--- Log opened Fri Jun 22 00:00:08 2018
00:00 < syb0rg> I'd hate to be the senior admin making $0
00:00 < Isky> lnnb: roughly $75k/yr in a place with a median income of $37k.
00:00 < syb0rg> but I would be cool with $infinity
00:01 < Isky> I dunno.. if it was $infinity, then I'd want a lot more vacation time to spend it. :P
00:01 < syb0rg> but you would only need to work for any finite amount of time to be infinitely rich, then you could just retire!
00:02 < Isky> I kind of assumed with $infinity, I had to stay working, or all the money would go away. Hmm
00:02 < syb0rg> that sounds more like a really luxurious version of slavery
00:03 < bls> you mean you don't just get paid to be awesome?
00:03 < Isky> syb0rg: I'd sign up for it, I think... with enough vacation time.
00:05 < Isky> so.. same cobol app on another server that does the same thing for an older system.. doesn't matter if I'm in an NFS mounted directory or local. It works.
00:05 < rascul> i get paid to be awesome
00:05 < lnnb> Isky: uninterruptible sleep state?
00:06 < Isky> lnnb: I can ctrl-c and kill it.
00:07 < Isky> It shows running in ps the whole time, but if I use strace, it hits a certain point (opens a file it's reading) and hangs. The file can be read.
00:09 < bls> is nfslockd an issue on that server?
00:10 < Isky> Not that I know of..
00:10 < bls> or did someone do something weird to portmap's port ranges
00:10 < Isky> now THAT is entirely possible
00:10 < Isky> It's an OCI instance, and .. OCI makes me want to stab things. (oracle cloud infrastructure)
00:11 < bls> although portmap issues would show up on everything, file locking would be limited to just programs trying to use it
00:11 < Isky> ohh. nfslockd isn't running
00:11 < Isky> or it's not a separate service in OL7. I'm not sure.
00:14 < Isky> ah. It's just nfslock, and it's running without errors.
00:19 < Isky> and, as far as I can tell, I can run everything else from those directories.. another piece of note, the app itself is not in the directory.
00:40 < Thedarkb> You'd think given the number of people in this channel that it would be more active.
00:40 < bls> I'd say 3/4 of the clients connected here are abandoned bouncers/bots
00:40 < azarus> is there a channel for troff typesetting?
00:41 < azarus> (or nroff, whatever)
00:41 < bls> azarus: ask the channel list bot: /msg alis list yoursearchtermhere
00:41 < azarus> bls: nothing
00:41 < azarus> that's why I'm asking ;)
00:41 < bls> but I really doubt anyone cares about troff enough anymore to hang out in a channel and discuss it
00:42 < azarus> aww, oh well
00:45 < bls> and any time I need to create a document and don't have latex installed, I just use mom templates
00:46 < Isky> I use sharelatex.com if I don't have it installed.
00:46 < Isky> or often if I do. :P
00:58 < ALowther_> How do I remove a service from systemctl so that it does not show up anymore?
01:00 < bls> you could uninstall it
01:01 < Chris_A> ALowther_, systemctl disable <service name>
01:01 < bls> it'll still be listable if you disable it
01:01 < Aph3x-WL> it sounds like he wants it hidden instead of disabled
01:01 < Aph3x-WL> probably for spyware
01:02 < ALowther_> Yeah, I already tried to disable
01:03 < bls> what are you really trying to accomplish?
01:03 < ALowther_> More specifically, I enabled an openvpn service to run as a daemon to connect to a config, but I misspelled it. So now I have two, one with a slight misspelling, which interferes with my auto complete :)
01:04 < ALowther_> openvpn@my-vpn-connection.service && openvpn@my-vpn-connecyion.service
01:05 < bls> ah, then you should be able to find and delete a file in /etc/systemd/system
01:05 < bls> I believe it'll be a symlink to the openvpn servic
01:06 < ALowther_> Hmmmm
01:09 < ALowther_> Idk, I don't see anything obvious in there.
01:09 < bls> find /etc/systemd -name 'openvpn@my-vpn-connecyion.service' turns up nothing?
01:11 < ALowther_> bls: Yes, it did :). Thank you.
01:11 < ALowther_> I can just delete that directly?
01:11 < ALowther_> Do I need to worry about symlinks or anything?
01:12 < bls> it's been a while since I dealt with this, but is the file a symlink to openvpn.service?
01:13 < bls> there's probably a systemctl sub-command to properly do it, but I still can't remember them all
01:14 < ALowther_> bls: Hmmmm, idk :(. But I found where it's located. I'll google around. Thanks for the help finding it :)
01:17 < JacobsLadd3r> I have 'gather_stats & read -t 60' in a loop in bash and it works. As a SystemD service it fails, if I use 'sleep 60' instead of 'read -t 60' the SystemD service works. I'd prefer not to fork off another 'sleep' pid instead of 'read' being a builtin, anyway to get systemd to fake a TTY or whatever read is looking for?
01:20 < bls> why is using the correct tool instead of abusing the wrong one such a big deal?
01:22 < Loshki> More art in abusing the wrong one for some people.
01:25 < bls> if you're worried about your fork() call getting worn out, you can write your own sleep function
01:27 < JacobsLadd3r> yeah I was just hoping for an easy flag or something on read since it's already builtin. Thanks for that.
01:37 < bls> s() { local d="${1}";local s="${SECONDS}";while [[ $((SECONDS-s)) -lt "${d}" ]];do :;done }  # gross...but no forks!
01:41 < JacobsLadd3r> cool thanks, there is no fork, or spoon
01:42 < ryouma> i try to unmount a partition and it says "umount: /media/samsung-root: target is busy".  "fuser /media/samsung-root" says nothing.  "lsof | grep samsung" says nothing.  "ps -efH | cat" does not show anything likely.  why is it busy?  this occurs with all of my partitions.  linux 3.16.
01:43 < bls> also highly inefficient use of CPU time since there's nothing calling yield
01:43 < bls> ryouma: are there any processes that have that directory hierarchy as their CWD?
01:45 < ryouma> bls: i never understood why having a shell cd'ed to a mountpoint makes it busy.  why isn't it just a variable?  but no, i don't have those.  however:
01:45 < bls> for pid in /proc/[0-9]*;do sudo readlink -e $pid/cwd;done | sort | uniq
01:45 < ryouma> with mount i get "/dev/mapper/toshiba-root on /media/toshiba-root type ext4 (rw,relatime,data=ordered)" and "sysfs on /media/toshiba-root/sys type sysfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime)" and "fusectl on /media/toshiba-root/sys/fs/fuse/connections type fusectl (rw,relatime)"
01:45 < ryouma> (toshiba is the partition i am trying to unmount now)
01:46 < bls> ryouma: because most processes (i.e. not shells) don't like having their working directory ripped out from under them
01:46 < ryouma> clever.  nothing htgere in the mountpoint.
01:47 < mgolisch> is that a lvm?
01:47 < ryouma> no, luks
01:47 < ryouma> i am unmounting the plaintext and then i will close the device mapper
01:47 < mgolisch> but yeah shouldnt matter
01:48 < ryouma> the sysfs is probably a remnant of doing a chroot to install grub
01:48 < ryouma> but i properly unmounted it (or tried to)
01:48 < ryouma> the fusectl is mysterious
01:48 < mgolisch> oh yeah thats why
01:48 < mgolisch> unmount those first
01:49 < ryouma> so it's probably all due to the chroot.  i will find my code.  but i think i do it correctly.
01:49 < mgolisch> you probably run a recursive bind mount on it
01:49 < mgolisch> just umount those two filesystems first it should work then
01:50 < ryouma> i do    for dir in /dev /proc /sys; do; umount $mountedroot$dir; done
01:50 < ryouma> i do a bind mount, but dunno why you say recursive
01:50 < ryouma> why does my command above not unmount sysfs?
01:50 < bls> hmm, yeah, don't know what proc reports for cwd in the event of a chroot or bind mount
01:51 < mgolisch> because there this fuse thing mounted under it
01:52 < ryouma> the root problem seems to be "umount: /media/toshiba-root/sys: target is busy"
01:52 < ryouma> why is it busy?  why is fuse anywhere?  i didn't do anything that requires fuse?  i ahve a comment that says this is the fault of systemd but idk why.
01:53 < mgolisch> because /media/toshiba-root/sys/fs/fuse/connections is mounted on it
01:55 < ryouma> ok.  but i never mounted it.  i only bind mounted /sys.
01:55 < mgolisch> sure you didnt run mount --rbind /sys /blah/sys?
01:55 < ryouma> yes, it is --bind
01:55 < ryouma> (this is a script)
01:56 < ryouma> dunno what rbind is
01:56 < mgolisch> maybe whatever you ran after that mounted that itself or so
01:56 < ryouma> maybe i should umount using umount --recursive?
01:56 < mgolisch> it mounts stuff recurivesly
01:56 < mgolisch> yeah umount -R
01:56 < mgolisch> or just umount the damn things already
01:56 < ryouma> mgolisch: well, all i ran was grub-update and grub-isntall and mkinitramfs or whatever
01:56 < mgolisch> told you like minutes ago
01:57 < ryouma> you told me to do that?
01:59 < ryouma> in any case umount --recursive $mountedroot$dir seems to be the solution.  hope it doesn't screw up systemd or whatever command did the mounting
01:59 < ryouma> mgolisch: bls thanks
02:00 < mgolisch> np
02:00 < MrChinasky> test
02:00 < ryouma> /should/ i use mount --rbind when i create dev sys proc on the chroot?
02:03 < kerframil> ryouma: typically, yes. proc can be mounted directly (-t proc).
02:04 < MrChinasky> :q
02:04 < MrChinasky> lol
02:05 < ryouma> not sure i understand.  is it wrong to, when creating a chroot, to do what i do?  i do for dir in /dev /proc /sys do mount --bind $dir $mountedroot$dir done (with appropriate newlines)
02:06 < ryouma> oh you are saying i should use --rbind instead of --bind there
02:06 < spare>  /dev normally has /dev/shm and /dev/pts as additional mounts using --rbind is quicker than needing to remount them as well
02:06 < ryouma> and saying btw i can use -t proc but don'thave to
02:07 < ryouma> spare: ok so i will change to --rbind in my chroot
02:07 < kerframil> ryouma: the optimal approach is mentioned in gentoo's documentation, which you may use as a reference (scroll down to Configuration): https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Chroot
02:07 < Mibix> I just used gparted to repartition a drive to ext4 from ntfs and now i lost a bunch of space like .3tb at least
02:08 < spare>  --rbind for dev and -t proc -t sysfs normally lfs has a script to use mknod to create a minimal dev if you dont need access to anything
02:08 < kerframil> ryouma: warning, --make-rslave is very important if you're using systemd. otherwise, unmounting from inside the chroot could also unmount the mount point from which it was bound.
02:08 < ryouma> this is getting complex
02:10 < ryouma> kerframil: interesting.  so instead of my loop i do all of those.  will this work on debian?
02:10 < kerframil> it's not about using a loop or not using a loop, as long as the procedure is proper
02:11 < kerframil> yes, it will work anywhere
02:11 < kerframil> assuming a GNU userspace
02:13 < ryouma> i presume debian by default is a gnu userspace
02:13 < kerframil> yes
02:14 < kerframil> I should really say, as long as your mount command is provided by util-linux (which it will be)
02:14 < ryouma> this is not something that a person can just remember to do if the system is screwed up and grub needs installation.  it needs a script
02:14 < ryouma> it is
02:15 < ryouma> should i still do umount --recursive?  ah, yes i presume so since i am using rbind
02:15 < kerframil> if you want to clean up later, sure. not sure what the context is here.
02:15 < kerframil> umount -R /path/to/chroot should do it all in one fell swoop, as long as nothing is keeping it busy
02:16 < ryouma> what is env-update and "user $cp /etc/portage/make.conf /mnt/mychroot/etc/portage # When using an existing installation, skip this command; user $cp /etc/resolv.conf /mnt/mychroot/etc" do?  i presume those are for gentoo.  except resolv.conf which maybe is only if you are going to use the net in the chroot?
02:16 < kerframil> that's not relevant to you
02:16 < ryouma> ok
02:16 < ryouma> still curious what gentoo does
02:16 < kerframil> the mount commands are what are of interest
02:18 < kerframil> the installation of gentoo basically entails the extraction of a snapshot of a formative root filesystem. you then mount the pseudo-filesystems and chroot in before carrying out some procedures to finish the installation and get it to be the point where it can boot itself.
02:18 < kerframil> ti's a bit like using debootstrap in debian, I suppose - but not automated in any way
02:20 < kerframil> thus, chrooting is a well understood concept among its userbase. for new users, typically when they forget to build something into their kernel and have to boot a livecd to fix things up.
02:21 < ryouma> lots of mounts though.  you'd have to write them down.
02:22 < kerframil> for me, it's second nature but yes - it can be quite a lot to digest and retain
02:23 < kerframil> as mentioned, --make-rslave is only strictly necessary where systemd is being used
02:23 < kerframil> actually, arch has a nice script that takes care of it
02:23 < kerframil> arch-chroot
02:27 < ryouma> but systemd is beign used in debian, so it is unnerving
02:27 < ryouma> yeah, debian should have that
02:27 < domhnall> ryouma: or write them in a script. (mount commands)
02:28 < ryouma> kerframil: does arch-chroot do what gentoo shows on the page?
02:29 < ryouma> domhnall: yeah that is what i am doing now using kerframil's instructions
02:29 < ryouma> domhnall: but if your system can't access your script it's annoying
02:29 < ryouma> or impossible
02:31 < kerframil> ryouma: approximately, though it goes further and takes care of things such as copying in the resolv.conf file and actually executing the chroot command
02:31 < kerframil> ryouma: https://git.archlinux.org/arch-install-scripts.git
02:32 < bls> scoff so much bloat and hand holding and training wheels
02:32 < domhnall> yeeeah, that arch-chroot blew my mind on my first install. I was like Whaaaa.
02:33 < SpeakerToMeat> Is there any way to tell screen to refresh?
02:33 < Mibix> is doing a mke2fs -m 0 a bad idea if its just a media drive?
02:33 < Mibix> i mean what do i need that root reserved section for anyway
02:33 < kerframil> Mibix: not really, no
02:34 < bls> SpeakerToMeat: <prefix>-Ctrl+L
02:34 < SpeakerToMeat> bls thank you
02:34 < Mibix> k ty kerframil
02:34 < Mibix> im not sure what im losing?
02:34 < bls> Mibix: i only reserve space on / /usr and /var
02:35 < Mibix> k sweet
02:35 < bls> and the /usr isnt really a thing anymore
02:35 < Mibix> trying to convert all my ntfs drives to ext4 and was like wtf why am i losing so much space then i found that -m
02:35 < kerframil> Mibix: having a little reserved space does make some sense on / and perhaps /var. that way, an unprivileged user can't wreck everything by completely filling up the filesystem. the root user still has some room to maneuver.
02:36 < kerframil> Mibix: it's by no means required, however
02:36 < Mibix> OMG this is so much faster
02:36 < Mibix> haha
02:36 < ryouma> i have two identically-formatted drives.  i rsync to them.  but one has a lot more free space than the other.  they have about identical contents.
02:37 < Mibix> 4x faster than ntfs
02:37 < bls> yeah if your fine booting recovery media in the event of disk full, it's not necessary
02:37 < ryouma> it's maybe because of dir slack or hardlink structure or smoething
02:37 < bls> or open file handles on one but not the other
02:37 < kerframil> Mibix: ntfs or ntfs-3g?
02:38 < SpeakerToMeat> Hmmm it was mc I had to ctrl-l
02:38 < ryouma> no open file handles.  but the difference is enormous.  like 60gb
02:39 < SpeakerToMeat> Man this is so slow that it feels like my 14.4 Kbps era
02:39 < SpeakerToMeat> I see a ctrl-l refresh line by line
02:40 < chey> heyy peeps
02:42 < domhnall> I hate those things
02:42 < Mibix> kerframil i think i was using ntfs-3g?
02:42 < kerframil> Mibix: yeah. it's slow.
02:55 < SpeakerToMeat> wtf my / at remote machien is suddenly %100 full (from 18Gb free) and if I delete a 2Gb file it is still %100 full
02:56 < SpeakerToMeat> I delete 10 600Mb files, still %100 full
02:56 < bls> probably have something pumping a file full as soon as you free up space
02:56 < SpeakerToMeat> Hmm yes but what... where
02:56 < SpeakerToMeat> No in my home
02:57 < bls> that or the kernel is struggling to shuffle the blocks around to return the free space back
02:57 < SpeakerToMeat> hmmm let me dmesg
02:57 < bls> check df -h, ncdu
02:57 < bls> lsof
02:57 < SpeakerToMeat> I'm doing ncdu home but I think I'll have to include /var (the usual culprit)
02:58 < bls> yeah, usually best to start at /
02:58 < SpeakerToMeat> Well I have a 11Gb syslog
02:58 < SpeakerToMeat> bls: if I ncdu at / i'll find out what it was in a qweek
03:03 < SpeakerToMeat> /var/log/syslog
03:04 < SpeakerToMeat> mc
03:10 < ryouma> kerframil: do i really want to bind mount /tmp into the chroot?  i am rsyncing to target, then chrooting to it just to install grub.  seems from my limited understanding that maybe i don't need to bind mount tmp or even do the rslave thing?
03:12 < kerframil> ryouma: /tmp isn't necessary. the significance of --make-rslave was already covered.
03:14 < ryouma> i didn't understand it then.  ok maybe i do: 17:08 <kerframil> ryouma: warning, --make-rslave is very important if you're using systemd. otherwise, unmounting from inside the chroot could also unmount the mount point from which it was bound. -- ok so i guess you are saying it prevents you from screwing things up by unmounting /from inside the chroot/.  i unmount outside it, so i don't need it.
03:15 < kerframil> ryouma: let me put in simpler terms
03:16 < ryouma> :)
03:16 < kerframil> ryouma: systemd overrides the kernel default of everything being private, in favour of shared
03:16 < kerframil> ryouma: if you do not use --make-rslave, any changes to the destination of bind mount can propagate back to its point of origin, so to speak
03:17 < kerframil> ryouma: it's really not something you want to risk. you can simplify things a little by not doing it as a distinct step e.g. mount --rbind --make-rslave /dev /mnt/chroot/dev
03:17 < toothe> anyone know where iptools's source code is? I can't seem to find it on github
03:18 < kerframil> ryouma: and by "changes" I mean changes to mount options, and even the process of unmounting
03:18 < kerframil> ryouma: you don't want these to affect the host environment
03:18 < toothe> oh wait, found it
03:18 < ryouma> kerframil: ok, so why does /proc not get the make-rslave treatment?
03:19 < kerframil> ryouma: because it's not being bind mounted
03:19 < kerframil> ryouma: it's just another instance of procfs
03:19 < kerframil> ryouma: if you did bind mount it, the same concerns would apply
03:20 < bls> toothe: do you mean net-tools or iproute2
03:21 < ryouma> kerframil: does it matter if i bind mount it or make ano9ther instance of it?
03:21 < kerframil> ryouma: tl;dr = using systemd? add --make-rslave when bind mounting anything (unless you absolutely know what you are doing)
03:21 < ryouma> i used to bind mount it
03:22 < kerframil> ryouma: I'm not specifically aware of any problems with bind mounting it
03:22 < kerframil> ryouma: it should also work
03:23 < ryouma> so i can go back to this, except add --make-rslave and make it --rbind instead of bind: for dir in /dev /proc /sys do mount --bind $dir $mountedroot$dir done (with appropriate newlines)?
03:24 < ryouma> (the reason i care is that this would be something i can possibly remember if needed, while a sequence of special cases i would not likely remember if needed)
03:24 < kerframil> ryouma: adding --make-rslave, quoting the variables and perhaps having a postfix `|| break` (or `|| exit` in a script) in case anything goes wrong. but yes.
03:25 < ryouma> great.  yes, i should consider error handling.  not sure what would work in the context of this specific script but yeah.
03:25 < kerframil> if it's a script, I think you just want || exit for each mount command. let it exit immediately, then you look at what was printed to STDERR and take action accordingly
03:25 < kerframil> doesn't need to be any more complicated than taht
03:25 < kerframil> for ...; do mount ... || exit; done
03:26 < ryouma> and also i need to use --rbind instead of --bind right?
03:26 < kerframil> I would, yes
03:26 < ryouma> kerframil:  it's a long shells cript.  an exit might be inappropriate.  but yeah.
03:26 < kerframil> it is equivalent to -bind if there are no submounts to be recursed anyway
03:26 < kerframil> --bind*
03:38 < toothe> is there a name for the system of eth0:1 eth0:2, etc?
03:38 < toothe> versus having just different addresses on the same interface?
03:38 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, obsoleted form of IP Aliases.
03:39 < Dan39> toothe: thats the way it was done with ifconfig, now we use iproute2 (ip, route, etc.)
03:40 < Dan39> which just adds multiple IPs to same interface
04:04 < cmj> hi Psi-Jack
04:04 < cmj> woof need a walk
04:08 < kerframil> Dan39: that's exactly what happens anyway. the concept of alias interfaces died with the release of kernel 2.2.
04:09 < gambl0re> i configured opendns on my mobile wifi network but its still not filtering content. anyone have any ideas?
04:10 < cmj> 2.2?
04:10 < gambl0re> cmj, what do you mean 2.2
04:10 < Psi-Jack> Moin
04:11 < cmj> i misread kerframil
04:12 < Dan39> kerframil: heh, i see
04:12 < kerframil> yes, 2.2
04:12 < bls> gambl0re: you're a bit lacking on details. what you did to which piece of software, how you did it, and why would go a long way towards your question being less vague
04:12 < kerframil> there was a Linux 2.2 once upon a time
04:12 < Dan39> kerframil: but ifconfig doesn't see the additional IPs when added with ip
04:12 < Dan39> dont know the backend details :P
04:13 < kerframil> Dan39: that's what people keep saying but (a) it's not true (b) it doesn't contract my point. here's the deal: they rae not "aliases", they're additional addresses with optional labels. if a label is defined, then ifconfig will continue to show them in its well known quirky way.
04:13 < bls> heh, back when all the nit pickers and overclockers use 2.1 or 2.3
04:13 < kerframil> contradict*
04:13 < gambl0re> bls, i followed this guide to a T. https://support.opendns.com/hc/en-us/articles/228009007-Android-Configuration-instructions-for-OpenDNS
04:13 < Dan39> i see
04:13 < kerframil> for instance, if you ip addr add dev <if> label "whatever", the ifconfig will show your so-called alias
04:13 < kerframil> the alias term just makes everything confusing
04:13 < Dan39> interesting
04:14 < gambl0re> opendns works on my laptop but it doesnt work on my android mobile device
04:14 < kerframil> Dan39: back in pre-2.2 kernels, they were sort of treated as distinct interfaces. for instance, they carried their own statistics.
04:14 < bls> gambl0re: so you're trying to make these settings in andriod?
04:14 < kerframil> Dan39: so looking it as an interface made some sense at the time
04:14 < kerframil> Dan39: not any more, of course
04:15 < gambl0re> yes
04:15 < bls> gambl0re: then you probably want #android, not #linux
04:15 < Dan39> i probably didnt even know what linux was when 2.2 was released
04:15 < Psi-Jack> I remember when they switched from a.out to ELF binaries. heh
04:15 < bls> or IPv3 to IPv4
04:16 < Dan39> 1999... older than i thought
04:17 < gambl0re> bls, whaat do you want me to do with ipv4
04:18 < bls> gambl0re: oh, sorry, that was directed at someone else.
04:19 < bls> gambl0re: for you, I feel like #android will be better at telling you how to override the network's DNS server settings
04:42 < RadarG> hello
04:43 < rx7a> Hello all!... I am installing Postfix, I don't understand the purpose of "postmaster"
04:43 < rx7a> ?
