--- Log opened Tue Jun 05 00:00:45 2018
00:00 < lnnb> BlueProtoman: have you tried to contact nvidia customer support?
00:03 < BlueProtoman> lnnb: I have not, but I want to try IRC first
00:03 < treefrob> BlueProtoman, you shouldn't expect much help from hard-core Linux people when it comes to using proprietary software, and in particular when such software is in the kernel
00:04 < leopard> BlueProtoman: I'm on arch so I'm not sure about ubuntu, but I use nvidia optimus through bumblebee, never had any issues
00:04 < BlueProtoman> treefrob: I've managed to get help on this matter before
00:05 < triceratux> BlueProtoman: was it working on 16.04 ?
00:06 < BlueProtoman> triceratux: I don't know, I haven't used 16.04 in ages.  I upgraded from 17.10.
00:06 < BlueProtoman> Wait, yes, it was working on 16.04, but that was with an older version of the nVidia drivers (because this was in 2016)
00:10 < may-day> can you crontab `speaker-test`? it does not make a sound for me
00:11 < triceratux> hrm well its not like it doesnt happen in the wild ... https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/1000340/cuda-setup-and-installation/-quot-nvidia-smi-has-failed-because-it-couldn-t-communicate-with-the-nvidia-driver-quot-ubuntu-16-04/4
00:15 < triceratux> looks kinda like an ubuntu problem http://www.archiveweb.space/652435/nvidia-driver-installs-but-does-not-load-on-ubuntu-18-04
00:20 < nekoseam> https://gitlab.com/
00:21 < triceratux> & the bionic bugtracker is blatantly oblivious https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+bugs?field.searchtext=nvidia
00:25 < bookworm> nekoseam: clap, clap, clap.... bugger off
00:26 < nekoseam> bookworm: microsoft fan i see
00:26 < nekoseam> I don't know why anybody would trust a company that has installed backdoors in its operating system since 1999 hosting their code
00:26 < eb0t> hey companies running lots of servers webservers fileservers email servers ..i can see them updating...but when a newer version of teh distro comes available ...do they bother upgrading ?
00:26 < bookworm> why the panic? not particularly but a) you are like the gazillionth person already posting that url and b) why the panic
00:27 < nekoseam> read what i said
00:27 < bookworm> oh... you can repeat what other people already said... very good
00:27 < bookworm> now bugger off.
00:27 < ayecee> advice can only be given away. it is never of use to oneself.
00:27 < eb0t> you from up north bookworm
00:28 < bookworm> "up north" is relative
00:28 < eb0t> england
00:28 < bookworm> nope
00:28 < nekoseam> bookworm: you feel comfortable with microsoft hosting your code?
00:28 < bookworm> but close
00:28 < triceratux> eb0t: sticking to an aggressive & ambitious upgrade schedule creates certain problems. but so does leaving ancient OSes in production. its a business choice, & all too often made the wrong way
00:28 < bookworm> nekoseam: as comfortable as a giant corporation like github, yes
00:28 < eb0t> ah ok triceratux...yes i was thinking it could be major risky ...either way
00:29 < bookworm> have you actually read the tos nekoseam ? if not do that now
00:29 < nekoseam> why. explain how microsoft wont completely shit on github like they did with linkedin, skype and hotmail
00:29 < nekoseam> GitHub was already garbage
00:29 < nekoseam> Now it'll only get worse
00:29 < bookworm> but it didn't yet, so stop the panic
00:29 < djph> I wouldn't say it was garbage (granted, the CODE on it might've been)
00:30 < nekoseam> I repeat the message I said 10 minutes ago. https://gitlab.com/
00:30 < djph> triceratux: you mean businesses use an aggressive and ambitious upgrade schedule?
00:30 < bookworm> nekoseam: which is itself a proprietary company...
00:30 < bookworm> at least mention gitea / gogs
00:30 < lnnb> screw gitlab, i'm putting my code on geocities
00:30 < nekoseam> Most of their code is open source
00:31 < bookworm> *most*
00:31 < nekoseam> yeah, most
00:31 < bookworm> so wayyy better than what we have now right...
00:31 < triceratux> djph: i mean its their choice. the biggest risk is being completely unprepared. youve got to move forward some day
00:31 < nekoseam> its better than not
00:31 < nekoseam> so yes
00:31 < nekoseam> it is way better
00:31 < bookworm> we can have *all* open source
00:31 < djph> usegit - a completely harebrained cross between local git and usenet.  It's terrible, no one do this :)
00:31 < bookworm> so the 2 projects I mentioned... now bugger off (tm)
00:31 < nekoseam> yeah we can. im not disagreeing with that
00:32 < djph> triceratux: hehe, I was just taking a stab at "which option" was the "bad idea" one :)
00:32 < nekoseam> "this man has a different opinion than me. i must tell him to leave!"
00:32 < djph> nekoseam: yup, get lost :P
00:32 < ayecee> would you like some wax for your cross
00:32 < djph> ... errr, wait
00:33 < djph> ayecee: maybe a burning torch?
00:33 < ayecee> i think that's a different kind of cross
00:33 < djph> ohhh
00:33 < bookworm> the whole day nothing but the same... you'd react the same
00:33 < voidling> what about uploading code to multiple git repositories if it's open source
00:33 < bookworm> LET'S LEAVE GITHUB RIGHT NOW
00:33 < nekoseam> No I wouldn't because I'm mature
00:33 < lnnb> yeah good idea bookworm
00:34 < ayecee> well, old at least.
00:34 < djph> voidling: that's a pain.  HOWEVER, if the git repos all talked to each other ... hmmm ...
00:34 < bookworm> voidling: or just use git as it was designed... it is distributed by its very nature
00:34 < nekoseam> GitLab's enterprise is what's closed source I believe. I have no problems with that
00:35 < lnnb> bookworm: problem is we have first world countries still engaged in port blocking
00:35 < lnnb> so self hosting isn't viable for many
00:35 < djph> the nice thing about gitlab (deal with it) was that it was relatively stable in terms of getting code -- didn't matter if it was a huge project, or some random one-man startup thing.  It all cloned at the same speed
00:35 < bookworm> I am living in a first world country
00:35 < bookworm> port 80 is almost never blocked
00:35 < lnnb> lucky u
00:35 < bookworm> china not being a first world country..
00:35 < djph> s/gitlab/github/
00:36 < ayecee> which side were they on?
00:36 < ayecee> first world was the WW2 allies, second world was the WW2 axis, third world were neutral
00:37 < voidling> also using a hosting service is useful for individual projects when you don't have a server you could use
00:37 < bookworm> 'first world' in the conversational sense usually means the "rich" countries
00:37 < bookworm> not necessarily the axis
00:38 < ayecee> s/axis/allies/
00:38 < triceratux> ah yer showing yer nato roots. to marxists 1st world is developed, 2nd world is developing, 3rd world is underdeveloped
00:38 < bookworm> s/axis/allies
00:38 < djph> ayecee: thought it was cold war -- NATO (first) Warsaw Pact (second), everone else (third)
00:38 < ayecee> could be
00:38 < nekoseam> If only the US stayed out of ww2
00:38 < djph> yeah, Germany would've won
00:39 < bookworm> ...
00:39 < ayecee> nekoseam: come on man
00:39 < revel> From software-related politics to politics+history :D
00:39 < bookworm> europe would be united... not quite sure that would be a good thing...
00:40 < ayecee> nekoseam: straight up flamebait.
00:40 < bookworm> at least not in this way
00:40 < bookworm> let's talk about something less touchy... emacs vs vim?
00:40 < revel> lol
00:40 < voidling> but the regime would have fallen eventually
00:40 < nekoseam> Sorry for speaking my political opinions. This is a Linux IRC
00:41 < revel> bookworm: nano
00:41 < voidling> I too am a nano peasant :D
00:41 < ayecee> ed ftw
00:41 < bookworm> fair enough, but *insert name of fork during gnu issue here*
00:41 < bookworm> micro?
00:41 < nekoseam> bookworm: sublime text and eclipse is obviously the only way to go
00:41  * nekoseam coughs
00:41 < nekoseam> no it isn't
00:41 < nekoseam> I use JOE
00:41 < bookworm> joe?
00:42 < nekoseam> JOE's own editor
00:42 < revel> It's an editor made after ed, I believe.
00:42 < ayecee> Just anOther Editor
00:42 < bookworm> he
00:42 < bookworm> let's limit the conversation to editors which +10 users :P
00:42 < bookworm> s/which/with
00:42 < leopard> joe isn't an obscure editor
00:42 < revel> It's got a package on Gentoo, at least.
00:43 < bookworm> everything got a package on Gentoo/Arch... that doesn't make it any good
00:43 < revel> With stable versions, even. So it can't be horribly obscure.
00:43 < revel> bookworm: Arch itself doesn't have an immense amount of packages, AUR does.
00:43 < bookworm> so, Arch?
00:44 < bookworm> even if it is unsupported, it still compiles to an Arch package
00:44 < bookworm> also not all PKGBUILDS are bad in the AUR, just most of them :P
00:44 < revel> I'm talking about main repos, not third-party ones.
00:44 < GunqqerFriithian> oh shit xset not only does mouse accel but can do LEDs this is gunna be fun
00:45 < Pentode> theres lots of little xlets to discover
00:46 < GunqqerFriithian> I'm slowly making a small script that I can load onto someone's computer to mess with them
00:46 < GunqqerFriithian> only slightly unethical
00:46 < Pentode> lol
00:46 < bookworm> this is why I lock my computer ;)
00:46 < Pentode> all in good fun, i used to love practical joking people at work.
00:46 < nekoseam> https://i.imgur.com/IXFL2Qc.png This is JOE
00:46 < GunqqerFriithian> this will prob be school computers running OS X
00:46 < nekoseam> Has a really clean layout
00:47 < bookworm> nekoseam: meh, so does any other editor, including nano
00:47 < GunqqerFriithian> should be easy to boot to single user and run an install script from USB
00:47 < djph> GunqqerFriithian: so, prtscr, hide all the desktop icons?
00:47 < nekoseam> nano is all bloat my friend
00:47 < Pentode> I like jed when i'm not using vim.
00:47 < bookworm> I like neovim/vim
00:47 < Pentode> though my go to serious editor has been sublime text for some time
00:47 < GunqqerFriithian> nah too obvious, djph
00:47 < bookworm> one of the last, not switching over to VS code Pentode ?
00:47 < GunqqerFriithian> I want mouse moving at different speeds/accelerating differently, maybe the screen locking
00:48 < Pentode> ;p
00:48 < GunqqerFriithian> and I want it hidden in such a way you can never, ever find it
00:48 < Pentode> im not in any way saying it's superior to vim but i find it comfortable when doing projects. it is a little expensive tho :/
00:48 < GunqqerFriithian> tiny process with no relavent name taking up almost no power at all
00:50 < bookworm> I like vim for it's modal editing (plus I like the mnemonics like w for word, a for append etc.)
00:50 < GunqqerFriithian> if anyone has suggestions for things that can be done on a computer running OS X plz share
00:50 < bookworm> I'm really looking forward to an editor integrating nvim properly
00:50 < bookworm> a GUI one I mean
00:50 < triceratux> GunqqerFriithian: install linux !
00:50 < voidling> booting from a flash drive ignores the login password requirement
00:50 < GunqqerFriithian> I need something that cannot be tied to me
00:51 < bookworm> voidling: what do you mean?
00:51 < GunqqerFriithian> and if someone finds something with linux on it everyone would instantly suspect me
00:51 < bookworm> for OSX?
00:51 < Pentode> oh i thought this was a practical joke. its starting to sound malicious..
00:51 < GunqqerFriithian> Oh it is
00:51 < voidling> bookworm: in case you meant setting password for securing your computer - it may not be enough
00:52 < bookworm> voidling: no, but encrypting my drive is ;)
00:52 < GunqqerFriithian> This is OS X from a school, boot into single user do what ever I want as root
00:52 < GunqqerFriithian> don't even need a live usb
00:52 < bookworm> locked down bootloader / bios... have fun
00:52 < GunqqerFriithian> lol already know they don't have that much security
00:52 < GunqqerFriithian> I've booted to a USB already and single user
00:52 < voidling> GunqqerFriithian: you could write a script which starts at boot time and randomly restarts the computer
00:53 < Pentode> GunqqerFriithian, CGWarpMouseCursorPosition() for quartz i think
00:53 < GunqqerFriithian> holy shit where's my notes window
00:53 < Pentode> i could be slightly off, i havent written anything in macos in a long time..
00:53 < GunqqerFriithian> just knowing it exists is good enough
00:54 < GunqqerFriithian> I think restart is too much, but sleeping could work
00:54 < Pentode> https://developer.apple.com/documentation/coregraphics/1456387-cgwarpmousecursorposition?language=objc
00:55 < nekoseam> Here's my ultra clean Debian Openbox setup https://imgur.com/a/GpGbzVV
00:55 < GunqqerFriithian> OMG this is gunna be so good
00:55 < Pentode> this is off topic so im gonna stop at that. im sure theres a macos dev channel on this network though
00:55 < GunqqerFriithian> ok, let's just talk about bash scripting in the same vein
00:56 < rascul> i wouldn't run bash scripts in my veins
00:56 < bookworm> nekoseam: relatively ugly... compared to r/unixporn at least
00:56 < bookworm> please get rid of the green tmux bar... I know it's the default but gosh
00:57 < GunqqerFriithian> bookworm: all r/unixporn shit is ugly due to how useless it is for real anything
00:57 < nekoseam> It's not green it's gold
00:57 < Pentode> it's not that bad
00:57 < bookworm> well if you remove the gaps from all the i3 configs they are pretty neat
00:57 < bookworm> gold? my monitors color config may be a bit off, but not that much
00:58 < Pentode> looks green here too
00:58 < GunqqerFriithian> Gaps? The hate I feel from them burns like a sun
00:58 < nekoseam> Odd
00:58 < nekoseam> I assigned it a gold-ish color in the config
00:58 < Pentode> like a pastelish green sortof thing
00:58 < bookworm> nekoseam: this is gold http://www.htmlcsscolor.com/hex/D4AF37
00:58 < Pentode> with a hint of neon
00:58 < bookworm> GunqqerFriithian: I agree
00:58 < nekoseam> Well I'm colorblind so what do I know
00:58 < GunqqerFriithian> yo what's with r/unixporn and anime
00:59 < bookworm> useless waste of space
00:59 < GunqqerFriithian> ^
00:59 < GunqqerFriithian> SO fucking true
00:59 < nekoseam> i3-gaps is utterly useless
00:59 < bookworm> not quite, the i3 stuff is pretty neat :P
01:00 < nekoseam> Gaps is
01:00 < nekoseam> regular i3 is meh
01:00 < bookworm> i3 is nice
01:00 < nekoseam> better tiling wms out there
01:00 < bookworm> why?
01:00 < bookworm> I mean what makes a "better" tiling WM?
01:00 < nekoseam> For one i3 is insanely bloated
01:00 < bookworm> bloated? o.O
01:00 < nekoseam> dwm does practically everything i3 does with less code
01:00 < bookworm> because it includes a bar?
01:00 < GunqqerFriithian> I use KDE so :p
01:00 < nekoseam> No that's a positive
01:01 < bookworm> it's nice to script due to it's interface... so that's something.
01:01 < compdoc> one can never be bloated enough
01:01 < bookworm> also sensible default layouts
01:01 < nekoseam> Well no matter what GNU/Linux is bloated thanks to GNU coreutils
01:01 < _unreal_> sup.... how could I go about setting up a BOOT system to boot dos/windows from a USB drive on a computer that doesnt support booting from USB hardrive?
01:01 < nekoseam> So go crazy
01:02 < GunqqerFriithian> just run headless if you don't want bloated
01:02 < bookworm> _unreal_: what do you mean by doesn't support booting from a usb drive
01:02 < nekoseam> I've been messing around with making 9front my daily driver
01:02 < GunqqerFriithian> who needs graphics anyways
01:02 < _unreal_> I have a computer called an eznet 2000 netplience.
01:02 < nekoseam> But the software included with 9front is shit. Especially their editors, all moused based instead of keyboard driven
01:02 < bookworm> _unreal_: if it runs linux, add a partion, install windows on it and boot?
01:02 < _unreal_> I'm wondering if I could setup a grub boot partition on the onboard 16MB yes megabyte flash drive that it has to get it to boot from a USB harddrive
01:02 < voidling> you could browse the web, watch videos and listen to music in tty, so no need for window managers :D
01:03 < GunqqerFriithian> 16MB? how do you have something that small??
01:03 < supernov3h> Is there a way to get a list of absolute paths from ldd $(which program), without the inclusion of the vdso library?
01:03 < _unreal_> bookworm, it can boot from a USB floppy drive and some usb cdrom's but thats about it
01:03 < supernov3h> or get an list of absolute paths to libraries required by a binary
01:03 < _unreal_> let me find a link so you know what I"m talking about
01:04 < nekoseam> btw girl in pic is elma from miss kobayashi's dragon maid
01:04 < GunqqerFriithian> WEEEEEEEEB
01:04 < bookworm> _unreal_: honestly that's probably over my head... I'm not into old computers
01:04 < GunqqerFriithian> Ahem what
01:04 < nekoseam> I'm more of a furry than a weeb. Which I guess is why I like Dragon Maid so much lol
01:04 < DLange> supernov3h: ldd /bin/true | grep -o "\(/.*\) "
01:04 < GunqqerFriithian> you say that like it's better
01:05 < nekoseam> (/.*\) <- looks like a person who is very shy
01:05 < GunqqerFriithian> ah I love it when plasmashell crashes
01:05 < GunqqerFriithian> well atleast it restarted itself
01:05 < bookworm> GunqqerFriithian: let me introduce you to i3 XP
01:05 < voidling> apparently you can grep emojis :D
01:05 < GunqqerFriithian> I dislike i3
01:06 < nekoseam> Xmonad is the only tiling wm I like
01:06 < nekoseam> I guess bspwm is okay too
01:06 < bookworm> he, Gnome :P
01:06 < bookworm> after all Ubuntu uses it so it has to be good, right?
01:06 < GunqqerFriithian> I dislike gnome more than I dislike i3
01:06 < bookworm> ^^
01:07 < GunqqerFriithian> and unity is fine, but eh
01:07 < nekoseam> I dislike pretty much everything that isn't pekwm, openbox, fluxbox, xmonad or bspwm
01:07 < bookworm> let me remove this option for you, because you anyway don't need it... NO YOU DON'T
01:07 < supernov3h> DLange: yea I'm capable of formatting output thanks, but I mean using ldd itself ><
01:07 < GunqqerFriithian> yeah gnome is "I think this is best for you"
01:07 < supernov3h> like is there undocumented behaviour etc
01:07 < bookworm> who want's to double click on executables, no one
01:07 < _unreal_> sorry for this being chines: its the first and only link I can find. https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.store.pchome.com.tw%2F%7Eprod%2FM02358354%2F_BB_A1_A9_FA2.jpg
01:08 < GunqqerFriithian> I don't even really use my desktop
01:08 < nekoseam> I'd use pekwm fulltime if it weren't programmed in C++
01:08 < _unreal_> https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.store.pchome.com.tw%2F%7Eprod%2FM02358354%2F_BB_A1_A9_FA2.jpg%3Fpimg%3Dstatic&t=1528153200&mas=300&ttl=300&sig=jGnHyH80zZ0gFcy8bkBb6w--~D
01:08 < GunqqerFriithian> although I do have one
01:08 < nekoseam> I aint clicking that shit
01:08 < bookworm> _unreal_: errors out for me
01:08 < DLange> supernov3h: yeah, do ldd --my-super-sekrit-flag   and it'll make coffee for you. Duh.
01:08 < _unreal_> its got an x86 geode 200mhz CPU, 32mb ram, 16mb flash onboard
01:09 < bookworm> omg, 32 megs... what do you do with all the spare?
01:09 < nekoseam> The new ThinkPad P52 has been leaked :D
01:09 < nekoseam> (ThinkPads are extremely popular with Linux)
01:09 < bookworm> also, they are fucking bricks
01:09 < _unreal_> I can boot it to dos. there was a lot of stuff done with it years ago on, there are a few small linux builds for it and I do have the iso images yes 16mb in size
01:09 < nekoseam> ThinkPads and Toughbooks are for people who want to get stuff done
01:09 < GunqqerFriithian> 32mb ram? how fast is it?
01:09 < bookworm> my laptop is maybe a third of the thinkpad regarding its thickness
01:10 < _unreal_> GunqqerFriithian, I already said its speed
01:10 < nekoseam> With 32mb of ram I'd install 9front without rio
01:10 < GunqqerFriithian> of the ram?
01:10 < ayecee> laptop is thicc
01:10 < nekoseam> My X230 is one step below thicc
01:10  * _unreal_ palm to face
01:10 < nekoseam> I like the more spaced out keys though
01:10 < _unreal_> its got an x86 geode 200mhz CPU, 32mb ram, 16mb flash onboard
01:10 < nekoseam> _unreal_: install gentoo
01:11 < nekoseam> It'll only take about a week
01:11 < GunqqerFriithian> My setup: https://i.imgur.com/NTMkwmq.png (Ignore the stuff on the left above the first screen that's just how it takes screenshots with two screens)
01:11 < bookworm> more ram than flash... now that's something unusual
01:11 < nekoseam> very nice GunqqerFriithian
01:11 < GunqqerFriithian> Very functional
01:11 < _unreal_> so what I'm asking is how could I setup a linux boot partition that will let it boot from a USB device. it says it can boot from USB hd but I have never been able to get it to boot from a USB hd??
01:11 < bookworm> GunqqerFriithian: Ubuntu?
01:12 < _unreal_> just usb cdrom and usb floppy drives
01:12 < GunqqerFriithian> Ubuntu 16.04.04 LTS with KDE5 Plasma and KWin
01:12 < _unreal_> oh and zip drive but I dont have one
01:12 < leopard> _unreal_: burn a cd then?
01:12 < nekoseam> https://i.redd.it/oybjnk2u6b111.png
01:12 < bookworm> GunqqerFriithian: update :P
01:12 < nekoseam> PekWM setup
01:12 < bookworm> 18.04 is out no?
01:12 < GunqqerFriithian> too much space
01:12 < GunqqerFriithian> 18.04 is, but not 18.04.01
01:12 < _unreal_> leopard, I want to boot to a grub I guess that will allow it to boot from a USB hd...
01:12 < bookworm> and you need the point release why?
01:13 < _unreal_> I can only run win98/dos or linux on it.
01:13 < GunqqerFriithian> I like waiting before upgrading for stuff like OS
01:13 < _unreal_> and old stuff at that. but I just want to play with it
01:13 < nekoseam> I'm seriously considering using CRUX as my daily driver recently
01:13 < bookworm> isn't ubuntu pretty stable?
01:13 < leopard> why CRUX?
01:13  * epicmetal pulls up a chair and waits for nekoseam's story
01:13  * nekoseam drinks a sip of coffee
01:13 < bookworm> after all the stuff has been beta tested by gentoo / arch / fedora already
01:13 < GunqqerFriithian> I run latest stable for most, then latest LTS for anything critical, and bleeding edge for stuff I feel like
01:13 < _unreal_> the problem is that there is no IDE port inside that I can get to. and I maped out 90% of the IDE wires but some dont have test pads :(
01:14 < nekoseam> First of all CRUX uses ports for package management
01:14 < GunqqerFriithian> Also I'm too lazy to do a full backup rather than the incremental I currently do daily
01:14 < nekoseam> It also is a fixed release model, which I like
01:14 < nekoseam> It's source based
01:14 < nekoseam> Has no dependency resolution (can be added)
01:14 < nekoseam> A ton of packages in repos (snes9x, qutebrowser, ranger, irssi, ect.)
01:14 < bookworm> GunqqerFriithian: what do you use as a backup solution? rsync?
01:15 < GunqqerFriithian> deja-dup
01:15 < nekoseam> And has no USE flags
01:15 < nekoseam> It uses SysV which I dislike, probably will replace it with runit or s6
01:15 < bookworm> systemd \o/
01:15 < nekoseam> tl;dr fast minimal source based distro
01:15  * bookworm runs away
01:15 < GunqqerFriithian> `sudo kill -9 -1`
01:15  * GunqqerFriithian runs away
01:16 < epicmetal> nekoseam: what about le gentoo
01:16 < GunqqerFriithian> install gentoo
01:16 < bookworm> watching hours of text scrolling by, fun for the whole family
01:16 < leopard> nekoseam: it sounds like a grass is greener situation. no dependancy resolution? no thanks
01:16 < nekoseam> Gentoo is slow. Not because its source based but because Portage is a monster of code
01:17 < nekoseam> Dependency resolution
01:17 < nekoseam> blegh
01:17 < GunqqerFriithian> `du -bch /` if you want slightly meaningful scrolling text
01:17  * nekoseam will probably install prt-get anyways
01:17 < leopard> how does Portage slow your system down?
01:17 < nekoseam> For one it's written in Python
01:17 < _unreal_> ever sence the net aplences website went down (iapliences.net or what ever its called a lot of the references to my little toy computer have vanished..... the only references to them is with archive.org
01:17 < nekoseam> 2 because its codebase is huge
01:18 < bookworm> python isn't always bad, especially if the main functionality is anyway in c
01:18 < bookworm> and python is just a wrapper around it
01:19 < bookworm> so in essence python != slow
01:19 < nekoseam> forgot the "*"
01:19 < GunqqerFriithian> I wonder, does anyone use a non-monospaced font for console usage?
01:19 < nekoseam> fuggin q key
01:20 < _unreal_> ?
01:20 < _unreal_> hum
01:20 < _unreal_> bookworm, did you ever mess around with an iopener?
01:20 < voidling> bookworm: do you mean using cython or calling native c programs?
01:20 < BlueProtoman> How can I boot Linux headless from GRUB once?  (I don't want to reconfigure my boot process or anything, just want to do a one-off task)
01:21 < bookworm> voidling: both
01:21 < koala_man> BlueProtoman: does it not already have a timeout to boot the default entry?
01:21 < _unreal_> BlueProtoman, serial terminal
01:21 < GunqqerFriithian> can you not use the bios to boot from USB?
01:21 < GunqqerFriithian> or what ever*
01:21 < bookworm> take pandas for example, most of the actual functionality is in c or c++, but the interface to interact with is is plain python. best of both worlds
01:22 < _unreal_> bookworm, ?
01:22 < bookworm> _unreal_: no
01:22 < _unreal_> ahh
01:22 < BlueProtoman> _unreal_: What?  No, not an option, I have a perfectly good computer and I want to use it without a GUI for a little while
01:22 < BlueProtoman> koala_man: Not what I'm asking about
01:22 < nekoseam> So an 8chan anon made a website dedicated to informing users about software that spies on you. The ratings aren't very accurate and makes a big deal about some small things but even RMS linked to some of its articles https://spyware.neocities.org/
01:23 < _unreal_> BlueProtoman, the only way to use a computer with out gui is with a pre-scripted functions OR SSH or a serial terminal
01:23 < GunqqerFriithian> does your computer have a bios that you can open?
01:23 < koala_man> BlueProtoman: you want to run it headful, just without X.org?
01:23 < nekoseam> Not sure if I should link the thread because, well, it's 8chan
01:23 < _unreal_> koala_man, ya I am not sure what he wants
01:23 < BlueProtoman> koala_man: Yes, that's probably a more accurate description of what I want.
