--- Log opened Fri Jun 08 00:00:01 2018
--- Day changed Fri Jun 08 2018
00:00 < kazdax> i want to install RHEL 7 on the hardware
00:00 < ayecee> then dd if=file.iso of=/dev/yourusbdevice
00:00 < kazdax> i used all my hardrive for my debian
00:00 < Raed> kazdax: So are you trying to write a disk image to usb or are you trying to format some disks?
00:00 < kazdax> well i wanted to write gparted into usb ..and then create some allocated space so i can install RHEL
00:01 < phinxy> I should rephrase my question:  Is it possible to have all virtual console tty:s agetty run without me manually having to switch to them and login(autologin)?
00:01 < Raed> kazdax:gparted has a live iso, just download that and dd it onto the usb.
00:01 < ayecee> kazdax: it doesn't seem like tuxboot is necessary or desirable for this.
00:01 < kazdax> k
00:01 < kazdax> i will do the dd
00:01 < ayecee> phinxy: probably yes, but would be a weird thing to do
00:02 < ayecee> when you do weird things, fewer people know how to do that.
00:02 < kazdax> hmm should i download the i686 or the amd64 .iso ?
00:02 < kazdax> i have a 64 bit amd card
00:02 < ayecee> kazdax: probably amd64
00:02 < kazdax> k
00:02 < ayecee> unless your computer is older than you
00:02 < kazdax> hahaha
00:03 < kazdax> thank God its not
00:03  * mwd thanks God
00:03 < kazdax> havign a relevently new computer is important
00:03 < kazdax> even for a dragon
00:04 < ayecee> dragons certainly have the gold for it
00:04 < ayecee> though it's hard for a dragon to part with the gold
00:04 < kazdax> yup
00:05 < bls> why are you installing two different distros directly to the disk? is the computer too old to run VMs?
00:06 < boblamont> I realize this is a very subjective question, but does anyone have suggestions of a very lightweight music library manager (it doesn't haveto have a player) that can load/search a very (>500 GB) library and support drag & drop (out to another player)? I'm using Quod Libet, but find it slow.
00:07 < ayecee> nothing comes to mind
00:08 < kazdax> how do i know what my usb drive is called ?
00:08 < Raed> kazdax: lsblk
00:08 < bls> kazdax: ls /dev/disk/by-id/usb*
00:16 < twainwek> i got default kubuntu installed on a vm and it's sluggish and slow, and crashing left and right. anyone have similar experience?
00:18 < Raed> twainwek: Do you have the virtualization extensions turned on in your BIOS?
00:18 < oiaohm> twainwek: kde also like having functional opengl that can be a fairly big problem in virtual machines.
00:18 < twainwek> Raed: yes
00:19 < searedvandal> boblamont, I'm using Quod Libet too and I find it to be just as responsive with my current 300gb collection as it was with just a few albums added.
00:19 < searedvandal> that said, I'm sure there must be some more responsive players/library managers out there
00:19 < twainwek> ok ok just wanted to quickly check if it was due to the vm or it was the default kubuntu experience
00:20 < mawk> of course it's the default kubuntu experience
00:20 < Raed> twainwek: Grab a non-kde version and give it a shot and see how it plays
00:20 < Sitri> boblamont: mpd covers most of that.  There might be a client that handles the last bit.
00:20 < mawk> it's totally normal to ship a distro whose normal behavior is to crash and lag
00:21 < twainwek> Raed: i did couple days ago and i was this close to throwing my computer out the window
00:21 < GunqqerFriithian> yeah only reason I have problems with KDE is because that I installed it on top of ubutnu 16.04, rather than installing kubuntu or it ontop of 18
00:21 < Raed> Well thats vertainly not going to make it any faster..
00:22 < Raed> certainly*
00:22 < twainwek> mawk: like gnome
00:22 < GunqqerFriithian> nah gnome is worse
00:22 < twainwek> ya, it crashes and lags
00:22 < twainwek> (outside vm)
00:23 < GunqqerFriithian> other than a bit of iffy ness with mesa upgrades its worked like a charme
00:23 < twainwek> i have kde on opensuse and its the smoothest experience i've had outside gnome2
00:23 < boblamont> Sitri: yeah, I tried mpd, but had a bit of trouble getting it set up. I'm pretty sure it would be a good choice with a client that does drag and drop.
00:23 < twainwek> since gnome2 rather
00:24 < GunqqerFriithian> but gnome3 amiright
00:24 < boblamont> searedvandal: It does ok except when I search, then it really seems to bog down.
00:27 < boblamont> Would something like recoll or DocFetcher be worth trying?
00:28 < MrGrz> hihi
00:29 < mawk> Xenomai isn't compatible with armv8
00:30 < mawk> :(:(:(
00:30 < kazdax> i created the gaprted usb
00:30 < kazdax> and it shows the usb stick is gparted
00:30 < kazdax> i tried booting from it but that dint work
00:30 < kazdax> maybe i redo the dd command for gparted
00:30 < kazdax> ?
00:31 < Raed> kazdax: Did you change boot order?
00:31 < kazdax> yes i did
00:31 < kazdax> usually this should work
00:31 < kazdax> but the USB says Gpated-live
00:31 < kazdax> so i assuming dd did everything with problems
00:31 < kazdax> it could be my computer for honest
00:31 < kazdax> i havnt nmentioned sometimes it does act werid wtih usb
00:31 < kazdax> ill try doing this on another system
00:32 < Raed> kazdax: Try another usb port then?
00:32 < kazdax> yes
00:32 < kazdax> this is an old computer..
00:32 < Raed> kazdax: Is it actually amd64 architecture?
00:32 < kazdax> yea
00:32 < Raed> kazdax: What processor is in it?
00:32 < kazdax> fx4100
00:32 < Raed> Ok
00:33 < kazdax> my brother bought this computer..if i was to buy one..i would have bough a much better one
00:33 < mawk> actually I opened some header file and added support for armv8l manually, and now it works
00:33 < mawk> lol
00:34 < Raed> kazdax: Well nobody here can do anything for you if you have issues with the hardware.
00:34 < kazdax> right ..i will get a new system
00:34 < kazdax> really need to upgrade
00:34 < kazdax> the wrost part is that the DVD rom dosnt work either
00:35 < kazdax> okay i got another system to test it out on ..let me test it and see
00:35 < kazdax> if it dosnt work ..then maybe the usb is bad ?
00:35 < kazdax> if it dosnt work on the other system ..i have another usb to work with
00:35 < kazdax> and if both usbs dont work on either computer..then my dd command is bad
00:36 < kazdax> i mean the way i used dd
00:40 < aerozoic> wazup peeps!
00:41 < kazdax> ya i tried it on another system
00:41 < aerozoic> $ make -j <what goes here to auto detect cores?>
00:42 < kazdax> my usb disk dosnt have the files properly installed
00:42 < kazdax> could someone tell me what the dd command again is to instal it ?
00:42 < kerframil> aerozoic: $(nproc)
00:42 < Raed> kazdax: So re-image it
00:42 < aerozoic> thanks kerframil! :)
00:42 < Raed> kazdax: 'dd if=/path/to/ios/file.iso of=/dev/usb/dev/id'
00:42 < kazdax> okaythanks
00:43 < Raed> obviosuly replace those with the correct paths.
00:43 < Raed> obviously*
00:46 < kazdax> ya my previously usb creation was very fast
00:46 < kazdax> and now its taking a while
00:47 < kazdax> yeaaa
00:47 < kazdax> okay let me go test it out
00:59 < kazdax> okay it seems my flash drive was faulty
00:59 < kazdax> it dint work on 3 systems
00:59 < GunqqerFriithian> F
00:59 < kazdax> i mean it opened on all systems but did not boot
00:59 < kazdax> that could also mean ..
00:59 < kazdax> either my flash drive is faulty , or that my use of dd is wrong
01:00 < kazdax> or that the original iso file is faulty
01:00 < GunqqerFriithian> id bet on one of the second two
01:03 < kazdax> okay the other new usb dint work also
01:04 < kazdax> on the other system
01:04 < kazdax> so that means ..
01:04 < kazdax> either the dd command is not being done properly or that my initial file is corrupt
01:04 < GunqqerFriithian> the system's fucked time to trash it and rebuy it
01:11 < chris349> Is there some good tool to convert a large PDF file to PNG? Right now I am testing with convert command, but its filling up my memory and disk.
01:11 < chris349> When I did get it to work the image is tiny and unreadable. Right now I am testing with 80 page PDF from a scanner at 300 DPI
01:12 < koala_man> chris349: memory I guess I can see, but disk?
01:13 < chris349> koala_man, Yes. I just saw my /tmp directory full of 80mb tmp files
01:13 < koala_man> chris349: is /tmp on tmpfs?
01:13 < chris349> Its on a disk with 15G free
01:15 < oiaohm> chris349: pdftoppm  I guess you are looking for.
01:15 < uncle_ben> any arch users here who also use tor browser? i realize it's not strictly a "linux" topic, but both tor and arch channels were useless for troubleshooting
01:16 < chris349> oiaohm, I need to output to PNG, not PPM or PGM. I dont even know what that format is
01:16 < chris349> Maybe there is better flags I can use with the convert command?
01:17 < chris349> My source is PDF but really its an image in PDF, its not like a real text/postscript type of PDF that was created from a computer document
01:17 < oiaohm> chris349: it has a flag for png.   Also you can state the dpi wanted.
01:18 < oiaohm> chris349: for image embedded it can be better to do pdftops and get the image out the postscript.
01:18 < koala_man> chris349: NetPBM is a tool suite like 'convert', except instead of one command that does everything it has multiple commands that convert to/from a trivial format called PPM. This makes it more extensible
01:18 < chris349> Do you think any of those will output the image with the same file name like convert command?
01:18 < koala_man> s/convert/ImageMagick/ I guess
01:19 < chris349> I dont need anything fancy/extendable. Just to convert PDF to PNG. In a reasonable amount of time. Without filling my disk or RAM
01:19 < koala_man> chris349: in any case, turns out you can use   convert file.pdf[3] file3.png  to convert a single page, which probably won't use much ram or disk. You can then put that in a loop
01:19 < chris349> I dont think that is too much task
01:20 < chris349> koala_man, Ok but why cant it just do it normally? Why do I need this hack? Why can my Windows PC do it without all these issues?
01:20 < kerframil> chris349: I agree with oiaohm. starting by rasterizing a PDF that only embeds bitmap images may not be wise.
01:20 < oiaohm> chris349: https://ctan.org/pkg/psrip?lang=en  once you have a postscript file you can do a rip to get the image as it was put into the pdf.
01:20 < kerframil> pdfimages from the poppler package can extract the images
01:20 < oiaohm> kerframil: so a nicer way of doing it.
01:20 < koala_man> chris349: it'll fail with ImageMagick on Windows too, I'm sure
01:21 < kerframil> oiaohm: yeah, it's quite easy to use
01:22 < mawk> ask your question uncle_ben
01:22 < oiaohm> chris349: if it is all scanned I would back the method kerframil said of pdfimages to get the images out the file as is.
01:23 < oiaohm> chris349: and then compress them.
01:24 < chris349> koala_man, I open the PDF with adobe acrobat and I save as PNG. It uses about 45% CPU and peak of 128mb of RAM. Then when I open the PNG file with an image viewer its a good quality such that the text is readable and not pixelated.
01:24 < chris349> So really I would like to know how to cofigure the convert command to act similar to that
01:26 < oiaohm> chris349: pdftoppm default dpi is 150 you have to turn that up 300-600 on a lot of documents with the -r 300 or -r 600 flag.     adobe acrobat is fairly smart at choosing the right dpi.
01:26 < chris349> Ok so pdftoppm with PNG flag seems like its a good start, but the quality is not great
01:26 < oiaohm> chris349: did you set -r
01:26 < uncle_ben> mawk, i can't watch videos on https://hooktube.com after doing a system update and upgrading my tor browser to version 7.5.4 (based on Mozilla Firefox 52.8.0); even with javascript enabled it gives the error: "video format or MIME type is not supported"
01:27 < chris349> The quality is not bad either, but when I convert the same PDF with Adobe Acrobat and zoom in 10X the text is very clear. But with PDFTOPPM the text is not as clear
01:27 < mawk> try to search for some clever keywords in about:config uncle_ben
01:27 < mawk> to see if you can re-enable this
01:28 < oiaohm> chris349: note what I said about pdftoppm default dpi is 150.  adobe changes between 300 and 600.  So if you have not set -r quality will be down.
01:28 < oiaohm> chris349: and I have seen adobe one choose 1200 dpi.
01:29 < oiaohm> chris349: adobe export quality changes bases on what it thinks the document needs.
01:29 < chris349> oiaohm, And do you know in pdftoppm if I can tell it to use PNG8 output? Because in convert command sometimes, depending on the source image, the output is not the right PNG format that I need. It can be viewed in some PNG veiwer but if I try to process the image other ways then it fails unless its PNG8 format exactly
01:30 < chris349> so in convert command if you tell it output file name = PNG8:pngfilename.png then it saves it as PNG8
01:30 < uncle_ben> mawk, i've never needed to dig into this menu before to watch the videos, but i have it up now, so what keywords do you suggest searching for?
01:31 < mawk> video, html5, codec
01:31 < uncle_ben> ok
01:31 < mawk> or mime maybe
01:32 < uncle_ben> mawk, are you an arch user?
01:32 < mawk> no uncle_ben
01:32 < mawk> but it doesn't matter
01:32 < mawk> TBB is pretty self-contained
01:33 < oiaohm> chris349:  png8 is not that friendly to make on fly.  Because you have to make a palette map.     So that requires an extra convert step and pdftoppm have not include due to complexity.
01:34 < uncle_ben> well, i was just hoping someone else could recreate the problem since my arch system is totally up-to-date, so any other arch user with an up-to-date system trying to watch of video on that site using the latest tor browser should have the same problem
01:34 < oiaohm> chris349: by the way there is only 20 different methods to attempt to take 24 bit color and covert it to 8 bit color.
01:34 < oiaohm> chris349: for png.
01:34 < uncle_ben> the arch irc channel and forums are somewhat hostile to go for help because tor browser is not officially supported
01:34 < oiaohm> chris349: use the wrong method will ruin readablity as well.
01:37 < oiaohm> chris349: yes the conversion to png8 can also sharpen some items like text documents by reducing the number of shades.(Of course reduce the shades the wrong way will ruin the image).
01:40 < chris349> oiaohm, I am not at the point where I can start to critize the quality. The issue is I further process the images and when they are not PNG8 sometimes that process fails. It only accepts certain PNG formates.
01:42 < oiaohm> chris349: I would normally be using like imagemagick to go from pdftoppm output to any exact format I need.
01:43 < oiaohm> chris349: and that has a stack of controls.
01:45 < oiaohm> chris349:   some formats are harder to make well than others.   PNG8 is one of the hard to get right.   256 colors only limit does bring issues http://glasses.withinmyworld.org/index.php/2013/05/20/png-8-vs-png-24-theres-a-difference/
01:46 < oiaohm> chris349: so you do want to be using a tool like imagemagick so if something is bad you have the controls to attempt to get it right.
01:49 < PlotCitizen> Hey so apparently I messed up my network settings while trying to set up wireguard to connect to my VPN. It works 100% as expected while I'm connected but as soon as I try to disconnect, it will only connect me to the VPN's 'check your connection' website and nothing else. What should I do?
01:50 < eset> just quick question. When installing some package using apt I have Recommend field. And there are single piplines. Is it possible to install recommended app but choose not the default one?
01:55 < Sitri> PlotCitizen: That might be by design, so you don't leak stuff before you connect to the VPN?
01:56 < Sitri> IE: you might not be disconnecting in the way they expect
01:56 < El_Presidente> hi, is there something special needed if you want to add a dns for an info TLD, because my provider does not accept my dns for .info but has no issues for .de TLD
01:57 < PlotCitizen> @Sitri That's probably why it happens. I was just looking up the way it works and apparently it sets up a new network interface and if the packet it's sending doesn't belong anywhere it completely drops it or something. The link is https://www.wireguard.com/#conceptual-overview
01:58 < meyou_> El_Presidente, like your DNS host won't let you add a .info domain?
01:58 < meyou_> sounds like you should switch dns hosts if so
01:59 < PlotCitizen> @Sitri So I follow my VPN's instructions and run "wg-quick down uk1" but instead of disconnecting cleanly like any other VPN it doesn't let me do anything and I can't figure out what to do to get my network interface back to normal
02:00 < El_Presidente> meyou, no I run my own dns server that hosts two .de domains at the moment and i wanted to add another one but with .info
02:01 < Sitri> Ah, not sure.  You might have better luck contacting their support.
02:01 < El_Presidente> and the registrar where I booked the domains does not accept my dns server for the .info domain. it says "unknown dns server" but has no issues with the .de domains
02:05 < mgolisch> anyone using windows containers?
02:05 < ayecee> anyone is not here. please leave a message.
02:06 < kazdax> hey i realised
02:06 < kazdax> i had the unmount to use DD ?
02:06 < kazdax> correctly right ?
02:06 < ayecee> yes
02:06 < kazdax> okay
02:06 < kazdax> thats why i was wondering why even using a different source of ISO a different operating system
02:06 < kazdax> gave errors still
02:06 < kazdax> okay cool
02:07 < Sitri> You can use dd on something that's mounted read-only.
02:08 < mgolisch> ups wrong channel
02:09 < mgolisch> :)
02:29 < boblamont> are there any terminals that, if you right click on a path, can do something like xdg-open on it and show it in the file manager?
02:30 < GunqqerFriithian> I'm not sure that there are, but do you not like cd + ls ? or something like ranger?
02:31 < boblamont> I'm hoping to do something like search for a song in cmus and then show me the file in the file manager
02:31 < GunqqerFriithian> do you not have all your songs in one central place?
02:32 < GunqqerFriithian> wait it looks like konsole can "Open files and links by direct click"
02:32 < GunqqerFriithian> dunno if it will work in CMUS
02:33 < boblamont> well, yeah, I can browse, they're all organized well, but the speed of searching through cmus is still a lot faster than finding the right album
02:33 < GunqqerFriithian> (You can find that setting in the profile settings under mouse)
02:33 < boblamont> I'll try konsole
02:33 < GunqqerFriithian> also, if you know the name, `grep` can help you
02:34 < boblamont> I keep thinking I need to use the tags, but the way everything is named, you're right, I probably can get away with filename searching
02:34 < GunqqerFriithian> I personally don't use tags with cmus
02:35 < GunqqerFriithian> I just have albumbs seperate so they appear nice, and one folder with my main playlist downloaded from youtube
02:36 < masuberu> good morning, I have a very stupid question... I am testing network bandwidth and I ran this command to create a 5GB dummy file dd if=/dev/zero of=testFile bs=5GB count=1 however the final size is 2.6GB? 2.6G -rw-r--r-- 1 mansop g_dsg_clinical_genomics 2.0G Jun  8 10:34 testFile
02:36 < masuberu> why is that?
02:38 < masuberu> I guess it is 2.6GB ~ 2.0Gb but still my command says 5GB?
02:40 < Sitri> boblamont: urxvt with a perl-extension?  (You'd have to write it yourself)
02:42 < liveuser1> how finding bison package for build mainline
02:42 < liveuser1> or xmlto for mandocs
02:43 < liveuser1> What do you want to do?
02:43 < mgolisch> masuberu: probably some sort of limitation in some bufffer dd creates
02:44 < liveuser1> intel power clamp down?
02:44 < liveuser1> dax doesn't converse
02:44 < liveuser1> they make most likely fake 'confused faces'
02:44 < liveuser1> nothing left but dopefiends and emoticons
02:44 < liveuser1> What do you want to do?
02:45 < liveuser1> What does the pantherlord want for an exodus ticket?
02:45 < Mibix> man im thinking about doing this update from 17.10 to 18.04
02:45 < Mibix> wondering how epically its going to mess with my shit
02:45 < flipper887>  a whole but just like you can't separate a gardener from  his or her garden you can't keep the technically savvy computer user (arm chair Historian) away from his or her favorite BSD/Unix or Linux Distribution(S).
02:48 < boblamont> Sitri: urxvt is the terminal I use for cmus, is there a reference somewhere tSitri: that looks interesting, urxvt is what I ususually use for cmus, so it might be worth playing with that
02:48 < boblamont> sorry, I didn't get it all deleted, I found a reference (well, 2 so far)
02:49 < qeos> hi. what with I can do NAT to another IP, if my iptables compiled without 'nat' table?
02:49 < kazdax> okay dd dint work for me
02:49 < kazdax> i used tuxboot in windows
02:50 < kazdax> and that wroked the first time
02:50 < kazdax> i was able to partition my drive and create free space
02:50 < kazdax> now i am going to install rhel 7
02:50 < kazdax> does anyone know why DD dint work ?
02:50 < kazdax> dd
02:50 < kazdax> i mean
02:50 < mgolisch> what did you do?
02:50 < djph> you used the command wrong?
02:51 < kazdax> no i used dd
02:51 < cmj> cmus is like ncmpcpp?
02:51 < kazdax> and it said it wrote the amoutnof mb that was the iso alittle more maybe
02:51 < Pentode> mgolisch, thats a mighty huge block size, lol. reduce the block size and increase the count instead.
02:52 < liveuser1> the police put me sub mentally defunct drone
02:52 < mgolisch> kazdax: you probably did it wrong or its not a hybrid iso
02:52 < liveuser1> about a lockin per month
02:52 < boblamont> cmj: somewhat, doesn't use mpd though
02:52 < cmj> yeah just noticing that
02:53 < liveuser1> apparently they think I am the child of a drone with a gone mental capacity
02:53 < boblamont> it's very fast
02:53 < liveuser1> completely defunct and then spurts of bizzar capability to reset padlock codes
02:53 < cmj> i can't be shaken from mpd+ncmpcpp, will check it out though
02:53 < kazdax> dd if = myiso.iso of=/dev/sdb1
02:53 < kazdax> thats what i did
02:53 < liveuser1> otherwise complete defunct
02:54 < mgolisch> yeah thats wrong
02:54 < mgolisch> and it will only work if its an actualy hybrid iso that can be used in this fashion
02:54 < liveuser1> kazdax: is there any sign of intelligence out there?
02:54 < mgolisch> -y
02:54 < liveuser1> or pretty piney 0's walking the streets thinking "call the police"
02:54 < mgolisch> but most distributors install isos are
02:55 < liveuser1> kazdax find any signs of intelligent life?
02:55 < GunqqerFriithian> not in this chat
02:55 < kazdax> i can find sign of tortured souls
02:55 < liveuser1> or is the nation doomed to being sub headless chickens with 911 dialers
02:55 < swift110> lol
02:55 < mgolisch> of=/dev/sdb is what you should have done
02:55 < djph> kazdax: you're on a college campus?
02:56 < swift110> so what distros do you guys use?
02:56 < mgolisch> arch/ubuntu
02:56 < liveuser1> mgolisch: somebody has an ide bus?
02:56 < kazdax> no i used the right name
02:56 < kazdax> i am preety sure of that
02:57 < liveuser1> kazdax: college what is that all about drugging females subconscious and hypnotizing them for sex with strangers
02:57 < kazdax> i might have told you the wrong one
02:57 < kazdax> it was sdb1
02:57 < liveuser1> any signs of intelligent life
02:58 < kazdax> so sdb was the upper root ..i see
02:58 < liveuser1> tortured souls many I'd guess if they were intelligent
02:58 < liveuser1> tell me about the tortured souls or are you talking about dope addicts
03:07 < swift110> sup folks
03:15 < baconicsynergy> swift110, suppy
03:16 < baconicsynergy> does anyone know if /etc/protocols and /etc/services are identical across distros, or could they perhaps differ?
03:18 < baconicsynergy> the fate of the known universe is at stake
03:18 < Psi-Jack> Oh no! Must stop the cataclysmic cryptoid!
03:19 < baconicsynergy> the cryptoid? sounds nefarious
03:20  * baconicsynergy slays the cryptoid with a silicon sword
03:20 < baconicsynergy> ok next challenge plz
03:23 < hehehe> who here used truecrypt?
03:23 < hehehe> :D
03:23 < hehehe> *have used
03:23 < hehehe> or veracrypt
03:24 < ayecee> you are the first
03:24 < Happyhobo> Hi folks
03:25 < hehehe> as if @ ayecee
03:25 < hehehe> :D
03:25 < hehehe> thing is if I will encrypt hd
03:25 < hehehe> and then backup
03:26 < hehehe> I wont need an encrypted backup service
03:27 < hehehe> ayecee: what do u use?
03:28 < pqatsi> There is someplace at irc I can ask specifically about nscd daemon?
03:30 < oiaohm> baconicsynergy:  /etc/protocols and /etc/services are identical across distros, or could they perhaps differ? << most distributions they are the same from the same source.  When there is insanely rare update the update can come to distributions at different times.   THere are a few very old init systems that used /etc/services for what services to run but you would be talking rare embedded to find this.
03:31 < Psi-Jack> pqatsi: On Linux?
03:31 < Psi-Jack> hehehe: "you", and you already know better.
03:33 < baconicsynergy> oiaohm, tyvm for the response!
03:35 < Psi-Jack> Now... To figure out how to make a .deb package from scratch. And from cvs source. LOL
03:35 < baconicsynergy> sounds fun!