04:44 < Psi-Jack> postmaster the process, or the alias?
04:44 < bls> rx7a: what do you understand? or what's the problem?
04:44 < rx7a> When I install postfix, it is asking me Mail for the "postmaster"
04:46 < bls> rx7a: ah, that's a convention for ensuring there's someone to send an email to if someone needs to report a problem with your mail server. if you're not going to be receiving email on the internet via postfix, you don't need to worry about it being valid
04:46 < Psi-Jack> So, the alias.
04:47 < rx7a> Thanks for the answer bls, now I know :)
04:47 < Psi-Jack> Aztec|DeepState: "DeepState?"
04:48 < Aztec|DeepState> yessir
04:48 < Psi-Jack> Whazzat?
04:49 < Aztec|DeepState> I am in a 'deep state' of bliss listening to ollllld school electronic house tracks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwmtJ9vshY8&list=PLbliAWbuENjWhuo7fHPeNsxvOOApHvnjM&index=1
04:49 < Psi-Jack> Aztec|DeepState: "status" nickname changes are generally not permitted here.
04:49 < Aztec|DeepState> oki bye
04:49 < rx7a> Excuse bls, it is asking for "Root and postmaster mail recipient".
04:49 < rx7a> Then should I reply with "postmaster" or "postmaster@site001.com"
04:51 < bls> it's normally a valid user on the system
04:51 < bls> so if you don't have a postmaster user, that wouldn't work
04:51 < rx7a> Then I am going to set it to root@site001.com
04:52 < Psi-Jack> You receive email to root@yoursite?
04:53 < scampbell> rx7a: no one will be able to see where you send it to.  Typically you send it to your own user so that, in the rare case you actually get such mail, you'll see it.
04:54 < rx7a> If I am user001, user001@site001.com should be fine then...
04:55 < bls> no need for the @....
04:55 < scampbell> rx7a: you don't need to domain part, just user001
04:55 < phinxy> Might there be a poll for 5.0 naming?
04:56 < rx7a> Yeaa!... I can go forward now...
04:56 < rx7a> Thanks dudes :)
05:05 < jim> rx7a, say if joe owns a machine, installs linux on it, makes a user named joe... then most likely (and by joe's preference too), you'd tell it joe should receive root and postmaster mail, which would cause the mail system to deliver mail addressed to root@ or postmaster@, to joe
05:10 < rx7a> Thanks for the accuracy jim (y)
05:17 < z3t0> hi all
05:17 < z3t0> can someone recommend a simple lightweight image viewer
05:17 < z3t0> im looking at a list on the arch wiki but there seems to be a lot of choices
05:18 < triceratux> qiv, ristretto, viewnior
05:18 < bls> I've always just used 'display' from ImageMagick
05:18 < Dan39> i've gone through that many times and always try many beforing finding one i like, mainly one that allows switching between images very quickly
05:18 < domhnall> charmandor
05:19 < Dan39> but for a quick view of a couple images, i also often use display
05:19 < Dan39> since its very common
05:19 < Dan39> feh is popular of course
05:20 < Dan39> but either of those isn't great for viewing a ton of images quickly
05:22 < z3t0> feh seems to work thank you
05:47 < puff> Hi, trying to figure out how to use this USB "microscope".  lsusb says it's a "Cubeternet" which appears to be a webcam, which makes sense, it's just a cheap webcam with a cheap lense and an LED for light.
05:47 < puff> I remember hearing that I should be able to just point VLC at it, trying to figure out how to tell VLC to use it.
05:47 < TRS-80> puff: yeah that's how they show up. Cheese is easier than VLC.
05:48 < TRS-80> You want to use VLC? It's in file menu somewhere you have to find the device
05:48 < puff> I'm not wedded to it, as long as I can see the image and capture frames.
05:49 < puff> VLC has Media/Open Capture Device, but then I need to give it a name.
05:50 < puff> Hm, Cheese says "no device found"
05:50 < ryouma> z3t0: feh is the most useful i have ever used.  you can refile images with it for example.
05:50 < puff> Aha, unplugged it and plugged it back in.
05:52 < superkuh> feh++
05:53 < puff> TRS-80: Is there a way to grab frames with Cheese?
05:54 < TRS-80> puff yes somewhere, been a while since I used it
05:54 < TRS-80> button middle front of interface?
05:57 < puff> TRS-80: Ah, found it.
05:57 < RedFlash> Hello, I was here yesterday getting support for a raspberry pi that wouldn't connect to the internet. We managed to get the issue fixed (or so I thought) by rebooting the router. Unfortunately, this only got things working for about an hour. I've triple checked all network settings on the pi and on the router and I'm honestly at a loss as to what to do now. As always, logs, screencaps and any other info is available if needed. Any ideas?
05:58 < TRS-80> RedFlash: you try swapping cables?
05:58 < RedFlash> One moment
05:58 < TRS-80> also, you have plenty good power (supply)?
06:00 < Psi-Jack> Minimum 1 million watts. ;)
06:00 < Triffid_Hunter> RedFlash: can you ping -n 4.2.2.1 ? I find crappy routers often kill their DNS forwarding first, leaving other stuff working
06:00 < TRS-80> was your pinky in your mouth as you said that?
06:09 < BlueFlash> Okay, just swapped out the cables and caused my home network to implode. Back up and running. Pings are working for 8.8.8.8 and google.com so far
06:11 < phinxy> Do programs load kernel modules sometimes?
06:11 < bls> no
06:11 < domhnall> Think you mean 'use'
06:13 < lnnb> i think i've seen iptables try that
06:13 < bls> kernel modules get loaded into the kernel because they need access to special calls that only the kernel can make
06:14 < bls> so if you tried to load them into a userland program, it wouldn't have access to those interfaces
06:14 < phinxy> Is there a Linux fork which is always running the user in ring-0?  Or something equivilent?
06:15 < phinxy> Its probably a bad idea, nevermind.
06:15 < maxcell_> There is no volume icon on my Xfce (debian 9) and sound aren't working can somebody help me/
06:16 < jim> BlueFlash, that ping would mean your physical (IP) connection is working, and very likely dns lookups are working too
06:17 < bls> maybe kthreads, but not process forks
06:18 < BlueFlash> jim, DNS does work when I can connect to the net, but then I just get timeout errors. iptables -L produces nothing and ifconfig shows that everything is fine
06:21 < Triffid_Hunter> phinxy: that's called DOS :P
06:22 < Triffid_Hunter> phinxy: modern programs *can't* run in ring 0 because they expect the OS to do memory mapping for them
06:25 < jim> BlueFlash, under what conditions do you get timeout errors? what exactly were you trying to do at the time?
06:25 < taaperotassu> Seems like my cronjob uses another time zone than what my date does. How do I check what time is cronjob having and how to change it?
06:25 < Psi-Jack> DOS had memory managers for XMMS and EMS memory.
06:25 < domhnall> BlueFlash: yeah, I've gotten timeout errors when searching via google and google only. Too tired to find out why.
06:26 < BlueFlash> jim, I'm setting up a fresh install of raspbian via SSH. I had one terminal open with "ping 8.8.8.8" running constantly. Another terminal for general use (apt, file system ops)
06:27 < [R]> taaperotassu: if you run 'env -i date' does it show the same thing as just date?
06:27 < jim> ok, so that's your general situation?
06:30 < jim> BlueFlash, I guess you're working on that right now? I request you pause that for a moment so that I can get a clear picture from you of what's going on... otherwise, I end up waiting for long periods of silence and (frankly) wondering what happened to you
06:30 < BlueFlash> jim, I'm also running a deluge daemon, but that's running traffic through a SOCKS5 proxy. That hasn't worked right either. That's the only other software I've installed on that.
06:31 < jim> BlueFlash, ok, what's the exact command you're running that times out?
06:32 < BenderRodriguez> has anyone complied the linux kernel from scratch?
06:32 < BlueFlash> jim, It appears to be working at the moment (after changing the cables reset the router). It times out on this: "ping 8.8.8.8". And any other attempt to access the internet on that device
06:32 < taaperotassu> [R]: Hey it shows the same than the date
06:32 < [R]> taaperotassu: then your system timezone is correct... and cron should be using the same one
06:33 < taaperotassu> [R]: Tho my locale is not right so I am wondering if its somehow affecitng it
06:33 < jim> ok, so you're not as well connected as I thought
06:34 < BlueFlash> jim, If you like, you can take a look over teamviewer. I'm willing to give you access to try and sort this out. The connection from my current computer is rock solid, only the pi is affected, so you should be fine
06:34 < jim> BlueFlash, do these timeouts that happen when you ping 8.8.8.8, always? sometimes?
06:34 < domhnall> BenderRodriguez: could you be more specific?
06:35 < jim> BlueFlash, I would have to learn how to set up teamviewer :)
06:36 < jim> it's probably nothing besides installing it... but for the moment, let's try it without :)
06:36 < BlueFlash> jim, Once it starts timing out, that's it until I punch the router. It's fairly easy to set up :P
06:36 < BlueFlash> Okay
06:36 < jim> so something makes the router fail, but then you reset it?
06:38 < BlueFlash> From what I can gather, yes. I thought it might have been Upnp, since deluged was putting a bunch of entries in there. I don't think it was supposed to do that because traffic from it is supposed to be going through a SOCKS proxy. I've since disabled Upnp, but the aforementioned situation still occurs
06:39 < jim> BlueFlash, is there something else you're observing or doing yourself that corresponds timewise to when the router fails?
06:39 < jim> this deluge thing, is it easy to turn it on and off?
06:40 < jim> right now there's nothing else I'm aware of that might be affecting your connection
06:40 < BlueFlash> jim, The last time it happened, I was just reading up on PiVPN on my main PC. Then I noticed the ping command had hung. Deluge (torrents) can be stopped/started via systemd
06:41 < jim> ok
06:42 < jim> BlueFlash, when the ping of 8.8.8.8 fails, does the internet from your main PC also fail?
06:43 < BlueFlash> jim, Just the pi. Everything else on the network is unaffected. On the router webui, the pi still appears to be connected, and no error messages appear in the router logs
06:44 < BlueFlash> Which is what led me to believe it was an internal issue yesterday. I thought it might have been a DNS issue, then DHCP, then maybe iptables, but all of those appear to be properly configured
06:44 < jim> as far as your main PC and your pi are concerned what is the IP of your router? is it one of thoese that start with 192.168?
06:45 < BlueFlash> jim, My network is 10.1.1.* based. Router is 10.1.1.1, pi is 10.1.1.2, my PC is 10.1.1.3
06:45 < jim> is the pi currently up or currently failing?
06:46 < BlueFlash> I'm currently talking to it via SSH. Haven't had any problems SSH or it accessing the local network even when it couldn't access the net.
06:47 < jim> ok, that suggests your internal net is working
06:47 < jim> and that your pi's connectivity to the internal net is fine
06:48 < jim> from your pi, can you ping 10.1.1.1?
06:48 < BlueFlash> Yeah, this is so weird. That's what led me to believe it's an internal issue. I've gone through more forum posts and stackexchange questions than I can count
06:48 < BlueFlash> Yes, 10.1.1.1 responds
06:48 < jim> ok, that again suggests the pi is connected to your internal net
06:49 < jim> which machine is deluge running on?
06:49 < BlueFlash> deluge is running on the pi as a daemon, accessing it via webui on my PC
06:49 < jim> BlueFlash, also, can you ping yahoo.com from your main pc?
06:50 < BlueFlash> jim, Yes
06:50 < jim> ok, I suspect the problem lies in the default route thru 10.1.1.1 on the pi
06:52 < BlueFlash> jim, Okay, it just happened again
06:52 < jim> ok, don't "fix anything yet
06:52 < BlueFlash> Not touching anything
06:53 < jim> does your ssh to the pi still respond normally?
06:53 < BlueFlash> Yes, I'm still connected
06:53 < jim> ok, good, on the pi, could you do: ip route
06:54 < jim> and capture and pastebin that output?
06:54 < jim> I take it your main PC is still getting net? (I notice you're still here :)
06:54 < BlueFlash> jim, Yup! https://pastebin.com/APrt17cv
06:55 < BlueFlash> What's interesting is that while internet connectivity has broken via command line, deluge is still downloading one torrent
06:56 < jim> and deluge is running on the pi? (btw, ip route shows that the default route is still intact)
06:56 < BlueFlash> Yes
06:58 < BlueFlash> Pinging google results in: ping: google.com: Temporary failure in name resolution
06:58 < iflema> BlueFlash: ping 8.8.8.8
06:58 < jim> if you stop deluge and start it again, does it usually pick up the download from where it left off?
06:59 < BlueFlash> iflema, https://pastebin.com/b6a4a9WX
06:59 < jim> iflema, I'm guessing something is wrong with his default route (but, it's still intact as shown by ip route)
07:00 < [R]> you're a default route
07:00 < iflema> all cable?
07:00 < BlueFlash> jim, Torrents appear to have ground to a halt. Tracker status is: Error: Invalid Argument
07:01 < jim> of all the jokes from ancient egypt from 1000000 bc, that was the most common joke...
07:01 < BlueFlash> iflema, Ethernet all the way baby
07:02 < jim> invalid argument? do you know how ioctl works?
07:02 < BlueFlash> (not really :/)
07:02 < jim> ok,
07:03 < jim> so ioctl is a registry of these integer "symbols" to functions to call
07:04 < jim> that is, you would register an integer to a function call... the effect of which is, that when you later make an ioctl call with that same integer, it will call the function to which it's registered
07:05 < jim> do you understand that part?
07:05 < BlueFlash> Yes, but I don't know how that applies to a torrent tracker on deluge
07:06 < jim> so ioctl has a pile of integers that are each tied to a function call
07:06 < iflema> if cables are all good try to remember what _you_ broke...
07:07 < jim> the thing is, if you try to make an ioctl call to an integer that is not in the "pile", it says:
07:07 < jim> invalid argument
07:07 < iflema> did these flashes come out of the pi...
07:07 < BlueFlash> iflema, Brand new installation of raspbian, deluge being the only other thing installed. Problem also occurred on a previous OS on the pi
07:08 < jim> the next piece, is: that when you load kernel modules that are drivers, it usually registers a handful of ioctls
07:09 < iflema> pi... i have a banana
07:09 < iflema> nasty fing
07:11 < jim> so -maybe- what's happening, is a driver module is getting unloaded unexpectedly, causing some ioctls to become unregistered, and something else is making an ioctl call to an ioctl it thinks is still installed, but it's not anymore
07:11 < jim> so you get: invalid argument
07:11  * iflema sings... two steps forward, 25 million steps back
07:12 < jim> thing is, this is a guess, of what could be happening
07:12 < BlueFlash> jim, So there might be an entry in the syslog? Teamviewer offer is still on the table btw
07:12 < jim> and I don't believe you have the kind of direct control over this thing so you can fix it
07:13 < jim> that's very possible, yes
07:13 < jim> so maybe if you watch a particular log, you might be able to see the driver loads and unloads
07:14 < BlueFlash> What in tarnation?! I just ran a search for mentions of deluge and the terminal imploded. I'll dump the output into pastebin
07:15 < jim> ok, sounds good
07:16 < jim> hope your terminal didn't have an actual crt when it imploded...
07:16 < BlueFlash> jim, heh https://pastebin.com/CgQX86G5
07:18 < BlueFlash> Would this help? https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=196767
07:18 < iflema> me snakes...
07:19  * iflema squirrel
07:20 < jim> BlueFlash, I dunno... I haven't made any sense out of the deluge pastebin yet
07:21 < iflema> pip
07:22 < BlueFlash> jim, Okay. The systemd messages are repeated A LOT. Main process exited -> Unit entered failed state -> Failed with result 'exit-code' -> Scheduling restart
07:22  * BlueFlash throws a big red brick at iflema
07:24 < jim> yeah, all I can see is the repeated message about it ignoring a conversion method
07:25 < let34> hi i am logged in as root
07:25  * [R] gives let34 a gold satr
07:25 < [R]> star*
07:25 < let34> i am trying to execute this command usermod -m -d '/home/app/flink-dist/target/flink-1.4.2-bin/flink-1.4.2' app
07:25 < let34> however it says usermod: user app is currently used by process 17252
07:25  * iflema nasty fing
07:25 < let34> if i do ps -p 17252
07:25 < [R]> so kill the process
07:25 < let34> it shows me that its sshd
07:25 < let34> now if i kill this process i might get exited out of the vm
07:26 < [R]> if thats your ssh session, there is no might
07:26 < let34> so what can i do without getting exited out
07:27 < jim> let34, be very careful when you're logged in as root... lots of power at your fingertips
07:27 < [R]> you could move it manually and then edit /etc/passwd
07:27 < [R]> and pray you don't screw something up...
07:27 < let34> sure jim
07:27  * [R] giggles
07:27 < let34> is it ok to edit the /etc/passwd
07:27 < jim> well
07:27 < [R]> if you don't screw it up...
07:27 < jim> first... it's your machine, so you can do whatever...
07:28 < let34> [R]: does that going to screw up things?
07:28 < jim> second, it might be better to let the programs that were designed for it (usermod in this case) do it for you
07:29 < let34> but running usermod command says that user app is currently used by process 17252
07:29 < let34> if check fo ps -p 17252 it says sshd
07:30 < let34> now if i kill sshd, ill be exited out of the session
07:30 < let34> [R]: after editing the /etc/passwd file , do you think we have to get that sourced or something?
07:30 < [R]> log out and log back in
07:30 < jim> so it's claiming the files of the user are busy... because it's running sshd as that user
07:37 < let34> jim: [R] i went ahead and edited the passwd file
07:38 < let34> however if i do echo $HOME
07:38 < let34> i dont see the change getting reflected
07:38 < [R]> [10:30:37] <[R]> log out and log back in
07:41 < storge> [R]: yessir
07:41 < [R]> yessir what
07:41 < storge> i just felt like agreeing
07:46 < syb0rg> hey you have a real point there, storge
07:49 < lopid> i conquer
07:50 < let34> [R]: its asking for password
07:50 < [R]> what?
07:50 < let34> probably i shd have copied the .ssh directory as well
07:50 < storge> gentlemen, we can all agree Paris is the capital of France. would you agree with me on that?
07:51 < pingfloyd> no
07:51 < Dagmar> No, 'P' is the capital of "Paris"
07:52 < Dagmar> It should be perfectly obvious and anyone who disagrees is clearly a communist
07:52 < storge> damn, and just when i thought we were all about to be in agreement
07:52 < lopid> what a mistake-a to make-a
07:52 < pingfloyd> communism is against my nazi religion
07:53 < pingfloyd> storge: agreements are overrated
07:53 < storge> pingfloyd: i agree
07:55 < storge> someone was talking about deluge, it got me thinking. are there still any good torrent search sites out there? i haven't looked in ages. i just remember some notables being shut down.
07:55 < pingfloyd> storge: TPB
07:56 < storge> TPB is back/up?
07:56 < storge> i thought it was long gone
07:56 < pingfloyd> did it go down again recently?
07:56 < storge> i thought those evil swedes danced with the devil to prosecute those guys
07:56 < storge> or perhaps i dreamt it
07:56 < storge> no a long time ago
07:57 < pingfloyd> whoa looks like it is down again
07:57 < Dagmar> Yep
07:57 < pingfloyd> like yesterday, literally
07:57 < storge> and now with GDPR
07:57 < storge> i suppose the torrent sites will serve euro visitors a 451
07:58 < thatpythonguy> for some reason, the 'locate' command is finding files that i've already removed.. any ideas?
07:58 < pingfloyd> storge: https://www.techworm.net/2018/06/the-pirate-bay-down-again.html
07:59 < pingfloyd> storge: no idea if those recommended alternative are worth a crap or not
07:59 < bls> thatpythonguy: locate runs on a cache/database thats usually only regenerated once a week
07:59 < thatpythonguy> do you know how I would manually override that?
07:59 < Dagmar> Well, updatedb runs
08:00 < pingfloyd> thatpythonguy: you can always run updatedb manually
08:00 < thatpythonguy> with sudo, it seems
08:00 < thatpythonguy> thanks ill try that
08:00 < bls> or you could just use find
08:00 < Dagmar> bah too much work
08:00 < pingfloyd> thatpythonguy: keeping the cron job around for it is a good idea though, as it will make the manual invocation complete faster since it maintains it.
08:01 < thatpythonguy> sudo updatedb gives me an error
08:01 < pingfloyd> I use locate when trying to locate files, and use find when I need to do something more than that
08:01 < pingfloyd> since find is a slow and index-less process
08:01 < thatpythonguy> it says /usr/bin/find: '/run/user/1000/gvfs': Permission denied
08:01 < pingfloyd> but find is perfect when you need to do more than just "find it"
08:02 < Dagmar> It'll give more errors than that when you let it look at dynamic "directories" like /proc and so on
08:02 < pingfloyd> there's also the wacky alternative mlocate
08:02 < Dagmar> There's also probably systemd-slocatectl
08:03 < thatpythonguy> ok somehow running sudo updatedb fixed my problem
08:03 < thatpythonguy> i dont know how lol
08:03 < Dagmar> It's literally updatedb's job to build/maintain the database that locate uses
08:04 < pingfloyd> thatpythonguy: really anytime you suspect outdated result with locate, you should be running updatedb
08:04 < storge> updatedb updated slocated DataBase
08:04 < storge> updates*
08:04 < za1b1tsu> I don't have an ethernet adapter, so regarding minimal linux installations like ubuntu minimal or arch linux, do I have to get an usb ethernet adapter or wifi generally works? I'm on a 2015 MBP.
08:04 < pingfloyd> s/result/results/
08:04 < luke-jr> eh, updatedb takes like an hour and kills system performance
08:04 < Dagmar> wifi will work
08:04 < luke-jr> whenever I'm awake when it runs, I always kill it
08:04 < storge> nowadays i just run updatedb the moment before i run locate.
08:04 < pingfloyd> storge: same here
08:04 < Dagmar> luke-jr: That's why it's run by cron, late at night, under the control of ionice
08:05 < za1b1tsu> Dagmar: thank you
08:05 < Dagmar> If it's not being reniced, your system architect has failed
08:05 < luke-jr> Dagmar: talking about these guys suggesting running it before usign locate
08:05 < thatpythonguy> its strange because locate was finding files i just created about an hour ago, maybe its just a coincidence
08:05 < storge> i never have enough data for updatedb to take any real length of time. and it's notably faster on my ssd than hdd
08:05 < Dagmar> The only bad thing I have to say about updatedb is that it's scared the hell out of a few of my girlfriends
08:05 < pingfloyd> luke-jr: which dist are you using?
08:05 < luke-jr> pingfloyd: Gentoo
08:06 < luke-jr> I have several TB on my system though
08:06 < Dagmar> Having eight boxes, some with full-height high-speed SCSI drives in them, all run it at once at ~4:30am...
08:06 < Dagmar> They make a noise like some kind of uglt monster just broke into the room
08:06 < luke-jr> lol
08:06 < pingfloyd> Dagmar: they can't tell what you're doing anyway if it's beyond email, facebook, etc.
08:06 < Dagmar> s/uglt/ugly
08:06 < pingfloyd> gaming in some instances
08:06 < Dagmar> pingfloyd: They know what to do when some freaky monster growling starts happening from the far wall
08:06 < storge> what do you people with terabytes of data have anyway? is it video? i boggle at it, when i still run 40GB hdds that are mostly empty
08:07 < Dagmar> Freak right hte hell out and grab me.  lol
08:07 < luke-jr> storge: sometimes I wonder
08:07 < pingfloyd> is there a monster in your walls?
08:07 < Dagmar> Video, audio, virtual machines, work files, buttloads of source tarballs
08:07 < pingfloyd> put a cat in the wall to hunt it down
08:07 < luke-jr> TBs is too much to keep track of :D
08:07 < Dagmar> LOTS of distribution ISOs for feeding to Vms
08:07 < mices> is chrooting as easy on plain linux as on a chromebook using croutons?
