--- Log opened Thu May 17 00:00:22 2018 00:05 < aBound> Aha, W3Schools has a Python tutorial I never knew they even had one there must be new. :P 00:06 < Celmor> I've mounted an ext4 filesystem from an image and filled it with zeroes, after I aborted dd it still continued flushing data into the image and kept consuming more space, the umount command is stuck for multiple minutes now 00:07 < Celmor> now I'm seeing Buffer I/O error in dmesg 00:09 < phinxy> I wanted fbterm to set TERM=fbterm in .bashrc, but only fbterm, not linux console. if tty | fgrep -q pts; then; echo "I'm most likely fbterm" fi 00:11 < bls> does fbterm not start its own shell? 00:12 < bls> because it's pretty standard procedure for things like that to ensure TERM is set correctly in the shell they start 00:13 < phinxy> Isnt fbterm just about the only framebuffer terminal? What was before? VGA terminals? 00:14 < aBound> Anyone ever used this program before for Linux calle: FreeOffice. I just saw an article on OMGUbuntu: http://www.freeoffice.com/en/ 00:14 < bls> and checking if the tty is a pseudo-terminal is going to break xterm/rxvt/gnome-terminal/ssh/etc/etc 00:15 < bls> there was SVGATextMode 00:15 < bls> but things like that and fbterm are generally just curiosities 00:18 < lord|> F@00238 00:24 < rcf> Nowadays there's also kmscon, which also supports fbdev despite the name. 00:29 < mawk> can someone try this ? git clone anonymous@serveur.io:repos/vpn.git 00:31 < rcf> mawk: it works. 00:31 < mawk> nice 00:31 < mawk> can you try pushing ? 00:31 < mawk> it should fail 00:31 < mawk> cd vpn; touch lol; git add lol; git commit -m lol; git push origin master 00:31 < rcf> 'remote: pushing as anonymous is forbidden.' so yes. 00:32 < rascul> succeeds and fails here to as expected 00:32 < mawk> thanks 00:39 < phinxy> Does ldconfig remove .so symlinks that I have created manually with ln -s to statisfy a programs dependency? 00:40 < phinxy> ah no, I moved the folder with the .so 00:40 < phinxy> Are there symlinks which follows mv'd files? 00:41 < jim> I don't think so 00:42 < bls> no, you would not want that from a security perspective 00:54 < mawk> who needs https transport for git when you have anonymous ssh 00:55 < mawk> using a few hacks to disable pushing 00:55 < bls> the end user hoops/implications are likely simpler for https 00:57 < mawk> http://paste.suut.in/DvnF06Lw.sh 00:58 < hehehe> hi 00:58 < graff> I am having some troubles with qemu. it's the problem of "graphic mode 690 x480" when in curses mode 00:58 < domhnall> hola 00:58 < hehehe> gosh linux - every time I dont ident with nickserv I can't talk change nick 00:58 < hehehe> haha 00:58 < graff> sometimes I have been able to work around it in the past by hitting enter, but this time nop 00:59 < graff> and I really need this particular machine running qemu so it can dispatch my gitlab runners 00:59 < hehehe> some insane girls pm me, fun 00:59 < hehehe> :D 00:59 < domhnall> mmk... 00:59 < graff> it is debian 8.8, but then when I try to run debian 8.8 inside of it again... this happens 00:59 < ||JD||> There is no girls 00:59 < graff> hehehe: i PMd you a picture of my boob 00:59 < ||JD||> girls on IRC are dudes 00:59 < ||JD||> and little girls FBI agents 00:59 < graff> i only have one and it grows from my face 00:59 < graff> enjoy 01:00 < domhnall> sounds like a chin 01:00 < graff> oh hmm 01:00 < domhnall> with a possible mole 01:00 < graff> i guess there's no need to keep rubbing it then 01:00 < graff> heh 01:00 < bls> cool pumples 01:00 * graff rubs his chin thoughtfully 01:00 < hehehe> I meant to say - some insane girls pm me, they don't understand no :) 01:00 < hehehe> chin joke is cool 01:01 < graff> haha 01:01 < graff> anyway, i really need to get around this qemu problem 01:01 < hehehe> what is the problem? 01:01 < graff> anyone know of a distro and version of linux that works well in qemu on a remote server 01:02 < hehehe> I have used ubuntu in it 01:02 < hehehe> worked ok 01:02 < graff> hehehe: where in curses mode the screen just stops and says "graphic mode 680 x 480" 01:02 < hehehe> hmm 01:02 < graff> i'd like to use "nographic" mode, but seems even more broken with these images 01:03 < rcf> graff: you can bypass all of that by using the serial console 01:03 < hehehe> yes 01:03 < graff> rcf: but you need to use the kernel alone for that right? 01:03 < hehehe> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/23411745/qemu-kvm-install-iso-falls-in-blank-screen-with-640-480-graphic-mode 01:03 < hehehe> maybe that will help 01:03 < graff> no way to do it with a .iso i thought 01:04 < hehehe> 2 01:04 < hehehe> down vote 01:04 < hehehe> Hit Esc key, boot menu should appear. writing: help will give you all options. Solution is on boot console, write: install vga=normal fb=false 01:04 < hehehe> that will disable default frame buffer and vga mode 01:04 < graff> i think that is the solution, i will script an x86_64 qemu install using a seperate kernel and initrd 01:04 < graff> but it will be a pain in the butt. but might work 01:04 < graff> hehehe: yeah let me try escape too. i usually just try "enter" \n 01:05 < graff> thanks you guys. please though keep the suggestions coming if possible. this is really sucky 01:05 < hehehe> first do esc 01:05 < hehehe> it may work 01:08 < graff> escape sort of helps 01:08 < graff> it brings me to: boot: 01:09 < graff> and then when I hit enter it just goes back to the same problem though 01:09 < graff> at least I am getting somewhere though. thanks hehehe 01:09 < graff> and rcf if you know of a way to do that without specifying -kernel let me know pls 01:09 < graff> if not i may end up just using a seperate kernel and initrd, and that will probably work 01:10 < graff> and in which case do you know what I should specify as extra parameters? 01:10 < hehehe> did u do - , write: install vga=normal fb=false 01:10 < hehehe> yes or no? 01:11 < rcf> graff: According to https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Qemu, you want to get to the 'boot:' prompt, type 'install console=ttyS0,9600,n8' (and enter, obviously) and ctrl+alt+3 to get to the qemu serial monitor. 01:12 < hehehe> nice 01:17 < rcf> It's been awhile since I've actually had to do that (on real hardware, not qemu), but hopefully the installer gives an option to use the serial console without manual configuration. 01:19 < TyrfingMjolnir> What on earth could possibly make a web/java application require internet explorer? 01:19 < meyou> activex 01:20 < TyrfingMjolnir> What is activex? 01:20 < TyrfingMjolnir> Something part of mono? 01:21 < quul> first rule of activex club is you don't talk about activex club 01:22 * TyrfingMjolnir stuffs babelfish in my left ear 01:23 < TyrfingMjolnir> quul: say what? 01:23 < meyou> not 100% sure i just know that when i've had to fall back to IE it was often sites that use activex. there's also the whole "our html isn't standardized because this site was designed in the 90's and we did a lot of hacky things to make it work well in IE, so 20 years later it only works in IE" 01:23 < quul> iirc it was an api to run native code from a web page 01:23 < quul> amazing it still exists 01:24 < TyrfingMjolnir> I have this issue where for 1 app it's required to run ie w/java 8 01:24 < TyrfingMjolnir> Running this in wine or similar would be amazing 01:25 < TyrfingMjolnir> Also for Safari on Mac I can set the user agent to internet explorer, however this changes nothing 01:25 < TyrfingMjolnir> How can I debug this? 01:25 < TyrfingMjolnir> Is my best bet to install ethereal? 01:25 < rcf> TyrfingMjolnir: activex are native win32 plugins for IE. 01:26 < TyrfingMjolnir> ... tshark 01:26 < TyrfingMjolnir> Oh 01:26 < TyrfingMjolnir> And then it's stuck at that... 01:26 < TyrfingMjolnir> I will have to run those plugins. 01:27 < TyrfingMjolnir> It's just sad. 01:27 < TyrfingMjolnir> Thank you. 01:35 < rcf> Old IE as well, because they're so awful security-wise that even Microsoft gave up on them. 01:38 < puff> When I plug my kindle fire in via USB cable, I get "Unable to open MTP device '[usb:002,006]'" 01:39 < puff> When I do "mtp-detect" it finds the kindle fire and attempts to connect, then: PTP_ERROR_IO: failed to open session, trying again after resetting USB interface 01:39 < puff> 01:39 < maverick313> puff---> Change your USB cable 01:41 < puff> maverick313: Thanks, that seems to have fixed it. Hm. 01:49 < gambl0re> can anyocan anyone recommend a simple lightweight easy to use video editor for ubuntu? 01:49 < bls> gambl0re: tried kdenlive? 01:49 < gambl0re> no, is it easy to use? 01:50 < bls> no clue, that's pretty subjective 01:50 < gambl0re> you've never used it? 01:51 < bls> I played with it years ago to trim a file, that's about my extent with it 01:52 < gambl0re> how was your experience? 01:52 < bls> it did what I needed it to do 01:52 < xamithan> What kind of video 01:52 < bls> and was easier than figuring out ffmpeg flags 01:53 < Sitri> Avidmux 01:53 < michaelrose> lightworks looks kind of neat does not seem to be very easy to use 01:55 < bls> looks like there are more choices in the FOSS world too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_video_editing_software 01:57 < kevr> `wget --spider --recursive` is ignoring --spider after the first --recursive link is found 01:57 < kevr> how can i avoid this so that it always uses spider? 01:59 < mawk> apt uses globbing when I want to install g++8 01:59 < mawk> as a result it installs tons of useless stuff and no g++8 02:01 < bls> are you missing a -? 02:01 < bls> because none of those characters are glob atoms 02:04 < mawk> ah, yeah indeed 02:05 < bjv> Q: I have several systems with 0750 root permissions, and just discovered a script (https://github.com/docker-library/postgres/blob/de8ba87d50/10/docker-entrypoint.sh ) which I am unable to run on them 02:05 < bjv> e.g. / is 0750 02:06 < bjv> question is, why can i run /bin/bash but not /usr/local/bin/docker-entrypoint.sh ? 02:07 < bjv> error "error: exec: "/usr/local/bin/docker-entrypoint.sh": stat /usr/local/bin/docker-entrypoint.sh: permission denied" 02:07 < Sonolin> good evening neckbeards! 02:07 < bls> bjv: what are the permissions on /usr/local/bin/docker-entrypoint.sh ? 02:07 < bls> bjv: and what happens if you run `bash -x /usr/local/bin/docker-entrypoint.sh` 02:08 < bjv> bls: 0775 02:08 < bjv> which i hilarously know, because i ran "stat /usr/local/bin/docker-entrypoint.sh" 02:08 < Sonolin> docker now? Fun.... 02:08 < Sonolin> *not* 02:09 < bjv> i suspect it is something which the https://github.com/docker-library/postgres/blob/de8ba87d50/10/docker-entrypoint.sh shell script is doing 02:10 < bjv> because, i can run /bin/bash and the script -seems- to run if i call it with no arguments 02:10 < bjv> the "error: exec: " message occurs, only if i evoke the script the way it's supposed to be used, which is 02:10 < bjv> /usr/local/bin/docker-entrypoint.sh postgres 02:11 < bjv> (the script also appears to run correctly, if i manually set chmod o+x / before evoking the script with one parameter, per above) 02:14 < bjv> for now i'm working around the issue by running the script like: bash -c 'chmod o+x /; /usr/local/bin/docker-entrypoint.sh postgres' 02:15 < bls> that doesn't look like a script that can just be run on its own 02:15 < bjv> but i'm just puzzled, why that is needed 02:15 < bls> lots of uninitialized environment variables being accessed 02:16 < bjv> bls: true, it can be run only in an environment with 2-3 particular env vars set 02:17 < bls> hence the recommendation to run it with -x to see which command is returning non-zero 02:18 < thadtheman> How do I get a list of strings in a binary? 02:18 < graff> there is a program called strings 02:18 < graff> it's part of binutils 02:24 < domhnall> hm, never knew strings was in binutils. 02:29 < bjv> bls: thanks, bash +x points out that the script is re-evoking itself as postgres user via gosu 02:29 < bjv> + exec gosu postgres /usr/local/bin/docker-entrypoint.sh postgres 02:30 < bjv> hence, why i can run /bin/bash as root no problem and 0750 on / matters 02:31 < graff> dannylee: a tool for manipulating binaries yeah 02:31 < graff> it's probably the most basic of the tools inside of binutils 02:31 < dannylee> ok what is it 02:32 < graff> it just loops for strings using a state machine 02:32 < graff> looks * 02:32 < graff> like: while INASTRING = true 02:32 < graff> omitting unreadable characters 02:33 < dannylee> i just got openSuse working on my computer..what then 02:35 < dannylee> tell me how too keep my computer from sleeping every 5 minutes 02:36 < dannylee> my machine just want toooo sleep..i check all my settings..but if i leave my machine it will sleep 02:37 < dannylee> then i need a password 02:37 < dannylee> but if i play a youtube video it wont sleep 02:38 < stevendale> Hiya 02:39 < dannylee> openSuse is the best..but it might take some time to get rid or the bugs 02:39 * stevendale using Debian Stable 02:41 < s0k_iT> openSuse is for distribution of software? 02:41 < s0k_iT> just asking because I am unfamilar with it 02:41 < dannylee> openSuse is made in germany..it is really good 02:43 < dannylee> i kept getting hack with fedora 27..so i install openSuse 02:43 < s0k_iT> how is openSuse a remedy for a hack? 02:44 < Sonolin> is openSuse even linux? 02:44 < blackgatonegro> fedora? Wow 02:44 < Sonolin> oh, nm, apparently yes 02:44 < xamithan> lol sonolin 02:44 < Sonolin> sorry, a little drunk ;) 02:45 < blackgatonegro> linux ditro org is your friend.... I think 02:45 < dannylee> russian voka 02:45 < dannylee> ok i change my password 02:46 < blackgatonegro> nah DistroWatch 02:47 < xamithan> what is linuxditro.org 02:47 < xamithan> It doesn't load for me 02:50 < blackgatonegro> xamithan is distro watch 02:55 < arooni> about to shut down a vps i used as a web app server; i've already checked and backed up all mysql databases id want; looked thru the code /var/www section... and downloads. trying to think if there might be anything else i need before i shut it down. am i missing naything? 02:55 < puff> Dammit... still having problems with mtp. 02:56 < puff> libmtp error: Could not send object info. 02:57 < swift110> Manjaro is on top at distrowatch 02:58 < xamithan> Well it doesn't take much to be at the top, just a few clicks from a botnet 02:58 < mutante> arooni: /etc is always very small but doesnt hurt to have if you want to lookup the config you used in the past 02:59 < mutante> arooni: /home 02:59 < arooni> wow you're right i though /etc/ would be huge 02:59 < arooni> but its like 25mb 02:59 < mutante> yea, just text files 03:00 < arooni> so whats the best way of capturing that. rsyncing? 03:00 < mutante> yes, rsync 03:00 < arooni> not sure how that would work because wouldnt i need sudo to access it 03:00 < mutante> i usually rsync /root, /home, /etc ehm.. and it depends 03:00 < arooni> i.e. i cant run rsync from my local machine id like to back up TO right 03:00 < swift110> xamindar: oh that's true 03:00 < mutante> arooni: well doesnt VPS mean you have root? 03:00 < Acheron> hello swift110 03:01 < arooni> mutante: i do but i have to sudo for it 03:01 < arooni> i guess i can try to ssh via root; but i think id have disabled that 03:01 < arooni> easier; i can ssh into my local machine from the vps 03:01 < swift110> I never thought of that. I mean it makes no sense for mxlinux and reactos to be ranked higher than something like Ubuntu Mate' or even Puppy Linux 03:01 < mutante> arooni: an alternative is this: ssh to it , use sudo to install an rsyncd daemon. go back to local machine. sync from daemon using rsync protocol 03:02 < mutante> then you dont need root, but you have to configure the rsyncd one time and tell it which pathes you allow to be synced 03:02 < mutante> the difference is rsync:// vs. rsyncOverSSH 03:03 < rypervenche> arooni: I always give myself root on VPSs. I'd do it that way. Or you can tar up the directories if you prefer. 03:03 < swift110> hey Acheron how are you? 03:04 < Acheron> doing quite well 03:04 < Acheron> thankS for asking 03:04 < stevendale> Hey Acheron :3 03:04 < arooni> rypervenche: ooh yeah i'll just tar the /etc/ directory up easier 03:04 < Acheron> <-- on Kubuntu 18.04 ATM 03:04 < arooni> rypervenche: i have access to root; but i think i have to sudo on it for this server 03:04 < mutante> arooni: or .. since you are going to shut it down anyways.. you could allow root login in SSHd config .. just for this.. and then shut down 03:05 < arooni> it brings me a bit of sadness to shut down this vps; i have others but it's been good to me and served some fun apps for me 03:05 < mutante> it's probably disabled in SSHd config . so you cant directly login but only with your regular user 03:05 < mutante> i wouldnt care though if it was for the last backup before i kill it 03:09 * Acheron tickleS stevendale * 03:11 < rypervenche> arooni: Very easy thing to do. PermitRoot yes in /etc/ssh/sshd_config 03:12 < ALowther> Does anybody have a recommendation for some great material that really explain the lower level services of an OS. Like the file structure and where all of the default files are housed and how they are referenced and how they build the foundation for how everything else runs? 03:13 < bls> ALowther: the LFS book has some of that 03:13 < rypervenche> ALowther: Well, for the "normal" default file locations, you can check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard 03:13 < bls> ALowther: and from a more generic unix-like OS perspective, there are good books on Minix, Xv6, and FreeBSD 03:15 < ALowther> I'll look into those, thank you. 03:17 < bls> "LFS teaches people how a Linux system works internally. Building LFS teaches you about all that makes Linux tick, how things work together and depend on each other. And most importantly, how to customize it to your own tastes and needs." 03:18 < rascul> unless you blindly copy/paste anyway 03:18 < xamithan> Can I make it more spicy? 03:18 < ALowther> Incredible, that sounds exactly like what I'm looking for. I program sometimes and I am more approaching it from that angle. I am often mystified how the little things are working beneath the abstractions and I want to strip that away a bit. 03:19 < blackgatonegro> ALowther, so you get distracted by shinnies, while prgraming, that must go well. 03:19 < bls> ALowther: if you also dev, then the LPI book is good as well 03:20 < bls> although it's likely a bit dated in the post-systemd world 03:20 < blackgatonegro> you can run linux on a toaster, if your toast burns too much, blame the kernel upgrade. 03:22 < stevendale> ReactOS runs on toasters tii bkacjga 03:23 < stevendale> blackgatonegro 03:23 < ALowther> Thank you 03:25 < blackgatonegro> stevendale, just a joke about how upgrading the kernel on a perfectly working distro can cause things to go wrong. From keyboards and mouses no longer working, for videocard prblems, to outright having to nuke and reinstall. 03:25 < rascul> normally you can just downgrade your kernel instead of reinstalling everything 03:27 < rascul> mainstream point release distros tend to test their kernels decently before shipping though 03:27 < blackgatonegro> rascul, yeah but sometimes you can't. And I tend to use hardware that's a tad old. 03:27 < bls> no way, you blindly update everything daily with no backups or rollback plan then whinge when it goes sideways and install a different distro because that one obviously sucks 03:27 < rypervenche> blackgatonegro: What distro have you been using? 03:27 < blackgatonegro> Ubuntu, Xubuntu, Linux Mint.... 03:28 < blackgatonegro> I am quite happy with Mint nowadays. 03:28 < rascul> i'm also happy with mint, since i don't use it 03:28 < rypervenche> Except when it burns the toast :) 03:28 < blackgatonegro> And let's face it, I love the smell of a fresh install in the morning. 03:29 < mutante> if you want a surprise in the morning, i might recommend setting up unattended-upgrades incl. auto reboot 03:30 < stevendale> Just install Windows 10, mutante, it does that out of box ;) 03:30 * Acheron xD * 03:31 < mutante> hehe, wow 03:31 < blackgatonegro> Yeah Windows 10 has so much spyware and bloatware it crashes a few PCs after each major upgrade. 03:31 < dannylee> its wet here in florida 03:31 < stevendale> blackgatonegro: That's why, when I can't use Wine, I use XP :D 03:32 < phogg> stevendale: at that point why not just use reactOS? Quality is about the same. 03:32 < blackgatonegro> I only use windows for games. And my oldv XP laptop still works but only for games and offline only. Despite that I lost count of how many time I had to reinstall Windows. 03:33 < blackgatonegro> Honesty on windows you have to update each app... by hand. 03:33 < jim> stevendale, that's a pretty extreme action, to install some version of windows.., not only does probably a half gig of disk space get used up (if not 50g), but now you have a legal agreement with a company that will use that agreement in ways you don't know about... 03:34 < Acheron> if Windows had made as many advances in the last two years as Linux has (and remember MS has the resources of thousands of paid developers VS Linux - mostly volunteers) -- I would gladly jump back in. 03:34 < phogg> like upgrading your desktop shell when you install a web browser 03:35 < jim> I don't use windows for anything, and, I have a copy on a laptop I bought, which I have -never- permitted to see any networking whatsoever 03:35 < blackgatonegro> eh windows xp came with the laptop. And have you read the things you click "I agree online? 03:35 < phogg> Acheron: you don't think Fluent Design is an advance? 03:35 < Acheron> I refuse to be a monitored, paying beta tester for M$. Linux amazes every day! Software written by people who care. You can't buy passion. 03:36 < jim> blackgatonegro, nope, and I haven't agreed to anything on that windows 03:36 < mutante> Cortana doesn't like it when you are not a good boy, tsk tsk. 03:37 < jim> blackgatonegro, again, that copy of windows has -never- seen the net 03:37 < dannylee> ok that might be true...but microsoft spend million of dollor to mess up linux,,and there updates..that why i dont do updates..i just want windows to die a painful death??? 03:37 < blackgatonegro> jim, that's what you think. 03:37 < jim> that's what I know, my net requires a password 03:37 < cmj> hunter2 03:37 < stevendale> I mean, I'm not being monitored while using XP, the spyware servers are down, they cost money, and the XP user base isn't big enough to get any info to make enough money to cover the cost of the servers, and they'd be making more money from that 'Visual Studio Code' text editor available for Linux, which Linux has much larger base than XP 03:38 < cmj> why all this windows chatter? 03:38 < jim> yeah, that would be my question too 03:38 < cmj> poeple hashing the noble crossing 03:38 < graff> LFS seems really hacky to me 03:39 < jim> graff, probably it is... and? 03:39 < graff> imo it should focus on having a self replicating system up (one that can rebuild its toolchain) in under 100 loc 03:39 < mutante> you just have to say the word and people will start explaining that it's "only for games" 03:39 < graff> and should not be using patches and sed to change things 03:39 < stevendale> I compiled Desmume for Linux 03:39 < stevendale> Proud of myself 03:40 < stevendale> 0.9.12 has been in the making since 2015 03:40 < blackgatonegro> eh so... gaming on linux? 03:40 < graff> linux, coreutils, gcc/mpc/mpfr/gmp, make, awk and then rebuild itself 03:40 < phogg> make install, not windows talk 03:40 < stevendale> blackgatonegro: Yeah, Desmume is a cross platform Nintendo DS emulator :) 03:40 < cmj> i 03:41 < cmj> oops 03:41 < blackgatonegro> eh still got my old ds. 03:41 < blackgatonegro> Then again I still have my old Master System. 03:41 < Acheron> anyone can cobble together a desktop OS, it's not rocket science 03:41 < Acheron> http://ra17.com/desk-top.jpg 03:41 < stevendale> blackgatonegro: And yes, gaming on Linux is very doable due to Valve's native Steam client for Linux, which has more games available on it for Linux than it does for Mac OS X 03:41 < blackgatonegro> Acheron, windows Me jokes start in 3 2 1 Go! 03:42 < dannylee> free 03:42 < cmj> not even valve, wine is kicking some ass lately 03:42 < stevendale> In many cases FPS has been higher on modern hardware in Linux running OpenGL than Windows on DirectX 11/12 03:42 < blackgatonegro> stevendale, is an old joke. I been gaming on linux for... wow over a decade? Time sure goes fast. 03:42 * cmj grizzles 03:42 < stevendale> cmj: Wine ran EVE Online faster than Windows did natively 03:42 < cmj> noted 03:43 < stevendale> And my hardware is 2013 and older 03:43 < blackgatonegro> I can never ever get wine to work. 03:43 * graff votes for regen capture 03:43 < graff> compatible with intel GPU 03:43 * stevendale tosses a Nest Ball at Acheron 03:43 < cmj> linuxforgames or something is the frontend for those 03:44 < stevendale> If you've ever played Pokemon, Acheron, I just insulted you :D 03:44 < blackgatonegro> Gamefreak insults Pokemon Palyers a lot. 03:44 * Acheron can catch whatever stevendale can throw * 03:44 < mutante> blackgatonegro: https://sourceforge.net/projects/blinkensisters/ 03:46 < cmj> sorry, playonlinux 03:46 < cmj> which is a derpy frontend to win 03:46 < cmj> e 03:48 < stevendale> :P 03:48 < stevendale> Wine on Windows 03:48 < cmj> eh 03:49 < blackgatonegro> Wine about Windows 03:53 < blackgatonegro> bye bye 03:54 < dannylee> wine is just a joke,,it never work write 04:19 < ayjay_t> anyone know any tools to profile the activity on a USB bus? like, how much bandwidth is being used by what device, etc 04:22 < sujeet> ayjay_t: maybe dstat has what you want 04:22 < sujeet> but it's for block devices 04:33 < ayjay_t> thanks sujeet, i'll man 04:33 < ayjay_t> i'll man(p)age somehow? i'm on the verge of a great pun here 04:34 < graff> i am having a lot of spurious problems with remote qemu 04:34 < graff> so I need to start working on other projects and attack it from various angles 04:34 < graff> how about using docker 04:35 < graff> i know nothing about it 04:35 < graff> and then using that to run my gitlab runners from my gitlab host 04:35 < graff> I think that a VM is safe, docker should be too. i just know nothing about it 04:36 < graff> so if anyone would just give me the lowdown on docker and how it works 04:36 < graff> i know you deploy premade linux images somehow with it 04:39 < stevendale> :o 04:56 < domhnall> hi, im used to kde but now trying out mate, (on FreeBSD), and looking for a good rss reader to rival akregator. anyone know of a good one? 04:59 < Aph3x-WL> this is ##linux, maybe you should try #freebsd 05:00 < domhnall> Aph3x-WL: its in a vm...but I think I may try rss2html. not sure if learning curve but meh, im up for it. 05:00 < domhnall> thanks though. 