03:36 < Psi-Jack> Does it really?
03:36 < baconicsynergy> was totally being sarcastic
03:36 < baconicsynergy> but it could be a great learning experience for real
03:37 < jim> a .deb is a .ar containing two .tar.gzs and a text file
03:38 < ayecee> and inside that is a turtle
03:38 < ayecee> and inside the turtle is.. another turtle
03:38 < Psi-Jack> And inside that is a soft mushy core.
03:41 < dogbert_2> looks like the Vegas Golden Knights are going down to defeat
03:41 < jim> the two tarballs are control.tar.gz which contains metadata, and data.tar.gz which is the content of the package, meant to be untarred at /
03:41 < Psi-Jack> Yep. I know all this, heh
03:42 < jim> for a hell of a lot more detail, there;s the debian packaging manual, more than you ever wanted to know
03:49 < Psi-Jack> Well, I get to try to use cvs-buildpackage
03:54 < cmj> i'm still unfamiliar with debuild, only use a couple commands because i'm told to
03:55 < cmj> bindeb-pkg for kernels, other then that, it's a mystery
03:57 < cmj> life: a series of scripts
04:09 < boblamont> so I installed Konsole to try out. It has an open in file manager option, but when I use it, it launches the program "SoundConverter" but doing xdg-open .  opens my file manager. I'm using lubuntu, so I'm using lxde, not kde
04:13 < garylabronz> hello all, i have ~5 personal servers I manage.  Now for professional work I've use chef/ansible/salt.  while they are great, my personal servers dont have 40hours a week spent on them, maybe i look at them once a month.. maybe i dont touch one for a year.  they run personal services and websites for me, now my question is, what is more lightweight as a configuration management than those tools? bash is ok,
04:13 < garylabronz> but i always get mad drift, ansible is probably the most "lightweight" but i kinda hate all the bs yaml i need to write just get something installed and tested
04:14 < garylabronz> does anyone have opinions? I want a super baby configuration management system that will keep my shit in date and be idempotent without having to write some mad bash
04:16 < garylabronz> i was dumping a bunch of things into docker, but then i started raging at how annoying networking can be - it basically became a glorified process manager.  so now im thinking step back and just use unit-files for everything and track all those
04:18 < RustyJ> if i set my public_html 777 can you write an index.html file?
04:18 < RustyJ> it seems you should be able.....
04:19 < garylabronz> RustyJ: yes
04:20 < Nirvash> Any thoughts on why "node script.js" is just returning a newline and not executing node?
04:20 < garylabronz> owner, group, other all have read/write/execute with 777
04:20 < garylabronz> Nirvash: what does `echo $?` return after you run that command (its the exit code)
04:21 < Nirvash> garylabronz -- 1
04:23 < Nirvash> That's what's returned
04:31 < garylabronz> Nirvash: add some console.log() statments and figure out why its crashing, and probably ask in #node or #javascript
04:33 < Nirvash> It's Linux related on this one — typing "node" does nothing either
04:33 < Nirvash> It should enter a shell
04:33 < qoxncyha> `which node`
04:34 < Nirvash> It's /usr/sbin/node
04:35 < qoxncyha> Nirvash: your node is installed wrong
04:35 < garylabronz> you said you are running `node <file>` so its executing a file..
04:35 < Nirvash> I'm saying all node commands are not working
04:35 < garylabronz> can you do like `node --version` or `node -v`  and does it enter a shell if you dont pass it your random script.js
04:35 < garylabronz> you provided a single command.
04:36 < Nirvash> node, node -v, node —version, node script.js all go to a newline.
04:36 < Nirvash> No execution, no error, no output.
04:36 < garylabronz> `man node` etc 100% this is not #linux
04:36 < qoxncyha> how did you install node?
04:36 < Nirvash> apt install node
04:36 < qoxncyha> Nirvash: dpkg -S /usr/sbin/node
04:37 < qoxncyha> iirc the nodejs package on debian-like systems is nodejs, not node
04:37 < Nirvash> Ah, interesting. Let me check
04:38 < qoxncyha> Nirvash: that being said, it's not advised to use apt's version of node. you should use a nvm (or another version manager)
04:41 < qoxncyha> of course using your package manager for everything is nice so you might decide against nvm
04:47 < pepee> so, I want to use two intel NUCs for distributed redundant network backups... any suggestions of easy-to-use linux programs/distros that will manage all of this for me?
04:48 < Nirvash> Got it fixed — thanks for the insight everybody!
04:48 < qoxncyha> pepee: syncthing
04:49 < pepee> qoxncyha, nice, I had forgotten about it
04:49 < pepee> why is google so terrible these days...
04:51 < Aph3x-WL> these days? it's always been terrible :/
04:53 < garylabronz> whats the most simple/basic configuration management solution ?
04:53 < pepee> Aph3x-WL, nah, at least some keywords and operators used to work well... but not anymore
05:05 < swift110> sup pepee
05:07 < femboyfoxthighhi> shoot
05:11 < pepee> hi swift110
05:11 < pepee> now that I think, they used to use bareos at my workplace
05:13 < wadadli> can't help but think that this would be correct way to pass a string from a file to a param of an option
05:13 < wadadli> i.e - cat foo.txt | aws iam upload-ssh-public-key --username foo --ssh-public-key-body -
05:15 < garylabronz> aws iam upload-ssh-public-key --username foo --ssh-public-key-body $(cat foo.txt)
05:17 < wadadli> oh, but doesn't work. complains about unknown option
05:18 < kerframil> that's because the expansion should have been double quoted
05:19 < garylabronz> ^^
05:19 < wadadli> oh!
05:21 < Aph3x-WL> pepee: oh, you meant the search engine. i meant the company in general
05:27 < pepee> what software/distros do you people use for your backups?
05:29 < Bashing-om> pepee: Depends on your needs, '
05:29 < Elladan> pepee, I like borg backup, but like Bashing-om said it depends heavily on your needs.
05:29 < RustyJ> bash-cron
05:30 < Bashing-om> pepee: 'rsync' meets all me needs .
05:30 < garylabronz> dd
05:31 < Elladan> ddrescue, I always wait until my disk is failing to make a backup ;-D
05:31 < pepee> I want to do one of these things: either have a RAID 1 setup in my desktop PC and throw all data to it, OR have two small SBCs in the network, each one with a small HDD, and use that as distributed storage/backup systems
05:32 < pepee> currently I simply copy files to an internal HDD, but it's not really for backups, and the storage is not networked
05:32 < epicmetal> pepee: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Synchronization_and_backup_programs
05:33 < pepee> using the desktop PC would mean wasting electricity, though, since I'd have to keep it on all the time, and I currently don't do that
05:33 < Elladan> pepee, in general, RAID isn't a substitute for backups. They ideally protect you against different sorts of failures.
05:34 < pepee> I thought it was? good to know
05:34 < Elladan> pepee, you should make this decision by running through the different scenarios you're worried about in your head and seeing how a proposed backup solution will deal with them.
05:34 < pepee> so I guess the 2 network devices would be a better option
05:35 < Elladan> Well as a simple example here, if your power supply explodes in flames and you heroically put it out with a fire extinguisher... well, RAID sure didn't help, right?
05:35 < Elladan> As a second scenario, what if your house burns down?
05:36 < Elladan> On the other hand, if a disk suddenly dies, RAID will let you keep working on an important project without any downtime. Just swap the disk when you receive the replacement in the mail.
05:36 < garylabronz> backblaze, just run a windows box and mount yo data
05:37 < garylabronz> offsite backup, cheap etc
05:37 < pepee> I'm thinking, the network setup could be either: a) automatically mirror the data when copying to the network storage, or b) have one disk to use constantly, then use the second one to keep daily copies of the 1st disk
05:38 < pepee> guess b would be the best way to do it... though I'd have to be really careful in the case something fails
05:39 < Elladan> pepee, a common solution is to make backups to a USB disk, and rotate between 2 USB disks every so often (one stored at a friend's house or a safe deposit box, say).
05:40 < Elladan> Another common solution is to use various online storage e.g. rsync.net, backblaze, a VPS like backupsy or whatever, etc.
05:40 < pepee> btw, I'm talking about backups of lots of stuff, even disk images
05:40 < Happyhobo> Those are router antennas
05:41 < Happyhobo> Can I use them for my laptop jim?
05:41 < pepee> (I usually copy the whole disk, since it's simpler and faster than selecting specific files/directories/partitions...)
05:41 < Happyhobo> I may not get any signal at all?
05:41 < pepee> I use SSDs, so it's not a lot of data, but still
05:42 < Elladan> pepee, a good backup tool will be much faster than mirroring the disk.
05:42 < Happyhobo> They're made for transmission not reception right?
05:42 < jim> Happyhobo, they're made for both
05:43 < pepee> Elladan, in the case of delta diffs, yeah
05:44 < pepee> otoh, copying the whole disk means the state of the whole system is kept intact
05:44 < pepee> actually, I could use both approaches...
05:44 < jim> Happyhobo, can you plug em in?
05:44 < Elladan> pepee, not if you copy the disk live.
05:44 < Elladan> pepee, the typical "fancy" way people solve that problem with backups is to use snapshots, and back up the snapshot.
05:45 < pepee> <Elladan> pepee, not if you copy the disk live.   <- why not? what's the difference?
05:46 < pepee> wait, what do you mean by copying the disk live? while the system is running?
05:46 < Elladan> Yes.
05:47 < pepee> ah, ok. yeah, I fail to see the difference between that and using, say, a livecd to copy it
05:47 < Elladan> If you use snapshots, you can make a coherent snapshot of an instant in time of the whole filesystem, while the system is actively being written to.
05:47 < pepee> of course I'd stop/kill most processes
05:47 < pepee> ... before doing a live copy
05:47 < Elladan> But you don't have to.
05:48 < Elladan> Anyway, if you want to do things that way you can. I'm just giving you some suggestions.
05:48 < pepee> something could be writing data while copying the disk, I suppose that that could corrupt the FS
05:49 < pepee> I understand your points, and thanks for helping me
05:49 < Elladan> Yes, if you make a block device level copy while the filesystem is mounted, it will be corrupt.
05:50 < Elladan> The good solution is to use LVM + snapshots (or btrfs/ZFS which have snapshots built in).
05:50 < pepee> ahh, you mean FS snapshots, I don't know much about that stuff
05:51 < Elladan> They're fun.
05:55 < wadadli> does anyone know where gnome-session saves a custom session?
05:58 < cmj> wadadli: try ~/.config/gnome-session/
05:59 < cmj> doesn't look right on my end, but i haven't used gnome
06:04 < qoxncyha> pepee: what's wrong with syncthing, just curious
06:04 < qoxncyha> really quite curious
06:05 < pepee> qoxncyha, I haven't even used it
06:06 < wadadli> cmj ⟿   i guess gnomes auto save session is broken
06:07 < cmj> have you tried #gnome?
06:08 < wadadli> nope, prolly would be better to ask on gimp net
06:08 < swift110> hmm
06:08 < cmj> ok, fair 'nuff
06:08 < swift110> nothing is on gimp net
06:08 < wadadli> yer gnome stuff is on there
06:12 < Elladan> qoxncyha, syncthing is really more for file sharing between machines than for backups.
06:14 < za1b1tsu> Hello, anyone using lxqt with a diff window manager?
06:14 < qoxncyha> Elladan: that's true
06:16 < cmj> lxqt is a config frontend for qt things, iirc
06:17 < cmj> i use a mix of qt, gtk, etc
06:18 < cmj> qt is a beast of its own
06:19 < brutser> hi, how can i change the isolinux menu from an existing iso?
06:58 < Happyhobo> jim sorry for disappearing, they're still in China and I have no choice because the internals are destroyed.
06:59 < Happyhobo> I need to use two aluminum cigarette packs to mount them.  One on each side.
07:00 < Happyhobo> Can they overheat or overload the card?
07:13 < TaZeR> i encrypted my disk with dm-crypt plain mode and on creation i put in a very long password but now when i unlock the disk it doesnt accept it, it only accepts my user password, is this normal?
07:28 < CrazyTux> triceratux, what's your opinion on Mint 19?
07:29 < ftwhtw> i want to write custom linux any guide?
07:30 < epicmetal> ftwhtw: what does that even mean
07:30 < ftwhtw> epicmetal: create own linux os
07:33 < sauvin> ftwhtw, yes: Linux From Scratch.
07:35 < ftwhtw> sauvin: Linux from scratch ..sounds interesting
07:37 < _stuart> yeah...
07:47 < Happyhobo> night dudes and dudettes
07:54 < Triffid_Hunter> ftwhtw: 'interesting' definitely.. until you try to maintain it ;)
08:03 < jozefk> o/
08:03 < jozefk> is it OK to ask here if anyone is using linux for mining?
08:06 < hexnewbie> jozefk: It's OK to ask, but asking a rhetorical question with an obvious ‘yes’ for an answer is probably not your real question. So you're like asking to ask to ask? ;p
08:06 < jozefk> I don't know what is allowed what is not and what is off topic here
08:07 < hexnewbie> Not familiar with cryptocurrencies, but people mine on something other than Linux?
08:07 < jozefk> :))
08:08 < jozefk> thinking about mining with AMD cards and linux
08:16 < sauvin> jozefk, if you'll /msg alis help, you'll see how to use alis to find cryptocurrency-related channels.
08:27 < jozefk> sauvin, thanks. that's useful
08:28 < pingfloyd> jozefk: https://www.recode.net/2018/4/24/17275202/bitcoin-scam-cryptocurrency-mining-pump-dump-fraud-ico-value
08:28 < Dagmar> Thanks to taxes, if they're mining on Linux, they're probably not doing it in the US
08:29 < pingfloyd> and electric bill
08:29 < bookmark> hi
08:29 < pingfloyd> such a waste
08:29 < Dagmar> Nah, electricity is cheap enough here in middle TN
08:29 < Dagmar> We mainly do hydroelectric and nuclear
08:29 < pingfloyd> yeah, can just build another dam, coal plant, or nuclear power plant
08:30 < Dagmar> We actually do build a new lake about every decade or so
08:30 < jozefk> it's not in US
08:30 < bookmark> anyone know how to replace zero value characters (like ascii zero) in a file to have a value?
08:30 < Dagmar> It's a little weird to be driving past a glade one day and the next day... WATER
08:30 < bookmark> there are a lot of nulls in bitmaps
08:30 < Dagmar> bookmark: You mean replacing NUL?
08:31 < bookmark> yes
08:31 < Dagmar> This is *such* an X-Y problem
08:31 < bookmark> and i'm trying to make one into a c++ literal
08:31 < Dagmar> What is it that you're actually trying to do
08:31 < Dagmar> Oh!
08:31 < Dagmar> xwd?
08:31 < bookmark> i'm almost there on my android
08:31 < Dagmar> There's actually a couple of binaries for this
08:31 < bookmark> i have like a garbled texture
08:31 < bookmark> but i know why
08:31 < bookmark> its the NULs
08:32 < bookmark> i tried using xvi32 to fix the literal
08:32 < bookmark> but that changed the file size
08:32 < bookmark> dunno why
08:32 < Dagmar> bin2c
08:32 < Dagmar> ...but I strongly suspect you're doing something else terribly wrong
08:33 < bookmark> its just not a power of 2 texture any longer
08:33 < lilltiger> ÄI have output from two different straces attached to processes that eats up all my CPU on my webserver, but how do I enterpitate the strace output?
08:33 < bookmark> and the pixel arrangement is of course off
08:33 < pingfloyd> bookmark: so you're trying to derive a literal value from a bitmap image?
08:33 < bookmark> because of that
08:33 < bookmark> yes
08:33 < bookmark> i'm almost done
08:33 < bookmark> 256x256xrgb
08:34 < Dagmar> You're probably not storing it as a const char array like you _should_ be
08:34 < bookmark> yeah i am
08:34 < bookmark> :)
08:34 < pingfloyd> the bitmap is essentially a big binary value
08:34 < bookmark> static char *
08:34 < pingfloyd> right?
08:34 < bookmark> er.. actually
08:34 < Dagmar> I can assure you that I've done this (bin2h.cpp found my notes) and I don't even technically know C
08:34 < pingfloyd> the bitmap itself as a file
08:35 < bookmark> yeah i just delete the first 54 characters
08:35 < Dagmar> There's no reason it should corrupt the bitmap
08:35 < bookmark> thats the header
08:35 < pingfloyd> so don't you essentially just need to convert binary to dec or whatever output value you want?
08:35 < bookmark> what shouldn't? what is it in your sentence
08:35 < bookmark> the opengl or xvi32?
08:35 < bookmark> xvi32 did it
08:35 < bookmark> i just have to redo my work
08:36 < bookmark> remove " and \
08:36 < bookmark> gonna just replace with 1
08:36 < pingfloyd> couldn't you just take an existing function or program that converts that?
08:36 < bookmark> and see what i get
08:36 < pingfloyd> or even create that func yourself
08:36 < Dagmar> He should be but they always want to fail the hard way first
08:37 < pingfloyd> that doesn't seem like it should be to hard if I'm understanding right (just have the computer do some math for you--what they're great at)>
08:37 < Dagmar> It's easy
08:38 < bookmark> is there a way to search NUL in notepad++?
08:38 < Dagmar> The uPNP daemon I uses keeps the icon it shows to clients in the code itself
08:38 < Dagmar> TOok about ten minutes to find the appropriate tool, and then replace it with my own bitmaps
08:39 < Dagmar> This talk of looking for NUL is just madness
08:39 < Dagmar> Bitmaps are going to have NUL in them and practically every other value from 1-255
08:40 < Dagmar> See also https://code.google.com/archive/p/bin2h/
08:46 < syborg> hey does this channel have a log somewhere?
08:47 < nchambers> syborg: was there something something you were lookng for?
08:48 < nchambers> afaik there are no public logs
08:48 < syborg> a convo from forever ago where a dude gave me a really handy bash one-liner I use all the time, I got disconnected after he gave it to me, if I knew he's nick I'd thank him
08:48 < syborg> *his
08:49 < nchambers> were you using the same nick?
08:49 < syborg> yeah I think so
08:49 < syborg> it is relating to virtualbox snapshots
08:49 < syborg> oh sorry nchambers, let me change to my proper nick
08:49 < syb0rg> there, this nick
08:51 < Dr_Coke> Hi people
08:51 < Dr_Coke> Hi Sveta
08:52 < RayTracer> syb0rg: VBoxManage snapshot $VM list | grep -Eo 'UUID: [0-9a-f]{8}-([0-9a-f]{4}-){3}[0-9a-f]{12}' | cut -f2 -d' ' | xargs -L 1 VBoxManage snapshot $VM delete
08:52 < syb0rg> yeah I still have the oneliner RayTracer, I wanted to thank the guy if you have the nick
08:52 < syb0rg> thanks for looking
08:52 < nchambers> syb0rg: sorry, i don't have the nick
08:52 < syb0rg> it's all good
08:53 < RayTracer> syb0rg: that was 2017-12-21 from mihaele
08:53 < syb0rg> nice, appreciated :)
09:23 < moniker-> so i have firmware update for ssd that was downloaded as .iso and using unetbootin copied on usb, problem i have is when i boot it it goes to command line when it should start firmware update program, it seems to be based on tinycore, it seems to be set for uefi computers. Is there a problem booting it on old bios computer?
09:24 < moniker-> i mean generally speaking
09:24 < handly> howdy
09:25 < moniker-> or should it work just fine on bios as well
09:56 < _0x40_> Is there a way to extract an image from an .xlsx file that is anchored to a specific cell?
09:57 < notmike> Setting up wifi is such a pita
10:06 < lopid> an xlsx file that is anchored to a cell?
10:08 < sauvin> I think he meant the image is anchored to a particular cell in an xlsx file.
10:12 < lopid> well they're just zips, so it  might be obvious by looking inside it
10:14 < TetsuEn> Hey, my upgrade from Ubuntu 17.1 to 18.04 is hanging with a locale error. Does anyone have a sec to work through it with me?
10:16 < notmike> Is this a test?
10:16 < well_laid_lawn> TetsuEn:  someone in #ubuntu should hae a fix for that if no one here does
10:16 < lopid> we call it voight-kampf
10:17 < notmike> Oh I'd definitely fail that
10:17 < TetsuEn> Ok, I'll go check
10:17 < TetsuEn> Thanks
10:17 < lopid> then you must be… retired
10:18 < notmike> I'm not sure I've ever felt real empathy. Maybe when I was very young and not hurting animals and such
10:19 < notmike> Setting fires, excessive masterbation, the usual kid stuff
10:20 < notmike> That was when I first encountered Linux.
10:20 < lopid> not related to each other, i hope
10:21 < shrdlu68> ...we empathize.
10:29 < lilltiger> notmike: mastrubation can not be excessive, esp. not when doing it in combination with linux, just a sign of being healthy! ;)
10:30 < sauvin> Except that it messes up your spelling. :D
10:31 < notmike> Choking the dog out at the same time is probably what made it kinda weird
10:31 < lilltiger> sauvin: but what is most important, enjoyment in life, or spelling?
10:31 < notmike> Neither
10:31 < lilltiger> notmike: Choking the dog is never a good thing to do :'(
10:32 < sauvin> You're not supposed to choke dogs... just chickens.
10:32 < shrdlu68> Stand back, I am a moral philosopher!
10:32 < notmike> Better to crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women
10:32 < lilltiger> But dog are our best friends, they are the best a human can be!
10:33 < lilltiger> dogs
10:33 < lilltiger> shrdlu68: moral is overrated
10:33 < notmike> Some chick tried to tell me animals are people the other day. Like wtf
10:34 < lilltiger> notmike: so? what makes some animal people and others not?
10:34 < notmike> On some "we are all Earthlings" buuuullshit
10:35 < sauvin> shrdlu68, stand back, I've read WAY too many books about evolutionary psychology!
10:35 < notmike> Honestly I try to source all my meat and eggs from humane sources but it ain't enough for these people
10:35 < lilltiger> notmike: but we are all eartlings, most likly, panspermia does not have any evidence going for it
10:35 < Armand> notmike: I don't care where any of it comes from.
10:36 < shrdlu68> sauvin: Do your worst! It's a causally deterministuic universe.
10:36 < sauvin> I should care, but can't afford to.
10:36 < lilltiger> notmike: haha i read that as "human sources" first ;D
10:36 < Armand> Ohh my
10:36 < sauvin> shrdlu68, I think the mechanics boys would have something to say about that.
10:36 < notmike> Armand: if an animal dies in a horrible way that shit goes into the meat
10:36 < Armand> Depends on where you are.
10:37 < Armand> Also, standard methods should be relatively humane... Example: NOT bleeding to death.
10:37 < lilltiger> notmike: you mean like glass from a windshild, then yes it does.
10:37 < notmike> I mean on some metaphysical type shit
10:38 < lilltiger> Armand: what is wrong with bleeding animals to death if they are not able to feel it?
10:38 < Armand> Try it.
10:38 < Armand> They feel it.
10:38 < Armand> You'll feel it too.
10:38 < notmike> Some chick tried to tell me today that a chicken could survive up to 13 minutes submerged in boiling water
10:38 < Armand> Dafuq ?
10:38 < notmike> That doesn't make any fucking sense at all
10:38 < Armand> Is she demented ?
10:39 < Armand> Like, a congenital defect ?
10:39 < notmike> That's what I said! Like the nerves are definitely toast within seconds
10:39 < lilltiger> Armand: no, just like you do not feel it  either when you are unconsious. All anaimals are bleed out pretty much, itäs not an arabic/muslim thing.
10:39 < Armand> BS
10:39 < shrdlu68> Nope, not at all demented, just the usual human cognitive biases and fallacies.
10:40 < truthr> Free Software will save the world
10:40 < notmike> I'm not trying to justify factory farming, but ffs there is egregious bias in everything surrounding the topic
10:40 < Armand> truthr: Your thinking of the complete destruction of the human race.... but, pretty close. ;)
10:40 < Armand> *you're
10:41 < lilltiger> notmike: well that might be somewhat true, like a human can survive for about 12-15min submerged in water without any permanent damages, as long as we can expel the CO2 and conserve the oxygen. And if the water is boiling at the surface it could be as cold as 60C undernith the surface and that one could endure for quite a while.
10:42 < notmike> Like they always make huge assumptions about what I will and won't do. "You wouldn't do it to a dog!" You wouldn't do it to a cat!" "... A human"
10:42 < notmike> No offense, but if it's you or me, I will fucking eat you.
10:42 < lilltiger> Armand: In sweden all farm-anaimals are bleed out while the heart is pumping.
10:42 < truthr> 12 to 15 min? you are dead in 4
10:42 < truthr> maybe 5
10:42 < Armand> That is disgusting and inhumane, lilltiger
10:43 < lilltiger> notmike: you make sure you prepare the meat well thought
10:43 < notmike> Easily dead and/or unconscious within minutes
10:43 < lilltiger> Armand: why would it be, they are probly doing it the same in your country
10:43 < truthr> yeah farm animals are slaughter such that they are kosher or meet other religious beliefs. it increases the suffering of the animal greatly.
10:43 < Armand> Nope
10:43 < Armand> Dead.
10:43 < truthr> thank you religion
10:44 < Armand> truthr: Indeed
10:44 < Armand> Savage
10:44 < psyk3d> One of the reasons I'm a vegetarian now!
