--- Log opened Mon May 07 00:00:11 2018
00:05 < mawk> I'm sick
00:05 < mawk> someone please send me pain killers by helicopter
00:08 < n-iCe> mawk: what's wrong
00:08 < mawk> I ate something not fresh
00:08 < n-iCe> dammit
00:09 < n-iCe> poisoning
00:13 < tymczenko> guys, how can I debug a command listed in `crontab` ? my script works if I run it from shell, but it gives nothing when I schedule it :(
00:14 < meingtsla> "gives nothing"?
00:14 < tymczenko> I tried to put ` > $HOME/log 2>$1 ` at the end of a command, but it doesn't give any output in that file. So I can't even debug it
00:14 < tymczenko> well, there's no result of running the command listed in `crontab -e`
00:15 < meingtsla> Hm OK. What are you trying to do with "2>$1"?
00:15 < meingtsla> What is $1, even?
00:16 < tymczenko> oh, it should be &1
00:16 < Sitri> Which user's crontab is the script running in?
00:17 < SlashLife> tymczenko: Not sure about Linux, but from FreeBSD I'm used to getting cronjob output by mail to root.
00:18 < tymczenko> Sitri, I have only one user besides the root
00:18 < SlashLife> And I'd be quite careful about variables set for cronjobs.
00:18 < tymczenko> SlashLife, it actually MAKES a file `log` in my home folder. But it's empty
00:19 < SlashLife> Okay, then assuming it has the correct value is probably correct. :)
00:19 < stevendale> Hi
00:19 < tymczenko> oh, no. sorry it's not empty anymore. it was "2>$1" instead of "2>&1". so I had an empty file. Sorry, guys for bothering. Now I see the error output
00:19 < SlashLife> Though the file gets created by the shell redirecting the output ... could it be that the program doesn't even get to start?
00:20 < SlashLife> Great. o/
00:28 < tymczenko> meingtsla, thanks for pointing on my mistake, everything works now. Sometimes one just needs somebody to ask a question to find the solution to one's problem :)
00:36 < granttrec> is it possible to replace ; with {} on a new line using sed without using a buffer?
00:36 < granttrec> eg :
00:36 < granttrec> gives {
00:36 < granttrec>          }
00:37 < phinxy> I accidentally ran `sudo chown -R me:me /` for a microsecond.
00:37 < phinxy> / instead of .
00:38 < kalinite> !seen mekely
00:39 < phinxy> I was just about to make a backup any day now
00:39 < Azrael_-> what backup software can you suggest for backup for windows and linux?
00:39 < phinxy> both??
00:41 < Azrael_-> i don't want to use different backup technologies for linux and windows. so i hope for one which is good for either of them
00:41 < granttrec> also what is a good way to dump text from clipboard into a file
00:42 < Spookan> Azrael_-: Are you gonna backup the whole drive or just some files/folders?
00:43 < Azrael_-> Spookan: currently my main target will be files/folders. but i still hope, one day i have enough storage available to do the whole drive (and also do the backup while windows is running)
00:45 < Spookan> Azrael_-: Well, for folders/files i compress it with *.7z and upload to my mega drive, you can get 50gb free there. But i only use Linux/MacOS, but it shouldn't be any problem with Windows.
00:47 < Azrael_-> from a nice backup solution i expect multiple versions in time (mostly even for each file) and deduplication if nothing has changed. the easiest option is rsnapshot but i'd probably go for bacula for complexer tasks. but here the windows-support isn't that great. your task is mostly manual and i want constant backups
00:59 < jim> Azrael_-, while it's not a backup program, sounds like you're describing the features of git
01:01 < Azrael_-> jim: yeah, kinda
01:02 < kope> is there a way to get access to the root in any machine ?
01:03 < revel> kope: cd /
01:04 < kope> i mean root user
01:04 < revel> ANY machine? No.
01:05 < kope> revel, can i pm you?
01:05 < revel> Just ask whatever you want to ask here.
01:06 < kope> okay , if you play a CTF with a machine , what is the tricks to get the root user access?
01:07 < revel> I don't think there'd be much of a point to those if there was a simple global answer to that.
01:08 < kope> revel, about you , what tricks you will try first thing
01:08 < revel> I've never done CTF, so, can't say.
01:08 < mgolisch> capture the flag?
01:09 < Spookan> Hehe!
01:18 < j0seph> hello all
01:18 < j0seph> how goes it
01:21 < n-iCe> good
01:21 < j0seph> nice nice
01:42 < wizzi> hello, Any useful vpn ?
01:42 < wizzi> free vpn x)
01:54 < rypervenche> wizzi: Nothing in this world is free.
01:57 < msiism> i just accidentally ran "rsync -av --delete $HOME ." when my pwd was $HOME (and not the backup directory on a removable drive). does this generally break anything?
02:00 < solidfox> msiism, should be fine
02:01 < msiism> solidfox: ok, thanks. i was hoping so.
02:01 < rypervenche> msiism: But good advice to not use variables like that, because it could be empty and bad things happen that way.
02:01 < rypervenche> msiism: Or better yet, run your rsync with -n first (--dry-run)
02:02 < msiism> rypervenche: i always do that to prevent unwanted actions. but stupidity was stronger this time.
02:16 < frwlkkaw> hello
02:17 < wizzi> rypervenche: but there is people using it free
02:17 < Peyam> someone told me to use laptop mode
02:17 < Peyam> idk who it was
02:17 < Peyam> but thank you it worked like a charm
02:17 < frwlkkaw> i'm trying to set static ips on ubunto but i still cant get network access
02:18 < Peyam> i just had to slic eof pizza and went to shitroom like 3 times
02:19 < frwlkkaw> why the network interface is called enp0s3 now?
02:19 < wizzi> rypervenche: is there ways to hide my ip ?
02:21 < bls> frwlkkaw: https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/
02:21 < bls> wizzi: on freenode?
02:22 < frwlkkaw> bls: can you help me with this network issue??
02:22 < frwlkkaw> bls: i did the same configuration on mint and worked but now on ubunto doesnt want to work
02:22 < bls> I have no idea
02:23 < wizzi> bls: no..
02:23 < wizzi> bls: any idea to do it ?
02:23 < frwlkkaw> bls: i changed the /etc/network/interface file to static and when i check my ip's they are correct i dont understand
02:23 < wizzi> or nothing is free ?
02:23 < bls> wizzi: it's not possible
02:24 < wizzi> bls: oh okay
02:24 < bls> and doing so is relatively pointless
02:24 < frwlkkaw> bls: on /etc/resolv.conf why the nameserver is always changing to something else when i reboot?
02:25 < jml2> frwlkkaw, because you're likely not using ifupdown, but rather NM
02:25 < jml2> LOL
02:25 < frwlkkaw> jml2: ok tell me how to do it
02:25 < bls> frwlkkaw: does your system have network manager? if so, it might be ignoring changes you've made that weren't made through it
02:25 < frwlkkaw> bls: i removed
02:26 < frwlkkaw> ubunto did not bring the ifconfig that i loved i dont know how to use ip very well
02:26 < jml2> never heard of ubunto, but i heard of ubuntu
02:27 < bls> manually making config changes with ifconfig/ip should only be a one-off/experiment. you'll need to use the tools the distro intends to permanently configure things
02:27 < frwlkkaw> thats helpfull
02:28 < frwlkkaw> bls: yes but i changed the interface file
02:28 < frwlkkaw> bls: resolve.conf is always changing maybe thats why
02:28 < bindi> ubuntu doesnt use resolv.conf for dns, regardless of if networkmanager is used or not
02:29 < bindi> #     DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE BY HAND -- YOUR CHANGES WILL BE OVERWRITTEN
02:29 < bindi> it even says that :)
02:29 < jml2> frwlkkaw, yeah what does the two top lines say at the top of resolv.conf ?
02:29 < bindi> well it does use it, but it's a dynamic file
02:29 < jml2> frwlkkaw, that'll tell you possibly what created/generated it
02:29 < bug> wizzi, you can hide your ip address with tor, a vpn, a bouncer (on irc), or even just a proxy. https://torproject.org
02:29 < frwlkkaw> bindi: where can i set it?
02:29 < snugger> How many of you use eww?
02:30 < jml2> snugger, what's eww? that youuu?
02:30 < snugger> jml2: who doesn't know what eww is
02:30 < jml2> ewwww its snugger!!!!
02:30 < jml2> lol
02:30 < snugger> excuse me mods
02:30 < snugger> someone is bullying me
02:30 < snugger> i am very hurt
02:31 < jml2> you
02:31 < snugger> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eww_(web_browser)
02:32 < Namll> does it matter if i choose vmware or virtualbox?
02:32 < frwlkkaw> jml2: i just did sudo systemd-resolve --set-dns=10.152.152.10 --interface=enp0s3 doesnt work -.-
02:33 < jml2> frwlkkaw, what does that have anything to do with /etc/network/interfaces ?
02:33 < jml2> frwlkkaw, and you didnt answer my orgiinal question
02:34 < jml2> Namll, i think yeah it does, one is opensource/free the other isn't
02:34 < frwlkkaw> jml2: i removed the networkmanager i follow this guide https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Ubuntu
02:34 < jml2> Namll, vbox runs very well, i see why you shouldn't use it
02:34 < jml2> Namll, (you should be using vbox)
02:35 < jiffe> something is writing a new file every 5 minutes, is there a way for me to determine what process/binary is doing that?
02:35 < frwlkkaw> jml2: and it just set's the ip's if i put allow-hotplug on interface file dont know why
02:35 < Namll> jml2: thanks for input, ill go with virtual box first.
02:35 < jml2> frwlkkaw, yuo still didnt answer my question
02:35 < frwlkkaw> jml2: what was the question?
02:35 < jml2> frwlkkaw, what are the top lines of /etc/resolv.conf ?
02:35 < bls> jiffe: you can try to set up an inotify watch
02:36 < frwlkkaw> jml2: # This file is managed by man:systemd-resolved(8). Do not edit.
02:36 < frwlkkaw> jml2: dont troll me
02:36 < jml2> frwlkkaw, ok so systemd-resolved
02:36 < jml2> frwlkkaw, btw it was bindi who quoted something different.
02:36 < jml2> frwlkkaw, i dont see how i am trolling by requesting you answer my question!
02:36 < frwlkkaw> jml2: ok
02:37 < jml2> frwlkkaw, rm /etc/resolv.conf <enteR>
02:37 < jml2> frwlkkaw, touch /etc/resolv.conf <enter>
02:37 < frwlkkaw> jml2: but for the network to work i just need the interface file correct right?
02:37 < jml2> frwlkkaw, that should fix it
02:37 < jml2> frwlkkaw, ifdown <interface>; ifup interface<enter>
02:37 < jml2> frwlkkaw, before ifup, you can set your static nameservers in /etc/resolv.conf
02:37 < Raed> frwlkkaw: Are you sure it has an address? if you run ip addr does it show a valid ip address?
02:38 < jml2> frwlkkaw, resolv.conf is a symlink to systemd-resolved's resolv.conf -- systemd-resolved is triggered -- but you can avoid it by removing the symlink
02:39 < cmj> if you use ubuntu it uses network manager or something. nmcli and check for dns. it doesn't use resolve.conf (or resolvconf pkg)
02:39 < frwlkkaw> i cant ping my gateway
02:39 < Raed> frwlkkaw: Ok, but does the interface have an address? Lol
02:40 < cmj> ip r s
02:40 < frwlkkaw> Raed: https://paste.linux.community/view/e2f8c8e7
02:40 < frwlkkaw> it looks like the address is good
02:41 < cmj> check your route/gateway
02:41 < Raed> frwlkkaw: How about the routing? "ip route"
02:41 < cmj> yeah i just… ok
02:41 < jml2> it's an odd netmask
02:41 < jml2> ,/18
02:41 < frwlkkaw> yes
02:42 < jml2> frwlkkaw, well did you do the rm, and touch commands i gave you?
02:42 < frwlkkaw> Raed: https://paste.linux.community/view/d5580c29
02:42 < frwlkkaw> jml2: yes
02:42 < jml2> frwlkkaw, and what does /etc/network/interfaces have?
02:43 < Raed> frwlkkaw: And that address does match the gateway address, right?
02:43 < frwlkkaw> jml2: https://paste.linux.community/view/ed50ec2a
02:44 < frwlkkaw> Raed: yes
02:44 < Raed> frwlkkaw: try "systemctl restart networking"
02:44 < frwlkkaw> this configuration is working on linux mint
02:44 < jml2> you should have "auto enp0s3" -- if your nic is not autostarted, use this instead..
02:45 < jml2> (or add it before iface enps03)
02:46 < triceratux> https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/linux/ModernNetworkNameIssue
02:46 < Raed> frwlkkaw: Yeah, you are missing an auto statement, add "auto enp0s3" about that iface enp0s3 line
02:47 < Raed> frwlkkaw: Then systemctl restart networking
02:47 < frwlkkaw> ok wait
02:47 < Raed> s/about/above
02:47 < frwlkkaw> what about the hotplug?
02:47 < frwlkkaw> i dont know what it is
02:47 < jml2> its harmless i think you can leave the hotplug in
02:48 < Raed> frwlkkaw: ignore it
02:48 < Raed> frwlkkaw: That just means to start the interface when you plug a cable into it
02:49 < frwlkkaw> still not working
02:49 < Raed> frwlkkaw: What error do you get when you ping the gateway?
02:50 < frwlkkaw> Raed: nothing just doesnt do anything
02:50 < jml2> frwlkkaw, does /etc/resolv.conf stick?
02:50 < Raed> frwlkkaw: And have you checked dmesg to make sure it isnt a driver issue, seeing as it was working on another distro?
02:50 < frwlkkaw> Raed: when i put route isnt suposed to show 10.152.152.0/18 insted of 10.152.128.0/18
02:51 < frwlkkaw> jml2: yes it stick
02:51 < snugger> Why do people use BunsenLabs over CrunchBangPlusPlus?
02:51 < Raed> frwlkkaw: Well, your default gateway matches what you have it configured to so that should be fine as long as the address is right.
02:51 < jml2> frwlkkaw, 10.152.152.10   is defined in your interfaces file
02:51 < snugger> BunsenLabs JUST upgraded to Debian 9 a few days ago
02:52 < snugger> CB++ upgraded almost as soon as debian9 was released
02:52 < frwlkkaw> Raed: its on vbox if i use NAT network it works but not when i use internal network
02:52 < Raed> frwlkkaw: Ah, left out key details lol
02:53 < frwlkkaw> Raed: oh
02:53 < Raed> frwlkkaw: What mode do you have vbox in?
02:53 < frwlkkaw> Raed: what do u mean?
02:54 < Raed> frwlkkaw: Do you have it in bridge mode?
02:54 < frwlkkaw> Raed: Internal Network, i'm trying to connect to the whonix gateway, i follow this guide and doesnt not work https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Ubuntu
02:55 < Raed> frwlkkaw: internal network is a virtual network created by vbox for the other clients to use, you probably want bridge mode
02:55 < jml2> you should check your VBox Network management settings... and see if you can use that network address
02:55 < jml2> a proper network address, also needs a proper netmask
02:55 < frwlkkaw> Raed: no i want internal i'm connecting to other vbox machine
02:55 < Raed> frwlkkaw: Do you have the internal network set up?
02:55 < jml2> dunno if Vbox/NAT uses a forced dhcp-ip for traffic, perhaps static ip's are not permitted..
02:55 < jml2> ^
02:55 < frwlkkaw> Raed: that is right i'm sure it works on other distros
02:56 < frwlkkaw> i am sure the problem is in the ubunto
02:56 < frwlkkaw> ubuntu
02:56 < jml2> it isn't
02:56 < jml2> because you got a dhcp response..
02:56 < jml2> so something gave it earlier dhcp offers
02:56 < frwlkkaw> the gateway doesnt have dhcp server
02:57 < Raed> frwlkkaw: Double check your host network manager and make sure its set up with the right addresses.
02:58 < frwlkkaw> Raed: how?
02:58 < frwlkkaw> ?
02:58 < Raed> frwlkkaw: In vbox under file, host network manager
02:58 < mgolisch> what exactly is your problem?
02:58 < frwlkkaw> i dont know :s
02:58 < jml2> frwlkkaw, you never looked at Vbox network management?
02:59 < frwlkkaw> never
02:59 < Raed> mgolisch: He cant get 2 virtualbox machines talking over a vbox host network
02:59 < frwlkkaw> i didnt have to
02:59 < frwlkkaw> for other distros
02:59 < jml2> frwlkkaw, are you using a direct link-link between vm's ? then you dont have to check the Vbox net management
02:59 < triceratux> frwlkkaw: what version of ubuntu is this ?
02:59 < mgolisch> so it is in the same internal network as the other vm?
02:59 < frwlkkaw> last one
02:59 < jml2> frwlkkaw, but make sure it is a private vm-vm link, and not a NAT link..
02:59 < mgolisch> thats the first thing i would check
02:59 < frwlkkaw> 18.04-desktop-amd64
02:59 < triceratux> ah
03:00 < jml2> ..
03:00 < jml2> oh a "vbox host network"
03:00 < jml2> that could mean anything, depending on which one...
03:00 < jml2> "host-only" ?
03:01 < jml2> in that case he cant have hte two vm's talking to one another
03:01 < frwlkkaw> look my ip's on other linux
03:01 < frwlkkaw> inet 10.152.152.11  netmask 255.255.192.0  broadcast 10.152.191.255
03:01 < frwlkkaw> its working
03:01 < mgolisch> again check the vms network config in vbox
03:01 < mgolisch> make sure they are in the same network
03:01 < mgolisch> otherwise they cant talk to each other
03:02 < frwlkkaw> you mean host network manager?
03:03 < mgolisch> no i mean the network settings for the vm in vbox
03:03 < frwlkkaw> but i cant ping the gateway aswell oh
03:04 < frwlkkaw> its not a NAT network
03:04 < frwlkkaw> -.-
03:04 < jml2> frwlkkaw, how would you know?
03:04 < jml2> frwlkkaw, you said you never checked the VM network settings (in the vbox gui)
03:04 < mgolisch> so what is its configuration?
03:05 < frwlkkaw> because i change the setting of the VM to internal network
03:05 < jml2> ok
03:05 < jml2> so that means you can only talk to another VM
03:05 < mgolisch> isnt that what you want?
03:05 < jml2> that means another VM needs to have 'internal network' set -- and to the same 'name' of internal network
03:05 < mgolisch> atleast thats what this guide is going to setup
03:05 < frwlkkaw> ubuntu can talk to whatever machines are on the internal network called whonix
03:06 < jml2> frwlkkaw, ok so?
03:06 < frwlkkaw> ofc
03:06 < jml2> frwlkkaw, the word "host" means the "phyical computer" when you look at the "network" VM settings ---
03:06 < jml2> frwlkkaw, (the network settings in the vm gui)
03:06 < jml2> frwlkkaw, "host" means native machine, "guest" always refers to a VM guest..
03:11 < frwlkkaw> on ubuntu has inet 10.152.152.17/18 brd 10.152.191.255 scope global enp0s3 but on the other distro says noprefixroute insted of global
03:12 < frwlkkaw> does it have anything to do with this? and it changes the fq_codel to pfifo_fast
03:12 < frwlkkaw> i have no idea
03:12 < jml2> frwlkkaw, LOL
03:12 < frwlkkaw> -.-
03:12 < jml2> frwlkkaw, XDDXDXDX
03:12 < jml2> frwlkkaw, you're funny!!!
03:14 < frwlkkaw> oh wait
03:14 < frwlkkaw> lol
03:14 < frwlkkaw> on the other distro i can ping ubuntu
03:15 < frwlkkaw> yea same on ubuntu
03:15 < jml2> frwlkkaw, I'm sure you can!!!
03:15 < frwlkkaw> so the problem is with dns?
03:15 < jml2> frwlkkaw, hahahahaha
03:15 < frwlkkaw> i dont have internet
03:15 < Roserin> it's never dns
03:15 < frwlkkaw> wtfff
03:15 < Roserin> unless it is
03:16 < triceratux> not on ubuntu 18.04. no dns issues here
03:16 < phinxy> `ls` only prints color with TERM=xterm-256color.  Is is possible to have TERM set to that just for `ls` program?
03:16 < jml2> unless it's Donald J. Trump!!!!!!
03:16 < phinxy> Trump be trumpin
03:16 < frwlkkaw> xD
03:16 < jml2> phinxy, no, it can only be set for the who terminal... see man lscolors
03:18 < frwlkkaw> jml2: DNS Servers: 10.152.152.10
03:18 < frwlkkaw> jml2: thats gooddddd
03:18 < jml2> phinxy, LS_COLORS  (man dircolors)
03:18 < irwiss> phinxy: you can probably alias it, but why would you? practically any terminal supports colors these days
03:19 < jml2> phinxy, TERM=linux should support color everywhere..
03:19 < jml2> phinxy, in plain term and pseudo tty
03:20 < jml2> phinxy, if grep is doing color, then it is probably aliased to "grep --color=always"
03:20 < phinxy> If I put anything other than TERM=fbterm things get crazy. vim stops functioning and `tput colors` says 8 instead of 256
03:21 < jml2> phinxy, probably because your terminfo is missing description tables
03:21 < jml2> phinxy, find /usr/share/terminfo
03:21 < phinxy> the man says those are available
03:21 < phinxy> ill check
03:21 < frwlkkaw> jml2: help me :(
03:22 < jml2> frwlkkaw, you've been punked! LOL
03:22 < jml2> frwlkkaw, hahahaha
03:23  * jml2 "
03:23 < jml2> We are really sorry for what has happened and we totally understand your feeling. As seller did not provide valid tracking number, we will refund you accordingly. "
03:23 < jml2> "
03:23 < jml2> yeah!!! bad vendor on a b2b site.. gunna get my refund..
03:23 < jml2> yeah!!!!!
03:23 < Roserin> isn't the entire 10.0.0.0/24 local?
03:23 < Sveta> jml2: that's unfortunate, you seem to not have received your item
03:23 < jml2> Roserin, no
03:23 < Roserin> you sure?
03:23 < theorem> a /24 ?
03:23 < jml2> Roserin, 10/8  -- is defined -- it's larger
03:23 < Sveta> frwlkkaw: what's the problem?
03:23 < Roserin> oh right
03:24 < jml2> Roserin, you can use any 10.x.x.x
03:24 < Roserin> my bad
03:24 < frwlkkaw> Sveta: eh :(
03:24 < Roserin> yeah sorry
03:24 < Sveta> phinxy: what triggered the problem with term colors to start, and what is the problem like?
03:24 < theorem> I mean .. it's the typical class A network
03:24 < theorem> I doubt it's internet routable
03:25 < theorem> I've seen it on a few cable networks, and a lot of private ones.
03:25 < theorem> http://www.vlsm-calc.net/ipclasses.php
03:25 < jml2> Roserin, you're right that 10/24 is local, but it is a class A that can be used as a lan local
03:25 < jml2> Roserin, /8
03:25 < theorem> yes , /8
03:26 < jml2> phinxy, you should also be sure to have LANG= set, that can be a problem too
03:26 < phinxy> Sveta, Now I'm contemplating if there actually was colors in ls and I broke it.
03:26 < jml2> phinxy, ls looks at the var LS_COLORS
03:27 < jim> frwlkkaw, so you have a machine that's having problems connecting to its net?
03:27 < frwlkkaw> jim: yes
03:27 < pnbeast> If the colors in your ls run out, you can usually refill them, depending on your distro.  Debian-based things are "sudo apt-get refill_ls_colors-<name of low/empty color>".
03:27 < jim> ok, are you talking to us using a different machine?
03:29 < mgolisch> its vms i think
03:29 < phil42> we sell cartridges
03:29 < JackMa> if i turnoff computer when i run some program, then computer will be out of order?
03:29 < jim> frwlkkaw, ok, are you talking to us using a different machine?
03:30 < frwlkkaw> jim: i got whonix gateway on a vbox machine, another vbox with linux mint using the whonix gateway without problems, and another vbox with ubuntu without internet
03:31 < frwlkkaw> jim: i cant ping mint with ubuntu and same the other way
03:31 < jim> are all these machines hosted on the same machine?
03:31 < frwlkkaw> jim: yea
03:31 < frwlkkaw> jim: sorry i mean i can ping ubuntu and mint iqual
03:32 < jml2> "<frwlkkaw> Raed: Internal Network, i'm trying to connect to the whonix gateway, i follow this guide and doesnt not work https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Ubuntu"
03:32 < mgolisch> and your problem is what?
03:32 < jml2> ^ calls his internal gateway the same as the domain name.
03:32 < jml2> whonix.org site
03:32 < phinxy> `dircolor -b .dir_colors` just exports an empty $LS_COLORS ??
03:32 < jim> frwlkkaw, so your basic net connection is working? it's just one or two guests that are not?
03:32 < jml2> phinxy, if you want to modify it, you can throw it into a bash startup script
03:32 < jml2> phinxy, and then save it from there..
03:33 < Sveta> phinxy: i'd test with anoter program different from 'ls' which needs to also contain color
03:33 < frwlkkaw> jml2: only ubuntu doesnt work
03:33 < jml2> frwlkkaw, i'm telling others you are a dam fool
03:33 < jml2> lol
03:33 < phinxy> *I* use ubuntu! :O
03:33 < frwlkkaw> jml2: okay :D
03:33 < jml2> got you troll ;-
03:34 < jml2> ;-)
03:34 < jml2> lol
03:34 < frwlkkaw> jim: only ubuntu doesnt work
03:34 < pnbeast> Oh, Ubuntu.  They *sell* replacement ls colors.  Sorry, phinxy, speak with phil42.
03:34 < Sveta> phinxy: some distributions provide a 'colortest' program which may help
03:34 < mgolisch> frwlkkaw: compare its network settings to the working thing?
03:34 < frwlkkaw> jml2: how come i can ping mint from ubuntu and cant access to the internet?
03:35 < mgolisch> frwlkkaw: does something like ping 8.8.8.8 work?
03:35 < frwlkkaw> i cant ping anything i think gateway doesnt let me
03:35 < frwlkkaw> just local ips
03:36 < mgolisch> maybe check if dns works
03:36 < frwlkkaw> yes!
03:36 < frwlkkaw> how?
03:36 < mgolisch> nslookup www.google.com
03:36 < jml2> phinxy, yeah i was looking for that manpage, it is "dir_colors" ... shamefully hidden and not mentioned in SEE ALSO for ls ...
03:36 < Sveta> mgolisch: i'm really really grateful to you for your assistance with the networking question, it's a tad overwhelming
03:37 < frwlkkaw> mgolisch: on mint is works but not on ubuntu
03:37 < frwlkkaw> mgolisch: how to fix?
03:37 < mgolisch> frwlkkaw: and both use the same dns server?
03:37 < frwlkkaw> mgolisch: yes how do i configure that?
03:38 < jml2> mgolisch, he's trolling and lying because he said earlier that both vm's are using "internal network" -- so it is one million percent impossible he can even access the internet like this from either vm
03:38 < jml2> mgolisch, lol
03:38 < mgolisch> no one of the vms in that internal network is a special gateway vm
03:38 < frwlkkaw> what?! i aint trolling
03:38 < jml2> mgolisch, he can't unless he sets ip_forwarding
03:39 < mgolisch> thats setup in that gateway vm
03:39 < mgolisch> its basicaly a gateway that forces all traffic though tor or something
03:39 < frwlkkaw> thats already done
03:39 < frwlkkaw> yea
03:39 < mgolisch> if i read the website of that whonix thing right
03:39 < JackMa> if i turnoff computer when i run some program, then computer will be out of order? :)
03:39 < frwlkkaw> omg
03:40 < frwlkkaw> i am so dumm
03:40 < frwlkkaw> i found it
03:40 < mgolisch> also why do you have a cidr of /18 when the guide tells you to use /24?
03:40 < frwlkkaw> it was the nameserver
03:40 < mgolisch> cool
03:40 < frwlkkaw> on dnsresolv.conf i didnt type nameserver just inserted the ip
03:41 < frwlkkaw> jml2: but thanks for the help it was not working because the file needed to be deleted and created
03:41 < frwlkkaw> thanks for everything guys
03:41 < bug> another satisfied customer
03:42 < JackMa> if i turnoff computer when i run some program, then computer will be out of order? help me plz
03:42 < mgolisch> JackMa: yeah it will explode
03:42 < JackMa> :
03:42 < JackMa> :(
03:42 < JackMa> thanks mgolisch
03:43 < jml2> JackMa, stormy daniels!!
03:43 < JackMa> jml2: ?
03:48 < jml2> JackMa, I left my stormy daniels files on your computer!!!
03:48 < jml2> JackMa, do not turn off your computer!!!!
03:48 < Sveta> jml2: that sounds puzzling
03:48 < JackMa> jml2: you means that you are donald trump?
03:49 < JackMa> lol
03:49 < Sveta> JackMa: it depends on what program you are running, I think
03:49 < Sveta> JackMa: do you have a particular program in mind? (many linux distributions come with ext4, a file system that is not terribly easy to break by an abrupt shutdown - only a particular file that may be half written if the program was creating a new file)
03:50 < JackMa> Sveta: oh thanks :)
03:51 < dviola> is there a way to temporarily bound an address to a hostname without specifying it in /etc/hosts?
03:52 < pnbeast> dviola, why don't you describe your real problem?
03:53 < phinxy> look at that! "eval $(dircolors .dir_colors)" made ls work!  I had no luck with "export $(dircolors .dir_colors)
03:53 < dviola> pnbeast: a web app I'm working with hardcodes the labs.local domain to be used, and I don't want to change my /etc/hosts just because of this program
03:54 < dviola> pnbeast: I can either fix the app or add it to the /etc/hosts I guess
03:54 < Sveta> phinxy: what's the fix now, put it in bashrc or bash profile, or there is a separate file for ls settings?
03:55 < jml2> dviola, sure
03:55 < dviola> pnbeast: makes sense?
03:55 < jml2> dviola, with triceratux's magic of dnsmasq!!!!! LOL
03:56 < pnbeast> dviola, not really, but guessing from what you've said, it sounds like maybe you run your own local DNS or use hosts or, as you said, edit the program itself.