05:02 < domhnall> nice nick too 05:15 < baconicsynergy> i just found an old hard drive of all of my old music i thought i lost!!!!!!! 05:15 * baconicsynergy is currently listening to The Dirty Projectors 05:36 < iqubic> So I have an issue with LightDM. After SystemD's scrolling text finishes, I get like 5 seconds of a blank screen before LightDM starts. 05:36 < iqubic> Anyone know how to fixt this? 05:38 < iqubic> Or can someone help me identify the cause of this issue? 05:48 < Kingsqueee> so I just turned on my fedora laptop and the hostname is 'node-1w7jr9qiabckyp4reqovabg38.ipv6.telus.net' 05:49 < Kingsqueee> while $ less /etc/hostname => localhost.localdomain 05:49 < Kingsqueee> can someone tell me what the everloving hell. 05:50 < rascul> dhcp client setting your hostname? 05:54 < kruug> why does port 8006 show wpl-analytics when it's supposed to show proxmox? 06:03 < rascul> where does it show that? 06:04 < kruug> in the output of `nmap -PN -sT -p 8006 192.168.1.90` 06:04 < revel> That just checks /etc/services 06:04 < revel> I think. 06:04 < kruug> so, it doesn't check what's actively using that port? 06:04 < kruug> Just what it's assigned? 06:05 < ayecee> science! 06:05 < revel> Doesn't -PN skip service discovery and just check if ports are open? 06:06 < rascul> https://www.iana.org/assignments/service-names-port-numbers/service-names-port-numbers.xhtml?&page=108 06:06 < rascul> iana says that's what it is, so that's what it is 06:06 < revel> Yeah, and since you skipped service discovery altogether, it just checked what the default was for port 8006 and told you that. 06:07 < kruug> getting rid of -PN shows the same thing 06:08 < kruug> https://www.speedguide.net/port.php?port=8006 06:08 < revel> Dunno. Maybe try adding -A 06:10 < revel> -sT may mess with results as well, apparently. 06:10 < Crabalocker> I've got byobu installed on a machine, and it is filling my ssh session with a lot of garbage characters 06:10 < Crabalocker> a periodic print, can't tell what it is 06:10 < rascul> i'm not seeing -PN in the man page 06:11 < rascul> Crabalocker did you launch it in that terminal before you used ssh? 06:11 < Crabalocker> yeah, it's been running 06:11 < Crabalocker> I just logged in to check it again after some time 06:11 < rascul> often times gui apps will spam stdout and/or stderr like that 06:12 < rascul> what you would have to do to prevent it is redirect stdout and stderr somewhere else 06:12 < rascul> i have a script i made for exactly the purpose of launching gui apps so the don't spam my terminal exec "$1" "${@:2}" &>> ${b_out:-~/.b.out} & 06:13 < rascul> put that in ~/bin/b then i can run things like 'b kwrite' and kwrite won't spam me anymore, any output goes to ~/.b.out 06:13 < rascul> kruug looks like you need -sV for nmap to try and figure out what's actually running on a port 06:14 < Crabalocker> rascul, I don't have a gui installed, not sure if that matters 06:14 < rascul> oh 06:14 < rascul> here i was thinking byobo was some sort of gui app 06:14 < kruug> rascul: state is closed...how do you open? 06:14 < Crabalocker> the print looks familiar, it's the state of resource usage 06:15 < rascul> kruug is it closed because a firewall is blocking it or closed because nothing is listening on that port? 06:15 < Crabalocker> rascul, I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, it might be considered a gui app I suppose, but I never thought anything through ssh was a gui 06:15 < kruug> according to netstat, pveproxy is listening 06:15 < kruug> rascul: ^ 06:16 < rascul> Crabalocker apparently i have no clue what byobu is or what your issue is 06:16 < Crabalocker> I admit I don't really either, it is some sort of terminal multiplexer 06:16 < Crabalocker> it uses tmux 06:16 < Crabalocker> but I'm not sure what it does in addition to tmux. but I also don't know how to use tmux 06:17 < rascul> kruug are you doing the nmap on the same system that pveproxy is running on? 06:17 < kruug> rascul: no 06:17 < rascul> check the pveproxy config to see what ip it's listening on 06:18 < kruug> rascul: if I run it on the same system, it's the same result `closed` but the service is `unknown` 06:18 < rascul> ok 06:18 < rascul> on the same system, what host are you telling nmap to scan? 06:19 < kruug> the IP address of the system 06:19 < rascul> the public ip? 06:19 < kruug> not 127.0.0.1 06:19 < rascul> same thing with 127.0.0.1? 06:19 < kruug> rascul: yes 06:19 < rascul> telnet localhost 8006 06:20 < rascul> see what happens there 06:20 < rascul> see if it connects or not anyway 06:20 < kruug> rascul: telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused 06:20 < Roserin> 06:20 < rascul> but netstat says it's listening on 8006 still? 06:20 < rascul> check firewall 06:21 < rascul> might be some iptables rule blocking it or something 06:21 < ocnios> Hello 06:22 < ocnios> I'm confused. Do physical volumes contain volume groups - or do volume groups contain physical volumes, or both? 06:23 < rascul> ocnios https://askubuntu.com/a/417644 06:23 < kruug> rascul: iptables has nothing in it 06:23 < rascul> kruug paste here the appropriate netstat line 06:24 < uzdw> I am using qemu with guest os windows 7, started with -daemonize, and use remote-viewer to connect it, works but frequently go bluescreen when it lose display, what is the problem? 06:25 < chamar> hey folks..do you use VirtualBox or Libivrt? Any advantages one over the other? 06:25 < Prof_Birch> quit 06:25 < chamar> (not for prod server.. just for VM on my desktop..) 06:25 < rascul> chamar vbox is better for resizing the window, that's about it 06:25 < kruug> rascul: `tcp 0 0 0.0.0.0:8006 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN 33 23875 1746/pveproxy` 06:25 < chamar> rascul: ok.. so GUI -> Vbox.. basically. 06:26 < rascul> only if you want dynamic window resizing 06:26 < rascul> qemu/libvirt is superior in just about every other way 06:27 < kruug> rascul: but it's currently not there, because I ran `fuser -k -n tcp 8006` per... 06:27 < chamar> ok. thanks.. it will mostly be server expirement.. i'll go with libvirt then. thanks rascul 06:27 < kruug> some site's instructions 06:27 < ocnios> rascul: that doesn't answer my question 06:27 < rascul> kruug i'm not sure what's going on there 06:28 < rascul> ocnios maybe rephrase your question? 06:28 < ocnios> For example. pvdisplay shows /dev/sda2 as the only listed physical volume. 06:28 < ocnios> vgdisplay shows centos as the only volume group 06:29 < ocnios> Howeever when i 'ls' in /dev/ it shows sda1, sda2, and centos 06:30 < jml2> ocnios, the best documentation for lvm is redhat, as they always improve it 06:30 < jml2> ocnios, lvm partitions by themselves are not usable -- they need to belong to a virtual "lvm group" -- the lvm group then contains "lvm volumes" 06:30 < ocnios> If PV /dev/sda2/ contains VG 'centos' - why are centos, sda1, and sda2 all listed in /dev/ 06:30 < kruug> ah well, I'll wait until the morning to ask in ##proxmox. Thanks rascul 06:31 < jml2> ocnios, so this is why the device is virtual --> /dev/mapper/lvm-volume 06:31 < rascul> ocnios because they're all devices that the kernel has found and made available for other things to access 06:31 < jml2> ocnios, its 3 stages 06:31 < rascul> ocnios just because lvm uses /dev/sda2 doesn't mean /dev/sda2 is going to disappear 06:32 < jml2> ocnios, /dev/mapper/lvm_volumes are your devices to set to mountpoints 06:32 < jml2> ocnios, the lvm-dm2 kernel module scans for lvm partitions , looks for lvm metadata and automatically maps lvm volumes to /dev/mapper/__ 06:33 < ocnios> So, would it be correct to say that PV /dev/sda2/ contains VG 'centos' which contains both LV root and LV swap? 06:33 < jml2> ocnios, there's different commands to list lvm partitions, and lvm volumes 06:33 < jml2> ocnios, no it would be incorrect 06:33 < jml2> ocnios, VG is virtual.. 06:34 < rascul> ocnios in this case, yes 06:34 < rascul> i'm not sure what jml2 is going on about 06:35 < jml2> you can us pvdisplay, when you start using more than 1 drive, it is better not to assume incorrectly at the start 06:35 < jml2> ./can use./ 06:35 < rascul> if centos spanned multiple physical volumes, then /dev/sda2 would not contain centos 06:35 < ayecee> ocnios: VG 'centos' contains PV /dev/sda2, and LV root and LV swap are on VG 'centos' 06:35 < ayecee> is the way you'd say that 06:36 < rascul> it's only right in this specific case because it is all on /dev/sda2 06:36 < ocnios> rascul: but since it doesn't span multiple physical volumes, it does, yes? 06:36 < ocnios> Ok. 06:36 < rascul> but it's probably not how you should normally refer to it 06:36 < rascul> see ayecee's lines above 06:37 < ocnios> Would it be more correct to say /dev/centos/swap and /dev/centos/root are mounted to VG centos which is mounted to PV /dev/sda2? Or am I now just butchering mount points? 06:38 < ayecee> no, there's nothing about that that is correct 06:38 < ayecee> one mounts filesystems 06:38 < rascul> yeah mounting isn't the correct term 06:39 < jml2> ocnios, https://access.redhat.com/webassets/avalon/d/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux-6-Logical_Volume_Manager_Administration-en-US/images/3364895cdeb4a5c194db1c1fae0bce10/stripedvol.png 06:39 < jml2> ocnios, https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/6/html-single/logical_volume_manager_administration/index#lv_overview 06:39 < ocnios> So top level would be the VG, in this case VG centos 06:39 < jml2> ocnios, best thing to learn it is to stick with redhat documentation -- the explanation from their site is very good 06:40 < jml2> ocnios, the appropriate term would be "mapping" as that's what "dm" stands for.. it is mapping a virtual devices into /dev/mapper/___ 06:40 < liveuser1> hi 06:40 < jml2> ocnios, /dev/mapper/* are not mountpoints but virtual block devices 06:41 < jim> ocnios, I'm not sure about the words, but the most basic part of lvm is the pv or physical volume... ultimately things are allocated from them. a PV would go on a single storage unit, like a partition, or a raid volume or something like that. do you understand that part? 06:42 < liveuser1> jim what are you doing running in circles 06:42 < rascul> why run? cars exist 06:43 < ocnios> So there's not really anything physical about a physical volume 06:44 < jim> ocnios, well you need to "write" a physical volume to something like a partition 06:44 < rascul> sda2 would be a logical abstraction of a physical volume, so there's something physical there somewhere 06:44 < jml2> ocnios, the dm-2 module scans metadata/extends and then is able to createa virtual device from there 06:45 < jml2> ocnios, the "organization" data is at the head of the partitions .. you can think it that way... without going too much into detail... 06:45 < ocnios> Im saying that a 'physical volume' could span multiple physically tangible disks/devices 06:45 < jim> ocnios, and, the way you write a PV to a partition (say, /dev/sda2 for example), is: pvcreate /dev/sda2 06:46 < jml2> ocnios, shouldn't use non-redhat terminology.. redhat calls is physical partitions :) 06:46 < jim> ocnios, let's take the most basic case first 06:46 < jim> one partition, one pv 06:47 < rascul> ocnios technically yes, if for example that physical volume is a raid array, but as far as lvm is concerned, a physical volume is a partition 06:47 < jim> the above is how you make a pv 06:47 < jml2> ocnios, physical partitions are dumb, in order to make logical volumes "sizable" (which cannot be done easily with physical partitions), they are created within VG groups... 06:47 < rascul> a volume group can span multiple partitions 06:48 < jim> I (personally) haven't started talking about VGs, just PVs :) 06:49 < jml2> redhat really means "physical partitions" - - https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/6/html/logical_volume_manager_administration/physvol_admin 06:49 < jml2> and that confuses users who are new to this 06:49 * jml2 digresses 06:49 < jim> right, a single pv would go on a single partition 06:50 < jim> it's important to understand this 06:50 < rascul> https://bigdatamission.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/lvm.jpg 06:51 < rascul> ocnios maybe that image is helpful 06:52 < jim> ocnios, need some feedback here :) do you understand that part? 06:53 < ocnios> jim yeah 06:54 < rascul> all this lvm stuff can be confusing at first 06:54 < ocnios> so that photo... 06:55 < ocnios> /dev/sda1 is both a partition and a physical volume? 06:55 < rascul> yes 06:55 < ocnios> ok i need to pause here then 06:55 < jim> ocnios, ok :) so, the simplest way, is one drive, and one partition, and that partition gets made into a PV 06:55 < rascul> might be more appropriate to say the partition /dev/sda1 is used as a physical volume 06:55 < jim> yeah that would work 06:56 < ocnios> rascul: helpful. im wondering why if /dev/sda1 is both a parition and a pv, why not just have it be one thing, instead of two 06:56 < jim> just like you could use a partition as an ext4 filesystem, it can also be used as an lvm physical volume 06:56 < ocnios> why not go right from har drive (per photo) to PV 06:56 < liveuser1> jim what are you doing running in circles did you leache some hive funds? 06:57 < ayecee> wat 06:57 < ocnios> or is it just to allow the option to have multiple partitions and pv's on one hard drive 06:57 < jim> wide angle totempole? 06:57 < ayecee> wat: https://i.imgur.com/LEc5z.jpg 06:58 < rascul> ocnios probably they drew it that way to show how lvm distinguishes it as a physical volume compared to how the kernel sees it as a partition 06:58 < ocnios> ahhhhhh 06:59 < rangergord> Hi. I have two Ubuntu 16.04 systems, one running desktop, and one server. Both are on the same DHCP network, and have an identical /etc/network/interfaces. However, DNS lookups don't work on the server. If I run the nslookup command and explicitly set the server to 1.1.1.1, then it works. I'd like to understand how you're supposed to troubleshoot this (not just solve it by adding a manual nameserver entry to /etc/network/interface 06:59 < ocnios> still want to pause for one second 06:59 < rangergord> Here's my default interfaces file ,as well as the output of nslookup: https://hastebin.com/saqohisote.txt 07:00 < rangergord> It's not really tech support, cause I know how to fix it, but I want to get better at Linux troubleshooting 07:00 < jim> ocnios, a physical volume is a specially formated partition, just like an ext4 filesystem is another kind of specially formated partition... do you see how a partition could be used as one or the other? 07:01 < jim> rangergord, just a second, I'll look at your interfaces file in a bit 07:01 < jml2> i wouldn't go into detail ... i would consider physical volumes confusing, and just refer to them as physical partitions -- which are dumb by themselves. 07:01 < ocnios> jim xfs? 07:01 < Prof_Birch> Theoretically, a chroot should be able to do anything it wants with no restrictions, right? 07:01 < rangergord> cheers jim. spoiler: it's empty, it's just "auto lo \ iface lo inet loopback" 07:02 < jml2> Prof_Birch, if the mountpoint is rw... generally yes 07:02 < Prof_Birch> jml2: Thank you 07:02 < jml2> Prof_Birch, what you smokin? 07:02 < Prof_Birch> Not too much, just still learning 07:02 < jml2> Prof_Birch, I wouldn't say "anything" 07:02 < jim> ocnios, an xfs filesystem is a third way you could format the partition 07:02 < Prof_Birch> Nothing like a project that's over my head to learn about things 07:02 < jml2> Prof_Birch, many things do not run properly in a chroot -- ideally it is for development/debugging or rescue boot 07:03 < rascul> rangergord is /etc/resolv.conf properly set on the server? 07:03 < ocnios> jim so a PV is like an 'encoding' of a Partition 07:03 < rascul> your dhcp client should be taking care of that if you're getting dns servers via dhcp 07:03 < Prof_Birch> jml2: can you give me an example of something that doesn't work properly, and an example why? 07:03 < ocnios> im using non red hat words on purpose, sorry if its not ideal 07:03 < jim> ocnios, exactly 07:04 < rascul> rangergord doesn't look like you're using /etc/network/interfaces, so... networkmanager? 07:04 < jml2> Prof_Birch, hahaha you can read this up online 07:04 < ocnios> otherwise, a partiton is just unusable space because it had no encoding jim 07:04 < rangergord> rascul: the desktop has the entry "nameserver 127.0.1.1" while server is completely empty. It says not to edit this by hand. Where does this setting come from? 07:04 < ocnios> has* 07:04 < jml2> Prof_Birch, the new chroot these days is "systemd-nspawn" for doing docker-like things 07:04 < Prof_Birch> I saw, that forces me to replace the init system, but I am considering that anyway 07:04 < jml2> Prof_Birch, chroot will still be around for anohter decade at least ... 07:05 < rangergord> rascul: how can I find out what is being used? THis is the sort of stuff I want to learn 07:05 < jim> ocnios, yes, that's true... if a partition isn't formated with something, it can be considered "unusable" 07:05 < rascul> rangergord ok i think i see what's happening, on the desktop it would appear as if you have a local dns server running (probably dnsmasq) which is why you have a localhost ip there for the nameserver, on the server you probably don't have dnsmasq running for that function 07:05 < rangergord> rascul: FYI, the server's interfaces file had explicit dhcp set for enp0s3 and s8, I just commented them out and rebooted to have identical settings. It wasn't working with explicit DHCP either. 07:05 < ocnios> ok that makes a lot more sense jim 07:05 < Prof_Birch> jml2: I like that chroot can meddle with the host system. Is that possible with systemd-nspawn? I'm not too familiar with containerization 07:05 < jml2> Prof_Birch, if you want to have an idea of "chroot" things, you'd be interested in docker 07:06 < jml2> Prof_Birch, you should be reading up about "cgroups" --- it's hte new way to allocate resources... 07:06 < rangergord> rascul: basically the commented out parts of /etc/network/interfaces for server, were initially not commented out. I then set them to be identical to help me troubleshoot. 07:06 < ocnios> so you buy a hard drive, section it into pieces for example, but you cant' use those pieces until you 'encode' or 'format' them into a PV jim 07:06 < jml2> Prof_Birch, with chroot you cannot allocate resources ... but with cgroups/systemd/docker you can... 07:06 < rascul> rangergord do you control the dhcp server? 07:06 < Prof_Birch> Ah, custom kernel again 07:06 < jml2> Prof_Birch, that means better "namespaces" (virtual zones) where you can have different routing tables for docker containers, etc.. 07:07 < rangergord> rascul: yeah it's just 2 VMs in Virtualbox, using the default network. VBox creates a DHCP server, and if you assign a "NAT" adapter to the VMs, it uses it for network 07:07 < jml2> Prof_Birch, cgroups is interbreeded among systemd and docker... 07:07 < Prof_Birch> can those virtual zones interact with system daemons in other containers 07:07 < rangergord> both have an identical network config in VBox, namely a NAT adapter 07:07 < jml2> Prof_Birch, with chroot you cannot allocate cgroups with it... 07:07 < rascul> rangergord gimme a few minutes, gotta do something here 07:07 < rangergord> rascul: no worries 07:07 < jim> ocnios, so far: we have the physical volume, which from now on we'll call a pv, which is one of many possible "encodings" of a partition (others include an ext4 filesystem, an xfs filesystem, swap space) 07:07 < ocnios> then one you can use all of your (now formatted) PV's, you can group them all together into a VG to expand the size/space across multiple hard drives jim 07:08 < jim> ocnios, yes, exactly. I think you have the picture now 07:08 < jml2> Prof_Birch, if chroot was extensible -- or extended -- cgroups wouldn't be needed -- but the problem is a lot of development is used with chroot -- so better that something in parallel is created from scratch 07:08 < jim> right, that's what a vg is, and it's the entity that can span drives 07:08 < jml2> Prof_Birch, yeah -- via "network namespaces" 07:08 < jml2> Prof_Birch, you can use virtual network devices :) 07:08 < jim> basically it 07:08 < jim> is a list of PVs 07:09 < Prof_Birch> Ok. I'll have to do some research into it. These are still some foreign concepts to me 07:09 < ocnios> jim so once you have this giant multi disk spanning VG - you start breaking it down into smaller sections (LV's) that all reside 'within' (or connected to) the VG jim 07:09 < jml2> Prof_Birch, you'll like it because that gets you into gear for professional admin :P 07:09 < Prof_Birch> Thanks! I come here to learn 07:09 < jim> ocnios, yep, exactly 07:10 < rangergord> is there a future for professional admins, in this age of "put it in the cloud"? 07:10 < jml2> ocnios, that's correct 07:10 < jml2> ocnios, and that diagram I gave ya shows this! :p 07:10 < ocnios> jim so is there a "master" disk that holds authority for the VG? 07:10 < jim> that part I don't know :) 07:11 < Prof_Birch> Oh! If I am reading this right, cgroups allow for multiple PID1s since their virtual whole systems, dividing the physical resources between them without emulating a processor 07:11 < jim> but I think the volume group goes on one or more PVs 07:11 < ayecee> a vg _contains_ one or more pvs 07:11 < jml2> ocnios, that is called "data management" -- where you can easily manage(resize/delete,add), logical volumes with ease --- with physical partitions this is not possible without destructively putting filesystems offline, etc.. 07:11 < ocnios> ayecee you're not really helping lol 07:12 < jim> ayecee, right, but now we're talking about where the vg (the list of pvs) is stored 07:12 < ayecee> it wouldn't be 07:12 < jml2> Prof_Birch, cgroups is for allocating ram, cpu power to "virtual machines" essentially 07:13 < jml2> Prof_Birch, its for putting restrictions for anything that uses cgroups. 07:13 < ayecee> the pv metadata would indicate the vg it belongs to, would be my guess 07:13 < jml2> Prof_Birch, docker happens to be an agent of cgroups.. 07:13 < jim> well I'm not so sure of that... it's gotta be somewhere :) 07:13 < jml2> Prof_Birch, (as it uses/requests to have allocations for it) 07:13 < Prof_Birch> but they're still technically "bare metal" processes?, like they don't need to fake a processor correct? 07:13 < ocnios> jim so lets say i have a 10 disk VG - a VG by itself holds no fult tolerance / duplicity / hot swap right? 07:14 < jml2> Prof_Birch, paravirtualization .. 07:14 < ocnios> so if 2 of those 10 disks fail, data is lost 07:14 < jml2> Prof_Birch, because the same main system kernel is still utilized.. 07:14 < ocnios> im talking 'out of the box' type situation 07:14 < Prof_Birch> right 07:14 < jml2> Prof_Birch, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paravirtualization 07:14 < jim> maybe, if the LVs have their storage on (either of) those two disks 07:14 < Prof_Birch> Yeah, I'm reading through all the concepts on wikipedia. Thanks for the guidance 07:14 < jml2> Prof_Birch, so you're not emulating an entire machine -- only those snippets that need only a certain set of resources via cgroup things 07:15 < jim> you might get lucky, and the LVs are intact because they didn't get allocated from the PVs on the failed drives 07:15 < ocnios> jim so for N+1, a situation where you'd need redundancy, you'd have 2 mirrored VG's? 07:15 < vrdhn> is there _any way_ kernel can , copy the data coming from network to a user-addressable buffer, and tell notify it when done ? 07:16 < ayecee> vrdhn: that's basically what a read() does, no? 07:16 < rascul> rangergord i'm back 07:16 < jml2> Prof_Birch, in a way it is redefined to another term -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docker_(software) 07:16 < jml2> Prof_Birch, but it's scathing across those two terminologies 07:16 < rascul> rangergord your ubuntu desktop is almost certainly using network manager, and is running dnsmasq locally for dns resolution 07:16 < jim> ocnios, that's a question I don't know the answer to... we can dig into things and find out I guess 07:16 < jml2> Prof_Birch, sort of like "what is a cloud service" ? 07:17 < Prof_Birch> Yeah, I've heard of docker before. I just never used it 07:17 < jml2> Prof_Birch, it's something that is still evolving 07:17 < ocnios> jim, and could you think of / call a multi disk VG a 'cluster' 07:17 < toothe> anyone run x2go? If so, experiences? 07:17 < rascul> rangergord your ubuntu server appears to be configured in /etc/network/interfaces and is probably using ifupdown, and is not running dnsmasq locally for dns resolution 07:17 < ocnios> or would you simple call it a VG 07:17 < ayecee> ocnios: more likely you'd have PVs that are raid devices 07:17 < jml2> Prof_Birch, you'll be reading in circles on definitions, but the main idea is, that they are "chroot-like" --- but chroot with better resource allocations 07:17 < vrdhn> ayecee, for non-blocking, it'll copy from kernel to user 07:17 < vrdhn> i guess i'm looking for kqueue, or an socket-aio 07:17 < rascul> rangergord the simplest solution would be to set your nameservers on your server in /etc/resolv.conf 07:17 < ocnios> ayecee: thanks 07:18 < jim> I personally would just call it a VG... even if it has things in common with (say) a cluster 07:18 < rascul> rangergord since it doesn't seem as though you're getting dns servers via dhcp 07:18 < rascul> rangergord we can go to pm if it's too noisy here to follow 07:18 < jml2> Prof_Birch, the power of systemd comes from the fact it can have "cgroup" definitions in unit files... 