59 < ironpillow> Psi-Jack and ananke, thanks for taking the time. I'll get back if I find specific "performance" anomalies 03:00 < Psi-Jack> And I will continue to grind my brain through another episode of Legion. :) 03:00 < Psi-Jack> More swiss cheese holes and such. LOL 03:18 < what_if> I cant get VLC to play my h264 files in my new Debian install. What packages do I need? Have tried every combination I could find, nothing tho. 03:19 < Psi-Jack> what_if: mpv > vlc. 03:19 < nobrain> Psi-Jack: stop trolling 03:20 < Psi-Jack> Not trolling. 03:20 < dannylee> if your IQ is over 150...you might not really be trolling 03:28 < P_B> Hi. I'm having trouble changing owner of a mount point. It worked for one, but not another, and I don't understand why. Maybe I need to set an owner and permissions in the fstab, rather than the mount point? If so, why did it work for one but not the other? https://paste.linux.community/view/f1d17d48 03:32 < Psi-Jack> P_B: ntfs doesn't have posix permissions 03:33 < P_B> but the directory on linux does. why didn't its owner change? 03:33 < Psi-Jack> Because the mount point is ntfs 03:33 < P_B> I am not trying to change the permissions of the contents. It's empty. I just want that user to be able to read and write there 03:34 < P_B> but it did work on the other ntfs partition... 03:34 < Psi-Jack> man mount.ntfs-3g 03:34 < P_B> ok 03:34 < Psi-Jack> Wrong 03:34 < Psi-Jack> Ntfs doesn't have posix permissions 03:35 < Psi-Jack> Why ntfs anyway? Heh 03:38 < P_B> That's a silly question. You already know I'm dual booting. 03:38 < P_B> and while I trust the free ext2/3 fs driver to read from those partitions, I've never trusted it to write to them 03:39 < P_B> given a recently reported critical bug, I feel vindicated by that caution 03:39 < Psi-Jack> Ahhh. Windows dual boot. A shame. :) 03:39 < jim> there's a nonfree ext2 or 3 driver? 03:39 < P_B> Not really. I game. 03:40 < P_B> And I always have. I've been playing computer games since the 80s. It's where the interest in computing came from. I don't think that's shameful. 03:40 < P_B> heh yeah, jim. Has been for a long time. 03:41 < P_B> oh, "nonfree" 03:41 < P_B> sorry 03:41 < Psi-Jack> I play games from time to time too. In my nice comfy leather reclining couch in front of the big screen TV and 7.1 surround sound speaker system. :) 03:41 < P_B> I dislike most console games 03:41 < P_B> And I'm not building two general purpose computers 03:41 < P_B> I mean... I have two 03:42 < P_B> but I built the newer one because the older one became unreliable 03:42 < P_B> It would be sad to predominantly use my worse computer and only fire up the one I paid so much for only for games 03:44 < Psi-Jack> Funny. Many, if not most games you can get on the computer, are also available on the console. :) 03:44 < Psi-Jack> There's some exclusives to each, but not so much. 03:45 < superkuh> AAA games. 03:45 < superkuh> Not games. 03:46 < Aph3x-WL> "AAA games" are overrated 03:46 < Psi-Jack> "AAA" games? 03:47 < superkuh> Triple-A games. The ones that production companies like EA spend tens of millions making. The ones that consoles get. 03:47 < SporkWitch> get a PC and a PS4, you have nearly every game worth playing 03:47 < superkuh> Most games are not AAA games. 03:47 < jim> as far as I know, ext, ext2, ext3 were written by Linus, who put them under GPL2... (it may have been around that time he said he doesn't like those filesystems because some of the on-disk data structures were too large 03:49 < P_B> So I have to buy a ps4 now, so as not to be shamed by dual booting, as I have continuously for 10 years? 03:50 < Aph3x-WL> isn't that just as shameful since it's running a bsd? 03:50 < P_B> lol is it? 03:50 < P_B> that's hilarious 03:50 < P_B> The queen of england waving a hammer and sickle 03:51 < jim> P_B, when you said "free ext2/3", my question would be, is there an implied comparison to a nonfree version? and, when you said "I've never trusted it to write to them", I would first ask "do you mean you don't trust writing to ext2 or 3 partitions?" 03:52 < Psi-Jack> jim: He was referring to the ext2fs "drivers" for Windows. 03:52 < jim> ohh 03:52 < Psi-Jack> heh 03:53 < jim> I get it now, thanks 03:53 < P_B> jim, to clarify, at first, I misread the question, and thought you were ignorant of there being a windows extended filesystem driver at all. Then I realised you were scoffing at the idea of there being a non-free one. And on the second point, while it's had the capability for years, I've never been comfortable letting it, or the OS it runs under, as a collective unit, write to my linux partitions. 03:54 < P_B> For the way I use it, I've never had any need to. 03:54 < P_B> The other way, yes, often. 03:54 < jim> well I never had occasion to use that driver 03:54 < P_B> But I generally don't do much moving of stuff around from windows. linux is more convenient, powerful, reliable, etc. 03:55 < Aph3x-WL> so you want to write to a linux installation from windows but don't trust the windows drivers? 03:55 < P_B> If I'm doing lots, I often even boot into linux just to move stuff around even on the windows drives. locate and grep are so useful 03:55 < P_B> no, nothing like that, Aph3x-WL 03:56 < P_B> I just dont understand why changing owner of one mount point worked, but not the other. 03:56 < jim> Aph3x-WL, I think rather than do that, he would mount ntfs partitions under linux 03:56 < Psi-Jack> You cannot change ownership of mount points that are mounted as ntfs. 03:56 < P_B> And yet I did... 03:56 < P_B> For one, but not another 03:57 < Psi-Jack> No. 03:57 < Psi-Jack> Literally not possible. 03:57 < jim> we could go into the details I suppose :) 03:58 < dannylee> hi jimmy hoffa 04:00 < Bashing-om> Psi-Jack: P_B : http://askubuntu.com/questions/113733/how-do-i-correctly-mount-a-ntfs-partition-in-etc-fstab <- If you mount the ntfs partition with the permissions option, then chmod / chown will work . 04:01 < Psi-Jack> uid=/gid= != POSIX permissions. 04:02 < Psi-Jack> Ahh, "permissions" mount option. 04:02 < Psi-Jack> WIth some kind of user mapping file present. 04:03 < Bashing-om> Psi-Jack: Just a possible explanation " I just dont understand why changing owner of one mount point worked, but not the other." . 04:03 < Psi-Jack> The chown command changes the owner of the mount point (/mnt/excess) to the desired user. This step will have to be repeated each time the partition is mounted, in my experience (at least after every reboot) ... so, do the proper thing, set uid/gid/umask ... I always thought fmask and dmask were optional - like when you wanted different permissions for files and dirs. – thecarpy Apr 30 '15 at 12:28 04:03 < jml2> ntfs is for microsoft windows users 04:03 < Psi-Jack> That's important to note. 04:04 < P_B> thank you both for your help. I don't mean to sound ungrateful, Psi-Jack, but I am not making it up. As root, I made both mount points, I mounted them, I realised the owner should've been my general purpose account, I changed that owner with verbose output and success reported. The owner of one directory changed, the owner of the other did not. 04:04 < Psi-Jack> P_B: Take note of the above statement. :) 04:04 < Psi-Jack> permissions is a mount option enabled by default, and for some reason it worked on one, but not the other. However, this would have to be done every time you mount/boot. 04:05 < P_B> Ah! 04:05 < Psi-Jack> Unless you specifically set uid=,gid= 04:05 < P_B> I'd have to chown it every time I booted as I have it now? 04:05 < Psi-Jack> So, as I said it before, NTFS still doesn't support POSIX permissions. :) 04:05 < Psi-Jack> Yep. 04:05 < P_B> I didn't disbelieve you, just reporting what I've observed. 04:05 < Psi-Jack> I was correcting Bashing-om . ;) 04:07 < SporkWitch> ntfs permissions are dumb; that's what you get with a single-user operating system hacked to allow multiple 04:07 < P_B> No arguments here. I hate editing nt permissions. 04:07 < P_B> It's like they've abstracted it to the do the same thing, differently, for the sake of being different. 04:08 < Psi-Jack> They did it with the idea of full stack ACLs. Where in UNIX, that was stacked on afterwards, after the initial ugo bits anyway. 04:08 < SporkWitch> P_B: come on, what? it's not like MSFT to deliberately change things for the sole purpose of breaking compatibility with non-MSFT stuff... oh wait... 04:16 < P_B> that page you linked has a nice idea, Bashing-om. I never thunk to append my blkid output to the end of the fstab for reference 04:19 < P_B> All sorted now. Thanks, both 04:19 < apb1963> if I execute a bash script I wrote (the real script) it fails, if I copy the failing lines into a test script, it works. Not sure where to go with it from here. 04:19 < Bashing-om> P_B: Pleased to be of some small help . 04:20 < P_B> The only difference I can think of that explains why it (if temporarily) worked for one directory but not the other, is the working one had contents and subdirectories for it to act on 04:30 < jml2> apb1963, post your script on pastebin 04:31 < apb1963> jml2, the test script? Or the real script? 04:32 < luxio> If I put Ubuntu on empty space that's on a Windows drive, will it replace the Windows bootloader? 04:33 < luxio> because right now they're on separate drives, and I just select which drive to boot from in the BIOS when i boot up 04:33 < jml2> luxio, iirc you can choose not to install the boot loader 04:33 < jml2> luxio, in that case you should be able to install the boot loader to the other drive 04:33 < luxio> ok thanks 04:34 < jml2> (look for anything that says "grub", you might need to manually check the partition section) 04:34 < jml2> and you should of course back up your data 04:34 < jml2> you can be lazy and just unplug the drive with windows on it :) 04:34 < jml2> lol 04:35 < Johnjay> when exactly did people start to abandon the standard ./configure && make && make install procedure on linux? 04:35 < ananke> Johnjay: how is that a 'standard'? 04:35 < luxio> Johnjay: what do you mean? 04:35 < jml2> Johnjay, what do you mean by "people" ? 04:35 < ananke> and what does it have to do with linux? 04:35 < Johnjay> i've tried compiling a few big projects so far including mpv and none of them compile cleanly after a git pull 04:35 < luxio> what's the alternative? 04:35 < Johnjay> luxio: being able to compile your code? 04:35 < luxio> Johnjay: ...did you install the dependencies? 04:35 < luxio> Johnjay: `make` does compile 04:35 < Johnjay> the dependency thing is a whole separate issue 04:36 < Johnjay> as nightmarish as it is yes 04:36 < ananke> Johnjay: so what does your 'failed' experience have to do with your question? 04:36 < Johnjay> ananke: can you clarify? 04:36 < Johnjay> i thought running ./configure followed by make was standard on linux 04:36 < ananke> Johnjay: ironically, that's what we've been asking you since you got here 04:36 < ananke> Johnjay: first, it's not a 'standard'. and it has little to do with _linux_ 04:37 < Johnjay> you're telling me autoconf and automake have little to do with linux? 04:37 < o|0o^|> it's pretty standard across the gnu programs 04:37 < ananke> second, you haven't explained how that question relates to your 'none of them compile cleanly after a git pull' complaint 04:37 < Johnjay> i mean, do we have to argue about whether gnu/linux is a legit term or not? 04:37 < ananke> Johnjay: indeed. they're not linux specific 04:37 < Johnjay> i mean, who cares 04:37 < Johnjay> the point is most software on linux is compiled with autoconf toolchains 04:38 < ananke> Johnjay: you seem to care. you came here with those bogus questions 04:38 < ananke> and what does autoconf have to do with your complaint about 'none of them compile cleanly after a git pull' 04:39 < Johnjay> well gcc failed due to out of memory 04:39 < Johnjay> the others failed due to wrong configure flags or missing ones 04:39 < ananke> Johnjay: and exactly how would that be related to autoconf? 04:39 < Johnjay> i mean shouldn't a well-written configure script tell you the things you have to do to resolve the dependency problems? 04:39 < jml2> when did people start to abadon the standard ./configure .. lol 04:39 < o|0o^|> basically what you need to know is all the cool people use make/make install, including a DESTDIR variable for install path, maybe a configure script, and only hipsters use other tools 04:39 < ananke> Johnjay: autoconf wouldn't solve the problem of gcc running out of memory 04:39 < luxio> Johnjay: that's called a package manager 04:40 < jml2> apb1963, so your script works? 04:40 < Johnjay> luxio: i mean specifically in trying to compile a git snapshot 04:40 < Johnjay> or even just the stable version 04:40 < jml2> apb1963, gunna paste it? the longer script one would be better 04:40 < Abbott> I want to send a post request to a website using curl where the http for a page is simply: 04:41 < Abbott>
04:41 < apb1963> jml2, the test script works. I'm tidying up the real one before I paste it. 04:41 < Johnjay> o|0o^|: i guess i was naive to expect the generic compile procedure to often work out of the box 04:41 < ananke> Johnjay: again, you somehow expect magic answer to a vague set of complaints 04:41 < Abbott> an example for sending a post request in curl would be curl --data "param1=value1¶m2=value2" http://hostname/resource, but for data what would the key of the data be? 04:41 < Johnjay> mpv i couldn't even figure out what was the matter, it said dependencies were missing, but when I installed them it said they were still missing 04:42 < Johnjay> ananke: have you ever compiled a program before? 04:42 < ananke> Johnjay: funny you should ask. gee, yes. I've been compiling programs for users for 20+ years now 04:43 < luxio> lol 04:43 < ananke> Johnjay: so if you want to rant, we have twitter for that. otherwise, if you have problems that need to be solved, you need to provide actual detailed problem description 04:44 < Johnjay> ananke: Well you could have fooled me. 04:46 < ananke> Johnjay: you haven't had any opportunity to assess what I know or what I do. you've made some vague complaints, but never showed an actual error or full description of a problem. some of your complaints are simply bogus, such as blaming autotools on gcc running out of memory 04:46 < ananke> so again, do you have a problem you want to solve, or do you want to rant? 04:46 < jml2> ananke, twitter is for rant. oh yep definitely. trump XD 04:47 < Johnjay> ananke: Here's a brief tutorial on how to write a configure.ac for autoconf if you need it: https://www.gnu.org/software/autoconf/manual/autoconf-2.61/html_node/Making-configure-Scripts.html 04:47 < Johnjay> :p 04:48 < ananke> Johnjay: and? 04:49 < jml2> and he's confused lol 04:50 < luxio> Johnjay: acting condescending isn't exactly the best way to get help 04:50 * jml2 reads on twitter "Our relationship with Russia is worse now than it has ever been, and that includes the Cold War. " XD 04:51 < jml2> Johnjay should be using twitter XD 04:51 < jml2> tehehe 04:53 < ShadeS> this sounds not entirely correct: 'We will give the ownership of our opencart files to the apache user by running the following command:' "sudo chown www-data:www-data * -R" did they mean apache:apache instead? 04:54 < ananke> ShadeS: that depends on a distro 04:54 < Dan39> ShadeS: depends on the distro, debian uses www-data 04:54 < ShadeS> ubuntu 04:55 < ShadeS> www-data seems kinda incorrect idk why debian would want to standardize that for their flavor 04:55 < Dan39> redhat stuff uses apache 04:55 < ShadeS> it seems to be the same for ubuntu ?? 04:55 < ananke> wouldn't be the first time debian did something along the lines of 'we're different' 04:55 < ShadeS> haha 04:55 < nobrain> stop blaspheming faggots 04:56 < ananke> nobrain: you may want to watch your language 04:56 < Dan39> but funny thing, iirc debian uses /etc/apache2 while redhat /etc/httpd/ 04:56 < Dan39> ananke: you may not want to feed the trolls 04:56 < ShadeS> I am not on the deebs right now 04:56 < ananke> Dan39: that was a fair warning 04:56 < ShadeS> that host i was using became EOL dependency hell, so I was given a fresh ubuntu on some NUC to do 04:57 < nobrain> anyway, nobody uses apache nowadays 04:57 < ShadeS> why? 04:57 < Psi-Jack> Anything that suggests to chown ALL webapplication files to the webserver user is WRONG, and should be tortured. 04:57 < ShadeS> lamp is easy and familiar to me 04:57 < Psi-Jack> nobrain: Wrong. 04:57 < ShadeS> did everyone go to nginx? 04:57 < Psi-Jack> ShadeS: No. 04:57 < ShadeS> I had hellllllllla problems getting nginx to do anything 04:57 < nobrain> yes, LEMP is what you want 04:57 < Psi-Jack> ShadeS: That's just inexperience. :) 04:57 < Psi-Jack> But, regardless. 04:58 < ShadeS> Psi-Jack: so step 3 here is incorrect? https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-install-opencart-on-an-ubuntu-12-04-vps 04:58 < boblamont> Psi-Jack: I must be doing something wrong. It's still not starting butt. 04:59 < Psi-Jack> boblamont: How did you try to start it? 04:59 < Psi-Jack> ShadeS: Yes, quite wrong. 04:59 < ShadeS> Psi-Jack: who would you suggest own the directory then? 04:59 < ananke> ShadeS: the chown step? it's wrong on many levels. for starters, it doesn't even specify what directory it should be executed in 05:00 < boblamont> After doing all the systemctl stuff (and before that, making sure permissions were right), I'd reboot to see if it started 05:00 < ShadeS> ananke: it says the open car tfiles 05:00 < Psi-Jack> ShadeS: When you chown, for example PHP files to be owned by the webserver, you expose potentially insecure code from being remotely vulnerable, and by that, allowing vulnerable code to inject remote code injection into the code itself, because, guess why? It's got permission to do so. 05:00 < ShadeS> which you just copied (via the tutorial) to /var/www/ 05:00 < ananke> ShadeS: which is the worst idea ever 05:00 < ShadeS> except there is shared stuff on thsi box so I hvee it in var/www/html/projectname/fileshere 05:00 < Psi-Jack> ShadeS: Root, and only the bare minimums be owned by the webserver user, like cache directories, and such that needs to be written to explicitely and only. 05:01 < ananke> ShadeS: web server shouldn't have blanket write permissions to its document root. 05:01 < Psi-Jack> Ahh, that's why. This isn't a DigitalOcean professional documenter, but a community documenter. 05:01 < ShadeS> i didn't set up the box and var is on a separate partition 05:01 < ShadeS> so this is a BS guide that's going to maybe work but work insecurley? 05:01 < ananke> that's irrelevant 05:01 < Psi-Jack> Hence, the -R being at the end instead of the beginning. :) 05:02 < ShadeS> yeah that looked weird 05:02 < Psi-Jack> It is wierd, and wrong. 05:02 < ananke> ShadeS: yes, it's goes against one of the most basic standard operating practices with regards to security 05:02 < ShadeS> idk about this freedom of speech on web tutorials, I'm more down with 40 lashes for incorrect git commits ;) 05:02 < Psi-Jack> Because * translates into all the files in the CWD, and then ... ends with -R after 4+ files? No. Wrong. :) 05:02 < Dan39> -R at the end... ugh guy at work does that all the time, annoys the hell out of me 05:03 < ShadeS> translates all the files in the current working directory to what? 05:03 < Psi-Jack> ShadeS: echo * 05:03 < Psi-Jack> Literally, type that into a bash shell, and you'll see. :) 05:03 < ShadeS> that's just ls minus the colors 05:03 < Psi-Jack> * gets translated to the files in space separated format just like you see there. :) 05:04 < Psi-Jack> Before executing the actual command. 05:04 < ananke> Psi-Jack: we had a fun example of that just yesterday. one of the users who insisted on having sudo access to their dev server ran a nice chown -R on multiple files in a dir. one of those 'files' was '..' 05:04 < Psi-Jack> You didn't echo *, you echo'd the result of * itself. 05:04 < Psi-Jack> ananke: heh . 05:04 < ShadeS> Psi-Jack: what's replacing apache? 05:04 < ShadeS> i really don't like mean that much 05:04 < Psi-Jack> ShadeS: Nothing. 05:05 < ShadeS> so if nobody is using apache anymore what is in place of apache? 05:05 < ananke> entire /home, including their broken /home/group was chowned to someuser:somegroup 05:05 < ShadeS> people aren't just not making werb pages anymore 05:05 < Psi-Jack> There's alternatives to Apache, as there's been for eons, but nothing's /replacing/ it. :) 05:05 < ShadeS> there's more full stack jerbs than ever before 05:05 < Psi-Jack> Apache HTTPD, to be more specific. 05:05 < Psi-Jack> Apache, is a group, technically. 05:05 < ShadeS> oh 05:06 < jml2> apache license, apache foundation 05:06 < ShadeS> so it's really just the artist formely known as the prnce 05:06 < ShadeS> and it's some symbol now 05:06 < Psi-Jack> No. 05:06 < ShadeS> i'm confused then 05:06 < Psi-Jack> Apache's always been a group, or foundation. 05:06 < Psi-Jack> httpd is just one of many products they've produced. 05:06 < ShadeS> i see apache2/ in /etc/ but it's not called apache anymore? 05:06 < Dan39> apache has many other projects besides the httpd 05:06 < ShadeS> ah 05:06 < ShadeS> i thought httpd and apache2 was like, interchangeable 05:07 < Psi-Jack> Apache HTTPD, ApacheDS, Apache Directory Studio, Apache Tomcat, etc. 05:07 < jml2> ShadeS, could be that you added a 2 :p 05:07 < jml2> ShadeS, distros such as rh-based use "httpd" in the package name instead of apache2 05:07 < ShadeS> i'm a bit slower today I was hit && run by a car yesterday on a country road where the speed limit was 50mph and I was on my bicycle 05:07 < Psi-Jack> Anyway,. 05:07 < ShadeS> third time in two years now 05:07 < Dan39> wtf lol 05:08 < ShadeS> yeah, I was so close to being turned into a rainbow streak, totally bent my headphone jack cable into a < and now only gives me audio on one channel >8 | 05:08 < Psi-Jack> ShadeS: Understanding permissions and how they work is critically important for understanding how to run a reasonably at least more secure webserver. Lesson 1: Never make the web application's code itself, owned by the webserver. Limit that to only where it is needed, and nothing more. 05:08 < ShadeS> police was giving me an atittude telling me that having a headlamp on my head isn't compliant with the law that requires it to be on your bicycle fixed to it 05:09 < jml2> ShadeS, if you want to compare there is "nginx" 05:09 < ShadeS> I tried nginx before and I had nothing but struggles and no actual working product after hours of fking around 05:09 < Psi-Jack> Apache HTTPD, NginX, Cherokee, Caddy, LightHTTPD, etc. 05:09 < Psi-Jack> ShadeS: We do have a language policy here. Please mind the language. 05:09 < ShadeS> Psi-Jack: there are several tutorials that say otherwise so I was wondering what the deal about that was 05:09 < Dan39> lightHTTPD, what happened to lighttpd? 05:09 < Psi-Jack> ShadeS: Tutorials on what? 05:10 < Psi-Jack> Dan39: It's Lighttpd. :) 05:10 < ShadeS> webservers apache lamp etc 05:10 < Psi-Jack> ShadeS: Simple answer: Ignorance, negligence. 05:10 < ShadeS> mostly a lot of them regarding opencart though so idk if it's specific to newbs trying to run up an insecure e-store 05:10 < Psi-Jack> ShadeS: Simple fact: Security is hard. That's pretty straight forward. 05:11 < ShadeS> seems more like it's impossible 05:11 < Psi-Jack> No, not impossible, Just hard. :) 05:11 < ShadeS> as a blue teamer, you just need to slip up once, and BAZOOM ur server is now ransomwared 05:11 < Psi-Jack> "your" not "ur" we also have a no-shtspk policy here. 05:12 < ShadeS> I'm sorry the country I was born in doesn't speak english 05:12 < o|0o^|> filthy smser! 05:12 < Psi-Jack> So you learned first how to spell it correctly. 05:12 < ShadeS> the younger crowd is insistent on changing language to something more modern filled with emoji hiroglyphs 05:13 < P_B> my missues taunted me that soon you'll be allowed to have a poop emoji in your numberplate. 05:13 < ShadeS> I don't want to sound old and unhip, like that "fellow kids" skateboarder 05:13 < P_B> I didn't talk to her for 10 minutes. 