03:56 < jml2> dviola,  i use dnsmasq so I can have both an A and a PTR record -- dnsmasq makes this easy in just 2 lines  (easier than dhcpd zones)
03:56 < dviola> pnbeast: when I run the app I can only access it via http://labs.local:8000 - I don't like that
03:57 < pnbeast> Well, that's the intent of the .local domain, IIRC.
03:58 < dviola> I see
03:58 < irwiss> dviola: run it in a container ;)
03:58 < pnbeast> If the software is written that way, maybe it's for a good reason?  How else do you want to access it?
03:58 < jml2> dviola, you can use 127.0.2.1 ---   i try to keep 127.0.0.1 to only "localhost"
03:58 < dviola> irwiss: good idea
03:58 < bls> it only can be accessed via bonjour/avahi?
03:58 < phinxy> Sveta, ls config file.. would that be .lsrc? :)
03:58 < jml2> dviola, the rest of 127/8 is available for other uses ...
03:58 < frwlkkaw> jml2: hey i have a little problem, when i move a window around on ubuntu too fast it starts using alot of cpu and lagging abit
03:59 < frwlkkaw> jml2: it does has the vbox guest installed correctly
03:59 < dviola> the app is awful and I don't trust it, it also requires an older version of PHP to be used with, one that has been EOLed for a long time
03:59 < Sveta> phinxy: perhaps
03:59 < irwiss> that's container material for sure :P
04:00 < dviola> irwiss: what do you recommend for the container? LXC?
04:00 < pnbeast> Uggh.  Pull out your ethernet cable and put a Faraday cage around the box, too.
04:00 < jml2> phinxy,  zgrep -i color /usr/share/doc/coreutils/*gz   gives lots of mentions about TERM things for ls colors..
04:00 < bls> php, harded coded host names, improper use of the .local domain? sounds like some solid code there
04:00 < frwlkkaw> i uninstalled that settings menu from ubuntu how do i install it back?
04:00 < jml2> phinxy,  you may want to take note
04:00 < dviola> bls: it's awful
04:01 < dviola> it also uses flash (SWF) for file uploads
04:01 < dviola> when I saw that I wanted to kill myself
04:01 < pnbeast> bls, that was redundant.  He already said it was PHP.
04:01  * pnbeast dons coat.
04:01 < jml2> yuk flash
04:01 < irwiss> dviola: i use docker practically exclusive so i'm not qualified to recommend something over anything else, docker works alright
04:02 < dviola> and the SWF it uses is for a single button, that's even more pathetic
04:02 < dviola> I said "can we replace this with HTML"? nobody said anything
04:02 < irwiss> to be fair native file uploads are only now becoming not-awful
04:03 < irwiss> if you wanted upload progress it was flash or nothing up until like 2-3 years ago
04:03 < Sveta> phinxy: I'm not seeing a man page for lsrc, so my help is a bit limited here, sorry
04:03 < Curi0> what other package managers similar to gobolinux exist ?
04:04 < dviola> I installed flash that day and uninstalled after I was done with the task, but I don't know how I can work around it if I have to work with that part of the app again
04:04 < dviola> I tried bypassing the swf thing with curl, etc
04:04 < dviola> I had a hard time with it
04:04 < Sveta> dviola: I guess you could ask the web app developers of their motivation behind hardcoding this domain
04:05 < Sveta> dviola: if the web app frontend is in flash, perhaps arrange someone else to touch it, because flash is terrible (I mean, running it is probably a task that you can manage, but modifying flash frontend codes is perhaps a bigger hassle)
04:05 < phinxy> Does Mr.Stallman still maintain ls i wonder
04:06 < dviola> Sveta: yep, not all of it is in flash, only a few parts of the frontend, like an upload button
04:06 < phinxy> ls --version has his name mentioned, first time I've seen it anywhere in the Linux
04:06 < pnbeast> Every day, Stallman spends 34 minutes, starting at 11:26 and ending at 12:00, on ls.
04:07 < dviola> Sveta: there are file upload plugins that work with SWF but they degrade to HTML5 when the user doesn't have flash installed, this one won't even provide a fallback
04:07 < jml2> phinxy, I doubt RMS implemented the colors..
04:07 < jml2> lol
04:07 < jml2> Curi0, none that I know
04:07 < jml2> Curi0, maybe gobolinux on WSL XD
04:08 < dviola> obviously not using flash in the first place is the best option
04:08 < jml2> yeah!
04:08 < jml2> most of internet users are mobile users
04:09 < jml2> and that means flash should no longer be regraded feasible
04:10 < irwiss> fwiw giving macromedia the middle finger is one of the things apple did right
04:10 < irwiss> or adobe rather, but you get what i mean :)
04:10 < phinxy> Would anyone of you be surprised if I said gpm (general purpose mouse - program) did not support the protocol of a mouse?
04:10 < Sveta> phinxy: rms last wrote to coreutils mailing list in 2011, but perhaps they're still reading it (they're on a bunch of gnu-related mailing lists)
04:11 < jml2> I dare phinxy to ask RMS for help on dircolors, he'd give him the black and white gnu finger
04:11 < irwiss> iirc gpm is the part of terminal that translates specific escape sequences into mouse "positions", it doesn't talk to actual HID devices
04:12 < Sveta> phinxy: and they wrote to the coreutils (without the 'bug-' bit) list in 2015
04:12 < jml2> irwiss, it didn't take apple to give the finger.. many people were sick of its vulnerabilities already
04:12 < irwiss> though i don't think i even bothered with mouse when non-virtual terminals were relevant X-x
04:12 < Sveta> jml2: rms is not linus :P
04:13 < irwiss> it took apple to break it's back because everyone else happily sucked the sewage, even bundled their own versions of it in browsers for "compatibility"
04:13 < irwiss> yes they did it because it was broken as hell and they could get fixes in faster than adobe was moving it's bum, but they still did it
04:14 < jml2> Sveta, rms is your evil twin :p
04:14 < PaulVern> Anyone here got freesync to work with the opensource amd drivers?
04:14 < dviola> thanks y'all
04:15 < PaulVern> Here's my xrandr --prop output: https://ptpb.pw/53-J
04:15 < PaulVern> I'm expecting to see 'freesync=1' or 'freesync=0' in there as per https://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/pages/how-to-enable-amd-freesync-in-linux.aspx
04:15 < PaulVern> but as you can see, there's no mention of freesync at all...
04:17 < jml2> PaulVern, where?
04:17 < PaulVern> jml2: where what?
04:18 < slee> hi, is enabling secure boot on linux(ubuntu) worth the hassle of having to always reboot, confirm password(MOK) or just disable it?
04:18 < pnbeast> slee, that's kinda up to you to decide, isn't it?
04:20 < slee> i've been on linux for years...never used the 'install 3rd party software during install'...never used secure boot, never had any problems...just installed 18.04, decided to let it install 3rd party on OS install and now being prompted for MOK on driver changes
04:20 < jml2> PaulVern, what amd driver shows up in your X log?
04:20 < slee> just wondering what the general thoughts of others were on secure boot
04:20 < pnbeast> So, your real concern is that something changed?  Wait 'til we tell you about systemd.
04:21 < jml2> slee, its supposedly much easier .. but i never bothered to
04:21 < jml2> slee, probably for "laptop" setups..
04:21 < jml2> slee, and "using encryption"
04:22 < jml2> a properly configure laptop with uefi-secure and an encrypted drive should theoretically require a usb stick with the login key upon booting...
04:22 < Sveta> slee: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/secure-boot-vs-restricted-boot is a point of view about it; from practical perspective I do not think it's very useful, if something already got root to inject a new driver then you may have bigger problems anyway
04:22 < jml2> that's how I would use uefi secure..
04:23 < Sveta> slee: disk encryption is a good idea
04:23 < jml2> slee, consider the flak that efi secure is getting with the discovered "intel minix" in intel's intel management chip..
04:24 < slee> cool, i guess i'll reinstall again without secure boot, never had prior issues not using it, thanks for the help
04:25 < jml2> was big news when it came out a number months ago, because it defauts uefi secure
04:25 < jml2> ./*defeats*./././
04:33 < Sheilong> Good evening.
04:34 < Sheilong> I am trying to see the return value of my program, but when I run the command 'echo $' it does returns $ to me instead.
04:34 < Sheilong> I am using echo by wrong way?
04:34 < fryguy> it's $?, not $
04:35 < Sheilong> fryguy:
04:35 < Sheilong> Thank you.
04:38 < jml2> ls xyz || echo fail ;
04:38 < jml2> :p
04:38 < jml2> shortest way to do an if-then
04:39 < jml2> (technically not an if-then, but shorter way of writing a workaround when something fails)
04:40 < sauvin> A common idiom in many languages.
04:47 < snugger> So...
04:47 < snugger> How's everybody doing?
04:47 < okra> snugly
04:49 < Nefor> Hi
04:55 < sofly> just stumbled on less +F
04:55 < sofly> it's like tail -f on steroids
04:55 < sofly> you can ctrl-C out of the input and Shift-A back into it after exploring
04:57 < The_Schmidt> sofly: is it as good as lnav?
04:57 < sofly> probably not, given that i haven't heard of lnav :P
04:57 < jml2> you could make other apps behave like that with strbuf
04:58 < jml2> ./stdbuf./ rather
04:59 < jml2> even dd could possibly be set to do it like this as wel
04:59 < jml2> lit has an append mode
04:59 < The_Schmidt> do you ever use watch?
05:00  * jml2 says there is the "moreutils" package that is often overlooked for shell hungry users
05:00 < sofly> i only use inotifywait (jokes)
05:01 < The_Schmidt> lol there's a pee command
05:01 < Sheilong> I am having to learn some assembly for a compiler class.  Our professor wants us to translate our code to an asm equivalent, but neither the professor knows anything about assemble nor me lol.
05:02 < The_Schmidt> I'd suggest derek banas videos for assembly
05:03 < Sheilong> I was even confusing reading the intel manual, I tried to read the PC asm book from Paul Carter. Untill I found this book http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/pgubook/ which seems more oriented to beginners
05:03 < Sheilong> The_Schmidt: I will take a look
05:04 < The_Schmidt> and yes he's the guy that starts his vids with "well hello internet"
05:04 < neoncortex> The_Schmidt: it sounds so 90's
05:05 < The_Schmidt> if you grew up in a certain decade, I'm sure you'd have certain marks about your speech patterns as well
05:05 < jml2> The_Schmidt, that's right.. there's pee... it does same as tee but for pipes
05:06 < The_Schmidt> also a sponge .. in case you need to soak up that pee
05:06 < jml2> i never used them..
05:06 < jml2> perhaps i used pee once..
05:06 < jim> put em together, you get a house :)
05:07 < bls> do you have to do x86 assembly? a RISC chip will be a lot easier to target
05:07 < jml2> tee is already great...  it allows interactivity still ...
05:07 < jml2> not sure exactly how pee can be used..
05:08 < jml2> oh yeah "fed a copy of the standard input"
05:08 < jml2> pee "command"  --- i suppose it clones the standard input
05:09  * sauvin_ grabs a spray bottle and fills it with vinegar
05:10 < jml2> https://serverfault.com/questions/96245/linux-debian-what-does-pee-in-moreutils-do
05:10 < jml2> crazy syntax..
05:10 < neoncortex> today I discovered: alloca - allocate memory that is automatically freed, it's basically malloc, but on the stack
05:11 < sauvin_> "Note that while this is similar to tee, a copy of the input is not sent to stdout, like tee does. If that is desired, use pee cat"
05:12 < jml2> yeah that is in the manpage, but i suppose std-in is "cloned" :)
05:12 < pnbeast> So why not just automatic vars, neoncortex?  I.e., what's the point?
05:13 < neoncortex> pnbeast: have data that dinamically grows inside a function, but not need to be free after it
05:13 < neoncortex> [I think so]
05:13 < Sauvin> I'd be careful with something like that. Stacks can be brittle.
05:14 < pnbeast> neoncortex, how does it grow dynamically if you've allocated a specific amount?  The man page says roughly that it's for corner cases.
05:15 < funksh0n> Morning all.
05:15 < pnbeast> I guess I'd avoid it except as a programming curiosity or in cases where I could measure an appreciable speedup on something important.
05:15 < jml2> neoncortex, that's like place loaded garbage bags on the kitchen table.... ya gotta need some kind of garbage collection for all those mallocsc
05:15 < neoncortex> pnbeast: I can think in a function that executes a loop and build a linked list on it, the list growing dinamuically
05:15 < jml2> funksh0n, morning earthling
05:16 < jml2> funksh0n, did you install linux yet?
05:16 < deusstultus> rc4 killed the crocodile hunter
05:16 < neoncortex> #dinamically
05:16 < snugger> jml2: You mean GNU/Linux
05:16 < Aph3x-WL> GNU/NT*
05:16 < snugger> Nobody should install just a kernel
05:16 < pnbeast> neoncortex, and how is that better than a linked list "on the heap"?
05:16  * jml2 believes snugger sleeps tight with his GNU teddybear
05:16 < Sauvin> neoncortex, you don't want linked lists in the stack, if that's what alloca does.
05:17 < snugger> jml2: It should be called GNU/Linux
05:17 < neoncortex> pnbeast: it's not, it's just took out of you the burden of freeing it
05:17 < snugger> The Linux kernel is merely a component of GNU
05:17 < Sauvin> Here, the whole thing together is called "linux". If you don't like it, be somewhere else.
05:17 < jim> and not just gnu, but other userlands as well
05:17 < neoncortex> the manpage actually says the use is discouraged, but it's a nice curiosity
05:18 < snugger> Sauvin: The whole thing together is GNU/Linux
05:18 < snugger> Stop calling it what it isn't
05:18 < pnbeast> neoncortex, anyway, as Sauvin said, sort of, you'll burn your stack up with games like that.  At least, historically you wouldn't want to build anything too exotic on the stack.  To be clearer, I treat stack space as limited.  I guess the automatic free is nice, but valgrind has obviated a lot of that concern.
05:19 < Sauvin> Snugger: in here, we just call it "linux". You're not going to burn the channel up arguing otherwise.
05:19 < neoncortex> pnbeast: sounds reasonable
05:19 < pnbeast> I just call it GNU, to piss off the anti-gnu clowns.
05:19 < snugger> Sauvin: Then you're calling it wrong though
05:20 < snugger> I don't care what you decide to call it, but if you exclude the GNU name you're saying it wrong.
05:20 < pnbeast> GNU/snugger, I admire your stance.  Yay, freedom!  Yay, foot-rinds for lunch!
05:20 < neoncortex> snugger: I like open source software
05:20 < Sauvin> Yeah, gotta love them BLTs - boogers, lungers and toejam!
05:20 < pnbeast> ZOMG!  An open-source shot fired!!!
05:20 < jml2> before the programming language C, there was B and A, each successor built upon the other, do you know have to call it A/B/C XD
05:21 < jml2> LOL
05:21 < snugger> neoncortex: I do too!
05:21 < Sauvin> jml2, I don't remember the sequence, exactly, but I thought C was a successor to soemthing called BCPL.
05:21 < jml2> the GNU has you when you talk "license".
05:21 < pnbeast> snugger, you can't play both sides of the fence that obviously.  You have to wait until the argument swells a little bit.  That's just bad trolling.
05:21 < jml2> it was a successor to bcpl... i think other things as well
05:21 < snugger> pnbeast: I am not trolling
05:21 < snugger> sad if you think I am
05:22 < Sauvin> Probably craploads of things. Assembly language driven by a pile of shell scripts eventually morphed into something resembling a language.
05:22 < jml2> when someone wants to talk about protecting the license of linux imho they would use GNU/ ...
05:22 < pnbeast> snugger, that's better.  Just remember to space out your contrary arguments a little bit.
05:22 < jml2> for quick chit-chat no need to be so anal on the GNU/ thing :P
05:23 < stevendale> Hey :)
05:23 < snugger> jml2: But that is its name
05:23 < Sauvin> I tend to specify "GNU/Linux" when people start yacking about how $weird_OS is also a Linux because it uses a Linux kernel. My toaster oven might run something based on a Linux kernel (however modifed it might be), but it's still a Toaster OS, and not GNU/Linux.
05:23 < Sauvin> Otherwise, it's just "Linux".
05:23 < funksh0n> jm12 Yes I did
05:23 < funksh0n> jml2:
05:23 < pnbeast> It's just GNU!
05:24  * Sauvin drops a bucket of yak yuck on pnbeast's head
05:24 < snugger> It's just " "
05:24 < funksh0n> jml2: I've not used Windows since around Jan at all, and linux has been my daily for about 2 years
05:24 < snugger> funksh0n: GNU/Linux*
05:24 < funksh0n> nope just the kernel
05:25 < snugger> You can't really run just the Linux kernel
05:25 < snugger> It'd be basically impossible
05:25 < snugger> A kernel is not enough to make a running system
05:25 < Sauvin> snugger: drop it.
05:25 < funksh0n> snugger: I'm a deity so normal rules don't apply
05:28 < kajika> Hello, I am trying to make a mass storage USB gadget but I hit a problem : `mkdir: cannot create directory '/sys/kernel/config/usb_gadget': Operation not permitted`. I can't see why I don't have the permission even though I am root
05:28 < fryguy> sysfs isn't a normal filesystem
05:30 < kajika> so this is wrong http://trac.gateworks.com/wiki/linux/OTG#g_multi?
05:30 < Sveta> funksh0n: hi :-) I'm glad Linux is your daily. What distribution? What are your main use-cases if you don't mind me asking?
05:31 < jml2> kajika, could be that your kernel was not compiled with the support, or you didnt load a proper module
05:32 < kajika> is there a way to check the kernel config for such a thing?
05:33 < jml2> kajika, usually /boot/config* things
05:33 < jml2> kajika, if not there then it's probably in /proc/config.gz
05:33 < jml2> kajika, (zcat /proc/config.gz)
05:34 < Sveta> :)
05:34 < jml2> dont forget "lsmod" for checking loaded modules
05:34 < kajika> lsmod is always empty (I guess that is a sign)
05:34  * jml2 (thinks he sounds too new for this XD)
05:34 < toothe> anyone know if gnome can be modified to....not have that damn search menu take up the entire screen?
05:35 < kajika> no /boot/config but /proc/config.gz is there
05:35 < toothe> I find it so annoying.
05:35 < Roey> hihi toothe!!
05:35 < toothe> hey Roey!
05:35 < Sveta> lsmod being empty sounds weird, I'd run it as root and check again
05:35 < Roey> just passing through, saw your nickname here :)
05:35 < toothe> yeah, I'm alwyas in like 10 channels
05:35 < toothe> 24/7
05:35 < Sveta> hi Roey :-)
05:35 < Roey> hi Sveta :)
05:36 < Roey> oh wait this is ##linux
05:36 < Roey> toothe: since when do you come in here??
05:36 < Roey> I thought this was ##security for a moemnt, haha
05:36 < toothe> Always? My desktop is Linux.
05:36 < toothe> its the best desktop OS there is, IMO.
05:36 < toothe> (except for Word)
05:49 < kajika> I am trying to create a directory in configfs but even mount outside /sys doesn't work (read https://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-scsi/msg54542.html), does anyone know a solution?
05:50 < garylabronz> ifconfig shows RX bytes, TX bytes. i now only have "ip" what is the equavlient command to get RX/TX in bytes?
05:51 < bls> ethtool?
05:56 < CrazyTux> hello, I formatted two partitions on my laptop's harddisk. I am not able to create any folders in those partition and not able to copy any files either.
05:57 < Sveta> do you get an error message?
05:57 < Sveta> Roey: for a moment I thought it was ##networking, since that's what was discussed :)
05:57 < CrazyTux> Sveta, no. I think it has to do something about permissions.
05:57 < Sveta> CrazyTux: how do you know that it is not working? what are the symptoms?
05:59 < CrazyTux> sveta, didn't get you.
05:59 < Sauvin> CrazyTux, what happens when you try?
06:00 < CrazyTux> I can't create any folder in that partition.
06:01 < Roey> Sveta: haha nice :)
06:02 < Sauvin> #@#$%#$#
06:02 < Sveta> Sauvin: what happened?
06:02 < Sauvin> CrazyTux, if that's as observant as you can manage to be, we're not going to be able to help you much.
06:03 < Sveta> CrazyTux: what program are you using to add a new folder or copy?
06:03 < aaro> garylabronz: ip -s link
06:03 < LiftLeft> does anyone know where can get this speech synthesis voice via the command line? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o4MDP3563A
06:04 < CrazyTux> Sveta, I am on Ubuntu Mate 18.04 now. When I mount that partition and right click to create a new folder, that option is not active.
06:04 < Sauvin> What are you "right clicking" in?
06:05 < garylabronz> aaro: thanks!
06:05 < CrazyTux> Caja file manager.
06:05 < Sauvin> .oO("Caja"?)
06:05  * Sauvin googles
06:06 < CrazyTux> which is the default file manager for Ubuntu Mate.
06:06 < Sauvin> yeah, got that. Trouble is, I don't know a damn thing about mate. Can you drop into a CLI?
06:07 < CrazyTux> yes
06:07 < CrazyTux> I opened the terminal in that partition
06:08 < Sauvin> Do you know what the partition's nodes in /dev are?
06:09 < CrazyTux> nodes?
06:09 < Sauvin> For example, /dev/sda6 on my system is mounted to /
06:10 < CrazyTux> ok. it is /dev/sda2 and /dev/sda3
06:10 < Sauvin> Onto what mountpoints did you mount them?
06:12 < [R]> Sauvin: you like mounting filesystems, dont you?
06:12 < Sauvin> I've got a few... ;)
06:13 < CrazyTux> just a minute
06:16 < Sauvin> This is gonna take a while, ain't it? :\
06:16 < [R]> that's what she said
06:19 < Sveta> CrazyTux: if you run 'mount' you will probably see that it is read-only
06:20 < Sveta> CrazyTux: sometimes there is information about the reasons for this, logged. maybe in output of 'dmesg'.
06:26 < CrazyTux> Sveta, what do I need to do now?
06:26 < Sveta> CrazyTux, pastebin your output of 'mount'
06:26 < Sveta> CrazyTux, pastebin your output of 'dmesg' as root
06:26 < CrazyTux> ok
06:28 < CrazyTux> Sveta, https://hastebin.com/kujajisuco.vbs
06:30 < CrazyTux> I wish I could do all these through some GUI tool.
06:30 < Sveta> CrazyTux, and 'mount' ?
06:31 < jim> CrazyTux, you gonna be typing a lot... might as well get gtypist :)
06:31 < CrazyTux> https://hastebin.com/rehigejiyu.go
06:34 < Sauvin> I didn't see mount output.
06:34 < jim> CrazyTux, try this: mount | nc termbin.com 9999
06:34 < TR1950X> Sysinfo for 'TR1950X': Running inside KDE Plasma 5.12.4 on KDE neon 5.12 powered by Linux 4.15.18-041518-generic, CPU: AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X 16-Core Processor at 1553-3025/3900 MHz, RAM: 12738/32107 MB, Storage: 455/890 GB, 482 procs, 55.29h up, GPU: AMD Vega Fronttier Edition 16GB, Nvidia GTX 1060 3GB, Nvidia GTX 1060 3GB
06:34 < jim> meetoo
06:35 < jim> TR1950X, please don't paste that on the channel
06:37 < CrazyTux> http://termbin.com/yayx
06:39 < jim> that was the mount output... thanks
06:41 < Sauvin> I don't see /dev/sda2 or /dev/sda3 in that, thought these were the problem partitions?
06:43 < pabed_> hi guys , I run arpwatch but I dont know why it is listening on virbr0 instead of ens160 while I command "arpwatch -i ens160"?
06:43 < CrazyTux> don't know how to get that.
06:46 < stevendale> Hey \o/
06:46 < stevendale> I am back
06:46 < stevendale> Grandma said her laptop was slow
06:48 < stevendale> So I am fixing it
06:48  * [R] gives stevendale a gold star
06:48 < Sauvin> CrazyTux, repeat after me, on a command line: mount | nc termbin.com 9999
06:51 < CrazyTux> http://termbin.com/ogcd
06:52 < Sauvin> Hrm... mmkay... still not seeing /dev/sda2 or /dev/sda3. You're sure those are the partitions you're having trouble with, CrazyTux?
06:56 < CrazyTux> Sauvin, yes.
06:57 < Sauvin> CrazyTux, how are you mounting the partitions?
06:58 < CrazyTux> by clicking on them
06:58 < Sauvin> Oh, god save me from all this pointing and clicking!
06:59 < CrazyTux> Sauvin, btw, are commands different for different distros?
06:59 < Sauvin> How did you format them?
06:59 < CrazyTux> Sauvin, using gparted.
06:59 < Sauvin> Generally, no. Under GNU/Linux, the mount command is the mount command, period.
06:59 < Sauvin> What fs did you use to format them with?
06:59 < CrazyTux> ext4
06:59 < deusstultus> I use ung/xunil, ohce and des are my most used tools
06:59 < Sauvin> Where do you want them mounted?
07:00  * Sauvin loans deusstultus a mirror
07:01 < CrazyTux> I just want to copy files in those partitions. Want to create folders and files in them.
07:02  * Sauvin gives up
07:02 < kuri0> What other Linux distros have package management similar to GoboLinux ?
07:02 < CrazyTux> does it have to do with file permissions?
07:03 < Sauvin> CrazyTux, no, the partitions aren't even mounted.
07:05 < Sauvin> kuri0, I'm reading up on Gobolinux in wikipedia, and what it's saying suggests to me a hierarchy an awful lot like that of a Macintosh.
07:05 < Sauvin> Or.... ugh... Windows.
07:07 < Sauvin> Man... I don't think I'd want to see what a PATH environment variable under such a scheme would look like!
07:08 < neoncortex> GoboLinux is not the one who dicided to took shared libraries and put it together with applications to have different versions of the library?
07:08 < neoncortex> I think I remember when it comes out
07:08 < kuri0> Sauvin, still theres shared libraries
07:09 < Sauvin> kuri0, yeah, but you still have to have entry points for the individual programs themselves. If the primary binary for each program is in its own directory, a PATH on *my* system would be several kilobytes long.
07:09 < kuri0> Sauvin, it symlinks them to /usr/bin
07:09 < Sauvin> neoncortex, what's your native language?
07:10 < Sauvin> Oh?
07:10 < neoncortex> Sauvin: pt
07:10 < Sauvin> Oh. Hrm. That might work.
07:10 < kuri0> Sauvin, it keeps libraries in /usr/lib too
07:11 < Sauvin> neoncortex, https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/GoboLinux
07:12 < Sauvin> That doesn't actually say much. The French page, if you can read French, is more inclusive.
07:13 < Sauvin> neoncortex, the Spanish page is also more inclusive.
07:14 < kuri0> does anyone know where the source for the gobolinux package manager is ?
07:15 < neoncortex> It looks interesting, maybe I'll play with it in a VM
07:16 < Sveta> neoncortex, did you check https://github.com/gobolinux ?
07:17 < Sveta> sorry
07:17 < Sveta> neoncortex, unping
07:17 < Sveta> kuri0, did you check https://github.com/gobolinux ?
07:17 < kuri0> yeah couldn't find the package manager
07:18 < kuri0> also it seems easier to sandbox gobolinux programs since you can restrict them to only their dependency folders
07:18 < Sveta> kuri0, do you have it with you? do you have an example of output from the package manager? could search by string
07:18 < kuri0> Sveta, i had it in a vm
07:19 < kuri0> let me boot it up
07:23 < bls> if you want to isolate apps, there are better approaches than the goofy stuff gobo does. see qubes or subgraph
07:23 < [R]> lol
07:23 < kuri0> flatpak too
07:23 < [R]> maybe gogo means goofy in some foreign language
07:24 < kuri0> *gobo
07:24 < [R]> that too
07:31 < Sauvin> flatpak is cool, but the selection of apps is kinda slim.
07:31 < kuri0> flatpak is like android package manager. you can't share librari
07:31 < bls> it's a very small selection of things that would work will in that distribution model
07:32 < bls> well
07:35 < pepee> anyone knows why companies are moving away from Xen to KVM? (or so it seems to me...)
07:37 < DLange> because KVM is a core kernel functionality that works very well by now and Xen has lost its innovation edge ~three years ago
07:37 < [R]> and deosnt xen still require special stuff?
07:38 < DLange> yes, there is quite some outside-tree stuff to it
07:38 < bls> xen always felt like odd proprietary software to me meaning it got compared to vmware or vbox instead of kvm
07:38 < acresearch> hello people, i spoke to comeone here before (2 days ago) regarding my server maxing out the CPU for no "apparent" reason, it happened again (alomost exactly at the same time of day). it is still maxing out the CPU and htop is not giving an indication of a particular program that is doing that. anyone can help me identify the cause? is it a hack or a mine?
07:38 < DLange> Amazon and a few universities are still quite heavily invested that kinda keeps it chucking a bit longer
07:39 < DLange> how to you know the CPU is maxed out if htop doesn't show you, acresearch?
07:40 < acresearch> DLange: no i mean it is not showing me what program is maxing out the CPU, but it shows the CPU is at 100%
07:40 < Sitri> Is htop currently sorting by CPU usage?
07:40 < pepee> what about the security of Xen?
07:40 < rosa> Does anyone know how i can impliment fork() as when i execute http://rextester.com/GTVM59785 i only get child process https://i.imgur.com/f7iRc2F.jpg
07:40 < kuri0> acresearch, do you have hidepid enabled ?
07:41 < acresearch> kuri0: not sure, what is that?
07:41 < kuri0> acresearch, hides processes from other users
07:41 < pepee> I want to try Qubes. I installed it, but... this seems way more complicated than QEMU
07:41 < acresearch> kuri0: i don't knowm so probably not
07:41 < kuri0> maybe its some kind of virus on your server thats hiding itself
07:41 < kuri0> did you try rebooting it
07:42 < acresearch> kuri0: how do i find out, also how so i paste to you guys the htop data? maybe i am not reading it properly
07:42 < acresearch> kuri0: when i reboot the cpu usage returns to normal
07:42 < pepee> QEMU/KVM, whcih I do have some experience running (and I find it awesome, the kind of stuff you can do in qemu is just incredible)
07:42 < acresearch> this is the 5th time this happens
07:42 < kuri0> acresearch, then when does it become high again ?