07:18 < Prof_Birch> jaml2: what happens if both containered systems try to run display servers, such as one is trying to run X, and the other Wayland. I'm having a hard time visualizing how these would interact 07:18 < rascul> heh jaml2 ;) 07:18 < jim> now, having said all that, 07:18 < vrdhn> ayecee, i'm actually thinking of using memfd + sendfile 07:18 < rangergord_> back 07:19 < rascul> oh 07:19 < rascul> rangergord_ you probably missed the stuff i just said heh 07:19 < rangergord_> shitty-ass 3rd world country , with coffeeshop wifi that expires after 1 hour and doesn't let you reconnect 07:19 < rangergord_> rascul: yeah, sorry 07:19 < vrdhn> I wonder how man send files can be active at a time ! 07:19 < rascul> rangergord_ your ubuntu desktop is almost certainly using network manager, and is running dnsmasq locally for dns resolution 07:19 < jim> you could have a raid5 or a raid10 which spans at least 4 drives (or in your example, it could span 10 drives) 07:19 < rascul> rangergord_ your ubuntu server appears to be configured in /etc/network/interfaces and is probably using ifupdown, and is not running dnsmasq locally for dns resolution 07:19 < jml2> Prof_Birch, you're probably best then to study q*os -- which does something like that 07:20 < rascul> rangergord_ the simplest solution would be to set your nameservers on your server in /etc/resolv.conf 07:20 < rangergord_> rascul: how would I know? What can I look at (rather than guess) to authoritatively say "oh, this system is using XYZ for network management" 07:20 < Prof_Birch> I just am curious how they would conflict 07:20 < jml2> Prof_Birch, https://www.qubes-os.org/ 07:20 < Prof_Birch> I have to deal with Androids display server and Linuxs 07:20 < jim> and depending on the raid level, you could remove failed drives, and the raid would still be intact 07:20 < jml2> Prof_Birch, it isolates each application to its own container 07:20 < ocnios> jim so you'd redundancy the drives and PV's that make up the VG and not the VG itself as normal practice 07:21 < rascul> rangergord_ i guess if you wanted to do that the first step would be to see if networkmanager is installed 07:21 < rascul> rangergord_ you can run 'nmcli c' to see what connections networkmanager is managing 07:21 < jim> ocnios, well what I'm saying here, is redundancy would be provided by the raid setup 07:21 < rangergord_> rascul: network-manager is installed on desktop, not on server 07:21 < ocnios> gotcha 07:21 < rangergord_> you were right 07:21 < rascul> rangergord_ as expected 07:22 < jml2> Prof_Birch, that uses xen 07:22 < ocnios> even though RAID isn't redundant lol jim 07:22 < rangergord_> I don't recall ever messing with any of Ubuntu's system packages. Why would server and desktop be so different? 07:22 < jim> ok... now that we have this fictional raid array of 10 drives, 07:22 < jim> we can put one single pv on it 07:22 < jim> one pv to be on the whole raid array 07:23 < rascul> rangergord_ because it's meant for servers, it comes with only a minimal set of packages and not the convenience stuff meant for desktops 07:23 < jml2> Prof_Birch, iirc it is more powerhungry- because would be more demanding than cgroups 07:23 < rangergord_> rascul: what are the alternatives to network-manager? systemd-networkd? Like if I wanted to learn one thing and use that for the rest of my life 07:23 < ayecee> rangergord_: lol good luck with that 07:23 < revel> There's dhcpcd 07:23 < jim> ocnios, if you do that, then your vg might have just that pv in it 07:23 < rangergord_> ayecee: idk systemd seems to be the mainstream now 07:23 < jml2> rangergord_, ubuntu since 17.10 came up with something easier to setup networking with "netplan" 07:24 < ocnios> jim i may get lost again, i thought you said earlier that it's one PV per partition 07:24 < jml2> rangergord_, which uses a .yaml config in /etc/netplan 07:24 < rascul> rangergord_ heh there's no one thing, as you can see ubuntu can use two separate mechanisms depending on server or desktop, there's a plethora of other options, and there's no telling what's coming in the future 07:24 < rangergord_> jml2: specific to Ubuntu only? :/ 07:24 < jml2> rangergord_, yeah.. 07:24 < jml2> rangergord_, afaict.. they're the ones behind it 07:24 < notmike> Jim thank you 07:24 < rascul> rangergord_ pastebin your /etc/network/interfaces on the server if you don't mind 07:25 < jml2> rangergord_, if it is not used, then you need to configure NM --- but netplan creates a rendered setup for NM -- it's confusing -- but the "setup" is much easier. 07:25 < rascul> rangergord_ this can potentially be solved by adding a single line, i just want to make sure you put it in the right place 07:25 < rangergord_> rascul: same paste as before: the top half is server, bottom half is desktop. I lost the link. 07:25 < jml2> rangergord_, (explanation is difficult -- but setup is easy) 07:25 < jim> (AND, if you have another 10-disk raid array... (hope you have a great power supply), you could make a pv out of that raid array, and add that pv to your vg 07:25 < jim> ) 07:25 < jml2> rangergord_, https://netplan.io/ 07:25 < ocnios> Jim and since you HAVE to partition disks, then format those partitons before you can use them, how would you make a multi disk PV? Or does that just work in this fictional example because RAID. 07:25 < jim> notmike, welcome.... umm, for what :) 07:25 < jml2> rangergord_, this was the announcement -- https://blog.ubuntu.com/2017/12/01/ubuntu-bionic-netplan 07:25 < rascul> rangergord_ one minute 07:25 < ayecee> ocnios: you don't have to partition disks for a PV 07:26 < ayecee> ocnios: a PV can be any block device, including a raid device 07:26 < jim> ocnios, by putting it on a raid :) 07:26 < jml2> ocnios, you're not looking at the picture I gave you :)) 07:26 < jml2> ocnios, VG contains PV :) --- don't think "physical" --- think "virtual" :) 07:27 < ocnios> ayecee but if you DO partition, you can only do one PV per partition. 07:27 < jml2> ocnios, you only have to care about VG and LV volumes when doing data management. 07:27 < jim> ocnios, see, now that you have the basic picture of what lvm is, we can start talking about the possible combinations :) 07:27 < ocnios> So the partitioning is optional. 07:27 < jim> yes 07:27 < ayecee> ocnios: sounds correct 07:27 < jim> you could use the whole drive (or whole raid array) 07:27 < ayecee> that is, a PV can be a partition, a whole disk, or a raid device 07:28 < ayecee> as long as it's a block device 07:28 < jim> yes 07:28 < ocnios> im almost affaid to ask... 07:28 < jml2> ocnios, you can have multiple volumes in one VG.. and that is usually enough for workstations 07:28 < ocnios> what is the definition of a block device 07:28 < rascul> rangergord_ try this http://termbin.com/n4wr 07:28 < rangergord_> jml2: idk, feels like a waste to learn something Ubuntu-specific. If I learn to set up and troubleshoot something like raw networkd, that's portable to most major distros. 07:29 < jml2> rangergord_, it doesn't change networkd or NM -- if you read the um url I gave you-- it makes configuring netword and NM with renderers. 07:29 < ocnios> jml2: multiple volumes in one VG, are those volumes LV's or PV's 07:29 < ayecee> ocnios: stores and retrieves blocks of data, compared to a character device. 07:29 < jml2> rangergord_, netplan cannot operate with NM or networkd 07:29 < rangergord_> jml2, yeah, I know, but you're adding an abstraction layer 07:29 < jml2> rangergord_, so it doesn't replace them 07:29 < jml2> rangergord_, imho it actualy makes things easier -- but they're doing it more for the cloud automation of things 07:29 < jim> rangergord_, yeah, it's true... /etc/network/interfaces is a debian invention (therefore it gets inherited by ubuntu (for one) 07:30 < jml2> ocnios, VG are VG... 07:30 < jml2> ocnios, https://access.redhat.com/webassets/avalon/d/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux-6-Logical_Volume_Manager_Administration-en-US/images/3364895cdeb4a5c194db1c1fae0bce10/stripedvol.png 07:30 < ocnios> jml2: you said "multiple volumes in a VG" 07:31 < jml2> ocnios, yeah.. "lv volumes" 07:31 < ayecee> ocnios: a VG can be composed of multiple PVs, and contain multiple LVs. 07:31 < jml2> ocnios, /dev/mapper/lv_something <<< is always a LV volume 07:31 < jml2> ocnios, you can only mount LV volumes.. 07:31 < jim> ocnios, I think in his example, he means: one drive, one partition, you make it a PV, put it into a VG, and then you can make a bunch of LVs from that VG 07:31 < jml2> ocnios, that's the only thing you can ever mount so that you can have a mountpoint against /dev/mapper/something 07:32 < ocnios> you can only ever mount what, filesystems, yes 07:32 < jml2> ocnios, there are commands to view VG memberships -- PV memberships --- usually you never bother with PV memberships, because 90% of the time you stick around with manageming LV volumes witthin VG groups 07:33 < jim> right 07:33 < jml2> ocnios, yes.. so if you just created an LV volume, and it is not mounted, you do -> mke2fs /dev/mapper/_lv_vol_something_ 07:33 < rangergord_> rascul: that works, I had tried setting DNS explicitly. But I thought setting DHCP was enough, and would forward requests to whatever the DHCP server set as DNS. I wanted to figure out why that didn't work. Thanks! 07:33 < ocnios> and a filesystem is a segment of a LV OR a VG yes 07:33 < jim> but we haven't quite gotten there yet (even though I think you understand the whole picture now) 07:33 < jml2> ocnios, then mount /mnt /dev/mapper/_lv_vol_something_ 07:33 < ocnios> because VG's can contain LV's or file systems? 07:33 < rangergord_> jml2: have you been using netplan? any chance of it being adopted by other distros? 07:33 < rascul> rangergord_ for whatever reason your dhcp server doesn't seem to be giving out a nameserver to use 07:34 < jml2> rangergord_, i shouldn't care about that 07:34 < jml2> rangergord_, lol 07:34 < jim> ocnios, you can put a filesystem on an LV 07:34 < jml2> rangergord_, but its there 07:34 < rangergord_> jml2: I'm still on 16.04, but I will be moving to 18.04 once Virtualbox supports it better 07:34 < rascul> rangergord_ ubuntu desktop handled that by using dnsmasq locally for name resolution, but ubuntu server apparently doesn't have any mechanism setup by default to handle that for you 07:34 < jml2> rangergord_, and helps at least for me because i actually upgraded one of my machines to 17.++ 07:34 < ocnios> jim can you put filesystems on a VG? 07:35 < rangergord_> rascul: got it 07:35 < jim> no, but you can allocate an LV from a VG and put the filesystem on the LV 07:35 < stevendale> Hey 07:35 < jml2> ocnios, in essence /dev/mapper/_lv_something_ acts like /dev/sda1 ... these are called "block devices" 07:35 < jim> hi 07:35 < rangergord_> jml2: I don't bother with those 6 month releases, I tend to stick to LTS 07:35 < jml2> ocnios, but really I shouldn't say "act like" -- just I should use the term "block device" 07:35 < jml2> ocnios, just refer to them as "block devices" 07:36 < jml2> ocnios, and people will understand... 07:36 < jml2> ocnios, LV volumes are block devices.. 07:36 < jim> ocnios, and the good thing about LVM is, it's been around for probably longer than 18 years, and it's currently rock solid 07:37 < jml2> rangergord_, the syntax is there -- and is easy to use --- but its a good thing its not meant to replace NM or networkd 07:37 < ocnios> I think what's so weird about VG's is that you make a VG from small parts (disks) but then to use the VG you break it back down to smaller (virtual) parts. 07:37 < ocnios> Maybe that's why so many people find them confusing 07:37 < jim> you just have to get used to it 07:37 < jml2> rangergord_, otherwise that might create a lot of stirup among floss fans 07:37 < jml2> rangergord_, and I am a floss fan! :p 07:37 < jml2> rangergord_, it is installed by default on 17+++ 07:38 < rangergord_> good point, I should floss more often 07:38 < ayecee> i am also enthusiastic about dental care 07:38 < jml2> rangergord_, however when I upgraded, it didn't install it --- my ifupdown setup was not faultered.. 07:38 < rascul> i brushed my teeth this month 07:38 < jml2> rangergord_, netplan has no ifupdown rendered .. so therefore the two would be incompatible with one another ... either netplan or ifupdown 07:38 < jim> ocnios, well, the VG (being a list of PVs) allow you to put PVs onto whatever devices you have, and group them into a VG 07:38 < jml2> ./"renderer" 07:39 < rangergord_> rascul: easy there Ryan Reynolds. that's way above average for a Linux entusiast 07:39 < rascul> ;) 07:39 < ocnios> jim so the vg is just a list, like a phone book 07:39 < jim> yep 07:39 < ocnios> or a map 07:39 < ocnios> ok 07:39 < jim> right, or a map 07:40 < rascul> i would never use netplan if i had the choice, i abhore yaml 07:40 < jml2> ocnios, if you've installed centos/fedora things, you dont have to use an lvm scheme, you can instead use /dev/sda1 for /boot and /dev/sda2 for / 07:40 < jml2> ocnios, and have ext4 immediately on /dev/sda2 -- no lvm anywhere 07:40 < jim> but you have to have a vg, it's what you tell the system to allocate the LVs from 07:41 < jml2> rascul, netplan is not a replacement for NM or networkd .. read the blogs :P 07:41 < stevendale> The hive cluster is under attack! 07:41 < rascul> i know it's not, i just hope it doesn't become so in the future 07:42 < jml2> rascul, but it does create some confusion --- while at the same time making net configuration simpler -- they're doing it more likely for cloud automation 07:42 < rascul> it's canonical, so who knows what they're going to do 07:42 < ocnios> jim so is this accurate https://i.imgur.com/hINM3LT.png 07:42 * jim looks under the tack 07:42 < rascul> /etc/network/interfaces isn't simple enough? 07:42 < jml2> rascul, I hope netplan stops there --- htere's enough confusion with NM and systemd things for networking. 07:42 < jml2> rascul, so I mean.. this does add that extra "wtf" factor 07:42 < jml2> rascul, XD 07:43 < rascul> i bet some canonical devs just couldn't read ifupdown docs or something 07:43 < stevendale> The thing I don't like about /etc/network/interfaces is if you're travelling, there's no way to tell the SSID without having another computer to scan using a more bloated tool 07:43 < rascul> that's how mir came around too 07:43 < jml2> rascul, ifupdown is not systemd/dbus ready.. 07:43 < kuri0> is there a kernel / driver level way to set an icc profile ? 07:43 < jml2> rascul, and will never be 07:43 < rascul> jml2 why does it need to be? 07:43 < kuri0> so it works in places other than Xorg 07:43 < jml2> rascul, it doesn 07:43 < jml2> rascul, if you dont want to switch --- I ugpraded a ubuntu system with ifupdown on it 07:43 < jml2> rascul, and netplan wasn't installed. so this is good. 07:44 < rascul> i'm not ever going to switch to ubuntu anyway ;) 07:44 < stevendale> I use wicd-curses nowadays, it's not as bloated as NetworkManager's nm-applet, and it's not as minimal as using /etc/network/interfaces 07:44 < jml2> but it'll be there by default when you install a *buntu these days 07:44 < jim> ocnios, yes it is... so, we see another function of the vg: to "have" a list of the LVs that were created from it 07:44 < jml2> you need to know it is there, otherwise you'll not know how to configure your network effectively XD 07:45 < ocnios> jim the VG still creeps me out a bit 07:45 < jml2> funny thing is that NM has a "plugin" for ifupdown 07:45 < jml2> ^ 07:45 < jml2> think about that... lol... 07:45 < jim> ocnios, therefore questions like this are valid: "what are the LVs in VG myvg, and the LVs in VG yourvg 07:45 < stevendale> If it were Arch I would use wifi-menu, since that's more reliable than using the wicd-daemon: which has a tantrum if you have NetworkManager services in systemctl/systemd enabled or running :P 07:45 < jim> " 07:45 < rascul> jml2 indeed it does 07:45 < jml2> netplan-> NM, netplan has no rendered for ifupdown, but hey you can have a NM plugin for ifupdown <<< and that's confusing 07:45 < ocnios> jim because it's like a vagabond that just roams around. it doesn't 'live' anywhere. 07:46 < rangergord_> "You've already used our WIFI service today" Australia is a shithole when it comes to public internet. 07:47 < rangergord_> I wish I hadn't gotten side-tracked by the DNS thing, I needed to run a large "npm install" and I can't do that on my phone 07:47 * toothe needs a new PenTseting laptop. 07:47 < toothe> This weird machine isn't cutting it. 07:48 < rascul> i just use a scrap piece of paper to test pens 07:48 < ocnios> jim: is all you need a kernel to start making partitions, PV's, then a VG? 07:48 < jim> ocnios, in the very beginning when I was first playing with LVM, the question of where the VG is stored did worry me a bit 07:48 < Prof_Birch> jml2: It doesn't seem like docker is well set up for GUI 07:48 < stevendale> Hi Prof_Birch 07:48 < rascul> docker isn't setup well for very much 07:49 < Prof_Birch> stevendale: Hello! 07:49 < jml2> Prof_Birch, docker is not created for GUI... 07:49 < jml2> Prof_Birch, lol 07:49 < stevendale> I completed my Hoenn Pokedex Prof_Birch, what do I do now daddy~? 07:49 < jml2> Prof_Birch, though there are many front-guis for it :) 07:49 < jml2> Prof_Birch, "service" --- "cloud" services.... 07:49 * jml2 dares Prof_Birch to complain to docker developers that it lacks a "gui" XD 07:49 < Prof_Birch> jml2: I have been using chroot to access a guest arch distro, and launch X11 07:49 < jim> ocnios, well, you would need a kernel with support for LVM and for the filesystems you want to use 07:50 < ocnios> gotcha 07:50 < jml2> Prof_Birch, right, but it doesn't make it secure.. chroot has full of holes :) 07:50 < jml2> lol 07:50 < Prof_Birch> jml2: I am actually looking for the opposite of security. I want Arch to be able to access all Android system files 07:50 < jml2> ok good for you 07:51 < jim> ocnios, the code for lvm, is mostly in userland, with the kernel stuff being something called a device mapper 07:51 < stevendale> I mean, so does Windows and most Android devices, but people still use those for internet banking and stuff right? 07:51 < Prof_Birch> jml2: I am not sure that it can fit my use case 07:52 < ocnios> jim so is the kernal what maps block devices? 07:52 < stevendale> You can even use Paywave with your phone nowadays I think 07:53 < jim> for LVM, yes. the device mapper has other uses, but the original use is for lvm 07:53 < Prof_Birch> I can use docker to start a separate init system, but I need to be able to launch X, and I need to be able to mount --bind the external filesystems 07:53 < Prof_Birch> At least I think I can 07:54 < ocnios> jim, so the kernel maps block devies, when you can then transform into partitions, format into physical volumes, then make a VG to break down into LV's 07:54 < jim> ocnios, ok... let's try to look at a real situation... is your system using LVM now? 07:55 < jim> essentially yes 07:55 < jml2> ocnios, the dm-2 module 07:55 < jml2> ocnios, it has been in the kernel since kernel 3.xx 07:56 < ocnios> jim its all theoretical, im working on work objectives, and legit trying to learn 07:56 < jml2> ocnios, I mean "embedded" within the kernel -- sometimes it is problematic to have it in initrd --- a lot of "customers" having issues XD 07:56 < ocnios> which is why ive spent 2 weeks on this linux module it'd probably take you 5 min to do jim 07:56 < notmike> What up 07:56 < jim> stuff above down 07:57 < ocnios> jim and you only ever mount filesystems to lv's? 07:57 < jim> yes, they are the only mountable things 07:57 < jml2> ocnios, wrong!! 07:57 < ocnios> i get you can only mount filesystems, but can you only mount them TO lv's 07:58 < ocnios> ok 07:58 < jml2> ocnios, you create filesystems on "block devices" --- LV volumes are "block devices" 07:58 < ocnios> so thats why /dev/ mas mount points 07:58 < jml2> ocnios, so you are essentially mount a "block device" (that of course "needs" a fileystem on it) 07:58 < jim> ocnios, you can make an LV named fred, then format fred with an ext4 filesystem, then mount fred on /usr/fred 07:58 < jml2> ocnios, /dev/mapper/_lv_volume_ is a block device 07:59 < jml2> ocnios, the block device contains the "full filesystem" 07:59 < jml2> ocnios, and you don't look anywhere else for a "filesystem" than within the block device itself 08:00 < jim> the way it's represented from the mapper is perhaps a confusing way... /dev/mapper/vg--lvname 08:00 < Prof_Birch> Oh, nevermind. Maybe I can just run docker in privileged mode 08:00 < jml2> it is essentially the LV volume 08:00 < ocnios> jml2: and those filesystems on block devices are just mapped to the VG? 08:00 < jml2> the name is confusing for starters definitely. 08:01 < jim> ocnios, once you activate a VG, it becomes available in /dev as: /dev/vgname/lvname 08:01 < jml2> ocnios, a thumb of rule --> filesystems exists within a block device. 08:01 < ocnios> ok 08:01 < jml2> ocnios, an LV volume is a virtual block device. And you use a filesystem formating tool before you can mount it 08:01 < ocnios> oh! 08:02 < jim> AND, the mapper ALSO puts it in /dev/mapper/vgname--lvname 08:02 < notmike> Thank you 08:02 < ocnios> oh 08:02 < jim> so it's really in two places 08:02 < ocnios> ok 08:02 < ocnios> aha! 08:02 < jml2> ocnios, you didn't know how filesystems work... so now I think you're seeing it 08:03 < jml2> ocnios, non-LVM things work like this->>> /dev/sda1 <<< is useless without being formatted with a filesystem :) - -- /dev/sda1 is a block device.. and an "entire filesystem" needs to "fit" within /dev/sda1 08:03 < ocnios> so there are some similarities between a LV and a VM hosted within an OS on a laptop per se 08:03 < jim> -now-, what is it in /dev/vgname/lvname? they are block device "nodes" 08:03 < jml2> ocnios, same idea with /dev/mapper/_lv_volume_ << a filesystem needs "to fit" within the block device... By default all filesystem formatting tools use 100% of the block space. It makes zero sense for it not to. 08:04 < ocnios> like formatting a USB 08:04 < jml2> ocnios, when you format a block device with a fileystem. 100% of that block device is formatted to that specific filesystem. 08:05 < ocnios> the phrase 'virtual block device' really helped 08:05 < jml2> ok 08:05 < jml2> that's what they are.. 08:05 < jim> ocnios, if you have some unpartitioned disk space, you could make a PV... 08:05 < ayecee> light bulb moment :) 08:05 < jml2> ocnios, now you'll understand how to use cryptsetup when you want to use encrypted filesystems :) 08:06 < jml2> ocnios, once you get to the point you have its "block device" ready in /dev/mapper , then you can mount it :) 08:06 < AngryPepe> anyone tried snapper on Centos 7 after latest update. On my server it gives(org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.Spawn.ExecFailed) 08:06 < AngryPepe> -rwsr-x--- 1 root dbus 58016 4月 11 16:23 /usr/libexec/dbus-1/dbus-daemon-launch-helper all good and tried reinstall *dbus* but still keeps failing 08:06 < ocnios> jml2: cryptsetup works on virtual and physical block devices? 08:06 < jml2> ocnios, essentially I should of said "encrypted block device" --- 08:07 < jml2> ocnios, as cryptsetup would work on blocks and wouldn't care "what filesystem" you use 08:07 < ayecee> heh. virtual block device with encrypted backing store. 08:08 < jml2> ocnios, you wouldn't have to worry about the details for now, as long as you understand that you need to get your "block device" mapped into /dev/mapper, you then can proceed to doing things.. 08:08 < ocnios> jml2: maybe i dont, but i want to 08:09 < jml2> ocnios, that "block device" does not exists, it needs to be assembled -- (hence "virtual block device") 08:09 < ocnios> i mean not RIGHT now, as its just about bed time 08:09 < jml2> ocnios, a similar concept goes with /dev/md0 -- for mdadm things ... 08:09 < ocnios> jml2: i just dont do well when i cant see full picture 08:09 < jml2> ocnios, /dev/md0 is a virtual block device as well 08:09 < ocnios> ahhhh 08:10 < ocnios> at least im not freaking out that pvdisplay doesn't list sda1 anymore 08:12 < ocnios> jml2: is sda1 virtual? 08:12 < ocnios> or, what is it? it's not a PV 08:12 < tomty89> in a sense 08:12 < jml2> ocnios, the word virtual means it needs software to exists 08:12 < ayecee> i suppose any block device is virtual in some way 08:12 < jml2> ocnios, raw sectors are not virtual 08:12 < ayecee> since a block device is an abstraction 08:13 < ocnios> gotcha 08:13 < ocnios> so what is sda1 then 08:13 < jml2> ocnios, i just told you. 08:13 < tomty89> it's partition, i.e. a range of logical blocks 08:13 < jml2> ocnios, they are "raw sectors" 08:13 < ayecee> a block device representing a partition 08:13 < ocnios> ohhh 08:13 < ocnios> sda1 is a partition, not a PV 08:13 < jim> a device node that refers to the kernel driver "sd" 08:13 < jml2> ocnios, raw sectors do not need "software" to exists as part of a block device :) 08:13 < jim> right, but a pv could be written to sda1 08:13 < tomty89> ocnios: a partition can be used as a pv 08:14 < ocnios> jim thank you so much 08:14 < jim> welcome 08:14 < jml2> ocnios, yes and remember what I mentioned earlier 08:14 < ocnios> really means a lot to me when people like you are nice and put up with people like me 08:14 < jml2> ocnios, do not take literally the RH documents "PV" --- think of them as "physical paritions" 08:14 < jml2> ocnios, I mentioned that is confusing for new users ... technically it is not very formidable 08:15 < ocnios> i might mentally think of them as 'possibly-physical partitions' 08:15 * toothe needs to up his game. 08:15 < toothe> I feel like...I need to invest in more hardware. 08:15 < jim> now, that he has a good solid picture of what's going on, he will probably understand many combinations 08:15 < toothe> Enough of this "minimalistic" stuff i've been doing. 08:15 < jml2> ocnios, when you see "physical" -- think "raw sectors" :p 08:15 < ocnios> jml2: thanks, thats a great thought 08:15 < jml2> ocnios, np 08:16 < ocnios> well except "physical volume" isn't raw - its formatted 08:16 < tomty89> huh? 08:16 < jml2> ocnios, in a way yes... and that's where lvm puts "metadata" 08:16 < jml2> ocnios, but you can thinnk of them as "raw sectors" -- 08:16 < jml2> ocnios, because "physical" is always "physical" :p 08:16 < tomty89> well 08:17 < TaZeR> hey guys i forget the command and cant find it, what is the command when you want what you ran to stay updated on the screen? for example lm_sensors ? 