01:23 < _unreal_> so you WILL have a monitor plugged into it?
01:23 < koala_man> BlueProtoman: have you considered just booting as normal and switching to a VT with ctrl-alt-F1?
01:23 < bookworm> BlueProtoman: don't install X, issue solved
01:24 < BlueProtoman> bookworm: I'm not here to debate the merits of X.
01:24 < bookworm> or boot into single user mode if you want a oneshot
01:25 < _unreal_> BlueProtoman, we are here trying to comprehend what your plan, your idea of function is?
01:25 < bookworm> ^
01:25 < _unreal_> HEHE
01:25 < _unreal_> :)
01:25 < hassoon> (:
01:25 < _unreal_> BlueProtoman, answer one question. is there going to be a computer monitor plugged into this computer that you dont wnat X on?
01:25 < _unreal_> yes or not
01:26 < voidling> oh wow, firefox seems to be with a high spyware level :/
01:26 < bookworm> voidling: they wanted to do some pretty interesting experiments... in the last they wanted to mess with your dns
01:26 < bookworm> iirc
01:26 < _unreal_> BlueProtoman, ?
01:28 < _unreal_> would grub direct the computer to boot DOS or win98 from a usb harddrive?
01:29 < _unreal_> I guess he gave up
01:30 < BlueProtoman> _unreal_, bookworm, koala_man: Well, I *really* want to install nVidia drivers, but that requires that X isn't currently running
01:31 < leopard> what distro are you running?
01:31 < _unreal_> ?
01:31 < koala_man> BlueProtoman: That doesn't sound right. What's claiming this?
01:31 < bookworm> BlueProtoman: then kill X, switch to a virtual tty and install it?
01:31 < BlueProtoman> leopard: Ubuntu 18.04
01:32 < bookworm> how? the software center?
01:32 < bookworm> or via apt?
01:32 < BlueProtoman> koala_man: The nVidia drivers available here http://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/133859/en-us
01:32 < bookworm> apt shouldn't care
01:32 < _unreal_> BlueProtoman, go to 3rd party drivers
01:32 < strange> hey guys noob questions i want to replace all occurences of "| string |" in a file to "| otherstring |" from commandline how would i do this in sed or tr whatever i try the file messes up replacing all sorts of stuff i dont know how to escape the | or the space properly i think
01:32 < _unreal_> its part of the GUI to install nvidia drivers in linux
01:32 < BlueProtoman> _unreal_: Yes, I already enabled the third party drivers, but I still have problems using my nvidia card.
01:33 < bookworm> strange: sed s_| string |_stuff_g
01:33 < _unreal_> explain
01:33 < BlueProtoman> I'm trying to use the nvidia drivers on Ubuntu 18.04, with a nVidia GeForce GTX 860M via Optimus.  Although `prime-select query` outputs `nvidia`, nvidia-smi fails with "NVIDIA-SMI has failed because it couldn't communicate with the NVIDIA driver. Make sure that the latest NVIDIA driver is installed and running."  I can't use CUDA as a result, and my graphics are being drawn with my Intel chip.  How can I fix this?
01:33 < strange> bookworm: is "stuff" the new string?
01:33 < _unreal_> BlueProtoman, this is a core2quad with an gt960
01:33 < nekoseam> Try not using Ubuntu
01:33 < bookworm> strange: yes
01:33 < koala_man> BlueProtoman: you can install first party drivers through apt
01:33 < _unreal_> on ubuntu
01:33 < BlueProtoman> koala_man: I did, and yet I'm still going nowhere.
01:34 < leopard> BlueProtoman: did you try 'sudo modprobe nvidia' first?
01:34 < _unreal_> koala_man, did you tell him about second party drivers ;)
01:34 < BlueProtoman> _unreal_: My CPU is a i7-4810MQ
01:34 < _unreal_> :P
01:34 < bookworm> strange: quote the whole shebang in '' to make bash ignore the |
01:34 < BlueProtoman> leopard: No, lemme try that.  What does it do exactly?
01:35 < leopard> loads the nvidia module into the kernel
01:35 < strange> bookworm: sed: -e expression #1, char 2: unterminated `s' command
01:35 < BlueProtoman> leopard: The command succeeded, but nothing seems to have changed.
01:35 < nekoseam> try devuan ceres
01:35 < _unreal_> BlueProtoman, ok so your problem is that your loading intel video drivesr NOT nvidia
01:35 < leibniz> n
01:36 < BlueProtoman> _unreal_: Appears to be the case, but prime-select disagrees
01:36 < bookworm> strange: echo 'this is | some | test' | sed 's_| some |_other_g'
01:36 < leopard> BlueProtoman: you need this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bumblebee
01:36 < BlueProtoman> leopard: I already have it, the daemon is running right now
01:36 < strange> bookworm: the quoting worked :)
01:36 < strange> thanks
01:37 < leopard> then to use the nvidia driver you need to run 'optirun command'
01:37 < _unreal_> BlueProtoman, some one else can prob give a better answer. but you may want to remove the NVIDIA drivers. and re-install them. currently your prob not loading the nvidia moduales
01:37 < leopard> where command is the program you're trying to run
01:37 < _unreal_> modules
01:37 < leopard> example, 'optirun glxgears'
01:37 < BlueProtoman> leopard: primus: fatal: failed to load any of the libraries: /usr/lib/nvidia-current/libGL.so.1:/usr/lib32/nvidia-current/libGL.so.1
01:38 < _unreal_> leopard, provided glxgears is installed on his system
01:38 < BlueProtoman> It is
01:39 < leopard> sounds like you're missing a piece of the puzzle
01:39 < BlueProtoman> leopard: Clearly, but I don't know what
01:39 < leopard> but that's the error you should be working from
01:39 < _unreal_> BlueProtoman, what are you logging in under? as far as users
01:39 < _unreal_> and GUI
01:39 < BlueProtoman> _unreal_: My own account, and with MATE
01:40 < twainwek> wtf does ubuntu auto update by default?
01:40 < _unreal_> twainwek, in gui yes
01:40 < _unreal_> unless you disable or adjust the settings to your liking
01:40 < twainwek> what is this? windows? terrible
01:41 < revel> twainwek: I think Debian does too, now.
01:41 < _unreal_> its 18.04 lts..... get with the times..... :) big toothy grin
01:42 < leopard> BlueProtoman: read through this thread, should solve your problem https://github.com/amonakov/primus/issues/178
01:42 < _unreal_> BlueProtoman, libGL.so.1 thats your modules
01:42 < _unreal_> your not even loading the nvidia drivers
01:42 < leopard> _unreal_: it looks like his driver is loaded or else primus would have failed on that first
01:42 < BlueProtoman> _unreal_: .so files are not kernel drivers
01:43 < leopard> BlueProtoman: figure out where ubuntu installed those libgl libs and symlink them to where primus expects them to be
01:43 < BlueProtoman> First I'm gonna re-install the official packages, then I will read through the thread you linked
01:43 < syb0rg> given that ubuntu is a noob friendly distro, having security updates auto install by default is a good choice
01:44 < syb0rg> and unlike windows, you can disable or configure it :)
01:44 < leopard> but from this point, #ubuntu is probably a better bet. just tell them you're having trouble with your bumblebee setup
01:45 < twainwek> and i see unity or gnome3 or whatever the heck it is still sucks since 2010
01:45 < GunqqerFriithian> gnome sucks
01:45 < GunqqerFriithian> unity isn't that bad
01:45 < twainwek> where the heck is the taskbar
01:45 < BlueProtoman> Lemme reinstall the drivers then reboot, then I will try the thread you linked
01:45 < GunqqerFriithian> taskbar?
01:45 < twainwek> the bar that shows minimized windows
01:46 < syb0rg> I think those show up in the dock on the left?
01:46 < GunqqerFriithian> on unity it should be with the bar wheee ever it is by default
01:46 < GunqqerFriithian> I peronally had it on the left with it autohiding
01:46 < BlueProtoman> twainwek: Clearly you're in a bad mood.  When that rash on your ass goes away, I suggest you try MATE
01:46 < supernov3h> what's the 64 bit equivalent to the files matching the glob /etc/ld.so.conf.d/*.conf
01:46 < GunqqerFriithian> I personally switched to unity
01:47 < GunqqerFriithian> unity
01:47 < GunqqerFriithian> Im not thinking
01:47 < GunqqerFriithian> KDE plasma
01:47 < bookworm> unity is dead, long live unity
01:47 < twainwek> yea i'm in a bad moon. im trying to get shit done and they have made their desktop user friendly to 12 year olds on tablets
01:47 < syb0rg> to be clear unity *is* dead, right?
01:47 < bookworm> yes
01:47 < GunqqerFriithian> holy shit you're more cynical than me
01:47 < bookworm> they switched to gnome 3
01:48 < GunqqerFriithian> sadly
01:48 < bookworm> indeed
01:48 < TBotNik> All: On Kubuntu 16.04 LTS and cannot get my printer to install on CUPS.  Are Pantum 2500 on USB and Brother MFC 7360N on the LAN.  Downloaded the .deb files and installed but drivers never show in CUPS
01:48 < TBotNik> Neither of the .deb installs produce the required .ppd file, but had installed correctly on 14.04
01:48 < _unreal_> BlueProtoman, https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=161152
01:49 < _unreal_> GunqqerFriithian, I knew I should have taken that bet
01:49 < _unreal_> more cynical
01:49 < GunqqerFriithian> like I am a very cynical person, but damn :L
01:49 < _unreal_> TBotNik, are the modules loaded?
01:50 < _unreal_> if so do you have the correct IP
01:50 < TBotNik> _unreal_: Explain "modules"
01:50  * _unreal_ palm to face the drivers
01:51 < syb0rg> TBotNik, modules are bits of software that run in the kernel to give it specific functionality
01:51 < TBotNik> _unreal_: No they never show in CUPS though I thuroughly follow the howtos and the Mfg directions
01:51 < syb0rg> they are modular, thus: modules
01:51 < _unreal_> less /proc/modules
01:53 < _unreal_> if you know the name of the driver: lsmod |grep module-name
01:53 < TBotNik> _unreal_: Do I pastebin that?
01:53 < _unreal_> I have to start getting dinner for my child geting late
01:53 < _unreal_> TBotNik, sure
01:54 < _unreal_> lol
01:55 < TBotNik> _unreal_: https://pastebin.ca/4037411
01:57 < TBotNik> _unreal_: Not seeing anything "brother", "pantum" or "printer"
01:58 < TBotNik> _unreal_: Guessing then the "installs" did not actually work
01:58 < twainwek> ok sorry i think im too bad of a mood to try to tolerate this thing while trying to be productive. gonna take a break
02:00 < TBotNik> _unreal_: OK will look around for install alternatives on this and see if I can find the right way to install these drivers
02:01 < TBotNik> _unreal_: Thnx!
02:20 < Pentode> twainwek, unity will put anyone in a bad mood, lol.
02:20 < supernov3h> So if /etc/ld.so.conf.d only describes 32 bit libraries, how do I discover where 64 bit ones lie
02:22 < Pentode> /lib64, /usr/lib64?
02:22 < revel> supernov3h: It describes 64-bit ones for me as well. And the 64-bit ones should have fairly similar names, usually with just a bit of s/32/64/
02:22 < revel> Oh, no, I have both 32-bit and 64-bit lib locations in /etc/ld.so.conf , the file.
02:23 < Pentode> supernov3h, are you sure you are running a 64bit environment?
02:24 < supernov3h> Pentode: absolutely
02:24 < supernov3h> Pentode: yes I know those are the folders, but I want to dynamically discover them, I'd rather not have them as magical entries
02:27 < Pentode> not sure what you mean. what is in /etc/ld.so.conf.d? you can add the locations there or in /etc/ld.so.conf if they aren't showing up
02:30 < supernov3h> Pentode: do you not understand because of the language or because of something else
02:31 < supernov3h> I'd like to be able to know that /lib64 exists and that the system believes it exists and searches for it where it is, based on the system telling me that's how it does it, or by examining the same resource it examines
02:36 < twainwek> so kubuntu is ubuntu (i.e. all ubuntus official repos) with kde?
02:37 < syb0rg> yes
02:37  * iflema and imagemagic
02:37 < twainwek> sold
02:37 < syb0rg> good choice :-)
02:37 < twainwek> time to rm -fr this thing and overwrite it with zeros and pretend it never happened
02:40 < iflema> that reminds me plasma on kubunutu freezes on my system after a short time... same with arch
02:40 < iflema> never did lokk into it
02:40 < twainwek> nvidia?
02:40 < syb0rg> iflema, probably baloo
02:40 < iflema> probably
02:41 < iflema> nouveau
02:41 < supernov3h> So what defines where lib64 is
02:41 < syb0rg> turn that POS immediately is step number one of installing plasma
02:41 < syb0rg> *off
02:41 < iflema> there both shit if you hadnt noticed
02:41 < iflema> intel
02:41 < twainwek> i run kde+opensuse on my main machine and i've never had any issues
02:41 < iflema> same same
02:41 < Pentode> supernov3h, /etc/ld.so.conf.d/ and /etc/ld.so.conf
02:42 < syb0rg> opensuse disables baloo by default
02:42 < iflema> not main but yeah
02:42 < syb0rg> I believe
02:42 < iflema> its only a recent than
02:42 < supernov3h> Pentode: but they're not in there
02:42 < twainwek> hmm i thought i manually disabled baloo
02:42 < Pentode> supernov3h, you can either add it to the /etc/ld.so.conf or make a new .conf in /etc/ld.so.conf.d/
02:42 < Pentode> so put em there
02:42 < supernov3h> Pentode: do you speak English as a first language?
02:42 < syb0rg> could be wrong twainwek , I thought I heard that somewhere yesterday or the day before
02:42 < iflema> the file index is fine
02:42 < Pentode> are you trolling me?
02:42 < iflema> old news
02:42 < revel> supernov3h: Why do you keep asking that?
02:43 < supernov3h> revel: because he doesn't understand mine
02:43 < Pentode> you don't make sense
02:43 < revel> Then explain what he's not understanding instead of insulting him.
02:43 < supernov3h> I'm not insulting him
02:43 < revel> Maybe you're just not explaining what you mean very well.
02:43 < supernov3h> How the hell does linux discover /lib64 when it's not present in freaking /etc/ld.so.conf.d, I said it a million times
02:44 < supernov3h> is it prescribed somewhere that all patterns matching some definition of a 32 bit folder have a 64 bit counterpart or something
02:44 < Pentode> you add /lib64 to /etc/ld.so.conf.d/ i explained two lines above
02:44  * iflema wfc
02:44 < kerframil> no. it's entirely up to the distro.
02:44 < supernov3h> Pentode: BUT ITS NOT IN THE FILE ALREADY
02:44 < revel> It's possible for ELF files to have this data embedded as RPATH or RUNPATH data.
02:45 < revel> I believe.
02:45 < revel> In dynamic sections.
02:45 < leopard> multilib is handled differently by each distro
02:45 < Pentode> ok i give up. good luck.
02:46 < revel> Not really sure though.
02:46 < supernov3h> revel: in which case the definition of that folder structure comes from the binaries themselves I see
02:46 < revel> supernov3h: Well, it's a possibility, but my binaries don't have that.
02:46 < revel> You should be able to check with `readelf -d`, I guess.
02:47 < revel> Also, did you remove the 64-bit parts from ld.so.conf yourself?
02:47 < supernov3h> yeah I have done and the library linking is not path based, its based on the name of the library
02:48 < supernov3h> revel: no, this is 14.04 and it never had them
02:48 < windsurf_> Does linux (debian) reboot after it freezes? I'm trying to establish whether or not my device restarted itself after the (unexplained) garbage line or if a user would have cut the (battery) power switch and turned it back on again. Can you tell if it's a boot vs restart?
02:48 < windsurf_> https://pastebin.com/FyC9ZrUY
02:49 < windsurf_> btw, after a start/restart the clock is wrong until my RTC module is loaded then time is system time corrected so you can ignore that it goes backwards in time after the garbage
02:49 < revel> Not sure then.
02:52 < iflema> windsurf_: full debian or some iot respin?
02:53 < iflema> windsurf_: check the kernel configuration
02:53 < iflema> PANIC
02:57 < windsurf_> iflema iot
03:00 < supernov3h> is /libe64 the only 64 bit objects folder
03:00 < supernov3h> typo*
03:01 < Pentode> sometimes /usr/lib64 and /usr/local/lib64
03:01 < iflema> objects
03:02 < bookworm> b/go ccc
03:03 < Fieldy> anybody happen to know what the little network manager in xfce4 is called? i thought it was just... network manager. however I don't see the icon, and there's no options to add anything related to networking to the xfce panels
03:04 < leopard> its called network monitor
03:04 < Fieldy> hm
03:04 < leopard> if you right click the panel, Panel -> Add New Items
03:04 < Fieldy> yeah. i'm not seeing it. which is why i'm baffled
03:05 < Fieldy> i've always seen it in otherinstalls
03:05 < Fieldy> xfce4-netload-plugin - network load monitor plugin for the Xfce4 panel   close but not as such
03:06 < leopard> wait are you looking for a network manager for managing your connections?
03:06 < leopard> I just have a usage bar
03:07 < Fieldy> yeah it's the standard manager... i just don't see it as an option to install on a panel
03:07 < Pentode> its called network manager applet
03:08 < Fieldy> ok let me poke around the package manager
03:08 < Pentode> i think it's actually a gnome utility isnt it?
03:08 < leopard> do you actually have network manager installed?
03:08 < Pentode> network-manager - network management framework (daemon and userspace tools) and network-manager-gnome - network management framework (GNOME frontend)
03:08 < Pentode> are the two i see
03:09 < Fieldy> yeah maybe it's missing the later. network manager is certainly installed, it's running (ps auwx)
03:09 < Fieldy> sec
03:10 < Fieldy> test
03:11 < Fieldy> already installed heh
03:12 < Fieldy> the xfce4 on this feels.... incomplete
03:12 < Pentode> hmm
03:12 < leopard> what distro
03:12 < Fieldy> mint 19 xfce
03:12 < Fieldy> oh crap this is a beta. i'm sorry
03:13  * Fieldy redfaces
03:13 < Pentode> maybe it shows up in the notification applet?
03:13 < Pentode> you may have to right click that and add it separately as apposed to a panel applet
03:13 < Fieldy> true maybe newer versions do it different
03:14 < Fieldy> oh well it is in a VM, i can just take snapshots while it's on and install random crap till it works and go back lol
03:17 < supernov3h> is there a way to search all your ppas for pacakges by which libraries they'll install
03:17 < aaro> Fieldy: you got the systray? that's where the applet shows up
03:19 < Fieldy> aaro: i mean i see some icons n junk. let me see if there's a systray thing i can add
03:19 < Pentode> yeah thats what i was thinkin
03:20 < Pentode> theres a network manager option in session and startup that i see too
03:20 < Fieldy> wow. this xfce install seems to be msising a ton of stuff
03:20 < Pentode> the tooltip calls it "nm-applet"
03:20 < Muimi> Can someone talk to me about changing my admin password a bit?
03:21 < Muimi> I went in to change my password, and the command registered as a success....
03:21 < Fieldy> Pentode: hrm i will search
03:21 < Muimi> Rebooted into the OS, and I couldn't log in using that password.
03:22 < Fieldy> nm-tray - simple NetworkManager front end
03:22 < Fieldy> that sounds promising
03:23 < Fieldy> oh its a kde thing. pulls in tons of qt junk. meh
03:23 < Pentode> Muimi, what process did you go through exactly, to change the password?
03:23 < Pentode> maybe you are right and that xfce installation is wacky
03:24 < Pentode> the network manager applet usually runs by default on most systems i've installed
03:24 < revel> Fieldy: nm-applet, maybe.
03:24 < Pentode> i almost _always_ use xfce
03:24 < Pentode> though i dont use the applet usually
03:24 < revel> Since that's what it's called here.
03:24 < Pentode> yeah same here
03:25 < Fieldy> revel: yeah wasn't able to find anything like it. then i searched for anything in repos starting with "xfce", didn't find anything close other than a network load monitor. but there is something called xfce-goodies that i'm installing...
03:26 < revel> I don't think nm-applet is specifically an xfce thing.
03:27 < Pentode> no i think it's a gnome applet actually. but it runs in the notification try, which i believe is compatible with some gnome applets.
03:27 < Fieldy> well that installed among other things, wavelan. close but no cigar, it's just for wireless. yeah let me do some more repo searching, might be called something else
03:27 < revel> In fact, the description says it's a GNOME applet.
03:28 < Fieldy> yeah I installed the networkmanager-gnome-whatever, yet sitll can't find it anywhere... goofy
03:28 < Pentode> did you try looking in the notification try instead of the panel applets?
03:28 < revel> Well, did you try adding it to the notification area?
03:28 < Pentode> damn a key too, arg.
03:28 < Pentode> i need a new keyboard ;|
03:28 < revel> Or, uhh.
03:28 < revel> Running nm-applet, that is.
03:29 < Fieldy> revel: there's nothing to add, when i go to add applets, the only network related anything is a monitor
03:29 < Fieldy> ah on command line. sec
03:29 < revel> You run nm-applet to get it there.
03:30 < Pentode> oh yeah, i see it on this machine now. that works.
03:30 < Fieldy> you're right; nm-applet is a command. however running it isn't bringing up anything that I can see
03:30 < Fieldy> it exits silently
03:30 < Fieldy> heh i've been using xfce for over 10 years, i've never seen this screwiness
03:30 < Pentode> hmm
03:30 < Pentode> when i run nm-applet it pops up in my notification try
03:30 < Fieldy> hrm
03:31 < revel> Well, that's exactly what you have to run to get it there. Or have xfce run it on startup, of course.
03:31 < Fieldy> maybe i don't even HAVE a notification tray sec
03:31 < revel> lol
03:31 < revel> Yeah, you need one for it to pop up in.
03:31 < Fieldy> that was it... there wasn't one! what in the world
03:31 < Pentode> we've only said notification tray 50 times. ;p
03:32 < Fieldy> yeah i was looking at something else. and confused, because i just copied my entire home directory over to this new install... i've never had issues in 10+ years doing that and just having xfce just work
03:32 < Fieldy> gonna fling it for a reboot (since i was using dhclient to get an addy... lol)
03:33 < Pentode> yeah once in a blue moon xfce _has_ flaked out on me, though usually it has something to do with the menu and these lousy menu editors.
03:33 < Fieldy> true
03:33 < Fieldy> it's this fine balance of minimalism with a few useful things... but sometimes they are screwy
03:33 < Pentode> most of the time it's 99.9% stable for me
03:34 < Fieldy> yeah same here, this is why i'm really surprised
03:35 < revel> It's 100% stable 90% of the time :D
03:35 < Pentode> ;p
03:36 < shalok> Where can I get a description of all the counters in `ethtool -S`?
03:39 < nekoseam> UwU hewwo
03:39 < xenon-> hi. in bash, how can I echo a string without \n appended to the end?
03:40 < Drakonan> hmm so i may have a problem...
03:40 < revel> xenon-: echo -n
03:40 < Drakonan> i feel like this is macgyver... i have an espresso bin a micro sd card and a desktop
03:40 < revel> Or, alternatively, use printf
03:40 < Drakonan> is there any way i can get an os on this thing without an sd card reader on the desktop?
03:41 < cmj> xenon-: printf
03:41 < xenon-> thanks!
03:46 < xenon-> I want to simualte "Doing some task .... DONE" thing. is there a built in way to do that, or do I have to do it myself with printf etc (maybe also a flush?)
03:51 < xenon-> can I pass commands to functions as arguments?  I want to write a function performTask.  performTask "refreshing fstab" "mount -a"   should print "refreshing fstab ...." and after "mount -a" is completed it should print "DONE"
03:54 < jim> xenon- I don't think you can do that in shells (at least I don't know of a shell where you can)
03:55 < pankaj> Do I have to use a login manager with window manager for using GUI feature or their is another way around (May be a lightweight login manager). I have a window manager installed but most of the login manager are heavy and I do not have much time to download.
03:56 < revel> You could probably just use startx.
03:58 < pankaj> revel: I will try when the window manager is installed. Ya, I just forgot I could do that. Thanks.
04:00 < pankaj> revel: But, on my host OS, I really want to use a very light weight login manager. Is their any command based login manager like an ncurses type interface. It looks geeky.
04:00 < revel> Not that I'm aware of.
04:00 < xenon-> jim eval seems to work. there are probably some gotchas with it, but it did what I expected for this sipmle code. https://lpaste.net/2781418742125428736
04:01 < kerframil> xenon-: do *not* use eval
04:01 < kerframil> xenon-: http://termbin.com/m1xg
04:02 < kerframil> xenon-: consider also joining #bash and checking out the resources in the topic
04:03 < xenon-> kerframil thanks. looks good
04:04 < xenon-> kerframil, I am curious though, what makes eval bad in this case?
04:04 < kerframil> xenon-: /msg greybot !eval
04:10 < Code4Dopamine_> Hi all, is it ok to ask questions regarding how to create a bootable linux OS usb drive on the go?
04:10 < ayecee> hard to tell if you don't ask
04:11 < Code4Dopamine_> ;P i'm just a little confused (either i'm not doing it right..) cuz most of them is to get a bootable usb disk that's meant for loading the OS on new computer
04:11 < Code4Dopamine_> However, i want one where I can bootup from any PC, and what I do (from booting using that Linux drive) there can be saved on the same USB drive
04:12 < [R]> Code4Dopamine_: just do a normal install to the usb
04:13 < Code4Dopamine_> is it possible to do it on a windows? (as i'm not how to "install linux OS" on a flash drive, like do I need to do something with the drive first to emulate a standard disk?)
04:14 < jim> Code4Dopamine_, maybe, if a dist has an installer that runs in windows... and if not, you'd have to boot an installer
04:15 < Code4Dopamine_> like right now all i know is rufus (and there are some website like pendrivelinux.com, which i'm not sure if it's doing the same thing as rufus? or actually creating the OS install on the usb?)
04:15 < lnnb> what did you tried
04:16 < [R]> step 1 book the installer
04:16 < [R]> step 2 install with the installer
04:16 < [R]> step 3 profit
04:16 < [R]> boot*
04:16 < Dreaman> boot but bios
04:17 < Dreaman> farst is usb stick
04:17 < Code4Dopamine_> hmm ok, so i guess i'll go searching on how to get the flash drive to be the bootable drive then. Cuz if i remember correctly on ubuntu, it didn't show up that option? (Might have to recheck)
04:17 < Dreaman> i use 10 and ubuntu
04:17 < Dreaman> dual boot
04:18 < Dreaman> install usb and rufus
04:18 < Code4Dopamine_> Actually... now that I think of it.... I would need to have 2 USB disk right? 1 loaded with the Boot Image (.iso), and 1 as the drive to boot? it can't be installed on the same USB?
04:18 < [R]> of ourse you can't instal lto the usb you are booting from
04:18 < Dreaman> my is 4 gb
04:18 < Dreaman> for ubuntu is ok 2 gb
04:19 < Dreaman> but rufus 3 not good for my
04:19 < Dreaman> see old version
04:21 < Code4Dopamine_> i see gotcha.. (lol didn't think it through) but over here, someone got it to work just by following the normal installation process right?
