--- Log opened Fri Apr 27 00:00:17 2018 --- Day changed Fri Apr 27 2018 00:00 < koala_man> interactive programs are supposed to gracefully handle this and exit if the terminal's no longer there. if they ignore it and retry the read, they get stuck in an infinite failure loop 00:00 < heiler> sometimes it just works like that. 00:00 < antichri|st> make a simple watchdog to kill it when needed as a workaround 00:00 < koala_man> heiler: is it always in the foreground? 00:01 < heiler> koala_man it should be.. it should run only when someone is actively using it.. via telnet 00:01 < heiler> like this one: 00:01 < heiler> root 25629 0.0 0.0 39428 1528 ? Ss 09:21 0:00 in.telnetd: ::ffff:10.31.1.48 00:01 < heiler> root 25659 0.0 0.0 88036 2344 ? Ss 09:21 0:00 login -- 0265845025 00:01 < heiler> 0265845+ 28228 0.0 0.0 115264 1748 pts/129 Ss+ 09:21 0:00 -bash 00:01 < heiler> 0265845+ 28470 0.7 0.2 296892 21212 pts/129 Sl+ 09:21 4:19 natural parm=SATPROD 00:01 < jml2> idiot 00:01 < jml2> use pastebin if its more than 2 lines 00:01 < koala_man> be nice 00:02 < jml2> that almost looks like you were posting firewall rules lol 00:02 < heiler> jml2 use the /dev/null to insult, that rule should prevail any other 00:02 < jml2> heiler, you're pathetic 00:02 < blaztek> heiler: antichri|st's suggestion is good: "make a simple watchdog to kill it when needed..." 00:03 < g9G6g9gG96> to kill what? 00:03 < blaztek> g9G6g9gG96: the offending `natural param=SATPROD` 00:03 < jml2> heiler, and I know you don't use Linux. 00:03 < jml2> heiler, not for 1 bit. 00:04 < heiler> blaztek g9G6g9gG96 I could make a watchdog but this would be the workaround of the workaround 00:05 < heiler> in a system full of workarounds 00:05 < koala_man> you could fix the tool to not do this 00:06 < heiler> I think the program itself just doesn't know the shell/terminal was closed 00:06 < heiler> and it seems to ignore "sigterm" 00:06 < heiler> if I strace it, I see a flood of sigterms 00:06 < antichri|st> which is why you need a watchdog and sigkill 00:06 < antichri|st> or fix the program 00:06 < bnason> hmm ok so I created a new LV, copied the old / files to it, changed grub config and fstab and now im getting stuck on "Starting Switch Root" in bootup. I must have missed something somewhere 00:06 < heiler> but the program keeps on running forever in loop 00:06 < koala_man> that's especially weird. they shouldn't be getting sigterms at all. sighup maybe 00:07 < heiler> antichri|st the program can't be fixed.. it's proprietary, closed-source, etc etc :/ 00:07 < antichri|st> it seems you have two options 00:07 < jml2> bnason, the uuid would be different, so yes you need to update grub completely (its uuid should be different) 00:07 < antichri|st> if you can't fix the program, a workaround seems the only option 00:08 < antichri|st> that's the problem with closed source. you are limited here 00:08 < heiler> antichri|st I just thought I could make the system/kernel itself kills it when the console/terminal is not there anymore 00:08 < antichri|st> but you said the program is not even honouring sigterm 00:08 < heiler> it seems to receive a lot of sigterms but not sigkill 00:08 < antichri|st> it is cancerous 00:09 < heiler> no matter what, if bash run something, and you kill bash, can't I just force the subprograms to be killed? lol 00:09 < antichri|st> if it is receiving sigterm, but not honoruing it and ending gracefully, then you need to catch that and sigkill it 00:09 < heiler> it wasn't even run with & 00:09 < bnason> jml2, I did update the UUID. Also when booting I edit the boot entry to point to the new LV. Do I have to chroot into the new root and run the update grub command to get it to stick? 00:09 < antichri|st> without source code, not many other options 00:10 < jml2> bnason, yep that would be the easiest way.. 00:10 < blaztek> heiler: that's how it works, yes 00:10 < jml2> bnason, the rescue-prompt from the installer should do the mount --binds for /dev for you.. 00:10 < jml2> bnason, were you using efi or bios? make sure you have an efi partition if using efi.. 00:10 < g9G6g9gG96> heiler: does it run as root or it's own user account? 00:10 < koala_man> heiler: it's all hacks at this point, so you could write a wrapper that murders it or add pkill -9 -P 1 yourprogram to crontab 00:11 < heiler> g9G6g9gG96 user accounts 00:11 < g9G6g9gG96> yeah just kill -9 everything on logout 00:11 < g9G6g9gG96> then 00:11 < heiler> hummm 00:11 < koala_man> but the process clearly doesn't want to die since it's ignoring sigterm 00:11 < heiler> like in .bash_logout? 00:12 < heiler> I wonder if it is being called 00:12 < g9G6g9gG96> i don't know, i would do it in the login program personally 00:12 < heiler> koala_man the process don't know what it's doing, I bet!! lol 00:12 < jml2> ya it does get called, but this is why this is brazil 00:12 < jml2> lol 00:13 < g9G6g9gG96> well kill -15, then -9 eventually 00:13 < jml2> bnason, let me know if you fix that boot, i'm good at this 00:13 < bnason> jml2, cool thanks 00:14 < heiler> look it's happening again! 00:14 < heiler> 1901591+ 14469 96.8 0.1 291464 13872 ? Rl 17:53 78:15 natural parm=SATPROD 00:14 < jml2> bnason, you may need to verify any lvm members in lvm.conf iirc 00:14 < heiler> g9G6g9gG96 koala_man notice how it ISN'T below bash anymore 00:14 < jml2> bnason, to be on the safe side, also update initrd... 00:14 < jml2> bnason, (after you chroot) 00:14 < heiler> and 96% cpu 00:14 * antichri|st facepalms 00:15 < Psi-Jack> Well, Emby's gotten better. But, the webui still has issues. :/ 00:16 < jml2> bnason, I know my mdadm.conf file has members listed, if there's something like that with lvm, you'll want to ensure it is still intact, and any "labels" you've set are reflected/updated in the new lv 00:16 < heiler> I read somewhere when a sub-process's parent is gone, in some scenarios it's adopted by systemd and that's what's happening 00:17 < Psi-Jack> And of course, there's no decent Emby client. Kodi sucks and is designed for a TV not a computer. heh 00:17 < Psilocyber> how do i decode this mpt3sas_cm0: log_info(0x31120303): originator(PL), code(0x12), sub_code(0x0303) 00:17 < jml2> bnason, iirc the boot-line highly regards the lv name... so make sure it reflects the same as the new lv.. 00:17 < bnason> looks like updating grub has root=/dev/mapper/lvg-root2 but rd.lvm.lv=lvg/root instead of root2 00:17 < heiler> g9G6g9gG96 koala_man https://pastebin.com/BW4JRMPN 00:18 < bnason> not sure where that is coming from though 00:18 < jml2> bnason, ok.. so update that.. 00:18 < stevendale> Kamikaze 00:18 < bnason> jml2, grub2-mkconfig generated that, so im assumign its pulling it from somewhere 00:18 < jml2> bnason, that comes from the grub.cfg .. 00:18 < bnason> but grub2-mkconfig is what generates grub.cfg lol 00:18 < koala_man> heiler: yes, whenever a process's parent exits, pid 1 (init or systemd) will become the new parent 00:18 < jml2> bnason, yeah so you'll need to find out what is doing that.. 00:19 < heiler> koala_man and there's no way to just kill it, then? :/ 00:19 < heiler> it would be a nice solution 00:20 < jml2> bnason, you can force a way for lvm to go offline for /lvg/root ... 00:20 < jml2> bnason, not just unmap but also have its lvm partitions completely off as well.. 00:20 < bnason> jml2, i think its coming from /etc/default/grub 00:20 < jml2> bnason, well yeah you never edited that file? 00:20 < bnason> yup that fixed it 00:21 < jml2> bnason, that's what I meant to update grub 00:21 < bnason> <-- newb 00:21 < koala_man> heiler: shell exit traps should run 00:21 < heiler> koala_man what do you mean by it? 00:21 < jml2> bnason, its ok to be noob, but it is much better you learn something than a catch-22 I see here today :) 00:22 < bnason> agreed :D 00:22 < jml2> bnason, btw that's not easy what you're doing, so you should be proud of yourself :) 00:22 < koala_man> heiler: bash can run code on signals and other events. exit is such an event 00:22 < jml2> bnason, most people can't do that... 00:22 < bnason> i mean im not technically a noob.. i just don't do this kinda config.. like ever lol 00:23 < jml2> bnason, if you can do that, you can easily clone anything from VM disks, and turn them into physical installs with much ease.. 00:23 < bnason> would have probably been easier to rebuild the system lol 00:23 < jml2> bnason, which I did again with a ubuntumate system couple days ago 00:23 < jml2> bnason, to clonse files, it is easiest to use "cp -xaP /source/. /target/ " 00:24 < bnason> i had to use rsync as I needed to ignore /tmp /dev /boot etc 00:24 < jml2> bnason, there are basic dev files you shoudl populate with MAKEDEV -- like /dev/null could be missing :) 00:24 < jml2> bnason, (as well as /dev/zero) -- i dont think udev populates these.. 00:24 < mawk> cp --one-file-system 00:25 < lordvadr> I just found out that, using clone(2), that you can get two processes that share the same PID, but don't share the same VM. I don't know if that's useful, or stupid, or dangerous, or what exactly. 00:25 < jml2> bnason, so its ok to even replicate /dev/ ... you shouldn't replicate /proc --- you should be doing the replication offline... 00:25 < mawk> udev populates them, yes 00:25 < mawk> you mean using CLONE_PID lordvadr ? 00:26 < mawk> that disappeared in linux 2.5.16 00:26 < lordvadr> mawk: CLONE_PID has been ignored for a while now. 00:26 < mawk> ah 00:26 < bnason> jml2, ive successfully booted up thanks :D 00:26 < bnason> not to see how I can finagle the rest of this config 00:26 < lordvadr> mawk: That's what I'm getting at. You can CLONE_THREAD but not CLONE_VM (and all the other spaces, like IO, files, sems, etc). 00:27 < jml2> bnason, easy peasy .. i'm guessing it took you a while :) 00:27 < jml2> bnason, like at least a couple of days XD 00:27 < bnason> about an hour or so 00:28 < mawk> you actually tried to do it lordvadr ? 00:28 < jml2> bnason, but how long you've been using linux? 00:28 < mawk> it seems a fun thing 00:28 < jml2> bnason, quite some time.. you're not 100% noobie 00:28 < jml2> bnason, like noobie choobie 00:28 < bnason> jml2, oh uhm... 20 years? lol... but not really sysadmin type stuff. Thats all new to me 00:28 < g9G6g9gG96> lordvadr: does it actually share pid's or just affects the return value of getpid() 00:28 < Psi-Jack> Ugh. Kodi is just... so bad... 00:29 < jml2> bnason, dm hasn't been around for that long... 00:29 < Slayerduck> I'm trying to force my SSD's into 3.0 speed because the server backplane sometimes cuts out due to link power or something. libata.force=3.0 inside grub config always used to work but now it doesn't look like adding it does anything, why ;/? 00:29 < bnason> dm? 00:29 < mawk> no lordvadr there's a dependency on CLONE_VM if you use CLONE_THREAD actually 00:29 < jml2> bnason, so even if you've been using linux for this long, lvm/dm-2 hasn't been around for as long as that... 00:29 < mawk> CLONE_THREAD depends on CLONE_SIGHAND which depends on CLONE_VM 00:30 < bnason> oh yea, lvm is 100% brand new to me 00:30 < jml2> bnason, still you need to know lvm pretty well.. 00:30 < jml2> bnason, well you're lucky because lvm has gotten much easier to use over time :) 00:30 < lordvadr> g9G6g9gG96: I don't know how to answer that. How would you determine it didn't share a pid except for getpid? 00:30 < bnason> yay lol 00:30 < jml2> bnason, and the rescue-login auto-mounts --bind /dev for you, so that you don't have to... 00:31 < mawk> lordvadr: if you use the raw clone syscall, getpid returns the old pid 00:31 < mawk> and you have a different one 00:31 < bnason> jml2, oh yea that was nice, only had to chroot basically 00:31 < bnason> it even auto detected 2 root partitions and let me choose which to auto mount 00:32 < lordvadr> mawk: I'll keep playting with it. Another thing I find interesting is that you have to CLONE_SIGHAND to get stdout/err to work correctly and I don't quite understand that. 00:32 < mawk> if it's a terminal ? 00:32 < mawk> or even for a pipe 00:32 < lordvadr> mawk: Also, I think you're right. It was clone_vm|clone_thread. 00:32 < lordvadr> mawk: Just a printf in the new process doesn't work if you don't clone_sighand 00:33 < lordvadr> Which I find interesting. 00:33 < jml2> bnason, if you're good at this, you could also use "e2image" and clone the uuid, but that creates more confusion -- you'll have to use a resize2fs on target lv, and you'll need to keep close track of which is the "newer" filesystem (you'll want to wipe out the older uuid as well before updating grub) 00:33 < mawk> for a terminal I can understand, tty will try to prevent your from writing or reading if you're not in the foreground on the tty 00:33 < jml2> bnason, this way you don't need to edit /etc/fstab 00:33 < lordvadr> Fine, but what do signals have to do with that, mawk? 00:33 < mawk> tty send you SIGTTOU if you try to write without being in the foreground process group 00:34 < mawk> and SIGTTIN if you read from stdin 00:34 < mawk> if the TOSTOP termios attribute is set 00:34 < lordvadr> I'll look into that. Both of those mention, "for background process". 00:35 < mawk> yes 00:35 < lordvadr> IIRC i could still write(1,...) and get it out though. 00:35 < mawk> you can block SIGTTOU, and TOSTOP isn't always enabled in the tty 00:35 < mawk> what exactly happened when you tried to write ? 00:35 < mawk> let me try 00:36 < R0b0t1> Is there any way to reload the console keymap while the machine is running? 00:36 < mawk> you used the real clone call ? or the lame glibc wrapper which forces you to mess with the stack 00:36 < R0b0t1> I.e. the files in /usr/share/keymaps 00:36 < lordvadr> I used the glibc clone. 00:36 < g9G6g9gG96> lordvadr: you using < linux-2.5.35 ? 00:36 < bnason> jml2, interesting 00:37 < lordvadr> g9G6g9gG96: NegativeLinux me 4.15.15-300.fc27.x86_64 #1 SMP Mon Apr 2 23:14:02 UTC 2018 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux 00:37 < jml2> bnason, fwiw there's something called "Boot-repair iso" if you ever get stuck trying to fix grub ... 00:38 < jml2> bnason, for all other cases I tell users to just use this tool and be done with fixing grub problems XD 00:38 < mawk> what clone call did you use exactly then lordvadr ? 00:38 < bnason> nice 00:38 < jml2> bnason, you also could of used this to fix the issue XD 00:38 < mawk> if you can't specify CLONE_THREAD or anything, you just used the 0 flag ? 00:38 < jml2> bnason, lol :p 00:38 < mawk> which amounts to a plain fork, not taking into account the futex manipulations of glibc 00:38 < lordvadr> mawk: CLONE_THREAD|CLONE_SIGHAND 00:38 < jml2> bnason, but it's a hog download of 600megs when it really should be much less than that 00:39 < lordvadr> I was playing, so I may not recall correctly 00:39 < jml2> bnason, actually i would be wrong I Think because you still needed to fix /etc/default/grub 00:39 < mawk> I see 00:39 < bnason> ah yea probably 00:39 < mawk> so without CLONE_FILES you had a copy of the file descriptor table 00:39 < jml2> bnason, but say the boot partition or bios-mbr got grub's stage1 damaged, you could use that boot-repair iso tool 00:40 < lordvadr> mawk: Yeah, but do CLONE_FILES and not CLONE_SIGHAND and try a printf. 00:40 < lordvadr> Then do write(1,"foo\n", 4); 00:42 < jml2> bnason, dunno if other distros are adding it to their installer iso -- i know ubuntu has added it like 3 editions ago.. 00:42 < lordvadr> mawk: It's fuckin' weird, isn't it. 00:42 < bnason> would be nice 00:42 < jml2> bnason, it's a good tool because often users want to do a dual-boot with something else and occiassionally need to fix grub 00:42 < jml2> bnason, works for mbr-bios and efi (has 32-bit and 64-bit downloads separately) 00:42 < mawk> what stack size did you use lordvadr ? 00:43 < jml2> bnason, when I tested it couple years ago, it worked fixing all the mainstream distros... so i know its pretty good 00:43 < lordvadr> global var, unsigned char foo[1048576]. 00:43 < jml2> bnason, it also has a paste-bin option on its boot for posting system's partition outline which is helpful for diagnosing on forums... 00:46 < lordvadr> mawk: Weird, isn't it? 00:47 < jml2> lordvadr, there's also TRUMP_SIGHAND... if you want to brute-force your solution 00:47 < jml2> lordvadr, lol 00:47 < lordvadr> where is TRUMP_SIGHAND defined? 00:47 < jml2> lordvadr, in dah mofo whitehouse XD 00:48 < lordvadr> I'm not trying to solve anything...god dammit 00:48 < jml2> lordvadr, no but america is :) 00:48 * jml2 is in Canada :P 00:48 < Psi-Jack> Eh? 00:48 < mawk> yeah lordvadr 00:48 < lordvadr> I'm not trying to solve anything, I was just playing with clone and some things tend to not make a lot of sense. 00:48 < bnason> jml2, does LVM have any concept of where the volumes are on the disk? IE i've now removed my original root, do I need move the new root to the beginning of the vg? 00:48 < jml2> woo woo! 00:49 < bnason> I want to use all space for a new volume, but id imagine the new root is right in the middle of the drive so itd split it into 2 00:49 < jml2> bnason, it's a dm-2 chain of things -- dm2- is part of the kernel, I suppose the module auto-spots lv partitions and then immediately makes /dev/mapper/* things.. 00:50 < jml2> bnason, dm2 supports virtual containers -- so you can have complex containers like encrypted volumes.. 00:51 < jml2> bnason, anything with dm-2 gets a virtual device node in /dev/mapper 00:51 < jml2> bnason, your device mountpoints are those things in /dev/mapper.... 00:52 < Psi-Jack> Nope… Emby fail. Not happenin. 00:52 < Psi-Jack> Plex uses a lot less memory, CPU resources, and does things… Reliably. Emby is unreliable, uses a crapload of memory, tries to use the CPU but only utilizes a single core of 4, but then during playback, stops, pegs the CPU with 4-6 stray ffmpeg processes that aren’t even doing anything because the playback has already completely stopped and the UI playing it gone. 00:52 < jml2> bnason, rather than considering things like /dev/sda1 your "mountpoints"... 00:53 < jml2> bnason, the best documentation for this is from redhat's documentation (they're the ones building it) 00:53 < jml2> bnason, (which you probably already know by now) 00:55 < jml2> Psi-Jack, udev is also a resourcehog, thta's why i need to modify its systemd unit to be less intensive on my cpu :p 00:55 < Psi-Jack> Eh? No, it's not. :p 00:56 < jml2> Psi-Jack, which I do->CPUWeight=5 under [Service] :p 00:56 < jml2> Psi-Jack, that's just one of my many optimizations for kernel/sysctl and systemd services :p 00:56 < Psi-Jack> "optimizations" 00:56 < jml2> Psi-Jack, udev sucks :p 00:57 < Psi-Jack> I mean, there's a few things I can say about systemd and udev, but sucks is definitely not one of them. 00:57 < jml2> Psi-Jack, it's even safe to disable udev if its no longer being used ... 00:57 < lordvadr> jml2: udev tells me it doesn't like you all that much either. 00:58 < jml2> I have toyed with rcu tweaks here and I get it that there's practically no tutorial on how to optimize this online... 00:58 < triceratux> theres nothing wrong with udev that isnt wrong with polkit, gvfs, & dbus as well 00:58 < uplime> so what you're saying is, all software kind of sucks 00:59 < jml2> uplime, probably 00:59 * lordvadr agrees 00:59 < jml2> uplime, Torvalds is never happy with his kernel, he's kinda like me.. 00:59 < jml2> uplime, stubborn and arrogant :) 00:59 < jml2> uplime, more so than the Psi-Jack :) 00:59 < uplime> hey cool 01:00 < Psi-Jack> s/arrogant/ignorant/ :) 01:00 < uplime> we finally agree on something 01:00 * Psi-Jack ducks. 01:00 < uplime> :} 01:00 < lordvadr> Fully aware of the sorry-ass state of everything not 40 years old. 01:00 < jml2> uplime, and more so than triceratux's systemd-resolver... he likes to use crappy dns like dnsmasq :) 01:00 < Psi-Jack> Well, I'm somewhat arrogant, but extremely knowledgeable. 01:01 * Psi-Jack pets his dnsmasq resolver. 01:01 < uplime> except when it comes to {} 01:01 < uplime> :} 01:01 < Psi-Jack> One thing I definitely appreciate. dnsmasq, and it's caching and ability to UN-do my ISP's stupid nxdomain replies. 01:01 < Psi-Jack> its* 01:02 < jml2> yeah it does that... that looks like a good use case.. 01:02 < uplime> im tempted to setup a vps and just vpn into it, and use that for all of my dns lookups 01:02 < lordvadr> dnsmasq is a great example of a software guy writing network software that doesn't understand how networks work. 01:02 < Psi-Jack> uplime: VPS is a bling word for marketting, not actually a "thing" 01:02 < jml2> here I wanted to use it because something in my local webserver was doing a PTR lookup- and NSS /etc/hosts doesn't provide PTR :) 01:02 < uplime> Psi-Jack: vm/whatever you want to call it 01:02 < jml2> dnsmasq makes it so easy to setup a ptr record.. 01:03 < Psi-Jack> uplime: Depends. Container? Virtual Machine? Chroot? 01:03 < uplime> Psi-Jack: guess it depends on the vendor? 01:03 < lordvadr> jml2: Your doing that wrong. 01:03 < jml2> two lines, address= and ptr= rather than setting up complete dns records as with bind.. 01:03 < uplime> i just say vps as a blanket term 01:03 < Psi-Jack> Depends on the software/technology used, absolutely. 01:03 < Psi-Jack> uplime: VPS is a bling word for marketting, not actually a "thing" 01:03 < jml2> lordvadr, for a "local" machine" ? lol.. 01:03 < Psi-Jack> uplime: VPS is a bling word for marketting, not actually a "thing":) 01:03 < Psi-Jack> Err, :) 01:03 < jml2> lordvadr, this is not a production system.. 01:03 < uplime> Psi-Jack: its a convenient word to use though! 01:03 < uplime> since most people have a rough-ish idea 01:04 < Psi-Jack> When someone says VPS, I think, "Oh no, another crappy service provider" 01:04 < lordvadr> jml2: lol, no kidding? 01:05 < uplime> Psi-Jack: have you seen vultr? they're a pretty decent provider 01:05 < uplime> great uptime, great virtualization, lots of customization 01:05 < Psi-Jack> I use Vultr, actually. 01:05 < uplime> nice 01:05 < jml2> lordvadr, I have a chained master(localhost)-master/slavea-slave(remote public ip) to replicate my database so I can set the final slave as "read-only" with replication. 01:05 < Psi-Jack> Sometimes their instances just "stop", without warning, but never had an issue. I have a referral link to them if you're interested in checking them out. 01:06 < jml2> lordvadr, I simply do my blogging on the localhost and never worry about having any corruption remotely. 01:06 < Psi-Jack> Never had /much/ of an issue, besides the random stopping of my instance I run there. ;) 01:06 < uplime> i haven't had that yet luckily 01:06 < jml2> lordvadr, beat that! :p 01:06 < Psi-Jack> Ahhh you already use them? 01:06 < lordvadr> jml2: I publish my blog to /dev/null. 01:07 < jml2> lordvadr, you publish /dev/zero! 01:07 < uplime> Psi-Jack: yeah. I've got 5 or 6 servers with them right now 01:07 < jml2> lordvadr, but I have to say wordpress is without its problems. 01:07 < lordvadr> jml2: I didn't say that. Don't put words in my mouth! 01:07 < jml2> lordvadr, still gest the job done 01:07 < Psi-Jack> Heh, I have 1. It runs my FidoNet FTN HUB. :) 01:07 < uplime> my general irc/webserver, a webserver similar to s3, a testnet for irc, and 2 dns servers 01:07 < Psi-Jack> On spinning disk. heh 01:07 < uplime> nice 01:08 < Psi-Jack> Most of my stuff runs in AWS. 01:08 < uplime> s/similar to s3/similar in purpose to s3/ 01:08 < uplime> yeah im looking to migrate to aws 01:08 < uplime> I just started working on my solutions architect cert 01:08 < jml2> uplime, architect? that's a little too advanced for you XD 01:08 < Psi-Jack> I'm a DevOps Engineer certified. 01:08 < uplime> it is right now actually! 01:08 < uplime> Psi-Jack: nice. I was considering that one 01:09 < uplime> I'm not quite sure if I want to get it, but i haven't ruled it out yet 01:09 < jml2> uplime, he slept with a chick with a redhat 01:09 < Psi-Jack> uplime: You have to get the SysOps Administrator first. That's the primary one for that tier. 01:09 < lordvadr> Psi-Jack: Does that include jboss? 01:09 < uplime> sysops and developer right? 01:09 < jml2> uplime, that's how he got his certification 01:09 < uplime> jml2: hey whatever works 01:09 < jml2> lol 01:09 < Psi-Jack> Solutions Architect is more for people working with customers and describing AWS to them in a way they can understand. 01:09 < uplime> ah so like a consultant 01:09 < Psi-Jack> uplime: Developer is on the developer tier, not the engineering tier. 01:10 < lordvadr> uplime: easy there 01:10 < uplime> Psi-Jack: ah ok that makes sense 01:10 < Psi-Jack> lordvadr: What? 01:10 < Psi-Jack> uplime: Pretty much it's simply: SysOps -> DevOps. 01:10 < uplime> i'd like to continue this conversation, but NOC is about to knock out the internet for update, so I'll have to talk to you later 01:10 < lordvadr> Psi-Jack: You mentioned DevOps. I was asking if that meant java. 01:10 < jml2> uplime, there's lots of forgery in "consultancy" XD 01:11 < Psi-Jack> On what planet does "DevOps" ever relate to Java? 01:11 < jml2> java is pretty powerful I like it... I want to get into more jcr and front-end boiler plates with it.. 01:11 < lordvadr> Oh shit, where I'm at now, that's all it is. It's all jboss. I get to ignore that for the most part, but it's what most of the consumers use. 01:11 < jml2> Psi-Jack, and that's why you can't know everything :) java is good! 01:12 < Psi-Jack> jml2 just lost 50,000 karma. Now he's -1,000,000,000 01:12 < jml2> lordvadr, I'm starting to use more eclipse... great ide, its not just for java (i'm using it with c/c++) 01:13 < lordvadr> jml2: I hate java, and refuse to code in it. I told Red Hat that if I was required to write java code, I'd quit. 01:13 < jml2> Psi-Jack, you never looked into jcr/boiler-plates ... perl/php/python don't have something as robust and mandated... this is why java application servlets really thrive.. 01:13 < lordvadr> But, for some reason, jboss is what every thick-accented user wants to use. 01:13 < Psi-Jack> lordvadr: Oh snap. you work at Red Hat? Heh. I'd thought about working there, as they did have a few offers when I was looking, but I ended up not. 01:14 < lordvadr> Psi-Jack: I told them "no" about 4 years ago. After taking the job, I wish I had done it 15 years ago. 01:15 < Psi-Jack> No, in what respect? 01:15 < jml2> Psi-Jack, remember, redhat exists because of a smart little canadian.. he just so happens to be a relative of mine.. 01:15 < lordvadr> I wanted 90 days to ease out my friend and current employer. They wanted "now." 01:16 < lordvadr> then-current 01:16 < xamithan> 90 days? wow 01:16 < lordvadr> He was my friend and paid me very well 01:16 < jml2> redhat is always expanding their training across the globe. 01:16 < lordvadr> That we are 01:16 < xamithan> redhat just never has any good jobs open 01:16 < jml2> there needs to be more in my area.. only 1 testing station here which came not so long ago 01:17 < xamithan> Well I lie a bit, they do but they are gone instantly 01:17 < lordvadr> xamithan: If you're decent, I can get you a job offer next week. 01:17 < Psi-Jack> Heh. 01:17 < xamithan> I don't know about decent, but I got the RHCE 01:17 < xamithan> Close to the HQ too 01:17 < lordvadr> xamithan: Nice. I just took that exam. It's bullshit but its also hard. 01:18 < lordvadr> xamithan: What do you want to do? 01:18 < Psi-Jack> lordvadr : yeah when I was looking I was looking with relocation from Florida to the Raleigh office. 01:18 < xamithan> I want that system admin job that is only open to internal hires O.o 01:18 < jml2> lordvadr, funny aren't those exams hands-on ? 01:18 < lordvadr> Psi-Jack: I was supposed to move to Chicago, but I didn't have to move a pebble. 01:18 < Psi-Jack> lordvadr: Would've been a PITA with selling the house. 01:19 < bls> ...and you'd have to live in North Carolina :P 01:19 < lordvadr> jml2: They are, but you also don't have any official documentation. 01:19 < lordvadr> bls: You certainly don't. I live in central Illinois. 01:20 < Psi-Jack> bls well NC I only hear good things about. And their driving test is available in japanese. 01:20 < jml2> lordvadr, yeah i know about it, i know about the ex200 and beginners test for rhcsa , so I suppose the others are hands-on as well.. 01:20 < lordvadr> Psi-Jack: If you like airplanes, you can work for redhat from anywhere. 01:20 < jml2> lordvadr, (without access to internet of course-- that would be too easy) 01:20 < xamithan> beginners test for rhcsa ? 01:21 < jml2> xamithan, you have to work up to rhce 01:21 < jml2> xamithan, which you claimed you have.. 01:21 < jml2> lol 01:21 < jml2> (there's pre-requisites :) 01:21 < lordvadr> jml2: Yeah, nobody indexes that crap in their heads anymore. But I recognize how do you do a reasonable exam in the first place. 01:21 < xamithan> but you said beginners test, like there is a test before that 01:21 < Psi-Jack> lordvadr: I spent enough time on airplanes in the Army and seeing my wife in Japan. LOL 01:21 < lordvadr> I ended up writing an httpd.conf from scratch on my RHCSA. 01:21 < xamithan> And you can take the RHCE without taking the RHCSA, you just don't earn it 01:21 < jml2> xamithan, ahem 01:22 < ananke> there used to be RHCT, a step below RCHE. not sure if that's still a thing 01:22 < jml2> and I'm an American Astronaut :) 01:22 < xamithan> RHCSA is the RHCT 01:22 < jml2> except that I'm simulating a moon landing :) 01:22 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, RHCSA is what the RHCT was 01:22 < xamithan> They changed the name about 8 years ago 01:22 < lordvadr> RHCT was (as I understand) below the RHCSA 01:23 < ananke> RHCT was almost a consolation prize for those who didn't pass RHCE 01:24 < djph> jml2: oh you're on the soundstage at Area 51? 01:24 < lordvadr> But the RHCE isn't a difficult exam to pass. I took both the RHCSA and the RHCE essentially unstudied. RHCE was a barely-pass, but a pass. 01:24 < jml2> djph, no I'm an Asstronaut like xamithan 01:24 < jml2> djph, with a fakeass moonlanding!! 01:24 * lordvadr wants to be an astronaut 01:24 < djph> heh 01:24 < stevendale> I grew an inch in a month 01:24 < ananke> lordvadr: RHCE used to be a three part exam. I hear it's only two parter now 01:25 < Psi-Jack> Heh, I didn't even study for either of them and passed with flying colors for both. Having lots of knowledge and experience though since 15+ years helped. 01:25 * revel wants to be a cosmonaut 01:25 < lordvadr> ananke: It's just a 4-hour exam, 20 "tasks". 01:25 < stevendale> Doctor says I won't stop growing till I am 7 feet OwO 01:25 < jim> you want to read women's magazines?! 01:25 < Psi-Jack> Though, I haven't done any of the exams since EL7. 01:26 < ananke> lordvadr: when I took it the exam was three parts: written part, 'make X, Y, Z work' part, and 'this is broken, fix it' part 01:26 * stevendale goes back to Windows stuff 01:26 < lordvadr> Psi-Jack: Yeah, 20 years experience helped a lot. But, like, really, who kerberizes NFS these days. 01:26 < Psi-Jack> I don't, But I still know how to. 01:26 < stevendale> When was the last time everybody in here defragmented an ext* partition? 01:26 < djph> never 01:27 < ananke> stevendale: do you also groom your fish? 01:27 < lordvadr> ananke: Now, it's here's 2 vm's. X is broke, Y doesn't work right, and Z needs to be configured. 01:27 < stevendale> ananke, No 01:27 < triceratux> zomg theres an xubuntu 18.04 iso on the server ftw http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/18.04/release/ 01:27 < Psi-Jack> stevendale: Never. There's no actual tool to do this with, unlike with xfs which can do it, and do so online as needed, wich is rare. 01:27 < ananke> lordvadr: interesting 01:27 < stevendale> Um Psi-Jack 01:27 < stevendale> There is 01:27 < stevendale> e4defrag 01:28 < jim> stevendale, ext* filesystems generally keep themselves defragged 01:28 < Psi-Jack> That's not even part of e2fsutils, and all it does is read a file, write a file, next. 01:28 < lordvadr> ananke: But, the questions are a little tricky. Like, when figuring out CGI, is the script broken, or the daemon? And you don't speak that language, so how do you really tell? 01:29 < lordvadr> And yeah, setup xyz samba...with some feature you've just now heard about. But is completely described in the man page. 01:29 < lordvadr> And still doesn't work. 01:29 < aBound> triceratux: I wonder how many bugs are in the official release. :P 01:30 < ananke> hmm, I should get my employer to pay for RHCA 01:31 < lordvadr> ananke: If you want a recommendation for a job, I'll give you one. 01:31 < lordvadr> We get all the exams for free (obviously). 01:31 < aBound> Woo, recommendations. 01:32 < Psi-Jack> ananke: Heh, few years ago, I had an employer offer to (they didn't even know the RHCSA was required to get the RHCE), but, the problem was. The company didn't even use RH or EL anywhere but in 3 servers, out of many many Ubuntu ones. 01:32 < jml2> Psi-Jack, that's exotic 01:33 < jml2> Psi-Jack, probably smart.. ubuntu got rid of its certification some time ago... too many morons are using this distribution :) 01:33 < Psi-Jack> It was a sinking ship though. Company was downgrading from Linux to Windows, and I saw it 6 months in advance what was going to happen, sure enough, they sunk. 01:33 < ananke> lordvadr: I've considered redhat before, but I like benefits of working for state gov't. not to mention, I prefer upward movement rather than lateral. though I have to say, all the redhat employees I've been in contact with have always been very nice 01:34 < aBound> Psi-Jack: Why oh why, didn't they keep using Linux (terrible, terrible). :P 01:34 < Psi-Jack> ananke: A lot of them are. Not all though. :) 01:34 < aBound> Teehee. 01:34 < Psilocyber> Would someone mind trying to curl a ftp link for me? trying to troubleshoot an ftp issue. 01:34 < ananke> Psi-Jack: but I was talking about RHCA not RHCSA :) 01:34 < Psi-Jack> aBound: Worse. They /outsourced/ their engineering team... 01:34 * aBound says to Psi-Jack noooo...cuts to commercial :P 01:35 < aBound> That's crazy. 01:35 < Psi-Jack> aBound: I'd left 3 months before they fired the entire engineering team (of 3 after I left). heh 01:35 < jml2> ananke, so YOU like java... 01:35 < Psi-Jack> What was funny is that... I went to a company on the floor below that one. :) 01:35 < aBound> Psi-Jack: Smart man, you knew things would eventually change. 01:35 < jml2> "A Red Hat® Certified Architect (RHCA) is a Red Hat Certified Engineer (RHCE®) or Red Hat Certified JBoss® Developer " XD 01:36 < jml2> jboss jboss.. java java 01:36 < Psi-Jack> aBound: I usually see big changes well enough in advance. :) 01:36 < aBound> Got out of that hot kitchen. 01:36 < aBound> :) 01:36 < jml2> aBound, hell's kitchen with ramsay 01:36 < jml2> aBound, f* f* f*! 01:36 < Psi-Jack> The only one I didn't see so easily was the one earlier this year, end of last year. 01:36 < Psilocyber> Would someone mind trying if this ftp curl works? curl ftp://ftp.supermicro.com/Bios/softfiles/4812/REDFISH_X10_366.zip -o REDFISH_X10_366.zip 01:37 < aBound> jml2: Kitchen Nightmares I thought was much better. 01:37 < Psi-Jack> Course, I'm about to engage in legal battle with them, and I'm going to win. :) 01:37 < jml2> aBound, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjy_FKODsTM :p 01:37 < Psilocyber> I get error 426 on my work network, it crashes Firefox if i try to download it too 01:37 < mawk> it looks like it works Psilocyber 01:37 < Psilocyber> chrome works for me only 01:37 < mawk> so you can download it ? 01:37 < mawk> or you want me to upload it somewhere else 01:38 < mawk> what size is it ? 01:38 < jml2> Psilocyber, https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Status/426 << http/3.0 01:38 < aBound> jml2: Dang I never knew he did that on the TV show. 01:38 < jml2> Psilocyber, what server is that? 01:38 < Psilocyber> ~26MB 01:39 < Psilocyber> jml2 what do you mean which server 01:39 < aBound> Psi-Jack: Winner, winner chicken dinner. 01:39 < Psilocyber> i just got curious because it only works in chrome 01:39 < Psilocyber> but if i connect to my VPN, I can download it from curl or from firefox 01:39 < Psilocyber> and this only happens at certain times of day 01:39 < jml2> Psilocyber, "HTTP/3.0" is mentioned on that link i provided.. 01:40 < mawk> it's just an example text 01:40 < jml2> Psilocyber, must be experimental.. 