--- Log opened Sat May 19 00:00:25 2018
00:06 < phre4k> is it possible to allow users to chfn without their account having a password?
00:10 < xamithan> Try it and find out
00:18 < phre4k> xamithan: if I just disable the password, chfn is asking for the password and if you press enter, nothing happens. An account with an empty password which is not disabled is obviously a bad idea because other users can just su to that account.
00:18 < phre4k> you can however still ssh into a locked account (without password) if you have set key-based auth, which is what I'm going for at tilde.fun.
00:18 < jml2> phre4k, don't do that smiley fork bang! tehehehe
00:19 < xamithan> Can root still use the cmd ?
00:19 < xamithan> You could make a wrapper for it that uses sudo
00:19 < jml2> xamithan, cmd.exe ?
00:19 < phre4k> I have set CHFN_AUTH and CHFN_RESTRICT both to no in /etc/login.defs
00:19 < phre4k> xamithan: good idea!
00:20 < jml2> phrek
00:20 < xamithan> I love wrappers with those dialog CLI GUI type things.  Hides all the important stuff from the users.
00:21  * jml2 "* eir removes ban on $a:phre4k"  XD 
00:21 < jml2> yeah he was banned previously for throwing out a smiley forky thing XD
00:25 < phre4k> I wonder why CHFN_AUTH doesn't work as intended :/
00:26 < jml2> phre4k, because you're not reading the manpage properly
00:26 < jml2> phre4k, rtfm
00:26 < jml2> it tells you
00:26 < Sveta> what does it tell
00:26 < jml2> it says exactly what it says... he said he just used "no"
00:27 < jml2> (right at the top of the manpage as well)
00:28 < phre4k> jml2: I think you're confusing CHFN_AUTH and CHFN_RESTRICT, also even the latter supports "no"
00:28 < jml2> "This parameter specifies which values in the gecos field of the /etc/passwd file may be changed by regular users using the chfn program."
00:28 < jml2> phre4k, I say rtfm over again...
00:28 < jml2> phre4k, that is a "string"
00:29 < jml2> phre4k, not a "boolean"
00:29  * jml2 -_-
00:29 < phre4k> jml2: f-ing read it yourself: "A boolean should be either the value ``yes'' or ``no''."
00:29 < jml2> phre4k,  CHFN_RESTRICT (string) <<<
00:29  * phre4k thinks that telling people to RTFM without having RTFM themselves is stupid
00:30 < phre4k> jml2: read again
00:30 < phre4k> READ
00:30 < Sveta> phre4k: jml2 says your value needs to be a strong not a bool
00:30 < jml2> no clue where you are reading about CHFN_AUTH .. it's not even in the manpage
00:30 < Dagmar> Yeah it is
00:30 < jml2> string yes...
00:30 < Sveta> string
00:30 < Dagmar> `man login.defs`
00:30 < jml2> a boolean takes yes or no, not a string
00:30 < phre4k> Sveta: For backward compatibility, "yes" is equivalent to "rwh" and "no" is equivalent to "frwh"
00:30 < phre4k> jml2: For backward compatibility, "yes" is equivalent to "rwh" and "no" is equivalent to "frwh"
00:30 < phre4k> jesus christ
00:30 < phre4k> RTFM yourselves
00:30 < jml2> trolling again phre4k ?
00:30 < phre4k> you're making me angry
00:30 < Dagmar> Mind you, this is one man page that is highly dependent upon WTF the distro has packaged
00:30 < phre4k> jml2: I'm not trolling, you are.
00:30 < jml2> phre4k, well the manpage tells me you are wrong
00:31 < Sveta> phre4k, jml2: less snarking please more constructive
00:31 < jml2> hmm
00:31 < Sveta> guide instead of frustrating him
00:31 < mawk> you can't argue with him phre4k
00:31 < phre4k> jml2: I even quoted the manpage. That said, doesn't work with frwh either
00:31 < mawk> you can present him with the most compelling evidence, he will still hold his position
00:31 < phre4k> jml2: For backward compatibility, "yes" is equivalent to "rwh" and "no" is equivalent to "frwh" For backward compatibility, "yes" is equivalent to "rwh" and "no" is equivalent to "frwh" For backward compatibility, "yes" is equivalent to "rwh" and "no" is equivalent to "frwh"
00:31 < jml2> phre4k, no I quoted the manpage. twice
00:31 < jml2> phre4k, you're reading up about a "boolean"
00:31 < phre4k> mawk: ok I'll stop, sorry
00:31 < Dagmar> The bigger question is what kind of lunatic is actually bothering with gecos restrictions
00:31 < jml2> phre4k, you're stubborn infant.
00:31  * jml2 ignores phre4k 
00:31 < phre4k> jml2: and you can't read
00:32 < phre4k> Sveta: thank you.
00:32 < mawk> you can even quote stuff contradicting what he says from websites he linked himself and he won't listen
00:32 < phre4k> mawk: yeah, I noticed
00:32 < NGC3982> can i change how the dates a formated with ls in linux?
00:32 < NGC3982> like date modified in ls -l
00:33 < Sveta> yes
00:33 < mawk> yes NGC3982
00:33 < NGC3982> is --time-style something to look at, perhaps?
00:33 < mawk> indeed
00:33 < Hydraxis> What distro would you recommend that is more or less similar to Arch (so command line install, no pre-installed package, etc), that uses systemd, but that isn't arch, arch-based or gentoo?
00:34 < phre4k> seems that CHFN_AUTH isn't working anymore? It's not mentioned in the manpage, however it's mentioned on other manpages.
00:34 < phre4k> (for chfn)
00:34 < phre4k> Hydraxis: … Arch?
00:34 < phre4k> Hydraxis: why do you not want to use Arch if your requirements are basically Arch
00:34 < mawk> Hydraxis: minimal debian installation maybe
00:35 < mawk> you can install it from another linux system to a hard drive using debootstrap --variant=minbase, install grub, stuff required for networking, then boot on it and enjoy your painful manual installation
00:36 < Hydraxis> phre4k: I don't want to use Arch, for reasons that have nothing to do with my inital question :) Debian could potentially be a good choice, but I despise apt and debian's outdated packages
00:36 < mawk> you can use something else than the stable version
00:36 < mawk> I use testing, it has up to date packages
00:39 < TheWild> uh oh, write error. Will ext4 automatically mark off the bad sector?
00:40 < TheWild> (I know, I know, I've already backed the data up.)
00:40 < phre4k> ok I just found out that CHFN_AUTH is deprecated and replaced by /etc/pam.d/chfn, but what options do I have to set there so users can change their own finger info but not other users'?
00:41 < Dagmar> None
00:42 < Dagmar> Users can't normally change each other's gecos information.  That would be insanity.
00:42 < Dagmar> By default users are allowed to change their own and no one elses.
00:43 < cxc99> why not just put all these users into a docker container? ;)
00:44 < Deele> anyone familiar with "nohup" up for a quick question?
00:46 < Deele> I try using syntax "nohup $command < /dev/null > $logfile 2>&1 &" from shell script to run process in background, but it seems that I don't get logfile in provided location and nohup is giving output of "nohup: ignoring input and appending output to ‘nohup.out’"
00:47 < Dagmar> Why are you trying to feed nohup input
00:48 < mawk> no need to </dev/null
00:48 < Deele> okay
00:49 < mawk> also no need for 2>&1
00:49 < mawk> you'd need all of these if you didn't want to use nohup
00:49 < mawk> cmd >$logfile </dev/null 2>&1 & disown
00:49 < Dagmar> You might want to familiarize yourself with the man page for nohup
00:50 < Dagmar> 'cuz mawk is basically right.  Most of what you've specified beyond "nohump $command" is fairly useless
00:50 < phre4k> my /etc/pam.d/chfn looks like this: https://paste.linux.community/view/0d0e3d07 I want users to chfn without entering a password, what do I have to change? (F27)
00:51 < Urchin> or the page of your shell, if your shell has builtin nohup
00:51 < phre4k> the password include system-auth already includes nullok, so I guess it has something to do with the user being locked (with an "!" in /etc/shadow)
00:51 < Deele> Dagmar, can logfile path be relative to working directory?
00:52 < mawk> I thought that std::filesystem was part of the standard C++ lib
00:52 < mawk> why isn't it in libstdc++.so.8, or at least included by default by g++-8
00:52  * NGC3982 was in unix.
00:52 < mawk> I have to specify -lstdc++fs on the command line
01:04 < cfoch> whatt is VT?
01:04 < cfoch> VT*
01:04 < collins> I went outside and it sucked. I hate going outside.
01:04 < mawk> linux console cfoch
01:04 < mawk> you see them with ctrl-alt-fN
01:04 < mawk> go back with ctrl-alt-f7
01:05 < cfoch> what is the kernel VT system?
01:05 < mawk> the terminal devices are in /dev/ttyN, you can make screencap using /dev/vcsN, or /dev/vcsaN for the VGA-text-mode-like color info
01:05 < mawk> I don't know
01:05 < mawk> maybe something called fbcon
01:05 < cfoch> According Wayland documentation: "A system compositor can run from early boot until shutdown. It effectively replaces the kernel vt system, and can tie in with the systems graphical boot setup and multiseat support"
01:06 < wadadli> good old remnants of the old days cfoch
01:06 < cfoch> it replaces the "kenel vt system"
01:06 < wadadli> cfoch ▸ what's your question?
01:06 < cfoch> what is the "kernel vt system"?
01:07 < kurahaupo> cfoch: is the VGA text mode consoles
01:07 < mawk> is it really vga text mode ?
01:07 < mawk> I thought it was emulated using some framebuffer device
01:08 < kurahaupo> Well, if it's emulated in hardware, what's the difference?
01:08 < mawk> emulated in kernel I mean
01:08 < mawk> vga text mode has lame resolutions, while the linux console has more resolution choices
01:09 < mawk> so it can't be only the vga text mode
01:09 < kurahaupo> Svga then
01:09 < kurahaupo> Vga is programmable for resolutions
01:09 < mawk> but you can write stuff into the framebuffer when in VT mode
01:09 < mawk> so the kernel is aware of this
01:10 < kurahaupo> I haven't checked lately, maybe it is emulated now
01:12 < rcf> There's still some support for the old text-only resolutions, I think. But there's been framebuffer support ever since the kernel was ported to non-x86 platforms with no character cell hardware modes.
01:15 < oiaohm> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kmscon  It is in theory possible to get rid of most of kernel vt
01:17 < oiaohm> rcf: framebuffer support starts while Linux kernel was x86 only.
01:17 < oiaohm> rcf: not all x86 video cards had vesa/vga modes.
01:20 < rcf> I suppose the proper way of saying that would be IBM-compatible.
01:25 < TheWild> dafuq?   umount: block devices are not permitted on filesystem
01:25 < oiaohm> rcf: IBM-compatible there are a few graphics only cards back in the xt/286 age that were still turning up in early Linux time frame.   These were cards designed to be second monitor.
01:25 < oiaohm> rcf: so none of the bios text support on those monitors.
01:25 < oiaohm> rcf: opps on those cards.
01:26 < TheWild> ah nvm. The real mountpoint was one directory higher.
01:26 < oiaohm> rcf: so framebuffer was fairly early feature in the Linux kernel.
01:27 < rcf> oiaohm: I see. Now I need to get my hands on one of these....
01:30 < oiaohm> rcf: most of the graphics only were like cheap built clones of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_8514  Please do take the note on cheap built.   If you find one today that has not been scrapped is insanely rare.  PCB of them cracked and other bad things..
01:31 < oiaohm> rcf: as I said early linux the first 4 years after ie 1991 to 1995 after that finding those card was almost impossible.
01:32 < oiaohm> rcf: of course those cheap cards in features is not much different to what you find inside mobile phone and I think apple hardware.
01:33 < arooni> how would i capture *all* output from this command ?  i think i'm missing some output to my log file complete_scheduled_calls.rb >> /var/www/find_my_phone_rails/shared/log/completed_scheduled_calls.log
01:33  * collins fills a cardboard box with old fish
01:33 < arooni> (thats from my crontab)
01:33  * collins hands it over to arooni 
01:33 < arooni> thanks collins
01:33 < arooni> we dont get much fish here in the midwest
01:34 < collins> you're welcome, I did it as a token of peace, friendship and a wish for good crops
01:37 < arooni> what shell does cron use by default?
01:40 < Sitri> /bin/sh or something that crond might call specifically instead
01:43 < Loshki> crontab(5) in my distro states "Several environment variables are set up automatically by the cron(8) daemon. SHELL is set to /bin/sh"
01:44 < phre4k> I have allowed any user to change their finger information with auth sufficient pam_succeed_if.so uid >= 1000 quiet_success in /etc/pam.d/chfn
01:45 < oiaohm> arooni: you have just found one of the fun parts about cron scripts.  It can be very important to use SHELL= at times.
02:13 < Li> I'm looking into two /boot directories on two different partitions and I'm not sure how to recognize the linux distro on each! .. are there any suggestions?
02:35 < Sitri> Li: the file command will help
02:36 < arooni> olaa: and i can specify the shell for each command as needed
02:36 < stevendale> Morning
02:36 < Sitri> Oh derp, they left
02:36 < Sitri> arooni: I find it more useful to have any non-trivial cronjobs have their own script, then I can debug the script
02:41 < phinxy> It seems syntax highligting and/or colors in the terminal is making it struggle with scrolling smoothly.  I see it happening in both framebuffer and X11, independant of editor program.. On two different computers.  Is Linux broken!?
02:42 < xamithan> linux is just the kernel,  why would it be broken?
02:42 < phinxy> I mean, is there any known bug in 4.4 kernel that could cause this behaviour?
02:43 < uplime> it could be a number of things besides the kernel
02:45 < Sitri> phinxy: what graphics driver is X using?
02:46 < phinxy> My initial plan was to try get the GPU help with drawing the framebuffer.  But it got me thinking, Didnt we have lag-free text terminals in the 70's?
02:46 < Sitri> I find framebuffer consoles do lag horribly when scrolling.  I suspect framebuffer backed X might have similar issues.
02:46 < Sitri> Yes, but you were limited to 80x25 character displays
02:47 < xamithan> You could always go back to 640x480
02:47 < xamithan> or worse
02:50 < phinxy> Can there be different resolutions per VT/VC?
02:51 < Sitri> man fbset
02:54 < phinxy> If there is only one /dev/fbN, what does that mean?
02:56 < Sitri> There's only one framebuffer device, which is actually just near-raw access to video memory
03:01 < phinxy> Sitri• fbset does only apply for the one single VT.  Is this the right behaviour?
03:03 < Sitri> It sets it for the framebuffer
03:04 < Sitri> AFAICT the VTs share the FB, only one using it at a time
03:12 < phinxy> It feels like its the amount of characters drawn on to the display and not the amount of pixels rendered that causes slow scrolling of text.
03:13 < phinxy> fbterms freetype vector fonts is quite the same scroll speed as the bitmap fonts in linux console.
03:27 < curiousx> Hey hey hey!!!
03:30  * curiousx Is goin' to install Arch on a dual boot along side Guindou$
03:37 < dannylee> hey man what up...
03:38 < dannylee> i installed gnome with all the software...and when i reboot i still get KDE..witch is really cooool
03:39 < dannylee> but i hav`ent used KDE in five years
03:40 < dannylee> KDE lets you customize every thing..its great
03:42 < Pentode> did you select KDE at your login screen?
03:42 < dannylee> no just gnome
03:42 < Pentode> most display managers have a little drop down list for selecting the environment / window manager
03:42 < dannylee> but i install all the software
03:44 < dannylee> yes i really needed a change in my life...so KDE is it
03:45 < dannylee> pool and chess are really my real hobies
03:45 < dannylee> i love all the linux games
03:46 < xamithan> You got the tuxracing?
03:46 < dannylee> na
03:46 < Aph3x-WL> wtf is guindou
03:47 < xamithan> supertuxkart
03:47 < SoItBegins> dannylee: like, nya?
03:47 < dannylee> i doe got chess
03:48 < dannylee> chess is cooool some times i even get to the end game..i play a 900 game
03:49 < dannylee> i can get beat...
03:49 < dannylee> ill play for $10 a game
03:58 < dannylee> ok ill leave...some of you guys are getting stone..but i don`t drink or smoke..i do miss  alittle bit of cocaine???i hope great things happen to you??
03:59 < Pentode> lol
04:00 < ses1984> in what kind of environment do udev scripts execute in?
04:01 < ses1984> i'm trying to automate a script to run when a bluetooth device is connected but scripts i execute from udev rules can't seem to see the devices
04:24 < phinxy> :quit
04:25 < Tech_8> hi
04:25 < Pentode> hi
04:42 < storge> my cat can eat a whole watermelon
04:42 < Tech_8> reallyh
04:42 < Tech_8> really
04:42 < Tech_8> i didnt know they licked watermelon
04:42 < Tech_8> liked*
04:42 < Pentode> fascinating
04:42 < storge> he doesn't lick it he eats it
04:42 < storge> the whole thing
04:42 < storge> in like a minute
04:42 < Tech_8> when did this happen?
04:43 < raj> how can I upload a file from my linode to a remote computer I can SSH to?
04:43 < storge> every day in the summer
04:43 < Pentode> that would make a killer video for youtube
04:43 < storge> it gets expensive
04:43 < raj> SCP, SFTP, and rsync are some options
04:43 < ses1984> so about udev rules...
04:43 < storge> i'd show you a video but, my cat can eat a whole camera
04:43 < ses1984> in what kind of environment do udev scripts execute in?
04:43 < ses1984> i'm trying to automate a script to run when a bluetooth device is connected but scripts i execute from udev rules can't seem to see the devices
04:44 < mfpx> your cat can eat a camera??? O)_(O
04:45 < storge> my cat can parse a whole tarball
04:48 < mfpx> the only balls my cat can do anything with are made of fur unfortunately, i wish it had a parser for more useful things...
04:55 < meretrix> Why is ssh so slow?  Even "ssh localhost ls" takes 108ms..
04:55 < meretrix> Is there any way to speed it up?
04:56 < meretrix> I would expect it to run at least sub 10ms
04:57 < ayecee> on what basis?
04:59 < trhr> 20 years ago i could check my mail as fast as the terminal would print the characters. now i gotta open firefox, open gmail, try to find my password, lock myself out, reset my password...
04:59 < meretrix> ayecee: It's just using the local network, and shouldn't need disk access, at least after the first run is cached.
05:00 < meretrix> The only work it's doing is checking the key
05:00 < ayecee> it also performs public key cryptography in creating the session, and runs through a lot of the same stuff it does when you log in
05:01 < meretrix> Sure, but how long does it take to check the key, 1ms or so?
05:01 < ayecee> it's not simply checking a key
05:02 < storge> who are we to stand in the way of progress
05:02 < ayecee> it's generating a random session key, encrypting that with the server's public key, and sending it to the server. the server decrypts the session key using its private key.
05:03 < storge> trhr: who are we to say browsers that take forever aren't evolution? --just kidding, i hate email now
05:04 < storge> although it was a slight improvement to set up mutt for gmail, but also kludgy in its own way
05:06 < storge> can we invent a new email? please?
05:15 < ayecee> with gambling, and hookers
05:19 < mfpx> hey usrunkwn
05:19 < usrunkwn> hi
05:19 < usrunkwn> so this is the non-help/support channel chat?
05:19 < storge> very supportive in our non-help
05:19 < mfpx> it's not meant as a dedicated support channel, but more of a casual linux chat
05:20 < mfpx> though people are helpful
05:22 < ayecee> it's whatever the people who are active at the moment decide it should be
05:22 < mfpx> pretty much ^
05:23 < usrunkwn> Ah, okay. That makes a lot more sense.
05:23 < usrunkwn> I was reading about etiquette and some channels seem to be specific about staying on topic.
05:24 < mfpx> thats # mostly, ##s are more lax
05:24 < usrunkwn> how long have you used linux?
05:24 < mfpx> me?
05:24 < Konichiwa> In Corporate Amerika, Linux uses you!
05:25 < mfpx> since ~2008, so about 10 years
05:25 < usrunkwn> Nice. I have been using it for only two years.
05:25 < mfpx> what distro?
05:25 < usrunkwn> I have one win os left, and hoping to get rid of it soon.
05:26 < Dreaman> hah i use 20 years
05:26 < usrunkwn> fedora
05:26 < usrunkwn> and debian
05:26 < mfpx> Dreaman, i reckon youre a lot older than me then!
05:26 < Dreaman> yes 36
05:27 < mfpx> agh, im 25
05:27 < mfpx> usrunkwn, what flavor of debian?
05:27 < Dreaman> usrunkwn: fedora centos os is good but i love deb base
05:27 < usrunkwn> perhaps you all could answer why there is a gnome classic/xorg?
05:28 < s0k_iT> im in the market for new laptop, anyone got some recommendations?
05:28 < mfpx> anything that doesnt come with preinstalled windows
05:28 < s0k_iT> lol
05:28 < Konichiwa> mfpx, don't worry, one day you too can claim to have used *nix for 25+ years and have a gnarly beard to the knees
05:28 < dannylee> i still have fedora 27 lxde on my dell optiplex 580..and it works great..but open suse is on my new computer...openSuse is really great..
05:28 < s0k_iT> isnt that everything?
05:29 < ayecee> s0k_iT: thinkpads are well regarded
05:29 < usrunkwn> SOKIT, Costco has some nice one's for the price.
05:29 < katie_> s0k_iT: used thinkpad
05:29 < Pentode> love my thinkpad, even though it's approaching ancient. ;p
05:29 < s0k_iT> as much as i hate to admit i was an apple guy for years since it was unix based but im over it now
05:30 < usrunkwn> It's nice not having win installed, but still hard to find, unless you're building your own or going to a linux dist.
05:30 < mfpx> Konichiwa, im sure i will!
05:30 < curiousx> s0k_iT: then came bsd* based ?
05:30 < Pentode> s0k_iT, we forgive you.
05:30 < s0k_iT> i figure ill partition anyways
05:30 < mfpx> s0k_iT, i have a macbook as its kinda required for my job
05:30 < dannylee> linux is just allot of fun tooo customize
05:30 < s0k_iT> or vm
05:31 < curiousx> dannylee: indeed!!!, even funnier using Arch
05:31 < s0k_iT> but i need something for kali, i have to run lot of pentesting tools
05:31 < dannylee> ok
05:31 < usrunkwn> mfpx, I like both os's. Not really sure if one has an advantage over another unless it is an available ap that the other doesn't carry. Otherwise, they both seem great. Perhaps that is just because I'm new. People that have been using linux for a while seem to have stronger feelings though.
05:31 < s0k_iT> linux is just so customizable
05:32 < s0k_iT> no one interferes
05:32 < dannylee> 15 years
05:32 < dannylee> about the time i got shot in the back of my head//
05:32 < mfpx> it just depends what you want to do, and which you prefer, i personally like vanilla debian and ubuntu just because of what it is, but i dont mind others
05:32 < storge> poettering interferes
05:33 < s0k_iT> ubuntu is nice cause its got so much support
05:33 < dannylee> i`m sorry i`m a bit handycap
05:33 < storge> dannylee you got shot in the back of the head?
05:34 < mfpx> his client died it seems
05:34 < usrunkwn> I haven't tried ubuntu....was in deb for awhile then fed.
05:35 < mfpx> consider trying it, theres A LOT of support for it, and its just a nice flavor of debian in general
05:35 < usrunkwn> with whatever stock desktop enviro it came with.
05:35 < curiousx> Yo! guys see my rice: https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn/comments/8ji1iq/i3gapslong_time_no_rice_reloaded_wow_global_css_i/
05:35 < usrunkwn> Thanks, I'll look into it.
05:36 < usrunkwn> I tend to stick with something if it does what I need it to do.
05:36 < mfpx> what is it that you need it to do?
