--- Log opened Sat May 12 00:00:16 2018
--- Day changed Sat May 12 2018
00:00 < Two_Dogs> its all linux in the end
00:00 < bls> huh?
00:01 < Two_Dogs> besides, if i ask apple they gonna tell me to buy some expensive thing i dont need/want
00:01 < Two_Dogs> or is ios more bsd like
00:01 < Two_Dogs> ?
00:01 < bls> iOS is BSD based
00:01 < Two_Dogs> ok
00:02 < aaro> mawk: in c you do "int mysocket = socket (...); how you call a netlink one?
00:02 < bls> and just barely
00:02 < Two_Dogs> i have looked at the analytics dump for some process on the thing, seems very linux'ish
00:03 < quul> aaro: using AF_NETLINK instead of AF_INET of AF_UNIX
00:03 < bls> they're both based on classic unix designs
00:03 < quul> s/of/or/
00:04 < aaro> oh ok, same socket call just different family, thanks quul
00:06 < mawk> yes aaro
00:06 < mawk> but you don't use recv() but recvmsg()
00:07 < mawk> it allows you to receive a number of well delimited messages instead of a chunk of data
00:08 < mawk> and there is a set of macros to manipulate the data, because there are some alignment constraints
00:09 < mawk> aaro: for instance here's my boilerplate code for receiving events related to interface addresses, policy routing and the routing table: http://paste.suut.in/xBagRyR5.cpp
00:09 < mawk> I use some slightly higher level lib to create and manipulate my netlink socket but it's all the same, the open2 call is like socket(), etc
00:13  * aaro nods
00:41 < CuriousMind> Hi, can someone guide me in installing an iso image via command line? I don't know what I am doing
00:43 < CuriousMind> What I am trying to install is CentOS. I went to this website: http://dallas.tx.mirror.xygenhosting.com/CentOS/6.9/isos/x86_64/ , copied the URL, then did `curl http://dallas.tx.mirror.xygenhosting.com/CentOS/6.9/isos/x86_64/` and I started seeing a bunch of alien characters and stuff
00:43 < koala_man> haha
00:43 < xamithan> Why you curl a URL
00:43 < xamithan> er ISO
00:43 < xamithan> define "installing" too
00:44 < CuriousMind> xamithan: I thought that's what you are suppose to do?
00:44 < koala_man> CuriousMind: you want to download an iso and put it on a usb drive from the command line? installing from it is a separate step
00:44 < xamithan> I wget them
00:44 < CuriousMind> I'm trying to get CentOS on my virtual machine
00:44 < koala_man> ah
00:44 < xamithan> wget will download it,  then just select the iso in your VM software
00:44 < koala_man> CuriousMind: curl -O url  to save to file instead of writing to screen
00:45 < CuriousMind> xamithan: That's the command wget, not curl
00:45 < xamithan> Well curl will work too if you use the syntax koala said
00:45 < koala_man> 'wget url' and 'curl -O url' do the same thing
00:45 < CuriousMind> I see. Ok I am going to try now, thanks guys
00:46 < xamithan> I tried to cat an ISO one day.  I thought I found the matrix
00:47 < CuriousMind> xamithan: lol yeah that was what I was seeing, the matrix
00:48 < koala_man> it's not necessarily insane. head -c 1000 file.iso  is one way to check if it's usb bootable without 'file' and such available
00:50 < CuriousMind> Question, why is it when I did `curl <iso url>` it didn't just download normal?
00:50 < dannylee> hacking pool and chess are my favorite games... 8-)
00:50 < koala_man> CuriousMind: it downloaded normally for curl, whose default output is screen instead of file
00:50 < dannylee> its another great weekend
00:50 < uplime> curl -so disc.iso "$isourl"
00:50 < uplime> maybe -sSo
00:51 < CuriousMind> koala_man: I don't understand
00:52 < xamithan> He said it DID download,  but it downloaded straight to your terminal instead of the filesystem
00:52 < koala_man> CuriousMind: it downloaded the file and showed it to you. it's not curls fault you don't know how to read iso9660
00:52 < CuriousMind> I'm a student by the way so I don't understand any of this lol. I just know that the curl is a tool that helps transfer data and you guys showing me a bunch of commands with options
00:53 < koala_man> CuriousMind: try  'curl wttr.in/dublin' for something that's more human readable than a .iso file
00:53 < CuriousMind> xamithan: Ok I understand that, thank you. It downloaded to my terminal instead of to the filesystem. Interesting, elaborate please?
00:53 < uplime> it didn't download to the terminal
00:53 < uplime> curl downloaded it, and spit its contents to the terminal
00:53 < uplime> which is its default behavior if you don't provide a file
00:53 < xamithan> semantics
00:53 < uplime> its an important difference
00:53 < uplime> for understanding what curl is doing
00:53 < koala_man> CuriousMind: you know how if you do 'echo foo' it shows 'foo' on screen? curl did the same but with a .iso file
00:54 < CuriousMind> koala_man: yes I see
00:55 < koala_man> it's very useful in scripts. for example,   curl yoururl | tee /dev/sdd /dev/sde > /dev/sdf  would have downloaded the file and written it to three separate USB devices at once without needing to store the file on disk first
00:56 < CuriousMind> koala_man: I see
00:58 < CuriousMind> Ok so curl downloaded the contents of the iso to my terminal, but not to a file. So curl indeed do what it was suppose to do which is to transfer data from server to me, but it was my mistake not to add an option to specify where contents should be stored in my system. Am I correct?
00:58 < koala_man> right
00:59 < CuriousMind> Ok that makes sense as to why people do curl <option> url
01:02 < aaro> wget seems more appropiate for that
01:03 < newpy> I'm not sure if this is appropriate for #linux, but I'm wondering how much crossover there is in use cases between vagrant and docker
01:04 < Mistell> newpy: It's not out of the question to provision vagrant boxes pre-configured with docker application development environments
01:05 < Mistell> In fact, that's a very quick way to get new devs up to speed if you're developing inside docker containers
01:06 < Mistell> Though at that point I'd probably not use vagrant, but rather terraform + vsphere or something
01:06 < newpy> Mistell, is the advantage of docker that it's lighter weight than vagrant?
01:07 < Mistell> The advantage to use docker is that your application no longer exists as a "set of scripts" but exists as a nice, ready to ship container.
01:07 < Mistell> I wouldn't say it's a _replacement_ for vagrant, but a different way of application deployment and management
01:08 < newpy> Mistell, I didn't think it was a replacement for vagrant, but I'm trying to make sure I understand when you would use one over the other
01:08 < Mistell> Though if you're saying you use Vagrant today to develop applications, docker won't make development easier per se, but it will make deployment and management easier
01:08 < Mistell> It will also make inconsistancies between dev and prod almost nil
01:09 < Mistell> Right, as you probably can see it's a bit of a grey area since it depends on the context hah
01:09 < Mistell> Some people use vagrant totally differently than others
01:09 < Mistell> but docker is almost always used in a similar fashion
01:09 < Mistell> Since it's so app-focused
01:09 < newpy> like using vagrant for use cases where actual virtualization is important? eg. you want linux i/o to communicate between vagrant boxes?
01:09 < newpy> Mistell, when you ship a container, how is it used/instantiated downstream?
01:09 < newpy> (I've never actually used docker)
01:10 < Mistell> Ah, so note that docker is a different beast than other container tech (LXC/openVZ)
01:10 < newpy> do they need some docker app and then just run `docker filename.container` at the commandline?
01:10 < Mistell> The point is it's totally ephemeral and the container could be destroyed 1000 times a day if you wanted, no big deal
01:10 < Mistell> also the idea of "one process per container"
01:10 < newpy> ic
01:11 < Mistell> example: I write a node app called url_shortener
01:11 < Mistell> you wanna run it? I'll upload it to the registry (docker push url_shortener)
01:11 < Mistell> you pull and run it:
01:11 < Mistell> docker pull url_shortener:1.0
01:11 < Mistell> docker run url_shortenever:1.0 --port 80:8080
01:11 < Mistell> Where 80 is on your host
01:11 < Mistell> and 8080 is inside the container
01:12 < Mistell> the container "feels" like a VM, but it's super lightweight
01:12 < newpy> oh so the container has its own ports as well
01:12 < Mistell> mhm
01:12 < Mistell> the main difference is data
01:12 < newpy> I thought it was just its own dependencies
01:12 < Mistell> docker can have a base image of ubuntu for example
01:12 < newpy> eg. avoiding library conflicts
01:12 < Mistell> Think of it as "a vm but holy crap that's fast and small" from an app perspective
01:13 < Mistell> you also bind persistant directories from the host to a container at run time
01:13 < Mistell> so on the host you might have /data/app/db that bind to /var/lib/mysql in a mysql container
01:13 < newpy> is there a simple explanation for how docker accomplishes this?
01:13 < Mistell> the volumes?
01:13 < newpy> eg. changes $PATH like virtualenv does?
01:13 < Mistell> Not quite, no
01:14 < newpy> no I mean how docker gives you a unique OS image, ports, etc, faster than a VM
01:14 < newpy> b/c that is amazing to me, virtualbox is pretty slow and tends to annoy me
01:15 < Mistell> Oh yeah docker is the way of the future (if it's currently 2011 that is)
01:15 < Mistell> Currently container tech is kind of mainstream
01:15 < newpy> yes, I always hear about it but I think the projects I've worked on never warranted it
01:15 < newpy> or maybe it was just run by dinosaurs who didn't want to learn new tech
01:15 < Mistell> It's super easy to pick up on _if_ you have a good, relevant example to use and someone who can answer questions about it
01:16 < koala_man> newpy: cgroups. it's as lightweight as chroot, and lets you isolate more things than just fs
01:16 < newpy> koala_man, ic
01:16 < newpy> but now I have no idea why anyone would use VM's over docker haha
01:16 < newpy> the only advantage I could see was using port I/O and such with VM's
01:16 < Mistell> Usually appliance VMs
01:16 < Mistell> if a vendor gives you an OVA and says "that's that, good luck"
01:17 < Mistell> it's tough for a vendor to go the way of docker if half their clients won't be able to use it
01:17 < newpy> ah ic
01:17 < newpy> that makes sense
01:17 < koala_man> newpy: docker processes run on the host OS, while the VM runs its own os
01:17 < Mistell> but -every- big box company knows how to use vms
01:17 < newpy> yes that's true, VM's are a staple
01:18 < Mistell> Yup, commodity engineers can easily work with them, but docker is still not quite like java if you know what I mean
01:18 < Mistell> it's more like... node
01:18 < Mistell> huge, but not practical for massive companies with older practices
01:18 < mawk> I setup an identd server, now I have the coolest whois of all
01:18 < koala_man> lol
01:19 < koala_man> hard to believe that identd is still a thing
01:19 < Mistell> Plus newpy tools like Rancher make managing your apps stupid easy
01:19 < Mistell> I troubleshoot prod during red lights these days.
01:19 < Mistell> can manage some 30-40 apps at once myself.
01:19 < mawk> yeah, IRC is the last thing using it
01:19 < Mistell> with VMs that's way too damn hard, way too much patching and fixing and blahhh
01:21 < Mistell> Simple Rancher example managing an app: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/a1TktY3pJ4M/maxresdefault.jpg
01:21 < Mistell> for all of those you can view stdout/err logs in the UI and exec a shell from the ui
01:21 < Mistell> if you upgrade one to new code and it fails, just roll back to the working one before it
01:21 < Mistell> takes like 30 seconds to do a prod deployment
01:22 < Mistell> + w/ any cicd platform you can automate everything anyways
01:22 < Mistell> (sorry I get worked up about this stuff, it's simply amazing)
01:24 < newpy> mistell, I might have mischaracterized your argument in ##programming, but I got a response that VM's offer " slightly more understood/proven separation, and more tooling, like live migrations. And os independance"
01:24 < Sane> Hi, is anybody able to help me connect to the web in colinux. At the moment, only windows has internet and colinux is local only. NB: it seems like the other channels aren't active. colinux/andlinux
01:24 < Sane> specifically andlinux - andLinux is a complete Ubuntu Linux system running seamlessly in Windows
01:25 < Sane> andLinux uses coLinux as its core - coLinux is a port of the Linux kernel to Windows. Although this technology is a bit like running Linux in a virtual machine, coLinux differs itself by being more of a merger of Windows and the Linux kernel and not an emulated PC, making it more efficient.
01:25 < newpy> I had basically said that everyone should be using containers, and the only reason they aren't more popular is that vendors still need to offer VM's for people who don't know how to deal with containers
01:25  * CompanionCube wonders how insanely outdated colinux is by noe
01:25 < newpy> and asked if that was uncharitable
01:25 < Mistell> So yes, the searation factor is absolutely true. It all depends on what you're running for what you want to use.
01:25 < Sane> CompanionCube, I know but it's perfect for what I need
01:26 < Mistell> You don't always need a total level of seperation
01:26 < Mistell> in many many cases, you don't at all
01:26 < Mistell> So why sacrifice speed, portability, scalability, and ease of use for that
01:26 < Sane> I've been tinkering with /etc/network/interfaces with no joy
01:26 < mutante> who wouldnt prefer a dedicated root machine though.. when you are the customer
01:27 < CompanionCube> Sane: you fine with no SMP and 32-bit only?
01:27 < sleepster> I am trying to decide what distro to put on my new laptop.  The choices are between ubuntu and fedora -- ubuntu because it is popular and I figure it is easier to find help and fedora because it is more updated...
01:27 < Mistell> newpy: more tooling is starting to get iffy, but note that I still run docker hosts in VMs
01:27 < Sane> mutante, I would but I'm using this as my 24/7 shell/server etc.. hosting my eggdrop bot on it.
01:27 < Mistell> It's not like you're picking one over the other
01:27 < Mistell> it's that you're running apps in containers, on VM servers.
01:27 < newpy> Mistell, I'm curious what you'd need separation for (other than assuring clients their stuff is truly separate)
01:28 < Mistell> Even then I'd make the argument they probably use a SAN or something
01:28 < Sane> CompanionCube: yup
01:28 < mutante> Sane: yay, eggdrop!  more TCL scripts :)
01:28 < sleepster> I was kind of leaning towards fedora but from benchmarks, apparently it performs slower
01:28 < newpy> Mistell, hmm, why use both a container and a VM?
01:28 < Mistell> "Proven seperation" means VMs have been around longer, so we've learned and hardened the security of isolation: it's hard to escape a VM.
01:28 < jml2> newpy, you newby!
01:29 < Mistell> Containers, while very secure, simply have a shorter history in the spotlight
01:29 < newpy> jml2, that was the inspiration for the nick ;p
01:29 < newpy> newbie + python
01:29 < Mistell> And thus, people get scared if they are running a power plant's critical ops from a container
01:29 < Mistell> newpy: You want a VM, always. No point in baremetal anymore
01:29 < CompanionCube> doesn't eggdrop run on windows?
01:30 < Sane> CompanionCube: yes
01:30 < Mistell> Even if it's just your home server, proxmox/esxi and run a VM for your linux server
01:30 < Sane> I also have a Windrop on it
01:30 < mutante> the "fedora" name has been tarnished. people associate it with "neckbeard" and "gentlesir" nowadays. from a marketing perspective
01:30 < jml2> CompanionCube, no it doesnt, but I can give you dogdrop if you want that on your "Windows"
01:30 < Mistell> so many benefits
01:30  * jml2 XD
01:30 < CompanionCube> jml2: lol the nearest windows box i have is my laptop, so no thanks
01:30 < newpy> Mistell, do you mean like hypervisors?
01:30 < Mistell> Correct
01:30 < CompanionCube> (and I haven't actually booted windows on that in forever)
01:31 < newpy> b/c running ubuntu on virtualbox on windows8 is slow as hell :P
01:31 < newpy> ah k
01:31 < Mistell> Note that if you're running app infra on windows that's your first problem
01:31 < newpy> I'm not, but my laptop at home is windows so I play on it
01:31 < Mistell> Gotcha
01:31 < blawiz> hrmm... going through some oldish usbsticks, and after 'sudo dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sdd bs=4096' they seem to be only 3.8GB (when i try to make a new partition), even though they should be bigger, wtf? :S
01:32 < mutante> blawiz: http://www.instructables.com/id/Dont-fall-for-the-Flash-Drive-Scam!/  ?;p
01:32 < jml2> 4096 bytes is going to take forever with dd
01:33 < blawiz> jml2: it take about a minute
01:33 < blawiz> 16? or 4 GB
01:33 < blawiz> mutante: dont think its that ;P
01:34 < jml2> there's nice videos on youtube showing fake chinese usb drives. they're called loop-devices ... the drives appear to show 1 Terabyte, but is actually like 64 megs... A customer requests to prove the drive works, etc, they see the 1 TB and a 25 meg video file copied to it and assume it is legit... until they start magically seeing things disappearing
01:34 < jml2> by then too late, they purchased it and already crossed the border XD
01:36 < Sane> Maybe someone can help me connect to the net by looking at this for me: https://48h.pics/tnuakmS30.jpg
01:37 < Mistell> Sane: you sure your gateway is 10.0.2.2?
01:37 < Mistell> 100%
01:37 < Mistell> also eth1 ain't going anywhere like that lol
01:37 < Sane> My router default gateway is 192.168.1.1 and this Windows-host is on 192.168.1.7 -- Mistell
01:37 < mutante> Sane: with a netmask of 255.255.255.0 the gateway and client are not in the same network
01:38 < mutante> Sane: no, ignore me..i am wrong :)
01:38 < Mistell> :P
01:39 < jml2> omg he's using putty!
01:39 < Mistell> cmdr+gitbash!
01:40 < Sane> NB: I can SSH, telnet and SFTP andlinux from my windows machine by connecting to 192.168.11.150. and I can ping that from my Windows machine but I can't ping or wget or anything net related on andlinux
01:40 < blackgatonegro> Yeah finally formarted the darn hard disk on my pc,  running linux mint right now. After like 30 minutes of not puking while using ubuntu horrible gui. Unity or not unity it looks like a tablet os, not a desktop os.
01:40 < zumba_addict> Hey folks. Maybe you have alternative solution on how to do a POST call on an https REST endpoint from command line. The curl that is installed doesn't have https support. The linux is old and kernel is 2.6.18. It doesn't have gcc, make
01:40 < Sane> jml2: I use Putty Tray normally but that terminal is aprt of andlinux
01:41 < Mistell> oh shoot zumba_addict gimme that ip cause you're in for a quick hack
01:41 < Mistell> is that a dirtycow I smell?
01:41 < zumba_addict> I'm currently thinking of updating our endpoint to change it from https to http
01:42 < zumba_addict> dirtycow?
01:42 < Mistell> ah dcow is .22+
01:42 < Mistell> also nevermind
01:42 < Mistell> also nooo keep https D:
01:42 < Mistell> can you get wget?
01:42 < jml2> https->http and not http->https?  what company ever does that? !!!!
01:42 < Mistell> wait post, nvm
01:42 < zumba_addict> yes, wget works on https
01:42 < Sane> Doesn't seem like anyone can help :(
01:42 < zumba_addict> i know jml2 :)
01:43 < zumba_addict> i am not sure if wget can do a POST call
01:43 < blackgatonegro> wget is awesome if you learn the command list
01:43 < Mistell> Sane: I uh, I'm not too sure. Perhaps because your gateway isn't set traffic can't get out?
01:43 < zumba_addict> let me read the manpage
01:43 < Mistell> Not sure that makes sense, you'd have to have it set to get an ip right?
01:43 < jml2> curl does have https support
01:43 < jml2> zumba_addict, ^
01:43 < jml2> you have to install ca-certificates
01:43 < Mistell> Oh wait no dhcp can be any box on the network
01:43 < SideFX> I'm trying to replace a string with another in all instances in all files recursively in a dirextory
01:43 < zumba_addict> curl, you didn't read my whole post. Our curl on this old linux wasn't compiled with https
01:43 < Mistell> Sane: set your gateway back to 192.168.11.1, turn eth0 off and test if that works
01:43 < zumba_addict> i mean jml2
01:43 < Mistell> if that doesn't work, then it's deeper
01:43 < Mistell> if it does, something about eth0 is in the way
01:44 < Sane> Mistell: eth0 or eth 1?
01:44 < Mistell> eth1
01:44 < jml2> cant tell if you were giving a misstatement
01:44 < Mistell> what's the 10.x range for?
01:44 < zumba_addict> is that for me jml2?
01:44 < Mistell> is this a router itself or something
01:44 < Mistell> or dual homed actually
01:44 < Mistell> to a router w/ 10.0.2.2
01:45 < jml2> zumba_addict, sounds like a dumb company, if you can't update that machine
01:45 < jml2> lol
01:45 < Mistell> jml2: sounds like mine :/
01:45 < jml2> Mistell, did you read above, he says he cant use curl because his edition is too old to have https support
01:45 < Mistell> jml2: Well, more like "you absolutely have to update it but you have to talk to someone who will take 2 weeks to do it, but we need it done tomorrow"
01:45 < jml2> Mistell, lol
01:45 < Mistell> jml2: I did, I was talking to Sane
01:45 < blackgatonegro> eh, any reason he can't update?
01:46 < zumba_addict> :D quite agree but the machine before making changes requires FCC to approve it
01:46 < blackgatonegro> heck, even run puppy linux buntu flavor or something?
01:46 < Mistell> lol
01:46 < zumba_addict> and it takes 3-4 months before the changes can be implemented or deployed
01:46 < Mistell> here's what you do then...
01:46 < Mistell> uh...
01:47 < Mistell> nginx reverse proxy http>https and use localhost?
01:47 < zumba_addict> i am thinking of using openssl -s_client if it can do POST
01:47 < Mistell> doubt that's possible
01:47 < prussian> anything is possible, but why
01:47 < zumba_addict> that will work definitely but that's another hop
01:47 < Mistell> No I mean the nginx idea*
01:47 < prussian> you gonna make a multipart form body in some heredoc? what are you posting?
01:47 < djph> zumba_addict: what is this device that it "needs FCC approval" for an update?
01:47 < zumba_addict> yes, the nginx idea will work
01:47 < blackgatonegro> if you want something safe and can't upgrade the hardware or software, why not use a live cd or something like that?
01:47 < zumba_addict> djph: it's a linux machine
01:48 < Mistell> I meant how are you going to install nginx
01:48 < Mistell> if you can't even update curl
01:48 < prussian> f
01:48 < prussian> true
01:48 < zumba_addict> but I can't tell more about it
01:48 < zumba_addict> that's why i mentioned earlier, no gcc no make
01:48 < zumba_addict> so nginx is out
01:48 < prussian> i'm sorry
01:48 < zumba_addict> it's a crazy machine and I hate their policy
01:49 < zumba_addict> let me read wget manpage
01:49 < lupine> zumba_addict: if you have the `openssl` command-line client, consider piping through `openssl s_client`
01:49 < Mistell> dude what is open on 443 over there o.o
01:49 < lupine> or any https proxy
01:49 < zumba_addict> yes, that's what i mentioned earlier lupine
01:49 < lupine> or, you know, getting another job
01:50 < lupine> > reasons for moving
01:50 < zumba_addict> lupine: i need to know first if i can do POST call with openssl
01:50 < blackgatonegro> Boot using a portable linux or something, no changes on the machine left. Unless you do want to change the machine, then just scare them with I duno, Ars technica headlines about hacking?
01:50 < lupine> > cto is literally insane and froths at the mouth
01:50 < lupine> zumba_addict: yes you can
01:50 < jml2> Sane, you have two nics on that machine -- though the syntax appears correct, your router device is probably not configured properly
01:50 < prussian> you can literally do whatever you want
01:50 < zumba_addict> oh cool
01:50 < zumba_addict> i've been googling but can't find an example
01:50 < Mistell> jml2: that's my best guess too
01:50 < zumba_addict> i also need a pem file because I had an error related to CA
01:50 < lupine> openssl s_client is protocol-agnostic, aside from some starttls stuff you can ignore for the purposes of https
01:51 < zumba_addict> gotcha
01:51 < prussian> well it helps to know how http works I guess
01:51 < djph> zumba_addict: "a linux machine" is super vague, and the FCC doesn't fucking care.  The only thing they care about is intentional radiators (i.e. radio transmitters)
01:51 < blackgatonegro> Yeah but unsafe ssl is kinda pointless. Is like buying the best door ever and leaving an open window.
01:51 < Mistell> djph: Ever thought he works _for_ the FCC and this is a prod server that needs a fix tonight and he's gotta make magic happen
01:51 < Sane> jml2: and Mistell. Any advice?
01:52 < Mistell> I've certainly been there.
01:52 < zumba_addict> djph: i am not sure why their policy is like that. I don't have control
01:52 < prussian> ok
01:52 < prussian> well
01:52 < Mistell> Especially if you're on a low priv account and basically can only execute binaries but can't change anything drastic
01:52 < prussian> gl with your implementation of HTTP/1.1 using openssl s_client
01:52 < djph> do you *work* for the FCC?  Or is this some kind of radio?
01:53 < prussian> wtf
01:53 < zumba_addict> nope, i don't work for fcc
01:53 < blackgatonegro> zumba_addict, make a scary video, I mean just last years hackings are enough to make anyone piss their pants.
01:53 < prussian> he works for the FCC?
01:53 < prussian> jesus
01:53 < Mistell> sure it getting heated in here
01:53 < Mistell> Sane: Nothing sorry :(
01:53 < djph> prussian: he's the one who said he needs FCC approval to make changes
01:53 < prussian> i see
01:53 < zumba_addict> yes, that's true
01:54 < prussian> i see. well again. best of luck
01:54 < zumba_addict> we deployed our machine in their premise
01:54 < prussian> do you have python2 ? lsb pretty much requires it.
01:54 < prussian> every distro i know has python 2
01:54 < zumba_addict> it's fedora v5 if i remember correctly which is jurassic :D
01:54 < prussian> uh. just upgrade the box wholesale
01:54 < djph> ^
01:54 < zumba_addict> :D
01:54 < prussian> likeliterally.
01:55 < djph> "shit's old, time to upgrade"
01:55 < prussian> literally dl some mainline kernel and busybox, that would be better than that
01:55 < Mistell> prussian: have you ever worked in a regulated environment? It's never that simple
01:55 < zumba_addict> i quite agree but will require lots of politics which is totally wrong
01:55 < blackgatonegro> shit is old, time to reviv it using linux.
01:55 < prussian> Mistell: no not really
01:55 < Mistell> prussian: it's a pain in the ass and sucks, lol. never work anywhere like that
01:55 < zumba_addict> i've said it many times when I joined the company and we just can't
01:55 < prussian> honestly I don't care. he's still here, we can't help them and really I'm just...
01:56 < prussian> confused
01:56 < blackgatonegro> Notrhing is simple but fear works.
01:56 < zumba_addict> i'm going to try openssl since openssl is installed
01:56 < Lisanna> Wondering if anyone has any good solutions to this: a program writes an updating progress bar to stdout, but the program's stdout gets piped through a log file (like a systemd journal). Since the program won't write a newline after the progress bar, the progress bar never shows up in the log file. Are there any good ways of dealing with this?
01:56 < Mistell> Sounds like a homework question
01:56 < blackgatonegro> zumba_addict, without the patches and with an open window? yeah that will go well.
01:57 < zumba_addict> cool
01:57 < zumba_addict> most likely this linux hasn't been patched
01:57 < blackgatonegro> Lisanna, make the program write the data in the log too?
01:57 < Mistell> Lisanna: I assume you can't edit the program
01:57 < Mistell> you just control the logging
01:57 < Lisanna> Mistell right
01:58 < Lisanna> there's all sorts of programs that behave like this
01:58 < blackgatonegro> then using sssl is like black hat bait.
01:58 < Mistell> Hmm... I've got nothing there. If you tee is do you get anything in the log when you get screen printing?
01:58 < Mistell> tee it*
01:58 < Mistell> ./fun_program | tee -a test.log
01:59 < Mistell> should get your progress bar, but it might also be in the log.
01:59 < zumba_addict> I think I know what to do now with openssl s_client
02:00 < blackgatonegro> Or in a different log
02:00 < Mistell> zumba_addict: :D
02:00 < zumba_addict> trying it now
02:00 < blackgatonegro> zumba_addict, cry in despair when you get hacked?
02:00 < zumba_addict> :D
02:00 < Lisanna> Mistell that causes it to show up in neither place... I don't think it's even getting sent to tee since there's no newline following it. not sure how that works.
02:00 < Mistell> no access to the app's source right?
02:01 < Mistell> I've reached the limits of my little know-how on this one.
02:01 < Mistell> (that was fast)
02:02 < Lisanna> Mistell I mean, it's not just one app (although I have one that I'm testing it with), it's a general problem I've run into plenty of times and it's pretty annoying.
02:02 < blackgatonegro> actually there is progrably a log somewhere, Have you tried to see in the app folder?
02:02 < Lisanna> I consider hacking the source of all the apps I use to make their progress bars show up in logfiles to be a very desperate solution
02:02 < Mistell> Nah nah, just curious how they are printing the bar
02:02 < Mistell> even with like Yarn I still see that progress bar show up in the logs
02:03 < Lisanna> Mistell terminal control characters
02:03 < Lisanna> presumably
02:03 < blackgatonegro> a lot of apps in linux make logs.
02:03 < Mistell> blackgatonegro: that's correct
02:03 < Lisanna> sometimes I get one that uses ncurses and I have to pipe the whole thing through screen to get anything to show up at all x_x
02:04 < Lisanna> screen or script, can't remember which one I used
02:04 < Mistell> o.o
02:04 < Mistell> I've never dealth with this issue before
02:04 < Mistell> But I've also never needed the bar in the logs since _usually_ it's followed by a message
02:04 < Mistell> that indicates it was completed
02:05 < blackgatonegro> eh alternately, run a seperate process that records a log. Or dig the internet for that darn linux command to force the app to make a log.
02:05 < Lisanna> yeah, for example scp uses ncurses to print file transfer progress info, so to get that to show up live in logs you have to wrap it with script. but even then the very last line will always be hidden because there's no trailing \n
02:05 < Mistell> Ah I see
02:07 < blackgatonegro> Lisanna, eh, dig those old linux manuals out, use the terminal!
02:07 < Mistell> Uh...
02:08 < Mistell> I think Lisanna knows what's up
02:08 < Lisanna> :p
02:09 < blackgatonegro> linc commands are insane, there is a way to do everything with them, if you could bloody remender them.
02:09 < blackgatonegro> *linux
02:09 < Mistell> Uh...
02:09 < Mistell> here's a good one for ya blackgatonegro: :(){ :|: & };:
02:10 < Lisanna> nooooo
02:10 < Lisanna> be nice ):
02:10 < Mistell> " Fun, too, and doesn't need root. "
02:10 < Mistell> " need root "
02:10 < Mistell> _root_
02:10 < blackgatonegro> Honesty I had to google "How to update linux from terminal" like 40 times in my life so far? All cause I don't wanna look over my old pile of magazines and manuals. And because my memory sucks.
02:10 < Mistell> can't tell if serious
02:11 < blackgatonegro> logs don't need root, apps tend to log on their own.
02:11 < Mistell> man you're killin me here
02:11 < Mistell> "store that ram inside the app, then call the kernel to pull the app outside of the ram and into the bus cache for maximum peak performance"
02:12 < mutante> blackgatonegro: alias "forgot" to the actual update commands
02:13 < mutante> and put in .bashrc once
02:13 < blackgatonegro> mutante, I blame my old study habits
02:14 < mutante> then add postit note on monitor "the alias is "forgot"!"
02:14 < blackgatonegro> read book for hours, take exam, five minutes later,m forghet everything I read.
02:14 < Mistell> blackgatonegro: what brings you to #linux this fine day
02:14 < mutante> yea, just donate the books to the library
02:15 < Lisanna> well, it's not the shell's fault I don't think, since I can print stuff with no newline and have it show up in tee just fine.
02:15 < blackgatonegro> Mistell, mostly wasting time while mint updates.
02:16 < jml2> blackgatonegro, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43gm3CJePn0  XDXDXD
02:16 < jml2> blackgatonegro, install linux you. :p
02:18 < blackgatonegro> jml2, nooo I am totally running dos 2.0 instead....
02:20 < jml2> "<blackgatonegro> zumba_addict, make a scary video, I mean just last years hackings are enough to make anyone piss their pants."
02:20 < jml2> XDXD
02:20 < jml2> blackgatonegro, freedos is still around....
02:21 < jml2> blackgatonegro, ahem :p
02:21 < jml2> blackgatonegro, btw i'm not racist ...
02:21 < jml2> blackgatonegro, but msdos and other dos things are not ##linux :pp
02:21 < blackgatonegro> jml2, isn't it true? Let's see, wi-fi, like a third of the us social numbers and data, and even more....
02:22 < blackgatonegro> jml2, did you forget to install the third party sense of humor controlers?
02:23 < Two_Dogs> humor? whats that?
02:23 < jml2> Two_Dogs, tupac
02:23 < jml2> lol
02:23 < djph> blackgatonegro: they're in the nonfree repos.
02:23 < Two_Dogs> ^^
02:25 < b2coutts> is there a way to put hyperlinks in an email sent via the `mail` command-line utility? do I have to somehow make the body of the email HTML? not really sure how hyperlinks generally work in email
02:26 < Mistell> you can use html, yup.
02:27 < Mistell> b2coutts: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12601639/how-to-set-hyperlinks-in-the-mail-sent-from-unix-box
02:30 < blackgatonegro> any website that actually has all those wget commands you guys know about?