08:07 < Dagmar> pingfloyd: No but at the time one of my walls was basically made out of machines
08:08 < mices> am i wrong to love my chromebook cause i can create chroots
08:08 < luke-jr> chroots are nothing special..
08:08 < Dagmar> Building chroots generally requires understanding how they work
08:08 < Dagmar> ...and little else
08:08 < pingfloyd> (cat in the wall is a joke for any moronic lurkers out there that may be thinking it's a good idea.)
08:09 < mices> i know the syntax to create with chromeos but otherwise not
08:09 < pingfloyd> Dagmar: what kind of machines
08:09 < luke-jr> chroot just operates on a normal filesystem
08:09 < storge> a guy in another channel just told a story of putting his cat in the microwave "as a funny joke" and then feigned worry that his microwave could accidently turn on.
08:10 < luke-jr> maybe it was a "smart" microwave
08:10 < Kharma> I am on a CB right now
08:10 < Kharma> love chromeos
08:10 < pingfloyd> Dagmar: the thing is, women seem to freak out if a guy has any decent collection of technology laying around in general
08:10 < luke-jr> someone could get his IP from IRC and hack in :p
08:10 < Kharma> I use Gallium, however I'm in a VM on Cloud Shell in ChromeOS right now
08:10 < luke-jr> my wife has been surprisingly tolerant of my new PC with its almost-always-noisy fans
08:11 < storge> or perhaps it's noisy fans conceal her frustrated muttering
08:11 < luke-jr> XD
08:14 < pingfloyd> storge: that guy sounds creepy
08:15 < syb0rg> background noise from fans is coming, win win
08:15 < syb0rg> *calming
08:15 < pingfloyd> yeah
08:15 < pingfloyd> it helps you sleep better
08:16 < pingfloyd> drowns out any startling noises going on
08:16 < lnnb> like all the cats trying to escape your walls
08:16 < pingfloyd> best sound for getting sleep is the ocean
08:16 < syb0rg> but the ocean has freaky shit in it, I dunno
08:17 < pingfloyd> syb0rg: so do lakes
08:17 < pingfloyd> and sometimes even ponds
08:17 < syb0rg> that loch ness monstah for instance
08:17 < pingfloyd> yeah, probably a prehistoric species
08:18 < syb0rg> wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't always after my tree fitty
08:19 < pingfloyd> you sure he isn't after your Lucky Charms?
08:19 < storge> i tend to use a mix of white and pink noise over binaural beats. i fall asleep fast and sleep deep and hard.
08:19 < zamlz> whats pink noise
08:19 < Elladan> Making my computer quiet has pretty much been my #1 priority for the last 10-15 years.
08:20 < Elladan> The worst issues seem to be GPUs
08:20 < pingfloyd> Nessie is Scot which is close enough
08:20 < introom> Elladan: buy a powerful one, put it in the garage, and screen shware with it.
08:20 < introom> that's my solution, and works well.
08:21 < goob> is there a loglevel or kernel option that will create something like an strace of everything?
08:21 < lnnb> get some fanless matrox gpu
08:22 < zamlz> water cool your gpu, easy
08:22 < Elladan> There are more modern fanless GPUs, but the nicer higher end ones will spin the fans down completely when lightly loaded.
08:22 < pingfloyd> use a peltier junction
08:22 < Elladan> So the noise only spins up when you run a game or something.
08:22 < storge> i guess that 3m or dupont product 'sapphire' never made it into the watercooling crowd
08:23 < storge> remember that demonstration where they drop a working laptop into it and since it's not water, but can cool it, happy laptop
08:24 < Elladan> Cray used that stuff decades ago, except they were using CFC's. Sorry ozone layer!
08:24 < bls> wasn't that insanely expensive and only slightly better than mineral oil?
08:26 < storge> yeah i'd just use mineral oil. or cod liver oil, for healthiness.
08:33 < Elladan> introom, how do you screen share, BTW?
08:41 < Lope> is there a way to (until next reboot) unbind all of gnome's global hotkeys with a command?
08:41 < syb0rg> Elladan, I would like to know a good answer to this also. VNC kinda works, but not nearly as well as sitting in front of the physical machine (though maybe with better configuration it would)
08:45 < luke-jr> syb0rg: what shortcomings do you find with VNC?
08:45 < Kharma> I use TigerVNC
08:46 < syb0rg> a bit of lag, and no audio (which I am sure could be fixed if I bothered). Which is fine for like troubleshooting and what not, but not for keeping your pc in another room and remoting in to play games on
08:46 < Elladan> TigerVNC worked OK for me, but not nearly as well as Steam's remote play thing.
08:46 < syb0rg> yeah, that I can see working well
08:47 < Elladan> (Because of lameness, steam actually seems to capture the whole screen, so you can get it to accidentally screen share sometimes)
08:48 < Elladan> Mainly, I think it works better because of hardware video encoding. It's also much lower latency though.
08:48 < syb0rg> yeah, that is one of the main things I would expect it to focus on. Less so for traditional screen sharing
08:49 < syb0rg> low latency, that is
08:50 < Dagmar> Well, yeah.  That's why we've got a ludicrous number of cores in GPUs now
08:50 < Elladan> Any sort of general purpose screen sharing, you really want low latency.
08:51 < syb0rg> Yeah but when I think screen sharing I think IT support/monitoring - in either case a little lag is not really a big deal
08:51 < Elladan> It's just difficult to accomplish without using UDP on a LAN.
08:51 < Dagmar> Steam works pretty well for that
08:51 < syb0rg> gaming though?
08:51 < syb0rg> pretty big deal
08:51 < Elladan> Yeah fair enough, if you just want a software KVM then it really doesn't matter. You just want reliability
08:51 < Dagmar> I dunno.  I play Wayward pretty often over the LAN on my laptop
08:51 < Kharma> Steam Remote Play? Let me guess..not fre?
08:51 < Kharma> free*
08:52 < Dagmar> Just a normal part of Steam
08:52 < Kharma> I couldn't understand Wayward! I got a refund on it
08:52 < Elladan> It's free as in money, but not libre.
08:52 < luke-jr> might want to try Xpra
08:52 < syb0rg> I want free money!
08:52 < jeffree> is there a convenient way of searching all commands? say I want to search for any command that has 'top' in it?
08:52 < Dagmar> Kharma: Until you get a bit focused on Not Being Eaten, yeah, you spend a lot of time starting over
08:52 < Kharma> So wait.. wow.. I wondr if Icould play Steam from ChromeOS
08:53 < Kharma> apt search -term-
08:53 < Elladan> I tried Xpra briefly. I didn't like how it pulled in like every library and package in the entire world in some sort of bizarre attempt to do everything
08:53 < luke-jr> it's pretty badly designed IMO
08:53 < Elladan> It did work OK, when it didn't flake out.
08:53 < luke-jr> but works decent
08:53 < jeffree> I mean to search commands already in my path
08:53 < luke-jr> I use Xpra for all my browsers
08:54 < luke-jr> (cuz I don't trust them to run on my real PC)
08:54 < syb0rg> jeffree, you can ls the directories in your path and pipe the output to grep
08:54 < Elladan> Kharma, there's a remote play android app now, so possibly.
08:54 < jeffree> syb0rg: yeah, I was hoping some tool might exist for this or something that makes it quick and easy
08:55 < Kharma> :O Sweet. I already love Termux too
08:55 < syb0rg> I don't personally know of a single command for that but there may be one, this is definitely a good place to ask =P
08:55 < Kharma> Going to Android root my Chromebook and try Linux Deploy too
08:55 < Dagmar> um... do a find for executables matching the pattern *top* ?
08:55 < Elladan> Steam remote play works a lot better with NVidia cards on the server side BTW.
08:55 < Kharma> I duel boot linux, but I'd love to go back to just ChromeOS
08:56 < syb0rg> Kharma, you heathen =P
08:57 < luke-jr> jeffree: perl -e 'for my $d (split /:/, $ENV{PATH}){ print "$_\n" for glob("$d/*put your search here*") }'
08:58 < luke-jr> top matches desktop and "* to p*" type tools though
08:59 < jeffree> luke-jr: thanks
09:00 < Kharma> I'm a Google fan-girl xD.. And ChromeOS is so asthetically pleasing
09:00 < luke-jr> can be shortened to: perl -le 'for(split /:/,$ENV{PATH}){print for glob "$_/*top*"}'
09:00 < Kharma> to me
09:00 < syb0rg> yeah it probably is, but I am the opposite of a google fangirl (opposite of both parts of that word)
09:00 < Elladan> I enjoy the lack of tech-support calls I get from my family when I give them ChromeOS laptops.
09:01 < syb0rg> google is just a data hoover, albeit a very useful one
09:01 < Kharma> Months ago though there wasn't even as many options to do "normal" things on Chromebooks.. now, there is really nothing they can't do
09:01 < Kharma> if you know how
09:01 < luke-jr> can they enable me to eat pizza again? :x
09:01 < syb0rg> yeah, I am sure it works well, google is usually good at making products. I just feel like I'm signing my soul over to them when I use their stuff :-O
09:01 < syb0rg> at least a fraction of it
09:02  * luke-jr makes an effort to avoid using Google stuff nowadays
09:02 < syb0rg> which does not prevent from owning an android phone, a gmail account and lots of stuff on google docs
09:02  * syb0rg shrugs
09:02 < Kharma> Better Google than any competition though, like Facebook or something.. I'd rather have Google have my data than anyone, realsly
09:02 < Kharma> rally*
09:02 < Kharma> really**
09:02 < jeffree> looks like libfile-searchpath-perl might be what I was looking for
09:02 < syb0rg> I'd rather me has my data
09:03 < Kharma> Well, yes
09:03 < rud0lf> google slowly learns you from network activity, and at critical point they replace you with a cyborg
09:03 < Stupendoussteve> I trust Apple over Google, when it comes to cloud services... except they are limited in what you can use to access them
09:03 < luke-jr> I host my own email, IM, and GPS tracking at least
09:03 < syb0rg> shit don't give my secret away rud0lf
09:03 < rud0lf> sorry
09:03 < rud0lf> :(
09:03 < Kharma> I try to self host where I can. I stoppd paying for webhosting.. Google provides free hosting for me now.
09:03 < rud0lf> all please do /clear now
09:03 < Bebef> Stupendoussteve: why?
09:03 < Kharma> If I could build a webserver, I would
09:03 < rud0lf> for syb0rg's sake
09:04 < syb0rg> a vps is pretty darn cheap these days
09:04 < Kharma> I love Google Cloud Services.. Apple? Umm.. that's.. are you joking? lol
09:04 < Stupendoussteve> Bebef: Their privacy stance tends to be better, since they are not a data mining company and make most of their money off hardware and software sales
09:04 < syb0rg> and I have enough local storage to store and back up my own data
09:04 < Kharma> Apple is so close-minded IMO
09:04  * luke-jr remembers the water he left on the stove to boil <.<
09:04 < syb0rg> I rather like apple's stance toward user data
09:04 < rud0lf> luke-jr: now you burned water
09:04 < Stupendoussteve> They are, unfortunately - they just happen to be nicer with data
09:05 < Kharma> Well, how do you really know what they are doing with it though?
09:05 < luke-jr> syb0rg: "we can spy on you, but not the government"?
09:05 < Kharma> CIA = Facebook, totally.
09:05 < luke-jr> frankly, I'd rather the government spy on me than Apple
09:05 < storge> it's all going to end up at the same place
09:05 < syb0rg> luke-jr, are they data mining to anything near the extent of other major tech companies though?
09:06 < luke-jr> (although I got rid of my Intel/AMD CPUs to avoid even that)
09:06 < Stupendoussteve> True enough, but that applies to every company. I usually trust a policy that says they respect privacy over one that says they don't, and many of their products do processing offline (image recognition for example)
09:06 < luke-jr> syb0rg: who knows
09:06 < Kharma> At least Googl is straight up with the data they have, use, what they use it for.. and are watched like a hawk.. I feel safer with them being as big as they are
09:06 < syb0rg> yeah, but at least they aren't normalizing it if they are hiding it. Sad, small victory though that may be
09:06 < syb0rg> and it leaves the possibility that they aren't open
09:07 < storge> ever heard of google ideas? helping overthrow foreign governments and such? you feel safer with that?
09:07 < Kharma> Way back when.. I was an iPhone freak.. dispised Android.. until I used one.. never looked back
09:07 < luke-jr> syb0rg: you have zero control over Apple stuff
09:07 < Elladan> I'm indifferent to Apple vs. Google, they're both better than average about treating your data with a modicum of respect, but nobody is really trustworthy except yourself.
09:07 < syb0rg> honestly, they are pretty well aligned with the "intelligence community" so far as I can tell, so they get the opposite of trust from me
09:07 < syb0rg> Google, that is
09:07  * luke-jr hopes we eventually move to a self-hosted world
09:07 < Der_Fuhrer> Alle Juden gehen zur Hölle
09:07 < syb0rg> I think that is the ideal outlook, Elladan
09:07 < storge> syb0rg: opposite of trust for me as well
09:07 < ConsoleFx> My current kernel version is 4.13.0-26-generic. One of the sys admin ran an library upgrades routine but since /boot space is totally full, the upgrade got terminated in between. Now I see there are some vmlinuz-packages with higher version numbers. If I delete those files from /boot, can it be considered safe?
09:07 < mavorsa> computing with google is like taking a shower in a prison where everyone can see your junk
09:08 < jeffree> luke-jr: if you don't mind saying, what cpus do you use?
09:08 < syb0rg> heh
09:08 < Der_Fuhrer> Ich bin der Führer. Willkommen im Dritten Reich
09:08 < luke-jr> ConsoleFx: I wouldn't
09:08 < luke-jr> jeffree: IBM POWER9
09:08 < Stupendoussteve> I'm not sure what "being as big as they are" means. Google/Alphabet is smaller than Apple
09:08 < Elladan> Facebook OTOH is pure evil.
09:08 < Der_Fuhrer> Ich spreche nicht gut ingles
09:08 < ConsoleFx> I could see there are vmlinux files i.e. 4.13.0-45 etc etc
09:08 < Der_Fuhrer> Elladan: Fick
09:08 < ConsoleFx> luke-jr, aah :(
09:08 < ConsoleFx> I think i am screwed then :(
09:08 < luke-jr> ConsoleFx: find your OS's cleanup tool
09:08 < Der_Fuhrer> ConsoleFx: fick
09:08 < syb0rg> Are they truly smaller, Stupendoussteve? Or just less rich?
09:08 < Stupendoussteve> Smaller in employees too
09:09 < Stupendoussteve> At least a few years ago
09:09 < syb0rg> interesting, I would not have guessed that
09:09 < ConsoleFx> fick is a package or something?
09:09 < ConsoleFx> Der_Fuhrer, ?
09:10 < Stupendoussteve> ConsoleFx: No, he's trolling
09:10 < ConsoleFx> oops okay
09:10 < sauvin> And badly.
09:10 < syb0rg> ConsoleFx, you could always just move the files rather than delete them, and put them back if something bad happens
09:11 < sauvin> Hey... Der_Fuhrer... ich habe gehoert, dass du ein zehr kleine Schwanz hast! Ist es wahr?
09:11 < Der_Fuhrer> sauvin: Sie sind ein Idiot
09:11 < syb0rg> Hey I know one of those words
09:11 < syb0rg> two actually
09:11 < lnnb> was it schwanz?
09:11 < bartmon> i think it was
09:11 < syb0rg> nah it was ein and idiot
09:11 < Kharma> Elladan: Facebook is ick.. I wish Google+ took off instad
09:11 < syb0rg> what are you, ein idiot? =P
09:11 < Der_Fuhrer> Nein, ficker
09:11 < ConsoleFx> syb0rg, hmm okay
09:11 < Kharma> instad*
09:12 < ConsoleFx> let me moving those files vmlinux files (not yet active kernel versions)
09:12 < Kharma> my e ky is poo
09:12 < ConsoleFx> lets see if that solves the issue
09:12 < Stupendoussteve> Kharma: Bad conductor
09:12 < syb0rg> hopefully it does consolefx
09:12 < Elladan> Kharma, I don't really see the point to any of these social things. Except the chinese social-control one, I guess. When directed purely towards evil, they seem notable.
09:13 < Kharma> I like Twitter, and blogging.
09:13 < taaperotassu> Anyone using megatools to backup their servers? I think its good to automate pushing but putting passwords in plaintext feels dangerous.
09:13 < Stupendoussteve> I don't get twitter, just seems like constant narcissism and bandwagons
09:13 < Der_Fuhrer> Nigger sind Schwule
09:13 < Kharma> I use to Facebook all the time.. now, I just use messenger.. even then, normally just us Bitlbee to use messenger on irssi
09:13 < syb0rg> I mean even IRC could be considered social media, I don't think social media is a bad thing, just its abuse
09:13 < wodencafe> no sir
09:14 < sauvin> Der_Fuhrer, you've had your Spass, time to move on now.
09:14 < Der_Fuhrer> sauvin: Alle Grüße deine Mutter! Ihre Muschi ist herrlich!
09:14 < Stupendoussteve> Ooo unicode
09:14 < syb0rg> who can argue with authentic European gibberish like that?
09:15 < Der_Fuhrer> syb0rg: Fuck your mother
09:15 < syb0rg> no thanks
09:15 < Der_Fuhrer> I am the spirit of adolf hitler
09:15 < syb0rg> the irony is that would get you thrown in jail in germany
09:15 < storge> and like hitler, you're gone
09:15 < Stupendoussteve> I read that as spirit animal
09:16 < syb0rg> lol
09:16 < syb0rg> are there any blonde, blue eyed animals?
09:16 < rud0lf> Stupendoussteve: aWolf ?
09:16 < taaperotassu> [Login]
09:16 < taaperotassu> Username = Your_Mega_Username
09:16 < lnnb> wtf is this an INI file?
09:17 < taaperotassu> sorry I just accidentally pasted here
09:17 < taaperotassu> lol
09:17 < Stupendoussteve> It's ok, your password showed up as ******
09:17 < taaperotassu> that was just an example file
09:17 < syb0rg> I actually did that with a password earlier but it was a low value one fortunately
09:17 < Stupendoussteve> I thought the username looked a bit unoriginal
09:17 < Kharma> Google basically gives you a free VM as part of their always free tier.. unlike Amazon.. btw, if anyone uses a Chromebook or needs a small server to experimnt with.. plus like 300 credit for a year. Although Amazon is more "production ready".. I hav't tried other cloud providers besides those 2
09:18 < syb0rg> right, I heard about that
09:18 < lnnb> google has free vm's?
09:18 < Kharma> Yep
09:18 < syb0rg> I am actually paying a whole euro a month for a vps right now
09:18 < Stupendoussteve> Part of the compute engine
09:18 < syb0rg> what are the specs of it like?
09:18 < lnnb> and they don't make you put in some credit card mumbo jumbo?
09:18 < Stupendoussteve> Amazon used to have a free tier, but I haven't touched AWS since it was first released
09:19 < syb0rg> amazon still offers a free trial deal I think
09:19 < Kharma> small, micro.. but the 300 credit makes up for it for a yar at least
09:19 < Kharma> year
09:19 < Kharma> stupid e
09:19 < syb0rg> yarrr
09:19 < Kharma> Ya, but I went over budget with them twice, I havent paid google a cent for moneth
09:20 < jeffree> luke-jr: why that chip?
09:20 < Kharma> months*
09:20 < lnnb> gah
09:21 < Kharma> and after a year with amazon, you're screwed.. Google includes a month of running micro instance, each month, even after the trial
09:22 < Kharma> Amazon offers an always free for Storagee I think
09:22 < Kharma> same with google too though
09:22 < syb0rg> I think amazon's free offer is intended only to help students and devs learn their ecosystem
09:23 < Kharma> MAkes sense
09:24 < shrdlu68> jeffree: find `awk '{gsub(":"," "); print $0}' <<< $PATH` -type f -name "*top*"
09:24 < Kharma> lnnb: no credit needed. They pay you
09:24 < syb0rg> haha, I think someone beat you to that a loooong time ago shrdlu68
09:25 < Kharma> and.. each google account qualifies..
09:25 < Kharma> ehem..
09:25 < Kharma> shhh
09:25 < jeffree> shrdlu68: thanks
09:25 < lnnb> If you are eligible, your free trial will start when you sign up for Google Cloud Platform. To sign up, sign in or create a Google Account. You will also need a credit card or bank account details so we can verify your identity. You will not be charged or billed during your free trial.
09:25 < syb0rg> that is a good point actually, you could potentially get a decent amount of resources with a handful of accounts
09:25 < lnnb> Kharma: ^^^
09:25 < syb0rg> ah but lnnb with the buzzkill
09:26 < Kharma> also, their ToS is "Do what you want, don't harm others" so adult content is allowed, and has been confirmed.. just fyi
09:26 < syb0rg> cool I can archive all the best stuff on xnxx now
09:26 < Kharma> I didn't need to on my account that's not connected to any payment methods with Google Play or anything though :/
09:27 < Kharma> but maybe because that account was long standing already I duno
09:27 < Kharma> My main account is conected via CC to Google play
09:27 < Kharma> but it's not even a valiud cc anymore
09:28 < syb0rg> but if it was when you registered it they have validation of your identity
09:28 < lnnb> lol "always free", unless you exceed usage limits
09:28 < lnnb> Any usage above Always Free usage limits will be automatically billed at standard rates. To help control costs, consider setting up budgets and alerts through the Google Cloud Platform Console.
09:28 < syb0rg> or until they say nevermind
09:29 < Stupendoussteve> They're usually pretty good with grandfathering users when they end a deal like that
09:29 < Kharma> Well, I have never yet, I can't even spend my credit.. Amazon was scary though, even with budget alerts, I owed 20 dollars twice o_o
09:29 < Stupendoussteve> I've still got an Apps for Business account from when there was a free tier
09:29 < syb0rg> true, I used to have a free google apps account with them
09:29 < syb0rg> oh hey beat me to it
09:29 < Kharma> Gsuite went into a free lgacy mode
09:29 < Kharma> for old account
09:30 < Kharma> legacy*
09:31 < Kharma> syb0rg: I believe with the always free, there is a 6 month depreciation warning built into the SLA
09:31 < syb0rg> that is good
09:32 < Kharma> I may be mistaken on that but.. They won't just pull the plug within a month .. most services in stable offering, even some betas have a good SLA contract
09:33 < Kharma> Alpha stuff you're on your own.. oh, and also their cloud shell, via the console, gives a 5gb persistant local dockerfile type VM.. makes a good docker sandbox
09:34 < shrdlu68> Actually find `awk '{gsub(":"," "); print $0}' <<< $PATH` -type f -regextype awk -regex ".*top[^/]*" is much better
09:34 < domhnall> So, found out why google was timing out. Turns out, I had [~5] browser sessions open on remote host. Go figure. All it well now.
09:34 < syb0rg> why's that shrdlu68?
09:35 < shrdlu68> syb0rg: With -name *top* it will match "top" anywhere in the path.
09:35 < Kharma> there is a "secret group" for cloud shell which allows for whitelisting of your account so you can customize your dockerfile environment so it persists sytem wide settings between sessions;. otherwise just home dir persists
09:35 < syb0rg> ah, fair point then  shrdlu68
09:36 < syb0rg> huh, that is a nice little feature Kharma
09:37 < Kharma> one of my VM console logs read "starting session 109 with Kharma.." as I ssh'd to it the other day.. I wonder if I have like 100 open ssh sessions going on o_o
09:38 < Kharma> That's possible to happen too I think I had read, wish ssh in general .. hmm
09:38 < syb0rg> Kharma: pgrep ssh | wc -w
09:38 < Techknight_> Hi guys. I don't know if this is the right channel to ask this question but here it comes.
