--- Log opened Tue Apr 24 00:00:56 2018
00:09 < anon9002> My server has suddenly lost SATA connection to the root HDD. This happens occasionally, and I'm moderately confident that if I reboot it, the HDD will come back. The problem is I have no usable commands except bash built-ins, and the machine is about 10000 miles away from where I am. What are my options for rebooting the machine?
00:09 < SporkWitch> jab416171: you mean ssh agent forwarding; read up on that, lots of step-by-steps out there.  also significant security implications
00:11 < l`I^|> anon9002, you could echo magic sysrq commands to reboot
00:11 < qman> anon9002: https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/rebooting-magic-way
00:11 < l`I^|> if they are enabled
00:12 < anon9002> l`I^|: Thank you. I'll try that.
00:12 < l`I^|> qman suggested the same thing, we are borg
00:12 < l`I^|> you're welcome
00:13 < jab416171> anon9002, probably not very helpful right now, but remote control to the UPS/PDU and/or whatever flavor of DRAC/IPMI/iLO the box has
00:13 < l`I^|> anon9002, though don't just echo "b" to the sysrq-trigger
00:14 < l`I^|> do at least s, u, b
00:14 < jab416171> ah, "AllowAgentForwarding yes" is commented out, SporkWitch.
00:14 < SporkWitch> jab416171: yes, it's disabled by default because it has HUGE security implications
00:15 < jab416171> so if I want to use my key to ssh into another box, what should I do then? copy the private key to the jump host?
00:15 < jab416171> which also has security implications
00:22 < drsn0w> What would be the cause for "invalid module format" on the spl kernel module after recompiling?
00:22 < snugger> is there any actual reason why people use Chromium opposed to firefox in Linu?
00:22 < snugger> Linux*
00:23 < rulezzz> hello need to list files from a folder and apply a filter for range of date and the total size of that list How can I that list
00:26 < mawk> all mounted devices in a mount namespaces that got destroyed are free'd, right ?
00:26 < mawk> if it's not the case I've got a hundred overlayfs instances lying somewhere in outer space
00:26 < sauvin> rulezzz, can you explain a bit further what you're looking for?
00:27 < snugger> How many of you have tried Deepin? I checked it out and I was absolutely blown away by it
00:28 < saberu> hey guys
00:29 < saberu> would it be possible to add a script to the .bashrc file so I can log someone's attempt at typing a sudo password? E.g. by overwriting the path to sudo
00:29 < lupine> it's just another debian derivative
00:29 < lupine> which is to say, not as good as debian
00:29 < konimex> snugger: apart from their DE, nothing too impressive
00:29 < uplime> saberu: you could have a different sudo that is invoked, sure
00:29 < snugger> Well, it's a rolling release Debian distro
00:30 < snugger> That's pretty notable
00:30 < uplime> other than modifying PATH, it wouldn't have anything to do with your bashrc though
00:30 < lupine> as I say, not as good as debian
00:30 < snugger> lupine: That's entirely an opinion
00:30 < triceratux> snugger: https://mashable.com/2017/11/15/google-chrome-vs-firefox-quantum/
00:31 < rulezzz> sauvin need list files by date and get the total size of that list I use find to list files and du to get the size of every file
00:31 < lupine> well, yes
00:31 < snugger> triceratux: And that has to do because...? I was talking about Chromium
00:31 < lupine> but it's my opinon
00:31 < lupine> opinion*
00:31 < snugger> And it's a valid one
00:31 < saberu> uplime, sure I just modify the path in .bashrc to execute my hidden sudo script
00:31 < snugger> There's downsides to both
00:31 < saberu> that prompts and logs their password
00:31 < konimex> chromium is essentially chrome
00:31 < lupine> I have the best opinions. all the best ones, with like, opinions and things
00:32 < uplime> saberu: sure
00:32 < saberu> This is ofcourse academic purposes only :>
00:32 < snugger> Debian is probably more stable but uses extremely old packages. Deepin is rolling release and has somewhat up to date packages but might be less stable
00:32 < lupine> s/extremely/somewhat/
00:32 < uplime> note that it will only affect users logged into your account, and not some other acount on that system
00:32 < lupine> it falls out of "stable"
00:32 < djph> ^
00:32 < snugger> The DE is extremely lean though. For what it does it only uses 1% CPU of my ThinkPad X230 and only about 500mb memory usage
00:32 < sauvin> That's Debian's appeal, you see: it's stable.
00:32 < lupine> "only" :p
00:33 < snugger> "For what it does"
00:33 < snugger> :P
00:33 < saberu> uplime it's more case study into this Linux trojan I have reverse engineered and now attempting to gain a full TTY shell as currently it's only giving me a limited shell
00:33 < lupine> for reference, gnome-shell here is more like 150MiB. still atrocious, but not *that* atrocious
00:34 < triceratux> snugger: mainly because theres so little respect for chromium you dont see it compared to firefox as often
00:34 < saberu> so the scenario is I'm an attacker who gained access to this account via a trojan and I'm going to sniff his sudo password
00:34 < snugger> No the entire distro only uses 500mb
00:34 < lupine> odd, you said DE
00:34 < snugger> Well I didn't if you looked back at what I said. "deepin" is different from "deepin desktop" (their DE name)
00:35 < snugger> Confusing naming
00:35 < lupine> <snugger> The DE is extremely lean though. For what it does it only uses 1% CPU of my ThinkPad X230 and only about 500mb memory usage
00:35 < snugger> "for what it does". I wasn't referring to the DE
00:35 < snugger> "it"
00:35 < snugger> I could've worded it better
00:48 < hodapp> blah blah blah, get off my lawn, used to run fluxbox on a machine with 16 MB RAM and a video card that set the smoke alarms off, etc.
00:49 < koala_man> I ran fluxbox for years. What was I even thinking.
00:50 < hodapp> probably "man, I'm so fucking cool, what kind of leather jacket and shades should I buy to go along with this slick desktop theme?"
00:51 < snugger> Is there a good super mario world level editor for Linux?
00:53 < phogg> snugger: run lunarmagic with wine
00:56 < hatp> is it possible to exclude a specific application from openvpn?
00:56 < snugger> How much is WINE a security vulnerability?
00:57 < mawk> it's a tricky question hatp
00:57 < mawk> but yes you can
00:57 < phogg> snugger: it's not
00:57 < hatp> Is it done with openvpn configurations or with the application config?
00:57 < mawk> neither
00:58 < mawk> it's done with your linux ip config
00:58 < phogg> snugger: First of all, Wine not WINE. Wine is not an acronym. Second, it provides a megaton of libraries. They could have bugs, but any libraries could. It's possible to run Windows malware in wine but not easy to do it by mistake.
00:58 < mawk> I believe the best way is to use policy routing to suppress the openvpn interface for a specific cgroup
00:59 < mawk> or a specific UID, maybe simpler, but I don't know if you can match by uid in policy routing
00:59 < mawk> yeah no you can't
00:59 < mawk> so hatp , you have three parts
01:00 < mawk> first, you create an iptables rules to mark packets originating from a particular control group
01:00 < snugger> Doesn't Wine stand for wine is not an emulator?
01:00 < recyclops> snugger: Yes
01:00 < phogg> snugger: No and it never has.
01:00 < mawk> second, you add a policy routing rule that will skip the openvpn interface for packets with the said mark
01:00 < recyclops> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_(software)
01:00 < recyclops> Wine (recursive backronym for Wine Is Not an Emulator)
01:00 < mawk> third, you start your application in the desired control group
01:00 < phogg> it's more just something people say
01:00 < mawk> not so hard overall, you're lucky to have mawk at hand
01:01 < uplime> phogg: the site disagrees with you
01:01 < uplime> https://www.winehq.org/
01:01 < hatp> well thanks, but i have a lot of reading. I'm not familiar with linux ip config settings at all
01:01 < recyclops> From winehq.org: Wine (originally an acronym for "Wine Is Not an Emulator")
01:01 < l`I^|> GNU's Not Unix
01:01 < phogg> uplime: I'll retract that, then. Could be I missed a trick.,
01:01 < mawk> let me try to do an example hatp
01:01 < l`I^|> you missed a wine trick
01:01 < hatp> please
01:01  * uplime hands phogg some coffee
01:01 < hodapp> uhm, Wine has stood for "Wine is not an emulator" since, like, 2001 when I first heard of the project
01:02 < hodapp> and people would always get on your case that IT IS A NATIVE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE WINDOWS API, NOT AN EMULATOR
01:02 < l`I^|> ^ that
01:02 < hodapp> and when I say "people" and "always" I mean something like "one person" and "once"
01:02 < hodapp> but that's not important
01:02 < snugger> Wine is my favorite emulator
01:03 < hodapp> what's your favorite MP3 encoder?
01:03 < recyclops> hodapp: Wine
01:03  * snugger laughs from distance
01:03 < flying_sausages> hey guys I'm getting a "configure.ac:22: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_PATH_CPPUNIT" when trying to build libtorrent, anyone know of a fix?
01:04 < flying_sausages> from what I find people just say "use google" which... is the only thing that comes up in google...
01:04 < phogg> flying_sausages: your autotools version is mismatched with what the code expects
01:04 < flying_sausages> ah that's a good start phogg :)
01:04 < phogg> at least that's *usually* the reason why you get missing macro errors
01:05 < flying_sausages> cheers
01:05 < snugger> I don't use Google because it collects a little bit of user data, I don't use it because DuckDuckGo has advanced so far that it actually shows more accurate search results
01:05 < phogg> snugger: It's not, but if it works for you that's cool.
01:06 < mawk> ok I've done some network lab mimicking your setup hatp
01:06 < hodapp> it's not... what?
01:06 < flying_sausages> phogg, should I be downgrading my autotools..? I'm assuming that's not great practice
01:06 < superboot> Hi all. I'm trying to rename a whole directory tree to fit a naming convention. Using: find . -exec rename-this-file.sh '{}' \;    fails because it starts from the top and works down, so when it hits level 2, the paths are invalid because it's already renamed the directories it trying to go into. How can I get it to work recursively?
01:06 < snugger> google in 2018 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMLxbxCWJ_A
01:06 < snugger> headphone warning at end btw
01:06 < hodapp> flying_sausages: I do believe I recognize your nick
01:06 < hatp> ok
01:06 < superboot> (rename-this-file.sh is a script that mv the argument to some modified name. aka. operates on a single file)
01:06 < mawk> I'll give you the transcript
01:07 < flying_sausages> hodapp?
01:07 < hodapp> flying_sausages: nevermind, I'll redact that
01:07 < flying_sausages> ;)
01:08 < SporkWitch> superboot: there may be a better way, but you could reverse sort the results and then pass that into your rename command
01:08 < superboot> SporkWitch: It may be just that simple... :)
01:09 < hodapp> hm, you'd have to do a reverse topological sort almost, wouldn't you?
01:11 < superboot> hodapp: I don't know what that is, but perhaps, as my attmpt to operate on the reverse of finds list didn't work (with the same failure as before).
01:13 < hodapp> superboot: if you think of the filesystem as a tree, reverse topo sort would be putting everything inside of (sub)directory 'foo' before 'foo' itself
01:14 < superboot> hodapp: How would you ever put 'foo' inside 'foo'?
01:14 < superboot> hodapp: like putting /home inside /home
01:14 < hodapp> superboot: all I mean is, ./foo/file1 would always precede ./foo
01:14 < SporkWitch> superboot: i know my method will work, but there may be a more efficient way; sometimes "good enough" is the right answer, though, as you might spend more time looking for the best answer than simply implementing the good enough one
01:15 < hodapp> the quick-and-dirty way would just be to sort by the number of slashes in the path name, descending
01:15 < flying_sausages> phogg, I'm also getting a "configure.ac:22: warning: macro 'AM_PATH_CPPUNIT' not found in library" when trying to run "autoreconf --force --install", is this the same exact issue?
01:16 < flying_sausages> any suggestions how to fix?
01:16 < superboot> hodapp: Ah, that is sneeky
01:17 < superboot> SporkWitch: Yes, I believe you are right.
01:19 < hodapp> you could: find > files.txt, then: awk -F/ '{print NF-1}' < files.txt > slashes.txt, then: paste slashes.txt files.txt | sort -rn | cut -f 2
01:19 < hodapp> to produce the reverse topo-sorted list
01:20 < superboot> hodapp: Nice! I salute you sir.
01:23 < mawk> alright hatp it works
01:23 < mawk> let me copy-paste you everything
01:23 < hatp> please
01:24 < hatp> i started on my own. so far I have just created a new group
01:24 < hodapp> superboot: working?
01:27 < flying_sausages> can anyone please help me figure out how to achieve the second line of this answer here? https://stackoverflow.com/a/1429962
01:28 < flying_sausages> " [...] To figure out what directory you need to point ACLOCAL_PATH at, you'll have to find the directory that contains the .m4 file that defines AM_PATH_CPPUNIT."
01:28 < mawk> hatp: http://paste.suut.in/iswZlKxW.sh
01:28 < mawk> when I said control group it's not like a normal group, it's something somewhat unrelated
01:28 < mawk> you need to install the cgroup-tools package for my stuff to work
01:28 < mawk> otherwise everything is already there
01:29 < tos9> Hi. Evince just crashed after I'd written like 10 annotations on a PDF -- I don't suppose anyone knows whether/where those might have been stored on disk temporarily?
01:29 < hatp> mawk: is cgcreate anything special or is it a normal unix group?
01:29 < mawk> it's not an unix group, it's a cgroup
01:30 < hatp> not finding that package in the arch repository
01:30 < mawk> hmm
01:30 < mawk> it's the libcgroup package
01:30 < mawk> for arch
01:30 < mawk> cgroups are a hierarchy for processes, that allow to control resources and stuff
01:31 < mawk> like limit I/O speed, disk time, RAM, etc
01:31 < mawk> here I use it to filter network traffic
01:31 < mawk> systemd loves cgroups
01:32  * SporkWitch smells a homework question
01:34 < mawk> it's working hatp ?
01:34 < mawk> you understood what I did ?
01:36 < hatp> I think I understood it. Unfortunately I'm getting the same ip before and after
01:37 < mawk> I don't really know how openvpn sets up its route
01:37 < mawk> I thought it was something as simple as a default route
01:37 < Psi-Jack> It is.
01:37 < mawk> could you show the outputs of ip rule and ip route ?
01:37 < xamithan> Depends how you set it up
01:38 < mawk> in a pastebin
01:38 < Psi-Jack> And you can push routes as well., and rely on openvpn's i-have auto route pushing methods.
01:38 < Psi-Jack> lewdanthrofox: Would you kindly not continue to flood this channel with nick changes?
01:38 < lewdanthrofox> Psi-Jack: alright
01:39 < lewdanthrofox> testing something real quick
01:39 < Psi-Jack> Thank you.
01:39 < sauvin> Test it while you're not in this channel.
01:39 < TEST333> hm
01:39 < Psi-Jack> ^
01:39 < TEST333> It changes no matter where I do it
01:39 < TEST333> Joined #test nad changed it but it still appeared here
01:39 < sauvin> Yup. It changes everywhere, and you're making thousands of people watch.
01:39 < hatp> mawk: https://pastebin.com/QRhZL3YB
01:40 < Psi-Jack> hatp: pastebin.com is frowned upon due to many issues they themselves have caused. Pastes being reformatted, malvertising, adblock blocking, being blocked due to many reasons. See /topic for the channel's official pastebin.
01:40 < sauvin> Plus, pastebin is a dog to load.
01:40  * TEST333 *coughs* may I change my name back to snugger?
01:40 < TEST333> what's an alternative to pastebin?
01:41 < Psi-Jack> TEST333: If you stop changing afterwards, seems fair. And /topic for alternative to pastebin.
01:41 < hatp> I do have tun0 like you
01:41 < sauvin> I like zerobin a lot, and another guy likes to tell people to "command | nc terbmin.com 9999"
01:41 < superboot> hodapp: Your one-liner picked the files/dir in the right order, I just have to monkey with my script to make it only modify the end of it (replace spaces with '-', etc.). So short answer: yes! :)
01:41 < uplime> sauvin: command | curl -sF 'clbin=<-' https://clbin.com :D
01:41 < Psi-Jack> Ugh.. 1.5% left to finish rebuilding my Ceph cluster to 100% Bluestore.
01:42 < snugger> deepin documentation is pretty scarce. I can't seem to find what framework they're using in their programs
01:42 < snugger> DDE is based upon Qt
01:42 < James_Epp> Does this paste make sense to anyone? Windows itself boots with no issue. https://bpaste.net/show/12fa89533ea2
01:44 < mawk> and the output of ip rule and ip route hatp ?
01:44 < uplime> 1``/b 25
01:44 < djph> James_Epp: I'm guessing msft fucked up NTFS somewhere along the way, and it's not been reverse-engineered yet.
01:45 < snugger> Do application frameworks play any significant play in memory/cpu usage?
01:45 < lupine> huge
01:45 < djph> err, gah, shoudl've double-checked the channel :|
01:45 < mawk> you're sure that line succeeded hatp ? [hatp@archPC ~]$ sudo echo 1 > /sys/fs/cgroup/net_cls/novpn/net_cls.classid
01:45 < mawk> if you're not root it won't work
01:45 < koala_man> snugger: yes
01:45 < mawk> you should write it as echo 1 | sudo tee /sys/fs/cgroup/net_cls/novpn/net_cls.classid
01:45 < hatp> mawk: http://paste.suut.in/bdhY0Xk9   . Yeah I made sure net_cls.classid was overwritten
01:46 < koala_man> James_Epp: do you have a /dev/sda4?
01:46 < James_Epp> koala_man: Yes, see gdisk output
01:46 < koala_man> James_Epp: gdisk reads the partition table, it doesn't inspect /dev
01:47 < James_Epp> koala_man: # ll /dev/sda* returns /dev/sda1 through sda4
01:47 < mawk> ok I may have forgotten a bit about the firewall rule hatp
01:47 < mawk> let me try
01:47 < koala_man> James_Epp: did you change the table recently?
01:47 < James_Epp> koala_man: No, this is fresh startup.
01:47 < snugger> koala_man: LXQt seems to prove that statement. LXQt comes with more bells and whistles and a search option in the menu yet Ubuntu uses about 60mb less memory than with LXDE
01:49 < koala_man> James_Epp: freaky. anything interesting in dmesg?
01:50 < James_Epp> koala_man: No, nothing weird in dmesg. HDD came out of a brand new Dell Notebook. I'm trying to do a data transfer from another disk also hooked up to the machine. I'm positive I don't have the disks backwards because one is 500GB and the other (old) is 320GB. A fresh install of W10 was done today on the 500GB.
01:50 < James_Epp> version 1709 or whatever is stable. Fast startup is off, I rebooted and interrupted in UEFI as opposed to a shutdown/hibernate, the whole 9.
01:56 < hatp_> mawk: head to restart, did you paste anything?
01:56 < mawk> no, not yet
01:56 < mawk> this thing was working some time ago, but I can't remember the trick
01:57 < Irbis> Can you see me?
01:58 < snugger> You can't see me
01:58 < Irbis> is the encoding normal?
01:58 < snugger> Yes I can Irbis
01:58 < snugger> And you're looking mighty fine
01:58 < snugger> ;-)
01:58 < Pidgeotto> I can't see you
01:58 < Irbis> rahmat
01:59 < mawk> I think the route cache is scrambling everything hatp_
02:00 < mawk> the kernel selects the wrong source address
02:00  * Irbis went to charge the plutonium in the reactor
02:00 < mawk> I think you'd have better chances with network namespaces
02:00 < mawk> but it's a bit heavier, depending on the point of view
02:01 < mawk> actually with the right mark, the kernel gives me the right route
02:01 < mawk> I don't understand why I doesn't work
02:02 < Abbott> where would I set the font size for urxvt? I tried xrandr --dpi, /etc/X11/xorg-conf.d/90-monitor.xonf, and .Xresources xft.dpi but nothing seems to work
02:04 < mawk> ok yeah hatp_ what I gave you was right
02:04 < mawk> and it's actually curl which is doing funny things with its source ip
02:04 < mawk> if you force it to use the correct interface, it works
02:04 < mawk> sudo cgexec -g net_cls:wgbypass curl --interface enp5s0 api.ipify.org
02:04 < mawk> maybe for your other application you'll have more luck
02:05 < hatp_> after I rebooted, I can't use that new control group at all. weird
02:05 < hatp_> i'll figure it out
02:05 < hatp_> thanks
02:08 < mawk> yeah it's not permanent hatp_
02:08 < mawk> you need to create it again
02:08 < mawk> you can make it permanent using some /etc/cgroups file
02:08 < mawk> I believe in your case, as the openvpn routing is pretty simple, you can hack your way around it using a supplementary user
02:09 < mawk> it would be way simpler, given that you don't have a laptop computer
02:09 < Psilocyber> Is there a trick to getting past the red hat subscription requirement for their RHEL documentation?
02:09 < hatp_> mawk: maybe the step we forgot was updating rt_tables?
02:09 < xamithan> Why don't you get a subscription Psilocyber
02:10 < xamithan> RHEL Dev is free
02:10 < Psilocyber> oh wow derp
02:10 < Psilocyber> sorry lol
02:10 < mawk> no hatp_ it's just if we want a convenience name instead of a number
02:10 < Psilocyber> i thought it was license based for some reason, thanks
02:10 < xamithan> You get one RHEL 7 license
02:10 < mawk> but you can use a separate routing table instead of deleting the openvpn interface, as you're probably reading in your tutorial, yes
02:10 < mawk> but I found it simpler that way
02:12 < mawk> my idea was to assign 4 routes to your normal gateway: 0.0.0.0/2, 64.0.0.0/2, 128.0.0.0/2, 192.0.0.0/2 via 192.168.1.1 dev enp30s0 proto static uid 2000
02:12 < mawk> then you'd create an user with uid 2000, and use that user for programs that would bypass openvpn
02:13 < mawk> well nevermind that, uid isn't applicable to ip route actually
02:13 < mawk> I saw that on android tho
02:14 < Sleaker> is there a link to supported CPU architectures in the kernel?
02:14 < Sleaker> and at which version the support was added.
02:17 < hatp_> mawk: do i need to add myself to the users for that cgroup?
02:17 < mawk> what do you mean ?
02:17 < Sleaker> trying to figure out if I've got a vmware issue or a linux kernel issue.
02:17 < mawk> like, owner of the cgroup ?
02:17 < mawk> it's not mandatory
02:18 < mawk> if you don't you have to use sudo
02:18 < mawk> let's make it work first
02:20 < Bashing-om> Sleaker: For an instance: ubuntu 17.10 -> https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=linux-image-generic&searchon=names&suite=artful&section=all .
02:21 < hatp_> mawk: What about this? https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=226506
02:21 < masber> hi, good morning, I am trying to uninstall mysql8 from my system but it is complaining about some dependencies... https://bpaste.net/show/913d5d8ec4e2
02:22 < Sleaker> Bashing-om: I meant chipset support. IE: skylake, haswell.
02:22 < masber> what would be the best way to move forward?
02:22 < Sleaker> ports is just arm64, amd64, i386 etc.
02:23 < jml2> masber, forward? how about using the right tool in the first place
02:23 < masber> jml2, sorry what do you mean by using the right tool? isnt rpm the right toll for this?
02:24 < masber> you are saying to use the repository manager for this?
02:24 < toothe>  /me is curious
02:24 < toothe> what the...
02:24  * toothe is curious if anyone has created a clone of git.
02:24 < toothe> Not 'git clone', but a clone of the tool itself.
02:24 < jml2> toothe, MS :)
02:25 < jml2> toothe, LOL
02:26 < toothe> Microsoft has one?
02:28 < jml2> they're integrating more and more opensource tools with their development tools
02:28 < jml2> powershell, ssh, ...
02:28 < jml2> old news too
02:28 < mawk> ok I've done it hatp_
02:28 < jml2> toothe, and i've you've been living under a rock last couple days, even a distro as well
02:28 < mawk> add this iptables rule: iptables -t mangle -A OUTPUT -m cgroup --cgroup 42 -j CONNMARK --set-mark 0x80000000/0xFFFFFFFF
02:29 < mawk> and this one: iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -m connmark --mark 0x80000000 -j MASQUERADE
02:29 < mawk> and it looks like it's working on my side
02:29 < mawk> now I've got to go to bed, I'll be here tomorrow if you need
02:30 < jml2> mawk, you should be using an interface with -j MASQUERADE
02:30 < jml2> mawk, I suppose it would be best to use -i and -o if you can use both
02:30 < mawk> here it's special
02:30 < mawk> the goal is to not depend on a specific interface
02:31 < mawk> good night !
02:31 < toothe> jml2: I'm confused, you're saying git is built into powershell?
02:31 < toothe> as in, a clone of powershell?
02:31 < toothe> err, a clone of git
02:31 < toothe> or git itself, refactored slightly for Powershell?
02:31 < jml2> toothe, no powershell is opensource... and I guess ssh is possibly even integrated with it as well.. I dunno...
02:31 < toothe> err, that isn't my question.
02:31 < toothe> I'm asking if git itself has any clones.
02:32 < jml2> toothe, their tools would of course favor VS developers more than anything else.
02:32 < toothe> ie, someone made their own non-GPL program that is compatible with a git repo.
02:32 < jml2> toothe, I suppose it is a "git" for VS-things... so I guess they must of make enough changes from it
02:32 < toothe> ???
02:32 < toothe> Is my question not coming in clear?
02:32 < jml2> toothe, if you mean "git-like" .. then that's something else.
02:33 < jml2> toothe, when you say "clone", it is a derivative product
02:33 < toothe> a clone meaning...it can read/update a git repo, but isn't git.
02:33 < toothe> its another tool called, say, fit.
02:33 < saberu> why can't I ping the Google DNS servers have they moved?
02:33 < toothe> or lit
02:33 < jml2> (as "unix-like" does not mean "unix clone")
02:33 < toothe> saberu: yes, google moved 8.8.8.8 to 1.1.1.1 :)
02:33 < toothe> saberu: joking. I dunno.
02:34 < saberu> even my host suggests using Google DNS servers and it doesn't even work :x
02:34 < meyou^> 8.8.8.8 pings here
02:34 < triceratux> saberu: they work here. maybe itz the end of net neutrality
02:34 < meyou^> sounds like your host's suggestion got you null routed
02:34 < saberu> well i have a 2nd vps on the same host/location and it works
02:34 < ||JD||> 8.8.8.8 was down for me couple hours ago for about 20 minutes
02:35 < saberu> this is a fresh install of Ubuntu it should work fine and it cant even ping the google dns
02:35 < toothe> 1.1.1.1 is much faster, btw
02:36 < saberu> seems i cant ping ANYTHING :(
02:36 < triceratux> ruh roh. look for a 127.0.0.53 in your /etc/resolv.conf
02:36 < saberu> this isn't a DNS issue anymore it's a routing issue
02:36 < l`I^|> hohoho
02:36 < luxio> Where do files for a program go? I downloaded a program that has folder like "src/doc", etc, and has the program binary, but I don't know where to put the folder. I was thinking to put the folder somewhere and create a link in /bin
02:37 < meyou^> hmm what's a better way of saying "Marketing People"
02:37 < meyou^> I wanted to go with Marketeers but apparently it's not a word
02:37 < snugger> Everyone check if you have the file ~/.config/autostart/dbus-daemon.desktop
02:38 < jml2> meyou^, they're called musketeers
02:38 < luxio> meyou^: Merchandising specialist
02:38 < l`I^|> snugger, why, i don't even have autostart
02:38 < l`I^|> i don't use a DE
02:38 < snugger> It's a trojan horse
02:38 < snugger> Apparently
02:38 < snugger> https://github.com/Saren-Arterius/dbus-daemon-trojan-sample
02:39 < triceratux> snugger: never seen it, dont have it
02:39 < snugger> Good
02:39 < snugger> PCLinuxOS community found it
02:39 < snugger> But the forum post was deleted apparently
02:39 < meyou^> sounds like a conspiracy
02:39 < snugger> I don't know what it does. Could somebody skim over the file and see what it does?
02:40 < jml2> snugger, I can
02:40 < jml2> snugger, but you need to give me your ip and your ssh login password first
02:40 < snugger> okie
02:40 < snugger> seems legit
02:40 < jml2> snugger, what's your password?
02:40 < jml2> come on snugger
02:40 < snugger> femboyfoxes233
02:41 < snugger> okie good luck
02:41  * jml2 tries to ssh 75.175.127.210
02:41  * snugger gasps
02:41 < jml2> snugger, I can't login to check your autostart file
02:41 < jml2> that's a bummer snugger
02:41 < snugger> But in all seriousness can somebody see what it does?
02:41 < jml2> oh well
02:41 < jml2> snugger, your ssh needs to be setup
02:42 < meyou^> where are we going to see the contents of this file
02:42 < meyou^> lol
02:42 < snugger> Already said
02:42 < snugger> https://github.com/Saren-Arterius/dbus-daemon-trojan-sample
02:42 < jml2> come on snugger you can do it.. track them down.. I know you can :))
02:42 < snugger> jml2: What are you going on about
02:42 < jml2> come on snugger
02:43 < triceratux> snugger: it does an Exec=/var/lib/kodi/.local/share/accounts/services/dbus-daemon
02:43 < l`I^|> yeah, also in the github are binary files
02:43 < snugger> triceratux: Meaning...?
02:43 < snugger> Wait
02:43 < snugger> Kodi account information?
02:44 < saberu> anything wrong here? https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/GF4sx6QQj8/
02:45 < triceratux> its a 2.1G binary trojan masquerading as a cross between a dbus resource & a kodi resource
02:45 < jml2> saberu, gateway 172.20.0.1  -> should be 172.20.3.1 ,  netmask 255.255.0.0  should generally be 255.255.255.0
02:45 < meyou^> uhh
02:46 < saberu> jml2 interesting these are the suggested settings from the host but I'll certainly try that
02:46 < saberu> though there's no reason gateway and netmask are necessarily those
02:46 < meyou^> there are other networks besides /24's
02:46 < meyou^> lol
02:46 < saberu> not in jml2 world
02:47 < saberu> 172.20.3.1 doesn't seem to exist so i'll leave the gateway for now
02:47 < saberu> the gateway must be correct because I can SSH into the box
02:47 < meyou^> yeah all of that looks fine
02:47 < granttrec> does anyone have a problem with scaling in firefox or chrome in linux? does not seem to scale as well as on windows...
02:47 < meyou^> for a /16
02:48 < saberu> oh nm I got it working, I had the local IP set to the IP that wasn't connected to the floating public IP
02:48 < meyou^> what's the issue @saberu
02:48 < meyou^> oh
02:49 < saberu> yeah it seems like the outgoing traffic is sent to source from the configured local IP by default so if you don't set to the routed one it won't work
02:50 < l`I^|> snugger, https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxmasterrace/comments/7wruj9/psa_i_found_a_virustrojanminer_in_kodi_arch_linux/
02:50 < l`I^|> it's a miner trojan
02:50 < l`I^|> it mines XMR to nanopool, apparently
02:51 < meyou^> wait so is that in the kodi package
02:51 < meyou^> on arch?
02:51 < meyou^> i only read post titles :o
02:51 < l`I^|> more likely coming from a plugin, or possibly a malicious wild AUR package/etc
02:52 < saberu> meyou^, you seem quite knowlegable. I have a Linux trojan with a successful simple shell. I'm trying to get a TTY shell from it any ideas? I've been trying these methods without success - http://pentestmonkey.net/blog/post-exploitation-without-a-tty
02:53 < meyou^> i've fooled another one into thinking i'm knowledgable! *twirls moustache*
02:53 < meyou^> no clue :o
02:53 < saberu> I got the Expect one working, but it required me to install Expect so it's not very 1337 way
02:54 < jml2> saberu, I only see 1 network on that pastebin
02:54 < jml2> hhmpphm
02:54 < saberu> jml2 yeh i had 2 local IP's I had to set the other one, rookie mistake
02:54 < jml2> ,/16 is still 1 network
02:55 < jml2> you need to use the same subnet as your router
02:55 < Sleaker> hmm okay, what's the correct way to import gpg1 keys into gpg2
02:55 < Sleaker> gpg --import --batch doesn't work.
02:55 < jml2> otherwise your router won't work properly with a different subnet
02:55 < saberu> this is what the Expect script does btw 'spawn sh' anyway to do that from bash? hmm
02:57 < rasputozen> i just learned the joys of tar -u
02:58 < jml2> rasputozen, gross -u
02:58 < jml2> mwah
02:59 < rasputozen> ?
02:59 < Mistell> Anyone know how to make compton not reat all gnome-terminals as the same as far as active/inactive transparency goes?
02:59 < jml2> tar&feathered
02:59 < Mistell> treat*
03:01 < jml2> triceratux, that deepin linux has gotten some flak for its new cnzzz tracker, what do you make of it?
03:04  * jml2 https://www.linuxuprising.com/2018/04/gksu-removed-from-ubuntu-heres.html
03:04 < triceratux> jml2: ya know i never get far with deepin. i just downloaded their liveiso & its only 400M but it still hangs qemu-kvm & requires a warmboot. from an appearance viewpoint it gets good reviews
03:04 < jml2> gedit admin:///etc/file  ... that's gunna get taking used to...
03:05 < triceratux> jml2: im not going to miss gksu but its going to take years to find all the *.desktops its already in in the various repos
03:05 < jml2> triceratux, quids on yt gives interesting valid points as to why this is a bad thing...
03:06 < jml2> triceratux, the deepin team responded on their forum after many users watched his video criticizing this new tracker..
03:06 < jml2> triceratux, .desktop? juse use apt-file search .desktop XD
03:07 < triceratux> jml2: im just too oldfashioned i guess. i run altlinux so i can be tracked by the russians & not the chinese
03:07 < jml2> triceratux, if you want to find all well supported desktops that have an entry for the display manager, i tend to use -> apt-file search /usr/share/xsessions
03:08 < triceratux> jml2: im already in the habit of symlinking gksu to sudo on distros where theyre not paying attention to begin with
03:08 < jml2> triceratux, if you want to modernize that you should be using something with pkexec...
03:09 < triceratux> im no fan of polkit either. dont need it modernised. need it executable
03:10 < jml2> triceratux, I don't like too many things loaded with user desktops so I find these ways and document them in my zimbook :p
03:10 < jml2> triceratux, lots of documentation going outdated
03:11 < blaztek> jml2: what’s a zimbook?
03:11 < jml2> blaztek, it's an application I use to take notes in tree-like fashion.. it can do internal symlinks...
03:11 < jml2> blaztek, has plugins too which makes things interesting... I have a zotero plugin with it..
03:11 < Bashing-om> triceratux: In my use case it is ' sudo -H ' that works for me rather than 'gksu' .
03:12 < jml2> blaztek, (apt-cache show zim)
03:12  * jml2 ( http://zim-wiki.org/index.html  )
03:12 < blaztek> jml2: thank you!
03:12 < jml2> blaztek, its cross platform which  makes it ideal..
03:13 < jml2> blaztek, and stores things in text, so if you ever need to use something like "grep -ri" you can do so right inside the command line
03:13 < triceratux> jml2: yep im a fastidious documentor. i try to solve the right problem & not have to solve it twice http://pastebin.centos.org/703441/raw/
03:14 < jml2> triceratux, what tool is that?
03:15 < jml2> triceratux, .cod ..
03:15 < triceratux> jml2: my own convention for wrapped ascii files rofl. i call them "computer oriented documents"
03:16 < triceratux> basically the exact opposite of a *.doc
03:16 < jml2> triceratux, if you want something light-weight and has a markdown previewer, you can get something with geany+the markdown plugin.. it runs much faster than "atom"
03:17 < Dan39> notepad++ :D
03:17 < jml2> triceratux, the nice thing with zim is I can paste pictures, and it makes a .png copy of it in a folder, it does not "embedded" the picture data with the document, so this way it can keep the format very neutral... away from .doc-like things
03:18 < jml2> triceratux, (I can see the picture visually -- but in storage format it does not get embedded)
03:18 < jml2> triceratux, great for documenting things from pdfs as well., i can copy text, or I can whip out "shutter" and draw a box to grab a picture and throw that into the zim :P
03:19 < jml2> triceratux, had to fix my mariadb replication today.. got me my old notes from an myql zimbook
03:20 < blaztek> jml2: I’m going to try it
03:20 < jml2> triceratux, documentation for advanced projects are clustered everywhere... snips and tips and put it into 1 quick outline where I can easily see http:// clickable things.. makes it easier than using bookmarks on dah webbrowser
03:21 < triceratux> jml2: i dont do any of that. i just format html by hand with any conventional editor. keep all my bookmarks as html pages as well so all the browsers can see them
03:21 < jml2> blaztek, you might also like cherrytree
03:22 < jml2> blaztek, but what makes zim different is you can have internal symlinking for the nodes on the left pane which has the tree nodes.. this makes it convenient for learning complex subjects...