04:22 < Code4Dopamine_> Like, i assume a normal USB (even if NTFS) can be detected and setup as a bootable disk for linux?
04:22 < [R]> you can't install linux to ntfs
04:23 < Mead> linux and ntfs aren't friends and barely on speaking terms
04:23 < Code4Dopamine_> ohh, so i probrably should format my USB disk first to ext4 then... (i was hoping for the installer .iso to do it for me :P)
04:23 < [R]> of course it will format it
04:23 < Mead> the ISO should have the file system already
04:26 < nekoseam> "Join to ##linux was synced in 1 secs"
04:26 < nekoseam> Sweet
04:26 < Code4Dopamine_> hmm.. i'm also wondering, do i must do it with bios reading the USB? or can I just use Windows to mount and run the Linux OS.iso, and do the installation while i'm on Windows?
04:27 < [R]> step 1 pick a dist step 2 read their installation instructions step 3 profit
04:27 < Code4Dopamine_> (sorry for even mentioning windows here :P...)
04:29 < nekoseam> I always come back to Debian :P
04:29 < vGaks> hi
04:29 < nekoseam> vGaks: hi
04:31 < vGaks_> i just installed ubuntu 18.04, it has ati driver installed but i dont have opencl
04:31 < [R]> vGaks_: that sounds unfortunate
04:32 < vGaks_> i went and uninstall fglrx and tried to install the driver from ati site
04:33 < vGaks_> it give error when building dkms for kernel but opencl is working wtf -.-
04:33 < vGaks_> how can i get this thing going?
04:40 < fraktor> I'm having some problems with lightdm on a fresh install of fedora. Whenever I try to log in as my regular user, it just kicks me out again (black screen for a while, then back to the login). However, it works fine when I log in as root.
04:40 < fraktor> I'm thinking it might be some leftover configs (since I kept my home partition). How should I start looking for the culprit?
04:41 < Drakonan> anyone know if there is a way i can use this MARVELL>> prompt with my desktop and an sd card to get an os on this thing?
04:42 < Drakonan> apparently im using u-boot or im in a u-boot... interface
04:43 < [R]> Drakonan: what?
04:44 < Drakonan> i have an espressobin with an empty sd card that is booted in to a prompt of some sort
04:44 < [R]> a what?
04:44 < Drakonan> im trying to see if i can figure out a way to copy an image to the sd card to boot an os
04:44 < [R]> step 1 put sdcard in computer step 2 copy files step 3 profit
04:44 < Drakonan> U-Boot 2017.03-armada-17.10.2-g6a6581a-armbian (Mar 13 2018 - 08:31:14 +0100)
04:44 < Drakonan> aarch64-linux-gnu-gcc (Linaro GCC 7.2-2017.11) 7.2.1 20171011
04:44 < Drakonan> What does that mean?
04:44 < [R]> what does what mean
04:45 < Drakonan> What I just sent that is the beginning of the prompt
04:45 < [R]> it means its uboot
04:45 < Drakonan> [R], i can't seem to find my readers sadly
04:45 < Drakonan> ok i wasn't sure with the armbian what that meant exactly
04:45 < [R]> it means whoemever compiled it put that at the end of the version string
04:46 < Drakonan> i see some commands for copying to an sd card so i wonder if there is something to download off of... tftp or the net or something to get the binaries on to it
04:46 < Drakonan> oh crap there is a tftpboot if all else fails
04:47 < Drakonan> and there is a usb boot as well i could do that actually come to think of it
04:47 < Drakonan> im going to need to image the sd card from the espressobin sadly
04:48 < Drakonan> i guess i could do that huh boot a usb install/er and install to the sd card
04:50 < Drakonan> im kind of worried that this board is failing though it just apparently... rebooted maybe?
04:50 < [R]> that sounds unfortunate
04:51 < supernov3h> is there a reason sudo getent gshadow is empty
04:51 < Drakonan> i dont have any foundation to build on
04:51 < Drakonan> so im not sure of anything
04:52 < [R]> supernov3h: if you get a root shell and run it, does it work?
04:52 < Drakonan> it keeps on repeating is this normal: https://pastebin.com/AuBZQHn6
04:52 < [R]> "it"?
04:53 < supernov3h> [R]: nope still empty
04:54 < [R]> supernov3h: sounds like you broke something good
04:54 < supernov3h> Weird because this is virtually new
04:54 < Drakonan> the espressobin during bootup is just scrolling this text
04:54 < supernov3h> it just has postfix/dovecot on it
04:54 < Drakonan> it brought me to a marvell prompt eventually not sure what was different or what changed
04:56 < Mead> I need some help trouble shooting a list of issues I have with a linux install, I'd appreciate help fixing them https://pastebin.com/RKiwgRST
04:56 < Drakonan> does any of that text make any sense to anyone?
04:56 < [R]> Mead: if you have a problem, ask it
04:57 < Drakonan> well it finally booted to the marvel prompt again idk if thats normal or not
04:57 < Mead> [R]: the problems are listed in the pastebin link,
04:57 < [R]> Mead: or, you could just tell us your probblem
04:58 < ayecee> nah, that would feel like cheating
04:58 < Mead> [R] you want me to just paste the contents of that pastebin in here?
04:59 < [R]> not if its a mile long
04:59 < ayecee> tbh, when someone says they described their problem in a pastebin, i automatically assume that it's going to be some long rambling mess.
04:59 < [R]> if you have a question, ask it
04:59 < ayecee> that's going to take longer to read than it will to solve
04:59 < Drakonan> here is a fuller example: https://pastebin.com/8Y6CqHNJ
05:00 < twainwek> ok i installed kubuntu... same kernel as ubuntu i had, but the guest addition for kubuntu doesn't work
05:00 < Mead> alright,  I'll reformat it for IRC but it will be a wall of text
05:00 < ayecee> nah, don't bother then
05:01 < [R]> pretty sure i said "not if its a mile long"
05:01 < twainwek> any ideas?
05:01 < [R]> twainwek: "doesn't work" you say!?
05:01 < twainwek> anyone besides this guy
05:01 < ayecee> twainwek: "doesn't work" you say!?
05:01 < Mead> my problems are listed in this pastebin https://pastebin.com/RKiwgRST can anyone help me fix any of it?
05:02 < ayecee> Mead: it would not appear so.
05:02 < twainwek> ayecee: yup. no shared folders, no clipboard sharing, no video scaling
05:02 < twainwek> same install on the ubuntu vm worked fine
05:03 < ayecee> i see
05:05 < iflema> github name change - do you see this
05:06 < twainwek> time to move to gitlab
05:07 < iflema> twainwek: i did in 2015
05:07 < supernov3h> so why would getent ghsadow fail to find the gshadow file? I can easily cat it, when I Add users (with usergroups enabled) it gets updated...
05:08 < ayecee> supernov3h: is it listed in /etc/nsswitch.conf ?
05:09 < supernov3h> shadow is, gshadow isn't
05:09 < supernov3h> I guess that's it then?
05:09 < ayecee> that would be why
05:09 < ayecee> mine has a line "gshadow: files"
05:10 < lnnb> i hate that stuff, and the file you need to have set up right for ping to work
05:10 < lnnb> probably that file
05:13 < vGaks_> hello, i just installed ubuntu 18.04 again, how do i get opencl runing?
05:13 < Happyhobo> antergos has no support
05:13 < vGaks_> cant find anything usefull on the web
05:15 < lnnb>  ahah! /etc/protocols
05:17 < twainwek> all distros should learn a thing or two from opensuse. no nonsense. install. get to work
05:17 < ayecee> i suppose i don't see a lot of people in here with suse problems
05:18 < twainwek> only time i had issues with it was with their arm build
05:18 < n-iCe> really?
05:18 < n-iCe> I have never tried suse
05:19 < gm152> BTRFS but I have longed stopped using that filessytem.
05:19 < gm152> s/longed/long/
05:19 < twainwek> btrfs is not really suse specific though. you can use or not
05:19 < Pentode> i used to use opensuse all the time. never did me wrong either.
05:22 < Celmor> what's the difference between unlink and rm? they appear to behave the same (if not used with options and on files)
05:23 < ayecee> that's pretty much the difference there
05:23 < Celmor> so why whould I ever use unlink? doesn't seem to have any functional options
05:23 < ayecee> unlink merely calls unlink() and yolos. rm has more options.
05:24 < ayecee> i don't know
05:24 < ShapeShifter499> hi
05:24 < Celmor> thanks
05:24 < ShapeShifter499> if 'noauto' is in a fstab entry but I mount it later is fsck still ran ?
05:25 < ayecee> no
05:27 < swift110> hey
05:27 < ShapeShifter499> ayecee: ah ok
05:27 < lnnb> hay
05:28 < nikki_s-00> could someone please help: i pressed control c while installing google chrome. when i try to install a package now, gdebi says "E:the package google-crhome-stable needs to be reinstall, but i can't find an archive for it." i am using ubuntu!
05:29 < lnnb> ohhnoooooo
05:29 < [R]> nikki_s-00: sudo dpkg -i thegooglechrome.deb
05:30 < nikki_s-00> [R], thank you!!
05:30 < nikki_s-00> sheesh :)
05:31 < nikki_s-00> ls
05:31 < Loshki> nikki_s-00: and /var/cache/apt/archives
05:33 < nikki_s-00> hm
05:55 < thatpythonguy> I need help with mpd/ncmpcpp
05:56 < thatpythonguy> ncmpcpp is constantly paused, and won't resume with enter or p
05:56 < thatpythonguy> apparently its a problem with my audio output settings in my mpd.conf
05:57 < thatpythonguy> but i can't figure out how to fix it
06:02 < quint> I have a windows share that's mounted on my debian 9 machine. The windows machine is often shut down, which causes things like ls on the mountpoint to completely hang the terminal I'm issuing it on.
06:03 < quint> Is there a mount option that will soften the effect of the windows machine being offline?
06:12 < lord|> why does /dev/full exist
06:14 < [R]> why not?
06:14 < theraspberry> quint: you may want to set the 'timeo' value on mount and set it to something short so that when it does timeout it only will hang for a short amount of time.
06:15 < jim> what's /dev/full?
06:15 < Pentode> lord|, its like /dev/zero
06:15 < Pentode> its a device thats "always full" of zeros...
06:16 < Pentode> what its really good for.. hell if i know. ;p
06:17 < kerframil> for injecting ENOSPC errors
06:18 < ayecee> not full of zeros per se
06:18 < ayecee> just full
06:18 < Sitri> /dev/zero when written to acts as /dev/null.  /dev/full when written to will return the disk full error.  /dev/zero and /dev/full will behave the same when red from.
06:18 < ayecee> ah
06:19 < ayecee> so it _is_ full of zeros
06:19 < Pentode> well it has to be pseudo full of _something_ ;p
06:19 < Pentode> or nothing
06:19 < Pentode> or.. oh whatever
06:19 < Pentode> im having a tea i've got a headache
06:19 < ayecee> getting deep into metaphysics there :D
06:19 < Pentode> lol
06:20 < quint> theraspberry: I'll give it a whirl
06:22 < Jari--> hi
06:24 < Jari--> buying 82 eurcent cola today
06:24 < Jari--> 1,5l
06:24 < Jari--> returning gets 40 eurcent
06:26 < rud0lf> it's time to make cola open source!
06:39 < trhr> if I put 2 PCs inside 1 tower is it fair to tell the ladies that will inevitably flock to me that I have a 7 Ghz computer?
06:40 < Triffid_Hunter> I did that with a couple of living room servers back in the day.. worked great, looked terrible ;)
06:40 < Stryyker> no
06:42 < oiaohm> trhr: there is a cube computer case for workstation that takes 2 motherboards so you can  interconnect to have a 8 chip computer.  Yes 4 xeon per motherboard plus interconnect.
06:42 < oiaohm> trhr: but that thing is fairly expnesive.
06:45 < trhr> oiaohm: yeah... it's not unlike me to turn this "drill holes and add standoffs" project into a $5k spend.
06:52 < RayTracer> trhr: you probably can put more GHz in one case if you fill it with raspis
06:55 < trhr> RayTracer: that's how I made this a Xeon in the first place.
06:55 < RayTracer> lol
07:16 < [R]> oh crap
07:16 < [R]> i think i accidently fork bombed myself
07:24 < bipul> Fork bomb?
07:25 < jim> bipul, it's an exploit which is a way to exhaust the process table... no one here is going to show you the code for a forkbomb, because it's considered destructive code, and so isn't permitted
07:26 < bipul> okay thank you.
07:26 < jim> welcome
07:35 < revel> I don't think it's really much of an exploit...
07:35 < revel> Unless you're bypassing some resource limits or something along the way, that is.
07:39 < jim> revel, it's usually pretty annoying for the bombee and funny to the bomber
07:40 < revel> So is hitting the power button on a computer while someone's using it, but I wouldn't really classify that as an exploit either :P
07:41 < trhr> honestly, if you cant learn how to execute a fork bomb on your own, you should just power down and take up yoga.
07:41 < Evidlo> why is it so hard to find the compression level of a gzip archive?
07:49 < Pentode> gzip uses 9 by default so this is what id guess it'd be most of the time. isn't that good enough? :P
07:54 < pnbeast> I think you can either know the compression level or the actual data in the archive, something like that, so having the archive precludes knowing the compression level.  It's the original piece of Heisencode.
08:03 < Abbott> I have a big directory full of stuff I want to go through and clean up. I like the prompt style for deleting stuff with rm -ri, but is there a way to just delete a directory I am prompted with instead of having to descend into the directory and delete every file individually?
08:05 < pnbeast> You have good backups, right?  rm -rf <target dir> should work.  I imagine the -i still works but don't know.
08:07 < Abbott> rm -rf dir removes dir, but I was hoping to do something like rm -rf huge_directory/* and then instead of having to delete everything in huge_directory/other_directory/* individually, just remove huge_directory/other_directory and everything in it when prompted
08:10 < jim> is it that you want to delete most of huge_directory except for one dir full of files and dirs?
08:16 < trhr> yeah that's a really confusing question. you can either sudo chmod -r a-w the directories to keep or rm -rf the directories to delete, depending on which you have more of, i guess.
08:21 < trhr> or a better chmod might even be +i, immutable, which probably wouldn't even screw up your underlying permissions (if those are a concern)
09:00 < Triffid_Hunter> Abbott: something like for F in huge_dir/*; do echo "Delete $F?"; read; if [ $REPLY == "y" ]; then rm -r "$F"; fi; done perhaps
09:06 < michaelrose> hey question so hibernate works normally on a minimal install of funtoo linux, which is a fork of gentoo. process is thus mkswap on /dev/sdc1 set resume=/dev/sdc1 in grub.cfg. Works perfectly. run cryptsetup on the same drive and mkswap on the resulting /dev/mapper/cryptswap which is presently is using a keyfile
09:07 < michaelrose> set resume=/dev/mapper/crytpswap in the same place. pm-hibernate and it hibernates but does normal startup
09:20 < michaelrose> actually fixed grub.cfg I get this now trying to hibernate /usr/lib64/pm-utils/pm-functions: line 321: echo: write error: Device or resource busy
09:24 < geirha> Abbott: for dir in huge_directory/*/; do rm -Ir "$dir"; done
09:28 < epicmetal> Anyone else notice that MATE panel doesn't register clicks at the window edge for certain applets? It's killing me
09:28 < epicmetal> s/edge/edge or screen corner/
09:31 < kurahaupo> Abbott: find /hugedir -mindepth 1 -maxdepth 1 -okdir rm {} ';'
09:31 < kurahaupo> Oh, rm -r of course
09:33 < epicmetal> Actually, I think it's mate-panel itself that is at fault
09:38 < MrElendig> -delete
09:40 < geirha> -delete doesn't do recursive deletion
09:51 < MrElendig> solved by just dropping maxdepth, the amount of unlink() calls will be the same anyway
09:51 < Dagmar> I bet it would for twenny bucks
10:05 < hehehe> hehe
10:05 < hehehe> who is awake?
10:05 < revel> I think I am.
10:06 < hehehe> cool
10:06 < hehehe> I wonder were can I find some music
10:07 < hehehe> to recall email I used some time ago for one online application
10:07 < hehehe> :)
10:07 < hehehe> I played a green card lottery and I am yet to recall email used lol
10:07 < hehehe> or maybe write some bot to try all possible combos
10:14 < alwyn> Hi, I'm looking for some advice with regards to logrotate. I have an application that by itself makes a logfile per day, with the date in the filename. Unfortunately it does not compress or remove them after a set amount of time. I am not sure if and how I can accomplish this with logrotate myself.
10:15 < MrElendig> logrotate supports wildcards
10:16 < MrElendig> you can do /var/log/herpaderp/foo-*.log { ..... }
10:16 < alwyn> I know that, yes. But wouldn't it leave the existing files?
10:17 < screwsss> uh.. is github *only* for linux?
10:17 < alwyn> screwsss: no, why would it be
10:17 < screwsss> i dont get how to download stuff lol
10:17 < screwsss> im a retarded
10:17 < MrElendig> yes, only the linux kernel is on gh
10:17 < MrElendig> screwsss: click the green download button
10:17 < MrElendig> or better, use git
10:18 < MrElendig> can also click "# releases" to get a specific release
10:19 < screwsss> i see....
10:19 < screwsss> so theres nothing for windows on there IOW?
10:19 < MrElendig> there are a lot of things on there that runs on windws
10:19 < MrElendig> windows*
10:19 < MrElendig> including visual code
10:19 < MrElendig> you know, that thing microsoft wrote
10:19 < MrElendig> .net is on there too
10:20 < MrElendig> vscode*
10:20 < jim> screwsss, have you used git before?
10:20  * MrElendig thinks screwsss is confused by the lack of .msi/.exe installers
10:20 < alwyn> screwsss: what do you want to accomplish?
10:20 < pnbeast> screwsss, do you have a Linux question?  You know this is an IRC channel about Linux, right?
10:21 < MrElendig> (or just a troll)
10:22 < screwsss> no i just wanted to know how to use github
10:22 < MrElendig> github have docs you know
10:23 < pnbeast> I imagine github has information about that.  This channel isn't the howto manual for a commercial website.  You might get introductory help with git.
10:23 < screwsss> and i did figure that this channel was for linux
10:23 < jim> you use it with git, you can use git to get projects, and also to manage projects
10:23 < MrElendig> https://help.github.com/
10:23 < screwsss> pnbeast: you mustve missed my original question
10:23 < screwsss> im not reading 30 pages to get the answer to a simple question: is github just for linux users
10:23 < jim> no
10:23 < MrElendig> screwsss: that was already answered
10:23 < michaelrose> github is a repository for source code, instructions for building software not finished already built software
10:24 < michaelrose> its a place for creators to share said instructions and collaborate on improvements to said instructions
10:25 < jim> git lets you have many programmers who work on the same code
10:25 < nekoseam> don't use github though
10:25 < nekoseam> use something like gitlab
10:25 < michaelrose> screwsss, essentially the kind of person who asks questions like yours is in the wrong place
10:26 < screwsss> so i have to compile it myself
10:26 < screwsss> im always passed along cant you just help me
10:26 < jim> michaelrose, that's not going to be helpful... but, your other responses were
10:26 < adrian_1908> screwsss: there's a #github channel, best ask there.
10:26 < michaelrose> screwsss, I don't think you have actually clarified what you want help with
10:27 < michaelrose> jim, I'm not being a dick someone who wants a house doesn't want to know where to find lumber at home depot he wants the local real estate office
10:27 < jim> the one open question, is "how to use github"
10:27 < iflema> git
10:27 < jim> michaelrose, didn't say you were
10:28 < screwsss> is compiling hard
10:28 < michaelrose> I thought this was a really good tutorial about git
10:28 < jim> sometimes
10:28 < screwsss> and do you know *where* I can find some lumber
10:28 < michaelrose> https://learngitbranching.js.org/
10:28 < revel> Depends.
10:28 < MrElendig> screwsss: we can't help you when you refuse to help yourself and to accept our help
10:29 < MrElendig> there is no helping those that refuse to read the documentation given them
10:29 < jim> which is a communication issue primarily
10:29 < michaelrose> building software is normally easy. It involves reading the instructions provided with each repository and doing exactly what it says
10:29 < screwsss> that doesnt tell me where the lumber is
10:29 < MrElendig> screwsss: at the lumber store
10:29 < screwsss> wheres the lumber store
10:29 < MrElendig> google will find some close to you
10:30 < screwsss> whats google
10:30 < michaelrose> ok just trolling then
10:30 < MrElendig> ok, so you are just a troll
10:30 < screwsss> sorry.. im just being a pain now.
10:30 < jim> screwsss, do you write stuff? c programs, perlpython scripts, shell scripts?
10:30 < screwsss> but honestly if someone didnt know what google was that would be potentially legit
10:30 < screwsss> so git is like
10:30 < screwsss> when you run a web get command
10:30 < screwsss> and then when you git it you got it
10:31 < jim> it can be, but that's not what it really does
10:31 < screwsss> theres a lotta great things on git
10:31 < MrElendig> screwsss: you were given a link that explains every one of your questions so far
10:31 < jim> screwsss, what git does, is it keeps track of changes in programs
10:31 < MrElendig> I suggest you read it
10:32 < bipul> I have a file that contains 1000 lines of text, a kind of logs. I want to see the text between 501 to 610 lines ? How it would be possible?
10:32 < jim> screwsss, that is true,,, you should at least pull up the page
10:33 < MrElendig> bipul: man sed
10:33 < MrElendig> awk would also work
10:33 < apsknight> How can I keep my server running in my CentOS virtual machine without keeping terminal open.
10:33 < bipul> Humm.. let me try with sed
10:33 < igflavius> bipul man tail
10:33 < screwsss> so theres a whole tutorial to this git thing
10:33 < MrElendig> sed is nicer than head + tail
10:33 < jim> the stuff git does is very helpful, it lets you make a change to code, ahd then comment on that change. the change and the comments are saved
10:33 < MrElendig> sed -n start,endp
10:34 < screwsss> oh that sounds advanced but would be better if you knew and understood coding
10:34 < screwsss> which i ostensibly dont
10:34 < MrElendig> the p is not a typo
10:34 < apsknight> bipul: igflavius: screwsss: MrElendig: Could you please help me. I have posted my question above.
10:34 < pnbeast> bipul, for something that small and with only around 90 lines, I'd just open it (read-only) in vim, then jump to the first line and start reading.
10:34 < jim> screwsss, do you want to?
10:34 < MrElendig> lol
10:34 < screwsss> "It's a lot to take in, but for now you can think of commits as snapshots of the project. Commits are very lightweight and switching between them is wicked fast!"
10:35 < screwsss> jim: yes
10:35 < screwsss> my friend taught me the basics of swift code
10:35 < screwsss> but i just need to change the way i think i think
10:35 < pnbeast> screwsss, what does "ostensibly" mean?
10:35 < screwsss> apparently
10:36 < jim> screwsss, howbout you start with a scripting language?
10:36 < pnbeast> Close, but not quote the standard definition...
10:36 < jim> wanna do that?
10:36 < pnbeast> *quite
10:36 < screwsss> you mean like remote scripts in mirc
10:36 < screwsss> i understand that a little actually. im no ultra expert tho
10:37 < MrElendig> screwsss: http://bit.ly/23X7emF
10:37 < alwyn> Do you not need to know how to code to use or learn to use git or github
10:37 < jim> or local scripts you can run on the machine in front of you (and yes, irc scripts too)
10:37 < alwyn> How did I mess that sentence up.... s/Do you/You do
10:37 < MrElendig> you just have to know how to copy/paste
10:37 < MrElendig> and click green buttons
10:37 < jim> alwyn, it helps...
10:38 < alwyn> But it's not required at all :)
10:38 < jim> screwsss, the scripts can be used for anything, they don't have to be used with irc, but they can be
10:39 < jim> alwyn, no, it's not
10:40 < screwsss> ill check that out when I get back. tbh if theres 1 language i wanna learn atm it'd probably be java (as in, android apps)
10:40 < iflema> go jim
10:40 < jim> alwyn, you can still get the concepts without knowing how to code
10:41 < jim> screwsss, howbout also python?
10:42 < jim> screwsss, in fact howbout starting with python? I have something you can learn from, and it's perfect for brand new programmers
10:43 < MrElendig> java is not a good language to learn first
10:43 < MrElendig> it will damage you for life
10:43 < jim> java is a little tough to be a first language, that's true
10:43 < pnbeast> MrElendig, oracle's not going to move you to the top of the hiring list with that attitude.
10:44 < MrElendig> pnbeast: most people try to get away from oracle, not getting hired by them
10:44 < jim> well I dunno about all that :) I do know python is a better first language
10:44 < MrElendig> pnbeast: as shown by what happened to openoffice and mysql
10:44 < sauvin> I *could* learn Java, except... well... it's an abomination.
10:45 < MrElendig> only ones willingly working for oracle are lawyers
10:45 < pnbeast> I remember thinking how nasty Sun was then being mildly surpised that someone worse ate 'em.
10:45 < sauvin> Sun was nasty?
10:45 < MrElendig> yes
10:45 < iflema> sauvin: java
10:45 < MrElendig> both outwards and internally
10:46 < pnbeast> Sun was quite nasty.
10:46  * MrElendig knows a former sun employee that was literally blackmaied into continuing working for them
10:47 < MrElendig> she was told that they would make sure she never got another job if she quit, and that they would sue her for breach of contract and corporate espionage
10:48 < sauvin> Sounds like I'm not the *only* ex-engineer who's an "ex" for a reason.
10:49 < MrElendig> not even an engineer, she worked in after-sale support for SUN in norway
10:49 < MrElendig> she was basically the person who would take the support request, say "sure we will get right on it", and then file it in the trashcan
10:49 < MrElendig> that was how she described her job anyway :p
10:51 < MrElendig> originally worked for clustra systems iirc
10:52 < MrGrz> hi
10:52 < ixxie> Morning; I am trying to setup a service which uses PAM + realmd to grant access to AD users
10:52 < ixxie> the logs reveal: pam_keyinit(login:session): Unable to change GID to 1002 temporarily
10:53 < ixxie> Any advice on how to debug this?
10:53 < chchjesus> Microsooooooooft!
10:55 < jim> MrGrz, hi
10:57 < jim> ixxie, I dunno, I never debugged a pam service setup before... but, I'm curious: what is required before you can change your gid?
10:58 < ixxie> jim: don't ask me, I have no clue xD
10:58 < jim> ok, the answer -could- be, you'd have to be root
10:59 < jim> but I'm not sure that's the only way
11:03 < Artemis3> So... all your github are belong to Microsoft...
11:04 < iflema> yep
11:04 < iflema> probably
11:06 < notmike> jim: I just survived an encounter with a coyote in my back yard
11:07 < Artemis3> "Microsoft Acquires GitHub For $7.5B"
11:07 < iflema> says it all
11:07 < iflema> what a waste
11:09 < revel> notmike: How much !mike leg did he get to eat?
11:09 < iflema> let rake up 8
11:11 < notmike> He ran off like a lil bitch. But my cat was out there
11:15 < Tech_8> hi
11:17 < Tech_8> good morning
11:17 < iflema> Tech_8: plenty here, ask away
11:18  * iflema that looks nasty
11:26 < chchjesus> To be honest, you should probably host your own git server anyway
11:26 < iflema> like kernel.org
11:26 < bn_work> if 2 users are part of the same group with rwx perms, and as u2 I create a symlink to a folder in u1's profile, why does the link show up as broken?