05:37 < krwq> hello, I got issue with scrolling with my mouse in some apps (i.e. gnome-terminal) - it works only when I hold my wheel while scrolling. Any clues?
05:37 < mfpx> krwq, what distro/flavor?
05:37 < krwq> mfpx: Ubuntu 16.04
05:37 < mfpx> thats an oldie
05:38 < usrunkwn> be a stable os, use office programs, play some games, connect with servers, run server, run relational dbs.....do gis stuff,...
05:38 < usrunkwn> so far, I haven't not been able to do something I've wanted to do.
05:38 < mfpx> usrunkwn, ubuntu is fairly stable
05:38 < mfpx> AND can do all of that
05:39 < krwq> mfpx: a little :-) any clues how to fix that?
05:39 < usrunkwn> I'm sure it can.
05:39 < usrunkwn> if its based on deb. But why switch if deb already does what I need?
05:40 < mfpx> krwq, i gave it a thought, try logging out of x, and back in again
05:41 < usrunkwn> The only big thing I am worried about is the bandwagon effect that seems to be happening with software and now some linux software, and that is the need to integrate google. I have no interest in that.
05:41 < mfpx> also, might be your mouse, so try a different one
05:41 < Sveta> you can fork software that integrates Google, and distribute an exact copy that has that disabled
05:42 < notmike> Um
05:42 < krwq> mfpx: ok, I've just tried running x on different tty and seems to be working :) thanks! any clues how to reset just mouse?
05:42 < mfpx> krwq, no idea, sorry
05:43 < storge> maybe something in xset
05:43 < storge> man xset
05:43 < storge> there are mouse options
05:43 < storge> i forget which though
05:43 < Exaeta> I have an issue. there's a device that I'm adding, but it's being added twice (it's one device) and so I'm pretty sure it's gonna get corrupted
05:44 < storge> what device, and how do you know
05:44 < usrunkwn> One story: my "smart phone" had all the accounts removed from it......it pushed an update (even though it was turned off), removed the feature to turn off auto updates, and added all my accounts that I removed....
05:44 < Exaeta> it's mounting as /dev/sdg1 and /dev/sdh1 at the same time
05:44 < Exaeta> Ext4 (version 1.0) — Mounted at /media/rnicholl/933d8cc4-b339-4f16-872e-07bb7daa49531
05:44 < Exaeta> Ext4 (version 1.0) — Mounted at /media/rnicholl/933d8cc4-b339-4f16-872e-07bb7daa4953
05:44 < Exaeta> It's appearing as two block devices but there's only one device
05:44 < storge> interesting block device naming
05:45 < mfpx> well guys, im off to bed, need to do stuff when i get up
05:45 < mfpx> g'night!
05:45 < usrunkwn> as soon as the contract is up, i'm going back to a dumb phone. Just wish I could have my 2g nokia back.
05:45 < usrunkwn> gnight mfpx
05:45 < krwq> Exaeta: try lsblk and tell what it prints
05:45 < krwq> Exaeta: and which one is your device
05:46 < Exaeta> https://ibb.co/b88bWT
05:46 < Exaeta> https://ibb.co/cZmVrT
05:47 < krwq> Exaeta: is that you lsblk output?
05:47 < zebmccorkle> usrunkwn: if your phone's Android, you can probably flash a LineageOS ROM and no gapps, so it's just stock Google-free Android
05:47 < zebmccorkle> and without an app store stock Android might as well be an ever-so-slightly smarter dumb phone
05:48 < Exaeta> https://pastebin.com/2rufsKR8 krwq sdh and sdg are the same device
05:48 < Exaeta> the same real device
05:48 < krwq> Exaeta: try fdisk - my guess is you got more than one partition on your device
05:48 < Exaeta> no
05:48 < usrunkwn> zeb, will it still work with my carrier?
05:48 < storge> krwq: that was my suspicion too
05:48 < usrunkwn> I'll have to look into that. thanks for the info.
05:49 < storge> Exaeta: are you sure there aren't two filesystems on there
05:49 < zebmccorkle> should, I typically use LineageOS and it's always worked fine with my carrier, on or off a T-Mo installment plan or AT&T 2-yr contract
05:49 < Exaeta> storge: krwq https://pastebin.com/KfT7vyB9
05:49 < storge> zebmccorkle: what does/doesn't the phone do with lineageOS?  --aside from what you said about no app store
05:50 < krwq> Exaeta: ok that is super weird - no clue
05:50 < storge> zebmccorkle: because i like the sound of it, i wonder if ting would care
05:51 < usrunkwn> I heard there is a linux phone in the works.....i just really like the idea of having a base OS, and the ability to add just the programs I want, that I feel comfortable using.
05:51 < Exaeta> Well it's a USB stick "emulator" and not a "physical" usb stick, i.e. it's an app on my phone that makes a USB image available to the desktop image
05:51 < zebmccorkle> LineageOS is pretty much stock Android (a.k.a. AOSP/Android Open Source Project) with slight tweaks (such as a replaced launcher), you can install Google apps (like the Play Store, etc.) separately
05:51 < storge> Exaeta: ah
05:51 < Exaeta> I'm thinking it's making it available on multiple methods and linux isn't detecting that right
05:51 < zebmccorkle> I've never heard of a carrier caring about installing unofficial OSes (e.g. Lineage)
05:52 < storge> 21:48 < Exaeta> https://pastebin.com/2rufsKR8 krwq sdh and sdg are the same device
05:52 < storge> 21:48 < Exaeta> the same real device
05:52 < storge> 21:48 < Exaeta> https://pastebin.com/2rufsKR8 krwq sdh and sdg are the same device
05:52 < storge> 21:48 < Exaeta> the same real device
05:52 < storge> but it's not
05:52 < Exaeta> storge: real from the kernel's perspective
05:52 < storge> sorry for double paste
05:52 < Exaeta> usb is just a protocol
05:52 < storge> yeah but to us humans asking you
05:52 < zebmccorkle> and re: Linux phone, I think you're talking about the Purism Libre 5, which runs PureOS (Debian deriv.)
05:52 < storge> real device sounds like a thing
05:53 < Exaeta> well basically the kernel is detecting it twice instead of once, and other people don't seem to have that issue
05:53 < storge> and as for linux not detecting it right, maybe the app is sending it wrong
05:53 < krwq> Exaeta: possible you got some virtual file system mounted? (i.e. check for entries under /etc/mtab)
05:55 < krwq> Exaeta: what happens if you umount one of them? do you get just one or both get unmounted?
05:56 < Exaeta> just one
05:57 < krwq> Exaeta: I'd just mount by hand
05:57 < Psi-Jack> Well, that was fun. One of my Proxmox VE servers was having odd recurring random issues with the SSD drive. Resetting, going offline, triggering a crowbar hammer to reboot itself. Replaced the SATA cable to the SSD. Not one error since.
05:57 < krwq> Exaeta: disable all auto-mounting or whatever you got
06:02 < Pentode> Psi-Jack, it's amazing how many times I get the eye roll when I suggest replacing data cables at work.. o_O
06:03 < Psi-Jack> Pentode: Heh
06:03 < Psi-Jack> I mean, sometimes it really is JUST the cable.
06:03 < Pentode> it's rare but it happens once in a while ;p
06:03 < Psi-Jack> They make those things cheap, and they are of a fairly flexible copper which does break down.
06:04 < Pentode> probably much more prevalent in server environments
06:05 < Psi-Jack> And, well, this is a hypervisor box that heavily does a lot of I/O on disks.
06:05 < mwd> or perhaps less prevalent if the wires are not routinely flexed
06:05 < Pentode> a lot of the cheap cables don't even use copper conductors
06:05 < s0k_iT> so i got some decent money set aside for new laptop, all ive heard is thinkpad so far in this channel just trying to weigh my options
06:06 < Psi-Jack> Never buy Lenovo.
06:06 < Psi-Jack> Or System76.
06:06 < s0k_iT> coming from a macbook
06:06 < mwd> s0k_iT, Purism makes some linux friendly laptops
06:07 < s0k_iT> i need coding, pentestesting, and fun lol
06:07 < Psi-Jack> Testing ink wells are you?
06:08 < s0k_iT> Purism ill have to check them out, im unfamiliar
06:08 < Pentode> ive always liked my thinkpads. whats wrong with lenovo?
06:09 < mwd> google Superfish
06:09 < Psi-Jack> ^ superfish. Twice.
06:09 < s0k_iT> thinkpad is linux preinstall?
06:09 < Psi-Jack> No.
06:10 < Psi-Jack> Plus the quality of Lenovo has gone way down ..
06:11 < s0k_iT> i just hate partitioning a laptop i feel like it ruins it
06:11 < s0k_iT> for oses
06:11 < Pentode> such a shame
06:11 < mwd> ...
06:11 < mwd> you can nest it instead
06:11 < mwd> host os + a VM
06:11 < Psi-Jack> Or container, depending.
06:11 < s0k_iT> vm just isnt the same
06:12 < s0k_iT> but to run kali it doesnt make sense to run it any other way than vm
06:12 < Psi-Jack> !kali
06:12 < Psi-Jack> !kill s0k_iT
06:12 < s0k_iT> I need kali!
06:12 < Psi-Jack> heh
06:12 < Psi-Jack> NO!
06:13 < Psi-Jack> Nobody ever /needs/ that nonsense crap.
06:13 < s0k_iT> im on the good side, pentest
06:13 < Psi-Jack> And?
06:13 < s0k_iT> getting my M.S. in cybersecurity
06:13 < mwd> we dont know that, you could be a mole
06:13 < Psi-Jack> And?
06:13 < s0k_iT> just nice to have everything preconfigure and installed
06:13 < Psi-Jack> Everything that's on Kali is obtainable, easily, on any other distro.
06:14 < s0k_iT> i know that
06:14 < s0k_iT> but kali makes it easy
06:14 < s0k_iT> its all there ready to go
06:14 < Psi-Jack> So does ParrotSec OS>
06:14 < s0k_iT> havent checked that OS out
06:15 < s0k_iT> standard tho, im still an ubuntu guy
06:15 < s0k_iT> i like the support
06:15 < Psi-Jack> You mean, the lack of support you'll get with Kali ? ;)
06:16 < s0k_iT> kali isnt about support, its about ready to go with pentesting tools
06:16 < mwd> ha, a ubuntu mole, i knew it
06:17 < s0k_iT> and kali got rapid 7 behind it, they got money
06:17 < Aph3x-WL> no they don't
06:18 < s0k_iT> umm, they own metasploit rights, kali, and they do CEH certifications
06:19 < s0k_iT> rebuttal?
06:21 < Aph3x-WL> how does owning the rights to products they give out for free mean "they got money"?
06:21 < s0k_iT> they are not all free there is corporate services
06:23 < Aph3x-WL> lol
06:23 < s0k_iT> there are corporate versions of metasploit
06:24 < s0k_iT> and certifications are expensive
06:24  * Psi-Jack yawns.
06:24 < s0k_iT> owning right to freeware can always make money
06:25 < s0k_iT> just have to work it right
06:26 < s0k_iT> shit, look at Fortnite that game is free, you think they are making money?
06:27 < Aph3x-WL> yes
06:27 < Aph3x-WL> because people buy things from the shop
06:27 < Aph3x-WL> and it wasn't always free
06:27 < s0k_iT> same with metasploit for enterpirse
06:27 < Aph3x-WL> and you can still buy founders packs which obviously cost money
06:27 < jim> I'm not quite understanding thei conversation.... who are you talking to?
06:28 < Aph3x-WL> you're saying there are the same amount of people giving money to fortnite as there are paying for metasploit?
06:28 < Aph3x-WL> jim: who?
06:29 < jim> exactly
06:29 < Aph3x-WL> do you have him /ignored? :D
06:29 < s0k_iT> no i am not, but i am saying organizations have a lot of money and are paying for provided services that are not provided in the standard metasploit
06:30 < Aph3x-WL> why make a comparison and then say you're not making a comparison?
06:30 < s0k_iT> I beleive it is a subscription fee
06:30 < jim> I have some really old /ignores
06:30 < s0k_iT> I am making the comparioson to show that free software can make money
06:31 < Aph3x-WL> probably better that way, i think he's a troll
06:32 < s0k_iT> im not a troll come on now
06:32 < notmike> That's sexist
06:32 < s0k_iT> im just saying its not unheard of to think that a seemingly free service is making money
06:33 < Kremator> s0k_iT, free software can make a lot of money, where i work we charge for reformattign and reinstalling frigging debian
06:33 < s0k_iT> and metasploit is a number one pentest tool so it has the publicity to generate some money if implemented the right way
06:34 < Kremator> s0k_iT, i had understood that metasploit was already outdated
06:34 < s0k_iT> thanks Kremator, someone understands
06:34 < bomb> Kremator: as someone who considers releasing his software as open source, i doubt i can make enough money off of it to buy beer daily
06:35 < Kremator> free software or not, end user doesnt know anything more complex than launching the browser
06:35 < s0k_iT> its not outdated its continually mananged and upadated
06:35 < Kremator> bomb, make it as a service
06:37 < s0k_iT> enough on that
06:38 < s0k_iT> good game everyone
06:39 < bomb> Kremator: sounds like suitable for web applications only :)
06:39 < Kremator> bomb, what kind of softwaredo you write usually if may i ask?
06:44 < bomb> Kremator: small GUI/CLI tools for x86 systems
06:44 < Kremator> bomb, that's even easier to cash on, put a crypto miner on it and there you go
06:44 < s0k_iT> whats the architecture gonna look like after quantam?
06:45 < Kremator> just kidding, if you only do small tools, you should consider "selling" premium accounts with a whole package including some exclusive programs and its source
06:45 < Kremator> s0k_iT, do you mean after quantumn computers?
06:46 < s0k_iT> yea x86 is processing architecutre so what does quantam look like?
06:46 < s0k_iT> im aware of my mispelling by the way, had a few drinks
06:47 < Kremator> well x86 and amd64 will look like toys, considering uatumn stuff would use a completely different architecture and x86 cannot compete with it in anyway
06:47 < Kremator> (that's boviously in ahypotethic scenario where quantum computers already fits in each user home without causing us cancer and using a fukton of energy)
06:48 < cyphex> Hey, does anyone know why putting 'Option: "Primary" "True"' under the desired monitor's section has no effect?
06:48 < s0k_iT> with quantam multiple sates are assigned simultaneously and that just blows my mind
06:49 < cyphex> I'm doing my BSc thesis on quantum chemistry and quantum computers still blow my mind :P
06:49 < s0k_iT> well im glad im not the only one
06:49 < Kremator> s0k_iT, well, the most important thing when quantum computation finally arrives its that almost all computer in the planet will be vulnerable from bruteforce from it
06:50 < s0k_iT> how so?
06:50 < Kremator> and the cryptography levels of encryption needed to defend from them, would be too "heavy" for common x86 and amd64 computers
06:50 < s0k_iT> i was talking about this with a co worker today, he was saying quantam is unbreakable, i said well u just need a botnot of quantam computers
06:51 < Kremator> s0k_iT, in theory, quantumn computer will be hundrd of scale factor more powerfull than a conventioal transistors powered processor
06:51 < Kremator> not like 1000% more powerfull, but more like 1 billion times more powerfull
06:51 < s0k_iT> but get a botnet of quantam then what?
06:51 < cyphex> then you make the problem worse i guess :P
06:52 < Kremator> quantumn cryptography will be indeed unbreakable from brute force standpoint once it arrives
06:52 < Kremator> s0k_iT, if you could solve bruteforcing cryptography just as adding a botnet to the process, why do you think all the computers in the planet arent already being hacked by any 101 botnets out there
06:52 < s0k_iT> i think a quantam botnet = appocalpyse
06:53 < s0k_iT> because they arent being targeted
06:53 < Kremator> nah, the real apocalypse will come when we discover we cannto produce cheap computer parts anymore because we run out of major resources
06:53 < s0k_iT> as processing power rises the less effective encryption becomes
06:53 < Kremator> which is hard to see in foreseable future, since CPUs are made of sand
06:54 < cyphex> not literally sand, but yeah
06:54 < wadadli> Kremator ▸ 10 bucks a die
06:54 < Kremator> s0k_iT, that's a fallacy, because the more computing power you have to "vreak" stuff, the more you cancomplexify your base cryptogrsaphy
06:54 < Kremator> cyphex, well yeah, silice, but you get my point
06:54 < s0k_iT> new encryption standards will be produced, but as processing speed increases the less effective they become in regards to brute force
06:55 < Kremator> s0k_iT, let me give you a tip
06:55 < Kremator> read about RSA enbcryption algorithm
06:55 < Kremator> read when it was created
06:55 < s0k_iT> i have
06:55 < Kremator> pro tip : even today, we cannot break RSA in any reliable way, moree than some anecdotical ocasions
06:55 < s0k_iT> how many versions of RSA are there?
06:56 < Kremator> no idea
06:56 < Kremator> but it's not about an implementation problem, but an mathematical/algorithm problem
06:56 < Kremator> the more computing power you have, the longer the hashes you can decrypt if you have the right key
06:57 < cxc99> does anybody know about kerberized nfs shares? and keytabs?
06:57 < Kremator> + i guess you can always plug off your computer from internet :)
06:58 < Psi-Jack> plug "off?" :p
06:58 < cyphex> I'm interested to see how long it will take for quantum computers to crack 256-bit AES
06:58 < s0k_iT> why do you think RSA is so secure?
06:59 < s0k_iT> the AES 256 i give it a couple months after quantam if that, that the government needs whole new standard
06:59 < s0k_iT> mine as well just tokenize, leave third party responsible
06:59 < cxc99> do i need to regenerate the keytab every day?
07:00 < Kremator> s0k_iT, that's correct bu falacy, because probably, the very first owners of quantumn computation will be govt.s
07:00 < Kremator> at least big ones
07:01 < Kremator> and i would bet AES256 will be beaten the very same day IBM or ay other corp release a mini quantum computer for sale in civilian market
07:02 < s0k_iT> so heres the question? and a million dollar one... can an encryption be coded that isnt correlated with burte force processing speed of the future?
07:03 < cyphex> probably no
07:03 < cyphex> you still need a key, and that key can be guessed by someone
07:03 < Kremator> s0k_iT, sure, you can make right now, a encryption system that would work in the next 1000 years, even if that implies making a today full powerful machine last 10 years to decrypt a text file lol
07:03 < s0k_iT> my opionion, code can always be beat just give it time and processing power
07:04 < Kremator> cyphex, but in that case, we are not seeing bruteforcing the encryption, but more like stealing the key form someone, the human factor always will be the vulnerable link of the chain
07:04 < s0k_iT> i hear that, thats a breach not a crack
07:04 < Kremator> s0k_iT, code isnt just "code" there are mathematical implications that i di think you are not very well aware off
07:05 < Kremator> what strengthens the bruteforcing power, also strengthens the encryption power so
07:05 < Kremator> it would be an endless race
07:06 < phinxy> Is there a way to make "rm -r /tmp/foo/*" not error when the directory is empty?
07:06 < s0k_iT> I have coded, but not full algorithms that are perfroming encyption standards so you can call me out on that
07:06 < ayecee> phinxy: what is the error
07:07 < phinxy> ayecee• No such file or directory
07:07 < ayecee> test that the directory exists first
07:07 < ayecee> or ignore the error
07:09 < Kharma> rmdir is good for removing empty directories
07:21 < phinxy> Does wget allow two or more URL:s to download?
07:21 < phinxy> wget http://foo.bar https://ping.pong
07:22 < veridiam> wget {http://foo.bar, https://ping.pong} works
07:23 < Sveta> :-)
07:25 < Kharma> I'm not sure where to get support for this.. Is it normal to see 2 entries for every single thing in IRC RAW logs? Every entry is duplicated.. different clients show same thing so either its normal or something is wrong with my ZNC
07:59 < sauvin> Hrm. Hexchat seems to be barfing just joining *this* channel. Wonder why.
08:05 < Dreaman> sauvin: you use mint or not update ubuntu
08:05 < Dreaman> insteresting
08:07 < sauvin> Can't update just yet, gotta do a pile of backups first.
08:07 < Dreaman> ok
08:07 < sauvin> It'll join dozens of other channels, but not *this* one, for some reason. Started doing this suddenly, after a few months of (relative) stability.
08:08 < luke-jr> maybe the user list size?
08:08 < sauvin> That's what I'm thinking, but it seems to me it's handled larger.
08:09 < s0k_iT> this 'is' the linux channel
08:09 < sauvin> Yea, but this isn't "me" - it's a echo of me running in a VM.
08:10 < s0k_iT> restart
08:10 < sauvin> Did that, several times since this started, even. No effect.
08:11 < s0k_iT> so whats the prob in vm?
08:11 < sauvin> I'm running hexchat from within a VM because the hexchat on the host is the one that's barfing.
08:13 < s0k_iT> doesnt give me much to troubleshoot, just complaining
08:14 < sauvin> I know. The host's hexchat is 2.10.mumble, and the one in the VM is 2.14.mumble, maybe that's what's different in one regard. Userlist size, or maybe somebody has some kind of funky character in a gecos?
08:25 < deltharac> d
08:31 < uberwag> remote connect to a linux desktop version, is vnc the only way and is this the safest way or any alternatives?
08:32 < pnbeast> uberwag, why bother connecting to "a linux desktop version".  Just use SSH and run what you want, rather than a whole desktop.
08:34 < uberwag> pnbeast: well it is my home desktop and i have some applications that requires gui and if i connect from remote, i like to use that
08:34 < pnbeast> uberwag, and that's what X forwarding in SSH provides - access to GUI programs.
08:35 < meta-434> is there someone here who can help me figure out how to repair / format my drive? I'm running in to so many problems.
08:35 < genewitch> what filesystem
08:35 < pnbeast> Unfortunately, there's a loss in reliability/persistence.  So, you can run VNC via an SSH tunnel, which helps a lot.  Some VNC software uses SSH, now, I think.  Maybe.
08:35 < uberwag> pnbeast: ok, so X forwarding in ssh, i will google that, thanks
08:35 < meta-434> I'm guessing HFS+ since it was pulled out of a macbook
08:36 < uberwag> ok, so if i can use vnc over ssh this is "best" ?
08:36 < genewitch> but what does that have to do with linux
08:36 < genewitch> uberwag: if you gotta run linux gui stuff, yes
08:36 < genewitch> uberwag: but you need an X server on the machine you are connecting FROM
08:36 < genewitch> i.e. it either needs to be linux, or you need an app for whatever os
08:37 < pnbeast> uberwag, you'll have to determine what's best.  I use SSH by itself for almost everything, because it's trivial/easy.
08:40 < uberwag> pnbeast: the idea occured when i wanted to use my home desktop from remote locations, basically i have a centos 7 with a gnome running on my home pc, i am not a cmd line expert, i know much can be done from a remote, but for example when using editing programs for audio, which i do, then you cannot do this over ssh?
08:40 < uberwag> in a windows environment you would rdp right?
08:41 < pnbeast> uberwag, I don't know a way to tunnel the audio to the client end.  So, maybe you could edit with something like audacity where you can "see the music" in the GUI tool to some degree.  But I think that will be too hard.
08:43 < uberwag> pnbeast: i already feared that would be hard, but the best way to emulate working from my home desktop, but then from a remote connection, that would be x11 over ssh?
08:44 < pnbeast> uberwag, what I use, across dozens of machines every day, constantly, is sshd on the remote end, configured to support X tunneling, plus the ssh client on the client end, configured to use the X forwarding option (-X, sometimes -Y, IIRC).
08:45 < pnbeast> uberwag, I suspect there are dozens of "tutorials" all over the WWW describing the setup details.
08:46 < hexnewbie> Remote X desperately needs a replacement, with Qt no longer working over it (maybe except in bleeding edge Qt), Wayland coming to our X away, etc. I've been thinking of giving x2go a go, even though I don't know if it does seemless window integration like X or if it will be supported in Wayland world.