03:22 < jml2> triceratux, if you want a better tool for that, you should be using zotero.. keep the bookmarks webbrowser-agnostic :p
03:23 < jml2> triceratux, and it also supports note-taking along with it :) .. I have array of bookmarks for different subjects --- eg, it has a "profile selector" like firefox -- as it is also based off zul..
03:23 < jml2> xul things XD
03:25 < blaztek> jml2: I’ll try cherrytree too but I think zim with zotero might be better
03:27 < jml2> triceratux, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tllqWzO8Bqw   quidsup made a video and deepin rushed to make a response on people worried about the new tracker they injected
03:27 < jml2> triceratux, if you're interested
03:28 < jml2> blaztek, zotero is good, you can have multiple profiles... here I use different profiles for different subjects of interest..
03:29 < jml2> blaztek, i just tested my zotero plugin  and it still works here with zim.. it really is great..
03:30 < luxio> is there a way to get xfce to look like it's not from the late 90s
03:30 < jml2> blaztek, there's more functionality than I'm ever really going to need...  put docear into all of that and you got a great library control workflow right there..
03:31 < jml2> luxio, I given up on xfce XD... ask the muscovite  :)
03:31 < granttrec>  /j #firefox
03:32 < triceratux> luxio: configure the panel & add a dock http://i.imgur.com/x9JXnYb.jpg
03:33 < luxio> triceratux: can't tell if opensuse or debian jesse
03:33 < triceratux> luxio: actually thats porteus with jessie & opensuse branding. you can have it all with linux ;)
03:34 < LaTeX_GIMP> triceratux, you use Xchat and not Hexchat?
03:34 < jml2> LaTeX_GIMP, i bet he uses hexchat
03:34 < LaTeX_GIMP> for a GUI IRC?
03:35 < jml2> LaTeX_GIMP, I know I do
03:35 < triceratux> LaTeX_GIMP: not any more. ive managed to get hexchat kludged in to even the few remaining xchat distros
03:35 < jml2> LaTeX_GIMP, i used to use xchat.. but hexchat came out to be faster for me
03:35 < Psi-Jack> fio's giving me reports of 1GB/s read speeds from RBD disks. 144MB/s on CephFS. 144MB/s writes on RBD, 85MB/s writes on CephFS.
03:35 < Psi-Jack> Wow..
03:37 < LaTeX_GIMP> Xchat now wants some gnome related stuff, and libunity stuff
03:38 < LaTeX_GIMP> in ubuntu at least it is packaged as gnome-xchat too
03:39 < Psi-Jack> https://paste.linux-help.org/view/b17cf336  --  This is pretty dang impressive! :)
03:43 < jim> LaTeX_GIMP, just so you know, xchat is old, and has been superceeded (or maybe forked) into a project called hexchat, which you could get and build... also, since you have a debian deriv, it can build debianized sources into debian packages, which you could then install
03:43 < markasoftware> so, I have a VM with a /64 ipv6 block assigned to it, and I'm trying to figure out how to use most of the ipv6 addresses
03:43 < markasoftware> i know for server software, i can specify the IP address to "bind" to
03:44 < markasoftware> how do I do this for outgoing requests? eg curl? How can I make the request seem like it's coming from a certain one of my assigned IPs?
03:44 < jim> markasoftware, one way, you could have a dhcp server hand out addresses from some or all of the range you have
03:44 < rypervenche> markasoftware: You need to assign the IPs you want to use to your interface(s) and then set in your applications to be used.
03:45 < Dan39> markasoftware: well if actually using curl, maybe try --interface ?
03:45 < markasoftware> oh, --interface supports an IP
03:45 < markasoftware> that's nice
03:45 < markasoftware> but if I want support in an application without such an option, I would just have to make a separate interface and assign the IPs to that? sounds good
03:45 < jml2> markasoftware, you want to nat ipv6? mwahaha
03:46 < Dan39> and --dns-interface dont forget
03:46 < tds> for other applications that don't provide control you could probably do policy routing stuff, but that's a bit nasty
03:46 < sauvin> I think it likely hexchat is already in Debian repos.
03:46 < Dan39> was going to say that next, you could route based on some rules like port or destination ip
03:46 < markasoftware> thanks everyone
03:46 < jml2> jim, hexchat is built for debian so upstream doesn't need .tar things..
03:47 < jml2> jim, i started using it couple years back after getting pretty tired of xchat hanging on me tehehe
03:47 < jml2> ahh the memories
03:48 < jml2> from x to hex..
03:48 < tds> personally I wouldn't bother using multiple v6 addresses for different services on the same VM - having a /64 is much more useful when you want to address lots of individual VMs or containers though
03:50 < jim> jml2, as you may know, a debian source package usually has one or two tarballs, maybe a diff and usually a .dsc (so, usually 2 - 4 files)
03:52 < sauvin> I never used to have any problems with xchat hanging on me unless I did boneheaded things with scripts, but when I first started using hexchat, I had an AWFUL time with it.
03:53 < toothe> err...how do you have xargs with an argument in the middle?
03:53 < jml2> sauvin, i recall i did not go directly from xchat to hexchat
03:54 < sauvin> jml2, what did you do?
03:54 < jml2> sauvin, it was flakey back and forth and took me a second opinion to look at it again
03:54 < jim> sauvin, what kind of awful time?
03:54 < jml2> sauvin, been on irc & linux for quite some time
03:54 < jml2> sauvin, turned out after time hexchat got much better
03:55 < sauvin> Yeah, it did. Jim, I had all kinds of hangs and crashes.
03:55 < jml2> sauvin, like fedora, which was garbage for many years... imho only got good starting from its 23rd release
03:55 < jml2> and ubuntu which only got good around its 15th release
03:55 < jml2> but some projects fail to improve
03:55 < sauvin> How long ago was that 23rd release?
03:55 < jml2> :)
03:55  * jml2 used fedora 4 up to 11.
03:56 < jml2> fedora used to be crap...
03:56 < sauvin> I gave up on Fedora somewhere around 2006 or so, I think, been Ubuntu and Debian ever since.
03:56 < pxfgod> Are there cmdline argv* informations or any environment variables in a core dump file??? If so, how to retrieve them?
03:57 < jim> pxfgod, what was the program that generated the dump?
03:58  * sauvin taps fingers
03:58 < jim> hmm, someone's tapping my fingers
03:59 < sauvin> ::tap:: ::tap:: ::tap::
04:00 < pxfgod> jim, user mode processes run with different cmdline arguments. I can't tell them from core.37713,  I can't read information from pid 37713. I need the cmdline arguments, by which I can decide why it crashed.
04:01 < jim> do you know which pricess and which program ran in it?
04:01 < evanesoteric> I have a shell script that I would like to limit the CPU usage of. Can I pipe the entire script over cpulimit? for example: sh script.sh | cpulimit --whatever-here?
04:02 < jim> that would pipe the output of the script to cpulimit
04:03 < evanesoteric> Thank you jim, that deff jumpstarts my research.
04:03 < ananke> evanesoteric: you'd run the script with cpulimit
04:04 < sauvin> pxfgod, does running 'strings core.37713 | less' do anything useful?
04:04 < evanesoteric> Ahh, I get it. Thank you ananke! So very appreciated!
04:05 < pxfgod> jim, I ran several instances(with different arguments) of same program(written by me). I can't tell which arguments lead to crash.
04:10 < triceratux> jml2: fedora was actually tolerable starting with f19 & of course ubuntu 14.04 was a highwatermark for canonical products. theres still better things to come however
04:11 < pxfgod> sauvin, Yes useful.
04:12 < pxfgod> sauvin, but too large information. I need cmdline arguments only.
04:12 < dogbert2> wlan0: flags=4099<UP,BROADCAST,MULTICAST>  mtu 1500
04:12 < dogbert2>  inet 192.168.1.55  netmask 255.255.255.0  broadcast 192.168.1.255
04:13 < sauvin> I've not even SEEN a core dump in many years and don't really know how to cause one in order to see.
04:13 < dogbert2> google 'how to make a core dump in linnux'
04:13 < sauvin> pxfgod, does your process crash immediately?
04:19 < drwhite> Hi folks
04:19 < drwhite> Anyone here know about the T530 and how to get Linux to utilise more than 3 monitors?
04:19 < drwhite> As in use the on board as well as the discrete?
04:20 < saberu> hey guys can somoene tell me why it says no such file or directory? ./srv/sites/bitvapor/vendor/workerman/phpsocket.io/examples/chat/gtrans/trans
04:20 < drwhite> Hope someone can help please, I've been giong round and round in circles for days.
04:20 < saberu> but it works if i type ./trans
04:20 < drwhite> do a "pwd"
04:21 < saberu> pwd shows /srv/sites/bitvapor/vendor/workerman/phpsocket.io/examples/chat/gtrans
04:21 < xamithan> Just passthrough one of the cards to a VM
04:22 < sauvin> saberu, in your fully qualified path, what happens if you ditch that initial dot?
04:23 < saberu> oh damn sorry im such an idiot
04:23 < saberu> the dot is the same as pwd :(
04:23 < drwhite> happens to us all.
04:24 < sauvin> No need to be sorry. Happens to me all the time.
04:33 < baiguai> ^^
04:37 < alexey-nemovff> hi folks
04:38 < MACscr> i need to install debian using a windows share for the iso (installing using virtual media with an ip kvm). I dont have server at the datacenter to do this from. Should i be able to get samba to publicly share the iso over wan?
04:41 < Pentode> hi
04:46 < LaTeX_GIMP> Greetings Pentode
04:47 < avis-> MACscr there used to be grub pacakges to boot from a real iso on linux
04:49 < MACscr> avis- i dont think you fully grasped the situation
04:49 < avis-> i'm sorry i don't know
04:55 < drwhite> Anyone have any idea about Multi-Monitors for Linux relating to the T520?
04:59 < jmadero> https://pastebin.com/F45mZgbZ - this script isn't tagging my files right, wondering if someone sees why
04:59 < jmadero> I swear it was working, can't figure out what broke
04:59 < drwhite> Spaces aren't escaped?
04:59 < Psi-Jack> T520?
05:01 < drwhite> yes
05:01 < drwhite> T520
05:02 < Psi-Jack> Make is important here.
05:05 < drwhite> sorry, T530
05:05 < drwhite> Lenovo
05:05 < Psi-Jack> Ahh, Lenovo.
05:05 < drwhite> yes.
05:05 < Psi-Jack> That, I can't help with.
05:06 < drwhite> HP?
05:06 < Psi-Jack> Pretty much I could help with any make not Lenovo.
05:06 < autopsy> What's with a Lenovo? Chinese?
05:07 < Psi-Jack> It was IBM, but it was sold off to a Chinese company that has scarred its name for life.
05:07 < autopsy> I remember the IBM ThinkCentre desktop computer that's like ages old now.
05:08 < autopsy> And Compaq Presario.
05:11 < drwhite> HP Elitebook 8460p, I want to use more than 2 screens. How can I achieve this with only an intel i7-2620M ?
05:11 < drwhite> Is there a way to do this via linux to make it not care and just use  whatever it detects?
05:12 < Psi-Jack> And how do you plan to plug these multiple screens in? ;)
05:12 < drwhite> I plug it in and the system picks it up and displays it.
05:12 < drwhite> 1xDVI, 1x VGA, 1 Internal
05:12 < drwhite> I don't have the DP plugged in
05:13 < drwhite> It may be a hardware fully limitation that has no work around, but I thought I would ask.
05:13 < _stuart> uhm
05:13 < _stuart> what?
05:14 < _stuart> oh ok. More then 2 screens
05:14 < Psi-Jack> From what I see, that only has VGA and DP. It has DVI as well?
05:14 < _stuart> with docking station yes
05:14 < _stuart> docking station will give you 2 x digitial
05:14 < _stuart> and you MAY be able to use laptop screen + 2 external
05:15 < _stuart> we do three screens on all the ZBooks anyway
05:15 < _stuart> can't remember if the 8440/8460 could do it
05:15 < drwhite> the 8460p has an intel ship that says it can only use 2, that's why I am asking if there is a workaround.
05:15 < _stuart> <- long time HP user
05:15 < _stuart> dr: ok, likely no then
05:16 < Psi-Jack> Yeah. I was imagining the same thing, dock with two displays, MAYBE the laptop screen as well, but not much mroe on its own.
05:16 < _stuart> dr: maybe a USB vga adapter...
05:16 < drwhite> Even if DP?
05:16 < _stuart> dr: as a 3rd interface
05:16 < _stuart> I think the chipset only gives you two... DP + laptop, or 2 x digital on a docking station (DP or DVI)
05:17 < drwhite> Can I chain DP?
05:17 < _stuart> I've got some docks with 2 x dp, some with 2x dvi
05:17 < _stuart> I don't think so
05:17 < drwhite> not on the 8460p?
05:17 < Psi-Jack> No, you can't.
05:17 < _stuart> some of the monitors have an out, but that just gives you same image as displayed on it
05:17 < drwhite> Damn limitations of this laptop. lol
05:17 < _stuart> well, to be fair, it's 10 years old
05:17 < Psi-Jack> What do you expect? It's a laptop. :)
05:17 < drwhite> Okay, if I had the 8560p with intel + nvidia, would it be possible?
05:18 < _stuart> it's an OLD laptop ;)
05:18 < _stuart> lol
05:18 < drwhite> At least it doesn't force you to use UEFI
05:18 < Dagmar> Laptops generally just _don't_ drive three displays
05:19 < drwhite> If the intel chip handles 3, and the nvidia handles 3,  I shuold be able to have 6
05:19 < drwhite> ?
05:19 < _stuart> drwhite: no
05:19 < _stuart> 3.
05:19 < Psi-Jack> I managed to use three displays with a MBP. Two external DP->DVI and the laptop display itself.
05:19 < drwhite> What about with an Optimus GPU?
05:19 < Dagmar> You can't use the two GPUs separately
05:19 < sauvin> Sounds to me like a recipe for porn overload.
05:20 < Dagmar> Just go buy some USB-connectable displays
05:20 < drwhite> With Windows I have 3 displays + LCD.
05:20 < drwhite> And that is on the T530
05:20 < mutante> true, monitors with USB-C now
05:20 < drwhite> the Intel chip handles 3
05:20 < drwhite> But I can have 4 displays
05:20 < Dagmar> With Linux I can have basically as many displays as I'd like with some extra thin clients
05:20 < drwhite> That is why I was curious
05:21 < drwhite> Because linux only allows 3
05:21 < Dagmar> It doesn't mean a chipset designed for driving only two displays is going to be able to run six of them
05:21 < Dagmar> Uh no, I've set up multi-card rigs with 6 screens on them before
05:21 < _stuart> drwhite: so, why don't you just use the T530 then?
05:22 < drwhite> Because I don't use it.
05:22 < Dagmar> It's actually reasonably straightforward, although that definition of "reasonably straightforward" should be weight against that it required one to actually understand X server configs well enough to explain the hardware to it
05:22 < Dagmar> s/weight/weighed/
05:22 < drwhite> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/multihead
05:22 < drwhite> That is one I looked at the config.
05:22  * sauvin "explains" it with a clenched fist, a sour look and lots of foul language
05:22 < drwhite> They specify the GPU and the Display
05:23 < drwhite> Is that an option these days?
05:23 < Dagmar> sauvin: Yeah there was that before I learned how to write xf86config files
05:23 < _stuart> well, in any case, the intel and nvidia/ati displays have to be switched/share same output lines.. you can't haev them both driving displays at the same time
05:24 < Dagmar> If you have just, a ridiculous amount of money, I hear AMD now makes a USB-C _external_ GPU
05:24 < sauvin> o.O
05:24 < _stuart> dagmar; yeah, usb's an option...
05:24 < _stuart> assuming you can find one that works right anyway
05:25 < Dagmar> ...or just buy some cheap mini boards, shove a low-end video card and an 80Gb drive in them and use them as x terminals
05:25 < _stuart> yeah , really sounds like a use case for a desktop
05:25 < drwhite> I have IBM external monitor adaptors, to have 2 DVI monitors on each. but they do not want to work
05:26 < Dagmar> drwhite: The chipset actually has to have enough power to drive the signal generators
05:26 < Dagmar> drwhite: For much the same reason you can do 4k with some video cards, but only at 30fps because the HDMI controller _isn't fast enough_
05:26 < drwhite> even if it is a USB3 external GPU addition box?
05:27 < Dagmar> If you buy an external GPU that will run another display just fine
05:27 < mutante> take the desktop and then make it "portable" for a lot of money and then re-add external hardware for more money and then dont move it
05:27 < Dagmar> I've no idea if Xorg supports those yet tho
05:28 < drwhite> mutante: lol
05:28 < _stuart> likely will have issues... 8460 will be usb2.0 only
05:28 < Dagmar> drwhite: Like, the wife has a pair of rather nifty 4k displays, but her nVidia 750's DVI chips can't do _two_ 4k displays at higher than 30fps, but since she's a graphic designer it's fine
05:29 < drwhite> _stuart: 8460p is USB3
05:29 < drwhite> left side = 2xUSB3 ports
05:30 < drwhite> https://www.cnet.com/products/hp-elitebook-8460p-14-core-i5-2520m-windows-7-pro-64-bit-4-gb-ram-500-gb-hdd-series/specs/
05:30 < _stuart> ah ok, cool
05:30 < drwhite> Not the exact machine.
05:30 < drwhite> But harware in general for the board is riht
05:30 < _stuart> maybe I'm think 8510
05:30 < drwhite> right
05:30 < _stuart> I had those too
05:31 < drwhite> ahh
05:31 < _stuart> with bluray drives lol
05:31 < drwhite> 8560 is the big broher of this one with discrete graphics
05:31 < drwhite> 8560p
05:33 < drwhite> if I have discrete graphics can i target GPU to monitor?
05:33 < _stuart> k. yeah I only had 8440p no the 60p
05:33 < _stuart> so, we didn't have usb3 anyway...
05:33 < _stuart> until the 8570w
05:33 < _stuart> those were my favorite
05:34 < _stuart> repair guys hated them though
05:34 < autopsy> I got an Intel Integrated GPU.
05:34 < drwhite> ahh okay
05:35 < drwhite> yeah, I wish I had discrete. would have made life so much easier. lol
05:35 < drwhite> I'm trying to find a decent laptop to upgrade to, but they don't seem to make them any more
05:36 < LaTeX_GIMP> there was talk of NERF or Linuxboot (as in the UEFI replacement) on chromebooks, anyone familiar>
05:36 < LaTeX_GIMP> last time i heard it was WIP
05:37 < mutante> drwhite: Thinkpad X1 carbon?
05:37 < drwhite> X1 isn't good enough
05:37 < _stuart> drwhite: I'm thinking about switchin to lenovo...
05:37 < drwhite> unless they are making a better one than they did?
05:37 < saberu> can someone help me with this regex? no one is replying :(
05:37 < _stuart> drwhite: HP's had some really poor quality control anyway...
05:37 < LaTeX_GIMP> I was also after a decent laptop soon for my travels
05:37 < mutante> drwhite: there is "gen 1" through "gen 6" or so
05:38 < saberu> i want to match either a sentence that includes chinese characters as well as others. or includes alphabetical characters (and others)
05:38 < saberu> basically detecting language
05:38 < mutante> drwhite: "gen 6" is the new 2018 model it looks
05:38 < saberu>  /*.(\p{Han}).*/ this is for chinese
05:38 < drwhite> gen 6 still crap
05:39 < drwhite> 16GB max RAM
05:39 < mutante> well, it's meant to be ultra-portable and business
05:39 < mutante> so you won't find 3D power i guess.. but fair
05:39 < Aegon> Idk if this is the right place to ask or not. So I installed Manjaro alongside Win10 but I set a different boot/efi partition for Manjaro. Because it has been said that 100mb isn't enough for Linux efi. Anyways my bios completely ignores the second efi partition and only recognizes the original one which windows is on. Idk what to do.
05:40 < drwhite> Does not say if it has BIOS or not.
05:40 < drwhite> So it may not have a BIOS. So it's useless. Unless I completely rewrite the UEFI.
05:40 < drwhite> If I do that I lose support.
05:40 < mutante> what do you mean by support ?:)
05:41 < _stuart> I'm not following either
05:42 < mutante> the hardware vendor support just means they replace it if it breaks physically right? i mean you are going to format the Windows they ship it with, right
05:43 < _stuart> kind of sucks having to put windows back on to get hardware vendor to repair...
05:43 < Aegon> So... nobody can help me?
05:43 < _stuart> reading
05:43 < jab416171> Aegon, resize the first one, or move the windows files to the second one and delete the first one
05:43 < jab416171> you really only want one ESP
05:44 < mutante> they never made me install Windows or even cared to boot it beyond the password prompt for disk encryption
05:44 < mutante> but i was only there once for a hardware recall.. once in many years
05:44 < _stuart> mmm, yeah I don't dual boot either... not sure
05:45 < mutante> i am really wondering what "support" means, i mean have you ever called Lenovo and had them help you with an issue with your laptop?
05:45 < drwhite> Altering the firmware voids all warranty and support
05:45 < drwhite> I have
05:45 < Aegon> jab416171, is it guaranteed that wouldn't just make the whole unusable? Like would it even boot after doing that?
05:45 < _stuart> drwhite: so does not having windows on it when they want to confirm you have the right versions of drivers adn whatnot
05:45 < mutante> drwhite: and they were able to help and it wasn't related to the OS ?
05:46 < drwhite> no, firmware, not software
05:46 < drwhite> UEFI is software but also the firmware side.
05:47 < Aegon> If there was a decent gaming support on Linux, most dual booting issues would have gone away.
05:47 < drwhite> remove windows and go linux, that is what i want
05:48 < mutante> "X1 Carbon 6th Gen seems to be BIOS locked to 33W"  i guess this means it does have a BIOS ? :)
05:48 < drwhite> They do call UEFI a BIOS too. so need to be careful there.
05:49 < drwhite> Amazon Alexa, so that means it bad
05:49 < mutante> go to a Gaming cafe and rent the Windows PCs with latest hardware by the hour, always latest hardware when you need it, others figure out driver isseus etc
05:50 < _stuart> ... my understanding of it is UEFI is just a different kind of bios.. both are firmware.
05:50 < _stuart> you're not modifying the firmware...
05:51 < mutante> when does soft turn into firm? when it's soft you "install", when it's firm you "flash"
05:52 < _stuart> soft means it's on your secondary storage/ram.
05:52 < _stuart> firm, means it's persistent, embededde into the system, controllers, etc.
05:52 < _stuart> it gets a little grey in some cases
05:53 < _stuart> Compaq used to store bios code on the hard disk
05:53 < jab416171> Aegon, I haven't booted back in to windows in months
05:53 < jab416171> then again I've been mostly playing my xbox
05:53 < _stuart> back pre-y2k
05:54 < jab416171> mutante, there's still gaming cafes?
05:54 < mutante> jab416171: yea, right below where i live. "still"?  seems more than in the past
05:55 < jab416171> there was one I went to all the time
05:55 < mutante> not everybdoy can or wants to afford a 2k dollar gaming PC with latest hardware for casual gaming, there is lots of demand for using them by the hour.. replaces traditional arcade?
05:55 < jab416171> iirc, they had a $50 for 50 hours promotion
05:55 < jab416171> that I bought once or twice
05:56 < jab416171> now they're gone though
05:56 < mutante> it seems pretty attractive to me to always play on modern graphics card without having to replace it
05:58 < drwhite> _stuart: if i am not modifying the firmware when I said I would be, then what is it if I rewrite the UEFI?
05:58 < Dagmar> "A very long research project"
05:58 < mutante> middleware between software and firmware
06:03 < drwhite> so altering the UEFI chip is only software?
06:06 < Some1NamedNate> Is there an easy way to install a single package in Clear Linux?
06:12 < epicmetal> So, ntfs-3g breaks hard links. Anyone else seen this
06:13 < epicmetal> e.g. 5 hardlinked files, replace one file and the remaining files don't reflect the new content
06:13 < epicmetal> Deleting and re-linking fixes it
06:13 < epicmetal> Or is it just that I'm using Nautilus on top of ntfs-3g
06:14 < epicmetal> ?
06:14 < Triffid_Hunter> epicmetal: could be nautilus, try from terminal
06:18 < epicmetal> Triffid_Hunter: the bug is with Nautilus
06:18  * epicmetal shakes fist at the Linux desktop
06:19 < siwica> Why does grep show lines like "systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/mpd.socket: No such file or directory" when doing a grep on /etc?
06:19 < siwica>  
06:20 < sauvin> What, exactly, are you grepping on?
06:20  * LaTeX_GIMP makes another drink
06:21 < epicmetal> LaTeX_GIMP: pour one for me
06:21  * epicmetal slaps bar
06:22 < Triffid_Hunter> siwica: dead symlinks? you can pipe stderr to null if you don't wanna see 'em
06:22 < LaTeX_GIMP> epicmetal, i hope you like organic cocoa with oat milk
06:22 < Johnjay_> any idea why mkfs.ext4 would fail with a cryptic warning about having "trouble" writing superblocks?
06:22 < epicmetal> LaTeX_GIMP: never tried oat milk
06:23 < karthyk> eww i don't like the taste of oat milk
06:23 < Triffid_Hunter> Johnjay_: check dmesg
06:24 < LaTeX_GIMP> karthyk, which milk do you like the taste of?  i ran out of almond milk
06:24 < LaTeX_GIMP> no cow tits in here sorry
06:26 < epicmetal> cow milk is best milk
06:26 < karthyk> badam milk
06:29 < LaTeX_GIMP> epicmetal, but why drink your own mothers milk after infanthood, let alone the milk of another species
06:29 < LaTeX_GIMP> but for survival
06:29 < Johnjay_> does the adduser command do the same as usermod -a -G?
06:29 < Johnjay_> i see both ways used to add a user to a permissions group in linux
06:30 < LaTeX_GIMP> they can both achieve the same thing Johnjay_
06:31 < ananke> Johnjay_: adduser is a distro specific command
06:31 < LaTeX_GIMP> karthyk, is badam milk basically almond milk?
06:31 < siwica> Triffid_Hunter: ah, that might be the case... Any program that gives a report on dead symlinks?
06:31 < karthyk> yes
06:31 < Johnjay_> ananke: oooh ok
06:31 < karthyk> in indian speak its badam milk
06:32 < LaTeX_GIMP> you have good taste!
06:32 < LaTeX_GIMP> ah, i see, i just know saag is spinach and a few other things
06:32  * Sveta joins #latex
06:33 < ananke> siwica: find . -xtype l
06:36 < masber> good afternoon, what does this permission means? chmod ogu+x
06:36 < masber> ogu??
06:36 < siwica> ananke: thank you!
06:38 < Ben64> masber: other, group, user
06:38 < masber> thanks!
06:39 < LaTeX_GIMP> anyone here familiar with the old Japanese Fujitsu FM TOWNS PC from 1989?  I am trying to find an obscure debian distro for it http://ftp.jp.debian.org/debian-jp/dists/potato-jp/main/disks-towns/ [404]
06:39 < Johnjay_> i know you can still get debian 4 images from archive.org, that's about it
06:40 < LaTeX_GIMP> yeah i checked there, they have some JP distros, but not the TOWNS specific one
06:40 < LaTeX_GIMP> or at least i checked the debian archives, sorry i thought you mean that, misread
06:43 < LaTeX_GIMP> http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley-SanJose/8280/debian/index.html i think i may be able to piece this together
06:54 < alexey-nemovff> masber: same as a+x
06:58  * dell00 loves LaTeX.
06:58 < mutante> loves Goretex
06:59 < jcarpenter2> PHP is alright
07:00  * mlu loves both Goretex and LaTeX
07:01 < epicmetal> LaTeX_GIMP: because it tastes good
07:01 < LaTeX_GIMP> Johnjay_, actually turns out that an FM towns collection i recently got from archive.org has 2 linux distros and a "GNU for Towns Release 2" https://image.ibb.co/bCSUOc/towns.png
07:02 < LaTeX_GIMP> but not the obscure debian version :( ... i will try these for now though
07:02 < Johnjay_> i don't even know what a towns pc from 1989 is
07:02 < LaTeX_GIMP> i doubt the debian mirrors for the apt repos will work still
07:03 < notmike> You can't understand gentoo if you don't smoke weed
07:03 < LaTeX_GIMP> Johnjay_, it is a magnificent piece of technology and was way ahead of its time
07:04 < pxfgod> sauvin, Yes, crash immediately.
07:04 < mutante> notmike: lol, cause only then time slows down enough to get it compiled within a day?
07:04 < LaTeX_GIMP> in 1989 it had a vertical CD drive mounted, 2 floppy drives, and the OS booted live from CD which other OSes did not start doing until around 8 years later
07:04 < pxfgod> I wanna know what contents core.pid files include.
07:04 < notmike> mutante: exactly
07:05 < sauvin> pxfgod, launch the process from a script that logs what arguments are supplied.
07:05 < notmike> I compiled gentoo at this chicks house and I swear time stopped. I was like girl I'm too high stop, think kernel ain't never gonna compile
07:05 < LaTeX_GIMP> not to mention the Yamaha sound chip, same one used in megadrive, the graphics modes available, and ability to overlay 2 modes at the same time, etc
07:06 < LaTeX_GIMP> it was proprietary, not IBM PC compatible
07:07 < epicmetal> notmike: did you proceed to argue with her about which DE/WM to install?
07:07 < notmike> No way, she was dti3
07:08 < LaTeX_GIMP> it has CD versions of games that did not have CD versions in the west (everyone here were still using floppies), or no release in the west at all
07:08 < epicmetal> notmike: eh?
07:08 < notmike> Down to i3
07:08 < epicmetal> haha
07:08 < epicmetal> I don't get i3
07:09 < notmike> Once you get the keyboard shortcuts it's pure ecstacy
07:09 < epicmetal> notmike: that's what annoys me about it
07:09 < epicmetal> notmike: $mod+h or something causes the current window to go into a subcontainer
07:09 < epicmetal> I don't get why that's there, not to mention the "take out of subcontainer" binding isn't bound by default
07:09 < notmike> It's not that bad. I probably only use a handful anyway
07:10 < pxfgod> sauvin, suppose my progame is a.out,  I wrote a shell script "for i=1 to 10  do a.out x=$(i)".  Only one of 10 instances crashed, and produced the coredump. However, all processed are terminated now, I want to retrieve the cmdline "x=$(i)" to tell which i leads to crash. How
07:10 < epicmetal> So I'm always hitting $mod+h and getting angry
07:10 < notmike> Yeah that's frustrating
07:10 < epicmetal> Thank god finally someone else agrees with me
07:10 < epicmetal> I felt like I was taking crazy pills
07:10 < epicmetal> Also, subtly changing the vim keys was just evil
07:10 < epicmetal> But besides that it was okay I guess
07:11 < epicmetal> Except you need a mouse to confirm WM exit by default, lol
07:11 < sauvin> pxfgod, as I understand it, a core dump is exactly that: an image of the process space at the moment the process dropped core. I don't know nearly enough about how such images are organised to know how to help you find what you're looking for.
07:12 < epicmetal> notmike: which filemanager and volume mounter do you use with i3? I always miss Nautilus
07:12 < sauvin> pxfgod, what language is your program written in? Can you maybe gdb it?
07:12 < notmike> epicmetal: great question. I should know but don't
07:15 < pxfgod> sauvin, written in C++. I dare to say, core dump must include information of the launch cmdline.(because I use "strings core.pid | grep x=" and find the result). But how can I retrive the whole cmdline-arguments via gdb. "strings" is not a common resolution.
07:16 < sauvin> What you're asking for, if I'm understanding this properly, is this: "where in the process image is ARGV stored?" I don't know.
07:17 < sauvin> You may not find the cmdline itself, in fact.
07:19 < pxfgod> sauvin, I just want to retrieve ARGV from a core.33127, to figure out process 33127's ARGV.
07:22 < aBound> Howdy doo, do. :P
07:28 < iman> Hi, what are the number in parenthesis like SEE ALSO        unlink(1), unlink(2), chattr(1), shred(1)
07:28 < [R]> iman: man page section
07:29 < iman> [R]: what does that mean?
07:29 < [R]> iman: a man page can have multiple sections
07:29 < [R]> the number indicates which section of the man page it is reffering to
07:29 < iman> [R]: oh okay, thanks
07:32 < autopsy> iman, section 2 is like system calls see: man 2 fork
07:33 < autopsy> That will open fork() fromm section 2 of the manual pages.
07:33  * aBound hides in the dark corner
07:41 < CrazyTux> do other flavours of Ubuntu 18.04 like Xubuntu, Ubuntu Mate, Kubuntu also collect user data?
07:41 < LissajousPattern> man this is awesome
07:42 < autopsy> CrazyTux, I didn't know Ubuntu collected user data.
07:42 < epicmetal> Unity used to
07:42 < epicmetal> https://fixubuntu.com/
07:43 < f-a> I am using curl -d to do a post request, and it is working correctly. How to display the response code?
07:43 < CrazyTux> https://fossbytes.com/ubuntu-data-collection/
07:43 < epicmetal> autopsy: it was easy to fix, unlike Windows 10
07:43 < [R]> f-a: -v
07:43 < f-a> thanks [R]
07:44 < autopsy> epicmetal, never heard of it. Doesn't Uganda own Ubuntu now?
07:44 < autopsy> Canononical I mean.
07:45 < LaTeX_GIMP> CrazyTux, is that an extension of ye olde `popularity-contest` package?
07:45 < CrazyTux> https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/02/ubuntu-data-collection-opt-out
07:46 < epicmetal> autopsy: rofl
07:46 < aBound> Collecting data oh noes I wonder which distro doesn't collect some sort of anonymous information.
07:46 < epicmetal> aBound: almost all other distros
07:46 < epicmetal> Except this whole FWUPD thing, which is concerning
07:46 < LaTeX_GIMP> yup
07:47 < LaTeX_GIMP> a lot of people probably have been using popularity-contest without even realising it though
07:47 < LaTeX_GIMP> for years
07:47 < aBound> epicmetal, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal:PrivacyPolicy
07:47 < sauvin> I fixed it. I tried to use Unity, I really tried and tried. After about 20 minutes, I said "!@%@#$@#" and then I said "apt-get install kde". Byebye Unity, and byebye so-called spyware.
07:47 < LaTeX_GIMP> "The popularity-contest package sets up a cron job that will periodically anonymously submit to the Debian developers statistics about the most used Debian packages on this system"
07:47 < LaTeX_GIMP> that applies to Ubuntu and other debian derivatives
07:48 < LaTeX_GIMP> its old
07:48 < CrazyTux> what about the Amazon web app in Ubuntu?
07:48 < CrazyTux> will 18.04 also have it?
07:48 < notmike> If you're using Ubuntu you're doing it wrong
07:48 < LaTeX_GIMP> CrazyTux, anyone who used Unity was crazy in the first place
07:48 < sauvin> CrazyTux, that was an Ubuntu thing.
07:48 < sauvin> More specificallym, a Unity thing.
07:48 < CrazyTux> I have never used Unity.
07:48 < CrazyTux> not even once.
07:48 < notmike> Slackware or gtfo
07:49 < epicmetal> aBound: doesn't the fwupd data go to a 3rd party, not Red Hat?
07:49 < sauvin> As I understand it, no, Ubuntu won't have it again. They took a BEATING over what they did with Unity, and they're not likely to want to repeat the experience.
07:50 < Sveta> someone needs to stop outputting arbitrary distro preferences out of context
07:50 < lordvadr> epicmetal: I don't really understand your question.
07:50 < epicmetal> notmike: building packages as root is kinda gross
07:50 < CrazyTux> btw, anybody using or has used Ubuntu Mate LTS? is it normal for it to take more time to boot compared to other flavours lik Xubuntu, Lubuntu?
07:50 < aBound> epicmetal, I don't see any "fwupd" information being listed on the page. Then again, you never know what gets collected.
07:51 < lordvadr> epicmetal: I don't know what you mean by "fwupd data".
07:51 < epicmetal> https://fosspost.org/analytics/privacy-security-concern-regarding-gnome-software
07:51 < epicmetal> lordvadr & aBound ^
07:51 < aBound> epicmetal, Checking and I figured you may have meant this: https://github.com/hughsie/fwupd
07:51 < LaTeX_GIMP> any Gnome after Gnome 2 is cancerous by design
07:52 < epicmetal> aBound: yeah
07:52 < aBound> Reading...
07:52 < LaTeX_GIMP> i stopped using Gnome after Gnome 2
07:53 < lordvadr> epicmetal: I don't understand what that has to do with Red Hat though. Gnome, maybe. I didn't read the whole thing. What is Red Hat being accused of?