02:31 < Mistell> what kind of wget commands
02:31 < Mistell> like the underground kind
02:31 < blackgatonegro> terminal, all of them.
02:32 < Sitri> blackgatonegro: https://www.gnu.org/software/wget/manual/wget.html
02:35 < iflema> -A *.JPG
02:36 < iflema> :D
02:36 < jml2> }:D
02:36 < jml2> curl >> wget
02:37 < iflema> yeah thats curl... what do you do again... >
02:39 < dell00> curl < wget
02:39 < dell00> Nvm. Just trollin' :P
02:39 < jim> if yer trollin, I'm scrollin
02:40 < jim> or bowlin for the foal in the barn
02:41 < theorem> has anyone gotten Fortnite to work on Linux ?
02:41 < theorem> I figured I'd give it a try
02:41 < theorem> it looks like there's a very old wine version
02:42 < Roey> vintage wine, even?
02:42 < jim> do you mean do a paid gig using linux? yeah, I did... or, do you mean submit kernel code which got accepted?
02:42 < mutante> wine gets better with age
02:42 < jim> age gets better with wine
02:43 < mutante> :)
02:43 < Roey> whining gets better with age :)
02:43 < Roey> :) :)
02:43  * Roey brbthroom..
02:43 < Aph3x-WL> ask bill cosby what he thinks wine makes better
02:47 < theorem> http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/11/13/1415883375128_wps_99_Bill_Cosby_invited_the_in.jpg
02:47 < Pentode> o_O
02:49 < theorem> I just read the word "belfie"  .. and I am now dumber for reading it and also understanding what it means.
03:12 < Loshki> theorem: http://theweek.com/articles/447231/belfie-drelfie-helfie-more-variations-selfie
03:13 < Loshki> wine gets better with age: and yet everyone upgrades to top-of-tree
03:14 < theorem> blech
03:29 < mawk> I set up letsencrypt with DNS challenge
03:29 < mawk> using RFC2136 updates to my knot authoritative server
03:29 < madan> testing
03:29 < mawk> with the proper key and all
03:30 < mawk> it's very nice
03:31 < macwinner> In one of my server's nodejs process, there is this environment variable set: LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib64/tls/libkeyutils.so.1.  It's not set in any other one of my clustered servers.  I'm trying to see where it's coming from.  I've checked out .bashrc, .bash_profile, files in /etc/skel
03:31 < macwinner> any tips on where else this may be?
03:31 < aftertaste> how can i check the size of my serial buffer?
03:34 < pnbeast> aftertaste, I know it seems old fashioned, but a good metal ruler is still the best way.  If you need, you can drop a string down in it until it hits the bottom, then measure the string some other way.  In the '80s, Hayes sold nice serial buffer dipsticks, too, but they were plastic and tended to warp after a few years.
03:34 < aftertaste> O_O
03:35 < pnbeast> aftertaste, sorry, what I really meant was:  what's your real question?
03:36 < aftertaste> im not quite sure where i was going with that now that i think of it, im talking to a 3g modem over serial and im worndering if i need to worry about its buffer getting too full
03:37 < madan> how to redirect a output stream to vim editor: for eaxmple on the vim editor i can excute this command ":!sudo cat /root/.bash_profile > ?????
03:37 < madan> what is come on ????
03:39 < xamithan> .bash_profile | vim -  ?
03:39 < xamithan> Should read from stdin
03:40 < madan> ok
03:42 < madan> while i am working on vim i need a copy of some contents on diffrent file , without closing vim file how i can copy the diffrent file content on the current open file ?
03:45 < xamithan> I think you can just :e file,  then yank the lines you want,  :b1 (goes back to buffer 1)
03:45 < madan> i got it;
03:46 < madan> :r!sudo cat /root/.bash_profile
03:46 < swift110> hey
03:46 < xamithan> that works too if you want the whole thing
03:46 < madan> this command read the file and paste in the vim editor
03:58 < pnbeast> madan, that's a really strange thing to do.  You might get better advice if you explain your real problem.
04:02 < madan> @pubeast, while i am creating a new file i need an addtional information from the other files , so insteat of opening the file file and copy and paste the content , i can access via the VIM commnand
04:03 < madan> for example :r!sudo cat /root/.bash_profile
04:04 < madan> this will pull the comtents of the .bash_profile on the vim editor
04:05 < pnbeast> madan, this is not twitter (and, "test" is just absurd - you can test with your real question or comment).  You may wish to use split to open other files.  I prefer it.
04:06 < madan> ok
04:07 < xamithan> I prefer just enabling the system clipboard for VIM and using that
04:08 < pnbeast> xamithan, what is the "system clipboard"?
04:09 < xamithan> Whatever clipboard the DE uses to copy and paste
04:09 < pnbeast> Why would you do that when you can do it directly in vim, regardless of the DE or without any DE?  What makes it better?
04:10 < xamithan> Not better per say,  just saves some typing out file names or opening other things
04:11 < jab416171> hm I've got a script that's apparently been broken since I did a system update about a month ago... it's supposed to use vcs to create screenshots of videos, but instead it spits out these two lines: stty: 'standard input': Inappropriate ioctl for device
04:11 < jab416171> tput: No value for $TERM and no -T specified
04:11 < pnbeast> "per se" is Latin, and has nothing to do with the modern English word "say".  Tab completion does most of my typing, including when using vim's split.
04:11 < jab416171> and running the script manually works great.
04:12 < mandeep> is a theme like this limited to zsh, or is it handled by the terminal emulator: http://www.yet.org/images/posts/agnoster.png
04:13 < xamithan> Pretty sure language has evolved since latin came a round
04:13 < pnbeast> mandeep, as far as I know, nothing I'd call a shell has a "theme".  Look at your terminal and WM and DE stuff.
04:14 < jab416171> do I just need to set $TERM and it'll be happy? or what
04:14 < pnbeast> xamithan, that's exactly what I said.  And if you spend 18 seconds with a search engine, you can learn all about the dead language Latin's "per se".
04:15 < mandeep> pnbeast: that's what i thought as well but havent found anything concrete. ill keep searching
04:15 < FXpro> hey ummm, is there an easy way to change the boot order in debian?
04:15 < mandeep> maybe it's just my terminal
04:16 < xamithan> Ok well I have no idea why you are talking about latin.  I never said per se
04:16 < mandeep> FXpro: you mean set the default boot in grub to a different option, or change the actual order listed?
04:17 < pnbeast> xamithan, that, literally, is what I said.  You're really quick.
04:17 < xamithan> Ok this conversation is going in circles.  Let's regroup tomorrow
04:18 < pnbeast> xamithan, sounds good.  Bring a dictionary!
04:18 < FXpro> mandeep, I want to experiment with debian but when I turn the computer on and walk away, I want it to default to windows for my girlfriend.
04:18 < pnbeast> FXpro, it's not Debian, per *se*, you change, it's the boot loader, probably grub.
04:20 < FXpro> yeah.  how do I do that?
04:20 < FXpro> I come across something called "Grub Customizer"
04:20 < iflema> FXpro: /etc/default/grub and set default. If you want to change the order you can do a 09_custom like a 40 but earlier...
04:21 < pnbeast> FXpro, well, you could just maybe look up the docs for the boot loader you're using and read the section(s) on dual-booting, or you could check third party websites with documentation/advice, or maybe some other routes would work better for you.
04:21 < iflema> savvy
04:22 < FXpro> why is there not a simple way to do that?  it is rather annoying to be honest.
04:22 < FXpro> its like a nag or something it seems like.
04:23  * iflema but thats a bit ...gary
04:24 < pnbeast> FXpro, the software you got doesn't meet your standards for simplicity?  You better return it for a refund.
04:24 < mandeep> FXpro: yeah it is annoying. im not familiar with other distros, but i assume more user friendly ones like ubuntu or mint have easier ways to access frub
04:24 < AnAceFace> is anyone using neomutt?
04:25 < FXpro> nahhh, it should be simple to change that around without 20 lines of syntax in the terminal to get it done.
04:25 < FXpro> it should be one or maybe two steps.  and maybe it is but everything I looked up so far is stupid.
04:26 < mandeep> FXpro: build a gui and submit it to apt ;)
04:26 < FXpro> for example, sudo add-apt-repository ppa:danielrichter2007/grub-customizer
04:26 < FXpro> sudo apt-get update
04:26 < FXpro> sudo apt-get install grub-customizer
04:26 < FXpro> there is 3 steps which do not work right there.
04:26  * iflema retard
04:26 < pnbeast> FXpro, are you an SPSS user?
04:27 < irwinz> can anybody help me figure out the setting name of the "highlighted" text (i.e. at the bottom when using tmux), scrnshot of what i mean: https://i.imgur.com/ILx54IY.png -- obviously white text on green bg is illegible
04:27 < FXpro> I am a bit on the newbie side so, from a practical point of view I am speaking.
04:27 < mandeep> FXpro: those dont look like debian instructions. not sure what the outcome would be
04:27 < pnbeast> AnAceFace, apparently you are.  Ask your real question and you might get real answers.
04:27 < FXpro> linux had to copy mac and windows on the point and click stuff instead of the lean days of dos and command line, but there still is work that needs to be done.
04:28 < FXpro> this is why distros like mint are so popular now.  they have attempted to simplify things.
04:28 < pnbeast> You thought Linux was somehow related to or copied from DOS?  Um, I have some interesting news for you, FXpro.
04:29 < Two_Dogs> mandeep: can debian use ppa repo?
04:29 < FXpro> no.  I think it is patheticly stupid it is not a very simple command line entry to change a boot order and if you remove linux from your dual boot, you get a grub error that does not allow you to boot your other operating system.
04:29 < FXpro> makes no sense it is like that.
04:30 < iflema> define "remove"
04:30 < suffer> irwinz: set -g status-style bg=color fg=color
04:30 < pnbeast> FXpro, ah, I see.  Well, I already advised you to ask for a refund.  But maybe crying is a better option for you.  Good luck.
04:30 < FXpro> what does make a lot of sense is, the user wants to try another distro and removes the linux partition and upon removal of it, it puts everything back to where it was and allows you to boot to your other operating system.
04:30 < Two_Dogs> i try not to stare at grub for more than 3 sec
04:31 < irwinz> suffer: thanks lemme give it a shot
04:31 < iflema> FXpro: you can have that but i depends on your configuration of hardware
04:31 < FXpro> OR better, it keeps the boot loader and allows any other os to boot.
04:31 < rascul> yeah you can do that, just remove linux from the bootloader
04:32 < rascul> if you had issues with that, you either did it wrong or you did something else and didn't realize it
04:32 < irwinz> suffer: hex or rgb?
04:32 < iflema> if you are sharing one disk its fraction more manual
04:32 < FXpro> grub is the default boot loader for debian distros?
04:32 < rascul> yes
04:32 < FXpro> most linux flavors it is this grub thing.
04:33 < Two_Dogs> os-prober should see linux is gone and tweak grub menu to new as found, no?
04:33 < FXpro> is there a better boot manager available by chance?
04:33 < rascul> better in which way?
04:33 < FXpro> more user friendly
04:33 < rascul> heh no
04:33 < FXpro> does not give errors because of removal of the linux partition.
04:33 < iflema> !next
04:33 < rascul> grub didn't give errors because you removed the linux partition
04:33 < rascul> you screwed something else up
04:33 < Two_Dogs> FXpro: grub is not suppose to be a table ornament
04:33 < rascul> i mean, if you removed it from grub
04:34 < FXpro> nahh its a default install of a debian distribution or any other distro I have attempted.
04:34 < rascul> if you actually removed the partition without changing grub, then yes you'll likely get errors
04:34 < FXpro> speaking of which, backbox is an interesting one based on this ubuntu flavor.
04:34 < FXpro> speaking of which, wtf does ubuntu mean?  that is a stupid name.
04:34 < rascul> some african word for "i don't know how to linux"
04:35 < iflema> tears
04:35 < Two_Dogs> its stupid, i dont like it
04:35 < FXpro> Ubuntu is a Nguni Bantu term meaning "humanity". It is often translated as "I am
04:35 < FXpro> because we are," and also "humanity towards others"
04:35 < Two_Dogs> where is the nanny?
04:35 < rascul> yeah, that's exactly what i said
04:37 < Two_Dogs> FXpro: what do you think about the ubuntu version names?
04:37 < mandeep> pnbeast: i figured it out. the theming is indeed done at the shell level and there are various plugins that exist for bash to achieve it
04:37 < FXpro> I think there is too much going on with linux.  there is a lot of confussion in distributions.
04:38 < pnbeast> mandeep, I apologize.  What is this "theming"?  Colors?
04:38 < FXpro> distrowatch however at least makes it easier to climb through the wall of confussion.
04:38 < mandeep> pnbeast: theming of $PS1, $PS2, etc
04:38 < FXpro> the last thing anyone needs these days is more confussion and information overload which is the case in recent years - INFORMATION OVERLOAD
04:39 < pnbeast> Oh, customized prompts?
04:39 < FXpro> many in the linux community are off in many oddball obscure directions.
04:39 < Two_Dogs> indeed
04:39 < rascul> mandeep you don't need plugins for customized prompts, just set $PS1 with whatever colors you like
04:40 < rascul> there are even online PS1 generator things so you don't have to learn voodoo
04:40 < FXpro> complicated is generally not good and simple is generally much better, but not always the case  :)
04:40 < rascul> here's a couple of them generator things  http://bashrcgenerator.com/  http://ezprompt.net/
04:41 < mandeep> rascul: well i wanted more than colors. like the typical background arrow
04:41 < rascul> background arrow?
04:41 < mandeep> rascul: http://www.yet.org/images/posts/agnoster.png
04:41 < rascul> oh
04:41 < rascul> i don't think that's typical, though
04:42 < mandeep> im not sure what the name of that is so i called it background arrow :|
04:42 < rascul> commands are colored too
04:42 < edisonbulb> how do i make modules_install to /mnt instead of the default
04:42 < popnfloss> su
04:42 < popnfloss> hardboner69
04:42 < rascul> i would probably commit suicide if i had to use a terminal like that
04:42 < popnfloss> whoops
04:42 < edisonbulb> i like su
04:42 < pnbeast> mandeep, does that work in an xterm or just in whatever terminal you have in the image?  I have a feeling that's not an xterm.
04:42 < mandeep> rascul: haha why
04:42 < edisonbulb> sudo feels weird and unnatural
04:43 < mandeep> pnbeast: im using tilix
04:43 < popnfloss> sudo is stupid
04:43 < popnfloss> having one password that gives you access to both your user account and the root account is dumb
04:43 < rascul> mandeep because i have a very low tolerance for disgusting things i'm forced to use
04:43 < mandeep> rascul: i see
04:43 < rascul> popnfloss so don't set it up like that
04:44 < edisonbulb> really giving people who don't know the root password access to root with their own password seems kind of dumb
04:44 < popnfloss> if its not set up like that then theres no point in using sudo
04:44 < edisonbulb> bc then someone with access to their account could use root
04:44 < rascul> popnfloss sure there is
04:44 < fendur> edisonbulb: the access is very controllable
04:44 < rascul> if for no other reason than convenience because you potentially don't need to type the password each time
04:45 < rascul> also you could use it for access other, non root accounts
04:45 < phinxy> Why is /proc/fb a 0?  There is a /dev/fb0.  mpv can play videos to the framebuffer.
04:45 < edisonbulb> anyway umm i am trying to do a make modules_install to an external hdd mounted at /mnt
04:45 < popnfloss> rascul: google sudo vulnerabilities
04:45 < edisonbulb> make install has already been done by exporting INSTALL_PATH
04:45 < edisonbulb> but modules install seems to not work the same way
04:45 < rascul> popnfloss why don't you tell me what your point is instead of sending me on a pointless task to which i have no clue what i'm supposed to be looking for
04:46 < popnfloss> or better yet https://www.cvedetails.com/google-search-results.php?q=sudo&sa=Search
04:46 < rascul> your point?
04:47 < rascul> i'm not going to go through and analyze each cve related to sudo for you
04:47 < pnbeast> rascul, would you do it for me?
04:47 < popnfloss> just the fact that there have been vulnerabilities in sudo at all means its dumb to use it
04:47 < rascul> pnbeast depends on the weather
04:47 < popnfloss> because you're adding a potential vulnerability to your system just for the sake of convenience
04:47 < pnbeast> popnfloss, so, then, IRC clients would be right out, no?
04:47 < edisonbulb> popnfloss: there have been vulnerabilities in OpenBSD
04:47 < edisonbulb> your point?
04:47 < rascul> popnfloss so how do you use a computer at all if you don't want to use software that had at one point had a vulnerability?
04:48 < popnfloss> and its not even really convenient unless you set it to NOPASSWD, which is even dumber
04:48 < jml2> popnfloss, sudo is dumb to use, it's being deprecated slowly by pkexec and other things
04:48 < rascul> that would be true if you ignore the convenience that i mentioned earlier
04:48 < popnfloss> rascul: minimize the points of failure as much as possible
04:48 < rascul> yes, that's a good reason to use sudo
04:49 < popnfloss> ie, if you have a program that could potentially be a security risk and its not actually needed, then dont use it
04:49 < rascul> indeed
04:49 < rascul> so don't use computers then
04:49 < rascul> just turning it on is a security risk, so many vulnerabilities
04:49 < edisonbulb> i communicate using trained falcons
04:49 < edisonbulb> works great
04:49 < edisonbulb> ./s
04:49 < popnfloss> dont have a middle man between you and suing to root that could potentially break and allow anyone to get root
04:50 < pnbeast> popnfloss, it seems a lot like you don't understand what sudo was designed for.  Did you think Canonical invented it to admin your shiny Ubuntu machine?
04:50 < rascul> popnfloss so why do you use su then?
04:50 < edisonbulb> su is a traditional unix tool and it just feels right to use it on my personal desktop computer
04:50 < edisonbulb> but i'm pretty sure that's not a valid reason
04:50 < rascul> sudo wasn't a canonical thing
04:50 < popnfloss> if someone gets your user password and your user is in the sudoers file, then they have root access
04:50 < edisonbulb> so i have no right to say anything bad about sudo
04:51 < jml2> triceratux, finally i'm trying out https://sourceforge.net/projects/extix/files/latest/download  :p -- it's friday XD
04:51 < popnfloss> if you're not using sudo, then they need to know another password to get root
04:51 < rascul> popnfloss sure, if sudo is setup to give them root access with that user's password
04:51 < m1n> hipsters these days
04:51 < jml2> popnfloss, yeah so ?
04:51 < rascul> seems like all your criticism of sudo is based solely on ubuntu's default insecure configuration
04:51 < pnbeast> Nonsense!  I pick all my favorite programs based on how right they feel!  And never was a program better than Clippy.
04:51 < jml2> popnfloss, how would they find out your password in the first place XD
04:51 < jml2> lol
04:52 < popnfloss> keyloggers, shoulder surfing, etc.
04:52 < rascul> you can setup other methods of auth for sudo also, such as with a yubikey
04:52 < jml2> popnfloss, what about otp-challenge with yubikeys and keepassxc :p
04:52 < pnbeast> I figured he didn't know what sudo is for.
04:52 < rascul> pnbeast that's how it seems
04:52 < m1n> well, I only use su and ed because it just feels right. I tried to use the butterfly wings to stir the eddies in the upper atmosphere, thereby redirecting the cosmic rays to flip the desired bits (even better than root access), but it didn't seem to work for me *shrug*
04:53 < rascul> m1n you have to go outside to use butterflies
04:53 < popnfloss> or just keep it simple and stick to the old method thats worked since the 1970s
04:53 < edisonbulb> just in case anyone reads the channel logs and is looking for an answer to my question: export INSTALL_MOD_PATH=/mnt is the solution
04:53 < edisonbulb> run it before running make modules_install
04:53 < jml2> rascul, i hate butterflies -- they remind me of MS' 4 color-wing things
04:53 < m1n> rascul, you're. a. fucking. genius.
04:53 < jml2> rascul, got my swapper
04:53 < rascul> popnfloss problem is, su doesn't always work, if for example you want fine grained access control
04:53 < popnfloss> before openbsd autists started ruining *nix
04:53 < rascul> how about not making fun of autism?
04:53 < jml2> popnfloss, you mean "autistics"
04:54 < edisonbulb> i am autistic
04:54 < popnfloss> you already have "fine grained access control" its called groups
04:54 < jml2> popnfloss, no, it's called "cgroups"
04:54 < jml2> :P
04:54 < rascul> groups serve a different purpose
04:54 < jml2> cgroups gives grained-access controls to resources
04:54 < popnfloss> edisonbulb: you'll make lots of friends here then
04:55 < edisonbulb> popnfloss: i don't know, i haven't been impressed by the kinds of folks i've met on IRC in the past
04:55 < rascul> i doubt many people come here to make friends
04:55 < jml2> fine-grained access control with disk/file permission --->>> ACL <<<----
04:55 < jml2> that I betcha
04:55 < popnfloss> i doubt many people here have friends
04:55 < m1n> autism, I have found, can be just as much a benefit as a curse. Then again, everyone just is, and so shall everything be—just as is.
04:55 < edisonbulb> autism is a double-edged sword
04:55 < jml2> popnfloss, I bet you don't use linux
04:55 < jml2> popnfloss, ^
04:56 < popnfloss> what is linux
04:56 < m1n> baby don't hurt me
04:56 < jml2> exactly, that's my point
04:56 < edisonbulb> one side helps you, the other side damages you
04:57 < m1n> edisonbulb, everything is relative. No one (except that one kid from high school … curse you, Chris!!) is perfect
04:57 < edisonbulb> LOL
04:57 < rascul> popnfloss must be nt
04:57 < jml2> edisonbulb, stop laughing like me, that's not cool
04:57 < m1n> imitation is the highest form of flattery
04:58 < jml2> gotta wait antoher 5 minutes for this baby to finish downloading
04:58 < rascul> m1n not necessarily
04:58 < m1n> NECESSARILY!
04:58 < edisonbulb> i do find the thing ppl assume about ppl with autism being emotionless to be annoying
04:58 < m1n> I was just parroting what others have come to say due to similar parroting, but I agree
04:59 < edisonbulb> i have emotion, i just don't express it
04:59 < m1n> that it's not necessarily true
04:59  * rascul lacks empathy
04:59  * m1n has too much empathy, and it is a hinderance
05:00 < rascul> funny sometimes how the spectrum works
05:00 < jml2> m1n, that's what's just called being a woman
05:00 < m1n> similarly, in contradiction with autism, to a degree, m1n focuses on way too many things at once. must. do. everything.
05:00 < AnAceFace> anyone using neomutt?
05:00  * djvb has no empathy for empaths.
05:00 < rascul> i do lots of things, complete some of them
05:00 < pnbeast> AnAceFace, have you ever read about how to ask useful questions in IRC?
05:00 < jml2> AnAceFace, what's that?
05:00 < jml2> AnAceFace, a neo-nazi mutt?
05:01 < m1n> AnAceFace, WHAT'D YOU CALL ME
05:01 < rascul> i would suspect neomutt is a (modern?) fork of the mail client mutt
05:01 < AnAceFace> jml2: an email client
05:01 < AnAceFace> based off of mutt
05:01 < edisonbulb> neomutt = modern mutt (unix email client)
05:01 < m1n> I'M NOT A MUTT. YOU'RE A MUTT
05:01 < AnAceFace> I'm a mutt
05:01 < jml2> AnAceFace, oh I see there's a "mutt" package here with a "neomutt" patch XDXDX
05:02 < jml2> "This package is built with the NeoMutt patchset"  (package "mutt" in debian)
05:02 < edisonbulb> true story: one time i tried to use irssi, accidentally hit some button that flooded the channel, and got banned from freenode
05:02 < edisonbulb> like 8 years ago
05:02 < rascul> ahh ok so neomutt is essentially just a patchset for mutt
05:03 < jml2> AnAceFace, have you heard of butt?
05:03  * m1n thinks that tequila + boredom + irc do not go too well. or do they? I apologize and shall retire. Good day and night to all and to all a good day and night
05:03 < pnbeast> !ops SGautam seems to be confused about who he is.
05:03 < jml2> AnAceFace, jk
05:03 < jml2> AnAceFace, XD
05:03 < SGautam> pnbeast: what
05:03 < djvb> I'm more of a retromutt than a neomutt.
05:03 < pnbeast> SGautam, what part confused you?  Stop changing your nicks.
05:04 < edisonbulb> where is the official sysvinit source code
05:04 < edisonbulb> it seems there are like 20 versions floating around
05:04 < SGautam> pnbeast: okay chill, we're shitposting in another channel rn
05:04 < SGautam> i'll leave for now
05:04 < jml2> SGautam, don't drop the bar of soap (remember)
05:04 < jml2> SGautam, good luck chap
05:05 < rascul> edisonbulb unix system v
05:05 < edisonbulb> would the opensolaris version do
05:05 < rascul> not if you want the original
05:05 < edisonbulb> pretty unixy
05:05 < rascul> i didn't think opensolaris was on sysvinit though
05:06 < edisonbulb> idk i just assumed it was
05:06 < edisonbulb> LOL
05:06 < edisonbulb> what about the one on savannah
05:06 < rascul> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_Management_Facility
05:06 < rascul> i don't know what's on savannah
05:06 < edisonbulb> https://download.savannah.gnu.org/releases/sysvinit/
05:06 < rascul> i don't think the original code is even open source
05:06 < jml2> ok time for me to test out extix
05:06 < jml2> hmmm
05:07 < m1n> does anyone believe that one can really love another? Does it not seem equally reasonable that everyone is merely in love with the idea of being in love and having relations of a certain kind with others so as to satisfy their own wants and desires and assuage one's own hurt/loneliness?
05:07 < edisonbulb> ##defocus
05:07 < Two_Dogs> i am not gonna google assuage
05:07 < m1n> life is so plain, yet people are so good at making it seem as though it is more than it is
05:08 < edisonbulb> fuck it, i'm using systemd
05:08 < Two_Dogs> edisonbulb: kudos sir
05:08 < rascul> edisonbulb actually it looks like you would want system 3 init which is apparently what turned into the init for system v https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Init#SysV-style
05:08 < jml2> ha had to guess the stupid live password--- """live"""
05:08 < Two_Dogs> edisonbulb: systemd is wonderful
05:08 < m1n> assuage means to alleviate, Two_Dogs
05:08  * jml2 is a genius
05:09 < triceratux> jml2: cnzzzzzzz
05:09 < rascul> i very much dislike systemd, but the unit files are easy and it's generally a pain nowadays to not use systemd, so i finally gave in
05:09 < rascul> not at all happy about it though
05:09 < pnbeast> But it is wonderful.  I wonder about it all the time.
05:09 < jml2> triceratux, twas reading earlier today about something about fixing the bootloader --- just before i try to do an install
05:09 < jml2> triceratux, twas twas
05:10 < jml2> triceratux, monkey told me twice about it -- gotta run this
05:10 < jml2> triceratux, monkey say monkey do
05:10 < Two_Dogs> i find systemd extremely useful, no troll
05:11 < Two_Dogs> it would be nice to see plasma under full systemd control
05:11 < edisonbulb> i think the most useful and addictive thing for linux is musl-gcc
05:12 < m1n> [ °] ← there is the door, Two_Dogs
05:12 < pnbeast> I find it does what other init systems do, but it keeps growing in scope and doing everything else.  When do we get the email client and text editors added in?
05:12 < edisonbulb> ./configure CC=musl-gcc;make
05:12 < rascul> pnbeast sooner or later the systemd devs are going to get into another fight with the kernel devs and they'll just make their own kernel
05:13 < Two_Dogs> pnbeast: simple, systemd-run kmail !done
05:13 < edisonbulb> isn't the job of init just to spawn processes and kill them if they misbehave
05:13  * iflema waits for 3
05:13 < rascul> edisonbulb not anymore
05:14 < pnbeast> rascul, then the init system will be starting the init system.  My brain is exploding.
05:14 < rascul> pnbeast don't think too hard about it
05:14 < edisonbulb> i mean i guess you could do some scheduling from init
05:14 < rascul> you can
05:14 < edisonbulb> run this at this time, etc
05:14 < pnbeast> I am working hard to get down to windows-user levels of thought.
05:14 < rascul> systemd has timers
05:14 < Two_Dogs> i was lucky, i never fully grasped pre systemd
05:15 < rascul> because cron is too hard for poettering i guess
05:15  * pnbeast drools, then clicks, then drools, then clicks, then drools some more.
05:15 < Two_Dogs> rascul: you got a good point, cron is still running on opensuse
05:16 < edisonbulb> i guess the traditional method would be for init to spawn cron, which then does the scheduling
05:16 < rascul> Two_Dogs yeah but cron is redundant now if you're using systemd
05:16  * jml2 https://ssd.eff.org/en/module/how-use-keepassxc
05:17 < edisonbulb> honestly every system other than FreeBSD i've used has seemed needlessly complicated (i don't know of a similar linux distro, this isn't trolling i promise)
05:17 < rascul> slackware is maybe the closest linux distro to freebsd?
05:18 < edisonbulb> what are my options other than sysvinit and systemd
05:18 < aBound> Wouldn't Gentoo be the closest as it's package manager is similar to FreeBSD.
05:18 < fendur> really? Does slackware have a decent package management system these days?
05:18 < triceratux> edisonbulb: openrc
05:19 < rascul> edisonbulb there's like 3000 different init systems you can run
05:20 < Two_Dogs> there must be a glitch in timers that forces cron to run as service
05:20 < rascul> systemd, sysvinit, bsdinit, openrc, upstart (discontinued now i think), epoch, runit, suckless...
05:20 < rascul> Two_Dogs why would there be a glitch?
05:21 < edisonbulb> upstart is canonical-ese
05:21 < edisonbulb> along with Mir
05:21 < rascul> i'm not sure why you think systemd timers would force cron to run as a service?
05:21 < Two_Dogs> rascul: not sure, i am running cron service
05:21 < rascul> that's how cron is supposed to run...
05:22 < rascul> systemd timers can potentially replace cron though, but suse hasn't done that yet
05:22 < edisonbulb> wtf is this meson shit
05:22 < rascul> no clue what meson is
05:22 < Two_Dogs> yeap, cron is still relied on
05:22 < jml2> upstart was easy to use imho ... but then canonical was smart enough to follow debian's lead of choice with systemd :)))
05:23 < jml2> Mir is long-dead
05:23 < jml2> mwahahaha
05:23 < jml2> the space station and Canonical's little display project xd
05:23 < edisonbulb> does GNU have an init package
05:23 < edisonbulb> they should
05:23 < jml2> edisonbulb, yep
05:23 < jml2> edisonbulb, it's called GNU-INIT
05:24 < jml2> check out their "guix" project, that'll give you hints...
05:24 < edisonbulb> looks like it's called "The Shepherd"
05:24 < jml2> "GuixSD uses the GNU Daemon Shepherd as its init system,"
05:25 < aBound> jml2: MIR seems to be alive and well.
05:25 < aBound> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Logind-For-Mir-WIP
05:25 < edisonbulb> GNU packages work so well
05:26 < rascul> mir is indeed actively developed still https://github.com/MirServer/mir
05:26 < toothe> err...how does one change the default "search" in /etc/resolv.conf?
05:26 < toothe> on ubuntu?
05:26 < jml2> they dropped it for everything else except for their little IoT things tehehehe
05:26 < jml2> canonicalolles
05:27 < jml2> toothe, triceratux can tell ya
05:27 < jml2> toothe, XDXD
05:27 < rascul> mir is silly anyway, it only exists because canonical devs couldn't read wayland docs and got mad when wayland devs tried to explain it
05:27  * jml2 hides!
05:27 < toothe> so, remember how I screwed up my machine?
05:27 < jml2> triceratux, sucker! :p
05:27 < triceratux> toothe: what version of ubuntu ?
05:27 < toothe> i got it back in a few hours.
05:27  * triceratux hides
05:27 < toothe> its mInt, actually.
05:27 < toothe> But...Ubuntu = Mint.
05:27 < aBound> Minty.
05:27 < jml2> triceratux, too late I hid first, you must help him!! :p
05:27 < jml2> triceratux, freeloader!!! >:|
05:28 < toothe> literally the only reason I go with Mint over Ubuntu and installing Cinnamon is because the theme doesn't look good.
05:28 < toothe> Mint's theme is awesome.
05:28 < toothe> And...despite google, asking people, stack overflow, etc....I could never figure out how to modify a gTK theme.
05:28 < aBound> Modifying.
05:28 < Two_Dogs> toothe: waiting on new cinnamon long?
05:28 < toothe> pardon?
05:29 < aBound> Maybe someone could write a tool to change themes easier. :P
05:29 < Two_Dogs> the new cinnamon on 19.x
05:29 < toothe> oh? I don't know what I'm missing.
05:30 < aBound> Does Linux Mint have there Debian version still I wonder.
05:30 < rascul> yes
05:31 < toothe> Yes...let me check
05:31 < jml2> aBound, lmde if they still make it
05:31 < jml2> aBound, they at one point iirc were supposed to fully migrate to a debian base but never did
05:31 < aBound> https://linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php
05:31 < jml2> aBound, they had change of plans
05:31 < toothe> https://www.linuxmint.com/rel_debian.php
05:31 < toothe> haha
05:31 < toothe> I like Cinammon a lot. I can't find another window manager like it.
05:31 < aBound> jml2: I don't think it's been updated.
05:31 < toothe> And I can't figure out how to customize gnome.
05:32 < toothe> Despite....2 weeks of trying to figure out.