11:27 < jim> if you do that you don't really need all the fancy web wizbang... but you could have it with gitlab
11:29 < MrElendig> bn_work: namei path/to/file
11:29 < MrElendig> bn_work: the group probably doesn't have rx on the $HOME of u1
11:30  * MrElendig prefers gitea over gitlab
11:31 < chchjesus> kernel.org uses cgit don't they?
11:31 < chchjesus> Is that an alternative or just part of it?
11:31 < MrElendig> runs on almost anything, single binary to deploy
11:31 < MrElendig> chchjesus: it is an alternative if all you want is git
11:31 < MrElendig> and don't care about issue trackers, wiki, etc etc etc
11:32 < bookworm> MrElendig: do you happen to have a pkgbuild ready for it?
11:32 < azarus> chchjesus: cgit is a webinterface for exploring git repos
11:32 < azarus> used by git.kernel.org, yes
11:32 < azarus> (and many others)
11:32 < MrElendig> bookworm: I don't do "system wide" installs of "webapps" like that, I run then from /srv
11:32 < MrElendig> that is probably just me though
11:33 < bookworm> so git clone the repo there and build locally?
11:33 < MrElendig> it is probably in aur already
11:33 < azarus> depends, maybe your httpd is chrooted
11:33 < MrElendig> yea
11:33 < bookworm> yes, although that looks kinda interesting
11:33 < CryHard> Hey there guys
11:33 < bookworm> the pkgbuild that is
11:33 < azarus> (httpd in a chroot is always a good idea)
11:33 < chchjesus> https://mirrors.edge.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v6.x/
11:33 < MrElendig> gitlab is imo just too heavy for simple personal use
11:34 < azarus> MrElendig: agreed
11:34 < chchjesus> azarus: Nah just run it out of your home directory /s
11:34 < chchjesus> Put it in a subdirectory and then just use chown to protect it
11:34 < CryHard> I have a question regarding wget. I tried using wget to download a wiki site. The command that I used is as follows:
11:34 < CryHard> wget --user-agent="Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_11_6) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/66.0.3359.139 Safari/537.36" --user=vladola --ask-password --no-check-certificate --recursive --page-requisites --adjust-extension --span-hosts --restrict-file-names=windows --domains wiki.com --no-parent wiki.com --no-clobber --convert-links --wait=0 --quota=inf -P /home/W
11:34 < azarus> GET /supersecret/porn/23123.png
11:34 < azarus> 200 OK
11:35 < CryHard> The problem with this is that wget "pushed" some buttons on the wiki
11:35 < CryHard> and e.g made wiki changes
11:35 < MrElendig> CryHard: quite a few wikis have a saner way to get the data
11:35 < CryHard> or reverted changes
11:35 < MrElendig> like a proper api
11:35 < CryHard> or made me watch pages
11:35 < CryHard> I guess it's because wget visited a "button" page or something
11:35 < CryHard> is there a way to avoid this?
11:35 < Tech_8> hi
11:36 < MrElendig> other than that: scrapy
11:37 < MrElendig> if you don't want to host yourself, bitbucket is somewhat underrated
11:37 < MrElendig> the new ui is pretty nice
11:37 < azarus> it also supports mercurial, so it's nice
11:37  * MrElendig is not a fan of hg at all
11:37 < MrElendig> also hg is pretty much dead now
11:37 < azarus> there was just release 4.6
11:37 < MrElendig> even got forked due to inactivity
11:38 < azarus> eh, I like it almost as much as I do git
11:38  * azarus shrugs
11:38 < azarus> I do use git more as it's more prevalent
11:38 < tdsm> emm,hi there
11:39 < tdsm> i'm new here
11:39 < jim> hi
11:39 < jim> welcome
11:40 < tdsm> so the channel is worldwide
11:40 < tdsm> right?
11:40 < azarus> yes
11:40 < tdsm> amazing
11:41 < azarus> just like the internet is worldwide ;P
11:41 < theraspberry> alians may also be watching this chat!
11:41 < azarus> (except maybe china)
11:41 < jim> probably... but, we've selected english as the official language that everyone should use
11:41 < tdsm> i've never seen anyting like this before
11:41 < jim> until now :)
11:41 < tdsm> yeah!
11:41 < tdsm> feel cool
11:41 < MrElendig> perkele
11:42 < azarus> prepare for lots of bikeshedding and flamewars
11:42 < jim> well we try to avoid that when we can
11:42  * Armand locks azarus in the bikeshed
11:42 < tdsm> well
11:43 < tdsm> i have poor english
11:43 < tdsm> i have to use this with google
11:43 < jim> no, I can understand you fine
11:43 < tdsm> to translate
11:43 < tdsm> really?
11:43 < jim> yep
11:43 < MrElendig> tdsm: sidenote: I suggest getting a less shady irc client
11:44 < tdsm> i got some confidence
11:44 < tdsm> just a little
11:44 < MrElendig> instead of a spyware infested illegal bundle of mirc
11:44 < jim> ok... have you installed a linux dist?
11:45 < tdsm> i'm new in using linux
11:45 < jim> what kind of linux did you install?
11:46 < tdsm> ubantu?
11:46 < jim> ok
11:46 < MrElendig> he is running a version of mirc released in 2002, bundled with some spyware/scripts as a "professiona chat client" in asia
11:46 < tdsm> me?
11:46 < tdsm> emmm
11:47 < tdsm> i got this copy from internet
11:47 < MrElendig> indeed
11:47 < MrElendig> not even a legal one :)
11:47 < MrElendig> (and it is from 2002)
11:47 < tdsm> so,how can i get a legal one?
11:47 < tdsm> i know nothing about this
11:48 < MrElendig> https://hexchat.github.io/  https://weechat.org/
11:48 < azarus> https://irssi.org
11:48 < epicmetal> tdsm: get one of the windows 7 builds of hexchat
11:49 < epicmetal> although you can probably assume your windows install is owned
11:49 < jim> well if you're running ubuntu, you can run this: sudo apt-get install hexchat
11:49 < epicmetal> he's clearly chatting from windows though
11:49 < tdsm> no no
11:49 < jim> then you'll have the one called hexchat
11:49 < tdsm> i'm using windows
11:49 < epicmetal> use ubantu
11:49 < jim> oh ok
11:50 < tdsm> ubantu is too hard for me
11:50 < jim> ok
11:50 < BCMM> you can download hexchat for windows too
11:50 < jim> did you install ubuntu?
11:51 < jim> I heard you when you said you're running windows
11:52 < chchjesus> troll?
11:52 < jim> chchjesus, right now it's possible, but I see him as a youngster
11:54  * vlt now wonders if "ubantu" is a thing
11:54 < tdsm> i'm using ubantu only for studying
11:54 < epicmetal> vlt: it's amazing how much more "ubuntu" is misspelt than any other linux word
11:54 < jim> tdsm, ok
11:55 < epicmetal> vlt: e.g. unbuntu
11:55 < tdsm> eeeeee
11:55 < vlt> ubutnu
11:55 < epicmetal> yes
11:55 < chchjesus> u-colourful-u
11:55 < tdsm> hhh
11:55 < epicmetal> vlt: so i thought i'd misspell it too
11:55 < jim> let's not make fun too much
11:56 < epicmetal> it was more "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" but yes
11:56 < jim> tdsm, can you watch youtube videos?
11:56 < tdsm> i'd better check how to spell u-xxxxxx-u
11:56 < bn_work> MrElendig: hmm, so I `chown -R`ed the home dir of u1 into the same group as u2 but still seeing the broken link.  if i use `namei symlink` it basically gets to /home/u1 but can't find `Downloads`, which *does* exist.
11:56 < vlt> when in #rome
11:57 < revel> epicmetal: Well, it's a South African (so, Dutch? African? Not sure) word, after all.
11:57 < tdsm> why can't i download the windows10 version?
11:57 < jim> tdsm, do you have ubuntu at home?
11:57 < revel> Though that one Arch fork is also misspelled quite a bit.
11:57 < geirha> bn_work: you probably need execute permission on /home/u1 then. chmod g+rx /home/u1
11:57 < tdsm> no
11:58 < epicmetal> revel: implying?
11:58 < tdsm> it's in my school
11:58 < jim> ok, and do you want to have it?
11:58 < revel> Well... It's quite foreign to most people.
11:58 < MrElendig> bn_work: add -l, see the permissions
11:58 < geirha> the +r is optional, but the +x is mandatory
11:58 < MrElendig> +x = can enter, +r = can list the content
11:58 < chchjesus> bntuuu
11:59  * MrElendig would use some shared directory outside of $HOME instead
11:59 < MrElendig> or if you really want to share things inside $HOME, acl
11:59 < chchjesus> setfacl and getfacl?
12:00 < jim> tdsm, do you have a second (blank) hard drive?
12:00 < chchjesus> revel: what arch fork?
12:00 < chchjesus> Manjaro?
12:00 < chchjesus> Or the FOSS one?
12:01 < chchjesus> Parabola
12:01 < chchjesus> GNU/Linux
12:01 < tdsm> jim,i've tried,but the result is sending my computer back to repair
12:02 < tdsm> maybe i didn't do it the right way
12:02 < bookworm> "maybe"
12:03 < bn_work> geirha / MrElendig :  the `-l` definitely helped, and that was it guys, thanks, home dir was missing g+rx (didn't know about `namei`).  is that normal umask when useradd / adduser creates a new homedir?
12:04 < jim> tdsm, ok
12:04 < geirha> bn_work: defaults of that differ between distros
12:05 < MrElendig> $HOME should be 700 except in very rare cases imo
12:05 < geirha> typically the homedir is set to 700 or 750 though
12:05 < bn_work> centos7
12:05 < MrElendig> too easy to give access yo way more than you want if you use 750 imo
12:05 < MrElendig> access to*
12:06 < geirha> yes, better to create a separate directory outside your homedir for sharing stuff with other users
12:06 < jim> bn_work, adduser definitely does create the home dir... useradd is a more nuts n bolts command that also adds users, and it will add the home dir if you put -m
12:06 < MrElendig> adduser behaviour varies depending on implementation
12:06 < geirha> on some distros adduser is just a symlink to useradd
12:07 < MrElendig> useradd is what you should learn/use, since it is the standard tool
12:09 < revel> chchjesus: No, Antergos.
12:12 < bn_work> I can never keep them straight
12:12 < bn_work> and get them confused but MrElendig & geirha  are right
12:12 < Dagmar> I generally just add the lines to /etc/{passwd,shadow,group} directly
12:13 < trae32566[w]> that's frowned upon :|
12:14 < Dagmar> Only by people who don't know the system very well
12:14 < trae32566[w]> no, by everyone
12:14 < trae32566[w]> it prevents fuckups
12:14 < trae32566[w]> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/102323/what-command-should-i-run-after-making-changes-to-etc-passwd-file
12:15 < Dagmar> Perhaps I should mention this is, in fact, computer _science_.
12:15 < jim> trae32566[w], please watch the language when you're here
12:15 < trae32566[w]> ack
12:16 < Dagmar> If you know the format of a file precisely, and you know exactly what you're doing, there is no need to use a helper script when you can simply write your own programmatic interface to changing the files
12:16 < overkiLLe> hello
12:16 < Dagmar> ...and one is also not making those modifications with vim.
12:17 < jim> according to the first 5-10 minutes of the first SICP video, comoputer science is the name they gave the course... but it's not a science, and it'
12:17 < Dagmar> It unfortunately _is_ a science.
12:17 < jim> is not very much about computers
12:18 < sadbox> Dagmar: everyone makes mistakes, and nobody gets a cookie for directly editing passwd files
12:18 < trae32566[w]> ^
12:18 < trae32566[w]> thank you
12:18 < Dagmar> sadbox: Understand that I saw the lectures that were just referenced the summer they were recorded.
12:18 < djph> Dagmar: it's more mathematics than "science"
12:18 < Dagmar> I'd already been programming for five years
12:18 < djph> Dagmar: (but that's splitting hairs :) _
12:18 < trae32566[w]> also, if you *are* going to do it, you should probably use the tools for it (ie: vigr)
12:19 < Dagmar> djph: Math is a science, tho', and that's the root of why I say this is a science, not a liberal art
12:19 < djph> Dagmar: I know (hence the "splitting hairs" bit)
12:19 < sadbox> Dagmar: editing some random config file and being proud of it is about as far from "computer _SCIENCE_" as I can imagine
12:20 < Dagmar> Inserting a line into a variable-length records database is fairly trivial, even in bash.
12:20 < bipul> Math is a critical thinking as well.
12:20 < AppAraat> hi, on latest Raspbian image, I have trouble starting hostapd from boot (but it starts fine when done manually after booting). I've documented my situation here: https://redd.it/8ol5of - and I'm suspecting their official documentation is incorrect.
12:20 < Dagmar> I see the riders of the shortbus are milling about again
12:20 < jim> there's some science stuff about it, but the science part (for example) doesn't get to most programmers, many of them don't use scientific method
12:21 < Dagmar> AppAraat: which model Pi
12:21 < AppAraat> Zero W
12:21 < djph> they should've been made round, because reasons.
12:21 < Dagmar> Well, the driver=driver= thing is very wrong
12:21 < trae32566[w]> @Dagmar: Are you getting on the bus or off? :O
12:21 < MrGrz> hi
12:21 < AppAraat> Dagmar: I've since corrected it, the guide was right about that bit.
12:22 < AppAraat> the nl80211 driver is the right driver. But it still doesn't work at boot.
12:22 < Dagmar> Hrm... I don't have a W model, but hostapd has always worked reliably OOB for me with the B's
12:22 < Dagmar> Which one is being loaded to acutally drive the card/
12:23 < AppAraat> when I manually start hostapd, it complained about cfg80211, but it started fine with nl80211
12:23 < Dagmar> Well, that's even in the hostapd.conf docs IIRC
12:23 < AppAraat> yeah
12:24 < Dagmar> 'nl80211' should be correct for the Pis
12:25 < vim_user_19> hey guys! i'm on an arch linux system with i3 and i've got a problem with the telegram messeger. if i start the telegram-desktop app the speed of youtube increases. anyone got a fix for this behaviour?
12:27 < dbolser> hello, I'm trying to build python 2.7.14 because I'm in a walled garden at work
12:27 < dbolser> I get this error: https://gist.github.com/dbolser/3f243a809accf300cc9cf262d6588796
12:27 < Dagmar> AppAraat: Are you trying to use something other than the built-in Wifi?
12:28 < dbolser> any hints?
12:29 < Dagmar> AppAraat: That functionality *should* work out of the box with Raspbian.  Are you sure you didn't miss something like actually configuring the thing to have a static IP address for wlan0?
12:31 < BluesKaj> Hi folks
12:31 < AppAraat> Dagmar: like what? Bluetooth? Nope. The only other thing that I connect to is the shell from USB, I basically followed this guide - https://markdownshare.com/view/d0ea02de-37a8-4646-a771-baf3b874eab8
12:32 < AppAraat> I'll try and follow the guide once again
12:33 < Dagmar> AppAraat: That article doesn't actually talk about the wifi, really
12:34 < AppAraat> no, it's for getting shell over the USB, which is pretty much the only other "modification" to otherwise a vanilla Raspbian I have
12:36 < Dagmar> dbolser: If that was your _second_ attempt at building python, you just didn't clean up from the previous attempt
12:37 < dbolser> Dagmar: make clean?
12:38  * dbolser makes distclean
12:38 < Dagmar> AppAraat: I'd watch the kernel messages on the next boot at the console to see why it might be failing to autoload the correct driver for hte built-in wifi
12:38 < Dagmar> dbosler: make all the clean if you have to
12:39  * dbolser makes really-clean-this-time-I-mean-it!
12:39 < Dagmar> dbolser: Reading the ridiculously long first line shows there's nothing wrong with your various paths, but it's carping about something it should *not* fail on unless there's been a previous build attempt in that source tree using different options for Unicode support
12:40 < dbolser> Dagmar: that's quite likely
12:40 < dbolser> I'm trying your suggestion now
12:40 < AppAraat> wtf now it worked
12:40 < AppAraat> this is reaaally flaky
12:40 < Dagmar> It really should "just work" out of hte box
12:41 < Dagmar> This isn't like compiling Gentoo or something on an alien platform
12:41 < Dagmar> Raspbian is very much configured to so that it will work 100% properly on the Pis
12:41 < AppAraat> ikr? The only difference is that I afterwards manually started hostapd and connected my phone to the Pi
12:42 < AppAraat> maybe drivers are naughty
12:42 < Dagmar> ...or the hardware is broken
12:42 < AppAraat> hmm, that might also be the case yes
12:42 < Dagmar> ...but thats unlikely unless you're trying to power the thing with a 20ft USB cable that's been chewed on by housepets
12:43 < AppAraat> but the thing is, I thought I tried it on my 2nd Pi ZW but it had the same issue.
12:43 < dbolser> so I dun a make disclean, but the same error occurs... did I mention that I'm configuring like this:
12:43 < AppAraat> nah, I tried powering it with a 2.4W adapter
12:43 < dbolser> ./configure --prefix /homes/dbolser/EG_Places/Devel/Build/Python-2.7.14/../Python-2.7.14-prefix --enable-shared --enable-unicode=ucs4
12:43 < AppAraat> I'll check it out whether it also works on my 2nd Pi ZW
12:44 < Dagmar> dbolser: The prefix you're setting seems like a _really_ bad idea
12:44 < Dagmar> particularly the "/../" part
12:44 < dbolser> er... it's not my source directory
12:44 < dbolser> OK
12:45 < dbolser> trying 2.7.15 now
12:46 < Dagmar> It could also be a bug in Python if the ucs4 stuff is new
12:47 < Dagmar> Unless you know you _need it_ it's probably a better idea to let the python configurator make those decisions
12:47 < dbolser> Aparently it shouldn't be necessary, but I'm seeing a but where this was the suggested fix
12:47 < dbolser> https://github.com/rkern/line_profiler/issues/41
12:47 < AppAraat> works on my 2nd Pi ZW too. Strange. I'll try to recreate this using a fresh SD card. I'm pretty sure it's a bug.
12:50 < Dagmar> dbolser: The error is the sort of thing you'll generally see when compiling a second copy of something that has shared libraries installed to /usr/lib and they wind up in the linking path _before_ the versions the package itself is building, so the package winds up compiling against _the system's version_
12:51 < Dagmar> Like, this does not generally work out
12:52 < Dagmar> -L/homes/dbolser/EG_Places/Devel/Build/Python-2.7.14/../Python-2.7.14-prefix/lib is coming first like it should there
12:53 < Dagmar> Otherwise you need to read the output of ./configure _very carefully_.  There's probably something you missed it mentioning about ucs4
12:59 < dbolser> Dagmar: I see
12:59 < dbolser> thanks
12:59 < dbolser> (same error btw)
13:00 < dbolser> https://gist.github.com/dbolser/2982ae5ca5b16d3ec29a68d07a9ca541
13:09 < pingfloyd> oh great :P MS bought github
13:09 < pingfloyd> more of microsoft's attempt at staging a coup of free software
13:11 < pottsy> what ever do you mean?  they've not just had a conscious change of heart?  :)
13:11 < pingfloyd> always knew that github would eventually go the direction of sourceforge (sell outs).
13:11 < dbolser> microsofts attempt to buy relevance
13:11 < epicmetal> "how do you do, fellow coders?"
13:11 < sadbox> I don't expect it will matter much, when sourceforge started getting sketchy everyone dumped them
13:12 < sadbox> if github get sketchy, people will dump it too
13:12 < epicmetal> isn't there a mass gitlab migration happening
13:12 < pottsy> lol!   office and azure is it for them now
13:12 < pingfloyd> Microsoft know that foss will eventually bring them down
13:12 < pottsy> they have to try something
13:12 < pingfloyd> so they're going with "If can't beat 'em, hostile take over"
13:12 < sadbox> epicmetal: I'm going to take a wild guess that it's the same thing as people leaving $SOCIAL_NETWORK
13:12 < epicmetal> sadbox: meaning
13:12 < sadbox> lots of noise, very low actual number of people leaving
13:12 < epicmetal> oh
13:13 < epicmetal> probably
13:13 < momomo> I have connected a printer/scanner through wps ... i can print fine ... but I would also like to scan ... how can I do that?  ..... normally I use the Simple Scan (with cable) ... now, i am not sure
13:13 < pingfloyd> sadbox: yeah, I predict the same thing.  Github doing grey area ethical things down the road, and many people dumping them like sourceforge (rightfully so).
13:14 < pingfloyd> microsoft is going to find out, that the foss community is a fast moving and dynamic one
13:14 < sadbox> who knows, ms has been doing some OK stuff in the open source world
13:14 < sadbox> it's possible that they will just run it as a good code-hosting site
13:14 < dbolser> I wonder if they'll own the licence of all code ;-P
13:14 < pingfloyd> something else will pop up becoming the next foss distribution platform
13:14 < pingfloyd> I guess one way to look at it, is it is like evolution.
13:14 < pingfloyd> like github was better than sourceforge
13:14 < pingfloyd> since sourceforge sold out and went down the shitter
13:15 < Tahlwyn> im liking gitlab so far
13:15 < pingfloyd> if github doesn't mind its P's and Q's, something new and likely better will take its place.
13:17 < sadbox> I have a small amount of hope that github will continue chugging along without becoming a sourceforge
13:18 < pingfloyd> I think they're buying it more to try to play foss cop
13:19 < pingfloyd> i.e., being a position where they have more control over it
13:19 < nekoseam> Talking about GitHub?
13:19 < pingfloyd> I bet it stings for Microsoft that there is all this software they have no control or influence over.
13:19 < nekoseam> Microsoft cannot be trusted
13:19 < redredhathat> I'm of the stance where we should watch and see what happens
13:20 < redredhathat> It's better than Oracle buying GitHub, right?
13:20 < nekoseam> redredhathat: yeah, just like hotmail
13:20 < nekoseam> linkedin
13:20 < nekoseam> skype
13:20 < nekoseam> those went well
13:20 < nekoseam> ...right?
13:20 < redredhathat> They've killed LinkedIn?
13:20 < pingfloyd> redredhathat: it's kind of a parallel of Oracle buying Sun
13:20 < pingfloyd> redredhathat: LinkedIn was garbage from the start
13:21 < redredhathat> Exactly
13:21 < pingfloyd> redredhathat: it's not FOSS either
13:21 < pingfloyd> LinkedIn is an obvious "insert myself as a middle man a profit" site
13:21 < pingfloyd> *and
13:24 < pingfloyd> I bet they'll release a git client with clippy in it
13:24 < sadbox> they seem to have avoided destroying a few recent acquisitions
13:24 < sadbox> mojang + touchtype
13:24 < pingfloyd> or some other "assistant (vestige of Bob)" BS
13:24 < redredhathat> I don't think that's Microsoft's game anymore
13:25 < redredhathat> I think that MS buying GitHub saved it, seeing as how much money GitHub was losing
13:25 < redredhathat> MS should just let it continue to operate as normal, just with a bigger budget
13:25 < djph> "saved" in the same manner that systemd has "saved" linux-based OSes
13:26 < sadbox> i'm a little afraid that code-hosting is similar to image hosting... too low of profit to sustain a good business
13:26 < redredhathat> GitHub was bleeding money
13:26 < sadbox> so new people pop up, get funding, as the old players slowly try and extract profit
13:26 < paulcarroty> Github has tons of money
13:27 < paulcarroty> but managers seems to want much more
13:27 < pingfloyd> probably more like because github couldn't turn down $7.5 billion
13:27 < pingfloyd> i.e., simple greed
13:27 < djph> so the biz model was flawed, or they made a few bad decisions along the way (namely with the paid model ... while inexpensive, it was still a bit stupidly modeled)
13:27 < pingfloyd> their true colors coming out
13:27 < djph> pingfloyd: let's be honest here, 7.5b is *hard* to turn away from.
13:28 < paulcarroty> yep
13:28 < sinatrablue> your telling me you would turn down 7.5b?
13:28 < pingfloyd> djph: I bet RMS wouldn't sell gnu for that
13:28 < paulcarroty> I can't blame Github stuff
13:28 < redredhathat> I would for 7.6b
13:28 < djph> I mean, it takes some real strong will to turn it down
13:28 < paulcarroty> their service - their decision
13:28 < redredhathat> maybe for 7.7b I would
13:28 < djph> pingfloyd: that's kind of my point
13:28 < pingfloyd> stuff like this shows you who has integrity in the community and who are just in it to make a buck.
13:28 < redredhathat> RMS is a little off his rocker if you asked me
13:29 < sinatrablue> what does it matter who owns git though?
13:29 < pingfloyd> redredhathat: maybe, but he has integrity.
13:29 < pingfloyd> redredhathat: something few figure heads have
13:29 < paulcarroty> I'd probably sell GH for $7b too
13:29 < sinatrablue> as long as they dont slash content or impose limits to uploads it doesnt matter to us in the end
13:29 < dgurney> I'm willing to bet that most people's integrity here would get severely compromised for billions
13:29 < redredhathat> exactly sinatrablue
13:29 < djph> pingfloyd: I ... guess. I wouldn't mind making a buck off the community ... but then again, I don't have anything I think the community would see value in; so ...
13:30 < sadbox> dgurney: Mine would definitely get compromised for like, probably a few thousand
13:30 < pingfloyd> probably a matter of time before you start seeing them place spyware and adware in their downloader.
13:30 < dgurney> yep
13:30 < sinatrablue> I would do some dirty things for 7 bill
13:30 < paulcarroty> the major problem here - tons of foss people think GH like a their symbol, pride of open source in general
13:30 < pingfloyd> just like every other "download" site out there
13:30 < paulcarroty> it's not true
13:30 < djph> sadbox: be honest, it'd be $50 and a hooker.
13:30 < sadbox> djph: prolly
13:30 < redredhathat> GH is just a business
13:31 < paulcarroty> yep
13:31 < paulcarroty> as RH, Canonical etc
13:31 < redredhathat> and like all businesses, they want the pay day
13:31 < pingfloyd> a deceptive business
13:31 < epicmetal> it really isn't the end of the world
13:31 < djph> GH is just a fancy frontend to the 'git' server, isn't it?
13:31 < dgurney> djph, yes
13:31 < paulcarroty> nope
13:31 < paulcarroty> GH is a social network for coding
13:31 < pingfloyd> github is a repository using git
13:31 < epicmetal> projects get to drop their issue tracker... look ma, no bugs
13:31 < dgurney> paulcarroty, but the core functionality is
13:32 < pingfloyd> I suppose you could call it a social network too
13:32 < redredhathat> dgurney i'd have to agree with paulcarroty, its a social network with file sharing built in
13:32 < redredhathat> s/file/code
13:32 < djph> I'm just talking core platform ... not all the extra that comes with it.
13:32 < epicmetal> maybe they can merge git with one of those decentralised social networks
13:32 < sadbox> djph: nobody uses github because of the "core platform"
13:32 < djph> I mean, that's like saying TPB is a social network
13:33 < dgurney> yeah, nobody hosts their repos there sadbox...
13:33 < paulcarroty> dgurney, basic git frontend you can do in 1-2 hours. All GH features - years.
13:33 < dgurney> yes, but at it's core github is nothing more than a fancy git server
13:33 < sadbox> dgurney: If it was -just- git that mattered people would use any number of alternatives, the value in github is the extras
13:33 < epicmetal> is it AGPL?