07:53 < notmike> CrazyTux: one must assume the lightweight display managers and de play some part, in addition to truncated set of utilities
07:53 < epicmetal> lordvadr: I didn't say it had anything to do with Red Hat
07:53 < lordvadr> epicmetal: "doesn't the fwupd data go to a 3rd party, not Red Hat?"
07:53 < aBound> "According to fwupd.org/privacy, some parts of this data is being shared by 3rd-party hardware vendors, who may be interested in the number of people downloading these updates and what kind of Linux distros they are using. IP addresses are not shared, but client user-agent & hashed machine IDs are. This privacy policy is guaranteed by the developer himself, not a company or an organization."
07:54 < epicmetal> lordvadr: exactly, *not* Red Hat
07:54 < lordvadr> Ah. Got it.
07:54 < aBound> Interesting, perhaps it's for fixing hardware bugs.
07:54 < lordvadr> Yeah. Listen, full disclosure, I work for Red Hat, though not officially as a dev.
07:54 < lordvadr> But it's usually a legitimate telemetry thing.
07:54 < LaTeX_GIMP> 1"As per your convenience, you can opt-out during the installation. An option to do the same will also be made available in the Privacy panel of GNOME Settings." LMAO
07:54 < hans__> does flock() survive reboots? o0
07:55 < epicmetal> "usually"
07:55 < lordvadr> I don't get a say on how frequent.
07:55 < [R]> hans__: try it and see
07:55 < lordvadr> I do think we're pretty good about it.
07:55 < epicmetal> lordvadr: the issue is that some GNU/Linux package is silently uploading data.
07:56 < lordvadr> hans__: No, it does not.
07:56 < LaTeX_GIMP> it's fingerprinting
07:56 < LaTeX_GIMP> at the OS level
07:57 < lordvadr> epicmetal: Don't get too upset. There are more of those than you'd think. I don't like them any more than you do.
07:57 < LaTeX_GIMP> that's a large dataset they are gathering
07:57 < LaTeX_GIMP> they throw in the "No IP data collected" to try to quell fears and arguments about privacy violations
07:57 < aBound> Generally, most if not all these sites tend to have a "privacy policy."
07:57 < epicmetal> lordvadr: I'm not upset, I'm concerned. And the fact that there are potentnally more packages doing it is even more -- not less -- reason to be concerned.
07:57 < LaTeX_GIMP> with that dataset and machine ID hash, it's still direct fingerprinting
07:58 < aBound> Seems Novell has one too: https://www.suse.com/company/policies/privacy/
07:58 < lordvadr> epicmetal: I agree with you. It's awful. Mozilla started doing it not all that long ago.
07:58 < epicmetal> Yep.
07:58 < epicmetal> It's gross.
07:58 < epicmetal> I'm surprised there isn't a cross-distro fork yet, which just fixes privacy and nothing else
07:59 < LissajousPattern> thank goodness for ##linux
07:59 < aBound> As long as you're connected to your ISP you won't be truly secure. :D
07:59 < lordvadr> Now, let me be devil's advocate for a second. That data is probably actually collected with the primary purpose of makign the software better, and not, say, selling your click behavior to the nearest buyer.
07:59 < prillian5> how can I print one image in Linux multiple times on a Din A4 paper (like Stickers)
07:59 < aBound> you are**
07:59 < lordvadr> But still.
07:59 < epicmetal> aBound: with that attitude I may as well just run Windows 10
08:00 < LaTeX_GIMP> it's not about security, it's about fingerprinting and analytics
08:00 < LaTeX_GIMP> privacy
08:00 < epicmetal> Exactly.
08:00 < [R]> prillian5: open office
08:00 < hexnewbie> prillian5: Press the print button multiple times? Or add it to a DIN A4 Inkscape/Scrubus document and layout it multiple times on the page? Depending on what you mean...
08:00 < aBound> epicmetal, Teehee you can then again that's like spyware to the max. Remember the NSA did invent SELinux.
08:00 < LissajousPattern> no more throttling over 4g for me this is bad ass. and I didnt even have to use a VPN.
08:01 < mutante> prillian5: or you can copy/paste in Gimp
08:01 < epicmetal> aBound: I don't understand the first sentence. As to the second, so what?
08:01 < prillian5> I don't wan't to insert the image mutliple-times to a Din A4, only choose the source image, say how often appears on the paper and press print
08:01 < aBound> epicmetal, As long as you're using Windows 10 I'm sure there's nothing but privacy concerns.
08:01 < epicmetal> aBound: exactly
08:01 < lordvadr> aBound: Go read the NSA book on selinux. It's rather clear that they don't understand it all that well either.
08:02 < epicmetal> As to SELinux, I don't use it, mostly because RPM documentation sucks.
08:02 < TheDcoder> Hello, I am trying to mount an NTFS partition and give access to that to a non-root user, currently I am using su to switch to root and running the mount command, when I switch back to non-root user I cannot access the mounted directory, any tips?
08:02 < hexnewbie> prillian5: That made the question less clear, tbh. All print dialog boxes have number of copies in them. For batch processing, perhaps you can whip up something with convert/pdfnup/pdfbook, etc.
08:02 < prillian5> [R]: hexnewbie mutante ... like this: https://www.tutonaut.de/anleitung-passbilder-zum-ausschneiden-ausdrucken-irfanview/
08:02 < hexnewbie> prillian5: Or ImageMagick alone, really
08:02 < lordvadr> TheDcoder: You're doing that wrong.
08:03 < aBound> epicmetal, The point being that NSA probably actively develops SELinux and given the source code is available to see you can't keep track of it all.
08:03 < prillian5> https://www.tutonaut.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/passfotos_03-1.jpg
08:03 < TheDcoder> lordvadr: Can you suggest me a better workflow?
08:03 < lordvadr> TheDcoder: You want to have mount options....nope.
08:03 < epicmetal> aBound: I don't consider SELinux untrustworthy
08:03 < aBound> lordvadr, Teehee maybe the veteran's may understand it better then the new devs.
08:04 < aBound> epicmetal, Since Gnome is developed by Red Hat and SELinux was developed by the NSA and Red Hat do you consider it untrustworthy.
08:04 < TheDcoder> lordvadr: I have looked at the mount options but there doesn't seem to be any useful ones available for NTFS :-/
08:04 < lordvadr> eh, it's also the new kids that don't understand that that people care what the software is collecting.
08:04 < epicmetal> aBound: no
08:05 < mutante> TheDcoder: add the mount into /etc/fstab and use the "user" setting on that line
08:05 < aBound> epicmetal, That tool you mentioned a few minutes ago was integrated within Gnome that collects data I wouldn't give SELinux to much credit.
08:06 < TheDcoder> I don't really want to mess around with the fstab as my work flow is somewhat "complex"
08:06 < epicmetal> aBound: parse error
08:06 < aBound> Wasn't apparmor developed by Novell.
08:06 < mutante> TheDcoder: "mess around" = "tell it what to do" :)
08:06 < hexnewbie> prillian5: Or open with GIMP, Filters → Map → Tile
08:06 < TheDcoder> I want to be able to give a non-root user to a mounted folder, is there any other way to this?
08:06 < mutante> you want to tell it to let users mount it, so there is an option for that, exactly that
08:06 < prillian5> got it, thank you
08:06 < [R]> TheDcoder: mount the ntfs with uid=blah
08:07 < mutante> TheDcoder: yes, "user - Permit any user to mount the filesystem. This automatically implies noexec, nosuid,nodev unless overridden. "
08:07 < aBound> Let's code some SELinux: https://www.nsa.gov/what-we-do/research/selinux/
08:07 < lordvadr> TheDcoder: As root, somehow, you're going to have to bless this users access to the mount.
08:07 < TheDcoder> [R]: I thought it would not work for NTFS, I will try, thanks
08:08 < [R]> TheDcoder: thats one of the only filesystems that uid means anything
08:08 < aBound> [R], Where's the RC Cola. :P
08:08 < omkarnathsingh> Hi all. I am new here :D
08:08 < TheDcoder> oh
08:08 < Pentode> sit back and strap in
08:10 < TheDcoder> How did I miss uid under "mount options for ntfs", silly me
08:10 < hexnewbie> [R]: adfs, affs, debugfs, devpts, msdos/fat/vfat, hfs, hpfs, iso9660, udf, ntfs, tmpfs? ;p
08:10 < TheDcoder> thanks [R]
08:10 < aBound> I am off to Wonderland, enjoy all...:P
08:10 < [R]> hexnewbie: lol
08:11 < sauvin> Isn't there some kind of "option users" thing for mount?
08:11 < TheDcoder> yes, but you need to mess with the fstab file sauvin
08:11 < TheDcoder> it lets non-root users mount some partitions I think
08:13 < hexnewbie> Holy cow, Linux supports a truckload of filesystems. At least ext (ext1?) is no longer supported, but whatever, minix thankfully still is :)
08:17 < TheDcoder> uid works!
08:17 < TheDcoder> nice
08:18 < CrazyTux> does Mageia have a sufficiently large community?
08:19 < epicmetal> CrazyTux: big communities: Debian/Ubuntu, Fedora/CentOS/RHEL, Gentoo, Arch Linux, Slackware
08:20 < vlt> Hello. When I start my X session there's a screen saver set to 600 seconds timeout. Does anyone know where those "600 seconds" value comes from in the first place? Anything I could change other than running an "xset -dpms ..." command everytime (by putting it into .xsessionrc, for example)?
08:20 < CrazyTux> epicmetal, ok
08:21 < LissajousPattern> peace
08:21 < [R]> vlt: the efault
08:21 < [R]> default*
08:22 < Aph3x-WL> since when does slackware have a big community?
08:22 < epicmetal> Aph3x-WL: since it is one of the most forked distros
08:22 < epicmetal> Aph3x-WL: Debian, Fedora, Gentoo, Arch Linux and Slackware are the most forked
08:22 < epicmetal> The rest are just derivatives
08:23 < Aph3x-WL> forked doesn't mean the original has a big community
08:23 < vlt> [R]: Where is that default value set?
08:23 < [R]> vlt: in the code
08:23 < epicmetal> True, but when you consider Slackware and all its forks, it adds up
08:23 < vlt> [R]: Aaah, makes sense now :-)  Thanks!
08:23 < epicmetal> Admittedly, Slackware is probably the smallest of the "big" communities
08:24 < blaztek> Slackware hasn't had an update since 2016, yes?
08:24 < Aph3x-WL> slackware just had a huge update a few days ago
08:24 < blaztek> oic
08:25 < [R]> YUGE
08:25 < epicmetal> Aph3x-WL: isn't 14.2 the most recent release? "current" isn't really a release
08:25 < [R]> what update is that?its not on the website
08:25 < epicmetal> Well, it's a rolling release, so yeah, there's that
08:25 < blaztek> Wikipedia has said 2016 for many months
08:25 < blaztek> lol
08:26 < vlt> So it must be true.
08:26 < epicmetal> CrazyTux: but you could use Mageia and grow its community by one ;)
08:26 < CrazyTux> epicmetal, ok. lol.
08:26 < blaztek> vlt: exactly :)
08:27 < TheDcoder> Is using my login/desktop manager to switch users better than just switching to a different virtual console and doing su other_user startx?
08:28 < TheDcoder> oops, I mean switching to another console and using startx as other_user
08:28 < [R]> TheDcoder: well do you want a grahpical envrionment in that new user, or do you want a cconsole?
08:28 < epicmetal> TheDcoder: if you're going to do that, probably do "exec startx"
08:28 < TheDcoder> I need a graphical environment
08:28 < epicmetal> for more security
08:29 < [R]> TheDcoder: neither is "better"...
08:29 < TheDcoder> oh, how is exec more secure epicmetal?
08:29 < epicmetal> TheDcoder: because someone can't switch to the console and CTRL+C the startx script
08:29 < Aph3x-WL> [R]: i was referring to the mass rebuild ftp://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/slackware/slackware64-current/ChangeLog.txt
08:29 < TheDcoder> Ah, makes sense, thanks
08:29 < [R]> Aph3x-WL: wake me up when their website isn't old and outdated
08:29 < Aph3x-WL> you're going to be sleeping a very long time :P
08:30 < epicmetal> It hasn't been properly updated ever
08:30 < [R]> because slckwar stopped being relevant like 15 years ago?
08:30 < epicmetal> At least not visibly
08:30 < [R]> tell me aboot it
08:30 < epicmetal> Maybe they use it as a noob repellant
08:30 < blaztek> YUGE is right, Aph3x-WL
08:31 < alexey-nemovff> noob repellant.. lol
08:31 < Aph3x-WL> last i checked the only people still using slackware are decrepit neckbeards who pop out on occasion to say arch sucks before heading back to their caves
08:31 < epicmetal> :)
08:31 < alexey-nemovff> lol
08:32 < TheDcoder> Can I have as many virtual consoles as I can given I have enough resources?
08:32 < [R]> TheDcoder: sure
08:32 < epicmetal> Aph3x-WL: it's a good option if you don't like systemd and don't mind building untrusted 3rd party packages as root
08:32 < alexey-nemovff> I haven't used Slackware.. but I see many love it while many others hate it
08:32 < TheDcoder> thanks, was curious
08:32 < epicmetal> Also, if you don't care about PAM
08:32 < [R]> pam pam... pam pam
08:32 < epicmetal> Or having three package managers
08:32 < epicmetal> Or not being able to do a minimal install easily
08:33 < epicmetal> But yeah it's pretty good besides that
08:33 < CrazyTux> probably Linux Mint is the most popular and most widely used distro.
08:33 < Aph3x-WL> i haven't used slackware in around 2 decades but it was my favorite for a long time
08:34 < epicmetal> CrazyTux: no
08:34 < Aph3x-WL> i'm not sure i could do it now looking at how 90's they still are
08:34 < CrazyTux> is Mint not Ubuntu done right?
08:34 < Boyeto> Running amdgpu on archlinux (the opensource driver), is it possible to install the proprietary (amdgpupro) driver in a docker container to run opencl apps?
08:34 < epicmetal> CrazyTux: I'd trust Ubuntu over Mint
08:35 < Boyeto> CrazyTux: Yes, mint is ubuntu done right
08:35 < Aph3x-WL> fedora is ubuntu done right
08:35 < [R]> with exta ccrappy security!
08:35 < Boyeto> and I recommend it for most desktop users
08:35  * [R] giggles
08:35 < blaztek> epicmetal: I will admit, I like Ubuntu's and Debian's xfce4 better
08:35 < Boyeto> (unless they need the latest stuff)
08:35 < alexey-nemovff> Linux Mint may be the most popular.. but I think it's farther the most used one
08:35 < blaztek> epicmetal: than Mint I mean
08:35 < epicmetal> Boyeto: Mint is not Ubuntu done right
08:35 < epicmetal> Aph3x-WL: Feodra is not Ubuntu done right
08:36 < TheDcoder> Is it possible for a bad executable to use sudo gain root privileges easily?
08:36 < Boyeto> epicmetal: when I moved to mint from ubuntu, it was Ubuntu minus amazon search minus that horid unity UI
08:36 < Aph3x-WL> i don't know what feodra is so i can't agree or disagree
08:36 < epicmetal> Boyeto: plus security issues
08:36 < Boyeto> Aph3x-WL: fedora is Redhat's testing ground
08:36 < Ben64> if you want ubuntu - amazon search - unity, you can do that with ubuntu
08:36 < [R]> TheDcoder: if your sudoers file is crap... sure
08:36 < alexey-nemovff> CrazyTux: neither Ubugntu nor Mint are done right due to systemd
08:36 < Aph3x-WL> Boyeto: i know what fedora is, i run it :P
08:37 < epicmetal> Fedora is okay if you can stand RPM
08:37 < blaztek> alexey-nemovff: agreed
08:37 < Boyeto> I use rpm at work (centos) and it's fine
08:37 < Aph3x-WL> fedora has given me the best experience any distro has for plasma so i can't complain
08:37 < TheDcoder> [R] assuming the user who ran the executable is able to use sudo from terminal to elevate privileges
08:37 < Boyeto> to be honest, fedora, ubuntu, mint, are all good
08:38 < [R]> TheDcoder: well if it propts for a password, then nothing an app can do is going to stop taht
08:38 < CrazyTux> but, with Fedora one has to upgrade frequently.
08:38 < Ben64> Boyeto: except mint, sure
08:38 < CrazyTux> it has a short release cycle.
08:38 < TheDcoder> oh, can I make sudo prompt for password? did not know that
08:38 < Boyeto> Ben64: I like mint the most out of those distros
08:38 < Boyeto> but have moved to arch now
08:38 < [R]> TheDcoder: thats the default...
08:38 < epicmetal> CrazyTux: you can get a year out of it, just use every second release
08:38 < Boyeto> mint was polished and low maintenance
08:39 < TheDcoder> Apparently not in Fedora [R]...
08:39 < [R]> TheDcoder: very much so in fedora
08:39 < omkarnathsingh> I use Ubuntu because it is easy
08:39 < Ben64> no security = low maintenance?
08:39 < CrazyTux> epicmetal, then we have to install it afresh?
08:39 < TheDcoder> The how come I can just do sudo mount without entering any password?
08:39 < Boyeto> Ben64: lol. Mint is sufficiently secure
08:39 < epicmetal> CrazyTux: they have an upgrade tool called fedup, although I've never lasted long enough with a Fedora install to get to use it
08:40 < TheDcoder> *Then
08:40 < CrazyTux> epicmetal, ok
08:40 < [R]> TheDcoder: its either cached or you chnaged somethign
08:40 < Boyeto> there was an incident with their isos / web hosting a year or 2 ago though, I'll give you that Ben64
08:40 < TheDcoder> Well I did select my user to be an administrator during installation
08:40 < epicmetal> Don't they also hold back security updates
08:41 < Ben64> yeah
08:41 < [R]> TheDcoder: that just allows you to use sudo
08:41 < epicmetal> i.e. by default
08:41 < alexey-nemovff> omkarnathsingh: and buggy
08:41 < TheDcoder> Hmmm
08:41 < Ben64> they just disable updates that cause issues with their kludges
08:41 < Boyeto> anyway, does anyone know about my docker + amd question?
08:41 < omkarnathsingh> alexey-nemovff: True :( but i had tried Fedora and got confused how to install apps.
08:42 < TheDcoder> It just outputs a "You will have recieved this lecture from admin, with power comes responsibility yada yada" message when you use sudo for the first time
08:42 < [R]> omkarnathsingh: <package manager> install <package>... the same on any sane dist
08:42 < LaTeX_GIMP> as much as people criticize ubuntu and i agree the vanilla desktop version is a pile of bloatware-mutating-into-spyware, i still use ubuntu minimal server installations, and install using the old text installation, it is very good that way
08:42 < LaTeX_GIMP> ie:  bare bones, then install what is needed from there
08:42 < CrazyTux> TheDcoder, which distro?
08:42 < TheDcoder> Fedora
08:43 < CrazyTux> ok
08:43 < talx> hello folks
08:43 < Boyeto> [R]: except arch where it's <package manager> -S <package>
08:43 < [R]> Boyeto: i did say sane...
08:43 < Boyeto> lol
08:43 < TheDcoder> arch is insane
08:43 < blaztek> hi talx
08:44 < omkarnathsingh> [R]: yup. Ubuntu i get latest apps. Fedora has few crucial apps not updated.
08:44 < Boyeto> arch is beyond sane
08:44 < LaTeX_GIMP> ubuntu server minimal is the only sane way to install ubuntu in my experience
08:44 < [R]> omkarnathsingh: like what?
08:44 < LaTeX_GIMP> via text installation
08:44 < talx> I was wondering as managing linux system what can I do if I find high usage of cpu or stuff like - after using htop and tools that give me stattistics
08:44 < vlt> LaTeX_GIMP: debootstrap works fine for me for years.
08:44 < omkarnathsingh> [R]: like Firefox beta or nightly. Its hard getting regular of its updates.
08:44 < [R]> talx: fix the program using the cpu?
08:44 < [R]> omkarnathsingh: thats crucial?
08:44 < [R]> lol
08:45 < omkarnathsingh> LaTeX_GIMP: I had tried minimal one. Its good utility for power users :D
08:45 < autopsy> google-chrome-beta is a good replacement for Firefox.
08:45 < CrazyTux> which one would you recommend for a fully functional user friendly desktop? xfce or mate?
08:45 < CrazyTux> does xfce lack some features?
08:45 < TheDcoder> autopsy, chromium you mean
08:45 < omkarnathsingh> i hate chrome for eating my RAM :(
08:45 < Boyeto> CrazyTux: KDE
08:45 < Boyeto> lol
08:46 < TheDcoder> technically it's Plasma
08:46 < alexey-nemovff> omkarnathsingh: since 2015, it was the last time I used Ubugntu.. it was so buggy and a can bet you it still is..
08:46 < TheDcoder> KDE Plasma :P
08:46 < epicmetal> CrazyTux: if you want disk indexing, GNOME is your only choice
08:46 < LaTeX_GIMP> vlt, debootstrap is cool
08:46 < Boyeto> Canonical are more focsued on Ubuntu Server and cloud computing now
08:46 < omkarnathsingh> alexey-nemovff: I agree. There are countless bugs. Somehow I am managing my life and bugs xD
08:47 < vlt> CrazyTux: I've been using MATE for some time now and it works.
08:47 < LaTeX_GIMP> alexey-nemovff, ubuntu desktop vanilla is buggy and bloated, not minimal server installation
08:47 < Boyeto> I'd still highly recommend Linux Mint 18 + Cinamon for a beginner
08:47 < omkarnathsingh> Boyeto: because that gives them lots of money :P
08:47 < LaTeX_GIMP> and if you know what you are doing from there
08:47 < Boyeto> omkarnathsingh: exactly
08:47 < Boyeto> I use it for my masternodes and it's a great server OS
08:48 < epicmetal> LaTeX_GIMP: except if you install the desktop, you install the bugs
08:48 < LaTeX_GIMP> though, via dependency on systemd now, it inherits some systemd related bugs
08:48 < CrazyTux> ok
08:48 < epicmetal> I love the one where systemd takes 90 seconds to timeout on a failed unit stop on shutdown
08:48 < LaTeX_GIMP> epicmetal, when you say "the desktop", what are you referring to
08:48 < epicmetal> (you can tweak the system.conf to fix)
08:48 < LaTeX_GIMP> if you mean GNOME, etc the same bugs would apply on any other distro
08:48 < epicmetal> LaTeX_GIMP: the default Ubuntu desktop
08:49 < epicmetal> LaTeX_GIMP: yes, but you said Ubuntu desktop vanilla is buggy and bloated
08:49 < epicmetal> not talking about other distros
08:49 < LaTeX_GIMP> yes, but from server minimal installation, one can install any DE or WM, no need for the default desktop or wasting time gutting it out
08:49 < Boyeto> I don't frequent this chan. Is it usually just arguments about distros? lol
08:49 < Boyeto> feels like I'm reading HackerNews comments
08:50 < Ben64> it happens a lot
08:50 < epicmetal> Boyeto: no, but it's fun when it is :)
08:50 < Boyeto> lol
08:50 < LaTeX_GIMP> it's more of a discussion than an argument
08:50 < epicmetal> LaTeX_GIMP: agreed, but if you want whatever the default desktop is (Unity or GNOME), then you're going to get the same bugs, because it's still Canonical's build/packaging
08:50 < Boyeto> epicmetal: Yeah, I got sucked into this one a bit and it was kind of fun
08:50 < LaTeX_GIMP> saying macroshit or microshaft may cause hostility and arguments for some reason
08:50 < alexey-nemovff> CrazyTux: Xfce IMHO lacks some features/components
08:50 < alexey-nemovff> compared to Mate
08:50 < Ben64> you got your kali people, you got your anti-ubuntu people, you got a bit of everything here
08:51 < epicmetal> Haha
08:51 < CrazyTux> ok
08:51 < epicmetal> MATE is a better choice I'd say, but damn are they both ugly by default
08:51 < epicmetal> Even all their default theme options suck
08:51 < blaztek> alexey-nemovff: I thought Xfce was supposed to be lacking...light weight, yes?
08:51 < LaTeX_GIMP> XFCE is amazing
08:51 < LaTeX_GIMP> how dare you
08:52 < Ben64> it's boring
08:52 < LaTeX_GIMP> Linus used XFCE last time i checked, but that was some time ago
08:52 < epicmetal> It's Xfce, not XFCE
08:52 < epicmetal> LaTeX_GIMP: he uses GNOME on Fedora
08:52 < LaTeX_GIMP> ><FC3
08:52 < epicmetal> Lol
08:52 < LaTeX_GIMP> well he did dabble with XFCE before
08:52 < LaTeX_GIMP> *last time i checked*
08:53 < epicmetal> There's a video where it shows his office
08:53 < epicmetal> Damn is it messy and noobish
08:53 < epicmetal> Everything on reddit.com/r/battlestations kills it
08:53 < epicmetal> And probably even /r/averagebattlestations
08:53 < epicmetal> I was like.. damn Linus, you could have tweaked this
08:54 < LaTeX_GIMP> https://www.linuxinsider.com/story/73026.html 2011
08:54 < LaTeX_GIMP> "In short, blaming those and other "head up the arse" behaviors in GNOME 3, Torvalds has switched to Xfce, he said: "I think it's a step down from gnome2, but it's a huge step up from gnome3. Really." "
08:54 < LaTeX_GIMP> 2011.
08:54 < epicmetal> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOXeXauRAm0
08:54 < epicmetal> "Linus Torvalds Guided Tour of His Home Office"
08:55 < LaTeX_GIMP> i know he has since migrated to a standing desk and back
08:55 < epicmetal> 2016, note GNOME on his computer
08:55 < LaTeX_GIMP> but who cares, XFCE is still amazing and GNOME is still cancer
08:55 < epicmetal> And we know it's Fedora from other sources
08:55 < alexey-nemovff> blaztek: yep.. it's that lacky.. to be able to be light.. but one of my favorite DEs..
08:55 < hendrix> Mate lacks some customization options Xfce has. For example changing width of the panel. Xfce's whisker menu is nicer than Mate's one imo. Mate is good but I prefer Xfce.
08:55 < TheDcoder> Does anyone use JavaScript and Node for writing scripts instead of writing traditional ones? :P
08:55 < Ben64> no
08:56 < epicmetal> hendrix: MATE has a whisker menu, at least Ubuntu MATE 18.04 does
08:56 < epicmetal> Oh, *nicer than* -- sorry
08:56 < epicmetal> TheDcoder: get out
08:56 < hendrix> epicmetal: the brisk menu?
08:56 < epicmetal> hendrix: I think so, I only used it for a day before being horrified and switching distros
08:56 < [R]> TheDcoder: what's javascript?
08:56 < TheDcoder> epicmetal, okay sorry
08:57 < TheDcoder> It's...
08:57 < epicmetal> TheDcoder: just joking. But yeah, eww.
08:57 < LaTeX_GIMP> i don't understand people distro hopping due to the DE
08:57 < LaTeX_GIMP> christ
08:57 < TheDcoder> It's C but with a lot of unneeded bloat on top LOL
08:57 < LaTeX_GIMP> just change the DE
08:57 < epicmetal> LaTeX_GIMP: there's good reason
08:57 < alexey-nemovff> hendrix: that's right
08:57 < LaTeX_GIMP> unless the distro is inherently bodged
08:57 < alexey-nemovff> Whisker Menu y awesome
08:57 < epicmetal> LaTeX_GIMP: there you go ;)
08:57 < luke-jr> epicmetal: my office is even messier
08:58 < epicmetal> luke-jr: I don't even have one!
08:58 < luke-jr> epicmetal: fail!
08:58 < epicmetal> haha
08:58 < epicmetal> But come on, it's Linus Torvalds
08:58 < hendrix> epicmetal: it's ported from solus not so long ago. but yea, it seems big upgrade from default mate menu
08:58 < epicmetal> I would have thought his superior brain would have constructed an epic office
08:58 < luke-jr> not a whole lot to do with an office :x
08:59 < TheDcoder> What I find disturbing is that my Firefox is eating up almost a GB of RAM just for keeping 3 tabs open (Gmail and 2 other forums)
08:59 < luke-jr> my desk is in the middle
08:59 < epicmetal> To be fair I've always been disappointed that he didn't write some killer DE for Linux
08:59 < epicmetal> Like, in a weekend, ending GNOME/KDE in one fell swoop
08:59 < luke-jr> lol
08:59 < luke-jr> would need to replace Qt/GTK first
08:59 < blaztek> TheDcoder: try Chrome...that's even worse - memory, I mean
08:59 < epicmetal> Linus could do it. ;)
09:00 < epicmetal> He'd run LinTK
09:00 < epicmetal> write*
09:00 < hendrix> epicmetal: he's always been low-level designer/programmer, not very interested in gui frontends
09:00 < luke-jr> I'm tempted to switch to TDE
09:00 < epicmetal> hendrix: I know, sadly
09:00 < TheDcoder> blaztek, yep... makes my fans spin, I only use it because I need to for development of an addon for it
09:00 < LaTeX_GIMP> TheDcoder, it's probably due to the sites you are on or some other factor.  The latest firefox is awesome from my experience, i used to use chromium for speed but moved back to firefox now
09:00 < luke-jr> and by that I mean I'm already using TDE for email
09:01 < CrazyTux> does Linus Torvalds still use Fedora?
09:01 < epicmetal> luke-jr: oh yeah, I totally forgot to try it. Oh yeah, I remember why I didn't -- it isn't officially supported on my distro :(
09:01 < CrazyTux> why not Ubuntu?
09:01 < luke-jr> epicmetal: I added ebuilds to my overlay just enough to get me KMail
09:01 < LaTeX_GIMP> TheDcoder,  i suggest noscript and adblock, block all the scripts apart from the essential ones, sometimes it can stop a lot of bloat running, though adblock can increase RAM usage
09:01 < omkarnathsingh> Linux hates Ubuntu.
09:02 < epicmetal> CrazyTux: he explained this in a YouTube video. Says he's bad at sysadmin, and doesn't want to switch his family's computers. He runs the same distro for everyone for simplicity.
09:02 < blaztek> luke-jr: TDE? google turns up Top Dawg Entertainment...
09:02 < CrazyTux> ok
09:02 < epicmetal> CrazyTux: he uses Fedora for historic reasons, i.e. it worked for him back in the day and he stuck with it
09:02 < TheDcoder> I have been refraining from using Adblock
09:02 < luke-jr> blaztek: https://www.trinitydesktop.org/
09:02 < TheDcoder> and don't have time to configure NoScript
09:02 < TheDcoder> :P
09:02 < LaTeX_GIMP> TheDcoder, do you use noscript?
09:02 < luke-jr> blaztek: aka KDE 3
09:02 < TheDcoder> nope
09:02 < blaztek> luke-jr: Thank you!
09:02 < epicmetal> Ublock Origin > Adblock
09:02 < LaTeX_GIMP> you are probably a victim of bloated scripts running then
09:03 < TheDcoder> epicmetal: 👍
09:03 < TheDcoder> Yep, most likely
09:03 < TheDcoder> Shows how bloated sites have become these days
09:03 < luke-jr> blaztek: the height of KDE, before it began to suck
09:03 < luke-jr> sadly, it was just before Qt began to suck less
09:04 < epicmetal> KDE 3 was sweet
09:04 < LaTeX_GIMP> by adblock i meant any adblock, i also have a massive list pointing ad domains to localhost
09:04 < LaTeX_GIMP> for /etc/hosts file
09:04 < TheDcoder> it is getting worse with "Web Apps" which use chrome runtime to run as a normal app on the desktop
09:04 < epicmetal> I mean it had issues but damn did it have features
09:04 < luke-jr> indeed
09:04 < epicmetal> Better than KDE 4 and 5
09:04 < luke-jr> still is
09:04 < epicmetal> Remember the default keybindings selector?
09:04 < epicmetal> UNIX, MacOS, Windows, KDE
09:04 < luke-jr> no
09:04 < epicmetal> Now it's just KDE
09:04 < luke-jr> I just remember that KMail actually worked :P
09:05 < epicmetal> i.e. KDE 3 would let you choose which OS bindings to emulate in a first-run wizard
09:05 < epicmetal> That's polish
09:05 < luke-jr> KDE 4.4's KMail was almost back up to par, but it has random crashes if you try to do too much
09:05 < luke-jr> and KDE 5's KMail just doesn't work period
09:05 < TheDcoder> I use KDE Plasma because it has a more window-ish familiar and friendly interface
09:05 < luke-jr> I use Plasma because I can customise it how I like
09:05 < TheDcoder> that too
09:06 < LaTeX_GIMP> TheDcoder, you use KDE Plasma?
09:06 < luke-jr> I put the virtual desktop panel and clock at the top-almost-right of my screen, on top of windows
09:06 < TheDcoder> yes
09:06 < hendrix> Kmail 4.x and 5.x has always worked fine for me. although many say they have had problems
09:06 < LaTeX_GIMP> I thought you were concerned about resource usage
09:07 < TheDcoder> Not really
09:07 < TheDcoder> It isn't bad
09:07 < LaTeX_GIMP> KDE alone is a waste of resources, running firefox on top of it with scripts is just self harm
09:07 < LaTeX_GIMP> really it is.
09:07 < luke-jr> hendrix: IMAP?
09:07 < LaTeX_GIMP> it is bad.
09:07 < hendrix> the only thing I don't like it, is having lots of akonadi background services running. even though you disabled said services.
09:07 < [R]> https://i.redd.it/d1xupltbnqt01.jpg
09:07 < [R]> HAHAHA
09:07 < TheDcoder> Occupies a GB of RAM initially
09:07 < hendrix> luke-jr: yea
09:07 < LaTeX_GIMP> that's bad.
09:07 < luke-jr> hendrix: weird, I couldn't get Akonadi to work sanely ever
09:07 < LaTeX_GIMP> my WM takes probably 32MB or something
09:07 < luke-jr> maybe because my inbox has over 67000 unread messages
09:07 < LaTeX_GIMP> i have 32GB RAM but i still like efficiency
09:07 < TheDcoder> I have used LXDE in the past but for some reason I decided to try KDE
09:08 < TheDcoder> Maybe I will try Cinnamon next :)
09:08 < luke-jr> OS: GNU/Linux 4.16.2-gentoo-sc+hugetlb/ppc64le - CPU: 64x IBM POWER9 - Processes: 666 - Uptime: 3d 6h 25m - Users: 15 - Load Average: 62.62 - Memory Usage: 7841MB/65250MB (12%)
09:08  * luke-jr apparently doesn't need quite so much RAM without a browser
09:08 < hendrix> luke-jr: when jumping from 4.x to 5.x I had to scrap old configs though
09:08 < Boyeto> I liked Cinnamon more than KDE
09:08 < luke-jr> also, yay for 3 days uptime. I think that's a record for this PC :x
09:09 < Boyeto> but I run KDE now
09:09 < LaTeX_GIMP>  [R] that is hilarious
09:09 < TheDcoder> I should definitely try Cinnamon
09:09 < epicmetal> [R]: https://www.reddit.com/r/StallmanWasRight/
09:09 < Boyeto> jubalh: 3 days is a record? you running arch?
09:09 < Aph3x-WL> for what kde/plasma does, its resource usage really isn't bad, especially compared to something like gnome
09:09 < luke-jr> Boyeto: Gentoo, but the problem is hardware-related stuff
09:09 < Boyeto> +1 Aph3x-WL
09:09 < Boyeto> I saw a comparison os KDE vs XFCE
09:09 < luke-jr> Boyeto: anything older than Linux 4.16 won't work at all
09:10 < Boyeto> with several built-in apps running,
09:10 < Boyeto> the difference was like 200mb
09:10 < Boyeto> and the KDE apps are a lot more functional
09:10 < epicmetal> GNOME is heavy as hell but at least disk indexing works
09:10 < luke-jr> Aph3x-WL: comparing to GNOME isn't saying much..
09:10 < hendrix> in Cinnamon animations seems little chubby when in Kde their are silky smooth with same computer. lot of extensions didn't work which was little let down.
09:10 < LaTeX_GIMP> my WM is currently consuming 80MB of ram
09:10 < Boyeto> luke-jr: I can't run older than 4.15 properly with my Vega56
09:10 < epicmetal> GDM eats RAM like Cheetos
09:10 < talx> hey guys
09:11 < Boyeto> and was joking about the distro choice being the problem lol
09:11 < luke-jr> Boyeto: anyway, for some reason my GPU is only getting 32-bit DMA, and I quickly max out its address space and things go boom
09:11 < blaztek> hi talx!
09:11 < Aph3x-WL> luke-jr: usually it's around 500MB of ram for me
09:11 < talx> I'm going iostat and I want to get the line "avg-cpu*" and the line after it
09:11 < Aph3x-WL> LaTeX_GIMP: so you're not using systemd?
09:11 < talx> I can get the avg with | grep avg
09:11 < luke-jr> lol
09:11 < TheDcoder> I want some Cheetos
09:11 < talx> but how do I get the other line ? it always change statitstics
09:12 < TheDcoder> Atleast GDM works with Nvidia I guess
09:12 < hendrix> Kde preloads lots of stuff to ram. like those akonadi services. which isn't entirely bad thing since it makes loading them faster.