07:42 < Sveta> acresearch, in htop, press shift + p, it sorts by cpu
07:42 < DLange> run     top -o "%CPU"     then, acresearch, and see how that changes when you have the issue
07:42 < bls> heh, my cpu usage is high immediately means someone has hacked me to install the first ever linux CPU eating virus
07:42 < acresearch> Sveta: it shows everything at 0
07:43 < kuri0> acresearch, how do you know the cpu usage is high ?
07:43 < Sveta> acresearch, do you see processes from other users, or only yours?
07:43 < acresearch> kuri0: htop says it is 100% and i get an email from the server company saying it has been at 100% for several hours
07:44 < kuri0> acresearch, sounds like you've got some kind of crypto mining virus which hides it's process
07:44 < acresearch> Sveta: i don't know how to find out other users,   but the service only I have access to it, it is hosting a website and some irc and twitter bots
07:44 < acresearch> kuri0: how do i find it out?
07:44 < Sveta> you can select htop and copy/paste it into a pastebin
07:44 < acresearch> Sveta: show me how
07:44 < kuri0> acresearch, can you tell what mount says
07:44 < kuri0> run mount command and tell what it says
07:44 < DLange> acresearch: run the command I gave you with sudo prefixed or from a root shell
07:44 < Sveta> acresearch, selecting copies it, and middle-clicking pastes
07:44 < kuri0> then i can check if you have hidepid
07:44 < bls> you're chasing zebras right now. until you actually find the processes, you have no idea what it is
07:44 < Sitri> rosa: I get both
07:45 < acresearch> ok guys 1 at a time please because my skills in linux debugging and networking is not that great :-(
07:45 < acresearch> first i want to send you what htop is showing me so you cann what i see
07:45 < acresearch> how?
07:46 < deusstultus> list anonymous
07:46 < deusstultus> /fail
07:46 < kuri0> acresearch, can you tell what /etc/ld.so.preload has ?
07:46 < acresearch> kuri0: -bash: /etc/ld.so.preload: No such file or directory
07:46 < acresearch> kuri0:  the server is runnung ubuntu 16.04
07:46 < kuri0> what does mount command say ?
07:47 < kuri0> put it on a pastebin
07:47 < acresearch> kuri0: http://paste.debian.net/1023642/
07:48 < kuri0> acresearch, could you reinstall the htop utility ?
07:48 < DLange> now put   top -o "%CPU" -n 1    in the pastebin
07:48 < acresearch> DLange: ok 1 moment
07:48 < DLange> htop is complex, you can make to many config mistakes in that one as a beginner
07:48 < acresearch>  kuri0 you mean apt remove htop   then apt install htop?
07:49 < kuri0> yes
07:49 < acresearch> DLange: http://paste.debian.net/1023644/
07:49 < DLange> acresearch: a python3 task with pid 11084 is eating your CPU
07:49 < kuri0> acresearch, theres a python3
07:49 < bls> it's right there. you've got a runaway python process
07:50 < kuri0> acresearch, can you show the command line of it
07:50 < acresearch> aha
07:50 < kuri0> so we can see if its a virus installed or just a bugging program
07:50 < acresearch> i think it is my stupid IRCBOT
07:50 < pepee> acresearch, ps xauf | grep python
07:51 < acresearch> pepee: http://paste.debian.net/1023647/
07:51 < DLange> bingo, your IRC bot
07:51 < acresearch> it is my ircbot.pt ha?
07:51 < bls> you're running an IRC bot as root?
07:51 < acresearch> dam stupid bot
07:51 < bls> also, horses
07:51 < kuri0> lol
07:51 < acresearch> am i always root on a server right?
07:51 < acresearch> sorry for my newbness
07:51 < [R]> acresearch: you're only root if you log in as root or switch to the root user
07:52 < pepee> lol
07:52 < bls> no, you should only be root when you absolutely have to be
07:52 < acresearch> bls: i see
07:52 < pepee> i.e., always
07:52 < pepee> if you want to feel powerful
07:52 < kuri0> acresearch, keep running programs in their own user
07:52 < kuri0> create a user called ircbot and run it on that
07:52 < acresearch> ok let me fix this then i will findout how to make a user in the CLI
07:52 < pepee> j/k, make a new user and run stuff as the new user
07:52 < acresearch> ok
07:53 < Sitri> I like how no-one appeared to have noticed this back when he posted the mount output
07:53 < jim> acresearch, to give you an example, there is a database server called postgres, and because it's though to be unwise to run as root, the postgres server will refuse to run as root
07:53 < acresearch> Sitri: :-(
07:53 < pepee> also, don't allow remote ssh as root... but only after setting up ssh for that user, of course
07:53 < bls> acresearch: if someone figured out a way to manipulate your ircbot, they could use it as a vector to take control of the rest of the system. it's also going to have the ability to fill your drive to capacity when running as root
07:53 < acresearch> bls: ahaa
07:53 < acresearch> bls: i see
07:54 < jim> yeah, you don't want to run an irc bot as root
07:54 < acresearch> ok , anyway it does not seem to have any code other than mine i will turn it off now
07:55 < bls> mount output isn't going to show us that root's executing a runaway python process
07:55 < acresearch> anything else before i reboot the system? it will turn off the bot and the cpu usage
07:56 < Sitri> You could just kill the bot instead
07:56 < acresearch> i would rather just reboot and see how to make a user
07:56 < Sitri> Or even better hook a debugger into it
07:56 < acresearch> Sitri: how?
07:57 < Sitri> Read your debugger's manpage
07:57 < acresearch> ok
07:58 < acresearch> thanks everyone, i learned new things :-)
08:03 < jim> acresearch, what do you generally like to do with linux?
08:04 < Sveta> acresearch, what kind of irc bot is this?
08:05 < acresearch> Sveta: i am trying to start a channel here in freenode to get all the people who do Molecular Dynamics together, so the bot just says , this is a new channel,,blah blah,,, tell more people to join   that is it
08:06 < acresearch> jim: well i use linux full time, but for computational biology ,,, and running a small server hosting a website that no oneuses
08:06 < acresearch> jim: that no one uses
08:09 < [R]> you need a bot to do that?
08:09 < [R]> cchanserv will do that by itslef
08:09 < [R]> lol
08:09 < nothos> acresearch If it's poorly configured there might be more folks using your server than you imagine :P
08:10 < Sitri> ... maybe I'm misunderstanding the ps output... but wasn't the 100% CPU version of the bot shelling out and calling grep?
08:11 < acresearch> [R]: oh?
08:12 < acresearch> nothos: that is what i am afraid of, how can i check?
08:13 < acresearch> Sitri: i am not sure
08:18 < Sauvin> acresearch, have you already established your channel?
08:18 < acresearch> Sauvin: you mean registered, yes
08:18 < Sauvin> What's the channel?
08:19 < acresearch> #gromacs
08:22 < acresearch> Sitri: does starting apache2 from root to run a website also bad?
08:23 < Sitri> You should be using the distro's supported means of starting it
08:23 < Sitri> Which should take care of that for you
08:27 < acresearch> Sitri: i just followed tutorials on setting up the website, they did not mention any root stuff or any distro support, it was just start apache2 and there you go :-/
08:28 < Sitri> What command did you use to start apache?
08:29 < Tahlwyn> hey all, I'm trying to set up Matomo (formerly piwik) and it just doesn't seem to want to believe that I have php with iconv. I've even compiled from source using --with-iconv (even though it's default) and it still says I don't have it.
08:29 < acresearch> Sitri: service apache2 restart
08:29 < Sitri> That'll do the proper stuff
08:29 < acresearch> oh ok
08:29 < nothos> Tahlwyn How are you running PHP?
08:29 < acresearch> Sitri: so then i just have to run my bots from a user right?
08:30 < Tahlwyn> apache2
08:30 < Sitri> Yeah
08:30 < Tahlwyn> basic LAMP stack
08:30 < nothos> If it's mod_php with httpd, you'll need to restart the service for any changes to take effect
08:30 < kajika> I am trying to create a directory in configfs but even mount outside /sys doesn't work (read https://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-scsi/msg54542.html), does anyone know a solution?
08:30 < Tahlwyn> i have
08:30 < nothos> Tahlwyn So yeah, give httpd (apache2 if debian) a restart
08:30 < nothos> Hmm, okay
08:30 < nothos> How was PHP installed? I assume also via apt/yum?
08:31 < ||JD||> acresearch: you should install daemons from you packages manager, that will keep you safe of doing silly things, mostly
08:31 < Tahlwyn> pacman, yeah. but then I reinstalled from source
08:31 < nothos> Oh, arch
08:31 < nothos> Oh goody
08:31 < Tahlwyn> yeah It's just my home server i fiddle with so it's arch
08:31 < nothos> Okay, when you build from source, PHP doesn't copy a working php.ini file into the required location
08:31 < nothos> So do php -i | grep php.ini
08:31 < acresearch> ||JD||: i don't know about daemons, where can i read about them and how they function?
08:31 < nothos> And make sure there's a php.ini there
08:32 < nothos> If not in your php source folder there should be a file called php.ini.production or something like that
08:32 < acresearch> ||JD||: should i search under network deamons? or linux deamons?
08:32 < nothos> Also if you could do php -i | grep configure and stick it in a pastebin that'd be good
08:32 < nothos> Could be an issue with the config line
08:32 < Tahlwyn> yeah /usr/local/lib
08:33 < Tahlwyn> Configure command=> './configure' '--with-iconv'
08:33 < nothos> Okay, that won't be helping
08:34 < nothos> Tahlwyn iconv is bundled as standard, if you're using --with-iconv you need to provide a path to a custom built lib
08:34 < Tahlwyn> balls
08:34 < nothos> I also assume you have iconv installed on the server too?
08:36 < ||JD||> acresearch: they are just process running in background
08:37 < ||JD||> did you perform a manual install of your web server?
08:37 < nothos> Tahlwyn Oooh, also, if you wanna use the custom built PHP as mod_php you need to point configure to apxs too
08:37 < nothos> So it's possible (likely?) you're still running the one from pacman
08:39 < nothos> I'll admit I'm not 100% sure with how arch does its packages though, so I'm not sure if it'd be as simple as installing some sort of php-iconv package or not
08:42 < Tahlwyn> unfotunately there is no php-iconv package for some reason.
08:42 < Tahlwyn> I've done this a few times before on other servers and it was so simple and easy
08:42 < acresearch> ||JD||: yes i manually installed apache2 and coded the html
08:42 < acresearch> ||JD||: very basic
08:43 < MrElendig> acresearch: you really shouldn't do that
08:44 < MrElendig> use your package manager
08:46 < Tahlwyn> I'm gonna take another whack at this in the morning when I've had some sleep, it's about 3am here. Thanks for the help.
08:47 < Sitri> Arch's PHP is built with --with-iconv=shared
08:47 < ||JD||> acresearch: that's what I mean, installing it from the package manager would have prevented you from running it as root, and probably many other mistakes
08:49 < acresearch> ||JD||: from the packgae manager,,, hmmm   ok let me look back at my notes 1 moment
08:49 < ||JD||> acresearch: what distribution are you using?
08:49 < Sitri> Ubunutu 2016
08:50 < MrElendig> ubuntu has no release named that
08:50 < Sitri> <acresearch> kuri0:  the server is runnung ubuntu 16.04
08:50 < Junior> hello!
08:50 < Sitri> It's an Ubuntu from 2016, that's all the information I bother to remember when seeing Ubuntu version numbers
08:51 < Junior> i am using a restrictive firewall meaning that i have only opened some ports for outgoing comm. I am trying to do whois 8.8.8.8 but i get connect: Network is unreachable
08:51 < ||JD||> acresearch: use apt or apt-get to install your packages
08:51 < Junior> any ideas what ports should i open for whois?
08:51 < Sitri> Junior: you can strace whois 8.8.8.8
08:52 < Junior> :51931->whois.arin.net:whois (SYN_SENT)
08:52 < acresearch> ||JD||: i use apt to install apache2 -> then  i setup flask
08:52 < Junior> A WHOIS server listens on TCP port 43 for requests from WHOIS clients.
08:52 < acresearch> ||JD||:  in a virtualenv
08:53 < MrElendig> acresearch: I would drop apache
08:53 < acresearch> MrElendig: oh
08:53 < Junior> that was it, 43, thanks! :)
08:53 < MrElendig> you don't need it if you are just playing around anyway
08:53 < acresearch> MrElendig: well i am hosting a website
08:53 < MrElendig> just use uwsgi/gunicorn/paste
08:54 < MrElendig> acresearch: that doesn't require apache
08:54 < acresearch> MrElendig: oh
08:54 < acresearch> MrElendig: what is the alternative?
08:54 < MrElendig> and mod_python is horrible anyway, so you would only use apache to proxy to one of the ones I mentioned
08:56 < ||JD||> acresearch: if you installed apache via apt then I'm not sure how is that you ended up running it as root
08:56 < MrElendig> if you want something in front then I suggest nginx
08:56 < MrElendig> sidenote: I would install 18.04 and python 3.6
08:56 < MrElendig> ||JD||: by doing # httpd
08:57 < acresearch> ||JD||: hmmm
08:57 < ||JD||> well that's sad
08:57 < Sitri> ||JD||: it was confirmed he started it with service
08:57 < acresearch> ||JD||: i am on linode and i just followed their tutorial
08:58 < ||JD||> so how is it running as root?
08:59 < acresearch> ||JD||: when we setup the server there is only root to ssh into
08:59 < MrElendig> the first thing you should always do on a new install is useradd
09:00 < MrElendig> and disable root over ssh
09:00 < MrElendig> and change that root password
09:00 < wadadli> if I use virsh to connect to the console of a domain. dettach and attempt to reattach, I no longer receive any output from the tty
09:01 < wadadli> any clues?
09:01 < stevendale> Hi
09:01 < kajika> hello there, I am fighting with mdprobe, it returns nothing in stderr/stdout, no log (running with systemd) and lsmod is empty. I have the kernel config and everything looks ok (I am not sure of wich configuration to look though)
09:01 < acresearch> MrElendig: ok
09:02 < MrElendig> kajika: uname -r
09:06 < stevendale> OwO
09:06 < stevendale> 1.1 MB/s!
09:07 < stevendale> ^_^
09:07 < stevendale> Download speed
09:07  * MrElendig didn't expect any reply
09:07 < stevendale> Satellite NBN at my grandmothers, faster than my ADSL2+ at home :3
09:07 < Rembo> hello everyone, i'm getting this: curl: (35) error:140770FC:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:unknown protocol
09:09 < kajika> MrElendig: uname -r => 4.5.0-00198-g6b20a29-dirty
09:09 < MrElendig> kajika: so you are running a custom kernel
09:10 < MrElendig> Rembo: don't use ssl
09:10 < MrElendig> Rembo: tell whoever owns the remote server that it is 2018, not 1994
09:10 < MrElendig> Rembo: the old insecure ssl versions are disabled by default now
09:11 < kajika> MrElendig: I know my point is how I know if modprobe works or not, also I am following the guide to build the kernel for the device and I stilll have no clue how I can enable module loading
09:11 < MrElendig> kajika: have you actually built the kernel with module support, and have modules for it?
09:11 < MrElendig> kajika: and why would you build 4.5.0?  and what guide are you reading?
09:12 < MrElendig> also, did you depmod?
09:12 < kajika> MrElendig: if this help https://pastebin.com/UjL0upSX , this is the current kernel config
09:12 < kajika> I didn't depmod
09:13 < kajika> The guide : https://github.com/intel/meta-de10-nano
09:14 < Rembo> MrElendig: Debian GNU/Linux 9 \n \l , it is not so old
09:14 < MrElendig> 4.5.0 is ancient and is not a lts kernel
09:14 < Rembo> MrElendig: https://hastebin.com/fatakuzude.go
09:15 < MrElendig> I strongly suggest atleast using a kernel that is actually supported
09:15 < Rembo> MrElendig, uname -r 4.9.0-4-amd64
09:16 < Rembo> is not 4.5
09:16 < MrElendig> Rembo: the kernel comment was not for you
09:17 < Rembo> MrElendig, how can i fix this issue?
09:18 < kajika> MrElendig: even though kernel is not super new should be able to modprobe no? being on a specific FPGA device I don't want to deviate too much, I really feel this is a kernel configuration problem
09:18 < MrElendig> Rembo: make a new cert, use tls 1.2
09:18 < acresearch> MrElendig: ||JD|| ok it seems i learned something bad with this apache thing, what is the proper way to setup a server to host a website?
09:20 < Rembo> MrElendig, how can i generate/create a new certificate?
09:20 < MrElendig> Rembo: if your openssl/curl for some reason still supports ssl v2/3 then it could be due to your isp doing evil things
09:20 < MrElendig> just what are you trying to talk to?
09:21 < Rembo> curl: (4) OpenSSL was built without SSLv2 support
09:21 < Rembo> curl: (4) OpenSSL was built without SSLv3 support
09:22 < ovalseven8> Hey, does somebody know how I will be able to see the results? https://dpaste.de/EKsw
09:22 < MrElendig> Rembo: good
09:23 < MrElendig> what are you trying to talk to? something you control?
09:23 < hexnewbie> ovalseven8: wait 247 minutes, run smartctl -a on the disk
09:23 < ||JD||> acresearch: I missed part of what you explained here, my guess according what I was able to read is that apache process running as root is just the parent process
09:23 < ovalseven8> hexnewbie, Thanks!
09:23 < ||JD||> which you don't have to worry about
09:24 < Rembo> MrElendig , yes, i have control on the server root access
09:24 < MrElendig> switch to tls 1.2 then
09:25 < acresearch> ||JD||: oh ok
09:25 < ||JD||> if you installed it through your packet manager you should be ok, just make sure you manage it through the init script
09:25 < acresearch> ||JD||: i will remove my stupid bots to a different server just to reduce the chances of them breaking my website
09:25 < ||JD||> service apache start
09:25 < MrElendig> make a new cert the same way as you set it up the first time, just make it for tls 1.2 with a strong cipher
09:25 < Sitri> He was
09:25 < ||JD||> stop / whatever
09:26 < MrElendig> and enable tls 1.2 on the server
09:26 < elichai2> hey, I have a weird problem.  if I connect my laptop to my Lenovo thunderbolt dock the system almost hangs(I can click CTRL+ALT+F1 and only after 30-40 secs it will open tty) but if I disconnect it goes back in 10 seconds, If I connect and reboot the dock works fine, I have some errors in dmesg but no new ones when I connect and disconnect from the dock, I have this in Xorg.log https://pastebin.com/fL3KwGJx
09:26 < MrElendig> may require you to upgrade depending on how ancient it is
09:26 < acresearch> ||JD||: but where can i read about the proper way to setup a website through a server like this? instead of going through a hosting service? i want to make sure i learn the proper way of doing things
09:26 < elichai2> (this lines get's created when I plug and unplug the C dock)
09:27 < MrElendig> acresearch: read up in wsgi servers, cherrypy, gunicorn, uwsgi are all good choices
09:27 < MrElendig> tls >= 1.2 even
09:27 < acresearch> MrElendig: ok
09:28 < ||JD||> acresearch: I don't have any suggestion, just google it and ask about what you aren't sure
09:28 < MrElendig> acresearch: or even the paste server
09:28 < acresearch> ||JD||: ok  :-)
09:28 < Rembo> MrElendig: https://hastebin.com/jadaxogiji.md
09:28 < MrElendig> or waitress if you feel brave
09:29 < elichai2> Any ideas?
09:29 < wadadli> virsh console $domain hangs, and only outputs tty if the I reset the domain and immediately run virsh console. it then waits for a bit and outputs the login prompt
09:29 < MrElendig> acresearch: http://docs.python-guide.org/en/latest/scenarios/web/#wsgi-servers
09:29 < wadadli> also I am unable to dettach from the console and reattach as it'll just hang without doing the steps above
09:29 < wadadli> I have enabled getty-serial@ttyS0.service and also added console=ttyS0 to the kernel boot params of the guest. Is there something I'm not aware of?
09:30 < MrElendig> acresearch: sidnote: use python 3
09:35 < MrElendig> Rembo: behind some capture portal?
09:36 < MrElendig> you are doing https://theurls ?
09:37 < MrElendig> post curl --version too
09:38 < MrElendig> tls 1.2 seems to work for the url you posted
09:45 < tomty89`>  /quit
09:52 < pabed_> hi , when I want to restart network I encounter to https://paste.linux.community/view/49ca78e7
09:53 < pabed_> my network config https://paste.linux.community/view/da9038b4
09:55 < MrElendig> I would go to #<yourdistro> since that is some distro invented script
09:56 < MrElendig> also journalctl -b -u network
10:06 < Whoroo> just testink
10:07 < blackwidow9> any one line intuitive explaination to differentiate between user mode and kernel mode? resources say its just the restrictions on hardware that varies in the two modes. true?
10:08 < blackwidow9> Ive read about the CPU rings 0 and 3 too , but does anyone know a generic workflow? like when CPU switches into the either modes?
10:09 < varliberate> Hello!
10:11 < paulcarroty> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gjs/blob/gnome-3-28/NEWS
10:12 < paulcarroty> new gjs, light RAM and performance fix
10:13 < gnulligan> hey I'm going through the gentoo handbook while trying to install hardened musl flavor
10:13 < gnulligan> where is the equivalent section to "emerge -uvNDq world"?
10:13 < gnulligan> nowhere in the handbook does it mention that command even though it says it's required in http://distfiles.gentoo.org/experimental/amd64/musl/HOWTO
10:13 < gnulligan> and #gentoo is dead lol
10:17 < varliberate> that's better: set irc_conf_mode on
10:18 < varliberate> otherwise this chan is all leave/join messages
10:20 < repys> is it possible to copy from one source and copy to another destination server with 1 command using scp?
10:21 < varliberate> maybe using pipe
10:21 < varliberate> scp blah blah | scp more more
10:21 < milpool> it will still go through your host then
10:21 < milpool> back in the day, we used fxp for that ;)
10:22 < varliberate> ssh jumphost `scp fromhost tohost'
10:22 < varliberate> where *host are your machines of course
10:22 < geirha> scp fromhost:file tohost:    works, but the file will go from fromhost directly to tohost, not via the host you run it from
10:22 < repys> server1 <- mylaptop -> server2
10:23 < repys> from mylaptop I have to copy from server1 to server2
10:23 < varliberate> ssh server1 `scp file server2`
10:23 < geirha> that's nonsense, varliberate
10:24 < varliberate> no it's not
10:24 < varliberate> ssh to server1 and initiate a command to scp the file to server2
10:24 < geirha> `` is command substitution
10:24 < geirha> that's what scp already does
10:24 < varliberate> oh ' then whatever
10:24 < repys> server1 and server2 are isolated
10:25 < repys> I can reach server1 and server2 only from mylaptop
10:25 < Emil> modern scps have -3
10:25 < Emil> do you even use a search engine? :D
10:25 < Emil> https://superuser.com/questions/686394/scp-between-two-remote-hosts-from-my-third-pc
10:25 < repys> I can copy the file from server1 to mylaptop and after copy it from mylaptop to server2, but I wanted to know if there is something quicker?
10:25 < varliberate> not if the servers don't talk to each other ;)
10:25 < Emil> scp -3 user1@remote1:/home/user1/file1.txt user2@remote2:/home/user2/file1.txt
10:26 < varliberate> nice
10:26 < varliberate> that does still copy to the laptop though doesn't it, but at least it's one command
10:26 < Emil> sure
10:26 < varliberate> very nice though
10:26 < Emil> but if the premise is that the link only exists from the laptop
10:26 < Emil> it must be used
10:26 < varliberate> agreed
10:27 < geirha> presumably it'll just pipe it between the hosts and not actually store anything locally
10:27 < Emil> yeah
10:27 < Emil> but read the so link above
10:27 < varliberate> so it will probably be quicker, if it can stream in and out at the same time
10:27 < Emil> it has important info
10:28 < Emil> varliberate: your first command is also unnecessary: the naive scp does the ssh for you
10:28 < Emil> that is
10:28 < gnulligan> hey I'm going through the gentoo handbook while trying to install hardened musl flavor
10:28 < Emil> scp user1@remote1:/home/user1/file1.txt user2@remote2:/home/user2/file1.txt
10:28 < Emil> works
10:28 < gnulligan> where is the equivalent section to "emerge -uvNDq world"?
10:28 < gnulligan> nowhere in the handbook does it mention that command even though it says it's required in http://distfiles.gentoo.org/experimental/amd64/musl/HOWTO
10:28 < Emil> but it opens scp from remote1 to remote2
10:28 < varliberate> Emil neat
10:29 < varliberate> actually yeah I did know that, like ten years ago lol -  been a while since I've needed it
10:29 < peetaur2> gnulligan: this is an acceptable place for such a question, but for help with tools that are specific to one distro, you really should try that distro's channel
10:30 < varliberate> Emil I'm not here to read manuals for people, just to offer concepts ;)
10:30 < peetaur2> and not sure if that means the gentoo channel or not... maybe they can explain what that emerge command does, but finding an equivalent on some other distro would not be a question for them
10:31 < Emil> varliberate: heh, good point
10:31 < varliberate> ;D
10:31 < varliberate> emerge is kind of like yum or apt, but it also compiles - in a sentence
10:32 < varliberate> it gets you programs - but with gentoo everything is compiled for that system with flags you can set, so it needs to do a little more than a binary installer does.
10:32 < Rembo> MrElendig: https://hastebin.com/paralukayi.pl
10:32 < peetaur2> with that analogy, then the answer for arch based would be pacstrap like   pacstrap /mnt base    (where base is equivalent to world I guess) https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/User:Soloturn/Quick_Installation_guide_UEFI
10:33 < Emil> emerge is a way to turn your computer into a jet fan heating machine
10:33 < varliberate> indeed lol
10:33 < peetaur2> Emil: :)
10:33 < varliberate> a great way to spend the weekend watching X11 and office compile
10:34 < peetaur2> and on arch to literally compile things, you use makepkg rather than pacstrap (pacstrap just pulls multiple packages from a repo and installs them to an alternate dir instead of the running system)
10:34 < MrElendig> such old openssl
10:50 < JackMa> hello, tmux new-session -d python file.py  <— i did it 50 times, when i type ‘htop’, there is a pid of tmux new-session, and it have many python file.py. so if i want kill all process, i just kill pid of tmux new-session?
10:51 < JackMa> No one is here?
10:52 < DLange> many are, but you could just try and answer the question yourself
10:52 < JackMa> DLange: me?
10:52 < DLange> yes, you
10:53 < kopper> JackMa: He meant that try and kill the PID and see for yourself
10:54 < JackMa> :|
10:54 < amelliaa> Ayy problem solving :3
10:54 < amelliaa> ma doggy
11:15 < interrobangd> hello, can someone say what "m" mean? i.e. "CONFIG_PSTORE_RAM=m"?
11:15 < interrobangd> m = module?
11:16 < hexnewbie> interrobangd: Yes
11:17 < interrobangd> ok
11:30 < linuxconformer> can i mount a "disk" type volume?
11:34 < Psi-Jack> What's a "disk" type volume?
11:34 < djph> Psi-Jack: mathematically, or ...?
11:35 < Psi-Jack> Whatever linuxconformer is referring to, described better. heh
11:35 < djph> Psi-Jack: oh, because mathematically, it's 0.  Yay for drawing a disk on a coordinate plane :)
11:36 < Psi-Jack> Not even sure what you're referring to. heh
11:37 < Psi-Jack> Course, I woke up late yesterday (like 1pm), so I could stay up late tonight (almost 6am), to do a live production server deployment. Fun times.
11:38 < j0seph> Psi-Jack: Quickly, fill it with random bits
11:38 < j0seph> They'll never see it coming
11:38 < Psi-Jack> Wait, I gotta partition the outermost rings of the disk for the fastest data access portions.
11:38 < Psi-Jack> LOL
11:39 < j0seph> Psi-Jack: Ditch the bootloader, you won't need it
11:41 < djph> Psi-Jack: a poor attempt at a maths joke. 2-dimensional coordinate planes are defined as having 0 thickness.
11:41 < Psi-Jack> Ahhhhh
11:43  * Sauvin snickers
11:45 < j0seph> Sauvin: You're not you when you're hungry
11:47 < Sauvin> I am, in fact, munching on some Ho Hos as we speak.
11:47 < linuxconformer> Psi-Jack: so i've attached a vps volume to my vps instance
11:47 < linuxconformer> and in lsblk it lists it as type "disk"
11:47 < Psi-Jack> Excessive bling words detected.
11:47 < j0seph> Sauvin: Ho Hos? Is that a cereal?
11:47 < j0seph> Oh, no, it's a chocolate cream roll of sorts.
11:47 < Psi-Jack> linuxconformer: OKay. Yes. /dev/sdX would be a disk. Does said disk have partitions?
11:48 < linuxconformer> Psi-Jack: and i get "mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/vdb,        missing codepage or helper program, or other error" when trying to mount
11:48 < linuxconformer> Psi-Jack: possibly not
11:48 < Psi-Jack> linuxconformer: Then obviously, it's an empty disk with no filesystem and no partition table.
11:48 < CuriousMind> I know this is off topic, but can someone please help me run a telnet server on my mac book?
11:49 < Psi-Jack> CuriousMind: Quite right. Very off topic.
11:49 < CuriousMind> It's for a project I am doing. I was told to use netcat
11:49 < epicmetal> CuriousMind: /j #apple
11:49 < CuriousMind> epicmetal: thanks
11:49 < linuxconformer> Psi-Jack: thanks
11:49 < Sauvin> Or ##macosx
11:49 < CuriousMind> Sauvin: Ok thanks
11:51 < Psi-Jack> Well, here's to hoping that salt upgrades don't break on minor point releases as much as they did in the past. LOL
11:52 < Psi-Jack> Been doing a lot of salt this weekend, ramping myself back up on it since I hadn't used it in years.