13:33 < epicmetal> if not, stallman was right yet again lol
13:33 < djph> pretty sure the value of GH is partially "it's the one that's recognized"
13:34 < pingfloyd> epicmetal: Stallman is usually right when it comes to software ethics
13:34 < pingfloyd> epicmetal: just that many can't get past his i
13:34 < pingfloyd> epicmetal: just that many can't get past his superficial flaws
13:34 < paulcarroty> yep, but Stallman sucks in business and development
13:34 < epicmetal> pingfloyd: many suck
13:35 < pingfloyd> epicmetal: think you mean to direct that to paulcarroty
13:35 < epicmetal> you just know RMS would be awesome at parties
13:35 < sinatrablue> if you could change something about git, what would it be then?
13:35 < redredhathat> let me tell you about some free software
13:35 < epicmetal> pingfloyd: no, i mean the "many" that you specified
13:39 < sinatrablue> qualcomm released a new chip, rev up your engines
13:39 < sinatrablue> arm might actually survive
13:39 < tonythomas> (redirected from #bash), I have to measure the CPU utilization of a process (which is a flask application, and I have its PID). The flask application spawns inside it around 5-6 python threads  during execution, and all I have is a top repeated every second in a loop to get the CPU %. Is this the best way ? As the process is spawning threads ? I see its 0.0% at some intervals where its actually working-, and this is why I am confused now.
13:41 < redredhathat> man, rhel 7.5 doesnt ship with youtube-dl
13:43 < paulcarroty> man pip3
13:46 < pingfloyd> tonythomas: probably should parse /proc/stat instead
13:47 < tonythomas> I see. so there is a chance on top showing a weird value ?
13:48 < epicmetal> redredhathat: pkgs.org
13:48 < pingfloyd> tonythomas: http://www.linuxhowtos.org/System/procstat.htm
13:50 < pingfloyd> tonythomas: for example, something like: grep 'cpu ' /proc/stat | awk '{usage=($2+$4)*100/($2+$4+$5)} END {print usage "%"}'
13:51 < tonythomas> pingfloyd: the thing is I have multiple other process running on the system as well, so an overall is not what I want. but probably /proc/PID/stat might help I guess ?
13:51 < pingfloyd> tonythomas: no, using top is more a matter of being a less efficient method and bringing in an extra dependency.
13:51 < pankaj_> I want to prioritize data usage (with respect to home wifi) with respect to application that is using data. Is it possible? Or is their any tool in linux to get info about how much data and which application is using like the stats of data usage.
13:51 < phinxy> Can a commandline program launch another program in the same terminal and still be active until the child process exits?  What decides who gets to draw to the terminal screen?
13:52 < tonythomas> pingfloyd: yes. I can see that as the results are not that great unfortunately
13:52 < tonythomas> pingfloyd: but I need utilization of a single process (the command above gives me the CUP utilization of all processes, right) ?
13:52 < pingfloyd> yeah
13:52 < pingfloyd> that gives a total
13:53 < paulcarroty> https://twitter.com/gitlab/status/1003764673454342144 LOL
13:53 < tonythomas> yes. so probably I might need something on `/etc/PID/status` I guess.
13:53 < pingfloyd> that's not going to give you the info about individual processes
13:53 < pingfloyd> tonythomas: that's not going to give you the info about individual processes
13:54 < tonythomas> pingfloyd: hmm. so I am stuck with top then ?
13:54 < pingfloyd> tonythomas: (parsing /proc/stat)
13:54 < pingfloyd> tonythomas: yeah, unless you think of a different approach
13:54 < tonythomas> alright. Let me grep a bit on  `/proc/PID/stat` then
13:54 < pingfloyd> tonythomas: maybe find out how top attains the values
13:55 < pingfloyd> tonythomas: there are of course other factors in choosing method.  Like something you're not going to use much, elegance matters less.
13:56 < tonythomas> pingfloyd: http://brokestream.com/procstat.html looks good
13:56 < PaulVern> I need some help with a motherboard migration (uefi).  I kept all my hardware the same, but swapped my motherboard and now I can only boot using the super grub disk
13:56 < PaulVern> I have followed: https://askubuntu.com/a/668872
13:56 < pankaj_> Is their any tool in linux to monitor data usage in linux because some times I want to have less data usage to let others use it and how can I know if other application are not using much data in background. Is their any tool in linux like that?
13:56 < PaulVern> which appears to work
13:56 < tonythomas> pingfloyd: the only requirement at this point is to get accurate CPU usage :D
13:57 < PaulVern> but after rebooting, the changes don't persist, and I have to use super grub again
13:58 < pingfloyd> tonythomas: procstat looks good
13:59 < tonythomas> pingfloyd: well, even there there is no CPU % :/
14:00 < tonythomas> `ps -p <pid> -o %cpu,%mem,cmd` way simple. Let me see if I can replace my current setup with this
14:05 < redredhathat> tonythomas nice find
14:13 < AppAraat> Dagmar: you have any experience with sharing the Internet of one machine with a RPi? I'm connecting to my Pi ZW over USB (on Pi: usb0 and on laptop: enp0s20u2) and I want to share my laptop's wifi connection (which is on wlp3s0). If I'm not mistaken I only have to bridge wlp3s0 with enp0s20u2, right?
14:16 < Minnebo> Hi
14:18 < psoef> hi
14:21 < pankaj_> Is their any tool in linux to monitor data usage in linux because some times I want to have less data usage to let others use it and how can I know if other application are not using much data in background. Is their any tool in linux like that?
14:23 < djph> no.
14:24 < PaulVern> jnettop
14:25 < handturkey> hey, using google maps on a laptop with a usb gps dongle
14:25 < handturkey> how do I do this with firefox? and arch linux
14:25 < handturkey> is it possible?
14:25 < djph> do ... what with firefox?
14:26 < handturkey> use google maps: with a GPS donle
14:26 < handturkey> dongle
14:26 < handturkey> on a laptop running arch, if the distro matters
14:27 < djph> hm, haven't ever gotten that to play nice myself (although, I only played with it a couple of times before I put the GPS in whatever toy I was building)
14:28 < handturkey> you used the gps chipset in something else?
14:29 < djph> yeah, or at least tried to.  That may not have worked out either now that I think about it
14:30 < merskiasa> Why is this error occuring? https://pastebin.com/jSgfuGCb
14:30 < handturkey> djph, heh.
14:30 < handturkey> this gps dongle shows up in lsusb
14:31 < handturkey> I wonder how I get it to WORK
14:31 < psoef> maybe you need a driver for it?
14:31 < Dagmar> You'll never guess what the name of the software you need to read it is
14:31 < merskiasa> Anyone>?
14:31 < psoef> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GPS
14:32 < djph> Dagmar: gpsd?
14:32 < spacepluk> hi, I'm make a program that grabs some input devices using evdev, but the device name changes on every boot.  Is there any way to identify a device and get it's /dev/input/eventX?
14:32 < revel> merskiasa: Because, and I quote, "A required package was not found"
14:32 < psoef> merskiasa: "See also "/home/jeff/pulseview-0.4.0/CMakeFiles/CMakeOutput.log"."
14:32 < merskiasa> revel, which package?
14:32 < revel> Checking if you have the -dev versions of all the packages mentioned in that paste would probably be good.
14:32 < revel> I don't know which ones you have installed.
14:35 < fillione> Can someone please explain (simply) why I might want to run a reverse proxy to access my apps from my server... I run a few downloading apps from a single server. I keep seeing that a RP is more secure but I don't really understand why... Thanks
14:35 < pankaj_> Is it possible to use virtual machine while remaining in tty or console without taking any help from X?
14:36 < Dagmar> fillione: If you don't know why you're doing it, then it's not
14:36 < merskiasa> revel, https://sigrok.org/wiki/Linux#PulseView
14:37 < revel> merskiasa: Right... Well, do you have the packages glib-2.0>=2.28.0;glibmm-2.4>=2.28.0;libsigrokcxx>=0.5.0;libsigrokdecode>=0.5.0 ?
14:37 < revel> Or the ones listed there, sure.
14:38 < fillione> <Dagmar> I'm not running one... I'm asking why I should one - I don't really see the benefit when I'm only running a few apps from a single server... :-)
14:39 < Dagmar> The general idea is for hte RP to only whitelist reasonable queries
14:40 < merskiasa> revel, yes
14:40 < merskiasa> and it still same error
14:41 < revel> What distro and release thereof are you running?
14:41 < fillione> <Dagmar> Thx.. I have a couple of ports open on my router that forward to a single machine, is'nt that kind of the same thing?
14:41 < Dagmar> No
14:41 < merskiasa> revel, 4.4.0-127-generic #153-Ubuntu SMP Sat May 19 10:58:46 UTC 2018 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
14:41 < merskiasa> Ubuntu
14:42 < djph> pankaj_: sure, ssh into the other machine.
14:42 < revel> 16.04/18.04?
14:42 < merskiasa> Distributor ID:	Ubuntu
14:42 < merskiasa> Description:	Ubuntu 16.04.4 LTS
14:42 < merskiasa> Release:	16.04
14:42 < merskiasa> Codename:	xenial
14:43 < merskiasa> revel, ^
14:43  * Metalloid grunts
14:43 < revel> Ubuntu 16.04 sounds like it should work... Dunno.
14:43 < merskiasa> Why is it not tho?
14:44 < fillione> <Dagmar> Ok, thx... so the RP rejects all queries other than whitelisted addresses (lets say 3), how does that differ from say 3 open ports on a router?
14:44 < revel> I'd double check if the versions of packages in the repo are really high enough according to what cmake said, but other than that, dunno. Maybe check /home/jeff/pulseview-0.4.0/CMakeFiles/CMakeOutput.log in case it has anything informative.
14:44 < pankaj_> djph: Well, I have an lfs build system and to configure and work with ssh is a big task that I cannot do this right now. It will need a lot of packages to be installed on first hand first and then ssh.
14:46 < Dagmar> fillione: Do you know what whitelisting means?
14:47 < fillione> whitelisting means "allowed"
14:48 < ALowther> I would like to create a new partition on my HardDrive so that I can follow Linux From Scratch(LFS). It seems that either by default, or by a silly choice on my part, the entire 500GB HDD has been partitioned for the linux file system. I don't need this much space....Are there any personal recommendations and/or suggestions for documentations that could help me understand how to safely repartition some of the enormous unnecessary current pa
14:48 < ALowther> rtition?..For learning purposes, I would preferably like to do this with fdisk or another CL tool...Thank you.
14:48 < djph> pankaj_: then that's going ot be more difficult
14:50 < pankaj_> djph: Actually, I was also searching for another tool that helps to monitor and prioritize data usage on basis of application that I am using because sometimes I do not know background process data usage stats when I want to let other use net data. Is their any tool (specially cmd) for that. What is your perspective?
14:55 < djph> no, not that I know of.  (Nor that I care about ... "connection sharing" / QoS is handled by your router)
15:13 < screwsss> why does linux remind me of mac
15:13 < screwsss> Alexander-47u -  hey bro
15:15 < ixxie> screwsss: because both are Unix based systems?
15:15 < screwsss> ah.
15:15 < screwsss> thanks
15:15 < screwsss> unix - unified linux?
15:15 < screwsss> or just UX (user eXperience)
15:15 < ixxie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix
15:16 < ixxie> unix is an OS that predates any of the modern ones
15:16 < screwsss> thats written in a different language
15:16 < screwsss> oh old school
15:16 < screwsss> so how did bill gates mop the floor with the competition
15:16 < ixxie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix#/media/File:Unix_history-simple.svg
15:18 < jim> he bought a mop?
15:18 < BluesKaj> predatory marketing
15:20 < BluesKaj> IBM really blew it on home pcs and Bill Gates moved in to fill the demand. so he was opportunistic
15:20 < sinatrablue> yeah but at the time who would have known
15:20 < BluesKaj> software/.OS wise
15:21 < BluesKaj> some people are visionaries , hate to say so, but he saw it
15:24 < hans_> any suggestions how to debug this? http://paste.debian.net/plain/1028053
15:25 < jim> the first time I saw a "home computer" it was on the cover of the magazine Radio-Electronics, it was a computer kit called the Altair 8800
15:25 < screwsss> so windows is the odd one out
15:26 < BluesKaj> yeah, think I remember that jim,  early 70's ?
15:26 < jim> yep
15:27 < pankaj_> BluesKaj: Great geeks
15:27 < BluesKaj> I was getting into audio back then, built a Heathkit AA-29  stereo amp in 1972, still works :-)
15:27 < jim> something like that... then another company, Imsai in San Leandro had another kit, and that's the computer that appeared on the movie War Games, that the kids had
15:28 < jim> yeah, heathkit rocked
15:30 < MrElendig> java gui = write once, break everywhere
15:30 < MrElendig> bha wrong channel
15:30 < sinatrablue> lol not wrong
15:32 < sinatrablue> have you always had to pay for synergy?
15:32 < sinatrablue> i thought it was free at one time
15:32 < azarus> sinatrablue: you can still grab old free versions
15:33 < jim> screwsss, did I give you the python video url?
15:33 < azarus> they turned it into a product
15:33 < screwsss> no i dont think so
15:33 < sinatrablue> wierd
15:33 < jim> screwsss, ok here it is... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV9tSHFAFjg, it's 11 hours so pace yourself :)
15:34 < jim> it's a little annoying, but you'll get used to it
15:37 < screwsss> good god
15:37 < screwsss> and this is just the introduction..
15:38 < MrElendig> that video is not very good either
15:39 < jim> MrElendig, yeah well it'll get him started
15:43 < screwsss> does anyone actually still use python..
15:43 < Dominian> sure
15:44 < MrElendig> reddit does
15:44 < screwsss> like more than 2
15:44 < Dominian> There are a lot of projects out there that ar epython-based
15:45 < g105b> Hi all, I'm having trouble with my remote system's stability and I have noticed some odd behaviour in the auth.log - my user is showing multiple "session opened" logs throughout the day when I know I'm not connecting... can someone confirm that this means what I think it means - someone has managed to gain access to the system?
15:47 < ayecee> g105b: it's kind of hard to say when we can't see what you're seeing.
15:47 < ayecee> but probably not.
15:47 < rpgio> g105b: have you checked the output of the 'last' command?
15:48 < g105b> rpgio: I can't log in myself, but I've mounted its filesystem.
15:48 < g105b> rpgio: can I view `last` somehow without booting into the OS?
15:50 < rpgio> hmm well apparently 'last' reads a binary file stored at /var/log/wtmp -- so you could run it with 'last -f' and set the file path on your mounted disk
15:51 < rpgio> e.g. $ last -f /run/media/g105b/var/log/wtmp
15:52 < MrElendig> I gave him a link to a good book for learning python, but I doubt he ever opened it
15:52 < MrElendig> and if he did, that he lasted more than half a page
15:53 < ayecee> can't of been that good then
15:53 < ayecee> have*
15:55 < Sharetel> Hi, please can anyone help me with the command to assign RW permissions to all subdirectories except 1 of them. Example, subdirectory 1-10 but I do not wish to give RW permissions to subdirectory7.
15:56 < MrElendig> man find
15:56 < MrElendig> or you can use fancy globbing if your shell supports it
15:57 < MrElendig> find . -not -name ...
15:58 < MrElendig> **/^...*
15:59 < jim> Sharetel, another way, first, give rw permission to all 10, then run again to deny such permission to just 7
16:04 < dbolser> after re-building python 7.15, I have a new problem... the elf I'm trying to run is linked against a version of glibc I don't have
16:04 < dbolser> /nfs/production/panda/ensemblgenomes/development/dbolser/Build/Solidi/solidi-client-santander.co.uk-linux-v2.7/banks/santander.co.uk/check_santander: relocation error: /nfs/software/ensembl/RHEL7-JUL2017-core2/linuxbrew/lib/libpthread.so.0: symbol __libc_vfork, version GLIBC_PRIVATE not defined in file libc.so.6 with link time reference
16:05 < dbolser> Am I screwed?
16:05 < screwsss> yep
16:05  * dbolser cries
16:06 < dbolser> so my next thought is reverse compile the elf and re-compile it...
16:06 < ksk> dbolser: is compiling python really the solution of your problem?
16:06 < dbolser> ksk: that was my first problem
16:07 < dbolser> now I have a new problem
16:07 < MrElendig> https://bpaste.net/show/150ca6f19e4f  1..10 are dirs, a..c are files
16:10 < Sharetel> jim: This is what I do "setfacl -Rm u:username:rwx dir and then cd into the parent directory and setfacl -Rm u:username:--- dir but that's a long way
16:13 < uplime> MrElendig: 2 things: (a) what shell is that and (b) i really hope you name your machines after alice in wonderland
16:14 < MrElendig> uplime: zsh of course
16:14 < uplime> ah
16:14 < uplime> that makes sense
16:14 < MrElendig> though you can do it in bash too
16:14 < uplime> not quite in that way though
16:14 < MrElendig> sort of
16:14 < MrElendig> bash doesn't have proper qualifiers
16:14 < uplime> yeah
16:14 < uplime> its PE's are kind of lacking
16:15 < prussian> printf '%s\n' testing/!(7) assuming you have extglob on
16:16 < MrElendig> prussian: but doesn't exclude files
16:17 < dbolser> giving up on decompiling, can I install glibc and play with LD_LIBRARY?
16:18 < MrElendig> rebuild against the libc you are actually using in the environment?
16:18 < dbolser> MrElendig: it's compiled, so I can't rebuild
16:18 < MrElendig> python that is
16:18 < dbolser> This binary calls out to python, but it needs to be 7.14+
16:19 < dbolser> so I compiled my own python and tinkered with LD_LIBRARY
16:19 < MrElendig> btw I want your time machine
16:19 < dbolser> mine
16:19 < dbolser> oh, 2.7.13+
16:20 < dbolser> the version of python I have at work is 2.7.12
16:20 < dbolser> The problem comes from the fact that the dude distributes a binary, not source
16:22 < GodOfsea> Failed password for invalid user ubuntu from 102.177.165.71 port 56976 ssh2      I am seeing this in journalctl-xe pretty sure thats not my ip , is someone trying to log in ?
16:22 < ayecee> GodOfsea: if you're connected to the internet, then almost always
16:23 < MrElendig> GodOfsea: seems like it
16:23 < GodOfsea> ayecee I know there are bots which try this for all ips
16:23 < prussian> dbolser: sounds like you need docker
16:23 < MrElendig> -xe is not that useful btw
16:23 < prussian> and possibly jesus
16:23 < dbolser> prussian: yeah, he's offered to send me a vm
16:23 < MrElendig> if your sshd is configured sanely and you don't have silly user/pass combos then you can safely ignore these
16:24 < GodOfsea> I know its not , but I dunno what else to use , postfix wont start , dunno why and it doesnt even have a log
16:24 < MrElendig> GodOfsea: journalctl -b -u postfix
16:24 < ayecee> GodOfsea: often /var/log/mail.log
16:24 < ikonia> GodOfsea: postfix does log
16:24 < ikonia> you'll find logs in the mail logs and the system logs
16:24 < ikonia> you can also manually launch postfix with the same options as the systemd unit to get real time output
16:25 < MrElendig> -b == this boot, -u == this unit file
16:25 < MrElendig> journalctl can give you real time output too (minus buffering lag)
16:25 < GodOfsea> I will disable the password login
16:25 < ikonia> MrElendig: lovely trick
16:25 < ikonia> what has the password login got to do with postfix ?
16:26 < GodOfsea> nothing , its for the bots
16:26 < GodOfsea> postconf: fatal: file /etc/postfix/master.cf: line 127 , this is what I got
16:26 < ikonia> ok - so there you go
16:27 < ikonia> it's telling you the line that's causing a problem
16:27 < MrElendig> gvimvim +127 /etc/postfix/master.cf
16:27 < MrElendig> gvim/vim*
16:27 < GodOfsea> I use vim
16:28 < GodOfsea> but that line is fine , user=spamd argv=/usr/bin/spamc -f -e
16:29 < ikonia> can it execute that ?
16:29 < MrElendig> if it was fine it wouldn't complain
16:31 < sinatrablue> best hexchat theme?
16:31 < MrElendig> gtk-look.org
16:32 < MrElendig> er.. gnome-look.org
16:32 < GodOfsea> yup it looks like there is some error
16:32 < MrElendig> pick a gtk2 theme that suits you
16:32  * MrElendig shakes fist at hexchat for not porting to gtk3 yet
16:32 < dbolser> MrElendig: socalist
16:33 < MrElendig> nothing socialistic about wanting it to actually work on wayland and have the security fixes etc
16:33 < dbolser> I was commenting you your la-se-fair approach to hexchat theming
16:33 < ayecee> laise-faire
16:33 < noirx> hello
16:34 < ayecee> is french
16:34 < GodOfsea> Nope no erros there , ikonia spamd can execute it
16:34 < sinatrablue> why is xfce so comfy
16:34 < noirx> i print things, but no printing happening, the print queue is empty, any idea
16:34 < ayecee> ah, laissez faire, i can't spell it either.
16:35 < GodOfsea> anyone got a good link on how to setup a mail server
16:35 < dbolser> google?
16:36 < GodOfsea> that actually works , I might add
16:36 < ayecee> GodOfsea: 1) don't do it  2) (for experts only!) don't do it yet
16:36 < Armand> dbolser: You mean "lmgtfy" :P
16:36 < Lachezar> Hey all. I started noticing WiFi disconnects. This seems to preceed the disconnect in dmesg: wlp3s0: AP xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx changed bandwidth, new config is 2447 MHz, width 1 (2447/0 MHz)
16:36 < dbolser> looks to me like I can compile libc / libthread / etc and use LD_LIBRARY_PATH
16:36 < dbolser> it's just a pain in the assets
16:36 < Armand> GodOfsea: Easy way? cPanel....
16:36 < uplime> GodOfsea: its not worth it
16:36 < GodOfsea> wft why cpanel
16:36 < Armand> Hahahaha
16:37 < Armand> Because it does the job.
16:37 < Armand> And does it quite well.
16:37 < ayecee> GodOfsea: i guess it depends if you're doing this for work or for fun.
16:37 < GodOfsea> because it may take away my freedom ?
16:37 < Armand> I'm out.
16:37 < GodOfsea> for fun ,
16:37 < uplime> what freedom? you get and send mail
16:37 < uplime> its definitely not fun
16:38 < dbolser> I just need to work out what version this elf wants...
16:38 < GodOfsea> actually to learn , so I can troubleshoot mail servers
16:38 < ayecee> nah, it can be fun.
16:38 < uplime> ayecee: not getting it to work
16:38 < ayecee> it's a great way to learn why people normally outsource it :)
16:38 < GodOfsea> yup lol
16:38 < uplime> thats how I learned!
16:38 < Armand> GodOfsea: For my own experience... setting up exim is a PITA, compared to having it as a part of cPanel.
16:38 < uplime> GodOfsea: i troubleshoot mail servers all of the time, and i learned most from packet captures
16:39 < uplime> setting it up taught me nothing other than that I should let someone else handle it
16:39 < GodOfsea> so I need wireshark
16:39 < uplime> sure
16:39 < uplime> thats an option
16:40 < MrElendig> setting up an email stack is generally a bad idea unless you know what you are doing, specially if it is public facing
16:40 < GodOfsea> I can actually receive emails , cant send it out , and cant login to thunderbird , after that I changed hostname from mail.mydomain.com to mydomain.com and postfix stopped working
16:42 < GodOfsea> MrElendig ,I use it to experiment ,  would never do that in production
16:42 < GodOfsea> https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-configure-a-mail-server-using-postfix-dovecot-mysql-and-spamassassin This is what I used to configure it
16:44 < ksk> yeah, dont run your own email :D
16:44 < ayecee> ok, we've already covered that.
16:44 < GodOfsea> 95% of the ppl said that ksk
16:45 < GodOfsea> 5% = stay away from mail servers
16:45 < Armand> lol
16:45 < Armand> 1% said "Install cPanel!"
16:45 < Armand> ^_^
16:45 < GodOfsea> Armand you Aare the only 1 who said that
16:45 < Armand> Seems so....
16:46 < pingfloyd> don't install cpanel
16:46 < GodOfsea> never
16:46 < Armand> The logic is still sound, as it takes a lot of hassle out of setting up accounts.
16:46 < GodOfsea> its hard to remove
16:46 < Armand> format disk, done. :P
16:46 < twainwek> so after 7 years canonical finally accepted that unity sucks? is that what happened?
16:47 < pingfloyd> twainwek: probably more like it doesn't fit in with the Microsoft vision
16:47 < GodOfsea> The logic here is , I am learning sys admin stuff ( work part time as sysadmin) so I gotta learn it
16:47 < pingfloyd> GodOfsea: they don't make you suffer with Exchange?
16:47 < Armand> I work fulltime as a SysAdmin... I dread having to set up a custom mail server.
16:48 < twainwek> ms really has that much say in which direction canonical goes?
16:48 < Armand> Thankfully, I don't have to deal with Exchange.
16:48 < GodOfsea> Armand I am starting to
16:48 < pingfloyd> twainwek: they're canonical's new masters
16:48 < Armand> f* exchange
16:48 < Armand> POS
16:48 < twainwek> great. that explains why the chosen alternative also sucks
16:48 < pingfloyd> twainwek: it's all down hill from here
16:49 < GodOfsea> pingfloyd I dont want to do anything related to ms
16:49 < pingfloyd> not that it was ever that high to begin with
16:49 < pingfloyd> tried WSL?
16:49 < Psi-Jack> Ewww, WSL.
16:50 < alexandre9099> hi, does anyone know where easyrsa stores CA private key?
16:50 < GodOfsea> ok so if everyone if afraid of setting up mail servers , who sets it up then ?
16:50 < Psi-Jack> alexandre9099: In the private directory...
16:50 < Psi-Jack> GodOfsea: People with actual knowledge, like me. :)
16:51 < alexandre9099> Psi-Jack, oh... i'm dumb, i just saw priv folder and haven't seen the ca.key file :D
16:51 < compdoc> Ive set up a couple of mail servers. I wasnt scared at all
16:51 < pingfloyd> GodOfsea: what's to be afraid of?
16:51 < GodOfsea> Psi-Jack how  ?
16:51 < Psi-Jack> GodOfsea: How what?
16:52 < pingfloyd> 1) configure postfix or exim 2) profit
16:52 < GodOfsea> how did you learn
16:52 < GodOfsea> 2 ) profit ? like cash
16:52 < pingfloyd> reading and trial and error
16:53 < GodOfsea> fair enough, that is how I learnt most things in linux
16:53 < GodOfsea> but most stuff dont take 3 hours to set it up
16:53 < GodOfsea> like mail server
16:54 < Psi-Jack> GodOfsea: Doing.
16:54 < pingfloyd> nobody said it was going to be easy
16:55 < GodOfsea> so far , they were
16:56 < Psi-Jack> Setting up a mail server is easy.
16:56 < MrElendig> not getting blacklisted by the world is hard
16:56 < Psi-Jack> Making it secure, compliant, using all the latest methods of identification, signing, etc, anti-spam measures, and not RBL'd... That's the hard part.
16:56 < MrElendig> checking the validity of incoming mail is also hard
16:57 < GodOfsea> I think I am already blacklisted
16:57 < adrian_1908> yeah, that's what I concluded when I looked into setting one up myself (for private use only). ended up not doing it.