08:46 < uberwag> ok, having dozens always make me fear there are also quite some "bad" ones, could you find one that you say is best compared to your experience?
08:46 < hexnewbie> Wayland coming to take our X away, rather
08:50 < domhnall> hexnewbie: have to agree with that comment 'bleeding edge' Qt. fwiw, Wayland + Plasma on Arch was fairly flawless.
08:51 < pnbeast> uberwag, run sshd on the "home" maxn., ensure Linux kernel firewall accepts connections on the port sshd is using, use ssh-keygen to generate a keypair for auth., make sure public end is installed on "home", make sure private end is installed on remote.
08:51 < domhnall> pretty much crashed every other session on Gentoo...(for me anyway)
08:51 < pnbeast> uberwag, then, on remote, type "ssh <name or ip of "home".
08:52 < uberwag> pnbeast: yes i can setup the basic ssh, just forwarding x11 over it is something i never done
08:55 < pnbeast> uberwag, it's a line in the ssh*d* config file, maybe set by default on your distro, maybe disabled by default, plus a flag added to the client when you run ssh.  (which, again, can be added to your personal ssh config file on the client, so you don't need to type it).
08:56 < uberwag> pnbeast: ok, will first try this setup on virtual machine, should be then easy to figure out
08:56 < uberwag> thanks!
08:57 < pnbeast> As someone said, if you're using an OS without an X server for the client, then you'll need to get one for it.  That's usually simple enough if you're running any of the popular alternative OSs.
09:08 < Hooloovo0> I've got to the point where I just do make -j for kernel builds
09:08 < Hooloovo0> if something breaks, whatever
09:32 < Dagmar> hehe
09:32 < Dagmar> The kernel build won't get terribly disastrous from that
09:32 < Dagmar> Things like glibc however...
09:34 < zzero1> how I would write the $ pv </dev/sdd >image.iso if the image iso file was on a remote server and I was accessing it via ssh ? I 've tried $ssh user@host 'pv image.iso' > /dev/sdd   but I do not get any output from pv. How I should rewrite it, in order to get the progress ?
09:34 < Dagmar> Progress?
09:34 < zzero1> yes
09:34 < Dagmar> If blessing a file as a pv takes more than a few seconds something's awry
09:35 < zzero1> I want the progress of the cat
09:36 < zzero1> cat the remote file to the local block device with progress
09:36 < Dagmar> Use dd to clone it.  It can display a progress bar
09:36 < zzero1> speed ?
09:36 < Dagmar> There are a lot of red flags here tho... "image.iso" for one
09:37 < Dagmar> zzero1: Beign that dd's one and only job is copying blocks of data around, you're not going to find anything faster
09:37 < zzero1> shoot questions if you like
09:37 < Dagmar> Are you talking about some _binary_ named 'pv'?
09:38 < zzero1> pipe viewer
09:38 < Dagmar> Ah.  Got it.  Un momento
09:38 < zzero1> I wanna do the cat file.iso > /dev/sdd
09:38 < zzero1> it's just that the file is not locally stored
09:39 < Dagmar> ssh.
09:39 < Dagmar> You can call ssh to run specific commands on a remote host, and just take stdout from there
09:39 < zzero1> yes
09:39 < zzero1> ssh
09:40 < bomb> ssh is a wonderful piece of technology :)
09:40 < zzero1> that's what I feel like doing
09:41 < zzero1> getting the binary file to sdout and redirecting it via ssh to the local block device
09:41 < zzero1> or at least that's my understanding
09:42 < Dagmar> Unless you wanna use netcat it's the easiest thing to do
09:42 < zzero1> it works nice, I just wanna have a progress report
09:43 < zzero1> netcat I feel over-complicating it :P
09:43 < zzero1> no offense :)
09:43 < Dagmar> If you wanted to get fancy you could use zmodem.   ;)
09:43 < zzero1> hmm
09:43 < sauvin> I'm using netcat and ncat (they're not the same) to do an end run around some annoying restrictions to connect to my database.
09:43 < zzero1> I gonna look it up
09:44 < GenteelBen> Why, if it isn't my dear friend Dagmar.
09:44 < Dagmar> Understand the zmodem thing was sarcasm.  It would *do* it, but it would be an incredibly byzantine way to transfer a file
09:44 < zzero1> the real question is why the pv is silent
09:45 < zzero1> Yeah I got the sarcasm
09:46 < Dagmar> Where are you sending stderr?
09:46 < zzero1> good question
09:46 < simulant> hey can anyone help. I'm trying to extract a file from a big 1.5tb tar.bz2 - but I've left it running for like 3 days and nights and nothing seems to be happening... How do I check if it is still even running? I ran tar -xvf filename.tar.bz2 /home/user/specific_file_i_want_extracted.tar.gz
09:46 < zzero1> nowhere
09:47 < zzero1> and in truth I might be screwing up bash escaping
09:47 < Dagmar> simulant: iostat would be a lazy man's way to look
09:48 < Dagmar> simulant: If nothing's doing signifiant reading, then you can rule out tar still doing anything useful
09:48 < simulant> Dagmar: thanks - how would I check with lostat specifically to see what is going on?
09:49 < Dagmar> zzero1: It also appears if you want a progress bar that you have to tell it explictly how long the file is
09:49 < Dagmar> simulant: Just type `iostat 2` and watch it for about 5-6 iterations
09:49 < zzero1> well theoretically yes
09:49 < simulant> Dagmar: ok thanks
09:50 < zzero1> I know
09:50 < zzero1> it just pv should stout sth when works ok
09:50 < sauvin_> "stout sth"?
09:51 < Dagmar> He lost me there too
09:51 < Dagmar> pv *only* does reporting to stderr.
09:52 < simulant> Dagmar: it just gives a load of kb read but I can't see anything written... could it still be reading through trying to find the specific file I want to extract? I don't get why it takes so long if I specified the location of the specific file and the specific file isn't very big even if the archive is massive...
09:52 < Dagmar> Otherwise it would just *corrupt* whatever data you were trying to pass throught it
09:53 < zzero1> sorry guys, I meant output to the terminal
09:54 < zzero1> if I was to run $pv mytextfile.txt
09:54 < Dagmar> simulant: I see a tool called pidstat that could be useful
09:54 < zzero1> and the text file existed
09:55 < Dagmar> It would encourage you to use less enter and more spacebar?
09:56 < zzero1> it does give output in the terminal
09:56 < Dagmar> simulant: It's also possible you've angered the gods and have *one* bad sector on the disk that tar file is on
09:57 < Dagmar> Tar is *old* and doesn't always handle corrupted archives well
09:59 < zzero1> the question should be what I do wrong and I don't the stderr pv output with the progress report
10:07 < zzero1> question
10:07 < zzero1> does ssh shows stderr ?
10:07 < zzero1> I think not
10:07 < zzero1> by default
10:08 < pnbeast> zzero1, it would be really hard to test that hypothesis, wouldn't it?
10:11 < zzero1> pnbeast: sarcasm in the air ?
10:12 < pnbeast> What?  No.  Never.
10:14 < zzero1> I thought you meant that this was sth that someone would be able to figure out
10:17 < Bocaneri> "sth"?
10:20 < safinaskar> is there some channel about linux _KERNEL_ (sic!). I. e. I want some channel strongly related to kernel. For example, I want to ask a question about particular options I should pass to kernel (using boot loader)
10:21 < safinaskar> For example, currently I want to pass some option to kernel to disable VTs. I know I can recompile it without VT support, but I wonder is this possible without recompilation
10:21 < safinaskar> I think this channel is not situable for this because this is channel for general help with Linux OS
10:21 < badsekter> safinaskar: possibly #kernel
10:22 < safinaskar> badsekter: wow, thanks a lot!
10:22 < badsekter> sure thing
10:25 < zzero1> something sth
10:25 < zzero1> based on this I should be getting everything https://superuser.com/a/130449
10:31 < zzero1> The question is how can I get the stderr from pv to a file ?
10:39 < badsekter> zzero1: i think it is something like [command] 2> file
10:41 < zzero1> yes badsekter
10:41 < zzero1> except it creates a file named 2
10:41 < zzero1> the pipe viewer command
10:41 < zzero1> pv
10:42 < zzero1> it seems funny
10:42 < zzero1> but I can't get the stderr from pv
10:42 < zzero1> if anyone has any ideas
10:42 < zzero1> I 'm here
10:42 < badsekter> zzero1: try: pv &> file ?
10:42 < badsekter> zzero1: you should also ask in #bash
10:43 < zzero1> hold on
10:44 < zzero1> badsekter: I get the file its self
10:45 < badsekter> zzero1: what is pv anyway?
10:45 < zzero1> thanks for the suggestion badsekter
10:45 < badsekter> np
10:45 < zzero1> it show a nice progress view
10:45 < zzero1> when you send a file
10:45 < zzero1> or when you grep a really big file
10:46 < badsekter> zzero1: maybe pv doesn't output anything to stderr?
10:46 < badsekter> because 2> should have worked
10:46 < zzero1> well somehow it gives output to the terminal
10:47 < zzero1> that I cant forward to a file
10:47 < badsekter> zzero1: you sure you are using bash as your shell? if it is a different shell it may have different conventions for redirection
10:47 < zzero1> like a catch22
10:47 < zzero1> yup
10:47 < zzero1> its bash
10:48 < badsekter> you should also try #bash ..
10:48 < zzero1> all the other commands that use stdout and stderr work like a charm
10:48 < zzero1> it something the pv
10:48 < no_gravity> I wonder if there a way to use DNS to find you our own IP. Any ideas?
10:48 < zzero1> specific
10:48 < badsekter> zzero1: does pv have an official help channel on here?
10:48 < zzero1> its a command
10:48 < zzero1> as you said maybe bash
10:49 < zzero1> channel can help
10:49 < Bocaneri> zzero1, stop using the ENTER key as punctuation.
10:50 < zzero1> Bocaneri: I can't stop typing like it's an im
10:50 < badsekter> zzero1: https://serverfault.com/questions/350464/is-there-a-way-to-redirect-the-output-of-pv-command-to-a-file
10:50 < zzero1> apologies
10:52 < badsekter> no_gravity: dig +short myip.opendns.com @resolver1.opendns.com
10:52 < Bocaneri> Find another client, then. This isn't an IM channel.
10:53 < no_gravity> badsekter: Yay, that's what I meant!
10:53 < badsekter> no_gravity: cheers :)
10:53 < no_gravity> badsekter: Could that be changed so that the dns server is used that the computer uses anyhow?
10:54 < zzero1> shit I had to use the -f parameter
10:54 < zzero1> I use qwebirc
10:55 < badsekter> no_gravity: the source i am getting this has another example using google DNS, so if you can figure out the pattern here maybe you can use it with your own dns server: dig TXT +short o-o.myaddr.l.google.com @ns1.google.com
10:56 < zzero1> I guess you are really annoyed , polluting the channel
10:56 < zzero1> badsekter: ty
10:56 < badsekter> zzero1: sure thing :)
10:57 < no_gravity> badsekter: Looks like that relies on a special service provided by google.
10:58 < badsekter> no_gravity: yeah and with opendns too, because there seems to be a domain myip.opendns.com
10:58 < no_gravity> badsekter: Yup
11:36 < blip99> hi all.  I upgrade 16.04 to 17.10 (yes it's a valid upgrade path).  I can login via tty, but not graphically.  After entering password and pressing enter, I just get a black screen and return to login manager
11:36 < blip99> Any ideas to try?  Look into login manager error logs?
11:37 < blip99> Already uninstalled nvidia drivers
11:39 < hpotter> blip99: Let us make sure it's about ubuntu.
11:40 < katie_> blip99: When the graphical login manager appears, click the settings cog next to the "Sign In" button and see if there's a separate "Ubuntu on Xorg" option.
11:55 < blip99> hpotter, katie_ ty.  one moment please ill get back to you :)
11:56 < blip99> reseating the hdd cos i get some irq errors spammed on my screen whilst in tty0 login (I think from hdd).  even though i have RW access to /home just fine
12:01 < blip99> katie_, I don't have such login, im on xubuntu (though i think they moved from LightDM to GDM on xubuntu 17.10 - the one im using)
12:01 < blip99> katie_, but I have tried chaning the login session type betwee "XFCE on ubuntu" and "Ubuntu session"
12:02 < blip99> changing*
12:02 < blip99> also tried creating new user, still can't graphical login
12:46 < promach2> how do I find out what happened (I mean debug messages) when my computer hangs suddenly and I need to reboot manually ?
12:46 < djph> /var/log/dmesg.#
12:47 < seven-eleven> if my vm is not coming up can the hypervisor admin somehow back up my data?
12:48 < seven-eleven> kvm switch shows a black console too
12:48 < seven-eleven> i suppose the vm doesnt boot up because i added swap to fstab and it fails to mount it
12:48 < seven-eleven> weird that it doesnt show an fstab mount error in the kvm switch, the kvm switch is just black
12:49 < Sveta> some vps providers allow you to boot in rescue mode and mount your data partition
12:49 < seven-eleven> that'd help me a lot
12:50 < seven-eleven> i created a support ticket, will see if they offer this
12:50 < Sveta> prgmr and linode and scaleway do that
12:50 < Sveta> good luck
12:50 < seven-eleven> im on wishosting, thanks
12:50 < Sveta> bonus points if they let you do it without them manually doing it for you by hand
12:52 < seven-eleven> hmm, there is no rescue mode option in their control interface (openNebulo) but i can apparently attach a disk
12:52 < seven-eleven> yeah, there's "system rescue disk" when i click attach a disk
12:53 < seven-eleven> but i can't create it due to quota
13:00 < phillly> when I am connected to a server using the shell and run a program, I get an output and it exits. this takes me back to the shell prompt. in this case, what happened? does it mean shell forked it?
13:04 < SkunkyFone> phillly: in what case?
13:04 < phillly> well think of "cat" or "echo" or anything really. I run it using the terminal (Bash).
13:04 < phillly> so I was wondering if Bash forks it, gives me the output and exits it
13:07 < Sitri> phillly: clone()/fork() -> exec*() is generally how one runs another program in Linux
13:07 < phillly> that is a little bit too advanced for me to understand at this point.
13:07 < phillly> I just want to understand if what bash does when I run something is also "forking"
13:08 < phillly> because bash is the parent owning the process I think
13:08 < Sitri> clone() is like fork() except it doesn't do as much so it's a bit faster.  exec*() are a series of functions that replace the current running process with another binary, that new binary takes over the PID.
13:08 < phillly> does bash exec*() or fork in that case?
13:08 < Sitri> Bash forks for cat, because it's an external binary, but it doesn't fork for echo because it's a built-in.
13:08 < Sitri> phillly: both.
13:09 < phillly> ah echo is a command of bash but cat is an external binary so it gets forked then?
13:09 < Sitri> Right
13:10 < Sitri> `man 2 execve` for how that works.  `man 2 clone` and `man 2 fork` for those.
13:10 < phillly> ok I will do that
13:11 < Sitri> Alternatively, bash might call popen() instead.  It'd do this if it needs to feed the program input or take the program's output.
13:11 < phillly> quick question in this case. if a process is forked by bash before running, does it mean it gets its own PID or is it owned by bash so if bash were to crash, so is the forked one?
13:12 < Sitri> Bash can't fork a process other than itself.
13:12 < Sabotender> quick question, the correct terminal command to update the system is apt-get update?
13:12 < Sabotender> its been a while since ive done it and I am quite sure there's an update for my system...somewhere
13:12 < Sabotender> maybe its apt-get upgrade
13:13 < Sitri> Or more accurately, a process can only fork itself.
13:15 < Sitri> Fork does a ton of things (see the man page), but in short, it makes it so the program is now running twice.  One process has fork return 0, that one is the child process.  The other process has fork return the PID of the new process, that's the parent process.
13:16 < katie_> Sabotender: apt-get update refreshes the local list of packages with the server, apt-get upgrade actually updates the packages
13:17 < phillly> Sitri: I am on the man pages and it explains it super well. whomever wrote those is a genius. thanks for pointing me at the right direction and giving good explanations
13:28 < Sabotender> yay, the upgrade worked, and it didn't bork anything :-P
13:28 < Sabotender> this makes me happy
13:34 < jikistro_> oh yeah
13:55 < simulant> Dagmar: hi sorry I had to go away for a bit. the problem is i have a massive 1.5tb tar.bz2 file that I need to pull a file from within from (which is a tar.gz file). not sure how to actually extract it out...
13:56 < simulant> Dagmar: if I try and list the contents of the 1.5tb tar it takes forever (like days) and I don't have time to leave it running just to find the file i need. if I try specify the exact filename from guessing what I think it is it just seems to hang for days...
13:57 < simulant> Dagmar: is there a better way to pull the file out or see what it is called?
13:57 < simulant> Dagmar: or a better tool than tar to extract it?
13:57 < Pentode> tar -xf file.tar path/to/file/in/tar.foo
13:57 < Pentode> i think
13:58 < simulant> Pentode: yeah that is what I'm trying. so i did tar -xvf bigtarfile.tar.bz2 /home/user/tarwithinfilenametoextractout.tar.gz
13:58 < simulant> Pentode: but that just hangs and I don't know for sure I have the right filename and that it does exist...
13:59 < Pentode> hmm
13:59 < Pentode> let me try it
13:59 < simulant> Pentode: if I try list the contents of the tar file by directory only with grep it takes days!!!
14:00 < Pentode> yeah i could imagine, lol
14:01 < simulant> Pentode: yeah not sure how to pull that tar.gz file out of the tar.bz2 without knowing exactly which folder it is in...
14:02 < Pentode> we must be doing something wrong
14:02 < Pentode> i get the same results. no output, no file.
14:02 < simulant> Pentode: ah that's good to know at least!!
14:02 < Pentode> however if i specify a file i know is not there, it _does_ say it doesnt exist
14:03 < simulant> Pentode: ah so maybe I have the right name of the file then...
14:03 < rumpel> simulant, how about mounting it?
14:04 < simulant> rumpel: mounting the tar.bz2 file?
14:04 < Pentode> wait, it does work
14:04 < Pentode> silly me, lol.
14:04 < simulant> Pentode: ah what am I doing wrong?
14:04 < rumpel> simulant, seems to work for tar.gz ... maybe also bz2
14:04 < Pentode> not sure, did you omit the first slash?
14:04 < Pentode> it should generate an error though if you didnt...
14:05 < Pentode> i did "tar xf config_backups.tar config_backups/jedrc"
14:05 < Pentode> as a test
14:06 < rumpel> simulant, looks like FUSE could do that
14:06 < simulant> Pentode: ah this is a killer!! I've trid just tar -xf instead of tar -xvf and it just hangs still. I've also tried omitting the first slash and it just hangs...
14:07 < simulant> Pentode: and if I specify a file I KNOW to not exist, again it just hangs!!
14:07 < Pentode> maybe the archive is just _too_ big ;p
14:08 < rumpel> simulant, check ram/swap usage
14:08 < rumpel> simulant, maybe you just need to download more ram :D
14:08 < rascul> oh it's a 1.5TB archive?
14:08 < Pentode> yeah its massive
14:09 < k4r78y> how do i download ram
14:09 < rascul> there's no index, the tar utility literally has to walk through the entire archive to determine if the file you want is in there or not, it can take time
14:09 < simulant> yeah massive, my ram looks ok
14:09 < rascul> tar is not a good format for random access inside the tarball
14:09 < Pentode> nice, lol
14:09 < Pentode> you picked the wrong format simulant ;)
14:10 < rascul> if it seems like it hangs, it's probably just still going through the tarball
14:10 < simulant> Pentode: ah man, I'm using Virtualmain and its backup facility which just tars it all up as default
14:10 < simulant> rascul: is there any way to run the command so I can see what it is actually doing?
14:10 < Pentode> go make some coffee and just let it go on
14:10 < simulant> rascul: or a different tool to unpack it other than tar?
14:10 < Pentode> i'd imagine it should finish in an hour or two if you have a modest machine
14:11 < rascul> afaik you can't really see what it's doing, and any tool will have the same issues working with tarballs because the issue is the archive format itself
14:11 < simulant> Pentode: yeah but I left it for 3 days and nights straight and it is still just hung. so a problem as I don't want to just leave it indefinitely if it never completes!
14:11  * Acheron peekS in *
14:11 < noodlepie> do you know the difference between "cat A B >> C.tar" and "tar cvf C.tar A B"
14:11 < k4r78y> whats the difference
14:12 < noodlepie> nothing
14:12 < k4r78y> one crates C.tar with content A B
14:12 < rascul> on creates a tarball, one just puts files together
14:12 < simulant> ah hang on this gives me an idea??!
14:12 < noodlepie> tar is just concatenate
14:12 < rascul> it's more than that
14:12 < noodlepie> so they do the same thing
14:12 < noodlepie> the magic for tar files is based on extension
14:12 < simulant> is there a way to just list all the directories in the tar that start with a certain name or contain a certain word/prefix?
14:13 < k4r78y> i think this is a good place to use sponge utility from gnutools
14:13 < simulant> is there a way to just list all the directories in the tar that start with a certain name or contain a certain word/prefix?
14:13 < noodlepie> file C.tar will show you that
14:13 < noodlepie> "file C.tar"
14:13 < simulant> ah when I tried to list ALL the directories again it took days
14:13 < rascul> noodlepie you are not making tar files by concatenating the files together
14:14 < simulant> last time I used tar -tvf archivename.tar.bz2 |grep ^d
14:14 < k4r78y> i dont think thats how it works
14:15 < Pentode> tar is not _quite_ that simple.
14:15 < simulant> so instead of listing all directories, I just need a way to list all the ones with a prefix or word at the front. that way hopefully it will just show me what I need to pull out?
14:15 < rumpel> simulant, maybe do that once and use that as search index?
14:15 < noodlepie> I'm knidding, GNU tar actually add headers and boilerplate to tar files
14:16 < noodlepie> so you know "where" each subfile is for example
14:16 < noodlepie> in the tar file
14:16 < rascul> no
14:16 < rascul> that's not how tar works, each file has its own header, there is no index to know "where" each subfile is
14:17 < rascul> each file inside the tarball has a header is what i meant, for clarity
14:17 < Nixola> tar vs cat: https://hastebin.com/ijeretadul.txt
14:17 < noodlepie> you can probably use split to get the files out
14:19 < k4r78y> whoa TIL split command
14:19 < k4r78y> how do i join files after running split on them
14:19 < rascul> cat
14:20 < k4r78y> cat prints the contents of the file right how can that be used to stitch files
14:20 < rascul> cat file_one file_two > file_three
14:21 < k4r78y> well that was easy
14:32 < katie_> k4r78y: for clarification, "cat" is short for conCATenate
14:32 < k4r78y> good to know
14:38 < chomwitt> how can i 'tail -f' a logrotating file ?
14:38 < Triffid_Hunter> chomwitt: tail -F
14:39 < chomwitt> i'll try that . thanks
14:40 < simulant> OK so I'm trying tar -tvf Backup.tar.bz2 'Prefixword&'
14:40 < simulant> in the hope it will find all the files named the right thing
14:40 < simulant> and then I can pull out the one I need
14:41 < simulant> * sorry I mean 'Prefixword*'
14:41 < simulant> does that look right and will list the files that have the word at the front and with * on the end show all files including .tar.gz for example within my big backup archive?
14:45 < nicholasBPM> if I do a sudo apt-get install tor, will I open a relay to Tor for everybody or only my localhost?
14:46 < BluesKaj> Hiyas all
14:47 < neko> nicholasBPM: it depends on how the maintainer did the default config, but for generall no, you connect as client and only your traffic goes through tor, no-one connects to you to relay or even use you as exit node
14:48 < nicholasBPM> neko, thank you bro!