01:40 < mawk> http/3.0 isn't a thing 01:40 < mawk> it's a status code from http 1.1 01:40 < Psilocyber> curl: (18) server did not report OK, got 426 01:40 < mawk> your workplace has a transparent proxy that messes with FTP likely Psilocyber 01:40 < jml2> Psilocyber, sounds like either the server is using experimental things vs confusion by the client lol 01:40 < Psilocyber> its weird because it happens only at certain times of day on certain days 01:41 * jml2 cant wait for HTTP/4.0 XD 01:41 < jml2> Psilocyber, beyond 1.1, there's still kinks ... 01:42 < Psilocyber> "This service requires use of the HTTP/3.0 protocol" they mean on client side? 01:43 < jml2> lol 01:43 < lupine> well, you'd want it on both sides 01:43 < jml2> lupine, more looney! more more!! LOL 01:44 < Psilocyber> no plz no more looney 01:44 < jim> looney ballooney 01:44 * jml2 is away -- has to fix some ** :) 01:45 < Psi-Jack> Psilocyber: "please" not "plz" for future self corrections. :) 01:45 < Psilocyber> of course, how silly of me :P 01:45 < lupine> plz no 01:45 < Psilocyber> you heathen 01:45 < lupine> prescriptivism 01:45 < Psi-Jack> lupine: You too. 01:49 < Psi-Jack> Haha! Nice! I just noticed in #bash, "away"|"afk" nicks result in an auto-kick. #bash ++ 01:51 < jim> lupine, please expand plz 01:52 < lupine> it's a position in linguistics 01:53 < Psi-Jack> A subset that is not accepted here. 01:53 < Psi-Jack> Further details provided in the channel website listed in the topic. 01:56 < ryouma> i use a wm (fluxbox). therefore, when i run deluge and delete, it does not go to a trash folder. is it possible to set that up? 01:56 < ryouma> um, i mean, i do not use a de 01:56 < Psi-Jack> Heh. Fluxbox and deluge have nothing in common. 01:57 < ryouma> right. but it's annoying that you can take tab a and put it in slot b. deluge has a trash folder capability when run under a de, right? 01:57 < ryouma> can't* 01:57 < Psi-Jack> And Deluge's delete operation, doesn't care about the ~/.Trash directory itself. 01:57 < ryouma> what do y9ou mean? 01:58 < Psi-Jack> ryouma: No, it doesn't. It's DE independant. 01:58 < ryouma> does deluge not send to trash? 01:58 < Psi-Jack> No. 01:58 < ryouma> oh sucky 01:58 < ryouma> never mind then 01:58 < Psi-Jack> Like I said, no relation. :) 01:58 < ryouma> don't all applications send to trash? guess not. :( 01:58 < Psi-Jack> No 01:59 < Psi-Jack> Not even "rm" sends to trash, but you can alias rm with safe-rm which sends things to ~/.Trash 01:59 < ryouma> does deluge use rm? 01:59 < Psi-Jack> Course, you have to install safe-rm to get this. :) 01:59 < Psi-Jack> No. 01:59 < ryouma> i suppose i could use ld library whatever to create my own libc or so. but that sounds really annoying. 01:59 < Psi-Jack> No. 01:59 < ryouma> or maybe it calls a syscall 02:00 < Psi-Jack> unlink() 02:00 < ryouma> ok i will stick with moving and then deleting torrent 02:00 < Psi-Jack> Or just not use torrents. :p 02:01 < aBound> Swoosh... 02:02 < jml2> i recall there was an opensource project i saw somewhere awhile ago dunno where, it supports .Trash.. 02:03 < ryouma> i'm old-fashioned 02:05 < Psilocyber> out with the old and in with the older 02:05 < stevendale> :P 02:06 < stevendale> Psilocyber, You'll be pleased to hear I use Windows XP on a daily basis 02:06 < Psilocyber> ill take it over windows 8/10 :P 02:08 < ryouma> swoosh? 02:08 < jml2> with spectre and mass-attacks it should be easy to deliver a dangerous payload on xp.. 02:09 < ||JD||> I hope you enjoy using an OS that stopped being patched years ago 02:09 < revel> Actually, it got a patch just recently. 02:09 < jml2> even OS, old hardware is susceptible to spectre.. 02:09 < antichri|st> windows FLP is the best OS 02:09 < ryouma> are spectre and the other one remotely exploitable? 02:10 < dell00> Microsoft Bob is the best os, antichrilst. 02:10 < jml2> ryouma, yes.. it's a side-channel attack.. 02:10 < antichri|st> through javascript ryouma 02:10 < stevendale> Through Javascript, yes ryouma 02:10 < antichri|st> snap stevendale 02:10 < jml2> ryouma, affects everything.. 02:10 < ryouma> huh. what is a side-channel attack? glad i don't run js. 02:10 < jml2> ryouma, not just js, it was given as an example.. 02:10 < meyou> they just need some way to run unpriv'd code on your machne 02:10 < antichri|st> always a good measure in general to have a script blocker in your browser, not just for spectre but for mining scripts, and other stuff 02:10 < meyou> JS is a common way 02:10 < ryouma> ah 02:11 < ryouma> i see you could do almost anything then 02:11 < jml2> ryouma, generally any webbrowser on any OS platform running intel.. 02:11 < ryouma> is the world going to explode now? 02:11 < ryouma> what about amd? 02:11 < jml2> ryouma, geez you've been living under a rock for the past year! 02:11 < ryouma> yes 02:11 < jml2> ryouma, this news is as big as heartbleed. 02:11 < meyou> safety in numbers 02:11 < antichri|st> dell00: lmao @ microsoft bob xD 02:11 < meyou> your machine is just one of a few billion vulnerable ones 02:11 < meyou> nbd 02:11 < ryouma> that does not reassure :) 02:12 < antichri|st> shellshock was bad too 02:12 < antichri|st> i felt the shellshock, wont go into detail 02:12 < djph> spectre 02:12 < djph> heartbleed, rowhammer 02:13 < ryouma> shellshock really annoyed me 02:13 < antichri|st> rowhammer is very interesting 02:13 < antichri|st> in the hardware level sense of the exploit 02:13 < ryouma> does every big bug have a logo and a cute name now? 02:14 < jml2> ryouma, they certainly do have their own domain names :) 02:14 < jml2> ryouma, in order to prevent abuse from quick cashing scammers lol 02:14 < jml2> ryouma, blue borne is another big security news subject 02:14 < jml2> ryouma, affects all bluetooth things on both android and linux desktops.. 02:15 < ryouma> so will we have protection soon or are spectre and the other one not fixable? 02:15 < jml2> ryouma, and then there was the wifi-exploit , ... 02:15 < djph> krack 02:15 < ryouma> badusb annoys me bigtime too 02:15 < jml2> ryouma, there's cat test you can do on /proc/ -- for the latest kernels.. 02:15 < jml2> ryouma, was published a few months ago... 02:15 < antichri|st> ryouma: they have to be patched at the OS level/kernel, and indeed there are bug flags now for such things 02:15 < revel> ryouma: Don't quote me on this, but I think Meltdown's pretty much been mitigated. 02:16 < revel> antichri|st: Or microcode-level. 02:16 < jml2> microcode updates and kernel updates... 02:16 < ryouma> are governments invading one another as we speak? 02:16 < ryouma> i mean electronically' 02:16 < antichri|st> revel: requires more than microcode 02:16 < djph> of course 02:16 < antichri|st> but yeah 02:17 < jml2> ryouma, torvalds gave intel the finger 02:17 < antichri|st> ryouma: like if i do a cat /proc/cpuinfo, there is a field now "bugs : cpu_meltdown spectre_v1 spectre_v2" 02:17 < ryouma> i guess my next machine will be amd then? 02:17 < jml2> ryouma, rhetorically speaking XD 02:17 < jml2> ryouma, he spoke harsh on intel about this 02:17 < jml2> ryouma, amd is somewhat affected but intel is definitely hit hard by it 02:18 < revel> antichri|st: Because your CPU has those bugs. 02:18 < ryouma> oh taht means it /is/ vuln 02:18 < antichri|st> revel: no shit 02:18 < ryouma> i thought it meant patched for 02:18 < revel> Why bring it up then? 02:18 < jml2> antichri|st, if its there then it's used as a study, there is nothing more to it than to wait until fixes are rolled out over time.. 02:18 < jml2> antichri|st, what's suggested for browsers is their own ways about it for the "spectre" problem.. 02:19 < jml2> antichri|st, so here I had to modify my chrome and chromium to mitigate spectre 02:19 < revel> ryouma: No, it just indicates that the processor has those bugs. You can check whether they're mitigated in /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/ 02:19 < ryouma> i need a new computer anyway. mine is quite old and sound is fuzzy and using a new sound card does not fix it and i think speakers are not broken. but it takes me forever to do things. 02:20 < snugger> so...ubuntu 18.04 is here 02:20 < revel> ryouma: No new processor without Spectre/Meltdown is out. 02:20 < antichri|st> revel: indeed 02:20 < ryouma> revel: ah 02:20 < antichri|st> ryouma: run a 486 02:20 < ryouma> good reason for people not to get computers 02:21 < antichri|st> Mitigation: PTI 02:21 < antichri|st> Mitigation: OSB (observable speculation barrier, Intel v6) 02:21 < antichri|st> Mitigation: Full generic retpoline, IBPB (Intel v4) 02:21 < ryouma> aren't there riscs for linux? 02:21 < jml2> risks or risc chips? 02:21 < ryouma> latter 02:21 < antichri|st> (that was the output of cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/*) 02:22 < revel> No idea what the OSB thing is. 02:22 < jml2> antichri|st, yeah sounds more like it... not cpuinfo XD 02:22 < ryouma> i'm guessing if your processor is like 11yo then you have no firmware patches? 02:22 < antichri|st> i was just highlighting before that the /cat/proc/cpuinfo at least shows which bugs are known for the cpu 02:23 < antichri|st> though the /sys/ shows the mitigations 02:23 < Psi-Jack> There are no Risc's for Linux, though Linux supports Risc processors. 02:23 < revel> I've got "__user pointer sanitization" for spectre_v1 and "Full generic retpoline, IBPB, IBRS_FW" for spectre_v2 02:23 < djph> Observable Speculation Barrier is the actual name of either Spectre or Meltdown 02:23 < djph> always get them crossed up 02:23 < jml2> antichri|st, oh yeah it shows/reminds users in cpuinfo, but the suggested test is that directory which you pointed out.. 02:23 < revel> djph: Pretty sure that's the name of a Spectre mitigation method? 02:24 < jml2> antichri|st, the bugs: in cpuinfo will always be there if im correct 02:24 < revel> To put a "barrier" in front of "observable speculation"? 02:24 < ryouma> Psi-Jack: so we can just get risc desktops? do they exist? 02:24 < jml2> antichri|st, cpu_meltdown is a hardware defect... 02:24 < Psi-Jack> ryouma: Not so much anymore. 02:24 < antichri|st> jml2: yes, it is basically showing which "features" the CPU supports ;) in cpuinfo 02:24 < djph> revel: I meant that "OSB" was the actual *attack* that was commonly known as meltdown or spectre 02:24 < jml2> antichri|st, I once purchased an old laptop top years ago with the "pentium bug" -- and I had "pentium bug workaround" showing up in dmesg... 02:24 < Psi-Jack> ryouma: Old Mac PowerPC's were risc-based, after the m68k stuff. 02:25 < revel> djph: Really? The attack name includes barrier? 02:25 < ryouma> yeah but debian no longer supports 02:25 < ryouma> and if they don't then few distros do 02:25 < antichri|st> RISCOS is fun on a pi 02:25 < revel> I'm getting some results indicating it's a mitigation method... 02:25 < antichri|st> OSB is mitigation 02:26 < ryouma> i remember pentium bug 02:26 < revel> F00F? 02:26 < Psi-Jack> It's all about the Pentium baby! 02:26 < ryouma> intell dissed its consumers for wanting math that works 02:26 < djph> revel: yeah, the full vulnerability name was the "Observable Speculation Barrier", otherwise known as Spectre_v1 02:27 < revel> djph: Do you have anything to back that up? Since everything I'm seeing points to it being a mitigation method. 02:28 < djph> revel: the whole spectre attack was that you LOOKED at the CPU speculation, and you could cross the barrier 02:28 < revel> djph: I mean like a link or something, not just your word. 02:28 < revel> i.e a news article. 02:29 < djph> revel: I'm lookin for it, take your adderal and sit in a corner 02:30 < antichri|st> there are things in firmware blobs too which are not talked about much and mostly unkown, to do with power control, other things, but not sure if they allow for code execution other than bricking your laptop after detecting linux, etc 02:30 < antichri|st> i forget the name of it, i read it in an old magazine, i will find it 02:30 < jml2> antichri|st, yeah, it's called minix :) 02:30 < antichri|st> by firmware i mean the chip firmware, not a binary blob 02:31 < jml2> antichri|st, it runs the intel engine mangement chip :) 02:31 < antichri|st> jml2: no this is something else, going way back before IME 02:31 < antichri|st> i will dig through my old magazines, brb, but basically linux solution was to trick the chip into thinking it was windows 02:31 < jml2> antichri|st, the FSF gave intel crap about it, because it essentially bypasses efi key protection 02:31 < antichri|st> jml2: i am aware of IME, that is not what i am referring to 02:32 < antichri|st> i will get the old magazine brb 02:32 < jml2> antichri|st, no porn titties please 02:32 < revel> jml2: Are other kinds of titties fine? 02:32 < jml2> antichri|st, heffer died not longer... and playboy should be buried with him 02:33 < jml2> revel, I think he's digging through his star wars material.. 02:33 < jml2> revel, and saw a penguin from outer space XD 02:34 < jml2> little wookies 02:34 < jml2> waiting for sky walker to come back and rebel on our behalf.. 02:34 < jml2> and fight the evil Intel Empire!! 02:35 < djph> revel: hm, can't find anything that uses that exact phrase, barring all the notes specifically using that output... feh, ddg is being a pain. 02:35 < revel> All the ones marking it as a mitigation method, you mean? 02:36 < revel> The ones that say "Mitigation: OBS"? 02:36 < djph> all the forum posts where people are confused about what it means. 02:37 < revel> s/OBS/OSB/ 02:38 < djph> and I'm not gonna dig through that drek to find the article / wiki page that was the original source of mentioning that spectre made the inter-process "speculation barrier" observable 02:38 < revel> djph: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2018-February/089971.html 02:41 < aconite33> weird question, anyone experience an issue where you hit capslock and your keyboard layout changes? 02:42 < jml2> aconite33, maybe your shift key has become a ghost key (it is being held down) 02:42 < jml2> aconite33, sometimes going to ctl-alt-f1 and then back to x11 fixes it or hold down shift,alt and escape can fix it 02:43 < jml2> aconite33, sounds like you have a macro-key combo set for 'Accessibility' things or language/keyb change 02:43 < MrPockets> hey guys. I sure love linux. 02:43 < MrPockets> thats all. 02:43 < aconite33> Is there a way to tell if the shift key is held down like that? 02:43 < jml2> aconite33, just hold those three keys down and see if the problem goes away.. 02:43 < jml2> aconite33, this problem is common imho on all linux desktops 02:44 < jml2> aconite33, but i never had that particular problem you're having.. 02:44 < jml2> aconite33, but i know there can be the problematic ghost key with shift on occasion 02:45 < aconite33> hmm 02:45 < aconite33> doens't seem like it 02:45 < aconite33> tried all those combos 02:45 < jml2> with alt? 02:45 < aconite33> if i plug in a keyboard 02:45 < aconite33> it resets and I get my default layout back 02:45 < aconite33> tried both alt 02:45 < jml2> you could do that, unplug and replug the keyboard lol 02:45 < aconite33> I just got this laptop today 02:46 < aconite33> Yeah that seems to work 02:46 < aconite33> but it happens every time i hit caps lock 02:46 < aconite33> doesn't seem a viable solution :P 02:46 < jml2> oh laptop, maybe you hit one of those Fn keys.. 02:47 < aconite33> holy crap 02:47 < aconite33> it was the damn num lock 02:47 < jml2> well there you go 02:47 < aconite33> GG jml2 02:47 < aconite33> good lord 02:47 < aconite33> that was annoying the crap out o fme 02:47 < aconite33> CRUISE CONTROL FOR AWESOME RENABLED 02:47 < jml2> the shift ghost key problem is the most annoying.. it happens at least once a day :) 02:48 < jml2> aconite33, i hate it when my caps-lock gets out of sync with a virtualbox machine XD 02:48 < aconite33> yeah 02:48 < jml2> aconite33, or between X and tty1 ... 02:48 < aconite33> that happens to me all the time 02:48 < jml2> aconite33, lol 02:48 < aconite33> and that's how i noticed it in the first place 02:48 < aconite33> I was in my vm, and all of suden my keyboard layout changed 02:48 < jml2> aconite33, it's rather easy to sync it back but annoying when it happens.. 02:49 < antichri|st> jml2: the few magazines i could find i could not find that one with the old article, i will have another look in a moment and try and find something online if i can remember some keywords, but i am 99% certain it had nothing to do with IME and more to do with the generic ACPI or other power control across different boards going back to early 2000s or even late 1990s 02:49 < aconite33> I've never figured out how to sync it back up 02:49 < jml2> aconite33, its simple, find the one that's not matching the led on the capslock, --? 02:50 < jml2> aconite33, caps lock is for CAPS :)... that's the environment you have to toggle from first, and then do the switch after.. 02:50 < aconite33> I've had it where I onlu have one running vm 02:50 < aconite33> and it does it 02:50 < jml2> aconite33, capslock with the led on means its activated, you want to do the end-result where it becomes disactivated.. 02:51 < jml2> aconite33, its tricky, but its easy once you figure it otu 02:51 < triceratux> jml2: xubuntu 18.04 has /etc/resolv.conf pointing at 127.0.0.53 which was an epic fail on ExTiX 18.4. looks like canonical know how to get away with it. welcome to sytemd-resolved lts 02:51 < aconite33> typically a good reboot fixes it jml2 :D 02:53 < jml2> triceratux, i was reading a day or two ago about the link you gave, I recall back then about why 127.0.0.53 is being used, has something to do for a fallback 02:53 < jml2> triceratux, ah its in my notes, queried for 0.53 XD -> "The primary purpose of adding 127.0.0.53 to resolv.conf is for client software that wants to do DNS resolution by itself instead of using NSS" 02:54 < jml2> triceratux, this link -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1624320 :P 02:54 < jml2> triceratux, lol the one you gave XD 02:54 < triceratux> jml2: as long as it works its fine with me. as a side note it does keep dnsmasq from installing from the repo in a similar fashion to lubuntu-next lxqt which is never going to be released anyway 02:54 < triceratux> the stub resolver makes dnsmasq think port 53 is already in use whatever that means 02:55 < jml2> triceratux, so if you have client software that needs NSS (you know the line that says -> "hosts: files dns " in /etc/nsswitch.conf , then you should have a nameserver in /etc/resolv.conf 02:55 < jml2> triceratux, the stub resolver is NSS doing its thing.. 02:56 < jml2> triceratux, (which takes into account /etc/hosts and the nameserver entry in resolv) 02:56 < jml2> triceratux, then htere's the "context of stub resolver" that is "internal of a web browser" -- if the web browser has been compiled with its own static dns resolver.. 02:57 < clandest> . 02:57 < jml2> triceratux, so when talking about "stub resolver" it can relate to either case... be sure to specify whether you mean NSS or a stub resolver internal to a webbrowser 02:57 < triceratux> /etc/hosts is all set up with 127.0.0.1. ill just wait for the bugreports to come pouring in 02:57 < jml2> triceratux, its not a bug.. 02:57 < triceratux> jml2: is that you lennart ? 02:58 < ||JD||> kek 02:58 < jml2> triceratux, that bug report link you provided has nice explanations to it, and it makes sense :) 02:58 < jml2> triceratux, did you do a typo? lol .. 02:59 < jml2> triceratux, /etc/resolv.conf has 127.0.0.1? 02:59 < jml2> triceratux, you're back to square one spoken about sooner.. 02:59 < jml2> triceratux, resolv-file= < did you look into this? 02:59 < triceratux> jml2: youre very kind. im going to learn a lot from 18.04. im trying to take it easy tho 02:59 < jml2> triceratux, (dnsmasq.conf setting) 03:00 < jml2> triceratux, mind me saying, it makes sense, if the webbrowser sees NSS(dns) is available then it won't use its own internal stub resolver.. 03:00 < triceratux> jml2: actually /etc/hosts has *both* 127.0.01 & 127.0.1.1. watch that stuff. technically /etc.resolv.conf is a symlink to /run/systemd/resolve/stub-resolv.conf 03:01 < triceratux> *127.0.0.1 03:01 < jml2> triceratux, ok so then where are your name servers? 03:01 < jml2> triceratux, and I mean your "ISP" (or external) name servers... 03:01 < triceratux> jml2: out on the router somewhere. itz all mirrors & magic to me still 03:02 < jml2> triceratux, it cant be if you're using dnsmasq, becuase dnsmasq requires external nameservers by design if you want to talk outside your lan network.. 03:02 < jml2> triceratux, dnsmasq works perfectly for lan and won't complain about not talking to your next-hop dns name server 03:03 < jml2> triceratux, you can use dnsmasq perfectly locally without internet, but you want to have your ISP name servers somewhere set... 03:03 < jml2> triceratux, either your DHCP offers will provide them to you, or you can statically set them in /etc/resolv.dnsmasq 03:03 < jml2> triceratux, you can use google's 8.8.8.8 in /etc/resolv.dnsmasq if you'd like to 03:03 < jml2> triceratux, (resolv-file=/etc/resolv.dnsmasq) 03:04 < triceratux> jml2: theres still some 192.168.1.1 in the kernel routing table so something is effectively doing some dns forwarding somewhere. otherwise ping would be broken like it is on LXQtExTiX 03:06 < jml2> triceratux, your dhcp client sends a broadcast to a dhcp server, the server replies with --> "ip address, gateway ip, and nameservers" in a message called "DHCP offers" 03:06 < jml2> triceratux, your dhcp can be set to ignore the "nameservers" dhcp offers.. 03:06 < jml2> triceratux, because you can always set a static 8.8.8.8 as a nameserver for dnsmasq.. 03:06 < jml2> triceratux, or setup 8.8.8.8 in /etc/resolv.conf 03:06 < jml2> triceratux, either way.. 03:06 < triceratux> jml2: heres the part youll like. the log from the failed dnsmasq install http://pastebin.centos.org/708386/raw/ 03:08 < jml2> triceratux, did you accidentally run dnsmasq outside systemd's start? 03:08 < jml2> triceratux, simply kill all dnsmasq services in memory.. 03:09 < triceratux> jml2: thats just apt-get install. i didnt config it or systemctl start it 03:09 < jml2> triceratux, "failed to create listening socket for port 53: Address already in use" 03:09 < triceratux> jml2: yep thats what it does on lubuntu-next 18.04. works fine on altlinux sisyphys 03:10 * triceratux braces himself for port 53 wars 03:10 < jml2> triceratux," *# If you don't want dnsmasq to read /etc/resolv.conf or any other 03:10 < jml2> # file, getting its servers from this file instead (see below), then 03:10 < jml2> # uncomment this. 03:10 < jml2> *#no-resolv 03:10 < jml2> " 03:11 < clandest> :) 03:11 < jml2> clandest, :P 03:12 < clandest> testing if the "pretty" smileys work in my irc client. 03:12 < triceratux> jml2: anyway thanks for your patience & attention. works for me. im way ahead of the curve. its all popcorn from here :) 03:12 < jml2> clandest, I think he's not putting 2 and 2 together.. 03:13 < jml2> triceratux, you never answered my question.. 03:13 < jml2> triceratux, for that xubuntu setup, where are you getting the next-hop name servers? 03:13 < jml2> triceratux, (you dont need to tell me the name server addresses) 03:14 < jml2> triceratux, but if you're getting them from dhcp -- and those nameservers are getting placed into what file? 03:14 < triceratux> jml2: if theres any clue its in here somewhere http://pastebin.centos.org/708396/raw/ 03:15 < jml2> triceratux, are you setting a static ip on your interface? 03:15 < jml2> triceratux, you're not using any dhcp? there's a 169.x.x.x ip address ... I think you have systemd's network service running in order to do that.. 03:16 < triceratux> jml2: im not doing anything but grub2 booting the iso. thats why i know so little about networking. it always just works 03:16 < jml2> triceratux, 169.x.x.x is a fallback when things like dhcp fails.... 03:18 < triceratux> jml2: its not failing. if i want to run dnsmasq (which i dont) ill run swagarch or altlinux xfce. therell be writeups for this as 18.04 ages 03:18 < jml2> triceratux, you like hitchcock eh lol 03:18 < triceratux> jml2: you should boot the iso & blog what you see tho. xubuntu 18.04 is the future of linux 03:20 < jml2> triceratux, ok so -> localhost:domain , you're running a dns server 03:20 < Psi-Jack> Mmmmm, nice. Now I have my frontend home haproxy server directing traffic very nicely. Specific hosts go to specific servers, home address pulls up a Grav site which pulls up links to various aspects of the site with /uris referring to various internal webapp servers on various hosts, making it all seem as if one big thing. And I can ssh to it. heh heh 03:21 < Mistell> Psi-Jack: ++ 03:21 < jml2> triceratux, tcp 0 0 localhost:domain 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN 03:21 < jml2> triceratux, and another for udp.. 03:22 < triceratux> jml2: so has it taken my ISPs dns out of the loop ? 03:22 < jml2> triceratux, you said dnsmas isn't running, and it complainted to install because port 53 was being used, so you have something else running listening on port 53.. 03:22 < Psi-Jack> And I have OSSEC monitoring the haproxy logs and correllating them with the auth logs to handle proper proxied ssh attempts. :) 03:22 < jml2> triceratux, see what is listening on port 53.. 03:22 < jml2> lol 03:22 < jml2> triceratux, maybe it's bind or something.. 03:23 < triceratux> jml2: how do i query that ? 03:23 < jml2> Psi-Jack, for some reason i never liked ossec.. 03:23 < jml2> triceratux, netstat -plutn ? 03:23 * triceratux is an ubuntard & a n00b 03:23 < jml2> triceratux, should give hte name of the daemon right/ 03:23 < Psi-Jack> Stop using netstat. ss is a thing. 03:23 < jml2> Psi-Jack, you know how to make the ss output look nice and dandy? XD 03:23 < Mistell> Ubuntu is still linux. 03:23 < Psi-Jack> It already looks nice, and dandy, and has... filtering. Oh my! 03:24 < jml2> Psi-Jack, ? no it doesn't..! 03:24 < triceratux> jml2: with sudo so you get the name of course. hang on ... 03:24 < Psi-Jack> Well, get used to it, because netstat is dead. 03:24 < jml2> Psi-Jack, lol 03:24 < jml2> same params too.. 03:24 < jml2> he'll figure it out 03:25 < jml2> as long as i have access to it I shall use it over ss! 03:25 < jml2> ss is too nazi for me 03:25 < triceratux> jml2: http://pastebin.centos.org/708411/raw/ output of sudo netstat -tulpn 03:25 * jml2 XD 03:25 < jml2> triceratux, lol systemd 03:25 < triceratux> ya cant make this stuff up 03:26 < jml2> triceratux, what is in /etc/resolv.conf? 03:26 < jml2> triceratux, still "nameserver 127.0.0.1" ? 03:26 < jml2> triceratux, you said it symlinks.. to /var/run/systemd/resolv ? 03:27 < triceratux> jml2: technically /etc/resolv.conf is a symlink to /run/systemd/resolve/stub-resolv.conf which is merely a hardcoded nameserver 127.0.0.53 03:28 < triceratux> so its not a port its an ip address 03:28 < autopsy> triceratux, it still doesn't exist though. 03:28 < moog> I think netstat is highlighted here :) 03:28 < jml2> triceratux, where are the next-hop name servers? 03:29 < triceratux> jml2: how do i query that ? 03:29 < jml2> triceratux, it would be within systemd-resolved's reach.. 03:29 < triceratux> oh noooooes 03:30 < triceratux> im waiting for the forum posts 03:30 < autopsy> What is 127.0.0.53 though? 03:30 < jml2> triceratux, "The DNS servers contacted are determined from the global settings in /etc/systemd/resolved.conf ..." read from that in ->https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-resolved.service.html 03:31 < jml2> triceratux, notice the fallback of 8.8.8.8 as a default.. 03:31 < jml2> triceratux, which I mentioned to you the other day :P 03:31 < triceratux> jml2: everything in that deck is commented out 03:31 < jml2> triceratux, and you can test what the remote name servers are by using -> tcpdump -i port 53 03:32 < jml2> triceratux, and doing a quick dig google.com or ping -c 1 google.com .. 03:32 < jml2> triceratux, (actually stick with dig, as dns resolving is what you're interested) 03:33 < jml2> triceratux, if its commented-out then it is a default if no name servers are being picked up from elsewhere 03:33 < jml2> autopsy, 127/8 is for the lo, ... so you can use anything after 127.x.x.x for the localhost 03:34 < Psi-Jack> jml2: There you go, moog seems to have a perl script to "beautify" ss back to dumb old netstat look. 03:34 < jml2> Psi-Jack, lol what? 03:34 < moog> :) 03:34 < Psi-Jack> https://agmen.org/netsstat 03:35 < jml2> i'm still not impressed though.. 03:36 < jml2> iirc a quick COLUMNS= at one point may have fixed the output.. 03:36 < triceratux> jml2: i can actually do that :) pasting now ... 03:36 < jml2> the output is much too wide with ss... 03:36 < jml2> and that is aproblem for my eyes XD 03:36 < jim> Psi-Jack, please don't put folks down for what they try to do 03:36 < moog> It's not to impress anybody, it just helps :) 03:37 < jml2> ss -plutn, yes the same syntax.. i can easily adapt.. and I should say sometimes I do use ss when netstat is not to avail :P 03:37 < triceratux> jml2: http://pastebin.centos.org/708416/raw/ 03:37 < Psi-Jack> Not putting anyone down for what they try to do. Just lazy people not moving along with the way things just are. 03:37 < jml2> I would advocate more for "ip" over ifconfig .. 03:37 < moog> jml2 - I think you should have a longer look to see what netsstat could bring to you 03:37 < jml2> here ifconfig is a no-no even though it is avail here :p 03:38 < moog> But no problem if it doesn't help you, cherres anyway :) 03:38 < moog> cheers* 03:38 < jim> lazy should be ok too... we're not a meritocracy 03:39 < Psi-Jack> When it comes to recommending broken tools to people, yes it matters. 03:39 * jim likes cherries 03:39 < triceratux> jml2: so get used to it. its 127.0.0.53#53 whatever that is 03:39 * revel force-feeds jim some cherries 03:39 < jml2> triceratux, your gateway must be 192.168.1.1 -- so it is picking up nameserver 192.168.1.1 from somewhere.. 03:39 < moog> :) 03:40 < jml2> triceratux, I should of mentioned to use -n with tcpdump to show numerics.. easier to see output 03:40 < jml2> triceratux, try that.. 03:40 < jml2> triceratux, with -n, because without it a dns query is automatically attempted.. 03:40 < jml2> triceratux, it adds more traffic.. 03:40 < jim> thanks! /me aims... fires! that's the pitts! 03:40 < stevendale> o/ 03:41 < jml2> triceratux, i dont' think it would make a difference, likely my initial assumption here is still correct.. 03:42 < jml2> triceratux, grep -ri 192.168.1.1 lol 03:43 < triceratux> jml2: heres tcpdump with -n http://pastebin.centos.org/708426/raw/ 03:44 < jml2> triceratux, that looks good.. but is it what you want for NSS ? 03:44 < jml2> triceratux, thought you were telling me you were trying to use name servers that are not from your ISP.. 03:44 < triceratux> jml2: yep works for me 03:46 < jml2> triceratux, so your gateway box is it set to forward to your ISP name servers? 03:46 < triceratux> jml2: nope i just havent seen this configuration as a standard yet & the one place i did it was borked. in bonafide xubuntu 18.04 its perfectly robust 03:46 < triceratux> jml2: the doc says all this stuff is supposed to work together. hope its true 03:46 < jml2> triceratux, its becoming more standard, i'm seeing it on other distros.. so i've become a bit accustomed to it (eg, ubuntumate) 03:47 < jml2> triceratux, been like this for like the last 2 or so yearsd.. 03:48 < jml2> triceratux, it was very buggy systemd-resolv and dnsmasq.. 03:48 < jml2> triceratux, its gotten much better though.. much less a pain 03:48 < triceratux> glad i missed it :) 03:49 < jml2> triceratux, so I guess your NM is pulling in the dhcp offers ... 03:50 < jml2> triceratux, and I think calls resolvconf -- but you have resolvconf not installed... 03:50 < triceratux> dont forget connman. it has to understand all this stuff too 03:52 < jml2> triceratux, "default: The default if the key is not specified. NetworkManager will update resolv.conf to reflect the nameservers provided by currently active connections." 03:52 < jml2> triceratux, https://manpages.debian.org/jessie/network-manager/NetworkManager.conf.5.en.html 03:52 < jml2> triceratux, what key are you using for "dns" in NM ? 03:52 < jml2> triceratux, is it set to anything? 03:53 < jml2> triceratux, /etc/NetworkManager/Networkmanager.conf << has a settings dns= ? 03:54 < Psi-Jack> Done distros have configured NetworkManager to start a localhost dnsmasq server for caching purposes. 03:54 < Psi-Jack> Some 03:54 < jml2> Psi-Jack, yep but he has dnsmasq disabled intentionally lol 03:54 < jml2> helps me too because I'm in the process of adopting more of systemd-resolvd.. 03:54 < Psi-Jack> Ok. Wasn't paying attention 03:54 < jml2> and i disable these services on certain workstations -- is a real pita because systemd is changing much.. 03:55 < Psi-Jack> It's not changing that much... 03:55 < triceratux> jml2: heres the inventory so far. ive got some distros to boot. 16.04 lts was still the oldfashioned resolv.conf https://paste.opensuse.org/35023884 03:55 < jml2> and its tricky... 03:55 < Psi-Jack> And it's certainly not tricky. Hehe. 03:56 < jml2> Psi-Jack, it is tricky, there's 4 or 5 things at least to check to configure dnsmasq,NM and systemd-resolvd .. it takes a bit of time to connect the dots :p 03:57 < jml2> I had to figure out he wasn't using dnsmasq.. 03:57 < jml2> he wasnt even sure about that XD 03:57 < triceratux> jml2: nope no dns= in /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf 03:57 < jml2> triceratux, ok then it is using the default then.. 03:57 < jml2> triceratux, and /etc/resolv.conf contains just 127.0.0.1 ? that's impossible! 03:58 < jml2> triceratux, that part doesn't make sense.. 03:58 < autopsy> jml2, no 127.0.0.53 03:58 < jml2> 127/8.. 03:58 < triceratux> jml2: /etc/resolv.conf has 127.0.0.53 by virtue of it being a symlink to systemd 03:58 < jml2> triceratux, then where it is getting 192.168.1.1 ? 03:58 < stevendale> Good news: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/18.04/release/ Lubuntu has 32-bit builds still 03:59 < jml2> triceratux, because obviously you are getting dns-relays to 192.168.1.1:53 03:59 < triceratux> jml2: dnsmasq doesnt install on 18.04. im only running it on swagarch & altlinux as a proof of concept because ive been expecting this 03:59 < autopsy> stevendale, I think i386 is on its way out with the rest of the old stuff. 04:00 < jml2> triceratux, no it wouldn't while systemd-resolvd is running.. 04:00 < triceratux> jml2: anyway, youll hear moar about this i can assure you ;) just not necessarily from me 04:00 < jml2> triceratux, so you would have to disable it... (systemd-resolvd) 04:00 < stevendale> Steam will need to be rebuilt from the ground up... they can't drop Win XP easily without a full rework of the client, just like dropping 32-bit libraries from the Linux client would seriously screw things up 04:00 < jml2> triceratux, if you want to use dnsmasq in its place.. 04:01 < stevendale> Games rely on 32-bit compatibility, even new indie ones released in the past two weeks 04:01 < jml2> triceratux, it would be a good idea to know where nameserver 192.168.1.1 is being picked up by systemd-resolvd.. 04:02 < jml2> triceratux, NM is spitting it out somewhere... 04:02 < jml2> triceratux, lol 04:02 < ananke> stevendale: uhmm, what _new_ games require you to actuall run a 32 bit OS? 04:03 < ananke> stevendale: don't confuse '32 bit compatibility' for '32 bit only OS' 04:03 < stevendale> ananke, Not a 32-bit OS, 64-bit with 32-bit libraries 04:03 < ananke> stevendale: your original statement seemed to imply this was related to 32 bit os: stevendale> Good news: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/18.04/release/ Lubuntu has 32-bit builds still 04:04 < stevendale> ananke, o/ 04:04 < jml2> Psi-Jack, you familiar with this -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1624320 "The primary purpose of adding 127.0.0.53 to resolv.conf is for client software that wants to do DNS resolution by itself instead of using NSS -- most notable example is Google Chrome," 04:04 < jml2> Psi-Jack, I bet you'd have no idea how that works! :p 04:04 < Psi-Jack> I'm not familiar with systemd-resolved as of yet. 04:04 < Psi-Jack> But, I could learn it in like 5 minutes. 04:05 < jml2> that post is 2 years old..lol 04:05 < jml2> I wonder if chrome scans for a 127.0.0.53 (if that bugreport comment is correct) and would ignore NSS and instead use its own internal dns resolving.. i'd have to find documentation on this later 04:06 < jml2> I don't see how that comment on that report makes sense because i dont think NSS would tell the client hte ip address of a dns server.. 