10:44 < lilltiger> truthr: no, you are dead in 4mins if you cant expell the CO2, but if you can get rid of it you survive alot longer
10:45 < notmike> lilltiger: I'll eat your liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti
10:45 < lilltiger> Armand: are you sure, what country do you live in?
10:45 < Armand> I'm very sure.. I know my sources.
10:45 < lilltiger> notmike: the liver, the most contaminated thing on a body.. better to eat the heart as it's pure muscles that are very clean
10:46 < lilltiger> Armand: so what country?
10:46 < truthr> we should just be vegan. the total suffering would decrease by orders of magnitude and the world would be a happier healthier place
10:46 < shrdlu68> Ideas of ethics and morality hinge upon empathy, and we don't all empathize in the same way. Some people empathize with animals, some don't empathize with foreighners, hence the mess we see everyday.
10:46 < notmike> "suffering"
10:46 < lilltiger> Armand: and your sorces are just personal anecdotes and not worth anything.
10:46 < FMan> wjat was the rationale why running programs from current dir is disabled unless explicit?
10:46 < Armand> truthr: I would not be happy without eating meat. :P
10:46 < psyk3d> truthr: I dont know if that was sarcastic, but I believe in that :P
10:46 < notmike> My cat kills shit for the lulz, but apparently this is unnatural and wrong
10:47 < truthr> Armand, artificial lab grown meat then
10:47 < lilltiger> truthr: So you hate cows ;)
10:47 < Armand> truthr: Gross
10:47 < Armand> And, not real meat
10:47 < truthr> psyk3d, i do believe in that
10:47 < truthr> it is really funny until you see some videos of how these animals life their lives and how they are killed
10:48 < Armand> truthr: I already know.. I worked as a butcher
10:48 < psyk3d> why videos? go a butcher
10:48 < truthr> Armand, damn
10:48 < truthr> live off of beans.  you will live longer, have better sex life, be happier
10:48 < notmike> That's what this chick was talking aboot. Lab grown meat.
10:48 < Armand> I did 2 days work at an abattoir during that time.
10:48 < Armand> truthr: "live off of beans"... I'd die.
10:49 < notmike> She'd rather eat something totally *unnatural* than kill animals for meat, perhaps in lower quantities
10:49 < shrdlu68> FMan: I don't understand your question.
10:50 < CrazyTux> is the discussion about Linux?
10:50 < Armand> Yes
10:50 < Armand> :trollface:
10:50 < truthr> Armand, at some point hopefully soon we should be able to make lab meat that is identical to the real thing
10:50 < Armand> No.
10:50 < Armand> Just.... No.
10:50 < shrdlu68> CrazyTux: ...and bioethics.
10:50 < cloudbud> what is the issue with this logrotation file https://pastebin.com/vArqQhwG
10:50 < truthr> why not?
10:50 < psyk3d> The problem is when we eat food for taste, we tend to eat a lot and enjoy unhealthy stuff! We should realise that food is just a fuel for the body
10:50 < Armand> Because it's disgusting and NOT meat
10:50 < truthr> eat it dammit
10:50 < Armand> Doesn't even taste like it.
10:50 < cloudbud> getting error error: /etc/logrotate.d/app.conf:15 missing '{' after log files definition
10:51 < truthr> maybe not now it doesnt
10:51 < Armand> Nor will it.
10:51 < lilltiger> Armand: https://www.hsa.org.uk/faqs/general#n9 << here is how animals are butchered in the UK, they are often stunned using electricity and then hung in CO2 untill they are dead while being bleed.
10:51 < truthr> but if it is chemically the same thing
10:51 < truthr> then it will
10:51 < Armand> lilltiger: "often".... but, anecdotes aren't worth anything.
10:51 < CrazyTux> https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jul/21/giving-up-beef-reduce-carbon-footprint-more-than-cars
10:51 < truthr> these animals are much, much smarter than the media has allowed us to know  over the last many decades.
10:52 < truthr> they don't want us to know otherwise we might hesitate eating them
10:52 < truthr> and hurt business
10:52 < truthr> sick
10:52 < lilltiger> Armand: indeed, so you should visit your local butchery and follow the process.
10:52 < Armand> I know exactly how the meat industry works, from the inside.
10:52 < psyk3d> truthr: +1
10:52 < Armand> From farm to plate.
10:52 < SuperSeriousCat> lilltiger, that one is not bad. And they are bled out AFTER they are killed. Muslims kill their food by bleeding them out while they are fully alive
10:52 < Armand> I've had my hand in every single phase.
10:52 < CrazyTux> https://insideclimatenews.org/news/20032018/beef-climate-impact-cows-carbon-footprint-methane-greenhouse-gas-emissions-diet-data
10:53 < shrdlu68> I think we may have taken the off-topic too far...
10:53 < CrazyTux> https://www.vox.com/2014/7/2/5865109/study-going-vegetarian-could-cut-your-food-carbon-footprint-in-half
10:53 < Armand> CrazyTux: I'd rather just ignore that completely.
10:53 < Armand> going vegan has exactly zero value to me.
10:54 < lilltiger> SuperSeriousCat: it depends on what you count as dead, as thire hearts do still pump (wich meny christians would consider alive) and they never check for a complete brain death, they just amsume they are dead.
10:54 < CrazyTux> I think human beings are designed to be vegetarian.
10:54 < Armand> Morning, Jimbo
10:54 < Armand> CrazyTux: No... and we're not "designed" at all.
10:54 < psyk3d> should we take it to ##vegan or some other place?
10:54 < CrazyTux> we have evolved to be vegetarians.
10:55 < Armand> HAHAHAHAHAA
10:55 < Armand> No, we haven't
10:55 < SuperSeriousCat> lilltiger, "The pigs then lose consciousness and must remain in the gas mixture until dead". Its not "Yay, they fell. lets get the knife". But last OT message from me
10:55 < CrazyTux> or have evovled from vegetarian animals
10:55 < Armand> We're omnivores.
10:55 < Armand> Teeth
10:55 < truthr> we can live just fine, in fact better, off of only plant life
10:55 < Armand> I can't.. and won't
10:56 < psyk3d> Armand: our teeth are more close to herbivorous than omnivorous!
10:56 < truthr> the next time you eat meat, think about the animal, how it was treated, how it was killed and be ashamed
10:56 < psyk3d> Look at you canines!
10:56 < psyk3d> small and puny
10:56 < truthr> also if you are a guy, being a vegan is a great way to score with hot women
10:56 < truthr> try it
10:56 < lilltiger> SuperSeriousCat: it is indeed differet from some halal, but there are also accepted halal that do exactly the same as the regular butchers, just slit them in different places. As the heart is beating and pumping out the blood in all cases.
10:57 < lilltiger> but indeed OT
10:57 < truthr> as soon as she finds out you are a vegan, that you care, whoa
10:57 < psyk3d> Halal/kosher is legal animal abuse !
10:57 < shrdlu68> truthr: I told you people don't empathize the same. That's the entire basis of this discussion.
10:57 < truthr> shrdlu68, right..some people are sick fucks
10:58 < truthr> they just don't know it yet
10:58 < shrdlu68> truthr: Not really, my point is even more profound.
10:58 < CrazyTux> https://tribune.com.pk/story/287111/10-things-i-hate-about-bakra-eid/
10:58 < psyk3d> we just cant call them sick fucks if they dont empathise with something we do!
10:58 < psyk3d> everyones experiences are different
10:58 < truthr> yes we can
10:58 < truthr> like killing whales
10:59 < CrazyTux> http://edtimes.in/2017/09/why-bakra-eid-is-the-stupidest-festival-there-is/
10:59 < lilltiger> And people make up things about the stuff they want to demonizise and then they themself starts to belive in the things they just made up.
10:59 < psyk3d> all you are doing is putting a bad name for vegans by calling people sick fucks rather than resoning with them
10:59 < shrdlu68> Case in point: slaughter of dogs like they do in Asia. The practise is revolting to westerners, yet there is practically no difference between dogs and cows or goats.
11:00 < truthr> By the way, the countries that still kill whales are -
11:00 < truthr> drumroll....
11:00 < truthr> Norway, Iceland, japan
11:00 < Aph3x-WL> dogs don't taste as good as cows
11:00 < truthr> Japan, Iceland, Norway
11:00 < psyk3d> isn't that a bit subjective?
11:00 < shrdlu68> Aph3x-WL: Well, that's a matter of taste.
11:00 < lilltiger> truthr: Russia as well right, and indonesia i think
11:00 < CrazyTux> every muslim household kills goats on their festivals
11:00 < truthr> lilltiger, i only see 3 at this website
11:01 < truthr> Canada allows clubbing baby seals to death
11:01 < CrazyTux> and Islam is still called a religion of peace.
11:01 < CrazyTux> lol
11:01 < lilltiger> truthr: well those 3 are the only 3 that do it officialy
11:01 < psyk3d> CrazyTux: lol
11:01 < truthr> the world is sick, people are sick
11:01 < truthr> you people make me sick
11:01 < psyk3d> people are not sick, just misguided
11:01 < lilltiger> so let's kill all the people
11:02 < morf> mkay
11:02 < CrazyTux> islam doesn't have mercy for animals.
11:02 < lilltiger> start with yourself!
11:02 < shrdlu68> truthr: You world-view is endearingly naive.
11:02 < CrazyTux> and for human beings also.
11:02 < notmike> I get my meat and eggs from the farm. The chickens, ducks, cows, etc all look like they're chilling with free rent to me.
11:02 < truthr> shrdlu68, thx i think
11:03 < truthr> it comes down to killing another living thing
11:03 < truthr> a line has to be drawn somewhere
11:03 < notmike> I've seen them smack the horses on the nose when they try to bite. But I've also seen them kiss the horses on the nose.
11:03 < psyk3d> lets draw a line here for this off topic tho
11:03 < shrdlu68> Yes please.
11:03 < notmike> psyk3d: why are you so sorry
11:03 < notmike> Angry
11:04 < notmike> W/e
11:04 < psyk3d> Im not angry?
11:04 < psyk3d> what makes you think Im angry?
11:04 < truthr> just try to reduce your meat consumption
11:04 < psyk3d> ________Back to linux______________
11:04 < truthr> try to get it to zero
11:05 < truthr> ok, linux
11:05 < notmike> I don't want it to be zero, though. I can't Linux well without meat. Linus said that.
11:06 < CrazyTux> would Jesus have approved of killing animals for food?
11:06 < psyk3d> oh man,
11:06 < sauvin> Yes, let's veer back towards GNU/Linux-related subject matter, please.
11:07 < notmike> Didn't he feed the great multitude with fishes and loaves, like... The original open-source project
11:07 < psyk3d> sudo rm -rf Jesus-trojan.exe
11:07 < notmike> See, you come off as buttsensitive when you do that
11:08 < CrazyTux> one should eat meat when one absolutely can't find vegetarian source of food.
11:08 < truthr> best general purpose linux book ever written is..?
11:08 < truthr> quick
11:08 < truthr> answer
11:08 < truthr> now
11:08 < sauvin> Man pages.
11:09 < CrazyTux> and should eat meat only to satisfy his hunger and not for satisfying his tastebuds.
11:09 < psyk3d> man
11:09 < sauvin> CrazyTux, move along.
11:09 < notmike> Does anyone have a Linux topic they really want to discuss? Seems like we're just conforming right now
11:09 < truthr> man pages...good answer i guess
11:09 < truthr> how about "Linux Bible"
11:09 < CrazyTux> and one should eat food with a sense of gratitude.
11:09 < notmike> Arch wiki
11:09 < sauvin> depends on what you can get your hands on, I guess.
11:09 < truthr> one should eat only plant life
11:09 < lopid> tiling window managers
11:09 < shrdlu68> Gentoo handbook.
11:09 < lopid> on linux
11:09 <@sauvin> ENOUGH.
11:09 < notmike> Systemd
11:10 < psyk3d> Start by getting to know a few simple commands
11:10 < truthr> man pages will have varying quality
11:10 < truthr> the quality of the instruction is vital
11:10 < notmike> s/commands/utilities/
11:10 < truthr> you must have well written high quality instruction
11:10 < truthr> with no errors
11:10 < sauvin> I learned perl from man pages initially. In retrospect, not sure I'd recommend it.
11:10 < psyk3d> Then Linux bible
11:11 < truthr> good answer
11:11 < notmike> Learning Perl?
11:11 < shrdlu68> I never got around to Perl. Then I got "The Awk Programming Language" and it seems I
11:12 < shrdlu68> 'll never need it.
11:12 < notmike> Awk is very legit
11:12 < CrazyTux> veganism is environment friendly
11:12 < sauvin> I did some pretty wild things with awk before perl came along.
11:12 < CrazyTux> it will save our planet
11:12 < notmike> That's how you impress chicks at the bars honestly
11:12 < Disconsented> If we swapped tomorrow it would likley fuck things up like no tomorrow
11:12 < psyk3d> depends a lot on what you want to get out of linux, though, is it just a replacement for mac/windows, or you wanna learn how to program
11:13 < sauvin> No, you impress girls at the bar by just sitting quietly in a corner minding your own business and licking your eyebrows.
11:13 < notmike> Lol ew
11:13 < psyk3d> drinking juice :P
11:13 < Disconsented> well look at mr long tounge here
11:13 < Disconsented> tongue*
11:13 < notmike> Haven't eaten a carb since 96
11:14 < strange> hey guys i want to forward a port over internet so any traffic that comes in on my shell port 6666 i want to forward to another internet adress on port 6666 then i want to limit the ips that can access that port with ufw is this possible?
11:14 < Armand> <truthr> also if you are a guy, being a vegan is a great way to score with hot women < Errrmmm.... I'm qualified to disagree in principle. :P
11:14 < strange> i want all traffic on that port to be forwardd and the replies returned
11:14 < lilltiger> You impress girls by wearing your Linux t-shirt and reading in the manual of a not too mainstream roleplaying game (so no D&D, too mainstream)
11:14 < shrdlu68> strange: ufw?
11:15 < Armand> I'm married... I won't divulge what impressed there, lilltiger :P
11:15 < strange> shrdlu68: ?
11:15 < Armand> I'm sure you can use your imagination... lmao
11:15 < strange> whats the question
11:15 < notmike> World of Darkness has the real freaks. LARPers
11:15 < strange> or can ufw forward ?
11:15 < shrdlu68> What is "ufw"?
11:15 < Armand> firewall
11:15 < lilltiger> Armand: I am sorry to hear that.. ;P
11:15 < Armand> lilltiger: har har. ¬_¬
11:15 < strange> shrdlu68: a firewall well its really just iptables made easier
11:16 < notmike> Iptables is already pretty easy
11:16 < shrdlu68> Ah, so an iptables frontend?
11:16 < strange> shrdlu68: kind of yes
11:16 < SuperSeriousCat> Its a front-end for iptables to make it easier to type rules, but it limit your choices quite a bit
11:16 < strange> notmike: its not give anyone that never used it before iptables and they will get lost
11:16 < lilltiger> ufw is if you take a retarded kid, and mate it with iptables..
11:17 < notmike> If you need front ends for basic utilities why are you even using Linux
11:17 < shrdlu68> Well, what you describe ought to be simple.
11:17 < strange> shrdlu68: please enlighten me
11:17 < sauvin> Your compiler is a front end to your CPU's native instruction set.
11:17 < CrazyTux> I feel Linux has to be made easier for non technical end users. As easier as it can be
11:18 < djph> notmike: well, people have to start somewhere ... and apparently "the documentation" is the wrong place to the PC-SJW-Millennial crowd.
11:18 < psyk3d> And I feel, "non technical" users shouldn't underestimate themselves!
11:18 < strange> CrazyTux: i agree i dont have a background in it and i do enjoy the interface alot better than any other OS i also dont have tons of times to learn it all so i take it bit by bit and yes i feel stuff like ufw helps users like me to use it
11:18 < djph> CrazyTux: or, we as a society have to stop accepting the excuse of "I'm not a computer person"
11:19 < strange> well its an excuse
11:19 < psyk3d> strange: +1
11:19 < lilltiger> Well then they should not use computers
11:19 < Armand> -4
11:19 < tomeaton17> I have an 822MB file called "core" in my home folder. I tried to open it with vim to see what it was, but it took way to long. How can I see what this file is?
11:19 < djph> CrazyTux: I mean, I'm definitely not a "car person", but I can do basic care of the vehicle ... and know when I have to call an expert (i.e. mechanic) to do other stuff.
11:19 < strange> basically you as a person can decide if you care to help others whenever help is asked
11:19 < strange> there is no society
11:19 < shrdlu68> Firewalld, an iptables frontend, is installed by default on CentOS.
11:19 < sauvin> lilltiger, you feel computer users shouldn't need front ends?
11:20 < strange> shrdlu68: how would i forward this stuff?
11:20 < tomeaton17> Am I correct in saying its a coredump?
11:20 < djph> tomeaton17: file <thatfile> will at least tell you the filetype
11:20 < lilltiger> sauvin: no, frontends are great. What I think is that people that do not want to learn how to use a computer should not use a computer at all.
11:20 < shrdlu68> strange: Using the ufw tool specifically? Or just using iptables rules?
11:20 < djph> it very well could be a core dump.  Did you segfault recently?
11:20 < strange> shrdlu68: just iptables is fine i know ufw cant do it
11:21 < CrazyTux> btw, what's your opinion on Mint 19?
11:21 < strange> shrdlu68: i can just ufw after this is working to not have it open to all
11:21 < tomeaton17> its an ELF
11:21 < psyk3d> I don't get it, why wouldn't you want to learn anything?
11:21 < Armand> CrazyTux: Not tried 19... yet.
11:21 < tomeaton17> djph: Not from any programming I have done myself, but my OS did recently glitch out
11:21 < psyk3d> obligatory: I use arch btw :P
11:22 < djph> tomeaton17: could've been that
11:22 < djph> an ELF?  that's a compiled binary
11:23 < tomeaton17> djph: Yes, but I just forced another coredump with my own code and that is also an ELF type
11:23 < shrdlu68> strange: You need two rules, one for the port forwarding and another to drop all traffic except from the whitelisted IP.
11:23 < djph> interesting (I've not core dumped in ages).
11:24 < tomeaton17> I guess I can just delete that file then.
11:24 < djph> tomeaton17: quick google says you can use gdb ...
11:25 < tomeaton17> djph: Ehh, I feel like gdb might run a bit slow on a 822Mb core dump
11:25 < djph> probably
11:25 < strange> shrdlu68: the whitelisted ips i can do from ufw so the iptables rule for the forward is all i need then i think
11:25 < tomeaton17> thanks for the help
11:26 < shrdlu68> strange: Port forwarding is a fairly common task: https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-port-redirection-with-iptables/
11:26 < strange> shrdlu68: it doesnt matter if its internet ip or not?
11:27 < shrdlu68> strange: You only want to forward for non-private-range IPs?
11:28 < strange> shrdlu68: yes i want to run this on a remote box i have
11:28 < strange> and access this from home to another device at another location
11:29 < strange> the device is non linux so thats why the in between has to do all the work
11:29 < strange> the in between box is the only thing i have with a static ip
11:29 < shrdlu68> strange: Port forwarding the simple way ought to work, it doesn't matter what the source IP is.
11:29 < strange> ok this also gets me the data back to the box i initiate from?
11:30 < shrdlu68> This will forward traffic from box A to box B, yes.
11:30 < shrdlu68> So you can reach B from C through A in this manner.
11:31 < strange> to clarify A is my house B is the box i run the iptables on and C is the device i want to reach
11:31 < strange> whatever C replies i get back to A ?
11:32 < fofalee> does ubuntu run on blobs in the OS, and the kernel...
11:32 < fofalee> if so which ones are the blobs, - because I used to think ubuntu is full open source, because the drivers like noveau stand as the attestment for it, what other drivers are blobs, and not GNU compatible.
11:32 < shrdlu68> strange: This is called transparent proxying, here's a better guide: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/TransparentProxy-6.html
11:34 < strange> shrdlu68: thank you
11:54 < Jellyg00se> Hi, when running a command like: sudo nethogs -d 5 >> /var/log/nethogs, access to /var/log/nethogs doesn't seem to inherit the privileges from sudo, why is this?  Also is there a way round this other than creating the file manually? Thanks :)
11:55 < buoyantair> Hey guys, why do I have to start my ssh-agent again and again?
11:55 < revel> Because you haven't set anything to automatically start it for you.
11:55 < buoyantair> Oh, how do I do that?
11:56 < revel> Well... I think DEs can do that for you. xfce can, at least, and there's no way KDE and GNOME can't.
11:56 < epicmetal> buoyantair: basically every DE besides GNOME gives you a GUI to set it
11:57 < epicmetal> buoyantair: for GNOME you have to create a .desktop file in ~/.config/autostart
11:57 < buoyantair> epicmetal: In my case, Im using a WSL (windows subsystem)
11:57 < buoyantair> with ubuntu, so i guess the only thing I can do is use a bashrc?
11:57 < epicmetal> buoyantair: WSL is offtopic, I'm afraid
11:58 < buoyantair> epicmetal: welp o.o but it's still linux right?
11:58 < epicmetal> buoyantair: no, it's GNU/NT, not GNU/Linux
11:58 < wasanzy> hello
11:58 < Jellyg00se> buoyantair, a hybrid :P  It's pretty broken from what I've used, but if the files/environment is persistent, can't you just use systemd?
11:58 < wasanzy> anyone with passbolt experience here?
11:59 < buoyantair> Jellyg00se: systemd??
11:59 < revel> WSL has init systems?
11:59 < epicmetal> I mean WSL probably *should* be on topic
11:59 < epicmetal> Dunno
11:59 < Armand> No
12:00 < revel> Last I checked, this channel was for regular ol' GNU/Linux.
12:00 < buoyantair> o.o
12:00 < buoyantair> hm
12:01 < epicmetal> This is one of the few times where 'GNU/Linux' should be used
12:01 < epicmetal> i.e. in the channel website
12:01 < buoyantair> okay I'll see if I can modify the bashrc
12:01 < buoyantair> and yes, files do persist
12:01 < buoyantair> :3
12:01 < chchjesus> I can't wait until systemd/Windows
12:02 < chchjesus> err
12:02 < chchjesus> systemd/NT
12:02 < buoyantair> :D
12:03 < truthr> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_izvAbhExY
12:03 < truthr> Staying Alive
12:08 < buoyantair> Soooo
12:09 < buoyantair> i figured out how to start the ssh agent and add my keys
12:09 < buoyantair> but now it asks me a password everytime I start a bash shell
12:09 < buoyantair> how can I fix that? :/
12:13 < alexandre9099> hi, is it possible to isolate lxc network from the local network (so that the host is the border gateway and hides all the network)
12:14 < alexandre9099> ?
12:16 < SuperSeriousCat> Dont know how LXC works. Maybe you can passtrough your NIC, alexandre9099?
12:17 < alexandre9099> i think i can, but that would expose the local network where the host is connected
12:20 < SuperSeriousCat> Will it? As I understand you blacklist the NIC on your host and passtrough it where you want it to be owned
12:20 < tds> iirc by default lxc (on ubuntu at least) sets up an internal bridge which is only user for the containers, then nats traffic out to the internet, which sounds like what you want
12:21 < tds> if you don't want the containers to be able to access certain local subnets, you can just drop that traffic with iptables on the host
12:23 < alexandre9099> tds, hmm i tought that there was something integrated that did that :) can iptables drop everything except one ip? for example, drop 192.168.0.0/16 (is it 16?) except 192.168.1.1 (the gateway)
12:24 < tds> alexandre9099: yes, iptables just processes rules in order, an accept rule for dest 192.168.1.1 and then a reject rule for dest 192.168.0.0/16 will do what you want
12:25 < alexandre9099> from the last one to the first one?
12:25 < alexandre9099> so the first rule issued takes priority?
12:27 < tds> It's slightly complex due to the different targets available (you probably want to search how iptables chains and jump targets work), but that's effectively the case
12:27 < shrdlu68> Yes, and -j {ACCEPT,DROP} stops processing of packet in current table.
12:28 < tds> ^ you basically keep going until you hit accept/reject/drop, that's it
12:28 < alexandre9099> ok, nice, thanks, iptables seems so complicated, but yet so powerful :D
12:28 < shrdlu68> alexandre9099: There are several front-ends, use those instead, you don't have to toil.
12:29 < shrdlu68> There's more to life than menial iptables work.
12:30 < alexandre9099> :D like ufw, right?
12:39 < searedvandal> ufw is a good frontend
12:42 < battleaxe> so I'm looking to import a zpool created on FreeBSD to ZoL, but I'm not sure of the version/featureset of the pool - beyond 'not working', is there any possibility that a zpool export in fbsd ==> then zpool import in debian 9 will do *harm* to the pool? or will it just not work (in which case I can safely re-import/continue using the pool in fbsd)
12:42 < battleaxe> thanks for any advice
12:51 < easy_ref123> any ideas why mail is not working for local users?
12:51 < easy_ref123> http://termbin.com/r3sd
12:55 < jim> easy_ref123, what are you observing that's telling you it's not working?
12:56 < easy_ref123> jim, I'm trying to send mail to a local user with the "mail" command - I'm not getting any errors, but nor am I getting anything in /var/spool/mail/user
12:58 < jim> easy_ref123, which MTA are you using?