05:32 < edisonbulb> why is it half of the official release packages of stuff i download build with errors
05:32 < edisonbulb> i thought the point of , umm... point releases was to prevent that
05:33 < jml2> edisonbulb, because that's how opensource projects get their donations
05:33 < aBound> edisonbulb: Did you upgrade or make a fresh install.
05:33 < toothe> gah, I can't figure out how to use resolv.conf on ubuntu
05:33 < jml2> edisonbulb, if you half-like it and say hmm I want this better, you give them money... and that's what people do
05:33 < jml2> edisonbulb, they donate
05:33 < jml2> edisonbulb, and donate
05:33 < jml2> edisonbulb, until they become rich
05:34 < edisonbulb> i doubt gnu is using that strategy
05:34 < jml2> edisonbulb, and then they fix it with a "#" sign ... and that makes people happy
05:34 < edisonbulb> anywhay, i'm trying to build shepherd 0.4.0
05:34 < Two_Dogs> toothe: to use resolv.conf you need to remove resolv app
05:35 < jml2> triceratux, ^ your dogs are talkin'  XDXD
05:35 < toothe> there's a resolv app?
05:35 < jml2> remove the resolv app! hahahah, how'd you know he even has the "resolv" app ?
05:35 < Two_Dogs> jml2: cause hes on ubuntu
05:35 < jml2> woof woof
05:35 < aBound> Buntu donuts.
05:37 < jml2> hmm donuts...
05:37 < well_laid_lawn> the donuts make me go nuts
05:38 < jml2> I like sprinkle colored donuts, and fluffy ones too
05:38 < well_laid_lawn> just remember the pie is a lie
05:39  * aBound prefers maple bars 
05:43 < parsnip> why is ^8 backspace in terminal?
05:43 < parsnip> where does that convention come from?
05:44 < parsnip> discussing on #emacs, that ^2..^8 map to ^[..^?
05:44 < pnbeast> Maybe the same place as the ^h convention?
05:45 < parsnip> it's tempting to point out h is the 8th letter
05:45 < parsnip> but ^g is bell i think, which is ^@
05:50 < edisonbulb> parsnip: 8 is the codepoint for backspace in ASCII
05:51 < Psi-Jack> Finally. Fully automated Let's Encrypt updating, across several servers.
05:51 < jml2> you gotta update that lencryptionness every 3 months tehehe
05:51 < parsnip> oh. so ^8 is BS, not DEL?
05:52 < Psi-Jack> jml2: I just finished getting a acme.sh wrapper script to automate that process, utilizing Amazon S3 to distribute it to multiple servers. heh
05:53 < TheNH813> Allright, how how I create a custom filetype for Gnome-MPlayer or Parole?
05:53 < TheNH813> I have the required binary to play it, just how to I use it to play the file inside the media player?
05:53 < TheNH813> libsidplayfp is the binary by the way.
05:54 < TheNH813> It's for playing Commodore 64 SID files. Except I needed a build that supported a special filter. Which I now have.
05:54 < TheNH813> Registering what a filetype plays with didn't return any useful results in searches. Mainly just stuff for windows.
05:54 < learningc> Which libraries are worth to learn If I want to become a good programmer?
05:55 < TheNH813> Libraries? What do you mean by that? Libraries to implement into a program?
05:56 < parsnip> C-q C-8 in emacs inserts ^?
05:56 < parsnip> and C-h k C-8 reports DEL
05:56 < TheNH813> I have no idea what that does. Never used emacs.
05:57 < parsnip> TheNH813: 20:43 <parsnip> why is ^8 backspace in terminal?
05:57 < TheNH813> parsnip: Is that the ascii code for backspace?
05:57 < parsnip> then someone suggested it was BS, codepoint 8, but i'm guessing not.
05:57 < parsnip> ah, my bad for saying backspace.
05:58 < parsnip> BS and DEL are different, codepoints 8 and 127
05:59 < jml2> learningc, libraries or language?
05:59 < jml2> learningc, I highly recommend java
06:00 < jml2> learningc, fortune 500 companies use it
06:00 < learningc> jml2, ok, I will keep in mind of java
06:01 < jml2> learningc, -> http://www.eclipse.org/
06:01 < jml2> learningc, best java ide -- that is never going away -- millions of plugins
06:01 < learningc> What about libraries?  Should not a good programmer know of some sort of standard libraries to program with?
06:01 < jml2> learningc, you'll be interested in java servlets and "devops" things with java
06:02 < TheNH813> jml2: Do you know where I can look for info on adding support for a custom filetype to Gnome-Mplayer? I have the executable that decodes it.
06:02 < TheNH813> I tried everywhere and didn't get much.
06:06 < jml2> that's a problem, xdg-mime tools are always changing --- but in general you should be able to query and assign using xdg-* things
06:06 < jml2> (xdg-* commands)
06:06 < TheNH813> Hmm....
06:06 < TheNH813> Good idea.
06:12 < learningc> jml2, what can I do with java on embedded systems?
06:12 < parsnip> does everyone see ^[ if they type in a terminal "cat" then "ctrl+2"?
06:13 < emu_rider> parsnip: Not for me no
06:13 < parsnip> hmm
06:13 < syb0rg> parsnip, I see ^@
06:13 < parsnip> oh whoops, yeah ^@
06:13 < TheNH813> I also see ^@
06:13 < emu_rider> Im using konsole though, if it makes a difference
06:14 < parsnip> i think ctrl3 ==> ^[
06:14 < syb0rg> xfce4-terminal here
06:14 < TheNH813> ^[ is esc I think
06:14 < parsnip> so it must be a linux thing
06:14 < TheNH813> Hmmm.... yes. ^[ is esc.
06:14 < parsnip> but i don't see it documented anywhere
06:14 < TheNH813> I think it's the standard esc sequences.
06:15 < parsnip> which ones?
06:15 < emu_rider> parsnip: Ah i see it now
06:15 < parsnip> someone on #emacs noticed, for ctrl+2 through ctrl+8
06:15 < jml2> "<TheNH813> libsidplayfp is the binary by the way."
06:16 < jml2> TheNH813, you should have created a .desktop file for that custom binary -- and then use xdg-desktop-menu to install that .desktop
06:16 < jml2> TheNH813, then you can associate file.extension with that app
06:17 < jml2> learningc, java midlets are a commercial failure over a decade ago
06:17 < jml2> learningc, :)
06:17 < TheNH813> jml2: That's very doable. Problem is most .osid files end up looping infinitely. Then I need to do a 'killall libsidplayfp'.
06:17 < TheNH813> jml2: I wanted to register it as a codec. But that will work for now.
06:18 < TheNH813> The player does accept a end after loop for x seconds parameter.
06:18 < jml2> TheNH813, fp -- for playing .swf things? XD
06:19 < TheNH813> No, it decodes and plays binary dumps of code for the MOS 6580 audio chip. Which was used in the commodore 64.
06:19 < jml2> TheNH813, is that for music creation?
06:20 < jml2> TheNH813, i mean you're using this for authoring?
06:20 < TheNH813> No. The commodore 64 is a old computer from the 80s.
06:20 < TheNH813> I have a large collection of thousands of the audio files ripped from games.
06:20 < TheNH813> They played fine on ubuntu, wonder if I can steal some config files.
06:20 < jml2> i know in know.. cuz here i have a plugin in my ardour to simulate old synth chips with those nice 'ol retro sounds :)
06:20 < TheNH813> Ah, I see.
06:21 < TheNH813> Yeah there's a nice plugin in LMMS for SID emulation.
06:22 < TheNH813> My problem is really bizarre. Gnome-mplayer plays some of them, just not the ones containing a header called "OSID".
06:22 < TheNH813> And if I hex edit it to "PSID", it plays, with without the special PCM samples.
06:22 < TheNH813> I'm definitely gonna try borrowing some config from ubuntu.
06:23 < jml2> TheNH813, have you checked goattracker?
06:23 < TheNH813> Never heard of it, so that's a definitive no.
06:24 < TheNH813> git clone https://aur.archlinux.org/goattracker.git
06:24 < TheNH813> Woops wrong window
06:24 < jml2> TheNH813, i just queried "sid" with apt XD
06:25 < TheNH813> I don't have APT. Switched to arch a month or so ago. lol.
06:25 < TheNH813> Not in repo, but is available as a automatic source build.
06:26 < TheNH813> so for the git clone
06:27 < Sane> Hi, guys. Quick question, how can I fix my Ubuntu packages. 404 and couldn't find package? I've tried updating the links but it's not working
06:28 < edisonbulb> I'm passing an initrd to my kernel but it's still trying to mount as if it had a root=
06:28 < edisonbulb> wtf
06:28 < TheNH813> Sane: Check internet connection to the package mirror you're using.
06:28 < TheNH813> For example, if the mirror is us.ubuntu.com
06:28 < TheNH813> Try 'ping us.ubuntu.com' to see if it's alive.
06:29 < Sane> TheNH813, I think all the ones I've tried are outdated or something. What the current command to replace the mirros
06:29 < Sane> What is*
06:29 < TheNH813> 'apt-get update' to update the package list.
06:29 < Sane> Doesn't work
06:29 < TheNH813> Then it's a connection problem.
06:29 < TheNH813> What mirror is being used?
06:30 < TheNH813> cat /etc/apt/sources.list
06:30 < edisonbulb> can you pastebin your sources.list pls
06:30 < Sane> Fails to fetch
06:30 < TheNH813> pastebin the results of 'cat /etc/apt/sources.list'
06:31 < Sane> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu
06:32 < TheNH813> What version of ubuntu, Sane?
06:33 < TheNH813> cat /etc/lsb-release
06:33 < TheNH813> What does it say in there?
06:34 < Sane> Ubuntu 9.04 jaunty - TheNH813
06:34 < TheNH813> Yeah that distro is long dead.
06:34 < Psi-Jack> 9.04? That's WAY too old.
06:34 < TheNH813> No repos because it's been unsupported for YEARS
06:35 < syb0rg> damn, 9.04?
06:35 < Sane> I had it working before
06:35 < TheNH813> Update to 16.04 or newer to recieve packages and updates.
06:35 < Sane> But had to do a fresh
06:35 < TheNH813> Really?
06:35 < Sane> Yeah
06:35 < Psi-Jack> 9.04 is long since EOL.
06:35 < syb0rg> Why would you want such an old release, Sane?
06:35 < Sane> Changed some linls and it worked
06:35 < Psi-Jack> As in, unsupported. As in. Time to upgrade
06:35 < iflema> 9.04 9.10 what monsters
06:35 < Sane> It's andLinux
06:36 < Psi-Jack> Or, in your case, reinstall anew, because there's not even an upgrade path anymore.
06:36 < TheNH813> Andlinux?
06:36 < syb0rg> The major version number of the latest release is double what you are on now, Sane. Lol
06:36 < TheNH813> I know what that is.
06:36 < TheNH813> What OS are you running it from? Windows 7, 8, 8.1 or 10?
06:36  * syb0rg suggests that Sane's name is inaccurate 
06:36 < Sane> lol
06:37 < Psi-Jack> 14.04 is still supported, until early 2019. But that's pretty much the earliest supported version.
06:37 < TheNH813> Sane: You might be better using mingw.
06:37 < TheNH813> Or cygwin
06:38 < TheNH813> Or a virtual machine.
06:38 < TheNH813> I do remember using AndLinux though. Those days are long dead for me.
06:39 < jml2> TheNH813, he's the last user of AndLinux, let's give him ice cream
06:39 < Sane> Tbh
06:39 < Sane> I love it
06:39 < TheNH813> jml2: Indeed.
06:39 < jml2> lol
06:39 < Psi-Jack> Sane: Well, it's unsupported.
06:39 < jml2> burrry him in a snow man
06:40 < TheNH813> Sane: It is genuinely useful imo. But man it's so out of date.
06:40 < Psi-Jack> And... Technically... It's not really even Linux.
06:40 < Psi-Jack> Since it's running under.. Windows.
06:41 < TheNH813> It's a linux kernel running as a windows binary I think. With it's own disk image for software. It's a pile of hacks on top of a pile of hacks.
06:41 < Psi-Jack> It's a fork of a linux kernel that is running within Windows,
06:41 < Psi-Jack> With a whole lotta hacks, yes.
06:41 < TheNH813> Sane: But if you genuinely need to use it, try a restart of it and then apt-get update again.
06:42 < TheNH813> Could a network bug in the kernel.
06:42 < Psi-Jack> And no, it's using some foreign CoFS (coLinux File System) for the filesystem.
06:42 < jml2> "<Sane> Maybe someone can help me connect to the net by looking at this for me: https://48h.pics/tnuakmS30.jpg"
06:42 < jml2> ^
06:43 < Sane> jml2: I solved the connection issues
06:43 < jml2> Sane, interesting you solved it
06:43 < jml2> :)
06:43 < Sane> with a fresh but then I lost my changed to the packages, lel
06:43 < Sane> changes
06:43 < TheNH813> Allright. Good to know it's working again. I wonder if one could convince it to do a upgrade though every major version to 18.04. That would be pure pain though.
06:44 < jml2> TheNH813, last supported 7 years ago. pffp good luck
06:45 < Psi-Jack> 12.04 is the /earliest/ version of Ubuntu still in the archives.
06:45 < Psi-Jack> So, there's no upgrade path.
06:45 < Sane> jml2: it was to do with CoFS and SAMBA not playing nice
06:45 < Psi-Jack> Nor would that likely work with andLinux.
06:45 < Psi-Jack> If you want Linux, run Linux. If not.... Well, don't. Simple.
06:46 < Sane> Psi-Jack: it's not that black and white
06:46 < Psi-Jack> Yes it very much is.
06:46 < TheNH813> At least on Windows 10 you can install a Ubuntu based distro from add remove features.
06:46 < TheNH813> If you really need it.
06:46 < jml2> Sane, black and white like ying-yang.. That distro is kapout.. it's no longer supported near to a decade..
06:47 < jml2> Sane, rescue any user data you have with it, and simply use vbox
06:47 < Mistell> Sane: Glad to hear you fixed it
06:47 < jml2> Mistell, butt
06:47 < jml2> Mistell, then you need to find a way to support a distro last released 7 years ago :)))
06:47 < jml2> butt man!!!
06:47 < edisonbulb> why not just download a modern iso and install it
06:48 < Mistell> Wait a minute...
06:48 < Mistell> http://www.andlinux.org/
06:48 < Mistell> this looks 100% useless
06:48 < edisonbulb> move all your files and shit to an external hdd
06:48 < Mistell> please nuke and restart.
06:48 < Psi-Jack> LOL
06:48 < Mistell> literally has no point
06:48 < Mistell> pls stap
06:48 < syb0rg> that actually looks pretty cool, just horrible outdated
06:48 < syb0rg> *horribly
06:49 < Psi-Jack> andLinux never even got out of beta.
06:49 < Mistell> thankfully
06:49 < Psi-Jack> ^ Agreed.
06:49 < jml2> Sane must be the baby still stuck in his crib...
06:49 < TheNH813> It is/was quite a interesting project. I was experimenting with it before I actually installed Linux.
06:49 < syb0rg> they even were wise enough to choose xfce
06:50 < Psi-Jack> And the good versions of KDE.
06:50 < syb0rg> I mean if I were stuck using windows I wouldn't mind being able to still run my linux apps, there are better options now but this is still cool
06:51 < jml2> who next want to be the prodigy-child of a failed distribution? XDXD
06:51 < TheNH813> KDE is a memory hog, but I really like it. XFCE gets second place for me, and JWM+Rox gets third.
06:51 < syb0rg> KDE was buggy and had an annoying circle I couldn't get rid of last time I used it
06:52 < emu_rider> gnome uses the most memory out of all DEs though right?
06:52 < TheNH813> I have Plasma 5.12.4-2 right now.
06:52 < jml2> emu_rider, i hate gnome3 things, crap -- i'm limitting my sanity to gnome2x mint/mate forks...
06:52 < syb0rg> probably? I know it isn't lightweight
06:52 < TheNH813> Gnome also eats memory a lot. Looks nice, but isn't my style.
06:53 < Two_Dogs> i can keep plasma boot idle down to 380meg, minux akonadi, thats not hogging!!
06:53 < syb0rg> I just like clean, simple interfaces, so xfce wins for me
06:53 < jml2> i just want my application window frames to look good. hence I use mint mate.. and for nothing else really
06:53 < emu_rider> And the memory leak in gnome...not sure if that is fixed now
06:53 < jml2> i dont care about anything else
06:53 < emu_rider> Personally I prefer KDE
06:54 < Two_Dogs> emu_rider: +1
06:54 < jml2> emu_rider, then you use karma..
06:54 < jml2> *cough*
06:54 < jml2> emu_rider, i mean plasma
06:54 < TheNH813> I remember trying Mate on a Pentium 4 once. Pegged the CPU core to 100%. Poor old hardware couldn't handle even the indexing of icons and effects for the menu.
06:54 < syb0rg> I used KDE like a decade ago and liked it. Five years ago I didn't think it was very good, but it could be nicer now
06:54 < jml2> XD
06:54 < jsgrant> syb0rg: Just switched to XFCE on my dev-box & gets me about 85% of where I want it
06:54 < TheNH813> No wait it wasn't mate it was cinnamon
06:54 < jsgrant> A lot of litte niggles; but mostly there
06:54 < syb0rg> what's the other 15% jsgrant?
06:55 < jml2> syb0rg, it is actually very nicer now -- kubuntu rocks
06:55 < jml2> syb0rg, but i'm not sure on its resource efficiency --- or stability
06:55 < syb0rg> It is time to upgrade my desktop soon now that 18.04 is out, so I might give kubuntu a shot
06:55 < jml2> syb0rg, looks good, but is it functional that is the question
06:55 < syb0rg> on my desktop I have no resource scarcity to be concerned with
06:55 < jml2> i need to use kde plasma long enough to make a formal opinion on it
06:56 < TheNH813> syb0rg: If you have 4GB of ram or more, go for it.
06:56 < syb0rg> My desktop has 32 lol
06:56 < TheNH813> More then enough. d:
06:56 < jsgrant> syb0rg: Want 'dynamic workspaces', proper in-built optional dock (if they can ship xdashboard ... come-on), better window snapping, whisker-menu being default and using super, and/or some krunner like search
06:56 < syb0rg> my laptop has only four though, so I might even switch it to lubuntu soon
06:56 < jsgrant> Probably a few more things here & there; Ran into a few weird bugs too
06:57 < Prof_Birch> Is it possible to run two IPC services
06:57 < Prof_Birch> Such as Binder and Dbus
06:57 < jsgrant> Namely trying to dual-monitor, left-most screen always is primary even if not set to
06:57 < emu_rider> I think KDE only uses a bit more ram than xfce right?
06:57 < Mistell> psssst. try i3
06:57 < syb0rg> Mistell, how much ram booting to i3?
06:58 < Psi-Jack> syb0rg: i3 uses a few megabytes.
06:58 < Mistell> You mean how much does i3 consume?
06:58 < TheNH813> A word of warning: If you sign into your email on KMail, expect several hours of unusability if you have over 10k emails. It takes akonadi a long time to copy it all into the mysql database.
06:58 < syb0rg> :-O
06:58 < syb0rg> yes Mistell
06:58 < jsgrant> emu_rider: Was actually on Plasma for awhile, after LXQT left me disappointed; Notably slowly. Not really 'slow' but not nearly as snappy on my low-to-mid-tier T430.
06:58 < Psi-Jack> 7MB
06:58 < syb0rg> that is fucking crazy
06:58 < jsgrant> Certainly a lot more configuration-wise though
06:58 < syb0rg> I need that in my life lol
06:58 < Psi-Jack> syb0rg: Kindly mind the language.
06:58 < syb0rg> sorry, np
06:58 < TheNH813> 7MB? That's insanely low.
06:59 < Psi-Jack> That's i3. :)
06:59 < emu_rider> jsgrant: Im using x1, thats probably why :p
06:59  * jsgrant has tried to become less idealist/utopian -- swore off tiling-wms & Emacs & even more recently vim as-of the past year
06:59 < Psi-Jack> wut?
07:00 < jsgrant> Was using Stumpwm x Emacs for years, very happily; Never really messed with i3wm but hour or two I touched seemed fine
07:00 < Two_Dogs> there is something disappointing about lxqt, looks ancient, feels ancient
07:00 < jml2> Two_Dogs, that's double-bitching
07:00 < emu_rider> Personally I dont use vim nor emac
07:00 < emu_rider> Geany is the best editor
07:00 < jml2> triceratux, ^ someone is attacking lxqt
07:00 < jml2> lol
07:01 < TheNH813> Geany is the best.
07:01 < TheNH813> Vim gets second place.
07:01 < TheNH813> Nano gets third.
07:01 < TheNH813> And the others are 'good enough'.
07:01 < TheNH813> lol
07:01 < emu_rider> 95% of the time I use geany, 5% nano
07:01 < Two_Dogs> i nano
07:01 < jml2> lxqt is the sucessor project of razorqt and lxde devs iirc
07:02 < edisonbulb> i use vi 100% of the time
07:02 < Psi-Jack> A mail composer clone for a "text editor?" https://i.imgur.com/Br00TCn.mp4
07:02 < jml2> i loved the razor DE.... too bad it went ditch, i forget where the devs went after that.. i think they probably just took up into lxde and xfce .. mind me not saying XFCE is a very great project....
07:02 < jml2> but i still liked the older looks with razorqt
07:03 < jsgrant> Psi-Jack: I have an aptitude towards obsessive personality, that world really enabled that; I feel like I tell this everywhere -- but was a few weeks (probably at most) at one-point, of releasing the first version of a  "tiling-desktop environment" on top of the aforementioned Stumpwm x Emacs & had a roadmap that was so utopian, I was getting worried I was starting to border the beginnings of Terry A Davis territory & in a panic I
07:03 < jsgrant> deleted literal months of full-time work...
07:03 < jsgrant> And then kept finding older and older versions I backed up to random places, and half "relapsing" back until I deleted everything again like 5 times till everything was "gone"
07:04 < jml2> anyone here used razorqt?
07:04 < jml2> that's long time ago
07:04 < jsgrant> jml2: Isn't it dead for LXQT?
07:04 < jml2> jsgrant, no shit sherlock
07:04 < jml2> jsgrant, I used to use it! :)
07:04 < jml2> (a lot !)
07:04 < jsgrant> jml2: Sas
07:04 < Two_Dogs> kde apps work well on cinnamon with qt5ct and cinn aint too bad a front end
07:05 < jsgrant> Sending out an S A S
07:05 < edisonbulb> http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/312/254/f58.png
07:05 < edisonbulb> warning: offensive image
07:05 < edisonbulb> take w/ grain of salt
07:06 < TheNH813> I'v seen that on /r/linuxmemes
07:06 < TheNH813> XD
07:06 < syb0rg> I hope these aren't the only two options
07:06 < jml2> yeah if anyone here ever used razorqt, it really was "good" until its later days until it starting breaking due to new features....  and then the project stopped. pity. LXDE back then was crap.
07:07 < jml2> but now, things are different.
07:07 < jml2> utopians can really quite exists... hmmm maybe XD
07:09 < m1KeY_> gosh fcrackzip isn't working. anybody ever use that tool? fortunately i remembered the password for this zip file but i tried fcrackzip out.
07:10 < m1KeY_> it worked with the examples it came with in /usr/share/doc/fcrackzip, but it isn't working on this zip file i just made to test it out.
07:12 < edisonbulb> you know, i think i found that on reddit too now that i think of it
07:12 < TheNH813> lol
07:13 < jsgrant> It's really weird working back into looking at "non-mainstream" (comparatively at least) desktop-environments -- because since I switched to Linux like a decade ago, after a year on GNOME2, and another 1 or 2 on then new Unity -- switched to Fedora & distrohopped a lot since then, but if I was using a desktop-environment after that was a pretty constant GNOME3; Mostly was Stumpwm though and exclusively for a few years
07:13 < jsgrant> Kindof toyed with KDE towards the end of 4, but was "this is just Windows" at that time for me -- and really wasn't too interested
07:13 < TheNH813> I think I'm gonna get going. Since I'm just watching YT vids and I have no more questions.
07:14 < TheNH813> Have a good night everyone.
07:16 < Sane> So, I managed to solve the package issue again. Had to manually add: http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu to sources.list because sed had issue
07:17 < edisonbulb> i got dash running as init on a bare kernel
07:17 < edisonbulb> i'm satisfied
07:17 < Prof_Birch> Is it possible to run two separate IPC systems (Dbus and Binder)?
07:18 < mcclapyourhands> can someone help me with a permissions issue?
07:18 < edisonbulb> so many projects are too complicated to be statically built and thrown onto an hdd for running
07:18 < edisonbulb> so sad
07:19 < cmj> dash as streaming proto?
07:19 < pnbeast> mcclapyourhands, don't ask to ask, just ask.
07:19 < edisonbulb> no, i built dash (almquist shell) with "musl-gcc -static" and threw it onto an external hard drive and ran it as an init
07:20 < mcclapyourhands> okay, well I need to create a fileserver for a program that won't run as root and won't run if the permissions of it's directory are changed anyway I can accomplish this?
07:20 < edisonbulb> now i'm gonna do coreutils
07:22 < meltingwax> i have a mult-drive RAID setup, but i can only boot from one of the drives. how can i make it so i can boot from any of the active drives? a simple grub-install didn't work
07:22 < pnbeast> mcclapyourhands, you mean you're writing a fileserver?  For "a program"?
07:22 < mcclapyourhands> no I'm using Samba
07:22 < edisonbulb> mcclapyourhands: no offense but literally nothing in your original post made any kind of sense
07:23 < mouses> mcclapyourhands: i'm having a hard time following you as well
07:23 < mcclapyourhands> alright one second
07:23 < mouses> mcclapyourhands: maybe you need to look into 'umask' and 'sg'
07:23  * mouses shrugs
07:23 < mcclapyourhands> https://cubecoders.com/AMP
07:23 < mcclapyourhands> this is the software that I'm using
07:24 < mcclapyourhands> samba requires that you change the permissions of the folder to read and write to it
07:24 < mcclapyourhands> but the software doesn't like having it's perms changed at all
07:25 < mcclapyourhands> it chmod 667 the folder and if I change that it won't launch
07:25 < pnbeast> mcclapyourhands, that looks horrible - you have my condolences.   So, you have a Linux computer serving files via Samba?  And this "panel" is running on the Samba server, too?
07:26 < mcclapyourhands> no I'm running both via a VM
07:26 < mcclapyourhands> on the same computer
07:26 < jml2> wow, a dumb tool to watch your minecraft server
07:26 < jml2> wow
07:26 < jml2> LOL
07:26 < Mistell> wow
07:26 < Mistell> just wow
07:26 < mcclapyourhands> pretty much
07:27 < mcclapyourhands> it's really convienient
07:27 < Mistell> looks alright
07:27 < pnbeast> I'm losing interest rapidly.  If you can piece together a coherent explanation of what you have and what you want, you should try it, now.
07:27 < Mistell> pnbeast: "Please return to the battlefield!" 10... 9...
07:27 < edisonbulb> if i ran a mc server i would just pay ppl to moderate it
07:27 < sauvin> It's even worse for me because English isn't my first language. Sometimes native speakers baffle me to despair.
07:28 < Mistell> edisonbulb: that's the single most pointless thing I've seen said all day
07:28 < mcclapyourhands> im autistic alright?
07:28 < edisonbulb> anyway to moderate an MC server off your phone, you could install one of those terminals on your phone and SSH into the computer where your server is
07:28 < sauvin> What's an "MC server"?
07:28 < Mistell> No I think edisonbulb takes the cake here my dude
07:29 < jml2> maybe minecraft
07:29 < jml2> hahahaha
07:29 < Mistell> Why try anything to make your life easier when you can just >>insert_10_commands_here
07:29 < mcclapyourhands> I honestly thought what I said made sense
07:29 < sauvin> Try rephrasing it.
07:29 < edisonbulb> "<jml2> wow, a dumb tool to watch your minecraft server"
07:30 < edisonbulb> don't see how what i said was off topic
07:30 < Mistell> This is p clear: samba wants access but a server doesn't like it's permis changed from the install defaults.
07:30 < Mistell> "what a do"
07:30 < jml2> mcclapyourhands posted a link, it was an inference
07:31 < jml2> you watch your minecraft server, but then the whitehouse watches you when you add its Android-app on your phone!
07:31 < edisonbulb> just ssh into your server
07:31 < edisonbulb> omg
07:31 < Mistell> edisonbulb: Why drive to work when you can just walk there omg
07:32 < Mistell> way tf easier no need to deal with _gas_
07:32 < jml2> (there's better tools than this)
07:32 < Mistell> and _talking to the salesman to purchase the car_
07:32 < mcclapyourhands> AMP (the minecraft management panel which allows a easy to use web interface to be shared online) installs itself via a script that chmod 667 the folder I want fileshare
07:32 < edisonbulb> java -jar server.jar | tee /dev/tty > log.txt
07:32 < kbob> quit
07:32 < mcclapyourhands> also I want to drop the command line
07:33 < mcclapyourhands> I prefer a mouse to a confusing list of stuff i gotta remember
07:33 < mcclapyourhands> that's why i'm using samba to fileshare and AMP to manage my server
07:34 < pnbeast> mcclapyourhands, the permission 667 seems mildly insane, or maybe I'm missing something.  And if you don't really want to use Linux, then why *are* you using Linux?  Good luck.
07:34 < Mistell> mcclapyourhands: I'm a bit lost still, sounds like AMP is not very well developed
07:34 < jml2> Mistell, lol
07:34 < Mistell> Wouldn't it have an agent on the box and an API connection going on
07:34 < jml2> Mistell, wouldn't be surprised
07:34 < Mistell> This sounds very brutish
07:34 < Mistell> very... hacked together
07:35 < mcclapyourhands> oh well I tried the windows port sucks and linux was recommended to me... now I know I wasted 25 Dollars on this thing
07:35 < Mistell> LOL
07:35 < Mistell> YOU PAID FOR THIS
07:35 < Mistell> I'm all about trying new things to make life easier
07:35 < jml2> their front page screenshot of their so called monitoring tool looks like brain fart.
07:35 < Mistell> but oh my god
07:35 < sauvin> Paying for stuff is a Windows thing.
07:35 < Mistell> This thing screams "demo me first"
07:36 < sauvin> It's.... a thing.
07:36 < edisonbulb> i pay for music and dvds
07:36 < edisonbulb> but not software
07:36 < Mistell> I'm all about paying for things that are good
07:36 < Mistell> once I've vetted them
07:36 < mcclapyourhands> just like a bunch of make-do linux users who can't appreciate premium software like Action! or Adobe Creative Suite
07:36 < edisonbulb> though i'm not too hot on paying for encrypted dvds
07:36 < edisonbulb> ripoff
07:37 < Mistell> Photoshop is simply _better_ than gimp and that's just that.
07:37 < edisonbulb> why would i appreciate Adobe Creative Suite when i have GIMP and Blender
07:37 < Mistell> Though blender runs Maya for it's moni
07:37 < Mistell> edisonbulb: because autism
07:37 < pnbeast> Awww, did you start to get butthurt, mcclapyourhands?  Linux is hard, isn't it?
07:37 < Mistell> GIMP blows
07:37 < mcclapyourhands> I'm just asking for help
07:37 < Mistell> mcclapyourhands: I'm sorry, you hit #linux at just the wrong time
07:37 < Mistell> :/
07:37 < syb0rg> Mistell, wouldn't be much of a gimp if it didn't.
07:37 < mcclapyourhands> if yall are gonna be asses I'll get my help elsewhere
07:38 < jml2> what I fear nowadays is that users are coming on here asking for supposedly help for "minecraft" servers AND for WSL configurations...
07:38 < jml2> ^
07:38 < edisonbulb> I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be mean
07:38 < Mistell> syb0rg: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
07:38 < pnbeast> I think it just started to descend below that, mcclapyourhands.  Please do go elsewhere.
07:38 < edisonbulb> Just trying to share what I would do if I were in your situation
07:38 < sauvin> I don't mind paying for stuff when I see a clear advantage in doing so. It just doesn't happen often.
07:39 < Mistell> I think the MC server thing is hopeless because it really doesn't show promise towards wanting to learn linux.
07:39 < sauvin> Knowing no different, however, I find GIMP to be very, very capable.
07:39 < mcclapyourhands> I'm asking for help with using SAMBA without changing the permissions of folder! I want samba to share the folder to the network without my requiring to change the perms! windows file servers don't have to both with CHMOD
07:39 < edisonbulb> I have to admit after using UNIX-like systems for years and years I might be quite a bit desensitized from just how difficult it can be to learn
07:40 < mcclapyourhands> bother*
07:40 < syb0rg> sauvin, the GIMP is pretty powerful, but I think it's pretty much agreed by consensus that photoshop is far superior
07:40 < jml2> edisonbulb, you are a noob we can tell
07:40 < edisonbulb> jml2: tell me
07:40 < edisonbulb> jml2: what makes you say that
07:40 < Prof_Birch> When do you stop being a Linux noob
07:40 < jml2> edisonbulb, nothing to be ashamed of, as long as you admit you are one especially when we can tell
07:40 < sauvin> syb0rg, I can't argue against that. I'm just saying that GIMP beats everything else I've actually tried.
07:40 < Mistell> jml2: !!!
07:40 < syb0rg> fair sauvin, I consider it a must have piece of software
07:40 < kremator> guys, do any of you knows abotu a graphical irc client that does have 2 chat windows, i mean, that i could read up 2 channels at once side-by-side?