04:06 < jml2> but good to take note that webbrowsers could be having this new form of dns resolving internally 04:24 < sujeet> if i want to connect to a wifi network with a self-signed cert, how can I save the cert and check it in the future? 04:24 < sujeet> e.g. like ssh trust-on-first-connect 04:24 < Psi-Jack> What aspect of it is self-signed? 04:26 < sujeet> i'm not sure what you mean, there's a cert for authenticating on wpa2-enterprise 04:27 < Psi-Jack> So the wpa2-enterprise/RADIUS cert is self-signed, meaning you cannot connect without that certificate and matching certificate authority. 04:28 < Curi0> Is there anything like last branch record for AMD and older Intel CPUs ? 04:29 < sujeet> it's the host's cert not for the client 04:29 < sujeet> for peap 04:32 < jml2> triceratux, oh yes I remember this A LONG TIME ago, completely forgot but is important to know -->> nss-resolve 04:33 < jml2> triceratux, while reading some readmes online... 04:33 < jml2> triceratux, nss-resolve in /etc/nsswitch.conf is for systemd-resolved... 04:34 < jml2> triceratux, I'm not sure how the dhcp-offer is transferred to systemd-resolved, that would be for me to catch up on.. unless systemd-resolved somehow is tracing output from NM... 04:35 < triceratux> jml2: theres no nss-resolve in there. btw theres a link-local 169.254.0.0 in /etc/networks. that just means the zeroconf subnet is still there 04:35 < jml2> triceratux, y, and you can disable that 169.254 if it gets in the way... it's only a link-local.. 04:36 < triceratux> jml2: its got to be the gateway in the kernel ip routing table or else some major favour NM is doing which isnt obvious 04:36 < jml2> triceratux, (ipv4) -- however speaking ipv6 link-locals are important ;) 04:36 < jml2> triceratux, na... the way it works is "dhcp offers" are provided to a dhcp client... 04:37 < jml2> triceratux, the "nameserver x.x.x.x" is inside the dhcp offer message from the the dhcp server... 04:37 < triceratux> jml2: i can always symlink to /run/systemd/resolve/resolv.conf & explicitly give it 192.168.1.1. that might get the apt-get install dnsmasq to succeed again 04:37 < jml2> triceratux, but I'm not sure or where it is being ended up... from what I read it is supposed to be NM doing the "dhcp client" work.. 04:38 < jml2> triceratux, once the resolv.conf is written, then your dns lookups are ready... 04:38 < triceratux> jml2: both you & ps1-jack should install xubuntu 18.04 & get dnsmasq to work. i estimate around a dozen bugreports 04:39 < jml2> triceratux, for me I'm interested in knowing who is taking care of "nameserver 192.168.1.1" -- you cant seem to find a record for it.. 04:39 < triceratux> jml2: yep i noticed that. nothing has to be restarted 04:40 < jml2> triceratux, unless systemd-resolved is snatching it from NM, that could explain it.. 04:40 < jml2> triceratux, what's in /etc/nsswitch.conf ? 04:41 < jml2> triceratux, if you want to continue .. 04:41 < triceratux> jml2: http://pastebin.centos.org/708441/raw/ 04:42 < jml2> triceratux, " nss-resolve enables DNS resolution via the systemd-resolved 04:42 < jml2> DNS/LLMNR caching stub resolver "systemd-resolved". 04:43 < jml2> triceratux, try commenting out everything in /etc/resolv.conf and using "nss-resolve" as ->> "hosts: files nss-resolve" (/etc/nsswitch.conf) 04:43 < jml2> triceratux, see if that does anything with dig google.com 04:44 < jml2> triceratux, and use tcpdump -i -n port 53 , to see what dns forwarder gets called to.. 04:44 < jml2> triceratux, a reboot is not necessary.. 04:44 < jml2> triceratux, is that xubuntu the official and not derivative? 04:46 < jml2> triceratux, the outcome should be the same... 04:46 < triceratux> jml2: thats todays & its working. its not broken. rofl its not on the server anymore. glad i got my copy http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/18.04/release/ 04:47 < jml2> triceratux, what is not broken? lol 04:47 < triceratux> jml2: theres still an iso representing todays daily which im confident is comparable http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20180426/ 04:47 < jml2> triceratux, you mean "dnsmasq" ? 04:48 < triceratux> jml2: yeah dnsmasq merely doesnt install but im not trying to install it. & if i wanted to id run a real distro 04:48 < jml2> triceratux, funny 04:48 < triceratux> linux is about freedom 04:48 < jml2> triceratux, omg the list just became blank!!! http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/18.04/release/ 04:48 < jml2> triceratux, ^ 04:48 < jml2> triceratux, they just updated it lol 04:48 < sysfault> could anyone tell me why this mouse isnt working in unity but works in gdm and in my win7 partition fine on the same system ever since i dropped the ice cube on the touchpad? 04:48 < jml2> triceratux, they're about to roll out the daily directory to that other path.. 04:48 < triceratux> jml2: theyve been doing that for several hours. they seem to have no clue what theyre doing 04:49 < jml2> sysfault, ice cubes on the touchpad? wtf? 04:50 < jml2> sysfault, you sniffing water? 04:50 < sysfault> lol no idea how it happened it was only a second or so 04:50 * jml2 takes a whiff sniff of some H20 small cubelettes 04:51 < jml2> triceratux, last time i tried xubuntu was when it was 1610, i can see my long list here of distros on my oracle vbox :P) 04:52 < triceratux> jml2: the thing is, all those configs are in /etc. but now theres also configs in /etc/systemd & /lib/systemd & /run/systemd & any one of them can be a writeable symlink doing some kind of tenuously configured override which makes some code in the depths of systemd-resolved or NetworkManager work. well now that its lts maybe itll get documented in 5 years or so 04:54 < jml2> triceratux, i'm installing fromt he daily-live 04:55 < jml2> triceratux, the idea of systemd-resovled and dnsmasq is to support dnssec... so this is why in a way they're needed projects... 04:55 < jml2> triceratux, troubleshooting it is a pita as I can see.. 04:56 < jml2> triceratux, as NM is itself flexible, and so as is dnsmasq and s-resolved.. 04:56 < jml2> it's like 70% installed.. 04:57 < triceratux> jml2: my guess is that cutting in 127.0.0.53 for the benefit of chrome is supposed to be transparent to the classical 192.168.1.1 which it can be, althogh the latter is then of uncertain provenance 04:57 < triceratux> jml2: youll like 18.04. its pretty solid actually. ive got it running Opera 52.0 04:58 < jml2> triceratux, https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/884 lol 04:58 < jml2> triceratux, "poettering added the documentation label on Aug 6, 2015" XD 04:59 < triceratux> jml2: anyone can complain senselessly about systemd. this is a whole lot more fun 05:01 < jml2> triceratux, found it.. 05:01 < jml2> triceratux, just readign things --> it is actually "resolve" and not "nss-resolve" -- https://manpages.debian.org/testing/libnss-resolve/nss-resolve.8.en.html 05:02 < jml2> triceratux, notice there is "dns" after "resolve" in that example --- the "dns" and "resolve" are purely aesthetic in labelling... 05:03 < jml2> triceratux, and that would certainly confuse the new user ;) 05:04 < Time-Warp> hey does anyone know where apt-get install netflix is ? 05:04 < markasoftware> apt-get install firefox will have to suffice 05:04 < avis-> how do you clean and remake /home directory contens by file type with best recognition ? 05:04 < jml2> triceratux, it seems that if you setup the systemd-resolved properly and have "resolve" in /etc/nsswitch.conf, then the resolv file to pay attention to is -> /etc/systemd/resolved.conf ? 05:04 < Time-Warp> LOL 05:05 < TinyTimmyTokyo> Time-Warp: make sure you have DRM support enabled in the browser 05:05 < avis-> keeping same /home 05:05 < TinyTimmyTokyo> you need EME for Netflix content to load 05:05 < avis-> but ok moving 05:05 < TinyTimmyTokyo> cuz Widevine content protection 05:05 < jml2> triceratux, I believe that path conf is a fallback when using systemd-resolved exclusively.. 05:06 < triceratux> jml2: hows the dnsmasq install treatin ya ? 05:06 < avis-> i use unbound security dns program 05:07 < jml2> "/etc/resolv.conf OTOH should be a symlink to /run/systemd/resolve/resolv.conf which is where resolved writes out a compat resolv.conf." -- https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/884 05:07 < jml2> triceratux, ^ according to poettering.. 05:07 < avis-> its clean if novice and advanced not too bad 05:07 < jml2> triceratux, rebooting 05:07 < triceratux> jml2: thats the principal thing i ascertained this week yep 05:07 < avis-> get university statistics they give you all jobs or leave you here. on freenode knowing all channels 05:08 < jml2> triceratux, ok i see dnsmasq is not running by default 05:08 < avis-> sometimes a file is compressed and never knew it and steganography 05:08 < triceratux> jml2: but see on 18.04 its *not*. it points at the celebrated /run/systemd/resovlve/stub-resolv.conf 05:08 < avis-> yuo might have to cahnge local host to local host number knowing you’ll need all dns backups 05:09 < jml2> it is runing 18.04 lts.. 05:09 < avis-> for dnsmasq 05:09 < jml2> from that daily-live dnload link.. 05:09 < jml2> triceratux, but "resolve" is not in /etc/nsswitch.conf.. 05:09 < triceratux> jml2: exactly 05:10 < jml2> triceratux, so it is I guess doing a "legacy" way of support "dns" 05:10 < jml2> triceratux, the NSS-dns 05:10 < jml2> triceratux, which uses /etc/resolv.conf by default.. 05:10 < avis-> release party is what ubuntu channel (spring rolls and orange slices candy) 05:10 < triceratux> jml2: so do yer apt-get install dnsmasq & try to free up that port 53 05:10 < jml2> triceratux, i will remove the link/file /etc/resolv.conf and see what happens when i set resolve in nsswitch.conf 05:11 < avis-> have. 13 different dns is good unless they fsaster than you 05:11 < avis-> i wanted tor openwrt on our lan 05:13 < jml2> triceratux, it didnt do the trick.. 05:14 < jml2> triceratux, i will keep the resolv.cong symlink and try with "files: hosts resolve" 05:14 < jml2> triceratux, typo (hosts: files resolve) 05:14 < triceratux> mmm spring rolls sound good. im partying heavily. glad theres folks at canonical somewhere that can get this all to work. works for me 05:16 < jml2> triceratux, interesting, when I delete /etc/resolv.conf and simply reboot, I get /etc/resolv.conf as a "file" (not a symlink) and it says at the header "Generated by NetworkManager".. 05:17 < jml2> triceratux, the symlink seems to be no longer generated XD 05:17 < triceratux> jml2: thats why ive developed a framework that allows me to boot from the vanilla isos & bypass the "installers". if you desquirrel it in a couple boots youll have no evidence of the original configuration 05:18 < triceratux> jml2: the symlink is probably configured for the iso & then propagated via the installer. then nothing brings it back if you zap it 05:19 < jml2> triceratux, yeah i think you're right, this shit is broken.. 05:19 < avis-> resolv.conf i don’t think should ever be deleted. boot from live cd and maybe repalce the file with one that is good may work unless you have backup then you could try recovery from grub 05:19 < jml2> triceratux, rebooting.. takes 15 seconds here.. 05:20 * triceratux gives jml2 the coveted understatement of the day award 05:20 < jml2> triceratux, yep the symlink never gets regnerated.. 05:21 < jml2> triceratux, I think its intentional and the maintainers know that systemd-resolved is improving.. 05:21 < jml2> triceratux, the maintainers must know this bug is there so they just keep it as a symlink.. 05:21 < jml2> triceratux, while systemd-resolved contines to evolve.. 05:24 < snugger> What do you think of distros like Peppermint which mix DE components in hopes of creating the perfect desktop? 05:24 < triceratux> jml2: so yeah doesnt affect me. its fine as shipped & then it decays gracefully. it affects ExtonOS tho. arne stepped in it rofl. & hes not even running any kind of bugtracker. he thinks hes perfect 05:24 < snugger> e.g. uses lxsession but xfce panel and menu 05:24 < snugger> and nemo file search 05:25 < snugger> file manager* 05:25 < jml2> triceratux, yeah, so when "NM generated" /etc/resolv.conf (not a symlink) it is 127.0.0.53 05:26 < jml2> triceratux, and when a symlink already exists, it is "systemd-resolved generated" at the header.. 05:26 < jml2> triceratux, that I would consider workable.. 05:27 < jml2> triceratux, not sure about why the s-resolved document mentions it generates a symlink in /etc.. 05:28 < triceratux> jml2: bottom line is 18.04 lts users can no longer be complacent about the contents of their /etc/resolv.conf. theyll have to audit it & adopt a standard for it & possibly throw the immutable bit to keep some systemd daemon from rewriting it under undocumented circumstances 05:29 < triceratux> or they can just stuff 8.8.8.8 in it if lennart & canonical are content to break dns completely 05:29 < jml2> triceratux, it is good there's improvements here, but this is a transitional stage.. 05:30 < jml2> triceratux, most of the net issues come around the desing of dns.. it's faulty with "udp" (insecure) 05:32 < jml2> triceratux, its broken 05:32 < jml2> triceratux, i rebooted again, and systemd-resolved refuses to generate a resolv (i edited nsswitch.conf) 05:32 < triceratux> jml2: like i say ive never had any issue with systemd. it starts & stops service files & manages services just fine. but if this is their idea of an improvement in dns ill be stocking up on the popcorn to be sure 05:33 < antichri|st> also what do you think about the security and privacy implications of that when someone would like to tunnel all DNS requests through tor for example, configure their system, and then the config gets overwritten by systemd and they have DNS leakage 05:33 < jml2> triceratux, its busted here tehehe... 05:34 < jml2> triceratux, for some reason after like the 4th reboot, systemd-resolved refuses to generate its resolv.conf despite there being a symlink from /etc 05:34 < jml2> triceratux, ever have this? 05:34 < jml2> triceratux, ss -plutn shows s-resolved running.. 05:34 < samort7> What does this do? dpkg-reconfigure --frontend noninteractive tzdata 05:34 < triceratux> jml2: no. thats precisely why i script my own persistence & dont run installers. linux degrades 05:34 < jml2> triceratux, yeah it's broken, I would recommend not using s-resolved for the time being and instead install resolvconf.. 05:35 < triceratux> ewww 05:35 < jml2> triceratux, i'm doing very minimal edits too, and doing a full reboot.. yep broken. 05:36 < jml2> triceratux, actually NM is the resolv-writer... so package resolvconf isnt needed ;) 05:36 < triceratux> jml2: what about just symlinking to /run/systemd/resolve/resolv.conf which is in fact properly generated ? that reestablishes classical dns 05:36 < triceratux> jml2: exactly. that doesnt keep a bunch of distros from still running it 05:37 < jml2> triceratux, that path is always written by s-resolved... 05:37 < jml2> triceratux, if you use touch /etc/resolv.conf (actual file) then new things are placed by NM -- -with the header message "generated by NM" 05:37 < jml2> triceratux, (dont skip the "generated by" ion the header -- that's useful :p) 05:38 < jml2> triceratux, never saw "generated by NM" in the systemd path.. 05:38 < jml2> triceratux, so that I think helps narrow things.. 05:39 < jml2> triceratux, my bad. 05:39 < jml2> triceratux, my i had a bad symlink lol 05:39 < jml2> triceratux, ok ok... 05:41 < triceratux> jml2: relax. this is just a headsup. youll be hearing moar ;) 05:41 < jml2> had ../run/systemd/system/resolv.conf instead of run/systemd/resolve/resolv.conf .. 05:42 < jml2> triceratux, yeah and the results are always the same here... 05:42 < jml2> triceratux, 192.168.1.1 always shows up in the s-resolved file.. 05:42 < jml2> triceratux, so are you using the symlink ? 05:43 < jml2> triceratux, i wonder how nss-resolve works.. 05:44 < triceratux> jml2: im leaving the vanilla symlink in place which means all /etc/resolv.conf has explicit access to is 127.0.0.53 so whatever is pointing to 192.168.1.1 is a mystery but everything works except the dnsmasq install. that is my understanding 05:44 < jml2> triceratux, becuase i've tried removing /etc/resolv.conf to see what would happen... thinking another resolv.conf under s-resolved would be sought 05:45 < jml2> triceratux, it is systemd-resolve that has the 192.168.1.1 ... 05:45 < jml2> triceratux, seems that you're using nss-dns because /etc/resolv.conf is written by NM... 05:46 < jml2> triceratux, and then through 127.0.0.53 you are going through systemd-resolved... 05:46 < jml2> triceratux, you're going through a long path if you rather had nss-resolve set in nsswitch.conf -- but i dont even know if nss-resolve actually works.. 05:47 < jml2> triceratux, (nss-resolv would be the shorter path) 05:47 < untoreh> hello, what's the equivalent of openvt for pts? The only okish I have found is "script" but it is really meant to run script while I just want to spawn a command on another dev/pts, tmux friggin complains "not in a terminal" when I try to use it, while ssh happily creates dev/pts but using ssh on localhost is always meh 05:48 < jml2> triceratux, (and you'll need to have "resolve" in nss-switch.conf to have the short pathway) 05:48 < jml2> triceratux, but overall it works and you're still going through systemd-resovled anyways.. 05:49 < triceratux> jml2: well i really appreciate the feedback. ill have to google some nss stuffs 05:51 < jml2> triceratux, read up on this -- https://manpages.debian.org/testing/libnss-resolve/nss-resolve.8.en.html 05:51 < jml2> triceratux, from there the see also link systemd-resolved.. 05:52 < jml2> triceratux, and any other explanations online... and proof of cases of workable examples... looking for some.. 05:52 < jml2> triceratux, seems very clustered-**%% 05:54 < triceratux> jml2: this is just the beginning. no major distro has tried shipping configured like this. there will be forum posts, blogs, & scripts to tidy it up. it will become a specialised discipline 05:55 < jml2> triceratux, "•The native, fully-featured API systemd-resolved exposes on the bus." << this is what I'm after.. -- you're using the less efficient/legacy mechanism (3rd method) -> https://manpages.debian.org/testing/systemd/systemd-resolved.8.en.html 05:56 < triceratux> jml2: im not doing anything but running a vanilla xubuntu lts iso. it has nothing to do with me :P 05:57 < jml2> triceratux, that document (last link) helps to explain to me what is nss-resolve -- which is the second method described.. 05:57 < triceratux> jml2: https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/linux/SystemdResolvedNotes 05:57 < jml2> triceratux, you gotta start using dnssec soon buddy 05:57 < jml2> triceratux, XD 05:58 < triceratux> jml2: this experience has put it near the top of the buzzword list indeed. conventional wisdom says its necessary 05:59 < jml2> triceratux, that blogger is getting things mingled... 05:59 < triceratux> "Since resolved doesn't actually shove itself in the way of anyone who didn't actively ask for it (via DBus or querying 127.0.0.53), I currently feel it's unobjectionable enough to leave unmasked and thus potentially activated via DBus." rofl 06:00 < triceratux> jml2: i didnt take that attitude with extonos. i blew the thing out of the water with a boottime script 06:01 < triceratux> he was probably looking at different software a few months ago. itz shifting sands 06:01 < jml2> triceratux, the fully working s-resolved has dnsssec, and that blogger completely leaves that out.. 06:02 < jml2> triceratux, hte nss-resolve setting in nsswitch.conf is for the second method described... 06:02 < jml2> triceratux, (he also gets this wrong) 06:03 < triceratux> jml2: well my favourite has always been this one "The systemd developers are not qualified to write either DNS software[2] or C code that talks to the network." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14652787 06:03 < triceratux> jml2: geez itz a done deal !!! cant we take a break rofl ? 06:04 < jml2> triceratux, I've been doing this on and off for the last 2 years :) 06:05 < jml2> triceratux, yeah its definitely getting better... but it's extremely confusing imho.. 06:05 < jml2> triceratux, thanks for helping me see some light here XD thanks ;) 06:06 < jml2> triceratux, i've got to disable this systemd-resolved business on other systems because I have dnsmasq ... good thing I disable systemd-resolved right away as they try to do the same thing... 06:06 < triceratux> jml2: always a pleasure. & tbh im definitely learning a lot. cant be beat ;) 06:06 < jml2> triceratux, np and gn :) 06:07 < littl4> is there a way to create multiple ttys.. i generally use vagrant and aws on top of gitbash 06:08 < littl4> chvt 2,3 or ctrl+alt+f[2-10] does not work.. f.. i meant function keys 06:15 < Triffid_Hunter> littl4: check your /etc/inittab, virtual terminals are usually created there 06:17 < littl4> Triffid_Hunter: # inittab is no longer used when using systemd. is the first line that displays 06:17 < Triffid_Hunter> ah well I'm not using systemd, everyone keeps telling me how terrible it is 06:25 < DF3D2> Triffid_Hunter, I rather like it 06:28 < Triffid_Hunter> DF3D2: any specific advantages you enjoy over openrc? 06:28 < markasoftware> easier to write unit files 06:28 < markasoftware> sometimes boots faster 06:29 < markasoftware> bootcharts 06:29 < DF3D2> never used openrc tbh 06:30 < markasoftware> but i do hate how they're trying to replace cron and other time-tested unix tools 06:30 < Triffid_Hunter> my rig already goes from cold to desktop in 10s flat, mostly bios and kde load time :D 06:35 < mrlemon> hi 06:35 < mrlemon> does anyone know of any linux related telegram chats? 06:36 < jim> what's a tel;egram chat? 06:37 < mrlemon> jim: telegram is an app that is fairly secure 06:38 < mrlemon> and there are chat groups 06:38 < DF3D2> I heard telegram was being bullied by the russian gov't to turn over keys though 06:38 < DF3D2> if that happens I'll have to stop using it, although who knows the US gov't probably has them already 06:38 < mrlemon> where people can discuss (usually on mobile devices) various topics in a largely encrypted way 06:38 < mrlemon> DF3D2: yeah, same 06:39 < mrlemon> i only use it because of close friends atm 06:39 < jim> so what you want to know, is there a chat group related to linux, is that right? 06:39 < mrlemon> but would be willing to branch out if there were interesting chats 06:39 < mrlemon> jim: yes, i'm sure there are, i suppose lively and fun chats related to linux to be more specific 06:40 < jim> they're not always guaranteed to be fun, and I suppose many are 06:41 < jim> can I ask, what's important for you, about them being telegram chats? 06:42 < mrlemon> jim: because telegram is an app i enjoy using... and i have experienced chats related to other subjects that were fun to be a part of 06:42 < mrlemon> I just wasnt as interested in the topic that much 06:42 < mrlemon> they were related to cryptocurrencies which i have little interest in jim 06:43 < jim> oh, ok :) and, would you be interested in chats about linux that are not on telegram? 06:44 < mrlemon> jim: yes lol, of course 06:44 < mrlemon> im currently busy atm 06:44 < mrlemon> but I'm familiar w irc 06:44 < mrlemon> i should specify, im procrastinating on a paper 06:44 < mrlemon> but i wont use discord 06:44 < mrlemon> due to privacy concerns 06:44 < jim> I'm not quite sure I caught that last part... did you say you're interested in cryptocurrencies, or not? 06:45 < mrlemon> and personally i like the minimalism of irc 06:45 < mrlemon> jim: no, i used to be interested, but no longer 06:45 < jim> ok 06:46 < jim> so, about this network in particular, there are a lot of "chat groups" (we call them 06:46 < jim> 'channels') 06:46 < mrlemon> jim i know about irc lol 06:46 < mrlemon> i've been using rizon for about 2 years now 06:46 < jim> and about freenode in particular? 06:46 < mrlemon> actively 06:46 < mrlemon> jim: i assume they are very similar 06:46 < mrlemon> but i could be wrong 06:47 < jim> I was just going to say there are a lot of channels about particular open-source projects here, and there is a bot, alis, that can assist you in looking for channels on the Freenode irc net. To start, /msg alis help 06:47 < mrlemon> ok cool thanks jim 06:48 < mrlemon> jim: 06:48 < jim> which distribution of linux do you run? 06:48 < mrlemon> >open source 06:48 < mrlemon> jim: currently ubuntu but i want to switch back to debian with xfce 06:48 < mrlemon> it was cozy 06:49 < jim> ok... the debian folks have "officially" moved to irc.oftc.net 06:49 < mrlemon> kk thanks, ill check that out as well 06:49 < jim> but some of their channels still remain here 06:49 < Evidlo> nice, slack is dropping IRC support 06:50 < autopsy> Slackware? 06:50 < jim> you mean slackware? 06:50 < mrlemon> jim: which distro do you use? 06:50 < mrlemon> for daily use 06:50 < jim> debian 06:50 < mrlemon> :) good taste 06:51 < jim> yeah, they used to have a package ipmasq which I resurrected and been keeping it alive 06:51 < Evidlo> no, I dont mean slackware 06:51 < Evidlo> that wouldn't make any sense 06:51 < jim> oh, ok... what's slack? 06:52 < mrlemon> jim: nice, thanks for the good work 06:52 < mrlemon> Evidlo: lol, wtf is slack if not slackware 06:52 < Evidlo> a communication platform 06:52 < mrlemon> what makes it special 06:52 < lainknight> reeeeeeee 06:52 < superkuh> Slack is a proprietary corporate attempt to siphon on IRC users at companies and charge them for a shittier service. 06:52 < Evidlo> its fairly popular 06:52 < mrlemon> superkuh: lol 06:52 < Triffid_Hunter> Jim: it's like web-based IRC, reinvented somewhat 06:52 < jim> well they didn't want it back, so as far as I know I'm the only one who still uses it... but I'll hand it to anyone who can use it 06:52 < mrlemon> can i curse on this channel? 06:52 < mrlemon> can i curse on this channel? 06:52 < Evidlo> I'm surprised you haven't heard of it 06:53 < lainknight> it's a super bloated electron app 06:53 < mrlemon> Evidlo: i'm surprised you're shilling it 06:53 < mrlemon> lainknight: lmao 06:53 < mrlemon> Evidlo: stop shilling your corporate product 06:53 < mrlemon> we're using irc for a reason 06:53 < jim> mrlemon, no, excessive profanity (on this channel) is not permitted 06:54 < Evidlo> you didn't even read what I said, or you don't know what 'shill' means 06:54 < mrlemon> jim: ok, can i say something along the lines of "f that" 06:54 < jim> yeah 06:54 < Evidlo> take your 4chanisms elsewhere 06:54 < mrlemon> Evidlo: take your irc alternatives elsewhere m8 06:54 < jim> thanks for asking, I appreciate that 06:55 < autopsy> What does Slack have to do with IRC or Linux? 06:55 < mrlemon> jim no problem, i dont want to barge in and act impolite 06:55 < mrlemon> ^ 06:55 < Evidlo> slack is dropping support for its irc and xmpp gateways 06:55 < mrlemon> Evidlo: and? 06:55 < mrlemon> who cares? 06:55 < jim> xmpp, isn't that jabber? 06:55 < superkuh> Embrace. Extend. ...? 06:56 < mrlemon> jabber is based 06:56 < mrlemon> so is jmp 06:56 < lainknight> Embrace, extend....P R O F I T 06:56 < mrlemon> lmao 06:57 < mrlemon> i'm not even going to acknowledge Evidlo by looking up what slack is 06:57 < Sonolin> Evidlo weechat has a good plugin for it 06:57 < mrlemon> all i have to say is 06:57 < jim> inject and infect? 06:57 < Evidlo> are you new to irc? 06:57 < mrlemon> if it's getting rid of irc support 06:57 < mrlemon> why would i care? 06:57 < mrlemon> Evidlo: no, not at all, are you? 06:58 < mrlemon> what does it have to do with linux? lmfao 06:58 < Evidlo> Sonolin: yeah i was using it for a while. this is a good reason to get people to switch to matrix 06:59 < jim> one other thing, would you mind consolidating your complete thoughts onto an irc line? 06:59 < Sonolin> it honestly doesn't surprise me, they want to keep it all inside their network & APIs for $$$ 06:59 < mrlemon> jim: who are you speaking to? 07:00 < mrlemon> Sonolin: lol 07:00 < jim> mrlemon, oh, I noticed you were breaking up your thoughts onto 2 or 3 lines 07:00 < Evidlo> I"m sure there are still paying customers who convinced their bosses/etc to switch because of integration capability 07:00 < mrlemon> jim: ah sorry 07:02 < Sonolin> over IRC, really? 07:02 < Sonolin> I don't think it had much impact on their profits or they would've kept support... 07:03 < mrlemon> >irc compatibility impacts profits wut 07:03 < mrlemon> Evidlo: go shill on discord, dude, noone here will fall for your schtick 07:04 < lainknight> That's cool matrix is on weechat. I've been using irssi 07:04 < kopper> My thoughts on this discussion https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/trollpasta/images/d/dc/THE_LONGER_YOU_STARE_the_funnier_it_gets.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140721202428 07:04 < autopsy> mrlemon, I'm still perplexed by slack not meaning Slackware. 07:04 < Evidlo> the weechat-matrix plugin is super buggy, but i use it every day 07:04 < jim> mrlemon, no worries... 07:05 < mrlemon> autopsy: me too lol, you come into a linux channel, and use the word slack, and expect everyone to know what he means, like who does he think he is 07:05 < autopsy> mrlemon, of course he doesn't mean slackware who are we? 07:05 < Sonolin> poor slackware 07:06 < autopsy> I used Slackware in 1995 with a 1.2.1 kernel. 07:06 < mrlemon> that would be like me coming into here and saying "has anyone heard of deb?" and then being perplexed when i'm shilling some random product that has nothing to do with debian, it makes no sense 07:06 < jim> mrlemon, the reason I say, is sometimes there are a lot of simultaneous conversations going on, and split lines could get in the way 07:06 < mrlemon> slackware was based 07:06 < mrlemon> jim: i understand completely, no need to explain :) 07:07 < autopsy> mrlemon, slackware was an original distrobution back when it first started out. 07:08 < autopsy> mrlemon, what do you mean based? 07:08 < mrlemon> autopsy: i know, by based i meant cool... sorry for the confusion lol 07:08 < autopsy> mrlemon, never heard that term before. 07:09 < Evidlo> its because his vernacular has been infected by 4chan 07:09 < lainknight> lol 07:09 < mrlemon> Evidlo: you're still here? lmfao 07:09 < mrlemon> i use the word based because I listened to lil b before he was popular and he used the term based to describe himself 07:09 < Evidlo> I was here before you arrived, and I'l be here after you leave 07:09 < autopsy> Evidlo, what are you doing man that makes you all talk about slack? 07:10 < mrlemon> Evidlo: i doubt it, you're probably older than i am, tick tock tick tock 07:10 < Evidlo> I don't support slack, mrlemon just thinks I do for some reason 07:10 < Evidlo> hes been baiting me for the past 10 minutes 07:10 < autopsy> Evidlo, nah he must not be too old saying slack doesn't mean slackware. 07:11 < autopsy> Slack has nothing to do with Linux though. 07:11 < mrlemon> Evidlo: >accuses me of "4chanisms" >uses the word baiting get yourself together, brother 07:11 < Evidlo> neither does IRC, by that logic. this is a general discussion channel anyways 07:12 < autopsy> Were you just at the wrong terminal for a second? 07:12 < mrlemon> Evidlo: this is a channel called #linux lmfao 07:12 < mrlemon> well technically ##linux 07:12 < autopsy> Evidlo, some IRC daemons run on Linux. 07:13 < autopsy> It's not logic. 07:13 < lainknight> Slack is useful as an example of the opposite of a simple terminal application 07:13 < mrlemon> Evidlo: i suggest if you'd like to talk about subjects unrelated to linux and related to irc more generally, #chat is a more useful channel :) 07:14 < lainknight> To put it nicely 07:14 < mrlemon> ^ 07:15 < autopsy> lainknight, still doesn't make sense. What is slack? 07:15 < lainknight> One of the older people I know IRL used Slackware when they were first getting into Linux 07:16 < lainknight> In the 90s 07:16 < Evidlo> a proprietary chat platform 07:16 < mrlemon> autopsy: "Slack is a cloud-based set of proprietary team collaboration tools and services, founded by Stewart Butterfield. Slack began as an internal tool used by their company, Tiny Speck, in the development of Glitch, a now defunct online game." L M F A O 07:17 < Evidlo> I tried out Slackware a few months ago but I didn't like the package manager situation very much 07:17 < lainknight> Yea, Slack. It's the meme chat app for places like those annoying marketing companies that have open office floor plans. 07:18 < mrlemon> >proprietary boy, i don't know where you think you are, but trying to shill proprietary software in a linux irc channel is like trying to sell confederate flag belt buckles to African Americans 07:19 < mrlemon> lainknight: TRUTH 07:19 < mrlemon> btw Evidlo shill is a yiddish term and has nothing to do with 4chan, much like the word glitch, thanks for assuming things about me though 07:20 < Evidlo> mrlemon: quit shilling discord then. You mentioned discord. Youre shilling it! 07:20 < lainknight> All centralized chat applications must die 07:21 < p3rL> how to remove proces with regex 07:21 < mrlemon> Evidlo: I told you to shill on discord because discord is a bad platform where you might find some morons who will buy your product 07:21 < mrlemon> also, unlike slack, people actually know what discord is 07:21 < mrlemon> i personally recommend riot.fm 07:21 < Evidlo> I dont think people appreciate discord here. It's why were using IRC 07:22 < Evidlo> also its Riot.im, which is just a web matrix client 07:22 < mrlemon> Evidlo: i agree with you 07:22 < mrlemon> and i realized my mistake 07:23 < Evidlo> i agree with you too, lmfao. wtfbbq 07:23 < mrlemon> Evidlo: jesus, that meme is old lol 07:24 < mrlemon> Evidlo: i probably accused you of shilling slack when you weren't and it might be too late to apologize 07:24 < mrlemon> but i just thought it was pretty random to mention in a linux channel 07:25 < autopsy> Just kiss and make up then go your seperate ways. 07:25 < jim> I'll probably be wanting to handle the offtopics :)\ 07:25 < mrlemon> anyway 07:25 < mrlemon> back to linux, which distros do you all use for pc use? 07:26 < mrlemon> jim uses debian 07:26 < mrlemon> i use ubuntu atm 07:26 < autopsy> I use Fedora 27. 07:26 < mrlemon> autopsy: why fedora? 07:26 < junka> i use Arch 07:26 < Sonolin> gentoo 07:26 < junka> solus 07:26 < mrlemon> junka: arch is nice 07:26 < Crimguy> Arch and manjaro for me. 07:26 < jim> I say that because occasionally I allow or go offtopic (but limit that to a few minutes) when I think it might be useful 07:26 < mrlemon> Sonolin: do you actually use gentoo? 07:27 < autopsy> mrlemon, because I like the RedHat backing. 07:27 < Sonolin> mrlemon yes :) 07:27 < lainknight> I think all the fractionation between distros is probably my least favorite thing about Linux in general. 07:27 < mrlemon> autopsy: PROPRIETARY CORPORATE SHILL!!!!!! jk 07:27 < Sonolin> for work & games 07:27 < mrlemon> Sonolin: i'm impressed gentoo is notoriously hard to install (as you likely know lol) 07:28 < autopsy> mrlemon, I used to use Slackware Linux. 07:28 < mrlemon> lainknight: are you an anarchist without adjectives? what's wrong with choices? 07:28 < jim> lainknight, yeah, it can cause wars that I end up having to defend agains 07:28 < jim> t 07:28 < Crimguy> gentoo tests ones ability to follow directions ;-) 07:29 < mrlemon> autopsy: it's 2018 lol, do you actually still use slackware? because i just use slack, it's a proprietary software that's definitely not trash 07:29 < lainknight> It's inefficient. Lots of work is getting repeated. How many package managers do we really need, guys? 07:29 < Sonolin> gentoo is awesome 07:29 < mrlemon> lainknight: exactly. that's why everyone should use debian 07:29 < junka> each for each distro and its forks 07:29 < Sonolin> I switched to it because slackware was too much of a PITA 07:29 < lainknight> So many problems in the Linux space have been here for 15 freakin years. lol 07:30 < lainknight> X is still a mess. Pulseaudio still sucks. 