16:57 < pingfloyd> the hell has only just begun
16:58 < GodOfsea> I bought my domain on sunday
16:58 < GodOfsea> Psi-Jack got a link , doc , script , something
16:59 < MrElendig> soon you will get emails saying that you can get unblacklisted for the low sum of $299
16:59 < pingfloyd> being an email admin is getting all the hell and none of the recognition
16:59 < ayecee> is that a thing? i haven't seen that.
16:59 < MrElendig> yes it is a thing
16:59 < Psi-Jack> I've run my own mail server for 15~20 some years
16:59 < MrElendig> I've gotten a few
16:59 < MrElendig> even when I have not been blacklisted :p
16:59 < Psi-Jack> MrElendig: LOL. I have never seen those. Maybe they got spam filtered. LOL
17:00 < pingfloyd> should have been named e-hell
17:00 < compdoc> I blacklisted MrElendig years ago
17:00 < alexandre9099> can john the ripper be used for easy rsa ca keys? (i guess those are regular rsa encrypted keys, but i find nothing on the web)
17:00 < MrElendig> Psi-Jack: just relax your filters on postmaster@* :p
17:00 < GodOfsea> MrElendig I will not get any of those mails if my email doesnt work *winks*
17:00 < alexandre9099> i forgot the passphrase (but i remember a big part of it)
17:00 < MrElendig> or admin@
17:00 < Psi-Jack> MrElendig: Heh. Nope. Not gonna happen. Those get hightened filtered specifically!
17:01 < GodOfsea> wow 15-20 years , I am 20 years old
17:01 < pingfloyd> GodOfsea: did some old person tell you that email is the future?
17:02 < MrElendig> another classic is emails about how your domain is about to expire
17:02 < Psi-Jack> I get those. But only from my registrar.
17:03 < GodOfsea> pingfloyd i thought it was a  good idea to run my own mail server
17:04 < pingfloyd> GodOfsea: for work?
17:04 < GodOfsea> nope , maybe but not right now
17:05 < Armand> You know that most residential IPs are blacklisted by default, right ?
17:05 < GodOfsea> the domain is myname.com , so maybe in future
17:05 < GodOfsea> its a vps
17:05 < Armand> Fair do's
17:06 < Armand> I only run 2 VPS, one cPanel.. the other Windows, for games DS.
17:07 < pingfloyd> DS?
17:07 < Armand> Dedicated Server
17:07 < GodOfsea> I take care of 7 physical servers at work and own 2 vps
17:07 < Armand> I have no idea how many servers I support... Loads. :P
17:07 < Psi-Jack> "own" as in  you run yourself? :p
17:07 < Psi-Jack> Cause "VPS" is a bling marketing word. Meaningless by itself.
17:08 < pingfloyd> in 5 nines!
17:09 < Psi-Jack> Screw 5. 9 nines or perish!
17:09 < pingfloyd> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM42YTY62rA
17:11 < AppAraat> I present you... my portable media player :p https://s15.postimg.cc/65h32gvm3/IMG_20180605_162613.jpg
17:11 < Psi-Jack> AppAraat: What... No iBeat Blaxx?
17:12 < AppAraat> this is much better in sound quality
17:12 < Psi-Jack> (Yes, that was the actual make AND model of a portable mp3/ogg media player before they realized how bad a name that was)
17:12 < AppAraat> and looking like it's the bomb :p
17:12 < pingfloyd> AppAraat: needs more legos
17:12 < AppAraat> lol
17:12 < pingfloyd> I bet airport security would shit their pants
17:13 < Psi-Jack> Heh
17:13 < pingfloyd> "uhh... control, we have a code red here!"
17:13 < Psi-Jack> Maybe they would ship their pants, too.
17:13 < pingfloyd> that's why it needs more legos like I was saying
17:13 < pingfloyd> legos bring happy thoughts
17:14 < pingfloyd> they should thank their lucky stars I'm not a terrorist
17:15 < day> AppAraat: you've seen the fake bomb thing on twitch recently? :P
17:16 < AppAraat> nope
17:16 < AppAraat> sounds like something that would happen on twitch though
17:17 < day> streamer accepted text to speech donations. someone send a "bomb countdown text". It involved lots of running and screaming people. A few minutes later he got busted live on stream by police.
17:18 < day> im guessing him being a bearded arab didnt help the cause ^_^"
17:18 < GunqqerFriithian> F
17:20 < AppAraat> loool
17:20 < pingfloyd> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j-D8is69XM
17:21 < pingfloyd> air raid sirens going off?! WTF?
17:22 < ALowther> I would like to create a new partition on my HardDrive so that I can follow Linux From Scratch(LFS). It seems that either by default, or by a silly choice on my part, the entire 500GB HDD has been partitioned for the linux file system. I don't need this much space....Are there any personal recommendations and/or suggestions for documentations that could help me understand how to safely repartition some of the enormous unnecessary current pa
17:22 < ALowther> rtition?..For learning purposes, I would preferably like to do this with fdisk or another CL tool...Thank you.
17:22 < pingfloyd> I bet he's going to "pound me in the ass" Guantanamo Bay.
17:23 < AppAraat> haha that's perfect
17:33 < zenix_2k2> one question, is there any OS that uses Linux kernel which isn't open-sourced ?
17:33 < AppAraat> ALowther: https://access.redhat.com/articles/1190213 ?
17:38 < DevinDevoir> Sure
17:38 < DevinDevoir> There are many of them
17:39 < pingfloyd> zenix_2k2: plenty of tivoized devices out there
17:40 < pingfloyd> zenix_2k2: this is the main reason gpl2 was updated to gpl3
17:43 < ALowther> AppAraat: I will check that out, thank you
17:50 < revel> Which will come first: Linux 4.20 or Linux 5.0?
17:51 < Psi-Jack> 4.20
17:53 < revel> Well, Linus has been hinting at a 5.0 release coming soon™ while also saying he wants it to be unexpected and insignificant, so he could basically just drop 5.0 next release, afaik.
17:54 < toothe> anyone have a mutt configuration that uses mbox?
17:56 < zenix_2k2> so OS with Linux kernel doesn't has to be open-sourced ?
17:56 < Psi-Jack> zenix_2k2: So, a box has to have air?
17:56 < Sitri> Not really, but you still have to obey the GPL in regards to the kernel itself.
17:56 < zenix_2k2> Psi-Jack: well, maybe ? most of boxes i suppose
17:57 < ayecee> i don't think analogies work on him
17:57 < Psi-Jack> LOL
17:57 < Psi-Jack> Seems not.
17:58 < zenix_2k2> so an example please ? i never saw any distribution like that
17:58 < Psi-Jack> zenix_2k2: Tivo uses Linux. You can go to Tivo and request the kernel source code, and they can supply it, free of charge or for a reasonable fee to cover the cost to give it to you. The rest of the product of course, they do not have to give you.
17:59 < hans_> a box doesn't have to contain air.. a box of helium?
18:00 < ayecee> it might contain another box
18:00 < zenix_2k2> so i can still pay to have some quick looks through the source codes of the kernel ?
18:00 < ayecee> boxception
18:00 < Psi-Jack> hans_: ssssoo... helium could consume you and make you float?
18:00 < Sitri> zenix_2k2: perhaps spend 10 minutes and read the GPL
18:02 < hans_> not sure about consuming, but.. what were they called, huge helium airships basically,
18:02 < zenix_2k2> Sitri: Garena Premier League ? that was the first answer google gave me
18:02 < zenix_2k2> and it is more like a game
18:02 < Sitri> ...
18:02 < prawn> i got a zfs question. i know this channel is technically not the right place, but meh. i have created a dataset and transfered 2.2TB worth of small files to it. Now i accidentally removed the parent folder of that data (thanks rsync --delete), but zfs list and others show that the dataset still occupies 2.2TB of space even though the fs is technically empty except for a 5 line bash script which certainly
18:02 < prawn> doesn't use 2TB. of course i made no snapshots, derp. The data is not lost but if possible i'd like to avoid another weekend of rsync or at least cut it as short as possible. a naive google search tells you 'no snapshots, no restore', but why does the dataset still reference the data then adn how would i 'reclaim' the space in production? 🤔
18:02 < zenix_2k2> no i mean it
18:02 < Sitri> zenix_2k2: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0.txt
18:03 < Sitri> That's the one Linux itself is under
18:03 < zenix_2k2> well ok
18:05 < jeffree> why does 'dpkg -L packagename' output separate lines for the path to files as well as the path with the file? seems useless
18:07 < ExoUNX> I'm about to dispose of a server that's collocated
18:08 < jeffree> executing the self-destruct command?
18:09 < ExoUNX> I'd like to wipe it, would a dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/xvda suffice?
18:10 < Lachezar> jeffree: Directories can have specific ownership or permissions, they're elements on their own.
18:10 < pnbeast> ExoUNX, that's pretty much impossible to tell without a clear description of your goals and probably a description of your "threat model".  I'd lay even odds that /dev/zero is sufficient and largely equivalent to /dev/random for your real situation.
18:11 < Sitri> ExoUNX: just use DBAN
18:11 < prawn> ExoUNX: on physical hardware one could start arguing that this *might* be enough, /dev/vda tells me it's a vserver, in which case anything that hit the blockdevice is probably on some block device at your hoster, even possibly versioned via snapshots. to avoid this problem in the future, use something like LUKS next time.
18:12 < ExoUNX> it's our xen server
18:12 < ExoUNX> super old, just don't need it
18:12 < ExoUNX> but only 1 VM on it anyways lol
18:12 < leopard> ExoUNX: use shred
18:13 < ExoUNX> but I'd like to run it while connected over SSH, so it should be memory friendly
18:14 < ExoUNX> the threat model isn't anything extreme, just want to make sure you can't recover the data from the dump
18:14 < ExoUNX> so writings zeros would fine too
18:14 < ExoUNX> I just figured /dev/(u)random would be just as fast since it's limited by IO anyways
18:14 < pnbeast> But you're seriously asking for "security" on a box that's located under someone else's control?
18:15 < ExoUNX> me?
18:15 < pnbeast> ExoUNX, yes, you.
18:15 < ExoUNX> no? and again, the box is under my control for the most part, it is in another physical location though...
18:16 < prawn> if you want to have peace of mind, boot some live image bare metal(!) and overwrite /dev/sd? with zeros or random date, as you wish. There's also the so-called 'SecureErase' function which might be everything but secure depending on your level of paranoia and threat model.
18:16 < ExoUNX> like what, I just want to wipe it while connected to it
18:16 < prawn> is this some additional partition or your rootfs ExoUNX?
18:17 < ExoUNX> rootfs
18:17 < kuahara> I'm working with a Centos linux server.  The other day, I popped in here with a question about a problem we've been having that may or may not have anything to do with the fact that this machine is running linux.  We're still troubleshooting.  We have a folder full of .htm files that our document processor opens up and populates with case related information on the fly.
18:17 < pnbeast> ExoUNX, disregarding "colocated", do you imagine that what you send to a small computer (any modern storage device, e.g. a hard drive) is under your control except *maybe* if everything was encrypted before it hit that storage?  If not, you're good, and wiping with zeros or rands or whatever is as good as you'll get shy of destroying the drive.  Probably.
18:18 < leopard> ExoUNX: like I said, use shred. It's likely already installed on your machine. 'man shred' for more info.
18:18 < kuahara> Every few days, some of these documents will have a garbage header and junk within the document.  To fix it, all we've been doing is downloading a copy of the document, saving it, then uploading back to the server again; overwriting the broken document in the process.
18:18 < kuahara> We are making 0 changes, just saving it and re-uploading it
18:18 < kuahara> and this somehow fixes the problem.   I came here for suggestions.
18:19 < Psi-Jack> While hitting enter excessively.
18:19 < leopard> sounds like whatever is populated the case information is changing some file metadata
18:19 < kuahara> Someone suggested running diff file1 file2 and trying to determine the difference.  I captured a broken file, fixed it, gave it a new name, and did exactly that.  diff returned no output for the two files.
18:20 < kuahara> So the broken and fixed files are still on the server.  I know diff is working because I tested it against a completely different file and got all the output I was expecting.
18:20 < leopard> you're supposed to diff before you fix it
18:20 < ExoUNX> pnbeast, I was not expecting or wanting high security when it comes to this machine. The data on it isn't really that sensitive anyways, and if it was, it would have never been in this configuration
18:20 < lunaphyte> hi.  as an unprivileged user, given a pid running as that same unprivileged user, how can i list unix sockets open by that pid?
18:20 < kuahara> leopard, I downloaded the broken file, fixed it, gave it a new name, then uploaded the new file to the server.  The broken one is still there.  Downloading it doesn't remove it from the server.
18:20 < prawn> ExoUNX: overwriting your rootfs on the fly is a bit of a gamble, i once accidentally did it and my session crashed halfway through. if you only want to nuke certain important files, do use shred.
18:20 < pnbeast> ExoUNX. then you're fine.  Good luck.
18:20 < lunaphyte> specifically, i want to find unix sockets currently open by an already running ssh-agent
18:20 < uplime> kurahaupo: are you sure its not the document processor fucking things up under certain conditions?
18:20 < ExoUNX> Never get why I have to explain my life story on IRC just to ask how to wipe a rootfs while using it
18:21 < Psi-Jack> kuahara: So in other words, what you're doing.... Is doing nothing.
18:21 < ExoUNX> Thanks for the help
18:21 < Psi-Jack> kuahara: My finger points to whatever's "processing" the files.
18:21 < prawn> lunaphyte: lsof -p $pid
18:21 < kuahara> uplime, yes.  We're sure because when we save the new file and upload it (overwriting the broken file in the process), the same case data is fetched and the same .htm file is used
18:21 < kuahara> and everything works fine
18:21 < pnbeast> ExoUNX, "while using it"?  That may not work.
18:21 < leopard> kuahara: you said there's garbage in the file. what kind of garbage? any clues there
18:22 < kuahara> give me a minute.  I'll capture the header that shows up.
18:22 < lunaphyte> prawn: thanks, i'd tried that, but don't get the desired results
18:22 < ExoUNX> pnbeast, does shred load itself entirely into RAM?
18:22 < lunaphyte> prawn: http://dpaste.com/2HBF363
18:23 < pnbeast> ExoUNX, who cares?  "shred" is an interesting idea that protects from a non-existent threat while ignoring real (but unlikely) threats.
18:23 < lunaphyte> as root it does work
18:27 < spare> shred does work ? if copy a file to ext2 on usb it takes minutes to sync removing a file instantly syncs because it doesnt delete any data it just removes access to it and i store all my self signed root authortites on it : /
18:28 < leopard> ExoUNX: if you only have ssh access to this machine then you're unlikely to accomplish what you're trying to do. is the physical storage of this machine stored on a raid array? if so you may never be completely sure that anything has been perfectly erased
18:29 < kuahara> grr.  I can't even capture the header again.  I'll try to find a screenshot.  Apparently just running the diff on the 2 files also fixed the broken copy.  Calling to make sure no one else touched this document in the last 10 minutes.
18:31 < Artemis3> spare, don't use ext2 use ext4 without journal :)
18:32 < lunaphyte> it looks like with ss, i can see the socket, but can't correlate to a specific pid
18:32 < Artemis3> spare, or f2fs or nilfs2...
18:35 < ExoUNX> leopard, so what you're saying is that I should put the server inside a hypernova and only then can I be 99% sure?
18:35 < leopard> kuahara: diff can't modify file headers. it really sounds like the document processor is screwing something up. This sounds like it might be a filesystem issue?
18:35 < kuahara> leopard, but why would it mess it up repeatedly, over and over again all the way up until we download and reupload that document
18:36 < kuahara> and only then does it finally start working
18:37 < leopard> ExoUNX: well we don't know the extent of alien technology and their ability to read your server log history, so maybe 98%
18:37 < kuahara> I can't imagine why just resaving it would fix anything.  unless it changes the document encoding or whatever during the save operation, but another guy is saying he's fixed it by reuploading without saving and resolved the issue that way as well.
18:38 < ExoUNX> leopard, at that point I'd just leave it up to entropy
18:38 < kuahara> I'm going back a year or so, but I'm pretty sure I've uploaded without saving before and noticed the issue was not resolved.
18:38 < leopard> kuahara: it could definitely be an encoding issue. what filesystem is on the server?
18:39 < leopard> what's modifying the htm files? is it an internal tool or proprietary software
18:39 < kuahara> ext4
18:39 < kuahara> When I "fix" the htm file, I'm just opening it in notepad++, adding/removing a 1, then saving it and uploading again
18:40 < kuahara> the geniuses that created them in the first place used Microsoft Word and saved as filter html
18:40 < leopard> to what are you adding the 1
18:40 < kuahara> I literally just hit 1, backspace, save.
18:41 < kuahara> save in notepad++ is backlit and unusable until you make a change, even if you undo the change right away
18:41 < leopard> definitely an encoding issue
18:41 < kuahara> so you're saying that overnight, the document encoding on the linux server is changing?
18:42 < leopard> no
18:42 < leopard> so you're saying someone is saving an html file from word to the linux server, then somebody else comes along and can't open the file?
18:42 < jackbrown> hello anyone can help me please
18:42 < kuahara> a user will call in and complain about this issue.  I'll download a document, make and undo a change, save the document, upload it back to the server (overwriting the broken copy) and then they are good to go for the day.
18:42 < leopard> but if you download it yourself and reupload it, then they can open the file?
18:42 < kuahara> A day or two later, the same problem will be present on the same file again
18:43 < bls> jackbrown: ask linux questions, not for generic help
18:43 < kuahara> and I have to do the same "fix" again.  It's the weirdest thing we've ever seen, but it happens all the time.
18:43 < jackbrown> I'm trying to access to my home directorty from Linux Live version but I have no permission, I have password and user of that computer I'm trying to copy home. I'm doing that because it doesn't boot ACPI problem on boot (acpi error method parse/execution failed /_PR.CPU0._PDC)
18:43 < jackbrown> please help
18:43 < leopard> have you checked your file access logs to see who/what is modifying that file in the meantime?
18:45 < leopard> because it sounds like this file is updated pretty frequently, my guess is word is saving it with a weird encoding that's preventing the other people down the line from opening the file
18:45 < Welcius> Hello! How can I mount a partition to a mountpoint as root in a way that users distinct than root cant access it?
18:45 < jackbrown> leopard: can you guide me please, it's really important I have all my data. Now I'm using Live version, If I try to boot it shows ACPI errors and give me recovery shell
18:45 < kuahara> 1 sec, I might be able to capture the header again (someone asked earlier).  Turns out I was in the wrong account when I tried to capture a minute ago.
18:45 < bls> yeah, someone on the latest and greatest saving it in a way it's inaccessible to people with older versions
18:45 < jackbrown> leopard: can you help me ? Fix the ACPI problem or access th HOME to copy it is the same for me
18:46 < revel> Welcius: What filesystem?
18:46 < Welcius> revel: ext4
18:46 < kuahara> leopard, the file is only generated with Word by some users.  Once it is uploaded to the linux server, only the document processor on the linux server ever touches it after that.
18:46 < bls> Welcius: they already should be able to
18:46 < leopard> then the document processor is stripping some ecoding information from the file
18:46 < kuahara> I don't know of other routines that might be running during the night (for backup purposes or whatever) that might also be touching it, but it never sees a Win OS or anything after that... except for this band-aid we're putting on it
18:47 < Welcius> I mean, I want to mount for example /dev/sdb4 at /backup and only allow root to access it, other users should get permission denied
18:47 < pnbeast> Welcius, set permissions above the mount point so that only root can access it.
18:47 < kuahara> leopard, it might be.  If it is, it only does it maybe every 10th or 20th time or so because they can usually issue citations all day long after we fix it.
18:47 < Welcius> I want them to don't be able to even read
18:47 < kuahara> It'll be a day or two before we hear from them again
18:47 < bls> Welcius: then set the permissions so they cant
18:47 < revel> Welcius: Mounting it in a directory that non-root users can't access (i.e /root/mnt, or /mnt/root/something, with /mnt/root being 700 root:root) works, I suppose.
18:48 < bls> so you're using tools other than from microsoft to operate on a their proprietary format? not much you can do there
18:48 < Welcius> hmmm is there any way to mount it with only root access specifying an option in mount?
18:48 < revel> Or... Just set 700 on the top-level dir of the mount, I suppose, if you don't care about it possibly being unreadable to everyone but root whereever it's mounted next.
18:48 < revel> Not if it's a FS with UNIX permissions, afaik.
18:48 < bls> Welcius: why? there are already permissions mechanisms for this
18:48 < leopard> kuahara: it sounds like an issue of the document processor having some essential bits hardcoded, so only when, say, the title is over X characters, or some other field is out of bounds does the error happen
18:49 < kuahara> maybe.  I definitely like that suggestion more.  It gives me something else to look into.  Give me another minute or so and I might be able to reproduce the problem.
18:49 < Welcius> I was following a lab session but maybe I understood it wrong
18:50 < leopard> set aside some copies of files that people are opening without issue, and then the next time somebody has an issue, so some cross-analysis that way
18:50 < bls> Welcius: ah, so homework
18:50 < Welcius> so it is sufficient just to set permission to the mountpoint before mounting right?
18:50 < Welcius> practicing for an exam
18:50 < bls> not if that's not what your teacher wants you to say
18:50 < pnbeast> Welcius, to mount it accessible only to root with a "mount" option, get the source to the mount command, edit it to include your option and set the desired perms, compile it and install it on your machine(s).  Done!
18:51 < Welcius> That's rather a hardcore way to do it I guess
18:51 < webstrand> Welcius: Can you use umask?
18:51 < pnbeast> There might be options I don't know about, too. Permissions are the obvious and simple way.
18:52 < Welcius> The exact statement is: Mount the partition to /backup in a way that only root has access
18:52 < webstrand> Welcius: mount with -oumask=077,uid=0,gid=0
18:52 < webstrand> that should restrict the mount to root only
18:52 < Welcius> oh that may be what he wants
18:53 < bls> that doesn't work for ext4 does it?
18:54 < kuahara> ok, I managed to capture the garbage that appears at the top of the document when users are having trouble:    https://i.imgur.com/455BNPI.png
18:54 < webstrand> man mount doesn't indicate that it does, but I'm sure that I've done that before with ext4
18:54 < kuahara> This is the problem that is fixed by simply downloading and reuploading
18:54 < Welcius> Im searching through the manpages of mount
18:54 < bls> pretty sure that option is only for non-POSIX FSs
18:55 < Welcius> may the uid and gid be 0 by default?
18:55 < bls> i.e. ones without permissions built in
18:56 < jeffree> Lachezar: I don't see how that answers the question
18:57 < jeffree> Lachezar: does it mean that the package will create the directory if it doesn't exist?
18:57 < nekoseam> test
18:57 < Welcius> alright got it! thanks guys
18:57 < APic> nekoseam: Passed.
18:57 < kuahara> For what it's worth, line 463 of the document it tried to process contained the following:    <p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>
18:58 < kuahara> And the only zeros I see are the ones in font-size
19:00 < leopard> if you remove the ".0" from "10.0pt" does it work?
19:00 < kuahara> hard to test because if I save the document even without removing the .0, it starts working
19:00 < leopard> edit it directly on the machine
19:01 < leopard> just open the file in an editor
19:01 < bls> sounds like your document processor is broken/saving invalid content. you should be focusing on that
19:02 < kuahara> that's above me.  there's a dev team for that and I'm too far down the totem pole to convince them there's anything wrong with anything they do
19:02 < Welcius> Another quick question, If I lose a root account password from a system can I boot with another system then chroot to the root of the filesystem of the old system and execute passwd root to change the password?
19:02 < revel> I've definitely done that...
19:02 < kuahara> I could get one of our devs to try convincing them
19:03 < kuahara> I also about never work with linux, so I don't know how to edit this document directly on the server.
19:04 < bls> send them a copy of the bad document and which versions of which applications can't deal with it
19:04 < leopard> try 'nano filename'
19:04 < kuahara> I know vim is present.  I'll try nano
19:04 < bls> you're not going to be able to edit a word doc on linux in any reliable way without setting up wine
19:04 < revel> Make sure to run `alias nano=vi` first :D
19:04 < pnbeast> Welcius, you could do your homework the old-fashioned way, by trying things yourself.
19:04 < kuahara> it's a .htm file.  It's plain text
19:05 < jcarder_> Does anyone here know a good cloud service like Dropbox for storing backups, that is free and open source?
19:05 < bls> is it well formed? could you use xmllint on it?
19:05 < bls> jcarder_: google drive
19:05 < Welcius> pnbeast: not homework :p exam tomorrow
19:05 < leopard> bls: its a ms word generated html file....
19:06 < pnbeast> jcarder_, it works even better if you throw a random mention of "linux" in there, somewhere.
19:06 < leopard> xmllint might crash the machine
19:06 < jcarder_> bls: is that foss and secure?
19:06 < Welcius> I think that makes sense because I've made update-grub for another system using chroot
19:06 < kuahara> I don't believe any html generated by Word or any other editor meant for saving web pages created by Microsoft is "well formed"; not even close.
19:06 < bls> jcarder_: that's jup to you to decide
19:06 < kuahara> Also this is a production server, let's not crash it.
19:06 < jcarder_> pnbeast: lol
19:06 < bls> xmllint isn't going to crash a machine
19:06 < jcarder_> bls: personally I have trust issues with google
19:07 < leopard> I was joking, don't worry, xmllint won't crash anything
19:07 < bls> jcarder_: then you're probably out of luck, no one is going to give you free online storage without some form of spying/advertising as compensation
19:08 < jcarder_> bls: yeah thats waht I thought :(
19:08 < jcarder_> bls: but I guess I could just encrypt everything I put on there with GPG or similiar
19:09 < bls> if you're willing to go to slightly more expensive than free, there's tarsnap, or you could get a VPS working with borg, gitannex, rsnapshot, etc
19:09 < Alexander-47u> hi all
19:10 < bls> kuahara: this being MS, have you checked to see if there is/isn't a BOM in the working and non-working versions?
19:10 < jcarder_> bls: thanks I'll look into it :)
19:10 < kuahara> I opened it in nano.  I should mention that while I can remove the ".0" from "10.0", that span line with the 10.0 size font is used ... everywhere
19:10 < kuahara> all over the document
19:11 < kuahara> Anyway.  I removed it.  How do I save in nano?  =o
19:11 < bls> whatever keybinding is labelled "Write Out"
19:11 < kuahara> ^O
19:11 < fattredd> Ctrl+O
19:11 < fattredd> Ctrl+x to exit
19:12 < kuahara> ok, so the document is working fine now... but at the moment, I believe it is only because I used nano to save the document
19:12 < kuahara> that span line with the "10.0" is in probably 50 more places in that document
19:13 < kuahara> would that save operation in nano have changed anything about the document encoding?
19:13 < pnbeast> Microsift, could you stop being annoying?
19:13 < bls> other than the BOM, other dumb things to check are trailing newline before EOF, improperly escaped SGML entities, bad CDATA sections
19:13 < Mekely> pnbeast: ?
19:13 < pnbeast> Mekely, stop changing nicks.
19:14 < Mekely> pnbeast: r u going to make me?
19:14 < Mekely> i litterly changed twice
19:14 < Mekely> once as a joke
19:14 < Mekely> then back to my original
19:14 < pnbeast> Nope, I'm not going to do anything else with you.  You're too annoying.