12:59 < jim> easy_ref123, what do you get when you telnet localhost 25
13:01 < jim> easy_ref123, if you want to deal with it on your own, that's fine... but I'd request you let me know that so I'm not waiting for you to respond if you're not going to
13:26 < sveinse> In ext4, what characters can never occur in filenames?
13:28 < KekSi> sveinse: "all bytes except NULL and '/'"
13:28 < sveinse> KekSi: thanks
13:29 < KekSi> sveinse: though you may have to escape quite a few of those like 'touch myFileWithAnAsterisk\*' should be fine
13:30 < KekSi> doesn't work with \/ though (even escaping the slash won't work)
13:31 < sveinse> KekSi: Yeah, quoting for shell is a slightly different game
13:41 < conall> Hi. I am a little confused about something. On my system, /sbin/shutdown is a softlink to /bin/systemctl. But /sbin/shutdown --help is different to /bin/systemctl --help. Why is this the case? I assume /bin/systemctl just checks the calling script to differentiate between the two
13:48 < slackmare>  conal: what do you get when execute which shutdown?
14:04 < prinzpiuz_> l
14:04 < prinzpiuz_> ?invite
14:21 < cousteau> When I print a color document/image in grayscale from a document/image viewer/editor, all colors in the document become a level of gray.  In which point exactly does this magic happen?  Who does this?  The document viewer, the printing program, the printer driver, or the printer itself?
14:22 < cousteau> or something else I didn't think of?
14:23 < cheapie> Yay for "stupid Linux tricks" :P https://github.com/yarrick/pingfs
14:24 < cheapie> ...actually I think "stupid Linux tricks" would be trying to swap to that. But close enough :P
14:25 < cousteau> cheapie, omg, why.
14:25  * cheapie shrugs
14:25 < cheapie> It's the least reliable way ever to store... well, about 10KiB in my testing :P
14:25 < cheapie> But also the simplest way to delete data, just unplug the ethernet cable :P
14:25 < cousteau> wait, so technically you could store info on other people's servers?
14:26 < cheapie> Not really so much "on other people's servers" so much as just constantly in-flight on the network.
14:26 < cheapie> It's basically delay-line memory, using the internet as the delay line.
14:26 < cousteau> was thinking on the implications of "storing data on other servers"
14:26 < cheapie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delay_line_memory
14:27 < cousteau> yeah it's like storing info as resonating echo
14:27 < cheapie> As far as the servers are concerned, they're not really so much storing it as just forwarding it on to where it should go next, like any other packet.
14:27 < pingfloyd> cheapie: what's the point of that project?
14:27 < cheapie> pingfloyd: I'm guessing it was a "because we can" thing.
14:28 < cousteau> in fact, don't processors store memory using some sort of delay line?  It's pretty much how a digital flip-flop works, doesn't it?
14:29 < cheapie> No, not generally.
14:29 < cheapie> Flip-flops and such are basically just simple circuits that "latch" on or off on command. Each one stores one bit.
14:30 < cheapie> DRAM is a bit different, storing bits as charge in tiny capacitors, but the data stays in place and doesn't cycle through the memory.
14:30 < cousteau> but they rely on the delay produced by logic gates, right
14:30 < cousteau> ?
14:31 < hollusion> having problems with the keymap in remmina; connected to a server via xrdp; öäü work fine in here (xchat) but arrow keys dont, down arrow = enter, and in other apps, like discord, the öäü keys dont work (german keymap)
14:31 < cheapie> A typical flip-flop might need non-ideal behavior to come up in a known state (or at least not oscillating), but I don't think they need it in order to stay latched in a given state.
14:31 < cheapie> ##electronics can probably help answer that better than I can.
14:31 < pingfloyd> just need a differentiation between 1 and 0
14:32 < cousteau> oh I see, a delay line memory is able to store *multiple* bits
14:32  * cheapie nods
14:32 < cheapie> The basic idea is that you transmit *more* stuff before the first bit comes back, and you can keep multiple bits (or even KB) "in flight" at any given time.
14:33 < cheapie> Just every time data comes back, send it back out unless you want to get rid of it.
14:33 < cousteau> cheapie, wow, that's an interesting concept
14:33 < cousteau> sounds unreliable as hell though
14:34 < cousteau> but probably because I'm used to that kind of thing not being right... or well, in general, the fact that I have a digital mindset and analog stuff scares me
14:39 < hollusion> "At the console (no xrdp connection but locally on the system), type the following command to dump the keyboard layout" is there a way to do this via a remote rdp connection?
14:47 < kurahaupo> hollusion: if you're on an rdp connection, which keyboard do you want to get the layout from?
14:48 < hollusion> german
14:48 < hollusion> i already set the correct keymap for both
14:48 < hollusion> client and server
14:49  * cousteau has never known how remote connections deal with keyboard layouts, but in general it seems to be the client the one that does things
15:17 < infinisil> Lol I'm so stupid
15:17 < compdoc> Ive heard that
15:17 < infinisil> I had a tmux session running on my server that sends a push notification to my phone every 30 minutes
15:18 < infinisil> Tried to stop it
15:18 < infinisil> But it kept happening
15:18 < infinisil> Tried to stop it again, but it kept happening again!
15:19 < infinisil> Then I realize, out of habit, I kept using ^B-D to detach the session instead of actually terminating it with ^C..
15:20 < GunqqerFriithian> Oof, I've been recently using ^z and then manually using `kill` to get rid of things instead of ^c which honestly I should use
15:20 < infinisil> Lol
15:20 < pingfloyd> doing things the hard way
15:21 < pingfloyd> work smarter not harder
15:21 < jack_rip_vim> hi pingfloyd
15:21 < pingfloyd> hi
15:21 < jack_rip_vim> hi everyone!
15:21 < jack_rip_vim> :)
15:21 < GunqqerFriithian> yeah but sometimes I want to resume what I was running
15:22 < pingfloyd> that's when you'd ^Z it then
15:22 < GunqqerFriithian> oh also, fuck stuff that doesn't respond to ^c and just says "use <Key Combination> instead lolololol"
15:22 < pingfloyd> yeah!
15:22 < Psi-Jack> GunqqerFriithian: Kindly mind the language.
15:22 < pingfloyd> wtf are they doing disabling such a ubiquitous unix feature
15:23 < pingfloyd> I hate the more recent trends of that kind of mentality
15:23 < GunqqerFriithian> idk talk to cmus's dev(s)
15:23 < GunqqerFriithian> I had to remap it manually
15:23 < pingfloyd> that's enough to say screw their programs
15:23 < pingfloyd> only an amateur would disable ^c
15:24 < GunqqerFriithian> but CMUS is the best music player I've used
15:24 < jack_rip_vim> how about vlc?
15:24 < pingfloyd> GunqqerFriithian: write them an email to get with the progrm
15:24 < GunqqerFriithian> never liked it for playing music
15:24 < jack_rip_vim> or mpv?
15:24 < Psi-Jack> What? No vlc. mpv >* ;)
15:24 < GunqqerFriithian> them be fighting words
15:25 < jprjr> Part of me understands the concept that, to a lot of people ^c is "copy" not "send sigint" but if your program is designed to run in a terminal, y'know, don't mess with ^c
15:25 < jack_rip_vim> :D
15:25 < Psi-Jack> jprjr: Indeed.
15:25 < Psi-Jack> Most x-terminals in fact map copy to Ctrl+Shift+C
15:25 < pingfloyd> something like, "Your program is great and one of my favorites. If only you could stop being noobs and disabling ^c.  Just saying."
15:25 < jprjr> For music playing I prefer mpd + cantata and/or ncmpcpp
15:25 < mrw0rm> .q
15:25 < mrw0rm> wops, sorry :P
15:26 < GunqqerFriithian> well currently I'm having problems with libs so I can't open firefox rn so I'll do it later
15:26 < GunqqerFriithian> lol MrBeast
15:26 < GunqqerFriithian> ah fuck
15:26 < GunqqerFriithian> mrw0rm:
15:26 < jack_rip_vim> maybe kill command is another choice
15:26 < Psi-Jack> GunqqerFriithian: Mind the language.
15:27  * jack_rip_vim is saying a beast come with beauty~
15:30 < GunqqerFriithian> I love whend doing a full-upgrade removes stuff I kinda needed
15:31 < jack_rip_vim> GunqqerFriithian: what is your distro?
15:31 < GunqqerFriithian> ubuntu 16.04
15:31 < jack_rip_vim> GunqqerFriithian: apt auto remove  can remove the old packages
15:31 < jack_rip_vim> and those packages you don't need
15:32 < GunqqerFriithian> oh jesus, `sudo aptitude autoclean` cleaned half a gig
15:33 < jack_rip_vim> GunqqerFriithian: Guess you keep a lot of caches
15:33 < infinisil> As in, *just* a gig?
15:33 < jprjr> Usually if a package is being removed as part of an upgrade, it's just because the name changed, or some other package provides the same functionality. What packages are you losing specifically?
15:34 < GunqqerFriithian> konsole output is logged somewhere, yes?
15:34 < Psi-Jack> No.
15:34 < GunqqerFriithian> wait found the list
15:34 < GunqqerFriithian> libasoubd2-dev:amd64 libdbus-1-dev:amd64 libgles2-mesa-dev:amd64 libegl1-mesa-dev:amd64 libpulse-dev:amd64 libglib2.0-dev libsndi$
15:34 < GunqqerFriithian>  
15:35 < GunqqerFriithian> firefox wasn't working for a bit, but now it's launching again but konsole is not
15:35 < jprjr> Another thing that tends to cause that is third-party repos stomping over packages usually provided by the distro, or using packages from a different version of the same distro, etc
15:36 < GunqqerFriithian> I do have KDE plasma installed
15:36 < GunqqerFriithian> this is what happens when I try to rune `konsole` https://pastebin.com/raw/cxQVRcXz
15:37 < jprjr> Looks like you've got some weird version of qt installed or something
15:38 < GunqqerFriithian> with how I install stuff wontonly I wouldn't be surprised
15:38 < jack_rip_vim> GunqqerFriithian: do you upgrade your system from ubuntu 14.04 to ubuntu 16.04?
15:38 < GunqqerFriithian> nope, installed 16.04
15:38 < GunqqerFriithian> Install Date: Mon 25 Dec 2017 12:56
15:39 < jprjr> What about third-party PPAs, snaps, etc?
15:39 < GunqqerFriithian> I have have a few third party PPAs, no snaps or anything else ( I think)
15:40 < GunqqerFriithian> There is a non-zero chance that those PPAs I have are the culprit
15:40 < jack_rip_vim> GunqqerFriithian: have you see an error after you install ubuntu 16.04?
15:41 < jprjr> I'm guessing some PPA is keeping some library held back and messing with everything. That's based on my experience of PPA maintainers being terrible at maintaining their PPAs
15:41 < jack_rip_vim> GunqqerFriithian: and it should be show out after three months after you installed it.
15:41 < GunqqerFriithian> show out?
15:42 < jprjr> On Ubuntu, if it's not in a Ubuntu repo I just convince myself I probably don't actually need that package, or I compile from source myself.
15:42 < jack_rip_vim> GunqqerFriithian: you didn't get an error when ubuntu auto updating?
15:42 < GunqqerFriithian> no
15:42 < jprjr> I genenerally only enable PPAs on a boxes that serves a specific purpose, like if I want a newer PHP from a PPA, that is literally *all* that box is used for
15:43 < jack_rip_vim> I remember at March or April of 2017, when I updated ubuntu, I got an error.
15:43 < GunqqerFriithian> I just recently installed in dec so
15:43 < compdoc> heh
15:44 < jack_rip_vim> GunqqerFriithian: install ubuntu 18.04
15:44 < GunqqerFriithian> has 18.04.01 come out?
15:44 < jack_rip_vim> GunqqerFriithian: new ubuntu brand
15:45 < GunqqerFriithian> paste of PPAs I have and the command that listed them: https://pastebin.com/raw/e1nhVPJ4
15:45 < jack_rip_vim> GunqqerFriithian: https://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop
15:46 < jprjr> Your steam ppa says it's for precise
15:46 < GunqqerFriithian> I'm waiting for 18.04.01 to come out
15:46 < jack_rip_vim> sorry, it is new version
15:46 < twainwek> 10 years from now canonical realizes that gnome3 also sucks and reverts to a new de
15:46 < GunqqerFriithian> I'm pretty sure I got that from a guide so it could be wrong
15:46 < jack_rip_vim> GunqqerFriithian: oh, you run with xubuntu?
15:46 < GunqqerFriithian> twainwek: lol it's gunna take more time than that
15:46 < GunqqerFriithian> I use KDE Plasma5
15:47 < jprjr> My experience with KDE on Ubuntu has always been terrible, when people want a good KDE experience I recommend OpenSUSE
15:47 < GunqqerFriithian> I haven't had many problems
15:47 < jprjr> Their whole OBS system is great, too, for bringing in third-party packages
15:47 < GunqqerFriithian> one I have had is due to me using 16.04 and meaa updating
15:48 < jprjr> heh, "haven't had many problems. I cant start konsole tho" :-P
15:48 < jprjr> Sounds like a major problem there
15:48 < GunqqerFriithian> well, until now
15:48 < jack_rip_vim> GunqqerFriithian: does your DE shaking when you move windows?
15:48 < GunqqerFriithian> nope
15:48 < twainwek> +1 for opensuse. never had a more productive experience on any distro. their rolling release distro is more stable than most other distros ive used
15:48 < twainwek> any other*
15:49 < jack_rip_vim> +1 for archlinux
15:49 < jack_rip_vim> and Gentoo
15:49 < GunqqerFriithian> +1 for hannah montana linux
15:49 < twainwek> we're talking about productivity here
15:49 < redredhathat> +1 for bebian
15:49 < GunqqerFriithian> so does anyone have any ideas other than installing a new OS?
15:49 < jprjr> +1 for void linux. No joke my favorite distro right now.
15:49 < jack_rip_vim> for old, +1 for slackware
15:50 < td34> hey all, anyone got a sources.list for kali?
15:50 < redredhathat> jprjr void linux is a really interesting distro to keep my eye on
15:50 < jack_rip_vim> for slim, + 1 for puppy
15:50 < twainwek> GunqqerFriithian: have you tried googling the error?
15:51 < jprjr> GunqqerFriithian: it's the kind of thing that, if I were sitting down in front of the box I could probably get it fixed, but over IRC it'll take forever. Probably faster to just reinstall
15:51 < jack_rip_vim> GunqqerFriithian: I think you lose some packages when installed it
15:51 < jprjr> Just be a bit more diligent about PPAs, make sure they're for the right version of your distro, etc
15:51 < GunqqerFriithian> well, guess imma be testing how well deja-dup works tonight
15:53 < Pentode> GunqqerFriithian, you have two qt installations installed that aren't compatible with one another? (looking at your paste)
15:53 < GunqqerFriithian> jesus how did I get that to happen
15:53 < Pentode> lol
15:53 < GunqqerFriithian> more importantly, how do I fix it :P
15:54 < jprjr> I'd also recommend checking out how the Solus distro does steam, they've done some awesome work at making it integrate better with distros - https://github.com/solus-project/linux-steam-integration
15:54 < Pentode> well uninstall one. it'll likely break some applications.
15:54 < Pentode> i'd uninstall both, then install a fresh QT
15:55 < GunqqerFriithian> question: how would I do that
15:55 < Pentode> what distro are you using?
15:55 < GunqqerFriithian> ubuntu 16.04 lts
15:56 < jprjr> I think you'll spend literally all day in IRC trying to fix it vs just reinstalling. You've got a lot of PPAs enabled
15:56 < jprjr> I'll bet $1000 that some PPA is ruining everything
15:56 < GunqqerFriithian> I would not take that bet
15:57 < Pentode> well with that new information, remove all but the base ubuntu ppa's.
15:57 < Pentode> you can use synaptic to easily find out what packages you have installed
15:57 < Pentode> or apt remove every qt library you can find that you have installed
15:57 < Pentode> then do an apt autoremove and pray
15:58 < Pentode> then reinstall QT and pray again
15:58 < GunqqerFriithian> what do you suggest?
15:58 < jprjr> apt install ppa-purge
15:58 < Pentode> you may as well try first. if it breaks then you can reinstall. ;)
15:58 < jprjr> you can use ppa-purge to ensure not just that the ppa is removed, but packages are removed/downgraded too
15:58 < Pentode> ^ good suggestion
15:59 < GunqqerFriithian> prob should take note somewhere of what I'm removing so I can selectivly readd stuff if needed
16:01 < Pentode> after you run ppa-purge, you could do: apt list --installed | grep qt
16:02 < GunqqerFriithian> so with ppa-purge, do I want to purge everything?
16:03 < Pentode> should see a bunch of libqt4 / libqt5 packages. start picking them off if the problem isnt fixed after the purge.
16:03 < Pentode> im not sure how to use it, i never have.
16:03 < Pentode> maybe jprjr can chime in on that one
16:03 < GunqqerFriithian> yeah currently there's lots of things listed by that
16:04 < Pentode> you could _skip_ that step for now, run software & updates and uncheck everything accept for the main PPA
16:05 < GunqqerFriithian> huh. well. uh, fun thing software & updates doesn't seem to be opening
16:05 < BluesKaj> Howdy folks
16:07 < GunqqerFriithian> I found this script https://pastebin.com/raw/aRiLTbyi that outputs all the ppas I have installed and the command to purge them
16:07 < GunqqerFriithian> I know I shouldn't purge the kubuntu ppa as I am using plasma, but any others I shouldn't?
16:07 < alexandre9099> Can i set a 16:9 resolution on a 16:10 display?
16:08 < Pentode> just keep the main ppa and the kubuntu one
16:08 < GunqqerFriithian> ok
16:08 < GunqqerFriithian> well, here goes nothing
16:08 < alexandre9099> I would like to record 16:9 videos but doing so keeps black stripes on the sides
16:09 < Mibix> I keep getting this when i restart https://imgur.com/a/YqJLXCZ
16:09 < GunqqerFriithian> Pray that if anything goes wrong deja-dup works to restore everything
16:11 < Pentode> Mibix, post the output of: systemctl status fwupd.service
16:13 < Pentode> im being hailed.. be back in a few minutes (hopefully)
16:14 < compdoc> dont leave us!
16:16 < MibixFox> Pentode:  here is a little more https://imgur.com/a/cuxcsU7
16:16 < MibixFox> just force reset it
16:18 < Pentode> MibixFox, this is a disk i/o error.
16:19 < MibixFox> why is it halting a reset?
16:19 < Pentode> i'd suggest backing up. do a fsck and maybe see what smartctl -a says about the device
16:21 < Pentode> not sure
16:21 < Pentode> is the kernel responding? what does it say.
16:22 < MibixFox> that is all i can get
16:22 < MibixFox> i cant type anything
16:23 < Pentode> well the kernel's locked up then. it doesnt _always_ give a message when that happens.
16:23 < Pentode> boot off a rescue disk of some sort after backing up anything important and run a filesystem check
16:24 < MibixFox> sdi which had the io was just an external drive with data
16:24 < MibixFox> wasnt my os
16:24 < MibixFox> and after a force restart seems to be functioning fine
16:25 < GunqqerFriithian> ok ppa-purge doesn't seem to be working, but I may just not know how to use it
16:25 < Pentode> well if it happens again run a check on the disk. if it's in a usb box or something this could also be at fault.
16:26 < MibixFox> im fairly new to ubuntu what is the best way to check a disk?
16:26 < GunqqerFriithian> wait what? Ok, running `sudo konsole` opens fine, but `konsole` doesn't
16:27 < Pentode> unmount it and do: fsck /dev/sd*
16:27 < Pentode> GunqqerFriithian, what output do you get, if any, running it as root?
16:27 < MibixFox> i did a filesystem check in the disk manager and it said it was intact
16:28 < Pentode> then it may be an actual IO fault (controller) or just some random fluke i suppose.
16:28 < MibixFox> it has happened before
16:28 < MibixFox> why is it running fwupd
16:28 < GunqqerFriithian> QStandardPaths: XDG_RUNTIME_DIR not set, defaulting to '/tmp/runtime-root'
16:28 < MibixFox> is it trying to update my devices firmware and failing?
16:29 < Pentode> run smartctl -a on the drive
16:29 < Pentode> MibixFox, apparently it's loading firmware for "something." what that has to do with the drive, i don't really know. maybe someone else does.
16:30 < Pentode> hmm
16:30 < MibixFox> heh im not even seeing that device sdi
16:31 < MibixFox> wte ill leave it for now
16:31 < Psi-Jack> wte?
16:31 < ayecee> whatever
16:31 < Pentode> what the eck?
16:31 < Psi-Jack> MibixFox: shtspk like that is discouraged here.
16:32 < Pentode> GunqqerFriithian, im not sure what's going on at this point and without being there, well. you know how that goes. :/
16:32 < GunqqerFriithian> yup
16:33 < Pentode> GunqqerFriithian, manually edit /etc/apt/sources.list and comment out the PPAs
16:33 < Pentode> then do an update
16:34 < GunqqerFriithian> kk
16:35 < ibttis> hello guys
16:35 < Pentode> hi
16:35 < ibttis> Is Unbound better than systemd-resolved?
16:35 < winsoff> Has anyone written a timeline/history of linux?
16:36 < Psi-Jack> Many people have.
16:36 < winsoff> Are they any good?
16:36 < Psi-Jack> Only you can be the judge of that.
16:36 < shrdlu68> winsoff: The wiki article does go over the history.
16:36 < GunqqerFriithian> well imma restart my computer, see if that changes anthing
16:37 < GunqqerFriithian> taking bets on if I even boot
16:37 < winsoff> shrdlu68, does it cover the human aspect of history, or is it some sort of "and then this happened" middle school report? I guess I'll find out when I wake up.
16:37 < winsoff> Also, I should clarify: The history of the evolution of linux as a tool of human utility over time (and the utilities that compose it!)
16:37 < Pentode> there's a neat little documentary called the code or something on youtube. it's really old but covers the beginnings with interviews.
16:38 < Pentode> it also has linus driving a convertible to horrible music. a must see.
16:38 < jack_rip_vim> before Linux, there is 386BSD
16:38 < Pentode> also featured, Stallman eating grape tomatoes and talking about recipe oppression.
16:39 < jack_rip_vim> history is complex
16:39 < Pentode> there was minix for some of us, too.
16:40 < jack_rip_vim> for long long ago, when UNIX just born at lab...
16:40 < shrdlu68> winsoff: What about the Steven Levy book?
16:40 < jack_rip_vim> then, we saw UNIX 6
16:40 < jack_rip_vim> the hand out version of UNIX
16:40 < noway96> So when I use hdparm -I it spits out the drive as western digital. But the sticker say Dell. How do I get Dell instead of Western Digital, i.e., the OEM device identification instead of the mfgr?
16:42 < winsoff> shrdlu68, which one?
16:42 < shrdlu68> winsoff: You can also find Linus himself talking about it. In one video he talks about how he came to choose the GPL, how he had initially selected a "no money changes hands" policy, being a young man worried about money, etc.
16:43 < shrdlu68> winsoff: "Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution".
16:44 < Pentode> noway96, try hdparm -i
16:46 < winsoff> shrdlu68, I'll give it a look-over. Interesting.
16:46 < ManDay> From what I gather, Kerberos has an outright horrible architecture, much according to its proprietary origin. Is anyone aware of a viable alternative which works (and more sleekly so than krb) with PAM?
16:46 < ManDay> (and LDAP for that matter)
16:47 < shrdlu68> winsoff: Actually, it has no mention of Linux.
16:53  * jack_rip_vim thinks openning is good, but no all the open is good
16:56  * jack_rip_vim is watching West World. The tv series is nice, he think the west world may be created in this century.
17:07 < autopsy> Why can't I write over this file?
17:07 < autopsy> [autopsy@localhost scripts]$ sudo ls -lR / >myfile
17:07 < autopsy> -bash: myfile: Permission denied
17:07 < autopsy> [autopsy@localhost scripts]$
17:08 < jack_rip_vim> autopsy: ls -l myfile
17:08 < jack_rip_vim> autopsy: see if it is read-only
17:08 < autopsy> -rw-r--r--. 1 root root 26 Jun  8 07:36 myfile
17:08 < autopsy> It's rw by root.root
17:09 < jack_rip_vim> autopsy: can you cat it?
17:09 < ManDay> autopsy: the problem is in your redirection
17:09 < ManDay> it's not executed as sudo
17:09 < ManDay> rather, the output of "sudo ..." is written into the file as a normal user
17:09 < autopsy> ManDay, I can cat it's contents jack_rip_vim.
17:10 < autopsy> ManDay, how is that so?
17:10 < ManDay> That would be read privs, which doesn't necessarily allow you to truncate and write to it
17:10 < jack_rip_vim> autopsy: echo "sudo xx yyy " > myfile
17:10 < ManDay> autopsy: That's just how bash/sh works
17:10 < ManDay> If you want to redirect as part of sudo, you will have to do it the ugly way: sudo bash -c "ls / >/myfile"
17:11 < ManDay> (or something along those lines)
17:11 < autopsy> [autopsy@localhost scripts]$ echo "sudo xx yyy " >myfile
17:11 < autopsy> -bash: myfile: Permission denied
17:11 < autopsy> [autopsy@localhost scripts]$
17:11 < nchambers> | sudo tee myfile > /dev/null
17:11 < autopsy> ManDay, ok thank you.