05:13 < ShadeS> even though I skateboard and i'm in my 30s 05:13 < o|0o^|> you probably have a slingshot in your back pocket too 05:13 < ShadeS> no, it's a 9mill glock 05:14 < ShadeS> did you guys know that utah's CCW is recognized in 30 out of 50 of the states? Adam Smith, No Jokes 05:14 < Psi-Jack> Far from the subject matter of Linux. :) 05:14 < Dan39> entertaining in here tonight 05:14 < ShadeS> yeah i'm getting off topic 05:14 < ShadeS> i need to get this up and running in the next 45 minutes 05:14 < ShadeS> before they shut down this starbucks 05:15 < ShadeS> I'm on a farm and we're not on the grid yet 05:15 < ShadeS> until the barn passes the final inspection 05:15 < Dan39> what animals are going to be there? 05:16 < ShadeS> uh, I see plenty of birds, rabbits, shrews, across the street is an ass, chickens for 20$s a head, which my friend said she'll show me how to turn into dinner when she comes up here next 05:16 < ShadeS> it's going to be an algaee farm 05:16 < Dan39> like, kelp? 05:16 < ShadeS> spirilina 05:16 < ShadeS> they sell pills and dehydrated versions of it in bourgious high end grocery stores like sprouts and whole foods 05:17 < Dan39> Benefits include fighting anemia, good for blood and heart & more! 05:17 < ShadeS> my friend and his nephnew made it their business, i'm living on the farm rent free in exchange for slave labor 05:17 < ShadeS> because i'm hella depressed and can't find work 05:17 < Dan39> how often do you chmod 777? 05:17 < Psi-Jack> Never. 05:17 < Dan39> sshhh 05:17 < Dan39> i was asking ShadeS 05:18 < ShadeS> uh, the tutorial said to 0755 or 0777, I went with the former 05:18 < ShadeS> because 777 is just only good in vegas 05:18 < Dan39> haha 05:18 < o|0o^|> chmod 01777 twice every boot 05:18 < Psi-Jack> o|0o^|: Too many bits. 05:18 < o|0o^|> ? 05:19 < Psi-Jack> o|0o^|: Too many bits. 05:19 < o|0o^|> ?? 05:19 < Dan39> on that note, goodnight. good luck. have fun, dont piss off the ass, and report back when you learn how to turn chickens into dinner 05:19 < Mayzie> How can I force users to chroot to their home directory using SFTP? I've tried ChrootDirectory and using internal-sftp, but it seems that requires every directory in the path to be owned by root which is dumb and I don't want to do. Is there any other way? 05:19 < ShadeS> it stares at me everytime I bicycle back to the farm 05:19 < Abbott> how can I use curl to POST form data from a pipe that may contain @ or it makes me feel especially out of place being the only trans person in deep rural republican territory 05:20 < Dan39> ummm... then move? 05:20 < ShadeS> I wear my pro firearms t-shirts and "been there done that" iraq t-shirts 05:20 < Mayzie> The directory is a subdirectory underneath their home directory. 05:20 < ShadeS> i can't really I'm unemployed and I can't afford rent and i'm living here for free 05:20 < ShadeS> my last car was stolen for the 4th and final time 05:21 < ShadeS> I really have the worst luck 05:21 < ayecee> cool story 05:31 < apb1963> if I execute a bash script I wrote (the real script) it fails, if I copy the failing lines into a test script, it works. Not sure where to go with it from here. 05:33 < Psi-Jack> apb1963: https://paste.linux-help.org/ and show and tell. 05:33 < apb1963> Psi-Jack, https://pastebin.com/gBqt10mD 05:33 < Psi-Jack> Not pastebin.com. 05:35 < apb1963> Psi-Jack, https://paste.linux-help.org/view/f9cf7dc8 05:35 < jkemppainen> heh, I think one of these days, with the pastebin.com links and the abbreviations, Psi-Jack will segfault 05:35 < apb1963> Psi-Jack, ugh... scratch that. wrong paste 05:36 < Psi-Jack> What IS that? That's not a bash script. That looks more like a log file. 05:36 < Psi-Jack> heh 05:37 < apb1963> Psi-Jack, https://paste.linux-help.org/view/04686f53 05:39 < Psi-Jack> Ugh. Feed that through shellcheck.net. It's burning my eyes. :) for categoryID in ${categories}; do -> for categoryID in "${categories}"; do 05:41 < jkemppainen> segfault imminent... 05:42 < francute> I'm on archlinux, using gnome 3 environment. I want to change my default terminal but can't do it. Almost all people says "gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.default-applications.terminal exec /usr/bin/tilix" should work, but doesn't work 05:43 < Psi-Jack> apb1963: Good use of 66 and 89 though! 05:43 < francute> I also tried with just "tilix" instead of full route. Also, i tried from dconf, but it says it's obsolete and i should use "GIO"? 05:43 < Psi-Jack> except, 71? Another read 05:44 < Psi-Jack> No need to do that, when you're already reading from a loop already provided. LOL 05:44 < francute> Any ideas where can i look? 05:50 < Psi-Jack> NEWSITE_PATH="${HOMEPATH} -- Variables with ALL_CAPS should not be used, nor set unless you really know what you're doing. They're intended for internal use things. Example, MAIL, HOME, USER, etc. 05:51 < wallbroken> hi 05:51 < francute> hi 05:51 < wallbroken> just an off-topic question 05:51 < Psi-Jack> Then stop. 05:51 < wallbroken> but i think it's the closer channel where i can do it 05:51 < Psi-Jack> If it's not regarding Linux at all, then it's likely not. 05:51 < ayecee> making it worse with the intro 05:51 < wallbroken> "is possible to program in a Commodore 64" ? 05:51 < apb1963> Psi-Jack, that's a nice website. I think I'll work on fixing those issues. In fact, just the extra double quotes you mentioned changes the output and gives me something new to work through. Thank you! No doubt I'll be back. 05:52 < apb1963> wallbroken, yes 05:52 < ayecee> yes. 05:52 < ayecee> that was easy. 05:52 < wallbroken> i have it turn it on in front of me, just a blue screen image 05:52 < Psi-Jack> apb1963: Also replace all ['s with [['s, use proper bash. :) 05:52 < wallbroken> to program i mean something like C 05:53 < apb1963> wallbroken, dunno... see if there's a c compiler for it. Generally it's done in BASIC. 05:53 < wallbroken> ok, then i'll turn it off again and put it into garage again 05:54 < apb1963> wallbroken, I gave mine away years ago. 05:54 < Psi-Jack> You can do BASIC and ASM (with certain cartridges). 05:54 < wallbroken> i have not cardiges, i have just the keyboard and the screen 05:55 < wallbroken> i used it when i was child to play games 05:55 < ayecee> get cartriges 05:55 < apb1963> yeah I don't remember having any cartridges. 05:55 < Psi-Jack> I was big on the C64 back in the day. :) 05:56 < wallbroken> Psi-Jack, from the blue scree is not possible to do anything? 05:56 < Psi-Jack> 4-way cartidge add-on, 300bps modem, tape drive, dual floppy drives, SX64 portable and original model. :) 05:56 < apb1963> I took it as partial payment from a friend that owed me money. 05:56 < Psi-Jack> wallbroken: You can start coding basic right there. 05:56 < ayecee> whew, big spender! 05:56 < wallbroken> Psi-Jack, you said about cardiges 05:56 < apb1963> I think mine had a cassette player attached... but I could be wrong. 05:56 < Psi-Jack> wallbroken: You don't have any,. 05:56 < wallbroken> then? 05:57 < Psi-Jack> Then? It's not Linux. So, move along. :) 05:57 < apb1963> wallbroken, Might have better luck in ##hardware 05:57 < ayecee> probably not 05:58 < apb1963> those guys know stuff 05:58 < ayecee> seems pretty low effort question 05:59 < ayecee> like stoner who just had a wouldn't it be cool moment 06:00 < jim> wouldn';t it be cool if fire weren't so hot... 06:01 < ShadeS> *ty* guys ttyl 06:01 < Psi-Jack> "thank you" not "ty" 06:01 < ayecee> just gonna let ttyl slide, eh 06:01 < Psi-Jack> Well, yes. 06:01 < P_B> Those ones were on IRC before anyone was sending SMS to each other. 06:02 < Psi-Jack> ttyl is like lol, roflmao, brb, afk, etc. 06:02 < jim> true dat.,.. plezse expand ttyl and ty 06:02 < Psi-Jack> P_B: Heck, those were on BBS's before IRC even existed. 06:02 < P_B> Those are *our* words. 06:02 < P_B> You all can't use them *glares at teenagers* 06:02 < nobrain> Psi-Jack: ty 4 grammar lessons idk what would we do without u m8 06:02 < jim> you have words?! 06:02 < ayecee> ikr 06:02 < Psi-Jack> nobrain: Still don't know what gammar actually is. 06:03 < jim> pleawe also expand ikr :) 06:03 < ayecee> ok np 06:03 < jim> bad boi bad boi whatcha gonna do... 06:04 < apb1963> For the record, BBS' pre-date IRC so... most of those acronyms were in use before some of you starting using the Internet. 06:04 < apb1963> s/starting/started/ 06:04 < ayecee> thanks for the history lesson gramps 06:05 < francute> Where the heck is coded to always start gnome-terminal?? e.e 06:05 < jim> I thought it was illegal to predate 06:05 < ayecee> was that when you had to push bits up hill both ways through snow 06:05 < Psi-Jack> francute: You're not making sense. 06:05 < apb1963> no, but there was no web. 06:06 < Psi-Jack> apb1963: Funny thing is. I still run a BBS. :) 06:06 < apb1963> cool 06:06 < ayecee> that is hilarious 06:06 < apb1963> which software? 06:06 < jim> we just flattened the snow and slid across 06:06 < Psi-Jack> And a FidoNet Network coordinator. 06:06 < apb1963> haha i remember fidonet 06:06 < Psi-Jack> apb1963: Synchronet, Linux. :) 06:06 < apb1963> hmmm.. never heard of that one 06:06 < Psi-Jack> Been around a long time. :) 06:07 < Psi-Jack> Honestly surprised it's still being developed, even today. 06:07 < nobrain> you guys are older than my freaking grandpa 06:07 < francute> psi-jack: I'm on arch linux (antergos specifically) and can't change the default terminal. 06:07 < Psi-Jack> francute: IN what? 06:07 < francute> I'm using gnome 06:07 < francute> gnome-terminal for Tilix 06:08 < [R]> i used to complain how chatty windows machines were on a network 06:08 < Psi-Jack> And where are you trying to start this terminal from? 06:08 < jim> don't you use gnome terminal? 06:08 < [R]> i think SSDP has surpassed my hatred for windows networking protcools 06:08 < francute> From file manager 06:08 < apb1963> nobrain, when girls get pregnant at 13, it's not hard to be a grandpa at 30 06:08 < jkemppainen> francute: just a correction; Antergos is *not* Arch Linux; the former is based on the latter, but they're not the same distro 06:09 < revel> [R]: "It was formally described in an IETF Internet draft by Microsoft and Hewlett-Packard in 1999" 06:09 < jkemppainen> that's a very relevant thing to take into account when seeking support 06:09 < [R]> revel: ? 06:09 < revel> [R]: From SSDP's Wiki page. 06:09 < [R]> revel: i know what SSDP is... 06:09 < Psi-Jack> francute: You could always uninstall gnome-terminal. 06:09 < francute> yes, jkemppainen, sorry that mistake 06:09 < Psi-Jack> But, it's being defaulted because of .desktop files, the "Gnome" way. 06:09 < revel> [R]: Oh, I guess I misunderstood what you said and thought you meant it wasn't a Microsoft thing. 06:10 < Psi-Jack> Actually. 06:10 < Psi-Jack> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/glib/blob/master/gio/gdesktopappinfo.c#n1106 06:10 < Psi-Jack> It seems to be worse. Hard coded list. 06:10 < [R]> NMB/SMB is atrocious when you're on a netwok with windows boxes, because of how broadcasty they are 06:10 < [R]> but SSDP is much worse 06:10 < francute> But, if i uninstall gnome-terminal, i'm going to lose the "open terminal here" option? 06:11 < apb1963> francute, be sure you backup before you do everything because you will end up being sorry and will probably need to reinstall the OS. 06:11 < Psi-Jack> francute: No. but it will then default to nxterm, then color-xterm, then rxvt, then dtterm 06:11 < Psi-Jack> And finally xterm. 06:12 < Psi-Jack> Heh 06:12 < Psi-Jack> Bad Gnome! Bad gnome! Hard coding that crap. 06:12 < francute> g_find_program_in_path("gnome-terminal") .... Nasty nasty 06:12 * apb1963 takes out his Gnome whacker and starts whacking Gnomes. 06:13 < Psi-Jack> francute: So, there you have it. One bad aspect of Gnome. :) Switch to XFCE. 06:13 < apb1963> I like most things about KDE 06:14 < Psi-Jack> I used KDE since pre 1.0.0. I finally stopped using it just in the past 2 months. 06:14 < francute> Yes, i didn't know which environment to use, and took Gnome because "it was more customizable and compatible with apps" :I 06:14 < [R]> Psi-Jack: i miss kde 1.2 06:14 < o|0o^|> does GNOME come with a font editor? 06:14 < Psi-Jack> I miss KDE 3. The last actually good version. 06:14 < Psi-Jack> o|0o^|: no 06:14 < [R]> i miss pulling kde 2 from cvs 06:14 < [R]> on dialup 06:15 < Psi-Jack> heh 06:15 < ayecee> as one misses an ingrown toenail 06:15 < diogenese> took me a week to download the exploding whale 06:15 < Psi-Jack> [R]: What about cvsup, on FreeBSD? LOL 06:15 < junka> there is gnome font viewer or something 06:15 < [R]> i think the bsds still use cvs? 06:15 < alexey-nemovff> francute: if you're in Antergos.. then you're not using Arch Linux.. 06:15 < Psi-Jack> [R]: I think so. 06:16 < junka> if you'r in Mint.. then you're not using Ubuntu.. 06:17 < apb1963> if you're in ubuntu then you're not using Debian 06:17 < junka> hat trick 06:17 < nobrain> KDE was always bad, plasma just turned it unusable 06:18 < nobrain> or whatever you spell it 06:18 < [R]> nobrain: kde 1.2 was the bomb diggity 06:18 < [R]> you take that back 06:19 < nobrain> well I'm not that old 06:19 < [R]> kde 1.2 was like 1999 06:19 < quint> Is it possible to write non-fs data to an ISO image for writing to a disk? 06:19 < [R]> not that long ago... 06:20 < [R]> quint: that makes no sense? 06:20 < [R]> ISO images are images of an ISO filesystem... 06:20 < quint> [R]: well rather, directly writing non-fs data to a disc. can that be done? 06:20 < [R]> quint: you can write wahtever you want 06:20 < [R]> bits are bits 06:21 < apb1963> unless you have a byte 06:21 < quint> [R]: what tool can I use to achieve this? Let's say I have a big file with no headers 06:21 < apb1963> quint, k3b 06:21 < ayecee> i like big files and i can not lie 06:21 < apb1963> lol 06:22 < apb1963> quint, dd also works 06:22 < [R]> yuo an't dd to a cd 06:22 < apb1963> why not? 06:22 < Psi-Jack> dd doesn't engage the burning laser. 06:22 < [R]> lasers... ENGAGE 06:24 < junka> ayecee; be careful of EXE files 06:24 < apb1963> hmmmm... never thought about it... but I'd expect the cd driver to take care of it... dd just writes to it like any other device. But... if yo've tried... well.. what can I say? 06:28 < boblamont> Ok, I put aside butt for a moment and moved on to the next thing, and again got a script that works how I expect it to, but which I can't get to work as a service... the service is here https://paste.linux.community/view/163b2e7f the script is here https://paste.linux.community/view/8cccf1ff the example and directions I used are from https://askubuntu.com/questions/919054/how-do-i-run-a-single-command-at-startup-using-systemd 06:28 < alexey-nemovff> there's this cdrecord command to burn files into CD from terminal 06:31 < francute> Psi-Jack: How did you find that file so fast? (The one with the hardcoded terminal) 06:33 < Psi-Jack> francute: Google. 06:34 < francute> Well, i think i'm not a very good searcher then x.x 06:34 < Psi-Jack> That, and google doesn't know you well enough. :) 06:39 < jim> francute, you learn by trying and failing... in fact, the more you fail, the more you learn..,. and the faster you fail, the faster you learn 06:39 < francute> Stupid gnome, can't use space key as part of a shortcut 06:39 < klock> oh, is this the bullshit hardcoded terminal right-click context in KDE 06:40 < klock> or are they all doing this for some asinine reason 06:40 < Psi-Jack> klock: Gnome. KDE's can be configured. 06:40 < francute> jim: Well, i fail a lot, i fail fast too, but i'm not sure if i'm learning at that rate too 06:40 < klock> by writing your own .desktop file basically 06:40 < Psi-Jack> No 06:41 < jim> Psi-Jack, how did you get i3 to be the wm in xfce? I know you told me a few days ago, wasn't ready to try it yet 06:41 < boblamont> at this rate, I should be the most knowledgeable person in the world about getting stuff to run at startup if failing=learning 06:41 < jim> I am now 06:41 < Psi-Jack> Failing and learning, isn't necessarily accurate for everyone. Me, I failed very seldomly, but learned more hands on directly. 06:43 < jim> successes can teach as well... and, if there are failures involved in the process of reaching a larger success, then you went through some problems that may have been typical 06:43 < Psi-Jack> jim: In XFCE, Settings, Session and Startup, set xfwm and xfdesktop to be "never", and save it. In Application AutoStart, add i3wm. In Keyboard settings, delete all of them, and prepare to re-do them as desired. ;) 06:43 < Psi-Jack> For xfce4-panel, you'll want i3-workspaces-plugin if you want the i3 workspaces integrated into the panel. 06:44 < jim> lemme get the install started 06:46 < Psi-Jack> The hard part is really configuring i3 itself. 06:47 < Sveta_> klock, you dislike right click to open a context menu? 06:47 < klock> no 06:48 < klock> kde just doesn't respect the preferred applications setting 06:48 < klock> have to change the terminal that opens via editing the .desktop file 06:48 < Psi-Jack> It does. 06:48 < klock> kde 16.04 does not 06:48 < Psi-Jack> No such version of KDE. 06:48 < klock> er 06:48 < klock> kubuntu 06:48 < klock> my bad 06:48 < Psi-Jack> KDE does. :) 06:48 < klock> well, something's fucky :P 06:49 < klock> it's mostly a nonissue 06:49 < Psi-Jack> Kubuntu.... They hacked it up badly and broke a lot of things, and is one of the worst kde installations of ll. 06:49 < jim> please watch language while you're here 06:49 < klock> my bad 06:49 < apb1963> Psi-Jack, I made that double quote change you suggested and then ran it through that website. For that line: "Since you double quoted this, it will not word split, and the loop will only run once." 06:50 < apb1963> Psi-Jack, which isn't what I want. So, the original was correct. 06:50 < jim> Psi-Jack, can you get xfce4 to switch wms on the fly? 06:50 < Psi-Jack> jim: Only with window-managers that support that, i3 doesn't. 06:50 < [R]> not all wms have a --replace flag? 06:50 < Psi-Jack> ^ 06:50 < Psi-Jack> i3 does not. :) 06:51 < [R]> well that's lame 06:52 < Psi-Jack> Eh.. It kinda is, but it's a very simple, window-manager. 06:52 < Psi-Jack> Keeps itself completely independant of other libraries but their own. 06:53 < Psi-Jack> Follows the unix-way of things, to some degree, by allowing things to be stream-loaded into it, hence the i3bar. 06:53 < jim> brb... 06:57 < jim> how do you get i3 to exit? 06:58 < Roserin> something with e 06:58 < Psi-Jack> Ctrl+Alt+e 06:58 < Roserin> mod shift e maybe?? 06:58 < Psi-Jack> Alt+Enter to start a terminal 06:59 < jim> your modifier is alt? 07:03 < jimm> I used i3-msg exit 07:04 < Psi-Jack> That works as well. heh 07:07 < Psi-Jack> dunst is a very good libnotify provider, and rofi is a simple, fast launcher, combined with the XFCE Whisker Menu plugin if desired. 07:13 < jimm> lemme see if this works 07:14 < luxio> how is something using >100% CPU in htop? 07:14 < Psi-Jack> luxio: Multiple CPU cores. 07:14 < luxio> oh 07:22 < jimm> looks like I have i3 and xfce 07:24 < flipper887_deb> jim Which distribution are you using? 07:25 < jimm> debian jessie 07:25 < jimm> on this machine 07:25 < [R]> ♪ i wish that i was jessies girl... 07:26 < jimm> where can I find a jessie like that 07:29 < jimm> flipper887_deb, why do you ask? 07:30 < Psi-Jack> jimm: Not stretching yet 07:30 < Psi-Jack> ? 07:30 < jimm> not on this machine, I have unrelated work to do first 07:33 < AmazeCPK> Hello, I'm having some trouble getting my two node applications to reverse proxy correctly. At the moment, I can only reach out to one application externally. 07:33 < protocol_hive> for anyone able to answer: i am trying to install i3-gaps on 16.04, i am 07:33 < protocol_hive> running into an issue with ./autogen.sh --prefix=/usr; which is throwing 07:33 < protocol_hive> errors at me and cannot figure why 07:33 < protocol_hive> sorry dont know why that paste is all messed up 07:34 < Psi-Jack> Seems like your post has.. gaps. 07:39 < [R]> protocol_hive: OH NO... NOT ERRORS!? 07:42 < jimm> Psi-Jack, how do you get that plugin for the xfce panel to put i3 workspaces on the panel? 07:43 * jimm is also not allergic to reading 07:53 < drb1> i just realized, I don't have the min, max, and close icons on my windows. How can I fix that? I am running Xubuntu 07:54 < TomTheDragon> drb1, you should have some openbox configuration option in the menu 07:55 < TomTheDragon> pretty sure the defaults include the classic min/max/close buttons 07:55 < drb1> configuration menu, sounds familiar 07:55 < drb1> nope, i don't have then 07:56 < drb1> i've been right clicking and selecting via the menu to do all of that since October 07:56 < granttrec> is grep usually slow? I am trying to remove all instances of -m32 from a file, but I want to check first so I run grep '-m32' file but its taking a while... 07:56 < TomTheDragon> did you have the classic partial width bar at the bottom? 07:56 < drb1> ? 07:56 < drb1> Maybe, can't remember 07:56 < TomTheDragon> in xfce 07:57 < drb1> But I think I moved the bar to the top 07:57 < [R]> granttrec: a single file? is it huge? 07:58 < drb1> I remember I got to the menu with all the configs once 07:58 < TomTheDragon> drb1, ah. well, am not sure exactly what menu openbox config would be in, or if you'd have to install it separately. 07:58 < drb1> I'll figure it out 07:58 < granttrec> R: nope wc -l says 263 lines 07:58 < [R]> granttrec: then you're not doing hat you said you are 07:59 < Roserin> What command did you run? 07:59 < granttrec> [R], should I screen shot then? I'm doing exactly this `grep '-m32' configure.ac` 08:00 < drb1> openbox doesn't seem to be installed on my machine, TomTheDragon 08:00 < drb1> Welp, I'll be back after that 08:01 < TomTheDragon> drb1, xubuntu? what window manager 08:02 < TomTheDragon> ah... right. xfce4 is xfwm, their own window manager 08:02 < TomTheDragon> I'm so used to mix-and-match components that keeping track of them is hard 08:03 < drb1> ? 08:03 < drb1> I don't understand 08:03 < jimm> TomTheDragon, looks like xfce core and i3wm are possible together 08:03 < dzaczek> Hie all 08:03 < drb1> hi dzaczek 08:03 < jimm> hi 08:04 < TomTheDragon> jimm, you can use pretty much any window manager/desktop manager/panel combo 08:05 < drb1> Nevermind, I went to window manager and pressed theme 08:05 < TomTheDragon> ah 08:05 < drb1> Strange, bc you can choose your theme there 08:05 < drb1> and the icons will show 08:05 < drb1> I originally selected my theme using the appearance or theme config I think 08:05 < drb1> and no icons 08:05 < drb1> But thank you TomTheDragon 08:05 < TomTheDragon> there's different types of themes.. window manager themes, widget themes, etc 08:06 < TomTheDragon> jimm, I am using jwm with its included panel currently, it's not the most beautiful thing but memory usage is impressive. 08:06 < [R]> not as impressive as twm 08:07 < TomTheDragon> [R], dwm is one of the smallest of course, more features than twm 08:07 < [R]> twm is all one needs 08:08 < drb1> ah okay 08:08 < drb1> bc i can change the theme as well using appearance 08:08 < drb1> it mentions something along the lines of changing the desktop 08:08 < drb1> but, the applications, the look of those change too 08:09 < drb1> Strange.. 08:09 < drb1> Just trying to make sense of it all 08:09 < sauvin> drb1, "because", not "bc". 08:13 < granttrec> [R], its still going https://imgur.com/a/RWWrN 08:14 < [R]> granttrec: grep -- '-m32' configure.ac 08:14 < granttrec> whats the `--` ? 08:15 < [R]> tells programs to stop looking for - options 08:16 < granttrec> is the `-` of `-m32` still needed for the expression then? 08:16 < [R]> what? 08:16 < sauvin> granttrec, see if it would make any difference grepping just on 'm32' 08:17 < granttrec> just wondering why `-` isn't matched by grep as part of the string 08:17 < granttrec> sauvin, it did, now I am not sure why 08:17 < [R]> who said its not being matched? 08:18 < granttrec> any idea why it would take so long then? 08:19 < granttrec> `-` is not part of regex iirc 08:19 < [R]> because its not actually doing antyhing 08:19 < [R]> grep thinks you are telling it grep -m32 08:19 < [R]> -m is an option 08:19 < [R]> so then it uses configue.ac as the thing to search for 08:19 < [R]> and you're not giving it a file to search 08:20 < granttrec> what about the single qoutes? Would I need double instead, and that makes sense, thanks 08:20 < sauvin> Dashes are tricky. :\ 08:20 < [R]> no quotes are going to change the facct that you're giving it an option of -m 08:20 < granttrec> ahh, a meta character that needs to be escaped then 08:21 < sauvin> I've not had a lot of luck just trying to escape crap. 08:22 < granttrec> aha :) 08:30 < contrapunctus> o/ 08:31 < contrapunctus> Debian Stretch; what can I do to have geo: URIs open openstreetmap.org in Firefox at the linked location? 