14:49 < jim> nicholasBPM, you'd have to look at the description and the docs of it... generally, if debian installs a -server-, the debian maints have tried to come up with reasonable defaults, and will start that server immediately... that said, I have no idea if the tor package installs any kind of "server daemon"
14:51 < jim> I would think that the debian maints were smart enough to offer you a choice
14:51 < nicholasBPM> jim, thanks for your reply, it installs something on ubuntu, because I can run torsocks python3 my.app with no issues and I can verify it is running over the Tor network..
14:52 < jonan> hey guys, is there a good GUI tool to check for bad blocks in a hard drive?
14:53 < jim> dunno if the badblocks cli program has any kind of gui front end
14:54 < neko> perhabs gparted has an option?
14:54 < jonan> it seems like badblocks is literally writing every block into a file on my HD
14:55 < jonan> for instance i need to check a 4TB hdd
14:55 < jonan> running sudo badblocks -v /dev/sdb > bad-blocks-results quite literally makes a duplicate of "bad-blocks-results" file equal in size to the same HDD block that its checking
14:55 < jonan> so if 100mb has been checked, the file is 100mb etc
14:55 < jonan> i don't know if this is correct
14:56 < jim> jonan, as you may know, gparted is a partitioning tool, and the "g" part indicates it'sa gui front end for the parted program... what neko says is a good possibility (and, you should also look into how to run the cli tool badblocks)
14:57 < revel> I think the "g" is for Gnome, actually.
14:57 < Newfangled> Anyone here have any experience with PureOS?
14:58 < revel> Newfangled: That's a BSD.
14:58 < revel> No, wait, no.
14:58 < revel> I was thinking of TrueOS. nvm
14:58 < jonan> thanks jim, i'll load of gparted and take a look, appreciated guys
14:59 < jim> jonan, you'd have to run it as root, -and- with the display intact... the way I usually do that, is ssh -X localhost and then I can run gparted
15:02 < jim> so TruePureOS is a bsd linux?
15:03 < revel> lol
15:07 < nicholasBPM> Does this mean the system only accepts local connections? tcp        0      0 127.0.0.1:9050          0.0.0.0:*               LISTEN
15:08 < neko> 127.0.0.0/8=local loopback; so yes
15:08 < nicholasBPM> neko, thanks bro!
15:15 < jim> nicholasBPM, so yes, local only... -and-, looks like it is a server program (since it listens at a port of an IP)
15:16 < nicholasBPM> jim, cool! thank you
15:16 < jim> welcome
15:17 < jikistro_> ls
15:19 < nicholasBPM> I have an vps server that I develope stuff on, is there any alternative to smb if i would like to mount my home directory?
15:21 < revel> nicholasBPM: Going by the :9050, it's probably Tor with default settings.
15:21 < bookworm> nicholasBPM: sshfs
15:21 < revel> Err, jim:
15:22 < nicholasBPM> revel, does the default settings relay? I only want to use it locally to get on the Tor network.
15:22 < revel> Relay?
15:22 < nicholasBPM> bookworm, thanks, I will google it!
15:22 < nicholasBPM> revel, my isp do not allow me to run a proxy.
15:22 < bookworm> revel: he doesn't want to run a tor relay, nor an exit node
15:23 < revel> It won't allow people to connect to port 9050 on your IP with SOCKS and use it as if it's a proxy regularly, no, it'll only listen on localhost.
15:23 < revel> bookworm: Did I suggest otherwise?
15:23 < nicholasBPM> revel, thank you!
15:23 < bookworm> revel: > revel Relay?
15:24 < bookworm> the answer to that
15:24 < revel> bookworm: He was the one to say it, I wanted to ask what he meant by that.
15:41 < balance> hi
15:41 < bomb> hi
15:44 < balance> someone gave me root access to a vm to play around. Now I created a new user so I don't have to work as root. I didn't set up much more, tried sshing with the new user, which works, but it only shows me "$" istead of e.g. user@host - the passwd file says bin/bash is used. What did I miss?
15:45 < balance> ah solved it
15:45 < Triffid_Hunter> balance: ~/.bash_profile perhaps? Is this in some distro that doesn't provide /etc/profile.d ?
15:45 < balance> chsh /bin/bash somehow didn't work but just using chsh I could set the default login shell from sh to bash - but isn't that dependend on the passwd file?
15:47 < balance> ah I think I had too many terminals and I'm just an idiot who shouldnt sit at the pc when not sober :p thanks though!
15:47 < balance> Triffid_Hunter: got it solved, thanks :)
15:48 < imofftopic> lol
15:49 < imofftopic> balance drinking and terminal
15:49 < nicholasBPM> I lost connection to my server, and when i try to run myapp i get Another instance of myapp is already running.. is it possible to reconnect to that session?
15:51 < balance> imofftopic: gives me the needed courage
15:53 < collins> penis
15:59 < pnbeast> nicholasBPM, the answer is probably no, but maybe if you explained all the details you've skipped, it would be a little clearer.
16:00 < nicholasBPM> pnbeast, thanks, i will install screen or change reconnect time
16:01 < pnbeast> Um, sure.  What does "connect" mean?  What is "myapp"?  (and why does everyone refer to programs as "apps", now?)
16:03 < nicholasBPM> pnbeast, running an app over ssh but lost connection to my server and when i reconnect i get a new session and the old session is stuck in memory
16:05 < pnbeast> nicholasBPM, then you're almost certainly not going to "reconnect" to it, no.  The old program instance is probably not "stuck in memory".  Depending on various factors, it may be running, or it may have written a now-stale lockfile.
16:05 < pnbeast> These can be cleaned up if you can ssh into the machine again.  Probably.
16:06 < nicholasBPM> pnbeast, I just killed it.. but it would be sweet to reconnect to the lost session
16:06 < mawk> then use tmux
16:06 < pnbeast> nicholasBPM, then, as you mention, you'll want something like screen or VNC.
16:07 < mawk> otherwise if you want the program to keep running even though the ssh session is killed you can disown it
16:08 < pnbeast> mawk, it apparently *did* keep running even the the session dropped.
16:08 < mawk> yeah until the tcp timeout
16:08 < nicholasBPM> mawk, thanks! just googled tmux it looks good.
16:08 < mawk> otherwise if it's a direct quit of the ssh session the program gets killed instantly
16:08 < mawk> like ~.
16:09 < pnbeast> That it not guaranteed to be true.  I don't think that sends sigkill, for example.
16:09 < mawk> ah no, but it notifies sshd of a disconnection
16:09 < mawk> and sshd can send SIGHUP
16:09 < pnbeast> HUP doesn't force things to die.
16:10 < mawk> indeed
16:10 < mawk> it's the thing that may force the program to die here, when the ssh session is closed
16:11 < mawk> the program has no obligation to accept it
16:11 < collins> husband bulge
16:11 < pnbeast> Since he won't describe what his "app" is, I have no more idea.
16:12 < collins> adult entertainment
16:12 < collins> such as bowling and tennis
16:14 < revel> Don't forget golf.
16:16 < mawk> it's the hair-dropping-season for my cat
16:16 < compdoc> I sometimes go for walks
16:19 < collins> i fall asleep
16:19 < collins> :('
16:19 < mawk> take some caffeine
16:19 < mawk> or cocaine
16:21 < barteks2x> I already rebooted, butfor the next time, any idea how to quit "showkey" that runs on tty?
16:22 < mawk> get to another tty and kill it
16:22 < barteks2x> ctrl+alt+Fx didn't work
16:22 < Sitri> ctrl+c?
16:22 < barteks2x> nope
16:22 < Sitri> ctrl+z?
16:22 < barteks2x> ctrl+d also didn't work
16:22 < barteks2x> and ctrl+z didn't work either
16:22 < Sitri> ctrl+d just sends an EOF
16:23 < barteks2x> I tried ctrl+anything, alt+anything, ctrl+alt+anything, presseing random mkeys, rolling my hand over the keyboard etc...
16:23 < Sitri> You might have hit ctrl+s, so hit ctrl+q to undo that
16:23 < barteks2x> in the end I pressed the power button, and <whatever shots things down on shutdown> had to send sigkill in the end
16:23 < rooftopjoe> if i want to put a filename with spaces in a variable and then use the variable later in a command, would this be the appropriate way to do it (i meant seems to work at least)? VAR=file\ name; cat "$VAR"
16:24 < LambdaComplex> is LVM on LUKS on (software) RAID1 an okay idea?
16:24 < barteks2x> ctrl+s does something there?
16:24 < Sitri> rooftopjoe: Yes
16:24 < rooftopjoe> ok, thank you
16:24 < Sitri> barteks2x: yes, it pauses output
16:24 < barteks2x> it did output what keys I pressed
16:24 < barteks2x> whatever I pressed, it would outut that
16:25 < barteks2x> but the system didn't react to ANY keybnpress
16:25 < rooftopjoe> Sitri: can't i somehow put the quotes in the variable so i don't have to type them everywhere i use it, however?
16:25 < mawk> you could have use the sysrq key
16:25 < mawk> maybe
16:25 < barteks2x> IK don't know where sysrq is on my keyboard
16:25 < barteks2x> and I don't thionk it's configured to work o n my system
16:25 < mawk> showkey says that you have to wait 10 seconds and it exits by itself barteks2x
16:25 < barteks2x> because iirc sysrq is disabled by defau;t
16:25 < mawk> did you try that ?
16:25 < mawk> lol
16:26 < barteks2x> I... didn't try just waiting
16:26 < RayTracer> LambdaComplex: yes
16:27 < turkeyhand> arch linux
16:27 < Sitri> rooftopjoe: right
16:27 < turkeyhand> "sorry the printing service doesn't seem to be available!"
16:27 < barteks2x> and how the hell do non-root programs have enough permissions to make the system completely unresponsive?
16:27 < mawk> the program had permissions on the tty
16:27 < Sitri> barteks2x: showkey actually terminates if you don't input anything for 10 seconds
16:27 < mawk> so permissions on the keyboard
16:27 < rooftopjoe> Sitri: how would i go about doing that? what i've tried doesn't seem to work out
16:27 < Sitri> rooftopjoe: ?
16:28 < mawk> it had the permissions you gave it
16:28 < rooftopjoe> Sitri: putting the quotes in the variable
16:28 < turkeyhand> how do I set up printers in arch?
16:28 < turkeyhand> I installed the driver and it's dependencies
16:28 < turkeyhand> and CUPS
16:28 < barteks2x> Sitri, yes but one could easily imagine a program that doesn't terminate after waiting and just completely blocks any interaction using keyboard
16:28 < rooftopjoe> Sitri: so i can just type cat $VAR instead of cat "$VAR"
16:28 < turkeyhand> but the gnome panel for printer settings shows that there are no printers avialable
16:28 < Sitri> barteks2x: yeah, that's fair.  I ended up ssh'ing into my system from another
16:28 < Sitri> rooftopjoe: you can't.
16:29 < LambdaComplex> RayTracer: so i shouldn't be worried about the fact that that's a lot of parts working together?
16:29 < rooftopjoe> ah, i understand
16:29 < barteks2x> and if a program does that and you don't have any network connectivity... you are screwed
16:29 < RayTracer> LambdaComplex: well.. the parts are made so they work together
16:29 < mawk> barteks2x: I'm sure sysrs+R could get you out of this, and sysrq+R is allowed by default on debian
16:29 < mawk> but I don't want to try, I have so much things open
16:30 < barteks2x> which key is sysrq?
16:30 < barteks2x> it's not marked on my keyboard
16:30 < Sitri> It's a key combination
16:30 < mawk> alt+print screen
16:30 < Sitri> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key
16:32 < mawk> the sysrq keys are made for qwerty keyboards, that's discriminatory
16:32 < mawk> sysrq+z is actually sysrq+w on my azerty keyboar
16:32 < Sitri> If only there was listed alternatives for other setups...
16:33 < mawk> lol
16:33 < barteks2x> And I still have no clue why some programs don't register alt+insert...
16:33 < Sitri> barteks2x: X ones?  GTK and Qt eat it.
16:34 < barteks2x> ...
16:34 < barteks2x> I need it to work in intellij idea
16:34 < barteks2x> because it's a default shortcut and I'm very used to it
16:35 < mawk> using KDE you can ask for particular programs to not eat any key combo
16:35 < mawk> but they alt+tab would be inoperant for instance I think
16:35 < barteks2x> I'm on xfce
16:35 < mawk> let me try
16:35 < mawk> ah, too bad
16:36 < barteks2x> why would anything completely take over that ky combination? It doesn't even seem to do anything
16:36 < Sitri> mawk: GTK is hard-coded to take over the clipboard buffer key combinations and make it use the primary buffer instead.
16:36 < Sitri> Qt behaves similarly, but I haven't checked to know for sure
16:36 < barteks2x> I'm pretty sure it used to work
16:37 < barteks2x> unless I remember it wrong and it used to work but on windows
16:37 < mawk> yeah anyone would want that
16:37 < mawk> that secondary buffer thing is too complicated
16:37 < barteks2x> and what the hell does it have to do with alt+insert?
16:37 < mawk> but the combo still works, it just pastes like ctrl+v
16:37 < Sitri> Except their fix just muddies the workflow for those who know how it works
16:37 < mawk> yeah
16:38 < Sitri> barteks2x: That's what alt-insert works on by default, the selection buffer
16:38 < barteks2x> what...?
16:39 < Sitri> X has more than one copy-paste buffer
16:39 < dka> is it possible to use my LDAP account on my LDAP server for my Linux debian localhost account ?
16:39 < LambdaComplex> RayTracer: although...i'm currently on a single 7200 rpm drive. would switching to RAID1 on two 5400 rpm drives result in a noticeable change in read/write speed?
16:39 < expert975> Hello! My friend is blind and I want to help him using the computer. Is Linux the way to go?
16:39 < Sitri> dka: Yes... there are many detailed tutorials on that
16:40 < dka> Sitri, but then what? Do you still need to have local account ? I want to be able to have many computer and everyone use everyone computer
16:40 < barteks2x> Sitri, I still don't get what is the issue with that. What alt+insert even does now?
16:40 < mawk> approximatively the same thing than in windows console ? pasting
16:41 < RayTracer> LambdaComplex: probably.. you basically double the write i/o and do them to 5.4k instead of 7.2k
16:41 < barteks2x> mawk, I've never seen it paste anything
16:41 < mawk> ah no I'm mistaking it with shift+ins, maybe Sitri is too
16:41 < mawk> you're right
16:41 < RayTracer> LambdaComplex: if you care about performance, maybe switch to ssd for what needs performance
16:41 < mawk> shift+ins is paste, ctrl+ins is copy
16:41 < mawk> alt+ins I don't know
16:42 < barteks2x> yes, shift+insert is pasting stuff... I just nevber used it
16:42 < LambdaComplex> RayTracer: not a horrible idea
16:43 < Sitri> dka: You should still have some local account in the event that LDAP fails for whatever reason.  But yes, you can have remote accounts.  But that is not something to walk someone through over IRC.  There are many tutorials about it.
16:43 < dka> Sitri, I am following that one : https://www.server-world.info/en/note?os=Debian_9&p=openldap&f=3
16:44 < barteks2x> so if it's not that, why alt+inser is not working? When I try to set a keyboard shortcut using alt+inser, it doesn't recognize pressing that insert key at all
16:44 < barteks2x> and xev does show that something is pressed, so it's not broken keyboard
16:48 < LambdaComplex> RayTracer: i think i'll just go with the two drives for now, and get an ssd in the future if i decide it's too slow
16:49 < barteks2x> and ctrl+alt+insert definitely does something
16:52 < dka> I am doing `apt-get install ldap-utils` and I get error ` ldap-utils : Depends: libldap-2.4-2 (= 2.4.44+dfsg-5+deb9u1) but 2.4.45+dfsg-1~bpo9+1 is to be installed`
16:53 < dka> I wanted to install ldap for linux but the configuration phase got skipped because I did CTRL+RIGHT and I couldn't go back
16:53 < mawk> did you break your distro ?
16:53 < dka> I tried to remove reinstall but now I got this
16:53 < dka> I think I did
16:53 < mawk> like, changing stuff in /etc/apt/sources.list
16:53 < mawk> then installed random stuff
16:53 < mawk> without pinning the new repository
16:54 < revel> Pinning?
16:54 < collins> boobs
16:54 < mawk> telling apt to not install stuff from it automatically
16:54 < mawk> in /etc/apt/preferences or in a file inside /etc/apt/preferences.d/
16:55 < mawk> dka: to redo the configuration phase you can run dpkg-reconfigure
16:58 < dka> mawk, thanks for telling me this
16:58 < dka> how can I repair libldap broken install?
16:58 < collins> dka: what distribution?
17:01 < collins> and broken how?
17:05 < pnbeast> expert975, see Klaus Knopper's distribution(s).  I think he has a family member who's blind and he puts together programs aimed at supporting Linux use for the blind.  Or has, in the past - I'm not current.
17:07 < toothe> this might be a silly question -- but is there a "mac ping" equivalent?
17:07 < toothe> ie, can I check if a certain mac is on a network?
17:07 < toothe> and is alive/up?
17:08 < toothe> arp-ping, i suppose?
17:08 < Sitri> toothe: ping
17:09 < toothe> well, that assumes you know the IP, no?
17:09 < Sitri> Yeah...
17:09 < Sitri> That's how ping works
17:09 < jim> ok, I finally found an ip that outputs json for the default route... now I need a way to extract json, probably a command you pipe to
17:09 < toothe> so, i said arp ping...something that maybe does a lookup or sends a layer 2 packet
17:09 < toothe> farme*
17:10 < widp> How do I test a cronjob?
17:11 < Sitri> jim: jq
17:11 < pnbeast> widp, wait for it to run?  Is this a trick question?
17:11 < widp> I look at the logs and it is running. It's a python script that uses notify-send, to alert me.
17:11 < widp> but I am not sure it works as intended.
17:11 < widp> So I want to test it.
17:12 < Sitri> toothe: ping ultimately ends up doing that... you can ping the entire network if you really need to discover the IP.
17:12 < widp> is there some way of manually invoking a cronjob?
17:12 < pnbeast> If you can't tell whether your program runs, cronjob or not, why bother running it?  What?
17:12 < toothe> Sitri: there is a tool called arping.
17:12 < Sitri> widp: notify-send needs X right?  You're probably missing some environment variables in the cron environment.
17:12 < widp> I am trying to debug it pnbeast
17:13 < widp> do Sitri, that makes sense.
17:15 < toothe> ohhh, that might not survive a switch.
17:16 < Sitri> toothe: your actual issue is you have a host that you don't know the IP for and you want to know if it is up right?  What /do/ you know about it?
17:17 < toothe> well...i think I'm over-complicating this
17:17 < toothe> mind if I explain what I'm doing?
17:17 < toothe> (wow, my computer was like 6-layers deep into ssh)
17:18 < collins> butt
17:18 < toothe> eh, i'll just explain it.
17:18 < toothe> I turn my computer off in the evenings to save power.
17:19 < jim> Sitri, thanks :) I'll look at it :)
17:19 < Sitri> for i in `seq 254`; do ping -c 1 192.168.1.${i} &>/dev/null; arp -a; done > arp.list.txt; grep -v incomplete arp.list.txt
17:19 < toothe> but, I recently discovered that backing up your personal files is a damn good idea.
17:19 < Sitri> You may or may not have the arp command.
17:19 < toothe> heh, that would probably work!
17:19 < Sitri> Err, add ` | sort -u` at the end
17:20 < toothe> i would prob add the arp -a > list
17:20 < toothe> after every ping - and then at the end do the analysis
17:20 < bls> or just use nmap
17:20 < Sitri> That'd rewrite the file repeatedly
17:20 < toothe> bls: haha! yes.
17:20 < toothe> so, i think that's over-complicating things.
17:20 < toothe> I'm trying to have my computer wake up and do an rsync
17:21 < Sitri> Send a WOL packet to the MAC
17:21 < toothe> right! but my setup is a bit more complicated.
17:22 < Sitri> ?
17:22 < toothe> I have the sync server saying "hey, are you awake? if so, I wanna log that you're awake. Otherwise, i'll log that you're asleep"
17:22 < toothe> it checks via ping.
17:22 < toothe> if its awake, it'll rsync from it and go on its merry way
17:22 < toothe> if its asleep, it'll WOL it, rsync, and then put it back to sleep.
17:22 < Sitri> Why not have the mac do the rsync from its cron and then shutdown when it's done?
17:22 < toothe> exactly.
17:22 < Sitri> Or, instead of shutting down, do the rsync with a shutdown at the end.
17:22 < toothe> but, how do I know whether to shut it down or not?
17:23 < Sitri> ...
17:23 < toothe> I have to know if it was *initially* up.
17:23 < Sitri> You leave it on, and let the script shut it down.
17:23 < toothe> but, how does the script know if its on?
17:23 < toothe> err
17:23 < toothe> if it was *initially* on.
17:23 < toothe> I don't want to shutdown a running PC that I"m using.
17:24 < tds> I guess looking at the uptime would work as a nasty solution, though might trigger false positives
17:24 < Sitri> If a program is running, the computer it is on is turned on.
17:24 < toothe> so, i'd have to manually start a program?
17:24 < Sitri> <Sitri> Or, instead of shutting down, do the rsync with a shutdown at the end.
17:24 < Sitri> You manually shut it down
17:24 < toothe> that defeats the purpose - saving power :)
17:24 < toothe> so...here's my solution.
17:24 < toothe> A) Set a static IP.
17:24 < Sitri> ...
17:25 < toothe> B) Have computer that sends the WOL first do a ping of that static IP.
17:25 < toothe> If its up, great. Log that. Otherwise, log that its down.
17:25 < toothe> C) After the sync is complete, if it was on initially, do nothing. Otherwise, pm-suspend.
17:26 < toothe> does that make sense?
17:26 < barteks2x> so I found that it's xfwm4 eating alt+insert...
17:27 < barteks2x> now I will go complain to #xfce
17:27 < mawk> lol
17:27 < kurahaupo> barteks2x: just remove whatever shortcut it's configured for in xfce4
17:27 < barteks2x> I can't find anything it would be confiugured to
17:28 < kurahaupo> Oh xfwm4 ? Same deal
17:29 < barteks2x> I could test it only because I can still have things runnin g without xfwm
17:38 < jim> ok, I just got jq, and I'm trying to figure out how to get pieces of its input... also, I just compiled the latest stable iproute2 from git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/network/iproute2/iproute2.git, and it looks like they fixed the json output for routes... now I'm trying to get into it... maybe I need to learn json itself... like what's a [] and what's a {}
17:41 < jim> looks like {} is a hash
17:42 < collins> saliva
17:44 < cmj> last time i used it… curl https://code.cdn.mozilla.net/devices/devices.json | jq -r '.phones[3] .name'
17:44 < cmj> you work your way down to the element you want in the array
17:46 < ||JD||> jim: the pairs within the curly braces are object properties
17:46 < ||JD||> square brackets are used to define an array of objects
17:47 < pnbeast> jim, you're fortunate not to be strangling yourself in xml, but why not untie your hands of json?  FREE YOURSELF!
17:48 < prussian> what?
17:48 < prussian> it's about time tools have standardized serialized forms.
17:49 < pnbeast> Fortunately, most "tools" have had de facto standardized forms for years.  Forcing output into something like json so you can fish it back out, later, may make sense sometimes, but not generally.
17:49 < prussian> ya ok
17:49 < prussian> no they haven't.
17:50 < pnbeast> Says none of the sys-admins who've, for decades, gotten by.
17:54 < Psi-Jack> jim [] is an array, {} is a tuple
17:55 < bls> {} is a dict, not a tuple
17:55 < iflema> ()
17:55 < FreeFull> In which programming language?
17:55 < bls> FreeFull: json
17:56 < nicholasBPM> Is it possible for a non root to connect over openvpn, pptp or l2tp? I want to run a python app over vpn not the entire system (sorry for my bad english)
17:56 < FreeFull> I don't think json has tuples
17:56 < bls> nicholasBPM: you can do the latter, but it's going to require root
17:57 < Psi-Jack> Okay, more generic. [] is an array, {} is an object.