09:38 < Kharma> I usually always "exit" but.. guess we can't always say always
09:38 < syb0rg> that will tell you active ssh sessions
09:39 < Kharma> ty
09:39 < Techknight_> I've a makefile which I use to compile a pandoc document https://pastebin.com/nXA8YgWv but it is one long line which is hard to read and edit...... Is there anyway to break the line?
09:39 < syb0rg> well, plus any other processes containing "ssh" in their name
09:39 < syb0rg> but hey
09:40 < syb0rg> an approximate count
09:40 < Kharma> lol
09:40 < syb0rg> ok add --exact to pgrep and it will behave
09:41 < syb0rg> but you might need sshd, not ssh
09:41 < syb0rg> forget it, I give up! no more linux for me
09:41 < wr> can i filter on debian syslog a specific day, if syslog has 7 files part?
09:42 < Kharma> I can't get mosh to work no matter which ports I open and try.. argg.. I want to try it, seems cool
09:43 < Kharma> kind of like my aventures with mpd >_>
10:06 < mavorsa> is anyone here any good with troubleshooting things like icon themes? there is a theme (actually two of them now) that ive downloaded who's folder icons are not working and i can't seem to figure out why. the folder.png is in its directory and its theme file points to the /places location where it is. i have also updated the icon cache.
10:13 < repys> I am getting from smartmontools this : Read SMART Error Log failed: scsi error aborted command
10:13 < repys> what does that mean?
10:13 < repys> I can't find any help on googl
10:22 < ExtremeFMan> No command 'tupime' found!
10:23 < luke-jr> jeffree: not backdoored, open source firmware, etc
10:24 < ExtremeFMan> sounds like a broken hardware perhaps
10:26 < iodev> luke-jr: Open source firmware ... and moons made of cheese
10:27 < iodev> a fantasy ... just be glad we have proprietary firmware or else atheros/broadcom wifi would NOT work
10:31 < rud0lf> is there a way i can run script every time pulseaudio sink is changed? for example after pluggin headset
10:32 < rud0lf> i use device.description="<friendly-name>" but it's reset every time i re-plug :/
10:35 < repys> any idea?
10:37 < dreadkopp> hey guys. i've got a labelprinter here. page size is set up correctly in cups. when i print a file via 'lp <somefile>' it is printed correctly. when i print from firefox though the page settings seem to be overridden though. ffs about:config print.use_global_printsettings is set to true though... any way to force the printer to always print in defa
10:37 < dreadkopp> ult layout ?
10:37 < luke-jr> iodev: …
10:40 < ExtremeFMan> hard to say what just "scsi error" really means, but it could be a broken drive or an I/O problem etc.
10:48 < bartmon> rud0lf, i'm not sure but AFAIK pulseaudio is integrated with dbus, maybe something  useful there? https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/Documentation/Developer/Clients/DBus/Core/
10:57 < anon9002> My SBC's root HDD has a tendency to disconnect randomly. How can I make the system automatically reboot when this happens?
11:04 < MrElendig> udev rule, systemd unit, polling script
11:04 < dgurney> an even better idea would be to fix the issue properly
11:05 < revel> I don't know, that sounds like a lot of work.
11:05 < MrElendig> indeed
11:09 < BCMM> i bet it's a power issue
11:09 < MrElendig> not unlikely
11:09 < MrElendig> depending on the sbc
11:10 < BCMM> e.g. 2.5" USB HDD and SBC running off a large phone charger, as the voltage drops the hard drive malfunctions before the sbc
11:10 < anon9002> It's hard to fix the issue properly since the SBC is 10000 miles away from me.
11:10 < Dagmar> Seriously.  Fix the actual problem
11:11 < Dagmar> *That* kind of failure will actually screw up the drive
11:12 < MrElendig> 10k miles sounds unlikely
11:13 < BCMM> 10k miles is possible if you measure over the surface of the earth instead of in a straight line
11:17 < ExtremeFMan> what, you don't have a gravity lift going through the planet yet?
11:17 < day> earthlings
11:18 < tomty89> can someone test this command out for me:
11:18 < tomty89> su -c 'id -g; id -g -r'
11:18 < tomty89> if you have zsh it would be great if you can run it with -s /bin/zsh as well
11:18 < BCMM> ExtremeFMan: "gravity lift"? you seem to be implying that we'd use a hole through the middle of the planet for transport, as opposed to for fixing network latency
11:19 < ExtremeFMan> well, doesn't that sound more reasonable?
11:19 < BCMM> i suggest that nobody ever runs commands that start with "su -c" on the request of some guy on IRC, *even if* the command seems perfectly straightforwards
11:20 < ExtremeFMan> lol
11:20 < MrElendig> http://arch.har-ikkje.net/gfx/legit.jpg
11:40 < cmj> like sudo whoami?
11:40 < cmj> weird
11:41 < Armand> How is that "weird" ?
11:52 < rud0lf> i have bash variable $test in form of: abc.def = "Always the same text Variable text"  .. how can i parse "Variable text"?
11:54 < KekSi> what?!
11:54 < KekSi> yourvariable='abc.def = "some text"' < that is your variable declaration?
11:55 < KekSi> and you're trying to extract the stuff between the (double-) quotes?
11:56 < BCMM> rud0lf: you could use sed to get rid of the constant text
11:56 < Night_Elf> echo ${abc.def}|awk -F 'Always the same text' '{print $2}'
11:56 < BCMM> in fact i think in bash there's some sort of rarely-used built-in feature to do taht
11:56 < rud0lf> $test="abc.def = \"Always the same text Variable text\""
11:57 < rud0lf> i'm trying ${test##abc.def \= ....} but it doesn't work
11:57 < Night_Elf> echo ${test}|awk -F 'Always the same text' '{print $2}'
11:58 < rud0lf> thanks
11:58 < Night_Elf> And then you might want to get rid of the last "
11:58 < rud0lf> no need to
11:58 < BCMM> rud0lf: hang on, just to check i've understood your intended syntax correctly: there is an actual = sign *as part of your variable contents*, right?
11:58 < Night_Elf> So it worked for you the above ?
11:58 < BCMM> and also " marks?
11:58 < rud0lf> BCMM: yes
11:58 < Night_Elf> BCMM: it seems like that, yes
11:59 < rud0lf> Night_Elf: worked like a charm, thank you again
12:00 < Night_Elf> Oh ok. Cheers then :)
12:00 < rud0lf> Night_Elf: right, i need last quotation mark removed :P
12:00 < Night_Elf> lol
12:01 < BCMM> rud0lf: this can also be done in pure bash ${test/abc.def = \"Always the same text/} is a near-solution (leave a final " in though)
12:14 < yakiza> Anyone has experience with Juniper STRM
12:15 < dAnjou> hi, I'm trying to use a tool that reads some config exclusively from a file path passed via argument. Problem is that I want to generate this config from a template dynamically. Is there a way to create a "fake" file with a real path that only exists for as long as the tool is executing?
12:16 < dgs> why not create a real file that only exists as long as the tool is executing?
12:17 < jim> yakiza, you should just ask your question... the more informative details you throw in, the more people can figure out whether they can help;
12:19 < Tazmain> Hi all, what are the chances I can recover my data from a ntfs drive that I accidently executed dd on for about 10 seconds ?
12:19 < dAnjou> dgs: or that. Is there a solution that I don't have to script myself?
12:20 < dgs> not that i know of... but that doesn't mean much
12:21 < dgs> i'd just create a file in tmp with a random name -  config files are tiny normally so i'd prob not even bother deleting them afterwards and just rm via cron or something
12:21 < jim> Tazmain, sorry that heppened... and I don't know of a way
12:22 < Tazmain> jim, well seems I can get some raw files
12:24 < ananke> Tazmain: photorec/testdisk
12:24 < jim> Tazmain, doesn't do much good now... but for the future, you might prefer file copying rather than imaging
12:24 < Tazmain> ananke, that doesn't keep folder structure. but will try
12:24 < MrElendig> Tazmain: EasyRecovery or similar
12:24 < Tazmain> jim,  I was creating a bootable usb
12:24 < Tazmain> o/ MrElendig
12:24 < jim> 'oh ok
12:24 < Tazmain> dd did a good job of making sure some of the data is really lost
12:25 < kubast2> Yo I had to check mainline kernel I uninstalled it and now I can't boot to gdm
12:25 < MrElendig> it's not lost, just the ntfs headers that are gone
12:25 < Tazmain> MrElendig, usually when that is the case I still see all the data, or of the $MFT is corrupt, but in this case, I am only seeing like 10%
12:26 < x45> sup
12:26 < ananke> Tazmain: indeed, it doesn't. the reason being is because you wiped the MFT.
12:27 < Tazmain> MrElendig, unless I am missing something about how that file system works
12:27 < MrElendig> 10 sec is not time enough to wipe the entire disk
12:27 < MrElendig> so just the header data is gone
12:27 < ananke> Tazmain: you can try using testdisk's 'repair mft' option
12:27 < Tazmain> for 500GB on a 5600rpm drive it shouldn't be
12:28 < kubast2> How can I force a dkms recompile or something from recovery shell?
12:28 < Tazmain> MrElendig, if the header data is gone, that means I can reconstruct it and get all the data back right ?
12:29 < ananke> said 'header' data is MFT. and that's what holds your directory structure.
12:30 < Tazmain> if that is completely gone ?
12:30 < ananke> it's as if you were ignoring my earlier comments
12:30 < MrElendig> there are tools that will go trough looking for the data themself
12:31 < Tazmain> ananke, I was reading test disks mft repair in the wiki, and it said it will use the MFT backup
12:32 < Tazmain> MrElendig, but it will lose the file names right? that is what I have mostly seen happens
12:34 < Tazmain> ananke, I will try out testdisk and see if it can fix it.
12:34 < Pentode> Tazmain, what it's going to do is attempt and guess and produce a table that will at the most have the correct boundaries for some of the files on the disk
12:35 < Pentode> what did you over-write, and with what?
12:36 < BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
12:36 < mavorsa> morning fred, morning bob
12:36 < MrElendig> the commercial tools are much better than testdisk
12:36 < shrdlu68> Wouldn't fsck help if one first tried to reconstruct the partition table?
12:36 < Tazmain> Pentode, so on the disk I had a fedora .iso that I wanted to use to create a bootable flash, so the HDD was /dev/sdi, and I accidently went and executed dd if=./fedora.iso of=/dev/sdi && sync
12:37 < Pentode> ugh
12:37 < Pentode> how long did it go on for?
12:37 < Tazmain> MrElendig, the commericial ones I know of , are meh , like O&O and , stellar pheonix, and
12:37 < shrdlu68> I did that once too.
12:37 < Tazmain> Pentode, roughly 10 seconds
12:37 < MrElendig> Tazmain: easyrecovery
12:37 < Night_Elf> something I wonder... I have the ip address of 'lo' interface be 127.0.0.1 which is standard. When I ping 127.0.1.1 it responds. And so do 127.0.1.5 or 127.0.13.54 or anything. Why is that? Is that normal ?
12:38 < shrdlu68> I was used to my laptop's HDD being assigned sda, then it got assigned sdb. A rite of passage.
12:38 < MrElendig> Night_Elf: yes
12:38 < MrElendig> Night_Elf: 127.anything will route to yourself
12:38 < Tazmain> MrElendig, ontrack ?
12:38 < MrElendig> Tazmain: yes
12:39 < Tazmain> okay let me see
12:39 < MrElendig> costs a small fortune ofcourse
12:39 < Night_Elf> MrElendig: I see.
12:39 < Tazmain> no kidding
12:39 < Tazmain> like $170
12:39 < MrElendig> could test it on a small subset of your data though
12:39 < MrElendig> for free
12:39 < Tazmain> yeah see if it works first
12:40 < MrElendig> wouldn't be suprised if a pip install pip have been involved
12:41 < ananke> Night_Elf: it's an entire /8 network. look at the subnet mask
12:41 < Pentode> Tazmain, well testdisk is always worth a try. i've been successful recovering simple things like partition tables but when it comes to over-writing the whole beginning of the disk you may just get a big mess that you'll have to wade through to get anything useful out of.
12:42 < MrElendig> bha wrong channel
12:42 < Pentode> there is software thats good at this but good luck getting ahold of it :|
12:42 < Tazmain> MrElendig, lol well done
12:43 < Tazmain> Pentode, if formatted a disk before and recovered everything, even after 3 formats, but this dd, i've seem to have met my match
12:43 < Pentode> yeah the problem is the format didn't over-write anything
12:44 < Tazmain> it cleared the partition table
12:44 < ananke> 'format' and 'partition table' are not the same thing
12:45 < Tazmain> ananke, wait, a 'full format' recreates the parition table right,and a quick format, just marks everything as free space ?
12:48 < ananke> Tazmain: not sure what 'full format' you're talking about. formatting is the act of laying out structures of a given filesystem. partitioning is adjusting the content of partition table. they are NOT the same nor interchangable. however, some operating systems/tools may perform both operations for you at the same time, such as diskutil on osx
12:49 < ananke> as to your original problem, your only hope to recover directory structure is via repairing MFT. if that fails, you're SOL and the only thing you'll get is data without metadata
12:56 < Tazmain> ananke, using diskpart in windows, or gnome-disks with the over write with 0's option -> AFAIK that is a full format?
12:57 < Pentode> basically
12:57 < Tazmain> ananke, the only was sectors on the disk can be created is at manufacturing right?
12:58 < Tazmain> like if you subject the disk to a magnet
12:58 < Pentode> yes, true low-level formats aren't done by the end user anymore.
12:58 < Tazmain> no way to still do it ?
12:59 < Pentode> i dont think the newer controllers will even let you
12:59 < Tazmain> can't you do it with parted magic live boot ?
12:59 < Night_Elf> I remember this program of long ago. Spinrite
12:59 < Pentode> but i don't know enough about them to say that for sure
12:59 < Tazmain> Night_Elf, I have it :p
12:59 < Pentode> Night_Elf, yeah i remember spinrite.
12:59 < Tazmain> I still use it
12:59 < Night_Elf> It was a jewel Tazmain, Pentode
12:59 < Night_Elf> It works on modern disks too ?
13:00 < Tazmain> yeah.
13:00 < Tazmain> just not SSD
13:00 < Pentode> yeah but modern spinrite is _not_ the same as the old tool
13:00 < Night_Elf> Oh... I need to check my floppy disks. I know I have it still, just too long covered with dust.
13:01 < Pentode> it recovers missing / damaged sector data
13:01 < Tazmain> modern one? They still updating it ?
13:01 < Pentode> it's not actually formatting the disk in any way
13:01 < Night_Elf> I see
13:01 < Pentode> Tazmain, spinrite used to be able to do full low level formats
13:03 < Pentode> Tazmain, i think the last release was like 20 years ago or so
13:03 < Pentode> maybe a little less not sure
13:03 < Night_Elf> That's the time I remember it. Around '98 - 2000
13:04 < Tazmain> Pentode, formats? I don't remember that. It can do a surface refresh ??
13:04 < Night_Elf> It did all under the sun that was possible to do without you using a screwdriver on a disk.
13:05 < Night_Elf> I remember settings to change sector sizes and all.
13:06 < Pentode> it "reads" weak bits and re-writes them.
13:06 < Tazmain> Night_Elf, are you sure you are not thinking of parted magic ?
13:06 < Pentode> Tazmain, spinrite has a richer and weirder and more fragmented history than most people know.
13:06 < Tazmain> because that live boot can do that, and do a secure erase, for SSD as well
13:07 < Pentode> it was originally just for interleaving
13:07 < Tazmain> well parted magic can still do that
13:07 < Pentode> now it's just for "resurfacing" i guess you would call it?
13:08 < Night_Elf> I was introduced to spinwrite around 1994 or 1995. No, there was no parted magic back then. And that small program that could fit on a few kilobytes in a floppy disk, is hard to forget or mistake with something else.
13:08 < Tazmain> ah okay
13:08 < Tazmain> I don't know the version from that year
13:09 < Tazmain> I think mine is like 2007 ?
13:09 < Tazmain> version 6, 2004
13:09 < Pentode> wikipedia says 2004 was the last release i guess
13:09 < Night_Elf> That thing was seriously jaw dropping.
13:09 < Pentode> it was a godsend with old MFM encoded ESDI disks
13:09  * Pentode twitches
13:09 < Tazmain> people in #hardware told me it was BS eitherway
13:10 < Night_Elf> Well software is software and hardware is hardware. Software will always do what the hardware allows, so there's that.
13:11 < Pentode> yeah well something that was useful decades ago was re-invented for more modern hardware and became less popular / useful.
13:11 < Pentode> so you'd probably be hard pressed to find someone younger than 30 that thinks spinrite is worth anything. ;)
13:12 < Tazmain> Pentode, I am younger than 30, and I think spinrite is gold. Used it a bunch of times, to repair a drive
13:12 < Tazmain> it just can't do usb drives :(
13:13 < Pentode> yeah well it relies on residual magnetic stuffs still being there to fix it
13:13 < Pentode> non of that with solid state drives. :(
13:23 < Tazmain> yeah
13:23 < Tazmain> or usb  externals
13:27 < rocketmagnet> hi everyone, i have a strange isssue, i just shutdown -h now and now my grub isn't shown up anymore or grib at all, all i get is error: unkown filesystem\nEntering rescue mode...\grub rescue:
13:27 < rocketmagnet> what am i supposted to do ?
13:27 < SuperSeriousCat> What did you do before you shut down?
13:27 < rocketmagnet> nothign special
13:28 < peetaur2> rocketmagnet: find out what you did... or just repair it like https://pastebin.com/raw/GfeysRFu
13:28 < rocketmagnet> what can cuase this kind of error ? and how to correct it ? maybe just run cairo linux and make a complete hdN test to check for errors
13:29 < MRd1> ...
13:29 < rocketmagnet> peetaur2: i'm no able to get into a console
13:29 < peetaur2> example of what you could do to cause it... you could install with lvm and mdadm on ubuntu 12.04 and put it on a GPT partition table without a bios_grub...the installer would happily create this completely wrong setup, and it would seem to wokr...then some day later when you apt-get upgrade, it updates grub which runs grub-install, which errors out, and if you reboot, it is dead.
13:29 < peetaur2> I don't know if newer releases do the same, but wouldn't doubt it. :)
13:31 < peetaur2> rocketmagnet: you use rescue media to get a console
13:31 < rocketmagnet> how
13:32 < rocketmagnet> i understand, does the debian install usb disk would be enouth ?
13:32 < peetaur2> the ideal media is the installer you used for that distro release
13:33 < peetaur2> assuming it is sane ... like you can enter a special rescue mode, or you can hit ctrl+alt+f# to get a shell during the install (the debian one is bad at this...you have to get to the disk partitioning step of the install before the shell will have any useful CLI utilities...but luckily they are one with a special rescue mode)
13:33 < RebelCoder> Hello people. If anyone is using minicom, please advise. I am using minicom to do some manual steps to upgrade a firmware on my board. I want to find the way to automate it, maybe to run minicom -file path - settings -mods... etc... any help would be much appreciated.
13:34 < rocketmagnet> now i'm in rescue mode, what am i supposted to do know ?
13:35 < rocketmagnet> peetaur2: ^
13:35 < peetaur2> get to shell
13:35 < rocketmagnet> ok
13:35 < rocketmagnet> done
13:35 < peetaur2> and then follow my link or some less expert alternative
13:35 < peetaur2> at least try it before you give up and try some easy thing like the grub repair live dvd thing
13:35 < peetaur2> those things just have magic buttons that fail withotu saying any details so you remain lost
13:35 < peetaur2> learning the raw stuff is valuable forever
13:38 < rocketmagnet> how to check all filesystem that are not mounted for errors ?
13:39 < peetaur2> use fsck on each one
13:39 < peetaur2> probably add -f otherwise it just skips because of timestamps and mount count not being high enough
13:40 < peetaur2> and you could do the everyone else recommended way of manually answering y to each question even though you have no idea what it is, to somehow have a better chance of not corrupting things ...
13:40 < peetaur2> or do it my way and have a backup and just use -y so you don't answer a billion yesses for no reason, and then check out /lost+found/ after to see a bunch of missing things, and also could look other ways like find some 0 byte files or compare to backup
13:41 < rocketmagnet> i work on another pc, i'can't copy paste the code you gave me
13:41 < peetaur2> ext3 is great sometimes...if you use -y, you end up with an empty fs...I think ext4 only does that if you disabled the journal
13:41 < peetaur2> *you can end up with an empty fs .... not always  or even often
13:44 < rocketmagnet> but how can such an error appear suddenly just after a reboot ??
13:44 < ice9> is it possible to set port in resolv.conf?
13:44 < rocketmagnet> and what's ther error about it
13:45 < peetaur2> depends on lots of things... most likely is something like there was data in flight, in volatile storage like RAM, and it was partially written...then you hard rebooted or crashed, and it wasn't ever completed. Journaling is supposed to fix that, but there are cases when it doesn't.
13:45 < peetaur2> and your bootloader should not have been affectd...see what I wrote about ubuntu and GPT for an example where an invalid configuration looks like it works until an update and then fails
13:46 < peetaur2> the bootloader would only be affected if you were using grub-install during a hard reboot
13:48 < rocketmagnet> when i try fsck.ext3 /dev/sda1 i get "superblock invalid"
13:49 < rocketmagnet> is there a tool that checks all my partitions for errors and corrects them if posile ?
13:50 < TimDix> Hello, I've got a server which I can SSH into, but is not responding to HTTP requests. However, if I SSH onto the server, I can curl the site and it runs properly, so the webserver seems to be fine. I started looking at the firewall, and that appears to be running correctly as well... suggestions on how I can troubleshoot this further to identify why I cannot connect?
14:01 < Night_Elf> TimDix: It could be helpful:  tcptraceroute website.domain.com  80
14:01 < Night_Elf> Or any other port of not port 80
14:02 < Night_Elf> if*
14:05 < TimDix> Night_Elf: Thanks for the suggestion, that appears to be running correctly as well.
14:06 < TimDix> I've pasted a few things here... does anything jump out as potentially problematic? https://paste.linux.community/view/68cd7139
14:09 < TimDix> Fixed! (kinda) I turned off the firewall and now it's working.
14:09 < TimDix> So, I'll work on troubleshooting that further.
14:10 < enelar> Guys, i have simple question about systemd that i've failed to google for myself. Is there exist or how would i setup target that occur once user logged in graphical
14:10 < Night_Elf> That !Z suggests that's something to do with active blocking so probably it is a firewall issue.
14:11 < enelar> I want to reconnect bluetooth each time i've logged in, cause bluetooth.service fail to do so by himself
14:13 < yakiza> Hello fellas! i  have JUNIPER STRM that for some reason it doesnt store or it drops the NAT logs not sure what exactly but when i try to search i just get nothing
14:13 < ananke> yakiza: contact juniper's technical support
14:13 < yakiza> ananke:  is it you? my ananke ?
14:14 < ananke> last time I checked, I wasn't owned by anybody
14:14 < yakiza> hahahahha slackware ananke ?
14:16 < TyrfingMjolnir> What are the options to github?
14:17 < yakiza> what? TyrfingMjolnir ?>
14:17 < Night_Elf> Many say gitlab
14:17 < TyrfingMjolnir> Then again what will it give me other than sshd? The HTML layer?
14:17 < AE-35> TyrfingMjolnir: bitbucket
14:17 < TyrfingMjolnir> hg?
14:18 < TyrfingMjolnir> Or does bitbucket support git now?