17:11 < autopsy> nchambers, what does that do?
17:11 < jack_rip_vim> autopsy: must be under root, then do it
17:11 < ManDay> autopsy: in case of doubt, just use "sudo bash" interactively or "su"
17:11 < nchambers> autopsy: fixes your problem
17:12 < jack_rip_vim> autopsy: ManDay is right
17:12 < jack_rip_vim> nchambers 's suggestion also good
17:12 < autopsy> [autopsy@localhost scripts]$ sudo ls -lR / >myfile | sudo tee myfile > /dev/null
17:12 < autopsy> -bash: myfile: Permission denied
17:12 < autopsy> [autopsy@localhost scripts]$
17:12 < nchambers> ...
17:12 < nchambers> remove the > myfile
17:12 < jack_rip_vim> lol
17:13 < ManDay> autopsy: try to execute "man bash", it will magically solve most of your problems ;)
17:13 < autopsy> ManDay, I couldn't find redirection with sudo in it.
17:13 < djph> ManDay: obviously "read the output" is an important second step.
17:13 < autopsy> nchambers, ok its working now.
17:13 < ManDay> sudo is just a command like any other. try "man sudo" ;)
17:14 < autopsy> man sudo
17:14 < autopsy> wrong screen.
17:14 < ManDay> djph: well, either that or not pressing "q"...
17:15 < autopsy> Y ou guys are funny.
17:15 < autopsy> I was shocked I couldn't redirect to myfile under sudo well cause it works for most other things.
17:16 < autopsy> I don't like sudo anhyways. sudo su - root
17:16 < autopsy> gives me a shell without my password.
17:16 < jhodrien> sudo -i
17:16 < ManDay> sudo sudo sudo sudo su -c sudo bash
17:16 < autopsy> sudo -i works.
17:16 < ManDay> is that where "sudoku" comes from?
17:17 < ManDay> man sudo
17:17 < autopsy> su: user bash does not exist
17:17 < djph> ManDay: hahaha
17:17 < Karut> Hi, I'm a dumb and I have all my files in /home/myuser with wrong permissions, (777) how can i reset all the permisions with the ones it should have?
17:17 < jhodrien> Just start simple.  chmod 700 ~
17:17 < ManDay> autopsy: sorry, my bad:
17:18 < jhodrien> Then you can worry about doing it right.
17:18 < ManDay> sudo sudo sudo sudo su -c "sudo bash"
17:18 < jack_rip_vim> autopsy: I think the simple way is changing myfile's permisson
17:18 < autopsy> jack_rip_vim, yeah I just changed it perms.
17:18 < autopsy> ManDay, cool. That works.
17:19 < jack_rip_vim> autopsy: then ls -lR /* > myfile
17:19 < jhodrien> Karut: Because right now that's a security horror show.
17:19 < ManDay> autopsy: the lesser known little brother of "useless use of cat"
17:19 < jack_rip_vim> lol
17:21 < Karut> jhodrien: now i cant access the folders xDD
17:21 < jack_rip_vim> Karut: 755, should be
17:21 < jhodrien> Karut: If you own your home directory, and it's 700, you can access them.
17:21 < jhodrien> Why should your home directory be 755?
17:21 < jack_rip_vim> jhodrien: no , I mean the dir under /home/nickname
17:22 < jhodrien> Which isn't anything he'd mentioned thus far.
17:22 < jack_rip_vim> ok
17:22 < Karut> jhodrien: I've created the user with an arg to also create the home dir, idk why 700 does not work
17:22 < jhodrien> Because you're creating a directory that's not owned by the right user?
17:23 < jhodrien> You're seriously only providing a fraction of the information here.
17:23 < jhodrien> What have you done, and what are you trying to do?
17:24 < Karut> jhodrien: I did a backup of the contents of /home/myuser and did it wrong and all the permissions messed up, so I'm trying to reset the permissions on /home/myuser/* according to the user
17:27 < jhodrien> You're being fabulously vague.  Do you mean you've backed up all of /home and screwed it up for lots of users, or just a single user 'myuser' ?
17:27 < kurahaupo> Karut: permissions or ownership?
17:27 < Karut> jhodrien: single user
17:27 < autopsy> Karut, the user can be deleted and re-added using useradd.
17:27 < Karut> kurahaupo: both, the owner is root right now :C
17:27 < kurahaupo> Karut: start with sudo chown -Rc $USER: $HOME
17:28 < jhodrien> broadly speaking, chown -R myuser:myuser /home/myuser;chmod 700 /home/myuser;
17:28 < jhodrien> As to unpicking everything underneath that, you *can't* put it back to how it was.
17:28  * jack_rip_vim is watching all the mess things 
17:28 < autopsy> jhodrien, can't he recreate the user using useradd? And groupadd?
17:29 < jhodrien> autopsy: But that's not use if you've got existing content.
17:29 < jhodrien> If you're starting from having gigs of files lurking in a home directory, where does that gets you?
17:29 < autopsy> How do you start rc.local in systemd?
17:29 < autopsy> jhodrien, you're right. He can copy them outside though.
17:29 < Karut> jhodrien: the chmod part of the command shouldn't have a -R?
17:29 < rypervenche> Karut: Easy to do. I PMed you some extra information regarding permissions that may help.
17:29 < jhodrien> chmod -R og-rwx ~;find ~ -type f -exec chmod 600 +
17:30 < jhodrien> Karut: It entirely depends what you're trying to do.  I was going for the immediate safety approach.
17:30 < jhodrien> If ~ is 700, you don't immediately have to care about the permissions underneath.
17:30 < jhodrien> You fix those later.
17:31 < jhodrien> But if you wipe out all your permissions you have to accept that you can never restore them back to what they were without knowing what they were before.
17:31 < jhodrien> rypervenche: Go on then, how do you restore permissions when you've wiped them all out?
17:32 < Karut> jhodrien: it was a pretty simple user folder, Documents, images... and dotfiles afaik
17:33 < kurahaupo> Karut: chmod -Rc go= ~user/.ssh
17:33 < jack_rip_vim> Karut: for dotfile, I think it is good idea to just give +rw permission
17:33 < rypervenche> jhodrien: chown -R karut:karut /home/karut; find /home/karut -type d -exec chmod 755 {} \; find /home/karut -type f -exec chmod 644; then manually change .ssh to 700 and any authorized_keys file to 600. You could also go with 700 and 600.
17:34 < rypervenche> And any personal scripts will need to have exec permissions, if they had them before.
17:34 < jhodrien> Don't use \; with find unless you have to.  Don't make everything 755 in your home directory.
17:34 < jhodrien> There's nothing that makes that sensible.
17:34 < jhodrien> I can understand 750.
17:34 < rypervenche> jhodrien: Then 700 and 600. Doesn't matter. Commands are the same.
17:35 < jhodrien> That's basically what I've already posted.
17:35 < Dan39> jhodrien: how do you use -exec then? examples use \; and ive always used \; without an issue...
17:35 < jhodrien> find . -name rabbits -exec chmod 600 +
17:35 < rypervenche> That would work as well and be faster.
17:35 < jhodrien> + is quicker  than \; and is less yakky.
17:35 < kurahaupo> find ~user -type d -exec chmod 700 {} + -o -exec chmod 600 {} +
17:36 < jhodrien> I've never liked \; from a aesthteic point of view.
17:36 < Dan39> jhodrien: me either
17:36 < jhodrien> kurahaupo: Tidier.
17:36 < Dan39> jhodrien: there is a difference between \; and + though, and different use cases i think
17:36 < kurahaupo> Or just chmod -R go= ~user
17:37 < learningc> I'm having a strange behavior.  I have an executable file and have 777 permission, but Linux fails to grant permission.  Why?
17:37 < jim> be very careful with chown -R, it can be destructive, and the shell is very expressive... that combination could mean if you put a space in the wrong place, all your files could end up changed and that could cause your system to fail... just be careful, count to ten (or 100) before hitting enter, make sure everything's spelled right and each parameter is correct
17:37 < jhodrien> Dan39: They are indeed different.
17:37 < jhodrien> + is akin to playing with xargs.
17:37 < rypervenche> kurahaupo: And if you have symlinks pointing to directories? That would set the directories to 600.
17:38 < kurahaupo> Dan39: ';' does a separate invocation per path but '+' does as many paths as possible per invocation
17:38 < jhodrien> Another gotcha.
17:38 < Dan39> right, i can read, thanks
17:38 < jhodrien> chmod follow symlinks.
17:38 < jim> aside, you'd have to be running as root to run chown, so be careful with that too
17:38 < kurahaupo> rypervenche: good point
17:38 < Dan39> thats what i was getting at
17:38 < jhodrien> So your tidier form kurahaupo is a touch risky.
17:39 < kurahaupo> find ~user -type d -exec chmod 700 {} + -o ! -type l -exec chmod 600 {} +
17:39 < jhodrien> Quite.
17:40 < kurahaupo> It's no more risky than the previous two finds
17:40 < jhodrien> type f and type d won't match symlinks.
17:41 < jim> it's good to know your shell very well
17:41 < kurahaupo> Oh right, it checked for -type f, which would have missed fifos & sockets
17:42 < jim> it can do things that some here might not understand, and that's ok, that's why you're learning about it
17:42 < jeffree> my linux computer just froze and was completely unresponsive, I hard reset it, it would not finish booting 3 times, fourth try it booted. How can I figure out what caused it? This is the only time this has happened, I think
17:43 < kurahaupo> jeffree: check syslog
17:43 < jeffree> it didn't even respond to sysrq commands
17:43 < jim> jeffree, well the conditions that caused this thing may be long gone, but maybe there are small bits of evidence in your logs
17:43 < jhodrien> kurahaupo: It's easy to miss something whatever you do.  I'd already done "chmod -R og-rwx ~", and I've no idea what permissions you really want on some of the files.
17:44 < jhodrien> chmod -R doesn't follow symlinks as far as I'm aware, so you don't get caught by the same trap you hit with find and chmod.
17:44 < jeffree> kurahaupo: I did. at the point that it froze syslog just has a block of  @^@^@^@^@^@, nothing telling but I don't know what to look for
17:44 < jhodrien> jeffree: You run memtest on it?
17:44 < jeffree> jhodrien: I have before, not today
17:44 < jhodrien> smart tested the disks?
17:45 < jhodrien> Not likely unless you hit some fun with swap.
17:45 < kurahaupo> jeffree: oh great, you have syslog on a filesystem that's mounted with sync metadata but delayed data
17:45 < jack_rip_vim> jeffree's problems has been mention here
17:46 < kurahaupo> jeffree: sorry there's not much more we can do to find out your problem. I would run some hardware diagnostics just to be sure
17:46 < autopsy> jeffree, you got some probs man.
17:46 < autopsy> smartctl --test long /dev/sda
17:46 < jack_rip_vim> last times, I forgot who said it.
17:47 < jack_rip_vim> jeffree: do you run golang on your server?
17:47 < jhodrien> Worth having a crack with smartctl, although you shouldn't get a totally frozen box with a failing disk.
17:48 < autopsy> jhodrien, my smart tests said it failed a read block at like LBA 4800032540
17:48 < jeffree> autopsy: I have an nvme drive. nvme smartlog doesn't seem to show anything problematic
17:48 < learningc> my mount path has noexec flag. But in fstab, there is no such mention. Where did mount get this flag from?
17:48 < autopsy> jeffree, whats an NVME drive?
17:48 < jeffree> jack_rabbit: no
17:49 < jeffree> autopsy: samsung 960 pro
17:49 < jack_rip_vim> jeffree: look like the memory map has some problems
17:49 < jack_rip_vim> it should be some bug
17:49 < jack_rip_vim> s
17:50 < metabsd> We change WWID in our SAN to use a backup disk to test our backup system. We clone the disk to another one. When we boot the WWID change and I think multipath / devicemapper / grub don't see it. There's a way to fix that ?
17:51 < autopsy> metabsd, use UUID as a disk specifier where you can. Use it with the grub linux command line parameters for root=$UUID
17:51 < RayTracer> jeffree: the smart log probably won't contain something unless you start a test (smartctl -t). Read errors can't be corrected by the disk, so something needs to write that block to trigger the reallocation
17:52 < autopsy> RayTracer, yeah he should run a smart test.
17:53 < metabsd> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/XZc3QrqX/
17:53 < metabsd> We already use UUID for boot device but I think I cannot use UUID with lvm
17:53 < RayTracer> autopsy: oh, I mixed up lines (and therefore nicks, issues)..
17:53 < metabsd> We already use UUID for boot device but I think I cannot use UUID with lvm
17:53 < jeffree> actually, it has 5 errors in the log, but I don't know if they are new or thing I did months ago
17:54 < autopsy> jeffree, what are they?
17:54 < RayTracer> jeffree: it should mention the power on hours as a timestamp, you can see the current power on hours with smartctl -a
17:55 < jack_rip_vim> jeffree: maybe you want to pastebin it
17:55 < jeffree> RayTracer: sure, do we need that?
17:55 < RayTracer> jeffree: to clarify if it's old or not, probably
17:56 < Nirvash> So my end goal is to get 'path/to/command $var1 $var2' to be written to a file. I have echo 'path/to/command $var1 $var2' > file.sh but nothing is happening... any thoughts?
17:56 < autopsy> Nirvash, yeah. What is nothing?
17:57 < Nirvash> I get an exit code, and 'cat file.sh' has no contents
17:57 < jim> absense of anything?
17:57 < WhereIsMySpoon> Hi - I'm trying to get maven installed manually on alpine linux, and its saying it cant find java, even though I can see it right here at /opt/jdk/bin/java...even if I do /opt/jdk/bin/java the shell says /bin/sh: /opt/jdk/bin/java: not found
17:57 < autopsy> Nirvash, ah. Ok. Are you root?
17:57 < jack_rip_vim> does vi file.sh show something? Nirvash
17:58 < WhereIsMySpoon> im in a docker container so im using root user
17:58 < autopsy> WhereIsMySpoon, that is really strange.
17:58 < metabsd> We already use UUID for boot device but I think I cannot use UUID with lvm
17:58 < Nirvash> autopsy — I'm in a user account for this, but I do have write permissions for the directory and file
17:58 < autopsy> metabsd, you can use UUID with LVM2.
17:59 < Nirvash> jack_rip_vim — Nothing in vi either
17:59 < RayTracer> metabsd: you probably need to boot a rescue and fix the multipath, which usually is done with WWID. Then, lvm probably continues if the multipath exists. OTOH, I already had lvm work on the multipath component devices (during configuration issues with multipath).
17:59 < jack_rip_vim> Nirvash: it may be an empty file~
17:59 < autopsy> Nirvash, can you touch file.sh
17:59 < autopsy> Nirvash, does touch give you an error?
18:00 < metabsd> Thx!!!
18:00 < Nirvash> So script.sh is supposed to ask two questions, then generate a file with the response so you can just use file.sh to execute a command with those two responses
18:00 < autopsy> Nirvash, maybe your /usr/bin/echo is corrupted.
18:00 < RayTracer> metabsd: you should be able to get more insights from the emergency shell that should come up on the non-booting system
18:00 < Nirvash> I can use touch without an issue
18:00 < Nirvash> And I can use echo in other locations, just not to write that specific file =/
18:01 < autopsy> Nirvash, what are the permissions on the file who is owner and who is group its owned by?
18:03 < Psi-Jack> metabsd: "thanks". shtspk like "thx" is highly frowned upon and discouraged here.
18:03 < Nirvash> Owner / Group are the current user — permissions are 755 (no write for user / group it looks like)
18:03 < Nirvash> Correction
18:03 < Nirvash> No write for group / all users*
18:03 < jeffree> ok, I'm probably in trouble. smart output said 0% used. I'm not sure if that meant disk usage but if yes it's wrong. I started disk usage analyzer and my system immediately froze again. What should I do? I don't have backups. Yes, I know, I have been planning to buy disks lately.
18:03 < RayTracer> autopsy: echo usually is a shell builtin (at least with bash)
18:04 < Psi-Jack> No backups? Data's not important enough to keep then.
18:04 < jeffree> ffs
18:04 < jeffree> can you read?
18:04 < Psi-Jack> I can.
18:04 < Psi-Jack> I read fully.
18:04 < twainwek> jeffree: just ignore him
18:04 < jeffree> done
18:05 < Psi-Jack> jeffree: Only thing I can suggest is... Buy yourself a copy of SpinRite, and maybe it'll help force your HDD to recover itself.
18:05 < autopsy> RayTracer, check this out:
18:05 < autopsy> [root@localhost rc.d]# which echo
18:05 < autopsy> [root@localhost rc.d]#
18:05 < jhodrien> jeffree: smarctl doesn't say 0% used.  What did it actually say?
18:05 < jack_rip_vim> I remember, last times, I lost all the papers on my computer
18:05 < jim> it's not worth what itwould do to the channel if the ignore wasn't placed
18:05 < Nirvash> For recovery you have Disk Digger, Autopsy, GDBSIM, Recuva, RStudio8, Stellar Phoenix, Test Disk
18:05 < jack_rip_vim> backup is a good idea
18:06 < autopsy> Autopsy is good.
18:06 < jeffree> jhill__:  Percentage Used:                    0%
18:06 < jeffree> jhodrien: ^
18:06 < RayTracer> autopsy: which echo gives /bin/echo here. What does "command -V echo" tell?
18:06 < Nirvash> Any of them will work to a limited degree — if it's hardware-based, then I would recommend stopping usage ASAP, getting another system, connecting the drive, then using one of those programs
18:06 < jeffree> that might be spare
18:06 < Nirvash> If it's software-based, then you will have higher results jeffree
18:06 < autopsy> RayTracer, it should have printed /usr/bin/echo
18:07 < Nirvash> higher success / greater results**
18:07 < jeffree> Nirvash: what?
18:07 < jhodrien> I think you're missing some context there.
18:07 < jhodrien> Endurance indicator?
18:07 < RayTracer> autopsy: I'm on Fedora, /bin is a symlink to /usr/bin
18:07 < Nirvash> jeffree — check my posts from 12:05, 12:06
18:07 < autopsy> RayTracer, means that if there is a builtin it's not getting called as /usr/bin/echo Yeah Fedora here too.
18:08 < autopsy> RayTracer, is Fedora 28 any good is it worth the upgrade?
18:09 < RayTracer> autopsy: I have my laptop and a vm on f28, didn't reveal major grunts yet, just minors (like changing display manager look&feel)
18:10 < Psi-Jack> jeffree: Did you see what I suggested about SpinRite?
18:11 < kazdax> dd is much faster way of making a bootable USB
18:11 < RayTracer> autopsy: "worth the upgrade".. you should upgrade sooner or later anyways (and I should work more on migrating away from f24.. ;) )
18:11 < kazdax> so i have noticed
18:11 < metabsd> Psi-Jack:  I just want to say thank you.
18:11 < Psi-Jack> metabsd: For?
18:13 < kazdax> Psi do i have to umount the DVD to be able to use dd
18:13 < kazdax> or can i use dd otherwise too ?
18:13 < Psi-Jack> When addressing me, My nick is not Psi
18:13 < jeffree> jhodrien: https://paste.ee/p/SzVm8
18:13 < merpnderp> What's the drawback of using MySQL's apt repo vs using Ubuntu's 16.04 apt repo to manage mysql installs?
18:13 < Psi-Jack> jeffree: Hello?
18:14 < buoyantair_> Guys, are ssh-agents meant to persist?
18:15 < Psi-Jack> buoyantair_: ssh-agent is a daemon process, so, yes.
18:15 < buoyantair_> Like, everytime i start a bash shell, new ssh-agents are started (via bashrc)
18:15 < buoyantair_> Psi-Jack, well then, wouldn't it lead to a ton of processes?
18:15 < buoyantair_> o_O
18:15  * jack_rip_vim lol
18:15 < Psi-Jack> Though you should avoid using ssh-agent, as it's insecure.
18:15 < RayTracer> buoyantair_: that's wrong, it should be started with your session
18:15 < Psi-Jack> buoyantair_: Not if you do it right.
18:16 < RayTracer> buoyantair_: or put code to .bashrc to set the vars right so it connects to an already running one
18:16 < buoyantair_> RayTracer, Oh, so I am definitely doing something wrong, because I am trying to start ssh-agent and add my keys in .bashrc
18:16 < buoyantair_> RayTracer: How do I do that? :/
18:16 < Psi-Jack> buoyantair_: First, what distro?
18:16 < buoyantair_> ubuntu, on WSL...
18:16 < Psi-Jack> WSL is not supported here.
18:17 < buoyantair_> But it should work more of less
18:17 < RayTracer> buoyantair_: http://dpaste.com/0CT980V
18:17 < Psi-Jack> WSL is not supported here.
18:17 < buoyantair_> It's just linux under the hood right?
18:17 < metabsd> Psi-Jack: Helping :)
18:17 < Psi-Jack> No.
18:17 < Psi-Jack> There is 0% linux running on WSL.
18:17 < ayecee> it's literally windows under the hood.
18:18 < buoyantair_> Really? :O
18:18 < Psi-Jack> Really.
18:18 < buoyantair_> So they are just mimicking it? o-o
18:18 < buoyantair_> source? :O
18:18 < Psi-Jack> google.com
18:18 < ayecee> wsl is to linux like wine is to windows
18:18 < RayTracer> buoyantair_: there's a comment above the code: "don't use gnome-keyring ssh, it doesn't support ecdsa keys" (this explains line 1)
18:19 < Psi-Jack> ecdsa is bad anyway. :)
18:19 < RayTracer> why?
18:19 < Psi-Jack> ed25519, however... That's what gnome-keyring actually doesn't support, and is sad.
18:20 < jeffree> should I just run memtest for awhile?
18:20 < ayecee> couldn't hurt
18:20 < buoyantair_> RayTracer: Hmm I really need to learn bash one evening..
18:21 < Psi-Jack> jeffree: How much RAM you got?
18:21 < RayTracer> buoyantair_: it's definitely worth it. "man bash" ftw.
18:21 < jeffree> another thing, this is 3200mhz ram, should I leave it at 3200 or reduce it?
18:21 < buoyantair_> RayTracer: !! Yup!! Im stuck to windows because job ugh
18:21 < RayTracer> if it's specified for that (and works), run it at that
18:21 < jeffree> ok, yes it is speced for it
18:22 < Psi-Jack> jeffree: Are you ignoring me? :(
18:22 < jeffree> going to run it for at least an hour, not sure how long is required
18:22 < ayecee> seems like it
18:22 < Psi-Jack> It does.
18:23 < jeffree> ayecee: you talking to me?
18:23 < ayecee> no
18:23 < Psi-Jack> Ahh.. Damnit twainwek.
18:24 < Psi-Jack> jim: I have an official complaint about twainwek. He's constantly targetting me and trolling.
18:24 < ayecee> have you tried /ignore
18:24 < Psi-Jack> I have.
18:24 < jack_rip_vim> Aha! weeken is coming
18:24 < twainwek> oh the irony
18:24 < jack_rip_vim> ~
18:24 < Psi-Jack> When he tells others to ignore me because he said to, that's over the top.
18:24 < RayTracer> jeffree: usually if ram is bad it will show up very soon. I have ram that mentioned in the package insert that they programmed SPD with lower specs and you should increase voltage and manually set higher freq.. I probably shouldn't buy from that vendor anymore.
18:24 < ayecee> well, no, it's not over the top.
18:25 < twainwek> 'he's constantly [...] and trolling', said the only person here who's people brush off for being arrogant and condenscending in his responses
18:25 < Psi-Jack> The constant targetting is definitely an issue, now he's taken it to target indirectly directly.
18:26 < twainwek> who people have*
18:26 < ayecee> i don't think people would ignore you just because twainwek said so
18:26 < ayecee> he's not that important
18:27 < twainwek> it's a very convenient way for him to think about it though
18:27 < ayecee> shush you
18:27  * jack_rip_vim is downloading /freebsd/netbsd/openbsd to see which bsd can hold his shity old computer for more future.
18:28 < Nirvash> so  echo '~/user/kiwix/kiwix-serve --port=$port $path' > kiwix_start.sh
18:28 < Nirvash> isn't writing to kiwix_start.sh at all... any thoughts?
18:28 < Nirvash> I'm out of ideas.
18:28 < Psi-Jack> ayecee: According to myu ZNC logs, that's exactly what happened.
18:28 < ayecee> so, you had never talked to jeffree before that?
18:29  * jack_rip_vim thinks if BSD can't work, he may choose Plan 9 on his old shity computer.
18:30 < Psi-Jack> I mentioned how not having backups means the data isn't important.
18:30 < gunqqerfriithian> So, well, yeah I restarted and my computer is slightly borked
18:30 < gunqqerfriithian> and when I say slightly I can't even get to a graphical login
18:31 < ayecee> i see
18:31 < jack_rip_vim> gunqqerfriithian: change .xinit file to 755
18:31 < twainwek> gunqqerfriithian: what did you do, and what happens exactly
18:32 < gunqqerfriithian> well so a bit ago today I updated my computer, and it removed some packges doing so. This caused firefox to not open. Bit later and updating again firefox worked, but konsole wouldn't open unless done as superuser. Thought QT was the  culprit as it seems multiple versions were installed and were conflictings. Disabled all PPAs, updated, and now whenI boot I enter by crpyt password, and it just starts flashing black at me
18:32 < gunqqerfriithian> I can ctrl alt f2 to drop to command line
18:33 < Psi-Jack> Eh, well, I sent jeffree a memoserve.