17:57 < nicholasBPM> bls, thanks for your reply, i have root access.. or do i need to run l2tp as root?
17:58 < bls> nicholasBPM: yes, you're going to need to be privileged to either manipulate the routing table or create a network namespace
17:59 < nicholasBPM> bls, thanks!
18:00 < bls> nicholasBPM: once that's done, you can work unprivileged, but doing that low level manipulation of the networking stack isn't allowed without it
18:01 < nicholasBPM> bls, would it be possible to setup multiple connections as root to different vpn server and run the app as non root calling the different connections?
18:01 < bls> so read up on either split routing or network namespaces, they'll allow you to isolate applications or access to specific networks
18:02 < Freekid> Hi how can i make it work with ubuntu? https://github.com/nvllsvm/emby-unlocked
18:03 < nicholasBPM> bls, thanks you are awesome! should i do that with l2tp, pptp or openvpn?
18:04 < bls> nicholasBPM: of those three, openvpn is going to be the most secure and straightforward to set up
18:04 < bls> pptp is garbage, and l2tp is pretty complicated to get working
18:05 < Freekid> hi am i discoverable?
18:05 < bls> tinc is another alternative
18:05 < Freekid> can you see my texts?
18:05 < nicholasBPM> bls, cool! I have setup openvpn many times, and i just need to learn about network namespaces?
18:05 < Freekid>  Hi how can i make it work with ubuntu? https://github.com/nvllsvm/emby-unlocked
18:06 < Psi-Jack> Freekid: So you want something you're supposed to pay for, for free, and you want our help to do it?
18:06 < Freekid> No
18:06 < Psi-Jack> Uh huh.
18:06 < Freekid> Im talking about the codes
18:06 < Psi-Jack> Nonsense.
18:07 < Psi-Jack> If you want Emby Premium, pay for it. End of story.
18:07 < bls> nicholasBPM: yes, network namespaces would allow you to create a separate routing table for the VPN, and then execute applications to specifically use it
18:07 < Freekid> I wont sorry lol Psi-Jack
18:07 < bls> everything else would use the default
18:08 < nicholasBPM> bls, thank you. I am off to work now but your have helped med allot. Thanks bro!
18:08 < Freekid> \You sound like one of those rude emby devs
18:08 < bls> cheers
18:08 < pnbeast> :O
18:08 < uplime> its not rude to want money for your work
18:08 < cyphex> ^^
18:08 < Freekid> Not that
18:08 < Armand> Freekid: Do you need help out the door ?
18:08 < Freekid> im talking about the way they talk
18:08 < Freekid> No im okay
18:08 < pnbeast> Freekid, are they rude because you told them you were going to take their service for free?
18:09 < fujisan> how do i use linux to make a million dollars?
18:09 < Psi-Jack> jim: Still handy?
18:09 < Freekid> No
18:09 < Freekid> I had no conversation with the mlol
18:09 < pnbeast> Freekid, are you a "special little snowflake"?
18:09 < Freekid> i was just revising the coversation history with other people
18:10 < han-solo> fujisan: actually, you use linux to save a lot of money :}
18:10 < han-solo> some atleast :}
18:10 < fujisan> oh okay
18:10 < Freekid> ah you Trump supporters always do that pnbeast
18:10 < Psi-Jack> "I want something for free" "no, that's not what I meant." "I had a conversation" "no, I didn't."
18:10 < fujisan> do trump users use linux as well?
18:10 < Freekid> yay
18:10 < revel> "trump users"?
18:10 < bls> pretty sure that phrase has been turned back on its original users
18:10 < Freekid> cause they are poor
18:10 < cyphex> can we keep politics out of here please?
18:10 < Psi-Jack> I smell troll.
18:10 < Armand> Troll confirmed
18:10 < fujisan> who is a troll?
18:11 < Freekid> People stop talking OT stay in the topic
18:11 < oerheks> who wants a dollar .. hey fujisan, long time not seen
18:11 < Freekid> if you want to help say yes otherwise say no case closed
18:11 < Freekid> why ask nonsense question
18:11 < fujisan> oerheks: who are you again?
18:11 < pnbeast> Freekid, go away.
18:12 < mawk> bls: cgroups + policy routing may be easier than network namespaces for split VPN no ?
18:12 < Freekid> go away pnbeast
18:12 < Freekid> you cant say that to me
18:12 < Armand> Freekid, go away.
18:12 < Armand> See.. I can say it too.
18:12 < Freekid> you go away lol Armand
18:12 < Psi-Jack> !ops Freekid Trolling/Piracy/etc
18:12 < Freekid> i also can say it
18:12 < Armand> you cant say that to me
18:13 < Armand> Huuurrr
18:13 < bls> mawk: possibly, just don't have the experience to recommend it one way or the other
18:13 < Freekid> !ops harassing me
18:13 < Freekid> !ops saying me to go away
18:13 < mawk> you need to supply a nickname Freekid
18:13 < cyphex> way to get banned
18:13 < mawk> and you need to stop abusing that command too
18:14 < bls> mawk: if it is, hopefully he'll come across it researching
18:14 < mawk> yeah
18:15 < mawk> it could also be policy routing + system users; like set a mark on the packets using iptables then use that mark in policy routing to select a different routing table
18:15 < mawk> that's the easiest I can think about
18:16 < mawk> cgroups isn't extremely complicated neither, you'd just do cgexec -g net_cls:mycgroups/myothervpn $program
18:16 < mawk> after a bit of setup
18:17 < Psi-Jack> Well, Traefik is an interesting piece of software to do similarly to what haproxy does, but with live changes.
18:17 < bls> I've never used cgroups for networking isolation, and I avoid iptables
18:17 < bls> so have always stuck to what I know to work
18:18 < mawk> iptables usage would just be a minuscule rule in the mangle table to set a mark based on the uid
18:18 < mawk> because policy routing can't match by uid
18:18 < mawk> at least not without some patches
18:19 < fujisan> how do i make 1 dollar with linux?
18:20 < fujisan> can i install it on somebody's pc and ask 1 dollar for that
18:20 < dgurney> I guess so
18:20 < pnbeast> fujisan, are you Freekid?  Tell the truth.
18:21 < fujisan> nope
18:21 < fujisan> just ask oerheks who i am
18:21 < Psi-Jack> No. He's not. :p
18:21 < fujisan> he will burn me at the stake -_- but im not Freekid
18:21 < pnbeast> Hmm, okay.
18:21 < collins> Psi-Jack: pencils
18:21 < Psi-Jack> collins: swords
18:21  * collins bows
18:22 < Freekid>  
18:22 < pnbeast> The smartest thing you've said so far...
18:22 < tds> Psi-Jack: hmm, I'd been looking into running multiple reverse proxies and syncing config between them, that looks rather appealing
18:23 < tds> especially if it'll do ssl passthrough + proxy protocol
18:23 < Freekid>  
18:23 < Freekid>  
18:23 < Freekid>  
18:23 < Freekid> saying smart things
18:23 < Freekid> want more?
18:23 < pnbeast> Yes, please.
18:24 < cyphex> just ignore him and be done with it
18:24 < Psi-Jack> tds: Yep. It can do that.
18:24 < Psi-Jack> tds: I'm using traefik with consul as the K/V backend.
18:24 < tds> yeah, I just saw the HA docs
18:24 < Psi-Jack> HA is in "beta", but the fact they've started on the concept is appealing.
18:25 < tds> my current plan was using sniproxy/haproxy and sticking the config in git or something, so that seems like a nicer solution
18:25 < Psi-Jack> So far, the ONLY thing I cannot seem to do specifically is set/change the Host header itself from frontend->backend.
18:26 < tds> ah, I only use mine as a dumb sni based tcp proxy, so it can't see or modify headers in the first place
18:26 < Psi-Jack> And the ACME/LE stuff I can't figure out, but that's not as important.
18:26 < Psi-Jack> Heh yeah.
18:27 < fujisan> G33kGurl: did you just join the channel?
18:27 < tds> all the backend servers are v6, the proxy is just to let v4 stuff access them
18:27 < fujisan> or am i dreaming again
18:27 < G33kGurl> fujisan: ?
18:27 < tds> and running it on multiple servers and just adding multiple a records should get me some slightly hacky redundancy
18:27 < fujisan> yes thanks G33kGurl for validating my existence -_-
18:28 < fujisan> have a nice day :)
18:28 < jim> a little strange...
18:29 < jim> jml2, so, we still have to talk.
18:30 < Psi-Jack> I did end up reporting that github page Freekid mentioned to both Emby and GitHub for copyright issues.
18:30 < Freekid> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Psi-Jack
18:30 < Freekid> why telling me? Psi-Jack
18:30 < Freekid> do not mension me Psi-Jack
18:31 < Freekid> never  Psi-Jack
18:31 < revel> Freekid: Place him on /ignore or leave then. Preferably the latter.
18:32 < Freekid> Okay revel
18:35 < luke-jr> is there a "binary grep" tool that can tell me the position of data in a file?
18:35 < oerheks> Psi-Jack +1
18:36 < Psi-Jack> grep supports binary, too. man grep
18:36 < fujisan> oerheks: i didn't know you can chat in english
18:36 < fujisan> im surprised
18:37 < luke-jr> Psi-Jack: I don't see a way to get a useful (position in file) answer from grep
18:38 < Psi-Jack> Well, you can get a line number. :)
18:38 < luke-jr> Psi-Jack: binary files don't have lines
18:38 < bls> I'm not aware of a tool, but it should be pretty trivial to hack one together
18:38 < Psi-Jack> Sure they do.
18:39 < luke-jr> to be more specific, I have a ~130 GB SD card image I need to find an audio file in that LineageOS conveniently neglected to save in a file..
18:39 < Psi-Jack> What are you /really/ trying to do?
18:39 < luke-jr> get the audio file
18:40 < bls> a file that's not a file?
18:40 < luke-jr> yes
18:40  * bls confuse
18:40 < bls> if it didn't save it, where do you expect it to be?
18:41 < Psi-Jack> So, loop mount the image, find the file?
18:41 < luke-jr> I expect the data was written to the disk image somewhere
18:41 < bls> yeah, no need pick through raw binary, just mount the image and run find
18:42 < luke-jr> there's no filename associated with it, or I'd be done already
18:42 < Psi-Jack> So, you want a file... that's not a file.... and you want this now? Do you understand how ludicrous this sounds?
18:42 < bls> so it's a file but not a file that was saved but not saved
18:43 < notmike> Um, no
18:43 < bls> maybe try photorec if you really mean it was saved and then deleted
18:43 < luke-jr> Psi-Jack: it's a pretty normal data recovery concept
18:44 < pnbeast> It's *nix, so everything is a file.  The song is clearly in /dev/null someplace.
18:44 < Psi-Jack> No... No it is not.
18:44 < luke-jr> bls: photorec does audio?
18:44 < notmike> Nothing is in /dev/null
18:44 < pnbeast> luke-jr, note that grepping through all of /dev/null can take many, many years.  Decades even.
18:44 < Freekid> hah got the docker image running hehe  bye
18:44 < bls> luke-jr: it'll recover anything it can
18:44 < notmike> Later loser
18:45 < notmike> You can grep /dev/null?
18:45 < pnbeast> notmike, maybe you can.
18:45 < notmike> You should try and report back with your findings.
18:45 < jim> notmike, hi, please relax
18:46 < pnbeast> jim, notmike does not currently seem to be an issue, here.  Freekid was.
18:46 < jim> yes, understood
18:47 < bls> pnbeast: give it time
18:47 < jim> just now I was in and out of the channel, matters of seconds in and seconds out
18:47 < ayecee> a little of the old in out
18:48 < p0a> Hello how can I search for a specific word in a directory, in names & files ?
18:48 < p0a> in filenames and file content
18:48 < bls> p0a: find for name, grep for content
18:48 < luke-jr> bls: thanks
18:48 < jim> freekid wasn't here when notmike said "later loser"... having said that, notmike, please don't do namecalling ('loser')
18:48 < p0a> bls: ah thank you
18:49 < notmike> jim: I was definitely referring to freekid. But ok
18:49 < bls> p0a: https://mywiki.wooledge.org/UsingFind
18:49 < jim> thanks
18:50 < jim> I haven't even looked yet, but I pretty much know freekid was being a problem, and likely in several ways
18:50 < p0a> what we need for the irc clients is a venting extension that lets you type stuff but doesn't actually send it
18:51 < djph> p0a: they have that.  It's called "vim"
18:51 < bls> p0a: that or for people to not use technical support channels to air their mental/emotional problems
18:51 < p0a> ? that's a text editor, lol
18:52 < jim> but he's gone and I didn't get a chance to talk to him. so, let's all just take a breath and relax
18:52 < p0a> what I'm trying to do is remove certain features from firefox
18:52 < p0a> so I'm trying to grep for the filenames that have the features and modify the source code
18:53  * p0a now wonders if that is in breach of the licence
18:53 < bls> only if it's iceweasel :P
18:53 < zerowaitstate> p0a: are you redistributing your changes?
18:53 < p0a> nope
18:53 < p0a> (to bth)
18:54 < luke-jr> as a general rule, if you don't distribute your changes, open source places zero restrictions on you
18:55 < p0a> right that was silly of me
19:03 < p0a> thanks everyone!
19:03 < tds> Psi-Jack: oh, only just realised that traefik only supports proxy protocol on incoming ssl connections from another reverse proxy, and doesn't do plain ssl passthrough at all as far as I can see :(
19:04 < Psi-Jack> Hmmmm
19:04 < Psi-Jack> tds: You might find fabio to be a good alternative, then? Maybe. I forget whether or not it supports proxy protocol.
19:05 < Psi-Jack> I was just speaking with traefik devs about why I can't change the Host header from frontend->backend, and it seems to be specifically filtering that out, which to me is a little WTF?
19:06 < tds> Psi-Jack: hmm, doesn't look like fabio has proxy protocol support, but that's not essential - thanks for suggesting it :)
19:07 < Psi-Jack> Yep yep.
19:07 < Psi-Jack> fabio's smaller development (one person), while Traefik is a bigger beast.
19:08 < tds> ah, at the moment I'm using sniproxy, which I think it also a little one person project
19:08 < luke-jr> bah, photorec found stuff, but nothing like my recording. *grumbles at LineageOS for losing it*
19:09  * luke-jr wonders if he should just assume worst case scenario and change all his passwords
19:11 < notmike> If you have to ask...
19:13 < nekOwO> Could anyone recommend me a good, minimal general purpose media player?
19:13 < nekOwO> Like VLC
19:13 < nekOwO> but with less bloat
19:13 < Psi-Jack> mpv
19:14 < triceratux> parole
19:18 < nekOwO> Thanks, Parole seems to be what I was looking for
19:18 < _zach> This is a pretty general question... but... why does my network transfers over a 1gbps LAN always transfer in burts? It's never a solid 120MB/s, it's like 120MB, 20MB, 120MB, 20MB, 120MB, 20MB, so on.
19:19 < collins> ostriches
19:19 < Dagmar> General inefficiency
19:19 < luke-jr> _zach: sounds like your system(s) are either waiting for ACKs, or bottlenecked on I/O or CPU
19:19 < collins> Dagmar: you sound like a character from some fantasy movie or game
19:19 < phinxy> _zach• I had that happening when the filesystem was a NFS-share.  First it would download a burst to RAM, then transfer it over to the NAS.
19:19 < collins> Dagmar: you should repeat the same dialog over and over again
19:20 < Psi-Jack> nekOwO: Food for thought. mpv's developer was hired by Plex, and utilized mpv in PlexMediaPlayer. mpv can also do some fun things like virtualized surround sound in headsets. :)
19:20 < Dagmar> _zach: Use something like bonnie++ to benchmark the disks.  You'll probably find they're not capable of keeping the network saturated
19:20 < nekOwO> wew
19:21 < _zach> Thanks all for your answers.
19:24 < collins> eggs
19:25 < compdoc> yes, two please
19:30 < batteronizer> The gcc installed on my system is gcc-7 but somehow the evironment variable CC is set to gcc-4.9
19:30 < batteronizer> I couldn't find it in my bashrc, bash_aliases or profile
19:30 < batteronizer> Where else could I look to find it?
19:31 < kope> does any one have ninja binary cracked ?
19:31 < jim> ninja binary crack is a new form of cocaine?
19:32 < uplime> its like drugs for your computer
19:34 < phinxy> How are you supposed to eat pork cracklings?
19:34 < phinxy> Just like that, as a snack?
19:34 < collins> cars
19:34 < jikistro> d
19:34 < collins> jim, stop chasing cars
19:34 < collins> you're not a dog
19:35 < jim> who's cars?
19:35 < Oddity> you i s cars
19:35 < meta-434> yikes, dd is slow. how do i speed it up?
19:35 < Psi-Jack> Get faster media.
19:35 < collins> uplime is literally a tractor that goes under the name cars
19:35 < meta-434> i think the media is fine, crucial m4 ssd
19:35 < jim> meta-434, get it to read more sectors at a time?
19:36 < uplime> collins: you've got me pegged
19:37 < jim> meta-434, could you show the dd command line you're using?
19:38 < meta-434> jim, I did dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=4M status=progress
19:38 < SunnyLeone> say hi
19:38 < jim> hi
19:38 < SunnyLeone> i am new here boys and girls
19:38 < SunnyLeone> hello jim
19:38 < jim> welcome
19:39 < SunnyLeone> thank you
19:39 < meta-434> it's going at at 900kB/s
19:39 < jim> (that was backwareds!)
19:40 < jim> meta-434, looks like you already did have it process bigger chunks
19:40 < meta-434> would me running it on chromebook hardware be a reason for the slowness?
19:40 < jim> no idea
19:41 < uberwag> is there any guideline (a recent one) for creating a custom bootable iso? i like to create a live cd with centos 7 minimal and xfce and few apps - where do i start?
19:41 < pnbeast> meta-434, I doubt "dd" is slow, maybe writing to your drive is slow.  But why bother zeroing a disk?  It's probably unnecessary.
19:41 < jim> uberwag, well in order to have an iso be bootable, I think you need to give it a boot loader
19:42 < dgurney> yeah, zeroing is worthwhile only if you are getting rid of the storage device completely, in all other cases a normal reformat should be enough
19:43 < uberwag> jim: yes i get that, but i need some help with how to actually plan and build a custom one
19:44 < zebmccorkle> even if you are getting rid of the device, most SSDs have a secure erase function that deletes the encryption key
19:44 < uberwag> like with windows i can do something like a sysprep, i don't know how to do this with linux, i create a system in vmware and then can somehow create a live iso from it?
19:44 < jim> uberwag, what is it you want to boot?
19:44 < uberwag> a custom minimal centos 7 with xfce and only a few apps
19:44 < meta-434> pnbeast, i'm extremely new to drives in general but from my troubleshooting, trying to format it failed because of zero-sized partition errors?
19:45 < pnbeast> meta-434, I see.  I suspect, but don't know, that zeroing the first little bit of the disk should be sufficient.
19:46 < pnbeast> I.e., "dd if=/dev/zero ...  bs=2048 count=1"
19:46 < collins> trains
19:47 < meta-434> pnbeast, I tried to restore from a superblock backup after I had wiped the first GB but that didn't work either so I went for the nuclear option.
19:48 < pnbeast> meta-434, I see.  Then I don't know.  Maybe someone else will chime in - sorry.
19:49 < meta-434> pnbeast, thanks for your help. i am unfortunately too new at any of this to do anything but follow steps people post online and 5-6 hours of that yesterday afternoon got me no closer to making this drive useable.
19:49 < indigoblue> Is anyone here using socket.io in production?
19:50 < pnbeast> meta-434, I see.  So, your goal is to install Linux, of some sort?
19:52 < meta-434> pnbeast, no- I'm trying to wipe and reformat an external drive. i just happen to be using linux, that's all.
19:52 < notmike> One does not just happen to use Linux.
19:53 < meta-434> believe it or not i just "dabble"
19:53 < domhnall> sure, for rescue disk
19:53 < meta-434> and liked the idea of running linux on a chromebook
19:53 < Psi-Jack> meta-434: So. You have an external HDD you're trying to... What?
19:53 < Psi-Jack> What's the end goal here?
19:54 < s10gopal> \
19:54 < meta-434> end goal? transfer files to and from this external hard drive.
19:54 < longxia> batteronizer: have a look at man update-alternatives. Your CC is determined by symbolic links.
19:54 < Psi-Jack> Okay. What's the problem causing this goal to be unachievable?
19:54 < dgurney> well, of course you like running Linux on Chromebooks, after all Chrome OS is just a special distro :P
19:56 < pnbeast> meta-434, I'd be tempted to glance at dmesg or your syslog and see if there are errors related to that disk.
19:57 < jim> meta-434, oh, files? you may wish to use a file copyer instead... remember that when you image a hard drive, you copy its free space too
19:58 < meta-434> pnbeast, "Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 8831573, lost async page write"
19:58 < nekOwO> Breaking news: GNOME decides to remove even more features!
19:58 < nekOwO> https://news.softpedia.com/news/gnome-devs-to-remove-the-ability-to-launch-apps-from-the-nautilus-file-manager-521137.shtml
19:58 < collins> good
19:58 < batteronizer> longxia: thanks, on querying through update-alternatives I found that cc is just a link, eventually to gcc-7 installed on my system
19:58 < batteronizer> But `echo $CC` still gives me gcc-4.9
19:58 < collins> nekOwO: finally, didn't even know it ran stuff from the file manager, that's just lunatic.
19:59 < Psi-Jack> meta-434: So, communication or hardware problems.
19:59 < nekOwO> collins: I do agree this change is probably a positive
19:59 < collins> nekOwO: leave such features to trigger happy kids that loves LEDs on their 300$ chassi
19:59 < nekOwO> But GNOME devs sure love removing features
20:00 < jim> plus, there'
20:00 < collins> one thing that I think should be change with linux overall (and windows especially) is that everything should run sandboxed by default unless you run it in some kind of "system mode"
20:00 < jim> is a chance that the block error is on one of the free blocks
20:00 < nekOwO> I don't really see why anyone would still use GNOME
20:00 < nekOwO> I can think of no upsides
20:01 < nekOwO> Its main "Feature" is the fullscreen app menu
20:01 < nekOwO> And that's just more inefficient than using a standard one
20:01 < nekOwO> Or a pipe menu
20:01 < SuperSeriousCat> Why do you care? Let the GNOME users do as they want
20:02 < nekOwO> It just seems harmful in every way I think of it
20:02 < meta-434> Psi-Jack, maybe- smartctl -a makes me think it's not a hardware issue? Though again i'm not knowledgeable about this.
20:02 < domhnall> hm, stange, I changed the icon on an executable, not it doesnt run.
20:02 < nekOwO> But if it works for you then I don't really care
20:03 < SuperSeriousCat> I dont use it. I just dont see the reason to bash on those who do
20:04 < nekOwO> I don't bash on the people themselves
20:04 < SunnyLeone> da
20:04 < SunnyLeone> :))
20:04 < stefmorino> forking anyone?
20:04 < Psi-Jack> meta-434: Can you paste the contents of "smartctl -a /dev/<device>" and a clip of the dmesg output relevant to the <device> as well?  For a pastebin site, see /topic, or anything but pastebin.com
20:04 < nekOwO> But every time I see an article about GNOME removing yet another feature it just urks me
20:04 < Pentode> i don't think he's bashing.. more like an opinion. but then again this is 2018. :|
20:04 < revel> stefmorino: I prefer spooning.
20:04 < stefmorino> how do I delete other people's IRC messages
20:05 < domhnall> stefmorino: '/ignore'?