09:12 < TheDcoder> SDDM is choking with my Nvidia :(
09:12 < LaTeX_GIMP> Aph3x-WL, on this system i am forced to use it due to some dependencies, but on one of my debian systems i do not use it
09:12 < Aph3x-WL> then how are you only using 80MB of ram?
09:12 < luke-jr> TheDcoder: I'd never buy an nvidia
09:12 < LaTeX_GIMP> but i still kill whatever parts of systemd i can
09:12 < TheDcoder> I did not have an option, it's the one for Gaming
09:12 < luke-jr> LaTeX_GIMP: Gentoo makes it easy to run systemd-free FWIW
09:13 < TheDcoder> Best bang for buck
09:13 < luke-jr> although my bootloader and BMC run systemd still
09:13 < TheDcoder> especially in the laptop arena
09:13 < LaTeX_GIMP> Aph3x-WL, it's actually using less than 80MB, i run a bare bones system, and invoke icewm WM via xinit, no graphical logon manager
09:13 < Boyeto> My Vega56 does gaming pretty well on Linux
09:13 < Aph3x-WL> void is the best if you're going systemd-free imo
09:13 < TheDcoder> If I wasn't so big on games I would probably buy AMD
09:13 < luke-jr> anything works for free software gaming
09:14 < Boyeto> handles 3440x1440 in any steam games I play
09:14 < TheDcoder> I am talking about serious GTA gaming :P
09:14 < TheDcoder> Vega56?
09:14 < Boyeto> and 30fps @ 3440x1440 in Cemu running BOTW via wine
09:14 < TheDcoder> BOTW?
09:14 < luke-jr> Jedi Academy is fun
09:15  * luke-jr should probably make sure it works on his new PC sometime
09:15 < CrazyTux> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca-C3voZwpM
09:15 < LaTeX_GIMP> LaTeX_GIMP, i would spend too much time setting up gentoo and maintaining it from day to day, i run a lot of things on here, multiple KVM virtual machines with PCI passthrough for mining AMD and NVIDIA GPUs securely and isolated, etc
09:15 < LaTeX_GIMP> luke-jr ***
09:15 < luke-jr> maybe you should use Qubes then
09:15 < LaTeX_GIMP> no
09:15 < luke-jr> it does a lot of VM stuff
09:16 < TheDcoder> qubes doesn't really support passthrough
09:16 < LaTeX_GIMP> i have a system i have tailored to my needs from the ground up, and it works well for me
09:16 < Boyeto> TheDcoder: The Legend Of Zelda: Breath Of The Wild (BOTW)
09:16 < LaTeX_GIMP> that is what counts
09:16 < blaztek> talx: iostat | awk 'NR == 3 || NR == 4 {print $0}'
09:16 < luke-jr> I thought that was one of its primary features
09:16 < TheDcoder> Ehh...
09:16 < TheDcoder> Cemu is a Switch emulator?
09:16 < Boyeto> WiiU
09:16 < LaTeX_GIMP> systemd is the only part i have not been able to gut
09:17 < Boyeto> BOTW is on WiiU as well :)
09:17 < TheDcoder> Oh, it's available for Wii U
09:17 < Boyeto> yeah
09:17 < TheDcoder> I should try emulation some time, been a while :)
09:18 < Boyeto> It'd been a while for me too, it's going pretty well now
09:18 < TheDcoder> Great fun
09:19 < Boyeto> dolphin supports vulkan now
09:19 < LaTeX_GIMP> even with debian, i have gutted systemd from init, and removed most of the systemd packages, but it will still depend on libsystemd for dbus or something
09:19 < Boyeto> I must be the only one here who actually likes systemd
09:19 < TheDcoder> That's great news
09:19 < [R]> THE HORROR!
09:19 < blaztek> talx: iostat | tail -n+3 | head -n2
09:19 < TheDcoder> What's wrong with systemd?
09:19 < [R]> Boyeto: systemd is great
09:19 < [R]> TheDcoder: nothing
09:19 < LaTeX_GIMP> and when using pinning to force no systemd pulling, it will just break the package system, unable to install or upgrade certain things
09:19 < [R]> TheDcoder: poeple just like to complain to feel special
09:19 < TheDcoder> lol
09:20 < Ben64> bingo
09:20 < talx> blaztek: ty will try
09:20 < talx> nice works perfectly
09:20 < LaTeX_GIMP> [R], systemd is a genuine concern
09:20 < [R]> LaTeX_GIMP: concern?
09:20 < blaztek> so how do you get rid of systemd?
09:21 < LaTeX_GIMP> https://suckless.org/sucks/systemd/
09:21 < [R]> lol
09:21 < LaTeX_GIMP> it's not a mere whimsical complaint
09:21 < [R]> lol
09:21 < Ben64> it's a mere whimsical complaint
09:21 < LaTeX_GIMP> it is tentacle rape hentai of my init system and multiple packages that pull it as a dependency even though they don't need to, and the systemd devs forcing their ways on those packages to fit around systemd
09:22 < LaTeX_GIMP> goddamn tentacle rape
09:22 < Ben64> tldr; don't like change
09:22 < [R]> lolx2
09:23 < LaTeX_GIMP> i have been using linux for a long time, this is not some fanboy mantra
09:23 < [R]> haha
09:23 < LaTeX_GIMP> i have experienced the creeping
09:23 < LaTeX_GIMP> and felt the tentacles attach
09:24 < Ben64> oh no it's different
09:24 < Ben64> what shall become of us
09:24 < [R]> LaTeX_GIMP: and the problem...
09:24 < LaTeX_GIMP> there are many different init systems, the point is freedom of choice and those init systems are actually init daemons, and not tentacle rape monsters
09:25 < Ben64> you keep using that term which makes no damn sense
09:25 < [R]> when sysvinit was the only one
09:25 < [R]> i dindt see poeple complain 10 times a day
09:25 < LaTeX_GIMP> it's not about difference, it's about being able to choose and not have one single init daemon become more than it should and impose on other packages when it does not need to
09:25 < LaTeX_GIMP> [R],  because sysvinit is actually a proper init daemon, and just an init daemon
09:25 < Ben64> who are you to decide what it needs to do or not do?
09:25 < [R]> lol
09:26 < LaTeX_GIMP> it doesn't take over every aspect of the system
09:26 < Aph3x-WL> runit is better
09:26 < [R]> you just said aits about being able to choose
09:26 < Aph3x-WL> no wait i meant systemd
09:26 < [R]> there didnt used to be a cohice
09:26 < LaTeX_GIMP> runit is a nice option
09:26 < [R]> and everyone was fine
09:26 < Boyeto> I don't mind a little Japanese culture
09:26 < fr0b> Ill give a legit complaint, it seems like when you want to write init scripts yourself and dont want to use start-stop-daemon, using service <whatever> and /etc/init.d/whatever act differently. Debugging why this is the case is a PIA.
09:27 < LaTeX_GIMP> [R], there was always a choice of different init systems
09:27 < [R]> always?
09:27 < [R]> lol
09:27 < LaTeX_GIMP> well yes, if you didn't like one, you could modify an existing one or write your own from scratch
09:28 < LaTeX_GIMP> always.
09:28 < [R]> lol
09:28 < [R]> no one is stopping you from doing that now
09:28 < TheDcoder> tentacle monster
09:28 < TheDcoder> :P
09:28 < LaTeX_GIMP> you can see my point and other people's stress, including developers working on completely unrelated packages -- systemd creeps into them and wants them to adapt to systemd, and then they have to pull in systemd-whateverd as a dependency
09:28 < LaTeX_GIMP> or libsystemd
09:29 < LaTeX_GIMP> https://suckless.org/sucks/systemd/ says it best
09:29 < [R]> lol
09:29 < TheDcoder> hmm...
09:29 < [R]> oh no! a dependency!
09:30 < Ben64> run away!
09:30 < [R]> run for the hills
09:30 < [R]> for for your life
09:30  * JimBuntu is running away.
09:30 < Aph3x-WL> all distros should switch to s6 and be done with it, it's the future anyway
09:30 < LaTeX_GIMP> without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd#Absurd_bugs_and_responses more entertainment
09:31 < Ben64> all written by people pushing an agenda
09:31 < [R]> http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/ProSystemdAntiSystemd/
09:31 < akay> Ben64: I knew it from the beginning.
09:31 < TheDcoder> It looks like to me it is doing more than it should be
09:31 < [R]> Ben64: big init
09:32 < akay> It just seemed way too nice and easy.
09:32 < [R]> TheDcoder: like?
09:32 < LaTeX_GIMP> TheDcoder, no shit
09:32 < TheDcoder> Not sure
09:32 < [R]> TheDcoder: rofl
09:32 < TheDcoder> but it does have a huge list of responsibilities
09:32 < [R]> oh no!
09:32 < TheDcoder> :P
09:32 < [R]> TheDcoder: so let me get this straight
09:32 < TheDcoder> don't mind me, me just a noob
09:32 < LaTeX_GIMP> systemd-journald, systemd-timesyncd, systemd-resolved, killemall
09:33 < [R]> TheDcoder: 1 package that does a lot of things, thats bad?
09:33 < [R]> LaTeX_GIMP: do you concur?
09:33 < LaTeX_GIMP> TheDcoder, init daemon should do init.
09:33 < LaTeX_GIMP> and do it well.
09:33 < AciD`> hey guys. I'm confused because I have a LAN that is ALL wired with the following configuration: server <-> router <- PLC -> router <-> computer, but while I only get ~6MB/s transfer rate usually between the server and the computer (while both router allows for 1Gb/s (those are linksys wrt routers), for 2 days now I get a very, very low bandwidth between those two (see http://paste.debian.net/10217
09:33 < AciD`> http://paste.debian.net/1021739/
09:33 < [R]> systemd-journald isn't the init daemon
09:33 < [R]> neither is systemd-timesyncd
09:33 < FXpro> whonix is only an addon type thing or it also has its own separate os?
09:33 < AciD`> any ideas why?
09:33 < TheDcoder> as a developer I tend to prefer my programs doing one task best than doing a bunch averagely
09:34 < LaTeX_GIMP> [R], you are being silly now
09:34 < LaTeX_GIMP> they are all tentacles of systemd
09:34 < [R]> lol
09:34 < TheDcoder> LOL
09:34  * sauvin continues to swear at erlang
09:34 < [R]> TheDcoder: so you're saying 1 package doing multiple things is bad?
09:34 < LaTeX_GIMP> i mean, i don't even use ntpd as it is bugged
09:34 < LaTeX_GIMP> why do i want timesyncd?
09:34 < TheDcoder> depends
09:34 < LaTeX_GIMP> how long until it is mandatory
09:35 < LissajousPattern> cool day today
09:35 < TheDcoder> I like to be modular
09:35 < LaTeX_GIMP> if i want to sync the time, i invoke ntpd -gq
09:35 < [R]> TheDcoder: then you'll love sysytemd
09:35 < LaTeX_GIMP> and let it end
09:35 < [R]> TheDcoder: lots of little pieces
09:35 < TheDcoder> but you just said one big package? :P
09:35 < [R]> TheDcoder: no, i said 1 package doing multiple things
09:36 < TheDcoder> yeah, that
09:36 < TheDcoder> I want multiple packages doing multiple things
09:36 < TheDcoder> :P
09:36 < [R]> TheDcoder: so you're against 1 package doing multiple things?
09:36 < TheDcoder> it depends as I have said
09:36 < [R]> depends on what
09:36 < TheDcoder> depends on the scope of the program
09:36 < [R]> huh?
09:37 < TheDcoder> program/package/whatever
09:37 < AciD`> iperf reports a 729kbits/sec from the server to the computer
09:37 < [R]> AciD`: and whne you directly connectc them?
09:37 < AciD`> without the PLC you mean?
09:37 < [R]> i mean without anythign
09:37 < AciD`> I do not have a long enough cable to try currently
09:38 < [R]> well, let us know when you do
09:38 < Aph3x-WL> TheDcoder: you would love netbsd
09:38 < LaTeX_GIMP> and triceratux has highlighted a lot of clusterfuck from systemd-resolved
09:38 < TheDcoder> I have been wanted to poke around with BSD
09:38 < LaTeX_GIMP> just another example of its tentacles
09:38 < AciD`> what's odd is that one hour ago, I had the usual bandwidth and could transfer lots of data. But since then it dropped to this abysmal rate
09:38 < TheDcoder> it's funny how systemd related programs are it's tentacles :)
09:39 < sauvin> LaTeX_GIMP, mind the language.
09:39 < [R]> AciD`: sounds like a hardware problem
09:39 < LaTeX_GIMP> clusterfick
09:39 < LaTeX_GIMP> better?
09:39 < sauvin> Fustercluck. Clusterfrack. Whatever.
09:39 < TheDcoder> fork
09:39 < Aph3x-WL> flustercack
09:39 < LaTeX_GIMP> Macroshaft-systemd
09:39 < sauvin> EEWW
09:39 < AciD`> [R] ⟹ I do not see anything about hardware problems in the dmesg
09:40 < [R]> AciD`: rofl
09:40 < TheDcoder> Atleast better than using Windows I guess
09:41 < LaTeX_GIMP> i have also noticed some things break when i kill systemd-journald, but only a few packages
09:41 < TheDcoder> Truly horrible with Windows 10, forces you to restart without prompting when you are away
09:41 < blaztek> LaTeX_GIMP: how did you get rid of systemd? Debian 9 wants to remove everything...even with sysvinit-core installed
09:42 < LaTeX_GIMP> blaztek, you have to install sysvinit core, reboot, then purge systemd, but you will still have libsystemd0 or something else as a dependncy for dbus or other things
09:42 < [R]> the horror!
09:42 < [R]> how can you live with yourself!?
09:43 < Pentode> god
09:43  * Pentode bangs his head on the table to get the bad thoughts out of his head
09:43 < [R]> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Olo8gzgpC4
09:43  * Aph3x-WL pushes bad thoughts back into Pentode
09:45 < LaTeX_GIMP> http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_remove_systemd_from_a_Debian_jessie/sid_installation blaztek the pinning mentioned in this guide may prevent you from installing some packages
09:46 < LaTeX_GIMP> you could also use devuan or some other distro designed purely to rid systemd
09:47 < ShalokShalom> sauvin: erlang or the beam?
09:47 < blaztek> LaTeX_GIMP: thank you!
09:48 < LaTeX_GIMP> blaztek, good luck on your journey
09:49 < sauvin> Erlang uses a VM called Beam, I thought.
09:49 < sauvin> Or BEAM, or something.
09:50 < TheDcoder> When is the year of Linux?
09:50 < TheDcoder> :P
09:51 < sauvin> You're living it, buddy. Enjoy it.
09:51 < revel> Every year.
09:51 < noname___> how do i echo a pipe?
09:51 < TheDcoder> :)
09:51 < revel> cat
09:51 < noname___> echo "\|" isnt it
09:51 < TheDcoder> pee
09:52 < [R]> noname___: echo '|'
09:52 < revel> Just \|
09:52 < revel> Or "|", or '|'
09:52 < noname___> sorry it works
09:52 < noname___> https://codeshare.io/2KBv1K
09:52 < noname___> but this doesnt...
09:53 < revel> Drop the "-e"s maybe.
09:54 < blaztek> LaTeX_GIMP: thank you!
09:54 < [R]> drop it like its hot
09:57 < revel> noname___: Oh, it's because of the ` characters.
09:58 < revel> noname___: https://0x0.st/sQMt.bin
10:01 < mrtnt> How to understand "space = max_t(u32, sysctl_tcp_rmem[2], sysctl_rmem_max);" in Linux kernel? Does is mean that variable named space will get the value of /proc/sys/net/core/rmem_max OR third value of /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_rmem whichever is larger?
10:02 < [R]> it means it will get the max between sysctl_tcp_rmem[2] and sysctl_rmem_max
10:03 < sauvin> Can't tell you where those figures come from, though.
10:04 < [R]> the same function the line is in...
10:14 < mrtnt> [R], sauvin: thanks! However, "sysctl_tcp_rmem[2]" is the third value of /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_rmem file? And "sysctl_rmem_max" is /proc/sys/net/core/rmem_max?
10:14 < [R]> well, the code shows you what those variables are...
10:22 < LaTeX_GIMP> systemd-path
10:35 < mazula_> hi I try to send a file to a parameter with ab. doesn't work my syntax is wrong. an idea of how I can do that ? ab -n 5 -c 1 scammers=compute -p /Users/grandiereantoine/documents/conf2.jpg -T "multipart/form-data;" [mywebsite]
10:38 < peetaur2> mazula_: what is the scammers=compute in there?
10:38 < mazula_> a post parameter
10:38 < mazula_> it's the parameters where I send the file
10:38 < TheDcoder> Hmm...
10:39 < sauvin> What, in fact, is 'ab'?
10:39 < mazula_> https://gist.github.com/kindles/b16a634b9c6a1290ef0b06636027a316
10:39 < mazula_> it's the html that I query with ab
10:40 < sauvin> Good grief... you might want to ask that kind of question in an httpd- or Apache-centric channel.
10:40 < sauvin> What do you mean "send a file to a parameter"?
10:42 < TheDcoder> man ab
10:47 < peetaur2> masber: so I think you just have to remove the scammers=compute and put that in your postfile... but I don't know how to make a postfile with jpg + text multipart
10:50 < sandman13> Is there a specific assumption when replaying traffic using tcpreplay?
10:51 < anzipex> How to disable alt in ubuntu when i renaming files?
10:51 < anzipex> When i press shift + alt to switch another language it drops renaming
10:52 < anzipex> I've got 2 input sources (EN an RU)
10:53 < anzipex> Also when i paste in terminal by Ctrl + Shift + V in EN language it works normally
10:54 < anzipex> But when i do the same with RU it doesn't work and my copied text won't paste
11:03 < anzipex> In configuring keyboard-configuration what keyboard is most compatible to my logitech k120?
11:04 < anzipex> # dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration
11:05 < Lope> I want to make a debian stretch container on my ubuntu 16.04 machine.
11:05 < Lope> I find LXC's terminal interface to be really shit. I basically have to SSH into it to have a decent experience.
11:06 < Lope> Is the new systemd-spawn stuff good?
11:14 < djph> doubt it
11:19 < mawk> Lope: it works better than LXC's console in my experience
11:19 < mawk> way better
11:19 < mawk> sometimes I don't even have the "login: " prompt with lxc-console
11:19 < mawk> I have to ssh in as you say
11:20 < mawk> debootstrap testing my_container http://deb.debian.org/debian/; systemd-nspawn -b -D my_container
11:20 < mawk> replace testing by stretch sorry
11:25 < lnslbrty> Hi tuxedos! Would you guys recommend using an SSD (or more clearly one partition) as a swap especially when your machine is often out of RAM? What about SSD wear?
11:26 < Disconsented> SSD's have been able to be PB's of writes for a while now
11:26 < lnslbrty> PB?
11:26 < Disconsented> Petabyte
11:26 < lnslbrty> k, thx
11:26 < Disconsented> Although at that point you should probably get more RAM
11:27 < lnslbrty> It's a linksys router, so it might be that easy to get more RAM. ;)
11:27 < TaZeR> my ssd life seems to go down by % every week, doesnt feel like petabytes to me
11:27 < lnslbrty> *not
11:27 < Disconsented> TaZeR> What drive?
11:27 < BCMM> TaZeR: oh... how do you measure that?
11:27 < TaZeR> granted its more on the low end, it is fairly recent, sandisk ssd plus 120gb
11:27 < Disconsented> yeah thats why :P
11:28 < TaZeR> it reports it in the smart settings
11:28 < lnslbrty> What manufacturer would you recommend?
11:28 < Disconsented> ssd plus is _old_ as far as SSD's goe
11:28 < Disconsented> MX500 is hard to beat lnslbrty
11:28 < lnslbrty> Disconsented: ty
11:29 < TaZeR> i wish i shelled out the extra $30 for a samsung 850 evo i have that in another pc and its better
11:33 < Triffid_Hunter> TaZeR: "Percentage Used:                    9%" <-- this SMART figure?
11:34 < Lope> lnslbrty: just don't buy a shitty SSD. Get Crucial, Samsung or Intel.
11:34 < Triffid_Hunter> mine's only about a month old... Power On Hours: 857. mine's a samsung PM961 NVMe
11:35 < TaZeR> Triffid_Hunter: yea i think so
11:35 < tomty89> Aren't Intel SSD quite crappy these day
11:35 < tomty89> Maybe the PCIe ones are better
11:36 < TaZeR> and i have 6,500gb writes and 9,100 reads
11:36 < TaZeR> thats not a lot
11:36 < TaZeR> and it says its like 54% worn out
11:36 < Triffid_Hunter> TaZeR: heh Data Units Read: 84,961,456 [43.5 TB], Data Units Written: 102,067,663 [52.2 TB]
11:36 < TaZeR> my samsung has 29,000 and it reports 15% used
11:37 < Lope> mawk: can I use systemd-nspawn to chroot something?
11:37 < Lope> I need to nuke the root password on a container i just debootstrapped
11:37 < mawk> you mean not boot completely ? yes
11:37 < mawk> just drop -b and add -a /bin/bash at the end
11:38 < Lope> mawk: nice! thanks bud
11:40 < LaTeX_GIMP> "As none of the developers has been using rotating media anymore, and nobody stepped up to actively maintain this component of systemd it has now been removed." ... what the glockenspiel did i just read
11:40 < jhodrien> Where's that?
11:41 < LaTeX_GIMP> jhodrien, https://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/tree/NEWS?id=2d1ca11270e66777c90a449096203afebc37ec9c#n950
11:41 < Triffid_Hunter> what's rotating media? those CD things from the 80s?
11:41 < LaTeX_GIMP> Hard Drives Triffid_Hunter
11:41 < LaTeX_GIMP> as in 8TB spinning platters
11:41 < LaTeX_GIMP> not SSD
11:41 < MrElendig> LaTeX_GIMP: selective quoting makes it looks worse than it is,....
11:41 < Triffid_Hunter> ah ok, I think I have one of those somewhere
11:42 < LaTeX_GIMP> MrElendig, it's the main part
11:42 < MrElendig> " systemd's readahead implementation has been removed. In many circumstances it didn't give expected benefits even for rotational disk drives and was becoming less relevant in the age of SSDs. "
11:42 < LaTeX_GIMP> the idea that a whole feature would be removed, because the devs do not use HDDs apparently
11:42 < MrElendig> LaTeX_GIMP: no, not only because of that
11:43 < jhodrien> I'm surprised *none* of the developers are using hard disks.  It not really working is a much better reason to drop it.
11:43 < easy_ref123> in dhcpd.conf, what path is the value of the "filename" directive relative to?
11:43 < LaTeX_GIMP> It's just funny to read
11:43 < jhodrien>  But let's be honest, this is the story of open source software.  If it doesn't scratch someone's itch, they're not going to work on it.
11:43 < mawk> /etc/dhcpd probably easy_ref123
11:44 < MrElendig> most people have stopped using readahead/prefetch these datys
11:44 < MrElendig> days*
11:44 < Lope> mawk: I want to configure a virtual ethernet interface for my systemd container.
11:44 < MrElendig> go back a decade and it wall all the rage to use various readahead services, even though if you actually did benchmarks, they usually ended up slowing down boot
11:44 < Triffid_Hunter> isn't the whole point of mmap() that readahead/prefetch decisions are left up to the kernel?
11:44 < MrElendig> though it might feel a tiny bit more repsonsive
11:44 < Lope> mawk: I want to throttle it's internet speed.
11:45  * tomty89 recalls WinXP prefetch
11:45 < mawk> right Lope, well you can start by using a full blown .nspawn file for your container
11:45 < mawk> that way systemd will create the required slices
11:45 < mawk> then you can maybe use tc on the relevant slice to throttle network speed
11:45 < mawk> or iptables, or whatever you want
11:46 < Lope> mawk: I just added -n and now it's got a veth. But I tried giving it an IP from the host, but it didn't like the network adapter name.
11:46 < mawk> for the test setup you can start by just using systemd-nspawn on the CLI, and specifying a specific slice
11:46 < mawk> -n isn't plug and play exactly
11:46 < Lope> `ip a add 192.168.4.5 dev ve-fs@if2` "Cannot find device "ve-fs@if2""
11:46 < mawk> well it kinda is if everything is enabled in the host and in the container
11:46 < mawk> no, drop the @if2
11:46 < mawk> it's just ve-fs
11:46 < Lope> oh, okay.
11:47 < LaTeX_GIMP> for the gnome and ubuntu fingerprinting spyware i guess this could be handy, ala windows 10: "/etc/os-release gained support for a Distribution Privacy link field."  https://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/tree/NEWS?id=2d1ca11270e66777c90a449096203afebc37ec9c#n594
11:47 < Lope> yeah, I've done the tc/iptables thing before.
11:47 < BrokerOne> Hello guys
11:47 < Lope> mawk: so is it better to use a nspawn file for this?
11:47 < mawk> dunno
11:47 < LaTeX_GIMP> *Privacy Policy link field
11:47 < mawk> it depends if you want the automatic sugary of systemd
11:47 < Lope> mawk: what does @if2 mean?
11:47 < BrokerOne> any experience integrating Active Directory with samba? It works fine?
11:47 < mawk> or if you like to do things by hand
11:47 < mawk> it's a reference to the other end of the veth
11:47 < mawk> which has no name in that namespace
11:47 < mawk> so it's a meaningless internal name you see
11:48 < Triffid_Hunter> BrokerOne: last time I tried it seemed to work ok..
11:48 < BrokerOne> Triffid_Hunter: Ty, tt is stable to deploy in production environments?
11:49 < mawk> I'm sure systemd already has an option for network speed and you won't have to mess with cgroups and tc Lope
11:49 < mawk> check it up
11:50 < Triffid_Hunter> BrokerOne: maybe? I haven't used windows in about a decade, so "last time I tried" was quite some time ago :P
11:50 < BrokerOne> LOL
11:51 < BrokerOne> Win stuff changed a lot in one decade LOL
11:51 < djph> BrokerOne: "works" probably.  "fine", not likely
11:52 < Triffid_Hunter> I heard Microsoft were submitting patches to help it work better a year or two ago
11:52 < LaTeX_GIMP> for traffic management/throttling network speed you can use tc & wondershaper https://linux.die.net/man/8/tc
11:52 < BrokerOne> I supose that if Active directory doesn't have so much policies... it should be ok
11:54 < BCMM> wondershaper is obsolete, use SQM
11:54 < trae32566[w]> ^^ it got abandoned iirc
11:54 < mawk> why is there a need for another program ? there's already tc
11:55 < LaTeX_GIMP> tc is lower level
11:55 < LaTeX_GIMP> BCMM, thanks for making me aware of that
11:55 < BCMM> mawk: wondershaper is just a shell script that calls tc a bunch of times
11:56 < LaTeX_GIMP> like why use ufw when we have iptables
11:56 < mawk> exactly LaTeX_GIMP
11:57 < pepermuntjes> because ufw is easy?
11:57 < LaTeX_GIMP> convenience
11:57 < mawk> iptables is universal, it's worth learning
11:58 < trae32566[w]> ^
11:58 < LaTeX_GIMP> yes, but if i just want to quickly open or close a port for example mawk, ufw allow/deny is convenient
11:58 < trae32566[w]> when shit breaks, knowing iptables is very important.
11:58 < LaTeX_GIMP> for lower level stuff i would use iptables
11:58 < trae32566[w]> *very* important.
11:59 < trae32566[w]> many network devices use it underneath, and sometimes things get screwy. For example I've found issues with EdgeOS with certain firewall rules not creating their respective iptables rules.
11:59 < mawk> iptables -I INPUT -p tcp --dport 12345 -j ACCEPT
11:59 < LaTeX_GIMP> ufw allow 1337
11:59 < pepermuntjes> firewalld is easy with zones and stuff
11:59 < trae32566[w]> ^
12:00 < trae32566[w]> but I would still say learn iptables too.
12:00 < quint> If I want to encrypt a LVM spanned across 4 disks using LUKS, should I encrypt each disk? Or luksFormat on top of the logical volume?
12:01 < mawk> my network setups are sometimes unusual, I don't trust wrappers with understanding where to put stuff
12:01 < LaTeX_GIMP> i didn't say not to learn iptables, i said ufw had its convenience benefits, like wondershaper has/had its convenience as a frontend for tc
12:03 < lnslbrty> But can you change the maximum bandwidth dynamically with tc/iptables? Example: If there is no outgoing traffic to tcp22, all outgoing traffic to port80 can use the full bandwidth. But if there is tcp22 traffic, tcp80 gets delayed. Is that possible with tc?
12:03 < tomty89> quint: i think luks on lvm is easier to set up, but it will be less flexible
12:04 < mawk> probably in some way or another lnslbrty
12:04 < quint> tomty89: why would it be less flexible specifically?
12:04 < lnslbrty> I have actually no experience with tc. ONe of my ToDo's.
12:04 < tomty89> quint: as in volume resizing or so
12:04 < quint> ahh.
12:05 < lnslbrty> mawk: How would you do it?
12:05 < LaTeX_GIMP> it's certainly low level enough to possibly do that, but i have not messed around with traffic shaping and rate limiting too much to know how
12:05 < mawk> I don't know tc either
12:05 < mawk> but I know it's powerful
12:05 < mawk> let me search
12:05 < quint> tomty89: wouldn't luks on lvm perform faster as well?
12:05 < lnslbrty> true
12:06 < quint> as opposed to the other way around that is
12:06 < Lope> mawk: I've specified a name for the nspawn'd container with --machine. I added an IP to it from the host. Set the link up. But it says LOWERLAYERDOWN. So I tried setting the link up inside the container but it ignores my attempt to do so. no error.
12:06 < tomty89> quint: i don't think there's a difference in terms of speed
12:07 < mawk> the ip won't get autoconfigured if you don't enable systemd-networkd both in host and in container Lope
12:07 < mawk> so you need to do it manually
12:07 < mawk> on the host you have a brand new interface: enable it, assign an address, enable forwarding, add a little masquerading rule
12:08 < mawk> ip link set $IFACE up state up; ip addr add 172.16.0.1/24 dev $IFACE; sysctl -w net.ipv4.conf.all.forwarding=1; iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -s 172.16.0.0/24 ! -d 172.16.0.0/24 -j MASQUERADE
12:08 < mawk> LOWLAYERDOWN is when it's not enabled at both sides
12:08 < mawk> you can still add addresses if it's in that state
12:11 < Lope> `ip link set up dev foo` gives same effect as `ip link set foo up state up` results in LOWERLAYERDOWN
12:11 < mawk> on both sides
12:12 < mawk> then LOWLAYERDOWN will go away
12:12 < Lope> Hmm, I thought I did, will try again.
12:13 < Lope> mawk: it worked. up state up seems strange but worked.
12:13 < mawk> the "state up" part is just æsthetic
12:13 < mawk> otherwise you have "state UKNOWN" even though it's up in the info
12:13 < mawk> plus it's green when you do ip -c a
12:16 < Lope> ooooh, pretty colours. I've never seen ip -c a
12:16 < Lope> I've been missing out all this time!
12:16 < Lope> I've always done `ip addr show`
12:17 < mawk> lol
12:18 < Lope> but ip -c a doesn't work for showing a specific interface
12:18 < Lope> like `ip addr show br0`
12:18 < mawk> ip -c addr show br0
12:18 < mawk> it's just a flag for ip, you can use it anywhere
12:18 < Lope> okay, then what's the a?
12:18 < mawk> shorthand for address
12:19 < mawk> ip -c a is the same as ip -c addr show
12:19 < Lope> sweet :)
12:19 < Lope> damn, linux guys like their commands short :)
12:19 < mawk> lol
12:19 < djph> protection from RSI
12:19 < Lope> (as do I, I make aliases) but it's another story dealing with other people's shorthand.
12:20 < thadtheman> Is there a way to find the name of my fgraphics cards?
12:20 < Lope> lspci
12:20 < Lope> lsgpu maybe?
12:21 < Lope> you can also read the label on the graphics card, that's usually quite reliable.
12:23 < thadtheman> Lope: I couldn't find the label.
12:23 < Lope> I've got a libreoffice spreadsheet that's pure death to edit. They had a regression with a recent version update. It's so painful dealing with a massive spreadsheet now.
12:25 < rypervenche> mawk: Holy cow! It has color?!? This just changed my life...
12:25 < rypervenche> aliasing ip to ip -c now.
12:25 < Lope> mawk, man of the hour. changing lives.
12:25 < Lope> rypervenche: ohm I didn't think of using it for more than show.
12:25 < Lope> I just aliased ias to ip -c addr show
12:28 < Lope> Libreoffice is death.
12:28 < ananke> colorized ip must be a debian/ubuntu thing
12:28 < Lope> Sitting here, wasting my life waiting for a 4.3ghz processor to run libreoffice's shitty insert row algorithm from hell.
12:28 < ananke> hmm, or maybe it's available only in newer iproute versions. centos 7 doesn't seem to have it
12:29 < notmike> Ananke sounds like a reptilian name
12:29 < rypervenche> It's on Gentoo, so likely just a new thing.
12:30 < rypervenche> https://lwn.net/Articles/649590/
12:30 < ananke> rypervenche: seems it may appear in iproute2 version 4
12:31 < ananke> yep. centos/rhel7 are still on v3
12:31 < mawk> lol rypervenche
12:31 < ananke> boo. I want color
12:31 < rypervenche> So much for using this at work then :/
12:33 < ananke> rypervenche: yeah, this gave me false hopes. it would have made reading ip less of a chore
12:33 < mawk> you can update it discretly
12:34 < rypervenche> ananke: Aye, that it would. I had another RHEL sad moment yesterday when I realized that its version of nftables doesn't support sets of sets :/ Always having to make workarounds.
12:34 < stevendale> o/
12:34 < stevendale> B..but
12:35 < ananke> mawk: too little of a payoff for too much work and possible problems. our systems stick to main repos and epel
12:35 < mawk> I see
12:35 < stevendale> I tried to do GPU passthrough on my Intel Core 2 Duo P8700 @ 2.53 GHz with its Intel GMA 4500 MHD, with Lubuntu 17.10 fully updated as the host, Windows XP Professional SP3 as the guest
12:35 < stevendale> Performance was horrible...
12:36 < stevendale> The games I wanted to run didn't run in the VM, but ran when booting XP directly....
12:37 < stevendale> Is VirtualBox the problem?
12:37 < stevendale> Would performance be better in VMware?
12:37 < djph> not likely.
12:38 < djph> the problem though, is your strange infatuation with ancient things.
12:38 < stevendale> Or my lack of ability to upgrade
12:38 < rypervenche> tomato tomato
12:38  * stevendale coughs "Lack of patience to save up enough money to upgrade"
12:39 < tomty89> poverty
12:39 < stevendale> tomty89, I'm unemployed... I guess you could say that
12:39 < ananke> stevendale: that P8700 doesn't have vt-d capabilities, which explain poor performance
12:40 < rypervenche> Yet we find ways to get hardware and Internet services. Where there's a will, there's a way :)
12:40 < stevendale> Parents pay for my internet
12:40 < stevendale> I pay for my computers
12:40 < tomty89> does virtualbox make use of vt-d tho
12:40 < mnemon> stevendale: are you using actual gpu passthrough or "3d acceleration" for the guest ? with the latter you get virtual gpu so it would behave differently
12:41 < mnemon> latter based on no vt-d
12:41 < stevendale> mnemon, I installed the Direct3D drivers in safe mode, which is passthrough
12:41 < stevendale> It says so in the online docs
12:42 < tomty89> are you trying to play some game in the guest or what
12:43 < iodev> stevendale: oh, you're trying to do GPU passthrough
12:43 < stevendale> tomty89, Yeah
12:43 < stevendale> Yeah iodev :D
12:43 < stevendale> I know my current lappy can do it
12:43 < stevendale> Client: HexChat 2.12.4 • OS: Ubuntu "artful" 17.10 • CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3340M CPU @ 2.70GHz (1.29GHz) • Memory: Physical: 3.7 GiB Total (2.8 GiB Free) Swap: 2.0 GiB Total (2.0 GiB Free) • Storage: 22.8 GB / 313.3 GB (290.5 GB Free) • VGA: Intel Corporation 3rd Gen Core processor Graphics Controller @ Intel Corporation 3rd Gen Core processor DRAM Controller • Uptime: 7h 51m 3s
12:44 < iodev> stevendale: you need an intel GPU and an Nvidia/AMD gpu
12:44 < iodev> better NVIDIA with proprietary
12:44 < jhodrien> If you're doing passthrough, you need a spare GPU.
12:44 < stevendale> o/
12:44 < jhodrien> I do passthrough with KVM and VFIO.