08:17 < tomty89> dm-crypt containers can be used as pv as well 08:17 < TaZeR> so it keeps it running and the output is live 08:17 < ocnios> well for me 'partition = raw' and 'PV = formatted partition' 08:17 < rcf> TaZeR: watch 08:17 < jim> TaZeR, watch? 08:18 < TaZeR> i think so, lemme try it out 08:18 < jml2> ocnios, yes you can think of that way.. but formatted partition that has LVM definitions on it 08:18 < jml2> ocnios, and those "LVM definitions" is something you dont have to worry about 08:18 < ocnios> jml2: so like 'minimal formatting'? 08:18 < jml2> ocnios, RH has terminology around "extents" 08:18 < TaZeR> yes thanks that was it =) 08:18 < jim> or more specifiically, the PV definitions 08:19 < ocnios> RH should hire some better linguists. 08:19 < jml2> ocnios, when you have lower-layer things servicing upper-layer things, --- these things are called "metadata" 08:20 < sauvin> I thought RH had some perfectly cunning linguists. 08:20 < jml2> ocnios, /dev/mapper/_lv_volume << is your data layer 08:20 * sauvin hides 08:20 < jml2> ocnios, PV and VG are your data management layers and contain the metadata 08:20 < ocnios> cunnning != elegant 08:20 < jml2> lol 08:20 < ocnios> or sensible 08:21 < ocnios> alright, well i'd LOVE to talk more but I'm up wayyyy past bedtime 08:21 < jml2> ocnios, you can look this up --- this terminology has been around over the last many decades 08:21 < jml2> ocnios, its the same terminology used for mdadm as well -- "metadata" :P 08:22 * jml2 o/ 08:22 < ocnios> data about data 08:22 < ocnios> gotta love it 08:26 < jim> ocnios, such as: the name of a piece of data, its size in memory and its type 08:27 < ocnios> jim can you skip the VG and go right from PV to LV 08:28 < ocnios> if say you didn't need a vg 08:28 < jim> nope, you gotta have a vg, even if that vg has only one pv 08:28 < ocnios> ok 08:29 < ocnios> what about skipping VG and LV and just having PV and File System 08:29 < Dagmar> No 08:29 < ocnios> ok cool 08:30 < jim> ocnios, in that case, you might as well not use lvm at all, and just format the partition with something else like xfs or ext4 08:30 < ocnios> but you CAN map a File System on one LV to another LV on a totally differnt VG? 08:31 < ayecee> the question doesn't make sense 08:31 < ayecee> probably some words misused there 08:31 < ocnios> mount? 08:31 < jim> well you can move a pv to a different partition, which could include a different disk 08:31 < ayecee> still don't understand what you're asking 08:33 < ocnios> lets say Company A has it's own VG, LV's and File Systems on it. They partner with company B - who also has a setup like that. If both companies need the same File System, could you mount it to a LV in both VG's 08:33 < ayecee> no. nothing about that makes sense. 08:33 < ocnios> Think windows and mapped drives 08:33 < ocnios> on different servers 08:33 < ayecee> doesn't help 08:34 < sauvin> You go ahead and think "mapped drives". I'll think NFS or sshfs. 08:34 < ocnios> oh 08:34 < ocnios> or NFS, sure 08:34 < jim> no, you can't do that,,, it's safest if an LV is only mounted once 08:34 < ayecee> you could have a raid device consisting of LVs from two VGs, but that would be weird. 08:35 < ocnios> not mounting an LV 2x... 08:35 < ocnios> I thought file systems were the only things mounted... 08:35 < ayecee> correct 08:35 < toothe> ugh...LibreImpress totally ruined my presentation formatting :/ 08:36 < ayecee> can't mount LVs, though i guess less formally "mounting an LV" would be mounting the filesystem on the LV 08:36 < Sveta> toothe: use a backup 08:36 < toothe> Sveta: let me rephrase that, sorry 08:36 < Sveta> toothe: export presentation to pdf and show as pdf 08:36 < ocnios> If company A needs to connect say an application it has built/running to an external File System (or internal one) on a separate LV. Can, and if so, how, would you? 08:36 < toothe> Importing a presentation does not render properly 08:37 < ayecee> ocnios: would probably be done via a network filesystem, say cifs or nfs 08:37 < revel> toothe: Importing it from (whatever format Microsoft uses)? 08:37 < ocnios> groovy 08:37 < jim> ocnios, if the app is already running, it's no longer about the disk (whether lvm or not) 08:37 < revel> It doesn't really work well in either direction. 08:38 < toothe> yes. 08:38 < toothe> xlsx 08:38 < sudo_halt> revel: You mean XML/OfficeXML? 08:38 < ocnios> can you mount a NFS? 08:38 < ayecee> yes 08:38 < revel> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 08:38 < ocnios> i guess that's what i was asking 08:39 < ocnios> cool 08:39 < Sveta> toothe: xlsx is a spreadsheet 08:39 < toothe> err..whatever the presentation format is. 08:39 < stevendale> Hi Sveta :) 08:40 < Sveta> toothe: if you upload it to #libreoffice, another user of this program may test how it opens for them 08:40 < revel> I've had problems with Microsoft Office not importing ODF files properly. 08:40 < stevendale> Sveta: 1.73 GHz Single Core Intel in a laptop. What's the oldest laptop/desktop CPU you've got that still works? :) 08:41 < ayecee> #dicksizing 08:41 < sudo_halt> ^ 08:42 < Sveta> revel: my main problem with those was the maths, and the nonsense created by writing formatting in something different than latex 08:43 < Sveta> revel: not a big fan of solving problems that should not exist in the first place 08:48 < sudo_halt> Oracle is switching Java development model to a small-sized yearly updates. 08:48 < sudo_halt> Well, there goes java then. 08:49 * stevendale cries sadly "No Java for XP anymore :( 64-bit OS only..." 08:50 < ayecee> stevendale: shush. 08:50 < sudo_halt> Using XP in 2018. riiiiiiiiiiiight. 08:50 < sauvin> I do, though. 08:51 < sudo_halt> Just use a linux + winXP theme + WINE and you'll get the same experience. 08:51 < sauvin> No, you won't. 08:51 < sudo_halt> DX9.0, cool blue theme, etc. 08:52 < sudo_halt> WINE can most XP-era stuff. you can also theme the desktop to look exactly like XP (see also: Q4OS) 08:52 < sudo_halt> Its just not made by MS /s 08:52 < ayecee> "most" 08:52 < ayecee> but rarely exactly like the original 08:53 < sauvin> It won't my XP-era stuff./ 08:53 < rcf> Considering how much money some enterprise people are throwing at Microsoft to keep XP support, it's obvious even Windows can't run XP-era stuff. 08:54 < Stryyker> notepad from windows 95 still works... 08:54 < sudo_halt> Apple: "We took away the home button!" 08:54 < morf> ha 08:54 < ayecee> more about how risk-averse some industries are 08:54 < sudo_halt> Microsoft: "Hold my beer, We take windows away from windows!" 08:54 < rcf> Well, that, and really bad contracts that assumed IE6 would own the market forever. 08:55 < stevendale> sudo_halt XP runs my games faster natively than Wine... on my 1.73 GHz Intel CPU with 512M memory.... We should take this to ##dos though, this is ##linux 08:55 < sudo_halt> Well, you NEED to upgrade. You cant expect h/w to work forever 08:55 < sudo_halt> and also why ##dos? xD 08:55 < pingfloyd> only alike in a very superficial sense 08:56 < pingfloyd> sudo_halt: they brought it back in 10 08:56 < sudo_halt> brought what back? 08:57 < revel> DOS? 08:57 < pingfloyd> the start button 08:57 < revel> Oh. 08:57 < sudo_halt> Oooooooh 08:57 < sudo_halt> They brought back in 8.1. 08:57 < rcf> Now bloated with advertising. 08:57 < stevendale> XP's is nicer. It can switch to the Windows Classic start theme with none of the fancy garbage. Just a plain menu, the way it should be :) 08:57 < pingfloyd> the entire concept of the start screen was fundamentally flawed. 08:58 < pingfloyd> application/start menus are bad enough even when they take up the entire screen 08:58 < pingfloyd> *when they don't 08:58 < sudo_halt> ^ is that why we have an start menu equivalent in all major Linux DEs? 08:58 < pingfloyd> sudo_halt: I don't use start menus 08:58 < pingfloyd> dmenu or similar ftw 08:58 < sudo_halt> XFCE: whisker, XFappmenu KDE:App menu GNOME: the 'Windows 8 wanna-be' 08:58 < stevendale> On Linux I use obmenu and add shortcuts manually, then Windows + D and right click 08:59 < pingfloyd> the saving grace for windows is having that search (which acts like dmenu and other run dialogs) 09:00 < pingfloyd> the habit of of search/run comes from doing windows admin in the past. Especially if a place has multiple versions of windows that they are supporting. 09:00 < sudo_halt> Lets be honest. Just pressing Uberbutton and type to search is really cool. 09:00 < pingfloyd> finding where they moved the icons each version is a waste of time. 09:01 < pingfloyd> type ahead is the best 09:02 < sudo_halt> Windows is a lot of wasted innovations. If Windows 8 had "start screen" on tablets and a normal desktop on PCs it would be the biggest OS. yet MS just *had* to be MS allover again. 09:02 < day> pingfloyd: if only the search wouldnt search but execute >.< i searched for programs so often insntead of executing them. so annoying 09:03 < pingfloyd> day: search as in run dialog 09:03 < stevendale> MS being MS, striving to be completely different and come up with a brand new, user alienating implementation every release 09:03 < pingfloyd> those will execute if the files are executable 09:04 < pingfloyd> that's because MS can't improve their OS in a fundamental way 09:04 < pingfloyd> so they keep having to resell UIs 09:04 < sudo_halt> Man, coming to think of it, after using Windows 8 on a tablet i cant use anything else. it was the best. Then i installed Win8 on my desktop and i was like 'what the hell???" 09:04 < stevendale> Unlike Linux which releases security updates 09:04 < pingfloyd> their users are practically paying for new DEs 09:04 < stevendale> Look at Ubuntu 12.04, still getting updates for paid customers 09:04 < cmj> what channel is this? 09:04 < day> and new DirectX support :^) 09:05 < sudo_halt> Linux LTS is so good microsoft had to come up with LTSB lol 09:05 < stevendale> cmj ##linux when we're not getting enough people coming in and saying "HELP! I ran a command from /r/linux and now my computer won't start!" 09:05 < sudo_halt> ^^ 09:05 < pingfloyd> what do you expect following the posters of reddit? 09:06 < sudo_halt> running commands from r/linux .... oh my the HORROR 09:06 < pingfloyd> sometimes you'll find little nuggets on it, but most of the info is horrible 09:07 < sudo_halt> "hey i bet if you just flush the entire root of FS your system will get better performance!" 09:07 < sudo_halt> The usuall reddit ^ 09:07 < AngryPepe> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda :) 09:07 < pingfloyd> I though it was, "It's a virus! reinstall OS!" 09:07 < stevendale> sauvin: Somebody isn't familiar with the channel policies 09:08 < Triffid_Hunter> heh or :(){:|:;};: ? 09:08 < pingfloyd> seems like on that forum and pretty much any other web-based forum I've stumbled across, that's the answer for any question where the computer does something unexpected. 09:08 < sudo_halt> The fork bomb. claaaaaaasic. 09:08 * day ---€ Triffid_Hunter 09:09 < sudo_halt> pingfloyd: Have you tried turning it off and back on? 09:09 < revel> Triffid_Hunter: I think there should be a space there somewhere. 09:09 < Triffid_Hunter> revel: yeah probably, possibly an ampersand too, haven't looked at it for a while 09:09 < AngryPepe> I repairing my hdd time to time using command above, just be sure to take a disk out of raid1 then wipe it by command like above, then readd to raid 09:10 < revel> I don't think an ampersand should be needed. 09:11 < revel> 10% CPU execution cap on vbox: WARNING: the VM may feel slow! 09:11 < revel> That's the idea :D 09:11 * stevendale installs Windows on revel's VM 09:11 < stevendale> :D 09:11 < stevendale> Probably as fast as dual booting xD 09:13 < pingfloyd> there's not much point to dual booting if you have vt-d 09:14 < pingfloyd> if you don't, it's still worth it for the IO performance difference. 09:18 < revel> Triffid_Hunter: I think you forgot the additional : after the ; in the () too. Anyways, "{:" is spitting out an error. 09:18 < sauvin> Let's not refine it here. 09:18 < revel> Ah well. 09:44 < stevendale> Damn 09:45 < stevendale> Grandma found some food in my parents fridge that expired 2008 09:48 < pingfloyd> do your parents horde food or something? 09:48 < stevendale> pingfloyd Apparently :P 09:48 < pingfloyd> are they old? 09:49 < pingfloyd> old people tend to hoard a lot 09:49 < stevendale> pingfloyd Dad's 51, mum's a bit younger 09:49 < pingfloyd> I used to collect stuff 09:57 < hey2> Hey... on a VDI at work 09:57 < hey2> I don't have sudo privileges 09:57 < stevendale> :P 09:57 < hey2> My locale is set to France - how do I change it so it is in English? I can't update-local, I can't nano the file for it to manually change it 09:57 < hey2> It's Ubuntu 09:58 < hey2> Like, I'm on pidgin right now... and everything is in French because it sets based on the locale lol 10:00 < ksy> hey2: Maybe you can't do that if you don't have root authority. 10:00 < hey2> I did it about a month and a half ago on a different session, but I can't for the life of me remember how I did it 10:00 < rcf> hey2: I'm not on Ubuntu, but on Arch at least ~/.config/locale.conf will override /etc/locale.conf on next login. 10:00 < AngryPepe> hey2: export LANG="yourlocale" 10:01 < AngryPepe> it works on almost any Linux distro 10:01 < hey2> Thank you 10:02 < AngryPepe> now You need to find locale like 10:02 < AngryPepe> locale -a | grep FR 10:02 < stevendale> en_US.UTF-8 10:02 < hey2> I already changed it 10:02 < AngryPepe> o i c , he needs English 10:03 < AngryPepe> grep en then 10:03 < hey2> Yep, don't speak French very well 10:08 < stevendale> I taught my grandma how to defrag, I am proud of myself, she's doing it herself now :) 10:08 < AngryPepe> :O 10:09 < bla> Uh. 10:09 < bla> Next step: teach her how to rebalance btrfs. 10:09 < stevendale> :P 10:09 < revel> Is that when you remove bits of grenade shells? 10:10 < revel> From wounds. 10:10 < hey2> can she install Gentoo 10:10 < stevendale> hey2, No, she uses Windows 7 :) 10:10 < revel> hey2: That question can be rephrased as "can she follow simple instructions?" 10:10 < hey2> http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/install-gentoo 10:10 < Dagmar> Nevermind that explicit defragmentation steps are fairly obsolete now 10:10 < bla> If yes. You can connect her to the botnet. 10:11 < stevendale> Imho Slackware is harder to install than both LFS and Gentoo 10:11 < stevendale> You end up putting stuff in a Slack install you don't need easily 10:11 < Dagmar> Can you get any stupider? 10:12 < hey2> I think a lot of Linux installs can turn into headaches regardless of what distro it is lol 10:12 < SuperSeriousCat> None of them are especially hard to install. It is copy-paste of lines from websites 10:12 < bla> Or windows 10 installs on hardware with no recent drivers. 10:12 < SuperSeriousCat> It is time consuming 10:13 < hey2> I mean, I lost half my hair trying to get ath10k working awhile back on a laptop 10:13 < stevendale> I disabled auto updates on her Samsung tablet when I helped her with it in the first week of May, , she came over today and I saw her going into Google Play and updating stuff manually like I showed her :) 10:13 < hey2> then the whole Bumblebee thing w/ the GPU switching wasn't working 10:13 < hey2> and that was on Fedora, should've been pretty quick 10:13 < veridiam> nothing is more frustrating than a windows install helpfully installing the bootloader on Disk 0 regardless of what drive you tell it to install on 10:13 < AngryPepe> No, Ubuntu install is like "Enter, I accept->next->next,next->...->finish->oops, where is my Windows, it's gone" 10:13 < hey2> it shouldn't delete the NTFS 10:14 < hey2> unless you explicitly tell it to 10:14 < bla> hey2: with "next" 10:14 < hey2> Iirc the Ubuntu installer recognizes it as another OS and even helps you get the dual boot going, right? 10:14 < Dagmar> He's referring to os-selector sometimes failing to pick up on that Windows is installed so grub doesn't show it as an option on next boot 10:14 < AngryPepe> I think it's default option :) 10:14 < stevendale> Yeah it does Hey2 10:14 < stevendale> Ubuntu can dual boot without most OSes :) 10:14 < stevendale> *with 10:14 < hey2> lol 10:14 < AngryPepe> erase all and install Ubuntu 10:15 < Dagmar> stevendale: So can pretty much every Linux distro 10:15 < veridiam> tell grandma she needs to install os-prober and regenerate her grub config 10:16 < meretrix> What's an easy and reliable way to run a command on a remote server for which I have a SSH key and return the STDOUT (~1MB of ASCII)? 10:17 < meretrix> Just using ssh seems liable to get stuck when there is network congestion.. 10:17 < BCMM> meretrix: i mean, what's wrong with `ssh user@server command`? 10:17 < BCMM> oh 10:17 < hey2> Can't you pass it in as a string 10:17 < hey2> ? 10:17 < stevendale> Dagmar: Sure, but most don't have a nice GUI way to do it like Ubuntu/Mint 10:17 < Dagmar> There's always mosh 10:17 < BCMM> meretrix: that shouldn't happen, but if you've got a lot of packet loss it might 10:17 < BCMM> meretrix: you could use mosh in that case 10:17 < BCMM> but mosh won't want to simply return the text to stdout 10:17 < Dagmar> stevendale: That's because other distros are used by responsible adults who don't need their hand held 10:17 < meretrix> Mosh can run commands as well? 10:18 < meretrix> Ah, yeah I need the stout 10:18 < BCMM> it syncs the current viewport of the terminal, so to speak. doesn't always bring in all the scrollback 10:18 < Dagmar> However, the problem still remains that if you have network congestion, _you have network congestion_ 10:18 < Dagmar> mosh can smooth over some of the problems but not all 10:18 < BCMM> redirect output to file, get it back with `rsync --partial`? 10:18 < Dagmar> Set shorter read timeout values 10:18 < BCMM> that way you can at least resume when the network kills your connection 10:19 < meretrix> Ok, yeah file backup is probably an easy fallback 10:19 < meretrix> The servers are in 2 big datacenters, so maybe it won't be that bad 10:19 < Dagmar> If your connection can break, mid-transaction, you don't need to be running commands remotely. It'll always have failure states 10:20 < Dagmar> You need to put the commands into a shell script, push the shell script over, and then just run _that_ on the remote end in a way that doens't require a connected terminal 10:21 < BCMM> it sounds like it's a single command, in which case, nohup 10:21 < meretrix> Basically it's a job server and it sends parameters to many workers that run numerical calculations and return JSON results 10:32 < sheepman> Hi all, is there a way to encrypt a volume "live" as such? Or does it have to be a backup and restore job? 10:33 < pingfloyd> when you format the device, all data in the space will be gone. 10:34 < sheepman> which is why i wondered if it could be done without formating 10:34 < sheepman> like you can in MacOS or Windows 10:34 < pingfloyd> so you need make the encrypted container outside the current FS you want to keep, or move the files and then copy back. 10:34 < sheepman> damn 10:34 < pingfloyd> sheepman: does, what you're referring to, use block level encryption though? 10:35 < sheepman> yes 10:35 < sheepman> i believe FileVault on MacOS does 10:35 < sheepman> i'll check Wiki 10:35 < pingfloyd> you sure that isn't more like ecryptfs (filesystem-level)? 10:36 < sheepman> oh i think it is actually 10:36 < SuperSeriousCat> Why do you want to encrypt? Want to be safe from other dual booting OSs or theft? 10:36 < pingfloyd> you're likely comparing apples and oranges without realizing it. Proprietary software doesn't like you knowing it how it works anyway. 10:36 < sheepman> FileVault uses the user's login password as the encryption pass phrase. It uses the AES-XTS mode of AES with 128 bit blocks and a 256 bit key to encrypt the disk, as recommended by NIST.[12][13] Only unlock-enabled users can start or unlock the drive. Once unlocked, other users may also use the computer until it is shut down.[3] 10:36 < sheepman> says disk 10:37 < pingfloyd> 'encrypt the disk" is rather ambiguous, especially when Apple coins the phrase. 10:37 < sheepman> FileVault full-disk encryption (FileVault 2) uses XTS-AES-128 encryption with a 256-bit key to help prevent unauthorized access to the information on your startup disk. 10:37 < sheepman> maybe that's less ambiguous? 10:37 < pingfloyd> not really 10:37 < pingfloyd> 'information on startup disk' doesn't really say much 10:38 < veridiam> i'm sure it uses a TPM of some kind 10:38 < sheepman> i guess, i know you unlock the disk as part of the boot process though in EFI i believe 10:38 < SuperSeriousCat> Whats your reason for wanting disk encryption? 10:39 < pingfloyd> anyway, if you luks format the container, whatever data was there will be gone. 10:39 < sheepman> SuperSeriousCat: compliancy reasons 10:39 < sheepman> pingfloyd: i read as much but the articles I found seemed old. Thanks for clarifying :) 10:40 < veridiam> ecryptfs is a quick way to get your home folder encrypted in-place 10:40 < sheepman> i see 10:40 < pingfloyd> it's also a good idea to overwrite the container with urandom (at least) prior to formating to use as luks. 10:40 < sheepman> makes sense 10:40 < sauvin> Compliance with what? 10:41 < sheepman> stupid company policy 10:41 < pingfloyd> instead of using /dev/urandom directly for that, I recommend overwriting zeros to it through luks as it is much faster. 10:41 < sauvin> They're idiots. Start passing your resume./ 10:41 < sheepman> i've explained it only helps if someone steals the server thats located in a secure data centre but it feel on deaf ears 10:41 < sheepman> *fell 10:41 < veridiam> lmao they want their server's disk encrypted? 10:42 < sheepman> yeah I know 10:42 < sheepman> :( 10:42 < pingfloyd> if they don't have to worry about physical access, it's pointless 10:42 < sheepman> i know i know! :) 10:42 < sheepman> its not my decision 10:42 < sheepman> and i appreciate it's a stupid one 10:42 < pingfloyd> i.e., don't they already have building security in place? 10:43 < pingfloyd> I bet they misunderstand the requirement 10:43 < pingfloyd> I know with PCI DSS compliance, many of the requirements are rather ambiguous 10:43 < sheepman> well, i did try but it was a case of "if its possible can we do it" :( 10:43 < sheepman> this is for GDPR 10:43 < sheepman> which is equally ambiguous 10:44 < veridiam> i doubt the server hardware has a TPM, so where the key is stored might be a problem 10:44 < sheepman> secure passphrase I guess? known by select staff 10:44 < pingfloyd> PCI would be something like "is the server located in a place where physical access is controlled and secured?" 10:44 < veridiam> it'll have to be entered on every reboot 10:44 < sheepman> i know 10:45 < JimBuntu> biometric physical security 10:45 < pingfloyd> the real point of compliance is to cover their asses. 10:46 < veridiam> veracrypt can do in-place encryption of the full disk 10:47 < sheepman> indeed 10:47 < sheepman> interesting veridiam 10:47 < sheepman> didn't know that 10:50 < veridiam> sheepman: my apologies, seems to only support windows for system disk encryption 10:50 < sheepman> ah ok np :) 10:55 < pingfloyd> that on the fly encryption of bitlocker is tradeoff in security 10:57 < mawk> system disk encryption using veracrypt doesn't need veracrypt support veridiam and sheepman 10:58 < mawk> you do it the same way as with luks 10:58 < mawk> but who needs that when you have luks 10:58 < pingfloyd> and luks is strong 10:59 < mawk> especially when the hidden disk feature of veracrypt doesn't work "properly" on linux, you have to disclose that there is an hidden disk in the config files 10:59 < mawk> on windows instead you just enter the password and it checks for an hidden disk itself 10:59 < pingfloyd> even with bitlocker and veracrypt you don't get as good of protection with on-the-fly encryption compared to if you have them encrypted the entire contrainer before hand. 10:59 < MrElendig> plausable deniable doesn't exist anyway 11:00 < MrElendig> deniability* 11:00 < mawk> it's not deniability here, you present the authorities with another disk without saying anything 11:00 < mawk> you give a password, just it's the wrong one 11:01 < mawk> you give the fake disk password and it will open the disk with dummy files on it 11:01 < pingfloyd> doesn't matter here 11:01 < pingfloyd> besides you don't have and/or keep rights you're not willing to fight for. 11:03 < pingfloyd> like I don't care if the authorities see my data, except out of principle. I still wouldn't give them the key. I'm more than happy to let them waste taxpayer's money on me in order to prove a point. 11:05 < mawk> yeah but it's illegal in many countries to do that 11:05 < pingfloyd> if everyone would take the effort to encrypt and not be so compliant. The economics of it all will make privacy win. 11:05 < mawk> 5 years of prison and a 350,000€ fine, here 11:06 < pingfloyd> mawk: until Royalty is investigated 11:07 < pingfloyd> it's often public officials that turn out to have the most to hide. 11:08 < pingfloyd> just being in a more connected world nowadays is catching many of them red handed. 11:09 < mawk> yeah 11:09 < pingfloyd> they never accounted for that 11:09 < pingfloyd> and now karma is in effect. 11:11 < pingfloyd> it's really those in power we should all expect to be the most transparent. 11:11 < mawk> some countries succeed in doing that 11:12 < mawk> nordic countries for instance 11:12 < pingfloyd> citizens should always have more privacy than public officials 11:16 < sheepman> pingfloyd: I agree with everything you've said 11:17 < mawk> because you're a sheep 11:20 < redco> How to get connect to internet in tty? 11:21 < MrElendig> depends on if it is wired or wifi 11:21 < well_laid_lawn> try using curl 11:21 < MrElendig> and what hardware it is 11:21 < redco> wired 11:21 < MrElendig> and how broken manjaro is today 11:21 < MrElendig> try `dhcpcd` then 11:22 < redco> MrElendig: What distro are you using? 