20:05 < stefmorino> It's a joke
20:05 < nekOwO> tbh we need to fork glibc to be using the GTK framework
20:05 < nekOwO> for standardization :-)
20:06 < stefmorino> I'm not involved in the gnome ecosystem, so I really don't care all that much; the changes do seem completely thoughtless though
20:06 < nekOwO> stefmorino: that's what I'm saying
20:06 < nekOwO> GNOME devs are almost as lazy as the Arch devs
20:07 < stefmorino> As long as I have my gentoo and my tiling window manager I'm happy
20:07 < nekOwO> Ah yes, tiling window managers
20:07 < nekOwO> Wish I could like them
20:08 < stefmorino> What's not to like?
20:08 < nekOwO> I dislike having to remember all the commands
20:08 < meta-434> Psi-Jack, https://pastebin.com/fjjy7kxh
20:08 < nekOwO> I'm a terminal kind of guy. I already have to remember tons of shit
20:09 < Psi-Jack> Ugh, I said NOT pastebin.com. pastebin.com is frowned upon due to many issues they themselves have caused. Pastes being reformatted, malvertising, adblock blocking, being blocked due to many reasons. See /topic for the channel's official pastebin.
20:09 < meta-434> oop
20:09 < meta-434> my bad
20:09 < domhnall> meta-434: try dpaste or something.
20:09 < AnonAperture_> Hey o/
20:09 < nekOwO> I want to try out StumpWM
20:10 < stefmorino> I never keep default bindings for the most part, so I have to learn everything anyways; herbstluftwm was fairly easy to learn and has kept me on it far longer than i3wm or stumpwm has /shill
20:10 < AnonAperture_> Can I ask questions about issues that I'm having here?
20:10 < Psi-Jack> AnonAperture_: If it's linux related, sure.
20:10 < meta-434> Psi-Jack, http://dpaste.com/3AT99KZ
20:10 < nekOwO> Does herbstluftwm come with its own statusbar?
20:10 < stefmorino> nekOwO what's this: yes, it does
20:11 < fsk2_> Client: HexChat 2.14.1 • OS: Ubuntu "bionic" 18.04 • CPU: AMD E-450 APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics (1.56GHz) • Memory: Physical: 3.4 GiB Total (1.6 GiB Free) Swap: 3.5 GiB Total (3.5 GiB Free) • Storage: 35.5 GB / 245.1 GB (209.6 GB Free) • VGA: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Wrestler [Radeon HD 6320] @ Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 12h/14h Processor Function 5 •
20:11 < fsk2_>  Uptime: 33m 14s
20:11 < nekOwO> stefmorino: UwU *notices your helpful reply*
20:11 < revel> fsk2_: Gee, thanks for letting us know.
20:11 < nekOwO> holy shit that quit message
20:11 < fsk2_> oh that's what that does, sorry
20:11 < nekOwO> lol
20:12 < AnonAperture_> So I screwed something up when resizing partitions in (X)Ubuntu, and now when I boot my laptop I get dropped into an initramfs prompt. I'm currently running HexChat on an Ubuntu live disc, so it's the same machine.
20:12 < AnonAperture_> Any thoughts on what I should do?
20:12 < stefmorino> StumpWM is my second longest used window manager next to herbstluftwm; I consider herbstluft better in every way
20:12 < dgurney> fsk2_, what else did you think /sysinfo would do :P
20:12 < Pentode> whatever you do, don't push the red button... *push*
20:12 < Psi-Jack> meta-434: Write_Error_Rate        0x000e   100   100   001    Old_age   Always       -       2566
20:12 < Psi-Jack> That's not good.
20:12 < nekOwO> Whats so good about herbstluft?
20:12 < dgurney> if you run it in the server tab, then it just echoes the info locally
20:13 < Psi-Jack> meta-434: [44329.610198] sd 1:0:0:0: [sdb] tag#0 Add. Sense: Unrecovered read error
20:13 < fsk2_> I wasn't sure I thought it would just display for me not tell the group
20:13 < Psi-Jack> That confirms a hardware problem.
20:13 < nekOwO> I see that it's very minimal
20:14 < meta-434> Psi-Jack: heartbreaking. thanks for your time.
20:15 < Psi-Jack> meta-434: Yeah. I'd say that disk is dying. Being it's Crucial, I'm leaning towards that more because Crucial SSD tends to die quickly.
20:15 < nekOwO> I choose fvwm because it's 1. Easy to use and configure and 2. Built by amazing programmers
20:15 < nekOwO> Both the creator of rxvt and tmux develop fvwm
20:15 < aBound> Woohoo.
20:15 < nekOwO> creator(s)*
20:15 < meta-434> Psi-Jack: good thing I got it for free, but still disappointing.
20:15 < Psi-Jack> Yep yep.
20:16 < aBound> Free stuff.
20:16 < nekOwO> Free stuff is good
20:16 < nekOwO> Sometimes at least
20:16 < stefmorino> nekOwO: it's somewhat similar to StumpWM but with far more sane defaults. herbstluftwm and stumpwm both have a "framing" method of tiling, in which you first set up frames and then spawn windows inside those frames; however herbstluft takes this one step further and isolates spawned windows inside of frames in a scheme of your choosing. It's also one of the lightest weight window managers (200-300KB or so,
20:16 < aBound> As long as it's a quality product.
20:16 < stefmorino> stumpwm is 30MB by comparison), and has a stacking/floating mode which is something stumpwm lacks
20:17 < meta-434> clearly that wasn't
20:17 < stefmorino> also I like the config of herbstluftwm a lot more
20:17 < longxia> batteronizer: strange, i would imagine the alternatives system was designed for this and is apparantly utilized by gcc. However, bypassing this and linking /usr/bin/gcc -> /usr/bin/gcc-<version> does the trich for me in make.
20:18 < nekOwO> We'll see. If I manage to get things like battery display working I'll try it out for a day
20:18 < stefmorino> stumpwm has a builtin dmenu or rofi style application launcher, but I'd honestly use dmenu or rofi over the one it comes with anyways
20:19 < stefmorino> stumpwm is also substantially more buggy I've found in my time using it, I've run into no bugs when it comes to herbstluftwm, and I've been using it longer
20:20 < aeSee5eiqu> hi fellas! i've this little problem with firewalld on my archlinux box i need some help with.
20:25 < nekUwU> does anybody here use a floating wm?
20:28 < stefmorino> anyone who uses a DE without swapping the WM for a tiling one is using a floating wm
20:28 < stefmorino> all DE's have a WM, but not all WM's have a DE
20:29 < nekUwU> you know what i mean
20:29 < nekUwU> lol
20:29 < stefmorino> Probably, all that really comes to mind is OpenBox because that's the popular one
20:30 < nekUwU> I remember icewm being popular for a while
20:30 < longxia> batteronizer: are you using debian, or ubuntu?
20:30 < nekUwU> And i think fluxbox still is
20:30 < batteronizer> longxia: ubuntu
20:32 < longxia> batteronizer: so am i. I read in a forum that debian maintainers do not think different versions of the same program should count as alternatives. Gcc and LLVM are alternatives in that view, gcc-5 and gcc-7 not. Which would explain why update-alternatives does not work.
20:33 < steamport> hey
20:33 < steamport> wou
20:33 < steamport> would it be possible
20:33 < quul> maybe
20:33 < batteronizer> longxia: Ah I see, so should I just set CC on a per user basis?
20:33 < steamport> to stitch the android ram console driver
20:33 < steamport> into mainline linux
20:33 < steamport> i need it
20:33 < steamport> i need it for
20:33 < steamport> for
20:33 < steamport> debugging
20:33 < steamport> why did i start this project
20:33 < steamport> it only results in depression
20:33 < longxia> batteronizer: However, you showed $CC so a shell variable, not the $(CC) make syntax. Is CC set in your .bash_profile or something? Mine is unset on vanilla ubuntu 16.04.
20:34 < batteronizer> steamport: you don't need to send send so many messages. use single messages as far as possible.
20:34 < steamport> i just feel like crap  ok leave me alone leave me alone
20:35 < batteronizer> longxia: bash_profile is the one I didn't check. lemme see
20:35 < longxia> batteronizer: when i set CC and export it in my shell, it does override the CC in make context. Unsetting it makes make follow the symlink in /usr/bin
20:36 < batteronizer> longxia: nope don't have bash_profile and it isn't set in bashrc etc. Also, I don't even seem to have the gcc-4.9 binary anywhere
20:37 < longxia> batteronizer: try unset CC and then call make with a target set to $(CC) --version
20:39 < longxia> batteronizer: also, did you check *all* the possible files that are treated as profiles by bash? There quite a lot.
20:39 < batteronizer> longxia: I checked bashrc, bash_aliases and profile
20:39 < batteronizer> and bash_profile
20:40 < maxtothemax> is there a way to tell the kernel that my swap disk is way faster than my other disks and it's OK to put cached pages there? or will they always be evicted back to their original disk no matter what?
20:41 < steamport> would it be possible to stitch the amazon persistent ram / ram console into mainline linux
20:41 < steamport> android*
20:41 < longxia> batteronizer: also /etc/profile, /etc/bash.bashrc, if present? Or maybe the CC gets sourced indirectly?
20:41 < Bunk> hi
20:41 < revel> steamport: Possible? Sure. Simple? Maybe not.
20:42 < Bunk> What about this pip installer ? How can i see which packages are installed ... and where ?
20:43 < saderror256> what is the most common font that a linux distro uses?
20:44 < saderror256> im writing a program in pygame that needs a particulur font
20:45 < esselfe> saderror256: one that is monospace and that distinguish 0O1Il| easily
20:45 < maxtothemax> do you need it to be the exact same font every time, for instance for spacing reasons? or is it ok to sort of pick one
20:46 < saderror256> exact font same every time
20:46 < maxtothemax> you _can_ just find a royalty free font with a license that allows commercial redistribution, and include the ttf file with your game
20:46 < maxtothemax> that's what most games do
20:48 < notmike> Do you guys say data or data?
20:48 < triceratux> yes
20:48 < quul> agreed
20:48 < maxtothemax> I use the "a" sound from "radical," not from "ape"
20:49 < maxtothemax> or do I do it the other way around? now I'm questioning
20:49 < Psi-Jack> both, simultaneously.
20:49 < nekUwU> I say it like "day-ta"
20:49 < nekUwU> Am I weird
20:50 < dgurney> no
20:50 < quul> so how bout those procps-ng vulns !
20:50 < Psi-Jack> Whatsa "vulns"? :p
20:50 < quul> http://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2018/05/17/1
20:50 < Psi-Jack> So, vulnerabilities.
20:52 < nekUwU> Fun fact: /proc/cpuinfo shows architecture bugs
20:52 < nekUwU> Such as spectre
20:52 < Psi-Jack> Not really.
20:52 < nekUwU> https://i.imgur.com/uRqvgdu.jpg
20:52 < dgurney> maybe not fun, but mildly interesting
20:53 < Psi-Jack> It shows certain CPU features, sure. But whether or not those are patched by microcode or not, it does not show.
20:53 < nekUwU> Psi-Jack: https://i.imgur.com/uRqvgdu.jpg ?
20:53 < dgurney> nekUwU, that just shows the bugs are there, not whether they are fixed or not
20:54 < nekUwU> dgurney: Yeah, I know
20:54 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm.
20:54 < Psi-Jack> As I said. :)
20:55 < cmptr> Yesterday both of my screens were working fine.  My main one which is 2560x1440p@165Hz and my secondary 3840x2160p@60Hz, they were both working fine and set at those refresh rates.  I've got KDE from Debian Buster/Testing.  nvidia driver package.  GTX 1080Ti.  I've tried setting the refresh rate in both kscreen and nvidia control panel.  GSync is on and red LED indication is on as well.  Occasionally when I
20:56 < fujisan> cpu meltdown danger wil robinson danger
20:56 < cmptr> boot my machine up, the taskbar will be on the wrong screen, and sometimes the wallpaper on my secondary monitor will go back to the default even though I've get them both set to Black.  I've tried moving all related rc files from .config which just results in the default desktop layout.  Another issue is that sometimes my icons wont show.  Any ideas?
20:56 < fujisan> nekUwU
20:56 < nekUwU> What DE
20:56 < nekUwU> KDE?
20:56 < nekUwU> fujisan
20:57 < fujisan>  mac os x
20:57 < nekUwU> Sorry fujisan I was talking to cmptr
20:57 < maxtothemax> cmptr: and I assume you didn't change anything? ™
20:57 < cmptr> Oh, yes kde nekUwU.
20:58 < pnbeast> cmptr, send me the monitors and I will test them for you.  I like to help.
20:58 < cmptr> maxtothemax: I literally didn't change anything.  The previous night I was coding.  Woke up, closed all the windows, reboot to start up windows to play a game.  Woke up today, booted into Linux then this happened.
20:58 < nekUwU> Are you really using Debian Sid?
20:59 < fujisan> nekUwU: dont be sorry nekUwU
20:59 < cmptr> nekUwU: No not sid, sid is experimental.
20:59 < nekUwU> :-)
20:59 < fujisan> thanks for the highlight it made my day
20:59 < nekUwU> cmptr: Oh good
20:59 < cmptr> I'm using Testing.
20:59 < cmptr> And sure I'll send you both monitors to test out, just give me $2500 first..
21:00 < pnbeast> :(
21:00 < maxtothemax> have you tried running a 3D game to make sure everything is generally sane with your display drivers?
21:00 < maxtothemax> even if you're not hitting the refresh rate you want
21:00 < cmptr> I don't game on Linux.
21:00 < cmptr> I believe I can get the refresh rate to goto 100Hz.
21:01 < cmptr> I get an error when trying to set the refresh in the nvidida control panel though.  Let me look at it real quick.
21:01 < maxtothemax> so, the desktop background and taskbar issue are interesting too. maybe something changed with your WM/compositor settings
21:02 < cmptr> Okay so now I don't even get an error, it just attempts to change.  As for the background and taskbar issues, I even had problems with that using Stretch with an AMD card.
21:03 < cmptr> I can get 85Hz..
21:04 < steamport> Uhhh
21:04 < steamport> I got android ram console to compile on mainline linux
21:04 < steamport> the main problem was proc_create
21:04 < maxtothemax> in your situation I'd be tempted to install openbox and switch to that real quick, then see if you can hit your refresh rate target. even if you don't want to use it permanently, it could rule out problems with KDE
21:05 < cmptr> It's no doubt in my mind that it is something wrong with KDE.  Lol.  Because it will eventually just start working again within a week or two of neglecting Linux..
21:06 < maxtothemax> also try reseating your monitor cables, sometimes things get jiggled and a weak signal will cause it to fail to work in higher bandwidth modes. it's a long shot but it costs $0 to try that :0
21:06 < maxtothemax> :) *
21:07 < cmptr> Speaking of bandiwth, I did notice that the UHD monitor is showing 4 lanes, and the other is showing 2 lanes which does make sence, but then again doesn't because of the refresh rate.  But I'll give that a go.
21:08 < nekUwU> cmptr: KDE Plasma is still buggy
21:08 < stefmorino> I'm on an UHD monitor here, no issues here
21:08 < nekUwU> Its gotten better
21:08 < nekUwU> But it's still buggy
21:09 < CrazyTux> how to view and download videos on the internet, on youtube with only free softwares?
21:10 < maxtothemax> CrazyTux: I use youtube-dl to download them
21:10 < maxtothemax> you can also use mpv, which has youtube-dl integration
21:10 < CrazyTux> what are some non free softwares that are against free software philosophy
21:10 < cmptr> nekUwU: It has always been.  Lol.  stefmorino The UHD screen works fine.  No problems with refresh rate or anything..  THough I am curious as to when my PG27UQ comes in..  (UHD@144Hz with HDR)
21:10 < maxtothemax> WideVine
21:10 < cmptr> Might have to wait for the  other 1080Ti to come in as well to use that screenn...
21:10 < revel> maxtothemax: Widevine? Isn't that some proprietary plugin of some kind?
21:11 < maxtothemax> yeah, it's an in-browser video DRM component
21:11 < revel> I don't have it and YouTube works fine without it.
21:11 < maxtothemax> yeah, youtube doesn't rely on it
21:11 < revel> I think it's only needed for Netflix.
21:11 < CrazyTux> btw, which distro does Richard Stallman use?
21:12 < nekUwU> trisquel
21:12 < maxtothemax> if you purchase movies & tv on youtube you might need it
21:12 < revel> Maybe.
21:12 < nekUwU> Not sure which DE/WM though
21:12 < revel> nekUwU: Emacs :D
21:12 < maxtothemax> if he were to use one, he'd probably use gnome since that has history as a gnu project
21:12 < CrazyTux> how can we view and download flash videos on the net with just free softwares.
21:13 < nekUwU> he probably doesn't
21:13 < pnbeast> Who's this "we", CrazyTux?
21:13 < revel> I mean... Flash is dying. But, depending on what you mean, youtube-dl works on a wide variety of services.
21:13 < cmptr> Sorry for the language here but..  You have got to be fucking kidding me..  maxtothemax.. It worked..  Pulling out the cable and putting it back in actually worked..  (When you think about it, pulling out and putting it back in works with a few other things in life too.  xD)
21:13 < stefmorino> CrazyTux: I remember a long time back he used ututo, which was gentoo based https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ututo
21:13 < maxtothemax> are you talking about flash animations? or actual videos that use flash-based players
21:13 < nekUwU> flash is dead
21:13 < revel> Some websites use Flash clients and youtube-dl still fetches the content fine.
21:13 < CrazyTux> pnbeast, ok. How can I?
21:13 < nekUwU> I haven't ran into a website that needs flash in ages
21:13 < pnbeast> How were you just told to do it, CrazyTux?
21:14 < maxtothemax> cmptr: yeah, in this business we get so used to blindly trusing hardware :)
21:14 < nekUwU> Except some firearms websites
21:14 < nekUwU> I think Ruger's website needed flash for some content
21:14 < nekUwU> Not sure though
21:14 < CrazyTux> pnbeast, youtube-dl?
21:14 < quul> so by dead you mean, still in use?
21:14 < pnbeast> Yes.
21:14 < maxtothemax> homestarrunner.com. and don't tell me to watch it on youtube, vector > raster all day
21:14 < nekUwU> It's basically dead
21:14 < maxtothemax> pretty much yes
21:14 < nekUwU> Extremely few websites use it
21:14 < CrazyTux> do other flavours of Ubuntu like xubuntu, ubuntu mate collect user info?
21:15 < nekUwU> And if they do it's only minor content
21:15 < nekUwU> CrazyTux: I'd just stay clear of all official Ubuntu distros
21:15 < nekUwU> Take a look at this website
21:15 < nekUwU> https://spyware.neocities.org/articles/firefox.html
21:15 < cmptr> I'm a computer technician and I've just never had to do this before.  The closest thing I had to do to repair something was a laptop when I just took out the battery, held the powerbutton for 30 seconds put the battery back in and it worked...  Then I also sold it for full price saying it was bran new.  ^.^
21:15 < CrazyTux> nekUwU, ok. Could you just elaborate a bit?
21:15 < nekUwU> Firefox has always been disrespecting your privacy
21:15 < steamport> Hey
21:16 < nekUwU> CrazyTux: Stay clear of Ubuntu is what I'm saying
21:16 < maxtothemax> CrazyTux: Linux Mint is a very similar Ubuntu derivative that doesn't have data collection
21:16 < steamport> is there a channel for linux KERNEL coding?
21:16 < nekUwU> Mint I think is fine
21:16 < quul> steamport: #KERNEL
21:16 < CrazyTux> Mint is fine?
21:16 < domhnall> nekUwU: what's that about? firefox and that dpgr thing?
21:16 < maxtothemax> should be, yeah
21:16 < cmptr> Debian is better.
21:16 < CrazyTux> but, it is based on ubuntu. Isn't it?
21:16 < nekUwU> domhnall: Multuple things
21:16 < maxtothemax> quul: thanks, I'll ask my swap question there
21:16 < domhnall> hmm...ok
21:16 < triceratux> siduction ftw
21:16 < maxtothemax> CrazyTux: yes, but the data collection systems have been removed
21:17 < cmptr> Ubuntu is based off of Debian, so you should just go with Debian and install everything that you want/need.
21:17 < maxtothemax> debian is also a good option
21:17 < cmptr> Including the DE, isntall that manually. .
21:17 < isak__> Can't you turn off the data collecting in ubuntu? Still a bit suspicious that it's enabled by default...
21:17 < jim> steamport, maybe #kernelnewbies on oftc.net
21:17 < domhnall> strange firefox being a mozilla product having issue with privacy and they're advocating net-neutrality.
21:17 < CrazyTux> maxtothemax, ok. But, let me ask again. Does Ubuntu Mate also collect user info? what is the nature of info that is collected?
21:17 < maxtothemax> I have no idea what the other ubuntu spins do
21:18 < nekUwU> "  Websites you visit most often are added to the New Tab panel. When you then open a new tab, Firefox will sometimes make requests to the sites in there, including some of their trackers."
21:18 < CrazyTux> ok
21:18 < CrazyTux> so, Mint is safer than Ubuntu in that respect.
21:18 < CrazyTux> ?
21:18 < maxtothemax> yes
21:18 < nekUwU> yep
21:19 < nekUwU> and it's great for new users
21:19 < CrazyTux> ok.
21:19 < cmptr> Isn't mint's repo's rolling though?
21:19 < nekUwU> No
21:19 < maxtothemax> no
21:19 < CrazyTux> is trisquel suitable for new users?
21:19 < maxtothemax> LMDE might be
21:19 < cmptr> What am I thinking of?
21:19 < nekUwU> CrazyTux: probably not
21:19 < ayecee> arch, maybe
21:19 < CrazyTux> nekUwU, ok
21:19 < cmptr> Nope, not that one ayecee.  Lol.
21:19 < nekUwU> Trisquel doesn't install ANY proprietary software
21:20 < steamport> but yeah, I'm porting code from Linux 3.x, which has code in board-msm8974. where would i put it in modern linux
21:20 < nekUwU> Which means your computer probably wont work with it
21:20 < domhnall> CrazyTux: i'd say it's learning curv...so not likely.
21:20 < maxtothemax> CrazyTux: only if you buy a computer that's certified by the FSF to work without any proprietary software. those should work with trisequel ok
21:20 < maxtothemax> I've been using Basilisk for a while. it's a firefox fork that keeps old addon compatibility and doesn't have widevine or the about:newtab debacle
21:20 < maxtothemax> would recommend if those things are important to you
21:20 < Sane> Hi, I need some help. I have a Linux machine running sshd and it's port 22. Port 22 is open, I can SSH from outside and the computer it's on itself, but not from my second computer on the same network
21:20 < hexnewbie> If Trisquel is unsuitable for new system administrators, the new users themselves will probably be fine with it if you ever get it to work.
21:21 < hexnewbie> s/If //
21:21 < nekUwU> Arch is pretty easy to install. It just requires a lot of time
21:21 < CrazyTux> what kind of user info does Ubuntu collect?
21:21 < nekUwU> but the dev team are too lazy to maintain a good installer
21:21 < triceratux> CrazyTux: my computer runs trisquel fine. but thats generic ubuntu meets generic optiplex. nothing could possibly go wrong ;)
21:21 < dgurney> CrazyTux, nothing you can't opt out of
21:21 < maxtothemax> as I recall it collected information about file searches
21:21 < nekUwU> maxtothemax: that was a long time ago
21:21 < dgurney> ^
21:21 < nekUwU> its sicne been disabled
21:21 < nekUwU> but that was pretty bad
21:21 < dgurney> it was, but they learned their lesson it seems
21:22 < cmptr> CrazyTux: The correct answer is that who cares what it collects, the fact is that it collects your crap then tries to sell you vitamins.
21:22 < cmptr> (Ie: don't use it.  Lol.)
21:22 < dgurney> don't be ridiculous, ubuntu does not do that
21:22 < CrazyTux> cmptr, I definitely don't want that.