07:40 < edisonbulb> jml2: i have been using Linux as a daily driver for a long time now
07:40 < Mistell> GIMP might have the mathematical tech but my god it's counter-intuitive
07:41 < sauvin> syb0rg, have you seen or tried the newest gimp, though? 2.10? It's rocking my boat.
07:41 < Mistell> the UX sucks
07:41 < mcclapyourhands> i guess I'm screwed
07:41 < Mistell> mcclapyourhands: p much
07:41 < mcclapyourhands> bye guys
07:41 < Mistell> mcclapyourhands: cya
07:41 < edisonbulb> i was doing Arch installs like 8 years ago
07:41 < edisonbulb> why am i suddenly a n00b
07:41 < jml2> mcclapyourhands, dont drop the bar of soap (remember)
07:41 < jml2> o/
07:41 < introom> hi
07:41 < syb0rg> sauvin, I am on 2.8
07:41 < introom> i am using urxvt, can i bind ctrl-alt-v to ctrl-v ?
07:42 < KernelBloomer> kde is so insane. tried 1 week with it after suggestions and disliked it
07:42 < introom> i want to paste without press teh alt key.
07:42 < syb0rg> I will probably get 2.10 when I upgrade to ubuntu 18.04
07:42 < jml2> edisonbulb, you're still whinning in your crib about me talking bad about minecraft servers
07:42 < jml2> edisonbulb, that tells me you are a noob
07:42 < jml2> lol
07:42 < edisonbulb> WTF]
07:42 < edisonbulb> i could care less what you think about minecraft
07:42 < sauvin> syb0rg, what distro?
07:42 < jml2> yeah that's right.. you quoted me
07:42 < Mistell> edisonbulb: yeah I'd agree w/ jml2 here
07:42 < syb0rg> sauvin, I am on xubuntu 16.04 on this machine
07:43 < sauvin> syb0rg, try the flatpak.
07:43 < Mistell> I bet you love your thinkpad, too
07:43 < edisonbulb> i quoted you to show that my "ssh into the server" idea was on-topic
07:43 < jml2> and it was a dumb tool (if you've been following) , mcclapyourhands regretted he purchased the tool as well
07:43 < pnbeast> introom, you know you can just highlight text in one window and center-click in another to paste the highlighted text, under most circumstances?
07:43 < jml2> (if you've been reading)
07:43 < syb0rg> sauvin, I might give that a shot if it weren't for the fact that I am do for an upgrade to 18.04 anyway
07:43 < syb0rg> if it still has old GIMP I might do so
07:43 < syb0rg> *due
07:44 < edisonbulb> mmm thinkpads are nice
07:44 < syb0rg> edisonbulb, my p51s experienced two motherboard failures in about 7 months
07:45 < syb0rg> so I have my reservations regarding thinkpads now, at least their latest offerings.
07:45 < Mistell> Thinkpad users: http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/085/385/d33.png
07:46 < Mistell> Just get a mac already
07:46 < syb0rg> lol.
07:46 < introom> pnbeast: i am using mackbook with touchpad, no middle click.
07:46 < edisonbulb> eww
07:47 < sauvin> One of the things that's pleasing me to no end is finally having a caged warp that works!
07:47 < syb0rg> I have no clue what caged warp is
07:47 < edisonbulb> apple doesn't even care enough to update the efi on their macs
07:47 < sauvin> It's the thing that hangs on Ubuntu under 2.8.
07:47 < edisonbulb> they just keep it running that ancient shit
07:47 < pnbeast> introom, sorry about your b0rken hardware!
07:48 < syb0rg> sauvin, it sounds like a scifi interstellar travel engine
07:49 < syb0rg> hmm, googling it that actually looks like an interesting tool
07:50 < edisonbulb> now I will admit that i'm a complete n00b when it comes to compiling kernels and building systems from scratch
07:50 < edisonbulb> 100% n00b
07:55 < jml2> edisonbulb, you're a noob in everything linux, stop lying
07:55 < edisonbulb> jml2: it's quite obvious you are trying to provoke me
07:55 < jml2> (you give a lot of bad advice too)
07:55 < jml2> no it's true
07:56 < jml2> not trying to provoke
07:56 < Mistell> edisonbulb: you're just too easy to mess with
07:56 < edisonbulb> Mistell: sadly it is a permenant fixture of my personality
07:57 < jml2> they throw a bunch of profanity for "simple" things, and think it is "advanced"
07:57 < Mistell> gotta learn to be more flexible
07:57 < jml2> (see your irc log)
07:57  * jml2 hides :)
07:57 < Mistell> jml2 on the prowl dang
07:57 < edisonbulb> that's just how i talk
07:57 < edisonbulb> when given anonymity
07:58 < edisonbulb> i talk like that to myself
07:58 < Mistell> but in person....
07:58 < edisonbulb> when nobody is around
07:59 < jml2> "<edisonbulb> just in case anyone reads the channel logs and is looking for an answer to my question: export INSTALL_MOD_PATH=/mnt is the solution
07:59 < jml2> <edisonbulb> run it before running make modules_install"
07:59 < jml2> ^^ says he's noob when it comes to kernel compiling, yet thinks he can give advice.
08:00 < edisonbulb> umm...
08:00 < jml2> that's why he's a double noob.
08:00 < edisonbulb> that was the solution to the problem
08:00 < Mistell> I do see edisonbulb has been up in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AExistentialism so there could be some sadness going on there
08:00 < edisonbulb> it worked
08:00 < edisonbulb> WTF
08:00 < Mistell> HACKED
08:00 < edisonbulb> stop grepping the channel logs
08:00 < edisonbulb> that's creepy
08:00 < Mistell> NEVER
08:00 < Mistell> Don't worry, I too freak out about existance.
08:00 < jml2> shame I say
08:00 < Mistell> existence* argh
08:00 < jml2> *shame*
08:01  * Mistell shame
08:01 < edisonbulb> now i understand why people like VPNs
08:01 < Mistell> Man it ain't like I'm going hard, that's the end of that search
08:02 < Mistell> I'm not that much of a kiddo to sit here and sift through the net for hours
08:03 < edisonbulb> the 'net remembers things that I don't
08:03 < introom> pnbeast: found a solution for my b0rken hardware. https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=12
08:03 < jml2> edisonbulb, you said that not so long ago today
08:03 < edisonbulb> I don't remember editing the talk page for Existentialism
08:03 < edisonbulb> but apparantly... i did
08:03 < irwiss> i know what you did last summer edisonbulb
08:03 < Mistell> lol
08:04 < jml2> so much for being an "arch" user
08:04 < jml2> :)
08:04 < edisonbulb> Word Styling  The beginning of this entry reads more like an essay or an article than part of an encyclopedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.170.58.131 (talk) 08:28, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
08:04 < edisonbulb> OMG I remember this now
08:04  * Mistell ooo
08:04 < edisonbulb> That article needs work I'm telling you
08:04 < Mistell> Well I appreciate your contribution
08:05 < Mistell> Someone's gotta keep it in order
08:06 < edisonbulb> I think i edited something related to the US senate or something like that too
08:06 < edisonbulb> i'm searching for my IP address
08:06 < edisonbulb> this might be fun
08:07 < Mistell> Contrary to your mc hate, snowymountains @ https://www.planetminecraft.com/forums/minecraft/servers/semi-anarchy-vanilla-server-564571/
08:07 < Mistell> Right around the same time as that wiki edit, too
08:07 < Mistell> Why so much hate on MC then ??
08:07 < Mistell> Wait a minute oh my god are you actually just mccwhatever
08:07 < edisonbulb> so from my IP address you can glean: my minecraft IGN, that I have an interest in existentialism, i visit #osdev on Freenode, and I say a bunch of stupid crap on IRC
08:08 < Mistell> WOAH woah I never said anything about osdev
08:08 < Mistell> jesus christ you visit osdev?
08:08 < edisonbulb> wait... you don't?
08:08 < Mistell> that's just...  terrible
08:08 < Mistell> (joking)
08:08 < jml2> Mistell, he also says he's been using arch linux for 8 years, even that I don't believe
08:09 < edisonbulb> woah now, i did an arch linux install 8 years ago
08:09 < jml2> Mistell, pretty sure edisonbulb is a twelve year old trying to hack-sprint his way on irc things XD
08:09 < edisonbulb> gotta be pedantic parsing my language
08:09 < Mistell> that's not too hard to believe
08:09 < Mistell> I actually was feeling a late 20s, early 30s here, but that MC post brings it down a bit
08:09 < edisonbulb> I am 19 years old
08:09 < Mistell> damn you fooled me
08:10  * jml2 counts his stools
08:10 < edisonbulb> Now stop being creepy or I'm gonna have to buy a VPN or some shit just to visit IRC channels and goof off
08:10 < Mistell> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BNC_(software) edisonbulb
08:11 < Mistell> free, common way to mask your irc activity
08:11 < Mistell> no need to pay for a vpn just for that
08:11 < jml2> usually arch users are quiet on resolving their issues with the arch wiki..   let me get back to counting my stools please
08:11 < Mistell> also it's not like you're doing anything shameful lol
08:12 < edisonbulb> i. haven't. used. arch. in. eight. years.
08:12 < Mistell> I too play games and read wikis
08:12 < Mistell> edisonbulb: you should revisit it, it's great
08:13 < edisonbulb> Yea I'm not doing anything weird but I don't like the idea that some random communication I threw out at 2am one morning 30 years ago will probably still be on the internet when I'm 40
08:13 < Mistell> Now you see why everyone on the net hates Zucc
08:14 < Mistell> + complains every single time google releases anything
08:14 < Mistell> everything you do can be duh up
08:14 < Two_Dogs> edisonbulb: you better airgap the machine and do the chickenwire cage over it then
08:14 < Mistell> dug
08:14 < Mistell> Two_Dogs knows what's up!
08:14 < Two_Dogs> :)
08:15 < Mistell> alright it's been real - time to watch eastern asian children's cartoons till I'm out of beer.
08:15 < edisonbulb> bye :)
08:15 < Mistell> shoutout to detective jml2 and our MC edisonbulb
08:15 < Mistell> cya
08:16 < oiaohm> Two_Dogs: more cool is the RF blocking glass coating
08:16 < edisonbulb> honestly i can't even think of what i would use a computer without internet for
08:16 < edisonbulb> writing essays
08:17 < edisonbulb> umm... playing wesnoth
08:17 < edisonbulb> play CDs
08:17 < edisonbulb> control a pi zero with a serial port
08:18 < Two_Dogs> oiaohm: some of us cant afford the cool tools and chicken wire is always avail at the Hay and Mercantile
08:22 < pnbeast> My business offers 2 guage, gold plated chicken wire, snow-annealed for minimal Ohmic distortion and maximal radiative blocking.  We call it Monster Chicken Wire.  It's available in your finer audio shops, nationwide.
08:22 < edisonbulb> omg more software that fails during build on a point release
08:23 < Two_Dogs> pnbeast: you got the cheap galvnized model sir?
08:23 < edisonbulb> does anyone check this stuff
08:23 < Two_Dogs> pnbeast: we need hats too
08:23 < pnbeast> We do offer more affordable, galvanized versions, too.  They don't come in the velour wrapping, though - just plain plastic.
08:25 < genewitch> is snort 100% free? did they go through a phase 6 years ago where they weren't completely free?
08:25 < Two_Dogs> plastic sounds swell, it will make an excellent addon to the cats entertainment system
08:25 < edisonbulb> pnbeast: this sounds like something a salesman would say trying to get an audiophile to buy a new power cable
08:26 < genewitch> "audiophile"
08:26 < edisonbulb> These 100% authentic salt crystals will make your stereo sound amazing
08:26 < edisonbulb> it's QUANTUM!
08:28 < jml2> gn o/
08:28 < eqw> Hello. I suspect systemd in my system runs upstart jobs. How to check this?
08:28 < Two_Dogs> hey, i bought one of them salt crystal things, with glow light even
08:29 < Two_Dogs> eqw: is upstart process running?
08:29 < Two_Dogs> eqw: or you saw upstart in some message from enabling some service?
08:30 < Two_Dogs> ubuntu has some hack thing with upstart and systemd
08:31 < eqw> Two_Dogs: I just don't have another explanation how some thing were ran. I see upstart configs for them but not systemd's
08:32 < Two_Dogs> eqw: is upstart process running?
08:32 < Two_Dogs> eqw: what service?
08:32 < eqw> mountall
08:33 < Two_Dogs> eqw: try> systemctl status mountall*
08:34 < eqw> what means 'Loaded: masked (/dev/null; bad)' ?
08:35 < Two_Dogs> eqw: means its been forced to not run
08:35 < Two_Dogs> thats what i would do, mask it
08:36 < Two_Dogs> eqw: and not bad, you can unmask it
08:37 < eqw> i don't need to unmask it, i want to understand why its jobs were run
08:39 < rlf1> i accidently remove my user from groups. i added them via replacing init from systemd to shell on boot
08:39 < rlf1> but after boot when i login with my user account i can't see groups when type groups
08:40 < rlf1> but if i type "su - username" and enter password
08:40 < rlf1> i can see those groups when i type groups
08:40 < rlf1> how can they different
08:40 < rlf1> and how can i solve this problem
08:41 < Two_Dogs> eqw: journalctl -b | grep mountall
08:43 < eqw> Two_Dogs: empty output. So I'm wrong and its jobs were not run?
08:44 < Two_Dogs> eqw: hard to tell, the grep could be borked, try mount instead
08:44 < Two_Dogs> eqw: you saying you did not chose to mount some partition being mounted?
08:45 < eqw> Two_Dogs: it's not partition, i'm wondering about /dev
08:47 < Two_Dogs> eqw: ok, grep /dev
08:48 < Two_Dogs> thats gonna be oodles of hits
08:49 < eqw> systemd[1]: Starting Create Static Device Nodes in /dev...
09:04 < horseface> does anybody still use privoxy?
09:04 < horseface> wtf is going on
09:04 < horseface> is this software dead?
09:05 < horseface> i get this message when i point my browser at localhost:8118
09:05 < horseface> Invalid header received from client.
09:05 < horseface> ive searched the internet around and found nothing...
09:05 < horseface> can somebody help me with wtf is going on
09:05 < horseface> ?
09:08 < quackslikeaduck> horseface: what header do you receive and what were you expecting?
09:16 < horseface> quackslikeaduck i expect the privoxy page to come uo
09:16 < horseface> ip*
09:16 < horseface> up*
09:16 < horseface> it works when i type http://p.p
09:16 < horseface> but not localhost:8118
09:18 < iflema> on :80?
09:20 < genewitch> yeah unless there's a redirect 8118 isn't specified in p.p
09:23 < quackslikeaduck> privoxy + .. something like polipo ? gewgle it
09:24 < sauvin> That would be "google", not "gewgle".
09:24 < pantato> hi i'm 12 years old is it too late for me to become a professional programmer when i grow up if i start now?
09:25 < quackslikeaduck> hm, thought he seemed bright enough to figure, but.. i guess never know, and apprecciate ur correction - on his behalf.  ;)
09:25 < sauvin> That would be "your", not "ur".
09:25 < quackslikeaduck> hhhhhh
09:25 < horseface> hmm i see
09:25 < horseface> so why doesnt localhost:8118 bring me to the same page?
09:25 < horseface> i don't get it
09:25 < horseface> usually it should
09:26 < horseface> privoxy is configured at 8118
09:26 < horseface> i have my environment varibles set as http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:8118
09:26 < pantato> horseface: tried a different browser?
09:26 < quackslikeaduck> sure its a http prx ?
09:27 < horseface> yeah
09:27 < horseface> definately
09:27 < horseface> ill try a diffferent browser
09:27 < horseface> what is there other than firefox and opeera?
09:27 < horseface> firefox doesn't work on my system'
09:28 < horseface> does anybody still use privoxy?
09:28 < sauvin> horseface, what's your distro?
09:28 < horseface> arch
09:28 < sauvin> Guh. I'll bet you have zillions of options. Is chromium-browser an option?
09:28 < Sitri> Chromium, Vivaldi, uzbl, Seamonkey, Konquerer
09:28 < pantato> i use google chrome :D
09:29 < horseface> i hate google
09:29 < horseface> ill try one
09:29 < pantato> horseface: are you familiar with a torrent client called deluge?
09:29 < horseface> nah
09:29 < horseface> ...
09:29 < horseface> why?
09:30 < pantato> horseface: do you know what a "clone" is?
09:30 < pantato> chromium is a clone of google chrome
09:30 < pantato> so, chrome, without the google
09:31 < horseface> oh i see
09:31 < horseface> i will try it with epiphany anyway
09:32 < candidat> im 69 years old do you think i can be a programmer when im grown up ?
09:35 < horseface> epiphany does the same
09:35 < horseface> invalid header
09:35  * sauvin plans on doing all his "growing up" in his coffin
09:35 < horseface> when i goto localhost:8118
09:35 < horseface> but p.p works
09:45 < horseface> somebody needs to upgrade privoxy
09:49 < pnbeast> horseface, yeah, somebody!  Um, who, exactly?
09:49  * djvb snoozes.
09:50 < horseface> you
09:50  * horseface wakes up djvb
09:50 < horseface> you too upgrade privoxy
09:50 < pnbeast> horseface, I accept your terms and will begin as soon as your payment reaches me.
09:52  * djvb shakes off horseface and slips into a nice coma.
09:57 < TheWild> hello
09:57 < pnbeast> horseface, I have not received your payment, yet.  I'm sorry, but I am forced to leave negative feedback on you.  "-1, did not pay on time"...
09:58 < TheWild> how to disable mouse (not the device) in a way that cursor is not displayed and mouse events are no longer processed by X?
09:58 < TheWild> and then how to enable it again?
09:58 < horseface> oh no
09:59 < stevendale> Morning
10:00 < Aph3x-WL> chromium is not a clone of google chrome :/
10:00 < quackslikeaduck> smells googlish neway.. best be wary
10:01 < Aph3x-WL> it is google
10:01 < Aph3x-WL> even has google bits in it
10:01 < quackslikeaduck> google is the devil !
10:01 < stevendale> pantato Chrome was based on chromium
10:01 < stevendale> Without Chromium there would be no Chrome
10:02 < rumpel> is based
10:02 < stevendale> Morning rumpel
10:02 < rumpel> hi
10:03 < quackslikeaduck> Yes. Hello.
10:03 < horseface> i agree
10:03 < horseface> it does smell googlish
10:03 < horseface> ew
10:04 < horseface> i use opera
10:04 < stevendale> I use Dillo
10:04 < horseface> ive loved it since the CEO attempted to swim from the UK to USA
10:04 < TheWild> did "sudo modprobe -rv psmouse"; mouse stops working but the cursor is still there! Grrr...
10:05 < Aph3x-WL> you don't like google but you're ok with using a browser that was sold to a company worse than google lol
10:09  * first-order is running Quantum and is happy with it right now.
10:11 < stevendale> emacs is the best browser
10:14 < TheWild> nvm. My i3 was fooled because I moved the mouse to the bottom-right corner, where the status bar was appearing when I hold window key, thus triggering the focus change.
10:14 < TheWild> unclutter program actually does good job
10:21  * JimBuntu has Opera swag such as flash drives and footballs.
10:27 < greenit> hi, i have a new notebook with a 256GB SSD. I'd like to use btrfs, but i don't know if there are any advantages over using ext4... which fs would you recommend?
10:32 < _KaszpiR_> greenit don't use btrfs, use ext4
10:34 < Markow> Use ZFS on Linux ;)
10:35 < quackslikeaduck> joirnaling..? wont forensic teams easily recover all his stuffz, tleast potentially bad meta data .... better stick to... ext2 is it? (without the ..juornaling and stuff i mean (without knowing for sure what its all about tbh..))
10:35 < Aph3x-WL> use xfs
10:36 < GNU\colossus> greenit, if you're not certain which FS you should pick, ext4 is going to be the least wrong choice :)
10:36 < quackslikeaduck> ...depends what for i guess...!  ... but y, would rather zfs .. but go bsd, geli fde ? (less common = less likely targeted .. may b a good thing (mayb!....))
10:36 < paulcarroty> use NTFS
10:37 < quackslikeaduck> yes, NTFS. for confusion , and ..funz!  .. just some compatibility addon and ya good to go. be awesome dude
10:37 < imofftopic> fat32
10:37 < imofftopic> :P
10:37 < sauvin> paulcarroty, that's not even remotely funny. quackslikeaduck, use standard English. What is "geli fde"?
10:38 < quackslikeaduck> geli is a block device-layer disk encryption system written for FreeBSD, introduced in version 6.0. It uses the GEOM disk framework
10:38 < paulcarroty> be serious, ext4 is de-facto standard
10:38 < Aph3x-WL> you can't say serious and de-facto in the same sentence
10:38 < paulcarroty> btrfs is great when you need snapshot, rollbacks, etc
10:38 < paulcarroty> zfs has no sense for small storage
10:39 < Aph3x-WL> btrfs is great if you don't care about your data
10:39 < sauvin> I have yet to see any announcement that btrfs is safe for production use.
10:39 < quackslikeaduck> small storage...  u guys stream all ur music and porn or what.    i fear dem ransomwarez nab my .flacs bro  =|
10:39 < paulcarroty> Aph3x-WL, 10 years old joke
10:39 < Aph3x-WL> joke?
10:39 < sauvin> quackslikeaduck, "you", not "u". Use standard English. I won't say it again.
10:40 < quackslikeaduck> My apologies
10:40 < paulcarroty> suse enterprise use btrfs by default
10:40  * mouses generally does not worry about forensic teams recovering their data - I think that worry may indicate more serious issues.
10:40 < paulcarroty> last 5 years maybe
10:40 < trae32566[w]> paulcarroty: and RHEL 8 is already confirmed dropping BTRFS entirely, so...
10:41 < paulcarroty> trae32566[w], I don't care about RHEL
10:41 < trae32566[w]> well, it has a heck of a lot more market share than suse
10:41 < trae32566[w]> that's for sure xD
10:41 < imofftopic> Novell Netware
10:41 < trae32566[w]> if RH is doing it, I would say you can expect at least a few to follow suit
10:42 < trae32566[w]> though their decision was also based on available talent for maintaining it
10:42 < paulcarroty> RH use xfs
10:42 < Dr_Coke> trae32566[w] is debian dropping btrfs
10:42 < paulcarroty> this is their choice, nothing special
10:42 < trae32566[w]> yeah, but for them to remove support for it _entirely_ is kind of a big deal.
10:43 < paulcarroty> trae32566[w], are you masturbate on RH?
10:43 < Dr_Coke> trae32566[w] btrfs sounds like it's dead in the water
10:43 < trae32566[w]> nah, it's still plenty active
10:43 < Dr_Coke> paulcarroty speaking of masturbating
10:44 < trae32566[w]> from what I understand though, it's not getting where they want, and they don't have the people to continue backporting crap indefinitely
10:44 < trae32566[w]> paulcarroty: yes. I also can Engrish.
10:49 < stevendale> Spank me daddy
10:49 < paulcarroty> trae32566[w], you probably still use Linux in Windoze way like "Ah, M$ use x for y, I should do the same immediately!". It's just mark you as stupid automatically.
10:50 < hexnewbie> Everyone knows you should use Linux in the macOS way
10:50 < hratt> I had to use Windows yesterday ik scared
10:51  * stevendale looks at his Windows XP, sighs shaking his head and keeps playing games while connected to the internet with no AV
10:51 < hratt> haha
10:51 < quackslikeaduck> thats a good time to use ur neighbors wifi,
10:51 < hratt> there never isnt one
10:51 < stevendale> I connected to my local pub's Wi-Fi
10:52 < stevendale> They were limiting each device connected to 100 KB/s
10:52 < stevendale> so i just connected multiple
10:52 < stevendale> XD
10:52 < hratt> ded
10:52 < quackslikeaduck> lol..!  ...limiting how,  mac..?
10:52 < quackslikeaduck> virtual interfaces u meant..? ..or ..
10:53 < mouses> quackslikeaduck: many routers can set max speeds per connection
10:53 < trae32566[w]> usually they do that per device at the AP though
10:53 < hexnewbie> I still have my XP - or the remains of it. I think I never booted into it ince it started crashing twice a day after I upgraded it to XP from 2000. So I have somehow rsync'ed it to one of the ZFS volumes (part of it, at least).
10:53 < quackslikeaduck> per connection.. that the kind that makes download-managers (like Flashget) useful; multithreaded downloads simply .. ?
10:53 < trae32566[w]> if you do it at the router, you play with traffic control, which is usually very processor intensive
10:53 < stevendale> You should never upgrade Windows
10:54 < stevendale> Always split the partitions and clean install
10:54 < stevendale> Same for Linux, except wipe / and keep a seperate /home
10:54 < quackslikeaduck> sticking to millenium edition myself. believe it or not feel quite safe even; y'know.. who's gonna target.. or even believe when tryin profiling my box, that I have windows ME... nah, no exploits gon be prepped to 0wn my box.  good 'ol Win ME
10:55 < stevendale> Even then it's still better to backup stuff in your Documents and Pictures folders, etc and wipe /home too
10:55 < stevendale> Since default configs may change
10:55 < imofftopic> haha
10:55 < imofftopic> Windows ME
10:55 < mouses> ol
10:55 < mouses> lol*
10:55 < imofftopic> Blue Screen of Delight
10:55 < helokki> 33221
10:55 < hexnewbie> stevendale: Upgrade works surprisingly well in Debian, and it used to work even better in Windows. It so happens that Windows XP was simply crashing on my computer even after a clean install, whereas Slackware wasn't
10:55 < stevendale> My oven is done heating to 220 C
10:55 < helokki> whoops
10:56 < quackslikeaduck> the new pro.   still little known, ofc., that's part of what makes it as good ^_-
10:56 < stevendale> That took like
10:56 < stevendale> 2 minutes
10:56 < stevendale> Jesus, I love induction
10:56 < stevendale> Actually Jesus won't help me
10:56 < stevendale> Linus Torvolds will :D
10:56 < hexnewbie> I have 12 cores at 40°C, does it mean I'm running at 480°C? ;p
10:56 < imofftopic> Actually neither will he :D
10:57 < imofftopic> hexnewbie: Hmmm Yes. My house is 20C in the Kitchen. 20C in the Lounge. 20C in the Laundry. 20C in my bedroom..... My house is 80C inside.
10:57 < LissajousPattern> stevendale, what does linus have to do with induction heating?
10:58 < hexnewbie> imofftopic: If you split every room into two with a fake wall, your house will become twice as hot!
10:58 < Aph3x-WL> linus has a temper that heats up quick?
10:58 < imofftopic> hexnewbie: Yes!! Thats exactly how it works!
10:58 < LissajousPattern> so he does
10:58 < hexnewbie> You don't need good heating, just partitions. I knew Parted could do magic.
10:59 < quackslikeaduck> emotionally unstable u say.. hmm
10:59 < stevendale> "Hey Linus, come over here, I need you to cook an egg for me"
10:59 < LissajousPattern> what you need is thermal mass
11:00 < ||JD||> hehe yesterday was reading in the kernel mailing list about a shitty patch someone sent, Linus said: "delete this crap from the whole internet"
11:02 < LissajousPattern> Linus could probably benefit from smoking a fat blunt or maybe even two.
11:05 < plain-user> LS listing question. how can i get the ls command to show time, size list of dir contents but have them in the -1 format
11:05 < plain-user> ?
11:06 < plain-user> is that possible at all?
11:06 < imofftopic> Any one watch the latest Google Demo?
11:06 < imofftopic> Features and product launch?
11:06 < hexnewbie> plain-user: The question doesn't even make sense, as the only difference between -l and -1 for me, is that the first shoes time and size
11:08 < plain-user> i need to have ls -logh but also not have the permissions
11:08 < plain-user> adding switches to the -1 does not work
11:08 < plain-user> how can i remove the perm-s info out of the listing please?
11:08 < hexnewbie> plain-user: Why do you want to remove the permissions? What do you want to do?
11:09 < plain-user> hexnewbie: i want to have a neat output for pastes.
11:09 < sauvin> While it's BAD MOJO to parse ls output, lots of people would probably use something like sed or awk for that.
11:09 < sauvin> Or even cut.
11:09 < hexnewbie> plain-user: Use Ctrl+Alt to block-select the part of ls you want to paste
11:10 < hexnewbie> plain-user: Works in Konsole and GNOME Terminal at least
11:10 < plain-user> sauvin: i want to set an alias to that and use it to show some work and then paste it all. extra perm-s just look messy that's all
11:11 < plain-user> its not a 1 time ever thing, i know how to delete text, was just wondering how to select the output of listing better.
11:13 < hexnewbie> function lspaste() { ls -logh --color=always "$@" | sed -E 's:^[cbdlsp-][0-9rwxSst-]{9}\s::' ; };
11:13 < hexnewbie> The output is not more presentable for pastes, only worse, though
11:14 < hexnewbie> And I forgot to deal with ACLs, I guess ;)
11:15 < plain-user> hexnewbie: interesting line, thanks! looks nearly like what i wanted but still has an odd column of numbers to the left of output
11:15 < plain-user> whatever, i will live with it i guess~
11:16 < plain-user> not a big deal for this particular exercise, but i can see how this could become important ...
11:17 < hexnewbie> plain-user: function lspaste() { ls -logh --color=always "$@" | sed -E 's:^\S+\s+[0-9]+\s::' ; };
11:18 < hexnewbie> plain-user: That gets rid of the link counts, doesn't make assumptions about permission format, and still includes the total at the top
11:18 < sauvin> Use awk and print formatted output with printf. :)
11:44 < MrElendig> no reason to parse ls really
11:44 < hexnewbie> find output is perfectly human readable
11:45 < MrElendig> and printf makes is configurable
11:45 < hexnewbie> and column -t wouldn't misinterpret spaces in filenames as columns ;)
11:46 < hexnewbie> “ls -logh --color=always "$@" | sed -E 's:^\S+\s+[0-9]+\s::'” is literally *impossible* to replicate with find
11:47 < greenit> if i have a single 256gb ssd and want to use btrfs, should i use the dup option??
11:49 < MrElendig> greenit: generally a waste of space, set up some proper backups instead
11:49 < MrElendig> greenit: asuming you mean DUP for the data
11:51 < Zexaron> Hello
11:52 < Zexaron> is there some kind of stress test programs that would test GPU and CPU, but more like a max power test, not exactly CPU/GPU performance, just some load that maxes out the power the computer take
11:52 < hexnewbie> greenit: Given the history of unreliability btrfs has had, better backup to a type different filesystem than relying on either its redundancy (RAID) or data duplication (dup) for your data safety.
11:52 < Zexaron> I need to do this in linux live because the electricity could get cut if the breakers are too weak, this is part of the upgrade and stuff has to be measured first
11:53 < Zexaron> the electrician will do measuring and I need to turn on all the appliances in the house, computers have to be under load for this test to be more accurate
11:53 < greenit> MrElendig, hexnewbie okay, thanks for the info and tips :)
11:53 < hexnewbie> greenit: Word is, Btrfs reliability has improved significantly in recent years (not confirmed myself), but relying on any filesystem as a single point of failure is bad, so: 1) copy the data, 2) to a remote location, 3) in a different filesystem (even type, if it makes sense)
11:54 < hexnewbie> And if it is not a remote location, at least a different disk in a different room (won't protect it from house fire or major power surge, but oh well)
11:54 < greenit> yeah, i'm thinking of getting a nas for backups and extended storag
11:54 < greenit> e
11:54 < MrElendig> dup only protects against some block level corruption
11:54 < MrElendig> won't save you when the ssd dies
11:54 < MrElendig> or someone steals it
11:55 < greenit> but it saves me from backing up corrupted data ;)
11:55 < hexnewbie> greenit: Er, how so?
11:55 < greenit> if a bit dies the checksum is different and it auto-heals from the non-defect duplication
11:56 < hexnewbie> greenit: Yeah, and you got backups, so if a checksum is different, you can restore from the proper backup
11:56 < sammyg> is there a linux file system that can store sha1 values?
11:56 < MrElendig> sammyg: define "store sha1 values"
11:56 < MrElendig> sammyg: if you mean data checksumming, btrfs does that
11:56 < maccampus> Zexaron, look at your computer power supply, iT Will say how many watts, for Example 450 watts
11:56 < greenit> hexnewbie, ok, that's true
11:56 < maccampus> Watts = volts X ampères
11:57 < maccampus> So ampères are watts / volts
11:57 < maccampus> Now you know how many ampères your circuit braker needs to be minimaal
11:58 < MrElendig> maccampus: it is not that easy
11:58 < MrElendig> that only works for purely resistive loads
11:58 < sammyg> MrElendig, i mean like storing the sha1 digest/checksum like a04k8fn8grjri489jlak whatever so that i can do a file search by this string and locate the file that way in a file system? can btrfs do that?
11:59 < MrElendig> sammyg: you want a indexing service
11:59 < MrElendig> independently of the fs
11:59 < sammyg> if you say so, i have no idea
12:00 < hexnewbie> W is dimensionally equal to AV, but W and AV are used to measure different variables (real power vs. apparent power; maximum permissible current vs. power capacity in UPSes)
12:00 < Zexaron> maccampus: yeah but electricians will just stick forks at the central point, I don't think they'll be bothered with the math - we have a whole house of a hundred appliances to test, might not be worthwhile doing math on each one
12:00 < MrElendig> maccampus: turns out that compute power supplies tend to have huge inrush currents, also they are not resistive loads, you you got to take reactance into the account
12:00 < MrElendig> inrush current is the real "killer"
12:00 < hexnewbie> And I get a headache every time our electric guy tries to explain those to me
12:01 < MrElendig> you can easily put 10 computers on a 16A circuit, but good luck trying to start them all at once
12:01 < hexnewbie> I just remember not to substitute W values with AV values, except in cases of extreme approximations.