11:52 < j0seph> Psi-Jack: i'm not familiar with salt, what is it? distro-specific?
11:52 < Psi-Jack> j0seph: salt is configuration management, like chef, puppet, ansible, etc
11:53 < j0seph> ahh
11:53 < Bunk> hello
11:53 < j0seph> thank you for talking about the technical term and not sodium chloride hahaha
11:53 < Psi-Jack> With, more recently, some form of orchestration capabilities as well.
11:53 < Psi-Jack> Well, you see, salt is also sodium chloride, and bad for people with high blood pressure. :)
11:54 < j0seph> Psi-Jack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbBgx0BEuuI
11:54 < Psi-Jack> heh
11:54 < Sauvin> I also seem to recall that some telecommunications programs (QModem, Telix, Telemate, etc) back in the day used a scripting language called "salt".
11:55 < j0seph> Sauvin: It is also what powers quite a lot of online communities.
11:55  * Sauvin will take that one with a large grain
11:55  * j0seph winks
11:56 < turkeyhand> what's a pdf creator
11:56 < turkeyhand> for linux
11:56 < j0seph> turkeyhand: it creates pdfs
11:56 < turkeyhand> I need the name of a pdf creator for linux
11:56 < Psi-Jack> turkeyhand: PHP
11:56 < Psi-Jack> It can do it.
11:56 < turkeyhand> an application with a GUI
11:57 < Psi-Jack> What are you reaaaaally looking for?
11:57 < turkeyhand> I think I just gave all the information
11:57 < Bunk> libre has a convert button for pdf @ turkeyhand
11:57 < turkeyhand> libre writer?
11:57 < Bunk> yes
11:57 < Psi-Jack> You can print to pdf if just about anything.
11:57 < turkeyhand> I use that and I didn't find it
11:58 < turkeyhand> I'm using arch, do I need something that I don't have installed maybe?
11:58 < Bunk> there is a button by default. Or maybe there is an export option
11:58 < turkeyhand> I"ll check again
11:58 < Bunk> I dunno arch
11:58 < Psi-Jack> Bunk: Export would be more likely.
11:58 < Psi-Jack> PDF is generally a "final" format.
11:58 < turkeyhand> yeah
11:58 < cluelessperson> turkeyhand: Master PDF Editor
11:58 < cluelessperson> Adobe PDF Writer
11:59 < Bunk> or export button, yes Psi-Jack  I think, there is one
11:59 < j0seph> I'm using arch also. It would install the necessary dependencies.
11:59 < j0seph> http://www.linuxandubuntu.com/home/5-best-linux-pdf-editors
11:59 < j0seph> Here, quick google search.
11:59 < j0seph> It's like a buffet. Go wild
11:59 < Psi-Jack> Just depends on what you really want. A PDF print of static content, or something that can create, say for example, PDF forms.
12:00 < Psi-Jack> Hence, what do you /reaaaally/ want. :)
12:00 < j0seph> Psi-Jack: Seeing as they're speaking in layman terms, I would assume they'd want it aaaalllll
12:01 < Psi-Jack> I assume nothing. Makes an ass/u/me ;)
12:01 < Bunk> j0seph: All you can load LOL
12:01 < andrei-n_> Why do people use line debuggers but not line editors
12:02 < Psi-Jack> Why is the sky blue?
12:02 < Sauvin> Because line EDITORS are a pain in the ass.
12:02 < j0seph> Bunk: Silicon Valley-style all you can load buffet
12:02 < j0seph> Ahaha
12:02 < Sauvin> And neck, and fingers, and many other parts attached, too.
12:02 < andrei-n_> Sauvin, What about line debuggers?  Isn't it even worse?
12:02 < j0seph> Psi-Jack: True, but one can't be blamed for taking things at face value in situations like these :)
12:03 < Psi-Jack> j0seph: Well, you called it. I blame everything on you then. :)
12:04 < Rembo> MrElendig: what shall i do to fix?
12:04 < j0seph> Psi-Jack: Only blame me when something goes wrong!
12:04 < Psi-Jack> Woopps.. Too late. hehe
12:06 < j0seph> Psi-Jack: If they give you vague descriptions, give vague answers. When they complain, call them out, and they won't do it again. :)
12:06 < Psi-Jack> From experience, that's usually ever accurate. heh
12:08 < j0seph> Psi-Jack: Then you're dealing with stupid people, and there's no working with them in any instance anyway. :P
12:08 < Psi-Jack> Welcome to... Well you know where you are. hehe
12:09 < j0seph> Psi-Jack: Yes, IRC as a whole. :)
12:11 < Psi-Jack> Eggggsnactly.
12:13 < Gurkenglas> There was a command to remote onto another machine, that looked something like uttfs, what
12:14 < Gurkenglas> *was its name?
12:14 < cluelessperson> Gurkenglas: remote using what protocol?
12:14 < Psi-Jack> ssh?
12:14 < cluelessperson> most common is ssh
12:14 < seni> does one have to create a partition after formatting a disk?
12:14 < j0seph> VCN?
12:14 < Gurkenglas> not ssh. I dont know the protocol name. The command was maybe something like mftts?
12:15 < j0seph> VNC**
12:15 < Bunk> did anyone has problem with the LXDE Xfce panels ?
12:16 < turkeyhand> I installed arch and overwrote the boot sector for windows
12:16 < Gurkenglas> The name was surprisingly not one of the titles on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_remote_desktop_software
12:17 < turkeyhand> but I really need to be able to boot windows 10, it's grub 2.02, how do I either repair the windows installation or modify grub to include windows?
12:17 < turkeyhand> or both?
12:17 < Gurkenglas> Ah, it was uttsc.
12:18 < BluesKaj> Hi folks
12:21 < djph> turkeyhand: both win and *nix are installed on the box?
12:21 < djph> unless you formatted away the windows partition, [sudo] update-grub should find it
12:23 < Duality> hi
12:29 < babano> alright alright
12:29 < babano> finally registered
12:30 < babano> Thank your for having this noob here
12:34 < varliberate> thanks for coming ;)
12:35 < varliberate> gee it's strange operating in irc_conf_mode, makes it seem kind of intense
12:44 < varliberate> rah
12:46  * epicmetal watches varliberate get taken down by velociraptors
12:50 < varliberate> !*
12:50 < varliberate> (bang splat :) )
12:54 < stevendale> Hi
12:55 < varliberate> greetings!
12:55 < Cuby96> hi
12:57 < Cuby96> hi there i am having a problem configuring 3d acceleration in my virtual machine on vmware, my OS is ubuntu 18.04 and my virtual machine is windows 7 and under dxdiag it is still listed as not avaiable, i already installed vmware tools and i tried to add the flags mks.enable3d = "TRUE" but it didnt worked
13:00 < stevendale> Have you tried restarting your computer Cuby96
13:00 < Cuby96> yes
13:02 < notmike> Try again
13:03 < notmike> True should not be in parentheses
13:07 < jim> tr()ue <-- should parentheses be in true?
13:08 < stevendale> OwO
13:08 < jim> oh I see what you mean, some languages have actuall values that are spelled out like True and False
13:09 < kuri0> how can I make a folder appear different for non-root users
13:09 < kuri0> or users part of a group
13:10 < Sauvin> Appear in what?
13:10 < rumpel> kuri0, "appear different" = different color?
13:10 < kuri0> rumpel, the contents
13:10 < rumpel> kuri0, in what way?
13:11 < kuri0> rumpel, i want /usr/bin to be a symlink to the users ~/.local/bin
13:11 < rumpel> kuri0, sounds like a bad idea
13:11 < kuri0> rumpel, actually merge the contents
13:11 < kuri0> not replace
13:11 < rumpel> kuri0, why?
13:12 < mawk> lol jim
13:12 < kuri0> i just want programs to act like its in /usr/bin//
13:12 < rumpel> kuri0, I mean: why so complicated? what would you gain from symlinking?
13:12 < linuxconformer> why can i not mount /dev/sdb1 to /mnt/store?
13:12 < rumpel> kuri0, why not just put it in /usr/bin?
13:12 < mawk> why on earth do you want that kuri0 ?
13:12 < mawk> it's possible, but I'll give you the solution if you give me a good reason
13:12 < Sitri> linuxconformer: what's the error?
13:12 < kuri0> writing a rootless package manager
13:13 < mawk> why not modifying PATH then ?
13:13 < linuxconformer> Sitri: "mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sdb1, missing codepage or helper program, or other error"
13:13 < kuri0> mawk, some programs hardcode /usr/bin/
13:13 < mawk> the solution requires root anyway
13:13 < kuri0> i know
13:13 < Sitri> linuxconformer: is the partition formatted?  What FS?
13:13 < kuri0> i can use root to set it up but i want to be able to use it rootless after
13:13 < mawk> so you want to install programs in /usr/bin, and in reality make them move to ~/.local/bin ?
13:13 < kuri0> opposite
13:14 < linuxconformer> Sitri: Linux Filesystem
13:14 < kuri0> install them to ~/.local/bin and make them appear in /usr/bin
13:14 < stevendale> He wants to install programs into ~/.local/bin and symlink into /usr/bin without root
13:14 < stevendale> Which isn't possible
13:14 < stevendale> Without chowning /usr/bin
13:14 < linuxconformer> Sitri: all i did was open up gdisk, run "n", follow all the defaults, write and exit
13:14 < kuri0> i think its some user mounts or something
13:14 < stevendale> Which is a *BAD* idea
13:14 < linuxconformer> Sitri: not sure if that's enough though
13:14 < kuri0> i think theres a way to show a different folder for each user
13:14 < Sitri> linuxconformer: So... ext2, ext3, ext4, btrfs, xfs, reiserfs, or what?
13:14 < mawk> well using root initally you can make an overlay of ~/.local/bin over /usr/bin
13:14 < jim> it's at least an idea that should be looked at
13:14 < Sitri> Oh
13:14 < linuxconformer> Sitri: er not sure, how can i tell?
13:15 < mawk> the folder shown will be different inside that session
13:15 < Sitri> Yeah it's not formatted, you have to run mkfs
13:15 < linuxconformer> ah thanks
13:15 < mawk> you need to create a new mount namespace, then mount your overlay over /usr/bin
13:15 < mawk> then drop root rights after that
13:15 < kuri0> yeah ill try that
13:16 < mawk> or you can simply bind-mount over /usr/bin but it won't be a nice merging
13:16 < mawk> just a replacement
13:16 < kekmeizter> Anyone here familiar with rsyslog and how i can extract a part of the logentry that is "severity"?
13:16 < stevendale> Keep in mind... packages put stuff in /etc, /usr/share, /usr/lib, /lib too
13:16 < mawk> kuri0: from bash it's a couple lines
13:16 < stevendale> And in rare cases (for login shells, etc) /bin
13:17 < mawk> unshare, then mount
13:17 < stevendale> Or /sbin
13:18 < mawk> upper directory will be ~/.local/bin, merged directory will be /usr/bin, lower directory will be /usr/bin
13:18 < mawk> the fact that merged = upper will maybe make some problems, you'll maybe need an extra step like making merged ~/.my_super_merged_directory and bind-mounting it over /usr/bin afterwards
13:20 < kuri0> mawk, how would i make this script get automaticly executed for when the user logs in ?
13:21 < mawk> dunno
13:21 < mawk> maybe using PAM
13:24 < plexigras> how can i clear the line so i can have `echo "waiting..." && sleep 5 && clear-line` only show for 5 seconds?
13:24 < mawk> using terminal control codes
13:24 < mawk> let me see
13:25 < mawk> man 4 console_codes
13:25 < plexigras> oh i think i found it
13:26 < mawk> \033[2K\033[1`
13:26 < mawk> that should work
13:29 < mawk> the \033[1` trick doesn't look like it's working
13:29 < mawk> find something else to get the cursor back to column 1
13:29 < mawk> but you get the idea
13:29 < mawk> in raw mode you'd do \n
13:31 < mawk> you can instead save the cursor position, and pop it after the clean
13:34 < Minnebo> whm
13:34 < plexigras> printf "\033[2K\033[1" kinda works but it messe up my prompt
13:36 < mawk> plexigras: printf '\033[s'; echo -n salut; sleep 2; printf '\033[2K\033[u'; echo jsdoifjosdi; sleep 2
13:36 < mawk> what ?
13:36 < mawk> \033[1 isn't a valid command
13:36 < jim> does it straighten out when you press enter a couple times?
13:36 < mawk> of course it messes up your prompt
13:36 < mawk> plexigras: the core idea is that: printf '\033[s'; echo -n salut; sleep 2; printf '\033[2K\033[u'
13:36 < manticorpus> Hi, I got two question about kernel index (of network interface). First one : What is the maximum value ? And what will appends when this value is reached ? Second one : Can we configure this maximum value ?
13:37 < mawk> first part to save the cursor position, then you echo without \n and you sleep, then you clear the line and pop the position
13:37 < interrobangd> hello, i am using pstore for debuging. how to delete the efi store?
13:37 < jim> manticorpus, with the first question, do you mean "how many interfaces can I have"?
13:38 < interrobangd> rm -rf /sys/fs/pstore/* dont work / dont delete the NVRAM
13:38 < manticorpus> jim: Not exactly, I have some PPP connection and sometimes the signal is not good. Each times PPPD restart, the kernel index is updated.
13:38 < mawk> I guess it loops around manticorpus
13:38 < mawk> like PIDs
13:39 < manticorpus> mawk: I have the same expectation, but I can't found any source for this information
13:39 < mawk> let me search
13:39 < jim> manticorpus, so your question is "how far until I can't do pppd again"
13:40 < manticorpus> mawk: As this is a embedded system, I will have a better sleep, if I am sure the system will loop ;)
13:40 < manticorpus> jim: Yes, and second point, I match the kernel index into a int I want to be sure that will not overflow
13:41 < jim> so you want to know the range of that value so you can pick the right size for the int
13:41 < manticorpus> jim : Exactly
13:42 < HelloFriend> Do i need double quotes when calling a variable, I have two variables that hold directory names and i want to do a copy. I see online that some user double quotes around the variable, is this needed? eg ---  cp $var1 $var2 or cp "$var1" "$var2"
13:43 < mawk> let's look at the very source, manticorpus
13:43 < mawk> the RTM_NEWLINK message type for rtnetlink sockets
13:43 < jim> HelloFriend, I would imagine in many cases you wouldn't need quotes... but you do, if there are spaces in the filenames
13:43 < hexnewbie> HelloFriend: Not using double quotes in this case can lead to problems, and security holes, and won't work if spaces are in filenames. You also should prefix with -- to end the option list, to deal with variable contents beginning with a dash: cp -- "$var1" "$var2"
13:44 < mawk> the index is an int by the way manticorpus
13:44 < mawk> but that doesn't mean the maximum index is 2^31-1
13:44 < jim> any idea what the max index is?
13:45 < mawk> it's likely a define in some header of the kernel
13:45 < mawk> but grepping for ifindex returns 4839478390843098409384039 results
13:45 < HelloFriend> so i thought double quotes were only needed when decalring something with spaces
13:45 < mawk> so I'll read the code instead
13:45 < jim> datz alot
13:45 < mawk> it's a fake number
13:45 < manticorpus> mawk : mhhh ;) yea kernel index is a very bad match for search
13:46 < mouses> just grep " " * :)
13:46 < jim> the only fake number I know of is sqrt(-1)
13:46 < mawk> that's an ill-defined number
13:46 < mawk> two numbers satisfy it
13:47 < hexnewbie> Three. i,j,k such that i^2 = j^2 = k^2 = ijk = -1 ;p
13:47 < mawk> lol
13:47 < hexnewbie> Oh, and of course, i ≠ j ≠ k, which is essential
13:48  * mouses 's brain explodes
13:48 < mawk> let's go further
13:48 < mawk> i² = j² = k² = l² = (il)² = (jl)² = (kl)² = -1
13:49 < noodlepie> I can progrma a mandelbrot from scratch in python!
13:49 < KekSi> are those squares?
13:50 < jim> I dunno what I'd expect from scratchin a python
13:50 < mawk> hexnewbie numbers are quaternions, mine are octonions
13:50 < hexnewbie> mawk: I'm not 100% sure if that's well-defined. And going further will probably be with 7 numbers, like for octonions, not 4 ;p
13:50 < hexnewbie> ah
13:50 < hexnewbie> I never read the whole definition of octinions.
13:51 < mawk> you could assign other letters to that il jl kl, but it boils down to il jl kl
13:51 < jim> I've inspired the math people here :)
13:52 < stevendale> My fist + Your face = You unconscious
13:52 < stevendale> See, maths is simple :)
13:52 < hexnewbie> Yeah, I didn't realise  you could represent them with 4 letters. You just blew my mind, as I had only seen the Wikipedia definition (and I actually read the formula there for the first time).
13:52 < mawk> lol
13:52 < manticorpus> mawk : Thanks for the help, I will dig into netfilter to be sure about this.
13:52 < jim> stevendale, now now, no need to get hostile :)
13:53 < mawk> it's not netfilter manticorpus , just netlink
13:53 < mawk> rtnetlink to be precise
13:53 < manticorpus> mawk: Oh my bad thanks
13:53 < mawk> in net/core/rtnetlink.c
13:53 < stevendale> Ubuntu Precise is EOL mawk
13:53 < stevendale> :P
13:53 < stevendale> Nobody wants to be precise anymore
13:54 < jim> precisely
13:56  * ||JD|| DCC stevendale bing_bar_installer.exe
13:56 < mawk> but nobody is interested in this hexnewbie, you lose associativity
13:56 < stevendale> No thanks ||JD||
13:57 < mawk> quartenions are still useful as their non-commutativity can be matched to the non-commutativity of 3D rotations
13:57 < stevendale> I can get that file myself tyvm
13:57 < hexnewbie> mawk: Meh, I'm suddenly having déjà vus as I'm certainly sure the boring teacher who taught us quaternions mentioned  i,j,k,l,il,jl,kl as the base for octonions, I just slept through the class
13:57 < mawk> but to go in higher dimensions you've got clifford algebras
13:57 < mawk> or you can look at evil twins, like split complex numbers
13:57 < noodlepie> Fagenbaum darling!
13:58 < mawk> lol hexnewbie
13:58 < ||JD||> stevendale: lol, I hope you don't ;)
13:59 < hexnewbie> Also algebra was on Tuesday, and I used to sleep 3 hours on Tuesdays.
14:00 < mawk> I had luck that mathematics was on afternoons, I was always sleeping until noon
14:00 < mawk> so I aced every maths classes, but failed miserabily in every other class
14:00 < mawk> except programming which I already knew beforehand
14:00 < HelloFriend> doing this doesn't work it says can't stat "r" both varaibles are directories --- cp -r $let $prop
14:01 < Rembo> hello everyone, i'm getting this on my debian 9 server: curl: (35) error:140770FC:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:unknown protocol    can someonehelp?
14:01 < mawk> on just a particular server ?
14:01 < mawk> or for every https link
14:02 < Rembo> mawk, i my own server, the rest of servers are working fine
14:02 < noodlepie> curl don't do ssl?
14:02 < noodlepie> https
14:02 < hexnewbie> Rembo: Yeah, stop using SSL 2, 3 and TLS 1.0 and 1.1. Upgrade the remote to TLS 1.2.
14:04 < Rembo> hexnewbie: how can i upgrade to tls 1.2 on debian 9?
14:05 < hexnewbie> Rembo: Possibly just build a new certificate and disable SSL2/3 and TLS 1.0 and 1.1 (*or whichever versions were recommended for disabling)
14:05 < hexnewbie> Depends on what software that is
14:06 < djph> "your own server" ... what server - tomkat, apache, something else?
14:08 < dbpq> Rembo: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/21619468/curl-returns-unknown-protocol
14:09 < revel> hexnewbie: But 3 > 1.1, so keep SSLv3 :D
14:09 < hexnewbie> Oh, yeah, that SO link highlights one of the other reasons OpenSSL sucks. I often can't wrap my head around its API, command line *and* error messages.
14:09 < djph> revel: I hate you on so many levels right now.
14:10 < revel> djph: Yeah, yeah, I know, TLS > SSL
14:11 < dannylee> ...
14:11 < hexnewbie> revel: At least they preserved proper lexicographical order when renaming the standard!
14:12 < revel> hexnewbie: They whuh?
14:12 < djph> revel: "S" comes before "T" .
14:13 < revel> Ah, alphabetical order.
14:13 < mawk> found anything manticorpus ?
14:13 < mawk> or you want me to look
14:13 < mawk> the starting point is static int rtnl_newlink(struct sk_buff *skb, struct nlmsghdr *nlh, struct netlink_ext_ack *extack)
14:14 < mawk> in the file I mentionned
14:14 < manticorpus> mawk : I see everywhere the value is a int
14:14 < mawk> yes the value is int
14:14 < mawk> but it doesn't mean the max is 2^31-1
14:14 < manticorpus> mawk: After that, I haven't see the source of the attribution
14:27 < kekmeizter> Anyone knows what my syslog logentries need to look like to make rsyslog pickup on the severity?
14:27 < adsc> is there a way to get intervalled netstat -s output? like ever 5 seconds or so instead of a total since boot?
14:28 < adsc> or any other simple way to show network usage?
14:28 < ananke> adsc: define 'network usage'
14:28 < adsc> bytes sent and received
14:28 < ananke> adsc: iftop
14:28 < adsc> not installed
14:28 < ananke> adsc: so install it
14:29 < adsc> can't
14:29 < ananke> good luck then
14:29 < adsc> thanks
14:29 < Squall5668> try watch netstat
14:30 < manticorpus> mawk : finally found : net/core/dev.c
14:30 < mawk> yes I'm in this file manticorpus
14:30 < mawk> you found the value ?
14:30 < manticorpus> mawk : this is a loop with a check when negative value of int
14:31 < mawk> something I can grep ?
14:31 < manticorpus> mawk : The check is done when next value is < 0
14:31 < manticorpus> static int dev_new_index(struct net *net).
14:31 < mawk> nice
14:31 < manticorpus> adsl : ifconfig who you this informations
14:32 < noodlepie> Linux package manager are so convenient. I might try GUIX-SD for a laugh. It works on Gentoo also! @:P-~
14:32 < mawk> so the max value is indeed 2^31-1 manticorpus
14:32 < mawk> 0x7FFFFFFF
14:32 < Steinsplitter> anyone here ever used hurricane electrics IPV6 tunnel?
14:34 < manticorpus> adsc : Other solution is cat /proc/net/dev
14:35 < manticorpus> mawk : Now I need a solution to fix my last fail. I have map the kernel index into a byte... ;)
14:35 < mawk> lol
14:36 < ananke> manticorpus: except he wants a count from given point of time, not from day 0
14:37 < mawk> INT_MAX from <limits.h>
14:38 < manticorpus> ananke: I do the same with a RRD in my app that's working fine.
14:38 < manticorpus> ananke: But that's need some work and a database
14:39 < mawk> you'd poll /proc/net/dev to compute a rate of change
14:39 < mawk> a plain maths problem
14:39 < manticorpus> ananke: Or simply do the request every X seconds and check diff
14:39 < ananke> manticorpus: certainly. just pointing out the difference between what you suggest, versus what he wants. there's a gap
14:39 < TwistedFate> hello everyone, can someone please recommend me a good program like M$ paint or paint.net?
14:40 < jim> TwistedFate, gimp? inkscape?
14:40 < manticorpus> ananke: Yea, you rights. But as I know there is no native command who is compliant with he's need
14:40 < Falpha> Hello.  I recently tried to change my linux password (successfully?)...
14:40 < TwistedFate> jim: gimp is too complicated
14:41 < TwistedFate> i have never used einkscape i think
14:41 < Falpha> But I think the user I changed it for is different from myself?
14:41 < jim> dia? (an old one:) xfig
14:41 < ananke> manticorpus: indeed. that's why I was recommending another tool
14:41 < Falpha> All I did was type psswd
14:41 < Falpha> but my username is Falpha
14:41 < rypervenche> Falpha: You can find out. Did you run this with sudo or did you simply run "passwd" as a certain user?
14:41 < adsc> manticorpus: thanks, but that also seems to be a total since boot
14:42 < jim> TwistedFate, maybe one reason is gimp can be scripted
14:42 < manticorpus> adsl : What is the precision you need ?
14:42 < Falpha> I did the sudo commands laeding up to psswd
14:42 < TwistedFate> jim: i'm installing inkscape right now, thank you! :)
14:42 < rypervenche> Falpha: So you ran "sudo passwd" as your Falpha user then?
14:42 < rypervenche> Falpha: If you type "history" as your Falpha user, you can see the exact commands that you ran.
14:42 < Falpha> In fact, I'm not sure.  I had to boot into recovery mode or something.  I just followed the steps recommended on a website.
14:43 < notmike> Can you bitcoin on Linux?
14:43 < rypervenche> Falpha: Ahhh. You did this in a recovery environment?
14:43 < ananke> notmike: and what does 'to bitcoin' even mean?
14:43 < Falpha> I changed the kernel command in grub2 bootloader.
14:43 < rypervenche> Falpha: Well, regardless, try both "history" and "sudo history" and see if the command you ran is in either of those outputs.
14:43 < notmike> ananke: you don't bitcoin?
14:43 < Falpha> I don't remember what I added to the end, but then I launched and got a terminal
14:43 < jim> inkscape is an object-oriented figure drawing program (maybe similar to macdraw) that uses svg
14:44 < ananke> notmike: you keep using 'to bitcoin' like it's a verb, when it's a noun
14:44 < notmike> Maybe this isn't the right forum
14:44 < jim> you might like it... and... it's not a painting program in the same way gimp and macpaint are
14:44 < notmike> Wow, are you the language police 👮?
14:45 < rypervenche> notmike: We are all the language police here :) Enjoy your stay.
14:45 < ananke> notmike: perhaps it's just you that's unable to form a basic sentence properly
14:46 < jim> ananke, don't be mean please
14:46 < notmike> I swear, between arguing about distro and whether emacs or vi/vim is the second best editor, that's about all we talk about here
14:46 < notmike> Again I'm attacked for presenting new ideas
14:46 < ananke> jim: I was being compared to 'police'
14:46 < notmike> You a op, bro. Embrace it.
14:46 < mawk> it's only an insult if you don't like the police
14:47 < rypervenche> notmike: You are being charged with presenting new ideas.
14:47 < notmike> Right! Feel like I need a lawyer will
14:47 < ananke> I'm an op? that's news to me
14:47 < jim> meetoo
14:47 < notmike> Different kinda op. You're a doctor, Jim!
14:48 < jim> I thought you were the doctor...
14:48 < notmike> Er, jim wasn't the doctor huh?
14:48 < notmike> Right! :0\>
14:48 < jim> isn't there a show called doctor huh?
14:48 < mawk> lol
14:49 < notadeveloper> lol
14:49  * triceratux bitcoins for awhile & lawyers up to defend himself from charges of being pro-vim
14:49 < notmike> Omg notadeveloper are we related!?
14:49 < notadeveloper> i hope not
14:49 < ananke> notmike: point being, you somehow expect people to answer your vague question, which is also made worse by poor grammar
14:49 < notmike> You don't know what's in my head
14:50 < ananke> notmike: so perhaps rather than throwing a hissy fit, you could just elaborate
14:50 < notmike> I didn't anticipate the conversation enduring this long. I actually planned to drive to the gym if that ok
14:51 < ananke> yes, you have our permission
14:51 < notmike> Thanking you!
14:51 < jim> there was a question?
14:51 < ananke> jim: 'if that ok'
14:52 < BluesKaj> why drive to the gym..what's the point of exercising on a machine when you can run or walk somewhere -
14:52 < jim> BluesKaj, there are trainers for one thing
14:52 < notmike> BluesKaj: I hiked 7mi yesterday in the morning and rock climbed for a few hrs. Gotta rest the legs. Today is back/bis
14:53 < BluesKaj> trainers, who needs em
14:57 < jim> I'm not training for the olympics, but my trainer does olympic training (other than me of course)
14:58 < adsc> manticorpus: just trying to see current traffic
14:58 < adsc> manticorpus: in bytes
14:58 < adsc> manticorpus: per any reasonable timeframe
14:59 < manticorpus> adsc: I recommand you to do a simple bash script who do the cat /proc/net/dev two times and check the diff
14:59 < BluesKaj> just playing devil's advocate, jim. Do what youwant, it's your money :-)
14:59 < adsc> manticorpus: hmmm, yeah, could do that I guess, thanks
14:59 < manticorpus> adsc : Depending of you need wait the output or write into a file
14:59 < jim> BluesKaj, it's actually not a bad deal
15:02 < ndsp> What's the best method for doing a backup of my linux build, to include grub and all the UEFI shananigans I just worked through? I'd like to back up and test the backup, although I'd weep if I wasn't able to restore it - arch and all...
15:02 < djph> ndsp: dd the entire drive
15:03 < irwiss> anyone knows if there's a trick to poll the ssh latency from within an ssh session? there's sshping but it seems it creates a new channel and it works from the client rather than on the server, or does ssh protocol have no notion of ping?
15:03 < djph> irwiss: the latter
15:03 < djph> as long as the connection doesn't drop, ssh doesn't care about latency.  You, the meatsack trying to get something done might ... but SSH itself doesn't
15:04 < ndsp> dd over acronis or some other? Maybe I should buy a second HD to test it. The block size thing sort of concerned me.
15:04 < djph> note that there is a timeout (measured in, IIRC, seconds) that ssh uses to determine "dropped connection"
15:05 < djph> ndsp: I nearly always prefer system tools over other solutions.
15:05 < djph> ndsp: I'm not saying I'm right in that assertion, mind you.  That's just me.
15:05 < irwiss> djph: i see, kinda hard to figure out why i have delay on some keystrokes but not others, can't figure out if it has some nagle/buffering issues or just latency/packet loss
15:06 < djph> irwiss: define "some keystrokes"
15:06 < djph> irwiss: I mean, just random "you're typing, and all of a sudden it stops responding; then a few seconds later, everything you typed shows up" type things?
15:07 < noodlepie> ndsp, you can use "dump" or "tar cvf backupfile.tgz /" - or whatever folder you want backing up.