14:18 < AE-35> hg
14:25 < Pentode> enelar, im not 100% sure but i think you just have to symlink the service in /etc/systemd/system/graphical.target.wants/
14:26 < Pentode> at the very least thats the right direction, though. there may be one more step to actually make it work im not sure
14:26 < Pentode> i still need to familiarize myself with systemd a bit better but i don't like change. :/
14:30 < triceratux> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/3665176/posts
14:31 < gnulligan> hey guys, I need some help :)
14:31 < gnulligan> I'm setting up a triple boot machine
14:31 < gnulligan> zorin + windows 10 + clonezilla
14:33 < gnulligan> I set up windows to use half the disk space during install, made a 300mb partition for clonezilla in disk management (windows) and then rebooted with zorin and made just a root partition from the end of the disk. The remaining space is now the backup partition
14:33 < gnulligan> zorin = xenial (16.04 LTS + custom DE)
14:34 < SuperSeriousCat> Do you boot into clonezilla?
14:34 < SuperSeriousCat> Is it an OS?
14:34 < gnulligan> are you asking me what clonezilla is? lol
14:34 < SuperSeriousCat> Yes
14:35 < gnulligan> so I installed zorin/xenial with the bootloader written to the linux root partition
14:35 < gnulligan> instead of to the device
14:35 < gnulligan> because I'm trying to have all the boot options in NVRAM
14:35 < gnulligan> (since I'm using UEFI)
14:36 < gnulligan> meaning, I want the clonezilla grub, the zorin grub and windows BCD as UEFI entries
14:36 < gnulligan> clonezilla grub will be default, and will have entries for the other two as well as quick backup options
14:37 < gnulligan> the thing is, I installed clonezilla and zorin/"ubuntu" differently
14:37 < gnulligan> I downloaded clonezilla as a ZIP file, and extracted it to the clonezilla partition
14:37 < gnulligan> BUT I installed ubuntu using the live image
14:38 < gnulligan> now, there's only two entries in my NVRAM, clonezilla and windows
14:38 < Night_Elf> gnulligan: After you install all, did you run update-grub ? I am not sure but I think that searches and finds for partitions with an os installed and places those in the selection menu.
14:38 < gnulligan> yeah I
14:38 < gnulligan> I've heard of that, but I'm using a custom grub.cfg
14:39 < gnulligan> I'm not sure if update-grub will overwrite that or not
14:39 < Night_Elf> Well you can save that custom file, update-grub, and then see to incorporate the custom pieces into the generated file.
14:39 < gnulligan> hmmmmmm
14:39 < gnulligan> I see
14:40 < gnulligan> ok, since clonezilla grub works (and that's the grub I want to be default) I'll just boot into clonezilla, open a shell, and run update-grub
14:41 < rocketmagnet> when my mainboard tells me i've an sata_12, sata_34. and sata_45, where does i have to plug in the cd writer ? and does it matter in what order i pass my harddisks ?
14:41 < gnulligan> after making a backup from the windows partition (clonezilla is on fat32)
14:41 < gnulligan> ok I'll try that, afk
14:41 < TimDix> So, I know it's an issue with iptables, but I still cannot access this server, I've added the following: https://paste.linux.community/view/9a5ec759 - suggestions on how to troubleshoot further?
14:42 < TimDix> (service iptables stop, will let me access the server. service iptables start and then I cannot)
14:44 < ananke> TimDix: we'd need to see where this fits with the rest of the rules
14:50 < dnanib> TimDix: is this about port 80 access?
14:50 < gnulligan> wait a second...
14:50 < gnulligan> I just realized something
14:50 < gnulligan> update-grub won't fix this
14:50 < TimDix> ananke: What's a command that'll provide the information that would be helpful?
14:51 < TimDix> dnanib: yes
14:51 < gnulligan> because, I need all OS entries to be in the UEFI NVRAM
14:51 < gnulligan> ok I think I know what happened
14:51 < gnulligan> UEFI found clonezilla because I installed clonezilla to a fat32 FS
14:52 < gnulligan> so when I boot up, if I check the UEFI, it gives options for windows and clonezilla
14:52 < gnulligan> BUT I installed ubuntu to ext
14:52 < gnulligan> ext4
14:52 < TimDix> IS this "normal"? https://paste.linux.community/view/fa073b3f
14:52 < ExtremeFMan> should I get a server from a provider, whose support says "we can't open Internet links"..?
14:53 < gnulligan> I bet the UEFI can only read FAT filesystems
14:53 < BCMM> ExtremeFMan: it sounds like they use IE, so no
14:54 < BCMM> gnulligan: if we're talking about an EFI support partition on an internal hard disk, basically yes
14:54 < ExtremeFMan> it's just that they are a major service provider in the server sector
14:55 < ananke> TimDix: show us the full content of /etc/sysconfig/iptables
14:55 < BCMM> ExtremeFMan: worth noting that a lot of web hosting "services" are just resellers, and may have no technical expertise because they need none
14:55 < BCMM> was there some context to TimDix's question before i connected?
14:56 < BCMM> TimDix: presumably you're trying to achieve NAT, and something isn't working?
14:56 < dnanib> TimDix: then referring to this: https://paste.linux.community/view/9a5ec759
14:56 < TimDix> BCMM: Web server, I get connection refused when iptables is running, webserver works fine when I disable it.
14:57 < TimDix> anake: as requested: https://paste.linux.community/view/86fac55d
14:57 < Night_Elf> His webserver is accessible from localhost, but not from the public internet.
14:57 < dnanib> iptables -A OUTPUT -p tcp --sport 80 -m conntrack --ctstate ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT <- this rule prevents the SYN_ACK part of the 3-way handshake from going out (I think)
14:57 < dnanib> assuming the default for the table is DROP/REJECT
14:57 < BCMM> TimDix: what is your goal here? did you add those rules to iptables or did you find it like that?
14:58 < BCMM> oh right wow i didn't see the pastebin... the NAT stuff is probably not the issue here to say the least
14:58 < TimDix> The server crashed when diskspace reached 0 bytes. I'm just trying to get it up again. I inherited this server, so I'm trying to figure it out.
14:58 < TimDix> I'm also, (as I'm sure you've figured out) not very good at this.
14:58 < BCMM> TimDix: what's the layout of the network here? is there any reason the server would be performing NAT itself?
14:58 < g1itch> i recently blew away my gnome keyring due to a password change, and ever since then chrome seems to not keep me signed into sites. Could this be related?
15:00 < TimDix> BCMM: I don't know. These servers sit in the back room. It connects to internal servers and is one of the only servers exposed to the public. I'm not sure if that's why they did what they did.
15:00 < TimDix> The person who set it up... quit.
15:00 < BCMM> g1itch: chrome can use gnome-keyring for password storage, but i don't think it uses it to lock up cookies
15:00 < TimDix> I'm sorry, I'm not being very helpful.
15:00 < BCMM> g1itch: do you really mean you can't stay logged in to stuff, or is it just that chrome isn't filling in your passwords when you do eventually get logged out?
15:02 < plexigras> i have a bunch of folders in the current directory and i want to find all folders that don't have files that contain a word
15:02 < plexigras> how do i best do this?
15:02 < g1itch> BCMM twitter for example, i was able to open my browser every morning and already be logged in
15:02 < g1itch> and now it actually has me type in my creds every day even if i select 'remember me'
15:02 < g1itch> twitter is just an example, happening with a bunch of sites
15:02 < TimDix> dnanib: thanks for your suggestion. I got that command from here: https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/iptables-essentials-common-firewall-rules-and-commands - "Allow all incoming http traffic"
15:03 < TimDix> dnanib: How would you suggest modifying it to allow the SYN_ACK?
15:03 < BCMM> plexigras: ooh, that's an interesting one... getting all *files* without a string is straightforwards, but that's not the same...
15:06 < plexigras> is there something like dirname that only returns the first/root dir?
15:06 < plexigras> so dirname a/b/c returns a
15:07 < gnulligan> BCMM: I thought so. How do I fix this lol?
15:07 < mcdnl> TimDix: does your box have firewall-cmd (firewalld) or it's just a pure iptables?
15:07 < BCMM> gnulligan: i'm afraid i wasn't around for the original question, what's going on?
15:07 < mcdnl> or ufw
15:07 < BCMM> gnulligan: i was just answering about filesystems uefi firmware (typically) supports
15:08 < gnulligan> ohhh ok
15:08 < BCMM> plexigras: if there's no other good solution, you could repeatedly invoke dirname until it no longer modifies the output
15:08 < gnulligan> well it's a long story lol... I'm trying to set up a windows + ubuntu + clonezilla triple boot
15:08 < BCMM> or rather, until it returns .
15:09 < BCMM> gnulligan: why would you *install* clonezilla?
15:09 < gnulligan> on uefi, and I want to have ALL the OSes visible in the UEFI NVRAM for redundancy
15:09 < TimDix> mcdnl, I'm not sure, I tried a few things, and I don't see firewalld
15:09 < mcdnl> TimDix: run firewall-cmd as root, does the binary exist?
15:09 < TimDix> Nope, I tried that and command not found
15:09 < mcdnl> ok
15:09 < TimDix> tried which on both commands as well
15:09 < TimDix> and checked services
15:09 < gnulligan> BCMM: I'm using a custom clonezilla grub that lets me press a key and instantly backup the whole disk to a separate partition
15:09 < TimDix> Anywhere else to check?
15:09 < BCMM> gnulligan: huh that's actually fair enough
15:10 < mcdnl> curl localhost from the machine with iptables up does work?
15:10 < gnulligan> :)
15:10 < TimDix> Ok, another thing... perhaps... I see iptables and ip6tables... any chance they're conflicting with each other?
15:10 < TimDix> mcdnl: Yes
15:10 < gnulligan> so I'm trying to have all entries in NVRAM for redundancy
15:10 < TimDix> wget locally works.
15:10 < gnulligan> if grub fails, windows is still there, and if windows BCD fails, grub is there
15:10 < mcdnl> they should'nt interfere unless you're using ipv6 to connect from one server to another
15:10 < ellyacht> man
15:10 < BCMM> gnulligan: well i dunno how nvram works, honestly. but i've got a working windows/debian dual boot
15:11 < mcdnl> if i got it right, what you have looks like a load balancer or reverse proxy
15:11 < BCMM> gnulligan: oh i see, you don't want to chainload them all from grub, you want to be able to select them individually from your firmware's boot menu?
15:11 < ellyacht> please sumone tell me how to turn off the bluettoth and wifi modules on my laptop running linuxmint 19
15:11 < gnulligan> BCMM: yes and no
15:11 < mcdnl> and you have problems getting the whateveritis to the backend servers
15:11 < mcdnl> ?
15:12 < gnulligan> I want to have grub be the default entry in the boot menu, and to give me the option to boot from wherever I want (windows, clonezilla, ubuntu)
15:12 < BCMM> ellyacht: rfkill
15:12 < TimDix> mcdnl: was that directed at me? (backend servers/load balancer/reverse proxy question)
15:12 < gnulligan> but I ALSO want the clonezilla and windows entries in the firmware menu as well
15:12 < gnulligan> so if ubuntu updates and changes grub, windows is still there
15:13 < BCMM> gnulligan: i'm afraid i wouldn't know about that, afaik my mobo doesn't have a proper menu for that so i just use grub
15:13 < gnulligan> if grub and ubuntu get nuked, I still have clonezilla and windows separate
15:13 < ellyacht> BCMM: this is what it gave me
15:13 < gnulligan> BCMM: I see...
15:13 < ellyacht> BCMM: ID TYPE      DEVICE    SOFT      HARD
15:13 < ellyacht>  0 bluetooth hci0   blocked unblocked
15:13 < ellyacht>  1 wlan      phy0   blocked unblocked
15:13 < mcdnl> yes TimDix
15:13 < TimDix> I don't believe we're using any of those on this.
15:14 < BCMM> gnulligan: what was the filesystem issue though? do you actually have a gpt-partitioned disk with a fat esp on the first partition?
15:14 < mcdnl> yeah it was just a guess, i havent read everything you said so i'm not sure what is your problem
15:14 < TimDix> we have haproxy and varnish on our production servers... but that isn't on here.
15:14 < BCMM> ellyacht: try `rfkill block all`
15:16 < gnulligan> BCMM: yes, but in the ubuntu installer (since I didn't want to overwrite the windows ESP) I chose manual setup, made a single 100GB EXT4 partition, mounted as root, and when it asked where to install the bootloader I entered that same ext4 partition
15:16 < ellyacht> BCMM: kk then restart? the physical lights on the front of my laptop are constantly on for the bt and wifi unless i go into bios
15:17 < TimDix> We hired a sysadmin. He came in, set up this server, didn't document anything, spent half of his week 'working on it', because it crashes several times a week, and then he quits... and now it's my problem. I really just want to start over on this thing.
15:17 < BCMM> gnulligan: i have no idea how to make ubuntu in particular play nice with uefi. but in general you can just use the ESP windows creates for everything, since it usually has a load of free space on it
15:18 < BCMM> gnulligan: it's worth double-checking whether ubuntu understands its trying to install in uefi mode. do you know if you installed grub-pc or grub-efi?
15:18 < mcdnl> ok i think i got it now
15:18 < mcdnl> can you show me your actual /etc/sysconfig/iptables
15:18 < TimDix> Did I not? one sec
15:18 < Truk_> hello i have /bin/bash: source: No such file or directory when i do source $HOME/.profile
15:18 < mcdnl> i've seen one from before
15:19 < TimDix> https://paste.linux.community/view/86fac55d
15:19 < mcdnl> but i read something about adding two lines
15:19 < Truk_> whereas the file exists
15:19 < BCMM> ellyacht: as i understand it, restarting will clear rfkill status
15:19 < gnulligan> BCMM: I don't know
15:19 < gnulligan> that might be the issue
15:19 < gnulligan> how do I check?
15:19 < BCMM> ellyacht: what does `rfkill list` show now?
15:19 < BCMM> gnulligan: so does ubuntu boot at all, currently?
15:19 < mcdnl> TimDix: there's no accept on port 80, and you have a reject so everything that isnt ssh or 3260 or 25567 will be rejected with host unreachable
15:20 < gnulligan> BCMM: no, there's no entry in firmware
15:20 < gnulligan> I might be able to get into the clonezilla grub and run grub-update
15:20 < BCMM> gnulligan: oh and just to check my understanding, this is a single disk, and the windows installer created the original gpt partition table and ESP?
15:20 < mcdnl> did you execute the iptables -A INPUT -p tcp -m multiport... from before?
15:20 < gnulligan> BCMM: exactly
15:20 < mcdnl> https://paste.linux.community/view/9a5ec759
15:20 < mcdnl> this
15:21 < TimDix> Yes, multiple times... one second...
15:21 < gnulligan> if I did grub-update though, that won't fix the firmware not finding it
15:22 < BCMM> gnulligan: if you're doing grub-update, you've already managed to chroot the unbootable install, right?
15:22 < mcdnl> TimDix: -A adds the rule to the end of the chain, so if you have a reject before it, it will be of no sue
15:22 < dnanib> TimDix: ref this: https://paste.linux.community/view/86fac55d
15:22 < BCMM> gnulligan: check if you've got grub-pc or grub-efi installed
15:22 < dnanib> There is no state = NEW ACCEPT in INPUT
15:22 < gnulligan> BCMM: no I didn't chroot, I'm talking about the clonezilla grub
15:22 < dnanib> for port 80
15:22 < BCMM> gnulligan: oh right
15:22 < dnanib> iptables -I INPUT -m state --state NEW --dport 80 -j ACCEPT
15:23 < mcdnl> that should do it
15:23 < BCMM> gnulligan: it seems like ubuntu installs a bootloader based on the mode the install cd (or usb) was booted with
15:23 < gnulligan> BCMM: I thought so. Let me try to reboot into the usb again and find out what it boots as
15:23 < gnulligan> brb
15:23 < BCMM> gnulligan: these days, install media can usually be booted in legacy (bios) or EFI mode, meaning it creates two entries in your firmware's "choose boot device" thingy
15:23 < mcdnl> to accept the syn_ack, then the rest of the flow goes through the first rule, -A INPUT -m state --state RELATED,ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT
15:23 < BCMM> so, do you know how you booted the ubuntu installer?
15:24 < TimDix> Ok, I'm now thoroughly confused why those previous commands didn't work, because as you pointed out, they werne't in the iptables... they're there now, one moment.
15:24 < gnulligan> BCMM: I WAS WONDERING WHY THE USB WOULD SHOW UP WITH THREE ENTRIES IN MY BIOS LOL
15:24 < gnulligan> THANK YOU HAHA
15:24 < BCMM> gnulligan: wait, *three*?
15:24 < BCMM> gnulligan: yeah some firmware is hopelessly uninformative about that
15:25 < mcdnl> TimDix: paste your *actual* /etc/sysconfig/iptables
15:25 < TimDix> mcdnl, dnanib: That's working now, Thank you both so much for your help!
15:25 < mcdnl> aight
15:25 < mcdnl> save the changes
15:25 < gnulligan> it says "BIOS:USB" "UEFI:USB" and "UEFI:USBpartition1"
15:25 < gnulligan> I might have done bios before
15:25 < BCMM> gnulligan: oh, lemme guess: "name of usb manufacturer", "uefi: name of usb manufacturer" and "uefi: ubuntu version.whatever"?
15:25 < BCMM> oh
15:26 < mcdnl> TimDix: does /etc/iptables/rules.v4 exist?
15:26 < gnulligan> I'll try UEFI:USB
15:26 < BCMM> gnulligan: well i don't get why there's a usbpartition1 and usb... but that probably doesn't matter
15:26 < gnulligan> brb
15:26 < TimDix> mcdnl: current /etc/sysconfig/iptables
15:26 < TimDix> https://paste.linux.community/view/c8fa6033
15:26 < BCMM> gnulligan: how it will usually work is that there is an mbr on the usb for bios systems, and also the main fs is fat and has a /EFI/ directory for uefi machines
15:27 < TimDix> mcdnl: /etc/iptables does not exist
15:27 < dnanib> That is not good, TimDix
15:27 < dnanib> Just run iptables-save
15:27 < dnanib> Are you on an RHEL/derivative machine?
15:27 < TimDix> dnanib: Is that different than /etc/init.d/iptables save?
15:27 < gnulligan> AHAH ok everything looks different when I boot in uefi mode
15:28 < gnulligan> higher resolution etc
15:28 < dnanib> TimDix: probably the same thing. But your paste.linux is showing something totally different from what we have been discussing
15:28 < TimDix> dnanib: Red Hat Enterprise Linux Server release 6.10 (Santiago)
15:28 < gnulligan> interesting
15:28 < TimDix> dnanib: yeah, I'm really confused by that as well... trying to sort it out, I'm sorry if I provided misleading information to troubleshoot.
15:28 < BCMM> gnulligan: (there's a common misconception that efi boot is only possible with gpt partitions, but that's only definitively true for windows. almost all firmware will read /EFI/ directories from the first partition on MBR-partitioned removable media, and a lot will do it for internal disks too.)
15:29 < dnanib> TimDix: you said you now have a working configuration. Just run iptables-save and keep a copy of that. :-) Rest we will sort out later.
15:29 < gnulligan> BCMM: huh didn't know that
15:29 < winsoff> Got a 2006 beater laptop that someone wants me to spruce up for them. Any recommendations on good looking, fast operating systems that are basically only going to be used for running firefox?
15:29 < TimDix> dnanib: Yes, it's saved now.
15:29 < TimDix> The rest... I'm going to kill with fire.
15:29 < BCMM> gnulligan: and, of course, any firmware should read /EFI/ directories from iso9660 filesystems with no partition table at all
15:30 < BCMM> gnulligan: yeah hardware initialisation is a bit different in uefi. you're probably seeing the bootloader at native resolution or something
15:31 < mcdnl> TimDix: iptables-save doesnt save by itself
15:31 < gnulligan> there's an "install alongside other oses" option
15:31 < gnulligan> omg
15:31 < gnulligan> so much easier
15:31 < BCMM> well if it's a fresh ubuntu install, no customisation, it's probably still easiest to just reinstall ubuntu unless your usb is, like, really slow
15:31 < dnanib> iptables-save > iptables.saved.on.22.06.2018 :-)
15:31 < BCMM> rather than fix the existing isntall
15:31 < mcdnl> it outputs what you need to write to the iptables save file
15:31 < gnulligan> BCMM: I think I'll do that
15:31 < BCMM> good luck!
15:31 < gnulligan> BCMM: TYVM!
15:31 < mcdnl> on debian based systems its stored in /etc/iptables/rules.v4
15:31 < gnulligan> :D
15:31 < BCMM> gnulligan: np!
15:31 < ALowther> I ssh'd into a remote host, added myself to a group and it didn't register so that I could see it with the 'groups' command until I exited the session and ssh'd back in. I am just curious as to why/how it happened this way?
15:32 < mcdnl> for rhel i dont know, probably it's in /etc/sysconfig/iptables but better check it out
15:35 < BCMM> ALowther: as i understand it, group membership is a property of a process, that is applied to your login shell when you log-in. but i'm not too certain how it actually works.
15:36 < backandforth> Hi, is using the http_proxy envionr ment variable to set a proxy a security concern (e.g., other programs running as that user could it's that environment variable)?
15:36 < BCMM> ALowther: i do know that you can workaround the need to make a new ssh connection by doing `su yourusername`
15:36 < BCMM> (su isn't just for becoming root! su yourself lets you log in again, as yourself)
15:36 < ALowther> BCMM: Interesting, thanks. So that is like a standard things that happens
15:37 < BCMM> ALowther: yeah it's *definitely* expected behaviour
15:37 < ALowther> BCMM: Sure, I thought it stood for 'switch user' anyhow.
15:37 < ALowther> BCMM: Good to know :)
15:37 < BCMM> ALowther: i think it's one of those ancient unix things where the meaning has been lost. but a lot of people assume "super user"
15:38 < mcdnl> yeah, it's unclear which of those is
15:39 < BCMM> ALowther: stackexchange points out that you might need to do su -l, and also that you could use exec to replace your existing shell instead of pointlessly nesting
15:39 < ChrisVim> hey folks! which book can you recommend for get a deeper understanding of linux? i'm on an arch system now with i3 for 2 years but i never really asked myself how linux works. cheers
15:40 < BCMM> ChrisVim: that question might be a bit broad, tbh, unless you really want to know *everything*
15:40 < djph> depends on what you're actually trying to learn -- the OS is a pretty broad topic
15:40 < ALowther> BCMM: so running su USER is a child process?
15:41 < BCMM> ChrisVim: like, are you curious about kernel internals, how the different userspace bits of unix systems fit together, or basics like the distinction between the kernel and userspace?
15:42 < BCMM> ALowther: yes. the result of su is to start a new shell (unless you use -c to run a different command). when you `exit`, that shell terminates, you find yourself at your original shell
15:42 < ALowther> BCMM: YEAH!
15:42 < BCMM> with your original credentials, environment variables and so on
15:42 < ALowther> BCMM: I just ran exit to test that
15:42 < ALowther> BCMM: I never knew that, interesting. Thanks
15:42 < ChrisVim> BCMM: djph: yes thats for sure. but maybe there is a standard recommendation where i can learn the basics like bash scripting , what all the different system folders are for, terminal commands, ...
15:43 < BCMM> ALowther: one thing people often don't realise initially is that there's nothing special about a shell. it's just a command-line program, and you can run a shell from you shell just like running any other program
15:43 < BCMM> ChrisVim: "terminal commands" is definitely too broad to recommend any resources, because you can do *anything* in the terminal
15:43 < ChrisVim> until today i learned linux just with learning by doing. i thought it would be a good idea to now learn it from scratch
15:44 < BCMM> ChrisVim: but a good intro to bash scripting will also cover some of the basic, universal commands
15:44 < ALowther> ChrisVim: You can build your own Linux system with Linux From Scratch(LFS), but that seems a bit deeper than what you're asking...but it's there if you're interested.
15:44 < BCMM> (including some which aren't part of bash, like sed and awk)
15:45 < ALowther> ChrisVim: https://guide.bash.academy
15:45 < ChrisVim> ALowther: BCMM: Thanks for your answers!