11:23 < MrElendig> multiple different onces 11:25 < revel> MrElendig: Which ones? 11:26 < MrElendig> why do you want to know= 11:26 < revel> You just seemed pretty hardcore Arch-only. 11:27 < MrElendig> no, it is the channel rules, #archlinux only provides support for archlinux, most other # channels are the same 11:29 < revel> Eh? Who said anything about #archlinux ? 11:31 < Dr_Coke> How's it going people 11:32 < MrElendig> revel: too similar nick to redco 11:32 < MrElendig> and he came to arch asking for help with some other random distro 11:34 < ASTRA`> arch? ugh 11:35 < _abc_> Hello. Does anyone know if there's something special about booting from uSD/MMC cards in a laptop? I have an older laptop which offers USB stick booting but not MMC, there's a MMC slot and I tried various formatted media in it, linux, grub2, etc, it is never offered in the boot menu. I assume this is a bios upgrade issue? Are there other tricks? 11:35 < _abc_> Once booted the mmc slot works fine in all modes. The mmc is PCI bus attached internally, not usb 11:35 < MrElendig> _abc_: different card reader may work slightly better 11:35 < ASTRA`> flash drive 11:35 < _abc_> It's internal 11:35 < MrElendig> one that does full block emulation instead of mmc 11:35 < jhodrien> _abc_: Assuming built in card reader, I'd avoid it. 11:35 < _abc_> jhodrien: please tell more? 11:35 < jhodrien> There's not necessarily BIOS support for booting from those. 11:36 < _abc_> Strange? Okay, so you have seen this before, right? 11:36 < MrElendig> most bios doesn't have mmc support 11:36 < jhodrien> They way they connect isn't necessarily as sane as you'd like. 11:36 < revel> _abc_: Do any of the BIOS menus mention anything about it as a boot option? 11:36 < _abc_> And there's nothing one can do excepting upgrade the bios? 11:36 < jhodrien> I've had a laptop where the card reader wasn't supported under linux. 11:36 < AngryPepe> Anyone used snapper? 11:36 < _abc_> revel: no, the bios is pretty skeleton 11:36 < revel> And yeah, I'd assume booting from MMC isn't supported. Floppies, CDs and hard drives, sure. MMC? Probably not. 11:36 < _abc_> jhodrien: yeah we all saw those but this is old now and supported 11:36 < ASTRA`> or just use a external card reader 11:36 < revel> And USB. 11:36 < ASTRA`> they're 99% usb 11:37 < revel> An external reader could work. 11:37 < MrElendig> or just use a ssd/hdd 11:37 < _abc_> Still, strange it supports the external usb boot and not the internal mmc. Imo. 11:37 < ASTRA`> exactly 11:37 < ASTRA`> just saying 11:37 < MrElendig> _abc_: not really 11:37 < _abc_> Okay, so this kind of problem is fairly common? 11:37 < MrElendig> _abc_: mmc and usb mass storage are different things 11:37 < MrElendig> there are sd card readers that presents themself as a usb mass storage device 11:37 < _abc_> MrElendig: sure, and I'll tell you mmc is easyer to support... I write code for embedded things which easily do mmc/sd but not usb... 11:38 < _abc_> Most internal readers are pci in laptops. 11:38 < MrElendig> _abc_: that is due to lazyness and money 11:38 < _abc_> Well the bios could be decent enough to support it 11:38 < _abc_> So there's nothing I could do, right? Short of bios upgrade? 11:38 < MrElendig> sure it might be trivial, but it costs 50k to implement and certify 11:38 < _abc_> MrElendig: there is no need for a usb style cert for mmc 11:38 < _abc_> there is for sd 11:39 < _abc_> sd can be supported after boot in the os, no need for sd at boot time 11:39 < revel> There may not be such an upgrade out there, but BIOS support for that is probably what you need. 11:40 < mawk> put a stub that will boot the mmc on the hard drive if you know how to write embedded code _abc_ 11:41 < _abc_> Hehe I am trying to get rid of the hdd 11:41 < MrElendig> why? 11:41 < _abc_> Anyway I get the point. Easyest now would be to hw hack a usb hub into the laptop and add a tiny internal usb flash disk on it 11:41 < _abc_> I can do it, eeepc style, but won't 11:41 < MrElendig> or just get a cheap ssd 11:42 < MrElendig> :p 11:42 < _abc_> Yes. 11:42 < _abc_> This laptop is going into the bin soon. 10yo+ 11:42 < MrElendig> which won't randomly die after a week unlike sd cards : 11:43 < AngryPepe> mine ssd died randomly 11:43 < SuperSeriousCat> No CD cards ever died on me. Not on phone nor on RPi 11:43 < AngryPepe> it was expensive Plextor M2S 11:43 < MrElendig> isn't that a sandforce controller? 11:43 < AngryPepe> no 11:44 < stevendale> Boot Puppy Linux --> Wipe HDD with GParted --> New MBR & ext4 partition using all of HDD --> install Grub4DOS on HDD with bootable SD card plugged in --> Grub4DOS picks up OS on SD card and adds an entry to Grub4DOS on HDD 11:44 < stevendale> Done 11:44 < MrElendig> most plextors have just been rebadged cruddy ssds at a higher price :/ 11:44 < oiaohm> SuperSeriousCat: really SD cards have a lot of quality differences. I have had some that write 3 times fully they are dead. 11:44 < AngryPepe> worked since 2010, then controller dead 11:45 < AngryPepe> not detected in bios any more 11:45 * stevendale looks at the 60 GB Parallel ATA HDD in his 2005 single-core Intel lappy 11:45 < stevendale> Yup! No bad sectors, still going strong :) 11:46 < pingfloyd> I only had problems with 1 SD card 11:46 < SuperSeriousCat> oiaohm, thats whyyou always buy brand cd cards 11:46 < AngryPepe> btw cheap ssd on another pc on Sandforce controller still works 11:46 < revel> CD card...? 11:47 < oiaohm> SuperSeriousCat: its not only brand its model as well sandisk do make a card that is write once and also do a set of cards that only have a life of 10 writes. 11:47 < oiaohm> SuperSeriousCat: that is 10 full writes. 11:47 < AngryPepe> omg, only 10... 11:47 < AngryPepe> what a crap 11:47 < _abc_> I've found the hard way some SanDisk products with built in whatever software they bundle react very badly to deleting and reformatting without that sw 11:47 < oiaohm> AngryPepe: those are about 20/1 of the normal price. 11:48 < AngryPepe> i c 11:48 < revel> You'd better mean 1/20... 11:48 < AngryPepe> got it anyway :) 11:48 < _abc_> And I'd like to see hardware write lock on SD and MMC SOON. Like, yesterday. 11:48 < pingfloyd> I think he meant 2000% 11:48 < oiaohm> revel: the 10 write are 1/20 the write once is 20/1 11:48 < revel> wut 11:48 < stevendale> Average seek on my 60 GB, 2.5", 5400 RPM Ultra-ATA/100 is 12 ms 11:48 < _abc_> Been tempted to hw hack some media to cut the WR/WE pin on older flash cards, where they are not yet BGA, and see if it works 11:49 < pingfloyd> _abc_: what's the point beyond academics? 11:49 < _abc_> It's extremely tedious to check media remotely for corruption 11:49 < AngryPepe> remember good old CDRW... 11:49 < _abc_> Like system data and system boot disks and such 11:49 < _abc_> pingfloyd: security and reliability 11:50 < oiaohm> revel: write once have a 100 year durability rating with sandisk picking up the data recovery if it required. 11:50 < revel> Cool. 11:50 < _abc_> and that^ 11:50 < _abc_> Most normal flash is rated 10-20 years only 11:50 < _abc_> I already have media that old by the boxfull 11:51 < _abc_> why is pata ssd so expensive? Even tiny ones 11:51 < AngryPepe> Yep, I guess flash memory loses data after years if not rewritten 11:51 < DLange> old stuff, few users but in dire need 11:51 < AngryPepe> especially those TLC 11:51 < oiaohm> _abc_: cost really does aline to rated life with sandisk SD media. 11:52 < _abc_> oiaohm: I don't know what to say. Been shopping for fast SD/MMC and found Hama brand which were really expensive but U3 rated 80MB/s write and 400 read 11:52 < _abc_> Am currently using at least 3 Hama flash media, they seem to be okay and midrange to cheap 11:52 < phillly> hi. I have a question about systemd but I am afraid it might sound too stupid. I was wondering why all apps I use on my server runs under it? can't they just be child processes of the kernel? does it have to be systemd? 11:52 < revel> _abc_: Probably since nobody buys them, so you can't offset manufacturing costs very well. 11:52 < freelancerbob> hey 11:53 < freelancerbob> what does mean -h ? 11:53 < _abc_> revel: no idea. They are top of the line in the shops and they are aimed at HD video recorders. 11:53 < AngryPepe> --haaalp 11:53 < freelancerbob> while [-h $aa] 11:53 < _abc_> revel: where you really need this write speed, or you'll drop frames 11:53 < pingfloyd> phillly: you need an init to multitask, but it doesn't have to be systemd 11:53 < pingfloyd> phillly: but your dist probably pushes you into their preference for that. 11:54 < revel> phillly: They're probably children of init because it started them since init is generally also a service manager. 11:54 < phillly> pingfloyd: so systemd is the main, top process and it is what allows running many apps under? (love the nick btw) 11:54 < _abc_> phillly: rephrased: there are various other init processes, such as sysvinit. 11:54 < freelancerbob> what does mean -h in this line: while [-h "$aa"] 11:54 < mawk> phillly: it's hardcoded in the kernel that processes are at least children of PID 1, but PID 1 can be pretty anything that behaves like an init process, for instance bash is ok 11:54 < _abc_> phillly: which is the original one. 11:54 < pingfloyd> phillly: init is one of the things systemd handles, but it is bloated and goes way beyond that in scope. 11:54 < revel> freelancerbob: [ is another name for "test", check its manpage. 11:54 < mawk> it needs to periodically reap children, also respond in certain ways to certain signals 11:54 < _abc_> +1 pingfloyd 11:54 * _abc_ is a devuan fan! 11:55 < revel> _abc_: Does it use OpenRC or something else? I think I heard something about a "vue" or "vua" thingy. 11:55 < pingfloyd> phillly: the only requirement (to multitask like expected) is *an* init (take your pick). 11:55 < stevendale> My 2005 laptop's front site bus has a faster bandwidth speed than the Memory Bus xD 11:55 < stevendale> side* 11:55 < phillly> so I understand that something is needed to boot the system and control the processes. and ok there is systemd and others. in that case how come bash can be PID 1? what would manage the system 11:55 < _abc_> revel: it uses sysvinit 11:56 < mawk> the system manages itself great already phillly , init systems are sugar 11:56 < revel> Ah, it supports openrc, but uses sysvinit by default. 11:56 < _abc_> phillly: the 'management' consists in starting other tasks like servers and shells and keeping track of them if they die. 11:56 < _abc_> phillly: bash is complex enough to do it. 11:56 < phillly> oh wow that is really interesting to know, both these things 11:56 < mawk> but it's not the required feature 11:56 < _abc_> revel: /join #devuan for more 11:56 < revel> Eh, I don't plan on installing it. 11:56 < phillly> thank you very much 11:56 * _abc_ will be flamed for advertising free stuff soon 11:57 < mawk> the only things required for a working PID 1 is to reap children periodically, and respond to certain signals to be able to reboot, shutdown, etc 11:57 < mawk> it could be just a stub that will call a shell as PID 2 and start reaping 11:57 < _abc_> phillly: re: bash as init: this is used on embedded linux like openwrt routers, sometimes, and you want to read the manpage of bash in the 'disown' and 'detach' context to understand it a bit 11:57 < phillly> right so system is happy to run on its own, and it is happy to even start bash as PID 1. but init systems like systemd are there to sugar wrap it and offer stuff like signals? 11:58 < mawk> pretty much, except the part about signals 11:58 < mawk> it's not really sugar, what init systems do is helpful, but it's not required by the kernel I meant 11:58 < _abc_> phillly: more like poisoned hard candy wrap for systemd but yes 11:58 < mawk> lol 11:58 < phillly> haha wow systemd is that controversial huh? 11:59 < _abc_> phillly: If forking debian for adopting it is not a strong enough hint, yielding devuan, then nothing every will be 11:59 < freelancerbob> revel [ is test, but what is -h ? 11:59 < _abc_> freelancerbob: help request 11:59 < revel> A flag for test. `man test` will tell you exactly what it does. 12:00 < pingfloyd> phillly: if you use say bash as you init process (pid 1), then you are limited to what you can do in a single shell session (which turns out to be quite a bit but still less than using a real init daemon instead). 12:00 < revel> _abc_: Not always. And not in this case. 12:00 < _abc_> ok 12:00 < phillly> I know if I want to learn about this I should read a lot but is there any chance you could tell me in a nut shell what is the top reason for running away from systemd in this case and creating devuan? 12:00 < _abc_> If I go offline then I will have been hit by lightning. Serious booming. 12:01 < pingfloyd> phillly: using bash as init can be handy in an emergency too 12:01 < pingfloyd> certain emergencies. 12:01 < phillly> I see 12:01 < _abc_> phillly: systemd is not just an init replacement, of which there are many, it's a fundamental change in the way linux works and one which most developers who are into low level system development find very bad and going in the wrong direction. 12:01 < pingfloyd> think of that as being like a "rescue session" 12:01 < astra`> _abc_ old laptops make great throwaways 12:02 < _abc_> astra`: yes, you can throw them farther ;) 12:02 < astra`> just make sure you get an OVH box first 12:02 < astra`> :P 12:02 < _abc_> OVH? 12:02 < pingfloyd> phillly: often something like busy box is even more idea only because it covers quite a few ubiquitous userland programs itself 12:03 < astra`> there are plenty of boxes for $5 per year 12:03 < _abc_> phillly: in general, it is extremely useful to read what I said, disown related things, in the bash context, to learn about process control and what init does 12:03 < pingfloyd> (more ideal for an emergency environment) 12:03 < revel> astra`: Per *year*? 12:03 < stevendale> An A10-6800K looks like a good upgrade for me 12:03 < phillly> ok I will read about it because I want to learn 12:04 < astra`> ya, that's right 12:04 < _abc_> phillly: good start https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/unix-linux-disown-command-examples-usage-syntax/ -- as a quick skip to the pun: disown makes the processes owned by init. It's the catch-all. It can be a bash instance! 12:04 < astra`> usually good rating ones for $7 or $8 12:04 < astra`> it depends on the location, GB and RAM 12:04 < astra`> you know, the works 12:04 < phillly> and "init" is an alternative to systemd and there are many others, right? 12:04 < _abc_> phillly: the chapter "How do I keep running job after I exit from a shell prompt in background?" is very important 12:05 < _abc_> phillly: init is the real name of the program which the kernel runs by default 12:05 < astra`> A10-6800K? 12:05 < _abc_> sysvinit provides an init, systemd provides an init... there are many others 12:05 < astra`> what distro are you on, bud? 12:05 < phillly> ah ok :) 12:06 < _abc_> phillly: just read the link I provided to try and understand what init really does 12:06 < stevendale> astra` Windows XP 12:06 < phillly> ok I am reading it now 12:06 < astra`> i'm on A10-7850K 12:07 < _abc_> phillly: all processes executed on a system are started and owned by init, the processes own any subprocesses they start, until they are disowned. Then they are owned by init, itself, again. 12:07 < stevendale> I'm on a 2 Duo P8700 and a Pentium M 740 12:07 < astra`> shitty drivers messed up my 16.04 12:07 < astra`> ubuntu 12:07 < pingfloyd> you get extra credit if you understand what init SHOULD (only) do. 12:07 < astra`> upgraded to 18.04 its doing better but still 12:07 < astra`> got a new build a couple of weeks ago 12:08 < _abc_> phillly: more detail, and differences sysv vs systemd. http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man7/daemon.7.html bias warning: the page is written by a systemd lover 12:10 * _abc_ notes the systemd daemon writing guidelines run 10 points out of which 7 are vague handwaving, 12:10 < _abc_> Which is unsurprizing. 12:11 < astra`> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079YDTYYB/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER 12:11 < astra`> plus http://www.microcenter.com/product/467997/GeForce_GTX_1060_Overclocked_Dual-Fan_6GB_GDDR5_Video_Card 12:11 < astra`> RIP AMD 12:14 < pingfloyd> imagine if the Apollo program had programmers with the same mindset as systemd devs. 12:14 < _abc_> pingfloyd: not a problem. Lost space probes will be declared lost and undocumented for other reasons. 12:15 < _abc_> "fixing bugs does not bring revenue". Wait, that came out of the competition sometime around the 1990s... 12:15 < pingfloyd> _abc_: I think Apollo 13 would have been one of the more successful missions 12:15 * _abc_ nods 12:15 < _abc_> I like to think of my software, as little as it is, as a collection of bugs assembled in such a way that none are reachable by users. 12:16 < pingfloyd> there's no way around extra complexity making things less robust and more buggy. 12:16 < _abc_> https://www.quora.com/As-a-product-manager-how-do-you-prioritize-bug-fixes-vs-new-product-features agile development as an ... interesting view on bug fixing, which means we haven't seen anything yet 12:17 < MrElendig> apollo had a vm on top of a vm 12:17 < _abc_> I mean, today's buggy crap? Hang on to it, to avoid tomorrow's worse crap. 12:17 < _abc_> MrElendig: apollo had hand coded stuff running on core rope bios... 12:17 < stevendale> Hi 12:17 < bazhang> hi 12:18 < stevendale> I was just playing some Final DOOM :D 12:18 < MrElendig> _abc_: and virtual machines (really) 12:18 * _abc_ tries to imagine a bios patch for apollo, consisting in dykes/snips, a length of wire, soldering iron... 12:18 < pingfloyd> they had things like rope memory 12:18 < bazhang> is that freeware stevendale 12:18 < stevendale> Sadly not bazhang 12:19 < bazhang> how'd you get it then 12:19 < _abc_> No doubt someone liberated it onto torrent territory 12:19 < pingfloyd> I bought that when it came out back in 96 12:20 < pingfloyd> I used to be into building wads 12:20 < stevendale> bazhang: It's on Steam & GOG, also I have it on CD 12:20 < _abc_> Anyone using something like this in a linux context? https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA86V3DZ5856&cm_re=2.5%22_PATA_SSD-_-9SIA86V3DZ5856-_-Product 12:20 < phillly> _abc_: I am reading the links you posted. I have a quick question though. init starts after kernel boots, right? once hardware, input devices etc are set up? it is done after all this so users can run user and related system processes? 12:20 < bazhang> gog 12:20 < _abc_> phillly: yes. 12:20 < bazhang> thats a great site 12:20 < _abc_> phillly: the kernel is stupid and knows how to run only one process 12:21 < phillly> it is the last stage in the entire boot process then? 12:21 < stevendale> Yeah, GOG has games that work offline that aren't linked to Steam or anything, it's great 12:21 < _abc_> phillly: this is what init is, it is a "smarter" program which knows what to run and how 12:21 < _abc_> phillly: yes 12:21 < pingfloyd> I'm glad the kernel doesn't try to play init, but maybe in hindsight it wasn't such a bad idea 12:21 < phillly> ok thank you so very much. it is not easy to understand but your help has been immense 12:21 < _abc_> phillly: you can boot into bash using the kernel command line init=/bin/bash 12:21 < pingfloyd> since we end up with something that wants to take over userland (systemd) 12:21 < Xeha> _abc_: you could use a M2 SATA SSD and an adapter to PATA (adapter is around 10$) 12:21 < _abc_> phillly: then only that process will run, you can interact with it on the console 12:21 < pingfloyd> would be like the kernel taking one for the team 12:22 < _abc_> Xeha: I know, just asking around, if people use these things for real 12:22 < phillly> and then disown etc come into play 12:22 < phillly> very cool 12:22 < _abc_> There's a lot of crap on sale 12:22 < _abc_> phillly: note disowning a process while in init=/bin/bash is a very bad idea. 12:22 < _abc_> phillly: you can look up zombies too 12:22 < Xeha> _abc_: i use M2 SATA to PATA adapter in various old devices, they worked without issues. also, their transparent, not like some shitty usb adapters or alike 12:22 < phillly> if bash is PID 1 and you disown, what happens? is it what you call a zombie 12:23 < _abc_> indeed 12:23 < pingfloyd> isn't bash the only process in that case? 12:23 < _abc_> it is, until it starts others and daemonizes them 12:23 < stevendale> If you kill pid 0 while logged in as root your computer reboots 12:23 < _abc_> pid 1 12:24 < pingfloyd> stevendale: well the kernel all by itself isn't very useful. 12:24 < _abc_> Xeha: indeed, that's what I wanted to hear. Thanks. 12:24 < pingfloyd> like an engine without a vehicle 12:28 < _abc_> Xeha: ever had a ssd (m2 or other) hard fail on you? Do you do anything about putting tmp and caches on tmpfs/ramfs? 12:30 < mawk> there are 11 partitions on my rpi sd card 12:31 < bazhang> mawk, sounds like spinal tap 12:31 < bazhang> this one goes to eleven 12:31 < mawk> recovery, efiesp, mainOS, settings, boot, root, scratch, mbr_meta, data, tel 12:31 < _abc_> I think I never had fewer than 6-7 partitions on anything since ~2005 or so 12:31 < _abc_> efiesp on rpi?! 12:32 < _abc_> What is tel 12:32 < mawk> good question 12:32 < _abc_> Which one? ;) 12:32 < pingfloyd> that must to be phone home 12:32 < mawk> it's empty 12:34 < za1b1tsu> I saw a forum post a couple of weeks ago mentioning a linux distro with a lot of WMs for testing? I forgot how is called.. 12:34 < _abc_> mawk: do you expect scratch to help in being used as tmp and fail, leaving the rest unscathed? 12:34 < mawk> I don't know, it's that noob os thing that installed all these 12:34 < _abc_> za1b1tsu: with vms and dock containers the lines between many partitions and lvm based many things are blurred in a serious way 12:35 < Xeha> _abc_: not so far, but over that PATA bus, it will take a long time to cycle all the cells ;) i never bought a pata ssd, too pricy and if you google for those brands ,you get horrible results. 12:36 < _abc_> Indeed, the prices are eye watering 12:36 < _abc_> Reminds me of my friend's cars which increase 20% in value when filled up. 12:36 < _abc_> brb 12:36 < Xeha> what was the name of one company, kingforce or kingssd or something? i cant remember 12:37 < _abc_> kingston? 12:37 < Xeha> nah, some shitty company, the cheaper ones on ebay/alike 12:37 < Xeha> kingspec i think 12:37 < Xeha> yea, those... 12:40 < Xeha> oh and since you asked, im using some intel 750's as cache. but /tmp and other worthless shit is usually always in tmpfs, unless its old devices who dont have enough ram. 12:40 < mawk> usually ? 12:40 < mawk> with all distro I had recently it's not in tmpfs 12:40 < mawk> well, systemd distros 12:40 < Xeha> hes asking me what i do 12:40 < _abc_> mawk: these are not 'default' distros ;) 12:40 < Xeha> not what shitty idea distributions have about defaults 12:41 < _abc_> mawk: we tend to tweak the systems a bit, you know? 12:41 < _abc_> Xeha: yes, old ram is also pricey. 12:42 < Xeha> _abc_: aye. if your max ram is 2GB (for example) on some old laptop, having the /tmp stuff on the M2 SSD -> PATA is cheaper and also means less swapping. unless you dont do much with it of course 12:44 < stevendale> PATA HDDs aren't that slow Xeha :) 12:44 < _abc_> Apparently peak speed is 1GB/s where M2 and SATA can go to 4 and above 12:44 < Xeha> stevendale: if you have a UDMA66, you'll have a long time to wear out the SSD 12:45 < Xeha> _abc_: the adapters i've used you can find as "M2 NGFF IDE", which are (inclusive shipping) around 10$. Got aprox 8 of those without issues 12:46 < stevendale> UDMA/100 here 12:46 < Xeha> even better :) 12:47 < stevendale> 512 MB RAM though and Pentium M 740 CPU 12:47 < _abc_> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5739389/Indian-residents-left-scared-leave-homes-spate-attacks-marauding-primates.html ha 12:47 < _abc_> I would not update something *that* old. 12:47 < stevendale> Let me see if my board supports more, using AIDA64 12:47 < _abc_> Just core duo and above. 12:47 < Xeha> stevendale: dmidecode ;) 12:48 < Xeha> depens, if you love that system and use it often, it might sense to upgrade ram to max and put in such an adapter 12:48 < Xeha> *might make 12:48 < stevendale> Okay maximum memory for it is 2 GB, it takes DDR-333 SDRAM, DDR2-400 SDRAM, DDR2-533 SDRAM 12:49 < Xeha> DDR and DDR2? doubt that. 12:49 < Xeha> 2 banks? 12:49 < hey2> lol 12:49 < stevendale> Right now it has 512 MB Dual-Channel DDR2-400 SDRAM 12:50 < hey2> it could be two different boards 12:50 < hey2> the notching is different on the ddr2 vs ddr 12:50 < Xeha> you can get 2x1GB for ~7$ for that machine 12:50 < Xeha> not really expensive for a nice upgrade, if you want to use that device of course 12:52 < stevendale> Wait it might be Single-Channel 12:52 < stevendale> But BIOS says Dual 12:52 < stevendale> Confusing 12:52 < Xeha> wont matter, willing to spend 7$ on it? 12:52 < stevendale> Yep 12:53 < stevendale> Already spent $30~ for a new battery :) 12:54 < Xeha> if you have a M2 SATA lying around, try the 10$ adapter. all i can say for myself is they rock :) especially because the pata bus is always fully maxed out and the seek times. 12:54 < Xeha> gtg, ttyl :) 12:54 < stevendale> Old battery had 85% wear levelling/capacity loss 12:55 < stevendale> New one only has 20% capacity loss :) 12:57 < stevendale> Considering it's a 2005 lappy with a 2003 Intel 915GM iGPU :) 12:57 < stevendale> Pretty good for a battery probably made 12 years ago 13:12 < adsc> is it possible to create a self-made storage system (SAN) with consumer hardware and lvm, iscsi? 13:12 < adsc> i've looked a bit into professional devices, and they are ridiculously expensive, even without drives 13:12 < pingfloyd> why wouldn't it be? 13:13 < adsc> because the open source community is not interested in such things maybe? 13:13 < pingfloyd> we have iscsi support 13:14 < pingfloyd> SAN is usually someone proprietary box version of a file server 13:14 < adsc> file server? 13:14 < adsc> not really 13:14 < adsc> iscsi is block level storage 13:14 < pingfloyd> I know 13:15 < jelly> box version of a blockdev server! 