18:33 < twainwek> gunqqerfriithian: anything interesting in your xorg log
18:33 < gunqqerfriithian> how would I get to that from my bootable USB
18:33 < jack_rip_vim> gunqqerfriithian: I think you want to backup data, then reinstall it
18:34 < gunqqerfriithian> I have backups most recently yesterday
18:34 < gunqqerfriithian> thank god I do daily backups
18:34 < twainwek> ^ i agree. you already spent 2-3 hours trying to fix an incompatible lib
18:34 < jack_rip_vim> gunqqerfriithian: reinstalling will be much simple
18:34 < gunqqerfriithian> Honestly I prob will give up trying to fix it and just wait till I get home
18:35 < gunqqerfriithian> Yeah but then getting all my data back on will take longer
18:35 < gunqqerfriithian> although I may just want to update to 18.04
18:35 < jack_rip_vim> gunqqerfriithian: so, get the new ubuntu, reinstall your laptop
18:36 < gunqqerfriithian> You can install ubuntu over itself and it should keep all your stuff, right?
18:36 < Psi-Jack> That's a bad idea.
18:36 < twainwek> also look at your xorg file to see if you see any errors
18:36 < ayecee> dunno. give it a try, let us know :D
18:36 < gunqqerfriithian> where is the xorg file?
18:37 < twainwek> probably /var/log/Xorg.0.log
18:37 < jack_rip_vim> gunqqerfriithian: actually, during installing ubuntu, it has an option, that will keep all the data under /home/yournick
18:37 < gunqqerfriithian> may have to try that, jack
18:38 < jack_rip_vim> gunqqerfriithian: good to have a try
18:38 < gunqqerfriithian> pastebin on xorg log https://pastebin.com/raw/rkGHfkdX
18:38 < twainwek> importing old config files may break things when upgrading distros
18:39 < twainwek> gunqqerfriithian: look at the (EE)'s
18:39 < gunqqerfriithian> I have no idea what that means
18:39 < twainwek> i mean search for '(EE)' in that file
18:40 < gunqqerfriithian> ok, uh, no idea what any of it means
18:40 < gunqqerfriithian> only think I understood was "no screens found"
18:42 < twainwek> looks like you lost your video card drivers/.
18:42 < gunqqerfriithian> jesus christ
18:42 < jack_rip_vim> gunqqerfriithian: look like you have no choice
18:42 < twainwek> what did you remove
18:42 < gunqqerfriithian> I personally removed nothing
18:42 < gunqqerfriithian> lemme try to find the pastebin of what I managed to figure out was removed
18:43 < gunqqerfriithian> why didn't I title my pastes :\
18:46 < gunqqerfriithian> So yeah can't find
18:46 < gunqqerfriithian> it
18:46 < gunqqerfriithian> I think it did stuff with something that started with w and ended in a dash with like bin and dev and stuff like that
18:46 < twainwek> see if you can get a recent log of your package manager
18:47 < twainwek> or whatever you used to modify things
18:48 < gunqqerfriithian> https://pastebin.com/raw/fhL4ptcV
18:48 < dive> Hi. Does anyone have a Xonar D2X sound card, and does optical out work with the standard alsa driver?
18:49 < dive> Mine seems broken. Caox is fine though.
18:49 < dive> Coax, even.
18:49 < fbi> make sure it is configured to actually use the optical out
18:50 < dive> There's no switch to choose which to use.
18:50 < dive> According to the manual you just use their little adaptor and it should work.
18:51 < dive> I tried two but nada.
18:51 < twainwek> gunqqerfriithian: were you using wayland?
18:51 < dive> It's a weird RCA socket that apparently has toslink inside it, but I see no light.
18:52 < qwebirc493951> wayland? isn't that name of 17
18:52 < dive> IE it's coax and toslink in one.
18:52 < qwebirc493951> wait yeah no the name of it was wayland
18:52  * fbi would try with pulse
18:52 < qwebirc493951> I knew it started with w!
18:52 < qwebirc493951> I think
18:53 < GunqqerFriithian> I shoulda just ghost killed instead of waited
18:53 < GunqqerFriithian> but yeah twainwek I do think I was using wayland
18:54 < twainwek> oh i've had 0 exposure to wayland
18:55 < dive> pavucontrol doesn't even see it for some reason.
18:55 < GunqqerFriithian> Is there any way to open a shell from a disk while on a bootable disk
18:55 < twainwek> mount the disk
18:56 < GunqqerFriithian> ok
18:58 < fbi> dive: something highjacking the card?
18:58 < fbi> if by "it" you mean the card
18:59 < jack_rip_vim> Ready to get outside for a walk, bye!
18:59 < dive> Well I have jackd using the spdif, but the non-digital controls sho9uld show up. They do in alsamixer.
19:00 < dive> Also I have USB speakers plugged in and they don't show in pulse either.
19:01 < dive> All that shows is the nvidia hdmi thing.
19:04 < fbi> jack and pulse doesn't mix unless you set it up in a spesific way
19:04 < dive> I'll kill jack when this programme finishes and see if it helps.
19:10 < WhereIsMySpoon> Hello, im trying to do some stuff to get glibc programs working in alpine, and im trying to do chroot ~/chroot/ /bin/sh and it says 'cant execute /bin/sh no such file or directory'
19:11 < WhereIsMySpoon> so /bin/sh exists and so does ~/chroot/bin/sh (which is a symlink to /bin/busybox)
19:11 < bls> WhereIsMySpoon: you're off in uncharted territory, should probably talk to #alpine-linux
19:11 < jprjr> Your busybox might be dynamically linked and you're missing the runtime libc
19:12 < dive> Why not just chroot /bin/busybox?
19:12 < WhereIsMySpoon> im following https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Running_glibc_programs
19:12 < jprjr> I usually build a static busybox to avoid exactly that
19:12 < WhereIsMySpoon> https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Running_glibc_programs#Using_BusyBox_2 that bit
19:12 < fliedrice> Has anyone here suceeded in making a portable (USB) install of Ubuntu or Debian, with encryption? It seems like it's mission impossible in the Linux world.
19:13 < WhereIsMySpoon> those packages dont exist anymore so i used https://www.archlinux.org/packages/core/x86_64/lib32-glibc/ and https://www.archlinux.org/packages/community/x86_64/busybox/
19:13 < fbi> fliedrice: just do a normal install to the usb stick using luks
19:13 < jprjr> Oh well there you go, you're using a 32-bit glibc and a 64-bit busybox
19:13 < fbi> fliedrice: nothing magic required
19:13 < GunqqerFriithian> ah the bit problems :P
19:13 < WhereIsMySpoon> oh
19:13 < dive> WhereIsMySpoon, what is your $ARCH or uname -m, and ... what he said ^
19:13 < WhereIsMySpoon> alpine 3.7
19:14 < fliedrice> fbi: translate that to layman's terms
19:14 < WhereIsMySpoon> https://www.archlinux.org/packages/core/x86_64/glibc/ this is what i want
19:14 < WhereIsMySpoon> i assume
19:14 < fliedrice> I got a Ubuntu LTS ISO, a Windows computer, and a USB key. what do I do
19:14 < bls> fliedrice: putting it on USB changes nothing. it'll work just like it does on a normal drive
19:14 < GunqqerFriithian> ok imma try to fix it, brb
19:15 < WhereIsMySpoon> and i am on x86_64
19:15 < WhereIsMySpoon> to the uname question
19:15 < fliedrice> bls: I can't get the Ubuntu installer to install itself to the USB. It picks the laptop's mechanical drive.
19:15 < fliedrice> if I use entirely custom partitioning, then I don't see any mention of LUKS
19:16 < fliedrice> The LUKS option is if I let it select the laptop's drive
19:16 < bls> fliedrice: are you trying to install to the same USB drive you booted from?
19:16 < dunnousernamefn> Will bad things happen if I compile the kernel with -Ofast?
19:16 < fliedrice> bls: no, I got 2, one with the ISO, and another empty for installation
19:16 < fbi> fliedrice: just treat your usb stick as if it was a normal hdd
19:16 < fbi> you don't have to do anything special
19:17 < dive> WhereIsMySpoon, you can't run a 32bit glibc with 64bit host, unless you have multilib aka 32bit compat libs installed.
19:17 < dunnousernamefn> I'm convinced the kernel isn't too hard to compile, so I'm trying to prove to myself I'm wrong
19:17 < jprjr> WhereIsMySpoon: it's pretty easy to compile your own static busybox, that's what I do for chroots
19:17 < WhereIsMySpoon> dive: thats fine, ill use the 64 bit one
19:17 < WhereIsMySpoon> this one https://www.archlinux.org/packages/core/x86_64/glibc/
19:17 < fliedrice> fbi: the Ubuntu installer won't let me do that, AND use encryption. I'm not given the option. I can either let it wipe my whole laptop and use encryption, or create partitions myself but with no mention of encryption anywhere
19:17 < jprjr> One less thing to deal with that way
19:17 < fbi> dunnousernamefn: easy to compile the kernel, hard to get the kernel config right to make the result useable
19:17 < fbi> fliedrice: sure it does
19:17 < fbi> fliedrice: also, you can simply set up luks by hand and just point the installer at the container
19:17 < WhereIsMySpoon> jprjr: ill look into that if this doesnt work
19:18 < fbi> hell you could even bypass the installer and just use apt + a text editor
19:18 < fliedrice> fbi: I literally just did it. I actually have a non-encrypted install on my USB.
19:18 < fbi> anyway; tip; the gui installer < the curses one
19:18 < WhereIsMySpoon> im still getting chroot: can't execute '/bin/sh': No such file or directory :(
19:18 < fliedrice> how can I use LUKS by hand? just read the docs?
19:18 < WhereIsMySpoon> damnit
19:18 < dunnousernamefn> I'm still trying to clone it
19:18 < fliedrice> I have no idea what LUKS is, other than a Ubuntu installer option I'm not allowed to use
19:18 < WhereIsMySpoon> jprjr: you got some standard way you do it or shall i just google
19:19 < dive> WhereIsMySpoon, what does the 'file' command on /bin/sh output?
19:19 < WhereIsMySpoon>   /bin/sh: symbolic link to /bin/busybox
19:19 < dive> And on /bin/busybox?
19:19 < WhereIsMySpoon>    /bin/busybox: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib/ld-musl-x86_64.so.1, stripped
19:19 < dunnousernamefn> my computer is exploding trying to git clone
19:20 < fbi> file bin/busybox
19:20 < jprjr> WhereIsMySpoon: I keep tarballs of busybox + musl + gcc on github - the busybox is statically compiled, so you could just pull the busybox from there (ignore everything else in the tarball) https://github.com/just-containers/busybox-chroots/releases
19:20 < dive> hmm
19:20 < WhereIsMySpoon> dunnousernamefn: try to keep the depth to 1?
19:20 < dunnousernamefn> huh
19:20 < dunnousernamefn> it's deltas or something
19:20 < WhereIsMySpoon> dunnousernamefn: if you're cloning a lot of history you can set the depth to just one level so it doesnt grab everythinig in history
19:20 < WhereIsMySpoon> i forget the exact command
19:21 < WhereIsMySpoon> jprjr: cheers
19:21 < dunnousernamefn> oh wow, that's awesome
19:21 < dunnousernamefn> like, who wants to have hundreds of thousands of commits
19:21 < fliedrice> WhereIsMySpoon: --depth=1
19:21 < dunnousernamefn> thanks
19:21 < WhereIsMySpoon> thare ^
19:21 < fliedrice> git clone --depth=1 ...
19:21 < euxneks> there is a command to list all the kernel calls when you run a cli app, but I can't remember it
19:21 < fliedrice> strace?
19:22 < euxneks> it would either print to STDOUT or with -o ( you could also provide a flag to dump child process information too)
19:22 < euxneks> ahh !
19:22 < euxneks> that's it
19:22 < euxneks> fliedrice, thank you!
19:22 < fliedrice> yw
19:22 < dunnousernamefn> does strace slow down the program? that sounds fun
19:23 < WhereIsMySpoon> jprjr: which tarball do i want
19:23 < dunnousernamefn> I cloned the repo and it's still 1 gig. Is there really 1 gig of linux source code?
19:23 < WhereIsMySpoon> chroot-aarch64.tar.gz ?
19:24 < jprjr> WhereIsMySpoon: aarch64 is 64-bit arm, you probably don't want that. You want amd64
19:24 < fliedrice> dunnousernamefn: what if you also add branch=master (or whatever is the HEAD on the repo)
19:24 < WhereIsMySpoon> cheers
19:25 < dunnousernamefn> I already clonified it :P
19:25 < dunnousernamefn> `gitify clonify`
19:26 < fliedrice> 1GB so fast? lucky you
19:26 < fliedrice> easy there Joss Whedon
19:26 < dunnousernamefn> so sad, only have infiniband
19:26 < fliedrice> I get ~250KB/s here
19:26 < dunnousernamefn> obviously a time traveler from the past
19:26 < dunnousernamefn> :P
19:27 < dunnousernamefn> Do some sites not even load though?
19:27 < fliedrice> OTOH, while you losers are in some boring western city, I'm on a beautiful island in Thailand
19:27 < fliedrice> dunnousernamefn: with uBlock Origin, and blocking 3rd party scripts, everything loads fine :)
19:27 < bls> you're still on IRC, so...
19:27 < WhereIsMySpoon> jprjr: im assuming these busyboxes are linked with glibc and not musl? else this'll be pointless
19:27 < fliedrice> bls: of course. What do you expect me to do, go out and have fun?
19:27 < bls> this isn't fun?
19:28 < WhereIsMySpoon> :D
19:28 < jprjr> WhereIsMySpoon: They're statically linked. This is just to get a shell going in your chroot, you'll be able to download and try out glibc-linked packages
19:28 < WhereIsMySpoon> let me ask this differently
19:28 < fliedrice> I bet this is one of those things I'll remember on my deathbed and curse myself for
19:28 < WhereIsMySpoon> jprjr: how are your busyboxes different from the one i already have installed in my alpine linux
19:28 < dunnousernamefn> I wonder how small I can make the kernel
19:28 < jprjr> WhereIsMySpoon: I'm not sure if Alpine's are statically linked or dynamically linked so I don't know
19:29 < jprjr> WhereIsMySpoon: this busybox won't use your glibc *or* musl libc at all. Won't touch it.
19:30 < jprjr> WhereIsMySpoon: The idea is get the shell going, then start trying to setup glibc and binaries that are linked against it - but at least your /bin/sh will *always* work no matter what. That's the idea there
19:30 < WhereIsMySpoon> ah!
19:30 < WhereIsMySpoon> i see
19:30 < bls> why even use alpine if you don't want musl or busybox?
19:31 < bls> and why add mixing architectures on top of that?
19:31 < WhereIsMySpoon> because i want a small image?
19:31 < jprjr> I think he's just trying to setup a chroot to run glibc-linked apps on alpine
19:31 < gunqqerfriithian> yeah seems my computer is nice and borked
19:31 < WhereIsMySpoon> so my end goal is to get as small a docker image as possible with jdk10, maven, nodejs and npm on
19:31 < bls> I understand the what, trying to get to the why
19:32 < WhereIsMySpoon> there is no alpine image for jdk10 because it doesnt work with musl
19:32 < jprjr> I'm suggested to use a static busybox in the chroot so your /bin/sh will always work even when you mess up, which you probably will
19:32 < WhereIsMySpoon> using the oracle jdk10 image gives a 1gb image
19:32 < WhereIsMySpoon> which is shit
19:32 < jprjr> I just assumed it was like, for steam or something else where you can't recompile.
19:32 < bls> i.e. if everything you want to run requires glibc, why base it on musl and jump through all these hoops
19:33 < WhereIsMySpoon> is there another -small- distro that i can use that's glibc based?
19:33 < jprjr> WhereIsMySpoon: I think void linux is simiarly small and offers a glibc download
19:33 < WhereIsMySpoon> or does alpine use musl because it's much smaller than glibc
19:34 < WhereIsMySpoon> i might take a look at that if this doenst work then
19:34 < jprjr> WhereIsMySpoon: I guess one question is what defines "small" though? Like you could just install Arch without any kind of gui, I'd consider that small
19:34 < bls> or debian or centos
19:34 < WhereIsMySpoon> 300mb or so would be nice
19:34 < WhereIsMySpoon> total
19:34 < WhereIsMySpoon> with java/maven/node installed
19:34 < mgolisch> why do you need node if your app is java?
19:35 < WhereIsMySpoon> because my front end is using npm
19:35 < jprjr> Well with node I think that 300MB goes out the window when you install like, any package from NPM
19:35 < bls> and are these metrics just arbitrary?
19:35 < WhereIsMySpoon> before package installs, jprjr
19:35 < jprjr> NPM loves themselves some dependencies lol
19:35 < jprjr> (I'm just crapping on NPM)
19:35 < WhereIsMySpoon> bls: no, theyre based off similar sizes ive seen for similar images
19:35 < bls> that's pretty arbitrary
19:37 < mgolisch> odd, frontend is just static files no?
19:37 < mgolisch> why does it require npm
19:38 < fliedrice> mgolisch: many front-end apps use npm to get their dependencies (whether it's just bootstrap, or full-on frameworks like angular). People also use some build system (like gulp) to automatically reload modified files
19:38 < mgolisch> yeah but none of that has any place in your actual image
19:38 < fliedrice> and to convert their fancy-dan modern JAvascript to older Javascript that will run on old browsers
19:38 < mgolisch> its all buildtime stuff
19:38 < fliedrice> oh, sure
19:38 < WhereIsMySpoon> mgdelacroix: installing npm is not a build time thing
19:38 < mgolisch> its not?
19:39 < WhereIsMySpoon> no?
19:39 < bls> your app calls npm at runtime?
19:39 < WhereIsMySpoon> i see what youre getting at
19:39 < WhereIsMySpoon> this image is for ci
19:39 < WhereIsMySpoon> so it runs npm i and then npm run test
19:40 < mgolisch> oh so its for building your app
19:40 < mgolisch> i see makes sense
19:40 < WhereIsMySpoon> :)
19:40 < WhereIsMySpoon> sorry
19:42 < WhereIsMySpoon> jprjr: how do i get out of being chrooted
19:43 < WhereIsMySpoon> or anyone else :P
19:43 < bls> exit
19:43 < WhereIsMySpoon> lol
19:43 < WhereIsMySpoon> duh
19:43 < WhereIsMySpoon> sorry :P
19:45 < qwebirc25598> well I have deja-dup ready on my live USB, and now just need to get home and restore
19:48 < velix> Sorry for asking in here. I've got no clue where to ask else. Does anyone know a good project magement software? Is REDMINE still okay?
19:50 < WhereIsMySpoon> velix: that depends entirely on what you want. We use jira/atlassian tools. Maybe for you just trello would do
19:50 < velix> WhereIsMySpoon: Actually, for web-development with two guys, we want to set up a ToDo-list, set priorities and deadlines, insert bugs etc.
19:51 < velix> WhereIsMySpoon: right now ... we're using EXCEL :)
19:51 < WhereIsMySpoon> D:
19:51 < WhereIsMySpoon> at least use google sheets :P
19:51 < velix> This looks nice: https://opensource.com/sites/default/files/images/business-uploads/pm16-openproject.png
19:53 < widmo> velix: you could just use trello if it's a small project
19:54 < thadtheman> I'm scraping some web pages, and I'm looking for a good offline html beautifier.
19:54 < velix> widmo: really small
19:55 < velix> widmo: I'll try it
19:55 < widmo> oh, i see WhereIsMySpoon already recommended trello
19:55 < WhereIsMySpoon> jprjr: so I got your busybox, I also downloaded and unpacked that into my ~/chroot, downloaded java 10 openjdk and unpacked that into ~/chroot/opt/jdk, chrooted in and tried to run java, and it still says not found
19:55 < widmo> velix: It's nice and simple, I like it a lot for organizing tasks
19:55 < velix> WhereIsMySpoon: did you ever find it?
19:55 < WhereIsMySpoon> that === https://www.archlinux.org/packages/core/x86_64/glibc/
19:55 < WhereIsMySpoon> velix: find what
19:56 < velix> WhereIsMySpoon: ...
19:56 < velix> WhereIsMySpoon: your spoon!
19:56 < WhereIsMySpoon> velix: you're person number 8438293 to ask me
19:56 < WhereIsMySpoon> and nope
19:56 < WhereIsMySpoon> :p
19:56 < velix> widmo: hehe, I like the website, name: "Leroy Jethro Gibbs"
19:57 < WhereIsMySpoon> wait what
19:57 < WhereIsMySpoon> jprjr: file on /bin/busybox gives /bin/busybox: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib/ld-musl-x86_64.so.1, stripped
19:57 < WhereIsMySpoon> i feel like i've missed a step where i link your busybox to glibc instead of musl
19:58 < WhereIsMySpoon> wait nvm im in the wrong root
19:58 < Alexander-47u> hi all
19:59 < jim> hi
19:59 < WhereIsMySpoon> this is a fucking pain in the balls
20:00 < bls> the busybox you got was statically linked, you shouldn't have to worry about glibc or musl
20:00 < WhereIsMySpoon> yeah i was in the wrong root
20:01 < WhereIsMySpoon> was looking at the busybox in my container rather than the chrooted root
20:03 < dive> fbi, I got pulse to see my cards by mv'ing an .asoundrc that I was using. No luck with optical still though, and there's no control to switch between coax or optical.
20:03 < WhereIsMySpoon> what the crap
20:03 < WhereIsMySpoon> base/archlinux is 600meg
20:03 < bls> none of which you'd have to do if you used a glibc based distro
20:04 < WhereIsMySpoon> oh someone mentioned void linux earlier
20:04 < dive> I think I picked a duff card, or optical doesn't work in nix. Probably the former.
20:05 < jprjr> Yeah void offers a glibc version as well as a musl version
20:05 < dunnousernamefn> what's the oldest linux kernel version I can use where stuff still works
20:05 < jprjr> dunnousernamefn: depends on the stuff
20:06 < dunnousernamefn> like, let's say I just need it to boot to an 80x25 shell on a generic system
20:06 < dunnousernamefn> using something like the current version of bash
20:06 < dunnousernamefn> who cares if it overheats and explodes, etc.
20:07 < jprjr> No idea, I think you'd just have to experiment and find out
20:07 < dunnousernamefn> aww why does github not go back so far
20:07 < nchambers> i mean, it depends on the features you want
20:07 < SuperSeriousCat> Go by the age of hardware and see whats released around there
20:07 < jprjr> WhereIsMySpoon: when it comes ot building containers for CI I just try to maintain size in other ways.
20:08 < jprjr> Like I still use Ubuntu or Debian, but I try to be good about coming up with a base images and build new images off of that
20:08 < WhereIsMySpoon> even voidlinux is 214mb base
20:08 < fbi> dive: check the profile?
20:08 < dive> I checked everything.
20:08 < jprjr> So that even though I have a ton of images the total space used isn't a big deal since they're sharing docker layers or whatever
20:08 < WhereIsMySpoon> how the hell did the alpine people get theirs to like 4 meg
20:08 < dive> 3 or more times.
20:09 < dunnousernamefn> I have a <1MB ISO that is supposed to boot, using tinyconfig
20:09 < dunnousernamefn> but I need less, cuz why not
20:09 < jprjr> WhereIsMySpoon: busybox, basically. I think even void uses coreutils by default
20:09 < dive> fbi, according to the manual there's no switch for optical<->coax - they both work at once it seems.
20:09 < WhereIsMySpoon> jprjr: explain a little more?
20:09 < WhereIsMySpoon> if you dont mind :)
20:10 < jprjr> WhereIsMySpoon: your base set of programs like cat, dd, etc are usually provided by a package called coreutils, from GNU
20:10 < WhereIsMySpoon> right
20:10 < dunnousernamefn> why are there so many kernel.org it repos
20:10 < jprjr> WhereIsMySpoon: but they can also be provided by busybox. GNU Coreutils is focused on features and so on, busybox is focused on size
20:11 < jprjr> WhereIsMySpoon: Alpine's image is small (and I assume you're talking about their docker image) because it just includes busybox + apk and nothing else
20:11 < nchambers> all of the BSD's have their own coreutils too
20:11 < jprjr> WhereIsMySpoon: the other images almost always include more utilities, plus they're usually using coreutils, bash, etc. Bigger packages, and often more of them
20:11 < bls> and I could see size being an issue if you had legitimate requirements/constraints, but just picking and arbitrary number and using it to decide what's too big regardless of application or feature requirements is going to be tough to fulfil
20:12 < jprjr> WhereIsMySpoon: you could probably build a void linux image that's just busybox + xbps and get a similar size
20:13 < WhereIsMySpoon> i see
20:13 < jprjr> And yeah the reality is, most images blow up a bunch anyway as you start installing things so I wouldn't get that hung up on the base size
20:14 < jprjr> Especially if the purpose is CI/CD, where you're going ot have a lot of tools around. I only care about size for like, my final, distributable docker image for other people to run my apps in
20:14 < johnnyfive> Howdy! I'm investigating the useage of kernel version magic strings. What does this string signify, as in what underlying contract is being validated when these strings match between kernel and module. Is there some underlying memory mapping that this correlates to, or something else?