08:32 < [R]> get some kind of extension? 08:34 < contrapunctus> [R]: ? 08:35 < contrapunctus> There doesn't seem to be any. 08:36 < [R]> well taht sounds unfortunate for you... 08:40 < Masterboy> hi there :) does anyone know if micro-b has enough wires to support 10 gbps usb 3.1? 08:44 < twanny796> good morning linux 08:47 < Masterboy> hi 08:47 < dzaczek> hi 08:48 < Masterboy> does anyone know if micro-b has enough wires to support 10 gbps usb 3.1? as it was made for usb 3.0 :/ 08:50 < dzaczek> Masterboy: if this is 3.1 standart on the paper, schuld but i dont think it is possible 08:51 < dzaczek> Masterboy: Do you want use ehternet over usb ? 08:51 < Masterboy> yeah, my brain hurts... no, i want to connect an external ssd micro-b to usb-c :/ 08:52 < Masterboy> the controller can do 10 gbps advertised but can micro-b do 10 gbps :/ 08:53 < Masterboy> i read that you need more wires for 10 gbps 08:55 < dzaczek> Masterboy: If cabel and port is certificatred to 3.1 , but but usb 3.1 gen 1= 5Gbps / Gen2 10 Gbps 08:57 < dzaczek> Masterboy: https://www.pcworld.com/article/3058320/storage/heres-how-slow-your-laptops-usb-type-c-port-could-be.html 08:58 < Masterboy> dzaczek, yeah i know, the cable is certified usb 3.1 gen 2 10 gbps usbc to micro b... but micro b standard is usb 3.0 or 3.1 gen 1 08:59 < Masterboy> is there a micro-b usb 3.1 gen 2 standard ? :/ 09:09 < dzaczek> Masterboy: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Belkin-Micro-B-Certified-Compatible-MacBook/dp/B00WJSPZAG there is a cable ; there http://www.usb.org/developers/ssusb/USB_3_1_Language_Product_and_Packaging_Guidelines_FINAL.pdf there officaial documentaion ian i don't found information about speed vs port shape in usb standart . if all ports have standarts 3.1 (no fake china standard) schould work . 09:11 < Masterboy> dzaczek, thanks a lot I guess the only way to find out is to buy it :D and belkin it seems is not certified. only amazon basics :P http://www.usb.org/kcompliance/view/USB%20Type-C%20Cable%20Certifications.pdf 09:13 < dzaczek> Masterboy: oh nice list my aukey is certyficated wow is supprise , but where is xiaomi cable :P 09:25 < nothos> Hey all, has anyone used mysql in master-master with a floating IP using keepalived? 09:25 < nothos> Any pitfalls someone should be aware of? 09:29 < rpgio> nothos: try #mysql 09:35 < Masterboy> dzaczek, yeah the usb-c cable certification is new. Hard to find cerified cables... 09:43 < P_B> hrm. My root partition has mysteriously filled itself to the last byte. I am doing a large file copy, but not to that partition. /var is only 500MB. Actually, if I select everything but /mnt /media and /proc, nothing shows that it is using more than a few GB 09:43 < P_B> any ideas? 09:55 < jcarpenter2> is there a function in the vein of basename / dirname that concatenates strings together into a path? 09:56 < jcarpenter2> e.g. pathname("/home/lol", ".fb-cli") should produce "/home/lol/.fb-cli" (even if there are trailing / beginning slashes on the input strings) 10:03 < sauvin> jcarpenter2, in what language? 10:03 < jcarpenter2> C 10:04 < jcarpenter2> i'm looking for the counterpart to basename and dirname, if one exists: those split paths apart, whereas I need to put a path together 10:05 < rosa_> As in add two strings into one string? 10:05 < rosa_> Like A and B to AB 10:06 < jcarpenter2> yeah, but with the ability to handle extra "/" characters at the end of the first or the beginning of the second 10:06 < rosa_> Ok 10:07 < jcarpenter2> looks like there is no such function https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1305297/concatenate-path-and-basename 10:07 < rosa_> Lol 10:07 < jcarpenter2> according to that answer anyway 10:08 < jcarpenter2> thanks for your time :) 10:13 < velix> Damit, where is there no multithread ZIP implementation :( 10:15 < talx> hey guys I have a virtual machine 10:15 < talx> when I log in with ssh 10:15 < talx> it always log me out 10:16 < babyfoxy> if linux could beat windows in gaming speed, windows would go out of business because no one would have a reason to use windows anymore 10:17 < rosa_> Something like this 10:20 < rosa_> pathdir="$(dirname "${dirsreal[i]}") ; if [[ $pathdir = "/" ] then pathdir= ; fi ; pathdir="$pathdir/" ; pathbase=("${dirsreal[i]#$pathdir}") ; pathstripped=("${pathdir#$stripped}") ; if [[ $pathstripped = "/" ]] 10:20 < rosa_> then pathstripped= ; fi ; echo "$pathstripped$pathbase" processed 10:21 < rosa_> stripped="$(strippath "$path" )" 10:23 < rosa_> strippath() { realpath1=$(readlink -f "$1"); pathdir1=$(dirname "$realpath1"); pathdir1="$pathdir1/"; echo "$pathdir1; } 10:23 < rosa_> That should do what u want 10:25 < interrobangd> sag mal, kann man nur global für den kernel festlegen das man firmware in den kernel einbauen will oder nicht? nicht pro modul? 10:26 < interrobangd> also vielleicht will ich ja genrerell das firmware eingebaut wird, aber nicht die vom modul XY 10:26 < rosa_> Tho that is only 1 version of it 10:26 < interrobangd> oh eng 10:26 < rosa_> Not sure if I pieced it together correctly tho 10:27 < Firefox_esr> Hi folks, I want to install Firefox 52 ESR on my linux mint cinnamon. I already have firefox quantum installed, want 52 ESR side by side because an addon I require isn't compatible with 57. How to do this? 10:27 < rosa_> cant 10:27 < Firefox_esr> :( Then I'll have to use Windows. 10:27 < rosa_> u either have quantum or ESR, cannot have both 10:27 < Firefox_esr> And get the portable 53 ESR 10:28 < Firefox_esr> *52 ESR 10:28 < rosa_> Anyway 10:28 < rosa_> What would be an appropriate channel for sound design 10:30 < rosa_> For example: https://i.imgur.com/1epYwpX.jpg 10:31 < levd1> Hi all, is there a way to add a gpio-syscon without touch drivers/gpio/gpio-syscon.c ? I'm currently in need of using a bit in syscon register to control the regulator. 10:32 < levd1> Or is there any better way to control the regulator? I would like to upstream my modification too. 10:34 < sauvin> rosa: "you", not "u". 10:55 < nostrora> The source code of Linux is clea" or "spaghetti hacked trash" ? 10:55 < nostrora> clean* 10:55 < sixardyH> both 10:55 < bazhang> nostrora, do you have any evidence of the latter 10:56 < nostrora> bazhang: no one, i've read somewhere FreeBSD was very clean and stable. (and Linux is VERY stable for me too). i just want to know if linux code is good. What do linux hackers think about linux code quality? 10:57 < bazhang> nostrora, no idea, ask in a hackers forum 10:57 < nostrora> k 10:58 < babyfoxy> if i encrypt my harddrive, will things harddrive related load/write slower? 10:59 < sixardyH> it will be slightly slower, yes 10:59 < sixardyH> but not really noticeable in general 11:01 < nostrora> babyfoxy: you can check your encryption speed with dm-crypt 11:02 < nostrora> babyfoxy: Run "cryptsetup benchmark". If value is higher than your hard disk speed. you will not see slower 11:02 < swiftkey> Hi there, I want to transfer files using password less login with rsync, is it possible that the given username can only do adding files for transfer and cannot execute anything in server ? 11:03 < Masterboy> now i wonder does usb type A support 10 gbps or only usb-c can support 10 gbps? 11:03 < Masterboy> damn :/ 11:04 < nostrora> usb-c is only an socket. the speed is managed by usb version (3, 3.1, thunderbolt etc.) 11:04 < P_B> derp. I coped recursively something to a location that wasn't mounted. It therefore created that location literally on /mnt/... This will fill up the drive. :P 11:05 < nostrora> Masterboy: you need USB 3.1 for 10Gb/s. with Type C or Type C. anyone can support usb 3.1 11:05 < nostrora> type A or C 11:05 < Masterboy> nostrora, can micro-b support 10gb/s? 11:06 < Masterboy> nostrora, i am thinking about the wires.... 11:06 < nostrora> Masterboy: if there is an micro-b USB 3.1 exist, yes 11:07 < twanny796> I'm setting quotas with edquota twanny796 11:07 < twanny796> Disk quotas for user twanny796 (uid 1007): 2 Filesystem blocks soft hard inodes soft hard 3 /dev/sdb5 0 50000 100000 0 0 0 11:07 < P_B> does 3.1 combine two 3.0 interfaces in parallel? 11:07 < RayTracer> babyfoxy: this heaily depends on the cpu features you have. without aes-ni, prepare to get slowed down a lot 11:07 < twanny796> and when I do 'quota twanny796', I get none 11:08 < Masterboy> nostrora, https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01GGKYIHS/ it seems it does... but i am looking for documentation to prove it... 11:09 < nostrora> Masterboy: 3.1 gen 2 is good. Go buy it. if you don't have the correct speed, just ask a refund 11:09 < twanny796> https://paste.linux.community/view/d38be645 11:12 < Masterboy> nostrora, okay, thanks, i am trying to read http://www.usb.org/developers/compliance/usbcpd_testing/USB_Type-C_Compliance_Document_rev_1_1.pdf maybe i will find something more interesting... 11:13 < nostrora> Masterboy: seem interesting yes :) 11:43 < Masterboy> https://cambrionix.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/USB-Type-C-Specification-Release-1.3.pdf table 3-2 revelant info for usb 3.1 gen 2 plugs 11:44 < Masterboy> type A and micro-B to usb-c do support 10gbps 11:44 < Masterboy> standard b does too 11:49 < Unrecovered> hOi 11:50 < Unrecovered> i need to find all ip adresses listed in a file(it's a web page so they're burried under alot of garbage) 11:50 < Unrecovered> what's the easiest way? 11:52 < Unrecovered> hm 11:53 < djph> what's the file look like? 11:54 < Unrecovered> um...lots of unformatted data with ip adresses spread here and there 11:54 < collins> do you regret working with computers and that you rather would have picked a more social job? 11:54 < Unrecovered> html tags, css layout, some obsolete php code and such 11:55 < Unrecovered> collins I worked in techsupport and i can sinecerly say F*CK PEOPLE 11:55 < Unrecovered> machines ftw 11:55 < Unrecovered> so no, no regrets 11:56 < Triffid_Hunter> Unrecovered: regex 11:57 < Unrecovered> Triffid_Hunter i figured that much, but i need an example =) how do you find data by template and crop it elsewhere? 11:57 < Unrecovered> i mean, i have some experience with awk, but awk staggers if there's no actual spacing 11:58 < Triffid_Hunter> Unrecovered: wget -O - someurl | perl -ne 'while (/(\d+\.\d+\.\d+\.\d+)/g) { print "$1\n"; }' | tee somefile.txt or so? 11:58 < TaZeR> why does my crond always leave this in logs by the masses? "CROND[29026]: (CRON) ERROR chdir failed (/dev/null): Not a directory" 11:58 < Triffid_Hunter> TaZeR: it's trying to run jobs as a user who apparently has /dev/null set as their homedir? 11:59 < Unrecovered> hmm i'l try that now 11:59 < TaZeR> i dont know how that would be done i never touched it and im the only user 11:59 < TJ-> TaZeR: because /dev/null is not a directory ? because an I/O redirection to /dev/null is misisng the > symbol? 11:59 < TaZeR> i have a task to update clamav unofficial virus sigs, that sends something to /dev/null but i dont know why it does this 11:59 < TaZeR> but i wrote it exactly as the wiki said 11:59 < TaZeR> hold on ill show u the cron task 12:00 < Jellyg00se> Hi, I'm curious as to why "exec /bin/true" closes the shell? 12:00 < TaZeR> 9 * * * * clamav [ -x /usr/bin/clamav-unofficial-sigs.sh ] && /usr/bin/bash /usr/bin/clamav-unofficial-sigs.sh > /dev/null 12:00 < TaZeR> is there a problem there? 12:00 < twanny796> Unrecovered: What are you doing now? 12:00 < CtrlC> Is there anyway to make something like: C://whatever a valid address in linux? I mean like assigning it to a directory. 12:01 < Triffid_Hunter> Jellyg00se: because exec permanently passes control to another executable, and true finishes immediately 12:01 < Jellyg00se> Triffid_Hunter, makes perfect sense thank you :) 12:01 < Triffid_Hunter> CtrlC: all valid directories start with / or are a sub-path of the current directory 12:02 < Triffid_Hunter> CtrlC: also the windows thing with disks is dumb, why bring it here? 12:02 < twanny796> Disk quotas for user twanny796 (uid 1007): none --- any help on quotas? 12:03 < Triffid_Hunter> CtrlC: you could hypothetically take over open() with LD_LIBRARY_PRELOAD, but I can't imagine any sane reason to do so 12:03 < CtrlC> Triffid_Hunter, cause it's a linux question. I have a software trying to use files from some windows like address. am trying to port it somehow. 12:03 < Triffid_Hunter> CtrlC: rewrite the paths or run it in wine 12:03 < CtrlC> nah that'll be too much work. I think rewriting the paths is the best option.:( 12:03 < Triffid_Hunter> CtrlC: even windows stuff shouldn't use hardcoded paths, so either it's horribly broken or you're doing it wrong 12:03 < CtrlC> something in between. 12:04 < CtrlC> it is a fake address actually is uses for security reasons. 12:04 < Unrecovered> Triffid_Hunter well i'll be damned, it does exactly that :D 12:04 < Unrecovered> thanks 12:05 < Triffid_Hunter> Unrecovered: you're welcome, and keep in mind that perl is *designed* to easily crunch text ;) 12:06 < Unrecovered> Triffid_Hunter: perl is one thing i succesfully evaded so far :D seems like the time has come 12:08 < djph> I always liked just grabbing those country blacklists as textfiles ... 12:11 < Bunk> Hi 12:12 < Bunk> I set transmission port, opened it in firewall and router, but the program is showing the port as closed. What could be wrong ? 12:13 < bazhang> which port Bunk 12:13 < Bunk> tcp 12:13 < bazhang> ? 12:13 < bazhang> the actual number 12:14 < Bunk> between 49000 and 52000 12:14 < bazhang> your router should have upnp 12:14 < bazhang> so use the setting in transmission and fiddle to find a suitable port 12:16 < djph> ew, upnp 12:16 < Bunk> there is the same problem in qbittorrent 12:16 < bazhang> then use a more sensible torrent client 12:17 < bazhang> must it be gui? 12:17 < djph> on your router, does it say its WAN IP address is anything in the ranges 10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255; 100.64.0.0 - 100.127.255.255; 172.16.0.0 - 172.31.255.255; 192.168.0.0-192.168.255.255 ? 12:18 < Bunk> must be gui 12:18 < bazhang> shame 12:18 < Bunk> hihi 12:18 < bazhang> rtorrent is so easy to use 12:18 < bazhang> and easy to set up as well 12:19 < Bunk> djph: opening router 12:20 < djph> Bunk: ok. just need a yes or no on that question (no need to provide the address) 12:20 < Bunk> Yes, it is 192 something 12:20 < djph> Bunk: is the second octet 168? 12:21 < Bunk> yes 12:21 < Bunk> i picked dhcp usage 12:22 < djph> Bunk: Okay, in that case, something upstream of your router is doing NAT. If you're using a linksys router (for example), it could be your ISP-provided "home gateway". 12:25 < Bunk> hmm 12:25 < Bunk> is there a way to bypass 12:27 < djph> Bunk: depends on whether or not it's a "residential gateway" provided by your ISP, or your ISP using CGNAT 12:28 < Bunk> djph: Difficult q. I don't know it. But i used to work very well 12:28 < djph> if in your home, you have another box upstream of your router, it is most likely that device doing the NAT. *SOME* ISPs allow you to set that into "bridge" (aka "modem only") mode. 12:29 < djph> If you have no other devices in your home (i.e. modem is plugged into a cable that goes to an antenna on the roof, or it's internet provided by your apartment complex, some other situations), then you're probably out of luck. 12:32 < kurahaupo> djph: bridging is a function of the modem/router; unless it's supplied by the ISP and they've locked it, the only reason for not having bridge mode would be because it's a stupid ("simple") modem 12:32 < Bunk> No, it is a single router use in here. It is just plugged into the phonebox 12:34 < djph> kurahaupo: indeed, but since "his router" is getting a 192.168.x.x WAN address, the ISP "modem(tm)" is either more than just a modem, or his ISP is doing CGNAT 12:34 < djph> Bunk: phonebox? 12:35 < Bunk> Ah, yes, it is called ADSL 12:35 < Bunk> the router cable is placed in the middle slot 12:35 < djph> ADSL should provide you with a public IP address (barring a sufficiently small ISP) 12:35 < djph> sounds like your DSL "modem" is actually a router. 12:35 < Bunk> yes 12:36 < Bunk> yes, a router 12:37 < djph> well, there you go. Reset the ISP-supplied device such that it is in "bridge" (modem-only) mode, and your router should then be able to pull a proper public IP address. 12:37 < Bunk> hmm 12:39 < djph> If you can't do that, port-forward everything from the ISP-device to your router 12:40 < Bunk> I thought an ISP device is a router... // 12:41 < Bunk> But OK 12:41 < djph> depends on the ISP, most provide "home gateways" (i.e. router + modem + switch + wifi). Some will provide "just a modem" if you ask. 12:41 < Bunk> I can reset it 12:41 < Bunk> The old config is saved 12:41 < djph> huh? 12:41 < djph> STOP 12:42 < djph> you need to be VERY clear right now 12:42 < djph> you have a phone cable (DSL), plugged into what. Then, do you, or do you not have a router behind it? 12:43 * TJ- hears the screetvhing of tyres... 12:43 < TJ-> ... and then a breaking of glass! 12:44 < Bunk> The router is connected to 2nd one of the three-slot-telephone box 12:49 < jarco> Does anyone know of a way to let curl also return the time it took to do the request? 12:50 < TJ-> jarco: can't you wrap it with "time" ? 12:51 < jarco> TJ-: I will look that up, I dont know the command 12:52 < TJ-> jarco: "man time" used as " time curl http://domain.tld/path/ " 12:53 < jarco> that seems to do exactly what I want 12:53 < jarco> thanks 12:53 < jarco> I used tldr time :p 12:54 < jarco> but had to install it first, good software! Thnaks for solving my probem 12:54 < Bunk> In fact it is a o2 Homebox 6641 model 12:54 < djph> Bunk: that might be a router as well ... 12:55 < Bunk> yes 12:55 < djph> you have an O2 homebox, and what else? 12:55 < djph> or JUST an O2 homebox, and your phone wallplate has three sockets or something? 12:58 < Bunk> Yes, it is just the homebox and it is connected to where it used to be 13:04 < hexnewbie> Best desktop environment of all time of the year - KDE 5. Average CPU usage: 200%. 13:05 < peetaur2> just kill it (plasmashell usually) and it respawns 13:05 < peetaur2> is that arch based? I would expect not to see that on a stable release distro 13:05 < hexnewbie> 60% Plasma, 30% X11, 100% mysqld (spawned by KDE) 13:06 < Bunk> haha 13:06 < peetaur2> hah mysql... wtf is it doing then? 13:06 < peetaur2> did you disable baloo disk io waster? 13:06 < peetaur2> in kde4 you could only disable it by giving it an empty dir and saying only index that....but now you can simply uncheck a box 13:07 < hexnewbie> That's the mail client. Doing a query with a 4-table join for every individual mail message in the mailbox. 13:07 < mawk> lol 13:07 < peetaur2> queries aren't what mysql is made for... (it's made for unprovable marketing claims like "fastest db in the world" [which is only true if you accept myisam as a "db" even though it has no transactions]) 13:07 < hexnewbie> It does this every time it checks the mail from the IMAP server. Academy Award for best writing? 13:08 < peetaur2> (and that probably excludes queries to non-empty tables or something marketting worthy) 13:08 < peetaur2> I remember the time when someone found mysql was too slow for a query, so they replaced the query with a db dump + import to postgresql + query on postgresql + drop db and it was faster 13:09 < SkunkyFone> peetaur2: that's nuts! 13:09 < peetaur2> it was like 15min vs 1min 13:10 < hexnewbie> peetaur2: Well, the story applies to other RDBMS. I've done that instead of FULL VACUUM on PostgreSQL (doesn't really compare to a ‘query’). But yeah, I've been unhappy with MySQL whenever I needed to make queries fast (not that I can compare to an equivalent one on other RDBMS) 13:11 < stevendale> Hi 13:12 < hexnewbie> Given that I almost over-engineer my databases in ways that I can't make them fast even with PostgreSQL indexes, I think if you gave me MySQL to work with, I'll reach the above story within 7 days. 13:12 < JimBuntu> Either of you given MongoDB a spin? 13:12 < kbob> jarco: man curl check the -w that have time variables or read https://www.shellhacks.com/check-website-response-time-linux-command-line/ 13:13 < peetaur2> hexnewbie: keep us informed :) 13:14 < hvxgr> nice dd if=/dev/zero bs=1G count=128 status=progress > bigfile # (fedora 27, dell latitude w/8GB ram, i5) Finishes, but laptop "blocks" while it runs (mouse cursor 13:14 < hvxgr> froze, 'top' froze, visible computer time of day clock freezes, ^z ^c ^\ are ignored, cannot open virtual console. 'bigfile' is exactly 128GB at end. (writing to USB external 13:14 < hvxgr> drivei, mounted as 'fuseblk') How might I throttle this? 13:14 < peetaur2> I read about mongodb once...it's that db that encourages you to just dump another format like xml in a single column right? and then you think "wow that's fast!" until you write even the most basic lookup and see it's unusably slow 13:14 < mawk> yes JimBuntu 13:15 < JimBuntu> hvxgr, blocksize is 1GB, drop the blocksize and increase the count accordingly 13:15 < hexnewbie> I'll just settle for JSON columns in postgres for now ;) 13:15 < stevendale> o/ 13:15 < JimBuntu> peetaur2, No, I think you have it confused with another db. 13:15 < stevendale> bs=1M count=128000 13:15 < stevendale> hvxgr 13:16 < mawk> bs=whatever iflag=count_bytes count=128G 13:16 < mawk> nicer 13:16 < JimBuntu> mawk, I didn't realize you could use "G" in count 13:16 < hvxgr> JimBuntu: ok. If nothing else bs=1G, it is an interesting way of crippling yourself for a few tens of minutes. 13:17 < mawk> JimBuntu: with iflag=count_bytes only 13:17 < Bunk> djph: amule works though, but has low id attributed 13:17 < mawk> so that count is a byte count instead of a bs count 13:17 < stevendale> hvxgr: Defragmenting Windows cripples it about the same :) 13:17 < JimBuntu> mawk, yeah, that's interesting, I need to re-read the dd man pages I guess 13:20 < hexnewbie> The bug report for the plasma usage had a environmental variable that could be used to reduce the CPU usage tenfold, but its' closed as FIXED, and their bug tracker requires me to learn a query syntax to search for FIXED bugs :/ 13:20 < mawk> lol 13:26 < mawk> let's learn netlink 13:26 < mawk> I've pushed away the deadline too many times 13:28 < Tobbi_> I accidentally deleted a directory with rm -rf 13:28 < Tobbi_> Is there a way to get it back? 13:28 < mawk> stop using that computer, and analyze the drive with a live cd 13:28 < mawk> the longer you wait, the more likely these files have been overwritten 13:32 < V7> Hey all 13:32 < V7> Is it possible to get why after some amount of time Super key stops calling start menu ? 13:33 < hexnewbie> OK, I think this reduces Plasma CPU usage significantly: QSG_RENDER_LOOP=basic QSG_DISTANCEFIELD_ANTIALIASING=subpixel-lowq; However, my issue turned out to be unrelated to that problem, it turns out stopping the mail stopped both Plasma and MySQL's usage. So it's something as stupid as the calendar/clock widget querying the PIM database for birthdays 10 times a second and refershing 13:33 < nazarewk> is it possible to combine -n1 with -I {} in xargs? 13:33 < hexnewbie> (That's speculation) 13:33 < nazarewk> for me either works but not both at once 13:34 < kurahaupo> V7: when you find out please let me know, because I want to get RID of the start menu being activated when I bump the super key 13:36 < hexnewbie> LOL. That's absolutely hilarious. KDE PIM is running a MySQL query. The query is *123261 bytes*. 13:37 < mawk> what is it doing ? 13:38 < hexnewbie> It's basically a gigantic WHERE with ‘OR ( PimItemTable.id >= ? AND PimItemTable.id <= ? )’ repeated over and over. The type of query where selecting the whole table and checking would be faster. Also where in PostgreSQL you'd simply do PimItemTable.id >= ANY(ARRAY[...]). 14:01 < peetaur2> JimBuntu: actually it looks like it is, but it says json instead of xml 14:03 < JimBuntu> yes, json/bson, not xml and no concept of columns. 14:10 < BluesKaj> Hi folks 14:14 < stevendale> Hey BluesKaj 14:15 < BluesKaj> Hi stevendale 14:21 < xdije> hi 14:21 < xdije> i've configured a nfs4 with krb5 and works fine for all auth users, 14:22 < xdije> but i want to make root able to access the shares from remote machines 14:22 < xdije> but it always gets access denied 14:30 < djph> probably because allowing "root" to connect from remote locations is dumb 10/10 times. 