12:02 < sammyg> MrElendig, so if i want to do this type of reverse lookup or whatever we call this, i need a file indexing service? it is not implemented in the file system itself?
12:02 < MrElendig> (230V obviously, not whuzzy 110)
12:03 < MrElendig> hexnewbie: gets easier if you view it as a triangle
12:18 < OnkelTem> Hi folks
12:18 < OnkelTem> I'm trying to connect Canon EOS 50D camera to the computer. I do everything according to official instructions but it doesn't seem that the camera is mounted. This is the output in the syslog:
12:18 < OnkelTem> http://paste.debian.net/1024349/
12:18 < OnkelTem> Do you have any ideas why does this happen? Is it because of the cable/port?
12:21 < hexnewbie> OnkelTem: Seems like you have USB issues. Connect to a different USB port. Try USB 2 (black) if you're connecting to USB 3 port (red/blue), or make sure your cables are OK.
12:21 < hexnewbie> OnkelTem: You may check what error -32 is, although I guess that's not a device error, so it won't help.
12:22 < hexnewbie> OnkelTem: By the way, it's easier to get a card reader and just plug the card into the PC. It's both more convenient, *and* it is less likely you'd have USB compatibility issues with both the camera and the card
12:23 < hexnewbie> Oh, and try avoiding any USB hubs in the way
12:23 < OnkelTem> hexnewbie: it was a black USB, when I connect to a blue one I get simialr output in the logs
12:23 < OnkelTem> usb 7-1: new full-speed USB device number 6 using xhci_hcd
12:23 < OnkelTem> usb 7-1: device descriptor read/64, error -71
12:23 < MrElendig> does the 50d even do mass storage?
12:23 < OnkelTem> So now the error is -71 :)
12:24 < MrElendig> anyway, error 71 usually means bad hardware / emi / similar
12:24 < hexnewbie> It's a full speed device, which doesn't sound reassuring for mass storage
12:24 < OnkelTem> Ok, will try other ports at the back of the PC
12:24 < MrElendig> sidenote: a good card reader > plugging the camera in over usb
12:24 < MrElendig> unless you want to do remote control
12:25 < hexnewbie> The camera's from 2008? A card reader with CF slot is better than direct connection.
12:25 < MrElendig> canon usually only supports mtp, in which case you don't really mount it either
12:25 < MrElendig> probably sd card
12:26 < hexnewbie> And if it is from 2008, USB 3 ports may be a no-go. EOS models from the early 00s time used CF cards, all of them if I'm not mistaken. SD is a new thing for those? (At least that was the case for Nikon, never payed attention to Canon)
12:26 < MrElendig> hmm, it does use cf, which is strang efor 2008
12:26 < MrElendig> but then again it is a cannon
12:28 < OnkelTem> Got it! I've been plugging it to every USB port on the back panel and it was claiming -32 UNTIL I unplugged my USB hab with mouse and kbd from one of the black ports and connected the camera there - and it worked
12:28 < OnkelTem> hub*
12:29 < MrElendig> hubs causing issues is quite normal
12:29 < trae32566[w]> ^
12:29 < OnkelTem> issues on other ports? hm
12:29 < MrElendig> and you have to remember that even though you have 8 ports, you might just have 2 busses
12:29 < trae32566[w]> they're really terrible. I have no idea why, but I can definitely confirm that.
12:29 < hexnewbie> Kind of like my Canon scanner from around the same era: Only works in one USB 3 port (bizarre, not on the USB 2 ports) I have connected with a USB 2 extender (not that it matters, it's a USB 2 scanner with a USB 2 cable).
12:29 < MrElendig> trae32566[w]: because people insist of buying the cheapest ones
12:29 < MrElendig> trae32566[w]: and usually non-powered
12:30 < trae32566[w]> sometimes it's the device though
12:30 < OnkelTem> Honeslty my hub has external power supply but... I never use it :) Perhaps it's a good idea to start using it
12:30 < trae32566[w]> Samsung for example was *extremely* picky about what USB port you used with ODIN
12:30 < trae32566[w]> basically had to be connected to the motherboard, and usb 1.1 / 2.0 IIRC
12:30 < oiaohm> hexnewbie: that makes sense for a scanner.   When in a usb 2 port high speed usb 3 data links are not connected.
12:31 < trae32566[w]> (Samsung phones, that is)
12:31 < OnkelTem> I noticed that I have one WHITE port on the back panel. Is it somehow different from the black ones?
12:31 < hexnewbie> Oh, spammers are so cheap. I was selected €950,000.00 - can't even spare fake €50K to make it a million?
12:31 < MrElendig> note: some cheap powered usb hubs will make the ground live at mains voltage
12:31 < MrElendig> great fun
12:32 < MrElendig> either by design or production fault
12:32 < MrElendig> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh6iKilgtG0
12:34 < oiaohm> hexnewbie: also  USB 3.0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_3.0   if you look for super support is a high default ampage on the 5 volt pins.   So old stuff works on longer cables.
12:36 < OnkelTem> Guys, how can I mount an MTP device (my that camera) into the filesystem?
12:37 < hexnewbie> OnkelTem: There are FUSE filesystems for that. But install DigiKam, that supports MTP
12:37 < OnkelTem> Currently it's available via Dolphin and has schema in the address bar like 'camera:/'
12:37 < OnkelTem> hexnewbie: thanks! "K" hopefully stands for KDE? :)
12:38 < hexnewbie> OnkelTem: Yeah
12:38 < OnkelTem> :thumbsup:
12:38 < hexnewbie> There's mtpfs for mounting, though :)
12:41 < plain-user> how can i pad characters to a string to a certain lenght? for example, i have a file with a words each on its line, different lenght. need to fill up all those lines with spaces after words to have lines 16 characters long. such as line1 is word11111111111 line2 is longerword111111
12:43 < hexnewbie> printf "%16s\n" or printf "%-16s\n"
12:44 < plain-user> ok, let me try, thank you
12:57 < plain-user> almost working... i am doing this: for var1 in $(<1inputfile.txt) ; do printf "%16s\n" $var1 ; done
12:58 < plain-user> It is adding the spaces (just what i need!) to the begging of the line, and shifts whatever word to the end. but how to make it add the spaces to the end...
12:58 < hexnewbie> Use "$var1" instead of $var to fix this issue. And not just here, everywhere
12:58 < plain-user> the minues sign overwrites on top of the word from beginning, not after word...
12:59 < plain-user> oh, you mean put it in quotes.. just a sec
12:59 < Sitri> How are you using the minus sign?
13:01 < plain-user> for var1 in $(<file.txt) ; do printf "%16s\n" "$var1" ; done      --- this one gives the spaces at the beginning, shifting the words to the right. with for var1 in $(<file) ; do printf "%-16s\n" "$var1" ; done  --- the minues before 16 it overwrites..
13:02 < stevendale> Some people say i am a troll, what i actually am is mentally challenged, stubborn, and annoying
13:05 < iodev> stevendale: agreed
13:05 < Sitri> <plain-user> the minues sign overwrites on top of the word from beginning, not after word... <-- what do you mean by that?
13:07 < stevendale> Hi dwiqewn
13:07 < plain-user> if i can understand what the "%16s\n" do i will work dit out. what is % purpose? 16 is lenght of file. what is s, space? \n is the stopping characters which is end of line.
13:08 < BluesKaj> Hey folks
13:09 < NerdTheThird> henlo
13:10 < Sitri> printf() is from the C standard library, "%16s\n" is the "format string", "%s" means 'replace this with a string', the 16 is a format modifier that prefixes the value until it is at least 16 characters, a minus sign before that makes it suffix the value up to 16 characters.  `man 3 printf` for more details
13:11 < Sitri> The printf bash command is basically the same, you can get documentation for it specifically with `help printf`
13:13 < NerdTheThird> yes
13:15 < plain-user> Sitri: https://paste.linux.community/view/d7ce8c59
13:15 < spiderpim> What is linux?
13:16 < ||JD||> what is love?
13:16 < plain-user> Sitri: thank you for explanation, i will read now.
13:16 < NerdTheThird> it's uhm... a thing. you can't touch it, you can't smell it, but you can break it. it's a riddle
13:22 < Sitri> plain-user: https://paste.linux.community/view/7fd2012d
13:23 < hdfs> What does this mean? https://pastebin.com/rhpDwseG
13:23 < BluesKaj> spiderpim, https://www.webopedia.com/TERM/L/linux_os.html
13:23 < Sitri> hdfs: means you can only edit those files and not do anything else
13:23 < ananke> hdfs: this seems to be in plain english. what part don't you understand?
13:24 < hexnewbie> NerdTheThird: Hm.... Is grub config the answer?
13:25 < NerdTheThird> you tell me
13:25 < NerdTheThird> uniting templeOS with GNU/Linux is the answer
13:26 < NerdTheThird> Temple of GNU and Linux OS
13:26 < spiderpim> templeOS is only for the classy, the whealthy and the faithful
13:27 < NerdTheThird> i think it's for those wealthy in their spirit
13:27 < spiderpim> does Linux come with a free copy of gcc?
13:28 < ananke> spiderpim: yes
13:28 < spiderpim> nice
13:28 < djph> well, you have to choose to install it, but otherwise yeah.
13:33 < plain-user> Sitri: Thank You. That has worked. I have changed my file to have NO CRLF characters and it worked, before the output was skewed. this is the probably because dictionary came from Windows.
13:33 < kurahaupo> I suppose I could make a Linux release that has an expensive copy of gcc
13:36 < jim> spiderpim, which linux dist are you interested in installing?
13:36 < spiderpim> I use Arch btw
13:37 < spiderpim> no, I have no intent of trolling, just wanted to see how serious this is
13:37 < jim> I don't know much about arch... and, it shouldn't be hard to get gcc for it
13:37 < spiderpim> I mean, the subreddit is full of memes
13:37 < spiderpim> hope that's fair. I'm glad people here try to help newcomers
13:37 < jim> ok, is there something (else) you'd like to know?
13:38 < jim> we do, yes,
13:38 < spiderpim> no, I'm just glad, as weird as that might sound
13:39 < jim> doesn't sound weird... the level of help available at various places... varies
13:41 < jim> one important skill you can get is information gathering
13:42 < spiderpim> Wait, why am I connected to #linux AND to ##linux? Is that intended behavior?
13:44 < jim> ok, that has sorta a round about answer, which starts with the fact Linus Torvalds owns the trademark "linux"
13:44 < spiderpim> but why am I connected to it automatically?
13:45 < spiderpim> it's empty
13:45 < djph> I don't think there's an "official" (one hash) channel for "Linux", due to Linus owning the trademark
13:45 < noodlepie> All the software in the GNU.ORG operating system, and Linux, a system kernel unaffiliated to GNU, is licenced Freely to protect your rights. You can change it and redistrribute, but your changes must be made Free Software too! @:P-~
13:45 < djph> pretty sure it redirects here
13:46 < jim> the irc net you're on, uses marks on the channel names to differentiate between channels whose projects are owned by the person who register the channel... those channels can begin with a single #
13:46 < jim> channels that are "about" something, without having an official ownership connection, have to use two ##
13:47 < jim> spiderpim, so that's the story of the # and ## channels
13:48 < trae32566[w]> with the exception of legacy names which were grandfathered in.
13:51 < spiderpim> welp, still doesn't explain why I was automatically connected to both # and ##
13:52 < djph> your client perhaps
13:52 < spiderpim> I duess it's a small bug then
13:52 < spiderpim> welp, I guess
13:52 < spiderpim> I use Polari as that cam pre-installed
13:53 < spiderpim> with Gnome
13:53 < djph> probably that you connected to #linux, the client saw the redirect as "open a new tab/window/whatever" and just didn't close the other.
13:59 < spiderpim> weird that this glitch only occured with this channel
13:59 < djph> perhaps it's the only channel you've connected to that has the behavior of a redirect.
13:59 < spiderpim> I had a full list with the most not even having 1 # displayed
14:01 < spiderpim> oh I discovered the bug
14:01 < supernovah> is there a way I can supress the editline reverse-i-search in mysql for a customer while they enter their password in a mysql query?
14:01 < spiderpim> ChanServ, the bot, glitched and I clicked in the #linux link, while it should be ##linux, so I joined a new channel
14:03 < widp> good ways to edit pdf on linux?
14:03 < widp> I want to add an outline to a pdf file.
14:05 < pingfloyd> widp: https://itsfoss.com/edit-pdf-files-ubuntu-linux/
14:10 < sukil> hi
14:11 < sukil> I'm the guy who couldn't scroll yesterday. Turns out I still can't. My $TERM is simply linux, and shift+pgup and shift+pgdn / arrow up and down doesn't do anything
14:12 < djph> do you have anything to scroll?
14:13 < jim> the linux $TERM is the text virtual consoles
14:13 < sukil> Yes. If I for example do ls --help it doesn't let me
14:13 < sukil> let*
14:14 < djph> you're not doing something funny like running inside screen (tmux) are you?
14:15 < sukil> Don't know
14:16 < jim> doesn't let you scroll? the virtual consoles don't provide a lot of space to scroll, but if you stay on them, you should be able to scroll. they won't keep stuff once you go to another virtual console and back
14:17 < jim> they just didn't write the virtual consoles (it's kernel code) to do persistant scrolling
14:20 < sukil> But I'm not switching away and back
14:31 < rascul> use screen for better scrolling
14:31 < rascul> or tmux
14:31 < djph> ^
14:31 < djph> although, the scroll keys are different
14:32 < rascul> true
14:49 < eagle> hi, how can I replace linux with ubuntu?
14:49 < djph> eagle: err, what?
14:49 < eagle> my sister installed linux on my laptop
14:49 < eagle> but I 'd rather run ubuntu
14:50 < ikonia> ubuntu is linux
14:50 < djph> Ubuntu is a distribution of (GNU/)Linux
14:50 < eagle> GNU?
14:50 < ikonia> yes
14:50 < rascul> and the confusion begins
14:50 < revel> They're these big cow things.
14:50 < eagle> oh you mean vintage 1996 rms foot cheese
14:50 < luka_33> Apparently there's a shitload of malwareon the ubuntu appstore
14:50 < eagle> got it
14:50 < revel> eagle: Go troll elsewhere.
14:50 < ikonia> ahhh trolling then
14:50 < djph> GNU is all the userland stuff; don't worry about it.   In either event, Ubuntu is a distro of Linux, so your "sister installed linux but I want to use Ubuntu" makes no sense
14:50 < eagle> they say GNU hurd > linux
14:51 < ikonia> djph: it's a troll, ignore
14:51 < djph> ikonia: oh?
14:51 < ikonia> djph: sadly yes
14:51  * djph shakes troll-o-meter
14:51 < djph> hmm, must be broken again
14:52 < rascul> gnu is not "all the userland stuff"
14:52 < rascul> it's bad enough they try to claim linux, let's not give them everything else
14:56 < djph> meh
15:20 < kurahaupo> sukil: shift-pgup in a VT is all kernel code, so if it's not working (a) are you really using a VT, and (b) do you have a custom kernel?
15:22 < sukil> kurahaupo: I'm using a freshly installed Archlinux. $TERM say 'linux', and tty says /dev/tty1
15:24 < kurahaupo> Ok that sounds right. Is the VT is "alt page mode" (that's the mode used by vi so it disappears and shows your previous command screen when it exits)?
15:24 < kurahaupo> The alt page mode is non-scrollable
15:26 < sukil> how can I check that? (Sorry guys, I'm totally new to this thing)
15:27 < hehehe> https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Lenovo-IdeaPad-100-305-500-Edge/IdeaPad-100s-I-can-not-change-the-Boot-menu-of-my-Lenovo-IdeaPad/td-p/2214629
15:27 < hehehe> who here knows if such problem is even solvable?
15:28 < hehehe> or I am wasting my time and I should try to flush bios?
15:31 < prussian> well, what is your problem?
15:31 < luxio> What was the terminal emulator where you could create a new tab and right click it to set the name?
15:34 < ikonia> hehehe: it tells you what to do in that post
15:34 < ikonia> it tells you in other posts on the forum in more detail and also some of the "traps" you can fall into as the bios setup on that device is fussy
15:34 < djph> ikonia: that would implied he read the post, before pasting the link.
15:34 < ikonia> it's not a linux problem,
15:34 < ikonia> djph: he's already done this in other channels
15:35 < djph> ikonia: ew
15:35 < ikonia> it's a tricky bios setup for sure, but that post and a few others along with one of the official docs does map it out as a process pretty clearly
15:36 < djph> remind me to not ever buy an "ideapad"
15:36 < ikonia> djph: they are actually pretty good
15:36 < ikonia> it's just some of the older ones with early efi implmentations or the cheap budget ones have this poor efi setup on
15:36 < djph> I just hate fighting with a machine
15:36 < djph> ahh
15:36 < hehehe> ikonia: you go and read that post
15:36 < ikonia> the mid range + or modern ones are actually very very compliant
15:37 < ikonia> hehehe: I have,
15:37 < ikonia> along with a few others
15:37 < hehehe> after secure boot is disabled it cant disable uefi
15:37 < djph> I mean, "look PC, you are owned by me, and you will do what I want"
15:37 < hehehe> or change it
15:37 < prussian> some HP ones would just reinstall some microsoft ESP whenever it disappeared
15:37 < hehehe> ikonia: if you know how to fix it say it
15:37 < ikonia> hehehe: correct, you can't disable uefi
15:37 < prussian> no reason to not use efi
15:37 < ikonia> hehehe: it's not just "say" you have to set some stuff up
15:37 < prussian> it's 10x easier to setup as well
15:37 < ikonia> which is documented in that thread, and a few others, along with one of the official docs
15:38 < ikonia> prussian: this case it's quite fussy
15:38 < ikonia> (on this specific device)
15:38 < hehehe> ikonia: in that thread no answer is given
15:38 < ikonia> hehehe: there are multiple answers given
15:38 < hehehe> I do have a custom lubuntu distro
15:38 < hehehe> meh
15:38 < prussian> ok
15:38 < hehehe> with 32 bit loader
15:38 < ikonia> including one guy who says "I've just installed windows 10 from usb"
15:38 < prussian> you just need an ESP with some bootx64.efi, it's that simple
15:39 < hehehe> ikonia: link...
15:39 < ikonia> hehehe: it's IN the document you linked
15:39 < ikonia> it's actually in that post
15:39 < ikonia> hence READ it
15:40 < hehehe> I READ IT
15:40 < hehehe> lol
15:40 < ikonia> clearly not
15:40 < ikonia> I'm not laughing
15:40 < ikonia> you're wasting everyones time with this attitude
15:40 < prussian> can you explain what you're doing, or do youeven know what you're doing hehehe
15:40 < hehehe> ikonia: if you dont know how to fix it, kindly move on
15:41 < ikonia> prussian: it's a weak lenvo device, with a really restricive efi implmenation
15:41 < prussian> the fix is to learn how UEFI works
15:41 < hehehe> prussian: ok I have made a custom lubuntu iso with a 32 bit loader
15:41 < ikonia> it requires some specific setup to work with it
15:41 < prussian> i doubt it
15:41 < hehehe> and I have disabled secured boot
15:41 < ikonia> the docs are pretty clear on it
15:41 < prussian> 32bit what loader?
15:41 < ikonia> (even the official ones state how restrictive it is)
15:41 < prussian> is it an EFI bootloader?
15:41 < hehehe> 1 moment I will provide you a link prussian
15:41 < hehehe> yes
15:41 < hehehe> 32 bit EFI bootloader
15:41 < ikonia> but it is totally workable if you comply
15:41 < hehehe> custom iso
15:42 < hehehe> ikonia: comply with what
15:42 < ikonia> the requirements to use it
15:42 < hehehe> pastebin exact solution then
15:42 < prussian> you marked the fat partition as an ESP? the underlying partition table is GPT?
15:42 < hehehe> prussian: I have used ready made custom Iso
15:42 < prussian> the efi appliance is in \EFI\BOOT<target>.EFI ?
15:42 < hehehe> so maybe that can be an issue
15:42 < ikonia> hehehe: its not the ISO
15:43 < ikonia> hehehe: read what prussian just said
15:43 < prussian> otherwise you need to insert an efi variable
15:43 < ikonia> it's also what's in the docs
15:43 < ikonia> (the link you actually pasted in this channel shows you what you have to do)
15:43 < ikonia> look at the post from chriswood
15:43 < ikonia> he even calls out the traps, eg: the mouse won't work, you need an external mouse)
15:44 < ikonia> chrisgood sorry
15:44 < hehehe> ok I see it now
15:44 < ikonia> as I've told you 10+ times
15:44 < ikonia> yes you should have READ IT
15:44 < ikonia> READ the link you're actually posting
15:45 < hehehe> i have read page 1
15:45 < hehehe> :)
15:45 < ikonia> it's not funny
15:45 < ikonia> you're wasting time
15:45 < ikonia> you've messed around in multiple channels with this claiming you've read it
15:45 < hehehe> telling people to read docs is sure way to alienate them mate
15:45 < hehehe> you can simply say - you missed page 2
15:45 < ikonia> when all the time you've wasted, you could have actually read it
15:45 < ikonia> it took 5 minutes for me to read through the thread
15:45 < ikonia> hehehe: how do I know you've missed page 2 ?
15:45 < hehehe> ikonia: get off your high horse lol
15:45 < ikonia> you keep insisting you've read it
15:46 < ikonia> I'm not on a high horse
15:46 < hehehe> you could say it to me - mate you missed page 2
15:46 < ikonia> I'm asking you to actually READ the informaiton thats available
15:46 < hehehe> simple
15:46 < ikonia> I have no idea if you've read page 2 or not
15:46 < hehehe> bingo
15:46 < hehehe> I missed it
15:46 < hehehe> get it lol
15:46 < hehehe> now I see it
15:46 < ikonia> because you have no attention to detail
15:46 < ikonia> you dind't actually read it
15:47 < ikonia> there are also references to another link with more specific detail and an official doc
15:47 < ikonia> those will help you if you require specific steps
15:47 < ikonia> I'll leave you to it,
15:47 < prussian> I see. well unless your efi firmware is really really just not ok. a) GPT partition table b) vfat partition with the EF00 partition flag c) on the vfat partition, the default EFI application is found on \EFI\BOOTX64.EFI where x64 is your target platform. that's it
15:48 < prussian> there isn't any magic other than the Mibs of gross nonfree firmware code that makes this all happen
15:48 < hehehe> true
15:49 < hehehe> and ikonia no need to go personal, if you dont want to reply in future, dont - instead he is wasting my time, other channels etc
15:49 < hehehe> :)
15:49 < ikonia> I'm not going personal
15:49 < ikonia> how am I wasting your time ? I've given you the answer 5+ times
15:55 < revel> Just checking, but you can have your EFI partition basically anywhere on the disk, not just in the first however many mega/giga/terabytes, right?
15:56 < stmiller> revel: yes
15:57 < prussian> you can even directly boot the linux kernel image with EFI
15:57 < prussian> no need for another efi app to do that for you
15:58 < revel> Yeah, EFI stub thingy.
15:59 < hehehe> prussian: 64 bit version lubuntu can it work with 32 bit EFI?
15:59 < ikonia> prussian: is there a way to actually use EFI as the boot loader and bypass the need for bootloaders like grub ?
15:59 < hehehe> or nope
16:00 < prussian> is there even a 32bit only efi?
16:00 < prussian> also yes, you need to store an efi variable
16:00 < prussian> or name it \EFI\BOOTX64.EFI
16:01 < hehehe> well since its 2 GB ram netbook would it give any extra perfomance if I install 64 bit os?
16:01 < prussian> jesus. well that explains a lot
16:01 < prussian> i didn't evne know they had x86 "32bit" EFI firmware
16:01 < prussian> hehehe: if you use the X32 abi sure
16:02 < hehehe> what is an x32 abi?
16:02 < hehehe> bit I guess
16:03 < hehehe> oki
16:03 < prussian> pointers and the like are 4 bytes, but everything else is like amd64
16:03 < revel> hehehe: Some unholy hellspawn child of 32-bit and 64-bit x86.
16:03 < revel> prussian: I think old macbooks have 32-bit EFI firmware.
16:04 < hehehe> revel yep
16:04 < jim> x32 must be a bit width, and probably it would be as opposed to a 16 bit api or a 64 bit api
16:04 < jim> (but linux wouldn't be involved with a 16 bit machine)
16:04 < revel> I guess DOS has a one-up on Linux there.
16:05 < jim> or a one-down
16:05 < revel> lol
16:05 < hehehe> well I am installing 32 bit lubuntu - it will be nice as well :)
16:05 < jim> it should be fine
16:06 < jim> I ran 32bit for a long time
16:06 < revel> Speaking of EFI. How big should the EFI partition be?
16:06 < jim> enough to hold all the boot loaders
16:07 < hehehe> jim it seems it can even support quad core on 32 bit :)
16:07 < revel> 8GB should be plenty then.
16:07 < jim> how many OSes do you have on that machine?
16:07 < revel> One.
16:07 < jim> ok, is the boot loader file in the efi partition?
16:08 < revel> I'm on a regular legacy BIOS thingy machine right now, so, idk. GPT disk though.
16:08 < prussian> depends. I use a 1GiB esp because I bundle my kernel and initramfs's in signed efi bundles.
16:08 < prussian> so my esp is full of kernel/initramfs's
16:08 < jim> revel, then -perhaps- you don't need an efi partition at all?
16:08 < revel> My /boot is 120MB and that's doing fine.
16:08 < ikonia> prussian: do you have any docs on that approach ?
16:09 < revel> jim: Really? I thought that was a necessity.
16:09 < jim>  /boot needs to be big enough to hold all the kernels you want to install
16:10 < revel> It is.
16:10 < revel> And the initramfs's too.
16:10 < jim> revel, well, I guess not, if you don't boot in efi style
16:10 < jim> revel, true
16:10 < revel> http://termbin.com/cfde
16:11 < prussian> ikonia: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Secure_Boot#Using_your_own_keys
16:11 < prussian> is close enough to what I do
16:11 < ikonia> thank you
16:11 < ikonia> no no, thats fine, just a feeder doc is enough
16:11 < ikonia> don't need complete solution, just want to understand your approach
16:11 < revel> What's with the bin anyway...? Seems to just be a symlink to /bin
16:12 < mcclapyourhands> can someone help me set up a Samba server on a specific folder (and included directories) without changing the perms of the folder from 667?
16:12 < mcclapyourhands> this is an application directory
16:12 < prussian> basically I use system'd efi boot stub, insert kernel/initrd blobs in it and sign it
16:12 < jim> revel, normally on an efi installation, you'd have a dir /boot/efi to mount the efi partition on
16:12 < Dagmar> Those cannot possibly be the correct permissions
16:12 < mcclapyourhands> 667?
16:12 < revel> jim: Yeah, but that can be done later on. I think I'd need to boot from an EFI-capable boot thingy too, since I can't just `modprobe efivars`
16:13 < jim> you'd want to move the drive to a different machine?
16:13 < revel> Huh? No.
16:14 < jim> and the machine it's on now doesn't support efi booting?
16:14 < revel> It does, I'm just currently on legacy.
16:14 < noodlepie> I understand nested screen sessions more now, especially the reconnecting to inner sessions which aquire the parent screen, like a container. Its fun!
16:14 < jim> oh, now things make sense
16:14 < noodlepie> @:P-~
16:15 < jim> so maybe someday you want to switch
16:16 < revel> I was thinking of doing that, yeah. And just switching back should be as easy as running `grub-install` again since it's already GPT, right?
16:16 < jim> I think you would need to give the grub-install some parameters
16:17 < revel> For EFI, yeah.
16:17 < jim> someone who knows more than me can explain how to do it
16:17 < jim> and that can happen likely here or on #grub
16:18 < jim> if I recall correctly, the parameter you pass has something to do with removable
16:23 < prussian> grubby is pretty nice if you have to deal with grub grossness
16:35 < widp> So for some reason my usb 3.0 ports stoppped working.
16:35 < widp> any help on figuring out the issue?
16:39 < Psi-Jack> Huh. Interesting. Debian 9 has an apt-daily.timer and apt-daily-upgrade.timer which can automate security updates and more.
16:40 < hehehe> prussian: is there an easy way to make efi bootable lubuntu image?
16:40 < hehehe> nearly there :)
16:41 < lesshaste> my pc has taken to spontaneously rebooting every now and then.. is there any way to trap this?
16:41 < lesshaste> I am running ubuntu 16.04
16:41 < luka_33> journalctl?
16:44 < hehehe> ... :)
16:44 < Dagmar> lesshaste: Direct syslog to send to another machine over hte network and maybe you'll catch whatever it is
16:44 < hehehe> what is is this efi partion
16:45 < lesshaste> Dagmar, I will try that.. thanks
16:45 < lesshaste> luka_33,  what is that?
16:46 < luka_33> a journal of every event that occurs.  You can filter by errors by running the -xb flags.  If the linux kernel noticed why your pc was rebooting it should be somewhere in there
16:47 < lesshaste> luka_33, ah ok.. and that is something I set up?
16:47 < luka_33> Should be on your computer to start with.  Try running journalctl -xb from a CLI
16:47 < hehehe> If you select UEFI mode with GPT partition in Rufus it will automatically install EFI files in bootable media. – Biswapriyo Jul 6 '17 at 8:41
16:47 < hehehe> does not work :)
16:48 < lesshaste> luka_33, it starts from when I turned the computer on.. Can you see older messages?
16:48 < luka_33> it should, yess
16:49 < luka_33> Just run journalctl -x for older messages
16:49 < luka_33> the -b flaG is since last boot
16:49 < lesshaste> journalctl -x is still starting from 10 minutes ago
16:49 < luka_33> dunno then
16:49 < Dagmar> *couhgcough* the relevant messages are going to appear just *before* the current reboot
16:49 < mouses> lesshaste: check /var/log ?
16:50 < lesshaste> mouses, thanks.. I fear nothing was written but I will look there again
16:50 < Dagmar> ...that's assuming the cache was actually flushed to disk and the journal was updated before the spontaneous reboot happened.
16:50 < lesshaste> mouses, I can make it reboot more or less reliably
16:50 < Dagmar> Hence, pushing those messages across the network
16:50 < luka_33> wait just run journalctl w/out flags
16:50 < mouses> lesshaste: that directory can be a hot mess ;(
16:50 < luka_33> I'm an idio
16:50 < lesshaste> Dagmar, right.. I don't thinkn it was
16:51 < lesshaste> from a technical point of view, what can cause a spontaneous reboot?
16:51 < lesshaste> I mean it doesn't go through the shutdown process
16:51 < mouses> lesshaste: but the whole 'sudden reboot' thing
16:51 < Dagmar> Unstable hardware
16:51 < Dagmar> Bad drivers
16:51 < luka_33> yeah this^
16:51 < mouses> lesshaste: unstable hardware
16:51 < luka_33> perhaps heat issues?
16:51 < mouses> maybe overheating
16:51 < lesshaste> I did run memtest but it showed no errors
16:51 < Dagmar> Usually it's unstable hardware, particularly the CPU or RAM
16:51 < lesshaste> hmm ok I will monitor the temperature
16:51 < luka_33> Laptop or desktop?
16:51 < lesshaste> desktop.. shouldn't memtest show RAM problems?
16:51 < mouses> lesshaste: have you opened up the case and like - blown out the fans with some compressed air and cleaned things up?
16:51 < Dagmar> If you run it all night it probably will
16:52 < lesshaste> Dagmar,  I did run memtest overnight but nothing
16:52 < lesshaste> mouses, no! I will do that
16:52 < mouses> lesshaste: it's a desktop, right?
16:52 < lesshaste> mouses, yes
16:52 < Dagmar> Then it's probably your ATI or Atheros drivers
16:53 < mouses> lesshaste: open that case, pull out the cards, reseat them, get a can of air and blow out the heatsinks/fans
16:53 < lesshaste> Dagmar, interesting
16:53 < luka_33> Do you have a boot USB?
16:53 < luka_33> That would make things easy.
16:53 < mouses> lesshaste: how old is the desktop and when was the last time you cleaned it out?
16:53 < lesshaste> https://bpaste.net/show/7e0b630f8e1d
16:53 < mouses> lesshaste: also do you have cats/dogs? :)
16:53 < lesshaste> luka_33, oh you mean boot of a USB stick?
16:53 < Dagmar> THe hardware is already damaged if dust accumulation is causing this
16:54 < Dagmar> It'll be too late to do anything to get rid of the dust
16:54 < luka_33> I mean if you have one, boot off it and try using it for a couple hours
16:54 < mouses> Dagmar: nah, throttling may cause instablity
16:54 < luka_33> If nothing happens it was a driver/etc issue
16:54 < Dagmar> Everything now _throttles_ the CPU instead of panicking
16:54 < mouses> Dagmar: to a point
16:54 < mouses> it can still overheat
16:57 < hehehe> update I am respinning the ISO
16:57 < hehehe> then it should work :)
17:04 < noodlepie> Did you remember to select Core2/Xeon cpu build type if you have a Core something CPU? (i7 here), rather then generic-x86_64 which produces slower kernels
17:04 < revel> noodlepie: No, I went with native.