13:16 < adsc> i guess it's more of a hardware problem 13:16 < null4bl3> hi guys. i am trying to pass a parameter to an alias function like so: function killport { kill $(lsof -t -i:$1) } but it won't accept my param. is it because it is nested ? 13:16 < jelly> adsc: choosing the right software and hardware components that are going to run stable in the long run will be more interesting than merely making it work once 13:16 < adsc> because you need a mainboard with lots of disk interfaces 13:17 < jelly> there were 2-3 scsi target implementations for linux last time I looked 13:17 < jelly> and the most promising one was _not_ in main tree 13:18 < adsc> so the commercial SAN stuff is all proprietary? 13:18 < pingfloyd> adsc: its as simple as creating a target on the server and the clients run the initiator 13:19 < pingfloyd> adsc: often tivoized 13:21 < pingfloyd> there's plenty of proprietary targets and initiators out there, but all I care about are the FOSS ones. Otherwise it's probably a situation where a client is already invested in something so choosing is rather moot. 13:22 < oiaohm> adsc: define commercial 13:23 < oiaohm> adsc: there are different SAN stuff used on commercial settings that are open source. http://www.petasan.org/ 13:24 < candidat> hello guys :) 13:24 < candidat> how ya doing ? 13:24 < rpgio> hanging in there 13:24 < rpgio> you? 13:25 < candidat> finishing lunch 13:25 < adsc> petasan looks interesting, thanks 13:26 < pingfloyd> this is actually a pretty decent quick and dirty guide to setting up the target https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ISCSI_Target 13:27 < oiaohm> adsc: https://www.backblaze.com/b2/storage-pod.html there are many when you look around. 13:27 < pingfloyd> but why look around for that when you can do it yourself 13:27 < pingfloyd> with less restrictions 13:28 < pingfloyd> I mean for a client, maybe 13:28 < oiaohm> adsc: some of the commercial providers of storage do openly document how their back ends are construction with the hardware and open source software they use. 13:28 < pingfloyd> like if they're dead set on an off the shelf solution 13:29 < adsc> looks cool, thanks oiaohm 13:31 < pingfloyd> reminds me of this http://www.hooli.xyz/ 13:31 < oiaohm> adsc: please note there are a stack of differnet optimisations and configuration considration when you start setting up SAN. storage area network (SAN) is a insanely broad term. 13:32 < adsc> i understand it just as a network that is dedicated to storage alone 13:32 < pingfloyd> adsc: yo! get The Box III Gavin Belson signature edition! 13:33 < oiaohm> adsc: Storage Area Network does not state a protocol. There are like only 60 different protocols you can use. 13:34 < oiaohm> adsc: including possibly using all 60 at once. 13:34 < adsc> 60? insane... 13:35 < oiaohm> adsc: https/ftp/smb/nfs... just for a few of the 60. 13:36 < adsc> nah i want block level protocols 13:37 < pingfloyd> adsc: it can be as low scale as a server running an isci target or much larger scale with many servers. Once you're using iscsi, it's basically a SAN a 13:37 < pingfloyd> at that point 13:38 < oiaohm> adsc: there is over 10 block level protocols out of that 60 with iscsi and "ata over ethernet" being the most common. 13:39 < pingfloyd> one thing to bear in mind, when you lose sudden connection with the target, that's like yanking a drive out from a software standpoint. 13:39 < jelly> nbd is even simpler than iscsi 13:39 < pingfloyd> so a reliable and fast network supporting it is pretty vital 13:40 < adsc> yeah 13:40 < jelly> the "reliable" bit is why people buy commercial products with a support contract 13:40 < adsc> what i wonder about is how to abstract multiple "SAN boxes" as one large uniform pool 13:40 < pingfloyd> I think that's how it's going to be with block level in general though 13:41 < adsc> yeah I know the commercial stuff has allround redundancy built in at every level 13:41 < jelly> adsc: that'd be distributed storage; look at ceph or gluster for examples 13:41 < adsc> but gluster is not block level 13:41 < oiaohm> jelly: https://www.centos.org/docs/5/html/Cluster_Suite_Overview/s1-gnbd-overview-CSO.html there is more than 1 form of nbd. 13:42 < jelly> "uniform pool" is not block level either 13:42 < adsc> yeah, I guess 13:42 < pingfloyd> going to need some form of abstraction for that 13:42 < jelly> oiaohm: gnbd is not nbd :-) 13:42 < adsc> ceph is interesting 13:44 < oiaohm> adsc: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_Replicated_Block_Device this is open source. Raid over network. 13:44 < adsc> drbd, yeah, I know it...already using it in a 2 server HA setup 13:45 < jelly> best define your goals clearly first. 13:45 < jelly> why do you want or need a "pool" 13:46 < adsc> well, it's mostly just curiosity...i'm a software dev and been away from hardware for 7+ years, and lately we moved to cloud solutions and I just wondered why they are so expensive 13:46 < jelly> if you worry about management and allocation, one way is to virtualize actual storage controllers and let all client access go over a separate provides. IBM SAN Volume Controller (SVC) is a nice and very powerful example 13:46 < jelly> provider* 13:46 < adsc> yeah, I'm mostly wondering about storage in a container cloud 13:46 < blueglass> aaa__: you're paying for the flexibility 13:47 < pingfloyd> in "the cloud" there could be any storage backing it 13:47 < jelly> then you probably won't be dealing with blockdev, you'll be dealing with s3 13:47 < adsc> that's just the thing, it's not even that flexible 13:47 < oiaohm> adsc: this is the problem people think moving to the cloud makes things better than having own hardware. 13:47 < jelly> and hosting in cloud is cheaper than self hosting up to a point, after that your own hardware is cheaper 13:48 < pingfloyd> they're always suckers for that bait and switch 13:48 < oiaohm> adsc: cloud providers attempt to get costs down while keeping customers decently happy. 13:48 < adsc> i guess you don't even need a storage abstraction, because if a container goes down, when he comes back up, he can just reconnect to the same iscsi target 13:48 < pingfloyd> get drawn in by the deals and then become dependent and grow on it, then they get the dicking. 13:48 < oiaohm> adsc: please note decently happy. Meaning they are not after to provide you with perfection. 13:48 < pingfloyd> it's like don't get in bed with the devil and think there won't be sodomy involved at some point. 13:49 < jelly> adsc: if you make cloud-based solutions you don't rely on any single disk or any single VM anyway 13:49 < adsc> just need a service layer that can create a new iscsi target automatically and assign it to a container when he needs it I guess 13:49 < oiaohm> jelly: cloud provides since you don't control the stuff you hope you are not depending on a single disc. 13:49 < jelly> VM dies? Some transactions are lost, start up another one 13:50 < adsc> so the service layer just has to know which SAN boxes are around and be able to send them commands I guess 13:50 < oiaohm> jelly: there have been a few major cloud stuff ups caused by single disc failure and backup system at cloud provide not working. 13:50 < jelly> oiaohm: I wouldn't call that "cloud" but a different c word... 13:51 < oiaohm> jelly: cloud in networking terms has been used to make the unknown. 13:51 < oiaohm> jelly: and when people come to cloud providers they forgot cloud meaning of unknown of what is there. 13:52 < pingfloyd> the cloud could be in someone's damp basement for all you know 13:52 < oiaohm> pingfloyd: with of course the most suspect water pipes days away from flooding. 13:53 < aaa__> what ? 13:58 < BluesKaj> Hiyas all 14:01 < pingfloyd> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqp9LIl5MH4 14:09 < milp_2> hi there, how come when i scan the external ip of my server, it says that some ports are open and it also lists some that are "filtered", if i do a netstat to find which process listens on those filtered ports i get no result - so why does nmap say theyre "filtered" and not just "closed"? 14:10 < justnav> are you sure those filtered ports aren't opened by your router? 14:16 < milp_2> there is no nat-router or anything inbetween if thats what you mean 14:16 < adsc> filtered means something is just discarding the packets and not responding 14:17 < adsc> closed means a network stack is responding that there is no service listening on the port 14:17 < adsc> so filtered usually means that there is a firewall somewhere inbetween 14:20 < shrdlu68> Seeing a strange situation with ports open that are not attached to any port. Ports like 3696, 38423, 33501, etc. 14:21 < milp_2> thanks adsc! 14:21 < shrdlu68> When I use nc to connect the machine and send /dev/urandom to it, the ports are closed and some other arbitrary ports are open. 14:22 < ananke> shrdlu68: 'not attached to any port' makes little sense 14:22 < shrdlu68> ananke: Sorry, not attached to any pid. 14:22 < ananke> shrdlu68: how did you verify that? 14:23 < shrdlu68> ananke: Using netstat as root, the pids are not shown. 14:23 < shrdlu68> ananke: tcp 0 0 0.0.0.0:38075 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN - 14:23 < ananke> shrdlu68: check fuser -v 38075/tcp 14:25 < shrdlu68> ananke: Will have access in a few minutes, I'll do that. 14:25 < pingfloyd> shrdlu68: use -p flag 14:25 < shrdlu68> pingfloyd: In netstat? 14:25 < pingfloyd> yeah 14:25 < pingfloyd> you've got the right idea to run as root to see everything 14:25 < shrdlu68> Okay, but all the other pids are shown. 14:26 < pingfloyd> netstat -tunapl 14:27 < shrdlu68> Let me get access to the machine and I'll get back to you guys. 14:27 < pingfloyd> another option is ss 14:27 < shrdlu68> Yeah 14:27 < KnightsOfNi> When you make an FTP user and upload files with that user, who becomes owner of the files? 14:27 < pingfloyd> same flags 14:28 < KnightsOfNi> eg. you make an ftp user for in your IDE phpstorm, but the account the files are under are a different name 14:29 < pingfloyd> KnightsOfNi: tias 14:29 < KnightsOfNi> ? 14:29 < ||JD||> KnightsOfNi: normally the FTP user you are connecting with 14:30 < ||JD||> you shouldn't be using FTP at all BTW 14:30 < KnightsOfNi> an ftp user created through cpanel gets a linux account too? 14:30 < KnightsOfNi> SFTP... 14:31 < pingfloyd> sftp is the way to go 14:32 < norkle> RAPE! 14:32 < KnightsOfNi> Can you tell me what I should be using then instead of sarcasm? 14:34 < ||JD||> perhaps if you say "please" and "thanks"... 14:36 < qswz> I'm reading `find` man page, but didn't figure yet, how would I search all files starting by '~', recursively, and ignoring folders like .git, node_modules ? 14:36 < justnav> an ftp user created through cpanel gets a linux account too? 14:36 < qswz> I could put a depth limit too 14:36 < justnav> i'm pretty sure it's the other way around 14:37 < justnav> if you create a linux user in cpanel, and have FTP enabled, then that linux user can also login to FTP 14:37 < KnightsOfNi> every cpanel user has an ftp account 14:37 < revel> It's recursive by default, and I think it's -iname with either '~*' or '~.*' for files starting with ~ 14:37 < justnav> KnightsOfNi, yes 14:38 < justnav> but like pingfloyd said, instead of FTP, you should use sftp 14:38 < qswz> revel: ok 14:38 < justnav> with sftp, you will still be able to login to your linux system as if it was ftp, 14:38 < qswz> and how about ignoring some dirs? I read about -prune, but I don't get it 14:39 < justnav> you can most likley do that by editing your ftp server's config 14:39 < qswz> iname for cas-insensitive? 14:39 < qswz> yea 14:40 < revel> Well, not too important in this case, I guess. 14:41 < KnightsOfNi> I am using SFTP 14:43 < justnav> cool... and like ||JD|| was saying, you should probably just turn off FTP 14:45 < KnightsOfNi> and how would I get my changes to the server then? 14:48 < rcvu> I run a `nmcli dev mod ...` command but sometimes restarting the network will reset the command I set 14:48 < rcvu> Is there a specific command I have to run to get it to save the changes? 14:49 < qswz> find . -type d \( -path dir1 -o -path dir2 -o -path dir3 \) -prune -o -print 14:49 < qswz> is extreme 14:49 < qswz> why didn't -path works with a regex 14:58 < qswz> well it can, nvm 14:59 < za1b1tsu> How would I write a @spec, for function like fn ([], _, _) -> [] end. That I use for recurssion? 15:27 < IamTrying> https://i.imgur.com/Oa7NTzM.png - Where is the IRC room to ask about Google cloud platform and CentOS/RHEL related to DoD and VA IT violation compatibility. 15:28 < pankaj> I just forgot to get the security key of my wifi-network from my brother. Is their any way to know the security key of my network in linux via command line? 15:29 < BluesKaj> IamTrying, uhm try #centos chat 15:30 < Dominian> pankaj: no 15:30 < Dominian> would kind of defeat the purpose of the key being hiddne/encrypted 15:30 < IamTrying> BluesKaj: no its offtopic there. they do not like to discuss about it there. 15:30 < BluesKaj> imanc, ok what's DoD and VA IT violation compatibility? 15:31 < BluesKaj> IamTrying,^ 15:31 < mnemon> IamTrying: could try ##security 15:32 < BluesKaj> too many acronyms in a row :-) 15:32 < pankaj> Dominian: OK. 15:32 < IamTrying> OK - BluesKaj, DoD Directive 8570.01 (https://www.imgva.com/8570-requirements/) 15:33 < Dominian> I don't think we need to get into a discussion of the DoD directives as it releates to google cloud, in this channel. 15:34 < IamTrying> YES - that is why i was trying to go to specific room. thank you Dominian 15:34 < Dominian> K 15:34 < Dominian> Just making sure we don't go off on a tangent about it here. 15:35 < IamTrying> OK 15:35 < jeffree> nah, let's do it 15:45 < BluesKaj> jeffree, maybe you and IamTrying could pm one another and take the discussion there :-) 15:45 < jeffree> lol, I was just being oppositional :) 15:46 < IamTrying> https://cloud.google.com/security/compliance/ - It does not have DoD, VA it. Google is always lier and shout with blaff 15:52 < IamTrying> https://i.imgur.com/6bsFlTo.png - In google cloud platform > CentOS 7 > i want fixed public static ip > What to choose to get static IP on my CentOS? 15:55 < shrdlu68> IamTrying: Edit a file in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ 15:56 < imofftopic> Youre trying? 16:00 < pingfloyd> not trying hard enough 16:00 < BluesKaj> afaik it's usually done in the /etc/network/interfaces file 16:00 < jim> imofftopic, please don't mess with people's names 16:00 < Alina-malina> I am looking for a correct way of tracking my wpa_cli connection with linux and if it disconnects/connects for some reason, it reminds me or do execute other commands 16:01 < imofftopic> I'm not messing with peoples names 16:01 < pingfloyd> IamTrying: http://www.mustbegeek.com/configure-static-ip-address-in-centos/ 16:01 < imofftopic> You have to have a registered nick to join this channel :D 16:02 < jim> imofftopic, "iamtrying" versus "you're trying?" 16:02 < imofftopic> Bit overly sensitive Jim? 16:02 < IamTrying> pingfloyd: they use `gcloud` tool in Google cloud platform. i do not saw yet sun (terminal access) shine 16:03 < jim> it's a mild form of it, and you should get out of that habit 16:04 < shrdlu68> Alina-malina: Naive solution: tail log file. 16:05 < jim> imofftopic, a person's nick (or other identity) is something you should avoid messing with, it can cause hurt or fights 16:05 < Alina-malina> shrdlu68, hmmm thanks for idea, let me try that 16:05 < imofftopic> :D 16:05 < shrdlu68> IamTrying: gcloud compute addresses create... 16:06 < linuxconformer> can i get an SSL certificate for an IP address (as opposed to just a domain name)? 16:06 < IamTrying> thanks shrdlu68 16:07 < shrdlu68> linuxconformer: Yes, absolutely. 16:12 < linuxconformer> shrdlu68: but not using letsencrypt? 16:13 < shrdlu68> linuxconformer: Never tried, but it should work. 16:13 < linuxconformer> apparently not 16:15 < shrdlu68> Curious, why not? 16:17 < shrdlu68> Ah, the reason is because they consider IP addresses ephemeral, therefore proving ownership by temporarily binding to a port is insufficient. 16:18 < aaa__> what ? 16:18 < shrdlu68> But in principle, domain names are not a core part of TLS/x509; the RFCs refer to "GeneralName", which can be an IP address, DNSName, directoryName, rfc822Name... 16:20 < tds> out of interest, how do other CAs verify ownership of an IP? is running a web server sufficient, or do they email the owner of the inetnum/inet6num object? 16:21 < ayecee> i would imagine it would have to be the latter 16:24 < GraysonBriggs> https://superuser.com/questions/1313243/why-does-my-browser-think-that-https-1-1-1-1-is-secure 16:37 < ayecee> +1 informative 16:40 < Psi-Jack> heh 16:40 < Psi-Jack> SAN with IP: 16:43 < ullf09721> hello 16:43 < ullf09721> where can I ask about this 16:43 < ullf09721> Sorry for this kind of question but still,I'm trying to use S_ISREG function with stat function but I'm getting nothing. 16:45 < Sonolin> *crickets* 16:48 < ayecee> it's not clear what you're asking about 16:49 < Sonolin> that was more just background noise :P 16:49 < Sonolin> oh nm 16:50 < Sonolin> think ullf09721 quit 16:50 < ayecee> ah 16:56 < NetTerminalGene> is file system a software? 16:57 < Toerkeium> hello guys, I'm in new york for vacations and I'm trying to find a store in here to buy a xeon processor, anyone knows where could I get one in a good store? 16:57 < andytoshi> hiya, is there a way to get screen to show me the same session in multiple terminals? i'm trying to do a side by side font comparison 16:58 < j0seph> andytoshi: i don't know too much about it, but 'screen' app might be able to help you. what distro are you running? 17:03 < za1b1tsu> what is a nice GUI git program? 17:04 < dumain> andytoshi: tmux can do this. Default behavior of tmux attach. 17:07 < Acheron> hello rumpel 17:07 < rumpel> Acheron, hi there 17:15 < Elec_A> Hi, I have packet drop at NIC level, how can I empty ring buffer or increase its size? 17:17 < ayecee> Elec_A: the ring buffer is on the nic itself. you could replace the nic. 17:18 < ayecee> it sounds like you're pretty far down the rabbit hole on this one. it might help to know how you got there. 17:37 < messiah_> Hey 17:37 < messiah_> I back 17:38 < messiah_> Hope jm12 here ,😁 17:38 < messiah_> Ive installed vbox with last debian 17:39 < messiah_> And need to firmware cp2102 usb converter 17:39 < messiah_> How to force debian in vbox see usb device? 17:39 < messiah_> Not my windows... 17:40 < messiah_> Is that possible? 17:50 < messiah_> Dont answer me... looks like not possible 17:51 < revel> messiah_: You can have VMs see USB devices connected to the host. 17:51 < turkeyhand> how do you use USB dongles 17:51 < revel> I'd know, I've done it. Though it was Linux host > Windows guest (VM). Not sure if/how well it works the other way around. 17:52 < messiah_> You mean vmware? 17:52 < revel> No, VBox. 17:52 < turkeyhand> doesn't vmware cost 17:52 < revel> It does, and I don't think it's really all that great anyway. 17:52 < turkeyhand> I have a question 17:52 < turkeyhand> what the fuck is it 17:52 < messiah_> Whats VMs? 17:52 < turkeyhand> VMware 17:53 < messiah_> Google vmware 17:53 < revel> A virtual machine. Like, the things you make with Virtualbox. 17:53 < revel> I'm not talking about VMware... 17:53 < turkeyhand> ok 17:53 < turkeyhand> then it doesn't matter 17:53 < turkeyhand> I have a physical install of windows on this machine 17:53 < revel> VirtualBox can do USB forwarding or whatever. 17:53 < messiah_> See... so that can be configured via vbox? 17:53 < turkeyhand> can I make that into a virtual machine 17:53 < revel> It can. 17:53 < messiah_> See 17:54 < messiah_> Thanks 17:54 < revel> turkeyhand: Dunno,. 17:54 < turkeyhand> what's the problem with doing that 17:54 < turkeyhand> it's a different partition 17:54 < revel> Well, you can try, though from what I know, Windows is practically married to the hardware it's originally installed on. 17:54 < turkeyhand> could I load that up as a virtual machine and have changes persist 17:54 < turkeyhand> yeah this is the hardware it's installed on 17:55 < turkeyhand> it's installed on this drive. 17:55 < revel> There's certainly tools to convert raw disk images into VM-compatible images. 17:55 < ayecee> the virtual environment looks like a different machine to windows 17:55 < turkeyhand> it's a partition in NTFS 17:55 < turkeyhand> oh 17:55 < turkeyhand> right 17:55 < turkeyhand> I'v enever fucked with virtual machines before 17:55 < ||JD||> turkeyhand: google "P2V" 17:55 < turkeyhand> penis 2 v? 17:55 < ayecee> mind the language please 17:56 < turkeyhand> yes 17:56 < mouses> turkeyhand: in theory, yes - but I would not -> windows gets REALLY weird when you change the architecture 17:56 < mouses> it might work 17:56 < revel> It won't actually make changes to the real disk if you just convert the disk before. Not sure how well raw access to the partition would work. 17:56 < turkeyhand> ok 17:56 < turkeyhand> this windows install won't actually boot 17:57 < mouses> turkeyhand: oh, might be best to just boot a live USB session of $something, back up the files, nuke from orbit 17:57 < turkeyhand> well I need windows occasionally 17:57 < turkeyhand> and I overwrote the MBR with grub accidentally while installing arch in a super hurry 17:58 < mouses> turkeyhand: right, then install linux + a VM system, install fresh windows into the VM... 17:58 < mouses> oh 17:58 < mouses> that's EASY to fix 17:58 < mouses> like super easy 17:58 < turkeyhand> capital easy? 17:58 < turkeyhand> tell me how please 17:58 < mouses> turkeyhand: Yup! Here's what you will do. 17:58 < turkeyhand> don't say delete windows 17:58 < mouses> 1) download the .iso of the latest xubuntu 17:58 < turkeyhand> because I'll roundhouse kick you 17:58 < mouses> 2) burn that to DVD/put on USB stick as a bootable image 17:58 < mouses> 3) boot it, don't install! 17:58 < mouses> 4) sudo apt get boot-repair 17:59 < mouses> run boot repair 17:59 < turkeyhand> ah crap 17:59 < mouses> click fix 17:59 < mouses> 5) done 17:59 < turkeyhand> no it's arch 17:59 < dunpeal> Hi. I have a group 'dunpeal'. Can I use `adduser` to create a user 'dunpeal' and add it to the group 'dunpeal' in a single step? 17:59 < mouses> turkeyhand: does not matter what it is 17:59 < mouses> it will fix your boot 17:59 < turkeyhand> are you absolutely sure 17:59 < mouses> you're booting from a USB/DVD 17:59 < mouses> yes 100000% 17:59 < turkeyhand> that's an impossible number man 17:59 < mouses> https://sourceforge.net/p/boot-repair/home/Home/ 17:59 < mouses> literally push button get bacon 17:59 < mouses> nom 18:00 < turkeyhand> does it repair grub 18:00 < mouses> Triffid_Hunter: yes 18:00 < mouses> Triffid_Hunter: mistag 18:00 < mouses> turkeyhand: yes 18:00 < turkeyhand> me? 18:00 < turkeyhand> it repairs grub too 18:00 < mouses> yes 18:00 < turkeyhand> I'll do it. 18:00 < turkeyhand> xubuntu? 18:00 < mouses> turkeyhand: ping me after you do it 18:01 < turkeyhand> is xubuntu really small or something 18:01 < mouses> turkeyhand: sure, it's lightweight but still robust enough to where you won't have to waste time tracking down deps or installing 50,000 packages 18:01 < mouses> turkeyhand: not *really* small, but smallish 18:01 < messiah_> Im sry ro ask - maybe somebody have image of anything with installed osmocom? 18:01 < turkeyhand> zombocom? 18:01 < mouses> turkeyhand: the boot-repair utility has saved my ass so many times 18:01 < turkeyhand> ok if you're absolutely sure it'll fix win10 and arch 18:01 < mouses> turkeyhand: basically what it will do is read the drive, find any installed OS's, replace the MBR/Grub stuff if needed 18:01 < mouses> yup 18:02 < mouses> it's amazing 18:02 < turkeyhand> where does it put grub 18:02 < mouses> whereever you already have it 18:02 < turkeyhand> it's over some files though I think 18:02 < mouses> just remember, you HAVE to boot from live session 18:02 < mouses> you cannot do this with the drive(s) in question mounted 18:02 < turkeyhand> what's a live session 18:02 < turkeyhand> ok yes 18:02 < mouses> turkeyhand: booting from USB/DVD/Network whatever 18:02 < mouses> vs installing xubuntu to the local drive 18:03 < messiah_> Ah... no images 18:04 < mouses> turkeyhand: (side note - you might want to make sure the BIOS/EFI is not using secure boot, or after repair when you boot windows it may freak out and overwrite the MBR and only windows will be bootable) 18:04 < mouses> it won't damage anything, just annoying 18:04 < turkeyhand> whta's secure boot 18:04 < turkeyhand> I have every piece of crap turned off 18:04 < turkeyhand> I should update the bios though, and I'll do that if this works 18:05 < turkeyhand> because I've tried one or two things and there hasn't been a single magic bullet so far 18:05 < dunpeal> Hi. Sorry, my station crapped out earlier. Is there a way to create a new user "dunpeal", and add it to an existing group "dunpeal", in the same step? 18:06 < ayecee> would be the same as creating a new user and adding them to a new group 18:07 < turkeyhand> mouses this is an x220 18:07 < revel> dunpeal: Yep. 18:07 < dunpeal> revel: how? 18:07 < turkeyhand> I REALLY hope that your super optimism is right 18:07 < mouses> turkeyhand: awesome :) 18:08 < mouses> turkeyhand: Done this a thousand times. 18:08 < revel> `useradd`, I think with some option. Or by default. Not sure. 18:08 < mouses> turkeyhand: <3 lenovo hardware 18:08 < turkeyhand> mouses my x220 tablet died and I am actually fairly sad 18:08 < turkeyhand> but, this x220 has an IPS screen and mega upgraded internals, ssd and giant drive, so it's not all bad 18:08 < mouses> turkeyhand: I have this system: https://www3.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/lenovo/y-series/y510p/ 18:09 < revel> dunpeal: Yeah, useradd creates a group of the same name by default. 18:09 < mouses> with the SLI gpu's and replaced the 'hybrid' drive with a 512GB samsung EVO and upgraded the memory to 16gb 18:09 < mouses> turkeyhand: it's a best 18:09 < mouses> beast* 18:09 < turkeyhand> that is one expensive machine. 