07:30 < Sonolin> to be fair, its not slackware's fault though, I just can't stand not having a package manager :) 07:30 < mrlemon> lainknight: i agree 07:30 < mrlemon> APT IS GOD 07:30 < lainknight> I am a control freak, though, so I'll always go with it even if it's a pain in the ass. 07:30 < jim> lainknight, well in particular work is repeated by ubuntu, who take debian's testing or unstable and fix the bugs (when they know well that debian is going to do anyway) 07:31 < mrlemon> I think the gnu community has so many types of people with so many preferences that a streamlined version would be incompatible with the movement as a whole 07:31 < mrlemon> gnu is about choice 07:31 < junka> i doubt thats whats happening 07:31 < mrlemon> junka: talking to me? 07:32 < junka> why isnt ubuntu waiting for debian to fix them? xD 07:32 < jim> or about a large animal with big horns 07:32 < stevendale> Windows XP is chugging happily along for me lainknight :) 07:32 < lainknight> Choice is not the UNIX way lol 07:32 < autopsy> mrlemon, no I used Slackware and pppd to connect to a 56K phone line to get internet. I use Fedora 27 now. 07:32 < junka> stevendale; :D 07:32 < mrlemon> ubuntu is trash, i need to switch distros 07:32 < jim> junka, and the converse: why doen't ubuntu help fix debian bugs? 07:33 < konsolebox> lainknight: GNU is not UNIX 07:33 < mrlemon> kind of feel like going the arch-i3 route 07:33 < stevendale> mrlemon, Even XP is better than Ubuntu :D 07:33 < mrlemon> just to try it out 07:33 < mrlemon> stevendale: that's not true at all lol 07:33 < junka> mrlemon; it is xD 07:34 < jim> stevendale, when it's true for you, put "I" in your statement 07:34 < mrlemon> junka: stevendale how so? i despise ubuntu but I'm curious 07:35 < junka> mrlemon; it uses less CPU and RAM than any distro 07:35 < jim> stevendale, instead of "xp is better than ubuntu", you can say "I like xp better than ubuntu, because xyz" 07:35 < lainknight> Anyone's machine running libreboot? 07:36 < mrlemon> junka: but xp is so vulnerable to viruses and attacks 07:36 < mrlemon> lainknight: i wish lol 07:36 < stevendale> I like XP better than Ubuntu because running games on XP using DirectX 7, 8.1 & 9 is faster than running them using OpenGL on Ubuntu 07:36 < mrlemon> eventually i'll get there 07:36 < mrlemon> stevendale: well ofc games will be better lol you should have just said that 07:37 < mrlemon> i mean, supertuxcart is the greatest game of all time dont get me wrong 07:37 < jim> stevendale, yep, games on linux isn't very good 07:37 < lainknight> Games on Linux is sooooo much better than it used to be. 07:37 < lainknight> Holy crap. 07:37 < mrlemon> lainknight: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 07:38 < lainknight> Remember when we didn't have Steam, lol 07:38 < mrlemon> but still, not as good as windows, even xp 07:38 < stevendale> Especially for hardware that isn't NVIDIA mrlemon 07:38 < jim> we had doom, and that was about it 07:38 < lainknight> I don't know why you would run XP in 2018. 07:38 < lainknight> It's been EOL for god only knows how long. 07:38 < stevendale> lainknight, 2014 IIRC 07:39 < lainknight> lol 07:39 < sauvin> Legacy software. XP fits OK in a VM. 07:39 < mrlemon> lainknight: because muh games 07:39 < autopsy> I don't like playing games. 07:39 < junka> RELEASE SOURCE OF WIN XP 07:39 < lainknight> Video games should be illegal. 07:39 < junka> :D 07:40 < mrlemon> whats the project that tries to recreate old windows tiling for linux 07:40 < jim> lainknight, I think his point is, that in his experience, gameplay is better on xp than it was on ubuntu 07:40 < stevendale> Most of my hardware is very low end and old, the OS overhead difference between XP and 7/10 is substantial and cuts 20+ FPS out of every game 07:40 < jim> better now that steam is here 07:40 < lainknight> The law should be you can only buy graphic cards for deep learning projects and mining crypto. 07:40 < mrlemon> anyway, it was nice chatting with all of you 07:41 < redv[madhatter]> neural networks > * 07:41 < mrlemon> i've been drinking rum and procrastinating 07:41 < mrlemon> i need to write an essay now lol (it's 2 am) 07:41 < mrlemon> later everyone 07:41 < jim> mrlemon, peace 07:41 < mrlemon> jim: peace :) 07:43 < jim> lainknight, the truth is that the video card industry depends on the gaming industry for customers to buy their cards 07:44 < stevendale> jim, That's right, and as long as there's new homemade indie games, Intel will keep pumping out iGPUs 07:44 < lainknight> jim: It's true, I'm just joking around. 07:45 < lainknight> Lot of people just play games way too much 07:45 < stevendale> I never go outside, more games the better 07:45 < lainknight> lol 07:46 < ||JD||> mmo's and porn is all what you need 07:47 < jim> stevendale, dude, you probably need to go outside, run around, exercise, learn to be social 07:47 < lainknight> lolll 07:47 < lainknight> Nah man 07:47 < stevendale> I'm very fit and strong jim 07:47 < stevendale> I do chinups in my bedroom 07:48 < lainknight> Yea Doritos and Mountain Dew have like 899g of protein per serving 07:49 < jim> dorritos, mountain dew, cigarretts, beer... 4 food groups, right? 07:49 < stevendale> I do five chinups in a row every time I wake up and again when I go to bed, every day, all year round, been doing it for three or four years 07:50 < sauvin> stevendale, you're supposed to do that with your OTHER chin. 07:50 < jim> start increasing to 6 07:50 < stevendale> I weigh like 60 or 65 kilograms so it's easy 07:50 < lainknight> sauvin: lol 07:50 < lainknight> Gotta get that 3rd chin above the bar or it doesn't count 07:50 < stevendale> wasn't when I started, I could barely do two in a row then 07:51 < jim> going out has other purposes, talking to strangers you meet, to learn to be social 07:52 < stevendale> I do that in TF2 voice chat 07:52 < lainknight> Hahahaha 07:52 < sky887> Is source code of any windows released? ? 07:52 < jim> not in person you don't :) 07:53 < jim> who knows, maybe if you learn to be social, your priorities will change... 07:54 < stevendale> These AIs in StarCraft II have double the actions per minute than me, and I still beat them 07:55 < stevendale> Come on Blizz, you can do better 07:57 < kopper> sky887: Not released but some of it has leaked afaik 07:57 < kopper> sky887: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/06/32tb-of-windows-10-beta-builds-driver-source-code-leaked/ 07:57 < sky887> Ok 08:05 < junka> are EXT2/3 obsoletes? 08:06 < tomty89> With the definition of ext4, probably not. 08:06 < stevendale> Yes junka, but they can still be useful for certain use cases, much like Win XP 08:06 < tomty89> Especially ext2. 08:07 < pingfloyd> ext4 is backward compatible with them 08:07 < pingfloyd> so go ext4 and you're covered for all of them 08:07 < tomty89> more like ext4 = ext2 + features? 08:08 < junka> yes like journal 08:08 < tomty89> and that's ext3 iirc 08:09 < tomty89> while ext4 doesn't mandate journaling, again iirc 08:10 < pingfloyd> more features 08:10 < tomty89> i think the point is, ext2/3/4 aren't independent implementations 08:10 < tomty89> and that's why you can't say ext2 is "obsolete" 08:11 < pingfloyd> there's not much point in formatting an FS to ext2/3 08:11 < pingfloyd> you may need to ext2/3 support for past created FSes though 08:13 < pingfloyd> ext4 is basically a superset of ext2/3 08:14 < SuperSeriousCat> ext2 vs ext4 for a /boot partition? 08:14 < SuperSeriousCat> Most distros use ext2, no? 08:15 < pingfloyd> I don't see much point to not use ext4 there too 08:17 < jim> SuperSeriousCat, maybe, but ext2 was around when slackware just came out 08:18 < jim> SuperSeriousCat, point being, that was a long time ago :) 08:19 < jim> maybe even 2 decades 08:20 < junka> will ext5 ever happen 08:20 < jim> maybe but I don't think linus likes extanything 08:20 < jim> on-disk data structures are too large 08:28 < CrazyTux> anyone tried Ubuntu 18.04 released yesterday? 08:31 < junka> many 08:32 < junka> try the appropriate channel 08:37 < jim> CrazyTux, how much have you learned about the linux command line and the commands in it? 08:39 < Mo> Hi, I got a 122 key layout keyboard, Model M, Unicomp. Too bad the firmware seems to be a Windows firmware, that means F13-F24 are sending Shift combinations, no dedicated keycodes. But according to the manufacturer it should send Shift-F1 for F13, but it doesn't, showkey says: ^[[1;2Qkeycode 42 press keycode 60 press, and it prints a 'Q' on the terminal. 08:39 < stevendale> When I get round to it I'll upgrade my Lubuntu 17.10 to 18.04 08:39 < stevendale> But upgrades means wasted time 08:40 < Mo> The manufacturer said "consider reviewing the keyboard keymap layout being used by your OS." I'm going to re-check with some live Linux or other machine, but I'm not aware I changed the keymap here on this machine, any idea? 08:41 < CrazyTux> jim, just enough to carry out some basic operations. 08:41 < Mo> I have only a 3 line ~/.Xmodmap in my users home, not affecting any Fx key. 08:52 < well_laid_lawn> Mo: the X log should give a clue what keyboard it thinks it is 08:54 < Mo> well_laid_lawn: But showkey shouldn't care about X, no? 08:54 < Mo> There are several points where Linux can remap keys, from X, xmodmap down to the kernel itself. 09:21 < sandman13> is VRRP/keepalived enough for load balancing? I thought it only provided high availability, and you need some other service for laod balancing like HAProxy 09:22 < Elleander> keepalived is for virtual IP 09:22 < Elleander> load balancing you make with e.g. ha proxy 09:23 < mauz555> hi there, is there a way to install linux kernel on an android phone (OPO) ? 09:24 < sandman13> Thanks 09:28 < pppingme> mauz555 android already runs a linux kernel 09:28 < pppingme> do "uname -a" to see 09:35 < sauvin_> pppingme, and how do you do a "uname -a" on a stock Android phone? 09:36 < bashq> If I do variable example with something like `${MYVAR}`, is there anything that I could set `MYVAR` to to cause the variable expansion to run a command? Or will variable expansion always treat the contents of the variable literally? 09:36 < pppingme> if you don't have anything that will bring up a terminal, download practically any terminal app, ssh app, or anything, and connect to localhost 09:36 < bashq> variable expansion* 09:38 < sauvin_> bashq, is an alias what you're looking for? 09:39 < bashq> sauvin_: I don't think so, I'm just curious that if I allow a user to pass in some env variable and I expand that variable with ${VAR}, can the user ever pass in some input that breaks my expansion? 09:40 < bashq> by breaks I mean gives them the ability to execute arbitrary code when the expansion is run 09:40 < sauvin_> bashq, try it and see. Try a few variations. And never, EVER forget that random users can vex and perplex you with all sorts of unforeseen stupidity. 09:41 < bashq> sauvin_: I've tried the obvious stuff like '$(....)' but it doesn't seem to actually run the command when it gets expanded, I was curious if there was maybe something I'm missing or if expansion is safe 09:41 < sauvin_> ./$(expand) THIS! 09:42 < p3rL> how do i mass kill this proces name /usr/sbin/httpd 09:42 < p3rL> 20 to 30 proces 09:42 < sauvin_> p3rL, do you know what that process is? 09:43 < sandman13> pgrep httpd | xargs kill 09:43 < p3rL> letme try ... 09:43 * sauvin_ rigs for impact 09:44 < sandman13> Prepare for trouble, make it double 09:44 < junka> does noatime imply nodiratime too? 09:45 < stevendale> Yes junka 09:45 < junka> ty stevendale 09:47 < p3rL> pkill -f httpd 09:47 < bashq> sauvin_: hmmm, I don't think that works either? Unless I'm mis-interpreting what you're saying. This is what I had in mind, https://hastebin.com/raw/etoyozoxey, can someone ever supply something for THEIRVAR such that when I call `${VAR}` it will give them arbitrary code execution? 09:47 < p3rL> thats work xD 09:47 < geirha> bashq: You forgot quotes. echo "$VAR" or echo "${VAR}", not echo ${VAR} 09:48 < bashq> geirha: yeah, you're right woops. 09:49 < geirha> with that code, there's nothing the user can put in the variable that will cause your script to execute any code, though. echo may alter the data before outputting, but apart from that, it should do what you expect 09:50 < bashq> geirha: great, thanks! :) 09:50 < geirha> if you want to make sure the data gets printed exactly as is, use printf. printf '%s\n' "$VAR" 09:50 < bashq> geirha: will do, thanks again. 10:11 < sauvin_> Zz. 10:31 < thebigj> Can anyone explain me what is /dev/mmcblk0? 10:34 < autopsy> thebigj, a block special file. 10:36 < autopsy> thebigj, it is for SD cards. 10:39 < kuri0> thebigj, sometimes for internal storage too 10:39 < kuri0> but unoften 10:39 < medfly> hi. how do I get information out of a kernel hang/crash? 10:40 < kuri0> Using commands how can I print all lines that start with "thing: " in a file ? 10:40 < kuri0> and make the printed output not include "thing: " 10:40 < kuri0> Like "thing: foo" becomes "foo" 10:40 < medfly> grep '^thing: ' file | sed 's,^thing: ,,' 10:40 < kuri0> ok ill try that 10:40 < thebigj> autopsy: Thanks for your answer. 10:41 < thebigj> kuri0: Thanks for answering. 10:41 < medfly> I am sure it can be done with just sed though 10:43 < kuri0> medfly, what about if i want to do that for foo#: 10:44 < kuri0> where # is any number 10:44 < medfly> foo[0-9]: 10:46 < kuri0> medfly, that doesn't work also my number are as big as 3000 10:46 < zeffy> why when i use command ls -la /bin says first total 14736 after that shows me all binaries from bin.. but there arent 14736 10:47 < zeffy> what means that number when i use ls -la over bin or sbin ... 10:47 < zeffy> on sbin says total : 19812 10:48 < zeffy> on desktop says total : 104 10:48 < zeffy> and i have only 10 files on desktop 10:48 < kuri0> zeffy, maybe size of the files in bytes ? 10:48 < zeffy> oh.. 10:48 < kuri0> move the files and see if it becomes zero 10:48 < zeffy> thx kuri0 10:48 < zeffy> appreciate :D 10:50 < medfly> here you go the one liner 10:50 < marataziat> d 10:50 < medfly> sed -n '/^thing: /{s/^thing: //p}' testfile 10:51 < medfly> actually, can do better 10:51 < medfly> sed -n 's/^thing: //p' testfile 10:51 < medfly> :-) 10:52 < Adolph> what does this command do? sudo mv /bin /dev/null 10:52 < medfly> Adolph: bad things, don't do it 10:53 < kuri0> medfly, no idea if i'm doing it correct but sed -n 's/^Patch[0-9][0-9][0-9][0-9]: //p' will remove all 4 digit numbers 10:53 < Adolph> medfly: so why would reddit tell me to do it? 10:54 < Adolph> they said it removes a certain type of virus 10:57 < kishore96> Adolph: Some people's idea of a joke. 10:58 < Adolph> kishore96: or maybe i know what it does 10:58 < Adolph> and im trolling you 10:58 < Adolph> ever think of that, nigger? 10:58 < Adolph> of course not. because you're too busy fucking chimpanzees 10:58 < kishore96> Umm... okay. 10:59 < kishore96> That escalated quickly. 11:06 < Aph3x-WL> marataziat had the right idea 11:11 < grauzikas> hello, i have setuped cpu governor to performance 11:11 < grauzikas> cpupower frequency-set --governor performance 11:12 < grauzikas> also changed freequency to static 11:12 < grauzikas> cpupower frequency-set --max 3400000 --min 3400000 11:12 < grauzikas> also tryed to disable what is possible in bios what can controll cpu voltage 11:12 < grauzikas> also tryed to set to max performance in bios 11:13 < iflema> ondemand is good 11:13 < grauzikas> nothing helps and system or bios still controlls freq 11:14 < grauzikas> https://pastebin.com/6QpEsBW7 11:14 < iflema> grauzikas: after a reboot it changes or never makes a difference? 11:14 < grauzikas> i`m checking instantly after changing 11:14 < grauzikas> after reboot it changes back to powersave 11:15 < grauzikas> probably an stupid motherboard an futher controlls it 11:15 < iflema> grauzikas: so the kernel is cofigured for powersave and no on-demand? 11:16 < iflema> there may be a boot flag you could add to bootloader or reconfigure the kernel to default to max 11:16 < iflema> grauzikas: ^ 11:16 < grauzikas> https://pastebin.com/0fXVqx2C 11:17 < grauzikas> i dont need turbo boost i want to make it work stable :) 11:17 < iflema> grauzikas: this is your custom kernel? 11:18 < grauzikas> no, it is an virtualization system kernel (i`m running on this machine few virtuals) 11:19 < iflema> what is this madness? 11:20 < grauzikas> openvz 7 (virtuozzo) 11:20 < grauzikas> there may be a boot flag you could add to bootloader or reconfigure the kernel to default to max 11:20 < grauzikas> how to do that 11:20 < grauzikas> in /boot/grub2/grub.cfg ? 11:21 < iflema> /etc/default/grub 11:21 < iflema> or some such 11:21 < iflema> you could edit other but ill get wiped 11:21 < grauzikas> what exact flag is it? 11:21 < iflema> actually you cant 11:21 < grauzikas> :) 11:21 < iflema> oh yeah you can 11:22 < iflema> you just have no on-demand 11:22 < iflema> hang on 11:27 < iflema> there is a powersave=off but i dont know? There is a list in the kernel docs. May nee a kenel reconfigure? 11:27 < iflema> grauzikas: ^ 11:27 < stevendale> Hey 11:27 < cousteau> what does it mean if the first 1MB of a drive (/dev/sdb) is all zeros? 11:28 < stevendale> Stopped using Windows altogether 11:28 < stevendale> Running EVE Online in Wine now 11:28 < iflema> cousteau: no partion table. just add one 11:28 < cousteau> ok 11:28 < cousteau> *100 MB 11:29 < iflema> cousteau: sounds like some started zeroing drive and was impatient 11:29 < cousteau> does this mean it's a new (never used before) drive? 11:29 < iflema> but that is enough to take out the partition table 11:29 < cousteau> when I said "1 MB" I meant "I didn't check the rest" 11:29 < cousteau> btw what's a fast way to check if a drive is empty (all zeros)? 11:30 < cousteau> it's 8GB and I don't feel like dd'ing all of it 11:30 < stevendale> Wine devel 3.6 is working good ^_^ 11:30 < iflema> cousteau: how you know all zeros? 11:30 < cousteau> I want to know if it's all zeros 11:31 < iflema> cousteau: you said it was 11:31 < cousteau> I checked that the first 100 MB was all zeros by doing sudo dd if=sdb bs=1M count=100 | hd 11:31 < iflema> cousteau: who cares? 11:31 < stevendale> iflema, I do, actually 11:31 < cousteau> ...just in case there actually is info in it 11:31 < BCMM> iflema: are you unfamiliar with the English word "if"? 11:31 < iflema> format it the tables gone. if it important data wait 11:31 < stevendale> You should run photorec on that drive cousteau 11:32 < cousteau> stevendale, yep, that might be a good idea 11:32 < iflema> lol 11:32 < cousteau> it wasn't mine anyway 11:32 < iflema> so dont touch 11:32 < iflema> simple 11:32 < BCMM> cousteau: is the objective to recover data, or to make sure there is no data for somebody else to recover later? 11:32 < cousteau> so I didn't lose anything myself... but my friend might 11:33 < cousteau> BCMM, in my case it was the latter 11:33 < cousteau> but my friend just went by my table, said "...so there's nothing on it, right? Alright then, give it to me :(" 11:33 < cousteau> I just wanted to make sure that "no data on the first 1MB" meant "no partition table" 11:34 < BCMM> cousteau: https://superuser.com/a/559855 seems like a good answer 11:34 < iflema> its 512k iirc 11:34 < BCMM> i don't know what "don't feel like dd'ing all of it" means - it's inevitable that the entire disk needs to be read for this task 11:34 < cousteau> BCMM, I did exactly that but with hd because I like hex more than octal :) 11:35 < BCMM> but assuming the issue is that you don't want it to mess up your terminal, that's a solution 11:35 < cousteau> in fact I was doing dd ... | hd | wc -l 11:35 < cousteau> and checking if I was getting 3 11:36 < cousteau> "dd'ing all of it" meaning both "reading all of it" (which seems indeed inevitable) and "saving all of it to a file" 11:36 < grauzikas> iflema: i`ll try to search about that 11:37 < cousteau> iflema, ah I thought it was 512B :I 11:37 < iflema> grauzikas: or a script to set it at/after boot 11:37 < iflema> cousteau: 512k will get it 11:37 < iflema> lol 11:38 < cousteau> 512B might be the MBR 11:38 < grauzikas> iflema: but i cant make cpu freq stable in any way :) 11:40 < iflema> grauzikas: where is this fing hosted? 11:40 < iflema> grauzikas: is there acually a problem with cpu loads? 11:40 < grauzikas> at office 11:40 < grauzikas> :) 11:41 < iflema> grauzikas: or just bored? 11:41 < grauzikas> everything is fine with cpu loads, but i want to make stable cpu freq simply for testing some my scripts timing 11:44 < grauzikas> may be disable at all pstate driver? 11:44 < grauzikas> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="intel_pstate=disable" 11:46 < iflema> grauzikas: oh yeah... no idea 11:48 < iflema> grauzikas: whaabout =passive? 11:48 < grauzikas> something changed after disabling 11:49 < grauzikas> https://pastebin.com/6PLqUYJ9 11:49 < grauzikas> an another driver is used 11:49 < grauzikas> acpi-cpufreq 11:50 < grauzikas> YES :) 11:50 < grauzikas> works 11:51 < grauzikas> now i can use: cpupower frequency-set --max 3400000 --min 3400000 11:51 < iflema> grauzikas: =disabled? there is a =passive 11:51 < iflema> safer? 11:52 < grauzikas> 2 thinks what i did 11:53 < grauzikas> 1: added in grub crashkernel=auto quiet intel_pstate=disable LANG=en_US.UTF-8 11:53 < grauzikas> intel_pstate=disable 11:53 < grauzikas> after that loaded another driver acpi-cpufreq 11:53 < grauzikas> acpi-cpufreq was loaded automaticaly 11:54 < grauzikas> intel_pstate had only performance and powersave 11:54 < grauzikas> acpi-cpufreq has conservative userspace powersave ondemand performance 12:00 < TwistedFate> Hello, how can I force hardware acceleration in Firefox 59? 12:04 < kaushal> Hi 12:05 < kaushal> is there a way to find out the actual memory consumption process wise? 12:05 < kaushal> when i am running free -h i get Mem: 14G 11G 863M 378M 2.5G 2.6G 12:05 < kaushal> total used free shared buff/cache available 12:06 < kaushal> let me use pastebin service 12:06 < kaushal> http://pastebin.centos.org/709281/ 12:06 < kaushal> How do i find out which all processes are using memory? 12:07 < iflema> kaushal: top 12:07 < Triffid_Hunter> kaushal: top 12:07 < kaushal> Triffid_Hunter: ok 12:08 < iflema> or ps if its not enough 12:08 < kaushal> Triffid_Hunter: can i add it up? 12:08 < Triffid_Hunter> kaushal: top does that for you, and strict adding doesn't work well because many different processes will share stuff like libraries 12:08 < kaushal> basically the server is with 16 GB RAM 12:08 < kaushal> Triffid_Hunter: ok 12:09 < djph> iflema: ps aux <- look at the 'RSS' column 12:09 < Triffid_Hunter> kaushal: top looks prettier in multipane mode with colour, press Azazazaza while inside ;) 3rd (blue/purple) pane is memory 12:09 < djph> but anyway, you've got ~2GB free 12:09 < djph> *2.5 12:09 < iflema> not me 12:09 < iflema> 2GB total 12:09 < iflema> here 12:10 < iflema> neck 12:11 < djph> iflema: whoops ... it's too early, should've tagged kaushal 12:11 < kaushal> Triffid_Hunter: 3rd (blue/purple) pane is memory 12:11 < kaushal> i dont see it 12:11 < thebigj> https://dpaste.de/zfHR/raw this is a sample file which I am using sfdisk to generate the partition type. 12:12 < thebigj> Here, I am not able to find meaning of "Id" filed. 12:12 < thebigj> I have gone through the documentation of fdisk 12:14 < mawk> hi 12:15 < djph> thebigj: forget *where* in the manpages it is - wikipedia has a list though https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_type 12:18 < thebigj> djph: Thanks! 12:20 < mawk> more than 8 hours to update my MX records 12:20 < mawk> thanks namecheap 12:20 < mawk> that's 8 hours of lost mail 12:20 < mawk> even in their own DNS authoritative server it's not updated yet 12:21 < mawk> it's like they scheduled the zone update job in 24 hours 12:21 < iflema> djph see also? google? =) 12:21 * iflema remember the 83 12:22 < djph> iflema: hmm? 12:22 < djph> mawk: sounds about right 12:23 < djph> mawk: unless servers have already exhausted their retries, it'll show up today/tomorrow anyway 12:23 < mawk> it won't even start to propagate if the authoritative server isn't updated 12:24 < iflema> djph: see also... where is "Id" filed :P 12:24 < iflema> lol 12:24 < iflema> nvm 12:24 < Truxx> Does "yank" mean copy or paste? 12:24 < mawk> paste 12:24 < iflema> copy 12:24 < mawk> no, paste 12:25 < iflema> cut and paste 12:25 < iflema> yy 12:25 < mawk> kill and yank 12:25 < iflema> dd 12:25 < mawk> is cut and paste 12:25 < mawk> in emacs language 12:25 < iflema> eww 12:25 < Truxx> Thanks, glad it's cleared now. 12:25 < iflema> oposite in vi language 12:25 < iflema> :P 12:25 < mawk> lier 12:25 < Truxx> Yes, I read it in emacs tutorial. 12:28 < Truxx> Is "yank" generally usable though in the linux world for "paste"? 12:28 < Truxx> I mean apart from emacs? 12:28 < iflema> is say no 12:28 < iflema> s/is/id 12:28 < iflema> id say copy 12:29 < iflema> maybe cut 12:29 * iflema maybe troll 12:29 < hendrix> Truxx: it's used also in Vim and some other TUI/CLI -programs 12:30 < hendrix> not in GUI-world 12:30 < Truxx> hendrix: Is it used in the sense of "paste"? 12:30 < hendrix> Truxx: no, it's 'copy' 12:31 < iflema> context 12:31 < iflema> ? 12:31 < Truxx> Ok, I see, thank you. 12:31 * iflema is everything 12:31 < hendrix> in Vim, paste is just paste 12:32 < PaulVern> what's this tool the guy uses to show cpu stats, etc over the top of his wine game? https://youtu.be/oc6ccJY6RTg?t=304 12:32 < mawk> in emacs it's paste 12:32 < mawk> stop lying to Truxx 12:32 < mawk> kill/yank is cut/paste 12:32 < mawk> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Yanking.html 12:34 < Triffid_Hunter> kaushal: https://i.imgur.com/LOaJRAL.png 12:40 < BluesKaj> Howdy folks 12:40 < Armand> Mernin 12:51 < BluesKaj> hey Armand 12:51 < Armand> o/ 12:51 < noodlepie> Hiya Armand BluesKaj! Good days to your sirs! 12:52 < BluesKaj> Hi noodlepie same to you :-) 12:53 < noodlepie> @:P-~ 13:00 < jken> Hello, I am having an issue writing a raw disk image out to a disk in an IOT device. The image has a GPT type and contains 2 partitions, EFI and / (ext4). When I dd this image to the drive, and then check it with fdisk -l, I only see a single parition on the drive of GPT (rather than EFI System) and of course it does not boot. Can anyone help me figure this out? 13:00 < jken> I also see "GPT PMBR size mismatch" when checking fdisk -l 13:02 < stennowork> good day, assuming i have a bunch of files called like some.prefix.a.txt, some.prefix.b.txt, some.prefix.foo.txt, is there a convenient way to remove the some.prefix. of each filename? 13:02 < stennowork> so the result should just be a.txt, b.txt, foo.txt 13:02 < stennowork> as in, actually renaming the file 13:02 < stennowork> s 13:08 < noodlepie> man rename 13:08 < BluesKaj> jken, do you have a uefi boot partition ? 13:09 < noodlepie> emerge/apt-get install renameutils too 13:09 < jken> BluesKaj, the image I am writing to the disk contains one. 13:09 < noodlepie> http://www.nongnu.org/renameutils/ 13:11 < BluesKaj> jken, using dd? 13:11 < jken> BluesKaj, yes. Forgive the literal screen shot, but where is fdisk -l showing the disk i wrote to first, then the image I wrote to it.. blob:https://imgur.com/73322204-89a1-4e30-ac52-13bdf63d8226 13:12 < noodlepie> Speakers in my laptop still don't work. Headphones do though. Is it some issue with an amplifier? 13:13 < BluesKaj> jken, imgur is erroring out 13:14 < jken> BluesKaj, oops, https://imgur.com/a/bDOaZlg 13:16 < BluesKaj> jken, don't think you can use gpt on a sd card, afaik it requires a dos table and fat 32 13:17 < Ben64> you can do whatever you want on a storage device 13:17 < jken> I would have never assumed the type of storage device mattered :/ 13:17 < Ben64> but to be approved by the sd card coalition or whatever, it has to be blahblahblah 13:17 < Ben64> like exfat if over blah GB 13:18 < Ben64> but we're free to use it in any way ourselves 13:18 < BluesKaj> oh lord 13:18 < jken> I am generating my images with mkosi, so I think its vfat. 13:19 < BluesKaj> ok nm,.never heard of that 13:19 < jken> BluesKaj, hold up.. is my / parition just to big? 13:19 < BluesKaj> not as long as the the target is larger than the input file 13:20 < jken> I think I might be just over.. 13:20 < jken> looking back at my fdisk output. 13:20 < BluesKaj> there's you problem then 13:20 < BluesKaj> your 13:21 < jken> phew, ill regenerate an image with a smaller / partition and hope thats all the problem is. 13:21 < jken> BluesKaj, just checked one of these devices I installed debian on manually and it works fine with a GPT table on the SD card 13:23 < BluesKaj> jken, ok, I learned something new today ..always thought sd cards were restricted to dos and fat32 13:23 < jken> it might not be a "real" sd cards in my case. It is embedded in the device and directly on the board. 13:24 < BluesKaj> for writing iso images to that is 13:24 < BluesKaj> ok looked like it was an rpi or some such 13:24 < djph> BluesKaj: nah, now that they're stupid big, they'll do NTFS / exFAT / etc. as well. 13:25 < BluesKaj> djph, right 13:26 < debikad> It is all about money 13:26 < djph> speaking of ... wonder what an engineer from the 40s/50s/60s would think about our drives today 13:26 < BluesKaj> he wouldn'r beleive it 13:27 < BluesKaj> believe it 13:27 < djph> IKR, storage media that's the size of a thumbnail, holding billions of bytes of data... 13:27 < BluesKaj> think I need more coffee 13:27 < BCMM> i still have difficulty believing in terrabytes 13:28 < BCMM> the only thing weirder than "a trillion" being an actual number that exists in real life is the fact that i don't feel like it's enough 13:28 < BluesKaj> djph, the sd card can't handle too many format wipes tho 13:29 < debikad> that's correct 13:29 < djph> BluesKaj: yeah, but it only needs to handle one :) 13:31 < noodlepie> Ah-he-oh-nah and the record hots... Poeple come and people go and people want to die. Don't ask me because I don't know why but its like that and that's the way it is.. :P 13:31 < fendur> BCMM: not just a number, but a number of things/places that are kept track of in a tiny little box 13:32 < thebigj> How the size as sector given as input to "sfdisk" works? 13:32 < BCMM> fendur: yeah, i'm ok with their being trillions of stars in the universe 13:32 < BCMM> fendur: just not so much with actually owning a trillion of anything 13:32 < thebigj> I am trying to debug one shell script written. 13:33 < fendur> heh. ownership does add a nuance. 13:33 < thebigj> That script is creating various paritions to SD card. 13:33 < BCMM> everything about the scale of modern computers is bizarre 13:34 < djph> thebigj: think that's in the manpage (although it does say "don't use this if you don't know what you're doing") 13:34 < BCMM> light travels about 10cm between cpu clock pulses 13:34 < djph> BCMM: WE CAN DO BETTER! 13:35 < thebigj> djph: Checked manuals but I am trying to find the relation of parition size it is creating in GB with the given sector size and start position. 13:36 < drayz> hello 13:36 < djph> well, sectors are usually standard sizes (I think modern drives are 2048KB) 13:37 < djph> *2048B 13:37 < drayz> Can I ask general questions here? 13:37 < djph> pay no attention to my suck typing 13:37 < djph> drayz: you just did. 13:37 < drayz> djph well, it was a risk i was willing to take 13:37 < djph> ;) 13:38 < drayz> well I guess I'll throw this out there and see if anyone knows what im getting at. 13:38 < thebigj> How can I identify sector size of the storage medium? 13:38 < djph> thebigj: fdisk -l 13:38 < thebigj> djph: Yes, did the same and found it. Thanks! 13:38 < djph> well, that'll at least tell you what the drive *thinks* the sector size is 13:38 < jesopo> I'm trying to set up a secondary loopback interface that gets resolved, by unrealircd, as something other than "localhost" and it aint working 13:38 < jesopo> any ideas? 13:38 < drayz> I'm new to linux. I love what I have seen so far. I decided learning to use the terminal properly was the first port of call. 13:39 < drayz> i setup ubuntu server on some old hardware, so deep end for me in terms of no GUI 13:39 < Zajt> Hey! I am trying to compile fmem on Ubuntu 16.04(through USB, I chose Try ubuntu without installing), but when I run make, I get these errors: https://pastebin.com/YypyG2gg 13:39 < drayz> im finding it a little overwhelming but i have been told running a GUI on a low powered server is bad 13:39 < Zajt> Is there any way I can solve this? 13:39 < drayz> is there a super lightweight GUI i can download/enable/install to help me a little but that wont massively impact the server performance? 13:39 < drayz> or is that just dumb and should I git gud 13:40 < fendur> drayz: there are lots of variations on "gui." certainly some heavier than others. 13:40 < ||JD||> what are your specs? 13:40 < fendur> drayz: an extreme example is DWM, which is barely a gui :P 13:40 < fendur> that's not true. It's totally a gui and I love it. 13:40 < djph> drayz: in general, GUIs aren't on servers because they're headless :) 13:41 < drayz> @fendur ok cool so its not too bad to get one then? 13:41 < jken> Anyone know why after dd'ing an image, after DD says its finised, it continues to write to the drive? Running `sync` just hangs 13:41 < djph> drayz: there's nothing stopping you from installing X programs, and then say SSH-forwarding the X session to your local x server (i.e. PC) 13:41 < BCMM> jken: the filesystem and kernel lied to you, basically 13:41 < fendur> drayz: I think you'll find something to suit you. 13:42 < djph> jken: because while "dd" is done, the system isn't finished writing from buffers. 13:42 < drayz> @djph that was my intention but even though this server is headless, it seems to be a massive pain when finding various different files and folders to install applications I want 13:42 < BCMM> jken: and sync didn't "hang", it's just waiting until stuff is actually synced to disk before exiting. which is what sync does. 13:42 < drayz> I find sourcing packages via the browser is much faster 13:42 < djph> drayz: apt-get install 13:42 < jken> ill keep waiting then, thanks djph / BCMM 13:42 < djph> ? 13:42 < drayz> like ill do sudo apt-get install (whatever) and 99% of the time it wont find it 13:42 < fendur> drayz: I've found several web pages dedicated to resource-light window managers for linux 13:43 < djph> drayz: probably because you spelled the package name wrong 13:43 < drayz> @fendur you have?!? thank you! 13:43 < BCMM> drayz: "different files and folders to install applications i want" - what's wrong with your package manager? 13:43 < fendur> drayz: well, that apt result seems like aproblem, unless you're typing in bogus package names. 13:43 < drayz> @djph good example - teamviewer (not literally used in this case, but a popular application that doesnt immediately install when entered) 13:44 < BCMM> drayz: downloading stuff in your browser, extracting it, and running it like on windows is a terrible habit 13:44 < djph> drayz: e.g. if you wanted to install (I dunno) the headless java8, the package is openjdk-8-jre-headless 13:44 < BCMM> drayz: you won't get automatic security updates, for one thing 13:44 < drayz> @BCMM djph ok, but how do I learn what its called, do I just need to list the available packages? 13:44 < BCMM> drayz: you can use `apt search`, or you can search the Ubuntu site to get the name of the package 13:45 < drayz> @BCMM noted about the bad habit! 13:45 < fendur> drayz: apt search term, where term is a word you'd expect to see describing the package 13:45 < djph> teamviewer is, iirc a standalone package ... you'd install it with dpkg -i teamviewer_major-minor-version.deb 13:45 < drayz> you see this is what amazes me... 13:45 < drayz> literally one term (apt search) has solved this issue for me 13:45 < djph> hahahahaha 13:45 < BCMM> drayz: it's worth noting that the package manager does it a lot more than just "unattended installation", windows style 13:45 < drayz> so I think I generally do just need to learn more! 13:45 < drayz> sorry guys! 13:46 < djph> drayz: note, it *might* be "apt-cache search" 13:46 < fendur> someone point this guy to a good book 13:46 < drayz> @BCMM as in it does more, like updates etc 13:46 < BCMM> drayz: ubuntu maintains a huge repo of packages built specifically to integrate well with each other 13:46 < BCMM> drayz: apt will automatically install the libraries an application needs, for example 13:46 < BCMM> drayz: it will keep them updated 13:46 < djph> fendur: I know dozens ... they don't tell you "basic(tm)" stuff like "working with apt" :| 13:46 < BCMM> drayz: it will *remember what files it installed*, so you can automatically uninstall the package later 13:46 < drayz> @BCMM so if I want to download and use a particularly esoteric application that some dude has made 13:47 < fendur> djph: yeah, that's what he needs! I don't know those either. 