14:31 < stevendale> Puppy Linux 14:35 < Psi-Jack> Warning! Warning! Puppy Linux mentioned, warning! 14:36 < Psi-Jack> xdije: enter is not punctuation or pauses in thought. Hitting enter excessively makes communication and focus more difficult. :) 14:40 < blackflag_bfp> Morning 14:40 < jimmm> and, not hitting enter so often takes some thought and planning of your ideas and statements 14:40 < jimmm> hi 14:43 < maccampus> Does linux support following; USB 3.1, thunderbold 3 and USB-c ? 14:44 < jimmm> each or those three? 14:44 < jimmm> what's thunderbold? 14:46 < maccampus> Zach/any 14:46 < maccampus> Thunderbold is a connection that Apple uses 14:46 < maccampus> For screens, harddisks, Network, aka al 14:47 < Foxfir3> thunderbolt 14:47 < maccampus> Think its Some soort of bridge to PCI express 14:47 < boxrick> Within UDEV you can rename network interfaces using a MAC without much issue, however can I match a subset of the mac with a wildcard or something similar? 14:48 < jimmm> it sounds like you want to know if linux supports some particular device that has all three? 14:48 < boxrick> So for example I want vendorA NICs to use eth0-99 14:49 < maccampus> The device is a Mac laptop 14:49 < maccampus> Which onlangs 14:49 < maccampus> Which onlangs 14:50 < maccampus> Which only had USB-c connectors, these supports both USB 3.1 and Thunderbolt 3 14:52 < maccampus> I want to be able to Connect devices using both standarts 14:52 < maccampus> Like external harddisk , monitor, camera 14:53 < maccampus> Also ethernet 14:53 < maccampus> Cos the computer is WiFi only 14:56 < jimmm> ok.... how much unpartitioned space does it have/ 14:56 < jimmm> ? 14:58 < maccampus> I can reinitialize the disk and take 250 gb 14:58 < maccampus> Or max to approx 500 gb 15:00 < maccampus> Or i can boot from USB if USB c is supported 15:00 < Psi-Jack> Thunderbolt, not thunderbold 15:01 < jimmm> do you normally run macos? 15:01 < Dominian> THUNDERBOLD! 15:01 < Dominian> Sounds like something from Mad Max 15:01 < Psi-Jack> heh 15:01 < Dominian> Two engineers enter! 3 Engineers Leave! 15:01 < Psi-Jack> As for USB-C, that's /just/ a connector type. It's associated with USB 3.x 15:01 < maccampus> Jimmm yes 15:02 < Psi-Jack> So, yes, Linux supports that. It doesn't care about the connector port itself. 15:02 < maccampus> Psi and also to Thunderbolt 3 15:02 < Psi-Jack> Thunderbolt isn't just a connector type. 15:03 < jimmm> ok, so then you'd also be saying you have the macos install cd and can reinstall macos at will? 15:03 < maccampus> Yess no 15:03 < Psi-Jack> Linux does appear to support some level of Thunderbolt. To what extent though, I don't know. Never used it. 15:03 < maccampus> No cd , install partition 15:03 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: heh 15:04 < Dominian> Thunderbolt is awesome... 15:04 < jimmm> ok... is the drive partitions completely covering the hd right now? 15:05 < maccampus> Nope 15:05 < maccampus> Three are 2 15:05 < ayecee> new math 15:05 < jimmm> ok, how much space on the drive (that you could allocagte) is not in any partition right now? 15:06 < maccampus> None 15:06 < jimmm> so your partitions cover the whole drive? 15:06 < maccampus> I need to remove resize the partition first 15:07 < jimmm> ok... do you have (say) an external usb drive, that has at least 20g? 15:07 < jimmm> an ssd or spinning disk 15:08 < maccampus> Dure, its USB 3.1 with USB-c connection 15:08 < maccampus> Dure = sure 15:08 < jimmm> do you have other usb ports other than the one the ext would connect? 15:09 < jimmm> (what I'm leading to: maybe just try it, if not too expensive) 15:10 < maccampus> I have 4 USB 3.1 / Thunderbolt 3 Ports using USB-c connection 15:12 < maccampus> Seems freebsd does support iT too, 15:13 < maccampus> Nut only USB 3.0 steeds 15:13 < maccampus> Speeds 15:14 < maccampus> So what speeds does Linux USB support 15:14 < maccampus> 5 or 10 15:15 < Psi-Jack> All 15:15 < Psi-Jack> Seems you're hitting enter abusively... 15:15 < maccampus> Also 20 ? 15:15 < Psi-Jack> What part of All are you unclear of? 15:16 < maccampus> No i have a typo corrector that Speaks dutch 15:16 < Psi-Jack> wut? 15:18 < maccampus> I didn.t toucht threre was any os besides macos that already supported USB 3.2 15:18 < Psi-Jack> Huh.. Well, I found what I'd call a blatent bug on borgbackup. ;) 15:19 < Dominian> Borg looks interesting 15:20 < Psi-Jack> Apparently if you specify --keep-within, --keep-minutely and --keep-hourly, along side --keep-daily, --keep-weekly, --keep-monthly, it completely disregards the latter ones. 15:20 < Psi-Jack> To me, that's a bug in borg backup itself. 15:20 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: It is interesting. I got everyone at my department at work now using it. :D 15:21 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: command line only eh 15:22 < Psi-Jack> Well, yeah. but with a wrapper like borgmatic, it can easily automaintain backups for you. Even though you don't technically need it. ;) 15:22 < maccampus> If you keep minutly, isnt iT logica that iT disregard hourly, dayly, Weekly and so on 15:22 < Psi-Jack> No. 15:22 < maccampus> To mee iT seems logically 15:23 < Psi-Jack> It should be able to compute both, accordingly. If you tell it to keep minutely, within 3H, and hourly, it should compute back 3 hours, and keep the number of hourly's you set to keep. 15:23 < Psi-Jack> it, not iT 15:23 < maccampus> Sorry dutch spell controll 15:24 < Psi-Jack> I don't believe that one bit. :p 15:24 < maccampus> Tell that to my iPad 15:25 < Psi-Jack> Mutter. Same iOS IRC client I use. 15:26 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: I might look closer at it later 15:26 < Dominian> Thinking of ditching my crashplan stuff and going back to just local backup again 15:26 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Yeah. hat's what I did when crashplan took away their home plan. 15:27 < Psi-Jack> Now I backup, using borgbackup, to my Synology NAS, and that gets archived off online for ultimate backup. 15:27 < Dominian> The business plan isn't bad 15:27 < Dominian> what are you using for offline backup? 15:28 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: b2, currently. 15:29 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: link? 15:29 < Psi-Jack> backblaze.com ;) 15:29 < Dominian> ahh 15:29 < Psi-Jack> About $5 for every 1TB. :) 15:30 < Dominian> Simple pricing.. unlimited daata 15:30 < Dominian> 50$ a year 15:30 < Dominian> that's not bad 15:30 < Dominian> Does that run on Linux though.. hmm 15:30 < Psi-Jack> Yep 15:30 < Dominian> Because I 'cheat' 15:30 < Dominian> I push everything to one machine and then backup that machine ;) 15:30 < Psi-Jack> There's a b2 client for Linux anyway. 15:31 < Psi-Jack> The reason I found out about them is duplicity. ;) 15:31 < Dominian> ah 15:31 < djph> they finally got linux support? 15:31 < Psi-Jack> So, I backup everything to my 1 synology, and my synology uses b2 to push all its backups to b2. 15:32 < Psi-Jack> Simlpe. :) 15:32 < Dominian> yah 15:32 < Dominian> I need to see on their site where they have a linux client 15:33 < Psi-Jack> Do you have a Synology? 15:33 < Dominian> Yeah I'm not seeing a linux client 15:34 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: nope 15:34 < Psi-Jack> They don't have a client, directly, but they have these: https://www.backblaze.com/b2/integrations.html 15:34 < Psi-Jack> You can use soemthing like, rclone which can store to b2. 15:34 < Psi-Jack> And works like rsync for b2. 15:35 < Dominian> I see. 15:35 < Dominian> so backup locally.. then use something like rclone to push it to backblaze 15:35 < djph> or apparently duplicity 15:35 < djph> oooo 15:35 < Psi-Jack> Yep. 15:36 < Psi-Jack> Duplicity is where I learned about b2. I was evaluating duplicity for a bit. 15:36 < Dominian> hmmm 15:36 < Dominian> so duplicity.. does tar formats 15:36 < Dominian> meaning, if you backed those up to backblaze.. 15:36 < Dominian> you'd have to restore the entire .tar archive to get one file 15:37 < Dominian> Either way, I need to find another alternative.. possibly.. CrashPlan works well 15:37 < Psi-Jack> Yeah. Very likely. 15:37 < djph> yeah, it does encrypted tarballs 15:38 < Dominian> although $50/year is better than the $10/month, roughtly $120 a year for the crashplan small business plan 15:38 < Psi-Jack> I like b2 because it's cheaper. :) 15:38 < djph> it seems duplicity is a "backup to a backup server, then backup that backup to B2" 15:38 < Dominian> Yeah.. 15:38 < Dominian> I guess I could always go back to bacula locally and push off to offsite 15:39 < Psi-Jack> Because my backups are held locally, I have immediate access, but if I loose that, restoring it can take a bit, but I still have it. Hence the offloaded backup itself. 15:39 < Dominian> decisions decisions 15:39 < djph> I like rsync locally (to a server box) 15:39 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: correct 15:39 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: I do the same thing 15:39 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Funny,. I might be setting up Bacula here at the new job. :) 15:39 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: I have a local backup , then push off to crashplan right now 15:39 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: it's not bad... 15:39 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: However, take your time lol 15:39 < Psi-Jack> We have tape backups here. heh 15:40 < Dominian> make sure you get the bootstrap files in your backups.. your /etc/bacula configs.. 15:40 < Dominian> although even if you lose those.. restoring bacula archives isn't difficult 15:40 < Psi-Jack> heh 15:40 < Dominian> I have until I believe July to make up my mind how I want to continue doing my backups 15:41 < Dominian> That's when I'll have to start paying crashplan again lol 15:41 < Psi-Jack> Yeah. ANYTHING would be better than our current model of LTO backups, which is partially written custom bash/ncurses code. 15:41 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: My company completely made their own full backup solution in-house. 15:41 < Psi-Jack> Kinda scarey. :) 15:41 < Dominian> lol yes 15:41 < Dominian> that's definitelys cary 15:41 < Dominian> has anyone tested disaster recovery with it? 15:41 < Dominian> lol 15:42 < Dominian> I'm going to guess "no" 15:42 < Psi-Jack> They did a fairly interesting job. You can "restore" a full system into a chroot of a running system and "activate" into it, in case of emergencies, but.. 15:42 < Psi-Jack> Though when I did the DRT's for it, yeah, it's failed in many cases. :) 15:42 < Psi-Jack> It used to work really well, supposedly. ehhe 15:43 < Psi-Jack> I'm going to bring them into the new age with containerization/virtualization methods. ;) 15:43 < Psi-Jack> And freaking improve their LTO backup solution, which right now, is abysmal at best. :) 15:45 < Dominian> hmm 15:45 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: I guess if all else failed... 15:45 < Dominian> I could always use a windows VM to manage backblaze lol 15:45 * Psi-Jack cringes. 15:48 < Dominian> hmmm 15:48 < Dominian> there's another option I forgot about 15:48 < Dominian> SpiderOak 15:48 < g1itch> so my home server has this problem where if I have an external drive plugged in, the boot drive is no longer located at the /dev/sdX location so fstab fails to mount everything properly 15:48 < Psi-Jack> Meh. 15:48 < Dominian> SpiderOak was ok when it started 15:48 < Dominian> I rmemeber when they had it integrated into openSUSE for a while lol 15:48 < g1itch> but removing the external drive puts it back to what is correct. is there a way around this? should i be using the by-id identifier in fstab for that drive? 15:49 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: me.. overly priced they are now lol 15:49 < Psi-Jack> Yes... 15:49 < kurahaupo> g1itch: mount by label or by uuid 15:50 < g1itch> got it, thanks! 15:50 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: My recovery solution to everything is. I made an ArchISO pre-configrued to include borgbackup and rclone, so I can both get my data from online, and restore it. 15:51 < Psi-Jack> And borg backup lets you "mount" an archive, so you can get a single file from it, provided you have the whole backup of course since it is differential and deduplicated. 15:51 < Psi-Jack> And compressed. LOL 15:52 < Dominian> hmmm 15:53 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: Looking at B2 pricing... 15:53 < Dominian> is interesting 15:53 < Dominian> for a TB of data it would be like.. 5.12/month 15:53 < solidfox> topic is not preserved if everyone leaves a channel 15:53 < Psi-Jack> Yep. 15:53 < solidfox> Psi-Jack, sup dude 15:53 < solidfox> Psi-Jack, how are ya 15:54 < littlepython> what exactly is called as race condition 15:54 < Psi-Jack> Superscript? I'm not sure what you mean. 15:54 < Psi-Jack> littlepython: What does it sound like? 15:54 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: I have a lot to think about lol 15:54 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Ayup. I had some time to think about all this when crashplan was flipping their middle finger at me. :) 15:55 * solidfox beeps 15:55 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: I wanted something that could be on any platform.. so If I decided to redo my server and install a windows client or another OS, i could just whammo.. install the client.. and run with it 15:55 < solidfox> woah my human suit almost came off 15:55 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: WHICH is why I chose crashplan in the first place 15:55 < littlepython> Psi-Jack: im not sure,but i heard some where that while building distributed applications one encounters errors like race condition and deadlock 15:55 < littlepython> would be great if someone can brief me a little more 15:55 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: I chose crashplan for the pricing and software being server/client model, even though imperfect, it was reliable enough and versioned. 15:56 < Psi-Jack> littlepython: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_condition 15:56 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: aye 15:56 < Psi-Jack> littlepython: Look under Software. 15:56 < Dominian> again, the cross platform was one of the reasons :P 15:56 * solidfox SEND GREETING, AWAITING REPLY. reply timed out. 15:57 < Psi-Jack> littlepython: Simplifiedf: https://searchstorage.techtarget.com/definition/race-condition 15:57 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: I use my backup solution for my wife's mac as well. :) 15:58 < Dominian> yah 15:58 < Psi-Jack> Though I'm considering setting up Time Machine to work on the Synology, and see just how much that consumes. 15:58 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: keep in mind.. anything in my hous that needs to be 'backed up' goes to nextcloud :) 15:58 < Dominian> then I just back that up 15:58 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm, yeha. I backup whole systems. :) 15:58 < Dominian> I have no reason to 15:58 < littlepython> Psi-Jack: deadlock in terms of process? 15:59 < Dominian> server is linux; the rest of th emachines in the house are windows 10. So.. if something gets hosted on them, reinstall.. done. 15:59 < Dominian> hosed* 15:59 < Psi-Jack> littlepython: Am I your google? 15:59 < hyperknot> how can I remove a line from a file which contains a lot of / characers. I do not want to escape every single one of them for sed d. can I use sed s or something better? 16:00 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Ugh... Why... Windows? :) 16:00 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: Because the others in the house aren't as tech savy as I am. 16:00 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Okay, when Microsoft starts charging you yearly subscription fees for Windows 10, will you switch? ;) 16:01 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: I doubt that's going to happen 16:01 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: However 16:01 < solidfox> What do you think I am? Just your personal search engine? no. I am a ##linux support bot. I don't have a search engine command enabled. 16:01 < Psi-Jack> It will. It's been in Microsoft's plans for years! 16:01 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: If that does happen, my household WILLs witch to Linux 16:01 < Psi-Jack> So it's not a matter of if.. More like, when. 16:01 < solidfox> littlepython, its sorta like a catch 22 but yeah. google should give you more details 16:02 < littlepython> solidfox: sure 16:02 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: It'll be a lon gwhile before that happens though 16:02 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: They already did it for businesses, which was step 1. 16:03 < Psi-Jack> :) 16:03 < Psi-Jack> Home users are just a year or two away from that happening as well. 16:03 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: er.. what? 16:04 < Psi-Jack> Yeah. :) 16:04 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: We've not been charged for any type of 'yearly' subscriptinon fees for Windows 10 16:04 * JimBuntu lives in a no MS Windows household 16:04 < Dominian> They've always had a way for companies to manage their licensing 'per year' 16:04 < Dominian> That's nothing new. 16:04 < Dominian> That's been aroung for ages 16:04 < Dominian> around* 16:05 < Dominian> JimBuntu: Honestly, I use whatever suits the purpose and project. 16:05 < Dominian> I prefer Linux, but I can use Windows just fine 16:05 < ayecee> that's very open minded of you 16:05 < Dominian> Mac on the other hand.. I'm a noob 16:05 < Dominian> ayecee: whatever makes me money. 16:05 < Dominian> :) 16:06 < ayecee> +1 16:06 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/windows-10-enterprise-subscription-activation 16:06 < solidfox> Psi-Jack, that would change my life pretty massively if windows started charging an annual fee. well. I guess it depends on how much 16:07 < ayecee> sounds expensive 16:07 < ABCook> i hope M$ kill$ it all 16:08 < JimBuntu> Dominian, I use what I have to, which is why I didn't say 'a Linux only household', for the money to flow I have to use macOS and iOS on some occasions. 16:08 < solidfox> it's because my work uses windows 16:08 < solidfox> and a lot of it 16:08 < solidfox> we have probably 100 PCs 16:09 < Psi-Jack> Heh, I am a Linux/macOS household. Wife uses macOS, I use Linux. Used to be 100% Linux only, and for a SHORT period of time, Linux/Windows, but then my wife's Windows became corrupted and unusable, as usual for Windows, and so got her an iMac. 16:09 < solidfox> if it's 1000 per year, that'd be 10,000 per year for every pc 16:10 < solidfox> I'd probably have to get a real job working with some linux technology 16:10 < solidfox> Psi-Jack, ah nice. 16:11 < JimBuntu> Psi-Jack, wife was getting a new laptop, her first question to me was 'Can we put Linux on it?' Her decision was completely based on our ability to find others reporting fully functional installations. 16:11 < moniker-> is linux antivirus in its own right? 16:11 < solidfox> I'm so close to being linux only, but I need windows to connect to a special vpn for work 16:11 < moniker-> i mean it protects you does it not 16:11 < solidfox> moniker-, I believe that antivirus fives a false sense of security 16:11 < Psi-Jack> JimBuntu: Nice. hehe. My wife has learned her lesson with Windows, thanks to me. ":) 16:11 < solidfox> gives* 16:12 < moniker-> no i mean like, linux have such a system of software distribution that is very resistant of viruses 16:12 < ayecee> i imagine she kept hearing this whining noise every time she was using windows. 16:12 < moniker-> so figuratively it is a sort of antivirus 16:12 < moniker-> s/of/to 16:12 < JimBuntu> moniker-, no, not really. 16:12 < Psi-Jack> moniker-: Not so much "resistant", but designed securely, and fixable when vulnerabilities are found. 16:12 < revel> moniker-: No. You can do some kernel hardening and use SELinux, but it doesn't actively detect malware. 16:12 < moniker-> well yes that's what i meant 16:12 < solidfox> moniker-, gentoo linux allows users to download source code over a plain text connection, built, install, and execute 16:13 < Psi-Jack> Currently there are 0 viruses functional for Linux today. 16:13 < sigmet> seriously? 16:13 < moniker-> how often do you use apt-get to install malicious software? 16:13 < sigmet> wow 16:13 < revel> solidfox: "plain text"? 16:13 < Psi-Jack> sigmet: Seriously. 16:13 < solidfox> revel, http 16:13 < moniker-> there is something virus resistant about it 16:13 < revel> solidfox: There's checksums. 16:13 < moniker-> not the command itself just the ecosystem design 16:13 < solidfox> revel, the checksum is sent plain text too 16:13 < solidfox> revel, so if you've heard of deep packet inspection 16:14 < moniker-> what i mean by virus is malware ofc 16:14 < solidfox> revel, a malicious person could replace some code as well as the checksum 16:14 < revel> solidfox: There are TLS mirrors for both the Portage tree and the distfiles. 16:14 < kurahaupo> Psi-Jack: mutter root-kit mumble 16:14 < Psi-Jack> moniker-: It's just in simplicity, the design concept. You know how a CPU has 3 rings? Well, Linux has it's own rings around that. 16:14 < moniker-> yes and how often that happened in your experience or you heard of solidfox 16:14 < Psi-Jack> kurahaupo: Wut? 16:14 < solidfox> moniker-, maybe never 16:15 < moniker-> there you go 16:15 < moniker-> for example how often do you just go online and download application 16:15 < moniker-> and that is these days primary way of spreading malware 16:15 < Psi-Jack> moniker-: Also "of course" not "ofc" for future self corrections. Yes it matters. 16:15 < kurahaupo> Psi-Jack: insmod will pass code from ring 3 to ring 0 16:15 < moniker-> what's wrong with ofc? 16:16 < JimBuntu> moniker-, it's short-speak 16:16 < moniker-> and? 16:16 < Psi-Jack> moniker-: It's against the rules, to be more specific. SMS-speak, short-speak, shtspk. 16:16 < moniker-> really? against the rules? 16:16 < Psi-Jack> Yes. 16:16 < solidfox> yesterday I thought shtspk meant shit speak lol 16:16 < moniker-> wow 16:16 < Psi-Jack> solidfox: it can. :) 16:17 < solidfox> moniker-, also I want to preempt you 16:17 < Psi-Jack> solidfox: I created that "shtspk", like 20 years ago, specifically intended to be vague. Is it short speak, or shit speak? Both! 16:17 < solidfox> moniker-, say "okay" and not "ok" 16:17 < Psi-Jack> ok is fine. :p 16:17 < JimBuntu> moniker-, That rule is in place to reduce confusion and aid in others (perhaps non-native English readers) being able to translate/understand 16:17 < moniker-> what about it's vs it is? 16:17 < solidfox> moniker-, say GNU's not Unix, not GNU 16:17 < Psi-Jack> it's is english, not shtspk. :p 16:17 < moniker-> ah solidfox :D 16:18 < solidfox> moniker-, I'm jk of course 16:18 < moniker-> does ofc really confuse anyone? 16:18 < solidfox> moniker-, no lol 16:18 < moniker-> now im confused 16:18 < solidfox> sorry 16:18 < solidfox> moniker-, no, (laughing out loud) 16:18 < moniker-> so lol is against the rules too ? 16:19 < Psi-Jack> moniker-: Think about it from another side, then. It's rude, lazy, and harder for even English native people to read. 16:19 < Psi-Jack> No. 16:19 < Psi-Jack> solidfox: Stop. 16:19 < solidfox> Psi-Jack, Okay. 16:19 < moniker-> ye but we've established it is not clear and cut is it 16:19 < TJ-> "OK" is a valid word 16:19 < moniker-> like example OK lol and such 16:20 < jimm> solidfox, we probably don't want that to get too ridiculous... we (the mods) are trying to have everything be more understandable... what sometimes ends up happening is people have too much to memorize 16:20 < Psi-Jack> moniker-: shtspk is things like "u" "ur" "rly" "ofc" "ty" "oic" etc. 16:21 < solidfox> don't forget lit, fam, rn, omg, and rip 16:21 < Psi-Jack> I didn't. solidfox, stop. :p 16:21 < solidfox> Psi-Jack, just giving more examples 16:21 < moniker-> do you not think it is rude to tell someone they aren't supposed to use ofc because it supposedly adds confusion 16:21 < Psi-Jack> No. 16:21 < absurdistani> i got u fam ;) 16:21 < solidfox> Psi-Jack, jimm hey we should actually come up with a list of what's not ok, and what is ok to say and put it in the rules 16:22 < Psi-Jack> I think it's rude for people to butcher the English language. 