18:10 < mouses> turkeyhand: Got lucky - had one of my clients be unable to pay me for a $350 bill - he offered that system 'slightly used' (it was in perfect shape) 18:10 < turkeyhand> you can game and everything on a really small platform 18:10 < turkeyhand> what THE F 18:10 < mouses> turkeyhand: It's awesome - can run most modern games @ medium settings at a smooth 60FPS, games a few years old can be high/extreme 18:10 < dunpeal> revel: can I also add it to the sudoers group? 18:10 < turkeyhand> I think this is one time ever that I'm envious of a stranger on IRC 18:11 < dunpeal> revel: err, "sudo" group 18:11 < revel> Or wheel, or whatever they decide to call it. 18:11 < turkeyhand> I just moved to germany and it's super fucking hard here 18:11 < mouses> dunpeal: sudo usermod -a -G sudo 18:11 < mouses> assuming the group is sudo not shell 18:11 < mouses> wheel* 18:11 < dunpeal> Thanks. 18:11 < revel> Yeah, what he said. 18:11 < dunpeal> (It is, this is Ubuntu) 18:11 < mouses> revel: :-) 18:11 < mouses> dunpeal: yup then that is how to do it 18:11 < revel> (remember the -a) 18:12 < mouses> (assuming the user is already created) 18:12 < mouses> and yes, REMEMBER the -a 18:12 * mouses salutes the -a 18:12 < mouses> never forget! 18:12 < mouses> :) 18:12 < mouses> turkeyhand: make sure to ping me and let me know how that boot repair goes 18:13 < dunpeal> I'll also remember the 5th of November. 18:13 < mouses> dunpeal: I know of no reason why it should ever be forgot 18:21 < Rukus> hello 18:21 < Rukus> i havea simple question ive google extensively... but has so many opinions 18:21 < Rukus> when do you want to adjust swappiness and why? 18:22 < ayecee> if you have to ask, then never 18:22 < Rukus> thats why i am leaving it alone 18:22 < ayecee> there's no reason to adjust it during normal use 18:22 < Rukus> just wondering if there is a good reason to 18:22 < Rukus> alot suggest adjusting to 10 for some reason\ 18:22 < Rukus> because "less swapping to disk, improves performance" 18:23 < ayecee> dumb. 18:23 < Rukus> but i am not sure thats how swappiness works 18:23 < ayecee> yeah, it's not. 18:23 < Rukus> or when you have an SSD to choose low swappiness 18:23 < ayecee> also dumb 18:24 < ayecee> ssds aren't nearly as fragile as these people think 18:24 < Rukus> i can't see them fragile either 18:24 < Rukus> even over provisioning is outdated practice 18:25 < Rukus> just use the damn thing is what i think 18:26 < Dagmar> THey've identified a knob, which instantly makes them experts in twiddling that knob, or so they think 18:27 < Rukus> you should see the disasters in virtual memory tweaking in android 18:27 < Dagmar> I see them 18:27 < Dagmar> I'm in #Android and there's a weekly parade of idiots who want to change the cpuqfreq settings and a host of other things they shouldn't touch 18:27 < Rukus> people who are like "i have no free ram!" i must free the ram 18:27 < Rukus> yeah thats not how it works... 18:28 < rascul> if i have free memory then it's a sign that i may have wasted money 18:28 < Rukus> thats how i see it 18:28 < z88> That's a wide stament. 18:28 < Rukus> i mean, depends on your initial load perhaps? 18:29 < rascul> i mean that only to an extent 18:29 < rascul> hence the word "may" 18:29 < Rukus> Dagmar, anything other than the interactive governor on android seems silly to me 18:31 < Dagmar> Probably because you have a clue how some of it works 18:32 < Rukus> yeah, i do 18:32 < Rukus> some clue 18:32 < azx> how come i can't make a new folder or delete anything on my external hard drive in dolphin 18:32 < Rukus> manufacturers usually know what they are doing, so go with their source code 18:32 < rascul> azx impossible to tell without more information such as what happens when you try 18:32 < azx> this has frustrated me for ages in my time using linux 18:32 < azx> it's unclickable 18:32 < azx> non-active 18:33 < Rukus> permissions perhaps? 18:33 < azx> i think i need elevated priviledges, but when i do root actions 18:33 < azx> it still doesn't work with deletion 18:33 < Rukus> maybe mount options? 18:33 < azx> hm , maybe 18:33 < rascul> is there a line for it in /etc/fstab? 18:33 < azx> no it's external 18:33 < azx> i do not believe so 18:34 < azx> i just plug it in and want to transfer files to it 18:34 < rascul> you might try #kde 18:35 < azx> ok, thank you 18:35 < Rukus> omfg 18:35 < dgurney> 1 18:35 < dgurney> oops 18:35 < rascul> 2 18:35 < Rukus> damn. you just made me look at my SSD partition structure 18:36 < Rukus> and i just realized, that i did not in fact install to my / partition my build of ubuntu 18:36 < rascul> nobody made you do anything of the sort! 18:36 < Rukus> wtf was i even doing 18:36 < prussian> dunno 18:36 < Rukus> 32GB unallocated hahaha 18:36 < Rukus> damn\ 18:36 < Rukus> thats a large parition 18:37 < Sonolin> you realize that's what things like gparted are for, right? 18:37 < Rukus> Sonolin, what would you do? 18:37 < Sonolin> I mean, if you don't understand partitioning, you should just let the installer do that for you 18:37 < Rukus> no, i do.... i just am not sure why i didn't use it 18:37 < Sonolin> Rukus: reinstall and let the installer decide your partioning strategy 18:38 < azx> how can i get to my external hard drive from root 18:38 < azx> isn't it in media folder or something 18:38 < rascul> azx is it mounted? 18:38 < azx> yes 18:38 < rascul> then navigate to the mount point, which you can find by running 'findmnt' 18:38 < Rukus> Sonolin, what becomes of my initial install? 18:38 < azx> i think 18:38 < azx> run/media/user 18:39 < Rukus> Sonolin, so i reinstall, place the OS on the empty partition, my large partition becomes /home 18:39 < azx> yay it worked 18:39 < Rukus> and the original / is removed? 18:39 < Sonolin> Rukus: no, I'm saying I would backup everything, and start over 18:39 < azx> i cant create a folder even with root 18:39 < azx> wtf 18:39 < Sonolin> unless you are confident messing with partitioning tools... 18:39 < rascul> is it mounted readonly? 18:39 < Rukus> Sonolin, oh ok, best idea. yeah i'll do that. i have like only a couple GB to backup so no biggy 18:40 < bls> azx: there are methods for denying root write access 18:40 < azx> i am but just a peasent 18:40 < azx> how do i figure out if it's mounted read only 18:40 < rascul> findmnt 18:40 < rascul> it will note either rw or ro as an option 18:40 < azx> ro,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=0,group_id=0,default_permissions,allow_other,blksize=4096 18:40 < bls> also check ACLs/extended attributes/selinux 18:40 < rascul> it's mounted read only 18:41 < azx> fuck 18:41 < bls> ah, the simple things 18:41 < azx> why would that be a default 18:41 < azx> when plugging it in 18:41 < azx> i'm actually suprised linux decided to auto mount it 18:41 < bls> you'd have to ask your distro that 18:41 < swift110> hmm 18:41 < azx> how to fix and make read/write? 18:41 < azx> umount 18:41 < rascul> bls i ask my distro things all the time but it never replies :( 18:41 < azx> umount / 18:42 < Sonolin> haha :) 18:42 < Sonolin> azx don't do that.. 18:42 < Rukus> Sonolin, wtf ..... i will never trust "Disks" again ..... it says 32gb unallocated.... but gparted and df-h tells me otherwise 18:42 < rascul> azx mount -o remount,rw /some/device /some/mount/point 18:42 < bls> azx: mount -o remount,rw 18:42 < Sonolin> Rukus: hmm... well, some tools report partitions differently, since there are different partitioning strategies 18:42 < revel> rascul: Don't need to specify the device with remount. 18:43 < rascul> sure 18:43 < Rukus> /dev/sda3 200G 143G 47G 76% /home 18:43 < rascul> habit i guess 18:43 < Rukus> err 18:43 < Sonolin> Rukus: but that does sound strange, no idea about disks 18:43 < azx> can i choose the mount point as 18:43 < Rukus> Sonolin, yeah not sure whats going on, but it looks okay in both gparted and df -h 18:43 < HappyHobo> Howdy folks 18:43 < azx> /run/media/user/name 18:43 < Rukus> . /dev/sda5 29G 21G 6.9G 76% / 18:43 < azx> because that's where it currently is 18:44 < azx> or should i make a folder in mnt 18:44 < bls> if you've got an automounter running, it'll likely create conflicts if you try to do things manually in /mnt 18:44 < azx> it worked! 18:45 < azx> this is a problem that has been plauging me since the early days of running linux 18:45 < azx> all because distro automounted without write access 18:45 < azx> thank you 18:45 < HappyHobo> I just installed manjaro and I chose the wrong keyboard so I don't have a hashtag. I was tryingg to match the key shapes on this board. I also asked it to associate it with the old home and it didn't and I don't remember how to associate it. 18:46 < azx> happyhippo remember that manjaro doesn't mount with write access 18:46 < HappyHobo> Huh? 18:46 < rascul> HappyHobo i suspect hashtag isn't the term you're looking for 18:46 < azx> hash 18:46 < azx> pound 18:46 < azx> number sign 18:46 < bls> you mean pound/hash/octothorp? 18:47 < rascul> it's not clear what choosing keyboard settings for a distro install have to do with twitter ;) 18:47 < azx> dat waffle key 18:47 < Sonolin> #neverforget 18:47 < Sonolin> :P 18:47 < HappyHobo> It is the the tic tac board symbol on the 3. I had to fight to get in 18:47 < bls> you spelled nevar wrong 18:47 < rascul> HappyHobo what type of keyboard do you have? 18:48 < Sonolin> Touché 18:48 < HappyHobo> One that I bought that has a little different setup for my latitude 6230 18:49 < HappyHobo> It worked fine before on antergos but I had net issues with antergos 18:49 < HappyHobo> with the generic us keyboard it worked fine I chose UK because it's got funny keys. 18:50 < Sonolin> no wonder they can't meme 18:51 < azx> ok now 18:52 < evanesoteric> Does the limit flag with IPtables affect a single connection, or the server as a whole? Specifically when using the conntrack flag. i.e: -m conntrack --ctstate NEW -m limit --limit 40/s --limit-burst 1024 -j ACCEPT 18:52 < azx> i get an error when i try to create a new folder 18:52 < evanesoteric> This affects all new connections, right, as a whole? 18:52 < azx> it says no such file or directory 18:52 < azx> what is this 18:52 < ||JD||> This is Sparta! 18:53 < azx> why is linux always messing with me m8 like i just wanna mkdir 18:53 < azx> maybew i will try 18:53 < azx> terminal 18:53 < Sonolin> sometimes crying helps 18:53 < Sonolin> azx did you remount as rw? 18:53 < azx> yes 18:54 < azx> now it has the option 18:54 < azx> to create new folder 18:54 < azx> but errors 18:54 < Sonolin> hmm, perhaps your user doesn't have the permission to mkdir? 18:54 < azx> when i try to do so 18:54 < azx> with root i get 18:54 < azx> mkdir: cannot create directory ‘asdf’: No such file or directory 18:54 < ayecee> what is the full command 18:55 < azx> sudo mkdir asdf 18:55 < ayecee> literally asdf? 18:55 < azx> yes 18:55 < azx> i've tried other naming conventions 18:55 < mutante> how about using a full path.. starting with / 18:55 < ayecee> has the directory you're in been deleted? 18:55 < azx> mkdir: cannot create directory ‘/run/media/nick/Seagate/asdf’: No such file or directory 18:55 < mutante> what does "pwd" say 18:56 < mutante> "cd ~" and then try again ? 18:56 < mutante> with the full path 18:56 < azx> . /run/media/nick/Seagate 18:56 < azx> i'm not noobin rn 18:56 < azx> this is bs not a user error 18:56 < Dagmar> This may have eluded you, but if you remove a drive containing a directory that you're "in", plugging the drive does not restore the directory 18:56 < candidat> is it easy to gather developers for an open source project ? 18:57 < azx> plugging? 18:58 < Alystair> how do I list items only owned by me (current user) in a folder? 18:58 < Sonolin> azx try this `cd; touch testfile; mkdir testdir` 18:58 < Alystair> I figure I have to pipe ls into something else 18:58 < ayecee> Alystair: the find command would be better 18:58 < azx> works 18:59 < azx> it made testfile and testdir 18:59 < Sonolin> ok so sounds like your drive is mounted fine 18:59 < azx> root is 18:59 < azx> i mean home is 18:59 < ayecee> now cd back to the previous directory 18:59 < Sonolin> oh duh 18:59 < azx> but not the external one 18:59 < Sonolin> right, you can try that in your root drive (as long as you have proper permissions) 19:00 < Alystair> yeah find command works like a breeze but outputs a ton of permission denied messages that clutter the results 19:00 < Sonolin> Alystair 2>/dev/null could help there if you want to supress errors 19:00 < Sonolin> i.e. `find . -name test 2>/dev/null` 19:01 < azx> ughhgh im going to have to mount this drive internally 19:01 < azx> to get access correctly 19:01 < Sonolin> that's an output redirect feature of most (all?) shells 19:01 < ayecee> all sounds correct 19:02 < Alystair> ah interesting 19:02 < Alystair> I'm guessing 2> means a certain type of output? 19:02 < Sonolin> yes 1 is for stdout 2 is for stderr 19:02 < Alystair> I guess either 0> or 1> is for 'good' output? 19:02 < Alystair> cool! 19:02 < mutante> Alystair: find . -uid $(id -u) 19:02 < Alystair> does that syntax work across other basic commands as well? 19:02 < ayecee> yes 19:02 < mutante> lists all the files in current dir (.) owned by your UID 19:03 < Alystair> learned something today beyond what I wanted, super cool ty :) 19:03 < ayecee> mutante: yeah, we're past that already 19:03 < Sonolin> ah yea good one mutante :) 19:03 < mutante> oops, ok 19:03 < revel> And directories, and files and directories contained within the current directory, ad infinitum. 19:03 < ayecee> recursion, n.: see recursion 19:04 < mutante> there is a -depth option for that or so 19:04 < rascul> quit recursing at people 19:04 < Sonolin> I'll recurse you if I want! 19:04 < revel> Not in front of the children, please. 19:04 < Sonolin> hahaha :) 19:04 < mutante> before this my cursor just blinked at me, now i feel like it's shouting obscenities 19:05 < turkeyhand> No protocol specified unetbootin.elf: cannot connect to X server :0 19:05 < turkeyhand> when running unetbootin under wayland I get this 19:05 < turkeyhand> it says from two years ago that it should work and it's not a bug 19:05 < Sonolin> turkeyhand sounds like you need to update something? 19:06 < turkeyhand> everthing is up to date apparently 19:06 < revel> You'd probably need Xwayland for that. 19:06 < Sonolin> or perhaps you don't have xserver 19:06 < turkeyhand> it's wayland 19:06 < turkeyhand> that's all I know 19:06 < Sonolin> well, you need X.org to run Xwayland... 19:07 < revel> It's a shim to make X-dependant things run on Wayland or summin. 19:07 < turkeyhand> xorg-server-xwayland package is installed 19:07 < revel> Haven't used Wayland, so, dunno 19:07 < turkeyhand> you haven't used wayland? 19:07 < Sonolin> turkeyhand does X run without wayland? (i.e. something like "startx" from a VTY) 19:07 < Sonolin> That would be my first step in debugging, at least... 19:08 < revel> I've heard it get called a VT and a TTY, but not a VTY :P 19:08 < Sonolin> oh, yea probably just VT haha 19:08 < revel> Anyways, I haven't used Wayland, no, as I don't use Fedora. 19:09 < Sonolin> revel you aren't missing much 19:09 < revel> And it just, well, doesn't seem to ever even try to run for me, for some reason... 19:09 < Sonolin> yea it took my a couple days getting it run under Slackware, then I found out none of my software runs without X 19:10 < revel> No, I mean on multiple distros, it hasn't even gotten past the DM or `startweston` or whatever. 19:10 < revel> I have no clue why. 19:10 < Sonolin> oh, strange 19:10 < Sonolin> I mean, Sway's clock sure looked pretty :P 19:11 < Alystair> btw, made this terminal art, hope someone appreciates it: https://gist.github.com/alystair/f12b06b3a91040d74b8279a4bfdcdcd6 19:12 < Sonolin> not sure I trust that... 19:12 < jelly> Alystair: google "ansi art" and be amazed 19:13 < fendur> I have a strange fascination for ansi art 19:13 < Sonolin> looks cool though :) 19:13 * fendur is reminded of ACiD and similar groups. Holy cow. 19:13 < Alystair> Sonolin - I'm not talented enough to obfuscate something evil, that's a premade output from an online drawing tool 19:13 < jelly> now you're an artiste 19:14 < Alystair> only talented enough to draw :'D 19:14 < Alystair> wow that's incredible Jelly 19:15 < Alystair> omg ansi version of Rodin's The Thinker - incredible 19:16 < Sonolin> https://eu1.startpage.com/do/search?cat=pics&query=ansi+art 19:16 < Sonolin> now all those D&D portraits make so much sense 19:16 < Sonolin> s/portraits/games/ 19:17 < T-Rog> so I'm trying to upgrade from Opensuse 42.1 to the latest and when I do a zypper refresh, many repositories have been moved or are missing. Is it okay to just ignore these for now or should I try to fix it? 19:18 < rascul> T-Rog did you update your repos to point to 42.3? 19:18 < jelly> Alystair: and if you need VGA 8x16 fonts for... reasons, https://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts/fontlist/ PxPlus variants are quite nice as terminal fonts, given a screen with <130dpi 19:18 < T-Rog> rascul: no. I didn't know you could do that and I don't know how to do that. 19:19 < rascul> T-Rog you might want to look through this https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:System_upgrade 19:19 < turkeyhand> No protocol specified unetbootin.elf: cannot connect to X server :0 19:19 < turkeyhand> I installed unetbootin 19:19 < turkeyhand> I get that trying to run it in wayland 19:19 < turkeyhand> anyone? 19:20 < Alystair> jelly: this is actually super handy because I have a bunch of video projects that require old school font styles - cheers 19:22 < rascul> T-Rog 42.1 is end of life for about a year now, they don't keep the repos around long after eol, you should be ok changing to 42.3 repos and running 'zypper dup' 19:25 < rascul> T-Rog if you have more questions i would recommend asking in #suse 19:25 < domhnall> turkeyhand: on which distro? 19:30 < turkeyhand> arch 19:30 < turkeyhand> domhnall, arch 19:31 < domhnall> and what iso were you using? 19:32 * domhnall honestly hasn't used unetbootin in forever...and that was even on windows. 19:34 < bls> unetbootin tends to cause more problems than it solves 19:36 < bls> dd is sufficient on *nix, and rufus/win32diskimager/rawrite are much simpler and less error prone for windows 19:36 < Elec_A> ayecee: Actually, I think you should be able to change the NIC RX ring buffer size. It shouldn't be constant. because you cannot adjust the pause frames in that case. 19:36 < ||JD||> no protocol specified usually means permissions issues, ie: you try to connect to a session that was started by a different user 19:37 < revel> ||JD||: He's on Wayland. 19:37 < bls> yeah, does he have the wayland<->X translation thing running 19:43 < jim> can wayland handle the entirety of its own defined protocol? 19:43 < revel> jim: You mean Weston? 19:43 < jim> I forgot what weston is 19:44 < revel> The reference implementation DE or summin like that,. 19:44 < jim> oh, weston is a de? 19:44 < bls> it's a compositor 19:45 < jim> oh ok 19:45 < bls> they've kind of flipped/mishmashed the traditional DE/WM/server/compositor roles 19:45 < jim> what's the difference between a compositor and a window manager? 19:46 < collins> jim: window manager just manages individual windows. The composer manages windows as a group. 19:47 < collins> jim: when I say as a group I mean that it manages the canvas that those windows are painted on, but it isn't dealing with the internals of the individual windows. 19:48 < collins> jim: the window manager deals with the internals of the windows, such as clicks and their sizes and close-events and other things I don't know about 19:48 < jim> ok... so in addition to a compositor, a window manager would be good to have? 19:49 < collins> most compositors need a separate window manager or have one built in. 19:50 < collins> I don't know about it deeper than that, don't want to give the illusion of knowing. 19:51 < jim> The Illusion of Knowing, a soapy opera about a school? 19:51 < collins> jim: the window manager handles what's inside the windows, such as scroll bars. The composer takes those windows and draws them all on the main screen, sort of. If it wants to it can add effects on the individual windows such as 3d effects and shadow casting and put them in separate workspaces (separate desktops and screens) 19:52 < collins> the composer has what's inside those windows handed to it, it doesn't control it. It only controls where on the screen, and how, the windows are drawn. The window manager handles everything inside the windows. 19:52 < turkeyhand> can anyone confirm that the ubuntu boot fix will fix the boot of this win10 and arch install 19:52 < collins> no 19:53 < turkeyhand> grub went over the mbr and I can't be bothered finding out which files it destroyed 19:53 < turkeyhand> someone here was POSITIVE it would work 19:53 < akaWolf> hi, guys! do you have working gpg with keyserver? I tried few keyservers with no success 19:53 < akaWolf> gpg: error searching keyserver: Server indicated a failure 19:53 < akaWolf> gpg: keyserver search failed: Server indicated a failure 19:53 < bls> it essentially hands out pieces of "video memory" to applications to draw in, then figures out how to layer/compose them onto the actual screen 19:53 < turkeyhand> mouses 19:53 < turkeyhand> was certain that it was a one shot fix 19:53 < collins> turkeyhand: you should know what the problem is, what your goal is and fix it directly 19:53 < turkeyhand> I should but I don't 19:54 < turkeyhand> because it involves an unknown thing to do with windows 19:54 < turkeyhand> you should know everything and just tell it to me now so I can type it in 19:55 < messiah_> Hey 19:56 < messiah_> Anybody have minute? I have doubts in safety of next cmd executions 19:56 < messiah_> https://bastienbaranoff.wordpress.com/2018/04/03/ansible-installation-of-osmocom-bb/ 19:56 < messiah_> Anybody can check? 19:56 < messiah_> Its famous guy's WP 19:57 < messiah_> But who knows 19:57 < joebobjoe> whose idea was it to use two similar sounding words for two different things? i.e., posix mtime and ctime 19:58 < prussian> some jerk i'm sure 19:58 < Dagmar> They're not words. 19:59 < ||JD||> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGQfzl1KZmM 20:00 < joebobjoe> Dagmar: what are they then you 20:00 < Dagmar> That's a filename. 20:01 < Dagmar> If you have a problem with mtime/ctime, feel free to type out the entire thing they're abbreviations for 20:01 < joebobjoe> change time. modification time. 20:01 < Dagmar> i.e., "modification time" and "creation time" 20:01 < joebobjoe> ha 20:02 < Dagmar> Yes, it would probably be less confusing if you knew what they were a shortened form of 20:02 < Dagmar> Ctime only applies to metadata, mtime only applies to contents 20:03 < mouses> turkeyhand: no luck? 20:05 < turkeyhand> I haven't done it yet 20:05 < turkeyhand> if it screws up I have no operating system 20:05 < joebobjoe> ok. that makes sense Dagmar. sorry for cussing at you 20:05 < turkeyhand> are you SURE it'll do arch ? 20:05 < joebobjoe> I didn't realie ctime *originally* meant "creation time" 20:06 < joebobjoe> but it is almost always called "chage time" in docs I've seen 20:07 < jelly> it didn't? 20:07 < sauvin> I remember reading something about ctime, don't remember what or where, but seem to recall that it doesn't actually preserve "creation time". 20:07 < jelly> not in unix content at least 20:08 < jelly> context* 20:08 < joebobjoe> well Dagmar says ctime is short for "creation time" 20:08 < joebobjoe> shall I curse him again 20:08 < sauvin> Nope. He's right, it is. 20:09 < oleo> jep 20:12 < akaWolf> hey guys 20:12 < akaWolf> dirmngr[12418.6] DBG: dns: getsrv(_pgpkey-http._tcp.pgp.mit.edu): Server indicated a failure 20:12 < akaWolf> wtf? 20:13 < akaWolf> nslookup is working fine 20:15 < messiah_> After changing sources.list i need to apt-get update to it start working? 20:16 < revel> messiah_: Yes, apt uses some cached data it gets from those sources for most things. 20:17 < turkeyhand> mouses 20:18 < turkeyhand> are you sure? 20:18 < messiah_> One more - # before address is means? 20:18 < messiah_> In sorurces.list 20:18 < messiah_> Sources* 20:18 < revel> That signifies a commented line. 20:18 < messiah_> Ty 20:19 < revel> i.e it'll be ignored by apt or whatever accesses it. # is a common sign for comments. 20:20 < notmike> jim: just call my name and I'll be there 20:21 < collins> notmike: say my name when I'm inside of you 20:21 < collins> that came out so wrong. 20:21 < collins> that's literally not what I meant. 20:21 < notmike> Hot 20:21 < collins> don't ban me for that, that just came out wrong. 20:22 < notmike> I feel unsafe now 20:22 < dgurney> yeah, if that wasn't intentional, I'm Linus Torvalds lol 20:22 < collins> I would have gotten away with it if it weren't for you, dgurney. 20:23 < collins> SysGhost: identity crisis? 20:24 < Abbott> I edited my root crontab with `sudo crontab -e` and added this line: 15 3 16 * * cat /etc/letsencrypt/live/mywebsite.com/{privkey,cert,chain}.pem > /home/abbott/.znc/znc.pem 20:25 < Abbott> but on the 16th every month when this executes, it makes znc.pem blank 20:25 < ||JD||> collins: don't try to change the subject 20:25 < Abbott> but if I just run the command right away as root, it will populate znc.pem with the correct info 20:25 < collins> ||JD||: you're my tor rival 20:25 < Abbott> is there something wrong with that crontab line that would cause this kind of problem? 20:25 < collins> ||JD||: there can only be one main tor user 20:29 < Alystair> how do I render an .ANS file o_O 20:29 < Alystair> it's ansi art 20:29 < collins> Alystair: cat the_file.ANS 20:30 < collins> Alystair: just make sure your screen is large enough 20:30 < coderman1> how would i go about resolving why i can ping a server by name and ftp from 1 server and cant ping it by either on another (the server that doesnt work can ping other sites by name and ip) 20:30 < coderman1> woops, IP not FTP 20:30 < collins> Alystair: but here's a better command: "less ansi_art.ANS" 20:30 < collins> coderman1: trace the.ftp.server 20:31 < meyou> coderman1, are these two servers on the same subnet using the same gateway? 