17:42 < NetTerminalGene> i read that google switched to debian based system from ubuntu. why does google choose debian instead of centos or something?
17:43 < mawk> because it's the best, obviously
17:43 < rypervenche> NetTerminalGene: Stability.
17:43 < rascul> NetTerminalGene why not ask google? nobody here knows
17:44 < rypervenche> NetTerminalGene: And it's probably an easier move from Ubuntu to Debian than it is from Ubuntu to CentOS.
17:45 < NetTerminalGene> rypervenche, there switched to debian testing branch
17:45 < rypervenche> NetTerminalGene: Then I don't know. Go ask them.
17:49 < blocky> rascul: there might be people from google here
17:52 < rascul> blocky that doesn't make this the proper forum to discuss internal google decisions
17:52 < hehehe> when changing password on vps in rescue mode
17:52 < hehehe> what do I need to do, it is not just passwd there is something else I remember
17:52 < hehehe> my mate is in gooble
17:52 < hehehe> google
17:52 < triceratux> NetTerminalGene: its simply unclear http://www.itpro.co.uk/software/30308/google-moves-internal-systems-from-ubuntu-to-debian
17:53 < blocky> what are some reasons a hypothetical large tech company would move their systems from ubuntu to debian?
17:54 < blocky> of course we can't know but we can speculate, probably the same reasons that many people choose debian over ubuntu, which is a focus on stability over cutting edge software packages
17:55 < rascul> probably they decided it better suited their purposes
17:55 < rascul> unless and until they release such information, i fail to see how it's relevant in any way to this channel
17:55 < blocky> lol
17:56 < rascul> speculating reasons behind internal google policies isn't exactly on topic here
17:56 < triceratux> maybe they asked Ps1-Jack
17:56 < fddsafsd> I like linux, am I homosexual ?
17:56 < fddsafsd> does that mean we are homosexuals now
17:57 < ayecee> back to the closet with you
17:58 < rascul> hehehe passwd is one method of changing a user's password, not sure why you would think there's more to it though
17:58 < hexnewbie> Computers are definitely different species, not even from our tree of life, operating systems aren't even from this universe (as they don't exist in meatspace), so I don't think it's fair to put it in the same category as liking humans.
17:59 < hehehe> ayecee: how I can download a text file from a site that uses php redirect
17:59 < hehehe> via wget
17:59 < ayecee> i don't know
17:59 < blocky> hexnewbie: that was a bit of a non sequitur i think
17:59 < hehehe> rascul: there is more to it when you login in rescue mode and mount partition
17:59 < jeffree> fddsafsd: it most likely indicates that you are heterosexual
17:59 < blocky> hehehe: wget won't follow the redirect?
17:59 < blocky> what about curl?
17:59 < hehehe> blocky: yep it wont
17:59 < jeffree> as it likely is due to liking freedom, which is a masculine trait
18:00 < rascul> hehehe oh i see what you're saying, you can chroot your mounted partition or use the -R option
18:00 < hexnewbie> I'm pretty sure wget follows redirects
18:00 < rascul> wget follows redirects
18:00 < hehehe> https://1fichier.com/?j57n3hip5c feel free to try
18:00 < hehehe> this is the file I am aiming to get
18:00 < fddsafsd> I think linux use implies homosexuality
18:00 < fddsafsd> windows is for real men
18:00 < jeffree> lol
18:01 < jeffree> what will you say when windows is linux-based?
18:01 < fddsafsd> ill call bill gates a cocksucker
18:01 < blocky> and somehow this discussion is not as off-topic as the one about debian vs ubuntu @ google
18:01 < fddsafsd> after all those years if he goes that far
18:01 < noodlepie> Linux is verility! :P
18:01 < rascul> blocky indeed it is
18:02 < fddsafsd> I can't even get a damn magic trackpad to work with linux
18:02 < Armand> jeffree: Azure Sphere
18:02 < hehehe> rascul: ty for chroot tip - wget does not follow redirect :(
18:02 < jeffree> Armand: yep
18:02 < hehehe> what else can I try?
18:02 < fddsafsd> that's full on homosexuality
18:02 < rascul> hehehe eh sorry the wget thing wasn't for you
18:02  * Armand sets fddsafsd on fire
18:02 < rascul> oh wait, yes it does
18:02 < rascul> what is the exact url you are trying to wget?
18:02 < hehehe> https://1fichier.com/?j57n3hip5c
18:02 < Armand> jeffree: I said it would happen, YEARS ago.
18:02 < hexnewbie> hehehe: wget certainly *does* follow redirects. That URL is not a redirect.
18:03 < hehehe> hmm what it is then?
18:03 < hexnewbie> hehehe: A web page.
18:03 < hehehe> it is a free uploading site
18:03 < rascul> hehehe that url won't get you the file you want, you have to click a few times to get the actual download url
18:03 < rascul> then they apparently don't keep it up for very long so you don't have much of a window to download
18:03 < jeffree> Armand: interesting. did/do you think it would happen for the desktop side?
18:03 < Armand> Yes
18:04 < rascul> hehehe is this your file you put there? i would recommend using a sane and not crappy service in the future
18:04 < hexnewbie> And the site owner would probably limit the correct URL (using cookies, and/or URL expiration) to prevent you from using external software like wget (mostly to prevent you sharing the direct link)
18:04 < Armand> jeffree: MS have already shown that they can't develop secure and stable products.
18:04 < hehehe> rascul: like what?
18:04 < jeffree> Armand: I heard it predicted that windows would become a linux distro recently on some podcast and it somehow seemed believable
18:04 < Armand> As I said... YEARS ago... lol
18:05 < rascul> hehehe there's a vast plethora of options, i don't have any specific examples
18:05 < jeffree> I mean, when the majority of the work is already done for you, and it's mostly good quality, why not?
18:05 < rascul> Armand they produce closed source software which can never be secure
18:05 < rascul> if i can't prove that it's secure, it's by default insecure
18:05 < Armand> rascul: It *can* be secure.
18:05 < rascul> i can't prove it, so no, it's not
18:06 < Armand> Open or closed makes approximately ZERO difference.
18:06 < Armand> None at all.
18:06 < rascul> it makes a vast difference
18:06 < Armand> THAT is a matter of trust.
18:06 < Armand> Not some rhetorical nonsense
18:06 < rascul> simply because you have no idea what the software is doing if you can't see the source, you have no way to know that it's actually secure
18:06 < Armand> Bunk
18:07 < Armand> Your..... theory... if we can call it that, is based on gross assumption.. without any factual basis.
18:07 < Armand> So... enjoy.
18:07 < hehehe> rascul: there are next to 0 sites that are free and allow direct linking
18:07 < ayecee> /r/iamverysmart
18:07 < jeffree> that is confusing
18:07  * Armand hugs ayecee 
18:07 < hexnewbie> Independent inspection of the code you're running is certainly important in terms of security, but actually verifying a piece of software is secure, not backdoored and actually built from the sources you think it's built from - well, there are far bigger problems with that exercise. There are no way to get complete guarantees.
18:08 < rascul> hexnewbie indeed, it's just one of the steps, and you can verify it's built from the source you're looking at if you build it in house
18:08 < hexnewbie> rascul: Unless your compiler is backdoored, of course :)
18:08 < rascul> indeed, but you can take the same steps
18:08 < Armand> :trollface:
18:09 < rascul> although auditing compilers is probably more than the vast majority of people are capable of doing
18:09 < mcclapyourhands> https://gist.github.com/SolarisEclipse/8433e541f6779a8fd88905b23dc59efa can someone help me figure out why java didn't install correctly?
18:09 < mcclapyourhands> it's not allowing ssl usage
18:09 < mcclapyourhands> I've already been at the java channel
18:10 < rascul> mcclapyourhands more context is needed
18:10 < rascul> what are you showing us, what's the problem, what are you doing?
18:10 < hexnewbie> rascul: Then even if you audit the code of the compiler, the compiler you're compiling it with can backdoor the binary without no trace in the source code you're building it from. Ken Thompson of Unix fame demonstrated that in 1984.
18:11 < rascul> hexnewbie i know, it's a conundrum
18:11 < rascul> working in the security field is hard
18:12 < hexnewbie> (Admittedly, computer security is way easier than, say, human health :D )
18:12 < blocky> hexnewbie: have you seen this https://www.wired.com/2016/06/demonically-clever-backdoor-hides-inside-computer-chip/
18:12 < mcclapyourhands> I just need to figure out how to install the CA certs for java I've already tried sudo apt-get install ca-certificates-java and restarting but the java application still refuses to authenticate
18:12 < OnceMe> how can i cehck hdd size
18:12 < OnceMe> but full
18:12 < OnceMe> not only in linux fs
18:13 < rascul> OnceMe fdisk will show it, there's certainly other tools also but i can't think of them off the top of my head
18:13 < rascul> mcclapyourhands java uses its own cert store, i don't know how to interact with it though
18:14 < mcclapyourhands> i believe it's keystore but that isn't helping me access the certs
18:15 < hehehe> .
18:15 < hehehe> :)
18:15 < mcclapyourhands> the application will not access the auth servers if it can't get a SSL
18:15 < hehehe> rascul: so yes mate there are no sites that allow direct links
18:15 < hehehe> they all somewhat use proxy or something
18:15 < rascul> hehehe yes there are, i've been linked to some of them in the past
18:15 < mcclapyourhands> as in you have to use DNS to resolve?
18:16 < hehehe> ... I have tried 10
18:16 < hehehe> all the same
18:16 < hehehe> what is  at least one name?
18:16 < rascul> i don't know, it's not something i cared enough about to remember
18:16 < mcclapyourhands> not necessarily even google has an IP address:8080 you can type in and access
18:16 < OnceMe> https://thepasteb.in/p/wjh04ZGWq7EFv
18:16 < OnceMe> rascul:
18:17 < hehehe> thing is it is  5mb text file
18:17 < rascul> OnceMe i don't know what you're showing me
18:17 < hehehe> copy paste via putty is slowww
18:18 < mcclapyourhands> I think linux java is SOL
18:18 < OnceMe> when i write fdisk
18:18 < rascul> OnceMe sudo fdisk -l
18:18 < mawk> for a wildcard certificate *.domain.tld, does it match domain.tld ?
18:18 < mawk> or I need to put domain.tld in addition to *.domain.tld in it
18:18 < rascul> OnceMe there should be a line similar to "Disk /dev/sda: 465.8 GiB, 500107862016 bytes, 976773168 sectors"
18:19 < rypervenche> mawk: Nope. You need both.
18:19 < rascul> mawk there might be some client implementation that will match it, but it's not supposed to
18:20 < rascul> domain.tld doesn't start with a . so it can't logically match
18:20 < rascul> i mean, domain doesn't have a . in front of it
18:20 < mawk> that's lame
18:20 < mawk> thanks
18:20 < rascul> why is it lame?
18:21 < mawk> now I have to request a new certificate
18:21 < mawk> but I see why it's that way
18:21 < rascul> would you expect 'ls *.some.file' to match some.file?
18:21 < mcclapyourhands> help.yourdomainsucks.tech i think is what hes talking about
18:21 < mawk> there would be no way to have a certificate for *.domain.tld and not domain.tld
18:21 < mcclapyourhands> subdomains
18:21 < OnceMe> ok good
18:22 < OnceMe> i have so much
18:22 < OnceMe> mula
18:22 < mcclapyourhands> btw i wouldn't suggest looking up that website I pulled it out of my asss
18:22 < rascul> mawk not wildcards, but i have several certs that match only a specific subdomain and not the root domain
18:23 < mawk> yeah for not wildcard it makes sense
18:24  * rascul goes to try this
18:24 < rascul> might also be the ca
18:24 < OnceMe> whats ca
18:24 < rascul> i mean, the ca might not let you, regardless of the validity
18:24 < OnceMe> if ca is what i mean oh man
18:24 < rascul> OnceMe certificate authority
18:25 < OnceMe> ok
18:25 < OnceMe> that is what i thank
18:25 < mcclapyourhands> oh well I think java is broken indefinately
18:25 < mawk> I requested the new cert rascul now it's fine
18:26 < mawk> using that letsencrypt wildcard thing
18:27 < rascul> ahh my certbot is too old for wildcards
18:27 < mawk> yeah
18:27 < mawk> I got the new one from the unstable repo
18:27 < mawk> apt install --upgrade certbot/unstable
18:27 < rascul> i'll just grab it from github
18:27 < mawk> or from git yeah
18:28 < mawk> git clone ... -b v0.24.0
18:28 < mawk> the one from debian didn't include the proper DNS plugin, I had to install it manually from the git tree
18:28 < mawk> then there was no docs at all, I had to read the source code to get the config file right
18:29 < rascul> there are docs somewhere, i was using them when i made my certbot config
18:29 < rascul> where they are though i don't know
18:29 < mawk> third party docs maybe the
18:29 < mawk> n
18:30 < rascul> https://certbot.eff.org/docs/using.html#configuration-file
18:31 < mawk> docs for the DNS plugin I mean
18:31 < rascul> oh
18:31 < mawk> dns_rfcsomething
18:31 < rascul> i had apparently misunderstood
18:32 < hehehe> more madness   Temporary failure resolving 'nova.clouds.archive.ubuntu.com'
18:33 < hehehe> lol
18:33 < hehehe> firewall allows connection - what can it be?
18:33 < mawk> dns issue, obviously
18:33 < mawk> "failure resolving" it says
18:33 < rascul> ugh this is too much work to setup
18:33 < mawk> lol rascul
18:33 < rascul> i don't use one of the supported services and i don't feel like doing all the TSIG crap
18:34 < mawk> I found it pretty easy, it's just that tutorials are lame and docs are non-existant
18:34 < mawk> TSIG thing is very easy
18:34 < mawk> actually you just need a random base64-string
18:34 < mawk> no special format
18:34 < rascul> some other time i might
18:34 < hehehe> mawk: hmm it did work, any idea how to fix it?
18:34 < hehehe> I mean where to look
18:34 < hehehe> it seems like ovh name server may be down
18:34 < mawk> in /etc/resolv.conf for starters hehehe
18:35 < hehehe> nameserver 62.113.203.99
18:35 < mawk> ok, can you ping that address ?
18:36 < mawk> rascul: I use the knot authoritative server, it was easy to setup, you add an acl line with the ip address of the container where certbot is, you specify the key, that's all
18:36 < mawk> would be the same for bind9
18:36 < mawk> TSIG is just a random base64 string of the correct length
18:36 < rascul> using hurricane electric dns and i don't feel like doing it right now if i can't do it from the terminal
18:37 < rascul> hrm actually maybe i can, i think i have a cli thing for it somewhere...
18:37 < hehehe> mawk: i swapped it for free pub server
18:37 < hehehe> works now
18:38 < hehehe> ovh ns often down
18:38 < mawk> it's a hosted thing rascul ? then it needs to support RFC2136 updates
18:39 < mawk> or you write your own plugin that uses its CLI, it's in python
18:39 < rascul> it supports it
18:39 < mawk> oh alright
18:39 < rascul> i'm just being lazy
18:39 < mawk> then it should be easy
18:39 < mawk> lol
18:39 < mawk> hehehe: programs may modify that file, you need to instruct them no to
18:39 < mawk> do you use DHCP for that server ?
18:39 < mawk> if so, do some configuration to prevent changes to the dns server
18:40 < mawk> or remove the resolvconf program and hardcode the value, I don't know
18:40 < rascul> there's like 120000 ways to change dns servers, easiest is often to edit resolv.conf and set it immutable heh
18:40 < mawk> I thought of doing this once but I found it too dirty lol
18:41 < mawk> the most universal way I found was to write the conf in a file like /etc/resolv.conf.static, then link it to /etc/resolv.conf
18:41 < mawk> that way NetworkManager won't touch it, systemd-resolved won't touch it
18:41 < rascul> it's generally a better idea to have your dhcp software set it properly though
18:41 < rascul> oh, they don't touch symlinks?
18:41 < mawk> if they see a symlink they assume it's managed by something else
18:41 < mawk> unless it's a symlink to their own special file
18:41 < rascul> that's a useful piece of info
18:42 < rascul> i wonder though is resolvconf will still play with it
18:42 < mawk> it's systemd-resolved behavior, I'm not 100% sure about NM tho
18:42 < mawk> I removed resolveconf so I can't tell, but I hope it doesn't
18:43 < rascul> i don't currently have much use for resolvconf
18:44 < rascul> ----i--------e-- /etc/resolv.conf
18:44 < rascul> heh no use for resolvconf at all ;)
18:45 < hehehe> windows goes to such a lenght to stop people from linux :)
18:46 < hehehe> funny and scary
18:46 < hehehe> I am res spinning lubuntu iso to boot lenovo 100s
18:46 < mawk> why don't you run your own DNS server rascul ? what are the benefits of having it hosted at HE ?
18:49 < rascul> mawk it's free, it's good, i don't have to manage it, and scaling is prohibitively expensive for me running my own
18:52 < mawk> I see
18:54 < boringcpg> hey
18:55 < boringcpg> I'm wondering what methods people use to create a cluster of firewalls? Should I just write a custom code to do it? Basically I want to be able to change rules and have them be synchronized across multiple iptables/nftables configuration
18:55 < hehehe> rascul: jim  http://linuxiumcomau.blogspot.com/2017/06/customizing-ubuntu-isos-documentation.html very useful
18:55 < hehehe> :)
18:55 < hehehe> dude make a script to support atom etc devices
18:55 < hehehe> freedom from windows
18:55 < boringcpg> Just wondering if there is something out there already so I don't reinvent the wheel
18:56 < rascul> boringcpg maybe this would be a job for something like ansible?
18:56 < Armand> or puppet
18:56 < boringcpg> The rules are added dynamically to an ipset
18:56 < rascul> hehehe why would i be interested in that?
18:56 < boringcpg> They need to be added very frequently
18:56 < mawk> ip are added to an ipset for existing rules you mean ?
18:56 < Armand> I think CSF has clustering..
18:57 < pnbeast> boringcpg, how "real timey" do you need it?  Simplest might be to just have one with root access to the others, rsync out new rules and restart netfilter afterward via ssh commands.  Don't mess up the rules!
18:57 < boringcpg> Needs to be pretty real time
18:57 < mawk> if it doesn't exist I have a pretty clear idea on how you'd do it boringcpg
18:57 < boringcpg> I was thinking of creating a perspective broker type service that just adds to the ipset on each server
18:57 < mawk> using the netfilter netlink socket you can get realtime notification of new IPs added to an ipset
18:57 < hehehe> rascul: dude do u know how many people buy lenovo netbooks - many
18:57 < uplime> boringcpg: puppet, ansible, chef, etc are for things like that
18:57 < mawk> then broadcast it using whatever method you like most
18:57 < hehehe> they can come to Linux
18:58 < hehehe> rascul: imo we have to evangelize Linux
18:58 < rascul> hehehe why would i care about lenovo notebooks? i'm confused
18:58 < mawk> if you want passive clustering
18:58 < hehehe> else windows will stay
18:58 < rascul> i will do no such thing as evangalizing
18:58 < hehehe> I will
18:58 < rascul> ok
18:58 < noodlepie> Linux is fun free stuff you can do with a computer to do things with - simply licensed
18:58 < rascul> heh simply licensed
18:58 < rascul> have you seen some of the licenses? they're certainly not all simple
18:58 < KernelBloomer> linux is for servers, macOS is for coders and designers, windows is for gamers / office work
18:58 < mawk> else you can do as you said boringcpg , some command/endpoint that will broadcast the new IP to every node
18:59 < ikonia> KernelBloomer: utter nonsense
18:59 < hehehe> rascul: Lord Linux our saviour makes all simple
18:59 < noodlepie> the share but share your changes rule is pretty succinct.
18:59 < boringcpg> I'm basically making a poor man's DDoS protection so I do not have to pay thousands of dollars
18:59 < hehehe> he atoned all our windows sins :P
18:59 < mawk> but you'd need to integrate it with every single program that adds IPs to your ipset
18:59 < KernelBloomer> ikonia, whats nonsense about this?
18:59 < ikonia> KernelBloomer: all of what you said
18:59 < uplime> i do all of my office work on macos, not windows
18:59 < mawk> up to you to measure the costs
18:59 < boringcpg> So I will whitelist known good client IPs
18:59 < KernelBloomer> ikonia, whats your saying into that
19:00 < boringcpg> Since incoming traffic is free, the attacks will not cost me any money besides compute instance.
19:00 < mawk> who's adding the IPs to the ipset exactly boringcpg ?
19:00 < ikonia> KernelBloomer: sorry, I don't understand ?
19:00 < boringcpg> logstash is monitoring the log
19:00 < ikonia> my saying "into" that ?
19:00 < mawk> ok, any node can add them so boringcpg ?
19:00 < KernelBloomer> ikonia, your opinion on why its wrong
19:00 < boringcpg> And extracting the IP from my DDoS protected dedicated server
19:00 < ikonia> KernelBloomer: because all the places I work, that is totally wrong
19:00 < rascul> KernelBloomer maybe you could start by explaining why it is you think linux isn't suitable for coding, designing, gaming, or office work?
19:00 < mawk> can you easily modify logstash to broadcast the ip before adding it to the ipset ? or you want a more generic and passive watching of the ipset that will broadcast itself to the other nodes after the ip is added
19:00 < KernelBloomer> maybe the work part, yes. not the other parts
19:01 < pnbeast> KernelBloomer, Macs are for coffee shop poseurs, Linux is for everything and Windows is for "administrative assistants" to type meaningless drivel into lists in Excel and demand everyone else do the same.
19:01 < ikonia> KernelBloomer: the other parts too
19:01 < KernelBloomer> rascul, lack of application support
19:01 < ikonia> pnbeast: that's also just nonsense
19:01 < boringcpg> Yes I want to broadcast the IP added to the ipset to each slave
19:01 < ikonia> they can pretty much all do the whole lot - just with differnet work flows
19:01 < rascul> KernelBloomer i'm not sure how you got that opinion
19:01 < boringcpg> But also when new slaves come online, they have to get the whole ipset.
19:01 < mawk> ok, so the other solution seems more reasonnable
19:02 < boringcpg> Because if I get a huge attack I need to launch more compute instances in the round robin load balancer
19:02 < mawk> it will integrate seamlessly with litteraly any program that adds IP to an ipset, like fail2ban, or adding them manually
19:02 < rascul> KernelBloomer 15 years ago i might have agreed, but it's a different world now
19:02 < KernelBloomer> macOS is definitely superior because I see a lot of people having macbooks in programming / IT conferences etc.
19:02 < blackgatonegro> boringcpg, out of context that sounds horrible.
19:02 < hehehe> jim lets make church of Linux and them we can issue friends R visas lol
19:02 < rascul> popularity isn't the same as superiority
19:02 < hehehe> 2in1
19:02 < ikonia> KernelBloomer: how does that make it superiror ?
19:02 < ikonia> KernelBloomer: that just means it's a more active choice for a set of users
19:02 < boringcpg> blackgatonegro: Why is it horrible?
19:02 < KernelBloomer> ikonia, power users
19:02 < ikonia> it could be anything to do with discounts, workflow, personal preference
19:02 < KernelBloomer> s/users/coders
19:03 < mawk> boringcpg: so you need two parts: an application component that is able to broadcast messages to slaves, and synchronize state with new slaves, and a watcher component that looks for newly added IPs to the ipset
19:03 < ikonia> KernelBloomer: please...you're being silly now
19:03 < sauvin> Macintosh users are "power users"?
19:03 < pnbeast> "power users"!  Are they "techies", too?
19:03 < mawk> start with the first part while I see how to do the second
19:03 < blackgatonegro> attacks tend to use the less resistance method, unpatched systems, know hardware faults. look at Equifax
19:03 < rascul> you mean the kind of power user that installs tweakui and thinks they know how the kernel works?
19:03 < boringcpg> blackgatonegro: These are volumetric attacks
19:03 < boringcpg> Like DNS reflection
19:03 < boringcpg> NTP reflection
19:03 < blackgatonegro> boringcpg, when slaves go online they get upset _-
19:04 < boringcpg> Unfortunately I can't block UDP
19:04 < ikonia> boringcpg: scatter back mail attack ?
19:04 < ikonia> same thing ?
19:04 < KernelBloomer> windows 10 has improved a lot in terms of security. there were very few bugs found in windows 10 as opposed to linux kernel this year and past 2 years
19:04 < blackgatonegro> boringcpg, what blocking methods you have?
19:04 < ikonia> KernelBloomer: you're just making up things now
19:04 < KernelBloomer> not really
19:04 < ikonia> yes, really
19:05 < blackgatonegro> Windows 10 is best spyware.
19:05 < sauvin> What also can't be known is how many bugs and security holes Microsoft knows about but isn't revealing.
19:05 < ikonia> KernelBloomer: where are the bug stats you've just quoted coming from ?
19:05 < blackgatonegro> And to think that ages ago we complained about skype.
19:05 < noodlepie> I like MODs and mIDIs
19:05 < boringcpg> If I put a bunch of instances behind a load balancer on google cloud, I can make a poor man's DDoS protection that scales when I get large 100Gbps+ attacks
19:05 < aBound> Get yer spyware on. :P
19:05 < fendur> blackgatonegro++
19:05 < boringcpg> Because the volumetric attack traffic will be split between multiple instances...
19:06 < noodlepie> but Amsynth and ZAddSubFX are fun
19:06 < blackgatonegro> antivurus software is basicaly spyware nowadays
19:06 < fendur> that industry is a racket, I'm betting
19:06 < cantbetouched> windows defender replaces the need of AV
19:07 < cantbetouched> 3rd party*
19:07 < fendur> cantbetouched: ok. the industry is still a racket.
19:07 < blackgatonegro> and is not just like Doctor Web, every major and minor antivirus company does it. Norton, how could ye netray me?
19:07 < turkeyhand> can I use os-prober to find win10 and repair grub 2.02 ?
19:07 < turkeyhand> or make an entry into it
19:07 < cantbetouched> hate grub. systemd-boot for life
19:07 < sauvin> KernelBloomer, cantbetouched, there only needs to be one of you in this channel. Choose one and part the other.
19:07 < turkeyhand> well I have grub
19:08 < boringcpg> blackgatonegro: I tried to make a script that adds a rule for each client IP to the Google Cloud firewall, but it takes like 20 seconds to udpate the firewall rules.
19:08 < noodlepie> @:P-~
19:08 < Celmor> if I start my file manager from terminal and start a process with it by opening a file, this process stops if I ^C in terminal, but shouldn't that only stop the file manager?
19:08 < blackgatonegro> boringcpg, lock the door and windows, buit if you do people complains. Why I need a 25 characters alphanumeric password' Why the double verfication?
19:08 < boringcpg> blackgatonegro: And the clients complain that connection takes too long
19:08 < blackgatonegro> is too slow, make it faster!
19:08 < blackgatonegro> And so on.
19:08 < cantbetouched> systemd boot is such an easy way to dual boot w10 and linux\
19:08 < cantbetouched> thanks Arch linux for supporting it
19:09 < cantbetouched> debian will get it in 2030
19:09 < cantbetouched> lol
19:09 < boringcpg> So I want to make a cluster of firewalls which dynamically scale
19:09 < aBound> Kasperskyware.
19:09 < blackgatonegro> EH DUAL BOOT IS TROUBLE, UNLESS YOU USE DIFFERENT HARD DISKS. oNE FOR WINDOWS THE OTHER FOR LINUX.
19:09 < blackgatonegro> oops
19:09 < rascul>  dual boot works fine with just one disk
19:09 < sauvin> blackgatonegro, how is it trouble? I do it all the time.
19:10 < blackgatonegro> boringcpg, reduance is good but make a chain of programs, one fails and you are screwed.
19:10 < turkeyhand> it's always worked
19:10 < rascul> two is typically preferred though, but only one disk is not inherently troublesome
19:10 < boringcpg> mawk: I am surprised there is no software that does this already, or no way to get source IPs from something like redis.
19:10 < rendolf> blackgatonegro: you need to write that in ascii art, it isn't big enough otherwise
19:10 < rendolf> sauvin: what do you use windows for?
19:11 < rascul> sauvin didn't say he uses windows ;)
19:11 < blackgatonegro> sauvin, windows viruses get into linux too, somehow.
19:11 < boringcpg> blackgatonegro: that is why I think making a custom application for it is probably the best approach
19:11 < sauvin> I don't anymore, but I'll usually dual-boot a brand new computer until I'm comfortable with the Linux install, and then the Windows space becomes an extra data partition.
19:11 < cantbetouched> rascul, you on debian?
19:11 < rascul> cantbetouched no
19:11 < aBound> I don't even remember the last time I had to deal with Malware on Linux. :P
19:11 < blackgatonegro> Thank kami the laptop was not modern enough to have the virus mess up with the bios or I would have to throw away that laptop.
19:12 < rascul> blackgatonegro windows viruses aren't much a threat to linux
19:12 < pnbeast> Yeah, sauvin, we know you have those morphing windows-to-linux viruses that "get into" your machine.  Somehow.
19:12 < rascul> but if you're getting them, it's not because you're dual booting
19:12 < blackgatonegro> rascul, if you have windows on the same disk, they can be trouble.
19:12 < rascul> explain how please
19:12 < aBound> Mighty morphing virus rangers. :D
19:12 < turkeyhand> I need windows to work, how do I use os-prober to find the windows partition and add it to grub 2.02
19:12 < rendolf> sauvin: buy the computer without windows, you can spend that extra 100$ on better hardware (or food)
19:12 < mawk> ipsets are kinda low level boringcpg
19:12 < blackgatonegro> I use windows for videogames.
19:12 < boringcpg> I wonder if I should just make a cluster of snort servers and it will just block the attack traffic
19:13 < turkeyhand> I sometimes use it for games too
19:13 < rascul> i use windows to look outside
19:13 < turkeyhand> and other software that the graphics won't work in linux
19:13 < sauvin> rendolf, I'm not always the one who does the buying.
19:14 < blackgatonegro> My windows laptop sits basicallt in dust, I take it out once every two weeks, update windows, play games, then back to the closet it does. Then again I have many videogame consoles.
19:14 < dannylee> \o/
19:14 < pnbeast> So you have viruses getting into your closet, too?
19:14 < blackgatonegro> Heck I remenber trying linux on my dreamcast, after twenty minutes still botting, I have up.
19:15 < aBound> I'd be surprised, if your Dreamcast still works. :D
19:15 < blackgatonegro> well is not like most wifi routers are safe ya know.
19:15 < turkeyhand> the laser usuaully stops working
19:15 < turkeyhand> I loved my dreamcast
19:15 < blackgatonegro> my dreamcast still works.
19:15 < blackgatonegro> Had irt repaired a few years ago.
19:15 < blackgatonegro> I even got a spare one just in case.
19:16 < turkeyhand> does anyone know how to use os-prober to find windows and add it to grub
19:16 < rendolf> I'm thinking about starting a office linux company, for regular businesses. The idea is to just push compatible updates and security patches and office software.
19:16 < sumi> hello
19:16 < rendolf> sumi: hi
19:16 < aBound> My PS2 still works but it needs a replacement for the DVD drive. :P
19:16 < sumi> i messed up a cli on my raspbian. could you tell me what are the defaults perms for /etc/init.d files and /etc/login.defs?
19:16 < sumi> been looking around google to no avail.
19:17 < ikonia> sumi: depends on your distro
19:17 < sumi> debian stretch
19:17 < sumi> for now i went for 0600, but i’m afraid it may be too restrictive
19:17 < ikonia> best to just ask the guys in #debian for ls -la output on those files
19:17 < sumi> okay cool, you’re right.
19:17 < ikonia> more chance of them running it "now"
19:18 < sumi> thanks :)
19:18 < blackgatonegro> aBound, those are still cheapo.
19:19 < blackgatonegro> the ps2 used pretty generic components for the dvd drive
19:19 < aBound> blackgatonegro, Indeed it's been years since I've used it.
19:19 < blackgatonegro> just be sure what you do and voltage beware.
19:19 < aBound> blackgatonegro, I still have my SOCOM 3 beta discs.
19:19 < blackgatonegro> all my old videogame consoles still work save my old game and watch that I lost.
19:20 < blackgatonegro> one of these days I sould get to finish FF 7 on the ps1
19:20 < aBound> FF7 aha one of the best RPG games to ever be made.
19:20 < blackgatonegro> anyway, gaming on linux, how many steam games get linuc releases?
19:21 < blackgatonegro> I honestly prefer Chronno Trigger.
19:21 < blackgatonegro> or whatever you write it
19:21 < aBound> Never played it my friend did, though FF7 is getting a remake.
19:21 < Armand> Why?
19:21 < AnAceFace> a lot of games
19:21 < Armand> What a crap game
19:22 < sumi> ikonia: what are the perms on your distro?
19:22 < mosh> aBound FF7 has been getting a remake for years. I wouldn't hold my breath.
19:22 < rascul> final fantasy stopped being good a long time ago
19:22 < ikonia> what does that matter /
19:23 < aBound> mosh, Why wouldn't you hold your breath when there's a video game trailer on YouTube.
19:23 < mosh> There's been one for years
19:23 < cowsay> Hey all. Suddenly my laptop (GalliumOS based on Ubuntu) started getting frequent performance hiccups but it doesn't seem to be hardware related in any way. RAM is fine, CPU is not spiking, etc. Any thoughts what this could be? Here's a recording of a youtube video freezing, but this happens with everything, even just typing freezes every few seconds.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAqYsm7mA6E
19:24 < Armand> aBound: I don't see why they would even bother.