13:47 < BCMM> (whereas with `make install`, you're just dumping files to the disk and forgetting about it) 13:47 < djph> drayz: then you get to work through dependency hell :) 13:47 < drayz> @bcmm on windows you would go to his site, but on linux do I need to ferret around in the folders in the terminal after connecting to his site? 13:47 < BCMM> drayz: always try to avoid installing things like that to standard locations like /usr/bin. use the /usr/local directory or your home directory for stuff like that 13:47 < djph> BCMM: good news is that usually the makefile also includes a "make uninstall" or "make remove" (if it's a decent makefile) 13:48 < BCMM> drayz: on linux, you usually don't have to think about what folders you're installing in. you just install it with apt and be done with it. 13:48 < drayz> @BCMM cool I suspected as much, I felt a bit weird not 'feeling' my way through the folder structure before installing somethin 13:48 < drayz> I guess its more productive 13:48 < BCMM> drayz: but yes, when you find the site for a piece of software, and that software has download options for windows, linux and macos, you should stop and check if your distro has it packaged 13:49 < djph> drayz: "it depends". If you're compiling from source, it's usually something like "run the config script, do the compilation, do the install". However, apt ("the app store(tm)") is quite a bit easier. 13:49 < BCMM> drayz: not just go straight for the download and manually install it like on windows 13:49 < fendur> drayz: you can master the folder structure and its etiology another day 13:49 < BCMM> drayz: if you're curious about what `apt install packagename` has actually done, you can do `dpkg -L packagename`, to see a list of files belonging to that package 13:50 < drayz> @bcmm im writing this down with a pen and paper lol 13:50 < fendur> drayz: amazon MUST have a great reference guide for someone just like you. 13:50 < fendur> and it's probably like $12. 13:51 < drayz> in terms of being a better linux administrator: I find coming from windoze that there is a whole lot of lost visibility only having the terminal 13:51 < fendur> that's an illusion. 13:51 < azarus> 'lost visibility'? 13:51 < drayz> like, how do I see what server applications are running, how much badnwidth they are using etc 13:51 < fendur> drayz: go find that book! 13:51 < azarus> drayz: top? 13:51 < BCMM> drayz: you *will* come across the occasional application that just isn't included in ubuntu. especially niche "just some guy on github" applications. but it's good practice to keep manual installations to the minimum 13:51 < drayz> @BCMM no worries 13:51 < drayz> @fendur i will 13:52 < BCMM> drayz: that means fewer packages where you're responsible for security updates, fewer packages where you're responsible for checking compatibility with other packages, etc. 13:52 < fendur> drayz: if anything, you gain tons of visibility. you just have to learn the tools. and better to do that from a book than a bunch of weirdos in ##linux :) 13:52 < BCMM> drayz: `top` will show you running process. find out what's using cpu, memory, etc. 13:52 < drayz> @BCMM that makes logical sense 13:52 < drayz> does there reach a point 13:52 < drayz> where I know all the commands 13:53 < drayz> and I become enlightened to the point of being similar to the Architect in the Matrix? 13:53 < BCMM> drayz: package management is a bit of a mindset shift, coming from windows, but it's all so much less trouble after a while 13:53 < fendur> drayz: 25 years now, and no, for me. 13:53 < drayz> I feel like I want to know everything, at all times 13:53 < BCMM> because the system is handling so much stuff so you don't have to 13:53 < noodlepie> Linux kernel 4.16.5-gentoo stable here. 13:53 < drayz> @BCMM its those comfort zones you get into with windows that its good to be aware of 13:54 < fendur> 23 years... 13:54 < BCMM> drayz: it suppose it's as if every application was an optional windows component, and windows update handled all of them 13:55 < BCMM> now that's a bad example because windows update is kind of horrible sometimes, but you get the idea 13:55 < drayz> @bcmm yup definitiely 13:57 < Triffid_Hunter> drayz: heh linux actually has vastly *better* visibility of all things than windows, you just gotta learn how to access it.. 13:57 < Triffid_Hunter> drayz: learn how to use top, htop, iotop, iptraf, etc :P 13:57 < Triffid_Hunter> drayz: even a simple 'ps faux' can tell you plenty 13:57 < drayz> @triffid_hunter thanks 13:58 < Triffid_Hunter> drayz: maybe even have a long wander around in /sys, grep . * is very useful there 13:58 < drayz> is there a "ctrl-f" feature for bash shell? Like i just printed a search list of lots of packages, but scrolling through them is a nightmare 13:59 < BCMM> drayz: nethogs is a very nice TUI program for visualising network usage by process, by the way 13:59 < djph> drayz: apt-cache search | less 13:59 < drayz> thank you 13:59 < BCMM> drayz: you can pipe to less as djph says. / is the search key in / 13:59 < djph> once it's in the pager -> "/searchterm" 13:59 < fendur> my guess is drayz is getting overwhelmed. 13:59 < djph> fendur: "getting" ? :) 13:59 < fendur> baby steps, y'all 13:59 < BCMM> drayz: you might also have a search facility available in your terminal emulator, depending on what you're using for that 14:00 < BCMM> drayz: where you ever familiar with the command line on windows/DOS? 14:00 < drayz> @BCMM i'm actually using teamviewer on my headless, remote machine. Im trying to foward ports so I can use SSH properly but its a pain on my consumer router 14:00 < drayz> so no emulation 14:01 < drayz> @djph thanks for the tip about piping 14:01 < BCMM> s/where/were/ 14:01 < BCMM> drayz: because dos and unix both have a `more` command, to split output up in to pages 14:02 < djph> BCMM: less is more :) 14:02 < BCMM> `less` is so named because it's just like `more`, except you can scroll up as well as down 14:02 * noodlepie looks forward to GNU HURD/HERD. Its interfaces and user mounted filesystems look good. 14:02 < fendur> lol 14:03 < noodlepie> @:P-~ 14:03 < djph> people have been waiting for HURD since 199x. 14:03 < azarus> and less can search, scroll sideways, do regex... you name it 14:03 < BCMM> drayz: as an alternative to apt search, you can also use the ubuntu website to find package names, and then type those package names in to the terminal 14:03 < drayz> @BCMM not really but that gives surprisingly good context 14:03 < djph> I'd say it's like waiting for Duke Nukem Forever ... but that got released. 14:03 < BCMM> djph: i was so sure DNF was going to be a HURD exclusive title :( 14:04 < fendur> djph: do you remember duke3d? 14:04 < BCMM> drayz: https://packages.ubuntu.com/ 14:04 < djph> BCMM: hahahaha 14:05 < drayz> i just googled HURD 14:05 < noodlepie> Anyone know how to configure SAMBA with some kind of tool? There used to be one called "swat"/ 14:05 < noodlepie> :P 14:05 < drayz> in development for 27 years 14:05 < drayz> what the hell 14:06 < fendur> it's going to be... amazing 14:06 < BCMM> drayz: in software development, there's always a compromise between "getting it done" and "doing it properly" 14:06 < fendur> that's a joke. forget about HURD 14:06 < azarus> drayz: 'in development' more like in abandonnement 14:06 < BCMM> drayz: hurd is the extreme end of "doing it properly" 14:06 < azarus> it was dead before it was born, really 14:06 < noodlepie> netpipes and "E language" promises should rip on HURD 14:06 < drayz> ok so i just ran apt-cache search 14:07 < drayz> and the screen went black with a kind of GUI and i had no idea how to quit 14:07 < drayz> ctrl-c didnt even work 14:07 < drayz> then i accidentally pressed q 14:07 < drayz> this is some esoteric shit but i love it 14:07 < noodlepie> GNU is the best OS. I've tried Atari GEM, Acorn RISCOS and Windows. GNU is better than them all put together! @:P-~ 14:08 < drayz> noodlepie you have never used a mac? 14:08 < noodlepie> pah, fakakta apple shite 14:08 < drayz> but how do you know if you havent used it 14:08 < azarus> eh, i actively avoid GNU 14:08 < noodlepie> i actively hate proprietary software. 14:08 < Triffid_Hunter> drayz: I've used OSX, can't handle it.. won't let me do so much stuff :/ 14:08 < BCMM> it's actually a lot like duke nukem forever. when DNF got close to being finished, they'd usually port to a new engine. with HURD, they port to a new microkernel instead. 14:08 < drayz> @noodlepie I totally get it, i dont like it either and dont use OSX 14:09 < noodlepie> I've tried macos. i used to work in an Internet Cafe which had apple clients. They were'nt interesting. :( 14:09 < noodlepie> Anyone heard of http://www.AtariBox.com./ It's an Atari Linux games console with open source games 14:10 < noodlepie> Some guy from the local newspaper tried to teach me quark. I'll use scribus thanks! 14:10 < drayz> who are you talking to 14:10 < drayz> me? 14:11 < drayz> I dont know those words :( 14:11 < drayz> i will google them and come back to you 14:11 < djph> drayz: who? noodlepie? Fairly certain he's one of the resident village idiots. 14:11 < BCMM> drayz: don't worry, noodlepie is typically talking to himself :) 14:11 < drayz> ah ok 14:12 < drayz> well whatever he is talking about he seems very enthusiastic 14:12 < drayz> so thats a big thumbs up from me 14:12 < drayz> what is life if we dont have enthusiasm 14:13 < azarus> And I'm enthusiastic about ethnic cleansing. Does that get a thumbs up as well? 14:13 < azarus> ;P 14:13 < noodlepie> irc! The new way to take personal notes! @:P-~ 14:13 < drayz> azarus well why dont you share with the class then 14:13 < drayz> explain your passion like noodlepie did 14:14 < drayz> ok back on topic 14:15 < drayz> so i was using apt-cache search 14:15 < drayz> but the result either took me to some interface i couldnt navigate 14:15 < drayz> or didnt do anything, it just printed a blank line 14:15 < drayz> why is it inconsistent? 14:15 < drayz> the same is true of apt search [term] 14:15 < djph> what was the full command you used? 14:16 < drayz> sudo apt-cache [search term] then I modified it to include less with | less 14:17 < drayz> the less one didnt do anything 14:18 < djph> if it was empty, then there was likely no output to pipe to less 14:18 < djph> in that case you would have had a blank screen with ":" at the bottom. You can quit out of less with "q" 14:20 < spreeuw> just switched from LFS to ubuntu 18 14:21 < drayz> thank you! 14:21 < spreeuw> that default wm is ew 14:21 < drayz> @djph i just installed w3m ... this is some incredible programming... how on earth did someone write this 14:21 < djph> drayz: with a keyboard 14:21 < spreeuw> w3m hmm too bad it doesnt allow dynamic columns opr layout 14:22 < spreeuw> after years of ion3 use I settled on the windows 10 type tiling 14:22 < spreeuw> it suffices 14:22 < spreeuw> 2 columns 2 rows 14:23 < azarus> drayz: there's also lynx and links 14:23 < azarus> but w3m actually supports image displaying 14:23 < azarus> (in xterm) 14:23 < spreeuw> I doubt thats related to the wm 14:23 < azarus> dwm ftw 14:24 < noodlepie> Someone once said to me "Linux is like Mana from Heaven". 14:24 < noodlepie> Heaven is the infinites (there are lots of these) beyond our finite Universe 14:25 < noodlepie> God lives there :P 14:27 < Armand> noodlepie: I am your God. 14:28 < noodlepie> nope, Yahweh is my God. He's so humble and such a friend. 14:28 < noodlepie> Free software is such a Theistic practice 14:28 < Armand> Yeah, that's me, dude. 14:29 < noodlepie> God's Free Software operating system is called "The Holy Spirit". His computer is the big one outside, what with trees and heaps and all! 14:29 < Armand> hahaha 14:29 < noodlepie> @:P-~ 14:29 < BluesKaj> God doesn't refer to his subjects as dude , he's not from California :-) 14:30 < Armand> BluesKaj: Indeed.. neither am I. 14:30 < noodlepie> God is who freed the Egyptian slaves who built the pyramids. The freed workers became known as "Free and Accepted Masons" - or today, the FreeMasons. It just means we all work for money. 14:31 < BCMM> BluesKaj: somebody translated the bible in to skater parlance, in some misguided attempt to reach out to youth i guess? anyway, pretty sure god calls everybody "dude" in that. 14:31 < Armand> lol 14:31 < BluesKaj> "skater parlance" gimme a break 14:32 < drayz> someone told me that Linux is for people with autism. What shall I say to him? 14:32 < Armand> drayz: Nothing. 14:32 < sudo_halt> You can say that with that attitude nobody wants him in linux community anyways. 14:33 < sudo_halt> Its simple. 14:33 < djph> drayz: ^ 14:33 < BluesKaj> use the word "like" as every 4th word 14:33 < BCMM> drayz: are you familiar with the expression "don't feed the trolls"? 14:33 < djph> BluesKaj: fairly certain that's "Valley Girl" parlance 14:33 < drayz> I just said the following "thats, like, your opinion man" 14:33 < drayz> @blueskaj happy? 14:33 < djph> drayz: did you then proceed to make a White Russian? 14:34 < drayz> @djph i popped on my jelly sandals, slid into my robe and finished my glass of milk 14:34 < BluesKaj> djph, maybe, but I'm old and it doesn't matter where it comes from :-) 14:34 < djph> BluesKaj: haha 14:34 < djph> drayz: so close ... so, so close. Next time don't forget the alcohol. 14:37 < triceratux> https://paste.opensuse.org/986162 14:38 < triceratux> https://distrowatch.com/?newsid=10181 14:42 < djph> triceratux: so ... network mangler lives up to its name? 14:43 < mawk> lol 14:44 < sudo_halt> Whats with dnsmasq in ubuntu (and derivatives) distributions in an IPv4-only network? Having that on destroys my connection... 14:44 < triceratux> djph: NetworkMangler actually seems to tolerate & mitigate this stuff. its the premature deployment of systemd-resolved on 127.0.0.53 thats somewhat suspect. tumbleweed for example doesnt even compile the binary. thats exceptional 14:44 < mawk> what do you have against network manager triceratux ? 14:44 < mawk> or djph 14:45 < djph> triceratux: ah, I was just reading that *53 as being provided by netwokmangler. guess I misinterpreted the paste ? 14:46 < mawk> .53 is systemd-resolved 14:46 < djph> mawk: in trying to be helpful, it more often than not causes problems (like systemd, pulseaudio...) 14:46 < triceratux> djph: nope. NM is an innocent bystander ;) 14:46 < mawk> I found it very configurable 14:46 < mawk> way more than this terrible systemd-networkd thing 14:46 < djph> triceratux: fairly certain that's the first time I've ever seen *that* statement 14:47 < jml2> triceratux, good morning hahaha -- looked into, found out why NM behaves as it does, you can create -> ln -s /run/NetworkManager/resolv.conf and then -> /etc/NetworkManager/conf.d/my_dns.conf with "[main] dns=defalt" in it to get the legacy behaviour (you can also disable systemd-resolved) 14:47 < jml2> triceratux, the reason is because another .conf is being parsed with dns=systemd-resolved << 14:47 < jml2> triceratux, so having dns=default under that /etc folder will override dns=systemd-resolved... 14:48 < jml2> triceratux, ./default./ (typo) 14:48 < triceratux> jml2: great. finished the inventory. all the 18.04 dnsmasq installs will require hefty manual intervention because of this port 53 stuff. still have no clue about that 14:48 < djph> mawk: guess it depends on when you started using nix. I mean, network manager *has* gotten better over time. 14:48 < jml2> triceratux, I found out how to get legacy behaviour with systemd-resolved... it's merely a symlink and creating that my_dns.conf file... 14:49 < jml2> triceratux, it has to be "that" symlink which points to that specific .conf file (it is documented) 14:49 < mawk> yeah 14:49 < jml2> triceratux, and it is located somewhere on the large nm manpage... 14:49 < triceratux> forum posts, blogs, scripts. it will become a specialist discipline 14:50 < jml2> triceratux, (/run/NetworkManager/resolv.conf ) 14:50 < jml2> triceratux, which is documented as an exception and is treated special... 14:50 < triceratux> jml2: yep ive heard rumors about the specific symlinks & how theyre magically interpreted 14:50 < jml2> triceratux, tested here this morning... and it works perfect without systemd-resolved... 14:51 < jml2> triceratux, (i disabled and closed down systemd-resolved, and NM works as expected..) 14:51 < jml2> triceratux, so I know how these pieces work together now --> NM and systems-resolved... 14:51 < jml2> triceratux, according to a 2016 blog report from one of the NM devs, that systemd-resolved was being integrated/supported with NM... 14:52 < jml2> triceratux, so a number things keep getting added.. 14:52 < jml2> triceratux, but it is not statically built and fixed, it was dns= set far somewhere in /lib .. i can get the path... 14:53 < jml2> triceratux, yeah.. its that.. 14:53 < triceratux> jml2: im amazed that both f27 & altlinux have dnsmasq already installed. & altlinux is running systemd-resolved like its some kind of buntu, but actually succeeding 14:53 < jml2> triceratux, /usr/lib/NetworkMAnager/conf.d/10-dns-resolved.conf << that one.. 14:53 < jml2> triceratux, which has the dns=systemd-resolved 14:54 < jml2> triceratux,that was the ultimate culprit.. 14:54 < jml2> triceratux, so if you dont want it, then simply do that symlink and that override with dns=.. 14:55 < jml2> triceratux, you can also delete that 10-dns-resolved.conf file, but that wouldn't be the ideal solution (package updates will just reinstall it) 14:55 < triceratux> jml2: i see. yer way ahead of me. ive got that on xubuntu 18.04. it indeed says dns=systemd-resolved 14:55 < jml2> triceratux, very easy to fix, but one has to know who NM works... 14:56 < triceratux> jml2: so do you have dnsmasq installed & running on xubuntu 18.04 yet ? 14:56 < jml2> triceratux, btw, do not edit /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf -- instead create a .conf in the conf.d/ subfolder and use [section] heads before the directives.. 14:56 < jml2> triceratux, I was doing this incorrectly previously 14:58 < BluesKaj> I dropped NM for a while and went with a static setup in the interfaqces file , but had to install ifupdown , then discovered i also had to run dhclient in a small bash script at startup. So one can avoid NM , but dunno if the workaround is worth the trouble. 14:59 < jml2> BluesKaj, nm has a continue-and-quit option, so that it doesn't have to linger in ram once it sets up the interfaces.. 14:59 < jml2> BluesKaj, this is good, if you like efficiency of resources.. 15:04 < mawk> running dhclient in a script BluesKaj ? what do you mean 15:04 < mawk> using ifupdown it does that automatically 15:04 < mawk> you just specify iface eth0 inet dhcp 15:04 < mawk> it will run dhclient itself 15:05 < BluesKaj> mawk, I thought so too, but chrome wouldn't connect to the internet without sudo dhclient command 15:05 < jml2> triceratux, if dnsmasq is starting, then there's probably a "dns=dnsmasq" set in one of NM's system folders, and you should be able to override it the exact same way 15:06 < jml2> triceratux, if NM is not start dnsmasq, then you should disable the dnsmasq.service -- which is running outside the scope of NM (it's configuration would be /etc/dnsmasq.conf , rather than /etc/NetworkManager/dnsmas*.d) 15:07 < Psi-Jack> BluesKaj: In what distro? 15:07 < BluesKaj> mawk,ok didn't know about speifying iface eth0 inet dhcp 15:07 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, /that/ is important. :) 15:07 < mawk> auto eth0iface eth0 inet dhcp 15:07 < BluesKaj> kubuntu Bionic 18.04 15:07 < mawk> and a line about loopback, optionnally 15:08 < mawk> for a device that can be dynamically plugged, like a wifi key, you also add allow-hotplug 15:09 < BluesKaj> mawk, but one substirutes eth0 with the systemd ethernet NIC naming protocol, right ? 15:09 < mawk> yes 15:09 < mawk> eno1, enx8430984390843098439004, any interface name you have 15:09 < triceratux> jml2: all i get with apt-get install dnsmasq on xubuntu 18.04 is this: http://pastebin.centos.org/710151/raw/ i cant tell if its started, or startable, or what 15:10 < BluesKaj> `like enp0s7 or some such 15:10 < mawk> yeah 15:10 < BluesKaj> ok 15:10 < mawk> the worst I've seen is enx + mac address, that makes very long interface names 15:10 < Psi-Jack> BluesKaj: You mean "predictable ethernet", has nothing to do with systemd. 15:10 < mawk> on Ubuntu 15:11 < BluesKaj> oh realy Psi-Jack , I thought systemd was to blame for everything that is wrong with linux these days :-) 15:11 < Psi-Jack> It's not. 15:11 < BluesKaj> hehe 15:11 < jml2> triceratux, i thought that was covered yesterday lol 15:11 < jml2> triceratux, why do you want dnsmasq? 15:11 < BluesKaj> I missed that jml2 15:12 < jml2> triceratux, if something is causing dnsmasq to be installed as adependency and it is failing to install, then it is likely conflicting with something listening on port 53, ... if you wan tto fix this I can tell you 15:12 < triceratux> jml2: i dont. im just worried for simon kelleys sake. i dont want him to start sounding like jamie zawinski 15:12 < Psi-Jack> Seems today's going to be one of those Ubuntu 18.04 day 1 problems day. 15:13 < thebigj> Any good talks on btrfs? 15:13 < jml2> triceratux, simply stop systemd-resolved, have that dependency dnsmasq installed, on post-install just systemctl disable/stop them.. and done :) 15:13 < Psi-Jack> thebigj: Nope. 15:13 < thebigj> I am trying to learn btrfs. Thanks! 15:13 < jml2> triceratux, problem solved :) 15:13 < Psi-Jack> I'd recommend against it, thebigj. 15:14 < jml2> triceratux, if you're using that iso, then you'll need to accomodate your changes :P 15:14 < BluesKaj> a lot of 'buntu users are having a tough time upgrading their VM versions due to internet dropping out during the install 15:14 < thebigj> Psi-Jack: I have heard that btrfs is having faults (From this channel only). I would like to explore it and see what things it can provide. 15:15 < Psi-Jack> Well, goooood luck. Heh. The only people even working on btrfs these days is SUSE devs, and they claim it's rock solid, (while the world proves otherwise). 15:16 < Psi-Jack> Red Hat Software has officially pulled out of supporting btrfs, which is a serious statement. 15:16 < jml2> BluesKaj, systemd-network is something I'd like to get into... is it rock solid? 15:16 < triceratux> jml2: ok i just did a systemctl stop systemd-resolved & lost my dns so i started it up again 15:16 < djph> jml2: sure, if you consider small particles of rock (i.e. "sand") mixed with water "solid". 15:16 < mawk> they did that in favor of one of their own software Psi-Jack no ? 15:16 < mawk> or because of btrfs itself 15:16 < Psi-Jack> No 15:17 < BluesKaj> jml2, dunno for sure, not an expert on systemd networking or otherwise 15:17 < jml2> triceratux, yeah, so what about the dnsmasq dependency install? it was just to fix that... then disable/stop dnsmasq -- and start systemd-resolved again later if it's what you're after (you can download the dnsmasq package first before disabling systemd-resolved) 15:17 < Psi-Jack> mawk: because btrfs is literally unsupportable. 15:18 < jml2> triceratux, you can manually-temporarily use a static file /etc/resolv.conf with your namserver 192.168.1.1 while you fix things.. 15:18 < jml2> triceratux, then re-enable systemd-resolved... 15:18 < mawk> why ? 15:18 < jml2> triceratux, whatever you're tring to fix which is forcing you to install dnsmasq.... 15:18 < Psi-Jack> RHS will have something else in time, maybe, but they'll have developed it well before releasing it to the world. I mean, RHS has many high calibur filesystem developers in-house these days. XFS devs, Ceph devs, GlusterFS devs, etc. 15:18 < triceratux> jml2: that was my suspicion as well i just havent gotten there yet. its tough to work with when the dns keeps blinking out 15:19 < jml2> triceratux, ok then just use dns=default :) , and create that symlink .. and that won't do any blinking :) 15:19 < jml2> triceratux, you can disable systemd-resolved without any issues from that point.. 15:20 < jml2> triceratux, (systemctl stop NetworkManager, then create the symlink) 15:20 < jml2> triceratux, (and stop systemd-resolved) 15:20 < joekeilty> Can anyone recommend some good guides / tools / functions for outputting nicely formatted information to the terminal? Like any best practices etc. I want scripts that developers run have really easy to understand output, rather than lines and lines of text. 15:21 < jml2> joekeilty, you mean like banner ? 15:21 < triceratux> jml2: if i have to do all that in order to get a discretionary install of dnsmasq to succeed on 18.04 ubuntus i may park myself back in the "ubuntu is crap" camp, at least provisionally 15:21 < jml2> joekeilty, I have a smiley ascii in my /etc/motd... 15:21 < jml2> joekeilty, makes my users feel very welcomed :) 15:21 < joekeilty> Not for a login banner haha but that is a nice touch 15:22 < joekeilty> It is a provisioning script, I'd like it to have the information outputted by it to be well formatted, maybe colours to highlight parts of importance etc. 15:22 < jml2> triceratux, ok, but why/what is causing dnsmasq wanting to be installed? 15:22 < joekeilty> Otherwise you just get slapped across the face with a bunch of white text on black background and people won't read any of it 15:22 < noodlepie> joekeilty, GNU textutils would be a good start. 15:22 < jml2> triceratux, NM is happy enough with systemd-resolved, why would it want dnsmasq installed/ 15:23 < jml2> triceratux, there is a "dnsmasq-base" that is installed here... 15:23 < jml2> triceratux, not "dnsmasq" -- we both have the same distro.. 15:23 < triceratux> jml2: im installing dnsmasq myself because im trying to be 1337. i want my cached dns queries to drop to 0msec 15:23 < jml2> triceratux, (18.04) 15:24 < joekeilty> Thanks noodlepie I'll check that 15:24 < joekeilty> Can you think of any good open source tools with nicely formatted output? 15:24 < jml2> triceratux, systemd-resolved does that and so does the legacy stub resolver... 15:24 < jml2> triceratux, all stub resolvers do caching.. 15:24 < noodlepie> OK. No problem 15:25 < triceratux> jml2: but ... but ... dnsmasq does pxe & dhcp & a bunch of other stuff. should it just be blown out of the water by systemd-resolved ? 15:25 < noodlepie> joekeilty, there are sort command and streamed editing command and all sorts of things you can do it with 15:25 < jml2> triceratux, they both do the same basic thing when it comes to performing as a stub-resolver.. dnsmasq has it's extension objectives in servicing as an "additional name server" ---> which is "beyond just a stub resolver".. 15:26 < jml2> triceratux, systemd-resolved doesn't perform this extra extension as dnsmasq.. 15:26 < triceratux> jml2: & yep yer right about that. the first dig to google.com is 41msec & the rest are 0msec. just like dnsmasq 15:26 < jml2> triceratux, in other words "dnsmasq" can "behave" as "bind", but you're never using anything of custom DNS A/PTR records.. so dnsmasq makes little sense in your case.. 15:29 < jml2> triceratux, i suppose the reason why you saw dnsmasq in earlier distro releases is because systemd-resolved was not yet ready... 15:29 < jml2> triceratux, now that it is, it is the default stub resolver.. 15:30 < mazula> hi an idea of why I have this error? https://gist.github.com/kindles/1fb29bfeb125c753bd5b5e3bc87e8918 15:30 < triceratux> jml2: yep i think i understand the historical perspective. now if only we could get tumbleweed to compile the thing 15:31 < jml2> triceratux, oh gee, dnsmasq supports d-bus.. 15:31 < Sitri> mazula: It means nothing is listening on that port 15:32 < jml2> triceratux, you gotta get used to knowing about those d-bus services tehehe 15:32 < triceratux> jml2: dnsmasq is famous for being highly functional & downright trivial to configure 15:33 < jml2> triceratux, it is trivial out of the box by default, but you should know how NM plugs with it... 15:33 < mazula> Sitri are you sure? because I have something on the port 5050 15:34 < t5u> JHi, I have tried to find solution but there is very little troubleshooting on the subject, I was wondering if I can find help here. I am trying to run application but some libs are crashing the app. the problem lays with SIGILL in QTreeView::drawRow() any clues ? 15:34 < t5u> error : Illegal instruction (core dumped) 15:34 < jml2> triceratux, if you are still stubborn and you want dnsmasq started with NM you will of course need dns=dnsmasq in your NM setting.. 15:35 < post-factum> t5u: maybe, an app was compiled for another cpu 15:35 < jml2> triceratux, but then there's no point in running systemd-resolved along side of it... but you won't be gaining anything with dnsmasq because you're only just using it for it's stub resolving.. 15:36 < triceratux> jml2: yep ive in effect pursued it as far as necessary. everything is working. 18.04 is solid, & its the future of linux 15:36 < jml2> mazula, could be a firewall issue if you're not letting -lo (127/8) traffic to itself.. 15:37 < t5u> post-factum: well this is the only machine on AMD that has this problem, spent 4 days reinstalling different OS's 15:38 < post-factum> t5u: yes, exactly. if the app is compiled for some intel skylake with -march=native, you can get sigill theoretically 15:39 < t5u> ok but why Qtcreator fails to run and generates core (SIGILL) 15:40 < t5u> is there a way to stacktrace ? 15:40 < v4ult> Hello, I'm am self-studying for the RHCSA certification and I'm currently working on LDAP authentication. So far I have set up an LDAP server with freeIPA but I am unsure how to connect to it with a different server. Can anyone advise what is the recommended tool to use? 15:41 < t5u> the app runs to some degree, when connecting with the api QT crashes 15:41 < jml2> v4ult, wouldn't rhcsa be addressing openldap ? 15:41 < t5u> both on GUI and CLI versions 15:42 < t5u> but different stages of QT 15:43 < v4ult> jml2 I believe you can either 15:43 < jml2> v4ult, likely you will need to be acquainted with ldap-utils (commands like ldapsearch ldappasswd, ldap* ...) 15:45 < post-factum> t5u: where did you get that qt library? 15:45 < twainwek> t5u: have you ran it through a debugger? btw there's a #qt channel too 15:45 < v4ult> jml2, thanks I will have a look 15:51 < cxc99> what's the difference between direct/indrect maps for autofs? 15:58 < Acheron> how is the new release of Ubuntu going? 15:58 < Acheron> any thoughts? 16:01 < ayecee> no thoughts, only opinions 16:02 < Acheron> i hadn't tried it lately, just wondered how people were liking it 16:03 < BluesKaj> running without NM and as mawk suggested using dhcp in the interfaces file rather than static 16:04 < mawk> nice 16:04 < BluesKaj> works great mawk :-) 16:04 < jml2> BluesKaj, better to be acquainted with nm because RH certificates expect you to know this XD 16:04 < mawk> if is pretty powerful for a dirty aggregate of distro-specific scripts 16:04 < BluesKaj> jml2, I'm a home user 16:05 < mawk> it doesn't do VPN as NM, but you can do many things 16:05 < mawk> like ipv6 privacy extensions, or you can easily set an ipv6 token for an interface, etc 16:05 < jml2> BluesKaj, if you want to have the legacy behaviour without systemd-resolved, you can try those two edits I gave to triceratux a little earlier 16:06 < jml2> BluesKaj, it does work out of the box and very well imho 16:06 < BluesKaj> I have the .ovpn files in /etc/openvpn and vpn connected fine previously without NM 16:06 < jml2> BluesKaj, it's merely a symlink and then using "[main] dns=default" (because dns=systemd-resolved is defined elsewhere) 16:07 < BluesKaj> gonna check my vpn connection , bbiab 16:08 < jml2> BluesKaj, my experience using vpn with nm is limitted, but ifupdown is to be deprecated by all distro things, so better safe than sorry :) 16:12 < sysRPL> hello 16:14 < sysRPL> hi, i am trying to find what shared object (so) file xports a specific set of api functions to import into a program i am writing, but i can't seem to locate it. could anyone tell me how to find what so exports jsc_context_new? i already did a find -exec nm -D grep command and turned up nothing 16:15 < sysRPL> on ubntu what packages might contain that function export? 16:15 < triceratux> jml2: i just finished replacing systemd-resolved with dnsmasq on xubuntu 18.04. the /etc/resolv.conf needs 127.0.0.1 explicitly added to it & the matching listen-address needs to be added to the /etc/dnsmasq.conf. then systemctl can stop systemd-resolved & start dnsmasq. NM seems happy with all of that 16:15 < jml2> triceratux, I started looking at this back in 2014 ... tehehe my note timestamp says 2014 in the head title XD .. i've been going on and off with NM... 16:15 < jml2> triceratux, and systemd-resolved definitely wasn't ready back then.. 16:15 < jml2> triceratux, i'm currently updating my notes... 16:15 < jml2> triceratux, XD 16:15 < Hdphn> has anyone tried ubuntu 18.04 16:16 < Hdphn> is it bugfree? 16:16 < triceratux> Hdphn: did they release it ? 16:16 < mawk> no lib on my system sysRPL 16:16 < mawk> what does jsc mean ? 16:16 < Hdphn> triceratux: yea 16:16 < fendur> Hdphn: what does "bugfree" mean? 16:16 < jml2> triceratux, funny, you're saying NM uses /etc/dnsmasq.conf rather than /etc/NetworkManager/dnsmasq.*d ? 16:16 < uplime> Hdphn | is it bugfree? 16:16 < uplime> nothing is bug free 16:16 < uplime> ever 16:17 < Hdphn> but people say arch is the buggiest out of all distros 16:17 < djph> sysRPL: looks like that's part of this project -> https://github.com/abihf/jsc-glib 16:17 < BluesKaj> yup, working like a charm 16:17 < triceratux> jml2: no clue. all i know is theres now more success modes than failure modes. im updating my notes as well. as long as it works 16:17 < Hdphn> BluesKaj: new or upgraded 16:17 < jml2> triceratux, that's dumb, you might as well just keep what you have and not even install dnsmasq... 16:17 < Hdphn> Whether your team uses Python, Ruby, Node.js or Java, no operating system is easier to set up than Ubuntu. Everything your developers need is just a snap or an apt away. 16:17 < Hdphn> https://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/developers 16:17 < Hdphn> <3 16:18 < jml2> triceratux, lol 16:18 < triceratux> jml2: thats my intention. itll be a vanilla config next time i boot 16:18 < mawk> looking in C++ libs I have some hits, sysRPL 16:18 < blaztek> Hdphn: if it's good enough for Google... 16:19 < BluesKaj> Hdphn, actually been testing Kubuntu Bionic 18.04 since last december, so the release was anticlimctic for me :-) 16:19 < BluesKaj> anticlimactic, even 16:19 < Hdphn> kubuntu 16:19 < Hdphn> yaeks. kde is buggy 16:19 < BluesKaj> yup 16:19 < BluesKaj> nope 16:19 < BluesKaj> stop th FUD 16:19 < mawk> inside of Qt 16:20 < mawk> but nothing about your function 16:20 < Psi-Jack> Well, I stopped using KDE entirely, after 20-something years of using it. 16:21 < DLange> I did that when KDE 4 came along. I did not have your stamina. 16:21 < Acheron> Psi-Jack, what do you use now? 16:21 < Psi-Jack> heh 16:21 < Hdphn> kde tried its best but it failed 16:21 < Psi-Jack> Acheron: XFCE4 with i3wm instead of xfwm4. 16:21 < BluesKaj> Psi-Jack, too bad, it's a terrific DE 16:21 < Psi-Jack> BluesKaj: It /was/ a terrific DE. 16:21 < Hdphn> Psi-Jack: why not just i3 16:21 < Hdphn> boi 16:22 < BluesKaj> oh a tile-ist 16:22 < Psi-Jack> Hdphn: because I wanted xfce4-session and xfce4-panel. :) 16:22 < Hdphn> lol 16:22 < Hdphn> you can have i3 status 16:22 < Hdphn> noob 16:22 < Psi-Jack> No thanks. 16:22 < Hdphn> and why doy ou need 16:22 < noodlepie> I like CDE and Motif 16:22 < Hdphn> xfce session? 16:22 < Hdphn> for 16:22 < noodlepie> they work with editres for online settings management 16:22 < Psi-Jack> I like graphical representation in my graphical environment, not textual representation of my things that would look better graphical. 16:23 < Hdphn> so you use opensuse? 16:23 < Hdphn> arch is text wizard OS. why would you use it if you dont like textual representation. 16:23 < Psi-Jack> I use xfce sessions to start, mostly systemtray-based apps. 16:23 * noodlepie uses Gentoo and Debian (for older machines, faster prebuilt packages). Source packages in Gentoo are fun. 16:24 < Psi-Jack> And, simply, just because. I can and its free. :) 16:24 < Hdphn> gentoo for old machines? 