21:23 < cmptr> I was over exadurating a bit dgurney, but my point was is that you don't want a DE that collects your data no matter what it is.
21:23  * cmptr I good spell
21:23 < maxtothemax> CrazyTux: it's totally possible to turn this off in ubuntu. but if you think you might get anxiety from wondering whether you turned it off correctly, linux mint is the closest thing to ubuntu that just doesn't have that code
21:23 < dgurney> my point is that gnome and any other major one I'm aware of doesn't do that
21:23 < oxagast> a
21:23 < dgurney> no need to fear monger to drive your point across
21:24 < domhnall> newb question (gonna check anyway), Debian derived from knoppix, right?
21:24 < maxtothemax>  no
21:24 < dgurney> absolutely not
21:24 < domhnall> ok...
21:24 < CrazyTux> maxtothemax, ok
21:24 < maxtothemax> other way around
21:24 < cmptr> Debian is not derrived from anything.  Lol.
21:24 < domhnall> ok..
21:24 < domhnall> TrueOS is based on FreeBSD though right?
21:25 < maxtothemax>  yes
21:25 < nekUwU> OpenBSD is one of my favorite operating systems
21:25 < nekUwU> Ever
21:25 < domhnall> alright so, GhostBSD is proposing to base off TrueOS...not sure the logic, im reading their site though to make sense.
21:26 < dgurney> not sure how that's related to Linux domhnall
21:26 < nekUwU> Distrowatch claims GhostBSD is just based off pure FreeBSD
21:26 < nekUwU> https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=ghostbsd
21:26 < domhnall> dgurney: it's not...hence reason no question about that part. :)
21:27 < ALowther> Does anybody know a good resource where I can learn about how SSH works? Kind of on a lower level? I am trying to conceptualize what is happening upon a connection being established. If the client is authenticated, does the server launch a terminal process that the client then interacts with? Is the client bound by color settings and other profile settings set on the server? What kind of metadata
21:27 < ALowther> is sent to the client? Or is the server just sending the directory structure and the client knows how to display it? Idk just looking for some context & understanding in that general realm of questioning.....thanks.
21:28 < deepfalcon> 5555555555555555555555555555555555555
21:28 < jim> knoppix, ubuntu, probably a bunch of others basically started by taking a debian and putting their name on it,,, knoppix in particular is a live cd I think
21:28 < jim> that's a lot of 5s...
21:29 < jim> ALowther, there's source code for it, for one thing
21:30 < jim> ALowther, I know you've seen what ssh some.place.com does... have you ever tried ssh -v some.place.com?
21:30 < ALowther> Jim: written in C, I presume. I’ll check it out. I don’t know if I’m on a level of getting a clear understanding from just reading source C, unless there is stellar documentation. It’s definitely a start though, thank you.
21:31 < ALowther> Jim: I have not. I will look that up. Thank you.
21:31 < CrazyTux> I suppose, Arch or distros based on Arch, like Manjaro don't collect user data.
21:31 < jim> yeah, I think it's in C
21:31 < triceratux> https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/linux-fragmentation-sum-egos.html
21:32 < mouses> Does anyone happen to know anything about bitlbee?  The version in the ubuntu 16.04 repos is way out of date, i'm trying to install the most up to date from source - however I'm getting this:  https://pastebin.com/yvTAeYbx (which is odd, as all three packages are installed)
21:32 < Sane> Hi, I need some help. I have a Linux machine running sshd and it's using port 22. Port 22 is forwarded for that machine and port 22 is open; confirmed using port scanners. I can SSH the machine from outside the network, and can SSH it from the computer it's on itself using its IP and 'localhost', but not from my second computer on the same network... | Any idea how I can fix that? | Network...
21:32 < Sane> ...error: Connection refused
21:32 < mouses> Sane: second computer on same network = what is it running?
21:32 < Sane> Windows
21:32 < mouses> Sane: perhaps some local firewall rules are blocking it?
21:33 < Sane> Let me check
21:33 < mouses> Sane: refer to it perhaps as 'internal lan IP' vs localhost?
21:34 < mouses> ummm, i mean internal lan ip vs internet ip
21:34 < Sane> mouses: not sure if relevant but all machines are connected wi-fi, none by ethernet
21:34 < mouses> sorry, been a long day
21:34 < Sane> via*
21:34 < mouses> Sane: should not make any difference - i'm guessing something in windows is blocking it - check the firewall settings
21:34 < mouses> Sane: can you ping it?
21:35 < jim> Sane, usually, connection refused means nothing can be found at that ip on that port
21:35 < mouses> Sane: command prompt - ping ip.address.of.machine.running.ssh
21:35 < Sane> I can ping the ip of the machine from the machine itself but not n this comp... mouses
21:35 < mouses> Sane: and you can ping the ip of the machine from outside of the lan too?
21:35 < Sane> I am conected to it utside the home net
21:35 < Gasoline> lol better check casual daemon
21:35 < Sane> outside*
21:35 < Gasoline> I'm back!
21:35 < mouses> (also, are you talking internal IP or external IP)
21:36 < mouses> Sane: can you ping the internal LAN ip of the machine running a ssh server from this windows machine?
21:36 < Sane> Outside connection is external/public IP, mouses
21:36 < mouses> what about the external?
21:36 < mouses> right
21:36 < Sane> Internal is the 192.168 blah blah mouses
21:36 < mouses> Sane: I know :)
21:36 < mouses> Sane: so pinging 192.168.x.x from the windows machine = no love
21:36 < mouses> Sane: what about pinging the external IP?
21:36 < Sane> Not on the comp
21:37 < Sane> this*
21:37 < mouses> so both fail?
21:38 < Sane> If I ping from this comp, mouses I get request timed out
21:38 < mouses> Sane: If you ping what - 192.168.x.x or whatever.the.public.ip.is
21:38 < mouses> or both?
21:39 < ziggylazer> Sane, you have 2 machines that wants to ping a server on the same LAN as the server and drops the ICMP?
21:39 < jim> Sane, hmm... maybe it would be helpful if you give the machines names, just for this conversation's sake
21:39 < steamport> Anyone know how to mmap from /dev/mem
21:40 < Sane> mouses: I can ping the external IP fine
21:40 < Sane> Just not the 192***
21:40 < ziggylazer> https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/programming-9/mmap-tutorial-c-c-511265/ what you looking for?
21:40 < mouses> Sane: Okay, can you ssh into the external IP from the windows machine?
21:40 < Sane> Let me see
21:40 < ziggylazer> Hey jim whats up?
21:40 < jim> steamport, (I don't know how to mmap... but...) have you found the #kernelnewbies channel
21:40 < jim> ?
21:41 < jim> ziggylazer, hi, not too much, just getting hungry
21:41 < steamport> thats where i got told to mmap, jim
21:41 < jim> steamport, ok, good :)
21:42 < ziggylazer> Go eat! ;) Spent the day setting up .1x on cisco with EAP authentication on a win 16 AD server.
21:42 < ziggylazer> Did not go well
21:42 < jim> didn't work?
21:43 < ziggylazer> The switch drops the mac
21:43 < ziggylazer> Clients are running over a VM
21:43 < ziggylazer> and the second mac gets dropped.
21:43 < jim> I would wonder if you have a mac conflict?
21:43 < ziggylazer> Nah 9 hours later and still where I was this morning
21:43 < mouses> ziggylazer: rip :(
21:44 < Sane> mouses: I can't SSH using the external IP on this comp
21:44 < ziggylazer> jim, dont think so. 1 client to test with
21:44 < ziggylazer> Or what do you mean by conflict?
21:44 < mouses> Sane: hmmmmm - so based on everything I know about this - I'm thinking this is a 'Windows Thing (tm)'
21:44 < ziggylazer> From the physical NIC?
21:45 < jim> two nics on the same net with the same mac addr
21:45 < mouses> Sane: perhaps try disabling any software firewalls running on said windows machine?
21:45 < Sane> mouses: what should I look for in the firewal
21:45 < Sane> The whole thing
21:45 < mouses> Sane: nothing yet - just turn it off for a moment
21:45 < Sane> I'll try
21:45 < ziggylazer> ah. But they have different macs
21:45 < mouses> Sane: just for testing
21:45 < mouses> Sane: that way we can isolate the issue
21:46 < jim> the only other thing I can think of, could there be something wrong with the switch?
21:46 < ziggylazer> jim, you are making me unsure now. I'll go check this. If this is the issue I might go drown myselfe
21:47 < ziggylazer> I think its the switch as well. But I seem to be lacking in Cisco knowhow
21:47 < ziggylazer> Yeah different macs.
21:47 < Sane> mouses. Disabling the firewall and trying to SSH using both internal and external still doesn't work from this machine
21:47 < jim> is the switch tacked to a wall or something like that? can you try another switch/
21:47 < jim> ?
21:48 < steamport> Anyone know how to dump a memory range to a file?
21:48 < ziggylazer> Yeah tried 2.
21:48 < ziggylazer> This is a sample of the logfile
21:48 < ziggylazer> https://pastebin.com/HduzJJLW
21:48 < jim> that probably rules out the switch
21:48 < mouses> Sane: damn it!
21:49 < mouses> Sane: something about that machine.....
21:49 < Sane> IKR
21:49 < mouses> Sane: I wish I could help you more, i'm out of ideas
21:49 < Sane> I was thinking maybe a crafty windows service, mouses
21:49 < ziggylazer> The conf is off somehow. Just a pain to TS the thing
21:50 < ziggylazer> Sane, 2 machines 1 server on same subnet?
21:50 < mouses> Sane: very likely - hopefully someone here knows more about windows than I do
21:50 < mouses> ziggylazer: yeah, they are all same subnet
21:50 < mouses> ziggylazer: all connected via wifi
21:50 < ziggylazer> one can ping one cant?
21:50 < mouses> ziggylazer: yup
21:50 < jim> Sane, could you spell those abbreviations out? the mods thought it would be a good idea to not permit those kinds of abbreviations because some folks might not understand them
21:50 < howlymowly> hi everyone..    I am using KDE, if I cancel moving a directory in KDE...  wil I lose any files? or will it just stop..  and the last file that was  "in the process" of being moved, just stays in its original location?
21:51 < ziggylazer> mouses, any rules in the whatever firewall you have?
21:51 < mouses> howlymowly: sort of - the last file moving may leave behind a invalid file in the 'move to' destination
21:51 < ntd> steamport, you better do a proper search for that
21:51 < mouses> ziggylazer: sane, not me - I was just catching you up - and we already disabled his firewall
21:51 < jim> Sane. so, spell ikr out as I know, right, for example
21:51 < ntd> steamport, there's a lot of context
21:51 < ziggylazer> Sane, got wireshark running?
21:51 < Sane> jim, I apologies
21:51 < mouses> ziggylazer: so Sane's firewall is not a issue - I'm guessing some 'antivirus' or weird windows thing?
21:51 < howlymowly> mouses: ok, but the original stays untouched?   thats basically the only important thing to me ;)
21:52 < jim> Sane, and I know that's frustrating too
21:52 < ziggylazer> Would help to see what wireshark says
21:53 < steamport> ntd: i want to dump pstore/ramoops from memory, to a file
21:53 < ziggylazer> From both sides. Then you will likely see whats up
21:53 < steamport> but i can't use the pstore driver, as i'm trying to access a linux 4.17 ramoops... from 3.4
21:53 < ntd> steamport, i get it. but irc will be less generous with the context :)
21:53 < steamport> I still don't know how to do that
21:54 < ziggylazer> mouses, It sounds very strange. And when in doubt. Wireshark
21:54 < mouses> Sane: for a sanity check - maybe boot a live linux session on the computer with issues, connect it to the LAN, test - that way we know 100% the issue is windows vs some networking issue?
21:55 < mouses> ziggylazer: always wireshark all the things <3
21:55 < Sane> mouses: I might have to do that
21:55 < mouses> Sane: wish I could be more help - i'm pretty clueless when it comes to windows things
22:02 < revel> Anyone here booting Linux with EFISTUB + efibootmgr and appending kernel options with --unicode? If so, do you have to have a space in the beginning or is it just me?
22:07 < domhnall> hmm, is that why I have this: "36.151] (EE) Failed to load module "intel" (module does not exist, 0)"
22:08 < domhnall> and for sure, "Microcode Updates for Intel x86/x86-64 CPUs" is installed.
22:09 < revel> domhnall: The microcode and graphics drivers should be unrelated.
22:12 < domhnall> revel: ok
22:12 < revel> You may need to install some package.
22:12 < revel> One containing the Intel graphics drivers, that is.
22:25 < domhnall> revel: so, did a repo search, is line 13 the one i need to fix my [EE] message?
22:25 < domhnall> http://dpaste.com/0ZAP1W7
22:27 < revel> domhnall: No, CPU microcodes will not change anything with Xorg, since that would only complain about graphics drivers. I'm guessing xf86-video-intel is what you need.
22:30 < phinxy> when a program like streamlink or rtv invokes mpv media player the input controls does not function.  I've tried --terminal option but it made no difference, although --no-terminal creates the same problem, kind of.
22:31 < phinxy> mpv must be the longest man
22:31 < nekUwU> I don't really like MPV
22:32 < nekUwU> You have to open the file manager and manually drag in media
22:32 < nekUwU> I like Parole
22:32 < phogg> Doesn't mpv use some kind of slave mode when it is spawned that way?
22:32 < phinxy> Have you ever tried to use mplayer?  Its much worse
22:32 < phogg> bite your tongue, mplayer is the best
22:32 < quul> have to make a playlist file for mplayer to not suck
22:33 < phogg> quul: why?
22:33 < quul> next/previous track
22:33 < phogg> mplayer <filename> # doesn't get easier than that
22:33 < phogg> quul: mplayer does that just fine if you list the files in the order you want on the command line
22:33 < phogg> use < and > for prev/next
22:34 < quul> like making a playlist but not saving it?
22:34 < nekUwU> Parole is only 1.7mb in installed size
22:34 < phogg> mplayer -fs <dir>/* # this is what I do when I want to watch a season of something
22:34 < phogg> quul: no idea, never used playlists with mplayer (except very rarely m3u)
22:35 < nekUwU> And only 4 dependencies
22:35 < quul> it's a list of files to play
22:35 < phogg> quul: I known what a playlist is, I just don't know what it's like to use mplayer with a playlist.
22:36 < phogg> nekUwU: parole depends on a crapton of libs, so the size is deceptive. For example it depends on gstreamer so that size doesn't count *any* of the codecs.
22:37 < nekUwU> Gstreamer is something I always install
22:37 < phogg> good for you, buddy
22:37 < nekUwU> Why thank you
22:38 < nekUwU> Gstreamer is a very nice framework despite its size
22:38 < nekUwU> Its why so many programs require it
22:39 < phogg> hah, no
22:39 < phogg> gstreamer is not too bad, but I would not call it nice
22:39 < nekUwU> And mplayer requires more dependencies than it anyways
22:39 < nekUwU> And has a bigger installed size
22:40 < phogg> it's good only for cases where you don't really care about your media and want it to Just Work, quality of the experience be damned
22:40 < phogg> nekUwU: mplayer is hands down the single best video player on any platform for any purpose.
22:40 < dviola> mpv is nice also
22:40 < phogg> It handles broken files, obscure formats, low powered systems, etc, etcv
22:40 < nekUwU> phogg: That's highly debatable
22:41 < phogg> dviola: mpv is a fork of mplayer, so of course it is nice
22:41 < dviola> phogg: right
22:41 < revel> phogg: Doesn't handle midi though.
22:41 < phogg> nekUwU: I am not here to debate. I've been around, I've tried them all. Voice of experience: It's the best.
22:41 < revel> Or does it? mpv doesn't.
22:41 < Tech_8> sup
22:41 < phogg> revel: I've not tried midi, but I doubt it
22:41 < nekUwU> phogg: That's just you then
22:41  * phogg goes to try
22:41 < quul> i've ran into files that mplayer couldn't open, but xine could
22:41 < dviola> something I like about mpv is that I can fast forward while it's paused and it won't unpause itself, can mplayer do this yet?
22:42 < phogg> revel: nope, not midi. I expect it won't do tracker formats at all; maybe if you compile in mikmod
22:42 < phogg> nekUwU: Yeah, no. That's not just me. Pick a measurement *other* than GUI and I'll show that mplayer wins by that measurement. For GUI it's true that mplayer itself has none, but there are some front ends which are okay.
22:43 < phogg> dviola: not that I know of. Never tried.
22:43 < nekUwU> I like the terminal, don't get me wrong, but doing things like playing media just feels better using a GUI
22:43 < Tech_8> mpg123 is cool for terminal
22:43 < Tech_8> playing music
22:43 < phogg> quul: Yeah, me too. Even then xine rarely worked *well*. Is xine still developed?
22:43 < phogg> nekUwU: smplayer, done
22:44 < luke-jr> Tech_8: except it only plays mp3?
22:44 < dviola> nekUwU: in your file browser -> right click on a file and open with mpv/mplayer, boom you can use those in the GUI too
22:44 < Tech_8> yeah and listen to streaming radio
22:44 < nekUwU> I suppose
22:44 < quul> phogg: Stable release 0.99.9 (August 21, 2014; 3 years ago)
22:44 < phogg> Tech_8: for playing music I prefer xmms2
22:44 < quul> soo close!
22:44 < nekUwU> But having a media player that's 15mb in size without the codecs? lol no
22:44 < Tech_8> yeah for gui
22:44 < phogg> quul: so it could still be active
22:44 < luke-jr> I use Clementine, but I can't recommend it.
22:44 < nekUwU> (smplayer)
22:44 < nicholasBPM> My VPN provider allows three simultaneous connections and about 15 different servers.. i want to setup three proxies that that uses three different VPN connections on one single computer.. is that possible?
22:45 < klock> luke-jr: i was sitting here debating on whether or not to even mention clementine
22:45 < klock> i can't help but love it though
22:45 < phogg> nekUwU: what do you care? 15 megs is nothing these days
22:45 < nekUwU> I like reducing bloat on my system
22:45 < revel> features=bloat
22:45 < luke-jr> nekUwU: so you run Gentoo?
22:45 < pnbeast> nekUwU, it's all about the use flags!
22:46 < phogg> nekUwU: it's *NOT* bloat, the stack you need to make gstreamer work is even bigger. It's actually necessary.
22:46 < nekUwU> I used to run Funtoo
22:46 < nekUwU> smplayer requires ffmpeg
22:46 < nekUwU> Which is much larger than gstreamer
22:46 < phogg> nekUwU: bloat is the excess, the things you *don't* need.
22:46 < nekUwU> :)
22:46 < quul> phogg: oh wait that might be a date on the screenshot i grabbed the caption from, 1.0.2 was in 2008
22:47 < phogg> nekUwU: mplayer uses *everything*, because it supports as many things as possible.
22:47 < phogg> quul: yeah, that sounds a lot more plausible
22:47 < nekUwU> The most obscure media format I use is 3gp, and every media player I've tried supports it
22:48 < phogg> nekUwU: good for you. I'm glad your life is easy.
22:48 < nekUwU> Thanks
22:48 < quul> phogg: xine-lib however,  2017 release
22:48 < phogg> nekUwU: mplayer has been playing everything I've thrown at it for 17 years.
22:48 < nekUwU> Congrats. same with me, only with different media players
22:48 < phogg> nekUwU: including obscure proprietary formats from the 90s that *nobody* supports any more.
22:48 < nekUwU> :-D
22:48 < nekUwU> Oh my
22:48 < nekUwU> What a killer feature
22:49 < phogg> if you want a one stop shop for Just Plays then mplayer is it.
22:49 < dviola> phogg: I recall using mplayer in the early days, was it 2000 or 2001 I don't remember, but it was amazing at what it could do back then, nothing else came even close
22:49 < nekUwU> I better go install it right now. Can't have discontinued formats from the 90's not supported on my media player
22:49 < nekUwU> :-O
22:49 < phogg> dviola: it has not changed in that regard
22:49 < dviola> phogg: yep
22:49 < phogg> dviola: it's too bad about the mpv/mplayer split, though. I hate to see a community fracture over little more than politics.
22:50 < pnbeast> I remember some time early in the 2000s, probably, NASA had some launch they were showing "on the web", me and all my co-workers were ready to watch and their windows software couldn't show it, but mplayer on some RH release was golden.
22:52 < Tech_8> people still use knopix
22:52 < phogg> Tech_8: some do
22:52 < phogg> not a lot, since being a livecd is not longer novel
22:52 < nekUwU> I remember KNOPPIX
22:52 < Tech_8> came with a good software suit
22:54 < dviola> phogg: yep, there were other forks before mpv, were those forks because of developers were conservative with making changes to mplayer?
22:54 < Tech_8> debian vs ubuntu?
22:54 < nekUwU> Devuan
22:54 < dviola> because developers were*
22:54 < evanesoteric> Is there a LUKS encryption alternative that I could use to encrypt full USB-disks compatible with Windows/FAT32?
22:54 < dviola> phogg: it reminds me of vim/neovim
22:54 < nekUwU> Devuan is basically Debian but with a better init system
22:55 < nekUwU> Emacs all the way man
22:56 < dviola> I'm fine with systemd, I like the timers/services approach, I even created a timer to use as an alarm clock
22:56 < phogg> dviola: it was mplayer -> mplayer2 -> mpv, directly.
22:57 < Cann0n> so i'm new to touch screen monitors and this laptop has windows... and i'm gonna put linux on it. before I do, whats the support like for touch screens?
22:57 < dviola> https://gist.github.com/diegoviola/c6ba3eb1d914e883b1085d38e59b6e30
22:57 < quul> Cann0n: "touch screens",  it has touch screen support
22:57 < nekUwU> dviola: systemd is insanely bloated
22:57 < nekUwU> The features it provides isn't worth it for me
22:57 < phogg> dviola: the forking was as I understand it partially over licensing but mostly over internal architecture. Basically the mplayer2 people wanted to not link in private copies of lots of libs and wanted to dump a lot of code for cases that they didn't care about, like the built in GUI and mencoder.
22:58 < nekUwU> sysV has recently started to kick development back up again
22:58 < phogg> dviola: I stick with mplayer over mpv even though mpv has a simpler and more rational set of CLI options and is a lot cleaner because I am on board with the "does everything" idea even if it's messy to do so.
22:58 < Cann0n> yeah well i like touch screen. tablet mode is a pretty legit feature for a laptop for me... my main concern is have been out of the linux world for about 5 years...
22:59 < Cann0n> and also my ham radio equipment wasn't fully compatible with linux 2 years ago. this is currently the only computer I own and i hate windows... i'm also super lazy
22:59 < dviola> phogg: I see, right
23:00 < quul> only one way to find out if it works or not, aside from looking up the hardware specifics
23:00 < phogg> dviola: they also dumped support for a some more obscure formats, or for things for which there were no maintainers.
23:00 < Acheron> hello phogg
23:00 < Tech_8> windows 10 isnt bad
23:00 < phogg> Acheron: ?
23:00 < Tech_8> I like it
23:01 < phogg> Tech_8: bite your tongue!
23:01 < Tech_8> I like windows xp too
23:01 < Acheron> juse saying hello
23:01 < dviola> phogg: https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/issues/2033
23:01 < nekUwU> Tech_8: LOL
23:01 < phogg> Acheron: Okay. Why?