16:22 < moniker-> weird 16:22 < Psi-Jack> That's my opinion at least. :) 16:22 < jimm> "4", "2", "y", "u", "r", "mt" 16:22 < absurdistani> Psi-Jack: so, then, are American and Indian English verboten on this channel? 16:22 < moniker-> opinion is one thing, rule and application of it is another 16:23 < moniker-> you spoke of clear rules, clear prescription 16:23 < Psi-Jack> moniker-: Yep. See /topic, URL for channel website, Rules. :) 16:23 < ayecee> can you do the needful please 16:23 < solidfox> in ##programming, when I don't understand someone, you just ask them at that time to spell correctly. it's personal. not political (ie. determined by policy) 16:23 < jimm> absurdistani, please expand "u" :) 16:24 < ayecee> absyourdistani 16:25 < absurdistani> ayecee: I have this old dictionary from the 30s. Besides having a wonderfully dated listing of nations and flags, it contained that phrase "please do the needful" and "doing the needful" and various other iterations. So, at some point, that phrase was a universal English phrase. topkek. 16:25 < ayecee> nice 16:25 < solidfox> what is doing the needful? 16:26 < solidfox> cc absurdistani 16:26 < absurdistani> solidfox: to do whatever is necessary to complete a task to a pre-agreed upon satisfactory level. 16:26 < ayecee> a common turn of phrase in indian english, a request to do what we both know is necessary 16:26 < solidfox> ok that makes sense 16:26 < ayecee> oooh, that's much better. 16:26 < moniker-> im not particularly fond of language policing 16:26 < Psi-Jack> heh 16:26 < solidfox> moniker-, agreed 16:26 < Psi-Jack> moniker-: Well, you are not forced to be here. :) 16:27 < jimm> solidfox, generally, prefer full word spellings instead of abbreviations that might "rhyme" with the full word (like y and why) 16:27 < solidfox> moniker-, most channels I'm in do pretty well without this policy. 16:27 < JimBuntu> Most people are not starving. 16:27 < moniker-> but i do understand it, the argument is as always to what extent 16:28 < Psi-Jack> There is no argument. Only moderation and compliance. heh heh 16:28 < solidfox> moniker-, yeah maybe it could be a policy, but only enforced when someone is shtspking 16:28 < solidfox> a lot. 16:29 < Psi-Jack> Anwyay. Back to Linux. :) 16:29 < solidfox> moniker-, so if you said "ofc" and I understood, then there is no need to enforce at that time. 16:29 < Psi-Jack> solidfox: Stop. 16:29 < Psi-Jack> LOl 16:29 < jimm> yeah... remember that the emphasis is on allowing everyone to understand what you're saying 16:29 < absurdistani> Linguistic prescriptivism is actually inherently biased, but I understand the idea in this context isn't intended to be biased; it is instead meant to clarify meaning/context due to (1) an international audience who do not necessarily speak English well, and (2) for those who might natively speak English but when we have things like /dev/nvme0n1p1 using random abbreviations can render what would 16:29 < absurdistani> otherwise be sensible into a wall of text. 16:29 < solidfox> Psi-Jack, no u. 16:29 < solidfox> haha 16:30 < revel> Heyy, does anyone know of any comprehensive resources on Unix permissions? Since apparently setuid/gid/sticky do weird things with dirs and maybe with other filetypes like fifos/character/block files as well. 16:30 < Psi-Jack> solidfox: Bye. 16:30 < moniker-> see i don't find justification that it is about confusion what prompted you to tell me i shouldn't say ofc anymore 16:31 < moniker-> i find it was you being annoyed by me saying it 16:31 < Psi-Jack> moniker-: Personally: /I/ am. :) 16:31 < absurdistani> moniker-: actually, until it was mentioned that ofc was an abbreviation, I had no idea what you were saying... 16:32 < solidfox> absurdistani, solution "What does ofc mean?" 16:32 < moniker-> you missed the point absurdistani 16:32 < jimm> solidfoxmoniker-, sometimes it can happen that way... if there's potential for misunderstanding something you would say, maybe it would be better to reword 16:32 < solidfox> absurdistani, another solution is to ignore it. if you didn't care about what they were saying. 16:32 < moniker-> ye but there is something offensive when someone tells you you can't use particular word anymore jimm 16:33 < moniker-> i get knee jerk reaction to tell them to go fuck themselves, do you know what i mean jimm? 16:33 < solidfox> absurdistani, I tend to read everyone's messages though. 16:33 < Dominian> JimBuntu: Yeah, i hear yah.. I really should learn MAC.. lol 16:33 < Psi-Jack> moniker-: You can't say vulgarity, either. f**k, s**t, b***h, etc. 16:33 < jimm> moniker-, heh... no excessive profanity :) (and once isn't excessive) 16:34 < absurdistani> true, I already stated that I disagree with Psi-Jack in general (like vehemently disagree with prescriptivism to the point I was almost tossed from a language conference once), but I do understand his point, and I am willing to concede that in this arena it would be best to be precise. 16:34 < jimm> but, once is enough for us to mention :) 16:34 < solidfox> the profanity rule makes sense 16:34 < solidfox> #gentoo has that rule too. sometimes I forget it 16:34 < solidfox> :( 16:34 < absurdistani> solidfox: easy thing to forget when using gentoo XD 16:34 < Psi-Jack> Selective agreement with moderation is funny. LOL 16:35 < solidfox> absurdistani, LOL yeah really 16:35 < Psi-Jack> Oh, this is okay, but not that! 16:36 < absurdistani> Psi-Jack: well, linguistic prescriptivism in our day-to-day speech is openly saying that the way one group speaks is "correct" and another is not when all speech that communicates the intended meaning is actually correct and effective. 16:36 < Psi-Jack> You know what I tell people about linguistics? Go back to school, if you can't spell it like it's actually supposed to be spelled. 16:36 < absurdistani> Psi-Jack: here, a ubiquitous use of English "internet-isms" or memetic archetypes would render all communication generally ineffective for a subset of the community 16:37 < Psi-Jack> End of story. Now, back to your previously scheduled Linux discussions. :) 16:37 < jimm> moniker-, but it's literally true: mods will kick you out if you start insisting on using shtspk stuff (in that case, there would be an element of you testing the mods, and the mods getting pissed, but that's not the total of the purpose for the policy) 16:38 < moniker-> maybe i don't care about such channel then 16:38 < solidfox> Psi-Jack, I can relate to you somewhat. 16:38 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: This is pretty nice though, work desktop + work laptop, current borg backup size for daily backups: 31GB 16:38 < Psi-Jack> For 30 days. :) 16:38 < jimm> moniker-, that part is for you to decide 16:39 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: Yeah.. I'll look at it again at some point 16:39 < solidfox> Psi-Jack, I work with people that sometimes spell things wrong, and sometimes don't. I'm not sure if they're using spell-check or if they're being lazy when they get it wrong. But they claim to not know how to spell well. 16:39 < solidfox> Psi-Jack, they didn't go to school as a kid. 16:39 < pepsi_power> hello I am having a weird issue after calibrating my monitor. I am getting weird/incorrect colors in this image (screenshot from gwenview with wrong colors: https://i.imgur.com/RHLmy3l.jpg) and (actual image: https://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/station/crew-24/hires/iss024e016042.jpg). This isn't specific to this image obviously. 16:39 < moniker-> i mean we've already established it is not clear and cut rule and should have some leniency 16:39 < solidfox> Psi-Jack, it can be frustrating 16:39 < solidfox> or annoying i suppose. 16:39 < Psi-Jack> solidfox: End of story, Back to Linux. 16:40 < solidfox> The End. 16:40 < solidfox> lol 16:40 < Psi-Jack> moniker-: ^ You too. 16:40 < moniker-> sensibility in approach and how to deal with it will be a mark of how catalyst like you are jimm 16:40 < jimm> moniker-, should you choose to stay, you'll see how things work out 16:41 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: I'm also looking at Duplicati 16:41 < moniker-> jimm what about not using punctuation? 16:41 < Psi-Jack> Duplicati is pretty decent, from what I evaluated. 16:41 < pepsi_power> does anyone know what could possibly be the issue here? 16:41 < Psi-Jack> moniker-: Do you want to look uneducated? 16:42 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: It appears to be nice and supports B2 16:42 < moniker-> maybe that's not how i view it Psi-Jack nor it might be as high on my priority list as it is on yours 16:42 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: It is fairly nice, yes. 16:43 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: I might havea to set it up at home and test it. 16:43 < moniker-> but your prescriptivism and overly enthusiastic narrowed interpretation of rules is quite repulsive Psi-Jack 16:44 < Dominian> good.. it does deduplication 16:44 < Psi-Jack> Yes it does. :) 16:45 < Psi-Jack> I had considered it for my wife's computer as well. 16:45 < absurdistani> moniker-: nah, I just imagine we could all start using English spellings for everything... he'd say we're supposed to go back to school XD 16:45 < Psi-Jack> moniker-: Linux. 16:45 < moniker-> the question still stands regarding punctuation 16:45 < solidfox> moniker-, give it a rest. 16:45 < Psi-Jack> moniker-: Linux! 16:45 < solidfox> moniker-, it's not that important. 16:45 < moniker-> lol 16:46 < jimm> moniker-, there's no policy that I know of... I might suggest something if I see something I really don"t understand (like "oh, are you saying "this" or "that"", and "oh, if it's that, you might want to add a comma right he,re")... so if -you- don't understand something, you can ask the person to clarify... or if you're speaking, and you're not sure if you're understood, you can ask to see if you're being clear 16:46 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: now the real question, can I make this work on openSUSE 16:46 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Yes. 16:46 < jimm> -those- things are -not- policy, but are very good ways of communicating 16:46 < Dominian> ah.. i can grab the fedora/redhat rpm 16:47 < moniker-> it kills the style 16:48 < solidfox> from my experience, openSUSE is harder than gentoo linux. 16:48 < Dominian> nah 16:48 < solidfox> it's because everything in gentoo is documented to the extreme. 16:49 < solidfox> and there are 1000 users in their support channel 16:49 < Psi-Jack> openSUSE, harder than Gentoo? wut wut? 16:50 < Dominian> it's one of the easiest I've ever used 16:50 < Dominian> and I've used just about all of them lol 16:50 < moniker-> always had impression that linux users are overly sensitive bunch lol 16:50 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: it does have some pretty harsh defaults though. Like open files limits on openSUSE was insanely low. 16:50 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: I haven't hit that limit 16:50 < solidfox> well. my codecs never worked. my sound kept doing buggy things (openSUSE comes with pulse audio) I couldn't get my function keys to work etc. 16:50 < Dominian> lol 16:51 < jimm> well he's saying that what makes it harder is that there's not as much documentation that talks about the details 16:51 < ananke> documentation availability and perceived difficulty level are barely related 16:51 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Do you use Chrome, or Firefox? 16:51 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: both 16:51 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: but! 16:51 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Then you would easily hit that limit. 16:51 < absurdistani> solidfox: pulse going buggy things? you're just not holding it right. lol. 16:51 < solidfox> at one point, I was watching porn with my headphones. and it was also coming out of the speakers too, and I didn't realize for a couple minutes 16:51 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: I'm not on my server much on the GUI 16:51 < dgurney> the opensuse installer is really convoluted imo 16:51 < Psi-Jack> Ahhhh 16:51 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Yes... That's different. :) 16:51 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: openSUSE is my server at the moment 16:51 < Dominian> :) 16:51 < ananke> solidfox: that's just karma 16:51 < solidfox> ananke, lol ok. 16:52 < savethegibbons> solidfox: I get what you mean. Sometimes you can get an overly complex system and unscrewing it is more of an annoyance than just starting from scratch and going for simple 16:52 < Dominian> solidfox: There are a lot of fixes in the third party repos 16:52 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: openSUSE desktop, LEAP install fresh, the openfiles limit per user is insanely low, so low that just opening a browser and using it for a few hours will hit the limit and cause issues. Why they set it so low... Ugh.. 16:52 < savethegibbons> The big desktop environments are too complicated for their own good 16:52 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: what issues? 16:52 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: Just curious, becauzse my daughter has used that box for minecraft/youtube at the same time for hours and never had a problem 16:53 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Being unable to do anything. Things crashing. Things stalling because they can't open file descriptors. 16:53 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Minecraft doesn't open a lot of files, though. :) 16:53 < ananke> Psi-Jack: seems they went a bit off the rails with the default limits on both SLES12 & opensuse. we saw similar stuff on SLES 16:53 < Psi-Jack> A browser opens a LOT. :) 16:53 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: that might've been one of the reasons her Minecraft would lock 16:53 < ananke> and we were dealing with vendor supported machine that's designed to have a lot of things open at the same time (9TB ram, etc) 16:54 < Dominian> and I'd have to go into the command line and kill it and the web browser 16:54 < Psi-Jack> Heh 16:54 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Nah,. Java/ 16:54 < Dominian> yep 16:54 < absurdistani> savethegibbons: I mean, I've been saying that for more than a decade about various things in the Linux world becoming non-*nix and going the Winders route. Now, I am fairly certain, I am just a crazy guy screaming in a desert. 16:54 < swift110> Y'all should check out Solus 16:54 < Dominian> wtf 16:54 < Dominian> open files: 1024 16:55 < Dominian> lolol 16:55 < Dominian> Yeah that's.. REALLY low 16:55 < moniker-> absurdistani like what to be more windows like? 16:55 < ananke> not sure who at SUSE decided that was a good idea for any normal workload 16:55 < Dominian> no kidding 16:55 < Dominian> Probably need to bump that up to like 8000 or so 16:56 < solidfox> savethegibbons, I used KDE on gentoo as well 16:56 < savethegibbons> Better than Gnome :p 16:57 < Dominian> ahhh soft limit is 1024 16:57 < Dominian> hard limit is 4096 16:57 < absurdistani> moniker-: well, massive object oriented projects that have no clear unified design princples? a massive multi-purpose project that replaces many independent tools of the system? a complex and varied framework that redirects audio i/o multiple times before actually doing its job? 16:57 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Yeah, right!? 16:57 < Dominian> that's insane 16:57 < moniker-> kk 16:57 < Psi-Jack> EVERYONE that's ever used openSUSE considers that insane, especially for a desktop. :) 16:58 < moniker-> ups sorry kk means okay 16:58 < moniker-> habbit 16:58 < ananke> absurdistani: audio is not the best example of selling the idea of 'many independent tools'. historically, audio has been a major pain on linux 16:58 < solidfox> did you just say "ups" lol 16:58 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: no shit 16:58 < solidfox> I've never seen that one before 16:59 < absurdistani> ananke: nah, oss is just fine. ppl abandoned it because it couldn't handle multiple streams, but it does now and has for years. just poettering doesn't like UNIX 16:59 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: guess it's time to edit /etc/security/limits.conf and add a * soft and * hard entry 16:59 < moniker-> umm, after looking ups should have been oops 16:59 < post-factum> and rabbit instead of habbit 16:59 < moniker-> but im not english native so often i mispell 16:59 < rouji> Psi-Jack: dunno about leap, but I've not had that problem with standard tumbleweed 16:59 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: hehe 17:00 < solidfox> absurdistani, what does poettering like? 17:00 < solidfox> absurdistani, hopefully not windows. 17:00 < Psi-Jack> moniker-: My wife isn't native English. like most situations, you learn the proper spelling first. I find people making that excuse a lot, but debunk it with facts. :) 17:00 < Dominian> 64000 outta cut it 17:00 < absurdistani> solidfox: he likes the operating system he is creating ;) 17:00 < solidfox> absurdistani, what is he creating? 17:00 < jantar-tobak> poettering likes making systemd bigger 17:00 < savethegibbons> Poetternix 17:00 < absurdistani> solidfox: he openly called traditional unix systems "childrens tinker toys" tho 17:00 < moniker-> how do you debunk habbit with facts? o_O 17:00 < absurdistani> solidfox: Red Hat OS 17:01 < solidfox> ahh ok 17:01 < Dominian> thereeeee we go 17:01 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: thanks for the tip : 17:01 < Dominian> :) 17:01 < Dominian> never realiaed they set that so low 17:01 < ananke> absurdistani: except we've also had ALSA, proprietary versions of OSS, etc 17:01 < Dominian> probably should reboot this box now that I made that change 17:02 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: see if 'performance' picks up on some stuff I noticed slow downs in lol 17:02 < Psi-Jack> heh 17:02 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: I did. Massively, as a desktop user. :) 17:02 < absurdistani> ananke: I'm aware. We also had KDE instead of CDE, but then QT went non-completely GPL compliant for a moment and GNOME was created, and GNOME has viral licensing so XFCE... then QT went FOSS again, and yet... GNOME continued. 17:02 < savethegibbons> I don't know what to think of Pulseaudio anymore. It kinda works now, at least 17:02 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: Well, I do run lightdm 17:03 < Dominian> glad I caught that before I installed duplicati 17:03 < Dominian> well glad YOU informed me and caught it 17:03 < Psi-Jack> hehehe 17:04 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, Duplicati would hurt you BADLY. :) 17:04 < TheDcoder> Hello guys, I have two computers connected via Ethernet, what is the fastest way to transfer a lot of files? 17:04 < absurdistani> and what's with the naming? GNOME isn't really the "GNU Network Object Model Environment" anymore, and XFCE is no longer the "X Forms Common Environment" either, and none of these even remotely resemble CDE anymore. 17:04 < absurdistani> oh well. 17:04 < JimBuntu> TheDcoder, flash drive 17:05 < TheDcoder> not really networking... and there are a lot of files 17:05 < savethegibbons> I'd just use rsync I guess 17:06 < TheDcoder> That is the best option I have in consideration at the moment 17:06 < solidfox> TheDcoder, you might be able to set the IP addresses manually and then yeah, just transfer with some file transfer program such as rsync 17:06 < solidfox> I'm more used to plain sftp 17:07 < TheDcoder> I am used to sftp or ftp too but I want to it in the fastest way possible... I have a lot of files and some large ones too 17:07 < TheDcoder> Is samba an option? 17:07 < absurdistani> TheDcoder: netcat 17:07 < JimBuntu> TheDcoder, SCP is faster than SFTP, due to SFTP's acking the packets more 17:07 < TheDcoder> now that is really low level absurdistani 17:08 < absurdistani> TheDcoder: you said fastest possible. 17:08 < TheDcoder> Ah yes, that too, I use scp when available 17:08 < absurdistani> TheDcoder: netcat is faster. 17:08 < savethegibbons> rsync might end up faster if you have anything that interrupts it 17:08 < hendrix> absurdistani: and KDE isn't... Kool DE anymore? :p 17:08 < TheDcoder> okay... a little wild but I may try it... 17:08 < absurdistani> Sender: tar -cvf - | nc 2222 -q 5; Receiver: iptables --flush; nc -lp 2222 -q 5 | tar -xvf - 17:09 < TheDcoder> tar adds over head, doesn't it? 17:09 < absurdistani> drop the v if you have an issue with screen printing slowing things down 17:10 < TheDcoder> well I think rsync is the best option now 17:10 < absurdistani> tar won't decrease speed enough to matter as there's no compression being employed 17:10 < solidfox> tar is screaming-fast when copying a lot of files 17:10 < solidfox> faster than cp even 17:11 < JimBuntu> tar is superfact, netcat is superfast 17:11 < JimBuntu> sending a single stream is faster than a bunch of individual files 17:11 < absurdistani> hendrix: well, if it were kool it would be used more right? 17:12 < solidfox> mhm. I just wonder if the extraction cancels that out jim 17:12 < solidfox> JimBuntu, 17:13 < absurdistani> solidfox: receiving will be more limited by write speed than by extraction speed 17:13 < JimBuntu> solidfox, I am unsure. it may. it's worth the filename preservation/etc imo 17:13 < solidfox> ah 17:15 < DrunkRhino> Ok, so if my understanding of all this is right theoretically this setup should work no? Netbook & Pi 2 (hopefully to be 3 soon), running LightDM + XDMCP, logging into the Pi from the netbook, and using Xephyr to pipe video from the netbook (x64 widevine capable) locally while the rest of the chrome for the DE&WM run on the pi 17:16 < chriys> morning 17:16 < chriys> I have certbot on centos 7 using apache but for some reason my certificate isn't renewing 17:16 < moniker-> Psi-Jack i just checked website from topic and channel rules 17:17 < Psi-Jack> chriys: #letsencrypt 17:17 < moniker-> did you miss the "Don’t discuss channel policy in the channel. Do it by PM or take it up in ##Linux-OPs."? 17:17 < chriys> thanks Psi-Jack 17:19 < absurdistani> chriys: did you check the cert itself? 17:20 < moniker-> funny how you cherry picked one rule and was very adamant about enforcing it while ignoring others 17:20 < absurdistani> openssl x509 -text -noout -in /usr/local/etc/letsencrypt/live/sitename.com/cert.pem ? 17:20 < chriys> absurdistani: well the certificat has just expired. last time I remember configuring certbot to renew it automatically 17:20 < FRWB_> is there a way to see what all was done on a particular ssh session in last? 17:21 < absurdistani> chriys: okay, so you'd want to run something like: certbot renew --post-hook "systemctl restart nginx" 17:21 < absurdistani> chriys: then check the log or screen error messages if any, and then see if it touched the cert 17:22 < absurdistani> chriys: also, quite important, make sure you have the latest certbot utils 17:23 < chriys> absurdistani: I got this error Attempting to renew cert (acct.ca) from /etc/letsencrypt/renewal/acct.ca.conf produced an unexpected error: Error while running apachectl graceful. 17:23 < chriys> Job for httpd.service invalid. . Skipping. All renewal attempts failed. The following certs could not be renewed: name of certs.... 17:23 < absurdistani> chriys: ah, what do you see in journalctl -u httpd 17:25 < chriys> absurdistani: here's today's journal https://paste.laravel.io/a6f13a07-cc76-4098-a75d-2497fad0816b 17:27 < absurdistani> chriys: So, try apache2ctl configtest 17:27 < V7> Is it possible to get why after some amount of time Super key stops calling start menu ? 17:28 < chriys> absurdistani: AH00558: httpd: Could not reliably determine the server's fully qualified domain name, using server-1.localdomain. Set the 'ServerName' directive globally to suppress this message Syntax OK 17:28 < Psi-Jack> chriys: Your paste is cut off. 17:29 < Psi-Jack> Don't use less to copy/paste, use cat and copy the resulting output. 