16:24 < Hdphn> lol 16:24 < lovetruth> hello :) 16:24 < DLange> he's on arch now after telling everybody and their dog in this channel that arch is a pita for three years or so 16:24 < Psi-Jack> It was, and still is. :) 16:24 < Hdphn> its crap thats why its free lol 16:24 < DLange> if they had a marketing department, they'd have had a party on this convert :D 16:24 < Psi-Jack> It sucks, but when well maintained, it can be good. :) 16:24 * triceratux doesnt run what he recommends & doesnt recommend what he runs 16:24 < lovetruth> I have 4 OpenVPN servers... 16:25 < lovetruth> I have to switch The Encryption Algorithm used for data channel packets (the cipher, in OpenVPN) from BF-CBC (Blowfish, 128bit key, 64 bit block) to AES-256-CBC 16:25 < lovetruth> while being a production server... how can I make sure I won't break something?... I want to make the change seamless... the 1200 clients to re-connect immediately... 16:25 < Hdphn> triceratux: you bast... 16:25 < sysRPL> mawk, okay 16:25 < DLange> nobody asked about your wife, Psi-Jack :) 16:25 < platvoeten> exit 16:25 < Psi-Jack> DLange: LOL 16:25 < lovetruth> how can I make sure it will just work?... where to look?... like... for possible incompatibilities or something, that will render the OpenVPN server unavailable (to which people connect through SSL/TLS and user auth...)?... 16:25 < Psi-Jack> Daaayum man. Low! :) 16:25 < sysRPL> mawk, but what .so contains those functions? 16:25 < Psi-Jack> lovetruth: I stopped reading after you hit enter as pauses in thought. 16:26 < Hdphn> I dont even have wife coz I use arch 16:26 < Psi-Jack> Hdphn: "because" not "coz" 16:26 < mawk> I did not find your function sysRPL 16:26 < mawk> for mine it's some Qt .so 16:26 < mawk> you really want the name ? I don't think it's relateds 16:26 < mawk> it's inside the javascript JIT 16:26 < DLange> lovetruth: usually the OpenVPN server should either log errors (check syslog or journalctl) or segfault right away 16:26 < Hdphn> Psi-Jack: #english is that way --> 16:27 < lovetruth> tls handshake error 16:27 < Psi-Jack> Hdphn: Rules page for channel is ^ that way (pointing to the topic) 16:27 < jml2> " Hdphn: did they release it ?" XD 16:28 < jml2> lol 16:28 < jml2> triceratux, you punk! 16:28 < Hdphn> yea 16:28 < mnemon> lovetruth: if you're running new enough server you can specify both ciphers and wait for the clients to swap to the new one then remove the other. 16:28 < Hdphn> ubuntu is life man 16:28 < triceratux> :0 16:28 < Hdphn> arch is for jobless people 16:28 < Psi-Jack> I use Arch at work. 16:28 < Hdphn> arch is good for learning purpose. once you are done with that its useless waste of time 16:28 < Hdphn> to maintain it when canonical does that for you 16:28 < jml2> Hdphn, that's a large misconception 16:29 < jml2> Hdphn, you can learn linux very well with basically any distro.. 16:29 < Hdphn> well yea but no distro devs are as lazy and arrogants as arch so they didnt create installer 16:29 < jml2> Hdphn, this is typically heard most from arch camp XD .. if you want to go real bananas on this, one can even advocate easily lfs and gentoo over arch.. 16:30 < jml2> Hdphn, and you'll definitely be learning more than any linux user with those setups :p 16:30 < Hdphn> those are for jobless and lifeless people. sometimes you wanna get work done you know? 16:30 < DLange> how do you know Hdphn? 16:30 < Hdphn> as ubuntu website says " you can code more and debug less" 16:32 < mAniAk-_-> Hdphn: so does arch website 16:32 < Nussi> don't feed the troll people 16:33 < mAniAk-_-> but friday afternoon is troll feeding time 16:33 < Acheron> a troll? 16:33 < Nussi> it's already friday? 16:33 < Nussi> shoot 16:33 < ayecee> troll people, troll people 16:33 < ayecee> smell like troll, talk like people 16:33 < iflema> ubuntards? 16:34 < Nussi> s/troll/troll, 16:34 * Psi-Jack pulls out his concealed Glock 9mm silenced pistol, fires a shot right at Nussi's feet, missing him by 2cm, and conceals the Glock quickly and just as mysteriously. 16:34 < jml2> "<Hdphn> Whether your team uses Python, Ruby, Node.js or Java, no operating system is easier to set up than Ubuntu. " 16:34 < jml2> ah that's why he's like that.. 16:34 < jml2> lol 16:34 < fendur> ayecee: aren't we all trolls? saying things hoping someone will bite and talk back? 16:35 < jml2> a "Ubuntu noob" guy XD 16:35 * Nussi is facepalming 16:35 < djph> Psi-Jack: don't miss next time. 16:35 < Nussi> I work with both python and java on a freaking arch 16:35 < Psi-Jack> I didn't miss. :) 16:35 < jml2> when ubuntu users get like that I just call them ubumtoos 16:35 < BluesKaj> Arch thinks that making users install thru the teminal is some kind of rite of passage into their geek-world, but one ends up with a very ordinary lnux OS, that has no special appeal 16:36 < Nussi> it's just a matter of taste 16:36 < iflema> need 16:36 < solidfox> I like to debug though 16:36 < jml2> there's so many distros (That are not ubuntu/deb-based) that are very easy to isntall for very new users... 16:36 < solidfox> that's how you find vulnerabilities 16:36 < solidfox> Hdphn, 16:37 < anonnumberanon> My laptop on Ubuntu just shut down without warning. The battery is full. What log file can I read that may indicate causes for failure? 16:37 < Nussi> := 16:37 < Nussi> :=) 16:37 < solidfox> jml2, I am an ubuntu user and a gentoo user 16:37 < Hdphn> solidfox: lol. but not by fixing what pacman broke on you 16:37 < solidfox> jml2, lots of distros just don't have good docs 16:37 < Hdphn> solidfox: curious, are you using kali as main OS? 16:37 < anonnumberanon> CPU getting too hot? I have a light cpu load now but the laptop is docked to a docking station and the cooling with it is not optimal, also the laptop is from 2012. 16:38 < solidfox> Hdphn, no. kali is for offensive security students. 16:38 < anonnumberanon> lol 16:38 < Hdphn> lol 16:38 < iflema> lol 16:38 < Hdphn> solidfox: so what do you use to find vulns 16:38 < solidfox> Hdphn, gdb 16:38 < Hdphn> funny 16:38 < Hdphn> lol 16:38 < solidfox> Hdphn, and objdump 16:38 < Hdphn> I mean 16:38 < Hdphn> OS 16:38 < solidfox> what is funny 16:38 < fendur> solidfox: what do you mean "offensive"? 16:38 < Hdphn> .. 16:39 < Hdphn> not tools 16:39 < solidfox> fendur, that's the name of the company "Offensive security" 16:39 < Hdphn> coz thats the offsec philosophy 16:39 < fendur> solidfox: ah! thanks. 16:39 < DLange> anonnumberanon: there is no log that says "high temp, I'm shutting off". You can check journalctl --boot=-1 and see whether it tells you something 16:39 < solidfox> Hdphn, oh. I use ubuntu 16:39 < Hdphn> solidfox: 18.04? 16:39 < Hdphn> solidfox: tried arch? 16:39 < solidfox> Hdphn, y 16:40 < junka> solidfox; Bionic Beaver? LD 16:40 < solidfox> Hdphn, no I don't like arch 16:40 < anonnumberanon> DLange, thanks will try that first. 16:40 < junka> xD* 16:40 < Hdphn> solidfox: used it ? 16:40 < solidfox> Hdphn, yes. 16:40 < revel> I'm running `apt install apt` right now, wish me luck. 16:40 < junka> lol 16:40 < Hdphn> why do you prefer ubuntu over arch? solidfox 16:40 < solidfox> Hdphn, I also prefer gentoo over arch 16:40 < lovetruth> hm... so you guys are using Kali to find vulns?... :) 16:40 < solidfox> and over fedora 16:40 < Hdphn> Arch has AUR that has everything 16:41 < solidfox> Hdphn, hardly 16:41 < anonnumberanon> DLange, it is --boot=1 ? 16:41 < Hdphn> why you prefer ubuntu over gentoo / arch solidfox 16:41 < Hdphn> lovetruth: whynot? 16:41 < solidfox> Hdphn, when I try to use gentoo, I read the docs and know what to do. 16:41 < lovetruth> don't you guys have an appliance (like - a virtual machine) that you just fire up, keep it online for a month or 2 weeks, that automatically analyses stuff?... 16:41 < junka> why are you so interesting that you get all the attention solidfox 16:41 < lovetruth> like a nagios setup or something?... 16:41 < Hdphn> solidfox: well arch has good wiki too 16:41 < solidfox> Hdphn, when I try to use arch or fedora, I read the docs and still can't get things to work 16:42 < revel> Hdphn: Consider this. Arch doesn't package most things in their own repos, so you invariably have to use AUR, which is community-maintained. 16:42 < DLange> anonnumberanon: no, -1 should be "from the boot before last" 16:42 < revel> s/most/a lot of/ 16:42 < Hdphn> revel: yea so whats wrong with that. you get the package easily at the end 16:42 < Hdphn> nothave to compile it 16:42 < anonnumberanon> DLange, I don't understand 16:42 < solidfox> junka, idk 16:43 < revel> No?? I remember having to compile things when I used AUR. 16:43 < fendur> Hdphn: don't worry bro, if you like it, you stick with it. 16:43 < revel> Hdphn: It's because it's third-party. 16:43 < Hdphn> no 16:43 < lovetruth> so?... Kali just for specific vuln. test, when you have a specific vuln. and want to test it. 16:43 < Hdphn> revel: so you use which distro / preferred distro? 16:43 < lovetruth> aren't you people doing the very same?... 16:43 < revel> Hdphn: https://aur.archlinux.org/cgit/aur.git/tree/PKGBUILD?h=freshplayerplugin 16:43 < revel> Looks like compiling to me. 16:43 < revel> Hdphn: Gentoo. 16:43 < solidfox> junka, I guess its cause i just talk a lot :v 16:44 < Hdphn> revel: but aur helper does it forme 16:44 < DLange> anonnumberanon: man journalctl, look for -b and its explanation 16:44 * iflema thinks core and extra just about cover it 16:44 < anonnumberanon> thanks 16:44 < revel> Oh, you meant "manually compile it", not "compile it" in general. 16:44 < Hdphn> yea 16:45 < Hdphn> I am lazy lol 16:45 < Hdphn> and not having time to compile each update 16:45 < Hdphn> after each* 16:45 < fendur> how many trees do those compile-everything dists kill every year? 16:45 < lovetruth> hm... looks like I was speaking in vain... :) 16:45 < solidfox> fendur, depends on the user's electric source 16:45 < revel> At least two trillion. 16:46 < Hdphn> revel: would you prefer ubuntu over arch 16:46 < revel> Hdphn: Gentoo does the compiling for you as well. 16:46 < revel> Hdphn: For what purpose, exactly? 16:46 < Hdphn> daily usage 16:46 < Hdphn> and development 16:46 < Hdphn> etc. 16:47 < revel> Sure. 16:47 < Hdphn> solidfox: you use gentoo and ubuntu 16:47 < solidfox> I had to compile games-emulation/dolphin without pie manually on gentoo. but it was kinda cool how you can set your own build flags if you really have to 16:47 < Hdphn> which one do you likemore and why 16:47 < revel> Ubuntu, since it's not Arch :D 16:47 < solidfox> Hdphn, currently I like ubuntu more because I'm struggling with time management. 16:48 < Hdphn> solidfox: dont you miss AUR in ubuntu 16:48 < solidfox> Hdphn, I never experienced AUR in ubuntu 16:48 < Hdphn> if I can find AUR way around in ubuntu I would switch in beat 16:48 < MrElendig> Hdphn: ppa, sort of (but not really) 16:48 < solidfox> Hdphn, if you like AUR you can use arch 16:48 < Hdphn> ppa sucks. its all manual 16:48 < revel> Hdphn: Why would you? You can just read the PKGBUILD and do whatever it does as well if you really want something that's 1) not in the Ubuntu repos 2) not in a PPA 16:49 < Hdphn> ppa is insecure too 16:49 < MrElendig> and if you don't follow their packaging guide then you can somewhat easily make your own debs 16:49 < MrElendig> Hdphn: ppa is less manual than aur 16:49 < Hdphn> aur helper 16:49 < Hdphn> less manual than that too? 16:49 < Psi-Jack> Unsupported aur helpers. 16:49 < MrElendig> there are ppa helpers too 16:49 < revel> I've definitely compiled some stuff using PKGBUILDs as a guide before as well. 16:49 < Hdphn> MrElendig: TIL. 16:50 < Hdphn> sounds like I am going for ubuntu hten 16:50 < Hdphn> then 16:50 < Hdphn> but finding ppas for every package is hassle 16:50 < Hdphn> MrElendig: 16:50 < Hdphn> trizen -sS <3 16:50 < lovetruth> here's an interesting question: how "possible" is it to switch LIVE (without rebooting the machine: the services can be restarted) from SuseLinux 11 to CentOS 7?... 16:50 < rypervenche> solidfox: You struggle with time management because of compiling times? 16:50 < solidfox> most packages are in the default repo. even hashcat, which is missing in fedora repos :( 16:50 < jml2> Hdphn, I bet that Egyption actor from Mr Robot uses more Linux than you. 16:50 < jml2> LOL 16:50 < hendrix> it can be quite messy when you have tons of PPAs 16:50 < Hdphn> hahahaha 16:50 < solidfox> rypervenche, yeah. and configuring everything and reading the docs too. 16:51 < jml2> Hdphn, shutup. I'm serious. >:| 16:51 < Hdphn> that guy is kali hacker man. cant mess with him 16:51 < Hdphn> :D 16:51 < TJ-> lovetruth: it's possible using kexec 16:51 < lovetruth> TJ-: ?... 16:51 < jml2> Hdphn, I don't care what distro people use.. it's not my thing.. :)) 16:51 < kunfoo> Hi 16:51 < Hdphn> I have used all linux flavors and trust me windows 10 is the best since WSL. i3 is the only thing I miss in w10 16:52 < solidfox> lol 16:52 < jml2> Hdphn, I can easily accomodate to any Linux distro, but things like Arch and Ubuntu didn't even exist back then when I adopted Linux ::) 16:52 < revel> Why does it always seem like Arch users are the most likely to also use Windows? 16:52 < kunfoo> when I run 'netstat -lntp' I see open ports with pid == '-'. What could this be? 16:52 < Hdphn> the distro that supports more apps and you can play games on 16:52 < Psi-Jack> Never trust ANYONE that claims Windows 10 is better than Linux. :p 16:52 < revel> lovetruth: I think I saw a project on Github ages ago for doing exactly that with some pivot_root magic and all. 16:52 < Hdphn> Psi-Jack: it is in security atleast 16:52 < anonnumberanon> Psi-Jack, which Linux? 16:52 < Psi-Jack> ... Wow... 16:53 < rascul> kunfoo pid of the process listening on that port 16:53 < Hdphn> finding 0 days in w10 is billion times harder than linux kernel (monolithic crap lol) 16:53 < kunfoo> rascul: no PID is shown, just - 16:53 < rascul> kunfoo run it as root 16:53 < kunfoo> rascul: I do 16:53 < rascul> i dunno 16:53 < TJ-> lovetruth: "kexec" is a mechanism for the running kernel to load and boot another kernel. With appropriate options can be used to switch to a different distro OS 16:53 < kunfoo> rascul: the other processes are shown correctly 16:54 < Psi-Jack> Hdphn: You seriously need to stop doing this every time you're here 16:54 < lovetruth> so... mainly, way of doing it would be: install the CentOS in a stagging environment (same hardware). Then rsync everything to some local folder in the new machine. Make sure fstab is ok, then, chroot into it and run kexec?... 16:54 < solidfox> my brother still likes windows xp 16:54 < mawk> tuntap can send ERR or OUT as a polling event ? 16:54 < solidfox> sorry that was a random fact 16:54 * jml2 heard rumours that Mr Robot comes on here 16:55 < solidfox> I just don't know anything about windows vs linux anymore. 16:55 * jml2 and is scouting for Hdphn :) 16:55 < kunfoo> could the kernel itself open a listening socket, maybe in combination with NFS? 16:55 < Blizzkid> Hi all. Any influxdb specialists in here? The #influxdb channel seems pretty dead, and I have an urgent issue. DB size is suddenly exploding after working fine for months and not changing anything. 16:55 < ShapeShifter499> hi 16:55 < jml2> kunfoo, uh, rpc.statd ? 16:55 < Psi-Jack> Blizzkid: https://www.influxdata.com/ 16:56 < Psi-Jack> Blizzkid: Pay for support. 16:56 < kunfoo> jml2: rpc is there 16:56 < jml2> kunfoo, yeah there is the nfs kernel module thing, ... 16:56 < mawk> yes kunfoo 16:56 < TJ-> lovetruth: If chroot is sufficient, no reboot step is required. Also, if a chroot is OK, then consider a system container (e.g. LXD and similar). Kexec does a reboot but without involving system BIOS/Firmware services. 16:56 < ananke> Blizzkid: clearly, something has changed. check your update logs (did the packages get updates recently?), check your traffic (is something feeding the data?), etc 16:56 < innovate41> Hi guys........ iproute2 question....... why would removing the default route block incoming connections ? 16:56 < ShapeShifter499> I'm trying to figure out how to set swap priority in fstab. I used a flag "prio=1" up to 4 but /proc/swaps shows negative values. Which gets used first? 16:56 < mawk> not always with NFS, kunfoo , see the wireguard kernel module for instance 16:56 < jml2> kunfoo, nfsv4 iirc doesn't require the old legacy rpc... depending on what you're after 16:56 < mawk> it's a modern secure VPN software as a module kernel 16:56 < mawk> written in less than 8000 lines of code iirc 16:56 < anonnumberanon> Hdphn, where can I curl the "monolithic cap lol" distro for my kernel? 16:57 < jml2> innovate41, because your route needs a gateway 16:57 < kunfoo> it just confuses me that no PID is shown, and I wanted to know what it could be 16:57 < jml2> innovate41, the default route points to a gateway -- for networks outside your lan.. 16:57 < MrElendig> innovate41: tcp requires a reply 16:57 < Psi-Jack> MrElendig: Ack! 16:57 < kunfoo> seems legit though. thanks! 16:57 < Blizzkid> ananke: it's on a private network 16:57 < mawk> how do you probe kunfoo ? are you inside a container ? 16:57 < jml2> innovate41, otherwise you only get to communicate with LAN ip addressses 16:58 < kunfoo> mawk: it is a vm. I do not have access anymore, I just have the output of netstat -lntp 16:58 < undefbeh> arch is beast btw\ 16:58 < rascul> need routes to talk to others 16:58 < undefbeh> arch is the best of both worlds 16:58 < mawk> a vm or a container kunfoo ? 16:58 < ananke> Blizzkid: doesn't matter. check your network traffic. tcpdump, wireshark, etc 16:58 < Blizzkid> ananke: also /var/log/influxdb is empty 16:58 < undefbeh> uptodate + repos 16:59 < innovate41> jml2: MrElendig oh wow thank you. Those replies have helped alot. Been trying to figure this out for quite some time lol 16:59 < jml2> innovate41, the truth is more complex XD 16:59 < kunfoo> mawk: since there are some nfs shares mounted, I guess this socket has something to do with it 16:59 < Celmor> how do I print date in seconds since epoch in floating point format? (need more accurate than integer) 16:59 < mawk> yeah, it could be a kernel module indeed kunfoo 17:00 < Blizzkid> ananke: suggestions for a tcpdump filter making sense? 17:00 < kunfoo> ok thanks 17:00 < jml2> innovate41, has to do with mac-addresses(layer2 encapsulation) :p... but it is still technically accurate what I provided to you.. 17:00 < mawk> using python Celmor maybe 17:00 < ananke> Blizzkid: port 17:00 < mawk> Celmor: python3 -c 'import time; print(time.time())' 17:00 < MrElendig> Celmor: sounds like a xyproblem 17:01 < jml2> innovate41, actually I did tell you truths ... but there is always a larger explanation for everything 17:01 < jml2> innovate41, XD 17:01 < MrElendig> just the output buffering would scew the result 17:01 < Celmor> want to set time of another system which doesn't have an internet connection 17:01 < Blizzkid> ananke: port 8088 is only exposed on 127.0.0.1 17:01 < Celmor> need it accurate enough for gps to work 17:01 < jml2> innovate41, you should take a ccna course and learn more about networking.. 17:01 < MrElendig> Celmor: set up a local ntp then 17:01 < MrElendig> Celmor: or a cheap gps reciever 17:01 < jml2> innovate41, that way you can be master in networking concepts since I can see you want to know more about it.. 17:01 < innovate41> jml2: Understood. I will not question further .. Thank you :D 17:02 < MrElendig> Celmor: or a radio clock dongle 17:02 < innovate41> jml2: Sounds interesting. Will take a look at this . 17:02 < MrElendig> (if you are in range of the time signal= 17:03 < innovate41> jml2: Sure it is an interesting area .... I guess most in this chat would agree 17:03 * Blizzkid has to go. bbl. 17:03 < lovetruth> TJ-: I've been using Xen on linux environments (besides ESXi and so on... ) . Is LXD good?... 17:04 < MrElendig> loran C is also a good time source if you are in an area where it is still operational 17:04 < MrElendig> for time syncing that is, they are not that great for absolute time 17:04 < jml2> innovate41, (packettracer is free to download from netacad --- registration is free to signup) --- ccnav6.com is not a legal entity of Cisco.. (of course) 17:05 < TJ-> lovetruth: LXC/LXD uses the regular Linux kernel cgroups and namespacing to create isolation and there are prepared system images for many distros ready to use. (LXC is the 'application' container side, LXD is the 'system' containers) 17:05 < TJ-> lovetruth: see https://linuxcontainers.org/ for more 17:05 < rascul> can setup your own images too 17:06 < lovetruth> ah :) nice :) then LXC seems a good way for OS LIVE switching... :) 17:06 < rypervenche> innovate41: You don't need to learn all of Cisco's networking stuff to have a good comprehension of basic networking. You can find good guides out there that pertain more to your setup. If you do want to get into higher level understandings though then Cisco is one way to go toward learning about networking more in depth. 17:06 < rascul> it's not really live switching, it's containers 17:06 < lovetruth> and thanks for the site, I've already jumped on it when I've read you saying about LXC :) 17:08 < okamis_> Hello, in a docker container, im running "logname" and it returns "logname: no login name" 17:08 < Celmor> mawk, thanks, `date +%s.%N` seems to work too 17:08 < ShapeShifter499> ok I figured it out, I should have been using 'pri' instead of 'prio' in fstab for swapfiles 17:09 < okamis_> I was hoping it would return my username 17:09 < jml2> swapfiles.. hahaha that's so c:\pagefile.sys !!!! XDXDXD 17:09 < mawk> yes Celmor 17:10 < jml2> ShapeShifter499, that's so windows dude!! 17:10 < lovetruth> jml2: and hiberfil and so on... :) 17:11 < ShapeShifter499> jml2: that's what I get for trying to shoehorn a install of nextcloud (php, mysql, apache) onto a Raspberry Pi 17:11 < ShapeShifter499> 3B+ to be exact 17:12 < bindi> wtf is with the childish XD spam? 17:12 < jml2> there are interesting products from ubnty that has a cloud device on a usb stick... 17:12 < ShapeShifter499> I'm not sure if I'll hit the RAM limit, so far it hovers around 150Mb of 1G. But I rather not have my file transfers fail mid way because of RAM 17:12 < jml2> enterprises use it... and might even offer a convenience in comparison to an rpi... 17:13 < jml2> (they release their firmware public) 17:13 < ShapeShifter499> jml2: are you talking about cloud computing? 17:13 * jml2 ./ubiquity./ 17:13 < lovetruth> ShapeShifter499, just make sure to set the right swapiness... :) 17:14 < jml2> ShapeShifter499, a 'cloud' device they call it-- it acts a server for the lan network... 17:14 < ShapeShifter499> I'm talking about using my Pi as a place to sync and store files 17:14 < ShapeShifter499> lovetruth: swappiness is set to 10 17:14 < jml2> ShapeShifter499, yeah it probably that as well,... but if you're interested i can pull out the link.. 17:14 < ShapeShifter499> I'm always interested 17:14 < jml2> ShapeShifter499, and then there's xynology or something... 17:15 < jml2> ShapeShifter499, it's a slightly modded "synology" OS that can run on PC systems.. 17:15 < jml2> ShapeShifter499, i believe it's this - http://xpenology.me/ 17:16 < jml2> ShapeShifter499, and (sorry for anyone anti-.com things) https://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-cloud-key/ 17:16 < lovetruth> ShapeShifter499, I'd use 1 or maximum 4, probably... but it's up to you :) 17:16 < jml2> ShapeShifter499, that cloud key has a usb-c connector, that should be interesting... 17:16 < djph> jml2: the "Cloud Key"? It's (effectively) a rpi in a pretty case running Debian. 17:16 < jml2> ShapeShifter499, I never use either of these two things, but I've read good about xpenology ... 17:16 < ShapeShifter499> lovetruth: huh? 17:16 < Psi-Jack> We do not recommend routine use of XPEnology! 17:16 < Psi-Jack> Heh. Funny. 17:16 < lovetruth> swapiness 17:17 < ananke> and last update in 2016. such wow 17:17 < ShapeShifter499> lovetruth: you'd set it that low? 17:17 < jml2> ShapeShifter499, you can see what xpenology does by watching videos on "synology" (they are basically the same except that one is modded to run anywhere) 17:17 < djph> jml2: last I looked, USB was power-only 17:17 < lovetruth> sure... 1 = just to avoid "out of memory"... RAM is much faster and the SD writing/reading is really bad in Pi 17:17 < djph> jml2: they're cute and all, and good in a bind when someone doesn't want to connect to the controller I have at DO, but ... 17:17 < ShapeShifter499> I have my swap on the hard drive 17:18 < ShapeShifter499> *a hard drive 17:18 < lovetruth> then it's better :) still... it's probably over USB (internally to RasPi) 17:18 < lovetruth> what Pi are you using?... BananaPi? 17:19 < ShapeShifter499> hmm I might set that then 17:19 < ShapeShifter499> lovetruth: 3B+ (plus) 17:20 < jml2> ShapeShifter499, there's a pletora of extinct and broken promises for devices like this on crowdfunding places.. might as well go with something that has been proven. 17:20 < jml2> ShapeShifter499, if rpi does you good then that's what you should stick to.. 17:20 < lovetruth> that's a good one... although, yes, the hdd is over USB actually... 17:22 < ShapeShifter499> it *seems* alright now but I haven't finished fully setting up Nextcloud yet 17:22 < plexigras> how can i do something like `a && b` but have it run in the backgound like `a &` 17:24 < plexigras> i just tried doing $(a && b) & and it seams to work 17:24 < ShapeShifter499> lovetruth: I have swap set up, use the fastest disk I have first to slowest, then use sd swap if all else fails. I also have the 'nofail' flag in case a hard drive fails so I can still boot in to troubleshoot 17:28 < plexigras> i have a command like $(a && exit) & in a shell script and it doesnt exit 17:29 < jnewt> is there a standard way of packaging html / css / js etc into the go executable when building? I've found several repos on github that are supposed to do this, but require you to do some stuff before building. any way to just setup to do it always for a project? 17:29 < jnewt> sorry, wrong channel 17:29 < uplime> plexigras: $( ) is a subshell 17:29 < uplime> and & forks it into the background 17:29 < uplime> its exiting the subshell 17:29 < plexigras> ok so how do i make it exit completely? 17:30 < uplime> move exit to outside the $()? 17:30 < uplime> please show your script/code 17:32 < plexigras> $(a && exit) & while true; do b; done 17:32 < uplime> so you want to continously do b, and then when a finishes running in the background, exit the script? 17:33 < uplime> while true; do b; done & a && exit 17:33 < plexigras> i want to allways restart b and if a exits end the whole script 17:34 < uplime> while true; do b; done & a; exit 17:34 < plexigras> that seams to work :) 17:34 < uplime> yay 17:34 < plexigras> thanks 17:35 < uplime> anytime 17:35 < plexigras> and this also stops the while loop when a exits right? 17:35 < uplime> yeah 17:36 < plexigras> good :) 17:40 < memelover> Is anyone here familiar with mdadm and raid array issues? 17:41 < Psi-Jack> Instead of asking to ask, ask real questions, provide details, surrounding facts. 17:42 < memelover> Mdadm can see my array, all of the disks appear to be fine, but upon mounting the array, dmesg tells me that it can't read the ext4 journal, and it complains that it cannot read the superblock. 17:42 < memelover> This seemed to start after a sudden power outage. 17:42 < akay> https://imgur.com/a/Y1UF4V1 - does anybody see something irregular here? i'm trying to find out why kworker start to consume up to 7-8% cpu after the machine ran for 3-4 days - debian 9, 4.9 17:42 < Psi-Jack> No UPS power backup? 17:43 < memelover> I should have one, but alas, I do not. 17:43 < Mysterytrain> when you make an LVM sstructure from a bunch of hard disks, do they all have to be empty first? 17:44 < TinyTimmyTokyo> ce ? 17:44 < TinyTimmyTokyo> 22:09:34 JeffATL| ehermes: its called sci-libs/blas-reference 17:44 < TinyTimmyTokyo> 22:09:39 ehermes| that sounds right to me 17:45 < TinyTimmyTokyo> sorry, don't know how that happened 17:46 < prussian> middle click paste? 17:46 < Psi-Jack> memelover: So, you had a power outage. You started the system back up, and then.... What? 17:46 < junka> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTf806u38Ng 17:46 < Psi-Jack> Trying to get to where mounting the array resulted in you getting these messages, Sounds almsot like you manually mounted. 17:47 < Psi-Jack> junka: Spam is off topic on freenode. 17:47 < memelover> Psi-Jack: Well, I did try to manually mount it. 17:47 < memelover> I was under the impression that it would mount on boot, but I didn't see it mounted, so I tried manually. 17:47 < plexigras> uplime: if i want to run the script in the background it doesnt work ???? 17:48 < Psi-Jack> Okay 17:49 < Psi-Jack> memelover: How's `cat /proc/mdstat` look? 17:50 < memelover> Personalities : [raid6] [raid5] [raid4] [linear] [multipath] [raid0] [raid1] [raid10] md0 : active raid5 sda[0] sdc[3] sdb[1] 5860270080 blocks super 1.2 level 5, 512k chunk, algorithm 2 [3/3] [UUU] bitmap: 0/22 pages [0KB], 65536KB chunk unused devices: root@beeblebrox:/home/scott # 17:50 < memelover> Oh geez, formatting 17:50 < jml2> memelover, U U U 17:50 < memelover> Looks normal to me. 17:50 < jml2> memelover, lover boy!! 17:51 < jml2> loves his algorithms! 17:51 < jml2> 'Personalities' :) 17:53 * jml2 cant find his preferred wp theme :/ 17:53 < jml2> finally got my themes able to update, gotta find a nice one :) 17:53 < jml2> and I mean "nice" one 17:56 < Psi-Jack> memelover: `mdadm -D /dev/md0` to https://paste.linux-help.org/ (or anything but pastebin.com) 17:57 < memelover> The filesystem was just messed up, e2fsck fixed it. Thanks for your help! 17:57 < Psi-Jack> Ahhh 17:57 < Psi-Jack> I just wanted to make sure RAID was good before suggestng that. :) 18:00 < zerowaitstate> I learned a valuable lesson today. If you are running Linux in a VM and mount an older snapshot of the root filesystem to do a file restore, make sure to detach the snapshot from the instance prior to a reboot, or ensure the disk labels don't still match. having matching disk labels for two volumes confuses fstab if you are mounting by label and it doesn't seem to fall back to any other ordering 18:01 < jml2> zerowaitstate, you mean Vbox' snapshotting or a filesystem in the guest like btrfs? 18:01 < jml2> lol 18:02 < zerowaitstate> jml2: hypervisor snapshotting, not in the guest 18:02 < jml2> btw who the hell uses disk labels? 18:02 < jml2> nobody.. 18:03 < jml2> if you mean volume labels, then that's something different.. 18:03 < zerowaitstate> volume labels is what I meant, sorry 18:03 < jml2> oh 18:03 < jml2> well duh.. what the hypervisor does is not obvious to the guest.. 18:04 < junka> my socks smell 18:05 < jml2> but you're using snapshotting with the vbox and that is a good tool so you can mess your guest machine... 18:05 < zerowaitstate> jml2: actually, it was aws 18:05 < jml2> i don't see how this can be complex... 18:05 < jml2> zerowaitstate, oh well then, I wouldn't know about that... 18:05 < jml2> zerowaitstate, I have no idea how that works... 18:05 < zerowaitstate> jml2: it's the same principle. 18:05 < jml2> zerowaitstate, production server? lol.. that makes you a nipple 18:05 < jml2> XD 18:07 < jml2> zerowaitstate, oh "by label" 18:07 < jml2> somebody here doesn't know about the UUID= convention adopted back a decade ago :) 18:07 < junka> by UUID pls 18:08 < jml2> aws tools must be lazy for going for label= or /dev/sdNp things instead of trying to find UUID=... 18:08 < zerowaitstate> jml2: stock cloud-init images from Ubuntu still use label apparently 18:08 < Psi-Jack> junka: "please" not "pls", please make appropriate corrections moving forward. 18:08 < junka> please* 18:09 < mawk> are there C/C++ macros for big/little endian conversion ? 18:09 < jml2> zerowaitstate, that "label" is something you can setup with e2label ... it's the label you can give to the filesystem.. .it gets stored at the head of the filesystem... 18:09 < mawk> or I just assume I'll stay on intel my whole life 18:09 < jml2> zerowaitstate, if I'm reading this correctly.. because here i never use aws... but i'm assuming you're talking about LABEL= in fstab.. 18:09 < lovetruth> so Psi-Jack: you're our grammar teacher... :) 18:09 < mawk> no I have a raspberry pi after all 18:09 < Psi-Jack> lovetruth: Grammar has nothing to do with it. 18:09 < lordvadr> mawk: Yes. man 3 byteorder 18:10 < mawk> this is not a macro lordvadr is it ? 18:10 < mawk> I'm using ntohs currently 18:10 < mawk> but a preprocessor macro would be nicer 18:11 < lordvadr> I'm guessing they're implemented using macros. 18:11 < jml2> I like people who refer to grammar as grammar, and vocabulary and spelling as something constructively different XD 18:12 < lovetruth> Psi-Jack: using abbreviations, punctuation/correct phrase parsing (e.g. Enter key properly... :) ) - that is all Grammar... :) but it's OK -> this can come from a common sense polite-way of thinking... :) 18:12 < lordvadr> mawk: They are indeed macros. 18:12 < mawk> alright 18:12 < mawk> thanks 18:12 < Psi-Jack> lovetruth: Wrong. It's spelling. Grammar is how the whole sentence is, not just a single word. 18:12 < jml2> I like my gram.... 18:13 < jml2> of weed!!!!!! 18:13 < Psi-Jack> jml2: Drugs are off topic on freenode network. 18:13 < lovetruth> well... I only said that because I've learned all that on the Grammar lessons in school... you might be right :) 18:13 < mawk> everything explains 18:13 < jml2> Psi-Jack, you're a gramma. I dropped the R for ya.. :p 18:13 < jml2> gramma! 18:13 * jml2 ducks XD 18:14 < jml2> zerowaitstate, please tell me I'm right :) 18:14 < jim> I saw gramma a couple times 18:14 < jim_chat> I can disable a touch pad while typing but not that stupid track point that I keep hitting... grumble grumble. 18:15 < jml2> zerowaitstate, not on the weed or that grammar nazi cop :) 18:15 < jml2> zerowaitstate, but the fact that aws is poop with LABEL= ... 18:15 * lovetruth sends a drone that runs linux and uses face recognition to kill jml2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlO2gcs1YvM :)) 18:15 < solidfox> woah 18:16 < solidfox> weapons technology is scary 18:16 < solidfox> I hope we will remain free in the future 18:17 < jml2> lovetruth, easy to defeat with a jammer... there's thing such as anti-drone jamming devices 18:17 < jml2> lovetruth, because drones are the new flies... 18:17 < jml2> lovetruth, some high-tech companies have their anti-drone police :) 18:18 < jml2> lovetruth, (espionage :) 18:23 < jim_chat> jamming is generally not legal despite your ability to get a device that does it. 18:23 < lovetruth> jml2: the drone is not controlled via WiFi or something... :)) it's just set to target and go and hit... :) but yes -> there are anti-drone techniques... like a drone catcher, etc... :) 18:24 < lovetruth> even a good EMP might fix it... :) 18:24 < jml2> you apparently don't know what a jamming device is :) 18:24 < jml2> it can do more than just wireless communications and interrupt actual electronic circuit flow :) 18:25 < jml2> it can be done even on battery-sparkplug circuits against your automobile :) 18:25 < jml2> "automobile" such a beautiful word :) 18:25 < jml2> but then you need a much higher powered jamming device.. (nato has such a jamming device XD) 18:26 < lovetruth> ah... those jamming devices... :)) I thought at only disrupting-signals jammer... :) 18:26 < jml2> as long as your automobile does not fly that wouldn't bother the major populace XD 18:27 < jml2> even if there's pre-select target, definitely there would be something of high-enough energy jammning device to bring down small drones.. 18:28 < mawk> if I sent something not ipv4/ipv6 to openvpn or another vpn software, how would it react ? 18:28 < mawk> knowing that in tun mode you don't have information about the upcoming data size 18:29 < mawk> or maybe ipv4 and ipv6 is all that is supported 18:43 < jim> Happyhobo, did you get your nic working from yesterday? 18:45 < kishmesh> what's a good practice to transfer files from/to airgapped system? 18:45 < Raed> A usb drive? 18:45 < jim> what's air gapped? 18:45 < IlIlIIlIll> why is it air gapped? 18:45 < Raed> jim: Not connected to a network 18:46 < mawk> is there a standard header that describes the ipv4 header ? 