12:45 < jhodrien> That's proper passthrough, where the guest gets the card and the host doesn't.
12:45 < LaTeX_GIMP> i done PCI passthrough perfectly fine with AMD CPU and NVIDIA/AMD GPU, but now use Intel CPU
12:45 < LaTeX_GIMP> Intel CPU is not a requirement
12:45 < jhodrien> Only ever tried with nvidia, as I was looking to do CUDA within a VM.
12:45 < LaTeX_GIMP> i have 8 GPUs passed through all running in KVM
12:45 < LaTeX_GIMP> mix of AMD and NVIDIA
12:46 < iodev> LaTeX_GIMP: I said GPU
12:46 < iodev> in short, he needs a laptop with both integrated & dedicated
12:46 < LaTeX_GIMP> You don't need an Intel GPU either
12:46 < LaTeX_GIMP> but it helps
12:46 < iodev> and most often it's an intel one
12:46 < stevendale> Can I get a GPU that plugs in on USB3
12:46  * iodev says no
12:47 < iodev> stevendale: I've tried this myself ... it doesn't work
12:47 < iodev> it just crashes the kernel (or block the video driver)
12:47 < tomty89> didn't someone say p8700 has no vt-d (or maybe even vt-x)?
12:47 < stevendale> tomty89, My P8700 laptop has an option to enable Virtualisation for Direct I/O in the BIOS
12:48 < stevendale> I had that enabled as well as VT-X
12:48 < tomty89> okay *shrug*
12:48 < stevendale> Brb
12:48 < tomty89> but still you need a spare/dedicated gpu for the guest
12:50 < satoshi_nakam0t0> hey
12:50 < Phaellow> guys I'm very retarded and set up a /etc/profile.d/ script that ends with exit 0; now everytime I login, I get logged out instantly. what can I do to fix this?
12:51 < Triffid_Hunter> Phaellow: boot with init=/bin/sh and fix it
12:51 < Triffid_Hunter> alternatively, use a liveusb
12:52 < Phaellow> ooh, I see :) Guess I can do that on grub right?
12:52 < Triffid_Hunter> yes
12:53 < Triffid_Hunter> Phaellow: and notice the security implications of physical access while you do this ;)
12:53 < Phaellow> My mind was all set on using ssh or sftp and I hadn't set that up properly. Thanks a ton :)
13:04 < stefycute> .
13:08 < BluesKaj> Hi folks
13:08 < djph> 'sup BluesKaj
13:09 < BluesKaj> Hey djph, morning coffee here, how about you?
13:10 < djph> second cup's on its way
13:10 < BluesKaj> :-)
13:12 < Agiofws> hello
13:12 < Agiofws> i've accidentally overwritten 500 pngs in a directory and i'd like to recover them is this possible with out having to recover ALL the files from my partition /dev/sda3 which is my root file system and recover ONLY from the certain directory?
13:12 < djph> Agiofws: sure, you have a backup?
13:13 < Agiofws> of my root file system ? which could be 130 GB ? no
13:14 < djph> good news - those 500 png's weren't important.
13:14 < Agiofws> ok :)
13:14 < Agiofws> i can always render tjem again total amount of 26h of rendering
13:14 < Agiofws> :P
13:15 < Paddy_NI> Hello, I have had this question answered quite a while back and unfortunately I did not make a note of the answer.  This command listed on the "photorec/testdisk" wiki is incorrect and I cannot figure out what is missing.
13:15 < Paddy_NI> find /path/to/recovered/directories -name \*.jpg -exec cp {} /path/to/new/folder/ \;
13:16 < Paddy_NI> I understand that I need to put the correct paths in, however I am not certain what is missing
13:16 < djph> nothing looks off there (other than the directories being examples)
13:16 < Paddy_NI> does the {} need to be wrapped in quotes?
13:17 < djph> well, the escaped '*' is a bit weird
13:17 < Paddy_NI> djph: I don't remember that being the issue, although I could be completely wrong
13:18 < Paddy_NI> I must actually just run it again and see what the output looks like
13:20 < rypervenche> Paddy_NI: Add echo before the cp amd then run that.
13:20 < rypervenche> It will just echo thebcommand that it would run instead of actually running it.
13:21 < Paddy_NI> rypervenche: Oh thanks for the tip :-)
13:29 < nai> say there's a directory /foo that is not owned by me, with permissions rwx------, containing a directory /foo/bar , owned by me, with the same permissions
13:29 < nai> is there no way for me to list /foo/bar's contents, given that i cannot traverse /foo's hierarchy?
13:30 < pppingme> you'd need at least +x on /foo
13:31 < tomty89> acl btw
13:40 < TaZeR> how come my systemctl status cronie is reporting its using 4.5gb of memory? is that to run all jobs or what? i know im not using that much memory right now
13:41 < djph> how much is used by buffers / cache
13:41 < TaZeR> im not sure, i didnt know those were taken into account in the reading
13:42 < TaZeR> im checking using "systemd-cgtop -m"
13:42 < TaZeR> it doesnt give that information
13:43 < djph> use free -m
13:43 < TaZeR> it says there is 4.3gb of buff/cache being used but how can i tie that directly to cronie?
13:44 < djph> e.g. right now I'm "using(tm)" 7.5GB ... with near on 5G being buffer/cache.
13:44 < djph> no, buffer/cache is for I/O
13:44 < TaZeR> my jobs really arnt that complex to require so much memory
13:45 < TaZeR> very basic system tasks like 4-5 of them
13:45 < TaZeR> maybe timeshift cause it does daily snapshots with rsync and stuff but i wouldnt know how to find out
13:45 < djph> it's the kernel grabbing it for disk, network, etc - anything that'll need to buffer or cache data before doing whatever to it.
13:46 < djph> but if your running processes needed more, that'd be the first thing to go
13:48 < mox> Currently writing this from unlimited 4G using an IP over DNS tunnel
13:48 < TaZeR> is there a way to see which systemd processes are using the most memory in real time and not buff/cache?
13:49 < djph> top
13:49 < Paddy_NI> I just figured it out.  This part -iname '*.jpg' -exec mv '{}' needs those quotes
13:57 < the_drow> Is /etc/hosts.allow distribution specific or will it work for any program that supports it?
14:00 < pabed> hi guys  , I have two NIC Ethernet and wifi , I need to trace route with wifi , I use this command sudo tarce route -i wlx000c43abfaa1 8.8.8.8 but does not work , I use it wrongly ?
14:01 < pabed> *traceroute
14:02 < JimBuntu> pabed, is "wlx000c43abfaa1" the name for the interface you see when doing something like ifconfig ?
14:03 < pabed> JimBuntu: yes
14:03 < JimBuntu> Then I would expect it to work. You said it doesn't work, what does happen?
14:04 < pabed> If this command is correct I dont know why it does not trace 8.8.8.8 while it access to internet and route to it
14:05 < paradis> if...
14:06 < JimBuntu> pabed, it may be simpler if you pastebin the output of ifconfig and the traceroute, both in a single paste
14:09 < Lope> mawk: Are you online buddy? Is there a way to make a nspawn cointainer get an IP automatically without manually setting the links up etc?
14:10 < pabed> JimBuntu: https://paste.linux.community/view/bc22fa9a
14:11 < mawk> yes Lope
14:11 < mawk> I mentionned that briefly
14:11 < mawk> you need to enable systemd-networkd in host and in container
14:11 < mawk> and everything will be automagic
14:12 < pabed> JimBuntu: https://paste.linux.community/view/c2a49e3d
14:14 < JimBuntu> pabed. idk. I see that the wifi network is in a different range from your wired network... I'm guessing there is some bad routing either on your system or the wifi network. Do you have functional internet if you disconnect the wired network?
14:15 < JimBuntu> Same response from trying 1.1.1.1 ?
14:17 < pabed> JimBuntu: https://paste.linux.community/view/1c9cdb9f
14:18 < pabed> I tried 1.1.1.1 with same responde
14:19 < Lope> mawk: thanks, well I got the network working by manually enabling the interfaces etc.
14:20 < Lope> mawk: What I mean is after I reboot the host, when I bring the container up again, I'd like it to "just work"
14:20 < Lope> I could script it, of course.
14:20 < Lope> I'm just wondering if there's a way to make it happen automagically
14:21 < mawk> yes I know Lope
14:22 < mawk> if systemd-networkd is enabled in both sides, it works automatically
14:22 < Lope> So I give them IP
14:22 < mawk> no it's automatic
14:22 < Lope> IP's once and enable the interfaces etc. then can reboot both and then it's automatic
14:22 < mawk> it's in some 10.0.0.0/8 subnet
14:22 < mawk> there's a dhcp server
14:22 < mawk> but you can modify that behavior
14:22 < Lope> Okay, I'll play around with it, thanks!
14:23 < mawk> if you want to link many containers together you can use --network-zone something instead of -n
14:23 < Lope> BTW I tried disabling IPv6 in /etc/systemctl.conf in the container, but it still get IPv6
14:23 < mawk> it creates a bridge and binds the containers to that bridge
14:23 < mawk> then run a DHCP server on the bridges
14:23 < mawk> containers can talk to each other, and the host acts as the router
14:23 < mawk> systemctl.conf ?
14:24 < mawk> you mean sysctl.conf ?
14:24 < Psi-Jack> Heh, Stop disabling IPv6! :)
14:24 < mawk> you put what ? net.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6=1 and net.ipv6.conf.default.disable_ipv6=1 ?
14:24 < mawk> yeah it's harmless here
14:24 < Lope> Psi-Jack: IPv6 is of no practical benefit to most people and is a privacy nightmare.
14:24 < mawk> you get a link-local address but that's all
14:25 < mawk> you have some workarounds for the privacy
14:25 < mawk> temporary addresses for example
14:25 < Psi-Jack> ...
14:25 < Lope> And also I don't like seeing IPv6 crap on my `ip addr show`, considering the above.
14:25 < mawk> ip -4 addr show
14:25 < Psi-Jack> ip -4 a
14:25 < Lope> haha mawk: you've got the fancy ip commands today!
14:25 < Psi-Jack> Don't even need all those extra characters. :)
14:26 < mawk> lol
14:26 < Psi-Jack> As for "privacy" You're on the internet.
14:27 < mAniAk-_-> Lope: v6 will be the standard soon™, better get used to it now,
14:27 < Lope> The problem with `ip -4 addr show` (I think I've seen it before) is it hides the MAC addresses. And I like seeing the MAC's
14:27 < mawk> it's fun to play with
14:27 < Psi-Jack> mAniAk-_-: No it doesn't.
14:27 < mawk> autoconf and NDP is way more pleasant than DHCP and ARP
14:27 < mAniAk-_-> RIPE just ran out of their last /22 from their last /8
14:27 < SkunkyFone> mAniAk-_-: they've been saying that for 20 years... when is "soon"? :)
14:27 < Psi-Jack> You get MAC addresses in 'ip l' not 'ip a'
14:28 < Lope> Psi-Jack: I get MACs running `ip addr show`
14:28 < Lope> with IPv6 disabled, I get MACs and IPv4 in `ip addr show` and no IPv6
14:28 < mawk> yeah you can't have both ip -0 and ip -4
14:29 < Psi-Jack> ip l
14:29 < Psi-Jack> Simple.
14:29 < Lope> Anyways, so I disabled IPv6 like this on various computers that I have. works. but not inside the nspawn systemd container: printf "\n\n#Disable all IPv6\nnet.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6 = 1\nnet.ipv6.conf.default.disable_ipv6 = 1\nnet.ipv6.conf.lo.disable_ipv6 = 1\n" >> /etc/sysctl.conf
14:29 < mAniAk-_-> SkunkyFone: who knows, 5y, 10y, 15y? for now more and more of the end users will be behind cgnat, it will just continue like that until some point
14:30 < mawk> the last line isn't needed Lope
14:30 < mawk> once you've set it into all, lo is disabled too
14:30 < Lope> mawk: ok. Any ideas why the container still gets ipv6?
14:31 < mawk> you did that into the container ?
14:31 < Lope> probably systemd is making it happen and doesn't care about systemctl.conf
14:31 < Lope> yeah.
14:31 < mawk> after that you need to reload the fil
14:31 < mawk> e
14:31 < mawk> sysctl --system
14:31 < mawk> it's sysctl.conf by the way
14:31 < mawk> it's not related to systemd
14:31 < Lope> is this an error or what? "sysctl: setting key "net.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6": Read-only file system"
14:31 < mawk> ah, yes it's an error
14:32 < mawk> for some unknown reason, systemd mounts the fs read-only
14:32 < mawk> remount it read-write
14:32 < Lope> ah, okay.
14:32 < mawk> find the
14:32 < mawk> find the longest mount point into /proc/sys into mount output, and remount ti
14:32 < mawk> it
14:32 < micmac> Hi, I need help for changing strings like 1998-03-13 00:00:00.000 by 1998-03-13T00:00:00.000Z in a file
14:32 < micmac> So it's just adding a T in the middle and a Z in the end, I think I can do that with sed, but i don't know how
14:32 < Lope> lol, even when I just ran bash, it was a read only root FS
14:33 < vlt> micmac: I'd use awk.
14:34 < mawk> I don't know anything about sed but I guess something like 's/([0-9]{4}-[0-9]{2}-{0-9]{2}) ([0-9]{2}:[0-9]{2}:[0-9]{2}\.[0-9]{3})/\1T\2Z/g'
14:34 < mawk> there's a problem if it's the case Lope
14:34 < SkunkyFone> micmac: is ther ealways a space where you want the T?
14:34 < mawk> nspawn doesn't do this, unless you pass it wrong options
14:34 < SkunkyFone> micmac: if yes, that's simpler
14:34 < micmac> SkunkyFone: yes
14:35 < vlt> mawk: awk '{ print $1 "T" $2 "Z" }'
14:35 < mawk> yeah that looks simpler lol
14:35 < vlt> micmac: ^
14:35 < Lope> mawk: is /proc/sys the root filesystem?
14:35 < micmac> but i need to replace every occurence inside the file
14:35 < mawk> no
14:35 < Lope> mawk: I don't see a root in `mount | grep ro`
14:35 < mawk> normally the mount point is /proc
14:36 < mawk> mount -o remount,rw /proc
14:36 < vlt> micmac: Then do it.
14:36 < SkunkyFone> micmac: that's what awk does... 1 line at a time...
14:36 < Lope> really!?! proc. I had no idea.
14:36 < micmac> oh ok, i'll try then thanks
14:36 < mawk> Lope: it's the proc filesystem
14:37 < micmac> but.. there are many other things in the file
14:37 < mawk> but I just checked in some nspawn instance and it does other things
14:37 < micmac> not only those lines
14:37 < Lope> mawk: just proc didn't work. But I also did `mount -o remount,rw /proc/sys` and that worked.
14:37 < mawk> I see a longer mount point in /proc/sys/net
14:37 < mawk> yeah
14:37 < micmac> "requiredDate": "1998-03-13 00:00:00.000"
14:37 < mawk> /proc/sys is ro on my side, for an unknown reason
14:37 < mawk> I don't know why they do this, the proc filesystem is local to the PID namespace
14:37 < mawk> they shouldn't have to mess with it
14:37 < mawk> it's secure as it is
14:37 < micmac> i need every line starting with "requiredDate" changed the way i said
14:38 < micmac> it's not so simple :/
14:40 < micmac> it's not just a file with dates, it's a json file with many things and lines like this : "requiredDate": "1998-03-13 00:00:00.000"
14:41 < micmac> I don't know how to parse it and change only the dates like you said
15:02 < Lope> I made a init.d style script in /etc/init.d/ and I made it executable, then I ran `chmod a+x init-ct && update-rc.d init-ct enable`
15:02 < Lope> And the 2nd command it said `update-rc.d: error: no runlevel symlinks to modify, aborting!`
15:03 < mawk> you don't have systemd Lope ?
15:03 < mawk> if it's a networking script you can use ifupdown
15:03 < mawk> that's what I did at first for my iptables rules
15:04 < Lope> I've not learned to make a systemd startup script.
15:04 < Lope> I just use init.d on all my systems.
15:04 < Lope> It's ugly but it works.
15:04 < Psi-Jack> You should learn. :)
15:04 < Lope> I've not really accepted systemd into my life. I'm hoping if I ignore it, it'll go away.
15:04 < mawk> lol
15:04 < Psi-Jack> It won't go away.
15:04 < dgurney> no, it doesn't work like that
15:05 < Lope> okay, but systemd makes init.d startup scripts work, normally...?
15:05 < mawk> I ended up doing an iptables.service systemd service for my iptables rules
15:05 < dgurney> they work, but you aren't meant to keep using them
15:05 < mawk> because it's well integrated with other services like fail2ban which specify After=iptables.service PartOf=iptables.service and so on
15:05 < mawk> yes Lope
15:05 < CuriousMind> Hi. I am trying to connect to my instance on AWS. I generated a new private key using PuTTY, downloaded the public key and placed them in the same file. I tried signing on to my instance but the Server keeps refusing my key
15:06 < CuriousMind> How can I fix this?
15:06 < rypervenche> CuriousMind: You downloaded the public key from where?
15:07 < CuriousMind> rypervenche: I am a student. I downloaded it from a school website which has the class files etc
15:08 < toffe> Hey guys
15:08 < toffe> anyone who know a easy way to parse out a special field of a mysql query with bash?
15:08 < rypervenche> CuriousMind: So in order to log onto a server, you should be creating a public and private key pair on your local machine, and then putting the public key on your AWS server. You shouldn't be downloading a public key from some place, unless I'm misunderstanding how you're trying to do things.
15:08 < CuriousMind> rypervenche: No, I think that makes sense
15:09 < rypervenche> toffe: mysql -Bse 'USE databasename; SELECT * FROM tablename;'
15:09 < CuriousMind> Please show me how to put public key on my instance on AWS
15:09 < toffe> rypervenche: does that create a dumpfile?
15:09 < rypervenche> CuriousMind: Do you already have password access to the AWS instance?
15:09 < toffe> ready for import?
15:09 < CuriousMind> rypervenche: Do I have password access to AWS instance? Yes I do
15:09 < CuriousMind> rypervenche: I do because I was able to start it up
15:09 < rypervenche> toffe: No, if you need a dumpfile, then you will want: "mysqldump databasename > /path/to/database_dump.sql"
15:10 < rypervenche> CuriousMind: Then you can run the command: "ssh-copy-id username@server.com" or however you normally log into the AWS instance. Just change "ssh" to "ssh-copy-id". See if that works for you.
15:10 < toffe> rypervenche: yeah cuz i am trying to dump a database where i got some data i need obfuscated, any idea on how to do that easily with a bash script?
15:11 < rypervenche> toffe: What is your ultimate goal here? Do you want to make a database dump and then share it with someone else with certain pieces of information obfuscated?
15:11 < toffe> rypervenche: exactly, and only using bash so the script is not depended on anything
15:11 < CuriousMind> rypervenche: Wait, I don't think I have access to the instance cause every time I try connecting it refuses the key. However, I was able to start the instance
15:13 < rypervenche> toffe: You can do the database dump the way I showed above. As for obfuscating, you could probably run sed commands to do a search and replace on the exact strings that you are looking for. Or around the strings.
15:13 < rypervenche> CuriousMind: Is this your instance or was it given to you by someone?
15:14 < CuriousMind> rypervenche: Given to me by someone else?
15:14 < CuriousMind> I created it rypervenche
15:14 < toffe> rypervenche: currently my file is generating a dump of everything except for the "sensitive data" then it dumps the sensitive data on a own .sql file based on tables. So i was thinking about doing SED to replace that data with a unreversable crypt of it
15:15 < toffe> Dont know if that is the most efficent way to do it
15:17 < rypervenche> toffe: Well, I don't know what your "sensitive data looks like" or how often your database changes. If all of your sensitive data is in one table, then you could exclude that table from your dump and keep it in a separate dump file. It all depends on how your database is structured and where your sensitive data is.
15:17 < rypervenche> CuriousMind: Ok, well you should have password access to it then.
15:18 < CuriousMind> rypervenche: Right
15:18 < rypervenche> CuriousMind: If they key doesn't work, then a password should work, unless you build the instance with your key file.
15:18 < CuriousMind> rypervenche: Yeah, I think that's what I did. Using key file
15:19 < rypervenche> CuriousMind: You put the public key of the key pair that you created into AWS? Or was it a different public key file?
15:19 < Lope> mawk: now for whatever reason the veth has not appeared on the host :/
15:20 < CuriousMind> rypervenche: I don't think I did that
15:20 < toffe> rypervenche: yeah is kinda what I am doing now. 1. Dumping structure, 2. Dumping all but "accounts, messages, data" tables onto the same file. 3. dumping accounts, messages, data to sensitive.sql with 1 insert line pr request
15:20 < CuriousMind> rypervenche: Someone is taking a look at the problem, one second
15:21 < mawk> that's doubtful Lope
15:21 < toffe> so i could easily in PHP make a regexp search and repalce for "INSERT INTO `accounts` VALUES(.*?,.*?,(.*?)"
15:21 < mawk> a veth pair has two ends
15:21 < mawk> how do you probe for it ?
15:21 < toffe> then replace that last (.*?) with "md5(data)"
15:21 < Lope> mawk ahahah. it's that damn -4 thing :)
15:21 < toffe> but i am struggling getting my regexp to work with bash
15:21 < rypervenche> CuriousMind: You need to use the public key of the key pair you created in PuTTY, and then you need to put your private key where SSH knows to look for it. Or use ssh -i to get to the private key.
15:21 < Lope> it was hiding the veth cos it didn't have an IP on the host :)
15:21 < Lope> (in the alias)
15:21 < mawk> yeah
15:22 < Lope> I've taken it out.
15:22 < mawk> lol
15:22 < rypervenche> toffe: Well, you wouldn't be using bash only that way, but you could. It sounds like you're not using hashed passwords in your database :/
15:22 < Lope> mawk: how can I run the container in the background, then list all running containers and attach to one?
15:23 < mawk> in the background I don't know, but you can attach with machinectl login $container_name
15:23 < toffe> rypervenche: nah its the names not the passwords. They want the backup to be anonymious so no names get leaked. :P
15:23 < mawk> in the background I guess you'd make a .nspawn file to be started in the background with machinectl start
15:23 < mawk> and list with machinectl list
15:23 < CuriousMind> rypervenche: I see, makes sense. I'll let you know if anything happens. Thanks
15:24 < toffe> rypervenche: /INSERT INTO `account` VALUES \(.*?,.*?,(.*?),.*/g this selects the third value so i can replace it but SED wont accept that regexp
15:24 < toffe> it is valid but i am not that good with sed unfortually
15:25 < Lope> mawk: thanks
15:25 < rypervenche> toffe: Well, using md5 checksums isn't much better than plaintext :P
15:26 < toffe> rypervenche: nah, i know it was just an example. Gonna replace it with "Anonymious User" or something
15:26 < CuriousMind> rypervenche: Thanks for the help. I'll be back if anything
15:26 < Lope> mawk: I tried the login command, while I'm already "logged in" where I started it as a shell command in another termanal window. "Failed to get login PTY: There is no system bus in container "
15:26 < mawk> systemd isn't installed in the container ?
15:26 < mawk> or dbus, maybe
15:27 < mawk> try to install dbus
15:27 < Lope> mawk: I didn't install anything like that yet.
15:27 < mawk> systemd should be installed by default
15:27 < Lope> okay, thanks. That's one of the terrible limitations of LXC. TTY limitations.
15:27 < Lope> I just debootstrapped stretch, and didn't install anything yet.
15:27 < Lope> Will check now.
15:28 < rypervenche> toffe: sed isn't bash either, but you can use whatever you want. Both sed and php can use regex, so it will be the same syntax, for the most part.
15:29 < toffe> rypervenche: yeah by bash i mean linux default commands, sorry bad at explainig :P
15:29 < toffe> I found my problem, sed does not support non-greedy
15:29 < Lope> mawk: also IIRC you can't use screen inside a LXC container.
15:29 < toffe> its all or nothing on .*?
15:30 < mawk> that's the result a badly written tty pipe Lope
15:30 < mawk> in LXC I believe
15:30 < mawk> but with nspawn what is passed to the container is your vanilla controlling terminal, you should have no issues
15:30 < Lope> mawk: yeah LXC has a REALLY BAD UX.
15:30 < rypervenche> toffe: You can perl regex at that point or php, it won't matter.
15:31 < mawk> just a little security vulnerability related to the fact the container can write in the terminal input queue and execute commands on your side I guess
15:31 < Lope> It's a pity, LXC could have been good. I don't know why people let it suck so badly.
15:31 < Lope> mawk: wow, that's dodgy.
15:31 < Lope> mawk: does anyone use containers in production, for example to replace OpenVZ hosting?
15:31 < mawk> let me verify that claim with nspawn
15:31 < toffe> rypervenche: perl and php are not included in our linux instances  =/
15:32 < toffe> java is though. maybe make a java app instead for this
15:32 < mawk> I do it, other people probably do
15:32 < Lope> OpenVZ hosting must be dying now I'd imagine. Because you can't install Stretch on 2.x kernels anymore.
15:32 < mawk> but the most secure containers are not very flexible
15:32 < Lope> And you need stretch to use new versions of libc and so on.
15:32 < mawk> you have to create a separated user namespaces mapping to an unprivileged user, and that prevents you from doing low level stuff in the container
15:32 < Lope> I really like OpenVZ. It's a pity they couldn't update to a modern kernel.
15:32 < mawk> like doing mknod
15:33 < Lope> when you say "I do it" do you mean you offer customers to have shell access inside your nspawn containers?
15:34 < mawk> it's not spawn that I use for that but LXC, and not really customers but friends and friends of friends
15:34 < mawk> but in the past I was using nspawn containers yeah
15:35 < mawk> LXC is tighter security wise, it can use apparmor, seccomp, it uses cgroups, it displays the right info relevant to the available memory, etc
15:35 < mawk> they went a little further in emulating a working environment and securing it
15:35 < mawk> but it's the same core principle, linux namespaces
15:36 < mawk> also nspawn can do unprivileged containers as well
15:36 < Lope> mawk: yeah I saw that LXC was well developed in terms of security etc.
15:36 < mawk> using option -U (you'll like to backup your root tree before doing that)
15:36 < Lope> But then why does LXC's TTY situation suck so badly?
15:36 < mawk> that's a mystery
15:37 < mawk> first, there is a problem with the tty mode they set, the inside tty is in raw mode where it shouldn't or the converse
15:37 < mawk> also there's a race between getty and something else, preventing the login prompt from appearing in debian oldstable for instance
15:37 < mawk> that problem doesn't appear anymore with stretch, but the terminal being in the wrong mode is still here
15:37 < Lope> yeah, I mean I could live with LXC if you could have a fully functional container via SSH, but you can't. because you can't even run screen from SSH.
15:37 < mawk> why not ?
15:38 < mawk> normally everything is there for it to work
15:38 < mawk> especially screen size transfer between your tty and the ssh session
15:38 < mawk> tmux/screen works for me through ssh
15:38 < Lope> I can't remember the details, but I just recall trying to use LXC as a "VM" was an epic fail.
15:38 < mawk> it's maybe about the TERM variable
15:38 < Lope> And it was very lacking vs OpenVZ, when I tried it.
15:39 < mawk> nspawn looks like it has mitigated the vulnerability I was talking about
15:39 < Lope> Hmm, maybe I did get it working actually. So I can't confirm ATM.
15:39 < mawk> to see it in action with sudo, type that: sudo -u nobody python3 -c 'import tty, fcntl, os; fd = os.open("/dev/tty", os.O_RDWR); [fcntl.ioctl(fd, tty.TIOCSTI, bytes((c,)), False) for c in b"id\n"]'
15:40 < mawk> it will type something as your normal user while it intended to be run as nobody
15:40 < Lope> very nice mawk. Thanks for your suggestion! I installed dbus in the container and now I'm able to login to it from multiple terminal windows.
15:40 < mawk> nice
15:40 < Lope> So at this stage do you really think nspawn is behind LXC for security?
15:41 < Lope> I never learned how to use apparmour. It seemed superflous. The kernel and cgroups is supposed to keep the VM jailed. If the kernel fucks out, all bets are off.
15:41 < Lope> (the way I see it anyway)
15:41 < mawk> my attempt was that: systemd-nspawn -D rootdir -a setsid -c -w python3 -c 'import tty, fcntl, os; fd = os.open("/dev/tty", os.O_RDWR); [fcntl.ioctl(fd, tty.TIOCSTI, bytes((c,)), False) for c in b"id\n"]'
15:42 < Lope> Wow, scary.
15:42 < mawk> but it doesn't type "id" as the outer user
15:42 < Lope> But even so, you'd run each container as it's own user, as you mentioned, so the risk is quite low.
15:42 < Lope> Even with the vulnerability.
15:42 < mawk> I mean it types id in the current shell
15:43 < mawk> your current shell is your own user
15:43 < mawk> so everything could happen
15:43 < Lope> holy shit.
15:43 < Lope> Dodgyville.
15:43 < mawk> lol
15:43 < mawk> sudo is vulnerable to that
15:43 < mawk> with the default config
15:43 < Lope> But what if you first login as the user, then run it. Instead of just su'ing the thing?
15:44 < Lope> I've got a method that's quite unconventional that I like to use. I launch screen, then tell screen to type commands into the window.
15:44 < mawk> lol
15:44 < mawk> yeah
15:44 < mawk> well you can also tune sudo to not do that
15:44 < Lope> So I can su a unprivledged user, then run whatever command there.
15:44 < mawk> or do like nspawn did (I guess), flush the input buffer
15:44 < mawk> before giving control back to bash
15:45 < Lope> So if I login to the screen session, if whatever I ran crashed, I can just press (up) (enter) and try run it again.
15:45 < mawk> yeah
15:45 < Lope> and I'm already logged in as the correct user, with the right envvars and in the right directory etc.
15:45 < mawk> nice
15:47 < mawk> also no cgroups and namespaces are often not sufficient
15:47 < mawk> you could want to forbid even using the root user from inside the container
15:48 < mawk> or drop some capabilities you don't want to be used
15:48 < mawk> or prevent creating a container inside the container, or any other use
15:48 < Lope> `man systemd-nspawn` mentions setting memory limits but doesn't go into detail. So it looks like limiting RAM use is possible.
15:48 < mawk> that's where seccomp/apparmor/selinux/whatever are useful I guess
15:48 < mawk> yeah, with cgroups it's easy
15:48 < mawk> with a .nspawn file it's even easier
15:48 < mawk> I think
15:48 < Lope> okay, so it's not something you've done?
15:49 < Psi-Jack> I should really look into nspawn more.
15:49 < mawk> yeah Lope
15:49 < mawk> I've done it with lxc but not spawn
15:49 < mawk> but still it should be easy
15:50 < mawk> it's in the memory cgroup, you find the correct "slice" and tune the parameters
15:50 < Lope> Yeah, I've also done it with LXC
15:50 < mawk> after you've tried enough times, you can tell systemd to do it
15:51 < mawk> normally it's in /sys/fs/cgroup/memory/machine.slice/$CONTAINER_NAME.scope
15:51 < mawk> you can tune the cgroup parameters
15:51 < Lope> Oh, that's super easy.
15:51 < Lope> (sounds like it)
15:52 < mawk> yeah
15:52 < Lope> But it's not something I need right now.
15:52 < Lope> Basically nspawn is more convenient due to it's shell capabilities. But LXC seems like the professional choice.
15:53 < Psi-Jack> AFAIK, nspawn utilizes LXC
15:54 < mawk> I was about to read the docs but I saw "NOTE: This document is hopelessly outdated and it asks for a complete rewrite. It still contains a useful information so we are keeping it here but make sure to check the current code if you need a deeper understanding."
15:54 < mawk> docker uses (used ?) LXC rather Psi-Jack no ?
15:54 < mawk> nspawn uses its own thing
15:54 < mawk> containerization isn't extremely hard and lxc is a monster
15:54 < Psi-Jack> Docker used to use LXC. They now use their own hand-crafted nonsense, libcontainer.
15:54 < mawk> a couple unshare(), a couple mount(), a chroot(), and you're here
15:55 < Lope> Docker is a pile of shit in my opinion.
15:55 < Lope> I wasted a whole lot of time learning how to use it etc.
15:55 < Psi-Jack> mawk: Proper containerization utilizes kernel features, such as namespaces, hence, not just chroot'ing.
15:56 < Lope> That's right.
15:56 < Lope> When using the kernel features it's reasonably secure.
16:00 < Lope> mawk: interestingly, I can run nspawn inside a screen, which is nice.
16:02 < mawk> yeah
16:02 < mawk> yeah that's what I meant by "unshare()" Psi-Jack
16:02 < mawk> namespaces
16:02 < Lope> I really need to find a way to run the container in daemon/headless/background mode.
16:02 < mawk> the .nspawn file
16:02 < mawk> you can read man systemd.nspawn I guess
16:02 < mawk> normally it all connects up very nice, Lope
16:02 < mawk> the ttys
16:02 < mawk> it's just that LXC does it badly
16:03 < Lope> Because I want to be able to up it's interface on the host and set an IP on the host and run whatever stuff on the host after the guest has booted.
16:03 < mawk> terminal are pretty much like pipes, they just have a bunch of ioctls to control some other aspects like screen size
16:03 < mawk> they should be able to stack up normally
16:04 < mawk> but for that, for instance, every terminal in the chain but the last must be in some variant of the raw mode
16:04 < Lope> yaeh. I suppose one way to run it in background mode is to run it with nohup and >/dev/null 2>&1 &
16:04 < mawk> and the last terminal must be in whatever mode dictated by the application, namely cooked mode as a default
16:04 < mawk> yeah Lope I guess you could
16:04 < mawk> but then it'd allocate a tty for nothing
16:04 < mawk> or no, actually
16:04 < mawk> there won't be any tty to bind
16:05 < mawk> you could start it with setsid -w to mimic the no tty situation
16:05 < mawk> to find out what happens
16:06 < Lope> mawk: yeah, it worked. It's running in the background and the nohup worked. I closed the shell, and it's still running.
16:06 < mawk> instead of nohup you can do & disown
16:06 < mawk> in bash
16:06 < mawk> but nohup is nice with its log file capacity
16:06 < mawk> where just stuff & disown will spit out stuff to your tty
16:07 < mawk> obligating you to put that ugly &> /dev/null thing
16:07 < Lope> oh, well I use >/dev/null 2>&1 which should prevent junk in the tty
16:07 < mawk> yeah
16:07 < Lope> Oh I see
16:08 < Lope> It didn't work.
16:08 < Lope> Unless I'm not running it right.
16:08 < Lope> Probably not.
16:09 < mawk> let me try what happens
16:10 < jml2> meh
16:10 < jml2> &>/dev/null
16:10 < Lope> disown looks like a manual thing you run after it's started.
16:10 < mawk> yeah it doesn't care about the no terminal situation
16:10 < mawk> it just starts as usual
16:10 < jml2> Lope, that's sloppy script coding
16:12 < mawk> I guess nspawn isn't fit for that
16:12 < mawk> but it works
16:14 < jml2> nspawn is the new chroot
16:14 < mawk> Lope: sudo setsid -w systemd-nspawn --register=no -b -D router --private-network </dev/null >out.log 2>&1 & works for me
16:15 < mawk> it allocates a tty out of nowhere, because normally the controlling terminal of your bash session is bound to /dev/console inside the container
16:15 < jml2> mawk, no
16:15 < mawk> let me see what nspawn has bound /dev/console to
16:15 < Lope> jml2: what is, specifically?
16:15 < jml2> mawk, it is a chroot app... you're basically chroot the same root folder
16:15 < mawk> what are you saying jml2
16:15 < mawk> it's not a "chroot app"
16:16 < mawk> it produces full containers
16:16 < jml2> http://0pointer.net/blog/projects/changing-roots.html
16:16 < mawk> creates cgroup/ipc/uts/pid/mount/network/user namespaces, boot by executing /sbin/init
16:16 < jml2> mawk, the author Poettering calls it a chroot alternative
16:16 < mawk> that's a full container to me
16:16 < Lope> mawk: what is your setsid thing doing?
16:16 < jml2> mawk, the fuckan author himself.
16:16 < jml2> hmm
16:17 < uplime> > fuckan
16:17 < mawk> it could be used for that, jml2
16:17 < mawk> it's not the only use
16:17 < jml2> mawk, well argue with Poettering then
16:17 < jml2> lol
16:17 < uplime> a man page appears to say "In many ways it is similar to chroot(1), but more powerful since it fully virtualizes the file system hierarchy, as well as the process tree, the various IPC subsystems and the host and domain name."
16:17 < mawk> and Poettering either says chroot because that's what nspawn was in 2011, or it's for vulgarization, or it's to prevent people from taking nspawn as a full container solution
16:17 < Lope> jml2: theraphy is a suicide alternative.