17:29 < Psi-Jack> This prevents word-wrapping from being cut off as demonstrated here. 17:30 < chriys> Psi-Jack: that's all I can see on my screen 17:31 < Psi-Jack> chriys: Like I said.. Word-wrap. 17:32 < Psi-Jack> Is that from journalctl or a log file? 17:32 < chriys> Psi-Jack: from running the command apacectl configtest 17:33 < Psi-Jack> Oh,. That's... A log.. 17:33 < Psi-Jack> You said that was today's journal. 17:34 < chriys> yeah all the logs I showed add dated apr 12 if I'm not mistaking 17:34 < Psi-Jack> Which is today. 17:34 < dive> Hi. Is there a way of finding the age of a HDD? smartctl doesn't show anything for age that I can see. 17:34 < ayecee> dive: no 17:35 < ozymandias> hours running is what matters, anyway 17:35 < ozymandias> and thats in smart 17:35 < ayecee> unless there's a label with the manufacture date on the drive surface 17:36 < Psi-Jack> Mmm. SNI. So it has to shut down your apache server, run it's own standalone, then bring apache back up. ewww... 17:36 < Psi-Jack> chriys: Where is your DNS being hosted at? 17:36 < dive> The reason that I ask is that I bought a new WD Blue for my server a couple of months ago and both iostat and /proc/diskstats are shown 300G+ writes on sda, 192G+ on / which is pretty weird. 17:36 < chriys> Psi-Jack: ovh I believe 17:36 < dive> It's a server so no large file transfers or anything going on. 17:37 < ozymandias> dive its likely remanufactured or something stupid 17:37 < dive> It was bought new from Amazon. 17:37 < ayecee> those stats are from the running system, not the drive itself 17:37 < dive> Ah 17:37 < Psi-Jack> chriys: I'd like to recommend acme.sh as an alternative to certbot, which supports ACME v2 API, and DNS API with OVH (and many others), and thus also supports Wildcard certs if you choose to use it. 17:38 < ayecee> your system has done that many writes in a few months, which doesn't sound extreme. 17:38 < chriys> Psi-Jack: well ok... but allow me another question. 17:38 < chriys> is there a reason why apache complaings about localdomain yet I can't find it in httpd.conf ? 17:38 < dive> Well in comparison my laptop HDD bought last year has 71G. my ~ 5 year old backup drive has 131G. 17:39 < ayecee> since the last boot 17:39 < dive> ayecee, it's a server. No big transfers going on. 17:39 < Psi-Jack> chriys: localdomain is invalid. :) 17:39 < Psi-Jack> chriys: it's in your system's own hostname. 17:39 < ayecee> dive: those are stats since the last boot, not for the lifetime of the drive. 17:39 < Psi-Jack> chriys: And likely /etc/hosts 17:40 < dive> ayecee, there is no way on earth that I have written 300G since I booted it last week. 17:40 < dive> It's a web server. 17:40 < ayecee> you say that, but the stats say otherwise 17:40 < JimBuntu> dive, I'm at 122TB 17:41 < ayecee> keep in mind that that includes updating file access times and writing log files. 17:41 < dive> hmm 17:42 < chriys> Psi-Jack: yeah Indeed. But I can't explain why it's there. 127.0.0.1 server-1.localdomain server-1 17:42 < Psi-Jack> Thats why. 17:42 < dive> Well there are not 300Gs of logs. And / only gets affected by package upgrades etc. 17:42 < Psi-Jack> You have not properly configured your server. 17:42 < ayecee> exhibit A 17:42 < ozymandias> dive, is it a CoW filesystem? 17:42 < Psi-Jack> ozymandias: Name 1 CoW filesystem. 17:43 < ayecee> btrfs 17:43 < dive> I don't know what CoW is. It's ext4. 17:43 < Psi-Jack> ozymandias: One that ayecee didn't name, 17:43 < ayecee> heh 17:43 < ozymandias> zfs, btrfs, 17:43 < ayecee> i don't think zfs is cow 17:43 < Psi-Jack> ZFS is not. 17:43 < chriys> Psi-Jack: ok, how do I know if that server-1 is important ? 17:43 < ozymandias> it can 17:43 < Psi-Jack> No, it does something different from CoW. 17:44 < ayecee> the intent log thing is pretty cool 17:44 < Psi-Jack> So, zfs is invalid. :) 17:44 < ozymandias> "Not only does ZFS use the COW model, so does Btrfs, NILFS, WAFL and the new Microsoft filesystem ReFS. Many virtualization technologies use COW for storing VM images, such as Qemu. COW filesystems are the future of data storage. We'll discuss snapshots in much more intimate detail at a later post, and how the COW model plays into that." 17:44 < ozymandias> https://pthree.org/2012/12/14/zfs-administration-part-ix-copy-on-write/ 17:44 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm 17:44 < ozymandias> older link, but proves that at one point zfs had it at least 17:45 < ayecee> it's an older link, sir, but it checks out 17:45 < Psi-Jack> I stand corrected then. :) 17:45 < Psi-Jack> ayecee: heh. Nice Star Wars reference. 17:45 < ozymandias> only reason I know it off the top of my head is that i recall someone trying to use CoW + ZFS to overcome performance hits of shingled drives 17:47 < eightyeight> i should update that thread to the latest ZoL release 17:48 < dive> ayecee, thanks for that info. 17:48 < eightyeight> it is a bit dated 17:48 < ayecee> :) 18:00 < krzee> hey TJ- im sorry i had to go suddenly last time, i didnt know i was about to be sent to close the work day from home 18:00 < krzee> if you find time today, im here working for at least a nice 6-8 of hours 18:21 < master2> #python 18:21 < krzee> #linux 18:21 < jimm> #hmm? 18:22 < ayecee> #wat 18:23 < jimm> master2, #python has a block of those not logged into their nickserv acct; you seem to be logged in 18:26 < jimm> krzee, TJ-'s client is here, dunno if he's away or not... also, if you have questions you could pose them here 18:29 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: testing duplicati now 18:29 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: interesting that it uses mono 18:29 < Psi-Jack> Yeah 18:30 < krzee> thank you jimm, indeed i do... was just hoping he might be free since i know he understood what was wrong and i feel like we were getting pretty close, then i had to run home from work to close up work from home (i had no choice :( ) 18:30 < Psi-Jack> Makes it cross Payson 18:30 < Psi-Jack> Platform 18:30 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: yeah I've been seeing mono used a lot lately 18:30 < Dominian> Couchpotato does the same thing 18:30 < Psi-Jack> Mono is getting actually good now that it's totally open. 18:31 < Dominian> yep 18:31 < Dominian> and it's not eating the ram and cpu 18:31 < Dominian> lol 18:31 < krzee> my problem is coming when i try to clone a sd card which has multiple partitions on it (its a raspian raspi card) all cards involved are sandisk ultra UHS-I 8gb, i also have a few more of the identical chips still in packaging 18:31 < Psi-Jack> Yeah. Memory management has vastly improves. 18:31 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: thing is.. with crashplan, I think my total backup to them is like.. 500+GB.. so this first backup wo my external nas will be interesting 18:31 < krzee> im able to mount the image locally loopdev and it fsck's fine 18:32 < Psi-Jack> Heh 18:32 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: ther's only 580GB on that small NAS 18:32 < Dominian> ahh nice.. it stopped just short of 400GB 18:32 < krzee> but when i write the image to the chip it doesnt mount and cant fsck 18:33 < Psi-Jack> Chop? 18:33 < Psi-Jack> Ugh dern 'autocorrect' 18:35 < Dominian> ahh.. it prepares the backups in /tmp 18:35 < Dominian> fsck 18:35 < Psi-Jack> krzee: I bet you mean cards. Not chips. 18:36 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: hah. Tmpfs? 18:36 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: it's going to /tmp 18:36 < Dominian> which is on my / drive and doesn't have that much space lol 18:36 < JimBuntu> krzee, Please post the command you are using to get your image onto the sd cards 18:37 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: fixing the /tmp redirect right now 18:38 < JimBuntu> krzee, might as well show the command you used to create the image too. 18:39 < Psi-Jack> JimBuntu: yeah agreed 18:39 < jimm> krzee, ok, good enough 18:39 < krzee> JimBuntu: # dd if=marino.bin of=/dev/mmcblk0 bs=4M; sync i made the image with if and of reversed 18:40 < krzee> this is an internal sd reader, part of my dell latitude e7240 18:42 < JimBuntu> krzee, I don't immediately see anything that should be an issue, when using bs I think you need to make sure the total target size is evenly divisible, but I wouldn't expect that to prevent boot from starting 18:42 < JimBuntu> krzee, You are able to mount the individual partitions from within that bin, right? 18:44 < krzee> JimBuntu: yes, using cool command that TJ- had given me i was able to test that and even was able to fsck the partitions in the bin 18:44 < krzee> i dont remember the command and dont have it in my HISTFLE =[ 18:45 < JimBuntu> Are you trying to mount the SD card on the same system used to create it before you try to boot from it? 18:46 < krzee> JimBuntu: no, im not trying to do this on the machine that boots from it. i removed the chip from the pi and am dealing with it on my linux laptop which uses its harddrives not the chip 18:47 < krzee> but i am indeed creating the image and writing it to another chip on the same laptop 18:48 < JimBuntu> krzee, Ok, I think I understand the issue and I don't see any issue with the logic or the commands being used. 18:49 < krzee> hmmmmmm i wonder if rebooting helped for some WEIRD reason, it might be working now 18:49 < krzee> lemme try to boot before we continue 18:49 < JimBuntu> It will take time, but I would dd the result card into marino-unknown.bin and diff the two .bin files. 18:51 < JimBuntu> Someone would benefit from an SSD and tighter/better init scripts if reboot takes this long 18:52 < ayecee> anyone we'd know? 18:52 < JimBuntu> Yeah, krzee 18:52 < ayecee> ah, i remember that guy 18:53 < ayecee> rip 19:00 < krzee> LOL 19:00 < NGC3982> im alive! 19:00 < NGC3982> oh 19:00 < krzee> sorry im slow, work forces me to do other things in between 19:03 < krzee> im making a new image of the original card, i fear i may have dirtied the fs while it was in the image, going to try some stuff as i got further than before since rebooting my laptop between attempts 19:06 < JimBuntu> krzee, understood. Glad you are getting further 19:06 < krzee> thank you, me too! 19:09 < DrunkRhino> Any idea why a command (or series of them), would throw an error when parsed with $(func) or passing the output with |, but when escaped with backticks, works perfectly fine? 19:10 < krzee> DrunkRhino: wanna post an example script in the pastebin from /topic ? 19:10 < arooni> is there a vim 'nerd tree' like program for the command line that lets me collapse directories .. i.e. tree but maybe collapseable with the mouse 19:11 < arooni> i..e a command line file browser with mouse support? 19:11 < DrunkRhino> krzee, it's a simple one-liner really. the bit that I was trying to pass was the output of "pacman -Qdt | sed s/" .*"// | tr "\n" " "" to "pacman -Rsc". 19:12 < DrunkRhino> backticks work, $(func) actually does seem to work, but not when surrounded by quotes, and | never really seemed to do it. 19:12 < TJ-> krzee: I'm around again now 19:12 < o|0o^|> nerd tree is for nerds, i like vim's built in file browser (netrw?) 19:12 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: think I figureed it out.. Need to tell the backupset to be smaller files before it moves it.. like 10GB per archive 19:13 < krzee> TJ-: i MIGHT have fixed the problem with a simple reboot of my laptop, will let you know if indeed it's fixed soon =] 19:13 < flying_sausages> hey guys, I've got some questions about mmcli, modemmanager and getting internet up and running with a PPP Iridium satellit, where's the best place to get support 19:13 < flying_sausages> ? 19:13 < o|0o^|> suports mouse but does not collapse / xpand 19:13 < DrunkRhino> flying_sausages, might want to try ##networking I'd guess? 19:13 < TJ-> krzee: I hate to think what kind of hiccup could cause the issue you had then! 19:14 < TJ-> krzee: I only closed the browser tabs with all the pastebins this morning too 19:14 < flying_sausages> cheers DrunkRhino 19:14 < krzee> we'll know after my chip takes another year to write to (good sign, it was much faster writing before!) 19:15 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Ahh nice. :) 19:15 < Psi-Jack> Heh. TLS 1.3 is finalized, finally. 19:15 < Psi-Jack> Yay! :) 19:16 < krzee> DrunkRhino: damn i dont have pacman, but maybe pacman eexpects 1 entry at a time and you just gotta wrap it in a while? like while read -r whatever ; do ... done < <(pacman -Qdt | sed s/" .*"// | tr "\n" " ") 19:18 < DrunkRhino> krzee, it definitely takes more than one at once, I'm just not sure why -Rsc `-Qdt | sed| tr` and $(-Qdt | sed | tr) work, but surrounding the second with quotes thows an error, as does trying to do -Qdt | sed | tr | -Rsc 19:20 < krzee> DrunkRhino: if you can reproduce without pacman (like with standard tools that i'll also have) then i can help, if its pacman specific you may wanna just try wrapping it unless theres an advantage to getting it to process everything in 1 shot 19:21 < DrunkRhino> krzee, well, pacman is the standard package manager for arch so... 19:21 < Psi-Jack> What about the ghosts? 19:21 < krzee> right, but i dont have arch, so if the problem is only with pacman i cant help 19:21 < DrunkRhino> But like I said, it seems to work now. Just throwing a couple wierd curveballs at me. 19:22 * Psi-Jack throws a diagonal ball at DrunkRhino. 19:22 < krzee> but if you can make other commands exhibit the same behavior i can help it go away 19:22 < krzee> (commands i have) 19:22 < krzee> otherwise im sure someone else here uses arch =] 19:23 < DrunkRhino> krzee, I'm more just trying to figure out why `func`, $(func), "$(func)" and that last sequence of pipes produce two separate sets of results. 19:24 * DrunkRhino shrugs 19:25 < Psi-Jack> Yay. My patch got applied to pacman. :) 19:25 < krzee> wanna run all 3 with set -x and show me the pastebin? 19:25 < JimBuntu> $(func) will attempt to run the output of func. "$(func)" will return to you the string output of func 19:27 < krzee> ya jim is right ^ 19:34 < lowin> I think something in kernel is using a lot of memory. adding individual process memory usage in task manager barely accounts for 1GB of ram usage. yet 3.5GB of ram is being used. How can I catch the problem? 19:35 < Sonolin> could just be buffered/cached, free -h shows the free memory with those taken into account 19:35 < lowin> It's not 19:35 < lowin> It really is used 19:35 < Sonolin> oh, strange 19:35 < Sonolin> tmpfs ? 19:36 < lowin> that may be it. lemme check 19:37 < lowin> That's not it either 19:37 < DrunkRhino> JimBuntu, so I've just learned, and looks like it'll all be passed as one arg if I enclosed it in quotes (hence the error) 19:37 < lowin> I should say things go back to normal when I reboor. it goes up like this after a few hours 19:37 < DrunkRhino> Still learning my way around the command line heh 19:42 < krzee> TJ-: well damn bro, all i needed was a reboot 19:42 < JimBuntu> DrunkRhino, no worries, only a select few didn't have to learn commands... because they wrote them :-) 19:42 < krzee> TJ-: now my output image is 8gb and it copies right over, and no issues booting from it 19:43 < krzee> WEIRD, but noooo probblem i can handle rebooting before the very rare writing of this image 19:43 < krzee> thank you so much for spending so much of your time helping me with this the other day =] 19:43 < Psi-Jack> DrunkRhino: What? You're using Arch and still essentially a newbie? 19:43 < krzee> its very appreciated 19:43 * Psi-Jack shakes his finger at DrunkRhino shamefully. 19:44 < krzee> maybe one day you'll want help with openvpn, come find me if that day comes! 19:44 < Psi-Jack> krzee: But, I'll be here. :) 19:44 < DrunkRhino> Psi-Jack, not exactly a newb, I can hack things together well enough, but this is all still for home use, so I'm not usually in the command line except for ssh and package management. 19:44 < TJ-> krzee: very weird! 19:44 < TJ-> krzee: i wonder if unloading/reloading the mmc driver might have fixed it too! 19:45 < krzee> TJ-: well if i run into it again i'll let you know! 19:45 < Psi-Jack> DrunkRhino: Effectively: Newb. 19:45 < krzee> although im not sure that'll happen any time soon 19:46 < TJ-> krzee: at least it was an easy fix. I'll note this one though, must have been some deeper kernel issue. What is the kernel version (uname -a) 19:46 < krzee> Linux smalllaptop 4.13.0-38-generic #43~16.04.1-Ubuntu SMP Wed Mar 14 17:48:43 UTC 2018 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux 19:46 < krzee> (actually running mint) 19:46 < DrunkRhino> Psi-Jack, true. Trying to get my hands dirty and set these things up more. Also, I'm sure zsh and grml's default configs for it have coddled me somewhat heh. 19:47 < Psi-Jack> They haven't. 19:48 < TJ-> krzee: so a recent supported kernel then. I'll keep an eye open for similar reports 19:48 < Psi-Jack> DrunkRhino: I mean, I use Arch myself these days. But, I can't even recommend it for others to use, because, well, it's not user friendly at all. It's not newbie friendly for sure. It's not standard in any way in comparison to others. Various reasons. :) 19:50 < Psi-Jack> And sometimes, the silliest bugs, and pointing blame in the wrong direction, like with pacman using scdaemon because the pacman devs thought it was a gnupg bug, when in fact, that was working as designed, but pacman uses gnupg not as designed. :) 19:50 < DrunkRhino> Psi-Jack, oh, I know, I've been using it for a while actually. Like I said, I can futz with PAM stacks and .confs just fine, but actual scripting and the differences between `,"$()",$(), and | aren't all that readily apparent. 19:50 < Psi-Jack> Per my simple 6-line patch fix https://git.archlinux.org/pacman.git/commit/?id=0565cebfc387be67e0daac73a4d0a312965ca1d3 19:52 < JimBuntu> DrunkRhino, Oh, | should be known as a dear friend. 19:52 < DrunkRhino> JimBuntu, oh I know, I've used it a great deal! but apparently pacman needs - to read from stdin, which I didn't know, hence the errors. 19:54 < JimBuntu> DrunkRhino, ah, yup... that one will sneak up again in the future. 19:58 < Psi-Jack> DrunkRhino: Hmmm... You know what stdin is. Congratulations, you've been promoted to a Junior. ;) 19:59 < V7> Hey all 19:59 < DrunkRhino> Psi-Jack, why thank you :p 19:59 < revel> Hey, one. 19:59 < revel> Psi-Jack: What rank am I? 19:59 < V7> Is it possible to trigger a command if any byte was sent from specific interface ? 19:59 < sauvin> There are Arch users who don't know what stdin is? :D 19:59 < ayecee> revel: "scapegoat" 20:00 < ayecee> you know just enough to have plausibly been the one who broke it :) 20:00 < revel> sauvin: Believe it or not, it's the first distro for some people. 20:00 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: sadly yes 20:00 < sauvin> Yeesh. That gotta hurt. 20:00 < DrunkRhino> No kidding 20:01 < Psi-Jack> ayecee: Good one. I like that. Scapegoat 20:06 < Psi-Jack> DrunkRhino: So what do you use for backing up? 20:06 < Psi-Jack> Grins evilly. 20:07 < DrunkRhino> Psi-Jack, got a 1T external hooked up to the router as a samba share, and Google Drive for things I need more available (like keepass databases) 20:07 < Psi-Jack> That's part of the solution 20:07 < Psi-Jack> What's the implementation? 20:09 < DrunkRhino> Mostly manual at the moment, I've been trying to figure out how I want things set up on my machines (LightDM + cinnamon/awesome -> LXDE -> (now) LDM + MATE) 20:10 < Psi-Jack> DrunkRhino: want some ideas? 20:10 < DrunkRhino> Psi-Jack, sure, can't hurt I suppose. 20:12 < DrunkRhino> Psi-Jack, just keep in mind, one's a beefy desktop, the other is a Pi 2, and the other is an 8-9 year old netbook that I've only kept around since it's x64 and therefore widevine-capable. 20:12 < Psi-Jack> borgbackup with borgmatic to the samba share. Deduplicating compressed backups. Make sure you don't have too many schedules defined like minutely and hourly. 20:12 < xse> DrunkRhino: don't know if that would help but you can do things like "pacman -S - < mylistofpackages.txt" to install all packages from a list generated using "pacman -Qqe > mylistofpackages.txt" 20:12 < velix> I like trains. 20:13 < DrunkRhino> xse, I think that'd actually work better, I'll probably do do -Qdt > list and then -Qdtt >> list and then clean it 20:13 < Psi-Jack> DrunkRhino: for recovery you could build an archiso yourself pre-installed with borgbackup 20:14 < DrunkRhino> Psi-Jack, I'll keep that in mind once I've got all the basic setup done 20:15 < Psi-Jack> Hehe good idea. It's even more impressive if you have multiple systems of the same arch and distro because the deduplicating aspect works with all of them at the same time. 20:16 < Psi-Jack> Using the same repo that is. 20:17 < DrunkRhino> Sadly the two in the same arch have wildly different capabilities :/ Going to be trying to make the Pi & Netbook play nicely with Xephyr and XDMCP to offload the DE/WM to the Pi and keep the Netbook running only the DRM blobbiness. 20:18 < V7> What's "yes" command ? 20:18 < V7> program * 20:19 < Psi-Jack> V7: man yes 20:19 < V7> Already 20:20 < Psi-Jack> Very first line explains what it is. 20:20 < jimm> try this: yes no 20:24 < Kremator> guys, is the "ip" command the new standard tool for managing nics on linux right? 20:24 < Psi-Jack> Yes 20:24 < Psi-Jack> IPs, routes, and such anyway. 20:25 < Kremator> therefore, i can run scripts with it and run it in servers? it does work/comes bundled with major distros? 20:25 < Psi-Jack> It's the default in all major distros today. 20:26 < nobody> hi everyone :) 20:27 < Sonolin> hello 20:28 < leibniz> np 20:28 < Kremator> Psi-Jack, since which year it became default? i does work aswell in red-hat based distros? 20:32 < phre4k> Kremator: xyproblem, what do you really want to do 20:34 < DrunkRhino> Alright, so now that LightDM is working again on my Pi... I can connect to the Pi via Xephyr just fine, but how would I get another LightDM process to connect to the XDMCP server from the Pi? 20:35 < rypervenche> Kremator: Check this: https://access.redhat.com/sites/default/files/attachments/rhel_5_6_7_cheatsheet_a3_1114_jcs_0.pdf 20:36 < V7> Is this command eats a lot ? netstat --interfaces | grep $interface1 | awk '{ print $4 }' 20:36 < V7> Does it * 20:37 < rypervenche> V7: ls /sys/class/net 20:37 < V7> rypervenche: This outputs devices 20:38 < rypervenche> V7: What are you trying to get? 20:38 < V7> The need is to get an amount of data trasfered 20:38 < V7> in bytes 20:38 < V7> in bits * 20:38 * jimm is a little suspicious of this "xyproblem" designation.,.. if it's not an xyproblem, then what, have we reached the person's purpose for their whole life? 20:38 < V7> hm 20:38 < V7> Btw is it possible to send 1 bit through some interface ? 20:39 < V7> Without sending a whole tcp/ip packet ? 20:39 < jimm> you'll have to send a packet, and, it can contain one bit 20:40 < V7> Oh, so it's not possible to send information without packeting ? 20:41 < Psi-Jack> Kremator: Depends on distro. Debian (and thus Ubuntu too) was behind the longest while everyone else was already running it for the past ~10 years. 20:41 < jimm> it's gonna have the from/to ip/port (and the rest of the header), and it's gonna have one or two bytes, and the bit will be one of the bits in those bytes... 20:41 < Psi-Jack> Debian only just caught up to speed with Debian 8, and further in Debian 9. 20:41 < Dagmar> Minimum 40 bytes 20:42 < V7> jimm: Yes, but .. wihout sending to an ip, but just to a wire 20:42 < Dagmar> If you need to send just _one bit_ then clearly it's not something on a modern network, it's on an I2C bus. 20:42 < V7> You know, like impulse 20:42 < Dagmar> Otherwise, you need to send more than one bit. 20:42 < V7> The need is to use ethernet interface 20:42 < Dagmar> Then you're not sending just one bit. 20:42 < jimm> V7, using a net? 20:42 < rypervenche> V7: What is your ultimate goal here? 20:43 < V7> jimm: No 20:43 < V7> rypervenche: Just asking if it's possible to send an impulse through patchcord 20:43 < jimm> what's gonna receive that bit? 20:44 < Psi-Jack> What? 20:44 < V7> jimm: Some PIC18F device 20:44 < jimm> what connector/cable? 20:44 < V7> It just need to get high signal from old computer with only ethernet interface on board 20:44 < Psi-Jack> V7: That's now how ethernet... works... 20:44 < V7> jimm: 8p8c 20:45 < V7> Psi-Jack: Without using network 20:45 < V7> Just like a wire 20:45 < Psi-Jack> Again, That is not how ethernet works... 