20:14 < jprjr> And even then I don't care that much
20:14 < Pentode> no disassemble!
20:15 < johnnyfive> Pentode, i r alive
20:16 < dive> johnnyfive, have you asked in #kernel?
20:16 < johnnyfive> dive, nope, but onward I go. Thanks!
20:16 < dive> It might even be ##kernel don't recall.
20:16 < johnnyfive> yea it redirected me to double hash
20:17 < dive> Two hash good, 4 hash bad.
20:23 < dunnousernamefn> woah, remember avr32 support? *grins*
20:34 < antranigv> can I use strace to trace all the ssl traffic in my host?
20:34 < antranigv> our developers forgot to write code to log and now I need to do live debugging :/
20:35 < ayecee> i don't think that would allow you to see the unencrypted contents
20:35 < Pentode> yeah you are in quite a pickle
20:36 < antranigv> damn
20:36 < WhereIsMySpoon> jprjr: ok i think im on my last legs here, but ive got your busybox, ive got glibc and ive got java all downloaded as tars/xzs and unpackaged into my folder im chrooted into. what do i need to do to get your busybox to run java using glibc
20:39 < Pentode> ugh. google, the king and cause of all necrobump.
20:39 < wizzi> how can i kick someone on the same wifi ?
20:39 < jprjr> WhereIsMySpoon: just run java/javac etc
20:40 < WhereIsMySpoon> jprjr: / # /opt/jdk/bin/java
20:40 < Pentode> wizzi, change your password.
20:40 < WhereIsMySpoon>   /bin/sh: /opt/jdk/bin/java: not found
20:40 < wizzi> Pentode everytime ?
20:40 < jprjr> Does arch symlink /lib into /usr/lib?
20:40 < jprjr> You might have to make that symlink within your chroot
20:40 < WhereIsMySpoon> im not using arch, im still using the alpine image
20:41 < jprjr> But your chroot is based on arch, isn't it?
20:41 < phogg> wizzi: there's no generic way to do that, especially not without being in control of the WAP
20:41 < WhereIsMySpoon> uh
20:41 < jprjr> Using the arch glibc package, arch java package, etc?
20:41 < Pentode> well you can explore the access points settings
20:41 < WhereIsMySpoon> im using the arch glibc package, and the openjdk jdk10 tarball
20:41 < WhereIsMySpoon> https://download.java.net/java/GA/jdk10/10.0.1/fb4372174a714e6b8c52526dc134031e/10/openjdk-10.0.1_linux-x64_bin.tar.gz
20:41 < jprjr> So jdk is probably looking at /lib/ld-linux-blahblahblah
20:42 < jprjr> for its dynamic linker
20:42 < jprjr> Does /lib exist in your chroot?
20:42 < phogg> wizzi: if your access point is your Linux box then you have some options, otherwise you need to first log in to the access point and then see what options it provides. Most have a web UI and some will allow that kind of thing.
20:42 < WhereIsMySpoon> ah, yes, but there's only one file there
20:42 < WhereIsMySpoon> ld-musl-x86_64.so.1
20:42 < wizzi> can i change DNS records to make a message to him ?
20:42 < WhereIsMySpoon> ill symlink /lib to ~/chroot/lib
20:42 < jprjr> And you're *sure* that's int he chroot and not on your host system?
20:42 < jprjr> and you don't want to do that, you want /lib to go to /usr/lib - but again, all in the chroot
20:43 < WhereIsMySpoon> yes jprjr
20:43 < WhereIsMySpoon> im in the chroot, triple sure :)
20:43 < jprjr> if you symlink /lib to ~/chroot/lib, it'll be linked to /home/(user)/chroot/lib
20:43 < WhereIsMySpoon> oh right
20:43 < jprjr> because symlinks don't know/care about their chrootness, they just store a path, basically
20:44 < WhereIsMySpoon> so jprjr `ln -s /lib ~/chroot/usr/lib` ? from my host system?
20:44 < jprjr> WhereIsMySpoon: No, you want ln -s /usr/lib ~/chroot/lib
20:45 < WhereIsMySpoon> oh
20:45 < wizzi> phogg can i re-map his internet requests ?
20:45 < jprjr> the ln destition is first, the symlink/file to actually make is second
20:45 < WhereIsMySpoon> uh
20:46 < WhereIsMySpoon> now i have /lib/lib in my chroot
20:46 < Pentode> wizzi, again. what is the access point? are you using a linux machine as a router? otherwise you are limited to the available options in your access points config server.
20:46 < WhereIsMySpoon> do i not want ln -s /usr/lib ~/chroot ?
20:47 < WhereIsMySpoon> wait no that wouldnt make sense
20:47 < wizzi> Pentode yes i'm using a linux
20:47 < jprjr> All this is based on whether or not arch symlinks /lib to /usr/lib which I'm still not really sure of
20:47 < jprjr> (I haven't checked)
20:48 < WhereIsMySpoon> jprjr: sure, but i dont think that ln command was right either
20:48 < WhereIsMySpoon> i have /lib/lib as a symlink now
20:48 < WhereIsMySpoon> in my chroot
20:48 < WhereIsMySpoon> jprjr: https://www.archlinux.org/news/the-lib-directory-becomes-a-symlink/
20:48 < WhereIsMySpoon> seems it does :)
20:49 < jprjr> I would rm ~/chroot/lib/lib and ~/chroot/lib, then ln -s /usr/lib ~/chroot/lib
20:49 < Pentode> wizzi, you could use iptables to block access via their MAC
20:50 < Pentode> they will be able to connect but they wont be able to send / receive traffic
20:50 < Pentode> im not sure of any other options, maybe someone else does.
20:51 < wizzi> Petode is there a tutorial for that "iptables" ?
20:51 < Pentode> https://www.google.com/search?ei=r88aW4PsLIyStQWg37SgDg&q=linux+router+blocking+access+by+mac&oq=linux+router+blocking+access+by+mac&gs_l=psy-ab.3...6124.6124.0.6738.1.1.0.0.0.0.183.183.0j1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.XJ1S4IMcuxk
20:51 < WhereIsMySpoon> jprjr: right, done, that worked, java still doesnt run though
20:52 < jprjr> WhereIsMySpoon: I'd probably just use a glibc-based distro for your container
20:52 < WhereIsMySpoon> yeah...
20:52 < Pentode> that first hit is _old_ but it looks like it will still be valid.
20:52 < WhereIsMySpoon> i might just go with the oracle jdk10 image and just have to live with the 1gb size
20:52 < WhereIsMySpoon> or maybe find some way to shrink it somewhat
20:52 < wizzi> Pentode okey, Thank you
20:52 < Pentode> course there could be some more as you look around
20:53 < Pentode> also reading up on iptables in general will get you going
20:53 < Pentode> networking is not my strong point, i've got a book with everything i need written down in it so i'm not the best person to walk you through it. ;)
20:54 < WhereIsMySpoon> jprjr: thank you for all the help anyway
20:54 < WhereIsMySpoon> you've been very patient
20:54 < kk_85> Hello
20:54 < Pentode> hi
20:54 < christner> Is this the place to ask netlink questions?
20:54 < jprjr> I got curious and wondered how alpine does it their images so small, it looks like they avoid installing locales on a lot of packages
20:55 < Pentode> netlink as in linux/netlink.h?
20:55 < kk_85> I am trying to learn about SSH-Agent. How does that work/What does that do?
20:55 < kk_85> user@-5CG5372W36:~/python/AWS$ eval `ssh-agent -s` Agent pid 924 user@-5CG5372W36:~/python/AWS$ echo  $SSH_AGENT_SOCK  user@-5CG5372W36:~/python/AWS$
20:56 < christner> Pretty new to the topic, but I think, yea. For creating netlink sockets and monitoring link information.
20:56 < kk_85> https://pastebin.com/ZmgaXnP3
20:56 < Pentode> christner, try one of the programming channels.
20:57 < christner> gotcha, thanks
20:57 < kk_85> I am wondering why SSH_AGENT_SOCK variable is empty after I ran the ssh-agent command
20:58 < kazdax> hello
20:59 < kazdax> how do i use sha1sum
20:59 < kazdax> to check my ISO
20:59 < kazdax> ?
20:59 < jprjr> kazdax: sha1sum /path/to/file.iso
20:59 < kazdax> i downloaded 2 DVD ISO of redhat linux
21:01 < kk_85> Anyone knows how ssh-agent works?
21:01 < mgolisch> yeah there this dude, think its name was man
21:01 < CustosLimen> kk_85, maybe better place to ask is #openssh
21:01 < kk_85> I will try that...
21:01 < CustosLimen> kk_85, but you will have to be more specific
21:01 < dunnousernamefn> can I take a program (compiled or source works), change the main(...) symbol name to something else, make that name global, and then link it with other programs?
21:01 < CustosLimen> kk_85, like the answer to that is yes
21:01 < justsomeguy> kazdax: You should read the redhat documentation on verifying your download. https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/7/html/installation_guide/chap-download-red-hat-enterprise-linux
21:02 < CustosLimen> kk_85, someone here knows how it works - but without the specific question it is tough to help
21:02 < Pentode> dunnousernamefn, that is basically how you link multiple .c files together for a single binary, yes.
21:02 < autopsy> A script I am running invokes sudo xrandr --output XWAYLAND1 --off but it fails saying invalid timeout value Is this normal for sudo? How do I run escalated commands in my script?
21:02 < jprjr> dunnousernamefn: with source, sure, but why?
21:02 < autopsy> Its to turn off the display.
21:03 < dunnousernamefn> I want to make a busybox-like program
21:03 < CustosLimen> dunnousernamefn, you don't even have to change main symbol - you can use dlopen
21:03 < jprjr> autopsy: I don't think you need sudo to run xrandr
21:03 < Pentode> gcc file1.c file2.c -o file ... file.h may contain prototypes and be included in one of either file1 or file, depending on where the entry point is.
21:03 < autopsy> jprjr, yes perhaps not what about /usr/bin/xscreensaver
21:03 < jprjr> dunnousernamefn: I think you just have to look at argv[0] and see how the program was called, then call the right function. Pretty much what busybox does IIRC
21:04 < Pentode> oh busybox eh.
21:04 < dunnousernamefn> that's essentially what I'm doing
21:04 < dunnousernamefn> but what if I have like 50 main functions
21:04 < dunnousernamefn> won't they conflict
21:04 < autopsy> Check argv[0] for names.
21:04 < kk_85> CustosLimen: This is what I am trying to solve. A bash script to save the passphrase for SSH connections https://pastebin.com/gg280aQJ
21:05 < jprjr> dunnousernamefn: well no you'd have 50 function named after the programs, and one main function that just calls the right thing based on argv[0]
21:05 < CustosLimen> kk_85, how about just not using a passphrase for the key?
21:05 < CustosLimen> kk_85, like if you are going to store it on the computer having a passprhase is not very useful
21:06 < dunnousernamefn> Would I have to rename the main symbol of each program?
21:06 < kk_85> The SSH key is already generated with passphrase, I can't change for security reasons
21:06 < jprjr> dunnousernamefn: the way busybox does it is all those programs on-disk are just symlinks to busybox, there's just one main symbol
21:07 < dunnousernamefn> yes, yes, ik, I mean when I'm compiling 'busybox'
21:07 < dunnousernamefn> and it compiles all the subprograms and links them
21:08 < jprjr> dunnousernamefn: the subprograms don't have a "main" symbol at all
21:08 < Pentode> dunnousernamefn, yes. each "program" becomes a function. then it's called via an argument to main.
21:08 < jprjr> dunnousernamefn: if you look at the busybox source, cat is a function named "cat_main"
21:08 < jprjr> So there's still just one main function that just calls argv[0]_main, basically
21:09 < autopsy> cat_main_dew.
21:09 < jprjr> Also I never clarified, in C, argv[0] is the name of the program you're currently running in
21:09 < autopsy> I should use Busybox on my machines.
21:10 < autopsy> argv[1] is a parameter option passed to the program.
21:10 < autopsy> Y ou parse it for switches like -h --version etc. Help.
21:10 < jprjr> So you have code like 'if strcmp(argv[0],"cat") == 0) { cat_main(argc, argv); }' basically
21:11 < dunnousernamefn> is cat_main renamed from main in the linker or the source?
21:11 < Pentode> in the source.
21:11 < dunnousernamefn> ah, okay
21:11 < jprjr> dunnousernamefn: it's not "renamed" because it was never named "main" in the source
21:11 < jprjr> dunnousernamefn: it was "cat_main" from the get-go
21:13 < Pentode> dunnousernamefn, it may be a good idea to get a little bit stronger foundation in c
21:13 < autopsy> Busybox is extra cool.
21:13 < Pentode> busybox is pretty snazzy
21:14 < Pentode> almost makes you want to "box" everything. but it's just not practical. ;p
21:14 < jprjr> Once compiled I don't think you can rename symbols
21:15 < jprjr> yeah, "boxing" only makes sense if there's a good amount of shared code, *and* you don't want it to be a shared library for whatever reason
21:16 < jprjr> Most of the time you're better off making a shared library and having programs that are basic front-ends to shared library functions
21:17 < Pentode> yeah
21:17 < Pentode> binutils is pretty much the perfect thing to get boxed
21:20 < justsomeguy> How does a c program request access to a shared library (*.so), anyways?
21:21 < widmo> justsomeguy: it maps it into it
21:21 < widmo> ...it's memory
21:22  * justsomeguy is trying to understand ld.so and ldconfig for a test, but doesn't know C. He should really just learn C.
21:23 < ciscon> justsomeguy: libdl
21:24 < justsomeguy> So, the linker is the think that's responsible for loading the file into memory and providing a memory address for the requesting program to grab the functions within it, right?
21:26 < justsomeguy> Oh. I found an article on dynamic loading. Looks like this will help me get oriented. Thanks for the hint, ciscon.
21:27 < ciscon> sure thing
21:27 < justsomeguy> :^)
21:28 < Pentode> everybody should learn C
21:29 < justsomeguy> It seems incredibly useful, and like a good way to learn about memory management and the various unix syscalls. It's definitely near the top of my to-do list.
21:29 < Pentode> as it should be. it's also the language pretty much all UNIX's are written in.
21:30 < Pentode> definitely my favorite language.
21:33 < justsomeguy> Is K&R still a good way to learn C? I noticed that the "hello, world" program wouldn't compile without adding a return statement and making the main loop an int. I've heard good things about "Modern C".
21:34  * justsomeguy has to acknowledge that he's just rambling at this point to distract himself from the things he needs to study.
21:34 < justsomeguy> I'll stop.
21:34 < widmo> justsomeguy: i'd recommend "c interfaces and implementations"
21:34 < jim> I'd say probably yes... one thing, you'll need to know what FSAs are (state machines) and to be able to build them
21:35 < justsomeguy> Thank you widmo, I'll take a look.
21:36 < lnnb> justsomeguy: what were your compiler options?
21:37 < justsomeguy> lnnb: None whatsoever. Just 'gcc hello_world.c' or 'cc hello_world.c'. I got it working eventually.
21:37 < lnnb> because gcc by default  will let you use void main() with no return, no idea what k&r example looks like though
21:39 < justsomeguy> it was simply "main() { printf('Hello, world!\n' }", I believe. I just mentioned it because it seemed like the fact that a hello world example needed additional online research to compile was an indication that the book was older and maybe not up to date.
21:40 < justsomeguy> Oops, I'm missing a closing paren and semicolon in my snippit there.
21:44 < lnnb> justsomeguy: compiles with only a warning if you remove the return type from main on my machine
21:45 < justsomeguy> lnnb: Weird. I must have been doing something wrong. Could also be becuase I was using the latest GCC on openSUSE Tumbleweed.
21:46 < Pentode> justsomeguy,  ' ' denotes a character, whereas " " is a string.
21:46 < Pentode> printf("Hello, World\n");
21:46 < justsomeguy> Oh, damn. Didn't know that.
21:47 < Pentode> if you dont want to return a value or have a return type: void main() { printf("Hello, World."); }
21:47 < Pentode> though it's recommended to at least return an integer of zero
21:47 < justsomeguy> Got it. :)
21:49 < Pentode> may seem a little tricky at first but once you get the hang of the basic syntax it's a breeze
21:50 < Pentode> a good thing to do is to build up a nice source tree with your programs as you learn how to do different things.
21:50 < Pentode> then you can use it for reference, too
21:53 < justsomeguy> Thanks for the advice. That's one of the things I've picked up while learning python. Definitely a good idea to save your solutions for future reuse.
21:53 < Pentode> anytime
21:53 < Pentode> man i _hate_ python ;)
21:54 < infinisil> I can agree with that
21:54 < justsomeguy> Haha, well at least it was easy to learn. It was my CS101 classes language.
21:54 < infinisil> Although I haven't used it much, so my opinion doesn't really count much
21:54 < aaron1> I hate Python packages
21:55 < Pentode> lol
21:56  * justsomeguy views perl, python, and javascript as differently flawed high level languages which are largely equivalent in their use case, and all have problems with distributing language packages.
21:56 < infinisil> I'm in love with statically typed languages, so python is really not up my alley
21:57 < justsomeguy> Are you a haskeller?
21:57 < eightyeights> I still use it a lot.
21:58 < justsomeguy> I'm just discovering statically typed languages. I like it so far. I want to try C, haskell, rust, ada, and AST.
21:58 < infinisil> justsomeguy: Yeah mostly
21:58 < justsomeguy> infinisil: Ha! I knew it!
21:58 < justsomeguy> :D
21:58 < infinisil> :P
21:59 < infinisil> Also, I want a reasonable type system in addition to static types
21:59 < infinisil> Java sucks at that, so I hate Java too
21:59 < infinisil> Swift, Rust, Haskell, that kind of stuff is my jam
21:59 < eset> does someone here have some experience with Google Cloud Platform Load Balancing ?
21:59 < Pentode> yeah i can't disagree. though interpreted lang's don't necessarily bother me.
22:00 < Pentode> but python is something special, lol
22:00 < infinisil> What do you not like about it?
22:00 < agent_white> Ruby, Lua, Perl I love. They feel like silly putty. I need to get more comfy with typed languages though.
22:01 < justsomeguy> Perl6 actually looks really, really fun.
22:02 < Pentode> i don't like using whitespace for indentation. and the structure is just friggin weird.
22:03 < Evidlo> Woah, is github down?
22:03 < Pentode> if i look at a small bit of python it's not immediately obvious what's going on and it can be so hard to tell sometimes
22:03 < justsomeguy> I like Haskells solution of using invisible curly braces and semicolons.
22:03 < johnnyfive> @Evidlo, works for me
22:03 < fbi> the structure is basically the same as in any other language
22:03 < Psi-Jack> Evidlo: No.
22:03 < ciscon> not mine
22:03 < fbi> except you don't have explicit {}
22:03 < eightyeights> @Pentode really?
22:04 < ciscon> ms is disabling it for random people, just to let everyone know who's in charge now.
22:04 < Pentode> and type safety
22:04 < Psi-Jack> eightyeights: IRC != twitter, slack, discord, etcv.
22:04 < Pentode> eightyeights, remember it's just my opinion.
22:04 < Evidlo> I guess whatever local server I'm using is down
22:04 < fbi> Pentode: define type safety in this context. python is strongly typed after all
22:04 < eightyeights> Psi-Jack Ah, I'm very new.
22:05 < eightyeights> Fair. I can barely read any language other than python
22:05 < Psi-Jack> eightyeights: partofnickname<tab>, will usually auto-complete for you properly.
22:05 < eightyeights> Psi-Jack: Cool!
22:05 < eightyeights> thanks
22:05 < Psi-Jack> but, if you start with @, it won't. :)
22:05 < johnnyfive> That's entirely dependant on your client, @Psi-Jack ;)
22:05 < infinisil> fbi: Huh? How is python strongly typed?
22:05 < infinisil> "Generally, a strongly typed language has stricter typing rules at compile time, which implies that errors and exceptions are more likely to happen during compilation. "
22:06 < koala_man> johnnyfive: yes, but name a client that doesn't support that
22:06 < jprjr> johnnyfive: what clients put the @ symbol in?
22:06 < ciscon> netcat
22:06 < Pentode> https://medium.com/@natemurthy/all-the-things-i-hate-about-python-5c5ff5fda95e
22:06 < Psi-Jack> jprjr: None./
22:06 < Pentode> this guy explains it better than i could
22:06 < fbi> infinisil: it is strongly, but dynamic typed
22:06 < fbi> infinisil: you can't just pretend that an int is an char, like in C
22:06 < Pentode> weak / dynamic -- same thing.
22:06 < Pentode> ;)
22:06 < johnnyfive> jprjr, I didn't say irc clients add the @, I said that some clients will autocomplete a name even if you start it with an @. HexChat does that
22:07 < OnceMe> how can I retrieve removed files on S4 phone?
22:07 < Pentode> i decided to learn python for fun one night because i thought gtk and c was a bit excessive in making up simple frameworks for something.
22:07 < ciscon> most clients ignore it, so it's acting the same as if you didn't put it there- that's all.
22:07 < infinisil> fbi: What is your definition of strongly typed?
22:07 < agent_white> Only thing I'm not a fan of in python is whitespace, and excessive 'self seflseflsefl' everywhere. :P
22:08 < infinisil> fbi: Nvm
22:08 < infinisil> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11328920/is-python-strongly-typed#11328980
22:08 < fbi> you can't "foo" + 3 and get "foo3"
22:08 < infinisil> Search engines ftw
22:09 < jprjr> I think Python The Language is cool, but Python The Tools get pretty frustrating.
22:09 < ldlework> like what?
22:10 < fbi> pip could need some work indeed
22:10 < justsomeguy> agent_white: There is a PEP that's becoming part of the language that gets rid of a lot of the "self"s littered everywhere.
22:10 < jprjr> Like people don't get environment variables, so they made virtualenv. Then there's virtualenv-wrapper for some reason. There's pip, there's also conda (from the Anaconda distribution of Python)
22:10 < fbi> and setuptools can get iritating at times
22:10  * lnnb avoids any lang with a built in "package manager"
22:10 < fbi> jprjr: that is not why virtualenv/venv was made
22:11 < dviola> in some ways I find ruby to be nicer than python as a language
22:11 < agent_white> justsomeguy: Oh really? I'll have to check it out.
22:11 < justsomeguy> agent_white: Have fun. It's in the "What's new" section of the python 3.7 documentation.
22:11 < jprjr> venv is for isolated python environments, which I argue can just be accomplished by knowing what environment variables you need to set
22:11 < fbi> jprjr: and virtualenv-wrapper exists because people want to "cd somedir" and have it magically "chroot" python
22:12 < fbi> jprjr: except it does more than that
22:12 < jprjr> Or alternatively, just get better at making libraries that don't break between releases
22:12 < fbi> no, just setting PYTHONPATH doesn't do it
22:12 < koala_man> fbi: you can 1 + 0.0 and have 1 automatically converted in a lossy way
22:12 < jprjr> I've always liked Lua because with LUA_PATH and LUA_CPATH I can make totally isolated lua environments ez-pz
22:12 < agent_white> justsomeguy: Cheers! Reading it now. Thank you.
22:12 < fbi> jprjr: eh, libs "breaks" between versions in all languages
22:13 < fbi> not many modules in <any language> have a completely stable api
22:13 < jprjr> At my last job I had to support research scientists that do stuff in Python and they were just really, really annoying. So that might have be a bit biased here
22:14 < fbi> a few sort of works around it by doing versioned apis, but it tend to get bad fast, and hurts the ability to develop it
22:14 < jprjr> Like guys that seemed to refuse to learn how to use pip/conda etc, had trouble with basic unix stuff, etc
22:14 < fbi> research people write horrible code and fail to use packaging tools for any language :p
22:16 < fbi> use the deployment tool of <language>?  nope, just ship plain files, or with some sh script that sudo mv .... stuff without checking if it is going to overwrite anything or not
22:16 < MarkusDBX> having trouble setting up the old xhost +192.168.0.10, and then export display from that host. on ubuntu 18.04, anything I should check?
22:16  * fbi have packages some scientific software for various distroes, and it has almost always been hell
22:16 < fbi> packaged*
22:17 < MarkusDBX> Just getting "cannot open display: 192.168.0.9:0.0"
22:17 < fbi> write new C code in 2016? better make sure that it will only compile with gcc 3.x
22:17 < Dagmar> Seems like you set the DISPLAY variable improperly
22:17 < fbi> prefix, DESTDIR, etc? don't need that
22:18 < Dagmar> Port zero isn't likely to work
22:18 < ciscon> that looks right, 0.0 is going to be your primary display.
22:18 < jprjr> My C code only works on Minix
22:18 < ciscon> MarkusDBX: try just xhost + to make sure it's not that
22:18 < fbi> not to mention hardcode calls to /home/someuser/some/random/binary in the code
22:19 < fbi> seen that multiple times >_>
22:19 < Dagmar> if the answer is "xhost +" the question was probably stupid and self-destructive
22:19 < fbi> or including .a/.h files from a similar place
22:19 < MarkusDBX> ciscon: tried that..
22:20 < JimmyNeutron> Anyone know what the netstat's Inode column represent?
22:20  * fbi has a sister that is doing a master in geology, and had to save her from herself a couple of times doing things like ^
22:20 < fbi> +too
22:20 < JimmyNeutron> It's seen when running "netstat -e"
22:20 < ciscon> MarkusDBX: have you told x to listen on all interfaces?