18:46 < azarus> mawk: look at the r 18:46 < kishmesh> Raed: sounds sensible 18:46 < azarus> rfc* 18:46 < kishmesh> IlIlIIlIll: has private keys 18:46 < mawk> it's for programmatic use azarus 18:46 < kishmesh> IlIlIIlIll: for example 18:46 < mawk> but I found it, 18:47 < jim> oh ok... oh, which -C- header :) 18:47 < rypervenche> kishmesh: Some storage device, or set up a very restricted network that allows you to transfer data over it when you need to. 18:48 < IlIlIIlIll> OCR input 18:49 < mawk> yes jim 18:49 < mawk> sorry 18:49 < jim> np, just got up :) 18:56 < kishmesh> rypervenche: yes also a good idea. thank you. 18:58 < ciscon> one-time pad generated on the air gapped machine would do nicely 18:59 < L0g4nAd4ms> anybody know how to shrink a logical volume and use that free space to extend another lv ? 19:03 < triceratux> https://www.linux.org.ru/news/ubuntu/14173327 19:03 < ice9> L0g4nAd4ms, to reduce it to 5GB ---> lvreduce -L 5G /dev/vg/disk-name 19:04 < ice9> L0g4nAd4ms, lvextend to extend another volume 19:04 < L0g4nAd4ms> ice9, well actuall i used that but i corrupted the shrunken partition 19:04 < L0g4nAd4ms> currently i am restoring a backup 19:04 < L0g4nAd4ms> and i did not shrunk it to a size that was smaller than the used space 19:05 < cxc99> anyone care to guess why a lot of test vm's for rhce/rhcsa practice copy /root/cacert.p12 to /var/ftp/pub ? 19:06 < ice9> L0g4nAd4ms, you have to unmount any partition before resizing it and you can use "fsck -a" to check the and repair the filesystem 19:06 < jml2> you should make sure if "lv" is smart enough to resize the filesystem first, (always make a backup) -- fwiw there's resize2fs -- last time I tried a shrink I created corruption (had a backup XD) 19:06 < L0g4nAd4ms> well i did that from a resuce system - duh. the system was powered off 19:08 < L0g4nAd4ms> thats why i don't know why the corruption occured 19:10 < jml2> :) 19:10 < L0g4nAd4ms> jml2, what do you mean with lv is smart enough ? 19:10 < jml2> that was a typo,.. lvresize is what I meant.. 19:10 < squirrel> suppose i've got some kind of a real world vps, can i run another virtual machine on it? is it practical? 19:11 < jml2> "lvresize allows you to resize a logical volume. Be careful when reducing a logical volume's size, because data in the reduced part is lost!!!" 19:11 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, ^ 19:11 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, https://linux.die.net/man/8/lvresize 19:11 < squirrel> (not gonna do it, just wondering) 19:11 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, "-r, --resizefs 19:11 < jml2> Resize underlying filesystem together with the logical volume using fsadm" 19:11 < meyou> nested virtualization is frowned upon but it's been done 19:11 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, it probably supports it properly, but you have to use "-r" 19:12 < irwiss> squirrel: if you want isolation inside the VM you could look into lxd/docker/etc 19:12 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, if you have "no data" on that lv (eg, "no filesystem"), then -r is irrelevant.. 19:12 < meyou> there was a vmware lab that includes two ESXi VMs floating around back in the day 19:12 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, but you should always be doing a backup 19:12 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, supported filesystems would of course be ext2/3/4 dont think any other.. 19:13 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, "fsadm utility checks or resizes the filesystem on a device. It tries to use the same API for ext2, ext3, ext4, ReiserFS and XFS filesystem." https://linux.die.net/man/8/fsadm 19:13 < L0g4nAd4ms> yes i have a backup. still wonder why it corrupted the partition. only because it did not use the -r flag ? 19:13 < squirrel> i see thanks 19:13 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, if you read the manpage 19:14 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, you are by default resizing the block device "start offset to finish offset" only two numbers are of interest, and not any actual data... 19:14 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, fsadm handles to resize the actual filesystem so that it is shrunk before the new "finish offset" is polished for lv. 19:15 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, it's the same idea using a partition manager and resizing the partition and not using a filesystem shrink.. 19:15 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, the tools you see on Winbloze tend to do both at the same time... 19:15 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, Gparted-live can do both at the same time, but I do not know if it can do for lvm things.. 19:16 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, it probably can, as I see a shrink support for lvm2 pv https://gparted.org/features.php 19:24 < sleepingforest> is there anyway to inspect NFQUEUE? to see how many entries in it need processed? 19:27 < L0g4nAd4ms> how can i check the used space from the command line of a (not mounted) partition ? 19:28 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, maybe e2fsdump 19:29 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, rather it is dumpe2fs 19:29 < Blizzkid> Back online to try and troubleshoot an influxdb that suddenly exploded in size. Anyone online able to help? Eternal gratitude will be your part. 19:29 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, you can use -h to display just the header information 19:30 < noway96> I'm trying to figure out my processor socket type from dmidecode. Is it always the Designated Socket entry in the Processors section? 19:31 < jml2> noway96, easier with cat /proc/cpuinfo 19:31 < jml2> noway96, it'll give you the full processor name 19:31 < L0g4nAd4ms> well it only shows the free blocks but not the human readable how much space in GB that is 19:31 < jml2> noway96, from there you can just google that name and it'll give you the intel specs... boom 19:32 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, well you have #blocks and #free blocks.. pretty easy to see how much space is left... 19:32 < noway96> jml2, well I'm trying to automate this process for an embedded device . . . 19:32 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, take 1 egg out of a carton of 12 that gives you 11 left :) 19:33 < jml2> noway96, dunno SoC's are big liars... they're company-custom :) 19:33 < L0g4nAd4ms> well i just mounted the partition temporarily and checked with with df. computers are for doing that kinda work ;) 19:33 < jml2> noway96, vhdl... 19:34 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, its possible stupid things can happen if you dont resize your filesystem... 19:34 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, mass corruption between overlapping partitions.. so you better be sure you resized that filesystem.. 19:34 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, and restore whatever 19:35 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, better if you nuke that filesystem and just restore 19:37 < L0g4n> the part where i fucked up happened after that, the snapshot i am working was created 12 hours prior 19:37 < L0g4n> nice my nick is ghosted 19:41 < Blizzkid> Anyone any idea why a subdir in /var/lib/influxdb/data/Energylogger/autogen would suddenly be 679GB? 19:42 < meyou> define suddenly 19:42 < djph> ^ that. Also, porn. 19:43 < Blizzkid> meyou: system has been running since january. Most dirs in there are +/- 80 MB, some are +/- 200 MB, but one is 679 GB 19:44 < jml2> Blizzkid, maybe you're reading the size of a sparse file lol 19:44 < jml2> Blizzkid, the real size would show with du 19:44 < meyou> Blizzkid, first hit on google is an irc log from #influxdb on freenode 19:44 < meyou> that might be a good place to ask :o 19:44 < Blizzkid> meyou: that channel is always very (like really very) silent 19:45 < Blizzkid> and yes, it's the real size, it contains 42000 .tsm files 19:45 < jml2> Blizzkid, and the size of your disk is? 19:45 < meyou> 680GB :p 19:45 < jml2> Blizzkid, you can have a sparse file showing greater than the size of the disk.. 19:46 < jml2> Blizzkid, and du would show the true size... 19:46 < Blizzkid> jml2: 916G 19:46 < Blizzkid> jml2: I checked the size with du 19:46 < jml2> probably those things are rollback commits... 19:46 < L0g4nAd4ms> jml2, so it worked now. the error indeed was i forgot the resizefs flag so it only changed the lvm size but not the actual size of the underlying filesystem i guess. 19:46 < meyou> is this machine attached to some hardware that monitors a power meter? 19:46 < jml2> used for recovery purposes... 19:47 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, well that's what happened.. 19:47 < L0g4nAd4ms> i thought that would happend automatically 19:47 < meyou> vague googling tells me that's what data is stored there 19:47 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, you should redo the lv resize once again to make sure no LVM extends metadata is corrupted as well 19:47 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, ^^^ 19:47 < Blizzkid> jml2: for months it have been really small dirs and now such a huge one. doesn't make sense at all 19:47 < jim> Blizzkid, so you know... there is a bot, alis, that can assist you in looking for channels on the Freenode irc net. To start, /msg alis help 19:47 < jml2> L0g4nAd4ms, even if you lvresize 1 megabyte down... 19:47 < Kremator> hey guys, how can i make wget to download a subdirectory (--no-parent) but making the links in the webpages to only point towards to local files (only the ones downloaded ofc) 19:48 < djph> Kremator: -k, I think. 19:48 < Kremator> im trying to download the whole php.net documentation for offline view 19:48 < Blizzkid> jim: I know about the #influxdb chan, but as I said: it's always (like really, always) pretty dead in there 19:48 < jml2> Blizzkid, maybe it there was a crash and now a huge coredump XD 19:49 < jml2> Blizzkid, is it still growing? 19:49 < VectorX> Kremator would this help, http://php.net/download-docs.php 19:49 < jml2> Blizzkid, loopie loops... 19:49 < jim> Blizzkid, gotcha... I offered the alis thing in case there's another, more active, channel out there 19:50 < Blizzkid> thx jim, but it's the only chan according to alis 19:50 < Kremator> VectorX, nope, that documentatino for some reason doesnt work well, it has a encoding problem 19:50 < Kremator> beside i would like to keep it the same as the original webpage 19:50 < VectorX> Kremator sure 19:50 < Blizzkid> jml2: do you even have an idea what influxdb is? 19:50 < Blizzkid> Just checking because you talk about coredumps 19:51 < jml2> Blizzkid, coredumps are big.. 19:51 < Blizzkid> jml2: so, you have no clue. 19:51 < jml2> Blizzkid, not claiming I know influxdb.. 19:52 < jml2> Blizzkid, I don't :) 19:53 < jml2> Blizzkid, it's a paid product so why are you asking on opensource channels? lol 19:54 < jml2> dunno about it spotted me some https://www.influxdata.com/ 19:54 * jml2 digresses 19:55 < meyou> and whether or not its dead, throw your question in there, may get a reply later, in the mean time maybe someone will show up who knows that product in here 19:55 < Blizzkid> meyou: yeah, that's what I did now 19:56 < jml2> meyou, free trial for 14 days :)) 19:58 < meyou> and if it's a SQL-based db, ##sql might also have somebody who knows it 20:00 < jml2> meyou, no such thing as an sql-based db XD 20:00 < jml2> meyou, sql is a standard for query databases, not designing their implementation/storage mechanics :) 20:00 < meyou> semantics 20:00 < jml2> not semantics. 20:00 < meyou> semantics. 20:00 < jml2> a lot of people make this mistake :) 20:00 * jml2 makes mistakes too :) 20:00 < meyou> a lot of people make this semantic mistake 20:00 < meyou> and a few people nitpick it 20:01 < jml2> ./for querying./ 20:01 < jml2> #sql wouldn't be helpful in his case.. 20:01 < meyou> unless it is 20:01 < jml2> i have mariadb master/slave replication setup.. i know a thing or two.. 20:01 < jml2> about databases, and what is sql... :) 20:01 < meyou> #pulseaudio could be helpful 20:02 < meyou> if somebody in there knows that software 20:02 < meyou> ##sql is a little more likely to house somebody who knows that software than your average channel 20:02 < jml2> poettering is in there.. give him a salut 20:03 < Blizzkid> meyou: I'll have a look there too 20:03 * jml2 upgrades kernels and goes to #pulseaudio XD 20:03 < jml2> pulseaudio will fix ya influxdb!!! 20:03 < jml2> :))) 20:04 < ssarah> hei guys, i have a user that belongs to a group, i have a file that belongs to that group 20:04 < catphish> so, i'm embarking on making a cluster (ie drbd or similar) aware iscsi server, couldn't really find anything existing to do this, thought i'd mention it, dunno if there's much iscsi expertise here, but i may be back with questions :) 20:04 < ssarah> i get permission denied reading that file 20:04 < ssarah> what gives? 20:04 < catphish> ssarah: goes the file have g+w? 20:04 < catphish> sorry, g+r for read 20:04 < ssarah> catphish, -rwxrwx--- <- i think so right? 20:05 < catphish> ssarah: yes, the user and group owners should both have full access to it 20:05 < ssarah> group owner? is that different from group member? 20:05 < jim> ssarah, ok... when did you put the user in the group? 20:05 < revel> ssarah: Can you access other stuff in the directory it's in? 20:05 < catphish> ssarah: there are 2 possibilities: 1) the user isnt in the group, if you just added the user to the group, it may need to log out and back in 20:05 < ssarah> just now, but i logged out and in from the machine 20:05 < revel> Oh, yeah, check `groups 20:05 < revel> ` 20:06 < catphish> 2) maybe the user dosn't have access to the directory (or eveb a directroy above) 20:06 < ssarah> when i do id as the user the group shows up 20:06 < jml2> ssarah, if you type "groups" it'll show your current group memberships 20:06 < jim> and you still get perm denied? 20:06 < catphish> ssarah: ok, so check the user ca cd into the directory 20:06 < catphish> *can 20:06 < catphish> if not, you need to fix the directory permissions 20:07 < ssarah> he can cd into the directory 20:07 < catphish> then i'm out of ideas, maybe paste the full output of "id" and "ls -al filename" 20:07 < ssarah> i can access other stuff but that other stuff has read permissions for others, that's what im trying to avoid 20:08 < jim> ssarah, here's a handy pastebin: you can pastebin the output of an arbitrary command by running "anArbitraryCommand | nc termbin.com 9999", and to include error messages, "anArbitraryCommand 2>&1 | nc termbin.com 9999" 20:08 < catphish> jim: i always forget about that, it's cool 20:09 < jml2> we should use whatsapp video 20:09 < jml2> and put our phones facing our screens 20:09 < jml2> faster than a pastebin! 20:09 < catphish> lol 20:09 < jim> can't copy/paste from a video :) 20:09 < catphish> back to lerning iscsi :) 20:10 < jml2> I have a little stand for my phone too XD 20:10 < ssarah> https://www.pastiebin.com/5ae3677642aa8 20:10 < xdexter> Hello! I have this values https://pastebin.com/AWyPZerT and i need create a javascript regex to filter only 3 fisrt fileds, it's possible? 20:10 < Blizzkid> catphish: man nmcli has everything you need to know ;-) 20:10 < ssarah> see anything wrong with that? 20:10 < catphish> Blizzkid: i doubt that somehow :( 20:10 < meyou> jim: that's going into my bag-o-tricks thx 20:11 < jml2> Blizzkid, what does nmcli have to do with iscsi? 20:11 < jml2> lol 20:11 < noway96> I want to know the number of USB1, USB2, USB3, Parallel, and Serial Ports attached to my desktop. Is there some linux tool I can use? 20:11 < jim> meyou, welcome :) and, please expand thx 20:12 < jml2> noway96, yeah, lsusb maybe? 20:12 < catphish> ssarah: weird, no idea :( 20:12 < meyou> i still don't understand the "expand thx" mania in here 20:12 < Blizzkid> jml2: nothing at all, I was mixing up things because I wasn't paying attention. 20:12 < catphish> i feel like that should work, unless selinux is getting in the way 20:12 < jml2> noway96, there's a front-end called "hardinfo" and is given different package names on different distro-- it's a gui on X11.... more easier to read than text commands 20:12 < meyou> i understand english isn't everyone's first language, but thx is pretty common lingo, seems that would be worth learning for ESL peeps 20:12 < jim> meyou, well, for example... please spell out u as you, it helps people (particularly new english speakers) to understand, at least, most of what's going on 20:13 < jml2> noway96, https://github.com/lpereira/hardinfo -- if this is what you're after.. 20:13 < catphish> meyou: i got banned from this channel last time i used abreviations, someone is quite worried about it 20:13 < markasoftware> using full words on IRc isn't for the benefit of ELL 20:13 < jml2> noway96, (it's packaged already on some distros ) 20:13 < ssarah> Thing is, I just created this group and added user to that group 20:13 < MrElendig> noway96: usb ports are non-trivial to detect 20:13 < ssarah> is it possible i need to reboot? 20:13 < ssarah> or something 20:14 < jml2> noway96, I think all distros, but it may be titled different with your packcage manager. 20:14 < catphish> but it's true that avoiding unnecessary abreviation helps everyone's understanding :) 20:14 < jim> ssarah, just a sec 20:14 < MrElendig> noway96: and how would you count them? what about internal headers that are not connected to the case? 20:14 < catphish> ssarah: definitely shouldn't need to reboot 20:14 < Blizzkid> catphish jml2 I meant targetcli of course 20:15 < jml2> quite far fetched with NetworkManager of things.. 20:15 < catphish> Blizzkid: in fact everything i need to know is here: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3720 20:15 < jml2> mwhahaha 20:15 < catphish> but it's heavy going 20:15 < Blizzkid> jml2: yeah, I was also talking to a colleague about network stuff 20:15 < catphish> and in fact the iscsi spec doesn't include the scsi spec itself, so even more reading 20:15 < Blizzkid> people sometimes mix up things you know ;-) 20:15 < jml2> i know NM is a beast to understand at times.. 20:16 < jml2> RH requires NM-knowledge these days 20:16 < jml2> it's in their rhcsa curriculum 20:16 < noway96> jml2, awesome utility ! thanks for the super fast response 20:16 < jml2> so yeah... don't flush out NM, we must learn how to use it.. 20:16 < Blizzkid> jml2: I know. I passed the RHCSA 20:16 < jml2> Blizzkid, that's good 20:16 < jml2> noway96, known about it for quite some time.. 20:16 < jml2> noway96, it's installed by default on the *buntus'.. 20:17 < contrapunctus> o/ 20:17 < jml2> noway96, when projects are passed hands the names sometimes change... and so do the package names.. 20:17 < jml2> noway96, that project has been called various things... 20:18 < noway96> jml2 I see 20:18 < contrapunctus> I'm trying to associate geo: URIs with a custom script (on a Debian 9.2 system). Is there any documentation for doing this in a DE-agnostic way? Trying to understand https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/XDG_MIME_Applications makes my head spin :\ 20:18 < jim> meyou, some of those abbreviations could presume the person you say them to hear them in their head the same way you do, and therefore understand them the same way you do... it's true for some people, but not all 20:18 < ssarah> the way i added the user to the group was manually, i just edited /etc/group, but the user i created with the command addgroup -g 20:18 < ssarah> is it wrong to add members manually to /etc/group ? 20:19 < MrElendig> generally yes 20:19 < jml2> noway96, what i don't like is that when a distro integrates or modifies a feature or two and then completely renames their package for their own taste-- then leave out all hte necessary documentation still relevant for it.. 20:19 < MrElendig> also addgroup doesn't create users 20:19 < jim> ssarah, I'm thinking that one of the dirs along the path to that file is denying something, so I'm writing a helper script 20:19 < jml2> noway96, this happens on occassion.. 20:19 < noway96> jml2 yeah that could be annoying 20:19 * noway96 out for lunch 20:19 < ssarah> jim, i tried cd'ing individually to every dir 20:20 < ssarah> sorry, i meant groupadd -g <- that's what i used 20:21 < jim> ssarah, groupadd creates a group :) 20:21 < ssarah> yeh, and then i edited /etc/group with nano, maybe that's the flaw? 20:21 < MrElendig> you never created a user 20:21 < ssarah> that user exists, i'm using it 20:21 < geosmin> have overscan issues from desktop to 2005 plasma tv. i was able to calibrate overscan correctly with kodi and pulled these values from guisettings.xml '1920x1080, left 34, top 12, right 1897, bottom 1055' #kodi says all rendering is done in opengl and doesn't use xrandr. any way i can adapt these settings to the latter? 20:22 < jim> maybe you didn't add the user to the group? 20:22 < MrElendig> also group changes requires you to log out/in 20:22 < MrElendig> for them to take effect 20:22 < contrapunctus> I'm trying to associate geo: URIs with a custom script (on a Debian 9.2 system). Is there any documentation for doing this in a DE-agnostic way? Trying to understand https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/XDG_MIME_Applications makes my head spin :\ 20:22 < ssarah> jim, ill try removing the users manually and then using a tool. MrElendig i did log out and in from the ssh session 20:23 < MrElendig> and how are you checking the membership? 20:23 < ssarah> i put a pastie up there 20:24 < ssarah> with id 20:24 < ssarah> or groups 20:24 < catphish> ssarah: you might want to check all your logs in /var/log to see if there's anything about it being blocked by selinux 20:25 < ssarah> selinux ? 20:25 < ssarah> ok, ill tail it 20:26 < catphish> selinux is a security tool that can block things based on policies to improve security 20:26 < catphish> i'm not sure why it would be causing this, but i don't have any other ideas 20:27 < rgb-one> I think I found a bug with cp 20:27 < phogg> contrapunctus: xdg mime is not so much confusing as broken 20:27 < MrElendig> grpck 20:27 < catphish> rgb-one: lol really? 20:28 < rgb-one> nah 20:28 < rgb-one> mb :P 20:28 < rgb-one> I was pointing to the same file 20:28 < rgb-one> as it rightly said 20:28 < catphish> haha 20:28 < ssarah> wow,now root cant read it. im stasrting to think it's because this is a mout 20:28 < ssarah> mount 20:30 < MrElendig> ? 20:30 < Sitri> What kind of mount? 20:30 < MrElendig> can't read what? 20:31 < Sitri> A png file 20:31 < MrElendig> and what does stat say about the file? 20:31 < MrElendig> and what is the error? 20:32 < Sitri> tail: cannot open `M74237.png' for reading: Permission denied 20:32 < Psi-Jack> ls -l M74237.png 20:32 < Sitri> https://www.pastiebin.com/5ae3677642aa8 20:32 < Psi-Jack> Ugh.. Use a proper pastebin that doesn't destroy it. 20:33 < MrElendig> and stat > ls 20:33 < ssarah> root@imgs-fe01:/fasmounts/winsites/SportStats/Service/3/Teams# tail -f M74237.png 20:33 < ssarah> tail: cannot open `M74237.png' for reading: Permission denied 20:33 < ssarah> ^that 20:33 < MrElendig> if using ls, atleast tell it to use numeral uid/gid 20:33 < phogg> Sitri: are you a member of that file's group? 20:34 < Sam_S3pi0L> does the file need restricted access? 20:34 < Sitri> phogg: not me, ssarah 20:34 < ssarah> im root 20:34 < ssarah> right now im root i should be able to whatever i wanted to that file 20:35 < Sitri> ssarah: What's the mount filesystem? NFS or a FUSE thing? 20:35 < Psi-Jack> ssarah: Yeah, stat that file and paste to a proper pastebin. stat M74237.png | nc termbin.com 9999 20:35 < Sam_S3pi0L> the file could be restricted from root. check ls -l and see what permissions are implemented. 20:36 < Sam_S3pi0L> if you only need temporary access you could chmod 777 which grants access to all users. 20:36 < ssarah> nfs 20:36 < Psi-Jack> Sam_S3pi0L: never 777! 20:36 < catphish> nfs would definitely explain the weirdness 20:37 < catphish> although i'm not sure how you'd go about fixing it 20:37 < Sam_S3pi0L> Understood Psi, but it's temporary. If 777 won't work. 464 grants more restricted permissions. 20:38 < Psi-Jack> Sam_S3pi0L: Can we temporarily pluck your head off your shoulders? ;) 20:38 < SuperSeriousCat> Just make sure its the same UID/GID on both NFS server and client. Name dont mean anything 20:38 < Psi-Jack> Identify the actual problem, not apply bad bandaids. 20:38 < Psi-Jack> ssarah: stat output, please. 20:39 < Sam_S3pi0L> Psi, I ask that I be carried in nothing less than a Crown Royal velvet bag with a drinking straw. 20:39 < Psi-Jack> Ewww, Crown? Man. Low standards. :) 20:39 < Sam_S3pi0L> Sorry, I can't afford Henny VSOP every night. 20:39 < ssarah> https://www.pastiebin.com/5ae36e6370e4b 20:40 < Psi-Jack> ssarah: I said a pastebin that doesn't such. pastebin.com is frowned upon due to many issues they themselves have caused. Pastes being reformatted, malvertising, adblock blocking, being blocked due to many reasons. See /topic for the channel's official pastebin. 20:40 < mutante> it's just a single night though 20:40 < ssarah> sorry 20:40 < mutante> pastiebin != pastebin ? 20:41 < Psi-Jack> pastiebin was worse. 20:41 < ssarah> https://paste.linux.community/view/24da1d4d 20:41 < Psi-Jack> There we go. :) 20:42 < jim> Psi-Jack, is pastiebin bad? 20:42 < Psi-Jack> Okay, stat looks fine. Got 0770 permissions, uid, gid mappings. 20:42 < Psi-Jack> jim: It destroyed wrapping. 20:42 < Psi-Jack> Literally destroyed... 20:43 < Psi-Jack> Maybe was a bad paste to begin with though, I don't know. :) 20:43 < jim> like a kid at christmas\ 20:43 < Psi-Jack> ssarah: NFSv3 or NFSv4? 20:43 < ssarah> i duno, how can i check that? 20:43 < Psi-Jack> mount | grep nfs 20:44 < jim> I'm trying to write a path iterator in python3 20:44 < ssarah> vers=3 20:44 < Psi-Jack> So, eww, 3. On the NFS server side, is root_squash used? 20:44 < Psi-Jack> In the exports? 20:45 < ssarah> cant go into the server, it's a storage unit i dont have access to 20:45 < Psi-Jack> Ahh. Well, then. That is unfortunate. 20:45 < ssarah> i can see the same mount and file on another machine tho: -rwxrwx--- 1 1000082 1000001 22463 May 30 2017 M74237.png 20:46 < ssarah> so there's a guid and a gid, those are coming from the mount right? 20:46 < ssarah> the server i mean 20:46 < tempate> Hello. What's the correct way of executing a file "./example-file" which is in another directory? If I do "./example-directory/example-file" it work but it doesn't when doing "./home/user/example-directory/example-file". What am I missing here? 20:47 < urodna> How can I escape command substitution? So I want `echo $(command)` to print $(command) rather than the result of executing command. 20:48 < bindi> tempate: just "/home/blah/file" 20:48 < Sitri> ssarah: So the way NFS works with UIDs and GIDs is it has a protocol that handles a mapping or translation of them. So when you have a file owned by userX locally with a UID of 5555, the server is told that your UID of 5555 means userX, and it will look up its own userX which happens to be 7777 for example. But, if the server doesn't have that username, then it doesn't work. Which is probably your issue. 20:48 < tempate> bindi: Thank you very much 20:48 < Sitri> Eitherway, at this point, you have to work with whoever maintains your NFS server to get things working. 20:49 < ssarah> ok, ill pass this info to someone who has access to the server 20:49 < triceratux> urodna: echo '$(command)' 20:49 < SuperSeriousCat> Sitri, It dont care about username. Only ID number 20:50 < Sitri> SuperSeriousCat: there's a translation feature that does care about the username, and will map the IDs 20:51 < Sitri> Given that the other server gave a very wildly different ID, I'd have to say the username mapping is in effect. Or at least some kind of mapping. 20:52 * aBound eats three tacos :P 20:54 * NGC3982 eats a sammich. 20:55 * aBound eats NGC3982 sammich :P 20:57 * ssarah eats 1 prego 20:57 < Kremator> guys, the default config. of a package is defined by my distro or by the config stored in repository? 20:58 < Kremator> because i want to install "GNOOMe" in my xubuntu at home, but i do want it to have the defaults it have in debian 9, not the uglyness of vanilla ubuntu 20:58 < MrElendig> just apt install gnome(-*) and then change the theme afterwards 20:59 < ssarah> https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/10/install-vanilla-gnome-shell-ubuntu-17-10 <- this? 21:00 < ssarah> I usually go for ubuntu instead of debian cause it has newer stuff out of the box, like the kernel. You guys agree with my reasoning? 21:01 < Kremator> ssarah, perfectly, same reason why i do use ubuntu STS at home, but i can say debian 9 atm is pretty sweet 21:02 < Kremator> and do we use it here at work because we have a local mirror :) 21:02 < ssarah> :) 21:02 < aBound> Figures, with Debian you'd have to setup a few extras just to make it function with a few things. 21:03 < MrElendig> have to do that with ubuntu too 21:03 < triceratux> ssarah: plus ubuntu tends to be on the leading edge of deploying vital technologies like systemd-resolved. debian wind up playing catch-up years later 21:03 < MrElendig> 18.04 ships with the same version of weechat as 17.10 which is just 21:03 < MrElendig> etc 21:03 < ssarah> weechat? 21:03 < MrElendig> and good luck if you want to use one of the new amd apus 21:04 < ssarah> oh crap.. i just got a new amd ryzen 2700x + mobo they arrive on tuesday 21:04 < ssarah> im going to be a windows boy? 21:04 < MrElendig> ssarah: that is not an apu 21:05 < aBound> Don't be a Windows girl. :P 21:05 < Kremator> MrElendig, wait, shouldnt 18.04 use a more "estable" (a.k.a old) version of the 17.0 version? 21:05 < MrElendig> Kremator: not in this case no 21:05 < aBound> Psi-Jack, Hey don't you use VSCode do you have a config file I can view? I may have to steal a few ideas from you. :P 21:06 < Kremator> ssarah, if you become windows boi with such machine you should be ashamed, imagine how fast you could compile your very own kernel config for gentoo :P 21:07 < ssarah> -_- never gentoo.. i might go for arch again for it's bleeding edge stuff and kernel. I had arch for about a week before i decided it was bad. Now the thing is, and this happens often to me, i forget why things are bad and then want to try them again. 21:07 < aBound> Last time I used Gentoo has been more then a decade. :P 21:08 < triceratux> theres better arch out there than just arch https://swagarch.github.io/ 21:08 < Sitri> That's not really fixing any root issues of Arch though 21:09 < MrElendig> triceratux: except all those forks are way worse 21:09 < toothe> Anyone use IOMMU? 21:09 < klotz> what's there to fix about arch anyway? 21:09 < toothe> for PCI passthrough? 21:09 < klotz> it's great as it is 21:10 < MrElendig> toothe: not a single person on the planet do, you are the first one 21:10 < IlIlIIlIll> you still haven't gotten your pci passthru to work !? 21:10 < MrElendig> /s 21:10 < toothe> MrElendig: that is likely. 21:10 < toothe> no, i did get PCI passthrough working on my Intel. 21:10 < triceratux> MrElendig: im a casual arch person like im a casual gamer. i just need a liveiso 21:10 < MrElendig> http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html 21:10 < toothe> but, there was a bug that prevented the HDMI working 21:10 < IlIlIIlIll> heh 21:10 < MrElendig> trying to pass the igp to the vm? 21:11 < toothe> which I thought was an unacceptable situation - I've moved on to just using a stand alone machine. 21:12 < toothe> sucks, i guess 21:12 < IlIlIIlIll> hdmi does suck 21:12 < toothe> its a bug in the kernel that no one ever resolved. 21:12 < ssarah> i tried installing gentoo a few times on a vm. never finished. felt ashamed. 21:13 < toothe> is Gentoo the crazy distro where you have to compile everything? 21:13 < solidfox> toothe, no 21:13 < solidfox> toothe, thats linux from scratch 21:13 < MrElendig> they have a lot of binary packages too, but yes they are crazy 21:13 < MrElendig> solidfox: lfs is NOT a distro 21:13 < hexnewbie> toothe: Gentoo compiles it for you. 21:13 < solidfox> toothe, gentoo is the one where the package manager has to compile a lot of packages. 21:13 < MrElendig> lfs is a set of documentation and tools to create a distro 21:13 < toothe> what is the purpose of that? 21:14 < MrElendig> to help create* 21:14 < solidfox> toothe, so you can choose the options you want 21:14 < dgurney> dunno what's so crazy about Gentoo honestly, it's just a distro that's meant to be incredibly flexible 21:14 < solidfox> toothe, for example, you can compile firefox without drm controls 21:14 < toothe> solidfox: so, why not just compile those packages and have everythign else prepackaged? 21:14 < dgurney> there's really no other way to make a flexible distro than have most things compiled from source 21:14 < MrElendig> dgurney: politics destroyed it 21:15 < triceratux> toothe: if you dont think youve encountered enough bugs to teach yourself linux from the highlevel distros, you can use lfs to seek them out & dwell on them 21:15 < dgurney> ??? 21:15 < solidfox> toothe, there's no reason to not use ubuntu if that's what you mean. 21:15 < toothe> like...lets say I want to compile 10 things. Is there a way to compile *just* those 10 things and package everything else? 21:15 < solidfox> toothe, its YOUR choice. 21:15 < toothe> I run Mint :) 21:15 < klotz> MrElendig: politics? what's the story there? 21:15 < MrElendig> dgurney: most of the competent devs were driven awayt 21:15 < dgurney> oh well 21:15 < dgurney> I care about the technical merits, not politics 21:15 < triceratux> even the founder founded somethng new 21:15 < MrElendig> klotz: things like "I will refuse any suggestion you make just because I hate you, no matter how techically sound they are" 21:16 < MrElendig> dgurney: see ^ 21:16 < Kremator> toothe, indeed, gentoo is one of those distro where you have to compile everything, or at elast if you want, you could still download binaries (aka already compiled programs) but it loose all the purpose of the distro 21:16 < justsomeguy> toothe: Sometimes. It depends on which packages they are. Some packages rely on other packages to have the compatible compile flags. That's one of the things the Gentoo package manager helps to solve. You can actually install binary packages on Gentoo, too. 21:16 < dgurney> I don't care 21:16 < klotz> MrElendig: hm that really sounds unreasonable 21:16 < MrElendig> dgurney: the politics negatively affected the techical quality 21:16 < Kremator> ssarah, the only good arch is the crash one 21:16 < dgurney> I don't care at all, it works for me, and is why I use it 21:17 < dgurney> actual politics pisses me off enough as is, so no need to concern myself with software ones 21:17 < ssarah> Kremator, crash one? 21:20 < alexandre9099> Hi, is it possible to see where is the packet loss of my connection? 21:21 < mutante> alexandre9099: with traceroute i guess 21:21 < meyou> beware of dishonest routers 21:22 < hexnewbie> alexandre9099: mtr 21:22 < alexandre9099> (I just did a ping test to 1.1.1.1 and I got 79% packet loss , I'll see traceroute 21:22 < alexandre9099> Mtr? 21:22 < hexnewbie> alexandre9099: mtr $hostname 21:22 < jim> is there a 1.1.1.1? 21:22 < alexandre9099> There is :) DNS from cloudflare 21:23 < meyou> 1dot1dot1dot1.cloudflare.com 21:23 < hexnewbie> alexandre9099: Just install package mtr, and run: mtr 1.1.1.1 21:23 < meyou> excellent hostname as well 21:23 < meyou> sorry 21:23 < meyou> 1dot1dot1dot1.cloudflare-dns.com 21:23 < hexnewbie> dot.dot.dot is a better hostname - try reading it to somebody 21:23 < alexandre9099> Hmm what should I see on mtr ? 21:24 < alexandre9099> Oh it's giving some output 21:24 < meyou> all of your hops, with continuous stats on their ping time, packet loss, etc 21:24 < hexnewbie> alexandre9099: It shows the loss for each hop 21:24 < alexandre9099> There is similar loss on every hop 21:24 < meyou> if there's loss on your default gw 21:25 < meyou> there's your problem 21:25 < hexnewbie> alexandre9099: Then your main pipe is where the loss is 21:25 < alexandre9099> 89 after my internal Network and 87 internal 21:25 < mutante> replace local ethernet cable 21:25 < alexandre9099> Now it is on 90% :D 21:26 < jim> ssarah, hi, are you still here? I wanted to have you do a test of the script I did :) 21:26 < ssarah> oh, sure thing jim 21:26 < meyou> alexandre9099 remove laptop from microwave 21:26 < ssarah> i hope it doesnt require root 21:26 < hexnewbie> If alexandre9099's provider is anything like mine, it can be connection between the cable modem and the ISP, some neighbour attaching themselves without authorisation, and/or the optical link to the gateway that's 3 miles away 21:27 < alexandre9099> Meyou it is wired connection :D 21:27 < hexnewbie> Or one of your neighbours is a gamer, and someone is DDoSing them 21:27 < jim> ssarah, cool :) I need just a couple mins to set it up :) (yeah not quite ready for prime time) 21:28 < meyou> got another device to test from alexandre9099? 