15:07 < noodlepie> "man dump", "man tar" and "man dd" are helpful to you! :P
15:08 < ndsp> <djph>Thanks. I get a little nervous with the testing phase of backup solution. I was leaning towards dd with a small block size.
15:09 < ndsp> <noodlepie> Not so much data as configuration. I want to make sure I can copy it all back on without the configuration struggle. Thank you.
15:09 < irwiss> djph: yep, though "everything" is around 5-6 keystrokes
15:10 < irwiss> and i think delay in the hundreds of millisec rather than seconds... may be i should try this mosh thing
15:10 < djph> irwiss: well, "everything" in my example depends on what that "everything" you typed was.
15:10 < irwiss> but it barely has any native clients :(
15:11 < irwiss> yeah i mean it's not like completely awful, it's just irking a bit when trying to do something interactive
15:12 < noodlepie> Yeah you can unzip the tarball back to write to the disks you have mounted, or "restore" or dd with if and of reversed to write back to disk partition mount!
15:12 < ||JD||> taking suggestions for a decent bug tracking system name
15:12 < djph> irwiss: ssh timeout (keepalive) is something like 30 seconds
15:12 < noodlepie> "restore" is for restoring dumped backups, check you fstab (man fstab) for dump values to select which disk partition are included when you "dump"
15:13 < irwiss> with min 68ms/avg 70ms/75 max and very close to 0% packetloss i'd expect buttery smooth typing but alas...
15:13 < noodlepie> That's the standard Linux way of backing up but you can use the higher tools like tar and dd if you wish.
15:13 < djph> irwiss: or, put another way, SSH sone (default) decide a connection is hung and should be dropped for 30 seconds, if you don't send any data.
15:13 < acresearch> ||JD||: hey so i just setup a new server didcated just for my bots i should not run them as root correct? i should make a user and ssh into that user then run them
15:13 < djph> *SSH won't
15:13 < ndsp> I want all the partitions, since I have the UEFI ESP deal.
15:13 < ndsp> I will read your suggestions though. Thank you!
15:14 < djph> irwiss: you have to consider the host at the other end may be busy as well (ping is well, pretty easy to respond to ... and if you're hitting a router doing NAT, it may well be the router answering rather than the server)
15:14 < mawk> who dared timeout me
15:14 < cow0w> Hello in GNU Screen, how do I  send Sysrq key? to reset a remote stuck system?
15:15 < ||JD||> acresearch: no idea what kind of bots are you running, but you should run anything at root unless you really need it
15:15 < ||JD||> s/should/shouldn't
15:15 < rypervenche> l~N
15:15 < rypervenche> Oops.
15:15 < acresearch> ||JD||: ok
15:15 < ||JD||> s/at/as
15:16 < irwiss> djph: hm i guess busy could be true, it's a pretty weak vm
15:16 < ||JD||> can't f***g type
15:16 < irwiss> i guess i'll just leave it as is i suppose
15:17 < noodlepie> "dump" will do incremental backups too, which you may like.
15:19 < ndsp> Once I have a good image (or whatever we call it here), yes, incremental will be fabulous.
15:20 < mawk> I'm lucky I never typed my unlock password in here; when I see the lock screen I just type it and hit enter, but sometimes the lock delay isn't over so the first key will unlock the screen and the remainder is typed into IRC
15:21 < djph> mawk: we're all waiting for you to do that
15:21 < mawk> :(
15:21 < acresearch> ||JD||: is there a spesific way to add a user/passwd that will allow me to ssh? or just adduser new_username and that is it?
15:22 < djph> mawk: it's okay though, IRC will just make your password look like ******* for us, so we won't know what it is :)
15:22 < mawk> lol
15:22 < wreed> hunter2
15:22 < noodlepie> cow0w, you can run "reset" to do that.
15:22 < noodlepie> @:P-~
15:22 < wreed> doesnt look like stars to me
15:23 < djph> wreed: that's because you typed your password.  But when you typed hunter2, all we saw was 'wreed> *******'
15:24 < djph> acresearch: if your host has sshd running, all (valid) users on the host will have ssh access.
15:24 < acresearch> djph: oh ok
15:26  * peetaur2 ruins all the fun
15:26 < peetaur2> mawk: wreed: your client doesn't mask anything... and these guys are kidding, in case it's not already obvious
15:26 < djph> acresearch: you can, of course limit that.
15:26 < acresearch> djph: how?
15:26 < mawk> let me make a plugin for that
15:26 < djph> acresearch: /etc/ssh/sshd_config
15:26 < wreed> peetaur2 i was meming 'hunter2' is part of the original meme, but thanks for looking out
15:26 < acresearch> djph: dam this is all new to me and a noisy house is not helping me concentrate     1 moment  :-(
15:27 < peetaur2> original meme? pretty sure the original was before the concept of a meme existed
15:27 < djph> and for anyone wanting to read that --> http://bash.org/?244321
15:28 < fofalee> hello
15:28 < fofalee> gcc -l ; what should be the name of the c library for the required option
15:28 < fofalee> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lglibc
15:28 < djph> why're you missing gnu libc ?
15:28 < djph> I mean, that libc-whatever should come as part of build-essential
15:28 < fofalee> I want to *manually* try and see why the error, as glibc is the correct name
15:29 < peetaur2> fofalee: find /usr/lib -name "lib*.so"    without the "lib" or ".so*"
15:29 < fofalee> no I want to use those options
15:29 < djph> of course glibc is the name for ...
15:29 < jim> fofalee, I think you would say -lc
15:31 < acresearch> djph: how do i setup new user/password?   adduser <username>    what about the password for that user?
15:31 < fofalee> peetaur2: cool but ... without the "lib" ?
15:31 < peetaur2> acresearch: I prefer the useradd command... for that you'd get a hash somehow to add in args, or use passwd command after
15:32 < acresearch> peetaur2: hmmm
15:32 < peetaur2> acresearch: useradd -s /bin/bash -m [-p "$hash"] username
15:32 < djph> acresearch: should be part of useradd / adduser
15:32 < mAniAk-_-> acresearch: youll get prompted for it with adduser
15:32 < acresearch> wait let me take notes
15:33 < peetaur2> acresearch: in debian there's a lovely mkpasswd command that comes with the whois package, which supports sha256 and salt like it should
15:33 < djph> e.g. useradd newuser\n // Provide new UNIX Password for newuser: ____\n // Retype password: ____
15:33 < peetaur2> other distros don't include it for some reason...dunno why. Some just include it with a separate package like whois-debian-mkpasswd or something like that
15:33 < acresearch> ok wait let me just take notes so i can learn the process correctly and can replicate it in the future
15:34 < fofalee> -lc worked, but it was not linked..so how did it work
15:35 < peetaur2> if you have no mkpasswd, what I like to do is just make a dummy user, then passwd command on it, then  awk -F: '{print $2}' /etc/shadow  to get the hash, then remove the user
15:35 < fofalee> jim: -lc is not for linking ... is it object code..
15:35 < peetaur2> oops...forgot user name    awk -F: '$1 == "usernamehere" {print $2}' /etc/shadow
15:54 < acresearch> djph: ok so firat i do this: useradd -s /bin/bash -m [-p "$hash"] USERNAME     then i need to setup a password right?
15:57 < notmike> You used bash, that's your first problem
15:57 < notmike> passwd <user>
15:58 < notmike> Then pm me your voice
15:58 < notmike> Choice*
15:59 < MrElendig> acresearch: drop the [-p "$hash"] bit
15:59 < acresearch> MrElendig: oh ok
16:00 < MrElendig> might want to trow in some extra groups too
16:02 < acresearch> MrElendig: what do you mean more users?
16:02 < acresearch> MrElendig: why?
16:02 < MrElendig> acresearch: I would suggest going to get your eyes checked
16:14 < frwlkkaw> hello
16:16 < frwlkkaw> i have a problem with ubuntu 18.04 on virtualbox, its when i open some pages the cpu usage goes up to almost 100% i dont have any gnome shell extension installed, the process that shows using more its gnome-shell
16:17 < frwlkkaw> its funny that on the ubuntu system monitor shows that am using 50% but on the host am using 80%
16:18 < frwlkkaw> i have a i5-7300HQ 2.50Ghz, anyone can help me?
16:19 < manticorpus> frwlkkaw: I don't know if that help, but usage is by processor (if you have 4 core full usage is 400%)
16:20 < irwiss> frwlkkaw: i'd try checking is if renderer is using hardware acceleration
16:20 < frwlkkaw> irwiss: you mean on the virtualbox setting?
16:21 < lroe> Does anyone know how to figure out what kernel (if any) supports nbase-T network cards?  specifically Intel X550T
16:22 < irwiss> frwlkkaw: i mean inside the vm, usually you'd install guest additions to use the host's gpu
16:22 < frwlkkaw> irwiss: yes i have that installed and working correctly i guess
16:25 < frwlkkaw> how come atom.io page uses 70% of cpu
16:26 < frwlkkaw> not good
16:26 < MrElendig> frwlkkaw: define pages
16:26 < MrElendig> if you mean web pages, they are 1. sucking  2. mining bitcoins
16:26 < frwlkkaw> MrElendig: the webpage on firefox
16:27 < MrElendig> umatrix/ublock origin is your friend
16:27 < frwlkkaw> MrElendig: no way its a issue on virtualbox
16:27 < Squall5668> the 1st being more common than the 2nd for now
16:31 < Cuby96> can someone help me with 3d acceleration not working in the virtual machine? i have ubuntu 18.04 as host and windows 7 as VM
16:31 < triceratux> frwlkkaw: thats clearly a gnome3 or vbox thingy. on lxqt 0.12.0 using opera 52.0 atom.io only takes up 55% of the cpu even with javascript turned off rofl
16:31  * triceratux remembers installing that editor once a couple years ago
16:32 < frwlkkaw> triceratux: you mean 55% showing on your ubuntu
16:32 < MrElendig> Cuby96: installed the guest addons?
16:32 < MrElendig> Cuby96: also #vbox
16:32 < frwlkkaw> triceratux: on host machine its showing alot more
16:32 < MrElendig> and ##windows
16:32 < frwlkkaw> triceratux: thats alot of using for a webpage without JS
16:32 < Cuby96> i installed vmware tools
16:33 < MrElendig> Cuby96: are you using vmware?
16:33 < noodlepie> lroe, LCONFIG_IXGBE is in the Linux kernel, perhaps enable its settings and to build the kernel module for that device?
16:33 < Cuby96> yes vmware workstation 14
16:33 < frwlkkaw> if i use only 1 core it uses 100% lol
16:33 < noodlepie> CONFIG_IXGBE even
16:33 < MrElendig> my condolances
16:33 < MrElendig> and you better go call vmware customer support then
16:33 < triceratux> frwlkkaw: well in fact with opera 52.0 open to that page htop shows the browser taking 100% cpu. not good
16:33  * MrElendig tought Cuby96 was using vbox too
16:34 < frwlkkaw> what is the issue? guys
16:34 < MrElendig> triceratux: just like the editor itself
16:34 < frwlkkaw> its gnome shell using alot of cpu
16:34 < triceratux> basically thats just one core. projects like atom is why they invented multicore motherboards
16:34 < MrElendig> frwlkkaw: the web page is behaving just like the editor aparently
16:34 < frwlkkaw> not with the web page
16:34 < frwlkkaw> theres alot more pages that do the same
16:34 < noodlepie> Ah, he's gone. I was going to suggest this... -->> https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/support/articles/000005688/network-and-i-o/ethernet-products.html
16:34 < frwlkkaw> mostly with js involved
16:36  * triceratux closes the atom.io tab to reduce the stress on the fans
16:45 < frwlkkaw> if i open that webpage atom.io on windows it doesnt use anything at all
16:47 < jack_rip_vim> seem like not quite easy to get a datasheet from broadcom Ltd.
16:48 < triceratux> i always assumed atom.io was a thinly veild device to get linux types to migrate back to windows
16:48 < jack_rip_vim> Oh God, why they didn't want to open the datasheet at their office website pages
16:48 < jack_rip_vim> hi triceratux
16:52 < jack_rip_vim> sending a request info to broadcom, hope they answer me soon
16:52 < jack_rip_vim> hope their info@broadcom.com mailbox still alive
16:53 < djph> triceratux: it probably is
17:01 < jml2> jack_rip_vim, ohh ohhh ohhhhh I broked a nail!!
17:01 < jml2> jack_rip_vim, open another spreadsheet!
17:01 < jml2> jack_rip_vim, and be happy!!
17:10 < jack_rip_vim> jml2, thanks!
17:10 < Bru-> mornin folks
17:10 < jack_rip_vim> Hi Bru-
17:11 < Bru-> so linux runs like a dream on these toughbook cf-c1s
17:11 < treefrob> but...
17:11 < jack_rip_vim> Bru-: it should be fine on toughbook
17:11 < Bru-> CF-C2 is garbage out of the box
17:12 < Bru-> mouse and keyboard have issues
17:12 < Bru-> built-in
17:12 < Bru-> as soon as you start typing or moving/clicking, it goes into suspend
17:12 < jack_rip_vim> Bru-: I have an old secondhand thoughbook
17:12 < Bru-> behavior has been the same on multiple cf-c2s
17:13 < Bru-> jack_rip_vim: which model?
17:13 < jack_rip_vim> Bru-: try to remove the Desktop environment
17:13 < jack_rip_vim> Bru-: cf-t8
17:14 < Bru-> jack_rip_vim: i could
17:14 < Bru-> im a linux newb currently so i need to desktop environment
17:14 < Bru-> and i didnt really NEED to get linux on the CF-C2s
17:14 < Bru-> just a bunch of decomm units
17:14 < jack_rip_vim> Bru-: Xubuntu will be good with old cf-c2s
17:15 < Bru-> these cf-c1s are about 8 years old i think.
17:15 < jack_rip_vim> Bru-: or you can try Lubuntu
17:15 < Bru-> jack_rip_vim: hmm i might give those a whirl. thanks for the tip!
17:15 < jack_rip_vim> np
17:17 < jack_rip_vim> jml2, I signed the register pages, hope they can give me an account.
17:18 < absurdistani> Bru-, you may want to try Bodhi Linux or TinyCore
17:18 < absurdistani> or Slitaz
17:19 < jack_rip_vim> absurdistani: he is new on linux, those distros will be hard for him to install
17:19 < jml2> i used to recommend deepin until the cnzzz tracker
17:19 < jml2> :/
17:20 < jml2> for light-weight I think anything with xfce or lxde would do...
17:20 < Bru-> i got a few devices i can mess around with to get comfortable
17:20 < jack_rip_vim> jml2, that is an old computer, Xubuntu or Lubuntu will be fine with the computer
17:20 < Bru-> Currently im just running Mint chocolate
17:21 < jml2> wtf is mint chocolate? never heard of that b4
17:21 < jml2> that another mate spin?
17:24 < jml2> gtg
17:24 < jml2> bb
17:29 < tymczenko> I've encountered a problem while updating my Debian 8... ``` update-initramfs: failed for /boot/initrd.img-3.16.0-6-amd64 with 1. ```
17:30 < tymczenko> it is because my `/boot` partition is too small. it's only 88MB and 65 MB is already used. Is there other way to update kernel?
17:31 < tymczenko> that's another part of log:
17:31 < tymczenko> update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-3.16.0-6-amd64
17:31 < cusco> hello
17:31 < tymczenko> gzip: stdout: No space left on device
17:31 < tymczenko> hi)
17:31 < cusco> can I mount a partition in two different mountpoints at the same time?
17:31 < cusco> I have a failing drive mounted in /home
17:32 < cusco> and I want to copy contents to a new drive
17:32 < lukey_> tymczenko: You could move /boot to your root partition and get rid of the boot partition depending on you setup
17:32 < mattfly> hi
17:32 < tymczenko> lukey_, no chance. ther's only two partitions, and the second is LUKS
17:32 < cusco> but /home has a few dirs like /home/drive2 that other drives mount in
17:32 < jim> hi
17:32 < jack_rip_vim> tymczenko: no space left?
17:32 < jack_rip_vim> hi jim
17:32 < tymczenko> 13MB left in /boot
17:33 < tymczenko> and yes, no space on the drive
17:33 < jim> hi jack
17:33 < MrElendig> cusco: um if it is already mounted, what is the problem?
17:33 < jack_rip_vim> tymczenko: sound fail when update the kernel
17:33 < jack_rip_vim> jim, :)
17:33 < jim> I saw you helping earlier
17:33 < mattfly> is there any smart diff command or tool i can use to compare C/C++ code ? like I want to find a mistake between two diferent source cod efiles that does the same thing but one has more things than the other... i want to match only the "comm lines" (the lines that are almost the same) and not empty lines, or extra lines
17:33 < mattfly> is there anything like that?
17:34 < lukey_> tymczenko: then deleting the old kernel + initrd is the only way...
17:34 < cusco> MrElendig: drive is failing. I need to copy content, but not the content on /home/drive1 and /home/drive2 for instance
17:34 < jack_rip_vim> jim, yeah, I have been here for a while
17:34 < cusco> I've fot a few folders in /home with stuff from other drives
17:34 < lukey_> cusco: the nexclude that
17:34 < MrElendig> cusco: that is trivial to achieve without mounting twice
17:34 < tymczenko> lukey_, so I can just erase all within `/boot` now, when I'm logged in? and run `apt-upgrade`?
17:34 < jim> yeah, I saw you make several decisions in what to recommend
17:34 < cusco> MrElendig: but I need to go over fstab and look at several mountpoints in /home
17:35 < cusco> I wanted to avoid that
17:35 < MrElendig> cusco: no
17:35 < jim> I think you did a good job
17:35 < MrElendig> cusco: cp -ax
17:35 < MrElendig> job done
17:35 < cusco> oh
17:35 < jack_rip_vim> jim, thanks
17:35 < MrElendig> (or rsync)
17:35 < MrElendig> see the man pages for details
17:35 < cusco> rsync -ax too?
17:35 < cusco> looking at -x
17:35 < MrElendig> rsync has different flags
17:35 < mattfly> something like the comm command but with lolerance
17:35 < cusco> got it MrElendig, thanks
17:36 < lukey_> tymczenko: first make an backup (which you probably already have :)
17:37 < tymczenko> lukey_, ok. So it is possible to erase `/boot`, yeah? I just don't understand Linux so deep) Never thought it is ok to do)
17:37 < jack_rip_vim> lukey_: you should think about his limited space
17:38 < lukey_> tymczenko: also debian usually keeps the last (old) kernel version, you can try to remove it first
17:38 < mitescugd>  /part
17:38 < absurdistani> tymczenkom it's not okay to erase /boot if you are using a boot loader instead of efistub
17:39 < jack_rip_vim> lukey_: I think he can use the old kernel to recover the bootloader
17:39 < tymczenko> lukey_, oh yeah I see two files there /boot/initrd.img-3.16.0-5-amd64  /boot/initrd.img-3.16.0-6-amd64
17:39 < absurdistani> generally you will have more than one kernel in /boot but you need to find out which one is being used by the boot loader
17:40 < absurdistani> it's bad to assume that the most recent is the one configured
17:40 < absurdistani> verify that before deleting
17:40 < jack_rip_vim> tymczenko: try to use old one to recover the bootloader
17:40 < tymczenko> absurdistani, how can I see my kernel version that is used currently?
17:40 < lukey_> tymczenko: apt-get purge linux-image-3.16.0-5-amd64
17:41 < lukey_> tymczenko: uname
17:41 < lukey_> tymczenko: uname -a
17:42 < jpe> Can anyone recommend a news site which talks about new version of software being released and new features?
17:45 < triceratux> jpe: http://www.osnews.com/ http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=home http://lxer.com/
17:45 < tymczenko> lukey_, it worked well, thanks)
17:45 < tymczenko> thanks everyone for your help. `apt-get` doesn't quarrel on me anymore about kernel :D
17:47 < jpe> triceratux, thanks
17:52 < noodlepie> linuxtoday.com, linux.com, linuxinsider.com
17:52 < noodlepie> @:P-~
17:53 < noodlepie> unixmen.com, slashdot.org and linux.org
17:56 < Chocobo> Hello, is it still true that there is a race condition if you call sysfs_create_group in the probe function of a driver? Just scanning through in-tree modules I see this a LOT:  https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/v4.9/source/drivers/hwmon/abx500.c#L409
17:56 < mawk> http://hey.look.a.verylegit.link/spambot-901malware__index.js.exe
17:57 < MrElendig> 4.9? <sadface>
17:57 < MrElendig> ##kernel of #kernelnewbies might be a better place though
17:57 < Chocobo> MrElendig, sorry... this is on a zynq-7000.  We are still at 4.9
17:58 < Chocobo> MrElendig, thank you.
18:13 < TwistedFate> is there a chat room for security cameras on gnu+linux?
18:14 < LtL> TwistedFate: /msg alis list <searchterm> to find channels.
18:15 < ayecee> probably no
18:19 < phr> TwistedFate: use your gold card and try #security
18:19 < jack_rip_vim> phr Gold Card?
18:20 < za1b1tsu> I would like to automate something, but idk what is the convetion or most popular way of doing it. For example when I'm learning a new programming language, I work in a simple file and when I want to see the results, I compile it. What can I use to watch a file and when that files saves, a command should be run with that filename?
18:21 < ayecee> would be a feature of many IDEs
18:21 < MrElendig> za1b1tsu: use whatever :make or :run your editor/ide has
18:22 < MrElendig> if it doesn't have one, get a better editor
18:22 < za1b1tsu> MrElendig: I use vim
18:22 < ayecee> there's your problem
18:22 < jack_rip_vim> vim \o/
18:22 < MrElendig> vim had functionality for this
18:22 < MrElendig> even async now
18:22 < za1b1tsu> so I can't do this with bash or a global guard/watcher or something
18:23 < za1b1tsu> independent from my editor
18:23 < MrElendig> you can, but that is a worse way
18:23 < MrElendig> what if you want to save without having it compiled/executed one time?
18:24 < MrElendig> za1b1tsu: https://www.reddit.com/r/vim/comments/69ru59/async_make_in_vim_8/  pick one
18:24 < za1b1tsu> MrElendig: it's a temp file for testing commands, I wouldnt worry about that scenario. If I'm working on a project, I would do a proper setup
18:25 < MrElendig> or use the blocking :make
18:25 < hexnewbie> I don't find vim super-comfortable for editing code, but it's way simpler to pop to the adjacent console (or alt-tab to the console), and press up-enter to run ‘make; ./program’ than to even click the build button in a toolbar, let alone do :make
18:25 < hexnewbie> It's one-handed lazy gesture
18:26 < MrElendig> hexnewbie: the new async :make implementations are nice in that they don't block anymore though
18:27 < MrElendig> I usually just mod-j and ninja too though
18:27 < MrElendig> ninja/whatever
18:27 < za1b1tsu> hmm I could make a vim script for custom command: save and depending on file extension run a command :D
18:29 < MrElendig> https://vimeo.com/63116209   :p
18:29 < blackwidow9> whats the difference between terminal and shell?
18:29 < ayecee> a terminal provides access to a shell
18:29 < blackwidow9> figured that terminal is just a front end to shell
18:30 < blackwidow9> ayecee : suppose i scheduled a cron job, its gonna run sometime later right? ...without the terminal
18:30 < ayecee> in the old days, the terminal was a physical thing with a green and black screen in front of you, and the shell was a program running on a unix server behind closed doors.
18:30 < BCMM> blackwidow9: a terminal (or "terminal emulator", practically synonymous in this decade) is the thing that accepts keyboard input and draws letters on a screen and stuff like that
18:30 < blackwidow9> will it be using the shell?
18:30 < ayecee> blackwidow9: would make sense
18:30 < BCMM> blackwidow9: a shell is the thing that does clever stuff with the text you enter and generates other text for the terminal to show you
18:30 < toothe> I have a distro/Window manager question (not trying to start a war)
18:31  * ayecee gets the pitchforks ready
18:31  * jack_rip_vim O_o
18:31 < blackwidow9> BCMM : in the cron job example, the job will be executed by the shell yeah? (without the terminal)
18:32 < MrElendig> blackwidow9: this is a terminal: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/99/DEC_VT100_terminal.jpg/1200px-DEC_VT100_terminal.jpg
18:32 < toothe> With Gnome, I noticed that if I am running a program (ie, terminal), and if I have multiple windows open at the same time, it requires a separate tab to show which windows are open and which are closed.
18:32 < MrElendig> blackwidow9: this is a shell:  https://www.gnu.org/software/bash/
18:32 < BCMM> blackwidow9: i'm not actually sure whether cron will necessarily start a shell
18:32 < toothe> whereas on Cinnamon/XFCE, they're on the same tab.
18:32 < ayecee> yes, it necessarily would
18:32 < BCMM> blackwidow9: but assuming that that thing you're running with cron is a shell script, sure
18:32 < toothe> there's no way to combine those two?
18:33 < jack_rip_vim> toothe: try mate
18:33 < BCMM> blackwidow9: MrElendig's may or may not have meant that wiki link as a joke, but it's actually useful for explaining the concept
18:33 < jack_rip_vim> toothe: old gnome 2
18:33 < blackwidow9> ohk! ..suppose i set the key binding (CTRL+ALT+T) to pop up the terminal (say /bin/gnome-terminal), will the shell itself start the terminal? kinda got convoluted :(
18:33 < toothe> jack_rip_vim: Yes, I rather like MATE
18:33 < toothe> I actually prefer Cinammon.
18:33 < ayecee> https://i.imgur.com/WTDnnwE.gif
18:34 < toothe> in fact, literally the only reason I run Mint is because I like Cinammon's default theme
18:34 < MrElendig> BCMM: totally serious actually
18:34 < jack_rip_vim> toothe: so, problems fixed
18:34 < BCMM> blackwidow9: the user interacts with that vt1000 terminal, and it sends the text to a computer somewhere. on that computer, a shell is running, processing the input from the terminal
18:34 < toothe> jack_rip_vim: pardon?
18:34 < jack_rip_vim> toothe: that is the way gnome3 like, can't fix
18:34 < BCMM> blackwidow9: these days, people are usually using a "terminal emulator", like gnome-terminal, but the principle is the same
18:34 < blackwidow9> BCMM, MrElendig : knew that part xD had done my research a bit haha
18:34 < MrElendig> I was going to post the source code of main() in bash, but sadly bash is not on a vcs
18:34 < ayecee> vt1000 eh
18:35 < jack_rip_vim> s/like/look like
18:35 < toothe> okay, so my reason for asking this question is highly self-serving.
18:35 < MrElendig> and too lazy to rehost
18:35 < jack_rip_vim> toothe: yeah, I think
18:35 < BCMM> blackwidow9: in that the terminal is still very separate from teh shell, even though they now both exist as processes on the same computer
18:35 < toothe> I really like Pop_OS's theme. I think its solid.
18:36 < blackwidow9> BCMM, ohk, so the shell too is a process!, runs in kernel mode?
18:36 < toothe> That's literally the only thing I like about Pop_OS. To me, its Ubuntu.
18:36 < ayecee> blackwidow9: no
18:36 < BCMM> blackwidow9: no. the shell is just another program.
18:36 < blackwidow9> and btw, the shell spawns the terminal emulator?
18:36 < toothe> however, I don't like Gnome. I dislike how the "Activities" button takes up the entire screen.
18:36 < toothe> That drives me bonkers.
18:36 < ayecee> ah, but what spawned the shell
18:36 < jack_rip_vim> toothe: choose what the best for yourself
18:36 < BCMM> blackwidow9: the shell is just a command-line program really
18:36 < ayecee> a clear case for god
18:36 < toothe> jack_rip_vim: why can't I have it all? :(
18:36 < BCMM> blackwidow9: you can type text in to it, and it can print text to the terminal
18:37 < toothe> let me ask a better question - is there a way to change Gnome's Activity menu's behavior?
18:37 < jack_rip_vim> toothe: you can custom your own, delete some part of gnome, then install that fix for you
18:37 < blackwidow9> BCMM, ohk, so maybe the current program im in, ( i think its X) that fork() and exec() to start the terminal?
18:38 < BCMM> blackwidow9: by the way, you don't actually have to run a shell to interact with an interactive command-line program - you can connect the terminal emulator directly to the program in question
18:38 < toothe> jack_rip_vim: I could...I do know C pretty well heh.
18:38 < BCMM> blackwidow9: i didn't really understand that last bit, honestly
18:38 < BCMM> blackwidow9: are you asking how the terminal emulator gets started?
18:38 < jack_rip_vim> toothe: I mean you can delete gnome tool bar, then install xfce tool bar
18:38 < jack_rip_vim> or other
18:39 < jack_rip_vim> s
18:39 < blackwidow9> BCMM, like, terminal is process yeah? and some parent process must exist to spawn it right?
18:39 < hexnewbie> blackwidow9: The terminal emulator needn't be a process.
18:39 < ayecee> blackwidow9: sure
18:39 < blackwidow9> hexnewbie, really???!
18:39 < BCMM> blackwidow9: a terminal is a piece of hardware like MrElendig linked above. but these days, the "terminal emulator" is a process, yes
18:40 < BCMM> blackwidow9: typically, an application that draws an X11 window for you to interact with
18:40 < hexnewbie> blackwidow9: It can be a new window/tab in an existing tmux/konsole/gnome-terminal session/process. It can even be a terminal emulator widget embedded in your code editor/IDE.
18:40 < blackwidow9> hexnewbie, : ah yeah, that way
18:40 < BCMM> hexnewbie: seems pedantic, really. if kate uses konsolepart, kate is now a terminal emulator as well as a text editor
18:41 < blackwidow9> BCMM, ayecee , hexnewbie Thanks a ton!
18:41 < MrElendig> blackwidow9: they work just like the hardware ones though
18:41 < jack_rip_vim> I think geany is good for C language
18:41 < hexnewbie> BCMM: My point is, the fork()/exec() of the terminal emulator is immaterial to the way the terminal and the shell communicate. It could be GNU screen opening a serial console on a different computer, and would still operate similarly.
18:42 < toothe> jack_rip_vim: can I modify its behavior though?