22:21 < jprjr> I had a master's student finish up their thesis and leave. Their boss came in with their *entire desktop computer* and asked me to back up their *master's thesis* from the machine
22:21 < ciscon> make sure -nolisten tcp isn't being set somewhere
22:21 < MarkusDBX> ciscon: I'm not sure, what is the best way to check?
22:21 < ciscon> i'd just grep /etc for nolisten real quick
22:21 < jprjr> I was floored, like, the student has no other copies besides what they turned in? Jesus.
22:21 < ciscon> and you can see if you're current running with it by ps aux|grep X
22:22 < fbi> ciscon: ps -C, pgrep
22:22 < ciscon> is there any particular reason you're not just doing this via x11 forwarding in ssh?
22:22 < alexandre9099> is it possible to list all iptables rules on every table?
22:22 < fbi> sure
22:22 < MarkusDBX> ciscon: seems like x11 is started with the nolisten flag
22:23 < mawk> no alexandre9099
22:23 < ciscon> fbi: pgrep would work but -C won't necessarily, depending on what's running (it certainly wouldn't on mine)
22:23 < mawk> do it table by table
22:23 < mawk> raw, mangle, raw, nat, security
22:23 < fbi> alexandre9099: if it wasn't there wouldn't been possible to store/restore rules
22:23 < MarkusDBX> /etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc says nolisten
22:23 < ciscon> yeah get rid of that
22:23 < alexandre9099> mawk, are there ony those tables?
22:23 < MarkusDBX> ciscon: I guess that is for default security?
22:23 < alexandre9099> *only
22:23 < ciscon> or just do this over ssh :P
22:23 < ciscon> yeah
22:23 < markasoftware> when launching Steam in a flatpak I get a complete system freeze-up (no tty switching allowed) maybe 1 in 2 or 3 launches
22:23 < mawk> without extensions yes alexandre9099
22:24 < markasoftware> only on my desktop system, which has a very similar setup to my laptop. both opnesuse tumbleweed
22:24 < fbi> -C works if you give it the correct argument :p
22:24 < fbi> markasoftware: anything in the logs?
22:24 < ciscon> right, but i don't know exactly what his x binary is called- so, grep for X :)
22:24 < jprjr> alexandre9099: I think mawk forgot the filter table
22:24 < markasoftware> well that's why I'm here, I guess. Where are the logs?
22:24 < mawk> yeah sorry
22:24 < mawk> the most important one
22:24 < alexandre9099> hmm maybe some flag to show all the tables?
22:25 < MarkusDBX> ciscon: will login/logout be enough to reset it?
22:25 < fbi> don't forget that you have to do v4 and v6 seperately
22:25 < markasoftware> i don't see any logs in /var/log related to it
22:25 < ciscon> no, restart x (restart your display manager)
22:25 < ciscon> but seriously, just use ssh for this, hehe
22:25 < alexandre9099> fbi, well, -C does not really show all tables :D it just searches based on a pattern
22:26 < markasoftware> and i should mention, launching Discord is fine. only steam
22:26 < fbi> can combine with a etc
22:26 < fbi> markasoftware: what hardware?
22:27 < fbi> also, I would test with non-flatpack steam
22:28 < markasoftware> fx-6300, gtx 670 with nouveau
22:30 < Psi-Jack> I don't think steam really supports, or recommends nouveau.
22:30 < markasoftware> well when it doesn't crashit works great
22:31 < markasoftware> so i have a hard time believing it's just a hard incompatibility problem
22:31 < Psi-Jack> Why.... Are you using nouveau?
22:31 < Psi-Jack> Believe it.
22:32 < MarkusDBX> ciscon: still no luck
22:32 < MarkusDBX> even rebooted that machine
22:32 < za1b1tsu> So I tried ubuntu gnome on macbookpro everything works, no hassle, but I want to try a tilling wm, is it possible to install specific services from gnome? Like the one that handles sleep, touchpad etc and run them in i3?
22:32 < markasoftware> are there any logs I can look at?
22:32 < ciscon> is it running without nolisten now?
22:32 < MarkusDBX> ciscon: I think so
22:32 < jprjr> The only reason to run nouveau is if you refuse to run any propietary software ever, so you'll settle for a crappy video card driver. But if you're running steam, you're running propietary software, ergo, no reason to use nouveau
22:32 < ciscon> look at the process again
22:32 < MarkusDBX> ciscon: darn it
22:32 < MarkusDBX> ciscon: it's using nolisten still.
22:33 < MarkusDBX> need to find the correct file I guess
22:33 < ciscon> are you using a display manager?
22:33 < twainwek> jprjr: how about you don't want to deal with unstable prop drivers crashing your system left and right
22:33 < MarkusDBX> ciscon: xfce? and lightdm
22:33 < MarkusDBX> ciscon: ah it's lightdm that sets it..
22:33 < ciscon> yeah it probably is.
22:33 < jprjr> twainwek: then you get an amd card that works well with the open-source drivers
22:33 < markasoftware> how do i view historical dmesg output?
22:34 < markasoftware> i see /var/log/messages and /var/log/syslog mentioned, neither exist on my system
22:34 < twainwek> hmm i didn't know amd cards have good os drivers
22:34 < Dagmar> Then that data is gone
22:34 < fbi> markasoftware: cat /proc/1/comm
22:35 < fbi> twainwek: they don't
22:35 < ciscon> they may be more open but that doesn't mean they are any good :)
22:35 < fbi> twainwek: usually takes 6-12 months from a card comes out until it is barely useable
22:35 < fbi> and are buggy as heck way after that
22:36 < twainwek> then we're back to using nouveau being a very legitimate decision
22:36 < fbi> soon 2.5 years and still no reliable hdmi audio out on my rx460.....
22:36 < ciscon> and so slow... so very slow
22:36 < ciscon> if you're playing games use the proprietary nvidia driver.
22:36 < fbi> nouveau doesn't even have 2d acceleration with many cards
22:37 < texla> Fedora 28>gnome classic..How to activate numlockx..bios has no entry..google help none working..Is this possible!!
22:37 < fbi> if you have some patience after new hardware releases then amd is useable with amdgpu
22:37 < fbi> forget about amdgpu-pro, it is catalyst 2.0
22:37 < MarkusDBX> ciscon: thanks!
22:37 < MarkusDBX> ciscon: now it works!
22:37 < MarkusDBX> ciscon: it was some confusion, these legacy things have changed alot
22:38 < MarkusDBX> config files not the same everywhere and so on
22:38 < MarkusDBX> google turning up lots of junk
22:38 < fbi> the 2xxxg apus are going to be decent when the gfx driver stops randomly crashing on them
22:38 < ciscon> yeah, it's all become overly complex- but again at least with this in particular, it's because everybody just uses ssh for x forwarding now
22:38  * fbi just uses vnc / spice when remote gui is needed
22:39 < fbi> avoids most of the headaches
22:39 < ciscon> x over ssh is fine, and avoids having to run an x server (even if it's just vnc) on the remote host
22:39 < ciscon> unless you want an entire de, in which case you're probably linuxing wrong anyway.
22:41 < almostdvs> run everything as windows exes in wine and push that over x forwarding through ncat
22:42 < almostdvs> as root
22:43 < jprjr> perfection
22:43 < infinisil> We're truly at the pinnacle of computing
22:46 < jprjr> Work blockchain and TempleOS into there and you'll get so much VC money
22:48 < MarkusDBX> ciscon: yeah this was just on very fast lan
22:49 < ciscon> yeah i mean i still do proper x over tcp for my older sun boxes, but if both sides can keep up with ssh just do it over ssh without compression turned on and it'll make your life that much easier :)
22:50 < Dagmar> Anything still deserving of electricty can probably the load of ssh encryption
22:51 < Dagmar> s/probably/probably handle/
22:51 < Dagmar> We're long past the days where a single ssh tunnel or mp3 stream playing can challenge a CPU
22:51 < ciscon> don't you denigrate my sparcclassic :)
22:52 < Dagmar> Your sparc classic should have been converted into an end table top long ago
22:52 < ciscon> it can be both
22:55 < lnnb> it still runs? how many hours you got on that thing?
22:56 < jalt> Hi, if I have a source directory (with subdirectories and files) and I copy it with cp -pr ./* I will preserve the attributes of not just the file, but also the parent folders. Is there a workaround where I can copy the whole tree but preserving only the attributes of the (leaf) files? That way, if any of the parent folders already exist at the destination, keep those attributes unchanged.
22:56 < ciscon> all of my old sun boxes still run- most of them were on continuously for decades
22:56 < jalt> The attribute I care about keeping on the parent folders is ownership, by the way.
22:57 < bls> why not make two passes, one for the directories and one for the files?
22:58 < koala_man> a friend of mine had a 486 in the bathroom. it could play mp3, but would glitch whenever you followed in link in Lynx
22:58 < autopsy> Why is this because of damn sudo? [autopsy@localhost liveuser]$ sudo -g liveuser -u liveuser -T64 --command=chown liveuser.liveuser /home/liveuser/ sudo: chown: invalid timeout value sudo: unable to initialize policy plugin
22:58 < jalt> even so, how can I copy just the folders while not changing the ownership of any existing ones?
22:59 < jalt> --no-preserve=ownership simple makes the whole tree owned by the user running the command (in this case root)
22:59 < bls> you wouldn't copy the directories, you'd recreate the tree using the attributes you wanted, then copy the files into the tree using different attributes
23:00 < ciscon> jalt: https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/unix-linux-bsdosx-copying-directory-structures-trees-rsync/
23:00 < jalt> bls: that is kinda the issue. i know the attributes that i want for the files, but not for the folders
23:00 < bls> if you don't know or care, then why is it an issue?
23:01 < ciscon> jalt: yeah, i think i'd just copy everything over, figure out what you want the permissions to be, and have a few find commands fix things the way you want them
23:01 < jalt> because the parents are /home/myuser /usr /etc /tmp which get their ownership changed
23:01 < Elladan> Re ssh performance above, with default settings your typical CPU these days actually can't handle SSH at full gigabit LAN speeds.
23:02 < bls> what difference does it make what the parent directories are?
23:02 < autopsy> They ionherit wbits from the parent.
23:02 < jalt> bls: you really don't want your $HOME owned by root
23:02 < ciscon> Elladan: aes accelerated stuff tends to be fine, i've not run into any bottlenecks on newer cpus
23:03 < bls> no you don't, so don't change the permissions on it
23:03 < Elladan> ciscon, if you have it use a full AES hash mode like aes256-gcm, it will, but not using the default settings.
23:03 < jalt> bls: that is what i would like to know how to do: copy the files without changing the parent folders' attributes
23:04 < autopsy> I think rsync can do that.
23:04 < jalt> autopsy, no, it's the same issue
23:04 < autopsy> What about tar?
23:05 < bls> both cp and rsync have options to preserve permissions
23:05 < bls> as does tar
23:05 < autopsy> So why don't you use tar and cp?
23:05 < jalt> the source and destination are on different machines, so I cannot truly preserve permissions per se. what i do is scp then manually chown the files. i am trying to avoid having to chown the entire folder structure.
23:06 < jalt> bls: cp -rp will preserve the permissions on the files (which I want) but will also preserve them on the parent folders (which I do not want)
23:06 < bls> you shouldn't have to do either if you use rsync or transfer a tar file
23:07 < Elladan> ciscon, the problem is that by default it uses a software computed MAC. I got about 70 MB/s max using some late-model x86 CPUs, with the crypto taking up an entire core.
23:07 < jalt> how can you preserve attributes across different machines/OS/arch/filesystem?
23:08 < bls> rsync -a will do that
23:08 < ciscon> Elladan: by default i think most things use chacha now, which certainly isn't as fast has hardware accelerated aes (on hardware that supports that), but i've never seen it not be able to do 120MB/s+ (on modern systems)
23:09 < ciscon> but i definitely get your point, if you care you're going to go change that anyway :)
23:09 < jalt> if machine a has files owned by user alice and machine b only has user bob, it's not possible to copy from a to b keeping ownership
23:09 < jalt> or from windows/ntfs to linux/ext4 etc
23:09 < bls> yes it is
23:09 < ciscon> jalt: they just copy by uid/gid, so it's all to do with that mapping on each box
23:09 < eset> does someone familiar with GCP load balancers ?
23:09 < bls> oh, this is NTFS?
23:10 < jalt> the source can be
23:10 < ciscon> (and with things like tar you can get a bit more advanced as to how that resolves into and out of the tar when doing it)
23:10 < ciscon> if you're talking about a proper unix filesystem just always tar it up so you preserve permissions properly
23:10 < bls> I have no clue how NTFS permissions are handled when copying files to another machine
23:10 < jalt> maybe i should have clarified what i am doing: copy from a machine (let's say windows) files to the target machine, on a temporary directory, say $HOME/sourceroot
23:11 < jalt> then i chown and chmod the files manually. then i cp $HOME/myroot to /
23:11 < ciscon> you really don't want to do that hehe
23:11 < ciscon> if you're storing a unix filesystem on ntfs, tar it up first
23:12 < ciscon> unless you really feel like spending all day fixing it
23:12 < Elladan> ciscon, yeah for the general point SSH is absolutely fast enough for general use, but it's worth keeping in mind that you need to do some cipher tweaking if you expect it to have minimal CPU load.
23:12 < jalt> no, i have normal files on the source (attribute less if you want). which is why i am ok with manually setting them once they reach the target. but i would rather not have to do that for the folders as well
23:12 < Elladan> ciscon, like i.e. if you want to use sshfs as a high speed NAS protocol.
23:12 < ciscon> Elladan: yupyup
23:13 < ciscon> Elladan: yeah, which i do (though over wan) - one really does need to deep dive into the hardware and algorithm settings on either side to optimize it
23:14 < ciscon> jalt: if they were stored directly on ntfs, chances are everything is wrong including directory ownership/permissions, you're going to need to fix everything
23:14 < Loshki> If you move files belonging to Alice to a machine where only Bob exists, it will use the numerical uid/gid when you do the extraction. If Alice's uid/gid is the same as Bob's, Bob will appear to be the new owner.
23:15 < Elladan> ciscon, yeah. I've seen some bad advice from people online, i.e. not understanding that they need gcm mode or similar to fully utilize their hardware accelerator, or suggesting that chacha+poly1305 is faster based on comparing the software implementations.
23:15 < jalt> ciscon: see, the parents will already exist (/home /etc /usr), so i should not need to fix them: i should be able to simply the files (whose attributes are already fixed) without changing the folders
23:15 < jalt> Loshki: which is why i need to manually fix them. that is ok. i'm simply trying to figure out if i absolutely need to also do the same to the folders.
23:16 < oiaohm> Elladan:  https://www.scottbrownconsulting.com/2011/10/a-look-at-the-performance-impact-of-hardware-accelerated-aes/  The intel cpu AES hardware acceleration is able to be fast enough for 1Gbs networking.   But you have to have software that uses it.
23:16 < ciscon> Elladan: i totally believe that, they don't always get that just seeing "aes" in the cipher name doesn't mean it's using hardware acceleration and are then comparing software aes against software chacha (or blowfish, or whatever)
23:17 < Loshki> Elladan: so are you estimating performance based on software inspection? That seems backwards.
23:17 < gunqqerfriithian> I'm back. Currently waiting on deja-dup to restore my /home
23:17 < Elladan> ciscon, yeah or in the case of SSH not understanding that the MAC selection is separate.
23:17 < ciscon> yeah
23:17 < gunqqerfriithian> It is not going to be fun reinstalling everything though
23:18 < ciscon> oiaohm: that's well beyond 1gb/s btw, that's 1GB/s :)
23:18 < ciscon> jalt: is there some way you can just do this backup again but properly, and then restore from that?
23:19 < gunqqerfriithian> I love file sizes measured in Bytes while network speed is in bits
23:19 < ciscon> it would make your life that much easier heh
23:19 < Elladan> Heh yeah, 1 GB/s is more like 10 Gbit :-)
23:19 < ciscon> :)
23:19 < jalt> it's not a backup per se. it's a deployment script. basically installs packages and then copies over templates configs (and some non-configs)
23:20 < gunqqerfriithian> what do you guys use to create an image of your entire drive that is bootable?
23:20 < gunqqerfriithian> software wise
23:20 < ciscon> can you recreate the environment then?  i do something similar for our software (our deployment is a chroot), but the source is always a tar of the chroot
23:20 < Dagmar> MondoRescue
23:20 < ciscon> dd
23:20 < jalt> again, i know exactly the attributes of the files and their precise location on the tree, and i can do the same for each directory level of the tree, but would like to avoid it if possible
23:20 < oiaohm> ciscon  Elladan pPease note that is with something design to really use hardware acceleration.     https://turecki.net/content/getting-most-out-ssh-hardware-acceleration-tuning-aes-ni  << when you come back openssl and ssh things go into fail.
23:20 < gunqqerfriithian> oh jesus. I relized im transfering ~250GB over usb 2.0
23:21 < oiaohm> ciscon: Elladan but still 370.37 MB/s should be fast enough for 1Gbs
23:21 < ciscon> 120MB/s is about right
23:22 < jalt> most of the files are templated, so they are customized via sed and other shenanigans. it's not practical to make a pristine image using tar.
23:22 < jalt> i just feel that there must be a way to copy files preserving their paths but without changing the ownership of said paths
23:22 < Elladan> oiaohm, indeed, that's what I said above.
23:23 < Elladan> The benchmarks noted in that link are misleading because it appears to be listing the cipher+mac performance and calling it the cipher performance, BTW.
23:24 < ciscon> jalt: i do that as well, after the chroot is created- you have a directory structure that is essentially a chroot correct?  i'm just saying, store that in a tar file instead of directly on ntfs and you won't have any problems
23:24 < Elladan> ... which of course is why aes256-gcm is so fast: it's because in gcm mode, the AES-NI accelerated cipher is used to compute the MAC as well.
23:24 < jalt> yes, not a real chroot but same purpose
23:24 < jeffree> ok, looks like it's probably my nvme drive causing my problems
23:24 < jeffree> is it safe to have the drive mounted ro?
23:25 < autopsy> jeffree: still with the NVME?
23:25 < jeffree> autopsy: not sure what you mean. I am booted from a live disk now
23:25 < bls> you're not going to get come up with a single command that will copy a directory hierarchy off NTFS onto a linux box that preserves some permissions and ignores others. at the very least it's going to be a 2 pass operation
23:26 < autopsy> bls righto.
23:28 < autopsy> cp -Ri / /home/backup/ ; tar -cf linux-root-files.tar {/dev,/proc,/sys,/home,/usr,/sbin,/bin,/etc,/mnt}
23:29 < gunqqerfriithian> I should have backed up all manually installed packages I had :|
23:29 < gunqqerfriithian> or the list ofthem
23:29 < autopsy> That is how they did LiveCDs back in Fedora 11 with kadischi. It was a tarred up root filesystem that got untarred in tmpfs. Then --bind mounted to /proc and /dev.
23:29 < jalt> bls: i'm not explaining myself properly. the source ntfs machine (doesn´t necessarily need to be ntfs anyway) only has pseudo-files (templates, scripts, etc) and they are copied to the target machine, onto a pseudo-chroot. there, they are edited and "assembled" properly, into the correct directory strucuture, but with default attributes (whatver user the script runs as). therefore, the script itself has logic to fix all the attributes of every individual file. on
23:30 < aerozoic> Why does rolling the scroll wheel while looking at task manager cause CPU usage to increase 3 or 4 times idle?
23:31 < autopsy> aerozoic: what task manager? Resource Manager?
23:31 < hexnewbie> aerozoic: 3 or 4 times sounds too little, but that depends on what you're scrolling over, and what the CPU usage is
23:31 < Psi-Jack> aerozoic: Because? It has a lot of updates to show?
23:31 < aerozoic> It's called "task manager" in Xubuntu
23:31 < jalt> i can add more logic to manually fix each folder and subfolder, but since most already exist with the right permissions, i thought that there would be way to copy the files without changing the attributes of the folders along the path
23:32 < autopsy> jalt: I would use tar and rsync.
23:32 < aerozoic> It jumps to between 30-35%. Just scrolling back and forth looking at the tasks.
23:32 < jalt> i can't use tar because the source does not have the proper files. they are procedurally generated.
23:32 < Elladan> aerozoic, the answer to pretty much any question regarding a GUI and CPU usage spikes pretty much always ends up being, "because GUIs are complicated and buggy"
23:33 < autopsy> andrea
23:33 < aerozoic> It's not a spike though. It stays at above 30% until i stop scrolling.
23:33 < Elladan> aerozoic, the specific reason could be any number of things, you'd need to dig into it with some debugging tools to find out.
23:33 < jalt> rsync will do the same thing as cp: either preserves all the attributes of both files and folders or does not preserve any meaning that the files and folders' ownership becomes that of the user running the script (root) which is unacceptable
23:34 < slondr> Anyone know a quick way to purge all KDE settings/configuration from the command line?
23:34 < autopsy> aerozoic: maybe it's trying to locate the pointer on the screen.
23:34 < aerozoic> Are you saying it's not normal for such high usage just looking at the task manager?
23:34 < Psi-Jack> aerozoic: Yep. It's having to redraw all the time.
23:34 < autopsy> slondr: dnf remove kde\*
23:34 < Psi-Jack> Anyway, time for home. :)
23:35 < slondr> autopsy I'm not on a DNF based system and I don't want to uninstall KDE, just revert configs to what they were when installed
23:35 < autopsy> See ya!
23:35 < autopsy> slondr: oh what are you on Alpine? Slackware?
23:35 < slondr> arch
23:35 < autopsy> Arch. Smart.
23:35 < Elladan> aerozoic, I'm saying that someone writing a GUI program like the task manager will produce a program that has weirdly high CPU usage unless they do it very carefully and optimize it. High CPU usage is basically the norm, making the program not do that takes a lot of effort.
23:35 < hexnewbie> aerozoic: Back in the day scrolling used to stop your music because the PCI bus couldn't handle both the video (redraws) and the music. Redrawing has gotten more expensive in some ways, even if PCs have gone faster. And it still uses CPU, especially if complex layouts are involved. And modern toolkits are insane (albeit I recently discovered that scrolling on Qt 3 is worse than on 4/5 or GTK+ 2 and 3)
23:36 < aerozoic> HAHA, ok thanks for the info :)
23:36 < Elladan> aerozoic, the specific reason that program or any other has high CPU usage in any particular case can't really be determined without debugging / profiling.
23:36 < autopsy> oprofile
23:36 < autopsy> On Fedora
23:37 < autopsy> You could use gdb?
23:37 < aerozoic> Elladan, i see what you mean, although i was looking for a more generalized answer, which i think i got, so thanks again :)
23:39 < autopsy> Lots of quitters ping timeout.
23:40 < autopsy> I can't supress the join/quit messages in Freenode's webchat I think.
23:40 < krytarik> autopsy: You actually can.
23:43 < za1b1tsu> Any recomandation for a portable linux distro with lxqt and easy persistance setup?
23:44 < ciscon> you want persistence as a separate partition?
23:44 < bls> za1b1tsu: distrowatch.com
23:46 < za1b1tsu> ciscon: on usb
23:46 < bls> why not just install directly to and boot off usb then?
23:47 < ciscon> yeah, that's what i'd do unless you have a reason not to
23:47 < ciscon> i'd make /var/log and /tmp tmpfs to keep the writes down, but other than that it should work fine
23:48 < bls> the whole live distro with persistence made sense when read-only media like CDs or DVDs was our best bet for booting something. doesn't make much sense now
23:49 < ciscon> i mean, it makes some sense, but only for very specific things (like you don't want any user to be able to touch any of the stuff on there other than on the persistent partition)
23:50 < ciscon> and you can trade cpu for io by compressing it (though you can do that by using a compressable rw fs as well)
23:50 < ciscon> but if you're actually going to "use" it, yeah, no point anymore
23:51 < za1b1tsu> ciscon: reading about this option. You think it will boot on a mbprp?
23:51 < za1b1tsu> *mbpro?
23:52 < ciscon> i don't know for sure how screwy apple's efi is now, i should think it would boot either an efi/legacy usb device though- it's not as tricky as trying to dualboot on them
23:53 < ciscon> if you can boot an installer off of a usb stick, there's no reason the installed os wouldn't boot as well :)
23:56 < jgkamat> I have two laptops, on one of them, linux throttles my CPU at 100c to prevent overheating (from logs in dmesg). On the other one, there's a hardware switch which powers down the entire computer at 100c. Is there a way to lower the "max temperature" to 95c or so I don't hit the limit on the second laptop?
23:57 < koala_man> jgkamat: does that not already happen?
23:58 < jgkamat> koala_man: it does happen (I'm guessing), but there's some hw switch which powers off the computer before it gets to that point
23:58 < bls> I've booted linux USBs on a 2015 macbook pro
23:58 < ciscon> thermald may do what you want, i'm not sure though, i usually do the opposite and disable all the sensors/alerting/throttling if i can
23:59 < ciscon> https://wiki.debian.org/thermald
23:59 < jgkamat> hmm, both of my laptops don't have thermald, but I'll give it a shot on the problem one
23:59 < jgkamat> (I was hoping just to use the built-in support :P)
--- Log closed Sat Jun 09 00:00:19 2018