20:31 < collins> coderman1: tracepath the.server.com 20:31 < Alystair> collins - it doesn't seem to render correctly, this is a color ansi art file 20:31 < collins> coderman1: that will tell you where the link between you and the server ends. 20:31 < Alystair> oh cat seems to work 20:31 < Alystair> sort of 20:32 < Alystair> it doesn't render the width correctly, less doesn't output color at all 20:32 < Alystair> just garble 20:32 < SysGhost> collins: sorry... kinda... feel a bit gimped... 20:32 < joebobjoe> op on? we have rape threats in chat 20:33 < Alystair> ah if I give less the -r option it renders color, now I just gotta make a set width... 20:33 < coderman1> collins: i see one server hitting an extra IP (the broken one)...do i need to flush dns or something? 20:34 < jim> notmike, I thought you were notmikejackson...\ 20:35 < collins> joebobjoe: if it's a PM it has absolutely nothing to do with ##linux (don't bring it here) and if some edgy kid said something in here hours ago once and it has stopped, don't bring it up again. 20:36 < jim> joebobjoe, you might want to get a freenode staff member a heads up 20:37 < collins> joebobjoe: either way, stop being a child. You're on IRC, stop taking anonymous rape threats seriously. 20:37 < collins> joebobjoe: and don't take it to ##linux since it has nothing to do with this channel, this isn't a freenode support channel 20:38 < jim> collins, please don't be hostile 20:38 < collins> jim: see through the hostile intent of what he's doing. 20:38 < collins> jim: I'm being anti-hostile 20:38 < collins> anti whatever he's doing 20:38 < ||JD||> joebobjoe: nothing bad about collins trying to make notmike his bitch, they are just socializing 20:39 < jim> collins, "anti whatever he's doing" is hostile by definition :) 20:39 < collins> jim: you should also know that he's trolling, he's pasting that in multiple channels. 20:39 < collins> jim: I'm anti-anti and anti dissease 20:40 < jim> anti-aunty 20:40 < jim> is that also anti-uncle? 20:40 < SysGhost> Wonder why I have a double set of invoices? ... Ah nevermind I just send em over to an alternative universe and have the stupid me paying them. 20:41 < joebobjoe> I'm not posting it in multiple channels you liar 20:41 < jim> joebobjoe, yeah, if you're pasting this in multiple channels, probably the channel you want is #freenode 20:41 < joebobjoe> but anyway it was a joke, as a delayed response to your joke (sorry) 20:41 < joebobjoe> but now we knw you're a liar 20:41 < twainwek> settle down children 20:41 < joebobjoe> I'm only in two chans 20:42 < jim> if we wer to say to yoo, grl you couldn't get much higher 20:43 < collins> jim: wanna see me jump over that shopping trolley? 20:44 < joebobjoe> collins please apologize for making unfounded accusations 20:44 < joebobjoe> that are also false. 20:44 < collins> joebobjoe: no, I am not going to aplogize. I'm getting away with it. 20:44 < joebobjoe> I accept 20:45 * domhnall note to self, question collins credibility when offering support. 20:48 < jim> collins, are you saying you lied about him being on other channels? when I checked, only found him on one 20:48 < jim> (which isn't definitive, I understand that) 20:49 < jim> collins, now that you brought that up, what other channels? 20:49 < collins> jim: #anime and ##math 20:50 < collins> jim: why are we still entertaining him/this? 20:50 < collins> this is literally the opposite of the netiquette I suggested 20:50 < Codenomics> netiquette, never heard that term before 20:50 < Codenomics> I like that 20:50 < collins> he said 1 thing and we're for every 1 pointless thing he says saying 10 pointless things about absolutely nothing 20:51 < jim> I wouldn't be, except you said: joebobjoe: no, I am not going to aplogize. I'm getting away with it. 20:51 < domhnall> Codenomics: yeah, it's really a thing. 20:51 < collins> jim: that was not literally the meaning, the context was that he admitted that we was trolling. I'm not going to apologize for his trolling, that was the joke. 20:51 < collins> jim: does this have anything to do with linux though? 20:51 < Codenomics> domhnall: I believe it, just surprisingly never heard it 20:52 < jim> nope, so it should stop here 20:52 < dgurney> what is even going on here 20:52 < jim> nothing anymore 20:52 < Codenomics> back in my day it was just called "not being a douche" but I guess netiquette is nicer lol 20:52 < collins> jim: should have a long time ago :p 20:52 < domhnall> heh 20:54 < jim> collins, so I;m slow :P and I had to wade through a lot to get to that point 20:54 < marlinc> What are currently the backup solutions for multiple servers, to have this centralized. Like Bacula? 20:56 < collins> jim: when someone nicking someguy1 says something about anonymous rape threats on irc, don't take them seriously :3 20:56 < joebobjoe> ok let's continue this discussion then 20:56 < jim> marlinc, does bacula have the feature you want? 20:56 < collins> lmao 20:56 < jim> no 20:56 < jim> joebobjoe, the discussion is ended here and now 20:57 < domhnall> centralized backups? is that an effective solution? 20:57 < collins> domhnall: that really depends, really 20:57 < domhnall> in the context of servers though 20:57 < collins> domhnall: backup is good. different solutions are vulnerable to different things and they have their different strengths 20:57 < collins> domhnall: servers can mean anything :P 20:57 < jim> servers running what? 20:57 < marlinc> domhnall, centralized in the sense that they are performed from one system. They can be stored in different locations 20:58 < domhnall> marlinc: ah, make sense. 20:58 < collins> domhnall: backups are generally better than no backups, but backups can also be a security threat. 20:58 < domhnall> jim: i dont know...that's marlinc que. 20:59 < marlinc> Bacula has that ability, I thought it wasn't being maintained but now I look at the site it appears their last blogpost was from April 20:59 < collins> domhnall: I can type things all day about different scenarios and solutions and problems and threats 20:59 < domhnall> collins: because are a threat too? or you mean at risk? 20:59 < domhnall> pah, s/because/backups 21:00 < collins> domhnall: yes, restoration of backups can be used to get into protected systems for example. 21:00 < jim> domhnall, in debian, for example... Package: bacula on amd64 -- wheezy: 5.2.6+dfsg-9; jessie: 5.2.6+dfsg-9.3; jessie-backports: 7.4.3+dfsg-1+sid1~bpo8+1; stretch: 7.4.4+dfsg-6; stretch-backports: 9.0.6-2~bpo9+1; stretch-backports: 9.0.7+dfsg-2~bpo9+1; buster: 9.0.7+dfsg-2; sid: 9.0.7+dfsg-2; sid: 9.0.7+dfsg-4 21:00 < collins> domhnall: what's your scenario? 21:00 < domhnall> wait... 21:00 < collins> domhnall: you've got a bunch of servers or what? 21:01 < domhnall> clarity... the backups are for marlinc, not me. 21:01 < domhnall> marlinc: am I the only one who can see you? 21:01 < marlinc> Hehe yes, sorry. We have lots of different servers, they can be database servers, webservers, monitoring systems, Kubernetes nodes 21:02 < marlinc> I guess so domhnall 21:02 < domhnall> ghost in the wires...well i'll be a monkey's uncle. 21:02 < marlinc> Pretty much any server I manage, obviously some servers have higher privileges and more access to internal systems. In order to protect the secrets that they use we do need do so something about those secrets 21:03 < marlinc> One option would be to encrypt the data on the server itself before it gets moved to the backup solution 21:04 < collins> better than no back up 21:04 < jim> well if you do that, that's something to undo before you can restore 21:18 < NerdTheThird> where do things go when i rm -rf them? completely deleted? 21:19 < NetTerminalGene> normal deletion process i think 21:20 < NerdTheThird> ah okay. because i can't delete files bigger than like... idk, 15gb in KDE, so i started using terminal for that lul 21:22 < candidat> nerd powah 21:28 < R13ose> Is there a distro that is small enough to boot from a usb key of around 120MB with browser and wired internet? 21:29 < meyou> i don't think there's a browser that's 120MB 21:29 < meyou> unless you count links 21:31 < SuperSeriousCat> Quick Google say there is. https://kolibrios.org/en/index 21:31 < bls> R13ose: looked at tinycore? not sure if it's got a browser or not 21:32 < SuperSeriousCat> Not Linux tho 21:32 < aib> is there a "hashbang helper" which makes it easy to convert an input file into an executable? #!/usr/bin/hashbang-helper "my-#-unaware-program --with --multiple --options" ? 21:32 < LordRyan> is it normal for aplay to have like a half second of "lost" audio? 21:32 < bls> aib: you mean #!/bin/sh ? 21:32 < LordRyan> i'm trying to test some stuff on a Raspberry Pi, and noticed that the first half a second gets cut off 21:32 < R13ose> Well would a distro allow me to install a browser afterwards? The one I tried tinycore Linux was not good enough for me. 21:32 < LordRyan> this happens as well with `aplay -d1 /dev/urandom`. 21:33 < bls> R13ose: no, you're not going to get anywhere near a normal experience in that little space 21:33 < LordRyan> R13ose: if you're using a distro that doesn't let you install a browser, and you need one, you picked the wrong distro 21:33 < aib> bls: no I mean something that strips the hashbang line and forwards the input to another program 21:33 < koala_man> aib: bls means that you'd normally write a #!/bin/sh wrapper that runs your program with whichever data it needs 21:34 < bls> aib: still not really understanding what you're asking then 21:34 < Pentode> yeah it's not really clear to me either 21:35 < triceratux> R13ose: next stop after tinycore is generally slitaz http://www.slitaz.org/en/ after that youll need a larger flashdrive 21:35 < bls> nothing forces you to invoke a script standalone/using the the #! line. you're free to sh ./foo.sh or python ./foo.py or perl ./foo.pl 21:35 < R13ose> SuperSeriousCat: the only issue would be graphics 21:35 < aib> hmm, let me come up with an example 21:36 < R13ose> triceratux: I tried slitaz but that didn't pull up GUI for me 21:36 < koala_man> the question is, is there a more specific way to do #!/bin/sh tail -n +2 "$0" | myprogram --foo --bar; exit 21:37 < koala_man> i.e. running a file with a program that can't normally be used in the shebang because it requires more flags or doesn't understand # 21:38 < bls> like old #!/usr/bin/sed -f where you *really* want extra sed args? 21:38 < aib> wow, yes, that's more eloquent than I could've ever put it 21:44 < ArchInfinity2244> Click this https://tinyurl.com/y74es89t 21:44 < dgurney> lol 21:44 < ArchInfinity2244> dgurney: What? 21:47 < turkeyhand> if I repair the windows installation and it gets rid of grub 21:47 < turkeyhand> from the command line before I boot anything can I run a command to use os-prober to find the operating systems then rebuild grub? 21:48 < turkeyhand> or: how do I boot linux 21:48 < turkeyhand> especially if it goes straight into windows 21:53 < codercat> which DE is best if you want advanced hardware settings such as disable trackpad, audio EQ, etc 21:54 < jim> codercat, it might be best if you separated the hardware settings part from the DE/gui part 21:56 < codercat> the DE Im using is kinda minimalist 21:56 < Pentode> xfce will let you disable mouse and other input devices... 21:56 < codercat> how do I check what im using 21:56 < turkeyhand> does boot-repair from ubuntu fix a win10 and arch install? 21:57 < codercat> ill take a look 21:57 < Pentode> though you could just use xset and xinput 21:58 < Pentode> theres an equalizer for pulse audio, also.. i don't think any DEs have built in equalizers as far as i know 22:01 < candidat> i m in love with tux 22:01 < revel> Have you told him 22:01 < Pentode> ive heard he's not really into humans 22:02 < codercat> ok I installed ubuntu desktop via sudo api get install (which is the easiest way to install xfce) now how do I enable xfce 22:03 < Pentode> select it at your session manager when you start x 22:03 < NerdTheThird> wait, what 22:03 < NerdTheThird> ubuntu desktop? 22:03 < NerdTheThird> you mean desktop enviroment? 22:03 < codercat> ah I gotta logout first 22:03 < NerdTheThird> if so, why not xubuntu? 22:03 < codercat> yeah 22:03 < revel> Pentode: Yeah, he likes biting them, apparently... 22:03 < codercat> brb 22:04 < revel> NerdTheThird: Does it really make any difference? You can have any number of DEs/WMs without switching distros. 22:04 < NerdTheThird> yes you can, but you're also in for some dependency hell 22:05 < NerdTheThird> like, there's literally no reason to install xfce over kde, for example 22:05 < Pentode> xfce really has very little dependencies 22:05 < NerdTheThird> just backup your stuff and do a clean install 22:05 < Pentode> especially for a desktop environment 22:05 < NerdTheThird> besides the point, pentode 22:06 < revel> NerdTheThird: Like what? 22:06 < turkeyhand> has anyone had success with boot-repair and archlinux 22:06 < turkeyhand> one person tried to convince me 22:06 < NerdTheThird> if you want 4k packages, do it 22:07 < revel> By installing xfce? That doesn't sound right... 22:07 < ArchInfinity2244> Go here https://tinyurl.com/y74es89t 22:07 < NerdTheThird> by installing number of different DE's 22:07 < Pentode> ArchInfinity2244, go walk off a pier 22:07 < revel> If by "xfce" you meant KDE, then maybe, but that's not "package hell" 22:07 < NerdTheThird> read above 22:08 < revel> It's not like anyone's going to install more than a couple anyway. And I reiterate, that's not what "package hell" is. 22:08 < Pentode> you keep saying that. but then your only argument appears to be _just that_ ;) 22:08 < bls> you switch distros instead of uninstalling things you don't use? 22:08 < ArchInfinity2244> https://tinyurl.com/y74es89t 22:08 < ArchInfinity2244> https://tinyurl.com/y74es89t 22:08 < ArchInfinity2244> https://tinyurl.com/y74es89t 22:08 < ArchInfinity2244> https://tinyurl.com/y74es89t 22:08 < ArchInfinity2244> https://tinyurl.com/y74es89t 22:08 < ArchInfinity2244> https://tinyurl.com/y74es89t 22:08 < ArchInfinity2244> https://tinyurl.com/y74es89t 22:08 < ArchInfinity2244> https://tinyurl.com/y74es89t 22:08 < NerdTheThird> i approve xfce + i3, or any other tiling manager combo. but more than 2 de's is just being an idiot 22:08 < NerdTheThird> literally use VM for such things 22:09 < bls> no it's not 22:09 < revel> Pentode: I'm saying you can do it, not that you should. Plus, unless the distro's not very good, package hell shouldn't hit. 22:09 < NerdTheThird> i don't switch distros 22:09 < bls> it's perfectly normal to mix apps from different DEs based on preference 22:09 < NerdTheThird> i just test shit in vm 22:09 < NerdTheThird> cant be bothered with different distros 22:09 < NerdTheThird> same shit different name 22:10 < ayecee> mind the language please 22:10 < Pentode> revel, i never argued otherwise. ;) 22:10 < NerdTheThird> sorry, my bad 22:10 < revel> Then what did you argue against? 22:11 < Pentode> in a nutshell, i was just saying that A: there are not that many deps, and B: installing xfce on top of an existing distribution with another environment isn't as big of a deal as NerdTheThird was making it out to be. thats all. 22:12 < NerdTheThird> xfce was just an example. i wouldnt advise anyone to test number of different de's on the main system. just use VM for that 22:13 < NerdTheThird> sooner or later you're gonna realize it legit doesn't matter, just like distro hopping 22:13 < revel> Installing a whole system just to test a couple of DEs/WMs seems a bit wasteful to me... 22:13 < NerdTheThird> in a VM dude, do you know what a vm is? 22:13 < Pentode> there _could_ be conflict issues if it got out of hand. say more than three or so 22:13 < revel> And I don't plan on distro-hopping any time soon. 22:13 < bls> this is the exact reason package managers exits 22:13 < revel> NerdTheThird: I do. And you have to install everything aside from the DE to get one running. 22:13 < bls> exist 22:13 < NerdTheThird> yeah, why not? i love breaking linux in a vm, now that's fun 22:14 < bls> install something, play around with it, uninstall it if you don't like it 22:14 < NerdTheThird> also gives me option to test new stuff in de's 22:14 < NerdTheThird> w/o potentially breaking my main sistem 22:14 < NerdTheThird> system* 22:14 < revel> I don't install a whole distro just to test one tiny variation of something... 22:15 < revel> And that's exactly what you do with a VM. 22:15 < bls> and if your distro breaks just because you installed something, it's time to find another distro 22:15 < revel> ^ 22:15 < NerdTheThird> you're joking right? 22:15 < revel> No. 22:15 < NerdTheThird> lul 22:16 < NerdTheThird> you 2 missed the point by like xyz number of light years 22:16 < revel> Is "installing a new DE = break everything" a common thing with your distro of choice? 22:17 < NerdTheThird> why are you so stubborn and stuck on de? point is taking a risk or being smart about it 22:17 < revel> Where's the risk? 22:17 < bls> drop the DE and it becomes even more outlandish 22:17 < revel> I reiterate, does installing a DE break your system? 22:17 < NerdTheThird> it definitely can 22:17 < hexnewbie> revel: Debian 9, installed lxqt the other day, the internet connection was gone, gateway was changed, DNS was replaced with a non-functioning local resolver. So in my distro of choice, yes. 22:17 < dgurney> well I can agree installing more than 1 DE can get messy pretty quickly 22:18 < stevendale> Morning cuties 22:18 < hexnewbie> There was a point where installing, hmmm, I think KDE, changed the mac address of all LAN cards to something like ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff 22:18 < NerdTheThird> lmao 22:18 < lordthumper> Hi 22:19 < revel> hexnewbie: whut? How? Did it pull in a bunch of things that readily autoconfigured your networking? 22:19 < lordthumper> Top/htop show process arguments for other users 22:19 < lordthumper> Isn't this a security concern? 22:19 < bls> lordthumper: if those other users aren't mindful, yes 22:19 < revel> lordthumper: Some things that let you pass users/passwords as arguments just hide them there. 22:19 < NerdTheThird> that's why you should stick with the DE that was on the disto you installed and just test any other in a VM. 22:19 < revel> i.e curl 22:20 < lordthumper> seems strange that linux allows users to see processes spawned by other users 22:20 < NerdTheThird> all DE's (except you GNOME!!!) are fine and have, mostly, all functions like any other 22:20 < revel> lordthumper: Why? 22:20 < stevendale> lordthumper: Windows does the same 22:20 < hexnewbie> revel: lxqt pulled connmann, yes, and it destroyed the networking. The story with the mac address was a decade old, and had to do with the DE (KDE AFAIR) supporting arcnet, pulling arcnet support utils, which configured all cards to use a arcnet-compatible MAC. 22:21 < lordthumper> stevendale: Yes 22:21 < lordthumper> Just wondering, as it looks strange 22:21 < NerdTheThird> damn hex, did you fix it in the end? 22:21 < hexnewbie> I don't even know if the thing is called arcnet, as no thing named this way seems to exist anymore 22:21 < TheWild> hello 22:21 < phinxy> arpanet? 22:21 < revel> My distro of choice doesn't automatically start running connman or arcnet as soon as I install it. 22:22 < hexnewbie> NerdTheThird: apt-get purge connman fixed the issue 22:22 < NerdTheThird> good ol' purge 22:22 < TheWild> could someone explain me the phenomenon? I mounted a tar archive with archivemount under the mountpoint I own. It did not require root privileges. 22:22 < stevendale> apt-get autoremove --purge 22:22 < stevendale> ;) 22:22 < revel> Or, uhh, anything, really. Or stick them in any runlevel. 22:22 < TheWild> But to unmount it, I have to call umount which requires root privileges 22:22 < lordthumper> Seems there is `hidepid` 22:23 < lordthumper> Got access to a seedbox and its not a vm 22:23 < lordthumper> Resources are pooled 22:23 < triceratux> hexnewbie: ive had the /run/connman/resolv.conf compromise the dns on lxqt. its easy to fix but you have to watch it these days 22:23 < phinxy> apt purge foobar 22:23 < lordthumper> But you get to see all 160GB of ram and 48 cores of whatever Xeon it is 22:24 < stevendale> does apt-get install *[TAB] work? :P 22:24 < bls> TheWild: does this archivemount not have an equivalent unmount command that can route through the appropriate priv escalation mechanisms? 22:24 < hexnewbie> stevendale: Yes, if you have bash completion configured 22:25 < TheWild> nope, its documentation says I should call umount. 22:26 < phinxy> rm the directory :D 22:26 < bls> ah, bad on that tool then, seems odd to support mount but not unmount 22:56 < stevendale> Linux > Windows XP > GNU/Linux 22:57 < stevendale> :P 23:02 < mawk> calm down stevendale 23:02 < baconicsynergy> GNU > everything 23:04 < graff> a lot of people don't realize that GNU supplies more than just software 23:04 < graff> they are also a non-profit that supplies computing hardware to non-GNU projects 23:04 < jikistro> ls 23:05 < graff> moms_pics 23:05 < jikistro> xD 23:05 < graff> bunny_pics 23:05 < graff> heh 23:05 < jikistro> rm -f moms_pics 23:05 < graff> permission denied 23:05 < graff> server error, files from before the existence of time 23:05 < NerdTheThird> ew 23:06 < lordthumper> Anyone know if its possible to run 4.x kernel on an old embedded device? 23:06 < graff> haha, anyway. no ad hominem 23:06 < graff> just having fun 23:06 < graff> lordthumper: sure of course it is 23:06 < graff> you will need to make sure that the architecture is supported though 23:06 < lordthumper> its MIPS 23:06 < graff> yeah that should be fine 23:06 < NerdTheThird> oh no, not the mips 23:06 < lordthumper> a WRT54GL 23:06 < NerdTheThird> jk 23:06 < lordthumper> ill try to compile the kernel for that just for fun 23:07 < graff> i'd start with something sort of known to work 23:07 < graff> aslo try emulate the target with qemu so you can get a brouder idea what you are up against 23:07 < lordthumper> that's a good idea 23:07 < lordthumper> i think the limitation is probably drivers 23:07 < graff> attack it from all angles, and then of course it'd be nice to build everything from scratch 23:08 < lordthumper> and ability to flash on ROM 23:08 < NerdTheThird> brouder or broader? 23:08 < graff> broader 23:08 * graff wonders wtf broud even is 23:08 * graff is broud of himself 23:08 < NerdTheThird> hahah 23:08 < NerdTheThird> nice1 23:08 < lordthumper> :-D 23:08 < lordthumper> kk thx graff 23:13 < fendur> broud is the adjective form of brode, which is equal to bro-pride. 23:14 < stevendale> Virginity 23:14 < NerdTheThird> lul 23:14 < graff> logithack: have you ever ran a non-intel linux arch from qemu? 23:14 < graff> it's a bit of a pain, no bootloader so it needs to be done differently 23:14 < graff> sorry logithack 23:15 < graff> oh he already left 23:15 < graff> i have a script i maintain for building mips debianinstalls in qemu if anyone needs it 23:15 < graff> it's pretty easy, but hunting down the proper combination of wuju is fcking terrible pain 23:17 < graff> unlike arm 32 bit though mips is really well behaved with qemu 23:17 < graff> they have that "malta" board target, which "just works" 23:18 < stevendale> Lemme smash 23:29 < betamarine> hi 23:29 < stevendale> Hi betamarine 23:30 < betamarine> does anyone here use vim to do webdev? 23:30 < trymunx> I do sometimes 23:30 < betamarine> what do you use for autocompletion? I find that ctags does not play well with javascript 23:31 < candidat> Pentode maybe he would like some banana 23:31 < stevendale> I use VIM to draw ASCII dicks :3 23:31 < betamarine> xD 23:31 < candidat> stevendale it s a life goal achieved ! 23:32 < betamarine> hi bazhang are you singaporean? 23:32 < trymunx> I have the YouCompleteMe plugin, but not sure whether that's what you're looking for 23:33 < betamarine> yeah, i do too. but it doesn't work out of the box for html/css/js 23:33 < betamarine> do you use ctags for js? 23:34 < enkeyz> yo guys, if you wanna get a job as linux server admin with no prior work experience, what can I do? 23:34 < ayecee> like, no prior work experience at all? 23:34 < xz> enkeyz, do open source projects, that always counts 23:35 < enkeyz> yep, but using, and configuring my own servers at the last 5 years 23:35 < xz> getting involved in open source communities 23:35 < ayecee> maybe start with tech support 23:35 < Loshki> stevendale: bah, not impressed. I'm sure emacs has ascii-dicks-mode.el somewhere 23:35 < enkeyz> xz: what open source project do you suggest? 23:35 < enkeyz> I'm not a programmer 23:36 < xz> enkeyz, well, I don't do server-admin stuff, I'm kernel dev. But having your name anywhere in open source project is a big advantage 23:36 < xz> enkeyz, like flask maybe? or apache (is it open source?0 23:36 < ayecee> couldn't hurt, but i don't think it's all that helpful 23:37 < ayecee> i don't think it's reasonable to expect to jump into a server admin position with no experience. 23:37 < trymunx> betamarine: I don't use ctags, but did you follow the javascript setup on the YCM github page? 23:37 < ayecee> it's not enough to be technically knowledgable 23:37 < xz> also, in that industry, do certificates count? 23:37 < xz> like AWS stuff for example? 23:38 < ayecee> that'd be one of the things that gets your foot in the door, sure 23:38 < xz> I would think they do 23:38 < ayecee> not mandatory though 23:38 < betamarine> oh hm i dont recall seeing that. I'll check it out, thanks! 23:39 < enkeyz> ayecee: any suggestions? 23:39 < ayecee> maybe start with tech support 23:40 < ayecee> that's going to be a lot of your job anyways as a sysadmin. 23:40 < ayecee> that's also where you meet future sysadmins who can recommend you and your skills. 23:50 < Codenomics> tech support... what a horrible job to have 23:51 < Codenomics> brb have to help this guy on the phone activate his office install 23:51 < Codenomics> :P 23:52 < ayecee> it's a grind some days 23:53 < xamithan> Just don't do phone support and it isn't that bad 23:53 < ayecee> internal phone support is better than external. easier to deal with people who are getting paid to talk with you. 23:54 < ayecee> also people who you can report to their boss if they give you grief. 23:54 < deww> true 23:56 < ayecee> they're also slightly less likely to be calling in drunk 23:57 < bls> also easier to get noticed if you can help/impress the right people --- Log closed Fri May 18 00:00:24 2018