19:24 < aBound> mosh, As far as I know this trailer was released 4 months ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-xvMsEw3LE
19:24 < cowsay> I suspect possibly X server bugging out but I really have no idea
19:24 < Armand> FF7 is easily one of the worst games ever made.
19:24 < blackgatonegro> bye bye
19:25 < sauvin> cowsay, IO binding?
19:25 < cowsay> sauvin, I checked iotop and nothing out of the ordinary
19:26 < aBound> Armand, With what FF7? It's an incredible game I'd say it would be worth it.
19:26 < Armand> Meh
19:26 < sauvin> You'd have to catch iotop output exactly at the time of a hiccup.
19:26 < cowsay> true
19:26 < cowsay> know of a better way to log spikes in IO activity?
19:26 < Armand> aBound: The Legend of Dragoon was MUCH better.. by a million miles.
19:27 < sauvin> I don't, unfortunately.
19:27 < cowsay> I may just have to suck it up and reinstall, just didn't want to have to do that
19:28 < aBound> Armand, I never played it but if I were to compare the two I'd still say FF7. :D
19:28 < Armand> Nah
19:28 < aBound> Tifa and her you know what. :P
19:29 < Armand> No, I don't know what.
19:29  * aBound *sigh* :P
19:30 < blackgatonegro> I even have the guide on how to do quite crazy things on FF /
19:32 < aBound> Armand, From my standpoint FF7 is a masterpiece it is also one of the most expensive RPG's created.
19:33 < Armand> But it's boring and cookie-cutter.
19:33 < sauvin> cowsay, is viewing YT videos the only time these freezes happen?
19:33 < aBound> Armand, Have you played the whole game? I'm curious teehee.
19:33 < Armand> Yeah.. and I've played most of the series.
19:34 < Armand> Generic
19:34 < aBound> Aha, I find that hard to believe not that you haven't played the whole game. Just the point of saying it's just downright not as good. :P
19:34 < aBound> I did enjoy FF8 as well.
19:34 < aBound> FF9 not so much.
19:36 < Oddity> FF9 was my favorite
19:37 < aBound> I think FF6 was another one of my favorites.
19:37 < donrobin> Is suse linux stil used in europe much?
19:38 < donrobin> What is the main distro in europe?
19:38 < cantbetouched> RMS is getting old folks
19:38 < cantbetouched> who will take care of freedom after him?
19:38 < markasoftware> gary johnson
19:38 < jatt> eric raymond
19:39 < emu_rider> Linus Torvalds
19:39 < blackgatonegro> funny enough some cookie games are quite adictive
19:40 < noodlepie> Larry Wall!
19:40 < aBound> Noooo, Larry Wall whatever happened to Perl 6.
19:42 < triceratux> donrobin: probably mx-17 or sparky or voyager or mageia or extix
19:44 < plain-user> in bash script, how can one feed the input from a file to a program (via variable) so that it is stopped or limited every 32 characters...
19:45 < blackgatonegro> gtg bye
19:49 < fendur> plain-user: can you preprocess it with sed?
19:49 < plain-user> Here is the code: https://paste.linux.community/view/db0f1308
19:49 < plain-user> fendur: probably yes...
19:49 < fendur>  sed -i -r "s/(.{32})/\1\n/g" someTextFile
19:50 < fendur> then run that file through a for loop
19:50 < fendur> do the thing on each line
19:50 < plain-user> will the for loop then pick up whatever sed is separating out of that hex stream?
19:52 < fendur> I need to check myself here. But one problem I'm thinking of is if there are already newlines in the file.
19:52 < Dan39> plain-user: maybe just do it in a better language like perl or python
19:54 < plain-user> fendur: i have deleted the newlines from the file. the file i am working on is a continous stream of hex. i do have a copy of a file that has CR's in it or rather 0a characters. but the input into -K has to be 32 characters strict.
19:55 < plain-user> Dan39: i would like to but don't know how haha ))
19:55 < fendur> I just also realized that for iterates over words, separated by spaces. But there may just be an environment variable that you need to change to "\n"
19:55 < plain-user> fendur: it says sed: no input files
19:55 < Dan39> plain-user: what are you trying to do?
19:55 < fendur> planetmaker: did you supply the file?
19:55 < fendur> plain-user: did you supply the file?
19:56 < plain-user> Please see the paste for the script
19:56 < plain-user> above
19:56 < plain-user> yes i did try cat file | sed thing and also tried sed thing <file
19:56 < Dan39> plain-user: can you explain better?
19:57 < revel> plain-user: You could just `sed thing file` as well, fyi.
19:57 < plain-user> revel: that's what i tried first and there's no output it seems.
19:58 < n-iCe> hi
19:58 < revel> Is this any different from when you try to run it with `cat file | sed thing` or `sed thing < file`?
19:58 < revel> Those should just read the file from stdin.
19:59 < plain-user> Dan39: i need to run an openssl line against a list of hex values. the -K switch has to be fed by 32 chars strict.
19:59 < Dan39> each line of file is the 32 character hex value?
19:59 < aBound> I am off, swoosh... :P
20:01 < plain-user> Dan39: continous file with no stopping characters. but i can reproduce the file so that it has stopping characters if that helps. i just didn't have much luck with the CR's
20:01 < Dan39> plain-user: ok
20:01 < hexnewbie> plain-user: It's not completely clear what you're doing, but it looks dangerous.
20:02 < Dan39> wonder that myself
20:02 < hexnewbie> plain-user: If that's related to the earlier question of padding to 16/32 characters, given that you're giving it as a key parameter, it's very dangerous. Look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_stretching
20:03 < hexnewbie> Er, wait, not that one
20:04 < hexnewbie> Point is, don't do your own cryptography. Ever.
20:04 < plain-user> i am learning the topic
20:04 < plain-user> it is an exercise
20:05 < plain-user> i'm doing it for the past 3 nights until late and finally got to the stage it's nearly working
20:05 < Dan39> plain-user: don't do it in bash
20:06 < plain-user> Dan39: I already noticed i need to move to higher level language. i am at script so far. but not very good at programming at all, takes forever....
20:06 < Dan39> ah
20:07 < hexnewbie> I'd try to avoid OpenSSL too (due to its horrendous interfaces that would make it harder to learn/use, not the history of security issues and bad code). But may not be a practical advise, given that higher level languages tend to default to that for their crypto (or even the bindings directly)
20:07 < plain-user> hexnewbie: would you use Gpgp instead?
20:08 < hexnewbie> plain-user: That would be a very different thing. What are you learning?
20:08 < plain-user> well, this is a puzzle to solve.
20:09 < ||JD||> is that an euphemism for homework?
20:09 < plain-user> once i get this done, i can hopefully pass and not pay 1K and have issues at work. then i will maybe later on get diploma and maybe have better life by earning more money (?).
20:09 < plain-user> :D
20:10 < plain-user> wait, i show you the whole thing, it is beautiful. few people from here contributed already.
20:10 < plain-user> i paste.
20:13 < hexnewbie> OpenSSL alternatives would be GnuTLS (popular go-to alternative, esp. with OpenSSL license issues), NSS (Firefox uses it), LibreSSL (a fork of OpenSSL, so doesn't count), and wolfSSL (I think used by Oracle builds of MySQL). Have only used OpenSSL in code, so can't vouch for any of them, I just hate working with OpenSSL. GnuPG or OpenSSH would do crypto, but for completely different tasks.
20:14 < hexnewbie> Uh? OpenSSL is a fork of SSLeay? I remember having problems with that one too.
20:17 < plain-user> https://paste.linux.community/view/904e858c  - that is the work i done for the past few days. please feel free to comment if you want...
20:18 < phinxy> Cant install equivs because apt is holding broken packages, kind of a catch-22
20:20 < plain-user> what about the certificate siging then, don't people use openssl usually to sign certs, or all those projects listed above produce certs that are standard?
20:20 < hexnewbie> plain-user: I do use openssl (binary or Python bindings) for that, yes. But I have to read the docs every time, because it's really non-intuitive.
20:22 < hexnewbie> Or rather, search the internet for ‘how to make SSL certificate’, or ‘sign with my CA’, since the docs aren't really good either
20:23 < plain-user> :)
20:24 < mawk> why can't I get routes that start with 0.0.0 ?
20:24 < mawk> every other route is working, but ip route get 0.0.0.42 fails with EINVAL
20:25 < mawk> this is mysterious
20:26  * xCrotz ready vps support Mining
20:27 < mawk> this is mysterious
20:27 < mawk> woops
20:27 < xCrotz> yeah
20:27 < rascul> that route thing is indeed weird, i wonder why it is
20:28 < hexnewbie> 0.0.0.0/8 is ‘this host on this network’, valid as a source, but not as destination
20:28 < xCrotz> I sell ocean ocean account with balance 100$
20:29 < hexnewbie> so it's normal that ip route would not be able to find any routes to it
20:29 < xCrotz> I sold it for 50$
20:29 < xCrotz> I sell ocean ocean account with balance 100$
20:30 < hexnewbie> I'm selling a $1 dollar bill for $100.
20:31 < rascul> hexnewbie interesting, i wasn't aware of 0.0.0.0/8 being dedicated for that. not sure if it's something i knew of back when i actually did a bunch of network stuff, though. it's defined in rfc 1122 section 3.2.1.3 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1122
20:31 < rascul> mawk see those above comments by hexnewbie and maybe the link i just pasted
20:32 < mawk> it's not that it's not able, it's just that the kernel refuses
20:32 < mawk> well maybe EINVAL is what happen when there is no route to the destination
20:32 < mawk> I see
20:32 < mawk> thanks
20:44 < f003brv> hi
20:44 < xCrotz> hiii
20:44 < f003brv> What are the best paint like tools for Linux or Mac? I have a dual boot
20:46 < rascul> pinta, kolourpaint, mtpaint, xpaint, gnome-paint
20:46 < f003brv> ty
20:46 < f003brv> many options there
20:46 < rascul> probably pinta is the one you want
20:47 < f003brv> btw are these for mac or linux?
20:47 < f003brv> or both
20:48 < rascul> i have no clue what is or isn't available for mac
20:48 < sauvin> I'm sure Mac has a few, no clue what they might be. What kind of "painting" you looking to do?
20:49 < klock> do we not use gimp anymore
20:49 < buffalodp> gimp2
20:49 < almostdvs> 'paint like tools'
20:49 < klock> i figured it was implied
20:50 < almostdvs> implies mspaint.  gimp is a photoshop like tool
20:50 < klock> i guess
20:50 < buffalodp> mspaint in a vm
20:50 < klock> it does painting :P
20:50 < buffalodp> I use photoshop 4.0
20:50 < f003brv> sauvin: just simple MS paint stuff
20:50 < almostdvs> yes the same way napalm does deforesting
20:50 < f003brv> I downloaded paintbrush and it was okay..
20:51 < buffalodp> on osX?
20:51 < sauvin> Gimp *can* do painting, in fact, 2.10 (the newest general release) has actual paint brushes, but I don't think I'd recommend gimp for somebody who's just looking for a spray can.
20:51 < almostdvs> https://alternativeto.net/software/microsoft-paint/?platform=mac
20:52 < buffalodp> so pinta is on both
20:53 < f003brv> well
20:53 < f003brv> so let me be more specific for what I want to do
20:54 < f003brv> simple logo design
20:54 < f003brv> I am not creating a new font or anything so really simple
20:54 < almostdvs> inkscape
20:54 < buffalodp> https://pinta-project.com/pintaproject/pinta/releases
20:54 < almostdvs> or krita
20:54 < f003brv> and then messing with the size and colors
20:54 < f003brv> kk ty
20:54 < f003brv> will look at all these
20:58 < iceCalt> Hey everyone. New laptop doesn't recognize the hdd that arrived with it. Just displays Generic HDD. Other laptop shows it without problem.
21:02 < plain-user> iceCalt: where do you see the Generic HDD error? in bios, when booting, or in OS?
21:03 < iceCalt> plain-user: when hooking it up on a running machine. It gets displayed with the other drives
21:03 < sauvin> Is it even an error?
21:03 < sauvin> And what is the "it" that does the "showing"?
21:04 < iceCalt> The hdd hooked up via external usb3 enclosure to the laptop
21:04 < sauvin> What is the "it" that does the "showing"?
21:04 < iceCalt> Showing up as Generic HDD on the computer. Unable to access
21:06 < sauvin> You're seeing this "error" in gparted, Nautilus, a CLI, a crystal ball?
21:06 < iceCalt> Desktop
21:06 < sauvin> "desktop"?
21:06 < iceCalt> Places > Computer (Desktop)
21:06 < sauvin> What OS?
21:06 < Dagmar> Don't forget the voices!
21:06 < iceCalt> Mint
21:07 < iceCalt> GParted on the other laptop doesn't show it. Just sda no sdb or similar
21:07 < sauvin> In other words, no device node.
21:07 < sauvin> Anything interesting in dmesg?
21:07 < iceCalt> If that's the correct term, then yes
21:07 < iceCalt> Let me check
21:08 < Dagmar> Unplug it, wait 10 seconds, replug it, then type `dmesg` to see what the kernel thought about it
21:09 < sauvin> If it shows nothing, wait another little while, repeat what Dagmar said in *another* port.
21:09 < iceCalt> It shows some stuff. Let me put into pastebin
21:09 < sauvin> Nononono, no pastebin! AGH!
21:09 < sauvin> Try termbin or zerobin or the pastebin site mentioned in the /topic
21:10 < sauvin> Anything but pastebin itself!
21:10 < Dan39> or just paste it here to spite sauvin :D
21:11 < sauvin> If he does, the voice that gave the order for the finger to pull the trigger will be silenced. }:<
21:11 < ayecee> ominous
21:11 < Dan39> do it! do it!
21:11 < iceCalt> wut. now it magically opened up a window
21:12 < iceCalt> https://paste.linux.community/view/f8b25a21
21:12 < iceCalt> I guess I can mark my issue as solved. Gonna wait some more time from now on.
21:13 < sauvin> Shouldn't take a lot of time, frankly. My USB drives register almost instantly.
21:14 < iceCalt> My other drive gets recognized instantly, too. It's just strange to me. At least I can use the drive that came with the laptop with intention, rather than finding an alternative.
21:14 < iceCalt> Thanks everyone!
21:16 < mawk> I get tons of call traces in my dmesg, saying "radeon 0000:01:00.0: swiotlb buffer is full (sz: 2097152 bytes)"
21:16 < mawk> googling this gives nothing except bug reports of the same thing
21:17 < Dagmar> It seems that someone installed an ATI video card in your computer.
21:17 < mawk> lol
21:17 < Dagmar> You should probably remove it before it gets any worse
21:17 < mawk> I got it for free, I wasn't gonna get picky
21:17 < sauvin> Remove it very carefully, and drain it in a pit lined at least a foot thick in finely ground gravel and limestone.
21:18 < Dagmar> I'll break it down into simple components for you
21:18 < mawk> but if that can reassure you there are occurences of this with Nvidia cards as well
21:18 < mawk> it doesn't crash the system, let's keep it like this
21:18 < Dagmar> nVidia users have problems like, "I don't want any proprietary code on my machine" or, "why can't I make nouveau piss off and not come back?"
21:19 < mawk> lol
21:19 < Dagmar> ATI users have problems that can only be expressed in algebraic theory
21:19 < mawk> I've only had ATI cards so far
21:19 < Dagmar> They work, or not, based on the phase of the moon and whether or not your personal karma is divisible by both 3 and 11
21:19 < sauvin> I expressed mine with the kind of language that gets a man's mouth washed out with battery acid.
21:20 < Dagmar> You can install the drivers twice in a row using the exact same steps and get different outcomes
21:20 < mawk> lol
21:20 < iceCalt> Don't install gpu drivers with newer kernels for amd
21:20 < iceCalt> That will most likely forces you to re-install your OS
21:20 < mawk> that's just black magic you're talking about iceCalt
21:20 < mawk> if something went wrong you uninstall it
21:21 < mawk> possibly from a live cd or a init=/bin/sh shell
21:21 < iceCalt> There was no fix for me at the time. I installed Mint on my gaming rig and 'installed' ati drivers. This caused Steam etc to break
21:22 < mawk> it seems C++17 is starting to take care of that terrible include system we've got left from C and before
21:23 < mawk> I have a __has_include macro to play with, like #if ! __has_include(<mylib/mylib.hh>) # error "please install libmylib-dev" #endif
21:23 < mawk> or to load a fallback
21:25 < revel> mawk: But that makes the assumption that the person uses Debian/Ubuntu :<
21:26 < mawk> yeah
21:26 < mawk> just add the other two conventions and you're done
21:27 < mawk> some modifications amount to changing a comma in the standard, and these things got research grants from the european union; it looks like a grant scam
21:35 < notmike> Why would anyone serious about what they do use Debian
21:35 < Dan39> notmike: why not?
21:35 < ayecee> nice cast
21:35 < ayecee> you got one
21:35 < revel> ayecee: What did he cast? Snare?
21:36 < ayecee> mordekai's magical tentacles
21:37 < revel> Oh, my. How do I get caught?
21:37 < mawk> I tried to do a regex in bash, then used $BASH_REMATCH to get the captured group
21:37 < ayecee> i've seen enough anime to know where this is going
21:37 < mawk> and this variable contains $BASH_REM
21:37 < mawk> that's extremely odd
21:38 < mawk> let's forget this
21:40 < candidat> hello guys
21:40 < revel> Hi.
21:42 < mrw0rm> hi guys! could somebody help me? I want to check values of X resources which is currently set in my system. Does somebody know how to do it?
21:42 < [R]> mrw0rm: what "X resources"
21:42 < Dan39> mrw0rm: what resources?
21:43 < mrw0rm> XTerm*.cutNewLine
21:43 < [R]> people actually use xterm? /me giggles
21:43 < mawk> mrw0rm: xrdb -query
21:44 < mrw0rm> [R]: yep :D
21:44 < mrw0rm> mawk: thanks!
21:45 < enelar> Guys, im using manjaro, and im looking where i could ask bluetooth related question
21:45 < [R]> enelar: well you could just use a non prebroken dist...
21:45 < sauvin> You COULD ask HERE, but have you tried to find no Manjaro-specific channel?
21:45 < enelar> Its dead
21:45 < sauvin> So, what's the question?
21:45 < [R]> HAHA
21:46 < enelar> please advice me something (im not ready for pure arch yet)
21:46 < Dan39> you are ready
21:46 < Dan39> do it
21:46 < [R]> enelar: you say that as if arch is any better...
21:47 < Dan39> dont listen to this hater
21:47 < enelar> Seems like my mouse device drops paired state each time it goes to sleep. So linux(gnome-bluetooth) unable to autoreconnect (which seems correct). And i had to open GUI / console, and do manual connection sequence. Meanwhile it automaticly pair with device, and discover bluetooth services (mouse controller)
21:47 < malina> arch was great once..
21:47 < enelar> I could possibly write script which does the same, but is there some bluetooth.conf tweaks which would lead to the same results?
21:47 < Dan39> please do explain malina
21:47 < [R]> malina: if you say so
21:48 < malina> but ... ,p manjaro is a laugh though  ^^
21:48 < enelar> damn ubuntu -> kubuntu whatever -> fedora -> centos, its quite a way. give me some time guys
21:49 < enelar> i tried to install arch on virtualbox several times, its just wont boot up. im succeed to built gnome3 on gentoo, but cant install arch >_<
21:49 < Dan39> ...
21:49 < Dan39> [R]: what distro do you use?
21:49 < buffalodp> gentoo was such a waste of time
21:49 < [R]> Dan39: why does it matter what i use?
21:49 < dirdel> vb
21:49 < malina> well to be fair, the arch install is pretyt much the easiest  simplest there is
21:50 < buffalodp> as soon as I installed it the computer broke
21:50 < Dan39> [R]: why so defensive... lol
21:50 < sauvin> To be even fairer, Ubuntu was a couple of mouse clicks and a trip to the coffee pot to install.
21:50 < malina> ubuntu's is slow as damn hell
21:50 < malina> lol, and will crahs half the time, trying ot use it on a server is hopeless
21:50 < Dan39> [R]: because you are giving advice on distros, it makes sense we would want to know what you use yourself
21:50 < [R]> malina: sounds like just need to install differneret software... linux is liniux
21:50 < malina> unless you do the minimal net install, you will be somewhat fine then
21:51 < enelar> meh whole deb family just broken. i want to update and receive yet working distro
21:51 < sauvin> malina, your experience differs from mine.
21:51 < malina> ya, the apt is the slowest package manager on the planet.. that is withought a doubt
21:51 < sauvin> It's also the most reliable, in my experience.
21:51 < enelar> sauvin, its working, it just wont reconnect!
21:51 < enelar> i see a lot of forum requests about ubuntu, with no answers
21:51 < malina> but ok, ubuntu piggybacked on deb to be automagical, not for their speed , efficiency or anyhting else.
21:51 < sauvin> enelar, I'm not ignoring you, I just have zero experience with bluetooth mouses.
21:52 < enelar> hoped somebody at irc would help me
21:52 < sauvin> malina: stability.
21:52 < malina> you MUST be joking me?
21:52 < enelar> ye, its about 'few clicks'
21:52 < dannylee> ok i know that microsoft spend millions of dollors,,just to mess up linux..and there updates
21:52 < sauvin> I am not joking.
21:52 < [R]> sauvin: mice*
21:52 < enelar> malina, maybe it just isnt virtualbox compatible
21:53 < sauvin> [R], for the biological mammalian rodents, yes, mice. Opinions seem to vary where the peripheral is concerned.
21:53 < malina> dannylee, microsoft products will never be any close to any *nix*, but if that's what one has tried, no wonder one might think something as poor as ubuntu
21:53 < malina> enelar, erm.. well dunno, I 've had many arch vm's never was na issue
21:53 < dannylee> that why i just don`t do updates...openSuse is the rite choice
21:53 < [R]> sauvin: llol
21:53 < enelar> btw between gentoo and everything, performance matters. but at the end, yep, waste of time
21:53 < malina> you do manage to insert the 'iso ' file into the virtual machine yes?
21:53 < malina> and boot it?
21:54 < enelar> and i finnally beat decent wine gaming performance out manjaro
21:54 < enelar> arch/aur seems the most completed set of software for me, including all the drivers etc
21:54 < Dan39> sounds like [R] uses windows at home
21:54 < malina> or you have problems ? I mean I think it might be a case of pebkac tbh.
21:54 < [R]> Dan39: actually, i use MSDOS 5.0
21:54 < Dan39> very nice
21:54 < enelar> malina, yep, run instalation, and after reboot woops kernel panic
21:54 < sauvin> Oh, man, DOS 5.0 was an epiphany.
21:55 < n-iCe> has anyone set a tablet as a laptop?
21:55 < mouses> all this mice/mouses talk
21:55 < mouses> :)
21:55 < enelar> after i fix those, gnome still wont boot up
21:55 < enelar> i know))
21:55 < malina> well I never had problesm with any arch kernels in virtualbox if that's what you used.
21:55 < [R]> n-iCe: what does that even mean?
21:55  * sauvin grabs the D-CON
21:55 < enelar> ill try again, thanks
21:55 < sauvin> [R]: reading comprehension, much?
21:55 < enelar> i heard somebody said arch sucks, which one is better tho?
21:55 < malina> anyway, maybe their kernels lately are sh*t, what do I know. I don't use it .
21:55 < [R]> sauvin: ok, mr genius... what does it mean
21:55 < malina> mine.
21:55 < malina> :)
21:56 < sauvin> It means using a tablet as a desktop.
21:56 < sauvin> Or laptop, or whatever.
21:56 < [R]> lol
21:56 < enelar> what should i use instead? im looking for complete set of repos, so i wont consistently patch/repack everything for myown
21:56 < [R]> enelar: distrowattch has a list of major dists
21:56 < enelar> i love you to [R]
21:56 < malina> I used arch for almost a decade, it's very nice I think, and if others arebetter, apart from my own , I think fedora is upot here , suse and if you like ubuntu, they are ok, just very, very slow.
21:56 < sauvin> enelar, what makes you say you're not ready for arch if you're cathected to an arch derivative?
21:57 < Dan39> enelar: i love arch personally, it seems just a couple in here the dont like it, without reason
21:57 < sauvin> malina, ubuntu is still faster than my fingers when I'm typing.
21:57 < enelar> sauvin, cause i heard that it stands for easier learning curve for arch, that's whats i looked for
21:57 < [R]> sauvin: is it like the madonna song? faster than the speed of light...
21:57 < sauvin> enelar, gots some VMs handy?
21:57 < malina> on distrowatch the top 50-100 should probably have 'full repos'
21:58 < revel> Full repos?
21:58 < malina> guess your fingers aren't too great though the, sauvin.
21:58 < enelar> their slogan 'Enjoy the simplicity', thats why, actually
21:58 < revel> Does "full repos" mean "don't have to instal stuff from 3rd party repos" (i.e AUR)? :D
21:58 < malina> whose?
21:58 < sauvin> Yeah, you're right, I'm relatively slow. Some of the girls can do 200 WPM, and I'm stuck with a slow-as-molasses 150 or so.
21:59 < enelar> revel, no, it means that i have EVERYTHING in there, and no need to add other repos by my own
21:59 < malina> well, at least you can make molasses bread
21:59 < malina> which is healthy and really nice.
21:59 < [R]> enelar: no dist has everything in the world in their repo
21:59 < revel> enelar: Isn't that what I just said?
21:59 < sauvin> Will  you shut the hell up!? Now I have to go COOK something!
22:00 < enelar> malina, i dunno, on ubuntu there a lot of the times you install something and it just wont work, because broken .so links and so on
22:00 < malina> enelar, suse, fedora, ubuntu, mint, debian, arch, sabayon, whatever floats your boat. if you can't get the iso workikng in virtualbox, then ye.. mint/ubuntu I think sounds about right.
22:00 < enelar> on fedora i had to repack some deb to rpm. because it isnt supported
22:00 < enelar> on arch i have aur, which doing the same, but for me
22:00 < [R]> ive never heard of "broken so links" on ubuntu
22:00 < enelar> it could download .deb, built and repack
22:00 < enelar> single line
22:00 < [R]> lol
22:00 < sauvin> enelar, I've never had that problem, but I stick with what's in the repos. I don't install third-party stuff.
22:01 < enelar> broken .so, you never met those?
22:01 < malina> damn enelar.. I haveb't been on arch for a year or so, moved on to better stuff personally, but broken liubs does sound like a partial upgrade foobar?
22:01 < enelar> for example phantomjs 3.0
22:01 < Dan39> sorry to hear that sauvin
22:01 < malina> you mean from their aur thing?
22:01 < enelar> i mean you always fight with you OS, instead of using it
22:01 < [R]> enelar: what about phantomjs 3.0?
22:01 < enelar> it obviosly could be solved, but it consumes a lot of the time
22:01 < malina> ye you have to use linux , that is to patch and so on.. you saif you didn't want, then you want something like you said.. ubuntu .. it's damn slow
22:01 < sauvin> enelar explains why. When I DO install third party stuff, I don't just .deb it. I build it, making sure I have the -dev libs needed.
22:02 < enelar> they requested some .so on my ubuntu 17.10
22:02 < malina> but some of that slowness luckily is to help you
22:02 < enelar> so i had to use docker instead, .etcetc
22:02 < [R]> enelar: what?
22:02 < sauvin> [R], he's installing .debs without checking for dependencies.
22:02 < [R]> and thats ubuntus fault?
22:02 < enelar> man
22:02 < revel> Don't .debs include dependency info in them?
22:02 < enelar> damn, i have those libs in my system
22:03 < enelar> but their version just isn't compatible with some app
22:03 < sauvin> revel, sometimes yes, sometimes no.
22:03 < [R]> enelar: yeah... if you install precompiled crap not meant for your dist... tahts going to happen
22:03 < malina> I think arch is a little slow and it's sooo all the time network dl upgrade.. an annoyance, but it still is of the most used distros, the leanest, I'd say. Fedora isn't shabby, suse I haven't tried in a while but used to be great too.
22:03 < enelar> so i have to install several .so versions
22:03 < [R]> enelar: thats not ubuntu's fault
22:03 < malina> well enelar, maybe you should try macs
22:03 < enelar> no, it wont compile, cause in their github they said they need exact version
22:03 < malina> I only seen them a few times, but they have one button and apparently everyone who uses them think they are great.
22:03 < enelar> like qt4 qt5
22:03 < enelar> its ok
22:03 < [R]> lol
22:04 < enelar> but for idoono glibs1.0.1
22:04 < enelar> and glibs 1.1.0
22:04 < revel> Well, installing binary crap and expecting it to work isn't too great.
22:04 < enelar> its sucks
22:04 < [R]> enelar: and what does this have to dowtih "broken so links"? lol
22:04 < revel> Unless it's statically linked or something.
22:04 < sauvin> It has to do with understanding nothing of system architecture.
22:04 < sauvin> And you want to move to arch?
22:04 < Psi-Jack> Heh
22:05 < sauvin> I salute your courage.
22:05 < revel> Or has some LD_LIBRARY_PATH/LD_PRELOAD stuff.
22:05 < enelar> it means, for example some .deb (which btw pre-comipled in distro), require /lib/blabla.so.14.0.1, and i have /lib/blabla.so.17.0.3
22:05 < enelar> like netbeans
22:05 < enelar> *in repo
22:05 < [R]> enelar: right... tahts called using a binary not meant for your dist
22:05 < [R]> enelar: that will happen on 100% of dists
22:05 < [R]> not an ubuntu only problem
22:05 < Psi-Jack> Very /SELDOM/ does anything need a specific exact version of a library.
22:05 < malina> that would be a good one though. that's what people do.. use the archwiki, gentoo's is also good but once when arch was kiss, it becamew big due to the wiki.. now no longer kiss, it has the wiki and ppl will follow
22:05 < swift110> hey all
22:05 < enelar> i dunno, i never met a single issue witch arch
22:05 < Psi-Jack> Major version, maybe a minor version, but a build version not quite so much,.
22:06 < enelar> *manjaro, whatever
22:06 < [R]> sounds like you're not installing precompield crap not meant for your dist then
22:06 < Psi-Jack> Manjaro is not Arch.
22:06 < malina> you just said you can't boot in ever in a virtual machine?
22:06 < sauvin> What CAN happen, and what frustrates me from time to time, is when something requires lib >= $VERSION.
22:06 < malina> wtf?
22:06 < malina> anyway arch is about as secure as windows.. that's quiter shoddy
22:06 < revel> enelar: Is that because you're letting AUR PKGBUILDs compile the stuff for your machine now instead of downloading precompiled binaries now? :D
22:06 < enelar> lib >= version is fine, but lib >= $version && lib > $version
22:06 < malina> not sure if too many of the other distros are too hot either on that.
22:06 < Psi-Jack> malina: Security has nothing to do with it.
22:07 < enelar> revel, yp
22:07 < malina> it has everything to do with it if I say, _security_ is crap on arch
22:07 < revel> Well... Maybe you should've been doing that before as well...?
22:07 < Psi-Jack> IN fact, one could say, by technicality, since Arch comes with no services installed by default... It's inherently /more/ secure, because it's not running anything.
22:07 < malina> I don't even know what you are discussing.
22:07 < Dan39> malina: why is security crap on arch?
22:07 < malina> but I , for sure, mentioned security :)
22:07 < Psi-Jack> Dan39: Lack of knowledge.
22:07 < malina> because it is.
22:07 < Dan39> do you have link to article on this?
22:07 < [R]> Psi-Jack: if you're computer is running,  you better go catch it
22:07 < Psi-Jack> [R]: Heh
22:07 < enelar> well, you can achieve security with arch, but im personally fine with what i do
22:08 < sauvin> enelar, so, install arch into a VM and tinker with it.
22:08 < enelar> i dont use canonical / redhad unknown bins
22:08 < enelar> instead i use stuff from random folks
22:08 < Dan39> Psi-Jack: what do you mean? only thing i can think of is using AUR
22:08 < enelar> and nothing from those executed as root
22:08 < malina> don't worry, it's enelar, it's not just arch which is a rustbucket for security ^^
22:08 < sauvin> Yeah, that's secure. Stuff from random folks.
22:08 < Psi-Jack> Dan39: I mean, malina is talking out of his arse without facts.
22:08 < malina> her*
22:08 < malina> and sure..
22:08 < Dan39> oh
22:08 < Dan39> this place is a shit show today
22:09 < sauvin> malina, what's your favourite distro?
22:09 < Dan39> no help givin, just people hating on this and that
22:09 < Psi-Jack> ^
22:09 < malina> I don't sit in irc #linux, and hold lectures on various things which are well known, at least to some.
22:09 < malina> my own
22:09 < malina> of the known ones?
22:09 < malina> arch, is what I used to use
22:09 < enelar> and btw manjaro #1 on distrowatch
22:09 < candidat> will you marry me malina ?
22:09 < enelar> <3
22:10 < Dan39> please do, so you guys can go on your honey moon and leave us alone
22:10 < malina> manjaro is shit.. if enelar meant manjaro, I agree, the one time I tried it some years ago, in a virtual machine or booting form the iso, it was all so slow and just like what the heck is this.
22:10 < sauvin> Heh... have a care with that. The word "malina" means "witch" in some Romance language dialects.
22:10 < [R]> enelar: the "ranking" on distrowatch doesnt mean anything
22:10 < candidat> sauvin lol the witch doctor
22:10 < [R]> enelar: its just page views
22:10 < sauvin> Malina seems to value speed above just about anything.