16:17 < jml2> count the number of times he says "chroot" on that link.
16:17 < mawk> in either way, it's a full container solution, unsecure or not
16:17 < Psi-Jack> systemd-nspawn may be used to run a command or OS in a light-weight namespace container.
16:17 < Lope> jml2: just like a container is a chroot alternative.
16:17 < jml2> nspawn also supports "-b"
16:17 < mawk> your link is 7 years old
16:18 < mawk> and you call the -b option a chroot ?
16:18 < mawk> you should revise your definition of chroot then
16:18 < Psi-Jack> And said link, isn't Poettering.
16:18 < jml2> "it allocates a tty out of nowhere"
16:18 < jml2> ^ lol
16:18 < mawk> you didn't understand what I was saying
16:18 < mawk> we were trying to run nspawn as a daemon, so with no controlling terminal
16:18 < Lope> jml2: you're reasoning like a child. "count the number of times he says" has no bearing on the matter.
16:18 < jml2> Psi-Jack, uh yes it is his you doofus :)
16:19 < jml2> nubs
16:19 < mawk> the default behavior of nspawn is to take the current controlling terminal, for instance /dev/pts/42, and bind-mount it to /dev/console inside the container, then start /sbin/init on it
16:19 < celyr> Has anyone experience with a ticket system ?
16:19 < celyr> I want to try one for my small business
16:19 < uplime> celyr: what kind of tickets?
16:19 < celyr> support tickets
16:19 < uplime> oh support tickets?
16:19 < mawk> binding the /dev/console tty to the outside pty
16:19 < celyr> yeah
16:19 < mawk> in a daemon setup, there's no outside pty
16:19 < Lope> jml2: with reasoning like yours, I don't have time to read your comments.
16:19 < jml2> Lope, lol ... "it allocates a tty out of nowhere"
16:19 < mawk> hence I said "it allocates a tty out of nowhere"
16:20 < uplime> i haven't used any opensource ones, just salesforce :/
16:20 < mawk> if you don't understand that, please have a read on ttys
16:20 < jml2> Lope, nice logic. carry on your fun little cutieness
16:20 < celyr> I was going bugzilla but it looks an overkill to me
16:21 < Lope> celyr: I don't have any XP but I'd suggest you look at a few free ones, and a few paid ones and see what they offer. Then try a free one if you feel indifferent.
16:21 < celyr> plan was to start with a free, standard one
16:22 < celyr> it's an internal tool
16:22 < Lope> celyr: I know it's not very GNU-loving of me, but I don't like bugzilla. It feels ancient and cruddy.
16:22 < celyr> yeah that was also my feeling
16:22 < Lope> celyr: I can't imagine normal people using bugzilla.
16:22 < Lope> Normal people need retard size and quantity of buttons.
16:22 < stennowork> in centos firewall-cmd, is a service just a shortcut for a certain port? i.e. is --add-service ssh the same as --add-port 22/tcp ?
16:23 < Lope> every additional option means 10% extra phone calls aka 10% more support work for you.
16:23 < triceratux> waaa dont talk about red space hat that way https://bugzilla.redhat.com/
16:23 < celyr> Yeah exactly
16:23 < celyr> I need somwthing really easy
16:23 < Lope> triceratux: your favorite company hey :)
16:24 < Lope> just pretend you're 9 years old, and then choose one.
16:24 < Lope> from the user's perspective.
16:24 < uplime> stennowork: probably. its probably just using the mapping in /etc/services (i think thats the location)
16:24 < kazdax> when i run hexchat
16:24 < uplime> note that I don't have any experience with that particular firewall, but I would agree with that guess
16:24 < stennowork> uplime, thanks, i will investigate that
16:25 < kazdax> is one of my terminal suppose to be taken over ?
16:25 < stennowork> fair enough
16:25 < stennowork> thanks!
16:25 < kazdax> can i not use that same terminal to do soemthing ?
16:25 < kazdax> or if that terminal stuck to hexchat ?
16:25 < uplime> kazdax: you're launching hexchat from the terminal?
16:25 < kazdax> is*
16:25 < kazdax> yea
16:25 < Psi-Jack> kazdax: hexchat &
16:25 < kazdax> i should do it from GUI ?
16:25 < Psi-Jack> Or Ctrl+Z; bg %1
16:26 < uplime> if you're going to do `hexchat &`, i would also add some redirects to /dev/null
16:26 < Psi-Jack> Yes, you should do it from GUI, cause if hextchat outputs to stdout, it'll fill your terminal with that too.
16:26 < Lope> celyr: I don't know much about salesforce and I don't want to hate on any person or company unnecessarily, but I don't have the greatest feeling about their company. They're a little too big and monopolistic in my perception (which may be wrong). I'd favour going with a smaller company's system before considering SF, unless the service/price is much better.
16:26 < mawk> anyway Lope my daemonization works, it just binds /dev/console to something stupid
16:26 < kazdax> ahh i see
16:26 < Lope> mawk: alrighty. I'll use my ugly method. it works and I'm comfortable with it :)
16:27 < mawk> yeah
16:27 < mawk> and useful if you want some emergency shell
16:27 < Lope> mawk: I didn't understand your setsid thing, btw
16:27 < Lope> sudo setsid -w systemd-nspawn --register=no -b -D router --private-network </dev/null >out.log 2>&1 &
16:28 < mawk> it's just to prevent nspawn from retrieving the current terminal from /dev/tty
16:28 < mawk> to really mimic a daemon situation
16:28 < mawk> nohup does pretty much the same
16:29 < Lope> mawk: I see, thanks.
16:29 < stennowork> uplime, seemed to have worked like expected re. service vs. port in firewall-cmd
16:30 < uplime> nice
16:31 < mawk> terminal are a pretty complicated subsystem as you see Lope
16:31 < mawk> it's like the very first thing Linux was, a VT220 emulator
16:31 < mawk> iirc
16:32 < stennowork> i a project i am hacking along with, i have to look into the inner details of stuff like termcap
16:32 < stennowork> but its fun
16:32 < mawk> you have controlling terminal, foreground/background process groups, session identifiers, terminal modes, VT220 control codes, etc
16:33 < stennowork> vt100 codes though
16:33 < thatg> hello, what's going on?
16:33 < mawk> that's where jml2 is committing a fallacy from personal incredulity
16:34 < jml2> i've used it over 4 years ago
16:34 < mawk> yeah VT100 maybe stennowork sorry
16:34 < triceratux> thatg: awaiting that bionic beaver with bated breath
16:34 < bmk3000> k
16:34 < bmk3000> that seems
16:34 < bmk3000> good
16:34 < jml2> apparently you dont even know you can have it interactive with systemd startup scripts when using -b and issuing "poweroff" to exit it completely.
16:34 < jml2> never mind the author calls it a "chroot alternative".
16:34 < jml2> not my words.
16:34 < jml2> take it with the author punk :)
16:34  * jml2 laughs 
16:34 < mawk> that's the very first thing I suggered to Lope
16:34 < mawk> if you read carefully
16:34 < stennowork> mawk, http://www.termsys.demon.co.uk/vtansi.htm
16:34 < mawk> but he prefers the other way, he's free
16:35 < Lope> mawk: trying to shut down the CT. What am I missing? `machinectl -s=SIGTERM foo`
16:35 < mawk> they call it a chroot alternative that isolates IPC, cgroups, networking, mount points, ...
16:35 < mawk> wait that's a container
16:35 < mawk> machinectl poweroff foo Lope ?
16:35 < mawk> that's how I do it
16:35 < mawk> or just halt in the container
16:35 < jml2> it's not "they" moron. That's poettering's blog site.
16:36 < stennowork> in our game we hada related bug, where could name a certain item, and you could put control sequences in that name, and when another player would pick up and look at that item, it would fill the terminal with "E"s
16:36 < Lope> oh, nice!
16:36 < jml2> and yes I do follow him on Gplus..
16:36 < jml2> he even references his own blog.
16:36  * jml2 ignores mawk
16:36 < Lope> mawk, yeah I did `shutdown -h now` in the container. I was looking for an easier way when not inside it.
16:36 < mawk> from the manpage: "systemd-nspawn may be used to run a command or OS in a light-weight namespace container. In many ways it is similar to chroot(1), but more powerful since it fully virtualizes the file system hierarchy, as well as the process tree, the various IPC subsystems and the host and domain name."
16:37 < mawk> but ok, it's just a chroot
16:37 < mawk> let's just adjust our definition of chroot then
16:37 < mawk> and make jml2 happy
16:37 < mawk> differences between nspawn and LXC are in the little details, also the security/isolation
16:37 < mawk> both are full blown containers
16:38 < Lope> mawk: how do you execute a command in the running container?
16:38 < mawk> machinectl can do it I guess
16:38 < mawk> machinectl shell $NAME something
16:38 < Lope> I'm looking at the man page but it's not obvious. k will try that
16:38 < mawk> machinectl help is nicer than the manpage I find
16:39 < mawk> man 4 console_codes also stennowork
16:39 < Lope> mawk: this didn't work: `machinectl shell foo hostname`
16:39 < mawk> hostname is a command that requires you to be in the UTS namespace, dunno if shell does that
16:39 < Lope> oh, you're right. it's extensive.
16:40 < mawk> you'll have better luck with ssh container command maybe
16:40 < mawk> to have the full blown environment
16:40 < mawk> but for 99% of the other commands, machinectl shell will work
16:40 < mawk> hostname happen to be one of the bad ones
16:40 < oiaohm> mawk: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroot   chroot is very much legacy.     containers are up in the security level of jails and zones.
16:40 < mawk> yes oiaohm
16:40 < mawk> I was being ironic
16:41 < mawk> jml2 insisted on calling my nspawn container a chroot because some blog post by some unknown guy called nspawn a chroot alternative
16:41 < mawk> so I said that
16:41 < mawk> yeah they're cool bugs stennowork
16:42 < stennowork> silly things could be done with that
16:42 < stennowork> but it was since fixed
16:42  * jml2 http://whois.domaintools.com/0pointer.net  
16:42 < jml2> !ops mawk harrassing non-stop
16:42 < mawk> lol
16:43 < jml2> that unknown guy is mentioned on the whois.
16:43 < jml2> Lope, i've stopped long ago on this garbage.
16:44 < jml2> even Psi-Jack is not as stubborn and ignorant
16:44 < mawk> from you blog post: "More importantly however systemd comes out-of-the-box with the systemd-nspawn tool which acts as chroot(1) on steroids: it makes use of file system and PID namespaces to boot a simple lightweight container on a file system tree. It can be used almost like chroot(1), except that the isolation from the host OS is much more complete, a lot more secure and even easier to use. In fact,
16:44 < mawk> systemd-nspawn is capable of booting a complete systemd or sysvinit OS in container with a single command. "
16:44 < oiaohm> mawk: so not quite as bad as calling a full VM a chroot alterantive.
16:44 < Lope> mawk: this worked: `machinectl shell foo /usr/bin/touch /tmp/foo.txt`
16:44 < mawk> yes Lope , this kind of command should work
16:45 < mawk> the hostname is virtualized by the UTS namespace tho, and if shell just chroots you to your container root dir it won't work, but it's weird it doesn't work, it's easy to enter an existing ns
16:45 < Psi-Jack> jml2: Personally, who's been harassing mostly, is you, including with the name-calling. Just from what I've observed today.
16:45 < Lope> mawk: I see one can't get output. i tried running /bin/ls
16:46 < jml2> Psi-Jack, But you're not much smarter I can see.
16:46 < mawk> ah, that's another thing
16:46 < jml2> Psi-Jack, from what I can tell you're just another kid who loves drama.
16:46 < jml2> Psi-Jack, so carry on script kiddles. :)
16:46 < Lope> Running a command like this is like throwing something into a black hole.
16:46 < Lope> It could go anywhere :)
16:46 < mawk> mawk is a moron, Psi-Jack is a script kiddie
16:46 < mawk> this man speaks the truth
16:46 < Psi-Jack> Well then...
16:47 < jml2> and http://whois.domaintools.com is just another fake site too you can count on that too ;-)
16:47 < Lope> I already blocked jml2 about 10 mins ago if that's who you guys are talking to.
16:48 < jml2> I don't mind people ignoring me. I know they're idiots.
16:48 < jml2> and that also includes oiaohm
16:48 < jml2> :)
16:49 < jml2> especially after I posted who is the author of the link I provided.
16:49 < Dominian> Is there a point to this ranting?
16:49 < jml2> you ignore me too oiaohm  :)
16:49 < Dominian> Because I fail to see one
16:49  * jml2 takes a sleep from irc  :)
16:49 < hodapp> Dominian: You know, is there ever a point to ranting? I'm out of cheddar cheese right now. What does anyone expect me to do about that? It's raining outside and I don't feel like walking to my car because I forgot a jacket today and my umbrella is *in* my car. What can I do about that?
16:49 < hodapp> People just don't understand sometimes.
16:49 < jml2> Dominian, they're babies.. I keep getting called out because I mention nspawn is a "chroot alternative" by the author of this tool./
16:50 < Dominian> jml2: wonderful, but I don't see the point of continuing.
16:50 < jml2> Dominian, I didn't.
16:50 < Lope> jml2: don't worry, be happy.
16:50 < jml2> Dominian, I stopped long ago, mawk kept trying again over and over again so that's why I called out ops
16:51 < Psi-Jack> And name-calling?
16:51 < Dominian> There's this thing called /ignore
16:51 < jml2> Dominian, even after posting the whois link there's still ignorance about it. very immature babies here.
16:51 < Dominian> works really well
16:51 < Dominian> But let's get back on topic shall we.
16:51 < Lope> yeah, I'm just observing you guys in amusement
16:51 < hodapp> what do you mean "you people"?
16:51 < Lope> Life's too short to be upset about nothing.
16:51 < hodapp> that's inappropriate.
16:52 < hodapp> life's too long for you to deprive me of my victim cards
16:52 < hodapp> gotta have something I can go stand in line for and fight people over
16:52 < Lope> just smoke a spliff and listen to some reggae, every little thing, is gonna be alright.
16:53 < hodapp> spliffs are illegal here
16:53 < triceratux> we are all victims of systemd. i demand reparations
16:53 < oiaohm> jml2: really just because someone authors a program does not mean they use terms correctly.   You can call a full vm a chroot alternative does not mean that a VM should be called a chroot right.
16:53 < Lope> hodapp: put the weed in jail, and then put god in jail. That will teach him.
16:54 < Lope> damn plant should know better than existing.
16:54 < Psi-Jack> Lope: Ahem...
16:54 < Lope> ok ok. back to work.
16:55 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Thank you.
16:55 < jml2> oiaohm, I don't need to repeat, check the above links and read for yourself. I'm only using terminology used by the author of this tool. and that's that. I still don't appreciate you bothering me more on this and I suggest you listen to Dominian who is I think an op.
16:56 < vlt> Hello. What boot param do I usually need to convince the kernel to `vgchange -ay` so that I don't have to do this in the initramfs shell myself?
16:56 < rypervenche> vlt: It should happen in the initramfs.
16:57 < rypervenche> vlt: Depending on which initramfs you're using, you can pass a kernel option to it to enable LVM support so that it enables all VGs.
16:57 < oiaohm> jml2: but what I am telling is you need to read other sources because not all the terminonly used by the lead of systemd is used correctly.  This was even true when he was doing pulseaudio.
16:57 < vlt> rypervenche: That's basically my question: Which kernel option?
16:57 < Psi-Jack> Nah, Dominian's a ##linux elder. :)
16:57  * Psi-Jack ducks.
16:57 < mawk> oiaohm: the best part is that the blog post he's referring to actually says that systemd-nspawn is a container solution, "More importantly however systemd comes out-of-the-box with the systemd-nspawn tool which acts as chroot(1) on steroids: it makes use of file system and PID namespaces to boot a simple lightweight container on a file system tree."
16:58 < rypervenche> vlt: That depends. Which initramfs are you using? Maybe let's start with which distro you're using and if you're using defaults or not.
16:58 < Psi-Jack> mawk: Exactly. :)
16:58 < rypervenche> Not everyone who writes something knows how all of it works :)
16:59 < vlt> rypervenche: Ah, ok. It's Ubuntu.
16:59 < Psi-Jack> mawk: I noticed that too. Back when Lennart wrote that, I'm betting he didn't really know what all a container was. :)
16:59 < oiaohm> mawk:  "chroot on steroids." is a term set from solaris to describe their containers/zones that was deprecated for the term container.
16:59 < Psi-Jack> oiaohm: Eggsnactly! :)
16:59 < Psi-Jack> oiaohm++ Good knowledge.
16:59 < rypervenche> lvf: Are you looking to put your root file system on LVM? Or is this a new installation? (where LVM will be properly configured)
17:00 < DrunkRhino> Anyone happen to know exactly how I'd go about hiding window borders/decorations in MATE? Steam Native and Vivaldi both use their own chrome, but Steam under wine has both its own window controls and a regular title bar & controls. #mate seems to be pretty quiet.
17:00 < mawk> with dbus installed machinectl shell works, Lope , even /bin/hostname
17:01 < mawk> I see oiaohm
17:01 < snailrazor> aeiou
17:02 < vlt> rypervenche: The root file system is already on LVM. That was a debootstrap install. Everything worls perfectly fine, except for the one `vgchange -ay` command I have to run in initramfs shell before boot continues.
17:02 < oiaohm> jml2: Fr 08 April 2011 was the date of that post.    Its very old.   The term set "chroot on steroids" was declared deprecated in solaris in 2009 just not everyone had got the memo about it until about 2012.
17:02 < jml2> rypervenche, its' vlt , not lvf
17:02 < hodapp> snailrazor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58tRsLu4DY0 ?
17:02 < DLange> DrunkRhino: try "undecorate maximized windows" in systems settings
17:03 < snailrazor> solaris is deprecated
17:04 < fujisan> would you spend 1000 euros on a shirt?
17:04 < snailrazor> probably not
17:04 < snailrazor> because i dont live in the eu
17:04 < fujisan> https://www.versace.com/eu/en/men/clothing/shirts/balletto-print-silk-shirt-a753/A78864-A225112_A753.html?cgid=220300#start=1 not even on this one
17:04 < fujisan> D:
17:04 < DrunkRhino> DLange hmm... I'm not seeing that in the "windows" or "appearance" section.
17:05 < snailrazor> and dont have any euros
17:05 < DrunkRhino> Also, I'd only need it on a per-app basis for stuff like steam that have their own window controls.
17:05 < DLange> 1) https://camo.githubusercontent.com/37b176faf3168f4b61553c7f165d47e1cca5870b/68747470733a2f2f692e737461636b2e696d6775722e636f6d2f6e394a6a682e706e67
17:05 < snailrazor> what if it was a shirt that belonged to john lennon
17:05 < snailrazor> you could easily sell it for more then $1000
17:05 < fujisan>  yeah good question
17:06 < DLange> 2) not possible in MATE, you'd need to script that with - say - devilspie2
17:06 < fujisan> i am looking for software to make my own designs does linux have anything for 3d printing on clothes?
17:06 < snailrazor> what if it was a shirt and wrapped inside of it was a fragment of the true cross
17:06 < snailrazor> that had a verifiable dna sample of jesus's blood on it
17:07 < snailrazor> or what if it was a shirt that had a real candid photo of the pope jerking off on it
17:07 < snailrazor> the vatican would pay billions to keep that under wraps
17:07 < stennowork> whats going on in he- oh lawd
17:08 < DrunkRhino> DLange, ah, that's why, mate-tweak is in the AUR, not the regular repos. And I'll look into that. I have some vague recollection of using that once upon a time, but I'm sure it'll come back to me.
17:08 < fujisan> yeah
17:08 < snailrazor> or what if it was a shirt that had the ability to grant the wearer the ability to fly, turn invisible, and shoot lasers out of their eyes
17:08 < oiaohm> Psi-Jack: having to dig though 10+ year old installation instructions to fix something you have to catch up on old out of date terms.
17:08 < fujisan> i wont buy that shirt too afraid i will ruin it
17:09 < fujisan> it's very pretty though
17:09 < snailrazor> or what if it was a shirt that self replicated into more shirts in varous styles and colors and just by having this one shirt you could open your own shirt store and have an unlimited inventory that you could sell with no overheads
17:09 < Lope> `ls --color=auto -la /` doesn't give me any colors. But `ip -c a` gives me colors. Any ideas?
17:09 < jml2> DrunkRhino, I use to use devilspie2 in order to fix my evince borders for a particular desktop because the borders are too thick for certain gnome apps... it should also work in mate
17:09 < fujisan> snailrazor: good idea
17:09 < mawk> Lope: what's TERM ?
17:09 < mawk> echo $TERM
17:10 < Lope> vt220
17:10 < revel> Lope: What about color=always
17:10 < Lope> no colors
17:10 < Lope> I also tried color=tty
17:10 < snailrazor> or what if it was a shirt that was made of 2000 euros sewn together
17:10 < mawk> are you sure there are colors in the current directory Lope ?
17:10 < mawk> try ls --color=auto -l /
17:11 < mawk> somewhere where there are directories for instance
17:11 < snailrazor> i could keep this going all day if i wanted to
17:11 < snailrazor> but fortunately for you i wont
17:11 < fendur> very creative
17:11 < jml2> DrunkRhino, there's the debug_print(  thingy that helps alot looking at my .lua file here (~/.config/devilspie2)
17:12 < snailrazor> or what if it was a shirt that had the geographic coordinates of the location of jimmy hoffa's body
17:14 < Lope> mawk I killed all aliases to be sure `unalias -a`. Still no colors.
17:14 < mawk> even in / ?
17:14 < Lope> Yep
17:14 < Lope> all grey
17:14 < mawk> that's strange
17:14 < snailrazor> all i can think about now are ideas for shirts that people would pay 1000 euros for
17:14 < Lope> Yeah...
17:14 < mawk> anything in $LS_COLORS ?
17:14 < snailrazor> what is TERM set to
17:15 < snailrazor> also are you sure you aren't using a monochrome monitor
17:15 < mawk> vt220
17:15 < mawk> lol
17:15 < Lope> I've only got LS_OPTIONS=--color=auto
17:15 < mawk> ip -c a produces colors he said
17:15 < snailrazor> vt220 doesnt support colors iirc
17:15 < mawk> so no LS_COLORS
17:15 < mawk> it's usually set by bashrc
17:15 < Lope> snailrazor: oh. lolz
17:15 < mawk> when forcing TERM to vt220 my ls makes colors
17:15 < oiaohm> fujisan: http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-3D-Print-Onto-Fabric/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjH5KGw3Psw  most are normally printing and direct onto shirt.  Basically backing material.
17:15 < Lope> okay can I just set TERM to xterm?
17:15 < snailrazor> try it
17:15 < fujisan> thnx oiaohm
17:16 < oiaohm> fujisan: opps not directly onto shirt.
17:16 < Lope> it worked!!!
17:16 < mawk> some may interject to it Lope , but that's what I do
17:16 < snailrazor> usually when people have problems with colors not working its because of the TERM variable
17:16 < mawk> you can set it to linux otherwise
17:16 < mawk> I set mine to xterm-256color
17:16 < mawk> so that all programs have colors enabled by default, including the default bash prompt
17:16 < Lope> mawk: fancy!
17:16 < jml2> Lope,  find /usr/share/terminfo/
17:16 < fujisan> next question is it legal to buy replica shirts from top designers?
17:17 < jml2> Lope, =linux is standard on plain terminal, xterm in pty terminals under x
17:17 < pepermuntjes> fujisan,  depends which distro u use to purchase them
17:17 < fujisan> i found a russian store that sells replicas -_- the same shirt basically for 1/15 the price
17:18 < snailrazor> xfce-terminal defaults to xterm-256color
17:18 < snailrazor> idk what other terminal apps use
17:18 < fujisan> pepermuntjes:  what do you mean?
17:18 < snailrazor> brb forgot to run tmux
17:18 < fujisan> ofc. it's not the same shirt but a similar design
17:18 < oiaohm> fujisan: its backing material hack around.   Before 3d printing I had used the same fabric for doing up scales using molds.
17:18 < fujisan> i bet the real thing is better quality
17:19 < fujisan> 3d printing will be great for small designers, i just want to invent 21st clothes the default designs are a bit boring
17:19 < oiaohm> fujisan: fine backing material in the same colour of what it on top of unless someone looks really close its 100 percent invisable.
17:21 < fujisan> my mom gave me a replica shirt ones from turkey a lacoste knock off basically and it was good quality too i still have it
17:22 < jml2> snailrazor, cli apps shouldn't change the TERM option while running, it would go against convention
17:22 < snailrazor> well tmux and screen do
17:22 < snailrazor> to let programs know they are running in them
17:22 < snailrazor> i think thats the only exception
17:23 < fujisan> According to UCLA law professor Kal Raustiala and NYU law professor Christopher Sprigman, co-authors of the book, The Knockoff Economy: How Imitation Sparks Innovation, it's probably because fashion is not (and has never been) protected under copyright law — a law put into place to prevent the unauthorized copying of a work of authorship in the U.S.
17:23 < jml2> snailrazor, only times I get problems is when using a terminal/ssh app to remote systems where I sometimes need to change the TERM option to suit the local display of the local terminal app.. rare though
17:23 < jnewt> my computer doesn't resolve another computer's name correctly.  router does.   the name is not in my /etc/hosts file. what else should I check?  both computers are ubuntu 16.04
17:23 < mawk> tmux or screen can do it, they are terminal emulators in their own right snailrazor
17:23 < fujisan> so like fashion copies are legal
17:23 < fujisan> that's interesting
17:23 < mawk> jnewt: the name ends with .local ?
17:23 < mawk> or it has no dots at all ?
17:24 < Lope> Is anyone here registered on bugs.documentfoundation.org if so, please confirm my bug: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117206
17:24 < fujisan> https://www.racked.com/2016/8/18/12428004/fast-fashion-copy-sites-legal-knockoff
17:24 < jnewt> mawk: no dots
17:24 < mawk> ok jnewt, what is the search domain of the router ?
17:24 < mutante> jnewt: /etc/resolv.conf  check if there is a domain ('search' config line). also check that both  "hostname -s" shows a proper short version and "hostname -f" shows a proper "fully qualified" version including the domain
17:24 < mawk> the last part of the FQDN of the router
17:24 < fujisan> interesting topic
17:24 < fujisan> i just want to print my own clothes from now on
17:25 < Lope> It will literally take a few seconds. Just try insert a row into the spreadsheet and you'll see it takes minutes.
17:25 < oiaohm> fujisan: if you have unlimited budget you can look at 3D Knitting.
17:25 < fujisan> or make my clothes edible
17:25 < mawk> for instance if in the /etc/resolv.conf of the router you have domain lan, then if you try to resolve foobar it will search for foobar.lan
17:25 < mawk> and if that thing isn't replicated in the clients, it won't work the same way
17:25 < mawk> you have to tell the DHCP server to broadcast that thing
17:25 < jml2> ^ :/
17:25 < jml2> well I'm off
17:26 < mutante> if you have unlimited budget you can also look into "making clothes for you", it's a service called tailoring
17:26 < oiaohm> mutante: tailoring is cheaper than high grade 3d knitting.
17:26 < oiaohm> mutante: and faster.
17:27 < uplime> is tailoring POSIX? or GNU?
17:27 < mutante> oiaohm: that was my point :)
17:27 < loganrun> does anyone use duplicity? I was trying it with the following command(http://termbin.com/zkcr), however, it seems to do a full backup. also, I don't understand why I am never prompted for a passphrase
17:28 < mawk> jnewt: you understood what I said ? you need to have the same search domain in the client than in the router
17:28 < loganrun> i.e. I did a full backup first before running it with the incremental option, but with the incremental option still seems to do a complete backup or something
17:29 < jnewt> mawk: ok i found the domain name on the router.   when i ping from my desktop, it automatically adds the .mydomain to the computer i'm trying to ping, but then has the wrong IP in ()
17:29 < mawk> the domain is .local jnewt ?
17:30 < jnewt> mawk: no, let's say it's mydomain
17:30 < mawk> so not .local or a suspicious thing like that
17:30 < mawk> good
17:30 < mawk> the domain is in the /etc/hosts file of the router ?
17:30 < mawk> the domain name
17:30 < jnewt> mawk, no, it's something I chose, but am not comfortable sharing on here.
17:30 < jnewt> we'll just assume mydomain if that's ok
17:31 < mawk> yeah as long as it's not .local the normal DNS system applies
17:31 < mawk> yeah
17:31 < mawk> so in /etc/hosts of the router there is the hostname you want to resolve ?
17:31 < jnewt> mawk: i'm just using the gui for the router.   I can ssh into it and check the actual file, one minute
17:32 < mawk> also the dns servers you push via DHCP are the same as the ones set in the router ? in /etc/resolv.conf
17:34 < jnewt> mawk: the router does not contain a search mydomain like my desktop does
17:34 < mawk> it's either search either domain
17:34 < mawk> no domain line either ?
17:34 < jnewt> oh, wait, that is from resolv, one min
17:35 < jnewt> mawk: the router has a TON of entries in the hosts file.  I know I didn't put them there, maybe the router does that?
17:36 < mawk> yes
17:36 < mawk> then you need to keep that in sync with a real dns server
17:37 < mawk> for your trick to work
17:37 < jnewt> mawk: seems it's adding from my guest network as well, some of these are people's names I recognize (like they named their phone with their name in it), but would not give them access to my actual network
17:37 < mawk> maybe it's the case, I don't know how bind or whatever works exactly
17:37 < mawk> yeah it could be the dhcp server doing that
17:37 < mawk> you need to synchronize that list with your DNS server
17:37 < jnewt> my router is the dns server too
17:37 < mawk> yeah
17:37 < mawk> it'll be easier
17:39 < jnewt> are you saying i need to fix something in the router so that this one computer will resolve from my one computer (everything else works btw).
17:39 < mawk> ah it's just from that one computer ? not the whole LAN ?
17:39 < mawk> that's something else
17:39 < brutuz> i need suggestion in a centralized user session recording..
17:39 < mawk> is there a local caching resolver on that computer ? you've got the right parameters in its /etc/resolv.conf
17:39 < mawk> what do you mean by centralized brutuz ?
17:40 < jnewt> i can resolve other computers from my desktop.  but there is one other linux computer on the network and i cannot resolv it
17:40 < mawk> oh ok jnewt
17:40 < jnewt> i can properly resolve all the other computers (freebsd and windows)
17:40 < mawk> then it's maybe some caching issue, or anything else
17:40 < brutuz> mawk: we have freeipa.. now i need to record user sessions command..
17:40 < mawk> this method of resolving has never been extremely reliable in my experience
17:40 < brutuz> mawk: not sure if it made sense..
17:41 < mawk> you'll maybe want to assign static domain names to the dynamic IP with the dhcp server
17:41 < mawk> instead of using the hostname
17:41 < mawk> yes brutuz
17:41 < mawk> good question
17:41 < jnewt> mawk: i'd rather not, then i have to do it every time we get a new computer right?
17:41 < mawk> let me think for a second if you can bypass such a system
17:41 < mawk> if you have external access to the network you can totally bypass it
17:42 < mawk> yes jnewt
17:42 < mawk> jnewt: try to resolve hostname-1 instead of hostname, to see if it works
17:42 < mawk> dunno about the real duplicating scheme
17:42 < jnewt> mawk: unknown host from both router and my desktop
17:43 < mawk> I see
17:43 < jnewt> but just ping hostname works from router, but not desktop
17:43 < mawk> try to clear the dns server cache from the router maybe
17:43 < mawk> is there a local caching resolver on your machines ?
17:43 < jnewt> mawk: no idea.  is that default for an ubuntu install?
17:43 < mawk> in the recent ones I guess yeah
17:43 < mawk> either dnsmasq or systemd-resolved
17:43 < mawk> or something in that vein
17:43 < mawk> you could try to clear the cache
17:44 < mawk> is there something like 127.0.0.53 or 127.0.0.1 in /etc/resolv.conf ?
17:44  * triceratux is wary of any 127.0.0.53 appearing anywhere in the mix
17:44 < mawk> lol
17:45 < jnewt> mawk, only two lines in my desktop's resolve.conf  nameserver 127.0.1.1 and search mydomain
17:46 < mawk> ok so there's a local caching resolver
17:46 < mawk> maybe networkmanager or dnsmasq, or even unbound
17:46 < jnewt> should i set that nameserver to the router's ip?
17:46 < mawk> lsof -i:53 should tell you
17:46 < mawk> no, it's done under the hood already
17:47 < mawk> unless they are desktop computers, then you could disable that caching thing
17:47 < triceratux> 127.0.1.1 is standard 16.04. should be ok
17:47 < mawk> as there is already a caching resolver on your LAN
17:50 < mawk> overlayfs has no support for moving files ? when I move a file, instead the old file is deleted and a new file is created, with the trusted.overlay.origin extended attribute
17:50 < mawk> no mention of the old path
17:50 < jnewt> mawk: probably local on my desktop since the router works fine
17:51 < mawk> yes jnewt that's what I meant
17:51 < mawk> 127.0.0.0/8 is loopback
17:51 < mawk> it's linked to yourself
17:53 < DrunkRhino> Anyone happen to have any ideas on why widevine (seemingly only Netflix actually), seems to intermittently cause the cursor not to display?
17:56 < jnewt> mawk: i can't seem to figure out how to clear the cache.   searching gives me /etc/init.d/dns-clean (command not found) or same with restart parameter.
17:56 < jim> DrunkRhino, I haven't been through that particular trouble... you say it only happens with netflix?
17:57 < mawk> jnewt: what's in lsof -i:53 in the computer ?
17:57 < mawk> which application ?
18:00 < jnewt> mawk: one line in the table: code    2960 jnewt  35u  IPv4 1078492      0t0  UDP localhost:39574->jdesktop:domain
18:00 < jnewt> an ipconfig /flushdns linux equivalent would be really useful here
18:01 < pwn> I  have an executable program that runs... how can i identify all the privelged system calls it makes?
18:02 < hodapp> at a first guess: strace it?
18:02 < pwn> for instance, i know it calls stime to set the hardward clock
18:02 < pwn> hodapp: yes i consider strace.. but how do i know which calls required uid 0, and which are just normal?
18:03 < pwn> or which calls require special privleges
18:04 < mawk> just one line jnewt ?
18:04 < mawk> are you sure ?
18:04 < pwn> what?
18:04 < jnewt> mawk: there's a headings line, but that's the only data
18:05 < mawk> so no LISTEN line
18:05 < jnewt> no other lines mawk
18:05 < mawk> and in nestat -4l do you see something about port 53 ?
18:05 < mawk> or dns
18:06 < hodapp> huh, yeah, I'm not sure how to get that information out of a system call
18:07 < jnewt> theres a udp 0 0 *:mdns *:*  that's the closest
18:07 < hodapp> would think that it's not necessarily something the system even exposes directly beyond "try it and see"
18:08 < hodapp> since it depends so much on every piece of the environment
18:13 < mawk> no jnewt , I need dns not mdns
18:13 < mawk> you're doing this in the affected computer right ?
18:14 < mawk> pwn: you check them one by one
18:14 < mawk> categorize all the calls, then do a little research
18:15 < jnewt> mawk: i'm doing this on the computer which cannot ping / resolve the other linux computer but can resolve other windows computers
18:16 < mawk> yeah, good
18:16 < mawk> so you can't find who's on that 127.0.1.1:53 port ? that's strange
18:16 < DrunkRhino> jim, whoops, just saw your message, it seems to just be primarily Netflix, though I also remember it happening with either YouTube TV or Hulu. Can't remember which it was.
18:17 < mawk> could you show output of lsof -i and netstat -4l jnewt ? just to be sure
18:17 < tunekey> in my .bash_profile: https://0bin.net/paste/zzhrsQpEc2ADSVXP#NQuAvzN65fhjNiF4-2oBWlijQ+O3ru/yT3m5An7ibRk
18:17 < tunekey> is there anything wrong here? send help
18:22 < jnewt> mawk: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/G2b44N8Fx4/
18:23 < Jackneill> hey
18:24 < Jackneill> i created an fstab entry for /dev/sde1, with errors=remount-rw. but in mtab i cant see that option, any idea?
18:24 < mawk> do it with sudo jnewt
18:26 < DrunkRhino> On a completely different note, anyone know of any way to set htop to display with only the /sbin/init tree expanded? Or just to collapse all trees at once rather than scrolling through line by line?
18:27 < mawk> what do you mean by only the /sbin/init tree DrunkRhino ?
18:27 < mawk> every process is a child of /sbin/init
18:27 < mawk> or child of a child, etc
18:27 < DrunkRhino> mawk, I mean only direct children
18:27 < mawk> oh ok
18:28 < QOOQQOOQQO> DrunkRhino: +/- key is all i know
18:28 < no_gravity> I'm trying to split gnu screen vertically. So far to no avail. How do you guys do it?