18:42 < BCMM> blackwidow9: there's nothing particularly special about the relationship between the shell and the terminal, btw. a command line program just takes in text and prints out text, for the most part. a terminal provides a way to get input and display text to the user
18:42 < toothe> sorry to ask so many questions, I'm pretty much a terminal guy.
18:42 < jack_rip_vim> toothe: I think it can, just a little be more config with DE
18:43 < hexnewbie> blackwidow9: ^^^ that was for you, too. Point is, you don't care if you fork a process as much, but if you really want to know how it works, read about pseudoterminal master/slave (man ptmx). But that may be too much information.
18:43 < BCMM> blackwidow9: if you run `xterm -e vim`, for example, you can watch a terminal emulator interact directly with an application with no shell involved
18:43 < toothe> jack_rip_vim: I'd be interested to know where/how one can do that :)
18:43 < BCMM> hexnewbie: yes, fair point
18:43 < jack_rip_vim> toothe: google has some manual about how to set up a Cool DE
18:44 < BCMM> hexnewbie: the stuff about fork does sort of imply that he's wondering *how* that stdin/stdout communication takes place, i guess
18:44 < jack_rip_vim> toothe: you may like some DE like i3wm, openbox, fvwm ...
18:45 < jack_rip_vim> toothe: base on it, you can set up cool DE
18:45 < toothe> i'm not following you, I'm sorry.
18:46 < blackwidow9> BCMM: so , all the executables (say in /bin/) , as per my experience (pretty noob xD), we run those programs(commands) in a shell right? so theyre useless without a shell?
18:46 < hexnewbie> blackwidow9: However, this may be useful: The local terminal emulators do fork()/exec()s the shell for you (or other command you requested), though. That's because pty devices don't have login running on their other end, so your terminal has to run a process there.
18:46 < jack_rip_vim> toothe: you are a terminal guy, you will love it
18:47 < jack_rip_vim> toothe: you can google some pic about those de
18:47 < jack_rip_vim> DE*
18:47 < blackwidow9> hexnewbie, :yeah i think i need to get my basics right first. kinda sounds like greek and latin to me XD
18:48 < blackwidow9> hexnewbie, were you talking about remote login?
18:49 < hexnewbie> blackwidow9: 1) your terminal emulator create a pseudo-terminal pair (it gets the ptmx/master end, and a shell or other command line program would get the pty/slave end), 2) your terminal emulator launches a shell connected to the pty (slave end), with the pty as its ‘controlling terminal’/‘tty’, 3) the terminal emulator receives the output through its ptmx/master end and outputs it somewhere, if you produce input it sends
18:49 < hexnewbie> it back through the master end and the program receives it from the pty.
18:50 < hexnewbie> blackwidow9: ‘a shell’ in this context can be any other program, vim, mc, even things you aren't supposed to run like that (say, a GUI program you whose output in terminal you wish to observe)
18:50 < jack_rip_vim> Gona Go, Bye Guys!
18:52 < mawk> then there are even more complicated stuff about it: session leaders, process groups, controlling terminals
18:52 < blackwidow9> hexnewbie, oh thats a lot of info!, gonna look into it.. for now , I'll make it really clear what im bothered about. OK, .............I launched a terminal-emulator, and typed "vim" and pressed enter. was a shell involved at all during the whole time?
18:52 < mawk> basically which program gets the input and the ^C
18:53 < hexnewbie> blackwidow9: Likely, yes. You would've typed vim in the shell.
18:53 < blackwidow9> hexnewbie, ohhhh ohk! :')
18:54 < hexnewbie> blackwidow9: Well, pedantic version, you typed it in the terminal, the terminal wrote it to the ptmx file descriptor, and the shell received it from its /dev/pts/xx file descriptor :)
18:55 < mawk> or unix98 style pseudo terminal
18:55 < mawk> if they still exist
18:55 < mawk> or BSD style rather maybe
18:55 < mawk> can't remember which of the two is it
18:55 < blackwidow9> hexnewbie, ohk, so shell simply listens to that /dev/pts/xx file. and this makes it terminal-emulator-independant? xD
18:56 < blackwidow9> hexnewbie, didnt know this part. thaaanks!
18:56 < hexnewbie> blackwidow9: Well, terminal-independent. It can attach to any terminal device, even serial ports. Although not-ptys usually use getty and login before starting the shell.
18:57 < blackwidow9> hexnewbie, cool cool. damn I need to study a lot!
18:57 < mawk> you can use that fact to create fake serial ports for testing
18:58 < mawk> socat STDIO PTY,linkpty=/home/toto/pty
18:58 < mawk> then use /home/toto/pty as the serial port
18:59 < hexnewbie> When fakery is considered, I'm somewhat disappointed that there isn't /dev/ptm/xxx allowing root to write to master ends of terminals. I've needed that. Granted, only twice, but I still needed it.
19:00 < rogerson> How can I check if Gnome is installed on Debian 9?
19:00 < mawk> there's an ioctl for that now hexnewbie I think
19:00 < mawk> since 4.5
19:00 < mawk> take a look at man ioctl_tty
19:01 < mawk> 4.5 or something like that
19:02 < rogerson> mawk was that answer for me?
19:02 < dgurney> no, it wasn't
19:05 < hexnewbie> rogerson: dpkg -l gnome
19:06 < hexnewbie> rogerson: If you mean parts of GNOME, then maybe: dpkg -l | grep gnome
19:07 < rogerson> hexnewbie thanks
19:07 < rogerson> no I ment for the gnome app
19:07 < rogerson> also for some reason it can't recognze sudo command any idea why? I just installed debian 9 from iso usb
19:08 < ayecee> probably because sudo isn't installed
19:08 < rogerson> ok thanks
19:20 < snugger> We need runtime library based on emacs tbh
19:22 < rascul> emacs is great, it's just useless to me without a decent text editor
19:22 < za1b1tsu> is ruby suitable for bash scripting?
19:23 < rascul> za1b1tsu i'm not sure how your question makes sense
19:23 < rascul> ruby isn't used for bash scripting, ruby is its own scripting language
19:24 < za1b1tsu> rascul: I see that everybody recommends python for bash scripts, I don't know python, I know ruby. Wondered if it's worh learning python for this
19:24 < rascul> who is recommending python for bash scripts? and how does that make sense?
19:24 < MrElendig> if you know ruby use ruby
19:25 < rascul> za1b1tsu do you mean learn ruby to replace bash scripts with or something?
19:25 < MrElendig> not that much difference between python and ruby when it comes to system tasks
19:25 < MrElendig> (better selection of libs for py though)
19:25 < za1b1tsu> my appologies, I mean shell scripts
19:26 < rascul> what do you mean to do with shell scripts?
19:26 < jim> I'd say python is totally worth learning
19:26 < za1b1tsu> automate stuff
19:26 < za1b1tsu> like tmux sessions, downloading packages etc
19:26 < rascul> neither python or ruby are shell scripts, i suspect your terminology was confusing me
19:27 < neoncortex> I generally write shell scripts with bash. If its not enough it means I need to write an application
19:27 < rascul> either python or ruby would be fine for anything that takes more than a few lines in a shell script though
19:37 < toothe> wow, i almost accidently pasted 10 lines here. thank God weechat saved that.
19:38 < RcrdBrt> are there any downsides on having a huge amount of zram like 2* the size of the actual RAM?
19:40 < Psi-Jack> toothe: What did weechat do about it?
19:40 < MrElendig> "are you sure you want to paste 10 lines? [No/yes]
19:41 < toothe> yes.
19:41 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm, nice!
19:41 < toothe> When I was brand new to Linux, someone told me to type `man something` (back when people read man pages)
19:41 < invisisith> 10 lines bad 9 lines good
19:41 < toothe> and I copy-pasted the man page into mIRC
19:41 < toothe> he said that was rude. I was like 16
19:41 < invisisith> all you need in linux is ls man cat
19:42 < Psi-Jack> People still read man pages, even still today.
19:42 < toothe> same.
19:42 < neoncortex> Of course, man pages are life
19:42 < toothe> I would say I use manual pages more nowadays than before.
19:42 < Psi-Jack> I just wish the chmod manpage in Linux was as good as the macOS one, and actually simplify looking up octal vs char permission bit correllations.
19:42 < invisisith> man grep |less
19:43 < uplime> why | less?
19:43 < Psi-Jack> invisisith: ... But... man already uses less.
19:43 < uplime> PAGER=less man grep
19:43 < invisisith> hmm .. my bad
19:43 < Psi-Jack> PAGER=more man grep
19:43 < Psi-Jack> Or my favorite.. PAGER=most man grep
19:43 < neoncortex> It will work without separation? PAGER=less; man xyz
19:44 < uplime> perhaps
19:44 < uplime> it depends on the shell
19:44 < invisisith> alias hard='man grep'
19:44 < koala_man> it will work without the ; , but it may not work with it
19:44 < uplime> but that is also not the same thing as PAGER=less man xyz
19:44 < Psi-Jack> VARNAME=value command -- This passes the value of varname into the executed command, but does not remain.
19:44 < uplime> the ; is important
19:44 < toothe> man, I really like this freaking font
19:44 < toothe> so, I'm stigging out a Kali Linux machine for use in our assessments and I'm going to set some personal preferences that everyone will have to use :)
19:45 < Psi-Jack> toothe--
19:45 < neoncortex> Psi-Jack: that mess with my internal compilation code l_value and r_value o.O
19:45 < Psi-Jack> heh
19:45 < toothe> Psi-Jack: pardon
19:45 < Psi-Jack> You mentioned that evil name. :)
19:45 < invisisith> i never used weechat I always use bitchx or limechat
19:45  * invisisith izz oldskool
19:46 < Psi-Jack> Ugh.. I remember BX.
19:46 < toothe> Psi-Jack: Kali?
19:46 < Psi-Jack> You did it AGAIN!
19:46 < toothe> Kali in Urdu literally means 'black', which is where I believe the name came from.
19:46  * Psi-Jack hands toothe a shovel.
19:46 < toothe> Psi-Jack: I'm not disagreeing with you that it isn't the best system to use.
19:47 < invisisith> kali is the best system to use ... umm really
19:47 < toothe> Kali is secure!
19:47 < neoncortex> I find that BackTrack sounds better
19:47 < triceratux> the best system isnt even mint anymore. its manjaro
19:48 < invisisith> its not centos
19:48 < invisisith> why not just use debian and iptables
19:48 < Psi-Jack> ParrotSec
19:49 < toothe> I used Fedora for a few months. Honestly, A. It updated too much and B. Audio didn't work by default.
19:49 < toothe> A lot of packages weren't present.
19:49 < Psi-Jack> Did you add RPMFusion?
19:49 < toothe> yes, eventually. I recall having a lot of random issues.
19:49 < Psi-Jack> Fedora's rock solid, since f18.
19:49 < neoncortex> I find that Fedora does too much, I mean, it tries to help you in a way that it's ends bothering
19:50 < Psi-Jack> neoncortex: wut?
19:50 < toothe> yes! so, I was trying to run systemtap, and it kept breaking.
19:50 < toothe> due to kernel updates.
19:50 < invisisith> screw linux and go win10
19:50 < invisisith> its got dev mode now!
19:50 < toothe> Screw Win10. Go DOS.
19:50 < toothe> REAL MODE!
19:50 < neoncortex> Psi-Jack: It does strange things with their package mananer, it verifies integrity f this and that every time, it have some selinux rules that break my workflow, etc
19:51 < invisisith> ahh snap DOS
19:51 < invisisith> remember DOS 2 with EDLIN
19:51  * Psi-Jack watches a dart land on invisisith's neck, soon he passes out into a suitcase that was neatly prepared just prior to the dart behind the scenes.
19:51 < neoncortex> Psi-Jack: All that based on a experience I had with it 2 years ago or something like that
19:51 < bls> ...yeah I hate it when distros hardcode everything and force me to use them without a choice :|
19:52 < za1b1tsu> I like ubuntu minimal, am I inferior?
19:52 < compdoc> ubuntu is awesome, like me
19:52 < bls> za1b1tsu: lies. you don't exist. everyone knows ubuntu is bloated and installs too much.
19:52 < toothe> za1b1tsu: same.
19:52 < toothe> I actually really really like Ubuntu.
19:53 < invisisith> I run linux off a thumbdrive on a acer labtop in a starbucks off a vpn for maximum security
19:53 < toothe> and/or Ubuntu-derived systems.
19:53 < za1b1tsu> toothe: and now will all the updated packages in 18.04... easy life
19:53 < bls> za1b1tsu: how dare you learn how to and then customize your system. for shame
19:53 < neoncortex> Someone said those days Microsoft will buy Canonical xD
19:53 < toothe> actually, i love FreeBSD and i've had bad experiences with updating jails.
19:54 < Psi-Jack> heh, jails..
19:54 < za1b1tsu> bls: Ubuntu -> Ubuntu gnome -> Lubuntu -> Ubuntu minimal... who knows what's next..
19:54 < Psi-Jack> They once said jails was a "good" thing. Well. More like, it was a good thing, keyword not being good, but was. ;)
19:55 < triceratux> xubuntu-core ftw. just dont install it https://unit193.net/xubuntu/core/index.html
19:55 < Psi-Jack> toothe: Sounds like systemtap was more to blame than anything else. :)
19:56 < toothe> heh, probably actually.
19:56 < toothe> i had bad experiences.
19:56 < toothe> even though the guy who ran it tried really hard.
19:56 < Psi-Jack> stap it!
19:56 < bls> triceratux: have you published a recent MMLIF? went to update some of my ISOs, they've moved things around, and the Arch page is no more
19:57 < Psi-Jack> bls: Is it not in the history pages?
19:57 < good1uck> t
19:57 < triceratux> bls: i can post it. hang on
19:57 < bls> Psi-Jack: yes, but they're not being updated, so when kernels or initrds move/change names, the general setup breaks
19:57 < Psi-Jack> Heh
19:57 < sphalerite> how well can linux survive a device with active swap on it being removed?
19:57 < neoncortex> triceratux: Do you have a website or something?
19:58 < noodlepie> R.I.P (Recovery Is Possible) makes a great recovery image for your computer. There are mirrors all over the world with it on. Highly recommended for generic Linux fixingary
19:58 < Psi-Jack> I'm still pissed the Arch wiki removed the multi-boot USB stuff that was actually useful, claiming to move it elsewhere, and never did, so you have to go through the history archives every time to actually see something useful.
19:59 < noodlepie> nautilus-git would be nice!
19:59 < bls> Psi-Jack: yeah, it's a bit short sighted to be purging all non-arch information now that some are seeing the Arch wiki as the new TLDP
19:59 < triceratux> bls: this is current as of ubuntu 18.04 & fedora 28 http://pastebin.centos.org/744211/raw/
19:59 < bls> triceratux: awesome, thanks
20:00 < Psi-Jack> bls: Well, I'm going to consume all of Arch Wiki that's actually useful, and put it on my site. :)
20:00 < Psi-Jack> How about that, huh huh? ;)
20:00 < Psi-Jack> A total of ... What... 3 pages? ;)
20:00 < neoncortex> I'll memorize it =D
20:01 < good1uck> I am parroted.
20:02 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Good stuff.
20:02 < Psi-Jack> heh
20:02 < Psi-Jack> My grub setup is far superior to even yours, but I'll mend it. :)
20:02 < good1uck> haha
20:02 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: youre very kind. its up to us to watch that arch knowledgebase & run off with it before it disappears ;)
20:02 < Psi-Jack> I do some if conditioning to auto-generate the menu, and only show what's available.
20:02 < bls> now if we could just add a bittorrent client to grub to download the ISOs on the fly :P
20:03 < Psi-Jack> Eww, no thank you.
20:04 < jD91mZM2> Hi everyone! I'm having some really strange monitor issues. Suddenly when booting today, this happened: https://i.imgur.com/obUUchV.png. The second monitor became a still-image of my first, and my actual content was drawn off-screen. My monitor configuration was set using xrandr on startup. Disabling the second monitor in xrandr worked. Finally, just now, I realized that changing the monitor configuration
20:04 < jD91mZM2> from the Xorg config directly almost works perfectly. And then I can use xrandr to change the second monitor to a smaller size and back, but as soon as I try to make it larger my monitor starts acting weird again. So it seems like there is an issue it exceeds the original screen size, but I'm not sure. Any advice?
20:04 < invisisith> I wonder if prison inmated that get to use computers if they use linux or windoze machines or even macs
20:05 < fendur> I'm sure it's a heavily locked down version of windows
20:05 < neoncortex> I bet the prision manager will not let them use Linux, "because it's hacker"
20:06 < invisisith> if prisoners stick cell phones in the ass I am sure they can burn kali on a thunbdrive to hack
20:06 < fendur> invisisith: I'm sure that comes with pretty big risks in terms of odds of parole or sentence length.
20:07 < good1uck> ...
20:07 < invisisith> nah prisons are corrupt as shit
20:07 < invisisith> money talks
20:07 < fendur> invisisith: that doesn't mean prisoners can get away with anything.
20:08 < neoncortex> Yes, they can use drugs there and kill earch other, but no Linux
20:08 < invisisith> dude prisoners with money can get sent to white collar prisons with all kinds of amenities
20:08 < Psi-Jack> jD91mZM2: Video chipset?
20:09 < Psi-Jack> or Card, of course. :)
20:09 < good1uck> I am parroted. Even this sentence.
20:09 < Psi-Jack> Polly wanna cracker?
20:09 < jD91mZM2> Psi-Jack: I'm using both (Optimus, ugh) Intel Inside Core i7 and NVIDIA GeForce 820M. Sorry if one of those is a CPU and not a GPU, I'm not good at hardware at all
20:10 < good1uck> Psi-Jack:wut
20:10 < Psi-Jack> Intel Core i7 is CPU. But yeah. I can't help with Optimus. I just, don't do Optimus.
20:10 < Psi-Jack> good1uck: Polly want a cracker? ;)
20:11 < neoncortex> Who's Polly?
20:12 < Psi-Jack> The Parrot.
20:12 < neoncortex> oh
20:14 < good1uck> d
20:15 < good1uck>         hi i am 9yrs old
20:16 < fendur> grow up
20:17 < good1uck> which i cant stop
20:17 < fendur> none of us can
20:17 < good1uck> haha
20:18 < good1uck> why so many people in this Channel but few talking
20:19 < good1uck> and keep joining and leaving
20:19 < uplime> its a support channel. if no ones talking that means no one needs support
20:19 < good1uck> lol
20:19 < toothe> or that Linux is dying?
20:19 < neoncortex> also because they are doing something
20:19 < toothe> I think we need to bring back @BigSister
20:19 < Psi-Jack> NOOO!
20:19 < Slugs_> All I’m trying to upload an iso to my server.  My root partition is only 1 gig that holds my OS, I have a 50 gig partition that is mounted /dev/sdb1/ at /mnt/iso/  It appears that when I’m uploading the file it first trys to temporarly put this file on the root parittion because it fails to move the file.  If i upload a smal file it appears to work correctly.  Am i correct to assume that the file is first uploaded to /var/tmp and then once complete
20:19 < Slugs_> moved to the correct spot?
20:19 < bls> there are lots of bots/bouncers/etc aimed at this place, so there's a constant stream of joins/parts/quits
20:19 < toothe> Psi-Jack: do you recall bigsister?
20:20 < bls> Slugs_: that depends entirely on what tool you're using
20:20 < hexnewbie> toothe: I'm sure she'll take points from you for starting sentences with a non-capital letter.
20:20 < Psi-Jack> Slugs_: How are you "uploading" it?
20:20 < j0seph> there is an offtopic channel, right?
20:20 < j0seph> that's where people go to talk about other stuff.
20:20 < djph> Slugs_: "how" are you uploading it?
20:20 < toothe> hexnewbie: ha! wow.
20:20 < j0seph> if it exists, that may be more active.
20:20 < Psi-Jack> j0seph: Unofficially, yes-no.
20:20 < Slugs_> This is using proxmox web upload
20:20 < neoncortex> yes-no xD
20:21 < Psi-Jack> Slugs_: Oh, Why do you only have 1GB for root? This is guaranteed never enough. :)
20:21 < djph> Slugs_: that's likely the problem then.  bet it defaults to sending to /tmp before anywhere else
20:21 < j0seph> Psi-Jack: explain
20:21 < Psi-Jack> j0seph: ##linux is only ##linux and ##linux-ops. No other channel.
20:21 < Psi-Jack> j0seph: There's others, like ##linux-social, ##linux-offtopic, etc. But they are not in any way affiliated with ##linux
20:22 < bls> j0seph: /msg alis list social or /msg alis list offtopic  to ask the list bot for channels
20:22 < toothe> Psi-Jack: no, this is ##sparta
20:22 < j0seph> Psi-Jack: well, i'll drop by there
20:22 < j0seph> doesn't need to be official
20:22 < Psi-Jack> hehe
20:22 < j0seph> so long as it serves the same purpose
20:22 < good1uck> lol...
20:22 < hexnewbie> There's one person in one of those channels, and zero in the other.
20:23 < bls> that purpose being even more of nerd daycare than this place already is?
20:23 < j0seph> bls: obviously
20:23 < Slugs_> Psi-Jack: when installing proxmox on a vm this is the default
20:23 < j0seph> hexnewbie: well then
20:23 < Slugs_> Psi-Jack: https://pastebin.com/bc8vfWBH
20:23 < hexnewbie> No, obviously the point is to play text-only 3D chess.
20:23 < good1uck> hahaha
20:24 < Psi-Jack> Slugs_: pastebin.com is frowned upon due to many issues they themselves have caused. Pastes being reformatted, malvertising, adblock blocking, being blocked due to many reasons. See /topic for the channel's official pastebin.
20:24  * Sauvin been getting nuts with snaps and flatpaks
20:24 < toothe> yes, I rather dislike pastebin.com
20:24 < invisisith> emacs has built in text games like snake
20:24  * good1uck sell drinks
20:24 < invisisith> toothe use ghostbin
20:24 < toothe> anything that isn't <PRE> is useless to me.
20:24 < Psi-Jack> And since when has 1GB been the default, even for Proxmox VE? Granted, I've been using PVE for _YEARS_.
20:24 < purplebob> I got radius auth, OTP working with sshd. I'm trying to make the prompt say OTP or something like that instead of password. I added prompt=OTP after pam_radius_auth.so in /etc/pam.d/sshd.
20:25 < toothe> invisisith: my muscle memory goes to dpaste from years of coding in django.
20:25 < Sauvin> Psi-Jack, short story: pastebin is an infested pile of garbage.
20:25 < Psi-Jack> Exactly
20:25 < Psi-Jack> Sauvin: Which reminds me...
20:25 < Sauvin> Uh oh.
20:25 < good1uck> do you still remeber 0/1 knapsack problme
20:25 < Psi-Jack> Sauvin: Has anyone told WildPikachu about his paste site being botted to death?
20:26 < Sauvin> I'm not personally in touch with that side of things much, but do remember some discussion surrounding it.
20:26 < Psi-Jack> It's being quite heavilly utilized for C&C like activity.
20:26 < Slugs_> Psi-Jack: im not saying it’s the default, i didn’t make any modifications.  what can i  use instead of pastebin
20:27 < Sauvin> What's C&C?
20:27 < Psi-Jack> Slugs_: /topic has a paste site, or any other paste site you want. hastebin, ghostbin, termbin, my pastebin site.
20:27 < Psi-Jack> Sauvin: Command & Control
20:27 < neoncortex> Command & Conquer
20:27 < Slugs_> ty
20:27 < Psi-Jack> Slugs_: "Thank you" not "ty", please. It's miles apart different.
20:27 < good1uck> i am stuck by solving 0/1 knapsack problem with backtracking ..
20:27 < Sauvin> A game?
20:28 < bls> good1uck: is that a linux program?
20:28 < toothe> i wonder if BigSister's source was ever released.
20:28 < good1uck> it's not
20:28 < good1uck> it's a kind of algorithm problem
20:28 < Slugs_> Psi-Jack: https://paste.linux.community/view/7289815e  and — Thank you!
20:29 < bls> good1uck: then ##algorithms might be a more on topic place if you're needing help
20:29 < edisonbulb> how much ram does it take to build a 64 bit defconfig
20:29 < Sauvin> Psi-Jack, I see what you mean. Lots of irrelevant traffic.
20:29 < Psi-Jack> Sauvin: Heh
20:29 < good1uck> thank you!
20:30 < Psi-Jack> Sauvin: Some of which looks like it could be C&C like activities. I managed to block most of it from my own stikked server.
20:30 < edisonbulb> with modules disabled
20:30 < Sauvin> I shouldn't wonder if maybe tons of other such services aren't similarly botted.
20:30 < Sauvin> How'd you manage that?
20:30 < Psi-Jack> Stikked updates. :)
20:30 < edisonbulb> got 6 gigs & get out of memory errors at the final module link
20:30 < Psi-Jack> Enabling some anti-spam options with that.
20:31 < Sauvin> I'm miffed captchas aren't enough.
20:31 < Psi-Jack> Sauvin: They are. Others, that is. Because of similar API-based spamming methods. :)
20:31 < Psi-Jack> Sauvin: API gets around Captcha
20:31 < bls> "click all the roadsigns" :|
20:31 < Psi-Jack> Heh
20:31 < Psi-Jack> Now do so again.
20:31 < edisonbulb> im human and fail capchas around 75% of the time
20:32 < Sauvin> In that case, the solution might be to use an hitherto unknown API. [!@@#$%@#]
20:32 < neoncortex> There is a way to get around captchas? I need to learn that =D
20:32 < Psi-Jack> edisonbulb: Nah, the new Google one is very easy for humans, difficult for bots.
20:32 < bls> "Why do I feel like you should be paying me to train your AI/ML just to use your site?"
20:32 < Sauvin> I'm human and can't captcha to save my [@#$@@#$^].
20:32 < good1uck> how to personal message some one..
20:32 < edisonbulb> i like the one that measures entropy in cursor movement
20:32 < edisonbulb> it's easy and is right most of the time
20:33 < bls> good1uck: /msg nickname message
20:33 < Psi-Jack> Slugs_: Yep. That's.... Not an ideal setup for sure. :)
20:34 < Psi-Jack>  /dev/sda2                                           20G   15G  3.9G  80% /
20:34 < Psi-Jack> An that's been like that for.... Years. :)
20:35 < toothe> Linux has changed over the years.
20:35 < noodlepie> So much! :P
20:35 < toothe> I remember once writing a bash script to load a device driver for an ISA ethernet card to loop through every possible IRQ value.
20:35 < neoncortex> bls: I bet those sites lose a good amount of public in their sites because those dumb captchas, I'm one who just go away generally
20:35 < hexnewbie> Yeah, nowadays you understand only 5% of the stuff in menuconfig, and some of the stuff you don't understand you actuallyneed
20:36 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm.. And that fuse mounted /etc/pve, made me think on something. That's... Not being backed up by my borgmatic configuration in its current setup.
20:36 < noodlepie> I used to use Linux 1.something under Slackware, which came with a Linux manual, 25 years ago. It had Motif C++ tutorial in it which is dead useful today, I like that Motif and CDE are Free projects today. Latest versions of the book probably teach GTK/GNOME
20:37 < ntd> anyone using a docked thinkpad and kernel 4.15?
20:37 < neoncortex> hexnewbie: time to go GNU Hurd
20:37 < good1uck> m
20:37 < Psi-Jack> noodlepie: SLS, Slackware, Yggdrasil, RedHat/Debian, and all downhill from there. LOL
20:37 < good1uck> --help
20:37 < good1uck> !help
20:37 < Psi-Jack> good1uck: Mind stoping that?
20:38 < triceratux> damnsmall >> some distros in between >> swagarch
20:39 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Just include *..
20:39 < Psi-Jack> You know you should. ;)
20:40 < good1uck> Psi-Jack why your name became red
20:40 < good1uck> how to do that
20:41 < compdoc> it turns red when Psi-Jack  is very angry
20:41 < neoncortex> I also want my name red
20:41 < noodlepie> The GNU Hurd/Herd looks good. It will fly at E-language Network promises due to user mounted (network) filesystems. It's as logical a Linux replacement, as Gentoo is a Linux/GNU distribution. @:P-~
20:41 < compdoc> redcortex?
20:41 < noodlepie> There's all sort of stuff you can do with those! :P
20:42 < noodlepie> Things like userspace FTP-mount and network porxying things.
20:42 < neoncortex> compdoc: not exactly what I had in mind ..
20:42 < noodlepie> proxying
20:42 < Psi-Jack> good1uck: Do you have any Linux questions?
20:42 < good1uck> no i am trying some instructions about IRc channel
20:43 < neoncortex> noodlepie: I actually never tried Hurd, my fear are device drivers that it probably does not have
20:44 < Psi-Jack> good1uck: For general IRC help, see #freenode
20:44 < noodlepie> Can run Hurd in a Linux VM, Convenient, free and good to try it out.
20:44 < toothe> noodlepie: that still exists??
20:44 < good1uck> thank you
20:45 < neoncortex> also last time I checked it have like 5 developers, so better sit down when waiting improvements
20:45 < toothe> noodlepie: do me a favor and give me a 'uname -a' on that, if you could.
20:45 < Psi-Jack> good1uck: You've not had a single Linux question since being here, and this channel is specifically intended for Linux support. Thank you for your understanding.
20:45 < noodlepie> toothe, Yeah, it's based on the Carnegie-Melon MACH kernel, which is a simple microkernel, with a number of Interfaces enabled to let you interface with things on a component level.
20:45 < edisonbulb> looks like my question got buried: how much ram would a defconfig with modules disabled need
20:45 < edisonbulb> to build
20:46 < noodlepie> toothe, sure. It's... -->> Linux phillip.hugo.family 4.16.7-gentoo #6 SMP PREEMPT Sun May 6 13:06:00 BST 2018 x86_64 Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4710MQ CPU @ 2.50GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux. Oh you mean the GNU Hurd one? I'm not running it! :P
20:46 < noodlepie> But it says GNU Hurd intead of Linux :P
20:47 < edisonbulb> i modify my uname to say Linux instead of GNU/Linux
20:47 < toothe> noodlepie: yes lol. I would be more interested in that.