15:45 < ALowther> ChrisVim: That link will start teaching from a blank slate.
15:46 < ChrisVim> thats what i was looking for, thanks
15:46 < BCMM> ChrisVim: as ALowther says, there's no better way to find out how it really works than taking it apart and putting it together again. but perhaps your later messages suggest that you're more interested in learning more superuser skills than learning how it all works internally?
15:46 < BCMM> ChrisVim: for directories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard is a good starting point
15:47 < BCMM> ChrisVim: the FHS itself is not perhaps as canonical or universally-followed as its creators might have hoped, but it's a very good start
15:47 < ChrisVim> BCMM: thanks again!
15:47 < BCMM> np
15:48 < giovdav> Hello all!
15:48 < BCMM> giovdav: hi!
15:49 < giovdav> I need to edit a big file 4GB ... but vim crash ... what i can do?
15:49 < giovdav> where is a way to load only a portion of this file to edit it?
15:49 < giovdav> i don't need that the editor will load the whole file ..
15:49 < giovdav> i have read something with sed
15:49 < Thuryn> giovdav, the editor has to read the entire file to *write* it back out.
15:49 < giovdav> but i prefere an editor because i need to do other things
15:50 < ChrisVim> maybe you can also check out #vim
15:50 < Thuryn> giovdav, only options are:  split the file into chunks, edit the chunks, then re-merge them OR
15:50 < demonxian3> i like vim
15:50 < jhodrien> split, edit, cat merge?
15:50 < Thuryn> use a different editor
15:50 < BCMM> Thuryn: right, but it doesn't have to put the whole thing in memory to do that
15:50 < jhodrien> Use a different editor?
15:50 < giovdav> uuuuf i don't want to load the whole file
15:50 < giovdav> i try to ask in vim
15:50 < BCMM> Thuryn: i mean, cat has to read the chunks to write them, but it's smart enough not to put them all in memory at once
15:50 < mcdnl> giovdav: https://stackoverflow.com/a/908673
15:51 < demonxian3> in VIM , type :Ve
15:51 < mcdnl> giovdav: even better, next answer: https://stackoverflow.com/a/19795855
15:52 < BCMM> ctrl-c seems like a kind of dodgy solution, does vim really not have a launch parameter to make it skip all the clever stuff like syntax highlighting?
15:53 < jhodrien> BCMM: Wouldn't you just load vim disabling plugins, or start it up, :sy off, then open your file?
15:53 < Thuryn> ...or use a different editor...
15:54 < BCMM> jhodrien: that's what i was asking, i guess. how do you start without plugins?
15:54 < BCMM> oh right, vim --noplugin
15:58 < ice9> how to find the command filename of pid?
15:59 < BCMM> ice9: /proc/PID_HERE/cmdline
15:59 < BCMM> ice9: works like a file, you can cat it or read it programmatically or whatever
16:00 < ice9> BCMM, i'm getting this and i don't see the command itself https://paste.linux.community/view/20cb8b50
16:01 < BCMM> ice9: uh, snaps are weird. no idea how they work inside
16:02 < BCMM> ice9: but it may very well be the case that that process was created by some method *other* than just executing some command through the system shell
16:05 < ice9> i'm using lxd via snap, how can i disable dnsmasq?
16:07 < BCMM> ice9: i don't use any of that myself, but have you seen this? https://discuss.linuxcontainers.org/t/lxd-via-snapd-disable-dnsmasq/450
16:13 < zarzar> what latency should i expect when using uart on linux?
16:15 < Azelphur> Anyone got a laptop with USB-C? Interested in buying one of these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Autoor-Multi-purpose-interface-Multi-Device-Connection/dp/B07C78P6Y7/ but wondering what my chances are of having it work at all
16:16 < Pentode> interesting little device
16:17 < AE-35> Azelphur: try hardware
16:17 < Azelphur> AE-35: the channel? most people have Windows in there :)
16:17 < Pentode> it's cheap enough to give a go i suppose. at the very least it should work as a hub.
16:17 < AE-35> yes
16:18 < Pentode> chances of the network interface working are probably pretty good. not so sure about the HDMI feature, though.
16:18 < Pentode> you have to find out what chipsets it uses to ultimately get _any_ useful information about whether it may or may not work though
16:21 < Pentode> ya dig?
16:24 < BCMM> Azelphur: so basically that's a hub with some ports, and also a bunch of different devices internally connected to it. very little way of seeing what those internal devices are
16:24 < BCMM> the card reader should work, because it's probably just a USB mass storage device
16:25 < BCMM> as you say, a hub is just a hub, no driver support needed there
16:25 < Pentode> BCMM, yeah. he's really got to figure out what chips those devices are using and i don't see anything about it doing basic searches..
16:26 < Azelphur> BCMM: amusingly I'm mainly interested in HDMI, and just figured I'd buy something like that anyway.
16:27 < BCMM> Azelphur: there are definitely some usb gpus that work with linux, and definitely some that don't,,,
16:27 < BCMM> this very much seems like a device where the specsheet doesn't exist
16:28 < BCMM> the only places it's mentioned online are places that retail it and the manufacturer doesn't seem to have a web presence, etc.
16:28 < Pentode> yeah i can't find anything at all either
16:28 < Pentode> take a shot in the dark and see. ;)
16:29 < BCMM> i can't even find any mention of software support - they're not even talking about macos
16:29 < snaphelp> Ayyy
16:29 < BCMM> oh wait hang on apparently i can't read!
16:29 < BCMM> Chip: PD / FL7102 * HDMI / PS176 * LAN / RTL8153 * TF / SD / GL823K
16:29 < snaphelp> I joined the dark side my dudes
16:29 < BCMM> Pentode; Azelphur^
16:29 < snaphelp> I am using snap's
16:29 < Pentode> oh a nougat of data
16:30 < Pentode> where'\d you find that, i guess i can't read either.
16:30 < snaphelp> Anyone here know how to get windows fonts off windows and install them on linux?
16:31 < Pentode> truetype fonts can just be put in ~/.fonts or /usr/share/fonts/truetype/ i believe
16:32 < BCMM> snaphelp: are you talking about fonts you've installed, or the standard ones that come with windows?
16:32 < BCMM> snaphelp: because for the basic really common ones there's things like this https://packages.debian.org/sid/ttf-mscorefonts-installer
16:33 < BCMM> and if you want the newer-generation ones like calibri you can legally extract them from the free powerpoint viewer https://wiki.debian.org/ppviewerFonts
16:33 < royal_screwup21> is there anydownside to locking your computer when you don't want to use, as opposed to shutting it down?
16:33 < BCMM> royal_screwup21: additional power usage
16:34 < BCMM> (and wear and tear and so forth)
16:34 < BCMM> royal_screwup21: do you mean locking or sleep/suspend-to-ram?
16:34 < royal_screwup21> BCMM: hm I see. Just wondering if all that outweighs the start up time
16:34 < Pentode> i just copied a few random *.ttf fonts from a windows font dir and stuck them in ~/.fonts and they appear to render fine. i'm not aware if i have any fancy font rendering packages installed, though, but i don't believe i do.
16:34 < royal_screwup21> BCMM: no, just locking. ctrl + alt + l
16:35 < BCMM> royal_screwup21: why not consider suspend to ram? unless you need the machine to perform background tasks, it's *much* lower-power than leaving it on
16:35 < icy`> royal_screwup21, does a high uptime score count for anything?
16:35 < BCMM> it's practically like turning it off, except it's back almost instantly
16:35 < BCMM> (like, barely slower than the time it takes your monitor to come out of powersave)
16:36 < BCMM> Pentode: ttf is ttf, more or less
16:36 < Pentode> BCMM, yeah apparently so. i dont know much about fonts.
16:37 < Pentode> comparing them side by side they do appear to look quite different when rendered in linux, however.
16:37 < royal_screwup21> BCMM: cool, I'll look into it. I'm guessing systemctl suspend does the trick
16:37 < Pentode> some don't even look like the same font
16:37 < BCMM> royal_screwup21: what de are you using? there's probably easy non-root ways of doing it
16:37 < royal_screwup21> I'm on ubuntu 16.04 and I'm the root user
16:38 < BCMM> royal_screwup21: on kde, i've got it as an option on the "leave" menu, and i've also configured my machine's power button to suspend
16:38 < gu-----> Anyone know how to wake a printer up from sleep mode? walking over and pushing the power button is not ideal. I'm running a print server with CUPS.
16:38 < BCMM> royal_screwup21: you don't mean you're always logged in as root, do you?
16:38 < royal_screwup21> BCMM: ....is that bad?
16:39 < BCMM> royal_screwup21: well, what's this machine for?
16:39 < royal_screwup21> oh, it's just my personal computer
16:39 < BCMM> royal_screwup21: are we talking like a general-purpose desktop where you're logged in to a graphical session?
16:39 < BCMM> royal_screwup21: and are you *actually* root? or do you just mean you're a user who has the ability to do everything with sudo?
16:39 < BCMM> royal_screwup21: you can type `whoami` in a terminal to find out
16:40 < royal_screwup21> ah, yeah sorry I didn't know about that distinction. Yeah I'm a user who can do everything with sudo
16:41 < gu-----> maybe I can create a cron script to detect if a printer is sleeping?
16:41 < gu-----> but that would be silly
16:41 < gu-----> i could just force it to be up at all times i rather have CUPS wake it up
16:42 < BCMM> Pentode: ttf is basically ancient, no new features to keep up with or anything. otf is where you might be missing some features if you're using a new font and an old renderer
16:42 < ananke> gu-----: how are you connecting to said printer? network or usb?
16:43 < Azelphur> BCMM: nice find
16:43 < BCMM> Azelphur: i don't understand though, i looked up PS176 and it's apparently a dp-hdmi converter
16:43 < Azelphur> BCMM: that makes sense to me, because afaik USB-C outputs DP.
16:44 < Azelphur> it's just DP over USB-C
16:44 < BCMM> Azelphur: i know there is a dp over usb-c standard, but isn't that just connector reuse?
16:44 < BCMM> Azelphur: it doesn't actually use the usb protocol or work with hubs, does it?
16:44 < Azelphur> BCMM: that I don't know, good question.
16:44 < BCMM> oh it supports usb data along with dp apparently https://www.displayport.org/displayport-over-usb-c/
16:44 < Azelphur> cool
16:45 < Azelphur> I also notice the description for that item says "Applies to: for Mac OS/WINDOWS/Linux/Android"
16:45 < Azelphur> so...maybe that means it works?
16:45 < gu-----> anake: usb
16:45 < gu-----> ananke: usb
16:46 < BCMM> Azelphur: i really don't know how dp over usb-c works, though. surely not just any old type-c port, right? the system's gpu has got to somehow be aware of/connected to it?
16:46 < Azelphur> BCMM: well, I imagine in this case it is, it's an XPS 13 and designed to do it hardware wise.
16:46 < Azelphur> I've seen videos of other Linux users having success with USB-C to HDMI cables, too.
16:47 < Azelphur> but I just figure why pay £16 for USB-C to hdmi when I can pay £24 for USB-C to ethernet/usb/sd/hdmi
16:47 < BCMM> Azelphur: well, then it ought to work i guess. it's *not* a usb gpu like i thought, and should just show up as a displayport in xrandr i guess
16:47 < Azelphur> ah I see, that would be nice
16:47 < Azelphur> well, time to take a punt I suppose :)
16:47 < BCMM> Azelphur: i mean, i should say that in my experience, usb all-in-one gadgets are weird and janky
16:48 < BCMM> i've seen a few front-panel USB hub + multi card reader (fits in the floppy disk slot on an atx case), and they've all been rubbish
16:48 < BCMM> random disconnects, slow speeds on the usb ports because the hub is incredibly cheap etc
16:48 < ananke> gu-----: cups should wake it up automagically
16:49 < Azelphur> BCMM: honestly, with Linux (on my desktop PC) USB is just so unreliable in general. It continually just stops working, entire hub/port will stop working and I have to reboot to fix it
16:49 < Azelphur> and it's definitely not a hardware fault, because I've had the same issue over 2 different motherboard/chipsets and three usb hubs
16:49 < Azelphur> Only thing left to be a hardware fault is the case xD
16:52 < zumba_ad_> Good morning. Doing ls -n on my home directory tells me my uid and gid. Is there a command that will show uid and gid without running ls -n?
16:52 < ananke> zumba_ad_: stat
16:52 < zumba_ad_> ok, i'll try thanks!
16:53 < zumba_ad_> looks like it's not the one i was looking for
16:54 < zumba_ad_> i just want to know what my corresponding uid is of my account
16:54 < fryguy> zumba_ad_: `id`
16:54 < zumba_ad_> ah
16:54 < zumba_ad_> yes! that's it :)
16:54 < zumba_ad_> thank you
16:54 < zumba_ad_> brb
16:55 < ananke> zumba_ad_: that's a very different question than your original one
17:11 < someguy9099> hi, can i emulate a joystick with linux (so i can connect my laptop to another pc, and act as a joystick)
17:12 < someguy9099> i saw something about that on raspberry pi, but nothing about joysticks
17:13 < Pentode> you want to connect said machine via ethernet or usb or something and have one of it's HID's act as a joystick for another machine?
17:14 < someguy9099> yes, trough usb , one machine acts as the device and the other one as the host(?)
17:14 < Pentode> im not aware of softwares that will do this, though im sure there could be something i'm not aware of.
17:15 < Siecje> how can I print the last 5 lines of a file but truncate each line if it is too long.
17:17 < Pentode> Siecje, you can use tail to output any number of last lines in a file.
17:18 < Pentode> Siecje, you could then use cut to truncate it..
17:19 < Siecje> Pentode: how do you cut each line?
17:19 < Pentode> Siecje, i've tried this: tail -n 5 file.txt | cut -c -80
17:19 < Pentode> appears to work
17:19 < Pentode> -80 being 80 characters
17:21 < Siecje> Pentode: That does work thanks.
17:22 < Pentode> np
17:26 < MibixFox> can someone please help me? i have been converting my drives from ntfs to ext4 and using the gui to copy files over.   I stopped the gui copy midway and im trying to use rsync in the cli but its not resuming where i left off. im using rsync -a --append -u --progress /mnt/Q /mnt/P/ and it seems to just be rewriting everything
17:29 < ayecee> add this to the command: --modify-window=1
17:29 < ayecee> ntfs file timestamp is lower resolution, and this can cause rsync to think the times are different.
17:30 < copart> I use --modify-window=2
17:30 < ayecee> also good
17:31 < BCMM> Azelphur: the only time i've ever really seen big difference between OSs on usb support was in linux's favour
17:31 < Celmor> can I use grep to match strings like bash globbing works, e.g. * for any number of chars, ? for a single char, etc.
17:32 < BCMM> Azelphur: had a mouse that was failing, would drop its usb connection every few minutes. on windows, i then had to unplug the mouse and plug it in again, but on linux it would just come back after a second or two
17:32 < copart> Celmor: grep uses regular expressions
17:32 < copart> Celmor: * in bash is .* in regular expression
17:32 < Celmor> I know, I can use .* and similar but I wanted a simpler version
17:32 < ayecee> Celmor: i don't think grep can do globbing
17:32 < Celmor> I thought I used to be able to use a single *
17:33 < copart> pipe your pattern from sed
17:33 < copart> replace * with .* and ? with .?
17:34 < ayecee> look at this guy
17:34 < ayecee> thinks he's a comedian
17:35 < Pentode> lol
17:36 < Celmor> alright
17:38 < copart> echo catsarenotfood | egrep "$(echo 'cat*foo?' | sed 's/\*/.*/g; s/\?/.?/g')"
17:40 < rocketmagnet> when i had 2 hard disk, can i install windows on the first and linux on the second and still have grub to let me choose at startup ?
17:41 < Celmor> yes
17:41 < rocketmagnet> no problem at all ?
17:41 < rocketmagnet> can i have the linux hd use lvm to encrypt it ?
17:41 < WhiteDevil> ijust ordered a wireless adpater
17:41 < Celmor> you need 2 ESPs though, one for the grub boot loader and 1 for the windows boot loader
17:42 < WhiteDevil> it runs on linux but it says mint, ubuntu and debian
17:42 < WhiteDevil> I have a debian
17:42 < WhiteDevil> but i also have RHEL
17:42 < Celmor> either that are put grub and windows boot loader in the same ESP but then you need to be more careful
17:42 < WhiteDevil> do you think there might be hickups with rhel ?
17:43 < Celmor> rocketmagnet, I have an ESP on a disk I passthrough to a windows VM, at boot time that disk is still available to the host system and the linux kernel is loaded from it, the disk for linux is completely formatted with LVM
17:43 < Celmor> I specified in my UEFI to load the linux kernel in EFI mode
17:43 < Celmor> but if the default boot loader in that ESP is started, windows is booted
17:44 < ayecee> i use "apt-get autoremove" to remove packages that are no longer used, especially kernel packages. does yum have an equivalent command?
17:45 < ayecee> ah, looks like it does that already.
17:46 < MibixFox> adding --modify-window=1 doesnt seem to change anything either :/
17:46 < Celmor> MibixFox, try #rsync
17:47 < Celmor> or -I
17:47 < Celmor> (--ingonre-times)
17:47 < copart> ayecee: removes packages that were installed as a dependency when you remove the parent
17:47 < copart> ayecee: when you do dnf remove
17:47 < ayecee> dnf?
17:48 < copart> ayecee: yum too (dnf is newer tool in FEdora)
17:48 < ayecee> i see
17:48 < ayecee> thanks
17:48 < |aaron> hey all. ive got a systemd unit and a script id like to run that populates env vars for that unit's use. i know about the Environment and EnvironmentFile unit options but those only support simple declarations like VAR=VALUE, whereas my script needs to loop over the result returned from another program. is the only solution here for my script to write the variables to a file for the unit to read? i was hoping to avoid storing them on disk at all (as they are
17:48 < |aaron> secrets).
17:50 < ayecee> oh pfft, there's a yum autoremove. that's just too easy.
17:58 < bls> |aaron: you're better off giving up on using the features systemd provides if they don't work and doing it all yourself
17:58 < Dagmar> |aaron: You might want to *fully* explain the problem then, rather than develop an insecure x-y solution
17:59 < |aaron> bls: so not use a systemd unit to run this service and just script the whole thing myself, you mean? the service is apache httpd
17:59 < Dagmar> In general, anything that could be called a "secret" shouldn't be getting stuck into environment values except with very specific caveats
17:59 < |aaron> Dagmar: Hmm ok, well I pretty much did, the secrets are from AWS SSM parameter store, and the service is httpd
17:59 < bls> no, just have a unit that calls your script, and do everything in your script
17:59 < bls> pretty much exactly the way things were before systemd
18:00 < |aaron> Dagmar: Hmm. Where would you put them then?
18:00 < Dagmar> There's pretty much no way something like that should have involved init
18:01 < gnulligan> tomreyn: I KNEW YOUR NAME WAS FAMILIAR
18:01 < gnulligan> lol you're a megaglest dev
18:01 < gnulligan> your name was bugging me for a while because it sounded familiar
18:02 < |aaron> bls: So I actually tried that but I must have done something wrong. I override ExecStart= with my script, which exports all the vars then calls "exec $DAEMON -- $DAEMON_SERVER_OPTS" at the end
18:02 < |aaron> but httpd doesnt even start that way
18:03 < |aaron> the journal says it finished starting up, but no process
18:03 < |aaron> should i not be using exec? obviously id like systemd to still manage the pid, proc status, etc
18:04 < ayecee> why use exec?
18:04 < |aaron> Dagmar: the unit seemed like a natural place to put it to me.. where would you put it?
18:04 < |aaron> thats just how examples i saw online were doing it
18:04 < |aaron> i thought that was the "correct" way but i guess not
18:05 < Dagmar> What part of "you should fully explain" is confusing
18:05 < |aaron> I did fully explain
18:05 < |aaron> What part of my explanation was confusing?
18:05 < Dagmar> The part where you might have been installing AWS instance keys into the brain of a giant mutated spider
18:06 < |aaron> Why would you assume that? Access control is handled by an instance profile
18:06 < |aaron> There are no keys on the machine at all. These secrets are the only sensitive data
18:07 < rocketmagnet> hi again, where on earth can i set kernel boot parameters if i'm not using a boot manager ? (rasperri pi with kali here)
18:07 < Dagmar> O
18:07 < Dagmar> I'll make this simple, |aaron
18:07 < rocketmagnet> i'm not able to disable ipv6 permanently on debian, the only way i found is by setting the right boot paramter to grub
18:07 < Dagmar> If you think that you "fully explained" anything, but don't see a problem with that the details you've given amount to less than 250 characters, perhaps this is part of your problem
18:08 < Dagmar> *You* don't even appear to know what you're trying to do
18:08 < |aaron> ???
18:08 < |aaron> Lmfao
18:08 < |aaron> ok dude you are just talking nonsense
18:08 < |aaron> I know *exactly* what im trying to do, and ive explained it completely. If you want to ask a follow up question go ahead
18:09 < |aaron> Comments like this "The part where you might have been installing AWS instance keys into the brain of a giant mutated spider" make it sound much more like you are the one who doesnt understand what im doing
18:09 < Dagmar> Nah, I'll just ignore you
18:09 < Dagmar> There's plenty of lunatics on the internet
18:09 < |aaron> darn, such a loss
18:09 < |aaron> ill say
18:09 < Dagmar> Notice the complete lack of anyone else wanting to get involved with such a vaguely defined process
18:09 < rocketmagnet> when there is nothing like grub, how to set kernel boot parameters ??
18:09 < |aaron> i thought you were gonna ignore me?
18:09 < Dagmar> rocketmagnet: How are you booting at all?
18:09 < |aaron> still running your mouth because *you* dont understsand, lmao
18:10 < |aaron> such a simple question too
18:10 < rocketmagnet> from an sd card, it's an prebuild kali for arm (rasperry pi)
18:10 < Dagmar> rocketmagnet: It probably *does* use grub
18:10 < rocketmagnet> how does linux does it when there is no need for grub ?
18:11 < Dagmar> It *doesn't*
18:11 < MrElendig> read the kali docs
18:11 < Dagmar> Kernels don't magically boot
18:11 < rocketmagnet> that's clear
18:11 < MrElendig> it tells you how to change the boot parameters
18:11 < rocketmagnet> i've found nothing on the web so far
18:13 < Dagmar> Maybe you should be using Raspbian then
18:14 < Dagmar> There's a number of things about Kali that were not designed with desktop use in mind
18:15 < MrElendig> rocketmagnet: what is your use case?
18:15 < rocketmagnet> i want to disable ipv6 for all network devices
18:15 < rocketmagnet> vpn dns leak...
18:16 < Dagmar> So set your DNS correctly
18:16 < rocketmagnet> when using grub i just had to pass ipv6=0 and that worked
18:16 < MrElendig> rocketmagnet: what is your use case for kali
18:16 < MrElendig> it is NOT a secure distro
18:16 < gnulligan> ^
18:16 < rocketmagnet> Dagmar: i set my dns correctly, but there is still a way to get your provider with ipv6
18:16 < Dagmar> When the VPN is active, your system should be using something that is on the other side of the VPN as it's DNS source.  No exceptions.
18:17 < MrElendig> it was made to break security, not be secure
18:17 < Dagmar> This is true
18:17 < Dagmar> It's *not* meant to be used as a "hardened environment'
18:17 < rocketmagnet> MrElendig: what's distro would you prefer for a firewall/router/fileserver ?
18:17 < rocketmagnet> i'm from debian background
18:18 < MrElendig> rocketmagnet: pfsense etc
18:18 < rocketmagnet> and i don't want to change that, i've already tons to learn and are behind it, no time for another distro
18:18 < MrElendig> not that a rpi is suitable as a router
18:18 < felda> who dare pfsense in my presence?!