18:28 < DrunkRhino> Wine spawns a LOT of processes and I also use Tilda so it'd be nice for it to default to just direct children for an "overview"
18:29 < DrunkRhino> As does Vivaldi
18:32 < no_gravity> Ha, it worked!
18:32 < no_gravity> Magic!
18:32 < no_gravity> Now I will try to split screen inside of screen...
18:32 < jnewt> mawk: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/7FZS84SXzr/
18:32 < no_gravity> Now how do I know if I split the inner screen or the outer screen?
18:33 < no_gravity> (I hope I did not split both)
18:34 < mawk> ok jnewt it's dnsmasq
18:34 < mawk> so you need to clear dnsmasq cache
18:34 < mawk> look up how to do that
18:40 < jnewt> mawk: restarted dnsmasq (that's how someone said to clear the cache).   works perfectly now.
18:40 < mawk> nice
18:40 < mawk> perfect then !
18:41  * triceratux will be unable to avoid dnsmasq for long
18:41 < Celmor> anyone here familiar with rdesktop and can help? getting strange errors when trying to connect to a windows machine
18:41 < Celmor> https://ptpb.pw/zrzP
18:54 < Aljone> hey guys how do i copy all files .jpg from all subfolders into 1 folder
18:55 < revel> Using wildcard characters.
18:55 < hexnewbie> Celmor: Sounds like the rdesktop server expects AD/windows domain security. Also, password shouldn't normally be entered on the commandline (cause it's insecure).
18:55 < Aljone> revel: what is the command
18:55 < Jackneill> i created an fstab entry for /dev/sde1, with errors=remount-rw. but in mtab i cant see that option, any idea?
18:55 < loganrun> Aljone: find should be able to do it I think
18:56 < revel> cp */*.jpg somefolder should do it, I guess.
18:56 < Aljone> letme see
18:56 < Jackneill> what is a good sdcard tester?
18:56 < Jackneill> for reading errors?
18:57 < revel> If it's spread out less favourably, then use find.
18:57 < Aljone> cp */*.jpg not working
18:57 < hexnewbie> Celmor: SOlutions on the internet suggest using freerdp as a client instead (as configuring Kerberos is difficult)
18:57 < garlicbutter> How are locks cleaned up when a process quits unexpectedly?
18:57 < Aljone> cp: cannot stat */*.jpg: No such file or directory
18:58 < garlicbutter> Is there some mechanism built into the kernel which traces locks
18:58 < Celmor> hexnewbie, thanks but I don't get why rdesktop suddenly won't work
18:58  * APic giggles, magically.
18:58 < ayecee> find /source -type f -name '*.jpg' -exec cp -t /destination {} +
18:58 < APic> hi Maxel_
18:58 < hexnewbie> Celmor: The Windows computer got updated?
18:58 < Aljone> why the + at the end?
18:58 < garlicbutter> Am i in the right channel?
18:59 < Celmor> possibly RS1 to RS2 or something like that
18:59 < ayecee> so that you can read the manpage about it
18:59 < fendur> hexnewbie: I've had this issue. I had to switch clients.
18:59 < fendur> hexnewbie: I guess I can't say it's the same issue, but it sounds like it.
18:59 < ayecee> it's an option to -exec
18:59 < loganrun> Aljone: try something like find . -name '*jpg' -exec mv -t path_B {} +
18:59 < QOOQQOOQQO> garlicbutter: "file locks" ?
18:59 < QOOQQOOQQO> "lock files"
18:59 < loganrun> oops guess ayecee got it
18:59 < garlicbutter> Any locks in general
19:00 < garlicbutter> mutex lock spin lock whatever locks
19:00 < QOOQQOOQQO> you need to be specific
19:00 < Aljone> im trying
19:00 < Li> does anyone know that linux command line has a command called command?
19:00 < revel> Yes.
19:00 < Celmor> either read a book on the topic or articles on the net, there's enough information out there on locks
19:00 < garlicbutter> Umm I guess file locks work here as well
19:01 < Aljone> seems like it was working TY !
19:01 < garlicbutter> I was just curious as to how locks grabbed by a process are all released even when it quits unexpectedly
19:01 < revel> li: Did you know that there's an utility called file? And, don't just shit your pants right now, but the binary is also a file :o
19:01 < fendur> hexnewbie: I think I directed that to the wrong person
19:02 < QOOQQOOQQO> a lock obtained using flock system call described by flock(2) manual?
19:03 < garlicbutter> Ah i guess my question depends on what lock im talking about
19:03 < garlicbutter> Yeah flock
19:03 < kristina> I wonder when Linux on a desktop will be an actual non-niche thing, I currently use Linux a lot but as my "thin terminal" I still, funnily enough, use Windows or OSX.
19:03 < Celmor> fendur, you mean RDP client?
19:04 < fendur> Celmor: yes.
19:04 < Celmor> which did you switch to?
19:04 < autopsy> kristina, a thin client boots off of PXE and has no hard drive.
19:04 < fendur> Celmor: freerdp. It dropped in pretty smoothly.
19:04 < Celmor> meh, it outputs a ton, hate tools that pretty much output their whole man-page on a syntax error
19:05 < fendur> Celmor: for that reason you won't use it?!
19:05 < Celmor> nope, for the reason that I can't connect
19:05 < Celmor> and other unexpected issues
19:06 < Celmor> e.g. https://ptpb.pw/pA0b
19:06 < Celmor> finally, got it work
19:06 < kristina> It was in quotes for a reason, I run Chromium, VLC, a text editor, Pidgin and a terminal emulator on Windows, that's about it. And IDA I guess.
19:07 < Celmor> had to press Y instead of T when it asked me about the certificate
19:07 < Lope> How can I specify the output file with xz? `xz -k --best test/ /tmp/foo.xz`
19:07 < Celmor> you redirect output to it?
19:08 < Lope> I've seen the redirect syntax. Looks ghetto.
19:08 < Lope> Can't I just specify an output file?
19:09 < Celmor> do you need to use xz?
19:09 < ayecee> let me check the manpage for you
19:09 < Celmor> 7zip can use the same algorithm and format (xz) and has way more options
19:09 < Celmor> like which output file to use
19:09 < Lope> Looks like "Unless --stdout is specified, files other than - are written to a new file whose name is derived from the source file name"
19:09 < Lope> is the answer.
19:10 < Lope> yeah, but 7z is messy. it doesn't support permissions and ownership etc.
19:10 < Lope> So you have to put a tar inside it. Also ghetto.
19:10 < Lope> pigz looks like the only decent option, multi threaded and so on. But it's only gzip, which doesn't compress at a high ratio.
19:11 < Celmor> then just use 7z in combination with tar and create a .tar.xz
19:11 < Celmor> which you can decompress using `tar -xJ` if you want
19:12 < Celmor> 7z is from my tests just way more efficient
19:12 < kristina> What I hate about Linux is fragmentation, a lot of people call it choice but like, I develop a lot of software that runs lowerish level on Linux and having to constantly look through glibc sources drives me mad. And I wish they'd cleaned up the source tree and culled the arches no one uses, and for extremely embedded applications it's likely you wouldn't even use glibc or even linux.
19:12 < kristina> Then there's Musl which is not compatible.
19:13 < QOOQQOOQQO> you can delete unused directories yourself
19:13 < Lope> kristina: some people call it fragmentation, other people call it freedom and choice.
19:13 < autopsy> kristina, There are a lot of spin-off distros I've noticed.
19:14 < Celmor> Lope, this is how I use 7z in my backup script https://github.com/Celmor/sh/blob/master/package.sh#L115
19:14 < Lope> kristina: oh, regarding arches nobody uses, yes, that has always baffled me.
19:14 < revel> A bunch of architectures got removed in 4.16, actually.
19:15 < Lope> I can't see any point in a modern distro supporting anything outside of x86_64 and armv7+
19:16 < revel> Most don't.
19:16 < QOOQQOOQQO> get your head out of desktop use case
19:16 < ayecee> Lope: well, have you tried?
19:16 < ayecee> because it doesn't seem like you've tried.
19:16 < revel> If you don't like Debian or Gentoo, then finding a PPC distro may be difficult.
19:17 < kristina> Yes but the fact that I have to ship libc++, libc++abi, libunwind, a glibc fork, a linker, libsystemd stuff my application requires etc, just so I get things working consistently without hoping they have this version of that and this version of this and the fact that glibc is insane in some ways which can only be fixed with patches (NPTL and the insanity of having to make a syscall as the official way of
19:17 < kristina> getting something already available in struct pthread, the TID).
19:19 < kristina> Also the nesting depth of some directories in glibc and the fact that tst-* files are in the same dir as the implementation as well as the fact that, uh, it's just like one of the worst codebases to work with ever.
19:19 < kristina> They're culling some obsolete stuff from kernel, yeah, that doesn't mean glibc.
19:20 < ayecee> off the soapbox, buddy
19:20 < user03> &j #freebsd
19:20 < revel> No thanks.
19:20 < Psi-Jack> PPC? People still use that?
19:21 < kristina> PPC is fine.
19:21 < revel> Exactly. That's my point.
19:21 < kristina> I meant more obscure stuff.
19:22 < lordvadr> kristina: You're using threads wrong.
19:22 < pepermuntjes> free hugs @ #freebsd
19:22 < pepermuntjes> owh wait
19:22 < pepermuntjes> their TOS literally forbids digital hugs
19:23 < snailrazor> https://i.imgur.com/434eogI.jpg
19:23 < snailrazor> stepping up my tuna sandwich game
19:23 < pepermuntjes> why no mayo?
19:23 < hexnewbie> 90% of the planet are using threads wrong.
19:23 < snailrazor> theres mayo
19:23 < snailrazor> you just cant see it
19:23 < QOOQQOOQQO> it's a "Cee Oh Cee" not TOS but yeah, haha no hugs allowed
19:24 < snailrazor> theres japanese mayo, and a dash of oyster sauce and sriracha
19:24 < snailrazor> i would have used spinach but im out so i used boring lettuce
19:24 < triceratux> my whole problem with gnu/linux/x11 is if it aint broke dont fix it. & my nameserver has never been broke (until extonos 18.4) so why should i mess with something like dnsmasq ? gnome is broke, kde is broke, gui fms are broke, so i can understand configuring xfce & mc. but the rest of linux isnt broke
19:25 < snailrazor> triceratux: most people writing stuff for linux arent interested in contributing to a consistent and cohesive operating system
19:25 < kristina> lordvadr: I'm not using threads wrong, how is it wrong. I'm writing software that targets Linux, pthreads are a nice abstraction sure and they're a standard, but I'm targetting Linux specifically, making a redundant syscall to information that's already available is insane.
19:25 < snailrazor> they are interested in having fun and doing new weird experimental things
19:25 < kristina> clone returns the tid, it's there.
19:25 < snailrazor> and then forcing them on the userbase like arrogant children
19:26 < snailrazor> i wonder if i should throw out my romaine lettuce
19:27 < snailrazor> apparently some mud people shit on it and now everyones getting e.coli
19:29 < kristina> snailrazor: What do you mean consistent? I mean I support systemd and RedHat's efforts with all my heart, I wish bus1 got submitted for mainline because it's 2018 and mainline Linux still has shit IPC compared to virtually everything else, which is kind of like the heart of the system at least for userspace.
19:29 < sudo_halt> We need more mainlining
19:29 < snailrazor> like the gnome devs decide to completely change everything up, break every theme and extension with each new release
19:29 < snailrazor> because they dont care about the end user
19:30 < snailrazor> its just self-indulgent code masturbation
19:30 < sudo_halt> Tell that to me, the VPN option in GNOME quick menu had issues with icons and now its gone
19:30 < snailrazor> and most linux projects are liek that
19:30 < snailrazor> the reason xfce is good is because development on it is pretty much dead
19:30 < snailrazor> so you dont have to worry about that
19:31 < hexnewbie> kristina: What does bus1 offer that can't be done with UNIX sockets, shared memory, and/or user-space libraries like dbus?
19:31 < kristina> IPC on server systems is fine but for desktop what Linux is unbelievably bad, even with dbus-broker, you still need kernel support for certain features without a broker and race conditions.
19:31 < sudo_halt> snailrazor, hold it right THERE, xfce development is very alive
19:31 < QOOQQOOQQO> here we go again
19:31 < sudo_halt> They just dont update stable branch very often
19:33 < lordvadr> kristina: The pthreads specification hides the tid intentionally as threads need not have a tid. They have one on linux, but they're not required to.
19:33 < Casper> Hi there, small kernel issue: the kernel say: "nr_cpus/possible_cpus limit of 8 reached. Processor ignored" ... but NR_CPUS=32 in the config... anyone have an idea of what else is missing?
19:33 < lordvadr> Outside of debugging, there's no reason to know the tid.
19:33 < kristina> Well the fact that a process cannot be uniformly represented as a handle (fd) instead of a PID across all Linux syscalls that take it, is, well, annoying. Codesigning for ELF got rejected several times, multiarch ELF rejected.
19:34 < sudo_halt> Anybody else having Fedora generate "kernel is tainted" a lot?
19:34 < snailrazor> sudo_halt: i hear xfce 4.14 will be out in 2098
19:34 < kristina> lordvadr: System calls that take it and that are not in your vendor provided libc so you either ship your own or get the TID.
19:34 < snailrazor> i cant wait
19:34 < sudo_halt> snailrazor, Nah, no less than 2048
19:34 < sudo_halt> snailrazor, But really unstable is on 4.13 series for now
19:35 < lordvadr> kristina: Which system calls are you referring to? The ones that manage thread groups?
19:35 < snailrazor> xfce 5 will come out at some point after the total heat death of the universe
19:36 < sudo_halt> Probably around the same time comp.linux shuts down
19:36 < kristina> sched_setattr is nowhere to be found in glibc that's shipped with Xenial despite kernel support.
19:36 < snailrazor> and thats only if its not delayed
19:37 < sudo_halt> Its probably going to get a delay anyways
19:37 < pepermuntjes> QOOQQOOQQO, i don't get how people contribute to a project like that, that has such an crazy code of conduct
19:37 < Casper> sudo_halt: kernel will be tainted if you load the nvidia driver
19:38 < sudo_halt> Well, there are two problems with that
19:38 < sudo_halt> 1-Im on MESA
19:38 < sudo_halt> 2-I have AMD
19:38 < Casper> and I'm also assuming that it will be if you load some broadcom nic/wifi
19:39 < sudo_halt> aaaah, so thats what
19:39 < Casper> well, I beleive that if you have the official amd provided driver it would also taint the kernel...
19:39 < sudo_halt> Yeah, looks like it
19:39 < Casper> tainting is when you have non-opensource code loaded... the broadcom come with a binary blob
19:40 < sudo_halt> XFCE 4.13 is on 4.13.2 BTW
19:40 < hexnewbie> a gazillion things taint the kernel : message will be helpful
19:40 < sudo_halt> But XFCE 4.12 is Stable LTS
19:40 < kristina> Tainting is a lot more than that, it's when the kernel has been modified/livepatches/w/e else. It's so kernel devs don't have to listen to people bitching about panics from people who have proprietary drivers loaded.
19:41 < kristina> The atmosphere is hostile as hell, still no stable kernel driver API, in fact as long as Linus is in charge it will never happen and it'll hold Linux on desktops back for god knows how long.
19:42 < Casper> brb
19:42 < sudo_halt> You know, what if there be a 'standard refrence distro' of linux, where you can get as the baseline of a Full OS development as an 'option'?
19:42 < kristina> Well that's what RH is sort of trying to do.
19:43 < kristina> With heavy resistance.
19:43 < QOOQQOOQQO> those guys are loony
19:43 < triceratux> its what canonical sort of succeeded at doing
19:44 < prussian> you mean... like LSB?
19:44 < sudo_halt> Yeah
19:44 < kristina> Yes because I'll paraphrase Linus' words that involved "sucking", Canonical is willing to work with vendors.
19:45 < sudo_halt> Mr.Torvalds for you
19:45 < kristina> Instead of constantly fighting them and making everyone's life worse.
19:45 < prussian> uh, ok
19:46 < triceratux> users think linux is a distro but linus & by extension the linux foundation dont care about distros. its up to the linux foundation to come up with a standard reference distro. that would potentially go a long way
19:46 < Lope> ayecee: (from the 7z manual) "Backup and limitations\n DO NOT USE the 7-zip format for backup purpose on Linux/Unix because : ..."
19:46 < ayecee> Lope: intended for someone else?
19:46 < Lope> <ayecee> Lope: well, have you tried?\
19:47 < ayecee> was not in reference to 7z
19:47 < prussian> triceratux: they already did, LSB
19:47 < ayecee> it was to the thing you said immediately before that
19:47 < kristina> Linus' decisions regarding the fact that he explicitly never wants a stable kernel driver API and not purely out of design reasons, in this own words, is extremely harmful to pretty much everyone using Linux on a desktop.
19:47 < sudo_halt> Well his mindset is not the best
19:48 < triceratux> prussian: thats more like a subset of halfimplemented standards. they need something more like trisquel. an actual liveiso
19:48 < Lope> ayecee: "I can't see any point in a modern distro supporting anything outside of x86_64 and armv7+"
19:48 < ayecee> yes
19:48 < Lope> ayecee: have I tried what?
19:48 < prussian> wut? only real kernel api breakage i've experienced recently was the whole vsyscall thing
19:48 < ayecee> tried to see a point
19:48 < sudo_halt> Well his mindset is shit... i need to revise me words
19:48 < kristina> PPC and MIPS are fine too, and IA.
19:48 < ayecee> mind the language please
19:48 < Lope> hmm, not particularly hard.
19:49 < Lope> ayecee: 99% of CPUs that get used in real life these days afaik are x86_64 and armv7+
19:49 < Lope> So why make everything harder to maintain by supporting some weird marginal CPUs
19:49 < ayecee> because 1% of a large number is still a large number
19:50 < Lope> i386 is dead, and the other stuff is weird and obscure.
19:50 < sudo_halt> You see, when you make a new CPU for any purpose, lets say super-embedded
19:50 < sudo_halt> Like 99.9% of the market
19:50 < Lope> Well they can stay on old software until they need a new CPU
19:50 < kristina> NoMMU Linux is kinda absurd, most of the use cases are for things where an RTOS belongs, not Linux.
19:50 < sudo_halt> you NEED to have linux running to show its usable.
19:50 < sudo_halt> Its a great test and marketing material.
19:50 < sudo_halt> People seems to think of linux as Desktop/Server only in that matter,
19:51 < kristina> PPC support is important I think, so is any ARM with VMSA.
19:51 < kristina> PPC is still used a lot.
19:52 < kristina> Not a fan of the whole BE thing but w/e.
19:52 < sudo_halt> Pentium II is still used in embedded a lot too
19:52 < sudo_halt> You can get really low power Pents for embedded
19:52 < lukey_> kristina: IMHO they should switch to Hybrid-Kernel like Windows . i.e. make an Kernel Module which presents an stable API to user-space
19:52 < sudo_halt> Not on Mr.Torvald's watch m8
19:52 < prussian> kernel api1 *is* stable
19:53 < prussian> exactly what has borken for you in the latest releases?
19:53 < Lope> For example the new lib6 has dropped kernel 2.x support. Which I think is a great pity, because it means you can't use Debian Stretch on OpenVZ and also for example I run debian Jesse in a chroot on my Android phone with a 3.0 kernel. It also can't run debian stretch. Which is a pity. But I don't hold it against them. These use cases are small and OpenVZ has been dying for a long time. And samsung are assholes for not releasing source for
19:53 < Lope> their hardware drivers so that a modern kernel can be compiled for their phones. So I don't object against progress and dropping support for old 1% shit.
19:53 < kristina> Oh god I would fall in love with Linux if something like L4/Linux hybrid was the mainline version of Linux.
19:53 < Lope> So just like I have to get over the fact that I can't run new linux on my android phone, or on OpenVZ. People should get over their weird <1% CPU's not running new linux.
19:54 < Lope> If it means we can get 10x faster improvement in the 99% use case, which is likely to be true.
19:54 < sudo_halt> Again, they aren <1%, they are in embedded
19:54 < sudo_halt> and that market is.. well... big
19:54 < sudo_halt> Now some CPUs in LK arent embedded, they are leftovers
19:55 < Lope> For example Linus Torvalds said the kernel is very scary. It's got massive amounts of code. Can probably be simplified if support for old crap is dropped. It makes things faster, more lightweight, more capable and more secure in the long run.
19:55 < kristina> sudo_halt: most of real embedded embedded stuff runs VxWorks or ThreadX, not some amalgamation like nommu linux.
19:56 < Lope> sudo_halt: well, if you buy any appliance router, chances are it's running old shitty linux anyway, like a 2.2 kernel or some shit, with outdated everything and completely insecure.
19:56 < sudo_halt> You know, i admit some old stuff need to go
19:56 < lukey_> Lope: You can simply deactivate these drivers to get that
19:56 < Lope> So even though appliance vendors have the ability to put new linux on their stuff, they don't cos they're lazy as shit.
19:56 < Lope> So why should we bother.
19:56 < sudo_halt> BTW maybe make Linux 5 with backward compat breaking changes by deleting old useless stuff, and tell them to got use 4X when they need them
19:57 < Lope> If support is dropped it means chip vendors will stop pumping out old embedded crap, and start making more armv7 (and better) chips
19:57 < sudo_halt> Which again, Mr.Torvalds.
19:57 < Lope> It's not like armv7 is expensive.
19:57 < Lope> There are armv7 chips for a few dollars a piece.
19:57 < sudo_halt> Raspi runs on arm
19:57 < Lope> So it's a nonsensical argument imo.
19:58 < sudo_halt> And thats a PC at 35 bucks
19:58 < Lope> RbPi 2 runs armv7
19:58 < Lope> I said chips.
19:58 < Lope> You're talking about a finished product with profit added to it.
19:58 < sudo_halt> Yeah, well if raspi gets a full SoC and manages to be 35 bucks
19:58 < QOOQQOOQQO> armv7 is too sluggish to take seriously
19:58 < sudo_halt> Then we gotta say the chip is REAL cheap
19:59 < lukey_> Lope: I don't think that this stuff is holding linux back. There are extra maintainers for this stuff that care about it,
19:59 < Lope> sudo_halt: fact is, there are armv7 chips for a few dollars.
19:59 < hodapp> uhh, that pretty much *is* a full SoC
19:59 < Lope> The cost of RbPi doesn't disprove that fact.
19:59 < Lope> Chip is $9
20:00 < sudo_halt> thats my point tbh, i made that exact point
20:00 < lukey_> Lope: and they are bankrupt
20:00 < kristina> I think all of VMSA ARMs, x86_64 (Intel and AMD flavors), x86, PPC belong on Linux.  Also RPi2 runs badly integrated Cortex-A15 which is ARMv7 with extensions. RPi3 runs an even worse integrated Cortex-A53.
20:00 < hodapp> who is bankrupt?
20:00 < bytefire> hi, is it possible get an application to generate coredump whenever it gets SIGKILL?
20:00 < snugger> Why is Slackware so damn impossible to break?
20:01 < lukey_> hodapp: the next thing
20:01 < sudo_halt> ehem
20:01 < sudo_halt> sudo rm -rf /* isnt hard
20:01 < sudo_halt> Yet i guess that wasnt your point
20:01 < hodapp> lukey_: what next thing?
20:01 < lukey_> hodapp: the creators of Chip
20:01 < sauvin> sudo_halt, don't do that.
20:01 < hodapp> oh, the CHIP board?
20:01 < sudo_halt> sauvin, ikr
20:02 < lukey_> hodapp: Yep
20:02 < kristina> Also RPi has ARM as a third class citizen.
20:02 < sauvin> No. I mean, don't paste destructive code in the channel.
20:02 < Lope> If you want cheap, you can't complain that the RbPi doesn't perform like an i7/
20:02 < hodapp> oh, I saw "Chip is $9" above and thought it meant the Broadcom chip
20:02 < kristina> I wrote a firmware for it you can trust me when I say that.
20:02 < sudo_halt> sauvin, oh riiiight
20:02 < Lope> It's not like the other weird architectures are better price/performance. If that were the case we would have already seen linux SBC's made with them by now.
20:02 < kristina> That SoC is an amalgamation, truly.
20:03 < Lope> So your issue doesn't challenge what I'm saying that weird architecture support should be dropped. (anything not x86_64 and ARMv7+)
20:03 < sudo_halt> Raspi focuses on low cost at any cost, what did you expect, a full first-class Broadcom chip?
20:03 < twainwek> bytefire: you can't catch sigkill from the application being killed
20:04 < sudo_halt> Well, you see, you can propose a patch to kernel and see what happens
20:04 < kristina> BCM2708 (BCM2709 technically, since they had to change the VC4 stepping for more nasty hacks) with a poorly integrated and hacked in ARM IP.
20:06 < debkad> Hello, Th
20:07  * debkad lost his question ..
20:07 < sudo_halt> what question
20:08 < debkad> I lost it
20:08 < bytefire> sudo_halt: it's actually worse. i'll have to propose a patch to posix standard guys
20:08 < sudo_halt> You can try
20:08 < kristina> BCM2708 actually was okay in terms of ARMv6, it was fully integrated, but then they decided to do RPi2 with ARMv7 which turned out to be annoying and thus BCM2709 was born which is the "ah fuck it, most of it works, ship it", which is what newer post RPi1s run.
20:08 < sudo_halt> you can...... try.....
20:09 < debkad> It was about sound but I don't remember it
20:09 < bytefire> twainwek: how about attaching a debugger? using ptrace...
20:09 < sudo_halt> At some point you start to make your own OS tho,
20:13 < debkad> Ah got it, my question was about a script that play an audio stream ( mp3 to be exact ), the script work fine, I made a crontab to make it happen in some periode of times, and that also work perfect but ...
20:13 < kristina> I would have liked Musc aside from the fact that they explitly treat Linux as a second class citizen, hiding away functionality because it's not POSIX. And at this point it seems like we need liblinux that implements support for Linux specific non-portable functionality, provides the syscall stubs, signal return handlers etc and libc on top of that which can then do all those pretty POSIX or GNU or
20:13 < kristina> whatever abstractions.
20:13 < kristina> Musl*
20:14 < debkad> when i play something and it happen to be the crontab to call that script got no sound, and when diging around, i found that the the device was busy ( something about sound card and related to alsa )
20:16 < kristina> ie. for Darwin builds we generate libsystem_kernel.dylib and libsystem_kernel.a as part of the kernel build which contains exactly that, syscall stubs, basic things like signal return trampoline, Mach initialization etc.
20:18 < debkad> sudo_halt: you hear me? ^^
20:19 < revel> debkad: Do you have SELinux? Since that definitely stopped that from working for me (with mpv). With SELinux disabled, it worked.
20:20 < phogg> kristina: I would love a liblinux like that. Makes sense.
20:20 < debkad> hmm
20:20 < sudo_halt> ok back
20:20 < sudo_halt> Got DC'd
20:20 < debkad> revel: didn't understand what you mean
20:21 < revel> debkad: What distro are you on?
20:21 < debkad> revel: ubuntu ( xfce and lde as desktop ) right now
20:21 < debkad> you can say xubuntu
20:22 < sudo_halt> Maybe its ubuntu with apt-get install
20:22 < revel> Then my guess is probably way off.
20:22 < debkad> :(
20:23 < revel> Would've expected Debian with that nick :D
20:24 < debkad> haha :p
20:24 < debkad> revel: you were correct, this nick was for debian
20:25 < debkad> It just happen that my hdd is died and happen that debian was there :(
20:26 < revel> Heh. I also have a dead hard drive with Debian on it.
20:26 < solidfox> that's why I keep all my files in memory
20:26  * debkad is too lazy to start again to wipe some space from the other hdd
20:26 < debkad> ah
20:27 < kristina> Also a lot of people like prasing the UNIX philosophy for very little apparent reason, it seems that on a modern desktop is has really really not aged well.
20:27 < revel> Though that was from an ancient hard drive from an used computer we got in 2001 that was then in active use for at least 6 years for us and then gathered dust for another 8 years...
20:27 < debkad> pretty same situation
20:27 < revel> kristina: What do you develop anyway?
20:29 < no_gravity> When updating from Debian 8 to Debian 9, what should I do with the jessie-backports line in sources.list? I assume I should delete it. But I'm not sure.
20:29 < debkad> or may be I must ask on how to make a virtual device that not cause a busy situation for the sound monster, it seem on my opinion that it is possible from pulseaudio or alsa
20:30 < kristina> I've done a lot of Darwin kernel development, drivers, low level userland, I've also done highly concurrent serverside things in C++ on Linux (*sigh*), I've done Linux driver development, worked on some TI driver fixes for OMAP5, did a Mach IPC on Linux kinda thing for fun at one point. Also wrote the open source RPi firmware.
20:30  * debkad brb
20:30 < peetaur> no_gravity: remove it...update... then look for orphans or whatever they call them, then decide whether to uninstall those or add whatever repo gives you updates for those
20:31 < no_gravity> peetaur: Ok, I will remove it. Thanks!
20:31 < peetaur> probably assume it is completely obsoleted by the actual jessie
20:31 < peetaur> but not a guarantee
20:31 < kristina> I also worked on some obscure LLVM backends.
20:32 < peetaur> what I meant was general... for any release upgrade, you remove all non-standard repos during the upgrade
20:34 < no_gravity> Upgrade is running ... I give it a 50% chance of survival :)
20:34 < snugger> Do any of you not program but still use tiling wm's?
20:35 < sudo_halt> Not me, for one
20:35 < kristina> my area of expertise is stuff from firmware to low-level userland (the kernel-user boundary, so low level userland libs and kernel interfaces for userland). i'm probably more proficient in arm (incl aarch64) than any other architecture.
20:35 < revel> There's definitely people like that out there.
20:35 < synaps3> hello, what distro do you people recommend to run from usb, i wanna have persistent data on it, so when package is installed it stays on
20:36 < sudo_halt> TAILS
20:36 < revel> It's persistent?
20:36 < sudo_halt> You can configure a protected storage area on it
20:36 < sudo_halt> yet its for privacy fanatics (i.e. me) and uses TOR relays for all things
20:36 < sudo_halt> Still, a great distro
20:36 < pepermuntjes> synaps3, fedora?
20:37 < no_gravity> Hmm... A new version of /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades is available. Keep or not. How do I know?
20:37 < sudo_halt> My advice is you distro upsync to latest version of that config file
20:37 < synaps3> hmmm, well idk how tails is good to do progamming on, its more privacy focused
20:38 < sudo_halt> Its for having highest security
20:38 < kristina> embedded people tend to be a bit crazy when they enter the high level realm up to a point of preaching that shared_ptr is evil because it secretly does a small dynamic allocation.
20:38 < synaps3> pepermuntjes, why do you recommend fedora ?
20:39 < no_gravity> Ok, I will go with the new version...
20:40 < pepermuntjes> synaps3, hmm, maybe tails is better
20:40 < Smithe> Can I set an interface where all requests to 127.5.x.x will go?
20:41 < mawk> of course Smithe
20:41 < mawk> you want an additionnal interface ? or use an existing one
20:41 < kristina> so it's not hard to see why the glibc's stupid TID thing bothers me and that i have to patch it or pull it out from TLS which can break with ABI or intercept clone.
20:41 < pepermuntjes> synaps3, can you run centos 7 from usb?
20:41 < mawk> ip link add dummy0 type dummy; ip route add 127.5.0.0/16 dev dummy0
20:42 < mawk> and you can also do ip route add local 127.5.0.0/16 dev dummy table local
20:42 < mawk> to be able to bind on any of these addresses without having the address, as you can do for localhost
20:42 < Dagmar> ...or simply let the route be created when you bind an address to an interface
20:42 < mawk> yeah
20:42 < mawk> that's what I was about to say
20:42 < synaps3> hmm live version probably
20:43 < mawk> instead of adding the first route you can also add an address, it's prettier: ip addr add 127.5.0.1/16 dev dummy0
20:43 < sudo_halt> You see, TAILS is designed to be 100% secure and anonymous for good reasons, yet its not a day to day distro
20:43 < synaps3> there is some porteus thing
20:43 < synaps3> or salix, slackware based
20:43 < leru> hi, i couldn't find anything about precision touchpads on linux. will there be support for this feature anywhere soon?
20:43 < synaps3> idk i think i will just go with some live distro
20:44 < kristina> remember to wear a ski mask while using tails as well for extra privacy.
20:44 < sudo_halt> yes, Porteus
20:45 < sudo_halt> TAILS dis-engages external system devices.
20:45 < sudo_halt> In other words your webcam is never engaged so its not a concern.
20:45 < sudo_halt> yet i DO reccommend using someone else's wifi, for your own sake.
20:45 < mawk> and the keyboard ?
20:45 < mawk> they keep the keyboard, but what if it's an additionnal keylogger keyboard
20:46 < sudo_halt> It protects keyboard access, yet a physical hijack is possible.
20:46 < mawk> it's working Smithe ?
20:46 < Oxbaadf00d> kristina: what would be a more ideal solution?
20:46 < kristina> you don't have full control over a lot of things on your machine, like the EC, if you want to go full paranoia mode remove your mic and camera from your laptop, physiaclly disconnect them! and still wear a ski mask!
20:46 < sudo_halt> You can use Qubes and engage TAILS on top of it, having a VM in between, yet thats overkill
20:46 < synaps3> kek
20:46 < sudo_halt> Which is the strongest security yet,
20:47 < mawk> as it's a subrange of 127.0.0.0/8 I even think you don't need the local 127.5.0.0/16 dev dummy0 table local thing, Smithe , let me try
20:47 < sudo_halt> And can protect agains ring -3 attacks.
20:47 < synaps3> ill throw laptop after every use
20:47 < debkad> lol
20:48 < sudo_halt> And you can put all of that over another computer relaying all network access, to be sure
20:48 < sudo_halt> Yet i dont really know why you would want THAT level of privacy for,
20:49 < kristina> Oxbaadf00d: as i said, libLinux.4.so or something along the lines (maybe even in VDSO) that contained signal return code, all the trampolines for clone/signals/etc and then libc vendors could use that for their portable wrappers while you can still use raw libLinux interfaces if you don't give a crap about portability.
20:49 < Oxbaadf00d> for getting TID
20:49 < debkad> stress more than enough = instable situation
20:50 < kristina> well that was my suggestion. with current situation you intercept clone, i mean you have to do it anyway because god forbid some library secretly attempts to spawn a thread without me knowing about it.
20:51 < Oxbaadf00d> sounds like a design issue
20:51 < Oxbaadf00d> in your software
20:51 < kristina> the tls thing is uh, struct pthread for current thread is accessible through a register, if you know the offset you just get tid from there.
20:52 < jnewt> though I had this fixed, apparently not.   dig gets correct ip for LAN host, but nslookup, ping, ssh, probably others don't.   I can't figure out why.
20:52 < kristina> not really, the tid should not require making a redundant syscall, that's idiotic.
20:52 < kristina> it's nonportable sure.
20:52 < Oxbaadf00d> getpid() ?
20:53 < no_gravity> Rebooting .. fingers crossed ...
20:53 < kristina> pid returns the thread group's leader.
20:53 < kristina> getpid*
20:54 < Oxbaadf00d> manual says PID of calling process
20:54 < kristina> tid is the non portable magic kinda pid but not really thing that gettid returns.
20:54 < TheWild> hello
20:54 < kristina> i have a spoiler for you, linux kernel is thread-aware.
20:54 < Oxbaadf00d> ?
20:55 < kristina> back in the dark ages thread and task were the same thing on linux.
20:55 < hodapp> what is "task" here?
20:55 < Oxbaadf00d> task == thread == process afaik
20:55 < kristina> back in linuxthreads days. er thread and process sorry.
20:56 < kristina> task is a schedulable entity.
20:56 < hodapp> Oxbaadf00d: not in general, no
20:56 < Oxbaadf00d> hodapp: how is this not true
20:56 < lordvadr> Oxbaadf00d: pthreads was intentionally designed to not have a waittid type semantics for a number of reasons. Yet people still try to do it with all sorts of justifications that just shouldn't be in the mindset of threads.
20:56 < Oxbaadf00d> are you guys reading mac manuals?
20:56 < Oxbaadf00d> or what's going on here
20:57 < hodapp> Oxbaadf00d: tasks in general might be implemented with threads but can be implemented completely without them.
20:57 < kristina> linux doesn't have processes, it has tasks and task groups (aka threads).
20:57 < TheWild> performance critical thing. Okay, not that performance critical, but I'd like to exercise some assembly. Could you recommend me an assembler and how to debug resulting programs nicely? On Windows I was using Flat assembler and Olly Debugger (it was a GUI one!).
20:57 < Oxbaadf00d> it has process id's, and struct task_struct
20:57 < Oxbaadf00d> or whatever it's called
20:57 < kristina> a process is just an idea carried over from unicies.
20:57 < no_gravity> Holla, the machine rebooted fine!