20:47 < neoncortex> I really want to get involved in a thing like kernel, but I'm trouble finding leaks in a simple user application xD
20:47 < ayecee> turns out debugging is harder than it looks
20:48 < neoncortex> It's more subtle that I have imagined
20:48 < neoncortex> #than
20:49 < ayecee> it's been said that you have to be twice as clever to debug code as to write code, so that if you write the cleverest code you can, you're not qualified to debug it
20:49 < edisonbulb> for some reason code i write is really easy to read when i come back to it but i find understanding and comprehending others' code difficult
20:50 < Loshki> The only thing I hated more than my own code was everyone else's...
20:50 < hexnewbie> alias uname='echo "None of your business, I'm a private AI"'
20:50 < WeirdTolkienishF> well written code shouldn't be hard to understand
20:50 < neoncortex> edisonbulb: I'm more or less in the same situation
20:50 < WeirdTolkienishF> well written, well organized code shouldn't be hard
20:50 < ayecee> would be nice if someone would write some
20:50 < WeirdTolkienishF> bad code = unreadable code
20:51 < Psi-Jack> Heh
20:51 < hexnewbie> Some underhanded C contest winners might disagree
20:51 < edisonbulb> i tried making some tweaks to gnome-terminal for personal use one time
20:51 < mawk> bad code = wrong code, for starters
20:51 < edisonbulb> couldn't figure the thing out to save my life
20:52 < good1uck> maw
20:52 < Psi-Jack> ayecee: spoon(). Debug THAT! ☺️
20:52 < mawk> unreadable code is just unelegant
20:52 < good1uck> mawk: rly
20:52 < WeirdTolkienishF> unless you're in an obfuscated c contest
20:52 < WeirdTolkienishF> otherwise good code = readable code
20:52 < ayecee> i see what you did there
20:53 < neoncortex> edisonbulb: I actually thinking I need to develop a method to understand others code, like draw it or something
20:53 < good1uck> neoncortex: just run it... i guess?
20:53 < edisonbulb> maybe i should just put on some smooth jazz, print the code out, get a cup of coffee, and read the code like it's a novel or something
20:53 < Psi-Jack> good1uck: Also, there is a channel policy in place regarding sms style abbreviations. In short, don't do them.
20:53 < WeirdTolkienishF> a good programmer will name their functions, methods, variables to be descriptive of exactly what they are trying to do
20:53 < neoncortex> good1uck: It's shows what code do, not how
20:53 < WeirdTolkienishF> and filenames
20:53 < ayecee> turn down the lights, light some incense
20:54 < WeirdTolkienishF> so you can read the function name and know exactly what that function does
20:54 < kekePower> Good (CET) evening
20:54 < ayecee> what's so good (cet) about it
20:54 < Psi-Jack> ayecee: and beware of the Tick
20:54 < WeirdTolkienishF> imo good code is self documenting
20:54 < kekePower> ayecee: It's a great evening :-)
20:54 < bls> kekePower: http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
20:54 < ayecee> translation: i don't write comments in my code
20:55 < good1uck> Psi-Jack: Don't do any abbreviations in sms?
20:55 < edisonbulb> i think that each function should get a comment header explaining what it does
20:55 < good1uck> Psi-Jack: oh well..
20:55 < Psi-Jack> good1uck: Instead of 'rly' for example, use 'really'.
20:55 < ayecee> o rly
20:55 < hexnewbie> Be sure to not document the backdoor, though. A good backdoor is undocumented backdoor, and innocently looking on code inspection.
20:56 < kekePower> bls: thanks for that :-)
20:56 < good1uck> Psi-Jack: what about sms ,haahahaha
20:56 < hexnewbie> I don't why the internet got so obsessed with eagles recently... Or O'Reilly Automotive Inc. stocks. Not sure which.
20:56 < bls> /* Don't touch the following code, it was added at the request of the NSA/FSB/MI5/Mossad, and they'll get upset if you try and go uncuddle their elses */
20:57 < Psi-Jack> Heh
20:57 < good1uck> Psi-Jack: thank you , you are very kind :)
20:57 < edisonbulb> bls: was about to post the same thing but forgot to escape my slash ;)
20:58  * noodlepie has a MOSSAD silenced UZI AirSoft gun (spring powered). And a Glock 17 pistol, a .45 USP handheld, an M92 Beretta pistol and a Colt M4A1 electic fully automatic! carbine rifle
20:59 < noodlepie> I love AirSoft! Used to "skirmish" a lot at school, with my mates!
20:59 < ananke> aren't you just so special
20:59 < edisonbulb> does getting shot with an airsoft hurt more than getting shot with a bb
20:59 < noodlepie> Getting a Mk23 SOCOM silenced pistol where they are back in stock with my dealer - bbguns4less.co.uk
21:02 < mawk> a linux-powered gun noodlepie I hope
21:02 < noodlepie> Nerf nerf nerf
21:02 < toothe> Linux-powered door bell?
21:02 < noodlepie> Tor, BitCoin and the Dark Web!!! :P
21:02 < Psi-Jack> toothe: I have one of those!
21:02 < noodlepie> Drug marketplaces! :P
21:02 < toothe> Psi-Jack: seriously?
21:02 < noodlepie> Shhluurp hash!
21:03 < hexnewbie> Only counts if the doorbell melody is rms singing
21:03 < Psi-Jack> toothe: seriously
21:03 < toothe> ...which kernel version?
21:03 < neoncortex> Gnu/Linux Free dor bell ..
21:04 < good1uck> it's possible if you count Raspberry Pi in
21:04 < edisonbulb> 100% libre door bell units, hack on your smart house! communicate with this delightful door bell unit through your own personal LAN IRC server
21:04 < j0seph> hold on let me just SSH into my doorbell
21:04 < neoncortex> Raspberry Pi is not Free, because video drivers, it's propietary [I read it somewhere]
21:04 < phogg> the real issue with smart houses is proprietary protocols
21:04 < Psi-Jack> toothe: Not sure, exactly. I just know Ring doorbells use the Linux kernel. :)
21:05 < toothe> that's really weird to me.
21:05 < edisonbulb> i would actually buy smart house equipment if it was libre and i could communicate with it using irc
21:05 < noodlepie> https://bbguns4less.co.uk/products/stealth-assassin-gas-pistol-bundle-deal.html for a look at the Mk23
21:05 < Psi-Jack> toothe: My doorbell has a camera, mic and speaker on it as well, so I can talk to the person at the door, and record them. ;)
21:06 < hexnewbie> Can it zap them with high voltage?
21:06 < good1uck> don't avoid pizza payment that way
21:06 < edisonbulb> could probably build stuff like that with a maker board or something
21:06 < Psi-Jack> No, but I control the mounted minigun hiding within the ceiling, with excelent custom-made automated aiming algorithms and cameras.
21:07 < edisonbulb> pi zeros are always out of stock tho
21:07  * Psi-Jack has a Pi Zero.
21:07 < neoncortex> give it to me
21:07 < hexnewbie> 1) Shout ‘I didn't order any pizza!’ through the mic, 2) stop the video recording, 3) apply the high voltage, 4) take the pizza, 5) go back to your own apartment.
21:07 < Psi-Jack> $1,000
21:07 < neoncortex> no
21:08  * good1uck has pi sb
21:09  * good1uck has 3b
21:09 < Psi-Jack> I have both a PiZero and Pi 3
21:09 < edisonbulb> why are pi zeros always out of stock anyway
21:09 < Psi-Jack> Because.
21:09 < ayecee> what happened to 1 and 2
21:09 < good1uck> i make a monitor stuff
21:09 < MrElendig> I have 2b and 3b
21:09 < Psi-Jack> good1uck: Look into ESP-32, and ESP-8266
21:10 < Psi-Jack> Much better for making low-power automation/control stuff. :)
21:10 < edisonbulb> i guess i could get a pi 2 or something like that
21:10 < edisonbulb> would make for a really clunky doorbell tho
21:10 < mawk> I started learning sigfox and LoRa at school
21:10 < dgurney> the last time I used my rpi3 was when I had to reflash a working coreboot image on my x220
21:10 < mawk> they gave me some ST electronics arm board with a sigfox module
21:10 < ayecee> most of it would be in the wall
21:10 < mawk> it's a very fun thing
21:10 < dgurney> other than that, both my 1 and 3 gather dust most of the time
21:10 < MrElendig> genuin stm board + ebay lora module == 10 bucks
21:11 < mawk> 95% of my country's population is covered by sigfox, that thing works in the countryside when you don't have any GSM signal
21:12 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm, Linux 4.14 LTS has been getting a LOT of updates suddenly recently.
21:13 < ayecee> very suspicious
21:14 < hexnewbie> More speculative execution workarounds?
21:14 < Psi-Jack> Maybe?
21:15 < Psi-Jack> But, haven't seen as many updates to linux mainline as I have linux-lts in the past 2 weeks.
21:17 < BerenErchamion> What does FOS stand for?
21:17 < noodlepie> Free and Open Source?
21:17 < ayecee> free and open source, maybe
21:17 < edisonbulb> is it true that any os could run on any kernel given a compatibility layer for the kernel interface
21:17 < uplime> edisonbulb: sure
21:17 < uplime> it might take some work first
21:17 < uplime> but its theoretically possible
21:17 < noodlepie> fos(8) - Linux man page
21:17 < noodlepie> Name
21:17 < noodlepie> fos - failover services daemon to control the Red Hat clustering services.
21:17 < BerenErchamion> Thanks, ayecee
21:18 < uplime> especially for any POSIX or SUS kernel
21:19 < noodlepie> I used to run a heartbeat fail-over server pair to run the Trouble TV station for Virgin Media, I built them a CMS/Site management app in Zope. You could cluster them and run the Zope Enterprice Objects to share loads with servers. Its, Zope, good!
21:19 < Slugs_> Psi-Jack: Sorry to go back to this.  you are saying that when uploading the iso it’s storing the file in first /var/tmp which is on the root parititon and this is why it’s failing correct?  Nothing I can do but resize the root partition?
21:19 < noodlepie> The Component Architecture is inspiring!
21:19 < noodlepie> A great way to program!
21:19 < noodlepie> :P
21:19 < Psi-Jack> Slugs_: No, /tmp
21:19 < Psi-Jack> I never said /var/tmp :p
21:19 < Slugs_> ah ok /tmp
21:19 < Slugs_> thank you
21:20 < Slugs_> i saw that from another user when discussing it.  Thank you again
21:25 < BerenErchamion> Does chromium still download and install proprietary software without your knowledge?
21:26 < hexnewbie> BerenErchamion: Do you mean does it still support JavaScript?
21:26 < Sane> Hey, I have a weird question. When my system loads something I added to crontab, how can I make sure it creates a dead.letter file?
21:26 < phogg> BerenErchamion: Chrome may have done that, but did chromium ever do it?
21:26 < zzero1> hi there I wanna plug this  https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nix.ru%2Fautocatalog%2Fnetworking_zyxel%2FZyXEL-Keenetic-Plus-DSL-USB-modem-ADSL-VDSL-dlya-Keenetic_219709.html into a linux box and use it. Anyone has any lsusb of that device ?
21:27 < phogg> Sane: write the program in a way that causes it to create such a file
21:27 < BerenErchamion> Not just JavaScript, but any proprietary software that violates the FOSS principles that we value so much
21:27 < neoncortex> It did, Debian have bug reports on that, it install some DRM thing without user consent
21:27 < neoncortex> I do not know if it still does that
21:28 < phogg> neoncortex: doubtful. If you have the bug number it will no doubt say
21:28 < Sane> phogg, not sure how it's related to an IRC eggdrop bot using botchk. I want it to create a dead.letter when crontab starts botchk
21:28 < phogg> Sane: and what would go in to that file?
21:29 < BerenErchamion> This is why I asked about chromium's history of installing proprietary software without your consent:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar1HMtQPvKs
21:29 < neoncortex> phogg: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=786909
21:29 < Psi-Jack> phogg: Guessing you don't know what a dead.letter file is? ;)
21:29 < Sane> It would tell me that it found the bot isn't running and that it's attempting to start it, showing me that entire process. phogg
21:29 < Psi-Jack> Sane: Though, I wonder if you do, either.
21:29 < neoncortex> Yeah, it's not DRM, it's the "ok google" thing
21:29 < BerenErchamion> That YouTube video was posted in 2015, so has this microphone issue been resolved since then?
21:30 < sl4ck> hi all. quick question. I have a thinderbird email manager and i maked a backup copy of the emails. What i want to ask. I have a new email and i want to import the backup from a different email account to the new email account. Thas posible?
21:30 < dgurney> dunno, see for yourself?
21:30 < dgurney> stallman won't kill your kitten, I promise
21:30 < Dagmar> It'll be fine.  Most people can't figure out how to get the mic working in the first place.  ;)
21:30 < phogg> Psi-Jack: I know what a dead.letter file is
21:31 < bls> sl4ck: mozilla has its own IRC server for support if you don't get a decent response here
21:31 < sl4ck> bls: channel?
21:31 < sl4ck> mozilla?
21:31 < bls> don't know, never been on it
21:31 < phogg> Sane: Let's start again
21:32 < meyou> sl4ck, #firefox
21:32 < phogg> Sane: you have a crontab entry which executes a program. The program takes an action. At some point it generates some text which you want to put in to a file. If it doesn't currently send that text to a file or to stdout or to stderr you need to modify the program until it does.
21:32 < meyou> they have an official chan on freenode
21:32 < hexnewbie> It took a whole month to fix that bug? Surely a reason to ask ambiguous questions about it 3 years later.
21:32 < Psi-Jack> systemd timers > cron ;)
21:32 < BerenErchamion> Chris Were never addresses the issue of how to disable that microphone module, or how serious a problem or threat it really is in that YouTube video, so it's kind of annoying the way he rants in that video about his moral concerns and fails to address technical issues
21:32 < phogg> Sane: If it does then tell me where it sends that text and I can tell you how to make it appear in a file called dead.letter.
21:32 < toothe> this CIS benchmark re-creates the wheel group.
21:32 < phogg> Psi-Jack: systemd-* < *
21:32 < toothe> which Linux doesn't have by default.
21:33 < bls> sl4ck: meyou: ah, it's #thunderbird on irc.mozilla.org according to the topic in #firefox
21:33 < hexnewbie> phogg: systemd-udev < devfs ?
21:33 < phogg> BerenErchamion: looks like the Debian version of chromium doesn't have this problem any more in any case
21:33 < Psi-Jack> Heh
21:33 < phogg> hexnewbie: systemd-udev < ed
21:33 < Psi-Jack> devfs was cool... Until udev actually made it better, finally.
21:34 < BerenErchamion> Does Linux Mint use the ubuntu version of chromium?
21:34 < dgurney> probably
21:34 < dgurney> again, you could easily check yourself
21:34 < Psi-Jack> Most likely, in fact.
21:34 < phogg> BerenErchamion: almost certainly; why don't you look at the package?
21:35 < BerenErchamion> so, are there any proprietary problems like the OK Google Mic issue with the ubuntu version of chromium?
21:35 < phogg> BerenErchamion: Ask chromium, ask Ubuntu. Why would we know?
21:36 < phogg> My mic is disabled at a hardware level so I don't have a problem with Chromium trying to use it. I also don't care if it downloads binary blobs so long as that doesn't make web pages stop loading.
21:37 < BerenErchamion> I already posted such a question in the chromium channel, and I can't access any of the ubuntu channels.  I switched to Linux Mint because of all the harassment problems I had every time I entered any of the ubuntu channels
21:37 < Psi-Jack> And definitely. systemd timers are awesome. systemctl list-timers shows you what's on schedule, when it'll run, when it last ran, and how long until it will run next, in human readable format.
21:37 < Sane> phogg - an old shell that I used to have, used to generate the dead.letter file for me. Here's an example of what it put inside: https://pastebin.com/SdpMTUtf
21:37 < neoncortex> phogg: maybe the binary blob are just activating mic, but maybe it's doing ssomething else, I don't think it's "ok"
21:37 < Psi-Jack> And, I don't have to write any custom logic in any timer service to log and mail, as... It's already DONE!
21:37 < Sane> phogg: just not sure how it created that file, since I know use my own shell that I host
21:38 < Sane> Since I now*
21:38 < Psi-Jack> Sane: Do you know what a 'dead.letter' file even is?
21:38 < phogg> Sane: so you want to capture the stdout and stderr of the process in to a file, yes?
21:38 < Sane> Yeah. Used to happen automatically for me though.
21:39 < ahtapot>  I want to export 2 below and 3 above lines of specific string in a text file. For example string "foo" occurs in 42nd line in foo.txt and i want to export lines number 39,40,41,42,43,44. Id appereciate any help
21:39 < Psi-Jack> Sane: 'dead.letter' is a file produced when a tool, such as mail/mailx, cron job, etc, tries to send an email, and is interupted or failed to do so.
21:40  * Sauvin likes snap over flatpak so far
21:40 < Sane> I see
21:40 < phogg> Psi-Jack: some MUAs also make them for unsaved emails upon SIGTERM
21:40 < Psi-Jack> Sauvin: Yeaaah.. Not sure, myself, yet. They both have their goods and bads.
21:40 < phogg> Sauvin: I'm interested in the details of why.
21:40 < Psi-Jack> snap does seem to integrate better with the general OS though, unlike flatpak
21:40 < Sane> Psi-Jack, how can I make sure it tries to do those things and fails to do so, thus creating that file?
21:41 < phogg> Sane: why would you want it to fail?!
21:41 < Sauvin> Under flatpak, I don't see how to get in to change some configs while the target app isn't running, whereas under snap I *can*.
21:41 < BerenErchamion> Aren't there ubuntu forums that can give you the most up-to-date information about proprietary problems relating to the ubuntu version of the chromium browser?
21:41 < Psi-Jack> Sane: Don't rely on that. Use systemd timers, have logs in journal, always. :)
21:41 < Sane> I see
21:41 < Psi-Jack> Sane: Again: dead.letter is when an email delivery is ATTEMPTED, /fails/, and thus, drops a dead.letter.
21:41 < phogg> Sane: if you want output of a cron job captured you can simply redirect it to a file.
21:41 < Sane> I haven't used Linux much in years, so that file was convenient for me
21:42 < Psi-Jack> It's an oldie.
21:42 < buffalodp> BerenErchamion, isn't google browser spyware?
21:42 < phogg> Sane: just add this to your crontab command: >dead.letter 2>&1
21:42 < Sane> Sweet
21:42 < Psi-Jack> Don't use dead.letter. :p
21:42 < phogg> Sane: you will get a file in the working dir named dead.letter every time. BUT!
21:42 < Psi-Jack> Redirect it to something actually useful.
21:42 < phogg> Sane: Do *not* call it dead.letter! This will confuse anyone else
21:42 < phogg> Sane: use some log dir instead of the working dir!
21:42 < Psi-Jack> ^ that too.
21:43 < Psi-Jack> And it might get overwritten by something else. :)
21:43 < phogg> Sane: consider *appending* to the file each time instead of overwriting it
21:43 < Psi-Jack> Or use systemd timers, and profit. :)
21:43 < Sane> 0,10,20,30,40,50 * * * * /home/Sane/Bollox/botchk >/dev/null 2>&1 <<< that is what I have loaded
21:43 < Sane> Should I add it to that
21:43 < phogg> Sane: that throws all output into /dev/null, which is nowhere
21:44 < Sane> Yeah, so it doesn't e-mail, I guess
21:44 < phogg> Sane: if you change >/dev/null to >>/tmp/botchk.out you will get the output into a file instead
21:45 < phogg> Sane: writing it somewhere other than /tmp is probably a good idea, too, but I'll leave choosing a better location up to you
21:45 < Sane> Well, the actual use location is fine /home/sane
21:45 < Sane> user
21:45 < Psi-Jack> Sane: Change the >/dev/null (which is nullifying all your output as-is), to /some/file/path
21:46 < Psi-Jack> Sane: Does that run as root, or your user?
21:47 < Sane> root, I think
21:47 < Psi-Jack> Don't run that as root, if it doesn't need to run as root.
21:47 < phogg> Sane: you *think*?! You'd better know for sure!
21:47 < Psi-Jack> LOL
21:48 < Psi-Jack> Seriously...
21:48 < Sane> I apologies for my lack of knowledge.
21:48 < edisonbulb> sudo echo "hi"
21:48 < phogg> Sane: if it runs as root you probably want to (a) not have the binary in a user's home dir, (b) put the log in /var/log
21:48 < Sane> Haven't touched this stuff in years
21:48 < Psi-Jack> Sane: That... Doesn't make things better. :)
21:48 < phogg> Sane: and (c) ... stop running as root
21:48 < Psi-Jack> In fact, that makes things .... Far worse, hoenstly.
21:48 < phogg> edisonbulb: you don't need sudo for that
21:49 < edisonbulb> phogg, exactly
21:49 < phogg> edisonbulb: ?
21:49 < Psi-Jack> Sane: Are you the only one that touches that server? Is it internet-exposed at all?
21:49 < Sane> Yeah, I host the shell myself and am the only user
21:50 < edisonbulb> you were talking about not running commands that don't need root as root
21:50 < Sane> At present it's off
21:50 < BCMM> <phogg> Sane: if it runs as root you probably want to (a) not have the binary in a user's home dir
21:50 < Psi-Jack> Sane: Yeah.... You realize if you haven't touched that system in years, and it's internet facing, and has no security updates, etc, that it's likely compromised?
21:50 < BCMM> ^and particularly should not be writable to the user!
21:51 < Psi-Jack> As long as it's been up and running of course.
21:51 < Sane> Nah, it was off for a while. Just started using it again
21:51 < edisonbulb> where can i download binaries of a defconfig torvalds kernel stable
21:51 < edisonbulb> my computer doens't have enough ram to survive the final link
21:51 < phogg> edisonbulb: I could make you one I guess. Otherwise I don't know.
21:52 < solidfox> edisonbulb, get moar ram
21:52 < edisonbulb> phogg, that would be great! how long would that take?
21:53 < Psi-Jack> Sane: I see.
21:53 < phogg> edisonbulb: depends on how many games I play meanwhile
21:53 < Psi-Jack> Woo, that's a least somewhat a relief. :)
21:53 < neoncortex> edisonbulb: how many ram do you have?
21:53 < edisonbulb> k :)
21:53 < edisonbulb> 6 GiB
21:53 < solidfox> edisonbulb, yer gonna let someone else build a kernel for ya, and then yer gonna run it?
21:53 < solidfox> edisonbulb, that's a bad idea
21:53 < bls> could also an issue if the kernel is using -pipe for the compilation. getting rid of that might take some pressure off the RAM
21:53 < solidfox> edisonbulb, you don't know this phogg guy
21:53 < edisonbulb> it's not being used for networking, who gives af
21:53 < solidfox> edisonbulb, he's pretty shady if you ask me!
21:54 < solidfox> ah whatever then
21:54  * phogg is a pretty shady character
21:54 < phogg> oh wait you said that
21:54 < Psi-Jack> Yeah. A systemd hater, too.
21:54 < phogg> see solidfox knows what's up
21:54 < Psi-Jack> All kinds of foul. ;)
21:54 < solidfox> Only an evil hacker would offer you binaries like that.
21:55 < neoncortex> but 6G is suppoesed to be enough to compile anything I know of
21:55 < phogg> neoncortex: oh no, not close. Try Firefox. Try Xorg!
21:55 < Sauvin> Yup. See ya next month.
21:55 < bls> are you trying to compile as a normal user? you could be hitting ulimit or cgroup limits?
21:55 < edisonbulb> every single proprietary program made for windows must have been made by evil hackers
21:56 < bls> so rather than 6G, you're only actually getting 1G
21:56 < neoncortex> I did it in the past, I even compiled KDE and on i386 with 4G of ram
21:56 < edisonbulb> well i made a few tweaks to the config
21:56 < solidfox> phogg, firefox is a backdoor and a rip-off as well :DD
21:56 < edisonbulb> i want the modules statically linked in
21:56 < Sauvin> They're ALL backdoors and rip-offs.
21:57 < edisonbulb> and initramfs support turned off
21:57 < bls> ...so not a torvalds defconfig
21:57 < edisonbulb> was gonna get to that in a moment
21:59 < edisonbulb> but there's really no harm malware can do on a machine with no network access and the pci card for networking ripped out right
21:59 < phogg> edisonbulb: You keep telling yourself that.
21:59 < edisonbulb> LOL
22:00 < neoncortex> edisonbulb: no, your machine will communicate via modulated frequencies through your sound speakers xD
22:00 < phogg> okay so I'm not saying I know how or care to try to break in to your systems using only the power of sound
22:00 < phogg> I just know that it has been done
22:00 < solidfox> Sauvin, HTTP Ain't free. The connection's gotta be litterd with the blood of REST. Mozilla Firefox aka "netscape" is not my browser. it is a backdoor and probbaly a rip-off as well :DD. Google and W3 not mozilla and khtml ok. praise GNU.
22:00 < neoncortex> there's a guy who 'found' it, see badbios
22:00  * Sauvin hands solidfox some Prozac
22:00 < solidfox> thanks
22:00 < phogg> neoncortex: yeah, that's the one. Since then other people have produced more limited tests confirming the basic theory.
22:01 < solidfox> Sauvin, what's this for?
22:01 < phogg> solidfox: it's candy
22:01 < edisonbulb> well maybe i'll just try doing a defconfig
22:01 < edisonbulb> i don't know how to construct an initramfs though
22:01 < badsekter> solidfox: what do you mean firefox is a backdoor?
22:01 < Sauvin> It's to help restore your Zen-like serenity.
22:01 < phogg> it's about time I built a new kernel anyway
22:02 < solidfox> badsekter, I heard that it gets hacked first every year at pwn2own
22:02 < solidfox> badsekter, but I was just joking
22:02 < solidfox> badsekter, also someday I hope to have a good use of that meme
22:02 < edisonbulb> honestly firefox seems a bit shady
22:02 < phogg> mozilla have gone a bit off the rails this decade
22:03 < bls> is there a modern browser out there that doesn't seem shady?
22:03 < phogg> I wouldn't call it shady, just not quite as trustworthy as before
22:03 < solidfox> bls, I use dillo
22:03 < solidfox> jk
22:03 < phogg> solidfox: dillo is not a modern browser
22:03 < neoncortex> I used to like xombrero, but it's abandoned
22:03 < solidfox> phogg, haha
22:03 < edisonbulb> the modern web is too bloated imo, try disabling javascript. nothing will work
22:04 < neoncortex> just an interface to webkit anyway, I think I can write one of those
22:04 < edisonbulb> most sites don't even use the standard video and audio elements, they use some crappy javascript rendition
22:04 < phogg> neoncortex: one day maybe the engine maintenance and chrome maintenance will be done as separate projects so it's not so hard to keep using newer engines with older UIs
22:04 < bls> here, take this code from an author/project you've never heard of off a server you shouldn't trust and execute it on your machine...
22:06 < solidfox> this is the only channel I'm in that's active right now.
22:06 < edisonbulb> i run a wordpress blog and it drives me crazy that linking to a .wav file causes it to embed a javascript player instead of an <audio> taf
22:06 < edisonbulb> *tag
22:06 < phogg> edisonbulb: I don't *try* disabling JS, I literally run with *ALL JS AND CSS* off by default. Images, cookies and iframes, too. I whitelist *everything*.
22:06 < neoncortex> phogg: as far as I know Chrome uses webkit, and webkit development have nothing to do with Chrome .. Or I get it wrong
22:06 < solidfox> I always run js and flash by default
22:07 < phogg> neoncortex: chrome != the browser Google Chrome, chrome is the name for the parts of the browser that aren't the web page (the UI, aka the chrome).
22:07 < neoncortex> oh
22:07 < edisonbulb> flash *obviously* has top-notch security
22:07 < edisonbulb> </s>
22:07 < phogg> neoncortex: unpack firefox some time, look for chrome.xul
22:07 < solidfox> edisonbulb, hey give me my angle brackets back
22:08 < edisonbulb> i'm pretty sure the web was designed to display documents for reading
22:08 < edisonbulb> everything else seems shoehorned in there
22:08 < phogg> edisonbulb: not documents so much as scientific journals
22:09 < solidfox> if only it were still that way
22:09 < solidfox> but then I wouldn't have a job
22:09 < solidfox> nah nvm, there's always regular gui apps
22:10 < phogg> solidfox: It's not so bad. The web is a client rendered, cross-platform, cross-vendor display server with multiple, compatible independent implementations for every platform known to man.
22:10 < edisonbulb> so my kernel built fine until i ran out of memory the other day
22:10 < mawk> 1 MiB on the stack isn't too much ?
22:10 < edisonbulb> not it's telling me i need some package called libelf-devb
22:10 < edisonbulb> *libelf-dev
22:10 < phogg> solidfox: it's NeWS only way, WAY less coherent.
22:10 < phogg> solidfox: the fact that it exists at all means that we somehow lucked into the GOOD universe where pretty much everything went right.
22:10 < Bushmaster> hello
22:11 < Bushmaster> i need some help with my Debian
22:11 < edisonbulb> Cannot generate ORC metadata for CONFIG_UNWINDER_ORC=y, please install libelf-dev, libelf-devel or elfutils-libelf-devel".  Stop.
22:11 < jml2> Bushmaster, what do you mean you need help? ask the stupid question
22:11 < jml2> LOL
22:11 < phogg> edisonbulb: you are missing a package
22:11 < mawk> please don't attack people jml2
22:11 < phogg> jml2: you never know, it might not be a stupid question
22:11 < edisonbulb> hmm
22:11 < edisonbulb> weird
22:11 < jml2> nothing wrong asking stupid question
22:11 < jml2> just ask. dont ask to ask.