22:10 < [R]> enelar: i.e. people are curious to read about garbage
22:10 < enelar> how i should decide then?
22:10 < [R]> enelar: there is a list of major dists
22:11 < Psi-Jack> enelar: Personal use and preferences.
22:11 < malina> no candidat, I doubt anyone here would attract me much; as no one here strikes me as very 'independent thinkers' which do anything but rectite the same crap they once were recited. I find that a nuisance and certainly nto attractive ^^
22:11 < enelar> wikipedia says ubuntu is the greatest thing in the world
22:11 < enelar> its hard to understand
22:11 < Psi-Jack> Who cares what others think?
22:11 < Psi-Jack> What matters is what YOU think.
22:11 < [R]> enelar: i dont see the word "greatest" on the page...
22:11 < enelar> like linux mint, seriosly
22:11 < candidat> malina maybe if i was a rockstar it would have been better ?
22:11 < revel> malina: You forgot to call us "sheeple" :P
22:11 < malina> you SHEEPLE!!!
22:11 < malina> ,)
22:12 < candidat> SHEEPLE !
22:12 < malina> bleat
22:12 < revel> Baa.
22:12 < revel> Feed me flesh.
22:12 < Psi-Jack> No braiinz?
22:12 < malina> honestly, no one buys that whole bleat business outside of Britain
22:12 < malina> .. like ever.
22:12 < revel> No, I don't want mad cow disease.
22:12 < enelar> from my memories ubuntu was always far away from latest packages versions, at least
22:12 < enelar> like pgsql 9.1 while we have 9.5, so on
22:13 < enelar> correct me if im wrong
22:13 < Dan39> enelar: haha that's not far off.
22:13 < malina> you said you get .so issues on arch but want rthe latest packages? what you want is NO issues , package version is irrelevant.
22:13 < [R]> oh no! NOT THE LATEST
22:13 < Psi-Jack> Dan39: In PostgreSQL that's pretty far off. :)
22:13 < Dan39> oh, touche
22:13 < Dan39> with the `
22:13 < Psi-Jack> Because, minor releases of PostgreSQL have big changes.
22:13 < enelar> men, if its linux kernel security updates, i want latest
22:13 < enelar> dont you?
22:14 < Psi-Jack> Not always.
22:14 < [R]> enelar: any sane dist backportst kernel patches
22:14 < pnbeast> [R], you know you want it.
22:14 < sauvin> enelar, there's a reason for running dists that carry older packages. They're *tested* and generally very stable.
22:14 < Dan39> enelar: security updates should be patched into all the versions of the distro if still "supported"
22:14 < Psi-Jack> Latest kernel updates may cause problems, especially with the whole Spectre and now Spectre-NG issue about.
22:14 < malina> enelar, sure. but doesn't do much if all you have is kernel panic
22:15 < revel> I believe the Spectre/Meltdown fixes caused more problems on older kernels where the fixes weren't backported very well (or, technically, at all?).
22:15 < Psi-Jack> That said, distros like Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, CentOS do in fact have kernel updates relating to security, and usually VERY quickly after testing.
22:15 < Psi-Jack> With Arch you pretty much get the latest distro within a day of release usually, and linux-lts the same.
22:15 < sauvin> And generally fairly often. I think the updater pestered me on Ubuntu 16.04 (now a couple years old) to allow updates every night for the past couple of weeks.
22:16 < Psi-Jack> Actual Arch, not knock-offs like Manjaro.
22:16 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: I've been seeing linux and linux-lts updates in Arch like every other day. LOL
22:16 < sauvin> Yeah. Flurry of stuff going on.
22:17 < enelar> well, that's the best for personal use
22:17 < Psi-Jack> Especially now, with Spectre and Spectre-NG.
22:17 < enelar> its not servers
22:17 < Psi-Jack> And Ryzenfall etc.
22:17 < revel> 4.17 coming soon. Still holding out for Linux 4.20
22:17 < Psi-Jack> I miss Linux 3.11 for Workgroups. :)
22:17 < sauvin> I'll cheerfully admit I don't use Ubuntu on servers I care about. For those, I use Debian.
22:18 < Psi-Jack> I simply just don't use Ubuntu. At all. Nor will I ever.
22:18 < enelar> vast about of user's tolerate BSOD'S, and you tell me that i should be scared of update to the latest before SOMEBODY ELSE does it
22:18 < turkeyhand> I started with mageia
22:18 < sauvin> Psi-Jack, that's funny. I seem to recall you actually having said you've used Ubuntu on servers, and could recommend it.
22:18 < turkeyhand> I never thought to install ubuntu and never have
22:18 < revel> enelar: BSOD? On Linux?
22:18 < turkeyhand> not out of any moral reason
22:18 < enelar> with fedora i always were at rawhide. cause if you get kernel panic - load prev kernel. thats it
22:18 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: That was ages ago. Literally ages. :)
22:18 < enelar> i mean most of PC/laptop users are on windows
22:18 < turkeyhand> so you literally have used and recommended ubuntu
22:18 < enelar> so kernel panics is not a problem too
22:19 < ayecee> metaphorically used and recommended
22:19 < sauvin> Vocabulary lesson for the day: What was once the BSOD for Windows is now the kernel panic for Linux. I actually SAW a kernel panic once, think it was five or six years ago.
22:19 < turkeyhand> abstractly
22:19 < Dan39> you need to get out more sauvin :p
22:19 < enelar> meh, i saw a lot of them, cause of btrfs and other staff
22:19 < revel> I think I've had a grand total of one kernel panic that wasn't caused by something like ^D with init=/bin/sh or doing `kill -9 1` after attaching strace to init, and it was on Ubuntu.
22:19 < diogenese> I use to get an email from elvis after a kernel panic
22:20 < enelar> each time you trying to install ATI drivers on fedora, you would probably meet it
22:20 < pnbeast> Elvis needs boats.
22:20 < enelar> so on
22:20 < noodlepie> kernel panics almost always occur because of disk misconfiguration when mounting /
22:20 < malina> premium service eh
22:20 < turkeyhand> I had a kernel panic trying to install kali to an external
22:20 < sauvin> Ah, yes. Kali.
22:20 < Psi-Jack> Kali, nuff said.
22:20 < enelar> lol
22:20 < Dan39> kool guy here
22:20 < pnbeast> No, not kali.  Kali is MOAR STABLER and L33T
22:20 < malina> +1 pnbeast
22:21 < turkeyhand> until I found it was mostly useless and illegal in the place I just moved to
22:21 < malina> I am glad someone still has half a brain
22:21 < noodlepie> It, the kernel, will panic if it can't set the / root partition.
22:21 < Dan39> that k was accidental haha
22:21 < turkeyhand> and wifi is mostly free everywhere anyway
22:21 < sauvin> Where is Kali "illegal"?
22:21 < pnbeast> malina, I wish I could tell if you're being serious or not.  I certainly wasn't.
22:21 < turkeyhand> USING other poeple's wireless is illegal
22:21 < malina> ...
22:21 < [R]> turkeyhand: how does that make kali illegal?
22:21 < malina> and there you lost it.. and you were doing so well. :/
22:21 < sauvin> Somebody needs to tell Comcast that.
22:21 < turkeyhand> kali might even be illegal here?
22:21 < malina> what do you think the +1 there entailed?
22:21 < [R]> turkeyhand: its just software...
22:22 < turkeyhand> germany has tons of weird rules I'm not used to yet
22:22 < enelar> well, if oneday ubuntu would have great wiki, where i can easily find solution on my non trivial question. i might consider it. like i did with arch: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/bluetooth#Bluetoothctl
22:22 < revel> turkeyhand: Does it distribute copyrighted stuff like Adobe Flash or something? Why would it be illegal?
22:22 < sauvin> Germany hasn't outlawed Kali.
22:22 < enelar> i just dont like running cron job, and tried to tweak conf's
22:22 < turkeyhand> I don't know. I said might be.
22:22 < enelar> thats why im here
22:22 < revel> Kali itself is definitely illegal. Using it in some ways could be.
22:22 < pnbeast> I heard they're sick of all the newbies on IRC using it, though, so they're thinking about requiring a license if you want to run it.
22:22 < malina> I was being serious in  adding to your sarcastic notion, sensing half the 'kali moar 1337' is laughable, yes.
22:22 < enelar> but even this three line isn't possible with ubuntu
22:22 < revel> s/definitely definitely not/
22:22 < revel> Close enuff.
22:22 < pnbeast> malina, cool!
22:23 < [R]> revel: anything thats on kali you can run on any dist
22:23 < revel> [R]: I know.
22:23 < turkeyhand> just installing the tools in the distro you use is a better idea than kali
22:23 < turkeyhand> jinx
22:23 < turkeyhand> this is old hat
22:23 < revel> And using the tools it has on any other dist in certain ways can be illegal as well.
22:23 < turkeyhand> I view it as breaking into someone's house and sniffing their underpants
22:23 < pnbeast> [R], you'll never get half the driver issues, never see the panics, etc., on other distros.  kali is one of the premier teaching distros, about as good as arch.
22:23 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm...
22:23 < [R]> pnbeast: hah
22:23 < sauvin> o.O
22:23 < turkeyhand> and jerking off to pictures of their kids
22:24 < turkeyhand> that's what I see kali and it's users as
22:24 < Psi-Jack> ...
22:24 < Dan39> people aren't cracking wpa2 yet, are they?
22:24 < Psi-Jack> turkeyhand: Ahem...
22:24 < pnbeast> What?  That went in an odd direction.  Do you have something to tell us, turkeyhand?
22:24 < Dan39> wtf turkeyhand
22:24 < revel> Yeah. Did you sneak into your neighbour's house, sniff his/her underpants, steal pictures of his/her children and then jerk off to them?
22:25 < turkeyhand> no, someone who lived in my apartment basically did that
22:25 < revel> Cool.
22:25 < candidat> did you took selfies with him ?
22:25 < revel> Did you share?
22:25 < turkeyhand> that guy had to have surgery when he tried it on someone else
22:25 < pnbeast> You wanna get out of the section 8 housing, turkeyhand.
22:25 < Sitri> Wasn't WPA2 already cracked?
22:25 < Psi-Jack> Sitri: Not entirely no.
22:26 < Psi-Jack> But WPA3 is right around the corner.
22:26 < [R]> just around the wifi bend...
22:26 < turkeyhand> a broken orbital socket is really serious apparently. your eyeball socket caves in
22:26 < Psi-Jack> Yet the WIFI Alliance is "doing it wrong" (tm) (c) again.
22:26 < Dan39> i know there was some small exploits, and i believe firmware updates fixed them, i dont remember specifically what, but sure wasn't full cracking like WEP
22:26 < sauvin> I believe WPA2 *is* cracked, but that's not to say that anybody with a cheap Walmart laptop is going to be able to run around breaking into his neighbour's wifis just doing some casual wardriving.
22:26 < Psi-Jack> Designing the WPA3 spec behind closed doors, yet again.
22:26 < enelar> alright that was fun, thank you a lot, have a great day everyone!
22:27 < Sitri> https://9to5mac.com/2017/10/16/wifi-wpa2-hacked/
22:27 < MrElendig> sauvin: actually a cheap walmart laptop would work fine, since you can go and get wpa2 cracked as a online service
22:27 < MrElendig> (yes, that really exists)
22:27 < sauvin> Heh.
22:27 < Sitri> Looks like it's a protocol weakness, yay...
22:27 < Psi-Jack> KRACK, yeah. But that's been mitigated already.
22:27 < turkeyhand> every place with client data I've ever been to or seen has that stuff far away from wifi
22:28 < sauvin> I use wifi at home a lot, but my primary machines are on cat5 exclusively.
22:28 < MrElendig> the online service came into being before the krack exploit
22:28 < sauvin> Things like paying bills, watching bank accounts and et cetera on the phones and tablets are OUT of the question.
22:29  * pnbeast smiles as he wraps another inductive listener around sauvin's ethernet cables.
22:29 < ntd> still you carry it around with you?
22:29 < sauvin> pnbeast, there's no such thing as absolute security, but nobody's gonna wardrive my wired connections.
22:30 < ntd> document your life with it, trust it with your conversations and other interactions?
22:30 < sauvin> ntd, welcome to the modern world. What alternative do you propose?
22:31 < ntd> dumb phone (supporting later advancements in network security), camera, laptop?
22:31 < sauvin> Yeah, right, I'm going to lug all that stuff around in my back pocket.
22:32 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: How about just in the sole of your shoe?
22:32 < sauvin> Psi-Jack, I tried to invent such a thing. Would you believe I only missed by this much? ><
22:33 < Psi-Jack> heh
22:33 < ntd> so because of convenience you trust it with most stuff, just not the stuff other people already have a copy of?
22:33 < ntd> sweet
22:33 < sauvin> They problem with shoe phones is that they break when I kick some idiot in the head. Idiots can have amazingly hard heads.
22:34 < ntd> so do the people who kick others in the head
22:34 < sauvin> ntd, like I said, welcome to the modern world. Remember what the Minister said when he launched an inquisition: "You have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide".
22:34 < ntd> and you'll never expect the spanish inquisition
22:35 < sauvin> I'm not afraid of some fool wearing a red cape and wielding a dish drier rack.
22:35 < sauvin> (dryer? Hrm.... my English ain't perfect or certain, either)
22:36 < ntd> nah, better let some dude in a hoodie with an app wrangle all the info out of you by other means
22:36 < sauvin> It's a probablistic thing. If you're a high profile person, yeah, you've got some worries. Joe Sixpack probably doesn't.
22:37 < sauvin> What's buggersome is that most folks don't seem to know what a phish attack looks like.
22:37 < ntd> so bad shit doesn't happen to good people?
22:37 < sauvin> What part of "probablistic" was too elusive?
22:38 < ntd> i just asked a question alluding to the fact that the prob of bad shit happening to joe sixpack is existent
22:38 < ntd> too elusive?
22:39 < ntd> rather, the bad shit i'm talking about *is* gonna happen to joe sixpack because he isn't the inquisitive type
22:40 < jaggz> I pop up a new konsole and run screen and it just returns to my prompt (won't run screen) with no errors
22:40 < sauvin> And so you're saying that Joe Sixpack needs to lug around a dumb phone, a camera and a laptop wherever he goes?
22:40 < ntd> no
22:40 < jaggz> it turns out, it starts new screen sessions in my other terminal running screen
22:40 < ntd> that's you trying to pull a fast one
22:41 < sauvin> No, I just have a great deal of trouble talking to people who seem to think only in absolutes.
22:41 < ntd> yeah, some people won't understand what that means and will think you just won "the argument", right?
22:42 < sauvin> Nope. A real argument occurs between two people who recognise and interact with the same reality.
22:42 < ntd> why does this remind me of the way trump roasted rubio in that debate
22:43 < ntd> rhetorical question, btw
22:43 < sauvin> I wouldn't know. I don't follow American politics or political figures.
22:44 < jaggz> oh.. screen -m forces a new one.. I can't figure out where it's "seeing" the other session though
22:44 < revel> jaggz: I think you need to pass -attach or something.
22:44 < sauvin> jaggz, try an screen -ls
22:45 < renn0xtk9> any reason why linux would stop to detect my dvi screen ?
22:45 < renn0xtk9> (secod screen)
22:45 < pnbeast> renn0xtk9, if it *did* stop, then the answer is pretty clearly "yes".
22:47 < renn0xtk9> pnbeast It did stop becasuye it says "DVI no signal" and then entering in low power mode. Force powering it up (by pressing button) will do the same
22:47 < renn0xtk9> so the quesion is why it stop to send dvi signal
22:47 < pnbeast> renn0xtk9, excellent!  We have established one answer, already!
22:47 < pnbeast> renn0xtk9, next, run xrandr and wiggle all the cables a lot.  Do both, intermingled.  You get the idea, no?
22:48 < [R]> pnbeast: wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle, yeah
22:48 < pnbeast> renn0xtk9, also, check your log files, especially the X logs.
22:48 < renn0xtk9> some more infos: I had KDE NEon as distro. dual screen worked well, I dual boot ubuntu 18.04, login , dual screen works well there, restart dual screen aint' working both in KDE neon and ubunt 18.04
22:48 < renn0xtk9> xrandr --auto no effect
22:48 < renn0xtk9> lspci: no sign of dvi screen
22:48 < rascul> check cables and connections
22:49 < pnbeast> I said that!  I said it first!  I win!
22:49 < MrElendig> lspci doesn't list dvi ports and the like
22:49 < rascul> pnbeast is the weiner
22:49 < pnbeast> I am the... wait, what?
22:49 < renn0xtk9> it is already checked
22:49 < MrElendig> you wein one eurovision
22:49 < pnbeast> Ha, now he's your problem, rascul.
22:49 < MrElendig> just one
22:49 < rascul> renn0xtk9 try swapping the cables
22:49 < renn0xtk9> MrElendig,  which comment could list it ?
22:50 < rascul> then try swapping the monitors and cables again
22:50 < MrElendig> xrandr with no args?
22:50 < MrElendig> also, what hardware is this? some crappy optimus laptop`
22:50 < MrElendig> s/`/?/
22:50 < MrElendig> or igp + dedicated card? or are both outputs on the same card?
22:51 < renn0xtk9> https://pastebin.com/AZepfpEf
22:52  * MrElendig can't open pastebin.com
22:52 < Dan39> fine, ill copy it into here for you
22:52 < revel> No.
22:52 < jaggz> revel, sauvin: from a non-screen prompt, 'screen' normally runs a whole new session.  If you're IN a session it'll pop open up a new screen window within the current session.  Twice recently I've encountered that running it from a fresh non-screen terminal just returns to the prompt, and it's opened up a new screen window in one of my existing sessions...
22:52 < Dan39> max@zalman:~$ xrandr
22:52 < Dan39> Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1440 x 900, maximum 8192 x 8192
22:52 < Dan39> .. jk
22:53 < rascul> MrElendig here's the same paste http://termbin.com/owar
22:53 < jaggz> screen -ls does list my other sessions (2 of them).  (Now it's 3, since screen -m got my new session up)
22:53 < revel> I'll be honest, I don't even use screen, I use tmux.
22:53 < Dan39> https://ptpb.pw/1fpT
22:53 < jaggz> revel, nod.. thanks.  I stuck with screen because I attach from multiple places and screen keeps the prior term's size.. although I should just get used to detaching the remote each time
22:54 < jaggz> (tmux forces its size to the minimum-attached terminal's rows/cols)
22:54 < renn0xtk9> https://www.gigabyte.com/fr/Motherboard/GA-B250M-DS3H-rev-10#kf moteherboard, it has vga output, dvi and HDMI 1.4
22:54 < revel> jaggz: You can detach other tmux instances with ctrl+B D (capitalized, important)
22:55 < Dan39> capital B too...?
22:56 < Dan39> well it works with capital B, i'll be damned.
22:56 < Dan39> though lowercase is fine too :P
22:56 < renn0xtk9> other important thing I notice
22:56 < renn0xtk9> going into the bios I had dual screen working
22:56 < renn0xtk9> no no more
22:56 < revel> Oh, err, capitalized D.
22:57 < renn0xtk9> could it be that this new ubuntuu change whaterver in the firmware/chipset/I don't know what?
22:58 < jaggz> Dan39, I think there's technically no actual capital CTRL chars
22:58 < jaggz> locally a system can monitor kb of course
22:58 < Dan39> i was actually thinking that after i said it :P
22:58 < Dan39> if its really ctrl+B or just ctrl+shift+b
22:59 < jaggz> (it's because ctrl-keys are not actually modifiers, but actual legit unique ascii codes, like ctrl-d is .. I don't know.. nevermind. :)
22:59 < jaggz> tab is 9 :)
22:59 < jaggz> (ctrl-I)
23:00 < Dan39> i see
23:00 < renn0xtk9> So VGA calbe on the black screen and it work So it does not come from the screen. There is a probleme witht he DVI interface some how
23:00 < jml2> renn0xtk9, tehehe
23:00 < jml2> please label your cables tehehehe
23:01 < jml2> renn0xtk9, french tehehehe
23:01 < jaggz> again, on a local system it can examine all the keys, see if ctrl is held down, etc. so your window manager/whatever can distinguish (so you can have all sorts of fun shortcuts)
23:01 < jml2> renn0xtk9, "somehow" is one word :pp
23:01 < renn0xtk9> jml2 ? don't understand
23:01 < jaggz> someone add a new modifier key to all keyboards already.. vim and blender need new ones :)
23:02 < renn0xtk9> pnbeast which log should I watch for this ?
23:02 < jaggz> (it needs to be standard too)..
23:03 < rascul> jaggz stop using vim and blender, problem solved
23:04 < jaggz> rascul, I feel better already
23:04 < rascul> :)
23:04 < texasmynsted> anybody happen to know of a shell-script or something that I can use to quickly compress/decompress directories of files where it automatically knows what files
23:05 < texasmynsted> can be compressed and what would be a waste of time?
23:05 < jaggz> rascul, I whipped this up quickly in blender: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d3PWe5BlXI
23:05 < texasmynsted> Duplicity can do this iirc...
23:05 < Dan39> texasmynsted: ive read about that, errr i forget what supported it, lemme think...
23:05 < texasmynsted> not sure how to google this
23:06 < Dan39> maybe it was duplicity or a similar backup tool
23:06 < rascul> jaggz but what's with the magnets?!
23:06 < revel> "/bin/cat: standard output: Permission denied"
23:06 < revel> :D
23:06 < Dan39> trying to sudo with a redirect?
23:07 < revel> Yes.
23:07 < jml2> try pee
23:07 < Dan39> yea, the redirect is in current process, it doesn't get sudo'ed
23:07 < jml2> (moreutils)
23:07 < Dan39> could sudo bash -c
23:07 < revel> I thought it was selinux stepping in front of that.
23:08 < jaggz> rascul, deliberately unclear (it's not intended to target anything specifically).. it was an abstract representation of many concepts like spanning from the aim for renewable resources, to the powers that influence people's lives.
23:09 < revel> Yeah, some testing seems to indicate that.
23:09 < revel> Different context, but same user leads to the same result.
23:09 < jaggz> like spanning?  bad irc editing skills :)
23:10 < rascul> revel some_command | sudo tee /some/file
23:11 < revel> rascul: No, it was more like `sudo -r sysadm_r -t sysadm_t  cat somefile | xclip -se c`
23:11 < rascul> oh
23:11 < Dan39> oh, a pipe
23:11 < revel> But doing sudo with `-u $USER` didn't make any difference, so I'm pretty sure it was selinux.
23:11 < Dan39> that's a pipe btw, not a redirect
23:12 < [R]> Dan39: me smokem peace pipe?
23:12 < revel> It redirects the stdout of proc_1 to the stdin of proc_2, dunnit?
23:12 < Dan39> [R]: whatever floats your pipe
23:12 < Dan39> revel: sure, terminology is all
23:13 < rascul> redirect is for files, pipe is for commands
23:13  * [R] redirects rascul 
23:13 < [R]> rascul: what about people?
23:13  * rascul turns left
23:13 < revel> Ah well.
23:13 < rascul> people don't matter
23:13 < Dan39> omg i just noticed i typed "whatever floats your pipe". i swear i meant to type boat
23:14 < Dan39> but it's even better that way
23:14 < Dan39> accidental genius? :D
23:14 < rascul> no
23:14 < Dan39> no? oh. :(
23:15 < jml2> Dan39, my balls float on water
23:16 < Dan39> that was random...
23:17  * jml2 ( ͡°ʖ ͡°)
23:17 < texasmynsted> because they are so tiny?
23:18 < Dan39> no, because they are so full of air
23:18  * texasmynsted shrug
23:18 < phinxy> I created a equivs-build .deb to fix a dependency issue.  Should I write this down somewhere?
23:19 < Dan39> you just did
23:19 < [R]> phinxy: if you want?
23:20 < rascul> heh https://www.linuxuprising.com/2018/05/malware-found-in-ubuntu-snap-store.html
23:20 < jml2> (•̀ᴗ•́)و ̑̑
23:20 < jml2> rascul, ouch!
23:21 < rascul> not surprising, anyone can submit something with no review or anything
23:22 < sauvin> That url won't resolve for me.
23:23 < rascul> hrm
23:23  * [R] writes a scathing review on rascul 
23:24 < rascul> https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Mq0xxCiMjmIJ:https://www.linuxuprising.com/2018/05/malware-found-in-ubuntu-snap-store.html+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
23:24 < rascul> google cache has it
23:25 < renn0xtk9> does that malware somehow can download firmaware on the mortherboard or affect displasy/ screen whatsoever?
23:25 < jml2> i realized that some sites that host illegal content --- their dns name is not resolved with cloudflare's 1.1.1.1
23:25 < MrElendig> malware exists in the apple app store which is vetted
23:25 < rascul> renn0xtk9 it runs a crypto miner
23:25 < jml2> sauvin, the site works here ...
23:26 < renn0xtk9> okay
23:26 < MrElendig> sidenote: don't believe the 1.1.1.1 propaganda :)
23:27 < revel> Propaganda?
23:27 < [R]> rascul: better or worse than a crypto minor?
23:28 < MrElendig> the claims that it is something that never existed before, magically makes everything faster and secure/private
23:28 < rascul> [R] good question, i'll send it to a committee
23:28 < rascul> revel linuxuprising.com resolves just fine at 1.1.1.1
23:29 < MrElendig> basically it is 95% marketing
23:29 < revel> rascul: Okay?
23:29 < MrElendig> (and why would you trust a company that earns all its money from breaking ssl)
23:29 < rascul> revel oops i meant to mention jml2 not you
23:32 < jml2> rascul, i addressed that to sauvin because he said he cant access the site --- there are certain sites that are somewhat "illegal" (eg, copyrighted movies) that cloudflared takes out of their dns
23:32 < rascul> jml2 do you have any examples?
23:32 < jml2> rascul, sure
23:32 < jml2> rascul, ffilms.org
23:32 < rascul> that doesn't resolve from google either
23:33 < jml2> rascul, resolves with my isp's dns nameservers
23:33 < rascul> ok i got it to resolve with my isp
23:33 < jml2> rascul, the site doesn't appear dangerous.. they offer free movie streaming
23:34 < jml2> rascul, it looks like google and cloudflared abide by a dmca ruling complaints when they're told about it
23:34 < rascul> google gives search results to ffilms.org though
23:34 < jml2> rascul, does it go to the same site?
23:35 < rascul> it does
23:35 < sauvin> ffilms.org resolved for me.
23:35 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm
23:36 < Psi-Jack> It didn't.. For me. :/
23:37 < rascul> Psi-Jack what resolver do you use?
23:37 < Psi-Jack> But it does through my ISP.
23:37 < rascul> it resolves at 4.2.2.2
23:37 < Psi-Jack> rascul: I tried google, 1.1.1.1, 9.9.9.9
23:37 < jml2> (ffilms.org.		11802	IN	A	109.202.107.170)
23:37 < rascul> you lost your spaces!
23:37 < [R]> is L3's dns still a thing?
23:38 < rascul> [R] yes
23:38 < candidat> i tried to google anus  but my request went in a blackhole
23:39 < Psi-Jack> I could resolve it though, with COX's DNS.
23:39 < Psi-Jack> But I don't trust COX's DNS because they feed back bogus NX.
23:39 < [R]> Psi-Jack: do you like cox?
23:39  * [R] giggles
23:39 < mawk> I can't resolve ffilms.org and I have my own resolver
23:39 < [R]> mawk: right, and what is your upstream?
23:39 < Psi-Jack> But, now I can't trust Google DNS, CloudFlare DNS, or whoever 9.9.9.9 is.
23:40 < mawk> the root servers [R]
23:40 < [R]> lol
23:40 < [R]> then your server is horrifically misconfigured
23:40 < [R]> i was able to resolve it with the root servers
23:40 < rascul> Psi-Jack i feel the same way with the trust
23:40 < mawk> yeah I don't know why it said servfail, when I tried again it worked
23:41 < rascul> Psi-Jack https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/11/new-quad9-dns-service-blocks-malicious-domains-for-everyone/
23:42 < notmike> Debian
23:42 < mawk> you've got 9.9.9.10 if you don't like the blocking feature ra
23:42 < mawk> rascul:
23:42 < mawk> they don't block that ffilms thing
23:42 < Psi-Jack> 9.9.9.10 does not resolve ffilms.org
23:42 < rascul> mawk 9.9.9.10 doesn't resolve ffilms.org here
23:42 < mawk> it does from here
23:43 < rascul> weird
23:43 < mawk> maybe it's the geolocated feature
23:43 < mawk> I'm in france so it ends up in european servers
23:43 < kurahaupo> Oh they don't mean malicious to *you*, they mean malicious to the poor impoverished movie producers
23:43 < tds> that domain fails due to dnssec with my resolvers
23:44 < Psi-Jack> I get the same 109.202.107.170 that jml2 when I specifically query my ISP DNS.
23:44 < rascul> kurahaupo regardless, i think i should be the one deciding whether or not i should visit a web site
23:44 < tds> validating ffilms.org/A: got insecure response; parent indicates it should be secure
23:44 < Psi-Jack> Bah, dnssec, useless technology.
23:44 < tds> :(
23:45 < Psi-Jack> Great way to get unfiltered UDP based DDoS amplification.
23:45 < kurahaupo> Removing a record from a zone will invalidate signing for that zone; eg com
23:45 < tds> Psi-Jack: well that's easily solved if everyone finally starts filtering source addresses ;)
23:46 < Psi-Jack> Well, the problem being that UDP makes that harder. :)
23:46 < Psi-Jack> Hmm, OpenDNS resolves ffilms.org
23:47 < mawk> maybe it's dnssec errors as tds is saying
23:47 < tds> why does udp make filtering source addresses any harder than tcp/anything else?
23:47 < tds> tcp just makes your source address spoofing a bit useless as you can't establish a connection
23:47 < jml2> i suppose google,cloudflared and gca are sharing each other's whitelists
23:47 < jml2> so it's not just me...
23:47 < jml2> lol
23:48 < Psi-Jack> Welp. Google, CloudFlare, and Quad9 are out for me now. Filtering DNS is bad. m'kay
23:48 < [R]> well, just use the root servers
23:48 < [R]> problem soled
23:48 < tds> yes, they've got DS records in the parent zone, and the zone those nameservers is serving doesn't have the DNSKEY record or any RRSIGs: http://dnsviz.net/d/ffilms.org/dnssec/
23:48 < Psi-Jack> Now I just need to figure out how to filter opendns's bogus NXDOMAINs are.
23:48 < mawk> Psi-Jack: 9.9.9.10 doesn't filter !
23:49 < Psi-Jack> mawk: They do.
23:49 < mawk> how so ?
23:49 < Psi-Jack> SERVFAIL, on ffilms.org
23:49 < jml2> Psi-Jack, probably easier, to have another nameserver kick-in temporarily if the primary one returns no result :p
23:49 < tds> that's them running a decent nameserver and validating dnssec, not any censorship
23:49 < mawk> it looks more like a dnssec error
23:49 < Psi-Jack> jml2: No, I can get the NXDOMAIN filter pretty easily with dnsmasq.
23:49 < Psi-Jack> mawk: I'm not checking DNSSEC
23:50 < tds> most nameservers will send servfail for dnssec failures, even if you don't set the do bit in your query, afaik
23:51 < Psi-Jack> That's still filtering.
23:52 < tds> so chrome refusing to let you get to a site because the cert is revoked is censorship?
23:52 < Psi-Jack> There we go. OpenDNS activated.
23:52 < jml2> Psi-Jack, no I mean, if you get the false result, to use your ISP's nameserver.  I haven't looked into using root-hint servers -- I believe those things are possibly limitted for anyone to query against
23:52 < Psi-Jack> jml2: Huh?
23:53 < rascul> opendns is eww
23:53 < Psi-Jack> My ISP's own DNS servers sends back a bogus NXDOMAIN for any unresolved result, to pull you into their cheesy crappy search site.
23:53 < rascul> or did they stop filtering?
23:53 < Psi-Jack> rascul: Yeah, but they don't filter, it seems.
23:53 < miwilc> 1.1.1.1 anyone?
23:53 < rascul> opendns used to hijack nxdomain
23:54 < rascul> miwilc they filter, as we have just discovered
23:54 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm..
23:54 < Psi-Jack> Their sample phishing site does show they do something...
23:55 < rascul> this one might be ok https://backplanedns.org/
23:55 < rascul> couple quick checks haven't turned up any filtering or hijacking or anything
23:57 < mawk> you can test your dns servers on dnssec-bogus.sg Psi-Jack
23:57 < mawk> but my guess is that you won't find any that won't result in SERVFAIL
23:57 < mawk> so 9.9.9.10 is still your best option
23:58 < tds> rascul: hmm, the ip for that resolver appears to be unreachable from my network at least:
23:58 < tds> From 2607:5600::a2f8:f3ca icmp_seq=4 Destination unreachable: Address unreachable
23:58 < Psi-Jack> mawk: Heh, is there a secondary to 9.9.9.10?
23:58 < mawk> doesn't seem so
23:58 < mawk> they say that a secondary server is useless
23:59 < Psi-Jack> I'm running a DNSBench tool now to find the faster DNS IPs, just being curious
23:59 < mawk> 9.9.9.9/9.9.9.10 support DNScrypt also
23:59 < rascul> tds yeah i can't hit their ipv6 either, guess i'll keep looking
--- Log closed Sun May 13 00:00:18 2018