23:01 < jim> Acheron, hi
23:01 < nekUwU> I dislike mplayer because it's bloated :-|
23:01 < Acheron> hello jim
23:02 < dviola> phogg: I see they have this issue open for relicensing still
23:02 < phogg> dviola: yes, it's an ongoing effort for a couple years now
23:02 < Acheron> <-- testing Kubuntu 18.04 ATM
23:02 < Cann0n> i just hate windows. this is the first time i've used a computer outside of work this year and... ive been trying to download a 1GB update for my newly acquired PS4 and the download errors out and windows crashed 4 times now. So i figure since my girlfriend finished her 3rd degree and didn't need a laptop at my house anymore, I can just dive back into linux
23:03 < jim> Tech_8, I bet you like the legal agreements you've made :)
23:03 < nekUwU> My biggest issue with windows is their updates
23:03 < nekUwU> Their fucking updates
23:03 < Acheron> yeah
23:03 < phogg> my biggest issue is their *awful* window manager
23:03 < phogg> you can replace the desktop shell if you really want, but there is no escaping that WM
23:03 < candidat> their trojan updates
23:03 < Acheron> you would have thought that would be fixed by now
23:03 < nekUwU> But the privacy, for ethical reasons, is also a horrible thing
23:04 < Acheron> thats what really killed my interest in windows
23:04 < Acheron> especially when you start a system with a blank drive
23:04 < phogg> I'll back that up and reframe it: My biggest problem with Windows is that it is chock full of *layering violations*, making it *technically* badly designed. A consequence of this is that there is no escaping their bad WM.
23:05 < Cann0n> my biggest issue is everything. the lack of command line function. the lack of customization. the registry BS. how it needs life sucking background programs to function. viruses/malware/etc. the fact that most "worthy software" isn't free
23:05 < dviola> phogg: are there any reasons for moving away from mpv's current license (GPL)? other than allowing third party/proprietary software to use it as a library?
23:05 < phogg> Acheron: There is some sign that Microsoft is finally learning. Notepad is getting an update that will allow it to open files with Unix newlines without choking. Imagine that!
23:06 < phogg> dviola: the biggest one they list on that page is the opengl rendering method they want to use
23:06 < nekUwU> They also have made visual studio code open source and for Linux
23:06 < phogg> dviola: all the stuff about embedding is just an obvious side effect of the change
23:06 < nekUwU> But I don't really consider that a good thing
23:06 < nekUwU> Since VS code is shit
23:06 < phogg> nekUwU: forget that, they opened a surprising amount of C#
23:07 < SuperSeriousCat> Windows is for gaming and drawing/recording music/video editing etc. And it is the best option for that
23:07 < dviola> phogg: oh, interesting
23:07 < phogg> Cann0n: needing life sucking background functions is one of its strengths. Microkernel services but without a real microkernel.
23:07 < Cann0n> Only reason everyone uses Windows is because thats what computers come with. Same with qwerty keymap.
23:07 < nekUwU> SuperSeriousCat: there's alternatives on Linux
23:08 < nekUwU> Maybe not as good
23:08 < nekUwU> But you could probably run them using WINE
23:08 < SuperSeriousCat> Professionals needs the best
23:08 < SuperSeriousCat> And it need to work. Cant have an update making it unstable in WINE
23:08 < nekUwU> Then why are they using a shit operating system
23:08 < nekUwU> ;)
23:08 < dviola> phogg: I see some mplayer developers are missing and/or passed away, and some didn't consent it, I wonder how they are going to get around that
23:08 < SuperSeriousCat> Because there are no other options for them
23:08 < phogg> SuperSeriousCat: you can do most of those things on Linux just as well as on Windows if you are a bit careful about how you set it up. You're right that it's not as turnkey as it should be.
23:09 < phogg> dviola: rewriting, probably
23:09 < Cann0n> phogg: i just don't know what i need an update manager running all the time... or a warranty program. every single time i disable it on boot, it wants to kick back in and let me know my battery isn't good and i need select if I should send warranty data to HP
23:09 < phogg> Cann0n: the lack of control for the user is a bad thing, but the architecture of having those services is not
23:09 < SuperSeriousCat> You need to tweak the kernel to even consider recording music on Linux
23:10 < nekUwU> SuperSeriousCat: what are you talking about
23:10 < phogg> SuperSeriousCat: what do you need other than the rt patches?
23:10 < Tech_8> linux needs antivirus and good updates
23:10 < Tech_8> so you dont get a virus
23:10 < dgurney> lol
23:10 < nekUwU> Tech_8: No you don't
23:10 < phogg> Tech_8: stop trolling
23:10 < nekUwU> lol
23:10 < dgurney> and yeah, I thought rt patches are all you need as well?
23:10 < SuperSeriousCat> Still tweaking
23:10 < phogg> what would benefit Windows is a good package manager
23:11 < dgurney> well yes, but it's not too bad
23:11 < dgurney> (the tweaking)
23:11 < dgurney> I think there's chocolatey, but that's third party
23:11 < phogg> SuperSeriousCat: Eventually the -rt stuff will make it in to mainline. A lot of it has over the years.
23:11 < jim> Tech_8, what's one thing about linux that prevents viruses?
23:12 < Cann0n> I'd like to see a tier of windows that is opensource...
23:12 < Cann0n> jim: oooh! i know this!
23:12 < dgurney> wouldn't we all
23:12 < dgurney> burt I don't think open-source Windows of any sort will happen soon
23:12 < jim> Cann0n shh :)\
23:12 < phogg> I don't know, there's the .desktop file loophole. Or did that get fixed?
23:13 < mouses> SuperSeriousCat: been into music production since the late 1990's using 100% GNU/Foss solutions, never had to 'tweak a kernel'
23:13 < phogg> dgurney: I no longer consider it impossible. Microsoft could one day release a version of win32 for Linux. If they do the given reason will be to provide a consistent platform for application developers.
23:13 < nekUwU> mouses: Can I hear a sample of some of your music?
23:14 < phogg> mouses: better question: is any of it for sale somewhere?
23:14 < mouses> nekUwU: nope - I keep my personal life / professional life / IRC life as separate containers :)
23:14 < dgurney> yeah, I agree phogg, but it's still not very likely, at least not soon
23:14 < phogg> dgurney: not this year. Give it maybe 5 or so.
23:14 < nekUwU> I see
23:14 < dgurney> indeed, so not very soon like I said :P
23:14 < mouses> too many creeps out there
23:14 < Tech_8> is it rap music
23:15 < mouses> Tech_8: mostly I am into industrial / futurepop stuff, I also do drums for a few bands
23:15 < Tech_8> whats industrial?
23:16 < mouses> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_music
23:16 < SuperSeriousCat> You must use some music distro that have the rt patches then, or are not professional enough to hear the cracks/glitches due to the "vanilla" kernels nature, mouses
23:16 < Tech_8> oh kinda like techno
23:16 < mouses> Tech_8: lol :)  *hiss*
23:17 < mouses> SuperSeriousCat: I guess I just suck and am not 'professional enough'
23:17  * mouses giggles :)
23:17 < Cann0n> I wish Yaesu based their CM off a compatible device... its hit or miss with newer ham radios
23:17 < jim> Tech_8, as you can tell, people are aware of the central thing that prevents viruses from getting into your system... probably no big deal if you don't know... how long have you been running linux for?
23:18 < phogg> I run -rt just so jack works smoothly, and I only listen to music. You can live without it, but don't.
23:18 < jim> what's the latest working rt patch?
23:19 < phogg> I'd have to ask Google, same as you.
23:19 < mouses> SuperSeriousCat: never had to need to futz with real time patches, nor do I have any issues with 'cracks/glitches'
23:19 < phogg> jim: looks like it's this https://mirrors.edge.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/4.4/
23:20 < revel> phogg: These are even later (chronologically and by version) https://mirrors.edge.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/4.9/
23:20 < Cann0n> jim: in my 18 years of linux... minus my recent 5 year absence, i've never once encountered a malicious code... and it made me proud to be apart of a community whose progression in technology isn't out to F%$K people
23:20 < pnbeast> mouses, you have to use Monster Cables to hear the difference, otherwise your cocobolo tonewood cabineted speakers made with rare-earth magnets from a volcano don't capture the true warmth of the -rt sound.
23:20 < phogg> revel: ah, seems like they're lax in updating their news page then
23:22 < mouses> pnbeast: lol I dip the mics over my drum kit in pure gold and get the perfect warm sound via goat blood
23:22 < Tech_8> I bet reddit has lots of viruses
23:22 < phogg> well there's your problem
23:22 < Tech_8> or youtube
23:22 < phogg> goat blood is terrible for warm sound
23:22 < mouses> Tech_8: troll harder, maybe someone will notice it
23:22 < phogg> you want elk blood, but only from wild elk. Pricey but worth it
23:23 < pnbeast> Farm raised elk are pretty good.  It takes a golden ear to differentiate the sound.
23:23 < mouses> phogg: question - can I use deer blood as a alternative if I have linux running on a dead badger?
23:23 < phogg> Tech_8: Trolling isn't as easy as it sounds. You need to make it *sound* good.
23:23 < phogg> mouses: Sure, if you want to be plebeian and have all kinds of harsh notes.
23:23 < mouses> Cann0n: the community is what has kept me here for nearly 20 years
23:24 < mouses> phogg: You.  I like you :)
23:24 < Cann0n> what software is best for catching redfish in the St Johns River?
23:24 < mouses> Cann0n: http://strangehorizons.com/non-fiction/articles/installing-linux-on-a-dead-badger-users-notes/
23:24 < Cann0n> mouses: yeah. you have the 3 types of people. The guys you can talk to. the guys you can't talk too. and the guys that dont talk. or gals.
23:25 < phogg> a real pro would have installed netbsd
23:25 < pnbeast> It's a badger, not a toaster.
23:25 < Tech_8> why netbsd
23:25 < Cann0n> mouses: i haven't tried a dead badger but I did try a decommissioned toaster oven
23:25 < jim> Tech_8, so you've been running linux now for how long?
23:25 < phogg> Tech_8: because old jokes are the best
23:25 < mouses> she's a old meme, but she still runs fine!
23:25 < phogg> Tech_8: haven't you heard that BSD is dying?
23:25  * mouses kicks the tires
23:25 < phogg> perfect for a dead badger
23:26 < Tech_8> no
23:26 < phogg> ah, to be young again
23:26 < Tech_8> since when has it been dying
23:26 < jim> Tech_8, see, because if you don't run linux at all, then trolling is the only reason you're here... and I'd have to take action if that's the case
23:26 < phogg> Oh my... today I learned that everything2 still exists. Incredible.
23:27 < Tech_8> i been using linux awhile
23:27 < pnbeast> Hmm, my half-assed script finished and says cmake is the largest manpage on my machine, by measure of wc -w, but I don't have mpv installed.  :/
23:27 < Cann0n> a while = less than a year
23:27 < Tech_8> since high school
23:27 < mouses> Tech_8: so like, since 2017?
23:27 < Tech_8> 2003
23:27 < jim> Tech_8, so how do you keep viruses out?
23:28 < Tech_8> i never got any in linux I dont think
23:28 < nekUwU> Tech_8: which distro
23:28 < Cann0n> so.. thats 2018 - 2003 = 1 year
23:28 < jim> Tech_8, good answer :)
23:28 < mouses> jim: +++ :)
23:28 < Tech_8> debian, fedora, redhat, slackware
23:28 < Cann0n> its alright. I haven't used a computer at home in 5 years so i'm basically starting over.
23:29 < Tech_8> ubuntu
23:29 < pnbeast> That's almost like Linux.
23:29 < jim> mouses, so you're a drum doer like that vinnie colaiuta dude?
23:29 < mouses> jim: oh, I wish!  I'm far from that good :(
23:30 < jim> I'm pretty sure it's hard to get that good :)
23:30 < mouses> jim: his stuff with Zappa is just... mindblowing amazing
23:30 < Cann0n> I've tasted many flavors of linux. Slackware was the first and last.
23:30 < jim> mouses, heard of jing chi?
23:30 < mouses> Cann0n: slackware was my first too!
23:30 < rascul> what does slackware taste like?
23:30 < mouses> jim: no!
23:30 < Cann0n> mouses: i believe we've talked in the past, many years ago.
23:31 < mouses> jim: added to 'read about this' list
23:31 < mouses> Cann0n: Maybe!  I've been around a while and love to help people in the community.
23:31 < jim> really... and have you recovered from the attack of the 20 pound pizza?
23:31 < Cann0n> rascul: like a 40 ton block of granite
23:31 < mouses> Cann0n: but I have a swiss-cheese memory from all the time travel
23:31 < mouses> :P
23:32 < nekUwU> rascul: slackware tastes like old bread
23:32 < Cann0n> nekUwU: taste like something solid...
23:32 < Cann0n> mouses: yeah i'm sure. I remember a few folks on here and in ##slackware
23:32 < nekUwU> so old that it stands out from all the other slightly less crusty bread
23:33 < Tech_8> pizza is good
23:33 < mouses> jim: I don't think anyone is ever over the attack of the 20lb pizza
23:33 < Tech_8> do they have 20lb pizza on that tv show food vs. man?
23:33 < jim> heh... so can you clap to it? :)
23:33 < Cann0n> nekUwU: yeah because they still bake that same bread
23:33 < mouses> jim: my personal idol when it comes to drums = Dave Grohl
23:34 < nekUwU> I have no idea how people can stand using Slackware when there's no dependency management
23:34 < Cann0n> i feel like linux goes well with ham radio and fly fishing
23:34 < jim> doesn't he play guitar and sing in foo fighers?
23:34 < phogg> I like that ##linux has become ##music-talk tonight.
23:34 < mouses> jim: yup!
23:34 < mouses> jim: that and Josh Freeze, of course - that man is amazing
23:34 < phogg> nekUwU: It takes all kinds of people. Some weirdos even use Windows. Amazing, right?
23:34 < mouses> Freese*
23:34 < nekUwU> there's tons of distros that ONLY install required dependencies like Void and CRUX so it's kind of pointless
23:34 < jim> obviously they got a great drummer
23:35 < HiddenCloud> i heard if u listen 2 music with alsa u wont get deaf
23:35 < phogg> nekUwU: I'm sure you'll convince the Slack fans of that real soon now.
23:35 < Cann0n> nekUwU: lol shhhhh... theres a few out there for slackware... SBo's popped up like 9 years ago
23:35 < mouses> HiddenCloud: yes but you need gold plated headphones :)
23:35 < quul> nekUwU: usually they do a full install, or install things they need as they go
23:35  * mouses gets back to work, have a fun day everyone :)
23:35 < Tech_8> jim: how long have you been using linux
23:35 < Cann0n> LOL@FULLINSTALL
23:35 < Cann0n> and generic kernels
23:35 < jim> since before kernel-1.0
23:35 < Tech_8> jim: and what linux do you recommend
23:35 < Tech_8> istro
23:36 < Cann0n> Tech_8: Slackware
23:36 < Tech_8> distor*
23:36 < jim> I think it was 0.96something when I started
23:36 < phogg> Tech_8: give up, your fingers are not cooperating today.
23:36 < phogg> jim: so the first time it was moderately complete, then?
23:36 < jim> it was very usable
23:36 < Cann0n> Salix and SLAX is a good slackware based light "try before you buy" slackware
23:37 < phogg> there were not many versions before that which had networking fully working
23:37 < jim> back then I was connecting with a modem...
23:37 < Tech_8> dialup
23:37 < Cann0n> jim: yeah... dial-up on linux was actually better than on windows
23:38 < jnes> heyhey is it possible to make with a certain type of warning disabled? some env variable?
23:38 < phogg> my first Linux install was some copy of Red Hat I got from a CD in the back of an administration handbook I checked out from my public library in 1997 or so.
23:38 < Cann0n> but back then we didn't have the luxury millenials have now...
23:38 < jim> Tech_8, well first off, I would need to know what you would want to do with the machine you'd install my recommended linux on
23:38 < Cann0n> phogg: i had the same one from a thrift store... and that was the first time i used KDE
23:38 < phogg> it took me five days to get my modem to dial, pppd to run and everything to stay connected
23:39 < Cann0n> phogg: ahhhhh... dial and pppd..... the good ol' days
23:39 < phogg> Cann0n: and minicom, and setserial
23:39 < pnbeast> jnes, yes.'
23:39 < Cann0n> lmfao i need a refresher on these topics... that was nearly 2 decades ago
23:39  * phogg has forgotten all of the modem init codes
23:40 < phogg> used to be I could type them in from memory
23:40 < badsekter> phogg: i had found a script for pppd written by |Rain| of #bitchx, that's what i used
23:40 < jnes> pnbeast: lol yea the thing is i want to compile some old code using gcc-7 but gcc adds -Wimplicit-fallthrough and the build is setup to fail on any warning
23:40 < jim> I mean, the first direct connection I had, was with slip
23:40 < phogg> badsekter: alas I had no way to get online so I had to figure it out using nothing more than the man pages RH shipped
23:40 < Cann0n> i got lazy and sudo'ed a bash script to do it for me... one for connect and one for disconnect.. then i got fancy and have one script to do both!!!
23:41 < badsekter> phogg, well at least you have the nostalgic memories of the pain
23:41 < Cann0n> i didnt know linux had a GUI for the first 6 months I used it........
23:41 < phogg> Cann0n: I called mine pon and poff (-:
23:41 < jim> jnes, you should be able to change that
23:41 < Cann0n> phogg: lol screech -on/off
23:41 < phogg> Cann0n: lol, nice naming
23:41 < jnes> so where should i find it, i generate the makefile with cmake, so either i tell cmake to add that pragma, or i tell make...?
23:42 < Cann0n> that was back when i only have /ext and /on my partitioning
23:42 < jim> Cann0n, linux -didn't- have a gui for like 4-6 months when I first started using it
23:42 < phogg> jnes: there's probably a better way but you can hack the generated Makefile.
23:43 < Cann0n> jim: showing your age, homie
23:43 < jim> I had to calculate a mode line
23:43 < Cann0n> i broke two CRTs figuring out Xorg
23:43 < badsekter> lol
23:44 < jnes> phogg: yea, i can also just install gcc-6 and use that.. but would be cool to find out how to disable certain warnings ..
23:44 < Cann0n> or whatever X was in 99
23:44 < Cann0n> Xfree86
23:44 < jim> and when I finally got 640x400 going, it was then that I realized "oh man, I need more ram!"
23:45 < Cann0n> lol 128MB was A LOT back then
23:45 < jim> I think I had 40 mb
23:45 < Cann0n> and a 4GB hd was like... almost unheard of
23:45 < badsekter> Cann0n: that was a time when a common desktop pc for home use had 32mb or 64mb RAM, so forget about GNOME or KDE, even windowmaker with netscape would work very slow
23:45 < jim> no one ever heard of a gig of ram back then
23:45 < Cann0n> badsekter: yeah. i got lucky and missed that era by a year
23:46 < Cann0n> I mean, i had a hard time running KDE in 2000 with my hardware... then i started to learn how to optimize my kernel and whatnot
23:46 < jim> I could hardly start just an x server
23:48 < badsekter> what distro did you use back then?
23:48 < Cann0n> I had my sync rates all jacked up figuring out X... and eventually my monitor would "snap" at me and turn red until he blew something
23:49 < Cann0n> eventually i learned to use every spec i could find on every device to customize a kernel... that learning curve will filled with large amounts of mountain dew and pizza
23:49 < jim> badsekter, sls was the first one I had (and booted from floppy), slackware was the first one I installed
23:50 < badsekter> jim, slackware for me too, actually i used slackware throughout until i eventually converted to archlinux just two years ago or so
23:50 < jim> the lkml helped me figure out how to get my scsi card working with linux, I had to add a single line to the source and recompile
23:50 < Cann0n> im glad floppy's faded away... there was s light prayer each time i put a floppy in that my homework didn't get corrupt...
23:51 < jim> yeah, instead of floppies we have usb drives
23:51 < phogg> I remember the day someone paid by dad with an 8 MiB stick of RAM.
23:51 < jim> and sticks
23:51 < CoCo_Kid594> Hello all.. my question is what do you prefer to use to backup my very out dated server.. 10.04 Ubuntu to be exact.. I have used FS-Archiver before I  like but How do I go about it.. I have a Very Old Game server that has stuff compiled against current Lib. how can I preserve them libaries and test the latest update.  It is a Commerical Proliant.. it has built in Raid Array.. It has been a ver reliable for years.
23:51 < phogg> which was ~300 USD at the time
23:52 < quul> i miss disk media, nothing is satisfying about plugging in a usb
23:52 < Cann0n> ive failed a class because of a floppy disk... jokes on the teacher. He was "teaching" A+ and CISCO and didnt even know what how to plug in his own monitor.... needless to say, he lost in job because he failed me...
23:52 < jim> CoCo_Kid594, I haven't backed up your server yet :)
23:52 < Cann0n> phogg: it used to be about $10 a MB back then
23:52 < MrSleepy> is there a way to echo commands from a here document?
23:52 < Cann0n> no $1
23:53 < MrSleepy> I have a here document feeding into a program I wrote which works but it would be cleaner to see the commands being typed into the input of the program
23:53 < phogg> quul: I miss modem dialing noises, and also the sound of 5.25 and 3.5 drives initializing on boot
23:53 < jim> CoCo_Kid594, but, when I backed up mine, I would use tar for each of my partitions
23:53 < CoCo_Kid594> I want to see if my stuff will run on latest version.. The main reason for updating is SSL stuff doesnt want to run anymore hardly.  Can I use a live CD any mount my hard drive and run my server stuff.
23:53 < badsekter> for me the most satisfying thing in installing linux was getting the sound driver to work and listen to an mp3 on the console... i mean it was fascinating that it would work at all
23:54 < phogg> MrSleepy: not exactly, but set -x will echo *everything* before it is run
23:54 < quul> ahaha yeah that **grrrrnnnnncchhhh**
23:54 < MrSleepy> phogg, I'll give that a try thank you
23:54 < irwiss> phogg: doesn't sound shady at all, wonder if there's suddenly a server that's missing some ram :P
23:55 < jim> CoCo_Kid594, maybe, but I'd have to say that if you run older stuff on a newer dist of linux, you might run into some problems, because things do change
23:55 < phogg> irwiss: it wasn't shady, I am just fuzzy on the details of what it was for.
23:55 < badsekter> i had an amiga 500 before pc, and all my games were in floppy.. obviously because amiga did not even have a harddisk
23:55 < Cann0n> badsekter: YES... first time was magically... i had to get over that mouse hurdle
23:55 < badsekter> Cann0n: i think what was magic about linux was that it was working at all against all odds? :D
23:56 < jim> does amiga still exist?
23:56 < badsekter> jim, i think they went bankrupt as early as mid 90s
23:56 < phogg> badsekter: did you ever use a RiscPC? I never had the pleasure, but they looks damned fine.
23:56 < Cann0n> badsekter: yeah lol... in a dark room at 3am... trying to figure out command line via an outdated thrift store-bought linux manual
23:56 < CoCo_Kid594> Jim what do you use?  I really need to keep things intact incase things go amuck...  I'm thinking setting a remote linux backup.. I want to mostly backup the partition the way it is.  I'm thinking I may be able to fix it with .s0 libaries.
23:56 < badsekter> phogg: no, actually never heard of it
23:57 < jim> hmm... they had a better machine than the atari st
23:57 < pnbeast> Against all odds?  The GNU tools and even the kernel camp have a lot of motivated coders.  I'd lay better odds on Linux working than a commercial codebase of similar size.
23:57 < jim> CoCo_Kid594, generally rsync (which is a file copier)
23:58 < Cann0n> pnbeast: it was more of diving head first into shallow water in a sense of "i dont know what im doing" during the OG's of linux when they first installed a distro... pre-2000s
23:58 < Cann0n> Oh, i remember my first bash script... it didn't work....
23:58 < revel> Why?
23:59 < Cann0n> probably because it was my first one and i didn't know what a shbang was
23:59 < revel> Misunderstanding basic things, typo, no execute flag?
23:59 < jim> Tech_8, hmm... I just realized I never got to your question... but, I still have the question, what purpose would the machine you install it on have?
23:59 < badsekter> does anyone remember things like teardrop, boink, and others?
23:59 < Cann0n> hell that was 18 years ago... lol i doubt i could write one know. it's been 5 years since ive used a computer outside of work
--- Log closed Sun May 20 00:00:23 2018