20:58 < TheWild> or I just use FreeBasic. It has nice syntax for inline assembly. The C/C++ ones are ugly.
20:58 < hodapp> err, this is the first I've ever heard that Linux doesn't have processes
20:59 < kristina> a thread is a schedulable entity, it may have a usermode part or not (current).
21:00 < kristina> thread/task whatever you want to call it. i think a process would be defined as a thread with a userland part that has some additional baggage because of it.
21:01 < hodapp> defined as, or implemented as?
21:02 < debkad> so process is a thread but thread doesn't necessarily mean to be a process?
21:02 < Oxbaadf00d> a process is a task_struct
21:02 < Oxbaadf00d> a thread is a process
21:02 < Oxbaadf00d> stop confusing people
21:02 < lordvadr> A process is a memory space and at least one thread.
21:04 < hodapp> yeah, I'm still stuck at "linux doesn't have processes"
21:04 < debkad> o_O
21:04 < malina> panties falling off is a process in making.
21:04 < mawk> hodapp: maybe what you heard is that linux doesn't spawn processes out of nowhere
21:04 < mawk> but only as forks
21:05 < hodapp> mawk: I'm quoting...
21:05 < mawk> I see
21:05 < mawk> what the guy who said that meant, then
21:05 < kristina> a process isn't a thing, linux has a notion of tasks internally. kernel only tasks without current, are what linux internally calls a thread. tasks that have current are well, tasks.
21:05 < hodapp> kristina: how does any of that imply that a process isn't a thing?
21:06 < hodapp> all you're saying is that "processes have an implementation"
21:06 < kristina> a process is a task that has a current and that is a leader of a task group.
21:06  * debkad want to hear "The meeting rose"
21:06 < Smithe> mawk, yes, I don't actually need it, but since all these addresses has a common use I would find pratical to group them in an interface
21:06 < hodapp> okay, so you just told us that a process *is* a thing
21:07 < debkad> an that thing is another thing
21:07 < hodapp> is, or is implemented by?
21:07 < debkad> not sure
21:08 < hodapp> the fact that people continually confuse what something is with how it's built continues to astound me
21:08 < hodapp> it's like saying "cars aren't real. your car is made of metal."
21:08 < debkad> :D
21:09 < debkad> the nothing become a thing
21:09 < hexnewbie> That's not a steering wheel, it controls a computer which controls the steering.
21:09 < kristina> okay in more detail. task is a schedulable entity as far as the scheduling system is concerned.
21:09 < kristina> with some exceptions.
21:10 < kristina> but we'll leave those out for now.
21:10 < debkad> ok
21:11 < mawk> yeah you don't need the local route part Smithe , so only add the dummy interface, and add an address with the correct range
21:11 < mawk> you can call it whatever you want, not just dummyN
21:11 < mawk> ip link add dummy0 type dummy; ip link set dummy0 up state up; ip addr add 127.5.0.1/16 dev dummy0
21:12 < kristina> a process that is in its normal state of existance is, internally a task with current that is a leader of a group of tasks or is its own leader (it's confusing because linux kernel wasn't thread aware until a certain point).
21:12 < Oxbaadf00d> now ask yourself this question, does a task *always* have a unique *process* id ?
21:12 < lordvadr> How about, the term process used to be reasonably well defined, however, with additions of things like process groups and threads implemented in various ways, the phrase, "a process" can be ambiguous. New terms such as "task", "taks group", "thread", etc have emerged, each improving understanding while also sometimes increasing context-based ambiguity.
21:13 < lordvadr> Is that a better definition? I think we can all agree on what each of those means in most circumstances.
21:14 < debkad> anyway, returning to my first question about the sound, the error was: pulseaudio[24739]: [alsa-sink-ALC888 Analog] alsa-sink.c: Error opening PCM device front:0: Périphérique ou ressource occupé ( mean Device or resource is busy )
21:14 < hodapp> 'task' and 'thread' are similarly vague terms
21:14 < lordvadr> They are. Totally agree.
21:14 < hodapp> in a specific context, their meaning might be a bit more concrete
21:15 < lordvadr> Absolutely.
21:15 < kristina> Oxbaadf00d: it has a task id (confusingly called pid for single threaded process), which for single threaded processes doesn't matter.
21:15 < Oxbaadf00d> are you referring to pid_t pid, in task_struct ?
21:16 < kristina> namespaces make it even more confusing.
21:16 < luxio> Where are program files usually stored?
21:16 < kristina> but assuming they don't exist, every task has a unique id but that's not what getpid is.
21:16 < arooni> is there way to find across all directories a list of files that have changed most recently?
21:16 < kristina> presuming*
21:16 < luxio> like if I download a program and it has an executable and all its files, where should I put that
21:17 < arooni> /dev/zero
21:17 < luxio> hilarious
21:17 < kristina> getpid returns the id of the LEADER of the current task group.
21:17 < mawk> luxio: some people put that in /opt
21:17 < Oxbaadf00d> kristina: what manual are you reading that in?
21:17 < kristina> gettid returns the unique id.
21:17 < autopsy> luxio, /usr/local is where locally installed admoinistrator files go.
21:17 < Oxbaadf00d> i've never tried so i'll entertain the idea that getpid manual is lying to everyone
21:17 < mawk> also you can put it in ~/.local if you execute it with your own user
21:17 < kristina> my memory of kernel development.
21:17 < mawk> or /usr/local for the usual emplacement
21:18 < kristina> i wrote a mach compat layer for linux at one point.
21:18 < kristina> with mach ipc, mach tasks/threads, mach ports etc.
21:20 < kristina> i wrote a linker and a libc to go alongside it.
21:20 < kristina> and ran darwin on top.
21:20 < autopsy> mawk, /opt /usr/local that's where I think the LSB states they go.
21:20 < kristina> it was fun.
21:20 < kristina> (linux ran launchd, how cute is that? :D)
21:21 < kristina> this was way way way way before darling or anything else did something similar, not sure what they did.
21:21 < xamithan> is launchd fuzzy ?
21:21 < autopsy> arooni, find has parameters to search for files with a specific atime stamp.
21:22 < autopsy> arooni, might want to try: man 1 find
21:22 < kristina> i think darling uses binfmt_misc too while my thing implemented the macho loader as an equal class citizen to the elf loader for executables.
21:23 < kristina> that's how it decided whether a process would have a mach or linux "personality".
21:23 < hexnewbie> Is darling getting anywhere?
21:23 < kristina> no clue, i think they got as far as me maybe.
21:24 < kristina> but they're less arcane ie. they're not modifying how mm or process creation works.
21:24 < kristina> which makes it hard.
21:24 < hexnewbie> There are some commits, but it seems like it's stuck at running mc
21:25 < kristina> ie. i had to implement task_create and task ports, those pretty much require heavy kernel patches.
21:26 < kristina> task_create didn't "fork" from the genesis task unlike a conventional linux thing.
21:27 < autopsy> arooni, line 338 of the find manual page has -amin n d -anewer -atime n for accesses. atime
21:29 < kristina> well i wouldn't call it linux actually, it was a mach subsystem built on linux, kinda like win32k is a subsystem on top of nt except they're sort of monolithic except when they're not kind of thing.
21:30 < kristina> i think i even wrote a kqueue implementation that could wait on mach ports too.
21:40 < arooni> thanks autopsy
21:41 < TheWild> random question (okay, I know this is not a channel for random questions). Do you think my ISP (or at least NSA) keeps somewhere the packets I sent/received 6 years ago?
21:43 < revel> I think the NSA has a camera in your house.
21:43 < autopsy> TheWild, there's too much data to log all packets for an ISP. Why would they do that in America?
21:44 < autopsy> They could sure..
21:44 < autopsy> But I mean it's through put.
21:44 < SporkWitch> TheWild: NSA has a policy of scooping up any encrypted traffic they can and holding it indefinitely
21:45 < revel> If they did, then they'd have to at least filter it somewhat.
21:45 < revel> SporkWitch: Even any from Netflix?
21:45 < SporkWitch> TheWild: that said, the odds are good that no one gives a shit about you, and even with heuristics it's simply infeasible to look at everything, so you can expect some decent triage
21:46 < Oxbaadf00d> TheWild: some ISP's have public patents involving asigning a risk score to users depending on their activities
21:46 < SporkWitch> revel: i don't know how they triage, but they do have a policy of storing encrypted stuff indefinitely, even if they weren't actively looking at the participants in question
21:46 < emberquill> The sheer volume of data they would have to process to keep the individual packets of EVERYONE is... astronomical.
21:46 < twainwek> it's not about looking at everything, it's about having the ability to query all your data if need be, and yes they can
21:46 < Oxbaadf00d> some isps/one isp at least
21:46 < SporkWitch> that's what that new datacentre was for :)
21:46 < revel> Then they probably have zettabytes of Netflix traffic...
21:46 < revel> lol
21:46 < TheWild> I thought so... but maybe a slight chance
21:47 < xamithan> They mostly log overseas traffic,  not so much in-country but it happens
21:47 < revel> TheWild: Are you secretly DRP 2.0?
21:47 < revel> s/DRP/DPR/
21:47 < emberquill> When I start getting too paranoid about government agencies spying on me I remind myself that in the context of everything going on in the world, my web browsing habits and Netflix watch history don'teven rate a passing glance.
21:47 < SporkWitch> TheWild: the only answer to mass surveilance is to encrypt everything.  Once that becomes the norm it forces the alphabet soup agencies to return to due process, since even if they can break X encrypted files per day, they're forced to decide WHICH.  Bury them with encrypted traffic and the surveilance state falls apart
21:48 < SporkWitch> emberquill: mine was more concise: no one gives a shit about you
21:48 < TheWild> well, actually I was interested if there was a chance of paying my ISP some money (or not) and they could recover the packets from that time frame. The traffic of interest was in fact unencrypted.
21:48 < emberquill> Ah.
21:48 < emberquill> Odds are that won't be possible.
21:48 < Lope> What's the difference between 7z and 7za?
21:48 < emberquill> Even if they did keep that data.
21:49 < twainwek> i'd imagine that it's highly unlikely your isp itself keeps _all_ your packets
21:49 < twainwek> too expensive
21:50 < emberquill> SporkWitch: 7za is a stand-alone executable that can handle a few archive formats. 7z relies on external libraries but handles far more archive formats.
21:50 < debkad> 7z(1) uses plugins to handle archives. 7za(1) is a stand-alone executable
21:50 < emberquill> Whoops, meant Lope
21:50  * SporkWitch glares
21:50  * emberquill hides
21:52 < ilmaisin> hello
21:52 < ilmaisin> i wonder if there is noticeable improvement in laptop battery life between kernels 4.9 and 4.15
21:53 < ilmaisin> i'm running debian and i am thinking whether does it make sense to run a -backports kernel
21:54 < TheWild> btw, what was the secret code to type in Google for SWAT raid?
21:55 < Oxbaadf00d> ilmaisin: unscientifically, there seems to be improved longevity after i upgraded from 4.9 -> 4.14, but i have no idea what cased it
21:55 < ilmaisin> ok
21:55 < ilmaisin> maybe i should try it out
21:56 < Oxbaadf00d> could be something intel/nvidia specific
21:56 < ilmaisin> my device has intel cpu and no discrete graphics
21:57 < Lope> emberquill: debkad thanks
21:57 < Oxbaadf00d> or was it 4.11 i can't remember now
21:58 < Oxbaadf00d> whenever the backlight stopped autodimming in nouveau fb console
22:01 < PurpleBooger> Anyone know if Office365 works in Linux?
22:01 < TheWild> the "secret code" was: pressure cookers
22:01 < Sleaker> PurpleBooger: 365 is their webproduct right?
22:02 < PurpleBooger> yeah
22:02 < Sleaker> PurpleBooger: the answer to that question then is: depends on what browser you're using.
22:02 < phogg> PurpleBooger: does it work on Windows with Firefox without any browser plugins?
22:02 < phogg> if yes then likely yes
22:02 < PurpleBooger> Certainly works in Windows w/ Firefox and Chrome....unsure of plugins
22:03 < georgr> hi, I'm looking for a way to "wrap" a serial tty device in an input device, such that characters received on the serial port get mapped to input events. Does something like this exist?
22:03 < phogg> older office-based web things required IE extensions to function properly. Could be they did the same thing this time
22:03 < emberquill> It should work fine. Microsoft finally got the message about Silverlight and have basically killed it.
22:04 < emberquill> So I think O365 might be pure HTML5/JS.
22:04 < phogg> emberquill: no silverlight, no activeX controls. Is it really Microsoft without those things?
22:04 < Sleaker> ^ that
22:04 < Sleaker> basically just install the same browser.
22:04 < Sleaker> OS is not going to change if 365 will work.
22:10 < twainwek> rumor has it that microsoft is researching how to show syntax highlighting of code snippets and api docs on their website
22:11 < morenoh149> twainwek: nice
22:15 < Lope> does anyone here fiddle with bash completion for their own custom things?
22:16 < phogg> Lope: I normally disable all custom completions and use built in only. There are too many corner cases and weird performance problems for me.
22:16 < Psi-Jack> Are we there yet?
22:18 < Psi-Jack> Bleh, Microsoft. Office 365.. I have a better solution for anyone looking at that. SoftMaker Office. Look it up.
22:19 < Lope> kristina: are you saying the RbPi ARMv7 chips have problems? RbPi advertise themselves as being so reliable.
22:19 < Lope> phogg: ok
22:20 < Psi-Jack> Problems with what?
22:20 < Lope> "Most user friendly, best and biggest community, dogs balls and the kitchen sink, included, but not really.
22:20 < Lope> kristina alluded to hardware bugs in RbPi ARMv7 chips.
22:21 < Ben64> over an hour ago :o
22:22 < Lope> Ben64: thanks for the arbitrary information.
22:22 < Ben64> well it's weird to respond to someone way after they mention something
22:23 < Psi-Jack> Heh
22:23 < Lope> in your opinion, thanks for sharing it.
22:23 < Psi-Jack> Well over an hour ago. O.o
22:23 < Ben64> you're welcome
22:23  * Lope feels warm and fuzzy inside
22:24 < phogg> Lope: that's incoherent rage frothing to the surface. Try not to be around other people when it arrives.
22:24 < Lope> phogg: don't quit your day job to become a shrink.
22:25 < phogg> Lope: I wouldn't dream of it.
22:25 < jnewt> having trouble with documents in mounts from server.   if i mount nfs, I cannot open libre office docs without copying local first.   if i mount via cifs (server runs samba for windows clients which have no issues), it mounts with all the owner / group set to root instead of what they actually are on the server.
22:25 < phogg> talking to people for a living sounds like hell to me
22:25 < Psi-Jack> "What is your job title?" a man asked. They answered, "I'm a shrink." "Oh, well, that's why you're so small?" he asked.
22:25 < phogg> jnewt: Locks over NFS are not well supported. CIFS shares have weird permission interactions. Welcome to life!
22:25 < Lope> he could reply "I make people's problems shrink"
22:25 < jnewt> i've been fighting this for a while, can anyone help me get it working properly?
22:26 < phogg> jnewt: you can set up ownership mappings with samba which may help
22:26 < jnewt> phogg, is there a way for linux clients to use shared directories / files without issues, or it just sucks at that?
22:27 < Psi-Jack> jnewt: You can fix samba, you can't fix nfs. NFSv3 or NFSv4?
22:27 < Lope> phogg: BTW I was using the positive connotation of "feeling warm and fuzzy inside", I dunno what definitions you're familiar with.
22:27 < phogg> jnewt: NFS is what it is. Each program has to deal with it correctly.
22:27 < Psi-Jack> I believe we (or at least this subject itself) came up in ##linux last week, too.
22:27 < phogg> jnewt: that said nfsv4 is a lot less weird in my experience
22:27 < phogg> okay, a lot less weird for *some* things
22:28 < Lope> phogg: maybe you were mixing that up with blood boiling or something, both involve heat, but the one is more heat and of a negative nature the other one is pleasant
22:28 < jnewt> Psi-Jack, i'm running NFSv3, I was unable to get our freebsd server set up for NFSv4, so I gave up on that.
22:28 < phogg> Lope: I wasn't mixing it up, I was implying your warm positive feelings were actually warm angry feelings.
22:28 < Psi-Jack> Oh. FreeBSD? FreeBSD actually supports proper NFSv4, unlike Linux.\
22:28 < Lope> phogg: you shouldn't assume or guess what other people feel whom you haven't met
22:28 < jnewt> Psi-Jack, I couldn't get it to work after about 4 hrs and gave up.
22:29 < jim> what piece is missing?
22:29 < Lope> Last time I ran NFSv3 was for OpenVZ, from what I've read v4 is much better.
22:29 < phogg> jnewt: Try again? NFS v4 is not that complicated, it's just not v3-easy.
22:29 < Psi-Jack> Lope: SMBv3.0 and NFSv4 are very fast.
22:29 < phogg> Lope: I wasn't guessing I was *implying*.
22:29 < Lope> v4 isn't hard, if you're dealing with a port based firewall you need to do a few hacks to make it use specific ports.
22:30 < jnewt> phogg: I ran out of things to try.   I set it up per the instructions and could not connect.   access denied.   I couldn't find any reason why.
22:30 < phogg> jnewt: what did the logs say? You can get quite extensive logging with nfs.
22:30 < Lope> phogg: since you can't feel my feelings you are in fact guessing
22:30 < georgr> if I specify 'console=tty0 console=ttyS0' as boot arguments, will everything that "happens" on the ttyS0 device appear on tty0?
22:30 < Lope> phogg: I could be a bot for all you know.
22:30 < georgr> i.e. will I simply see a duplicate of  the ttyS0 screenbuffer on tty0?
22:31 < Psi-Jack> georgr: TIAS
22:31 < Lope> phogg: so in other words, it's best not to make too many unnecessary assumptions.
22:31 < phogg> Lope: Guessing would suggest that I was trying to estimate what you were feeling. I was not. I was suggesting, for comedic effect, a cause for the feeling you expressed which was at odds with your given explanation.
22:31 < georgr> Psi-Jack: I haven't written the driver yet
22:31 < Psi-Jack> Eh?
22:32 < georgr> I made a hardware device that can display text buffers much like VGA-text
22:32 < georgr> except it reads them from the system memory
22:32 < jnewt> phogg: ok, i'm going to try to switch back over.  never got anything in /var/log/messages or anywhere else when i got the connection error.   give me a few I'll set it up again
22:32 < georgr> and now I'm trying to figure out how to best get console output on my device while using a serial console for the input
22:33 < phogg> jnewt: not sure what you do on FreeBSD since I've not run a freebsd NFS server in years, but you need to turn up the logging on the server side (don't forget to reload the daemon)
22:33 < Lope> phogg: fair enough, and jokes are good. However I'm not very fond of jokes that lower social good-will. So if you make a false negative assessment of the situation, even as a joke, I feel the need to respond (at least once) in the interest of the community's good nature and will.
22:33 < jnewt> phogg: I didn't see anything about turning up the logging.   sounds good, finding someone who knows how to do it is another thing apparently
22:34 < jim> Psi-Jack,  what's missing in linux for it to be able to support nfsv4?
22:34 < Lope> phogg: eh, I don't want to give my perception of things, this is #linux, and off topic. But it is a positive one, with no malaise or sarcasm. I'll leave it at that.
22:34 < georgr> I was planning to write a console driver but that might not work like I intend it to, i.e. once the interactive shell starts on the console I might not get the user i/o from ttyS0 on the tty0 device
22:35 < Psi-Jack> jim: It supports the basics of NFSv4, but not all of NFSv4, such as the failover portions that were added to it.
22:35 < jim> so it's in the nfs kernel driver?
22:35 < Psi-Jack> Failover support is not in the NFSv4 kernel driver, in Linux.
22:37 < Lope> Wgat kernel modules do I need to be loaded for traffic shaping?
22:37 < jim> is that the only thing missing?
22:37 < jim> I think there's a module called shapr
22:37 < Psi-Jack> That's the big part I saw that was missing, which I felt was the most important part of NFSv4.
22:38 < Lope> I'm trying to do this and I'm getting a message "We have an error talking to the kernel": `tc filter add dev ppp0 parent 1:0 protocol ip prio 10 u32 match ip tos 0x10 0xff  flowid 1:10`
22:38 < jim> can nfs be implemented in user space?
22:38 < Psi-Jack> Yes it can, and has been.
22:40 < jim> can those userspace implementations be used in linux?
22:40 < Psi-Jack> Yes, of course, but I still have yet to see a fully functional NFSv4 userspace service that actually implements it all.
22:41 < Lope> could 0xff have something to do with ipv6?
22:41 < jim> so stuff
22:41 < jim> er
22:41 < jim> so stuff's missing from those as well\
22:42 < jim> Lope, do you use ppp?
22:42 < jnewt> phogg, ok, i've reset the v4 options in my server's rc.conf file and restarted nfs daemon.  i can see the shared directory with showmount -e .   when i run mount -a -t nfs from client, i get mount.nfs: access denied by server while mounting <SERVER>:/path/to/share  this is where I got before and couldn't progress any further
22:42 < Lope> jim: yes, in some situations
22:42 < Psi-Jack> Heh, even the closest one, nfs-ganesha, does not provide its own clustering support.
22:43 < Lope> jim: I'm in South Africa where a lot of people still have to use ADSL, while fiber is being rolled out.
22:44 < jim> Lope, are you using ppp at the moment? reason I ask, is I[m trying to see what ip addr shows when there's a pointopoint interface
22:46 < royal_screwup21> I want to see the top n processes consuming my cpu power. I'm running top but I'm not quite sure how to navigate through. Specifically, I want to be able to type out some process and see how my power it's consuming
22:46 < royal_screwup21> much power*
22:46 < Disconsented> Do you mean actual power or '%' ?
22:46 < lukey_> royal_screwup21: You can select the sorting row woth "<" and ">"
22:47 < xamithan> i thought it was with , and .
22:47 < royal_screwup21> the % would be a better metric, yes
22:47 < jim> Lope, I'm working on a masq firewall generator (it already works, I'm porting pieces from ifconfig to ip
22:47 < Lope> jim: generally the ppp0 interface will get an IP given to it by the ISP
22:48 < Lope> (a public internet IP)
22:48 < Lope> then you can route traffic through it.
22:48 < jim> Lope, could you show an ip a listing (you're of course welcome to blot out the actual IPs)
22:49 < jim> like, ip addr > somefile; emacs somefile ; cat somefile | nc termbin.com 9999
22:51 < Lope> ip addr show has a line like this: inet a.b.c.d peer e.f.g.h/32 scope global ppp0
22:51 < Lope> that's on one of my computers with a ppp0 connection
22:52 < Lope> The first line has stuff specific to the situation
22:52 < Lope> 7: ppp0: <POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST,NOARP,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1492 qdisc cbq state UNKNOWN group default qlen 3
22:52 < jim> does it show the word pointopoint anywhere? (ok, so "word" is a strong word...)
22:53 < ShadeS> hi
22:53 < jim> hi
22:53 < jim> ok, so it does have that word, and it shows the peer
22:54 < ShadeS> I don't know if this is a linux bash or postgres question
22:55 < ShadeS> what i'd like to do is pull a dataset, specifically: https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cder/ndctext.zip
22:56 < mawk> the peer isn't required jim , it's just sugar, you can add a /32 route yourself
22:56 < ShadeS> i have to do 4 separate vi commands to replace TABS with "," and append a " to the start and end of each line and :e ++ff=dos to get rid of the ^M; then run an drop tables if exists, and import statement
22:56 < mawk> but POINTOPOINT is required indeed
22:57 < ozymandias> ShadeS, sounds like a job for sed ;-)
22:57 < ShadeS> i suppose the best way to do this is with a cron job and a few lines of sed instead of doing it manually in vim
22:57 < TheWild> could the bit-rotten RAM fix itself after months of being not used?
22:57 < jim> the dataset would have to be translated for psql to interpret it, or you can write a program to translate
22:58 < ShadeS> s/program/few lines of bash or sed/
22:58 < uplime> sed's a program
22:58 < ShadeS> yes I know
22:58 < uplime> :D
23:00 < Lope> want to see a great website www.ExpertSexChange.com
23:01 < Lope> it's where all the transsexuals go for technical assistance.
23:01 < TheWild> http://img.funnytab.net/gallery/signs/Kidsexchange.jpg
23:01 < ShadeS> my school blocked that website
23:01 < ShadeS> for containing sex in the domain name
23:01 < TheWild> lol
23:02 < ShadeS> it was causing problems for the IT classes and the administration because they didn't know how to make an official deciion on what gets blocked
23:02 < TheWild> aren't the people there aware of proxies?
23:03 < Lope> I have ubuntu 16.04 and can't run the wondershaper script. "We have an error talking to the kernel." any ideas? Are there kernel modules I need to load?
23:03 < jim> shapr?
23:03 < Dagmar> Why would they be bothered by the word "sex" when it's clearly a human trafficking site?
23:04 < Dagmar> The wife was pretty clear with me... I am *not* under any circumstances, allowed to trade in the boy for something more useful
23:04 < d1z> is it possible in a non systemd os, say rhel6, to configure a service for which a certain user has the privileges to start/stop? like systemctl --user for systed
23:05 < Dagmar> d1z: THat's pretty much what sudo was designed for
23:05 < d1z> ?
23:05 < morenoh149> can one tee stdout to stdout and a file, and, stderr to another file?
23:05 < Dagmar> d1z: You use /etc/sudoers to grant a specific user the ability to run a specific command (and no other commands) as root, for example
23:07 < d1z> can you give access to specific commands and subcommands? say sudo access for a command like `service foo restart`, rather than permissions over the `service` binary itself?
23:07 < ayecee> d1z: yes
23:09 < d1z> goddamn
23:09 < Psi-Jack> Language.
23:10 < d1z> i always thought it was only over a specific binary. didn't know sudo was capable of such advanced technology like full string parsing for specific commands
23:12 < Psi-Jack> "full string parsing?" sudo allows you to set up rules of what can be run, what user and/or group they can be run under, what specific command can be run, irregardless of one's $PATH, and they can use `sudo -l` to list what they can do.
23:13 < d1z> I was joking. What I meant was that I thought it was permissions over specific binaries, not over specific commands. Meaning that I can now give an user permission to do say, "systemctl restart sshd", but when try to do "systemctl restart otherservice" it won't work
23:13 < jim> referring to my thing? it's a service so the helper scripts run as root
23:14 < d1z> if I understood correctly
23:14 < rulezzz> hello How can I get the size of a list of directories I use du to get size and find to filter by date
23:14 < rulezzz> my command: find /mnt/ae/ -type d -newermt "2018-04-01" ! -newermt "2018-04-30" | xargs -I{} du -sh  --time {}
23:14 < Psi-Jack> d1z: Yes, that is correct
23:17 < Loshki> morenoh149: I would think so. Perhaps something like: bash_command 2> stderr_file tee stdout_file
23:17 < jnewt> my syslog says the server requires strong authentication when trying to mount with nfs v4.   pretty specific there ubuntu, thanks.
23:18 < Psi-Jack> rulezzz: No need for |xargs.
23:18 < Psi-Jack> Just -exec du -sh --time \{\} +
23:19 < uplime> (assuming bash) you don't even need the \{\}. you can just do {}
23:19 < srukle> Does anyone have experience with unknown encoding on Linux? I upgraded my desktop environment and a file I've been working on was corrupted. It's a java file. I've tried using enca and chardetect. Both report either "unknown encoding" or "no result." Am I going to be able to save my work? :(
23:19 < Psi-Jack> You do need \{\} on the command-line, else, {} becomes something else. ;)
23:19 < uplime> not for bash
23:19 < Psi-Jack> Yes, for bash.
23:19 < uplime> its not
23:20 < revel> Psi-Jack: You probably need to do some shopt stuff for it to matter.
23:20 < uplime> {} is not treated as anything special unless its a brace expansion or the beginning of a word
23:20 < koala_man> srukle: are you sure it's still a java file?
23:20 < srukle> koala_man: I thought this too. It's likely it's not?
23:20 < Psi-Jack> -exec blah blah {}  is the beginning of a word...
23:21 < uplime> shell word I mean
23:21 < koala_man> srukle: it's unlikely to have its encoding changed to something completely incomprehensible
23:21 < uplime> ie, { foo; } && bar
23:21 < srukle> koala_man: Could you point me in any direction for further troubleshooting?
23:21 < uplime> https://clbin.com/Iuw0U
23:21 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm.. I'd had trouble with it in the past. But does seem to work as-is now.
23:21 < koala_man> srukle: does it show as binary garbage now?
23:22 < srukle> koala_man: yes
23:22 < uplime> Psi-Jack: this isn't the first time I've had this discussion, so it very well could be that something changed before my time
23:22 < Psi-Jack> Yep. :)
23:22 < rulezzz> Psi-Jack find /mnt/ae/ -type d -newermt "2018-04-01" ! -newermt "2018-04-30" | -exec du -sh --time \{\} +     No command '-exec' found, did you mean: blabla bla
23:22 < Psi-Jack> rulezzz: No |
23:23 < Loshki> srukle: restore it from the backup I'm sure you made before you upgraded...
23:23 < MrElendig> don't add random characters
23:23 < koala_man> srukle: did you have an encrypted home dir? does 'file' recognize it?
23:24 < srukle> koala_man: yes, I haven't configured anything too complicated, just base Ubuntu. file output is 'data'
23:25 < rulezzz> I get only get the total size of the folder
23:26 < Psi-Jack> rulezzz: Directory.
23:26 < Psi-Jack> rulezzz: Replace + with \;
23:28 < JPSman> Hello!  I just discovered that my laptop has an accelerometer in it, and I'd like to play with it.  The only way I can think of right now is to parse the text output of  'evtest /dev/input/event8' into python.  Is there any neat software that I could use to play with it?
23:29 < Psi-Jack> JPSman: Sure. Make some. :)
23:30 < Psi-Jack> rulezzz: Gotten progress on properly using find? ;)
23:30 < rulezzz> Psi-Jack ind /mnt/ae/ -type d -newermt "2018-04-01" ! -newermt "2018-04-30"  -exec du -sh --time \{\} \; Works but how can I sum all the size output
23:31 < Psi-Jack> rulezzz: I thought you wanted to sort by date? :p
23:31 < snailrazor> Psi-Jack: do you like to get a little mud on the helmet?
23:31 < Psi-Jack> snailrazor: wut
23:31 < rulezzz> yep its sort but I also need the sum of all the out put
23:31 < TyrfingMjolnir> Anyone got the latter celtx from before the cloud edition surfaced?
23:31 < Psi-Jack> rulezzz: That wasn't sorted.
23:32 < snailrazor> Psi-Jack: do you have a plunger in your toilet that you refuse to remove?
23:32 < Psi-Jack> Adding | sort -k2, would sort it.
23:32 < Psi-Jack> Anyone smell troll?
23:33 < snailrazor> thats not what i smell
23:33 < snailrazor> come on guys lighten up enjoy some jokes
23:33 < snailrazor> its not all about kernels and window managers
23:34 < armin> there are fairly good window managers out there
23:34 < Psi-Jack> rulezzz: Sorting by date, and getting total usage are two entirely different things. :)
23:35 < rulezzz> Psi-Jack find /mnt/ae/ -type d -newermt "2018-04-01" ! -newermt "2018-04-30"  -exec du -sh --time \{\} \; | sort -k2
23:35 < TyrfingMjolnir> Anyone know which linux distros had celtx packaged?
23:35 < Psi-Jack> rulezzz: That sorts by date. The + you used before \; | sort -k2, gets total usage, if it can do it all in one command.
23:37 < Psi-Jack> TyrfingMjolnir: Google?
23:37 < triceratux> snailrazor: nope its all about local caching resolvers that work well with chrome
23:37 < TyrfingMjolnir> Psi-Jack: Is Google a distro?
23:37 < revel> Yes.
23:38 < TyrfingMjolnir> Before I ask here i !DDG
23:38 < Psi-Jack> You what?
23:38 < TyrfingMjolnir> I have even looked at pages that I thought would have the info: https://distrowatch.com/search.php
23:38 < rulezzz> Psi-Jack working...
23:38 < TyrfingMjolnir> I also tried packages.debian.org and packages.ubuntu.com
23:39 < TyrfingMjolnir> Psi-Jack: Which search criteria did you put in google to find which linux distro has celtx?
23:39 < Psi-Jack> TyrfingMjolnir: In other words..... You already answered yourself.
23:39 < srukle> koala_man: I resign to just rewrite the file. I have notes on it. If you are still looking into the problem, I would like to know if you learn anything, so I too can learn. Thank you for your help. You can send me a message. I'm afk.
23:40 < TyrfingMjolnir> Psi-Jack: It's not an answer yet
23:40 < Psi-Jack> TyrfingMjolnir: No answer is still an answer.
23:40 < TyrfingMjolnir> No
23:40 < TyrfingMjolnir> No answer = somebody gave up.
23:40 < Psi-Jack> You did all that searching, and found no results. The answer is clear.
23:40 < TyrfingMjolnir> Chicekened out
23:40 < debkad> https://alternativeto.net/software/celtx/?platform=linux
23:40 < debkad> that the first from google search
23:41 < TyrfingMjolnir> And?
23:41 < debkad> that's the end
23:41 < TyrfingMjolnir> I'm looking for the last version of celtx before it went cloud
23:42 < cyberactive> trying to analyze slow code using perf... 'perf top' show my slow function is 'cv::MOG2Invoker::operator()'. How to use 'perf probe -L' to look at the lines of code?
23:42 < rulezzz> find /mnt/ae/ -type d -newermt "2018-04-01" ! -newermt "2018-04-30" | sort -k2  -exec du -sh --time \{\} +\; | sort -k2
23:42 < rulezzz> sort: invalid option -- 'e'
23:42 < Psi-Jack> rulezzz: Stop it....
23:42 < cyberactive> I try `perf probe -L 'cv::MOG2Invoker::operator()'` but I get error `Semantic error :'start line' is not a valid number.`
23:42 < Psi-Jack> rulezzz: You understand what | is doing don't you?
23:43 < debkad> commands must be after -exec in my opinion not before
23:43 < Psi-Jack> rulezzz: You understand what -exec is doing, and what the difference is between + and ;?
23:43 < rulezzz> Psi-Jack sorry my bash skills are not so good
23:44 < Psi-Jack> rulezzz: | == new command, take command from previous command stream it to current command's stdin.
23:45 < Psi-Jack> And in find's -exec, there's three parts. -exec <command> {} <suffix>, where command is the command to run, {} translates to the file/match, and ; runs for each command, + combines multiple files to a single command.
23:46 < Psi-Jack> Parallelizing like xargs does. (xargs is made by findutils, and integrated into find itself)
23:47 < TyrfingMjolnir> How can I browse this PPA? ppa:dreamstudio/video
23:47 < Psi-Jack> But bash also treats ; as a new command. So for find you escape ; as \;
23:49 < Lope> Can someone please help? I used to be able to use wondershaper, but now I can't. It seems my kernel is lacking the ability to do "tc filter...". Ubuntu 16.04 4.13.0-38-generic
23:50 < Psi-Jack> wondershaper was never really that "good", it was like a blunt instrument,.
23:50 < Psi-Jack> I recommend learning how to actually use tc, and do proper QoS. You will be much happier understanding it. :)
23:50 < Lope> Psi-Jack: yes, I don't use it as is. but it's a point of reference, it SHOULD work, and it doesn't/
23:51 < Lope> So it's not like I'm using tc wrong or something. Kernel doesn't support shaping.
23:51 < Psi-Jack> Sounds like an Ubuntu problem, to me.
23:51 < Lope> Yeah, I used to use it a couple of months ago without any problem.
23:51 < Lope> Looks like some nobhead decided to compile the kernel without the ability to shape.
23:52 < debkad> TyrfingMjolnir: what do you mean by browsing it?
23:52 < jim> Lope, what changed between the last time you were able to use it successfully and now?
23:52 < rulezzz> jesus
23:52 < Psi-Jack> Lope: With LTS you can always change to a newer backported kernel.
23:52 < Lope> jim: it was many months ago, so all I can say for sure is I've changed kernels.
23:53 < _KaszpiR_> TyrfingMjolnir https://launchpad.net/~dreamstudio/+archive/ubuntu/video there isnt much out there, single package only
23:53 < Lope> psi: yeah I'll try that.
23:54 < TyrfingMjolnir> I'm looking for celtx 2.9.4 source code
23:55 < TyrfingMjolnir> Or I guess I could chroot the binary.
23:56 < Psi-Jack> https://www.celtx.com/license.html
23:57 < Lope> I don't see any kernels backported for xenial? https://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial-backports/allpackages
23:58 < Psi-Jack> Lope: apt search linux-generic | grep lts
23:59 < Psi-Jack> Maybe don't include the grep.
--- Log closed Wed Apr 25 00:00:22 2018