18:18 < ntd> is the quadro nvs 285 not supported for x11 vdpau (nouveau)?
18:18 < rocketmagnet> rpi is a good router... why not ??
18:18 < MrElendig> ntd: nouveau basically doesn't support anything
18:18 < Dagmar> rocketmagnet: It lacks the ability to convincingly "do" gigE
18:18 < MrElendig> rocketmagnet: it is not a good router, it has horrible IO performance and no hw acceleration for anything relevant
18:19 < felda> good luck hitting gigabit with anything like an RPI
18:19 < MrElendig> felda: good luck even doing 100mbit
18:19 < Dagmar> Nah, they have good hardware accell for video decoding
18:19 < MrElendig> felda: add a couple of vlans and good luck doing 30mbit
18:19 < Dagmar> ...and they work okay for Fast Ethernet-only environments
18:19 < rocketmagnet> the new one also has 64bit
18:19 < MrElendig> rocketmagnet: if you want to diy a router you are better off buying one of the cheap aliexpress servers
18:20 < rocketmagnet> i found out that my old router send signals to their company...
18:20 < felda> maybe try this?  https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157808
18:20 < MrElendig> if you just want to play around, then look at vde
18:21 < rocketmagnet> so i decided to use something where i'm sure what hardware/sofware is running, i also had custom software on the router but still got these stupid signals send out to california, like they are monitoring their users in some way
18:21 < ntd> MrElendig, exact same system image is working fine on an almost identical box. only diff is that it has a quadro nvs 290
18:21 < MrElendig> rocketmagnet: I would suggest just buying a mikrotik/ubiq router though
18:21 < rocketmagnet> can i have linux installed there ?
18:22 < MrElendig> rocketmagnet: you would use their OS
18:22 < Dagmar> Oooo they had me until it got to only two slots of ddr4
18:22  * Dagmar closes the browser tab
18:22 < MrElendig> rocketmagnet: if you want diy, grab something like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgBaRzmOqjQ
18:22 < ntd> oh, well. i do believe i've got a 290 in a drawer somewhere, but just seemed unlikely
18:22 < MrElendig> or some old machine with a couple of PCIex4 slots
18:22 < gnulligan> hey guys when I try to install xubuntu it just shows a black screen and nothing else
18:23 < rocketmagnet> too much watt
18:23 < MrElendig> rocketmagnet: no
18:23 < gnulligan> it gets to a grub prompt, I select "Install Xubuntu"
18:23 < gnulligan> and black
18:23 < gnulligan> but, when I select "check disk for errors" the error check works fine
18:23 < rocketmagnet> i need something with small energy
18:23 < gnulligan> and the error check display is perfect, even detecting my second monitor
18:23 < MrElendig> rocketmagnet: how is 20w too much?
18:23 < gnulligan> I tried editing the options for the "Install Xubuntu" entry in grub and removing "quiet", but it still just shows a black screen, no text
18:23 < gnulligan> what's going on? :(
18:25 < MrElendig> gnulligan: nomodeset
18:25 < Dagmar> ntd: Keep in mind the Quadro's are designed for visualization/CUDA stuff, not gaming.  The Nouveau people basically aren't coding for /those/ kinds of cards
18:25 < MrElendig> gnulligan: or video=....
18:26 < MrElendig> gnulligan: what hardware is this btw?
18:26 < ntd> this is playing video with mplayer using -vo vdpau
18:26 < ntd> for some reason the 285 won't do this, 290 will :)
18:26 < gnulligan> MrElendig: ryzen 5 2400g w/ integrated vega xD
18:26 < Dagmar> Not "some reason".  This reason -> https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/CodeNames/
18:27 < MrElendig> gnulligan: old kernel?
18:27 < gnulligan> no it's xubuntu 18.04
18:27 < Dagmar> The 290 is a Tesla card
18:27 < MrElendig> gnulligan: that is a yes then
18:27 < MrElendig> you want 4.16 + latest mesa
18:27 < Dagmar> The 285 is Curie and basically, almost entirely worthless for nouveau
18:27 < gnulligan> oh really? lol
18:27 < MrElendig> but anyway, try booting with nomodeset
18:27 < gnulligan> I was afraid I'd need a super new kernel for this
18:27 < gnulligan> ok
18:28 < MrElendig> gnulligan: 2xxxg sadly is buggy as hell still
18:28 < ntd> "quite diff from prev cards"
18:28 < ntd> i see
18:28 < MrElendig> though with the latest mesa (or -dev) it have improved somewhat
18:28 < ntd> was looking at http://us.download.nvidia.com/solaris/346.47/README/supportedchips.html
18:28 < airking> is Fillipe a bot?
18:28 < gnulligan> so just edit the grub entry for "install Xubuntu" and add "nomodeset", right?
18:28 < MrElendig> yea, append it to the kernel line
18:28 < ntd> so then it's pretty much confirmed. thanks
18:28 < gnulligan> MrElendig: ok ty brb
18:29 < MrElendig> if it still doesn't work, try noapic acpi=off
18:29 < MrElendig> gnulligan: also, make sure the firmware is fully up to date
18:29 < MrElendig> gnulligan: also, how is the monitor connected?
18:30 < ntd> time to do dumpster-diving for that 290, thanks Dagmar
18:30 < MrElendig> gnulligan: idealy you would want >= 4.17
18:31 < gnulligan> MrElendig: well this is a windows dual-boot so windows should have taken care of whatever firmware needed updating. it's connected with hdmi, dual monitors (the second one didn't work on windows until a driver was installed so we'll see how it goes on linux), and the nomodeset option worked
18:31 < MrElendig> windows does not magically upgrade the uefi firmware
18:32 < gnulligan> oh that
18:32 < MrElendig> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ryzen-2400g-may&num=1
18:32 < gnulligan> yeah I upgraded it lol
18:32 < gnulligan> if you mean flashing the bios, then yes
18:32 < MrElendig> you are not alone with 2xxxg problems
18:32 < rosco_> I can reboot a machine remotely through remote management but I have no better interface than that. How can I test a new kernel? Is there a command to reboot a host with a "onetime" test kernel and reboot on a safesr kernel in case of another reboot?
18:33 < gnulligan> btw does "download updates while installing" ever cause system instability later?
18:33 < MrElendig> rosco_: don't mess with it unless you have out of bound access
18:33 < gnulligan> I've heard one guy say not to use that option because it can be less stable than updating afterwards
18:33 < MrElendig> rosco_: one thing you could do is to set up a hardware watchdog and have the default kernel be the known good one, and then tell the boot loader to only boot the new kernel once
18:34 < MrElendig> rosco_: and hope that the hardware watchdog will reboot the machine if the new kernel fails
18:34 < MrElendig> this assumes that your machine has a functional hardware watchdog
18:34 < MrElendig> (a lot of hardware doesn't)
18:35 < MrElendig> if you have out of band access, just tell the boot loader to only boot the new kernel once
18:35 < BCMM> gnulligan: uefi firmware usually needs to updated manually. also, you generally can't rely on windows to update other kinds of firmware either
18:36 < MrElendig> both grub and systemd-boot supports one time boot
18:36 < BCMM> gnulligan: i mean, windows update will download stuff like cpu microcode, but like most firmware, it's volatile and needs to be "installed" on every boot
18:37 < BCMM> (graphics firmware is definitely one that's loaded each boot)
18:37 < oerheks> grinn gnulligan
18:37 < MrElendig> for amd, the runtime microcode is shipped in linux-firmware
18:37 < oerheks> crossposting is so smart
18:39 < gnulligan> BCMM: the problem is "firmware" is a generic term. When he asked if I updated "the firmware", I didn't know which one he meant, but I assumed microcode for zen bugfixes etc... though yes I updated the uefi firmware manually as well
18:40 < BCMM> gnulligan: right, but windows will *not* take care of microcode updates for linux
18:40 < gnulligan> oh really? I thought microcode was OS-independent
18:40 < Dagmar> It is
18:40 < BCMM> gnulligan: it is, but the cpu doesn't actually store microcode updates
18:40 < dgurney> manufacturers don't always have the latest microcode in the firmware
18:41 < MrElendig> microcode and firmware are different things though
18:41 < Dagmar> Are you perhaps surmising that Windows is going to load the microcode and then chain-load Linux?
18:41 < BCMM> gnulligan: they get "installed" each time the OS is booted
18:41 < gnulligan> BCMM: omg really? I never knew that
18:41 < BCMM> gnulligan: well that's the case for intel anyway. i believe amd is the same though.
18:41 < dgurney> yes, really. either the firmware loads microcode on boot, or the OS does
18:41 < BCMM> gnulligan: at power-on you get the microcode that was burned in to the cpu when it was manufactured
18:44 < rosco_> MrElendig: I was thinking that ‘GRUB_SAVEDEFAULT’ could be used in some way. I never really used it
18:45 < MrElendig> gnulligan: watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fNBkUCjhcE&list=PLEeZWGE3PwbZ44SUf1-vA-UuX9_J_pifB when you have the time
18:45 < BCMM> gnulligan: on my debian system, i've installed intel-microcode from non-free, and as far as i can see it hooks the initramfs generation thingy. if you *don't* have something like that on your distro, you're not running current microcode
18:46 < ssarah> i want something that monitors a user area/dir and sends me an email when there are changes
18:46 < ssarah> you guys know of anything?
18:46 < MrElendig> rosco_: uefi?
18:46 < MrElendig> rosco_: also which distro?
18:46 < gnulligan> MrElendig: wow that
18:46 < MrElendig> rosco_: https://wiki.debian.org/GrubReboot
18:46 < gnulligan> thats cool
18:46 < gnulligan> I always wanted to put an opensparc on a FPGA
18:47 < dotcomboom> curious, is the microcode that necessary?
18:47 < BCMM> ssarah: if you wanted to roll your own, you could start with inotifywait or inotifywatch https://stackoverflow.com/questions/29672293/how-to-send-an-email-alert-if-a-folder-is-modified
18:47 < MrElendig> (risc-v is much nicer)
18:47 < MrElendig> dotcomboom: yes
18:47 < rosco_> MrElengis: centos 7, WOW, just found it!  "grub-reboot — Set the default boot menu entry for the next boot only."
18:47 < MrElendig> dotcomboom: it fixes various bugs in the cpu
18:47 < dotcomboom> ah
18:47 < gnulligan> MrElendig: there aren't any risc-v implementations (yet) that can match ultrasparc T2 performance
18:48 < MrElendig> gnulligan: but they don't need a 1000€ fpga either...
18:48 < MrElendig> :p
18:48 < BCMM> dotcomboom: modern x86 processors are ludicrously complicated. they have what is basically an internal risc architecture, and a built-in software layer that implements x86 on top of it
18:48 < gnulligan> lol ya
18:48 < BCMM> dotcomboom: it's all much too complicated and riddled with bugs
18:48 < MrElendig> dotcomboom: pretty much every cpu since the 80's have used microcode
18:49 < BCMM> dotcomboom: but a few of those bugs get discovered and fixed, and that's what microcode updates are for
18:49 < gnulligan> anyway I just rebooted and although xubuntu installed, now the installed version has a black screen xD
18:49 < MrElendig> just varied if it was runtime changeable or not
18:49 < gnulligan> I guess nomodeset again, though I assume I can remove that from grub once the kernel is updated right?
18:49 < BCMM> MrElendig: pretty much every *desktop* cpu
18:50 < widmo> I've always thought the microcode is hardcoded in the asic, and just recently discovered it's not
18:50 < widmo> Isn't there a performance penalty because it's not hardcoded?
18:50 < ssarah> BCMM,  i will try that
18:50 < gnulligan> widmo: why?
18:50 < gnulligan> is eeprom slower to read than eprom?
18:50 < zarzar> is CLOCK_MONOTONIC_RAW affected by the kernel tick rate at all?
18:51 < MrElendig> gnulligan: usually the oposite
18:51 < widmo> Well, i'd imagine there would be a redundant step in decoding of every instruction
18:51 < BCMM> widmo: x86 is hideously inefficient in many ways, but people have spent decades and billions of dollars optimizing around those problems
18:51 < widmo> I can imagine
18:51 < BCMM> i hope we'll see the day when a proper architecture gets the same treatment...
18:52 < gnulligan> (that was a rhetorical answer to widmo- there shouldn't be any speed difference between using eeprom or eprom/prom)
18:52 < MrElendig> gnulligan: most eeproms are made with much newer tech than eproms so..
18:52 < gnulligan> lol ya
18:52 < gnulligan> I doubt anyone even makes eproms anymore
18:53 < BCMM> gnulligan: i don't think he was concerned with microcode loading times, but more the penalties of providing a flexible, general-purpose execution environment for it
18:53 < gnulligan> ohhh
18:53 < BCMM> if that makes sense
18:53 < widmo> BCMM: thanks for explaining, that was what I've meant
18:53 < BCMM> because usually programmable things are slower than burned-in-to-silicon things
18:53 < gnulligan> yeah it does, I can see why that could cause a performance overhead
18:54 < BCMM> we're all used to things like software h.264 or aes vs. dedicated hardware implementations
18:54 < BCMM> or cpu/gpu bitcoin vs asic
18:55 < BCMM> and x86/amd64 instructions are essentially implemented as something in between a hardware solution and a software solution
18:57 < MrElendig> using microcode is actually faster on modern cpus than what implementing the instructions directly in silicon would be
18:57 < MrElendig> since it massively reduces the transistor count and size, so you can push the speeds higher
18:58 < MrElendig> core size*
18:58 < MrElendig> and hey, you can implement a instruction in microcode and have it execute in just one clock tick, or implement it in silicon and have it execute in just one clock tick :p
18:59 < MrElendig> (for the simpler ones)
18:59 < gnulligan> ok I just booted into xubuntu with nomodeset, then ran software updater and restarted
18:59 < gnulligan> it still won't let me boot without nomodeset
18:59 < gnulligan> I guess it didn't update the kernel?
19:00 < gnulligan> :(
19:00 < gnulligan> I'll check brb
19:00 < MrElendig> try noapic acpi=off
19:01 < gnulligan> well I mean, nomodeset works
19:01 < MrElendig> ah tought you ment it didn't work
19:01 < gnulligan> I get a desktop with nomodeset, but I'd rather it had full h/w support
19:01 < MrElendig> set up ssh, boot without modeset and see what happens
19:01 < MrElendig> ssh in and see if it responds
19:01 < MrElendig> and if it does, check dmesg -H
19:02 < MrElendig> when exactly does it go black btw, at loading modules, or when it starts X?
19:03 < gnulligan> right after grub
19:03 < gnulligan> I hit enter, and black
19:03 < paul424> Hello, Hello, I am on Opensuse 42.3 and I am trying to connect to an android 4 device, which is stuck ( onyx eink reader - max carta ) , which keeps booting and booting and cannot start. Is there any way I can access it's memory and reset it ?
19:03 < paul424> ,the lsusb gives
19:03 < MrElendig> if it is using plymouth, make sure to disable it
19:03 < paul424> Bus 002 Device 002: ID 18d1:2d01 Google Inc. Android-powered device in accessory mode with ADB support
19:04 < MrElendig> paul424: usually involves opening it up
19:04 < Isky> paul424: last time I did that, I searched for "unbrick android <ver> in linux" on google and got steps
19:04 < Isky> I don't remember what they were, though.
19:04 < MrElendig> most ebook readers have the software on a sd card
19:05 < triceratux> gnulligan: they recently changed xorg to have a much greater affinity for the modesetting driver https://tjaalton.wordpress.com/2016/07/23/intel-graphics-gen4-and-newer-now-defaults-to-modesetting-driver-on-x/ i found i had to make certain adjustments
19:05 < MrElendig> paul424: tried back + power button?
19:05 < Isky> I'm trying to use fcntl to lock files on nfs, and it's hanging. (I don't have a choice to use another method. They're cobol scripts used in our ERP)
19:05 < gnulligan> MrElendig: I think it won't need nomodeset if I update to the latest kernel... would sudo apt-get dist-upgrade do it? Or is the newest kernel not in the official xubuntu repos?
19:05 < paul424> MrElendig, what do you mean by back + power button
19:05 < gnulligan> triceratux: ty I'll check that ouit
19:06 < MrElendig> paul424: turn it off, press back and power at the same time
19:06 < MrElendig> long press
19:06 < paul424> I tried pressing the power for 7 seconds and it freezes the device
19:06 < MrElendig> paul424: power + back button will put it in recovery mode
19:06 < paul424> then I press the power button again and it retrurns to booting up
19:07 < paul424> what is that mystical back button
19:07 < MrElendig> the button wiht a sideways u
19:07 < paul424> you seem to own such device
19:07 < paul424> hmm ...
19:07 < MrElendig> I don't
19:08 < MrElendig> have had a few older onyx devices though
19:08 < MrElendig> just replaced my kobo h2o with the aura one after the screen broke :(
19:08 < paul424> yeap , I also owned m90 model, which I already sold
19:09 < paul424> and that model had the back button , which you activated with the pin
19:09 < MrElendig> had a couple of boox variants
19:09 < paul424> but not the Max version ?
19:09 < MrElendig> nope, way too expensive
19:09 < MrElendig> would be nice for pdf though, kobo is friggin useless when it comes to pdf
19:10 < pekmek> hi guys
19:10 < MrElendig> also, I like it being waterproof :p
19:10 < pekmek> someone using orchestrator for mysql replication?
19:10 < gnulligan> hey so I'm having hardware support issues with xubuntu on a ryzen 2400g
19:10 < gnulligan> I'd like to update to the most recent kernel
19:10 < gnulligan> is sudo apt-get dist-upgrade the best option here?
19:11 < gnulligan> lol nope
19:11 < BCMM> gnulligan: what version of xubuntu are you using?
19:11 < gnulligan> I just checked- that only updates 7 packages, and they're libgoa and libvt related
19:11 < MrElendig> there is the mainline ppa or backports
19:11 < WhiteDevil> hey what was that linux gaming room called ?
19:12 < gnulligan> BCMM: latest, 18.04
19:12 < gnulligan> I guess add a repo then
19:12 < gnulligan> though that usually breaks everything haha
19:13 < gnulligan> what's the official linux kernel repo?
19:13 < WhiteDevil> hey anyone know the room i was talking about ?
19:13 < TRS-80> triceratux: "recently" kek, I love GNU/Linux <3
19:14 < BCMM> WhiteDevil: "room" means an irc channel in this case?
19:14 < WhiteDevil> yes sorry
19:14 < koala_man> #gamingonlinux ?
19:14 < WhiteDevil> yup that one
19:14 < MrElendig> check backports first, if not there use the kernel-ppa
19:15 < BCMM> gnulligan: do you know which kernel you need?
19:16 < triceratux> TRS-80: unless you look closely you wont know when they did it, when a given distro adopted it, & why you or anyone else is only seeing it now. at least with ubuntu it comes out in manageable, properly scheduled snapshots
19:16 < MrElendig> 4.17 would be prefered for raven ridge
19:17 < triceratux> tumbleweed ships 4.17 already. give up on the ubuntu
19:17 < gnulligan> BCMM: 4.16, so I guess I'll add the mainline ppa
19:18 < Ignacy> hey guys. helping some non-linux-usr to read his problematic ssd from linux mint. what's the name of default file manager on mint, and how do I call it from terminal (which command)?
19:19 < MrElendig> Ignacy: coreutils
19:19 < MrElendig> aka ls, cd, etc.....
19:19 < MrElendig> if you are running X anyway, just click the icon
19:20 < BCMM> Ignacy: looks like they're using a fork of nautilus called "nemo"
19:20 < Ignacy> i'm telling him what to type to install ntfs driver, create a directory and mount his problematic drive there. but it will mount it as root, so i wanted to open the file with file manager
19:20 < Ignacy> nemo! thanks
19:21 < MrElendig> nemo is not going to help in anyway way
19:21 < Ignacy> it's opening in read only, should be ok with root access
19:21 < MrElendig> not with permissions
19:21 < Ignacy> run as root?
19:21 < MrElendig> and NEVER run nemo as root
19:21 < MrElendig> just mount with the correct uid/gid mount options
19:21 < Ignacy> can I do that?
19:22 < MrElendig> you can
19:22 < MrElendig> (if you read the manual)
19:22 < Ignacy> ok, that sounds proper. thanks!
19:22 < Ignacy> that's what i'm gonna do
19:22 < BCMM> Ignacy: ntfs doesn't support unix permissions. as a result, all files on an ntfs partition will appear to have the same ownership and permissions. you can decide what those are when you mount it.
19:23 < MrElendig> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/NTFS-3G#Linux_compatible_permissions
19:23 < BCMM> Ignacy: man ntfs-3g
19:23 < MrElendig> https://www.tuxera.com/community/ntfs-3g-advanced/ownership-and-permissions/
19:23 < BCMM> oh or that
19:23 < MrElendig> depending on how fancy you want to be
19:25 < Ignacy> hmm, how can I get linux mint live cd username from console, to change the owner of the catalogue that the drive will be mounted to?
19:25 < Ignacy> that would solve the permissions problem. it's the catalogue that is created as root, because it's in /media
19:27 < MrElendig> Ignacy: id
19:29 < Ignacy> i'll use $(whoami) to get username
19:30 < MrElendig> use id
19:30 < jim> don't you have to parse id?
19:32 < MrElendig> his next question would be "how do I get the group" or "why doesn't uid=username work :p
19:32 < jim> oh ok, you can use id -un
19:33 < Ignacy> ahhh id was a command name, not a variable.
19:33 < gnulligan> are odd-numbered kernels, like 4.17, unstable?
19:33 < gnulligan> or is that over with?
19:33 < paul424> MrElendig, what to choose from recovery menu ?
19:33 < Ignacy> but it's a live system so id and guid is most likely 1000 and 1000
19:33 < MrElendig> paul424: factory reset would be a start
19:33 < gnulligan> I'm trying to decide between kernel 4.16 and 4.17 for my system
19:33 < dgurney> gnulligan, that is long over with
19:33 < dgurney> like, really long
19:34 < paul424> wipe data\factory reset --does not helo
19:34 < gnulligan> ok cool lol
19:34 < MrElendig> gnulligan: use the newest available
19:34 < gnulligan> ty MrElendig
19:34 < MrElendig> 4.17 have a bunch of improvements for raven ridge
19:34 < MrElendig> has*
19:34 < paul424> help*, but the device gives no confirmation about that, only "rebooting ... "
19:35 < jim> gnulligan, I'd request you spell out things like ty into thank you while you're here... helps others understand
19:35 < MrElendig> "Swich off the device firstly, and then long press back + power buttons, enter into recovery mode, to choose “wipe data\factory reset – yes delet all user data - reboot” to restore factory default." -- onyx customer support
19:35 < paul424> I see that web page as well
19:35 < MrElendig> I would contact them if there is no option to rest
19:35 < MrElendig> reset*
19:36 < gnulligan> laugh out loud oh kay Jim thank you
19:36 < paul424> but asi I wrote I don;t get no confirmation ........hmm
19:36 < MrElendig> had it on my older devices too
19:36 < paul424> MrElendig, hopefully there is some service in Europe
19:36 < paul424> European Union*
19:36 < MrElendig> they have an office in ze germany
19:36 < jim> gnulligan, just consider the folks here who are (say) first-time english speakers
19:36 < MrElendig> or had anyway, sent one of my old ones there
19:37 < paul424> ZE >
19:37 < paul424> ?
19:37 < MrElendig> in münchen iirc
19:38 < paul424> oki, many thanks for help anyway :)
19:38 < MrElendig> did you buy it straight from onyx-international?
19:39 < paul424> err from the aliexpress ...
19:39 < MrElendig> good luck then :p
19:39 < takeme> chmod -x run  <— i can’t change attribute, what’s wrong?
19:39 < paul424> what;s wrong with aliexpress, MrElendig ?