20:45 < Dagmar> I2C bus. 20:45 < V7> With 8 leads 20:45 < Dagmar> V7: State an actual problem 20:45 < phre4k> V7: you can use a µC for that, e.g. Arduino, and solder an Ethernet connector to its pins 20:45 < DrowningElysium> Hey, I am following a tutorial and accidently installed mariadb, now I deleted it and installed mysql, but I can't seem to start the service. The error I have https://kopy.io/baQJL 20:46 < phre4k> DrowningElysium: MariaDB is an implementation of MySQL, most of the time MariaDB is perfectly fine if you want MySQL 20:46 < Psi-Jack> DrowningElysium: Why did you uninstall mariadb and install mysql? You went backwards? 20:46 < phre4k> ^ 20:46 < V7> Roger that, but ... is it possible with linux to do that ? 20:46 < DrowningElysium> I thought with mysql 8 coming it is easier to have mysql :P 20:47 < Psi-Jack> V7: Get a RPi, use the GPIO? 20:47 < V7> ... 20:47 < Psi-Jack> Arduino or ESP2286 or ESP32 and use GPIO. 20:47 < V7> Psi-Jack: This's not the answer 20:47 < Psi-Jack> Yes, yes it is. 20:47 < V7> No. It isn't. 20:47 < phre4k> V7: yes, you can program microcontrollers with Linux 20:47 < DrowningElysium> phre4k: but anything wrong with mysql then? 20:47 < Psi-Jack> V7: Do you have a Linux question? 20:47 < phre4k> DrowningElysium: MariaDB _IS_ MySQL! 20:47 < V7> Psi-Jack: Already sked 3 times. 20:47 < Psi-Jack> V7: I see no Linux questions. 20:48 < Psi-Jack> Do you have a Linux question? 20:48 < DrowningElysium> phre4k: I know, but I wanted the original mysql :P 20:48 < phre4k> DrowningElysium: "original"? Why? 20:48 < phre4k> do you think MariaDB is a knockoff or what? :D 20:48 < rypervenche> DrowningElysium: Why? Mariadb is more performant. 20:48 < DrowningElysium> Well I wanted to give the new mysql 8 a try later on 20:48 < V7> Is it possible to manipulate an ethernet interface as it would be used as a simple wire ? 20:48 < phre4k> DrowningElysium: MariaDB is probably already better NOW than mysql will be in the future 20:48 < Dagmar> DrowningElysium: Going forward you're going to be fine with MariaDB. They're pretty much identical. MariaDB was forked from MySQL a while back after Oracle bought MySQL 20:48 < V7> Through Linux 20:48 < Psi-Jack> V7: No. Move along. 20:48 < Dagmar> V7 20:48 < DrowningElysium> Dagmar: ah ok so better change it back 20:49 < Dagmar> V7: The answer is a solid 'no'. You cannot bit-bang an ethernet interface 20:49 < Dagmar> You do *not* get that level of access to the wires under any conditions 20:49 < V7> Dagmar: This's not about buying GPIO device like PIC, Arduino, Intel, Orange, Raspberry, SMT, Atmel, AVR and so on 20:49 < Dagmar> V7: Did my answer sound like I was leaving room for argument? 20:50 < Psi-Jack> lol 20:50 < V7> Dagmar: Because of hardware driver ? 20:50 < Dagmar> V7: Because of the hardware 20:50 < RayTracer> the ethernet chips have higher level stuff like tcp checksum offloading, so they won't expose such a thing like "make line3 5v" 20:50 < ejr> what's the easiest way to convert a HD video to a lower resolution of eg 480x272 on the linux cli? 20:50 < phre4k> V7: you can rewrite your ethernet controller's IC, but then you can't use it for anything else :p 20:50 < Dagmar> It would *murder* your CPU to use ethernet if the CPU had anything to do with the individual pulses on the wire 20:50 < phre4k> ejr: I'd say ffmpeg/libav or even mpv 20:51 < Dagmar> ejr: ffmpeg, for various values of "easier" 20:51 < rypervenche> ejr: Well, the "best" way would probably be with ffmpeg. Easiest..hmmm. It's not too bad via ffmpeg if you know what to use. 20:51 < DrowningElysium> Hmm now I don't have the mysql service anymore, anyone an idea what could have gone wrong? 20:51 < V7> Oh, understood, so hardware already has there firmware which won't allow to achieve that 20:51 < Dagmar> DrowningElysium: It's probably called the "mariadb" service now, since they made a fairly thorough name change 20:51 < DrowningElysium> Nevermind, put the words wrong way xD 20:51 < V7> Psi-Jack: ^ 20:52 < phre4k> V7: exactly 20:52 < ejr> alright, thank you guys, will look into that. 20:52 < V7> Thank you Dagmar, RayTracer, phre4k 20:52 < phre4k> DrowningElysium: install mariadb :p 20:52 < Psi-Jack> V7: hence my recommendations to get a microcontroller-capable device, like RPi, ESP 2286, and ESP 32, or Arduino. 20:52 < DrowningElysium> I am someone who is great at destroying OSes xD 20:52 < DrunkRhino> Hmm... should I be setting anything else in the [Seat:*] section of lightdm.conf, or should I be seeing results from the -allow-tcp and xdmcp-port opts being uncommented? 20:52 < DrowningElysium> phre4k: I did 20:52 < V7> Psi-Jack: This's not question related 20:53 < V7> By the way, thank you 20:53 < Dagmar> If your really want to bit-bang a wire, use a serial or parallel port 20:53 < V7> Thank you very much, all of you 20:53 < V7> Yup, already rs2323 20:53 < V7> 232* 20:53 < Psi-Jack> Or design your own I2C addon. ;) 20:53 < V7> Psi-Jack: addon ? 20:54 < Psi-Jack> Yes. Something you'd have to, likely solder on, or add to a PCI card, that allows controlling GPIO type ports through I2C address space. 20:55 < Psi-Jack> Course, insuring protections to make sure the PCI bus doesn't get unacceptable power feedback from obvious possible problems that could arise with such things. :) 20:58 < SlimmyJimmy> Anyone use "Free Download Manager" here? My download won't restart because it got a "Host Name not found" error when my Internet blacked out but now it's working and I want to resume the download. There is an icon I can click to restart but the word restart scares me. I don't want to start from scratch. 20:59 < rypervenche> SlimmyJimmy: What browser? 20:59 < SlimmyJimmy> It's not, its actually a separate piece of software. 20:59 < Dagmar> Feel free to ask the author 21:00 < Dagmar> Or just make a copy of what you've downloaded so far and then try it 21:00 < SlimmyJimmy> Already posted on the forum, awaiting a response but I'm impatient. 21:00 < rypervenche> SlimmyJimmy: You might be able to find the file that it saved and then trying to continue the download using wget or axel. 21:01 < rypervenche> Or yeah, just copy it to a backup file and then try it. 21:01 < OnkelTem> Hi all. Guys, can you recommend some reading on keymaps and layouts? Linux layouts just make me so confused... 21:01 < SlimmyJimmy> yep, I guess that's the easiest solution or just waiting for my response 21:01 < OnkelTem> I'm on KDE and it's all just bloody mess. Compose key, Third level, 10th level, Compose file, in there... just one big mess 21:01 < OnkelTem> And the worst thing is that I don't really understand where to lookup for layouts %) 21:02 < jenia> hello 21:02 < jenia> can two programs open the same port? 21:03 < jenia> if they're sitting behind different domain names 21:03 < Dagmar> Only if they're binding to different IP addresses 21:03 < Dagmar> DNS names don't matter to sockets 21:03 < jenia> yea. that's what I though 21:03 < jenia> humm. thanks 21:04 < drb1> What's the difference between /usr/share/icons and /usr/share/themes? 21:04 < Dagmar> Several characters. 21:05 < BCMM> jenia: as in, open a listening port? or just connect to the same port on a remote machine? 21:05 < hexnewbie> jenia: Use a third program to proxy the first two programs and provide virtual hosts as supported by those programs' protocol (if supported) 21:07 < BCMM> jenia: assuming listening: are your two programs by any chance HTTP servers? 21:07 < BCMM> (because in that case, the answer is still no, but there are plenty of existing solutions for making it look like that's what's happening) 21:09 < hexnewbie> Reverse proxies and name-based virtual hosts exists for non-HTTP protocols as well 21:09 < Psi-Jack> drb1: icons. themes. What's not to get? ;) 21:09 < BCMM> hexnewbie: which, for example? 21:10 < BCMM> http has the Host: header, i'm sure some other protocols have analogues but I can't think of any right now 21:10 < widp> What program do I use to look at fan info? 21:10 < BCMM> widp: sensors (from the lm_sensors package) 21:10 < Dagmar> lm_sensors's `sensors` 21:10 < widp> I tried "sensors | grep fan" 21:10 < widp> no fan.. 21:10 < Dagmar> ...and whatever available chicken entrails you have 21:11 < BCMM> widp: have you don sensors-detect? 21:11 < Dagmar> Not all hardware provides any way to get information about it 21:11 < widp> BCMM: yes 21:11 < Psi-Jack> widp: grep -i fan 21:11 < DrowningElysium> Sorry for asking again, but what does this error mean? https://kopy.io/ttwdK 21:11 < widp> Psi-Jack: no luck. 21:11 < drb1> Ah, well, I just wanted some icons from a theme 21:11 < drb1> Not the whole theme 21:11 < DrunkRhino> Hmm... anyone else happent to know how I'd set LightDM like a thin client and connect it to an XDMCP server? Trying to set xdmcp-port, greeter-show-remote-login, and type doesn't seem to be doing the trick. 21:12 < drb1> But thx Psi-Jack 21:12 < widp> sensors-detect added "coretemp" to my /etc/modulers or something. 21:12 < Psi-Jack> drb1: "thanks" not "thx" for future self correction. It matters. 21:12 < hexnewbie> BCMM: Every protocol where at some point you request a hostname. Mail for example: Multiple IMAP/POP3 servers with full email as login can be proxied behind the same proxy using some logic (or host/email maps), and SMTP is basically equivalent to a reverse proxy and virtual host just by the way it works. 21:13 < BCMM> hexnewbie: point, smtp was kind of an obvious one... 21:13 < Dagmar> DrowningElysium: https://askubuntu.com/questions/490468/add-apt-repository-throws-python-error-unicodedecodeerror-ascii-codec-cant 21:14 < DrowningElysium> Thanks Dagmar 21:14 < GrayShade> hi, can someone help me with an udev rule? I have a rule that works when I run udevadm trigger -c add (or change, for what it's worth), but not after boot. it used to work a couple of kernels ago 21:15 < GrayShade> it's a workaround for a driver issue, but that's another story 21:15 < phre4k> BCMM: if it's TCP, you could use HAProxy 21:15 < widp> this is the output of sensors BCMM Dagmar Psi-Jack : https://seashells.io/v/FsPTPs4u 21:15 < GrayShade> it looks like this https://bpaste.net/show/34f22502818b 21:15 < Psi-Jack> widp: Mmm, fun. 21:15 < Dagmar> widp: I was pretty clear before 21:15 < BCMM> widp: and this is after doing sensors-detect, as root? 21:15 < widp> yes 21:16 < Dagmar> Not all hardware botheres to provide an interface 21:16 < phinxy> Whats a good way to daily/weekly move files from Mac OSX to Linux on a LAN? Like new photos from a camera to a NAS. 21:16 < Dagmar> If the fans are all 2-wire fans, forget it 21:16 < BCMM> widp: looks like your motherboard doesn't have the relevant sensors, or there are not linux drivers for those sensors 21:16 < Dagmar> If the fan speeds aren't reported somewhere in the BIOS setup menus, also forget it 21:17 < widp> how do I know this is the case? 21:17 < BCMM> widp: because that's just standard acpi thermal zones, and cpu temperature as reported directly by the cpu 21:17 < Dagmar> ...and even when they are there, frequently the multiplier is an undocumented value so you have to use some manual method of measurement to find out the proper multiplier, or check the BIOS report and compare what you get through the sensors 21:17 < phre4k> BCMM: or http://gobetween.io 21:17 < widp> I just want to check the health of my fans :/ 21:18 < phre4k> jenia: see my last messages above ^ 21:18 < BCMM> phre4k: so how do those work out which host to forward stuff to? 21:18 < Psi-Jack> widp: What kind of system is this? 21:18 < widp> HP pavillion x360 21:18 < phre4k> BCMM: you configure them? 21:18 < widp> a laptop 21:18 < Psi-Jack> widp: Ahh similarish to my HV Envy. 21:18 < Psi-Jack> HP* 21:18 < widp> * 21:19 < Dagmar> Use eyeballs to check the health of fans 21:19 < Dagmar> Nothing I've ever seen reports more than the current RPM 21:19 < Psi-Jack> That's hard to do when they're enclosed. :) 21:19 < widp> true 21:19 < Dagmar> ...and if they don't show up in the UEFI configuration screens somewhere, then there is no interface the OS can use to query them 21:20 < Psi-Jack> Huh, sensors-detect on my HP Envy doesn't even find anything at all. Annoying. 21:20 < Dagmar> But, on the good side of things they're likely to be 100% hardware controlled, so you can't accidentally turn them off and melt anything 21:20 < Dagmar> Laptop vendors have learned not to let idiots decide the machine should run as fast as possible, but also be quiet 21:20 < xoxxxx> df blank lines, no output. new terminal - the same. 21:20 < BCMM> yeah, laptops very often have the fans controlled completely transparently by firmware 21:21 < widp> My fan bearing had worn out a while back. 21:21 < widp> something to track things like that would be nice. 21:21 < jab416171> when I was at school some of the students used custom software to control their fans 21:21 < BCMM> (because laptops often have pretty finicky thermal designs which are a few seconds away from overheating at any time) 21:21 < jab416171> mainly because they were playing games and didn't want to overheat 21:21 < Dagmar> BCM++ 21:22 < widp> what are thermal zones btw? 21:22 < Dagmar> _especially_ the Envy line 21:22 < Dagmar> widp: It's a fancy way of saying "the place around this sensor we wedged in there" 21:22 < rendar> im trying to install linux on a m.2 stick where there is windows, and uefi boot, but when it tries to install grub it fails, and it doesn't tell me the error - how i can fix this? 21:22 < widp> I see one temperature always at 30 degree and the other varies. 21:22 < BCMM> widp: basically just regions of the computer that you can read the temperature of 21:22 < widp> could it be that the sensor is dead? 21:22 < Dagmar> widp: The one is probably a misread then 21:22 < SuperSeriousCat> Install with what line, rendar? 21:23 < Dagmar> Temperature sensors are probably _the_ crappiest part of the design for everything that isn't server-level hardware 21:23 < widp> I am surprised so much is possible on fragile machines like this. 21:23 < SuperSeriousCat> uefi needed some additional args on the guides Ive seen 21:23 < rendar> SuperSeriousCat: grub install dummy 21:23 < BCMM> widp: typically the first one is CPU temperature and the second one is some kind of motherboard temperature in a random location 21:23 < Dagmar> Motherboard vendors will frequently just shove one chip on every board they have, and connect lines to actual sensors OR NOT based on their whims during a particular hardware sub-revision 21:24 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm 21:24 < BCMM> widp: on a desktop, it would usually be fairly representative of the air temp inside the case. in a laptop it's so cramped that i'd have no idea what temp2 actually means 21:24 < Dagmar> The information you get from CPU _internal_ sensors is also not generally attributable to ANY SPECIFIC TEMPERATURE 21:24 < Psi-Jack> Now I understand why some people dislike HP. :) 21:24 < Psi-Jack> They limit things like, reading fan metrics and controlling PWM. 21:24 < SuperSeriousCat> rendar, grub-install --target=x86_64-efi --efi-directory=/boot or similar 21:24 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: meh.. not sure Duplicaty or whatever I was testing will work. no way to 'start' it as a service. it's per desktop user 21:24 < Dagmar> On the majority of chips the only thing that number means is a differential between the inside of the CPU and the outside of the CPU, and it's used to control clock speed throttling and you're only getting to see it as a novelty 21:24 < SuperSeriousCat> Mak sure /boot is mounted 21:25 < BCMM> widp: but it's definitely normal for the cpu to be much hotter than the rest of the mainboard 21:25 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Ahhh yes.. When I tested it out, I ran it as a systemd timer unit. 21:25 < rendar> SuperSeriousCat; wait i have opened a shell thanks to the installer, but it tells me grub-install is not present! how come?! 21:25 < widp> makes sense 21:25 < rendar> SuperSeriousCat: only grub-installer is present.. 21:25 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Just like I do borgmatic (which runs borgbackup with some framework wrappings) 21:25 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: That's what I need to do.. it seems pretty simplistic 21:26 < Dagmar> widp: Out of the many hundreds of machines I've dealt with, only very few consumer-level boards had a complete array of sensors available 21:27 < Dagmar> widp: Hardware targeted at servers is a much more likely case, but you still get to guess at fan speed multipliers 21:28 < Dagmar> My guess is that the only reason many manufacturers even bother to install a sensor chip in the first place is "just in case" some RFP comes in that requires detection of exceptional heat conditions 21:28 < widp> do providers like aws let you read machine sensors? 21:28 < Bashing-om> widp: ' cat /sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone0/temp ' work for you ? 21:28 < zamza> hi 21:28 < Dagmar> ...because it would be financially unviable to go back afterwards and add one to the design of a motherboard 21:28 < Dagmar> widp: virtual sensors, perhaps? 21:29 < widp> lol 21:29 < zamza> i'm trying fix a usb drive, it has a stuck partition, someone told me to use wipefs, but i don't know which command to use exactly with it. 21:29 < zamza> does anyone have experience using wipefs? 21:29 < Dagmar> zamza; You should be able to just use dd to overwrite the thing with zeros entirely 21:29 < Dagmar> zamza: That's going to wipe any partition table present 21:30 < Dagmar> Otherwise, you've got one of the very rare "fancy" thumbdrives that actually emulates even the partition table 21:30 < Psi-Jack> zamza: Instead of asking to ask..... 21:30 < widp> Bashing-om: I got the temperature, I am looking for the fan. 21:30 < widp> which judging by what I've heard so far, I might be able to look at in the bios. 21:30 < DrunkRhino> Anyone happen to know a better place to go poking around for LightDM help/advice/documentation? Most of what I'm finding via google is relating to setting up the XDMCP server, which is currently working, not setting up LDM as a greeter for a thin client. 21:31 < Psi-Jack> widp: Apparently HP specifically does not provide standard fan sensors/controls. 21:31 < Dagmar> If an overwrite with zeros of the entire device doesn't kill a partition table, then you're not going to be able to kill it ever 21:31 < widp> Psi-Jack: not even in the bios? 21:31 < Psi-Jack> widp: BIOS != Linux. 21:31 < Dagmar> widp: If they don't show up there then there's practically zero chance you're getting to read anything via software 21:31 < Dagmar> ...because it doesn't exist 21:32 < widp> ahh, I see. 21:32 < Bashing-om> widp: ' inxi -F ' . 21:33 < zamza> Dagmar, that didn't work 21:34 < zamza> Psi-Jack, i didn't =\ 21:34 < widp> "Fan speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A 21:34 < Psi-Jack> zamza: You did ask to ask. 21:34 < widp> " 21:34 < widp> I AM MISSING A FAN!!!1 21:34 < widp> bbl 21:34 < zamza> Psi-Jack, i asked my question =J 21:34 < Psi-Jack> zamza: You asked to ask a question./ 21:35 < zamza> Dagmar, dd seemed to work fine with if=zero, but it didn't, so someone recommended wipefs 21:36 < zamza> Psi-Jack, i asked what command i need to wipe a usb drive using wipefs =D 21:36 < Psi-Jack> does anyone have experience using wipefs? 21:36 < Psi-Jack> ^ This is asking to ask. 21:36 < zamza> mhmm 21:36 < zamza> i guess 21:37 < zamza> i thought it was good 21:37 < Bunk> Im running bunsenlabs from usb on a notebook. it has no flash. 21:37 < Psi-Jack> You were corrected. 21:37 < zamza> do you? 21:37 < Psi-Jack> ... 21:37 < Bunk> How can i watch something flashy in Firefox here ? 21:37 < zamza> do you know what command i need to put in Psi-Jack ? 21:37 < Psi-Jack> Bunk: Open www.google.com 21:37 < phre4k> zamza: use gdisk /dev/disk/by-id/… → x → z 21:38 < Psi-Jack> zamza: man wipefs 21:38 < Bunk> there is a flash plugin 21:39 < Bunk> but it does not work 21:39 < Bunk> installing flash does not work 21:39 < zamza> Psi-Jack, omg i tried wipefs -h, which gave me garbage. this is much more useful. can't believe i forgot "man". =D 21:39 < Psi-Jack> Firefox Quantum does not use the same plugin architecture as previous Firefox. 21:39 < Psi-Jack> Firefox Quantum finally now uses PEPPER, like Chrome. 21:40 < noway96> So what is initramfs anyway? 21:40 < Psi-Jack> zamza: Never forget man. 21:40 < Psi-Jack> zamza: Never forget info. 21:40 < ayecee> never forget 9/11 21:40 < zamza> oh... what does info do? 21:40 < Psi-Jack> Shows you info pages. 21:41 < svartoyg> 9/11 was a great radio show on german radio NRJ 21:41 < svartoyg> too bad it's gone 21:41 < ayecee> info pages are someone's whizbang idea of how manpages could be better, but didn't really take off. 21:41 < Psi-Jack> pinfo, an alternative info viewer, is easier/better to use though. 21:41 < Psi-Jack> ayecee: Yeah, kinda sad really. info was better, but the viewer sucked. 21:41 < savethegibbons> I'm a --help sorta guy 21:41 < savethegibbons> man is too much words 21:41 < Psi-Jack> savethegibbons: You will fail. 21:42 < ayecee> personal pet peeve is when the manpage says "see the info page for more details", and then the info page is basically a verbatim copy of the manpage. 21:42 < zamza> oh nice 21:43 < zamza> yeah cuz sometimes the man pages are just ... too overly contextual for a layperson, it reminds me of when i tried to read the dictionary when i was like seven 21:43 < egonsen> i want to setup a local cloud on my raspberry pi and have my smartphone (android 6.0.1) and my arch linux sync certain data (pictures, documents) to the cloud. the cloud data on the raspi shall be compressed, encrypted and uploaded to a internet cloud. the reason why i want to encrypt the stuff is that i do not want the internet cloud provider to be able to read my data. what's the best way to do this? 21:44 < zamza> thanks =) 21:45 < Psi-Jack> egonsen: Get a rocket ship, encase the RPi in a water proof sealed case that has an uplink to satellite relay system, launch it into the sky and make sure it stays within the clouds.... 21:45 < savethegibbons> egonsen: Never done it myself, but encfs should work for the encryption side of it 21:45 < Psi-Jack> Ewww, LUKS or nothing. 21:45 < garylabronz> no encryption better perf 21:46 < cryptic0> How can I paste a large number of files (column wise) into one? I need to control the order in which they are pasted. I have filenames in a text file. 21:47 < savethegibbons> Encfs is going to be a lot simpler than using LUKS, considering it's just a method of encrypting a specific directory on top of your existing filesystem 21:49 < savethegibbons> I guess you will leak a lot of metadata to your provider, but *shrug* 21:50 < savethegibbons> And for LUKS I guess you'd have to work with a single (presumably) large image file? That could be problematic 21:51 < savethegibbons> Guess it depends on how paranoid you need to be 21:53 < noway96> in syslinux.cfg I can specify the ui file using: ui . Can I do the same in grub.cfg? 21:53 < Psi-Jack> savethegibbons: And a lot less secure. 21:54 < Psi-Jack> noway96: What's a "ui file?" 21:54 < LissajousPattern> so best linux question ever... So what can't you do with linux? 21:54 < ayecee> find true love 21:54 < ayecee> settle down 21:54 < ayecee> make babies 21:54 < noway96> It's the UI of the grub screen. With colors and things 21:55 < Psi-Jack> noway96: No. it's not. 21:55 < LissajousPattern> ayecee, funny you mention cause I just started the "baby makin linux" linux. 21:56 < ayecee> about time someone did! 21:56 < ayecee> here i've been making babies the hard way 21:56 < Psi-Jack> noway96: https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub/grub.html 21:56 < ayecee> but wombd will revolutionize this 21:56 < mwd> 3d printers is the way of the future 21:56 < LissajousPattern> as it boots it plays marvin gaye 21:56 < ayecee> hot 21:56 < LissajousPattern> wombd is a great idea 21:57 < LissajousPattern> I must have it 21:57 < Psi-Jack> mwd: Print a legal document on a 3D printer. 21:58 < ayecee> easy. first, 3d print a pen and a tablet 21:58 < LissajousPattern> pentesters sure do a lot of sniffing 21:58 < ayecee> i think it's the cocaine 21:58 < LissajousPattern> haha 21:59 < LissajousPattern> is it? 21:59 < mwd> when it comes to cocaine, it's finders keepers 21:59 < ayecee> idk 22:00 < nobrain> drugs are bad mmmkay? 22:01 < ayecee> that's not what my dealer says 22:01 < garylabronz> your doctor? 