22:12 < Bushmaster> jml2,  thanks, well, i installed Debian 64 bit but i think its source list is shit
22:12 < edisonbulb> maybe i made a typo when i tried to install it the first time
22:12 < neoncortex> One of the things I find annoying is that it enforces JavaScript on you, I mean, it can perfectly work with PHP for example, but no, it needs to be JavaScript
22:12 < mawk> don't say thanks to someone who says that you ask stupid question Bushmaster , what are you doing
22:12 < Bushmaster> can I can make proper debian update jml2
22:12 < jml2> Bushmaster, ok then, apt-get install netselect-apt , and cd ~ (/root) netselect-apt -c <country>
22:12 < neoncortex> there's some dub sites that will not even display content without JavaScript enabled
22:12 < jml2> Bushmaster, then that gives you the fastest sources
22:12 < neoncortex> #dumb
22:12 < edisonbulb> youtube is completely broken without javascript
22:12 < jml2> Bushmaster, /root/sources.list will get created (neselect-apt makes sample sources.list in current directory)
22:13 < Bushmaster> jml2,  can I pastebin the source list
22:13 < jml2> Bushmaster, no need to
22:13 < noodlepie> Isn't apt-get deprecated in facor of "apt"? In Debian I mean.
22:13 < edisonbulb> which is dumb because everything it needs to do is supported by HTML5 spec
22:13 < phogg> noodlepie: no
22:13 < jml2> Bushmaster, if you dont have a proper sources.list, just copy the one from /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/
22:13 < noodlepie> oh ok
22:13 < jml2> Bushmaster, and use that temporarily, so that you can install netselect-apt
22:13 < Bushmaster> jml2,  i am not fluent in Linux
22:13 < r1ppa> I have php modules, all installed at 7.0.29, when I try to run "yum update php70u*" I get http://pastebin.centos.org/744751/ , not sure where the idea of 7.0.15-1 came into play
22:14 < phogg> noodlepie: You can use apt-get, aptitude or apt by your preference. It so happens that apt is a simpler front end for simpler folk which probably satisfies most.
22:14 < Bushmaster> jml2,  here is the source list https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/tCQdrbgfxp/
22:14 < jml2> Bushmaster, cp /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/sources.list /etc/apt/
22:14 < edisonbulb> does apt use apt-get
22:14 < edisonbulb> or was it meant to replace apt-get
22:14 < jml2> Bushmaster, apt-get update, apt-get install netselect-apt
22:14 < noodlepie> Oh, OK! @:P-~
22:14 < jml2> Bushmaster, apt-get or "apt" commands do the same
22:14 < Bushmaster> what it will do jml2
22:14 < solidfox> jml2, apt looks better
22:14 < jml2> Bushmaster, it is up to you whether you want to type "apt" or "apt-get"
22:15 < solidfox> jml2, but the name is less understandable
22:15 < edisonbulb> back in mahhhh dayeee.....
22:15 < jml2> Bushmaster, type "man apt-get" -- to know what "apt-get update" does
22:15 < Bushmaster> have you looked into my souce list jml2
22:15 < edisonbulb> "apt-get update" updates the source lists, "apt-get upgrade" updates the packages
22:15 < phogg> edisonbulb: apt cannot replace apt-get since it doesn't support all of its features. I believe they both merely use the same libraries and neither calls the other, but I could be mistaken.
22:16 < jml2> Bushmaster, i cant tell what is the fastest server for you
22:16 < jml2> Bushmaster, netselect-apt can determine that for you
22:16 < jml2> Bushmaster, netselect-apt will generate a working sources.list with the fastest server from your location.
22:16 < jml2> so its irrelevant for me to "figure out" your fastest server
22:17 < edisonbulb> confusing when i moved to fedora bc "dnf update" does not do the same thing as "apt update"
22:17 < jml2> by default netselect-apt is not installed, so you need a place to get it from "somewhere"
22:17 < phogg> edisonbulb: that's because fedora has a dumb operating model.
22:18 < jml2> edisonbulb, hey edison how does it feel to know your bulb is no longer in favor of the new "led" technology :p
22:18 < edisonbulb> My aesthetic has been replicated using LED technology
22:18 < edisonbulb> my legacy will continue
22:18 < phogg> does dnf improve on yum's braindamaged "list" behavior? I've not tried it.
22:19 < jml2> edisonbulb, you fired tesla because he was more smart than you
22:19 < jml2> edisonbulb, and you know it!
22:19 < jml2> edisonbulb, AC >> DC
22:19 < phogg> jml2: he's just the bulb not Edison humself.
22:19 < phogg> s/hum/him/
22:20 < jml2> the bulb hums like an electrofying mannequin
22:20 < edisonbulb> my creator was flawed and could not see the benefits of alternating current
22:20 < jml2> edison was a prick, he electrocuted an elephant in public just to show how dangerous AC is.
22:21 < edisonbulb> jml2, that's actually a myth
22:21 < jml2> edisonbulb, its not a myth
22:21 < edisonbulb> makes for a great bob's burgers episode though
22:21 < jml2> edisonbulb, it's in history -- you can read up about it online -- i know the edison story :p
22:21 < edisonbulb> he did electrocute animals though
22:21 < jml2> edisonbulb, it was DC vs AC in those days..
22:21 < edisonbulb> just not that specific animal
22:21 < jml2> edisonbulb, edison didn't like tesla... the two grew to hate each other.. and edison hated
22:21 < phogg> edisonbulb: there was an elephant incident; he bought an aged one from a zoo
22:22 < phogg> you can read newspaper reports about it
22:22 < edisonbulb> it is weird how edison continued to promote an obviously inferior method of power transmission
22:23 < edisonbulb> just because of his rivalry
22:23 < Bru-> the latest kernel break anyone's wifi by chance?
22:23 < jml2> edisonbulb, so was his original lightbulb, which only lasted 30 seconds :p... only had a thin cotton filament... so that inspired other industrials to look for something that can last longer
22:23 < edisonbulb> can't you electrofry animals with DC current too?
22:23 < jml2> edisonbulb, but he wasn't a genius in everything.. he was a dumb mathematician..
22:24 < edisonbulb> jml2, i get it, i don't worship edison
22:24 < jml2> edisonbulb, probably you cant.. because AC is always penetrating...
22:24 < edisonbulb> i just like the warm glow if vintage lightbulbs
22:25 < jml2> edisonbulb, with enough DC and being in water, perhaps you may want to test DC with an electric eel
22:26 < jml2> edisonbulb, the clueles laymen who say Edison invented electricity should be placed in a bathtub with an electric eel
22:26 < jml2> yep
22:26 < edisonbulb> wow, i didn't know people hated edison this strongly
22:26 < phogg> edisonbulb: edison was a dick
22:26 < edisonbulb> i knew he was controversial but damn
22:27 < jml2> edisonbulb, its in the books
22:27 < phogg> edisonbulb: classic example of a businessman winning on the backs of engineers doing the actual work
22:27 < jml2> edisonbulb, also graham bell was a jerk... he shafted other inventors of similar phone devices...
22:28 < codebam> how can I use setxkbmap to set 2 us variants at the same time?
22:28 < codebam> so that I can alternate between them
22:28 < phogg> edison was way worse. He tried to control the use of ideas, not just technology, and ruthlessly acted to stifle competition even when it was better tech. We got good results *despite* his best efforts, not because of them.
22:29 < jml2> Bushmaster, after you update your sources or things in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/  -- you can show them and I can tell you if you're missing something
22:29 < Bushmaster> jml2,  did I paste you
22:29 < phogg> codebam: On a guess I'd assume you just invoke setxkbmap each time you want to switch.
22:29 < neoncortex> codebam: it's not easier to set a variant, use, then change, use, then change again ..
22:29 < Bushmaster> the source list jml2
22:29 < jml2> Bushmaster, saw nothing here
22:30 < Bushmaster> jml2,  https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/tCQdrbgfxp/
22:30 < bug> edison was the bill gates of his day. a genius at shafting people with contracts, by no means a technical genius.
22:30 < Bushmaster> this is my source list jml2
22:30 < jml2> Bushmaster, that's not updated
22:30 < codebam> phogg: well I'm only asking because I know you can set more than one language layout at a time
22:30 < edisonbulb> anyway i think most of the credit for the development of electronics should go to people like alessandro volta, michael faraday, and benjamin franklin
22:30 < codebam> neoncortex: what?
22:30 < jml2> Bushmaster, did you use netselect-apt ?
22:31 < jml2> Bushmaster, it should ping/test the fastest server for you (netselect-apt -c uk)
22:31 < jml2> Bushmaster, you want the fastest server right?
22:31 < codebam> neoncortex: the problem with that is that I don't know how to type in the variant yet and I'd like an easy way to be able to toggle back and forth (like with my x applet)
22:31 < neoncortex> codebam: if you want layout x, set layout x and use it, when you want layout y, set layout y and use it, that's what I'm saying =D
22:32 < codebam> neoncortex: the issue is that I can't change back lol
22:32 < codebam> because I don't know colemak
22:32 < Bushmaster> jml2,  i want to install 2.18 version of QGIS in my Debian https://www.qgis.org/en/site/forusers/alldownloads.html#debian-ubuntu
22:32 < jml2> Bushmaster, there's 21 mirrors in the uk..
22:32 < jml2> Bushmaster, the one you have is the default one
22:32 < edisonbulb> patents are really an issue with any kind of tech company though
22:33 < Bushmaster> jml2,  do I need to change it
22:33 < edisonbulb> i hate them
22:33 < edisonbulb> but that's not gonna convince anyone
22:33 < jml2> Bushmaster, netselect-apt -c uk, will generate one for you
22:33 < jml2> Bushmaster, then you can copy that sources.list to /etc/apt/
22:34 < jml2> Bushmaster, then edit it to add backports
22:34 < Bushmaster> jml2,  i will leave it for now
22:34 < Bushmaster> i am short of time
22:34 < Bushmaster> may be i will have to do it some other time, i just need QGIS 2.18 version in it
22:34 < jml2> Bushmaster, it's safe-proof.. it generates a workable sources.list
22:34 < neoncortex> codebam: When I do something like that to my use, I write a shell script that echo to dmenu the options, then throw the result in a if/else thing to decide what to do with it .. but it requires you to know the name of layouts
22:35 < jml2> Bushmaster, and you're missing even non-free and contrib
22:35 < codebam> neoncortex: I might add a toggle to my status bar
22:35 < codebam> that would work
22:35 < Bushmaster> jml2,  i will speak with you some other time, i cant do it now
22:35 < neoncortex> that too
22:35 < jml2> Bushmaster, ok good luck with 'em GIS
22:36 < jml2> lol
22:36 < codebam> neoncortex: because dmenu would work, but only if I know where my dmenu trigger key is
22:37 < Bushmaster> jml2,  i will consult you
22:38 < jml2> Bushmaster, your queen sux btw
22:38 < jml2> Bushmaster, but it's ok you can ask me again later LOL
22:38  * jml2 MWHAHAHAHAA
22:39 < Bushmaster> jml2,  I am not English
22:39 < Bushmaster> I just live in the England jml2
22:39 < Bru-> hmm the new kernel borked my wifi
22:39 < jml2> Bushmaster, you're a spy!!!
22:40 < Bushmaster> jml2,  in my own domain yes
22:40 < bls> jml2: he's stayed away and/or been banned for a while, no point starting this garbage up again
22:41 < jml2> bls, yeah but it's fun XD
22:41 < jml2> Bushmaster, << is having an affair with the queen of ENGLAND!
22:41  * jml2 hides XDXDXD hahahaa
22:42 < Psi-Jack> God save the queen!
22:42 < Psi-Jack> From jml2 !
22:42 < jml2> :)
22:42 < Bushmaster> jml2,  i would rather sniff ungulates
22:42 < kazdax> hey how important is pattern matching or regonistion in computer science
22:42 < kazdax> specially pattern finding
22:44 < bls> kazdax: very
22:45  * jml2 https://plus.google.com/+SwapnilBhartiya/posts/igeKHUHQGLb  XD
22:45 < jml2> Psi-Jack, hey ^ jack I have a task for you! help dah swapnil! LOL
22:45 < jml2> Psi-Jack, ""opensource command hero"" XD
22:46 < Psi-Jack> Linode? *closes*
22:46 < mawk> in netlink where are constants from enum rtnetlink_groups used ?
22:46 < jml2> tehehe linode...
22:46 < mawk> the old constants are called "backwards compatibility for userspace", can I use the new style constants from enum rtnetlink_groups from userspace ?
22:47 < edisonbulb> yay my kernel is done
22:48 < edisonbulb> now i just need to figure out how to construct an initramfs
22:48 < mawk> how are you going to call it
22:48 < mawk> edisonbulbOS ?
22:48 < mawk> is the usr/ you've got tools to do it edisonbulb
22:48 < mawk> and examples
22:48 < mawk> usr/gen_init_cpio
22:49 < edisonbulb> gonna run all this in qemu
22:49 < mawk> yeah
22:52 < edisonbulb> does the root= option still work in a defconfig
22:52 < edisonbulb> that would be nice
22:53 < edisonbulb> i'd imagine not because the modules aren't present yet
22:53 < edisonbulb> dafuq
22:53 < mawk> why not ?
22:53 < mawk> it's a netsplit
22:54 < mawk> why wouldn't it work ? the root= isn't ran by a module
22:54 < edisonbulb> but doesn't it need a FS module
22:54 < edisonbulb> to actually be able to parse the filesystem and find /init
22:55 < jml2> edisonbulb, the kernel has a squashfs mod -- it's built in afaik for being able to read intird
22:56 < jml2> edisonbulb, depends... here i see my initramfs are cpio archives
22:56 < jml2> edisonbulb, norms change even with things dracut
22:56 < jml2> edisonbulb, /etc/initramfs*/
22:57 < jml2> edisonbulb, when you run your didsotr's update-<my initramfs> script, it looks at those path thing settings
22:57 < jml2> edisonbulb, then generates an initrd image into /boot
22:57 < edisonbulb> trying to build an image for qemu
22:57 < edisonbulb> i'm busy atm but i will be back
22:57 < edisonbulb> with updates
23:05 < jml2> jc
23:06 < jml2> my zimbook just closed :/
23:06 < za1b1tsu> what do mobile OS do linux guys use? I'm not very happy with android
23:06 < koala_man> I'm very happy with Android
23:06 < edisonbulb> there's replicant
23:07 < turkeyhand> replicant isn't finished
23:08 < turkeyhand> or working at all
23:08 < edisonbulb> i think purism has a mobile os they're gonna put on their librem phones
23:09 < onla> pokemon go doesnt work on other than ios or android
23:10 < bug> lineageos works for me
23:10 < jml2> edisonbulb, the librepurism project will also support installation of utouch (ubuntu's touch)
23:10 < onla> bug: was that for me?
23:10 < edisonbulb> isn't ubuntu touch discontinued
23:10 < jml2> edisonbulb, true
23:10 < onla> oh wait sorry,
23:10 < jml2> edisonbulb, but this is "utouch" :p
23:11 < jml2> edisonbulb, folks from the ubuntu touch team who want to see it thrive
23:11 < edisonbulb> oooh
23:11 < jml2> ubports
23:11 < jml2> hard to keep up with their nick names XD
23:12  * jml2 https://www.zdnet.com/article/ubuntu-touch-lives-on-in-purisms-librem-5-smartphone/
23:13 < jml2> if they can show me a working phone, i will order one next january...
23:13 < jml2> sick of these locked-in apps on my android phone -- i dont have time to figure out how to safely jailroot this.
23:13 < jml2> "ANDROID"
23:13 < edisonbulb> heck i'll order a bunch and send them to everyone i know
23:13 < jml2> >:|
23:14 < edisonbulb> the power of free software compels you
23:14 < edisonbulb> here's a phone
23:14 < ayecee> it burns!
23:14 < bug> [14:06] za1b1tsu, what don't you like about android?
23:14 < jml2> it's also a battery drainer...  some app is soaking my battery really fast.. and I have no idea which one.
23:14 < jml2> lol
23:15 < jml2> despite metrics available built into the phone, this phone needs a more often recharge ... there's always some kind of background daemon running from apps I never use.
23:16 < jml2> and the metrics are useless..
23:16 < za1b1tsu> bug: latest thing that bugs me, the search app box when you search for installed apps it's stupid. For example I have a myWorkout app, if search for Work, it does not show up. I need to type my
23:17 < za1b1tsu> if you have multiple aps installed and dont remember their exact name it's pain to search for them.
23:18 < nickjj> can someone on debian or ubuntu do me a quick favor? visual studio code's download page is busted for windows users who want to download the deb package to install it elsewhere -- can someone head over to https://code.visualstudio.com/insiders/ and paste the download link to the insider's .deb package?
23:20 < bug> yeh, i wouldn't bother buying a phone without a pre-existing root method, custom recovery, and custom rom. also removable battery and removable storage.
23:21 < edisonbulb> eww all of these tutorials for qemu just tell you to slap busybox in a cpio and run it
23:21 < koala_man> nickjj: click "Download" on the top right
23:21 < edisonbulb> i want a read-write fs, that will not work
23:21 < jml2> edisonbulb, I suggest you use virsh, qemu/kvm binaries from bash imho are too hard for most XD
23:22 < nickjj> koala_man, the problem is vscode's page only shows the the windows binary links
23:22 < jml2> nickjj, you want help on MS  VStudio here on ##linux?
23:22 < nickjj> jml2, vscode is cross platform
23:22 < jml2> nickjj, and for "Windows" ?
23:22  * jml2 smells a troll!
23:22 < edisonbulb> VSCode works on linux
23:22 < koala_man> nickjj: the URL you gave me only shows MacOS for me, and if I go click "Download" in the top right I get Windows, Linux and Mac links
23:22 < edisonbulb> it's in the ubuntu software store
23:23 < nickjj> yes but my situation is non-standard, otherwise i would have it already
23:23 < za1b1tsu> vscode is actually one of the few things that m$ did good
23:23 < koala_man> nickjj: if you say so..  https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=760868
23:23 < edisonbulb> not exactly sure how ms profits from VS Code though
23:24 < nickjj> koala_man, is that the link to the insider's build or the regular one?
23:24 < koala_man> regular one probably
23:24 < za1b1tsu> edisonbulb: maybe it's marketing.. improves it's image
23:24 < nickjj> because the regular one can be found with any OS, the insider's build is only available on the URL i pasted
23:24 < koala_man> ah
23:25 < edisonbulb> really the only thing i would buy from MS is hardware
23:25 < edisonbulb> their surface tabs are kickass
23:25 < jml2> nickjj, << must be Steve Ballmer
23:25 < jml2> who is living his lively retirement trolling us to download Vstudio code...
23:26 < jml2> hhmmpmmmhh!!!
23:26 < koala_man> nickjj: https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=760865
23:26 < jml2> balllmmmerrrr!!!!!!!
23:26 < nickjj> the reason i asked is because i'm using WSL which is basically userland ubuntu on windows, but vscode can run through it using x server
23:26 < jml2> you cannnceeeerrrr!!!!!!!!
23:26 < Psi-Jack> nickjj: WSL isn't supported here.
23:26 < Psi-Jack> At all.
23:26 < jml2> yeah he's trolling from the beginning as well
23:26 < edisonbulb> WSL isn't even linux
23:26 < nickjj> and my browser is installed through windows, so vscode's page is trying to get cute and limiting which download links you can see based on your current OS
23:26 < edisonbulb> it runs on top of windows
23:26 < BCMM> Psi-Jack: i wonder if #ubuntu deals with it...
23:26 < Psi-Jack> nickjj: WSL isn't supported here. Still. Please cease.
23:26 < nickjj> koala_man, thanks that works
23:27 < Psi-Jack> BCMM: Doubt it. Hope not. There's no actual linux kernel running. :)
23:27 < jml2> nickjj, go eat a herring bitch
23:27 < edisonbulb> it's a compatibility layer on top of the NT kernel
23:27 < koala_man> I replaced "osx" with "linux64_deb" in the URL :P
23:27 < edisonbulb> no Linux involved
23:27 < BCMM> Psi-Jack: well, it's kind of Canonical's problem - it's an official Ubuntu-branded release and all that
23:28 < Psi-Jack> BCMM: Maybe they have a dedicated channel specific to WSL.
23:28 < Psi-Jack> *shrugs*
23:28 < nickjj> Psi-Jack, i wasn't asking for support btw, just trying to bypass vscode's crippled website but it's all good now -- it's installed and working great since koala_man dropped me the link
23:28 < Psi-Jack> Keep in mind, we still don't support WSL here. We support Linux. WSL is not Linux.
23:28 < edisonbulb> wait
23:29 < edisonbulb> why you running vscode on top of WSL anyway
23:29 < Psi-Jack> LOL
23:29 < jml2> edisonbulb, because he's as bald-dumb as ballmer himself
23:29 < koala_man> Psi-Jack: don't forget Android and VPSs and all other things that are also not relevant to mention in this case
23:29 < jml2> LOL
23:29 < jml2> sorry for all the bald-people XD
23:29 < bls> maybe you could run kvm on wsl then run windows in kvm then run vscode in windows to get the true visual studio experience
23:29 < nickjj> edisonbulb, because WSL recently added support for proper file permissions but if a windows process writes to a file, it wipes that new support out
23:30 < Psi-Jack> koala_man: Those weren't relevant. Why would I add those uselessly? :p
23:30 < nickjj> so the windows version of vscode is unreasonable to use, because every time you save a file its permissions get set to 755
23:30 < edisonbulb> ah
23:30 < koala_man> Psi-Jack: because you added WSL uselessly even though no one asked anything about WSL
23:30 < nickjj> but running vscode within WSL gets around that since technically a "linux based" process is doing the save
23:30 < Psi-Jack> It's 100% WSL.
23:31 < koala_man> Psi-Jack: It's 0% WSL and 100% React.js being broken on the website
23:31 < nickjj> if you guys can convince camtasia to make a linux port of their video editing tool i'd insta uninstall windows 10 :D
23:31 < triceratux> nickjj: its all about the posix compliant filesystem then ?
23:31 < Psi-Jack> It's 100% WSL as he's not even running Linux. Period, end of story. Don't pass go, go directly to jail.
23:31 < nickjj> i already offered to send them money and start a kickstarter but they ignored me because i'm just a lowly single entity
23:32 < jml2> nickjj, your bandwidth can't afford camtasia that's how bad you are at the internet ya noob
23:32 < jml2> nickjj, nubbler.
23:33 < edisonbulb> really taken to its logical conclusion only support for the kernel should be supplied in ##linxu
23:33 < edisonbulb> *##linux
23:33 < Psi-Jack> And Linux interoperability, but this was neither.
23:33 < mawk> yeah
23:33 < mawk> just create ##GNU/Linux
23:33 < edisonbulb> gnu/linux doesn't exist tho
23:34 < edisonbulb> there are a ton of different gnu/linux distros
23:34 < edisonbulb> with differences between each other
23:34 < Psi-Jack> edisonbulb: No. :p
23:35 < Psi-Jack> There's better places for strictly Linux (the kernel) talk. ##linux, however is a GNU/Linux support channel, generally speaking.
23:35 < Psi-Jack> ##kernel is more about Linux (the kernel), as well as the LKML.
23:36 < Psi-Jack> And now, I step away, head home, and enjoy my drive. :)
23:38 < koala_man> Psi-Jack: the rules don't say that you can't come ask GNU/Linux questions if you're currently on a different platform.
23:38 < edisonbulb> i have a kind of unpopular view of the gnu/linux thing. to me, linux is an operating system, GNU/Linux is a family of linux distributions, and each distribution is what users usually call an "OS"
23:38 < bls> can't see how that'd be unpopular
23:39 < edisonbulb> some prefer to think of an operating system as a complete set of utilities combined with a kernel
23:39 < edisonbulb> where i think of a kernel as actually *being* an os
23:39 < mutante> are you saying you decided that Operating System and "OS" aren't the same thing anymore ?:)
23:39 < edisonbulb> no
23:40 < BCMM> edisonbulb: i see an operating system as a platform you can run software on
23:40 < BCMM> i.e. at very least, linux + libc
23:40 < edisonbulb> i think the term "distribution" is a more fitting term for the combined set of utilities
23:40 < kekePower> edisonbulb: So you'
23:40 < bls> you could call just a kernel an OS, but it's not actually going to be capable of doing anything
23:40 < BCMM> edisonbulb: but really, linux + the stuff needed for approximate posix compatibility
23:40 < kekePower> you're saying you can run a computer with only the kernel?
23:40 < edisonbulb> you can but it's not gonna do anything
23:40 < BCMM> since that's the API applications target
23:41 < edisonbulb> you don't even need libc technically
23:41 < edisonbulb> if you wrote a bunch of asm programs
23:41 < BCMM> the OS is the thing that mediates between applications and the hardware - no point drawing an arbitrary line where kernel space ends
23:41 < bls> so an operating system minus the operating part
23:41 < kekePower> bls: touchè
23:41 < jamiejackson> what's `- >` in `aws s3 cp "${BATCH_FILE_S3_URL}" - > "${TMPFILE}"`?
23:42 < bls> jamiejackson: - traditionally means write to stdout/read from stdin, > is redirection of output to a file
23:42 < kekePower> jamiejackson: "-" is standard output and ">" redirects this output to a file
23:42 < kekePower> or what bls said
23:42 < toothe> hm..this control says to remove legacy +'s
23:42 < toothe> what is a legacy +?
23:42 < koala_man> in other words, "-" and ">" are completely independent even if they look like an arrow or something
23:43 < toothe> A legacy + from /etc/passwd.
23:43 < kekePower> koala_man: yes
23:43 < BCMM> jamiejackson: to clarify the above slightly, there is a bit of a unix convention that providing "-" as a filename means "print to stdout instead of saving to a file"
23:43 < edisonbulb> yes | cat - > useless_file.txt
23:43 < kekePower> koala_man: there is a space between them
23:43 < kekePower> edisonbulb: hehe
23:43 < BCMM> (but this isn't always the case, and with some programs it will just create a file called -)
23:43 < bls> edisonbulb: caution with that one
23:44 < jamiejackson> okay, i think i've got it, thanks. i didn't google well. :)
23:44 < toothe> This STIG literally tells me to disable Xorg.
23:44 < jamiejackson> *it* didn't google well, i meant.
23:44 < toothe> So basically, removing functionality that has a legitimate purpose is "security"
23:44 < bls> edisonbulb: you can get banned for posting destruction or DoS commands
23:45 < BCMM> is `cat -` different from `cat` in any functional way?
23:45 < BCMM> toothe: whether it has a "legitimate purpose" depends on the context
23:46 < BCMM> toothe: i mean, is this a server?
23:46 < kekePower> BCMM: depends on what you want/need to do
23:46 < edisonbulb> sorry
23:46 < BCMM> kekePower: i mean, cat reads stdin by default right?
23:47 < kekePower> BCMM: that I really don't know for certain. Haven't read the man page
23:47 < koala_man> BCMM: no, but it's useful in other constructs like  cat header.txt -
23:47 < bls> like any other cat invocation, it's mainly useful with more than one file/argument
23:47 < BCMM> koala_man: ok, that one does make sense
23:47 < bls> echo foo | cat file1 - file2
23:47 < edisonbulb> you could even do something like "cat file1.txt - file2.txt"
23:47 < edisonbulb> oops
23:47 < edisonbulb> too late
23:48 < edisonbulb> wow
23:49 < edisonbulb> i honestly didn't even know that was a DoS type command
23:49 < kekePower> edisonbulb: think about it
23:49 < edisonbulb> wc took forever to count the file
23:49 < kekePower> it'll fill up a disk fast
23:50 < jml2> pff
23:50 < jml2> cat /etc/urandom >file.txt
23:50 < jml2> a no brainer
23:50 < bls> random config files? sounds like fun
23:50 < ayecee> that's a bit slow
23:50 < BCMM> edisonbulb: if you see somebody using `yes` in any way other than piping to an interactive program, there's like a 99% chance it's some kind of resource-eater
23:51 < uplime> you'd need a pretty small disk for yes | cat > file to fill it up
23:51 < edisonbulb> tee is my favorite command
23:51 < edisonbulb> so versatile
23:51 < bls> that or not know what you're doing, paste it into a CLI, and wait for it to "finish"
23:52 < koala_man> uplime: I think you'll find that infinite data can fill up just about anything
23:52 < BCMM> uplime: did you press enter too early?
23:52 < uplime> BCMM: nope
23:52 < turkeyhand> I installed grub over the boot sector of windows I think
23:52 < BCMM> i can't think of any way to make sense of that other than meaning "to fill it up in any reasonable amount of time"
23:52 < edisonbulb> great for logging server output whilst still displaying it real-time
23:52 < bls> ....why does my disk keep saying "no"? need to be more persistent
23:52 < uplime> koala_man: sure
23:52 < turkeyhand> I sure as f can't boot into windows, because it's not in the grub menu, I tried hirens boot cd to boot into windows and it said some file was missing
23:52 < kekePower> "yes | cat" is about 1GiB pr 10 seconds
23:52 < turkeyhand> it's an old version of HBCD though
23:53 < edisonbulb> ./some-kind-of-server | tee /dev/tty > some-log.log
23:53 < jml2> turkeyhand, you can practice dual-booting in vm dum dum
23:53 < jml2> turkeyhand, lolo
23:53 < BCMM> uplime: oh, perhaps you're hoping limits on the size of individual files will kick in first, and also are a few decades out of date?
23:54 < uplime> theres a lot of things I would imagine happening first
23:54 < edisonbulb> random but why does my desk radio get so hot
23:54 < uplime> namely, the fact that no program is going to run forever :)
23:54 < edisonbulb> seems like something that... shouldn't get hot
23:54 < BCMM> edisonbulb: does it have a "power brick", or does the mains go straight to it?
23:54 < edisonbulb> mains goes right in
23:55 < BCMM> edisonbulb: any electronic device can get hot if it includes cheap voltage conversion
23:55 < Chromelon> Hi! Is there any way to set a command to run after a certain command in zsh? Like, whenever I call "task" I want it to append "&& task sync" to the end. Is this possible?
23:55 < uplime> Chromelon: sure
23:55 < uplime> also, #zsh exists and might be more appropriate
23:55 < jml2> Chromelon, ?
23:55 < Chromelon> oh, thanks uplime
23:55 < jml2> Chromelon, ./task1 ; ./task2    << notice the ";"  :p
23:56 < koala_man> Chromelon: task() { command task "$@" && command task sync; }
--- Log closed Tue May 08 00:00:12 2018