21:28 < ssarah> oki 21:28 < meyou> see if it's your LAN or your device itself 21:28 < alexandre9099> hexnewbie I can't even conect to the router page, I'll try to reset it 21:29 < meyou> over/under on local IP conflict? 21:29 < alexandre9099> Yesterday I did direct connection between my laptop and desktop(where I'm having problems ) with no latency and gigabit speed, so the problem is not the cable ;) 21:29 < alexandre9099> meyou, hmm I don't think so, how can I check that? 21:30 < meyou> is your router also your switch? like an all-in-one home device? 21:30 < meyou> if not, turn it off and see if you can still ping its ip. if so, set a new IP on it and see if you can still ping the old IP and/or if that fixes your packet loss 21:31 < alexandre9099> It is (I have a weird setup, ISPs router [it is an hotspot] connected through wifi to a wireless repeater that is setup as bridge with owrt and then trough cable to my "personal" router ) 21:32 < catphish> i'm way too easily distracted, just started pinging out to test, and seeing random spikes in latency, want to know why now :) 21:32 < alexandre9099> (ISPs hotspot --wireless-- repeater -- wired-- my personal router --wired-- my PC) 21:34 < alexandre9099> Oh... I'm dumb AF 21:34 < catphish> lol 21:34 < noway96> So lsusb only shows 8 lines of output but I have 10 USB ports. Is there a way to know how many ports I have in total? Even better to know if they're USB1, USB2, or USB3 21:35 < catphish> alexandre9099: you might find that setup doesn't work great, you can't in theory bridge a wired connection to a wireless one without the whole wireless network being set up to support it, though it often works ok in practice 21:35 < alexandre9099> Yesterday I configured my desktop to have an interface which has its own ip (using veth, because some tutorial said to :D) the IP I set is the same as the router 21:35 < jim> ssarah, got it :) could you run: ls -ld / /fasmounts /fasmounts/winsites /fasmounts/winsites/SportStats /fasmounts/winsites/SportStats/Service /fasmounts/winsites/SportStats/Service/3 | nc termbain.com 9999 21:36 < alexandre9099> Well I had it working for like one year, I'll delete that iface and try again 21:36 < Sitri> noway96: Look at the hub lines, the /#p stuff gives you port counts. 21:36 < catphish> "wireless repeater that is setup as bridge with owrt and then trough cable to my "personal" router" << this part shouldn't work, but often does :) 21:36 < jim> something's missing, let me look 21:38 < alexandre9099> catphish well it has been working for a long time, it is an inverted AP :D The problem was with that interface that I created... 21:38 < alexandre9099> Now 0.0% packet loss :) 21:38 < catphish> alexandre9099: well that's all good then :) 21:38 < alexandre9099> Thanks guys ;) 21:39 < meyou> haha 21:39 < ssarah> https://paste.linux.community/view/bab14a6a <- this jim? 21:39 < meyou> good to know i can still sniff out an IP conflict 21:39 < alexandre9099> XD 21:40 < alexandre9099> With that 80% rate it meant that 80% of the packets where going to my PC and the other 20% actually made it to the internet? 21:41 < catphish> probably 21:41 < jim> ssarah, yeah, except my script isn't gettting the last thing along the path 21:42 < noway96> Sitri, here's an output line: "Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub". Where does it tell me number of ports? 21:42 < ssarah> jim, the file itself? 21:42 < Sitri> Ah sorry, `lsusb -t` noway96 21:43 < jim> ssarah, no, the last dir 21:43 < catphish> why would a USB ID belong to "linux foundation"? 21:43 < jim> cause they did it? 21:43 < catphish> is it an emulated device? 21:45 < jim> honestly, I'm not sure... I would assume they manufactured the device? 21:45 < noway96> Sitri, so an output line from "lsusb -t | grep hub" is "/: Bus 03.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=xhci_hcd/15p, 480M". So it's saying there are 15 USB ports? But I only have 10. 21:45 < catphish> i just found something: The "root hub" is a phony device and represents the bus itself. It always has a device number of 1 on whatever bus it sits on. The "manufacturer" is always 1d6b, the "Linux Foundation," but so far as I can tell, that's merely to create a "root" for the tree's "branches" 21:46 < catphish> so every usb bus has a root hub device, though it's not a physical device 21:46 < Sitri> noway96: It has support for 15 ports 21:46 < catphish> some ports will be internal, inside the chipset 21:47 < catphish> afaik there's no way to determine the number of physical ports 21:47 < TheWild> hello 21:47 < ssarah> jim, it's there on the command, i think it got cut from the paste 21:48 < catphish> hello 21:48 < catphish> lsusb -t is interesting, is shows the physical layout, with port numbers of some sort 21:49 < TheWild> what live Linux distro (less than 100MB) would you recommend me. I tried Minimal Linux Live and TinyCore, but both crash VirtualBox. Damn Small Linux does not recognize disks. 21:49 < TheWild> I need only working tty 21:50 < catphish> and disks 21:50 < jim> TheWild, most live cds are -much- larger than that... I guess they have x and a gui and stuff 21:51 < jim> ssarah, the last one I see is .../3 21:51 < jim> trying to see why 21:52 < triceratux> TheWild: basically slitaz 21:54 < TheWild> oh good, 43 MB. Going to check that one out. Thanks triceratux 21:54 < TheWild> I hope it won't crash VirtualBox 21:54 < aBound> Swoosh... 21:54 < ssarah> https://paste.linux.community/view/ad31dd48 <- like so, jim? 21:57 < noway96> Sitri, oh ok. So the bus supports 15 USB ports. Is there to know how many physical ports are actually present? 22:00 < Sitri> noway96: no 22:03 < TJ-> noway96: Yes, via the sysfs connect_type 22:03 < TJ-> noway96: e.g. "cat /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb1/1-0:1.0/usb1-port*/connect_type" ("not used", "hotplug", "hardwired") 22:04 < jim> ssarah, yeah, thanks :) it looks like you may have chmod 777ed a lot of that space... meanwhile, it's confirmed, my script is cutting off the last one 22:06 < mawk> I'm doing a vpn for fun, using the tun device 22:06 < mawk> I'm polling it using epoll, and I wonder about the most efficient way to pipe packets from the tun to the client socket and vice-versa 22:08 < mawk> for now I use level-triggered mode, and when I get an event I read the first 4 bytes to get the ethernet protocol number, then I read the ipv4/ipv6 header, then I read the remaining data for the packet 22:08 < mawk> as the tun device is in non blocking mode, I need to know if there could be partial packets in its buffer 22:08 < xyxxy> how do i get a hostname of a server on my network? i type host 100.100.100.100 in bash and get host 100.332.21.in-add.arpa not found. :-( 22:08 < mawk> that would be bad 22:08 < mawk> yes, that way xyxxy 22:09 < mawk> if it says not found, then there is not reverse dns for that ip address 22:12 < uplime> xyxxy: hostname 22:12 < uplime> host is for resolving DNS names 22:12 < uplime> similar to: dig url +short 22:13 < ssarah> jim, sucks that it's all 777ed 22:13 < ssarah> ty for your help jim 22:14 < gardotjar> Anyone have recommendations for text editors? 22:15 < MrElendig> gvim or neovim 22:15 < gardotjar> How do they differ from normal vim? 22:15 < uplime> i use nano primarily 22:15 < hipp> nano 22:15 < mawk> use emacs, gardotjar 22:15 < mawk> trust me 22:16 < gardotjar> With or without evil mode? 22:16 < mawk> it's the prettiest, and has the higher powerful/simplicity ratio 22:16 < mawk> just the plain emacs for Xorg 22:16 < triceratux> mousepad, beaver, gedit, kutvonen microemacs, mg, zile 22:16 < hipp> gedit or kate for graphical 22:18 < gardotjar> M'kay, I'll give the vim spinoffs & emacs a go, thanks 22:22 < superkuh> gvim or gedit, personally. 22:23 < NGC3982> why wont anyone use nano. i like nano :(. 22:24 < xyxxy> thanks uplime 22:24 < xamithan> Because it isn't installed by default 22:24 < MrElendig> NGC3982: because it breaks config files by default 22:24 < triceratux> it doesnt have an overtype mode 22:24 < MrElendig> hardwrap by default 22:25 < MrElendig> but it has macros now! 22:25 < xamithan> Why does the bottom of the screen got to list all the help too 22:25 < xamithan> Put that in a shortcut so I can see more 22:25 < milpool> it was only made for reading mail 22:25 < milpool> or writing mail 22:26 < triceratux> xamithan: the nano help text is a commandline or config option. it can be turned off 22:26 < xamithan> Never knew that, that's cool 22:27 < NGC3982> MrElendig: that sounds weird, and it has never happened to me. 22:27 < NGC3982> the only thing i miss is row numbers. 22:27 < xamithan> You can do that using -c 22:28 < NGC3982> oh 22:28 < NGC3982> cool. 22:28 < xamithan> Then alt+g for jumping 22:28 < MrElendig> NGC3982: your distro is probably changing the upstream default 22:29 < MrElendig> NGC3982: https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/11290 22:29 < AbleBacon> so, i messed up editing my "/etc/profile" file, and now when i try to log into "root", i end up logged in as "-sh-4.3" and i can't do anything 22:30 < NGC3982> MrElendig: i see. 22:30 < AbleBacon> and "root" is the only other account on the machine 22:31 < xamithan> You should be able to fix that from single user mode, if not that. Then a rescue disc 22:31 < MrElendig> AbleBacon: basically you should never edit /etc/profile and use /etc/profile.d/herpaderp.sh instead on any sane distro 22:31 < AbleBacon> :( 22:32 < MrElendig> AbleBacon: anyway you can try booting with init=sh and then fix it 22:32 < MrElendig> (or some other shell if you have one) 22:32 < AbleBacon> this is an embedded thing, so i get a login prompt as soon as i remote into it 22:33 < MrElendig> this is why you should test first :p 22:33 < AbleBacon> ughhhh and i'm not allowed to physically open this unit to get to the SD card 22:34 < AbleBacon> i'll find a quiet room where nobody will notice and get it open anyway. thanks 22:35 < NGC3982> what is it? 22:35 < MrElendig> if you are not allowed to open it, cut a slot and extract the card instead :p 22:36 < irwinz> hire Tom Cruise to come in from the vent in the ceiling and retrieve the sd card 22:36 < NGC3982> and then, get denied becauase you are not into scientology and use jeremy renner instead 22:37 < twainwek> you're not allowed or are you not Able? 22:41 < geophertz> Can I get help here ? 22:42 < twainwek> only time will tell 22:42 < geophertz> I was wondering what is the practical difference of rysnc and scp 22:42 < geophertz> ? 22:42 < geophertz> I intended use is to backup on a raspberry-pi. 22:42 < geophertz> *the intended use 22:43 < jml2> geophertz, rsync is used for over the network, cp doesn't. :) 22:43 < jml2> geophertz, that simple :) 22:43 < geophertz> jml2 scp 22:43 < twainwek> scp, not cp 22:43 < geophertz> man scp 22:43 < twainwek> scp copies, rsync syncs 22:43 < jml2> geophertz, and + many more things for rsync 22:43 < jml2> oops 22:43 < jml2> hahah oops my bad 22:44 < jml2> geophertz, well they both can work under ssh, but rsync is feature-rich for mirroring.. 22:44 < jml2> geophertz, scp wasn't built for mirroring in mind.. 22:44 < geophertz> what do you mean my mirroring 22:44 < geophertz> ? 22:45 < jml2> geophertz, copying directory trees... 22:45 < geophertz> I still don't get it 22:45 < geophertz> :( 22:45 < jml2> geophertz, you don't know what a directory tree is? 22:45 < geophertz> but you can do scp -r or -R, I don't know what argument is needed 22:45 < jml2> geophertz, I think you should stick with scp :) 22:45 < jml2> geophertz, and cp -R is supported too :) 22:46 < geophertz> *-r 22:46 < geophertz> checked man 22:46 < geophertz> ok 22:46 < twainwek> geophertz: you have a directory containing 10GB file and 2 KB file. You can scp the whole directory and tansfer 10GB + 2KB, or rsync the directory and avoid copying the 10GB file if it hasn't changed 22:46 < NGC3982> rsync! 22:46 < geophertz> and what do you think of owncloud 22:47 < geophertz> ? 22:47 < squirrel> is there something like uwp apps or android apps on linux? that is, containerized apps that have to ask for permissions to do stuff 22:47 < geophertz> Is it very heavy 22:47 < geophertz> ? 22:47 < jml2> geophertz, but the "ssh+sftp" doesn't have specifics "limitations on what you can copy. Can you do directory-tree comparisons between local and remove with "scp" ? 22:47 < jml2> geophertz, scp is not tailored/focused on "directory trees". 22:47 < twainwek> geophertz: for your usecase you probably want something like syncthing, not owncloud 22:47 < jml2> geophertz, it's only interested in copying the file and that's it. rsync can do comparisons, resumings, etc... 22:47 < geophertz> ok 22:48 < jml2> geophertz, rsync is more advanced for more structural/backup/snapshot things.. scp is not a tool for this.. 22:48 < geophertz> ok 22:49 < jml2> if you'r edoing a 1-shot, and scp gets disconnected, well then how are you going to pick up from where you left? that's a problem, so rsync is better for the job in this.. 22:51 < AbleBacon> i did that on the dev unit i'm using, MrElendig. i got tired of opening it up to get to the SD card so i just went into the shop, got a hacksaw, and cut out a hole near where the card goes 22:51 < AbleBacon> this unit is The Chosen Unit and nobody is allowed to open it because it's been certified or something 22:51 < jml2> AbleBacon, when you take out a saw then you know you are definitely hacking 22:51 < jml2> AbleBacon, ! 22:52 < MrElendig> yet another reason for having a test box 22:52 < jml2> AbleBacon, you're a real hacker 22:52 < AbleBacon> ehehehh 22:53 < AbleBacon> they know to expect anything they give to me to come back with all kinds of holes and mods, so i don't know why they made me responsible for this thing... 22:55 < sarthor> HI, How to check what tftp server assigned by dhcpd server, my client is linux mint. 22:55 < sarthor> ifconfig shows only ip address and subnet stuff. how to check my tftp server. 22:58 < jml2> sarthor, lol 22:58 < MrElendig> sidenote: ifconfig was deprecated over a decade ago 22:58 < jml2> sarthor, tftp is a separate daemon project, it would not be part of any dhcpd.. 22:58 < hipp> sarthor> try nmap? 22:59 < jml2> sarthor, maybe dnsmasq <<< because it is an exception.. 22:59 < jml2> sarthor, iirc with dnsmasq it would.. but I don't think with dhpcd... 22:59 < Evidlo> sitenote would make a good nick 22:59 < Evidlo> sidenote* 22:59 < jml2> sarthor, "dnsmasq is a lightweight DNS, TFTP, PXE, router advertisement and DHCP server." 23:00 < sarthor> jml2: hipp how to check if my linux box have tftp server assigned or not? like dhcp assigned IP address, NTP server, GW etc. 23:00 < jml2> sarthor, oh it does -> https://linux.die.net/man/8/dhcpd ... I could swear there must be some other implementations elsewhere.. 23:00 * jml2 slaps his forehead 23:01 < jml2> sarthor, oh yeah "BOOTP" things.. 23:01 < jml2> sarthor, you're doing bootp 23:01 < jml2> sarthor, there's an example on that link 23:01 < jml2> sarthor, you could probably even using netcat to test tftp because it's a simple protocol 23:01 < noway96> TJ, awesome! thank you ! 23:02 < meyou> one might even call it...trivial 23:02 < sarthor> actually I configure my dhcp-server on dd-wrt to assign ntp server on network. Now I want to test if it is working. I ahve linux mint running on my laptop. Now ho to check if the dd-wrt assinging ntp server or not. 23:02 < sarthor> check in that linke jml2 23:02 < sarthor> checking...* 23:02 < jml2> sarthor, the "tftp" client command (package tftp) should suffice for a tftp pull request 23:03 < permalink> hi. i have some env vars in the .bashrc of root . and i want to create a init script to start some services at boot. and in this script i used 23:03 < jml2> sarthor, for every "protocol standard" there is always gunna be an available client counterpart.. 23:03 < permalink> reference to one of these env vars . will it work or i will get an error ? 23:03 < jml2> sarthor, to test ntp, you use an ntp client.. 23:04 < uplime> permalink: you'll probably get an error 23:04 < uplime> but it depends on the init system 23:04 < hipp> sarthor> nmap the server ip ... if tftp is listening it will be listed 23:04 < uplime> bashrc's are only referenced during a login shell, and init scripts wouldn't invoke a login shell 23:04 < jml2> hipp, I think he wants to see if he can pull a file.. 23:04 < permalink> uplime it's systemd 23:04 < permalink> debian stretch 23:05 < uplime> you could have a third file with those variable(s) and dot that file in both the init script and the bashrc 23:05 < sarthor> jml2: my tftp server is running.. I can connect to the server via tfpt 192.168.xx.xx, but I want to check if the dhcp is assigning this automatically or not. hipp jml2 23:05 < jml2> omg I'm baffling myself... 23:06 < jml2> sarthor, it's confusing because "dnsmasq" supports tftp, but dhcpd as I initially believe does not.. I believe I was initially correct. 23:06 < sarthor> when we do ipconfig /all in windows. so we can see all the details of IP config, like ntp server, dhcp , dns wins.. and even tfpt.. so how can check that here in linux. 23:06 < jml2> sarthor, if you want a tftp service you'll need to provide it. And it doesn't look like dhcpd does.. 23:06 < jml2> sarthor, the example is not a "tftp directive" .. and is a bad example on the dhcpd manpage.. 23:07 < sarthor> Yea. dnsmasq 23:07 < jml2> sarthor, however dnsmasq does... or you can use anything else that is an "tftp server".. 23:07 < permalink> uplime what if i modify the start command in my script from this : $GOPATH/bin/my-service -opt1 arg1 -opt2 arg2 23:07 < jml2> sarthor, /etc/dnsmasq.conf is very well commented, you'll definitely see tftp in it somewhere.. 23:07 < sarthor> now to check if that config of dnsmasq is working 23:08 < permalink> to this: bash $GOPATH/bin/my-service -opt1 arg1 -opt2 arg2 23:08 < MrElendig> permalink: use full path 23:08 < uplime> permalink: that means nothing to me without context, but it doesn't matter how you modify the init file. chances are your bashrc isn't going to be referenced, (and it shouldn't be anyways) 23:08 < jml2> sarthor, "You will only need 23:08 < jml2> # this is you want to boot machines over the network and you will need 23:08 < jml2> *# a TFTP server; either dnsmasq's built in TFTP server or an 23:08 < jml2> *# external one." 23:08 < jml2> sarthor, so dnsmasq has a "built-in" tftp server... 23:08 < uplime> and just invoking bash doesn't necessarily invoke a login shell 23:09 < uplime> just define the variable in the init script 23:09 < MrElendig> systemd units are not bash scripts, they do not read the roots .bashrc 23:09 < jml2> sarthor, if you use dnsmasq's built-in tftp, then don't use any other one.. 23:09 < uplime> or do what I first suggested 23:09 < jml2> sarthor, ("dnsmasq's built-in tftp server") 23:09 < sarthor> jml2: tftp-server is running on freepbx machine. which 192.168.10.50 23:09 < sarthor> while my router is on 192.168.10.1 23:10 < sarthor> the router have dnsmasq service running. 23:10 < sky887_> :))) 23:10 < jml2> sarthor, only you could set it up... because this can get complicating really fast :) 23:10 < jml2> sarthor, too many variables for me.. but I hope you're at least in the right direction 23:11 < sarthor> So I want to dnsmasq tell to client that tfpt server is 192.168.10.50, and I configure router for that. Now how to check on my linux machine if that config is working. 23:11 < jml2> ^ anyone can help sarthor ? 23:11 < jml2> be my guest.. 23:11 * jml2 has to go eat supper yum yum 23:12 < sarthor> jml2: thanks. I believe, I am not able to reach, what you want to tell me.. re reading. 23:12 < jml2> sarthor, dnsmasq is very very flexible... but it is very well commented in its .conf file.. 23:13 * jml2 bb 23:22 < permalink> uplime so basically is i want to start this service at init , i must load all the env it needs in my init script 23:27 < texla> Fedora 27>gnome..Is there a way to resize the icons in the favorite toolbar on the desktop? 23:28 < J-JITO> Hi guys 23:28 < fujisan> why is linux ui so bad? 23:28 < J-JITO> Any idea about nodejs apps installation recommendations ? 23:28 < MrElendig> because of trolls like you 23:28 < fujisan> not all at once plz 23:28 < fujisan> lol 23:28 < MrElendig> J-JITO: put node in a container 23:28 < J-JITO> I’m installing any app using: npm install -g 23:28 < IlIlIIlIll> fujisan: how is it bad? 23:29 < J-JITO> What is the consequences installing packages globally using the -g option ? 23:29 < fujisan> yeah good question i guess it could be better 23:29 < MrElendig> J-JITO: https://github.com/npm/npm/issues/19883 23:30 < Bunk> hi 23:30 < J-JITO> I know that issue 23:30 < ASL`AOL> linux has a UI? 23:30 < fujisan> i 'll rephrase my statement: why is linux ui not considered aesthetically pleasing relative to mac os 23:30 < J-JITO> Concern version 5.6.3 23:30 < MrElendig> fujisan: only you claim it isn't 23:30 < fujisan> yeah agreed it is subjective 23:31 < fujisan> i give up 23:31 < ASL`AOL> fujisan: please take time to research the plethora of desktop environments and window managers available 23:31 < ASL`AOL> including ones which imitate the look and feel of mac, if that is your goal and measure of pleasure 23:31 < fujisan> i will ask Aza Raskin if he will do ui for linux 23:31 < ASL`AOL> linux is not a UI, it is a kernel 23:31 < fujisan> i know him from mozilla 23:31 < hipp> fujisan> which ui? ... i am using plasma it is very customizable with lots of pretty ... much more usable than windoze or osx 23:32 < fujisan> i will come back tomorrow with some better arguments 23:32 < ||JD||> lol plasma is anything but usable 23:33 < ||JD||> bring some whores too 23:33 < fujisan> :( 23:33 < Acheron> fujisan, don't bother, we don't care what you think about Linux 23:33 < ASL`AOL> xD 23:34 < fujisan> :'( 23:34 < jml2> fujisan, it's year of the Linux Desktop 2018 23:34 < fujisan> rms.sexy ||JD|| 23:34 < IlIlIIlIll> let me know what you come up with fujisan, can't fix something until we can identify what needs fixin 23:34 < jml2> fujisan, but its a better desktop year... 23:34 < jml2> fujisan, rms is your type 23:34 < fujisan> lol 23:34 < jml2> fujisan, you're his opensource lover 23:34 < ASL`AOL> mr dick stallman 23:35 < fujisan> im his GNU disciple 23:35 < J-JITO> MrElendig: if I want to install a package i should use then npm install 23:35 < ASL`AOL> RMS/dick stallman 23:35 < jml2> fujisan, he doesn't like you calling linux with GNU/ in front of it 23:35 < jml2> fujisan, RMS will never respect Linux as Linux but only as GNU or GNU/Linux 23:35 < ASL`AOL> i have a lot of admiration for rms though in all fairness, he is a great advocate 23:35 < fujisan> GNU\colossus: then 23:35 < J-JITO> MrElendig: but it install it in my home directory 23:36 < ASL`AOL> has anyone seen that video of rms eating his crusty hardened foot skin 23:36 < jml2> fujisan, what distro are you using? 23:36 < ASL`AOL> pure inspiration 23:36 < jml2> fujisan, do you always pop in here like this? 23:36 < J-JITO> MrElendig: How can I change that? I want to specify a default directory 23:36 < fujisan> windows 10 with the linux subsystem 23:36 < jml2> fujisan, check out linux -> virtualbox.org and tell me how great it is 23:36 < lopta> I can understand Stallman being upset about the success of Linux coopting GNU but ...I don't know, he doesn't seem to be handling that at all well. 23:36 < jml2> fujisan, then you have a case! 23:37 < fujisan> i also run mac os x 23:37 < fujisan> and remix os 23:37 < fujisan> android 23:37 < jml2> fujisan, no you dont 23:37 < fujisan> not now 23:37 < jml2> fujisan, mac os x is no longer around :) 23:37 < jml2> fujisan, it's now called "macOS" :p 23:37 < fujisan> i still run mac osx 23:37 < jml2> fujisan, geez you even fail at that! XD 23:38 < jml2> fujisan, total macnoob! 23:38 < fujisan> my mac cant run mac os :( 23:38 < jml2> like totally dude! 23:38 < fujisan> :( 23:38 < jml2> LOL 23:38 < ||JD||> honestly I must agree with this guy, is there is something better in MS OSs than in unixes that's the UI, I don't know any that can render as well as Aero 23:38 < jml2> fujisan, RMS lovah!! 23:38 < fujisan> jonny ive should make linux ui 23:38 < meyou> turns out having billions in the bank to hire developers is handy 23:39 < IlIlIIlIll> johnny five?* 23:39 < lopta> fujisan: I'd prefer MacOS X if it looked like System 7 on top of Darwin. 23:39 < jml2> fujisan, macos and linux can co-exist easily-- I've done dual-boots with macs actually 23:39 < fujisan> does linux have scrum subroutines and lean agile protocols for daemons? 23:39 < jml2> fujisan, its easy peasy. 23:39 < mutante> Enlightenment DR17 23:40 < fujisan> jml2: ye i know 23:40 < jml2> just use the disk utility with macos installer, resize hfs and linux is ready to be installed.. 23:40 < jml2> then a little refind, and pretty much that's all there is.. 23:40 < jml2> (refind the uefi project kit) 23:41 < fujisan> i like every os but sortix is really superior to every os just ask sortie 23:41 < jml2> I think refind is even optional iirc... 23:41 < fujisan> haiku isnt bad either 23:41 < jml2> haiku is beos -- who uses that? you? 23:41 < lopta> Never heard of sortix 23:42 < lopta> Hey, remember OpenLook? That was pretty. Weird but pretty. 23:42 < hipp> dont need refind ... macos bootloader will kick off to grub with option boot 23:42 < fujisan> jml2: one of the best coders in the world develops for haiku 23:42 < fujisan> the new bill gates 23:42 < MrElendig> complains about how linux has no pretty UI, claims haiku looks good 23:42 < jml2> b.g was a total cheat who stole ideas from everybody else actually.. 23:42 < MrElendig> #justtrollthings 23:43 < jml2> he was one luck sob.. 23:43 < jml2> fujisan, sounds like you never heard of P.Alto's original Xerox machine before X11... 23:43 < fujisan> lol MrElendig it 's all subjective 23:44 < lopta> jml2: Alt? 23:44 < jml2> fujisan, that's where S.Jobs and B.Gates stole the idea of a gui. 23:44 < lopta> Alto* 23:44 < fujisan> i have jml2 and also smalltalk and Alan Kay and the Xanadu filesystem designed by infamous genius Ted Nelson 23:44 < lopta> Stupid lag is stupid. 23:45 < fujisan> are there any good audiobooks about linux distros? 23:45 < lopta> I forget the name of the other one. 23:45 < fujisan> i will install linux tomorrow 23:45 * jml2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Alto 23:45 < jml2> audio books, you mean like bedtime story? 23:45 < lopta> fujisan: Which distro will you try? 23:45 < jml2> fujisan, i can tell you a story about a penguin :)) 23:45 < jml2> LOL 23:45 < lopta> jml2: What was the predecessor to Alto? 23:45 < fujisan> ubuntu anything else is too hard for me 23:46 < lopta> fujisan: Good luck. I hope it works well for you. 23:46 < jml2> fujisan, once upon a time a penguin named triceratux was snooping around for a distribution and all of a sudden.. 23:46 < jml2> fujisan, blamo, a 4-eyed bill gates appeared right before him... 23:46 < mutante> fujisan: apt-get install ; man man | flite 23:46 < jml2> :)) 23:46 < mutante> fujisan: apt-get install flite ; man man | flite 23:46 < fujisan> i love the the debian fable about ubuntu crybabies it's in their channel 23:47 < jml2> fujisan, ah the toy story.. 23:47 < jml2> fujisan, such a legacy 23:47 < lopta> Sadly I'm using an IRC client that only lets me be in one channel. 23:47 < fujisan> i actually want to try redstar os 23:47 < lopta> fujisan: Is that Chinese? 23:47 < jml2> fujisan, toy story for debian, you have to watch the movie and like it if you want to be considered a true debianer 23:47 < fujisan> north korean 23:47 < lopta> That was going to be my next guess. 23:48 < mutante> is redstar a fork of redhat or not related at all? 23:48 < fujisan> lol 23:48 < jml2> mutante, an old fork of kde3.x iirc.. 23:48 < jml2> mutante, therte's pictures and videos of it.. 23:48 < fujisan> try it in a vm 23:48 < mutante> nowadays redhat also wouldnt pick that name anymore :p 23:48 < fujisan> see what it does 23:48 < jml2> fujisan, sshh :) 23:48 < jml2> fujisan, use it on a native machine! 23:48 < kazdax> hey are any of you guys programmers ? 23:48 < fujisan> noway96: 23:48 < kazdax> I know LFS is like a project that would keep me awake and excited 23:48 < Acheron> Cinnamon is worth a try4 23:49 < jml2> fujisan, and K.J Yoooonn will be knocking on your door! 23:49 < Claudio> Hello ^^ 23:49 < Claudio> I need a small information. 23:49 < kazdax> so with LFS ill learn the ins and out of a linux OS 23:49 < lopta> kazdax: Sort of. 23:49 < Claudio> Who can tell me a good Brower with Java support? :) 23:49 < degva> hi all, I'm doing an rsync of one very big file from one server to another, the problem is that I see that there's a new hidden file that is being copied over again. Is it possible to rsync only the deltas of the file instead of copying over again the whole file? 23:49 < kazdax> inlucding how the kernel works witth he applications 23:49 < kazdax> ? 23:49 < jml2> Claudio, none 23:49 < Claudio> Now i use Firefox ^^ 23:49 < jml2> Claudio, LOL 23:49 < fujisan> if they bring me food that's fine i never had north korean take out 23:49 < kazdax> north korean :D 23:49 < jml2> Claudio, all hte webbrowsers disable it... now it is not even possible to have it with chrome.. 23:50 < Claudio> jml2, hello :S 23:50 < kazdax> i got the Linux programming interface 23:50 < kazdax> the book ...which i am hoping to learn about system programming of linux 23:50 < jml2> Claudio, its extinct, just as flash will be extinct by the end of 2020 (adobe's 2017 announcement) 23:50 < fujisan> is it hard to learn how to code on linux? 23:50 < kazdax> my aim is to use linux and a programming langauige like C to do what ever i think is possible with a linuix 23:50 < mutante> degva: eh.. that should be default normally i think 23:50 < Claudio> kazdax, a good "learn" = pratice 23:50 < kazdax> fujisan i think it might be more exciting than learning ona windows 23:50 < fujisan> kazdax: good luck 23:50 < jml2> fujisan, you said you're gunna finally install linux, what's stopping you from install linux in virtualbox? 23:51 < Claudio> jml2, hmm, i have a VPN connection and need Java for run. 23:51 < MrElendig> kazdax: tip: learn rust and python 23:51 < mutante> degva: i mean, the man page says "It is famous for its delta-transfer algorithm.." etc 23:51 < kazdax> yes python is on the list 23:51 < lopta> jml2: Not every computer can run VirtualBox 23:51 < Claudio> jml2, there is no application for it? 23:51 < kazdax> id ont know about rust 23:51 < fujisan> jml2: my system is too slow will run it natively 23:51 < jml2> Claudio, you mean "JRE" ? As long as you're not asking about "BROWSER APPLETS" 23:51 < degva> mutante: that's right, but for some reason, it's copying the whole file again. 23:51 < jml2> Claudio, of course JAVA is available, but not in webbrowser applet form.. 23:52 < fujisan> it's very old 23:52 < MrElendig> icedtea is still around, but you should not use it 23:52 < lopta> I am very old. 23:52 < fujisan> almost 8 yrs 23:52 < jml2> Claudio, there's java servers and applications in java -- and they use a java runtime environment.. 23:52 < kazdax> by the way my brother got the new Dead Rising game 23:52 < jml2> Claudio, but not your question as "what browser" which have dropped java-applets.. 23:52 < kazdax> Dead rising 4 23:52 < degva> mutante: say, during the sync, a .verybigfile.csv.te2JcY is created that I guess replaces the verybigfile.csv that's there 23:52 < MrElendig> kazdax: so your brother have bad taste, or he subs to humble 23:52 < kazdax> haha yea ..you got me 23:52 < kazdax> its humble 23:53 < kazdax> is it not a good game..man i wish it was like the old ones 23:53 < kazdax> no timer 23:53 < kazdax> and just do what ever you like 23:53 < kazdax> remember that time when postal came out 23:53 < Claudio> jml2, correct. The wordkey is Java Applet 23:53 < kazdax> it was so hillarious and fun to play 23:53 < kazdax> carmagedon another one 23:53 < kazdax> just silly voilence 23:53 < jml2> anyone who wants to have fun programming should check out UE4 .. it is free and is a Visual Programmable interface for graphics/(and ahem of course gaming :P) 23:54 < MrElendig> the old ones weren't good either 23:54 < jml2> fun machinima things... 23:54 < ASL`AOL> what the hell is Colloquy for iPod touch 23:54 < jml2> import blender, and do all kinds of nice animations with it.. 23:54 < kazdax> machinima is the japanese company ? 23:54 < MrElendig> an axe doesn't magically break just because you hit some fleshy things with it 3 times 23:54 * jml2 "compiling UE4 IS A BEAST" 23:54 < kazdax> they use linux ? 23:54 < jml2> kazdax, ? 23:54 < jml2> kazdax, no it means creating movie scenes using graphics.. 23:54 < jml2> kazdax, ue4 supports this mode.. 23:54 < kazdax> ahh 23:55 < kazdax> i always wanted to do animations 23:55 < kazdax> i thought tho linux might be lacking behind abit 23:55 < jml2> kazdax, the compiling of UE4 is very demanding.. it'll be like 10 gigs of data to work with.. 23:55 < jml2> kazdax, you need a modern machine to use it.. 23:55 < kazdax> yea 23:55 < kazdax> it wont work on this one 23:55 < jml2> kazdax, and it is actually free to download and use git.. 23:55 < kazdax> its using a 100 dollar CPU 23:55 < kazdax> and a 100 dollar graphic card 23:56 < jml2> lots of dependencies, and here i have it running on my debian system.. 23:56 < kazdax> is UE4 like maya and 3d max ? 23:56 < jml2> it runs very nicely.. 23:56 < jml2> one doesn't have to make games necessarily with it, but animations as well... 23:56 < mutante> degva: hmm.. i understand.. i also wonder. because "The algorithm works best when the files are similar, but will also function correctly and reasonably efficiently when the files are quite different. " 23:56 < kazdax> ahh i see 23:56 < jml2> kazdax, yeah you get the concept.. 23:56 < kazdax> are there alot of games for linux OS ? 23:56 < jml2> kazdax, on steam? yeah.. of course.. 23:56 < kazdax> yea 23:56 < kazdax> o cool 23:56 < lopta> kazdax: There are some. Depends what you're looking for. 23:57 < kazdax> but major games ave been ported to linux 23:57 < jml2> kazdax, a new tombraider was just released for linux about a week ago -- I purchased it :p 23:57 < kazdax> doom 3 23:57 < kazdax> GTA' 23:57 < kazdax> Call of duty 23:57 < kazdax> to name a few 23:57 < kazdax> ? 23:57 < MrElendig> kazdax: https://store.steampowered.com/search/?category1=998&os=linux&specials=1 23:57 < lopta> xfreecell ;-) 23:57 < jml2> kazdax, my graphic card needs to be upgraded in order to play it however.. it's only 1 gig vram XD 23:57 < MrElendig> er.. 23:57 < lopta> Alright. I'm off home, anyway. 23:57 < jml2> kazdax, but I can at least run the first half of the level hahaa 23:58 < MrElendig> https://store.steampowered.com/search/?category1=998&os=linux there you go 23:58 < jml2> i'm not much into gaming.. 23:58 < MrElendig> + a load that are not on steam 23:58 < jml2> it's nice to play a game once in a while at the end of the week :)) 23:58 < MrElendig> 4811 games on steam that claims they run on gnu/linux 23:58 < kazdax> i like the indie games 23:59 < MrElendig> vs 23570 for all operating systems 23:59 < MrElendig> not that bad 23:59 < jml2> MrElendig, do you happen to have a steam controller? the configuration "wizard" there is especially not for the novice... it is very distinct indeed. 23:59 < kazdax> MRElang i am looking at the list and some of the games are good ones that i have heard for 23:59 < kazdax> i have the steam box but not the controller 23:59 < MrElendig> jml2: valve won't sell me one 23:59 < dviola> MrElendig: that's more games than I have time to play 23:59 < jml2> MrElendig, i bought a controller when it came out and I haven't even fully used it yet LOL 23:59 < MrElendig> jml2: for some silly reason they don't sell it to norway, but they do to sweden etc 23:59 < kazdax> is it worth it jml2 --- Log closed Sat Apr 28 00:00:00 2018