22:01 < ayecee> oh snap 22:02 < LissajousPattern> oh flap 22:02 * Psi-Jack snaps ayecee's fingers. 22:02 * Psi-Jack flaps LissajousPattern around like a large trout. 22:03 < LissajousPattern> yes I have received the super trout award 22:04 < LissajousPattern> better than being slapped by a 22:04 < JimBuntu> I look away and it gets all lively in here. 22:04 < ayecee> lout? 22:04 < mwd> moat 22:04 < LissajousPattern> haha 22:05 < velix> I want to grep/sed all lines between two keywords, the last one should contain two newlines. I can't get this to work (without newlines it works). Anyone with an idea? sed -n -e '/start/,/stop\n\n/p' 22:06 < JimBuntu> Linux (and it's fore-mommas_ have been helping people find true love for a long time, in the form of match-making systems. Back in the not so long ago days of direct dial-up being common, there were plenty of huge systems with algo matching people based on likes/etc, quite a long test really... and they had huge chat systems and even multi-user text games. 22:07 < LissajousPattern> JimBuntu, I have found true love through linux. 22:08 < JimBuntu> I did not find my true love through Linux, but I found her at a job where I admin'd a Xenix system, that's kinda close. 22:08 < Dagmar> Nasty 22:09 < hodapp> anyone handy with USB gadget configfs? I went through the same motions that I have done on a Pi Zero to make HID devices appear, but this is on a Beaglebone Black which already has libcomposite in use - and I can see it add the module usb_f_hid but no /dev/hidg0 device appears 22:10 < LissajousPattern> JimBuntu, that is a true love story match made in nerd heaven 22:10 < JimBuntu> Then she got more into computers, now she loves Linux distros. 22:10 < hodapp> but also, no HID device appears to the USB host (the one at the other end of this) 22:11 < hodapp> where as on the Pi Zero, as soon as I create the hierarchy in configfs the items appear. 22:12 < Chojuan> format c: /s 22:13 < JimBuntu> yay, it's a system drive 22:13 < mwd> -_- 22:13 < Psi-Jack> Chojuan: bad command or file name. 22:13 < Chojuan> I am making a time machine 22:13 < Chojuan> with windows 98 22:13 < hodapp> I am also a bit stumped at where in the boot process this Debian-based-whatever is initializing configfs. I see where configfs is mounted at boot, but it's not persistent. 22:13 < Psi-Jack> In ##linux? 22:14 < astor> Trying to dist-upgrade kali getting the following errors, and can't find anything on google. https://paste.linux.community/view/489a17f6 22:14 < hodapp> no systemd unit seems to do it, and nothing else in /etc seems relevant, so grep tells me 22:14 < Psi-Jack> astor: For Kali help, see their channel. 22:14 < Psi-Jack> astor: And stop trying to use Kali as a desktop distro. It's not. 22:14 < astor> Not using it as a desktop distro, didn't imply that. 22:15 < Psi-Jack> apt-get implies that. :0 22:15 < savethegibbons> Kali has so many packages. Upgrading it truly a nightmare 22:15 < Psi-Jack> dist-upgrade further implies it more. 22:15 < Chojuan> I installed Kali one year ago as desktop 22:15 < savethegibbons> s/it/it is/ 22:15 < LissajousPattern> astor, did you think to try -f ? 22:15 < Psi-Jack> Chojuan: Silly you. 22:15 < revel> Chojuan: Why though? 22:16 < astor> LissajousPattern, Yeah tried all the standard it always fails 22:16 < LissajousPattern> running kali on bare metal is awesome 22:16 < hodapp> what other magical places are there for hiding bootup scripts? 22:17 < Chojuan> I wanted to learn some pentesting, or scriptkiddietesting 22:17 < astor> Chojuan, hackthebox to learn actual testing it is similar to the OSCP 22:17 < LissajousPattern> just set up some labs 22:18 < JimBuntu> astor, `apt-get autoremove && apt-get update && apt-get upgrade && apt-get dist-upgrade` 22:18 < astor> JimBuntu, Thanks for the suggestion. Tried removing. It fails. 22:19 < JimBuntu> autoremove fails? 22:19 < astor> Yep 22:19 < astor> With the exact same error 22:19 < JimBuntu> Did you try `dpkg --configure -a` ? 22:20 < astor> Same hting 22:20 < hipp> astor> have you tried apt install -f 22:20 < hipp> ? 22:20 < astor> yep hipp 22:20 < hipp> same error? 22:20 < astor> Yep 22:20 < JimBuntu> astor, sounds like you have put some time in... is this a fresh Kali? 22:20 < astor> Nope been using it for a year or two 22:21 < hodapp> or... how might one go about determining what is responsible for loading a specific module? 22:21 < LissajousPattern> astor are you running the old version of kali-archive-keyring? 22:21 < Chojuan> I admit I have a lot of troubles with Kali as desktop, If you don't upgrade it for a while, problematic to upgrade 22:21 < astor> Shouldn't be removed it and installed not too long ago because of the update package errors. 22:22 < JimBuntu> hodapp, if you use lsmod, it may show you what requires it... work backwords. You could also try to find the module name in any config files via find... if it's built in with the kernel, then the kernel config 22:23 < astor> Somewhere along the line this install got fucked. Should probably just vest the time for a new image. Kali is just convenient. 22:24 < hodapp> JimBuntu: kernel config already tells me it's built as a module, but merely building as a module shouldn't cause it to be loaded automatically, no? 22:24 < LissajousPattern> it happens 22:24 < hodapp> JimBuntu: searching in config files is what I've been doing and not turning up anything - at least in places like /etc 22:26 < hodapp> nothing in lsmod is shown as requiring libcomposite, which sort of makes sense since it is its own thing 22:26 < JimBuntu> hodapp are you using something like `find /etc -type f -exec grep -B 1 -A 1 -His modname {} \;` ? 22:27 < hodapp> was just using "grep -R"; the find command isn't finding anything either 22:30 < raynold> ahh it's a wonderful day 22:30 < hodapp> I suppose parts of it could be buried in kernel commandline or uboot configuration or something... 22:30 < hodapp> on the Pi Zero the module is given in the kernel commandline, I think 22:32 < Psi-Jack> astor: So you had sexual intercourse with your computer you installed Linux on? 22:32 < hodapp> ... 22:32 < fr0xk_> Psi-Jack: 🤣 22:34 < Chojuan> astor: thanks 22:34 < LissajousPattern> y'all have a great evening. 22:35 < Psi-Jack> astor: hint choose words more carefully. :) 22:37 < Chojuan> Puigdemont: ¿Dónde vas? 22:38 < Psi-Jack> English please. 22:55 < killown> anyone recommend me a good distro that is not pacman based? archlinux is too bleeding edge, lots of glitches even with i3 wm 22:55 < Psi-Jack> Fedora, openSUSE, CentOS, Debian 22:55 < killown> which one is better for plasma desktop? 22:56 < innopit> anyway to set non-root permissions on a ntfs usb? 22:56 < Psi-Jack> "better" is a personal opinion that only you can answer. 22:56 < innopit> chmod doesnt work 22:56 < Psi-Jack> innopit: NTFS is not POSIX 22:56 < Psi-Jack> So, no. 22:56 < revel> You mean Arch-based? Since a relatively stable distro could be made using chmod. 22:56 < revel> s/chmod/pacman/ 22:56 < Psi-Jack> man mount.ntfs-3g, looking at uid=/gid= mount options. 23:01 < Sitri> revel: Frugalware also uses pacman, but is entirely unrelated to Arch 23:02 < innopit> thanks guys ntfs-3g worked 23:02 < Sitri> killown: what is the issue that's making you want to look into another distro? 23:02 < killown> Sitri, archlinux] 23:02 < Sitri> That's not an issue 23:03 < killown> ? 23:03 < revel> Yes it is. 23:03 < Sitri> What do you dislike about archlinux that's making you look for another distro? 23:03 < killown> interface glitches all the way everywhere 23:04 < killown> plasma, gnome, i3 xfce, all have glitches 23:04 < savethegibbons> If a particular package is causing problems, you can downgrade it with pacman. The packages should be in the /var/cache/pacman/pkg 23:04 < killown> I am sure this is from nvidia driver 23:04 < killown> the entirely system is causing problems 23:05 < Sitri> Okay... you might find the same issues happen with other distros. But generally, a more mainstream distro will have a polished DE experience, so look into the ones suggested already. 23:05 < savethegibbons> You using the proprietrary drivers? 23:05 < killown> savethegibbons, yes 23:05 < killown> maybe I should try manjaro again 23:05 < savethegibbons> Maybe use the LTS versions 23:06 < savethegibbons> Arch has the regular one and the lts nvidia packages 23:06 < savethegibbons> Combine with lts kernel 23:06 < savethegibbons> dkms etc 23:06 < savethegibbons> Might help, maybe 23:06 < killown> I tested linux lts also 23:06 < killown> same glitches 23:07 < Sitri> There's also a possibility there's a hardware issue 23:07 < Psi-Jack> Then there is no hope for you. 23:08 < killown> gentoo 23:09 < Psi-Jack> Gentoo would help you expose more hardware problems than any other distro, due to compiling /everything/,. 23:10 < Sitri> Except for the stage3 stuff 23:11 < Psi-Jack> And if you use the stage3 stuff, you're not really using gentoo properly. :) 23:12 < Sitri> Uhh, stage3 is part of the install process 23:12 < Psi-Jack> And you can recompile everything, and do, during a world build. 23:14 < justin^^^> i've looked around and it seems there's no antivirus programs for linux 23:14 < justin^^^> is there a technical reason for that or just not enough demand? 23:14 < Psi-Jack> justin^^^: There's ClamAV, F-Prot, various others, but they scan not for Linux viruses, but Windows viruses. 23:15 < savethegibbons> There's also rkhunter 23:15 < savethegibbons> Not quite AV, but more tailored to linuxy threats 23:15 < Psi-Jack> justin^^^: Linux has 0 viruses that are currently functional in Linux since the past ~5 years or sop. 23:15 < justin^^^> any that you can install from apt by chance? i'd rather not do source install if possible 23:15 < savethegibbons> And again, not really designed for a desktop 23:15 < xamithan> is dirtycow a virus 23:16 < Psi-Jack> apt install clamav 23:16 < justin^^^> ty Psi-Jack 23:16 < Psi-Jack> justin^^^: Why do you need, or why do you THINK you need this? 23:16 < savethegibbons> Yeah, I wouldn't run an AV tbh 23:16 < Sitri> There's a rootkit detection thing for Linux 23:16 < Psi-Jack> justin^^^: "thank you" not "ty" for future self corrections. It matters here. 23:16 < stevendale> Hi 23:16 < justin^^^> Psi-Jack starting my phd focused on security this semester, want to tinker with it 23:16 < justin^^^> and do you have a rule stating that in writing? 23:16 < xamithan> Most of that AV stuff focuses on email for nix servers 23:17 < Psi-Jack> justin^^^: See /topic, rules page. 23:17 < xamithan> Darn, is using AV instead of Anti-Virus breaking the rules? 23:17 < Psi-Jack> justin^^^: Linux has no viruses, really. Like I mentioned earlier, the virus scanners that are available for linux, are just to scan for Windows-based viruses. ;) 23:19 < jamiejackson> what mount option do i need to set permissions to 644? 23:19 < Psi-Jack> jamiejackson: What filesystem? 23:19 < jamiejackson> sshfs 23:19 < tvm> jamiejackson: umask=022 ? 23:19 < Psi-Jack> man mount.sshft 23:19 < Psi-Jack> mount.sshfs even. ;) 23:20 < Psi-Jack> xamithan: And no. DirtyCow is not a virus. 23:20 < jamiejackson> i 23:21 < jamiejackson> i'm not getting that man page. i'll google it 23:21 < Psi-Jack> jamiejackson: Sorry, it's just `man sshfs`. 23:21 < jamiejackson> ah ok 23:23 < jamiejackson> okay, so it doesn't have mode but does have umask. so tvm, umask is subtractive? 23:23 < Psi-Jack> jamiejackson: "thank you very much" not "tvm" for future self corrections. It matters here. 23:24 < jamiejackson> wait, am i not talking to someone with a nick of tvm? 23:25 < Psi-Jack> Oh, ooops. :) 23:25 < devslash> I'm trying to mount a windows shared folder in Linux. when I do sudo mount.cifs //MYIP/SharedName /mnt/sharedfolder -o user=hotmailemailaddress@hotmail.com -o vers=3.0 I get a permission denied error even though I know I'm using the right credentials 23:25 < Psi-Jack> tvm: Change your nick. it's confusing. :) 23:25 * Psi-Jack chuckles 23:25 < tvm> Psi-Jack: damn, i'm used it to :D 23:25 < Psi-Jack> heh 23:26 < tvm> jamiejackson: yeah, for files it's generally 666 - the umask, for dirs it's 777 - the umask 23:26 < jamiejackson> oh, weird, okay. will try. 23:26 < tvm> jamiejackson: it's unix standard that has been around for decades 23:27 < Vivian> hey can I get a staff to reclaim (as in free it) a nick for me? 23:27 < Psi-Jack> Vivian: See #freenode 23:28 < Vivian> I keep clicking the wrong channels... 23:28 < Vivian> ty Psi-Jack 23:28 < jamiejackson> let me rephrase that: it's weird that i hadn't encountered this umask stuff before (or that i've forgotten it) 23:28 < Psi-Jack> jamiejackson: "thank you" not "ty" for future self corrections. It matters here. 23:28 < Psi-Jack> Bah 23:28 < Psi-Jack> Tipping_Fedora: ^ 23:28 < savethegibbons> I just try and brute force umasks because I never remember 23:28 < savethegibbons> Heh 23:28 < stevendale> Psi-Jack No wonder people hate you, outrageously uptight 23:28 < tvm> jamiejackson: it can be mostly avoided with the 'rwx' notation 23:29 < jamiejackson> rwx notation in umask, tvm? 23:30 < tvm> jamiejackson: in file permissions, to make file executable you just do the chmod +x file, or chmod o+x file, not chmod 766 file 23:30 < stevendale> arr em arr eff slash 23:31 < jamiejackson> oh, yeah, right. and i'm used to the usual octals (and rwx notation there), but not the subtractive umask business. 23:31 < Psi-Jack> stevendale: You forgot the dash,. 23:31 < Psi-Jack> And spaces. :) 23:32 < jamiejackson> so it turned out that i needed umask 0133 to get 644 perms. oh well, i'm set though 23:32 < tvm> but some utilities just accept umask, 022 basically means u=rw,g=r,o=r 23:32 < stevendale> seahmod sevensevenseven 23:32 < tvm> oh, so it went from 777 23:33 < Psi-Jack> tvm: Though you said something about rwx notation for umasks. 23:33 < Psi-Jack> tvm: So, how would one set a umask using the umask command for examlpe, in rwx notation? ;) 23:34 < tvm> Psi-Jack: i don't think you can do that, it's just that some utilities accept both, but umask is just octal 23:34 < Psi-Jack> Actually. You can. 23:34 < tvm> never seen that used 23:34 < Psi-Jack> umask a=rwx,u-x,go-rx 23:35 < Psi-Jack> umask a=rx,ug+w == umask 002 23:36 < tvm> yeah, seems to work 23:37 < mawk> â 23:37 < Psi-Jack> :) 23:37 < Psi-Jack> mawk: you've turned chinese? 23:37 < mawk> I was trying my brand new compose key 23:37 < mawk> and accidentally hit enter 23:39 < justin^^^> someone said previously linux can't get viruses, can anyone explain that? or just the same way macs supposedly can't get viruses because they're a less popular platform? 23:39 < ozymandias> thats a part of it 23:39 < Psi-Jack> justin^^^: Linux /can/ get viruses. Linux has had viruses. 23:39 < mawk> marâtre, lâche, tâche, câpre, maître 23:39 < tonyt> any operating system can get infected 23:39 < savethegibbons> justin^^^: People download stuff with their package managers usually, not many people downloading random executables and pirated games 23:39 < Psi-Jack> The big difference is, viruses mostly work off vulnerabilties. Linux fixes those vulnerabilities./ 23:39 < savethegibbons> That and the size of the userbase 23:39 < ozymandias> its also important to note that linux tries to run as little priviledged software as possible 23:40 < peetaur> justin^^^: saying it can't is naiive and exaggerated; but you also have many more options (like apparmor and selinux) to improve security, and better automatic updates (that you won't shut off to prevent nagging to reboot and such), and lots of other reasons you'll easily find online 23:40 < ozymandias> its not targeted, it doesnt run as much as admin, and it is mostly installed via secure sources 23:40 < revel> ozymandias: That's up to the user. 23:40 < ozymandias> revel, what is? 23:40 < revel> "linux tries to run as little priviledged software as possible" 23:40 < peetaur> yeah package managers with signed downloads is a huge one... no random downloads with bundled malware 23:40 < ozymandias> most vended apps run in secure ways 23:41 < revel> You can even disable non-root users entirely in the kernel. 23:41 < ozymandias> you install apps from a package manager, the default config is USUALLY not to run as root 23:41 < mawk> and you can restrict root rights 23:41 < ozymandias> what you CAN do is less important than the defaults, and what MOST do 23:41 < savethegibbons> I think Linux users are also a bit paranoid 23:41 < mawk> remove pieces of its power 23:41 < revel> The "default config" is that they run as the user that calls them, unless they're setuid binaries. 23:41 < savethegibbons> Moreso than other users tbh 23:41 < mawk> non-paranoia is what make vulnerabilities savethegibbons 23:42 < justin^^^> ozymandias: root protection was the main thing i saw online that was an extra protection. but a virus that scrapes your own files could still get valuable information about someone 23:42 < savethegibbons> I sandbox the hell out of everything, even trusted open source software 23:42 < ozymandias> revel, many services run as special users, and many apps that run as the invoking user object to running as root 23:42 < tvm> savethegibbons: you must have a lot of free time 23:43 < peetaur> justin^^^: with a thing like apparmor, malware and exploits can likely only get at what you whitelisted (but such things are too permissive by default, so you have to learn them and configure them) 23:43 < Psi-Jack> justin^^^: Yes. Much like the Melissa virus did back in the day. 23:43 < revel> Apparmor? SELinux is where it's at. 23:43 < peetaur> but if an exploit can break into the kernel, it might be able to disable apparmor and selinux...like there was an exploit you could do through the pulseaudio back when they idiotically ran it as root and you could disable selinux 23:44 < Psi-Jack> peetaur: Like potentially with Spectre or Meltdown. :) 23:44 < peetaur> apparmor is way easier to configure so you'll actually use it rather than rely on the distro to supply all your profiles 23:44 < peetaur> yeah firmware and hardware bugs are not so easy to mitigate with software 23:45 < Psi-Jack> Thanks to Google's Repotline (sp?), though. 23:45 < ozymandias> also keep in mind that linux is NOT a monoculture, just because a virus writer finds an exploit in a particular distro or app version, it does NOT mean that it can spread to otehrs, further fragmenting the market -- its less like windows where if you infect windows 10, you have a lot of potential targets that are set up the same way 23:45 < revel> Psi-Jack: Retpoline. 23:45 < Psi-Jack> Thank you, Retpoline it is. 23:46 < justin^^^> Psi-Jack: has someone implemented an exploit for those yet or did they just prove the existence of the flaw? 23:46 < revel> peetaur: But I write my own policies for SELinux :< 23:46 < savethegibbons> Dbus and the X11 server are quite soft targets tbh. In theory untrusted software could definitely cause problems on Linux. In practice, it just doesn't happen 23:46 * stevendale is on Windows XP 23:46 < Psi-Jack> justin^^^: Not sure yet. Definitely potential attacks are being developed and weaponized though. 23:46 * stevendale stopped caring about being hacked a long time ago... just plays games and IRC 23:47 < Psi-Jack> stevendale: Nobody here cares. No wonder everyone hates you, because you keep talking about using Windows XP> :p 23:47 < peetaur> stevendale: shut down your machine please... it's likely on a botnet 23:47 < devslash> still better than vista or windows me 23:47 < nobrain> and ubuntu 23:48 < revel> I don't know, I'd prefer Ubuntu to XP. 23:48 < bratchley> personally, I use Arch 23:48 < peetaur> especially without Unity, Ubuntu is way better 23:48 < savethegibbons> It has Gnome, that's worse :p 23:48 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, I'd have to agree. Even Ubuntu is better than Windows, let alone Windows XP. 23:48 < revel> Unity's dead. 23:48 < Psi-Jack> And Ubuntu's pretty sour and bad. 23:48 < ozymandias> you can install a real DE on ubuntu 23:48 < peetaur> 14.04 is still supported though...it has to end for Unity to totally die 23:49 < savethegibbons> Unity wasn't that bad honestly *controversial opinion* 23:49 < stevendale> Only another year 23:49 < ozymandias> it took all of the bad parts of gnome and .... made them worse 23:49 < ozymandias> somehow 23:49 < savethegibbons> The only issue I had with Unity was that is was quite depressive 23:49 < stevendale> Unity '2D' was better in 12.04 23:50 < savethegibbons> And would just suicide every so often 23:50 < savethegibbons> And you would have to patch it back together again 23:50 < savethegibbons> Prolong the suffering 23:50 < stevendale> They removed 2D mode in 12.10 and that trashed thousands of graphics cards 23:51 < tvm> what is ubuntu using as default DE these days ? 23:51 < stevendale> A crappy Gnome 3 23:51 < revel> Gnome. 23:51 < tvm> ewww. 23:51 < ozymandias> the attempt to make a unified phone/tablet UI on a PC was just... bad to begin with. They took the worst parts of OSX's UI and mated it with Gnome's worst parts, and then tweaked it to be as bad of a PC UI as possible 23:51 < tvm> gnome sucked since 1.0, i don't think i touched it since then 23:52 < tvm> KDE2 totally beat it back in the day 23:52 < stevendale> I liked Gnome in Ubuntu 10.04 23:52 < stevendale> o/ 23:52 < peetaur> gnome forced KDE to force Qt to change its license....mission accomplised and gnome became obsolete :P 23:52 < ozymandias> i never understood why distros used gnome as the default 23:52 * Psi-Jack gets the rope and wraps it around savethegibbons's head. 23:52 < justin^^^> the best part about using gnome is that you don't have to spend brain energy processing the top 25% of your screen 23:52 < ozymandias> every major revision was beat by the corresponding KDE release 23:52 < Psi-Jack> Lookie here boys. Time fer a hangin! 23:53 < savethegibbons> I don't use either, but Unity > Gnome 23:53 < tvm> Gnome is just bad, sadly 23:53 < Psi-Jack> Gnome 3 was the first decent gnome. 23:53 < tvm> almost feels like gimp 23:53 < tvm> :D 23:53 < stevendale> XP UI greaterthan Unity greaterthan Gnome 23:53 < shiroininja> gnome 3 isn't bad with some configuration 23:53 < shiroininja> lol XP yeah ok 23:53 < tvm> stevendale: i would agree there 23:54 < Psi-Jack> Though they have been going in a direction with UI stuff that's a bit concerning. but Gnome 3, touch-screen, purely awesome. That I will give them hands down. 23:54 < tvm> but honestly, i've never seen a DE that wouldn't be bad on Linux 23:54 < ozymandias> shiroininja, it would take a lot of 'configuration' to add back in the missing functionality ;-) 23:54 < shiroininja> ozymandias: what functionality is missng? 23:55 < ozymandias> i have not used it in a while, but the control panel used to be missing 75% of the options 23:55 < stevendale> Change the little Windows logo on the start button to a penguin logo and you're good to go o/ 23:55 < tvm> bot once you start using bare tiling wm, you can't go back 23:55 < ozymandias> anything that was 'power user' like... resizing your screen, was missing 23:55 < tvm> s/bot/but/ 23:56 < stevendale> butts :3 23:56 < savethegibbons> Agreed on the window manager thing 23:56 * ninjacoder jopi this/away/Msg :) 23:56 < revel> Shake shake shake. 23:56 < ninjacoder> *pico 23:56 < Psi-Jack> ninjacoder: Eh? 23:57 < ozymandias> *emacs 23:57 < stevendale> pico > nano 23:57 < ninjacoder> yep 23:57 < Psi-Jack> vim > * 23:57 < ozymandias> hold on, let me take off my shoes, so I can use emacs ;-) 23:57 * ozymandias doesnt have enough fingers 23:57 < stevendale> cat, >>, echo, grep > * 23:57 < Psi-Jack> ozymandias: Don't forget to get some councelling from eliza. 23:57 < stevendale> Oh and | less 23:58 < ozymandias> Psi-Jack, emacs is a GREAT operating system, too bad it's just missing a decent text editor 23:58 < peetaur> stevendale: I find awk is also essential for inserting lines 23:58 < Psi-Jack> ozymandias: Yes. It's sad. to have such an OS without a decent text editor. 23:58 < savethegibbons> There's always evil mode 23:59 < peetaur> awk 'NR == 99 {print "new line here"}; {print}' 23:59 < tvm> i tried to get into emacs many years, used xemacs briefly too, but failed 23:59 < stevendale> Emacs evil mode > Windows 23:59 < peetaur> maybe there's a vim plugin for emacs 23:59 < tvm> i think there actually was one 23:59 < stevendale> Is there an IRC client for emacs --- Log closed Fri Apr 13 00:00:00 2018