19:14 < Mekely> pnbeast: ok then piss off
19:15 < leopard> kuahara: no
19:16 < kuahara> is bom like the document object model or something?
19:16 < leopard> DOM
19:16 < kuahara> I doubt it would be something like a newline at EOF because after saving the document, it works fine.
19:17 < CrazyTux> https://www.linuxmint.com/rel_tara_cinnamon_whatsnew.php
19:17 < kuahara> I'm trying not to consider anything similar that wouldn't have an effect after simply saving the file.
19:17 < Welcius> Are backups usually gzipped?
19:17 < kuahara> basically, if there's a line break right at the end, after I perform the save operation, that linebreak is still there when the document works.
19:18 < leopard> it could be something like a non-breaking character
19:18 < Welcius> Or only tar'red?
19:18 < pnbeast> Welcius, who says either one is true?  Backups are handled in a zillion ways, though compression is common. (and de-dupe more and more, these days, too)
19:18 < kuahara> welcius, tar.gz
19:19 < Welcius> hmm, so i guess it depends of the situation too
19:19 < Welcius> thanks
19:20 < kuahara> I thought you were asking specifically how we're backing up these files  =o
19:20 < kuahara> I thought you were interested in my problem!
19:20 < Welcius> xD
19:21 < Welcius> Well there's one thing I don't understand
19:21 < Welcius> I know complete and incremental backups
19:21 < pnbeast> kuahara, I'm sure Welcius is deeply interested in your problem, and after his test tomorrow he'll probably start working on it directly.
19:21 < kuahara> which test is that?
19:21 < Welcius> But I don't quite understand what a reverse incremental backup is
19:21 < kuahara> backing up everything that didn't change?
19:21 < leopard> kuahara: the answer is going to come from analyzing the files that work compared to files that don't work, but on the server. apps like notepad++ do too much behind the scenes
19:22 < Welcius> Does it join a complete backup with incremental to make a new complete?
19:22 < Welcius> and then make an incremental?
19:22 < Welcius> couldn't find info about reverse incremental
19:22 < DLange> that's a Veeam marketing term for updating backups to the latest snapshot
19:22 < DLange> https://www.veeam.com/kb1933
19:22 < Welcius> kuahara: uni test tomorrow for Operating Systems Administration
19:22 < leopard> overall it sounds like your toolchain is pretty fragile though, this is something that you should probably escalate. minor annoyances turn into major problems when you're not paying attention
19:23 < DLange> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incremental_backup#Reverse_incremental
19:23 < Welcius> I've to study both for that and for linux kernel management operating system oriented for tomorrow
19:24 < pnbeast> I don't know your courses, profs, exams, etc., but my bet is that IRC is a lower-yield study investment than your course material.
19:25 < DLange> irc'ing during the test is helpful but probably frowned upon
19:25 < bls> Q1) How do you X? A1) Ask ##linux Q2) How do you Y? A2) Ask ##linux
19:25 < Welcius> Having a tight schedule right now hehe
19:26 < pnbeast> Welcius, that was my point.
19:26 < Welcius> pnbeast: Don't you think so, slides aren't complete
19:27 < Welcius> I am studying from lab sessions but they lack much information
19:27 < kuahara> well.  I guess I'll re-escalate this.  was hoping to go to our dev team with more information than just the symptom the end user is running to
19:27 < pnbeast> Well, if your "course material" is slides, maybe not.
19:27 < kuahara> since this ticket has been opened and closed a dozen times since last year
19:27 < Welcius> Mostly 80% of my course material in my uni are slides though
19:27 < bls> does the ticket has a copy of the bad document and which applications can't open it?
19:28 < CrazyTux> hello, has anybody tested Linux Mint 19?
19:30 < leopard> kuahara: sorry I can't be more helpful, there's a lot of variables going on with your situation
19:34 < ayecee> CrazyTux: come on man, you should know better
19:36 < CrazyTux> ayecee, I have not tested it yet.
19:36 < ayecee> didn't suggest that you had.
19:36 < bls> ayecee: is it stable? would it be good for desktop users?
19:36 < ayecee> classic
19:37 < CrazyTux> ayecee, I think by default all the updates could be applied now.
19:38 < TheWild> hello
19:38 < dgurney> hi
19:38 < kuahara> nah, you're good.  You guys have been more than helpful.  It gave me a few more things to look into.  I appreciate it.
19:38 < CrazyTux> ayecee, was that not an issue? that Mint held back some critical updates/upgrades.
19:38 < TheWild> is there a way to get the size in bytes or sectors of *mounted* filesystem?
19:38 < ayecee> CrazyTux: you're talking as if we've had a conversation about this before.
19:38 < ayecee> CrazyTux: we haven't.
19:38 < bls> TheWild: you mean like with df?
19:38 < kuahara> any chance there's an easy way to create a job that opens all the .htm files in a folder in nano at 4am
19:39 < kuahara> and just resave them each morning
19:39 < CrazyTux> ayecee, about Mint's update policy?
19:39 < kuahara> that way if we get stuck waiting a thousand years on a fix from our toolkit group, we have a workable solution to hold us over
19:39 < bls> kuahara: do you have a copy of the bad document? can you try `echo >> doc.htm` do see if that does anything?
19:40 < CrazyTux> ayecee, an interesting new feature in Mint 19 is Timeshift.
19:40 < kuahara> bls not anymore.  I resaved it in nano earlier and it is functioning fine now.
19:40 < ayecee> CrazyTux: i am not interested.
19:40 < CrazyTux> ayecee, why not?
19:40 < kuahara> I can tell you that when the problem is rearing its ugly head that something else is happening within the document as well.  That header I put in the screenshot earlier shows up, but the rest of the document generates.
19:40 < bls> so a hexdump on a bad copy to check for the presence/absence of a BOM and a trailing newline would be quick and easy things to verify and/or hack a fix for
19:40 < kuahara> Except instead of the case specific information getting loaded, it also shows the code that serves as a placeholder getting written directly to the document
19:41 < TheWild> bls: holy crap I'm dumb. Tens of times I was typing 'df -h' to gen the size in MB or GB; df by default displays size in sectors so I kept typing -h just out of habit
19:41 < ayecee> CrazyTux: i meant only that you should know better than to ask "has anyone done X" questions here.
19:41 < TheWild> thanks bls
19:41 < leopard> wait, that screenshot is text that gets added to the htm?
19:41 < kuahara> so instead of a name, I'll see something like  [[CRDT+COIN_1]]
19:41 < CrazyTux> ayecee, ok
19:41 < bls> ah, that definitely points to a SW bug
19:41 < kuahara> leopard, no.  the text in the screenshot was garbage that appears at the top of the document processor
19:42 < kuahara> bls, but after I save the document, everything works 100% fine
19:42 < bls> does the file get updated/reprocessed on edit? it may be enough to `touch` all the files
19:42 < kuahara> the document is a template that is never saved over by the user
19:42 < TheWild> the X problem is: Windows somewha f'd up the first sector of partitioned disk. I know that first partition starts at 0x100000 and there was no free space between partitions.
19:42 < TheWild> testdisk is too much
19:42 < kuahara> they can bounce from case to case and print citations for every case they work in and every time they call that document, it'll populate with the name of the defendant in that case and other case specific information.
19:43 < leopard> kuahara: it looks like the information that's getting populated is the wrong type than the document processor is expecting, now that i look at the error again
19:44 < kuahara> leopard if there was a problem with the data being passed in, then saving the htm file wouldn't fix anything
19:44 < kuahara> because after the save, the document would still be broken.  the process will just fetch and feed it the same information the 2nd time around as it did the first time around
19:47 < Minnebo> Hi guys
19:47 < Minnebo> grep -rnw 'path' -e 'pattern'
19:47 < Minnebo> i'm looking for a specifix http://googleapi thing
19:48 < Minnebo> I can find the string but it are like 100 hits :(
19:48 < Minnebo> Can I replace them all with https?
19:48 < koala_man> you can use sed to search&replace in all files
19:49 < bls> Minnebo: https://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashFAQ/021
19:49 < Minnebo> I found this online; grep -rl matchstring somedir/ | xargs sed -i 's/string1/string2/g'
19:49 < uplime> gross
19:49 < uplime> don't do that
19:50 < Minnebo> :D
19:50 < bls> Minnebo: you don't need to use grep at all for that
19:50 < uplime> find + sed
19:50 < uplime> or just ed
19:50 < uplime> sed*
19:50 < Minnebo> all the escape \ / \ are so confusing for my windows brain xD
19:51 < Minnebo> grep -rnw '/home/vakantiehuis-charlou/public_html/' -e 'http://fonts.googleapis.com'
19:51 < Minnebo>  --> https://fonts.googleapis.com
19:52 < koala_man> sed -i -e 's#http:\(//fonts.googleapis.com\)#https:\1#g'  /home/vakantiehuis-charlou/public_html/**/*   if you're in zsh or bash with globstar enabled
19:52 < koala_man> (shopt -s globstar)
19:53 < Minnebo> gonna test
19:54 < Welcius> does tar with --newer include directories before the date specified?
19:54 < Welcius> im using --newer and trying to compress /etc and all the directories are being included
19:54 < morf> lulz
19:56 < Welcius> could it be that 200 directories are being modified in a lapse of less than 10 seconds?
19:56 < Welcius> on /etc
19:56 < Welcius> i find it kinda weird
19:57 < Welcius> tar --newer=./old_backup.tar -cvf backup_inc.tar /etc/
19:57 < Welcius> that's what im running
19:57 < morf> Welcius: getting same results (empty dirs)
19:58 < Welcius> morf: do you think its related to /etc or newer may work like this?
19:58 < boblamont> Is there  a way to modify this https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/sw6WZDjGqG/ so that it doesn't include totals in parent dirs?
19:58 < morf> Welcius: https://serverfault.com/questions/536219/is-it-possible-to-exclude-empty-directories-when-creating-a-tar
19:59 < Minnebo> any guide on escaping \/\/ ?
20:00 < uplime> Minnebo: not sure how much of a guide you need... what are you trying to do?
20:00 < meyou_> \\\/\\\/
20:00 < Minnebo> : D
20:00 < bls> Minnebo: the guide is to use a different delimiter so you don't have to escape anything
20:00 < TheWild> okay so, I have a little problem. "sudo mount -o offset=16107175424 /dev/sdd /tmp/data" claims wrong fs type, bad option etc., but "sudo hd -s 16107175424 /dev/sdd" clearly shows the NTFS signature.
20:00 < TheWild> hmm, might be that fishy 100M bootloader
20:00 < Minnebo> find /home/ -type f -exec sed -i 's/http://fonts.googleapis.com/https://fonts.googleapis.com/g' {} + --> sed: -e expression #1, char 10: unknown option to `s'
20:01 < bls> although you've been given several detailed answers and guides in increasing order of specificity and have ignored them all
20:01 < Welcius> morf: isn't that answer ignoring the newer than part?
20:02 < uplime> Minnebo: sed 's,
20:02 < uplime> NickChambers-iMac:~ Nick$ echo foobar | sed s,foo,bar,
20:02 < uplime> barbar
20:03 < Minnebo> uplime, should the / in between googleapic.com/https:// also be replaced by , ?
20:03 < bls> uplime: koala_man has already shown him how, so :|
20:03 < uplime> oh I missed that
20:03 < uplime> Minnebo: any sed delimiter should be replaced
20:04 < Minnebo> in the middle and at the end as well then probs?
20:04 < uplime> if its a delimiter for sed, then yes
20:04 < Minnebo> find /home/ -type f -exec sed -i 's,http://fonts.googleapis.com,https://fonts.googleapis.com,g' {} +
20:04 < Minnebo> like that
20:04 < uplime> sure
20:05 < Minnebo> hoho works
20:05 < Minnebo> #HackerMan
20:06 < aerozoic> wazup peeps! Anybodty know how to make the audio work for intel cherry trail chipsets?
20:07 < boblamont> I just tried adding ! = empty from one of the guides you just gave to Welcius since it omitted empty dirs, but it didn't change my results, it still kept both the parent dirs and other empty dirs in the results
20:07 < Minnebo> aerozoic,
20:07 < Minnebo> Ubuntu 18.04 seems to do the trick
20:08 < aerozoic> i'm currently on 18.04
20:08 < aerozoic> Xubuntu actually
20:10 < Welcius> boblamont: i think this works find /etc/ -newer ./backup.tar -empty | xargs tar -cvf backup_inc.tar --files-from -
20:10 < Welcius> ugly though
20:10 < Welcius> and probably not very efficient
20:11 < Welcius> does that xargs fork for each file?
20:12 < boblamont> shoot, can whoever just sent me that answer do it again? when I clicked on the window I managed to close it... sorry
20:18 < kuahara> So is there a way to have a job use nano to open and resave all the .htm files every morning before users get to work?
20:19 < Psi-Jack> Ugh.. That's just silly.
20:20 < Psi-Jack> Fix the REAL problem.
20:20 < kuahara> The toolkit group has to fix the real problem
20:20 < Psi-Jack> Well, make them.
20:20 < kuahara> I'd like to alleviate user frustration while they wait the months it will be before tkt gets back to them with a solution
20:21 < kuahara> those guys aren't just sitting around waiting for us to bring them problems.  It'll be a while.
20:21 < Psi-Jack> So, make them fix their own bugs, by making them struggle with the issue at hand, :)
20:22 < kuahara> so is there not a way to do what I was asking?
20:23 < Psi-Jack> What you're asking is silly and kinda stupid, honestly.
20:23 < Psi-Jack> You could alternatively cat file > file
20:26 < oerheks_> "a job use nano to open and resave all the .htm files every morning" ... cron
20:26 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, but nano is a TUI, not a cli. :p
20:26 < kuahara> the cron job can use nano to open and save?
20:26 < kuahara> that's kinda what I was getting at
20:26 < kuahara> I don't know if a CLI way to make nano save a document
20:26 < Psi-Jack> Have you tried  the cat method?
20:26 < kuahara> and before today, I didn't know nano existed, so..
20:26 < kuahara> 1 sec
20:27 < NGC3982>  Minnebo: what was the purpose of that googleapi find procedure?
20:27 < Psi-Jack> ...
20:27 < Psi-Jack> What is it you do there, exactly? :p
20:27 < boblamont> How do I output https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/sw6WZDjGqG/ to a file? tacking > file.txt to the end (before done) didn't work and I didn't see an option in the wc manpage.
20:27 < kuahara> I just did cat file file and it printed the entire contents of the file to the screen
20:27 < Minnebo> NGC3982, so I can edit it to use HTTPS
20:28 < Psi-Jack> kurahaupo: Right. That's what cat does.
20:28 < kuahara> Psi-Jack IT.  Windows domain administration, software support, and explain to people that I don't know how to fix their iphone
20:28 < Psi-Jack> Now, cat file > file
20:28 < Minnebo> Chrome blocks that http call, because I force https on my website, if you allow a HTTP call, you'll get a red cross over your https cert for mixed content
20:28 < Psi-Jack> That's the same file, to the same file, thus re-writing it.
20:29 < kuahara> the output was cat:  file.htm: input file is output file
20:29 < kuahara> I'm guessing that's Centos' way of saying it didn't do anything
20:29 < kuahara> I guess I could cat file1 > file2
20:29 < kuahara> then do it again; file2 > file1
20:29 < kuahara> I need another broken file to test
20:30 < Psi-Jack> cat file1 > .file1 && mv .file1 file1
20:30 < uplime> why not cp?
20:30 < kuahara> if that worrks, I'll send each file to dumpster.txt then cat dumpster.txt > original.file
20:30 < kuahara> works*
20:31 < kuahara> that cat command seems to have broken my document
20:31 < Psi-Jack> kuahara: Just to cat $file > .$file && mv -f .$file $file
20:31 < kuahara> I need to upload the backup I had to the server again.
20:32 < kuahara> whatever cat file > file did, the system didn't like it
20:32 < Psi-Jack> That did nothing, it refused to.
20:33 < kuahara> I'll try again
20:33 < kuahara> the backup copy is working
20:34 < kuahara> yep, heh
20:34 < kuahara> definitely breaks it
20:34 < kuahara> browser crashes and everything
20:35 < leopard> cat just outputs the text of the file to stdout
20:35 < revel> The contents of a file, regardless of type.
20:35 < NGC3982> im on ubuntu server, and im noticing snap is failing with apt-get upgrade because of ufw block. i dont use snap afaik. is it ..important?
20:36 < kuahara> I can demonstrate if you want lol.  This is breaking the file for sure.
20:36 < kuahara> and my uploading the original copy back to the server is fixing it
20:36 < kuahara> I'll try the other method you said
20:36 < kuahara> and send it to a new file
20:36 < UristMcRM|Tux> the cat will refuse to output to the same file but the file still gets written so you end up with an empty file
20:36 < kuahara> that's kinda the behavior I'm seeing.  I get an all white screen where the document should be
20:36 < kuahara> then the document processor crashes
20:37 < UristMcRM|Tux> the 2nd metheod of cating to a new file tdhon moving it should work
20:37 < revel> UristMcRM|Tux: I thought it was more like "shell empties file, THEN cat reads it, THEN that stdout (nothing) gets written to the file.
20:37 < revel> "
20:38 < kuahara> 2nd method works fine
20:38 < Psi-Jack> Kinda depends on shell settings.
20:38 < revel> s/empties/truncates/
20:38 < Psi-Jack> In my current zsh setup, I can't accidently squash an existing file with > newfile, it will reject it because said file already exists,
20:38 < Psi-Jack> But, defaultly, it would truncate it. :)
20:39 < kuahara> now how do I do this for every .htm file in the folder.  I'll just  cat file1.htm > temp.htm && mv -f temp.htm file1.htm
20:39 < kuahara> and repeat for files 2 through n
20:39 < Psi-Jack> kuahara: Script with find.
20:39 < kuahara> I'm used to .ps1 scripts  =o
20:39 < kuahara> and batch files
20:40 < Psi-Jack> for read file; do .... done < <(find /path -name '*.htm)
20:40 < Psi-Jack> Err, not for... while.
20:40 < Psi-Jack> while read file; do
20:40 < UristMcRM|Tux> kuahara: then you should be happy since those are far more convoluted
20:41 < GNU\colossus> you always want 'while read -r'
20:41 < GNU\colossus> also, that do...done block might better become a find -exec ... construct
20:43 < boblamont> when I pipe to tee, it only lists the file count, not the dir names
20:51 < The0x539> How can I configure LightDM to use the bing image of the day for a background?
20:51 < noway96> Hi, I have these hard drive model numbers in a database. The problem is that these model numbers are not just the model number. Some of them have part numbers, some of them have manufacturer names. I'm trying to figure out how to prune out the model number from the other stuff. My though is this 1) replace all nona-alphanumeric characters with a space 2) split on white space 3) choose the word with longest length as the
20:51 < noway96> model number. This makes sense because len(modelnumber) > len(manufacturer name) and len(model number) > len(part number) (you can't have more parts for a model than you have models, can you? you could, but that's not practical...)
20:52 < kuahara> looks like toolkit found a possible bug in their document processor....finally
20:52 < kuahara> so this band-aid is being put on hold
20:53 < revel> The0x539: I don't think you easily can without adding some sort of boot service which fetches the image somehow and then overwrites a picture you set the location of to be the background for LightDM.
20:55 < revel> Unless they have a bunch of network code in LightDM that I'm not aware of.
20:57 < Minnebo> NGC3982, Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of 400 () seems like it does not work xD
20:57 < Minnebo> https googleapi forget it :(
20:58 < NGC3982> Minnebo: :(
21:01 < The0x539> revel: I'm not opposed to such a setup
21:01 < revel> Well... Good luck :D
21:03 < TheWild> making an image of an old disk then writing it to a new disk. What could go wrong?
21:04 < boblamont> ok, I finally got it out to a file (mostly) by using script file.txt before running the command. There are still problems. It didn't grab the last part of the output (but enough where I could manually copy/paste the remainder out of the terminal window into the file). Also, the directory names are truncated. Is there a way to force it to show the full directory path instead?
21:04 < TheWild> physical block size of disks don't match and some partitions are unaligned
21:10 < hexnewbie> TheWild: Sounds like a serious performance issues, depending on which partitions those are. You may copy the partitions or filesystems, not whole disk.
21:10 < hexnewbie> TheWild: Unless the unaligned partition is used for, like, /boot
21:12 < jim> so the consequences of having unaligned partitions, is you'd take a big disk i/o performance hit?
21:12 < Dagmar> No
21:13 < Dagmar> Mainly you just wind up with some sectors not allocated
21:13 < Dagmar> ...and that's not really going to happen from cloning to a larger disk
21:13 < TheWild> hexnewbie: It was NTFS partition. I couldn't mount it under Linux. I tried Windows to see how it will read it, but pointed out I forgot to set partition type to NTFS at first. Set it properly, but it claimed "The file or directory is corrupted and unreadable". I've checked the disk in hex editor, and the partition in fact was starting with proper NTFS signature.
21:14 < Dagmar> Windows doesn't care.  Windows _trust_ the partition type flags.
21:14 < VectorX> [WHOIS] icedtea is on ##linux.
21:14 < revel> Is VectorX a bot?
21:14 < VectorX> [WHOIS] Gasoline is on ##linux.
21:14 < Dagmar> Linux only really cares about those when it's searching for swap and LVM stuff.  Otherwise, it looks inside the partition to see what's in there for real
21:14 < VectorX> [WHOIS] puff is on ##linux #ubuntu ##windows.
21:14 < lnnb> icedtea who are you!!!!???
21:14 < revel> Great.
21:14 < VectorX> [WHOIS] Nd-69-m is on ##linux.
21:15 < toothe> is there a way to see what video driver/X11 configuration Linux is using?
21:15 < toothe> Ubuntu is using?
21:15 < Isky> toothe: It'll be in the conf file
21:15 < toothe> Isky: which? :)
21:15 < lnnb> do you pronounce that "ooobuntu" or "yewbuntu" ?
21:15 < Isky> that I can't remember the location of with this sec
21:15 < hexnewbie> Good thing I disabled joins/parts
21:15 < Isky> but like.. /etc/XOrg? maybe?
21:16 < rascul> toothe /etc/X11/xorg.conf
21:16 < Isky> rascul: thank you!
21:16 < morf> lnnb: ew buntu
21:16 < TheWild> I'll align the partitions and see what happens.
21:16 < toothe> rascul: I don't believe Ubuntu has that.
21:16 < Isky> I don't have any linux stuff with a gui atm
21:16 < rascul> although X does auto config now so there might not even be a config
21:16 < Isky> ... oh
21:16 < Isky> ew
21:16 < rascul> check the log after it starts
21:16 < VectorX> revel sorry was testing a script
21:16 < Isky> toothe: there's a log.. should be in /var/log
21:16 < Dagmar> One does not simply align the partitions
21:16 < rascul> /var/log/Xorg.0.log or so maybe
21:16 < revel> Okay.
21:17 < Isky> My one system, at home, that uses xorg does not autoconfig. :P
21:17 < Isky> but it's an ever evolving LFS I started in 1999.
21:17 < hexnewbie> TheWild: Actually, what do you mean by not aligned?
21:18 < Dagmar> If you clone an entire disk from a 512-byte block size to one with a 4k block size, the partition table will likely be knackered
21:18 < Dagmar> Partitions not aligning with cylinder boundaries is something DOS would get very upset about, which is the only reason we've got the warning
21:18 < Dagmar> (other than it's probably a sign someone screwed up badly)
21:18 < lnnb> Isky: nice, i got one of those too. the drivers (input/output) are insanely hacked up, but works great with no special permissions needed by the xorg process
21:21 < lnnb> initially i thought i had to do some xwayland type nonsense, but turns out it's not really needed in my case
21:22 < rascul> i stopped building X when they split it off into 98342650863540864235816943865942358964381743 different packages
21:23 < lnnb> rascul: go back and look at xfree86's build system, it's horrifying
21:23 < hexnewbie> Ah, XFree86 - the memories
21:23 < rascul> lnnb but it was easy! a couple quick changes to the config then build away
21:24 < bls> gotta love imake
21:24 < fightthewalrus> how can I prevent NetworkManager or another process from messing with my /etc/resolv.conf file every time I boot?
21:24 < hexnewbie> Huh, the name ‘imake’ rings a bell. Does it mean I actually have built XFree86 and don't recall doing it?
21:25 < rascul> hexnewbie it's a definite possibility, i think there was only one other thing in existence (or maybe two) that used imake
21:25 < bls> imake was the X consortiums attempt at something X-aware that predated things like autotools or cmake
21:25 < bls> and all three of them suck to varying degrees
21:28 < rascul> as a user, i would prefer autotools out of those three, as a developer i've only used autotools and not in a complex manner so i can't really compare (but i've heard cmake is pretty nice for the devs)
21:29 < hexnewbie> As a developer, I have nightmares about autotools, and think cmake is a gift from the Gods of computing. As a user, I can't comprehend how cmake is a thing and where is my ./configure.
21:29 < bls> cmake is awesome when everything just works. when it doesn't, it's more opaque and difficult to debug than autotools, but I find shell script and M4 macros way more readable than cmake's odd DSL
21:31 < rascul> hexnewbie that's exactly how i feel as a user
21:32 < hexnewbie> I have implemented a working build parts of a project with autotools only once, and that convinced me to just use plain makefiles for personal stuff until I discovered cmake
21:34 < rascul> i've only written autotools stuff for things that barely required a simple makefile heh
21:34 < pankaj_> Can anybody simply make understand that what is initramfs and why it is required? What it does?
21:35 < bls> pankaj_: it's generally a place to put drivers you need to boot your system so you don't have to have a massive kernel with everything compiled in (or modules that can't be compiled in)
21:36 < bls> and it's kind of grown from there into this minimalist rescue system
21:37 < bls> and it's not required, it just makes administration easier
21:38 < pankaj_> bls: That is the most easiest explanation of initramfs to me.
21:38 < hexnewbie> pankaj_: It's an initial RAM filesystem, loaded from an archived minimal operating system, before your real operating system is started. In the most extreme example, if your operating system is on a networked FS accessed over WiFi, the initramfs is a minimal OS that connects to the WiFi, mounts the network filesystem and switches to the real OS on the newly mounted network FS. Nowadays, it's always used even for minimal stuff - it allows
21:38 < hexnewbie> generic modular user-friendly distros to exist, as they can preload the hard disk drivers to the initramfs. It does even basic stuff like detecting where you installed your OS when your devices changed..
21:38 < ayecee> i'm sorry my post was so long, i didn't have time to make it shorter
21:40 < pankaj_> hexnewbie: OK. I got that network stuff.
21:41 < pankaj_> bls: So, it is not a must for the system. It just makes administration easy. Right?
21:42 < hexnewbie> pankaj_: You'd run into trouble if you started removing it. You *could*, but it's too ingrained. Even the default Grub config generated by grub-mkconfig assumes you have one.
21:42 < revel> I'm doing just fine without one.
21:42 < prussian> it's a must for a system
21:42 < bls> pankaj_: yes, it saves you from having to generate custom kernels or having to create custom automation for booting
21:42 < prussian> except for the most basic of configurations
21:42 < bls> I can't think of a single system I have that needs one
21:43 < bls> but I'm not doing any fancy network booting or having to interact with proprietary RAIDs
21:44 < revel> I don't have LVM/LUKS/ZFS/RAID/anything other fancy like that that needs extra setup before boot and I can just compile ext4 and SCSI/SATA stuff in, so.
21:44 < rascul> distro kernels aren't custom built for your hardware, they have to support everything
21:44 < revel> Mine is.
21:44 < pankaj_> bls: OK. For just making system to work and boot it is fine. Otherwise for advance stuff and proper working of system it is required as hexnewbie suggests?
21:45 < prussian> just assume it's required. working around it is just pointless
21:46 < pankaj_> hexnewbie: Some days ago I downloaded and setup syslinux bootloader. In that I saw that it demands path of both vmlinuz and initramfs. But when I was dealing with grub configuration file I do not see anywhere the path of initramfs being listed in its configuration file.
21:46 < rascul> i imagine that people generally wouldn't have the knowledge to build a proper kernel without initramfs
21:46 < pankaj_> bls: I also have tested it. I did not gave the path of initramfs in the bootloader configuration file and it booted successfully (Although I think I saw some warning scripts).
21:48 < hexnewbie> To boot a regular distro without the initramfs, you'd need to at least build your own kernel and patch your grub-mkconfig to use PARTLABEL or PARTUUID instead of UUID.
21:49 < revel> Huh? I used UUID instead of PARTUUID/LABEL just fine without initramfs...
21:50 < hexnewbie> revel: That's strange, the kernel only supports partlabel and partuuid.
21:52 < revel> Hmm. Actually, I may have been using an initramfs at that point, and then I switched to efistub and switched to PARTUUID because some documentation told me to.
21:54 < shazbotmcnasty> I'm having some issues with spf records on my server and don't know where to get assistance. Anyone know a good place to look? Or does anyone have a lot of experience who may be able to give me a hand?
21:54 < hexnewbie> revel: Er, correction, only PARTUUID at least to the doc I'm reading. PARTLABEL may be unsupported (which is weird, so don't quote me on it)
21:54 < rascul> why would initramfs be needed for partlabel or partuuid?
21:55 < revel> rascul: No, he said that it would be needed for UUID.
21:55 < rascul> oh
21:55 < rascul> what is this UUID referring to?
21:55 < revel> It's pretty short for FAT filesystems, so I'm guessing it's FS-defined?
21:56 < revel> Dunno.
21:56 < revel> And SWAP partitions don't have it.
21:56 < rascul> is this /dev/disk/by-uuid ? i'm confused what specifically is being referred to
21:56 < revel> `blkid` also lists all of them.
21:57 < hexnewbie> rascul: The UUID is a string that different filesystems write in a different place, so the kernel can't know it before the userspace tools that do filesystem magic have been loaded. It speaks PARTUUID, which is the UUID of the *partition*, written in a standard place
21:57 < hexnewbie> rascul: UUID and /dev/disk/by-uuid refer to the filesystem UUID, PARTUUID and /dev/disk/by-partuuid refer to the *partition* UUID
21:58 < rascul> ok, i understand all that, it just wasn't clear to me specifically what you were referring to
21:58 < rascul> how does the kernel get this information from userland?
21:59 < hexnewbie> rascul: All modern distros use the filesystem UUID, so does grub-mkconfig, making them unbootable without initramfs without major reconfiguration. And in some cases patching of distro scripts (as they tend to regenerate grub.cfg on a whim)
22:01 < hexnewbie> Filesystem UUID is somewhat more generic, as it allows you to move your system to a RAID or network device without changing anything in the OS configuration.
22:01 < rascul> ok, but what is the mechanism for this? how does the kernel get such information from userland?
22:02 < rascul> arch wiki says it's part of the filesystem metadata, it seems odd that a kernel fs driver wouldn't be able to get that on its own https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/persistent_block_device_naming#by-uuid
22:02 < hexnewbie> rascul: It does not, it's the initramfs that mounts the real root referred to as UUID=. I think the magic happens in the mount command. The kernel knows about PARTUUID=, while mount knows about PARTUUID=, UUID=, LABEL= and PARTLABEL=  (I believe I'm missing one)
22:03 < rascul> well it doesn't say it's part of the metadata, i guess i just interpreted it that way
22:04 < hexnewbie> rascul: Er, I got that backwards. Mount simply substitutes UUID= with /dev/disk/by-uuid/, userspace udev is the one that creates the symlinks there after calling auxiliary utilities to detect them (blkid I suppose)
22:04 < rascul> hrm
22:08 < rascul> hexnewbie uuid for ext4 at least is stored in the superblock
22:11 < hexnewbie> rascul: Yeah, I suppose that's true for all filesystems. By random place I mean that the byte structure would be different for different filesystems, and the UUID will have different size and offset.
22:12 < rascul> i'm just having trouble understanding why initramfs is needed, seems like the kernel should be able to get that information on its own via the specific filesystem drivers
22:13 < lukey> rascul: root=PARTUUID=... also works without initramfs AFAIK
22:16 < WeirdTolkienishF> how low intelligence is the register?
22:17 < rascul> mount(2) doesn't appear to accept uuid though, so maybe the uuid thing has nothing to do with the kernel at all if mount(8) is just translating to a device name
22:23 < Dagmar> what
22:23 < rascul> Dagmar the claim was made that the kernel relies on initramfs for filesystem uuid and i was trying to understand why
22:23 < Dagmar> Well, it does.
22:23 < rascul> could you explain why?
22:23 < Dagmar> ...but mount definitely accepts both UUID and LABEL params in addition to bare device names
22:24 < Dagmar> rascul: The key is in the name.  initramfs
22:24 < Dagmar> You need *some* form of fs for the kernel to start with
22:24 < rascul> why can't the kernel just read the uuid from the filesystem's metadata itself?
22:24 < Dagmar> This fs will generally need to contain, at minimum, some kind of binary executable, dig?
22:25 < rascul> oh and i was distinguishing earlier between mount the command and mount the system call, i had thought (2) and (8) made that clear
22:25 < Dagmar> rascul: For much the same reason people always want to argue that everyone else should be using btrfs/xfs/zfs.
22:25 < Dagmar> initramfs support is _tiny_ because it's expected to be used in a read-only mode, which skips rather a lot of the hipster bullshit about which one is going to be better for something that will be in use for perhaps 0.182 seconds
22:27 < Dagmar> So the kernel comes up, does it's initialization stuff (which involves putting the rootfs on /) and then goes to run the thing that was fingered to be init (i.e., the init= kernel parameter)
22:27 < Dagmar> Somewhat obviously *no* modules are available at that point
22:27 < Dagmar> Not until a filesystem is around
22:27 < rascul> i understand the use of initramfs
22:27 < Dagmar> Hence, we want something super tiny and so simple it cannot possible fail to get a fs in place then.
22:28 < rascul> i don't understand why the filesystem driver can't read filesystem metadata and make it usable to the rest of the kernel
22:28 < rascul> initramfs being tiny doesn't seem to be an appropriate answer for that
22:28 < Dagmar> Because that's a lot of code compared to what's being invoked
22:28 < cloudbud> I am trying to execute a script  in service file using command exec python app.py  -u devops >> app.log 2>&1 but the script is still starting as root user. can anybody help me
22:29 < Dagmar> It also presumes tehre will be _scanning for devices_ which generally requires buses have already been initialized and their driver modules loaded, hint hint
22:29 < rascul> is the filesystem driver not already reading metadata from the filesystem?
22:29 < Dagmar> You've no need of filesystem drivers at that point, which leaves the kernel very small
22:29 < Dagmar> Keep in mind this is RAM which *won't* be able to be freed up later
22:29 < rascul> so if i can build in the drivers, i don't need initramfs to mount via filesystem uuid?
22:30 < Dagmar> Yeah, you can do that.  I would advise, rather strongly, against trying to do without a tiny initfs
22:30 < rascul> ok, that's contrary to the original claim, which was saying that initramfs was required in order to mount via uuid
22:30 < DLange> https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/init/do_mounts.c#n183
22:30 < Dagmar> No, it's going to basically be required to get to the point where you can even contemplate mounting by uuid
22:30 < DLange> PARTUUID=<UUID> is supported (#199)
22:30 < Dagmar> Like there's no point in trying to mount by uuid if you have no disk controller drivers
22:31 < cloudbud> I am trying to execute a script  in service file using command exec python app.py  -u devops >> app.log 2>&1 but the script is still starting as root user. can anybody help me
22:31 < rascul> DLange that's not filesystem uuid though, and that looks like mounting by filesystem uuid is not supported in the kernel
22:31 < Dagmar> Unless you like _failing_ it's not a good idea to try to flatten this particular part of the boot process
22:32 < koala_man> cloudbud: to run a command as another user, use sudo or su
22:32 < DLange> did I say PARTUUID?!?
22:32 < rascul> you did
22:32 < Dagmar> Yep
22:32 < Dagmar> <DLange> PARTUUID=<UUID> is supported (#199)
22:32 < DLange> cool
22:32 < DLange> so ... ;)
22:32 < Dagmar> S'okay.  This part of the kernel stuff is quite maddening
22:32 < phogg> this part?
22:33 < DLange> look at memory management
22:33 < Dagmar> "what happens when the kernel is finally in memory"
22:33 < rascul> "to select a partition in relation to a partition with a known unique id"
22:33 < cloudbud> koala_man I am using service file
22:33 < Dagmar> DLange: I would but I'm all out of animal tranquilizers
22:33 < koala_man> cloudbud: oh, a systemd unit file? if so there's a User option
22:34 < cloudbud> koala_man : i m keeping file in /etc/init/app.conf
22:35 < kryptynasium> X is a client app I am deploying. Non-system account NS logs in and tries to run X. X needs to write to /var/log/Package_X/*. Should my app write using the "system account"? Or do I allow non-system account CHOWN /var/log/Package_X?
22:35 < cloudbud> but dont know how it should be involved via devops user
22:35 < koala_man> cloudbud: use sudo or su
22:36 < Dagmar> Is there some reason that directory can't be owned by the "non-system account"?
22:36 < rascul> or at least readable
22:36 < Dagmar> It's not like we don't have fs attributes that can mark the file append-only
22:37 < kryptynasium> Dagmar: no there is no such reason. Directory can be owned by non-system account.
22:37 < Dagmar> So you don't actually have a problem then
22:37 < kryptynasium> Dagmar: trying to understand what is Linux standard.
22:37 < Dagmar> kryptynasium: Sure.  Throw out systemd.
22:37 < Dagmar> ...because from where I sit, it's not standard.  It's some NIH cancercode.
22:38 < coreyhuinker> anyone have luck installing ubuntu on a NUC8? I'm getting I/O errors after it picks a partition
22:38 < Dagmar> Having a role account used for both execution and ownership of files for some specific system facility is _entirely normal_
22:39 < rascul> kryptynasium could another directory the user has write access to be used? if multiple users are writing log files there, it can get messy
22:39 < Dagmar> sgid directories
22:39 < Dagmar> Or just put them all in one bloody common group
22:40 < Dagmar> More sanely, multiple _separate_ facilities should generally not be writing to a common directory if they're expected to be able to create their own log files
22:40 < kryptynasium> rascul: Of course I can write to home path! - but I keep hearing FHS dictates writing logs to standard /var/log
22:41 < Dagmar> A solid rule of thumb is if they could write more than two files they should get their own directory even if there *is* a shared group available
22:41 < rascul> ignore FHS it's meaningless and nobody actually adopted it
22:41 < Dagmar> Just to keep things tidy
22:41 < Dagmar> No one needed to "adopt" it.
22:41 < Dagmar> It was pretty much what most of the highly organized people were doing
22:41 < Dagmar> Some people just decided to write it down so they could have some place to direct all the holy wars top
22:42 < Dagmar> s/top/to/
22:42 < rascul> yep, but no distro ever complied fully, and now we seem to have even more directory layouts
22:42 < Dagmar> hence, holy wars
22:42 < kryptynasium> Dagmar: I love your talk
22:42 < rascul> still can't figure out if /bin should be a real thing or not
22:42 < Dagmar> It's a perfectly _reasonable_ thing
22:43 < rascul> depending on who you ask
22:43 < Dagmar> Keep in mind that some of the stranger stuff came about because people were being _incredibly_ formal in their thinking about how data is stored and how rights even exist
22:43 < Happyhobo> Hi
22:43 < Dagmar> ...and they also came over from some rather arcane platforms that were incredibly painful to work with because of how little effort was put into making them human-comprehensible
22:44 < Dagmar> Like _mainframes_
22:44 < kryptynasium> Dagmar: rascul what would you recommend default write location
22:44 < azarus> /bin for statically compiled system binaries, /usr/bin for dynamically compiled ones, /usr/local/bin for binaries from packages. (from OpenBSD, in common Linuxes /usr/bin == /usr/local/bin)
22:44 < Dagmar> kryptynasium: If one file, /var/log.  If many files /var/log/name_of_facility
22:44 < Dagmar> If the thing can't be trusted with privs, then give it it's own directory anyway
22:44 < Penguin> Dagmar: "its"
22:45 < Dagmar> Your MUCH LARGER AND MORE DANGEROUS WORRY is one or more subsystems writing to the filesystem unbound
22:45 < Dagmar> i.e., "without restraint"
22:45 < rascul> kryptynasium if it's something that regular users are meant to run as will, it would never touch my /var/log
22:45 < kryptynasium> So then I would need the root to grant write permission to non-system account at /var/log/name_of_facility in my RPM script?
22:46 < rascul> Xorg is the only exception i make for that
22:46 < Dagmar> If the destination filesystem for the log fills, either through excessive activity, aggressive looping failures, or admin neglect, _your logs have basically failed_ because they will no longer be providing a record of system activity
22:46 < Dagmar> ...and if only one facility can screw up that for _everything else_ you have a somewhat toxic vulnerability
22:47 < Dagmar> kryptynasium: Your question should be self-evident.  If you want logs, it's going to need to be able to write them
22:47 < kryptynasium> Dagmar: the log files are suffixed with time created
22:48 < Dagmar> kryptynasium: Okay, so then you'd be putting redundant information into the filename (since this is already shown via stat() on the file)
22:48 < Dagmar> ...so you'd have two ways to know when your logs became worthless
22:48 < Dagmar> Let me be very clear
22:48 < Dagmar> If this service is something that's going to write _lots_, consider strongly giving it it's own filesystem
22:48 < Penguin> Dagmar: "its"
22:49 < Dagmar> Like on a mail server, it's perfectly reasonable for /var/log/mail to be a filesystem all to itself so the mail server cannot break the system's ability to record who logged in or out in /var/log/wtmp and so oin
22:49 < Dagmar> THe thing might up and write 100Gb of crap in a day before you can catch it
22:49 < kryptynasium> Dagmar: yes lots of logs are expected to be written. Each time client X is launched - a new log file is created - hence need for a new name
22:50 < phogg> avoid using a capital X as a placeholder as there is a program that is literally called X
22:50 < Dagmar> If you scroll up you'll see I mentioned "writing more than two files" as being a criteria for giving a thing it's own subdir some time ago
22:50 < Penguin> Dagmar: "its"
22:50 < phogg> Penguin: is that really necessary?
22:51 < Dagmar> Samba does this, and it makes a freakin' mess of /var/log unless you're telling it to write to /var/log/samba
22:51 < phogg> nothing should write files directly in /var/log except for things which are grandfathered in due to tradition. A directory for everything!
22:52 < Dagmar> That _might_ be a bit overkill, but it doeesn't hurt
22:52 < phogg> Dagmar: I'm better you have Penguin on ignore, don't you.
22:52 < Dagmar> phogg: Your bet would be a winnar
22:52 < rascul> chicken dinner?
22:53 < kryptynasium> phogg: agreed - creating subdirs would be overkill unless it adds organization or some value
22:54 < rascul> kryptynasium what is this program you're having the log issue with?
22:55 < kryptynasium> rascul: well I am creating this program myself - need to package it. Learning how Linux deployment works.
22:56 < kryptynasium> I need to then add in my RPM a way to give appropriate privileges to non-system account in order to write to /var/log/<package_name>
22:57 < kryptynasium> So what is the role of an ad-hoc system account?
22:57 < rascul> what does this program do?
22:57 < kryptynasium> Created for install purposes
22:58 < kryptynasium> rascul: allows connecting to different databases and run queries - think of isql 2.0
22:59 < rascul> this is a tool that users would be running as needed?
22:59 < rascul> i would have it log somewhere in ~ in that case
23:02 < kryptynasium> rascul: correct - yes as needed. Not something running all the time
23:02 < Valeyard> Is there a way to symlink directories? I have a directory X with some files, I wanna symlink this directory with the dir Y, so everytime I create a new file in the directory X, it'll also be created on directory Y
23:03 < kryptynasium> rascul: makes sense to me: ~
23:03 < rascul> kryptynasium as an example, irc servers log to /var/log, irc clients log to ~, it sounds like your program is comparable to the irc client, not the irc server
23:03 < rascul> if you're logging to your home directory you shouldn't have to worry about other groups, users, permissions or anything, at least not for that specific purpose
23:04 < kryptynasium> rascul: I needed a server/client app - best practices logging technique
23:04 < koala_man> Valeyard: you can make Y show the same files as X, but you can't make Y show the files in X plus some other files that were already there
23:05 < kryptynasium> rascul: are IRC client/server apps bundled together or separately?
23:05 < rascul> kryptynasium they are separate
23:05 < kryptynasium> Sure! moving to ~
23:06 < rascul> kryptynasium so your program does both server stuff and client stuff? are those two roles separated?
23:06 < kryptynasium> No no - I have a different program that does server thing - but blame my ignorance I have bundled them together
23:07 < rascul> kryptynasium seems to me like the server part should be logging to /var/log and the client to ~
23:08 < rascul> bundling them together isn't necessarily a bad thing, there are cases where that's done (postgresql, for example)
23:08 < kryptynasium> rascul: Correct - I am going to make those changes.
23:08 < kryptynasium> rascul: Are "groups" really really needed for server apps?
23:08 < rascul> maybe
23:09 < kryptynasium> I see oracle, mysql - create primary and secondary groups with a system account
23:09 < rascul> if the server is to be controlled by others you might want a group for those others and only allow people who can control the server into that group
23:09 < rascul> but if that separation isn't necessary, then perhaps groups aren't necessary
23:10 < OnkelTem> Hi folks. There's probably something wrong with my system - Kubuntu 17.10: it copies file to flash card very slow. I cannot explain this.
23:10 < OnkelTem> Any ideas how to make sure it works correctly at least?
23:10 < koala_man> how slow is it?
23:10 < rascul> kryptynasium wpa_supplicant, for example, can be configured to allow controlling only by users from a specific group
23:10 < nekoseam> So the Linux kernel now supports SPECK
23:10 < kryptynasium> Dagmar: rascul phogg Thanks!!
23:11 < rascul> kryptynasium anytime you want another lengthy and in depth discussion about something trivial, be sure to ask!
23:12 < kryptynasium> Alright - love the razor-sharp clear-cut details
23:13 < za1b1tsu> Hello, someone told me before, but I forgot to write it down. When I boot the ubuntu server usb I can switch virtual consoles, but I don't remember how. I tried ctrl+alt+arrow but does not work. Anybody knows what I am talking about?
23:13 < OnkelTem> koala_man: well, when I test it with dd it results to 14Mb/s. But I feel like it copies files much slower
23:13 < Isky> crtl-alt-f#
23:13 < Isky> like f1, f2
23:14 < Isky> and just alt-f# if in a console, not in a gui
23:14 < OnkelTem> koala_man: I'll tell for sure when cp finishes, it's now copying with `time` prefix
23:14 < za1b1tsu> Isky: tried it does not work, I will reboot and try it again. Thanks.
23:14 < kryptynasium> Not much programming books exist out there that talk about development in Linux - http://www.wrox.com/WileyCDA/WroxTitle/Beginning-Linux-Programming-4th-Edition.productCd-0470147628.html this one looks solid
23:14 < koala_man> OnkelTem: is it mounted in sync mode? if so it may falsely appear to be slower than in async mode
23:16 < rascul> kryptynasium there's a whole bunch, actually, but your selection is limited if you're looking for (legally) free (of cost) books online
23:16 < OnkelTem> koala_man: well, first I tried copying using midnight commander, it first shows like it is copying with 100Mb/s speed, then when the progress bar was filled, I had to wait probably 10 minutes
23:17 < bls> kryptynasium: looked at: https://github.com/EbookFoundation/free-programming-books/blob/master/free-programming-books.md#linux ?
23:17 < kryptynasium> Programming from the Ground Up by Jonathan Bartlett - is also another one that is fantastic
23:17 < koala_man> OnkelTem: that's write caching at work
23:17 < za1b1tsu> Isky: does ot work, Im on a macbook pro if it matters
23:17 < za1b1tsu> *not
23:17 < OnkelTem> Anyways, what do you guys think about speed of 14Mb/s for a flash stick?
23:18 < koala_man> I'm assuming you mean 14 MB/s, which is reasonable
23:18 < OnkelTem> yes, 14MB
23:19 < kryptynasium> rascul: can you elaborate?
23:19 < OnkelTem> hm, I would expect much more than that. But ok. In minutes I'll know the actuall speed of file copy
23:19 < kryptynasium> Thanks bls for sharing that link
23:19 < lnnb> usb2? should that be around a theoretical maximum bandwidth of 60MB/s ?
23:20 < OnkelTem> koala_man: finished. So the speed is 3.45MB/s!
23:20 < kryptynasium> wow bls that was so kind of you!
23:20 < rascul> kryptynasium check oreilly, they have some pretty good ones (but also some bad ones). some of their stuff is even free as in beer, and/or released under a free as in speech license. also bls' link is good.
23:20 < OnkelTem> Wtf, my TP is 3 times faster than this crap
23:21 < bls> kryptynasium: not my page, just a group of people that collect links when someone open sources/creative commons computer books
23:21 < koala_man> OnkelTem: it really depends on the flash drive. The 8GB branded conference loot costs $4 wholesale, and that's about what you can expect
23:21 < OnkelTem> lol
23:22 < OnkelTem> it's really cheap yeah, costed near that
23:22 < koala_man> if you add a zero or two, you'll get dramatically much higher speeds
23:22 < OnkelTem> couldn't even image it will be that slow
23:22 < rascul> kryptynasium if you look somewhere like amazon or barnes & noble they have a vast plethora of linux and programming related books
23:22 < OnkelTem> imagine*
23:22 < koala_man> read speed is faster if it helps
23:23 < OnkelTem> good part :)
23:23 < kryptynasium> That github link seems to have everything you could ever need - bls !
23:24 < Psi-Jack> Bah. Microsoft is aquiring GitHub. Soon it may just be GutHub.
23:24 < tonyt> it is already a done deal
23:24 < lnnb> woah a time traveller?
23:26 < Psi-Jack> It hasn't happened yet.
23:26 < kryptynasium> I bet those early devs would be envious of the OSS documentation available to us
23:27 < kryptynasium> There hasn't been a better time for OSS than now. It is  LR and C
23:27 < lnnb> LR and C?
23:28 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, well, you will never need more than 640kB of memory.
23:28 < kryptynasium> lnnb: left right and center
23:30 < kryptynasium> GAFA standing on OSS
23:30 < lnnb> OSS is colinear?
23:30 < lnnb> 1 dimensional !?
23:30 < simbalion> If I buy an apple keyboard for my PC running Debian, does the option key simply replace the windows key or will I have to re-do my hotkeys?
23:33 < pankaj_> OK. I know what is init. But what about init system. What is it and how systemv and systemd are different?
23:33 < pankaj_> I googled init system but I got what init does.
23:33 < pankaj_> Just some simple explanation required please
23:33 < lnnb> pankaj_: init is the root process
23:34 < lnnb> everything forks from init
23:34 < pankaj_> lnnb: Yes, i know.
23:34 < lnnb> and it also may be assigned orphaned processed that need to be reaped (waitpid call, etc)
23:34 < lnnb> that's pretty much it
23:34 < pankaj_> lnnb: But what is meant by init system. Is it the way process are forked after init?
23:34 < kryptynasium> bls: didn't find a book on RPM - this one looks best - http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download;jsessionid=402B9B4665D907839B4BD9631A8F3F38?doi=10.1.1.730.4169&rep=rep1&type=pdf anything better?
23:35 < lnnb> people probably mean to say service manager
23:35 < lnnb> and just don't know that they are using the wrong words
23:35 < pankaj_> lnnb: Like what is the relation between it and systemv and systemd?
23:35 < lnnb> both are pid 1, both start with the letters s. y. s. t. e. m.
23:36 < kryptynasium> The only complaint about that RPM book is it is too verbose
23:36 < kryptynasium> According to one Amazon review
23:37 < pankaj_> lnnb: Yes, I can see that process having pid 1 is systemd. WHere is init gone now or if the new one is named systemd then what are the changes as per older systemv.
23:37 < lnnb> i never used systemv or systemd
23:37 < lnnb> so who knows
23:37 < lnnb> other than me?
23:37 < lnnb> not me!
23:38 < pankaj_> bls: Hello. Just need some help.
23:38 < pankaj_> lnnb: These things make me frustated.
23:38 < lnnb> whats frustrating about it?
23:39 < rascul> systemd is doing your init
23:39 < lnnb> systemd new, systemv old
23:39 < pankaj_> lnnb: It is so embarrasing when someone asks me in simple words what it is and I do not know it.
23:39 < rascul> well it wasn't really systemv
23:40 < pankaj_> lnnb: On wikipedia it says that it is a suite of software that provides fundamental building blocks for a linux operating system.
23:40 < lnnb> lol
23:40 < pankaj_> rascul: So, What do you mean. Please tell.
23:40 < pankaj_> rascul: Right. It was SystemV?
23:40 < pankaj_> rascul: Joking
23:41 < lnnb> that's not true for either sysv or sysd
23:41 < rascul> it was originally something based on sysv but any modern sysvinit implementation is so much more nowadays
23:41 < lnnb> the fundamental building blocks bit
23:43 < lnnb> i'll step back a little and say it's embellished, not completely false
23:47 < BlueProtoman> I'm trying to use the nvidia drivers version 396 on Ubuntu 18.04, with a nVidia GeForce GTX 860M via Optimus.  Although `prime-select query` outputs `nvidia`, nvidia-smi fails with "NVIDIA-SMI has failed because it couldn't communicate with the NVIDIA driver. Make sure that the latest NVIDIA driver is installed and running."  I can't use CUDA as a result, and my graphics are being drawn with my Intel chip.  How can
23:47 < BlueProtoman> I fix this?
23:47 < lnnb> BlueProtoman: did you try to call nvidia tech support yet?
23:50 < leopard> BlueProtoman: did you go to #ubuntu and ask for help with your bumblebee setup?
23:50 < BlueProtoman> leopard, lnnb: It turns out nvidia has live chat support.  I'm trying that now
23:51 < iflema> heh
23:51 < iflema> everyone
23:51 < iflema> go
23:52 < mawk> I hacked together a gsm modem, is there a linux program to exploit it ? I want to send SMSes easily
23:52 < mawk> it's accessible from /dev/ttyUSB0 using AT commands, like a regular one
23:53 < bls> mawk: not sure it's supported anymore, but people used to use gammu for that
23:53 < iflema> you got that far....
23:54 < mawk> thanks bls
23:55 < bls> hmm, nice, they actually made a real project out of it, broke it out into reusable libraries and smaller apps
--- Log closed Wed Jun 06 00:00:46 2018