19:39 < MrElendig> sidenote: when I bought mine, it was the same price to buy from their european dealer as from ali :pp
19:40 < MrElendig> paul424: no support
19:40 < MrElendig> unless you call 30 days "warranty" support :p
19:40 < Ignacy> @takeme that's chmod +x run
19:40 < Ignacy> as you want to "add" the execute bit
19:41 < paul424> how do I chooise wipe data, MrElendig ? with a pencil ?
19:41 < MrElendig> probably
19:41 < takeme> :( Ignacy thanks :)
19:41 < takeme> :)
19:41 < paul424> the thing is the device acts out as the options weren't choosen at all
19:41 < paul424> chosen*
19:41 < MrElendig> hmm, seems like onyx international is in .ru now
19:42 < MrElendig> mash the buttons?
19:42 < MrElendig> onyx is a bit of a mess btw, there are 3 different companies or something like that
19:42 < paul424> from what  I deduce from the mentioned support page it shouild at least print the info " delete all user data - reboot ? "
19:42 < MrElendig> with different devices depending on the area
19:43 < paul424> mash ,,, err smash ? sorry I am not English native :P
19:43 < Ignacy> sudo mount -t ntfs-3g -o gid=$(id -g),uid=$(id -u),dmask=022,ro /dev/sdb1 /media/windows  to make it run in read only mode? seems legit?
19:44 < MrElendig> try it and see :)
19:44 < Ignacy> thanks everyone very much. I'm glad I've asked it. The whole point is that I'm replying to him on some board, and leaving the house. So I wont be there and I don't have immidiate feedback.
19:45 < Ignacy> it's some other guy on the internet that has that problem.
19:45 < MrElendig> could just use the stadard dmask and just ro
19:45 < pankaj> My interest from programming is going away first time. I do not know how to keep it.
19:46 < Ignacy> eat shrooms, ask spirits for guidance.
19:48 < paul424> MrElendig, naah It ought to be choosen by power button
19:48 < gnulligan> jim: ok thanks for explaining, I'll use less abbreviations
19:48 < paul424> not the pencil :(
19:48 < jim> gnulligan, thanks, I appreciate that
19:49 < MrElendig> pankaj: go on a aliexpress spree and then go play with some hardware
19:49 < Ignacy> btw, MrElendig, are you by any chance norwegian/dutch?
19:49 < MrElendig> Ignacy: sort of
19:50 < MrElendig> Ignacy: until we go "screw you guys" and run off with all the oil and fish
19:51 < Ignacy> I'm in Trondheim, good luck running away. #polishinvasion
19:53 < Isky> LOL
19:54 < kingrodian> yeah, my building is already full of polish workers
19:55 < paul424> Wait for me , for me I also want to go Norway
19:55 < paul424> I can repair broken Onyx ereaders now
19:55 < Dagmar> Well, at least everything is shiny now.
19:56 < dannylee> ji
19:56 < paul424> MrElendig, naah I have the ereder working now, many thanks again
19:57 < hassoon> 'evening
19:59 < thxffo> i am running a go program to test for an asymmetric hashing bug, when the program runs i try to do a >> output.txt but the the stuff on screen is not going to file, any ideas?
19:59 < MrElendig> work work drynk fyght!
19:59 < MrElendig> thxffo: &>>
19:59 < Isky> NFS file locking is going to drive me to drink.. and maybe fight.
20:00 < thxffo> ok let me try that
20:00 < MrElendig> thxffo: if it prints to stderr too  (requires a sane shell)
20:00 < MrElendig> 2>&1 if some ancient horrible shell
20:00 < ice9> when i launch a container i get "Error: Failed container creation: No root device could be found"
20:01 < Dagmar> Isky: You're at least using NTFS4, right?
20:01 < Dagmar> er NFS4
20:01 < thxffo> it is just stdout
20:05 < Todden> On linux lite i set the password for my account to blank and now it wont let me change it,it wont accept a blank one
20:05 < Todden> What do?
20:06 < Isky> Don't set a blank password?
20:06 < Isky> You could set it and go remove it from passwd and shadow, I suppose.
20:06 < Todden> I know now to do that Isky
20:06 < BCMM> Todden: why do you want a blank password?
20:07 < Todden> Boot is encrypted
20:07 < Todden> If the laptop is on,i dont mind anyone who goes near it
20:07 < Isky> Dagmar: I was trying to force 3, because it works on an RHEL6 nfs server with an RHEL5 client.. but it didn't help, so I took the version specification out. The client and server are OL7 for the system not working. It's particularly with fcntl that it doesn't work.
20:07 < Todden> But how do i remove it from passswd and shadow
20:07 < Dagmar> As root you can set it regardless
20:07 < BCMM> seems like a case for automatic login, not a blank password
20:07 < ananke> Isky: how did you 'set to blank'?
20:08 < Todden> idk i just tried setting the password to nothing,it worked
20:08 < BCMM> Todden: are you trying to set the password to something other than blank, but the tool you're using to change it won't accept your current password?
20:08 < Dagmar> Isky: Well, NFSv3 doesn't support flock() is part of the problem
20:08 < BCMM> Todden: trying to understand your initial message here
20:08 < Todden> Np
20:08 < Dagmar> This is pretty much the reason a lot of stuff still uses BSD-style .lock files
20:08 < Todden> I am trying now to do anything
20:08 < ananke> Isky: oops, wrong person, sorry
20:08 < Isky> delete the x in the second field in /etc/passwd for no password.. so it's like user::stuff:stuff
20:08 < Todden> As it wont take a password at all for any task
20:08 < Isky> ananke: ahh
20:08 < ananke> Todden: login as root
20:09 < Isky> Dagmar: it's not using flock. It's using fcntl, and I can't promise v3 does support it, because that's what we're using on the system that works
20:09 < Todden> It was the root PW i changed
20:09 < Todden> I cant get into root
20:09 < Isky> Todden: reboot to single user mode
20:09 < macwinner> hi, my server was built with a single partion without any swap.  Is it possible to add swap space without needed to rebuild the box?
20:09 < Todden> Im unsure how to do that,linux lite
20:10 < Todden> Sorry
20:10 < macwinner> centos 7
20:10 < Todden> Im quite new to Linux
20:10 < ananke> Todden: google for 'reset root password <your distro here>'
20:10 < Dagmar> macwinner: You can make a swap file and tell them system to use that
20:10 < Todden> I can get into another account
20:10 < macwinner> dogmar, cool, thank you!
20:10 < Todden> ananke, that sounds handy
20:10 < Isky> macwinner: totally possible.. create the new partition (or add a new disk), use fdisk to set the type to swap, edit your fstab to use it... then probably reboot to actually use the swap.
20:10 < Dagmar> macwinner: Basically, create an empty file of the appropriate size with dd, run mkswap on it as if it were a partition, and put it in your /etc/fstab like usual
20:11 < Isky> macwinner: oh.. sorry, you also need to makeswap
20:11 < macwinner> much appreciated. i'll look up the specific steps.
20:11 < Isky> Dagmar: ooh.. I think I'd add a new disk for swap instead of using a file, but that's a nifty suggestion.
20:11 < Dagmar> Meh.  I just make swap partitions
20:12 < Isky> Dagmar: I do, too, but in the scenario he's talking about...
20:12 < Todden> https://www.linuxliteos.com/manual/install.html#respassword to anyone else who is having this issue btw
20:12 < Todden> for future ref
20:12 < Dagmar> Unlikely
20:12 < backandforth_> Why is there sometimes package managers will search for dependencies even when dependencies have been resolved?
20:13 < Dagmar> Because they need to check the dependencies for _each_ package they install
20:13 < Dagmar> Despite being almost entirely unoptimized, our update mechanisms are still *wildly* faster than anything Microsoft has ever produced
20:14 < Todden> ananke, thanks mate
20:14 < backandforth_> Dagmar: AM I OK to go ahead within an installation even if I'm having that problem?
20:15 < Dagmar> What problem?
20:15 < Dagmar> I suppose you could install Slackware.
20:16 < backandforth_> Dagmar: http://dpaste.com/2SYT0B9
20:16 < Dagmar> ...then it's _explicitly_ your responsibility to be sure all dependencies are present.  ;)
20:16 < Isky> or LFS
20:16 < ayecee> like driving without a seatbelt to avoid getting chafed
20:16 < Isky> I've never had it take long to look for deps, so .. I guess I don't really care.
20:16 < Isky> ayecee: They have stuffed animals made just to fix that issue. ;)
20:17 < ayecee> large bears that sit between you and the windshield, i guess
20:17 < Isky> ayecee: small ones with seatbelt wraps on them that.. oh.. they might only work for women.
20:17 < Dagmar> If you can't drive on an empty, featureless plain without hitting something, you don't need to be driving
20:18 < ayecee> well, you say that, but that's life in the midwest
20:18 < Dagmar> If you have "life" like that inside your server, you have bigger problems that dependency resolution code isn't going to solve
20:18 < ayecee> people hitting things on empty featureless plains
20:18 < Isky> Apparently, they will stay in place even without breasts, so everyone can use them.
20:18 < Dagmar> Isky: In that pastebin'd case it looks like the repo was just down or unreachable at the time
20:18 < Isky> I just know exactly where that bear snuggles in on me. :P
20:19 < Isky> Dagmar: hmmm.. I didn't think it actually checked the repo for deps that were already installed.
20:19 < backandforth_> Dagmar: Can I ignore and continueÉ
20:19 < ayecee> try it and see
20:20 < Dagmar> backandforth_: Yeah but whatever mysqld was needing from that isn't going to work, since the repo is apparently buggered
20:20 < Dagmar> It probably isn't fatal, but it may impact LOB stuff
20:20 < Dagmar> Open http://repo.mysql.com/yum/mysql-connectors-community/el/7/x86_64/repodata/repomd in your browser
20:21 < Dagmar> Someone's repo update script is knackered
20:21 < Dagmar> I don't know what specifically is supposed to go into that file, but i'm damn sure that 'File not found."' isn't part of the format
20:21 < backandforth_> you`re missing the xml part at the end I think
20:21 < backandforth_> I looked into it and it`s an xml file with a bunch of numbers
20:22 < Dagmar> No, I am not
20:22 < Dagmar> Either the line from the pastebin was truncated or that repo is broke
20:23 < backandforth_> truncated
20:23 < backandforth_> here`s the link http://repo.mysql.com/yum/mysql-connectors-community/el/7/x86_64/repodata/repomd.xml
20:23 < Dagmar> There's also the repeated appearance of "Trying other mirror." being a pretty clear message that yum didn't like what it saw (if it was seeing anything)
20:23 < backandforth_> I don`t know what`s missing
20:24 < Dagmar> "QA"
20:25 < hexnewbie> backandforth_: Your paste is incomplete. Did it complete, fail, bail out to prompt without an error message? What was the command that produced this output?
20:25 < Dagmar> Don't worry.  After awhile when you see broken third-party repos you'll be like, "Oh is it Tuesday already?"
20:25 < hexnewbie> backandforth_: Is there an error message anywhere at all?
20:25 < backandforth_> This pastebin looks better: http://dpaste.com/12G4ERP
20:25 < Dagmar> If I had an unlimited budget, I'd be like running an ongoing mission like Jay & Silent Bob, except I'd be flogging people who put up terrible Debian repos
20:26  * Dagmar boggles
20:26 < Isky> Dagmar: I can offer a bit of money to fund that quest!
20:27 < Dagmar> hexnewbie: Other than possible MITM skullduggery or a complete failure to notice there's a proxy required for the company LAN, I've no idea WTF a 401 is showing up there
20:27 < Dagmar> The site totally doesn't require authentication
20:27 < backandforth_> sorry hexnewbie, here`s the whole thing http://dpaste.com/0GG491E
20:27 < Dagmar> backandforth_: Is this on some kind of private corporate network
20:28 < backandforth_> yes
20:28 < Dagmar> You need to configure things to use your proxy credentials then
20:28 < Dagmar> https://www.centos.org/docs/5/html/yum/sn-yum-proxy-server.html
20:29 < Dagmar> ...although since this looks like a capture portal issue, you may be just SOL unless they're using some kind of whitelist and you can login with lynx or something
20:29 < Dagmar> It's generally *not* a good idea to MITM traffic like what is apparently going on there
20:30 < Dagmar> i.e., your yum is *not* actually contacting the mysql.org site, but hitting some bloody capture portal on your corporate network
20:30 < Dagmar> Might need to contact your netsec people and ask them to whitelist the thing
20:31 < backandforth_> There must be a way I can do it without using a proxy
20:31 < Dagmar> For sure they have created a nice problem for you
20:31 < Dagmar> backandforth_: Hit up http://repo.mysql.com with lynx and see if the guilty parties show a support number to call
20:32 < Dagmar> That server does *not* normally require authentication of any kind, so the 401 is likely coming from some other server that got the request
20:33 < Dagmar> If yum can reach the CentOS mirrors without a fight, you probably do need to talk to your netsec people about getting the mysql.com site into the same whitelist
20:33 < Dagmar> Make those bishes work for their fancy titles.  ;)
20:33 < mikister> Hi guys, I got newb question, what is the "user@linuxpc:~$" thing in the terminal called
20:33 < ayecee> the prompt
20:34 < Isky> mikister: a prompt
20:34 < Dagmar> "The prompt"
20:34 < Kharma> PS1
20:34 < Kharma> :p
20:34 < BCMM> mikister: also sometimes the "PS1", after the environment variable that decides what's in it
20:34 < mikister> Thanks guys
20:35 < Dagmar> ...which is probably "gerschlockenschliebrossen" in German
20:38 < Isky> Dagmar: my brain keeps trying to translate that. :P
20:38 < Dagmar> Isky: If you speak German you know exactly what kind of joke i'm making there.  ;)
20:38 < Isky> Dagmar: I know anglo saxon.. sometimes that's enough for German, and sometimes it's not.
20:38 < Dagmar> "Why adopt words from other languages when we can just pack a whole sentence without the whitespace?"
20:39 < jamithy> Dagmar - is that even a word?
20:39 < Isky> Dagmar: but I know enough german to have gotten that joke, yes. :P
20:39 < Dagmar> jamithy: Oh heck no
20:39 < Isky> I'm just like.. "lure"? "close"? wtf does that say?!
20:39 < Dagmar> ...although it *might* be because German
20:39 < Isky> It does contain at least two valid words. :P
20:39 < jamithy> i thought so, i just asked my german gf :)
20:39 < seven-eleven> hi, is it safe to use a website to generate a password? I need to create a few passwords and im too lazy to create them manually
20:39 < Dagmar> lol
20:40 < Dagmar> seven-eleven: Do you trust some random stranger to make up your passwords?
20:40 < Pentode> too lazy to just type a line of random characters? ;p
20:40 < jamithy> just hit some random keys on the keyboard
20:40 < Dagmar> If you want to be *super* lazy, just go copy sections of ciphertext from /etc/shadow
20:41 < Dagmar> As an added bonus it'll confuse the hell out of anyone who actually cracks that
20:41 < Pentode> lol
20:41 < Dagmar> "Wait... why did I get a salted ciphertext back?"
20:41 < seven-eleven> Dagmar, the passwords are used only locally and my WAN IP is dynamic, so it should be relatively hard to for the website where the password is used, but else I agree I don't trust a stranger
20:41 < Isky> cat a specific amount of characters from /dev/urandom?
20:41 < Isky> seven-eleven: you can get scripts to run at command line to generate passwords for you
20:41 < seven-eleven> Dagmar, i like to use memorable passwords, like bitcoins seed
20:41 < Dagmar> or phone apps
20:42 < Dagmar> I just modify builds of Keepass
20:42 < seven-eleven> yeah that would be better, some script or app creating memorable passwords
20:42 < hexnewbie> seven-eleven: Use ‘apg -a 0 -m30’ for pronounceable passwords, or ‘apg -a 1 -m30’ for random ones. You don't have to use the whole string
20:42 < seven-eleven> memorable passwords are just english dictionary words randomly put together
20:42 < Dagmar> One too many times of seeing it generate 0O0i1Ij;OOo0 as a password
20:42 < Isky> I write down the first 5 words that come to mind. It tends to work.. but I know bits and pieces of 14 languages, so I may have an advantage there.
20:44 < ayecee> especially when swearing
20:44 < hexnewbie> seven-eleven: Or pick 5 random words from the dictionary and remember them: echo $(cat /usr/share/dict/american-english | shuf | head -n5)
20:44 < ayecee> it would be better if they weren't from a dictionary
20:44 < jamithy> you're safe until they do a brute-force dictionary attack :P
20:45 < jamithy> agreed :)
20:45 < ayecee> well, a dictionary permutation attack
20:45 < BCMM> i have changed all my passwords to "correct horse battery staple", which has been mathematically demonstrated to be the most secure password
20:45 < seven-eleven> hexnewbie, thanks!! the random dictionary words are exactly what I need. I prefer dictionary words over pronounceable passwords
20:45 < Todden> Error found when loading root/.profile
20:45 < Todden> mesg: ttyname failed : inappropriate ioctl for device
20:45 < hexnewbie> ayecee: xkcd tends to disagree, and provides statistics to support it. I do use random character passwords, though.
20:45 < Todden> What is this?
20:45 < MrElendig> Todden: less .profile
20:45 < seven-eleven> ayecee, nah, dictionary is too big, that's what they make bitcoin seeds of, so it has to be safe :)
20:45 < Todden> Delete the file?
20:46 < Todden> I dont like that idea
20:46 < MrElendig> Todden: that is not what I said at all
20:46 < MrElendig> man less
20:46 < ayecee> hexnewbie: huh. how many words in your dictionary?
20:46 < BCMM> ayecee: seriously though, there's obviously less entropy per character in dictionary words, but our ability to remember them outweighs that
20:46 < hexnewbie> ayecee: wc -l /usr/share/dict/american-english says 99171
20:46 < BCMM> ayecee: i.e. you can remember a *much* longer password with dictionary words
20:47 < seven-eleven> hexnewbie, mine says 102305
20:47 < Isky> BCMM: yeah, and since we can remember them, we can have much longer passphrases, which makes them harder to crack.
20:47 < mous> my username is password and my password is username
20:47 < mous> hack proof
20:47 < BCMM> ayecee: basically one should be looking at the difficulty to remember:difficulty to bruteforce ratio
20:48 < ayecee> eh. 99171^5 looks like it has pretty good value.
20:48 < BCMM> ayecee: https://xkcd.com/936/ illustrates it well
20:48 < superkuh> I make sure to outline exactly how I pick my passwords on public spaces to help any attacker narrow it down.
20:49 < ayecee> takes longer than going through the permutations of a 12 character password
20:49 < Todden> So is this an issue i need to fix
20:49 < Todden> You said less .profile
20:49 < seven-eleven> just don't use "correct horse battery staple" as your password :P
20:49 < Todden> err
20:49 < ayecee> four words is a bit weaker though
20:49 < jamithy> at least pluralise it first if you do :P
20:50 < BCMM> superkuh: eh, password generation schemes are like encryption algorithms. if they're good, knowing which one you're using doesn't substantially impact security
20:50 < Todden> im confused
20:50 < Todden> I did base my PW off that on anotehr PC
20:50 < Todden> But not on this one
20:50 < Todden> And trust me,its far off
20:50 < hexnewbie> The problem with ‘correct horse battery staple’ is how many web sites and programs out there would truncate it to 10 characters or refuse it as too long
20:50 < BCMM> if anything that xkcd lowballs the entropy in passphrases by using very common words
20:50 < seven-eleven> ayecee, i think bitcoin seeds use 7 words
20:50 < Todden> My password is err..6 chars
20:50 < BCMM> by accepting some slightly odd words you can increase it significantly
20:51 < ayecee> 123456
20:51 < Todden> So that aint the issue
20:51 < Todden> Nah its a name converted to numbers
20:51 < superkuh> That's the password on my luggage!
20:51 < Todden> Eg A=01
20:51 < ayecee> Todden: that's a very weak password then
20:51 < Todden> ayecee, Idgaf,the laptop itself is encrypted with no battery
20:51 < meyou_> so it's a 3 letter name converted to a 6 digit number
20:51 < meyou_> oof
20:51 < Todden> Pull the power and its out
20:52 < meyou_> that's if they let you pull the powah
20:52 < ayecee> and protected by a 6 char password
20:52 < Todden> Good point
20:52 < Todden> but theres nothing on this laptop tbh
20:52 < Todden> its a basic "by the bed" laptop
20:52 < Todden> for late night googling,skype calls with my LDR etc
20:52 < hexnewbie> meyou_: 011401 is a strong password, indeed!
20:53 < ayecee> being uninteresting is a great step towards security
20:53 < Todden> Well not skype...as skype is now apparently toxic
20:53 < ayecee> as is the LDR
20:54 < Todden> How so
20:54 < ayecee> idk just something to say
20:54 < Todden> Most security breaches come from relationships?
20:54 < ayecee> if i had a clock, i'd be watching it
20:55 < Todden> Also i know what i did to give that error
20:55 < Todden> I clicked like...3 boxes
20:55 < Todden> Start XCFE,Start GNOME and another desktop environment
20:56 < Todden> So its trying to load 3 at once
20:56 < Todden> lol
20:58 < Todden> noice,smort
20:58 < ellyacht> can someone explain to me why its bad to run a driver I got from nvidia instead of the driver manager version
20:59 < Sitri> "driver manager"?  What?
20:59 < Todden> Ubuntu's driver manager
20:59 < Todden> Assume
20:59 < ayecee> because you may have to do the same installation each time other packages update, and often without warning
20:59 < ayecee> would be called package manager, not driver manager
20:59 < Todden> Also guys for a laptop that runs linux lite OK,what would you guys recommend...as a more feature full package
20:59 < Todden> Its a bad laptop(Inspiron 1520)
21:00 < Bashing-om> ellyacht: Nvidia says " Note that many Linux distributions provide their own packages of the NVIDIA Linux Graphics Driver in the distribution's native package management format. This may interact better with the rest of your distribution's framework, and you may want to use this rather than NVIDIA's official package.
21:00 < ayecee> lubuntu
21:00 < Bashing-om> "
21:00 < Todden> Lubuntu you think?
21:00 < triceratux> canonical may know more about how they put their distro together than you do
21:00 < Todden> Itll run it ok on an Inspiron 1520
21:00 < ellyacht> Bashing-om: may want to use this rather...
21:00 < ellyacht> so I mean would it hurt to try the other one?
21:00 < Todden> Eh why not
21:01 < ellyacht> I mean its a brand new laptop like literally days old I would Like to see what VR is capable of and what
21:01 < Todden> VR is allegedly cool AF
21:02 < Todden> I had some friends who used it on LSD,apparently its the coolest thing you will ever experience
21:02 < ayecee> that's illegal
21:02 < Todden> Posession is,usage is not
21:02 < Todden> technically
21:02 < ayecee> better use it before they catch me
21:02 < ellyacht> Todden: I like the way you think
21:02 < ellyacht> !\
21:02 < birdbolt1> how to kill nginx completely please?
21:03 < Todden> Cyberpolice are on their way ayecee
21:03 < Todden> birdbolt1, shotgun
21:03 < birdbolt1> shotgun nginx?
21:03 < ayecee> too late, already tripping balls
21:03 < birdbolt1> waitt... you're fucking with me..
21:03 < Todden> Lol no man i was joking
21:03 < Todden> A literal shotgun
21:03 < ellyacht> ok so how do I run the driver I just downloaded from nvidia
21:03 < Todden> Haha
21:03 < Todden> Hang on,ill try find out
21:03 < birdbolt1> haha sorry i im too wound up rn
21:03 < Todden> np
21:03 < Todden> I know the feel
21:03 < birdbolt1> got django and react screwing me mercilessly
21:03 < Todden> After you fix this,i advise a break
21:03 < Todden> this happened to me the other day
21:04 < Todden> try /etc/init.d/nginx stop
21:04 < birdbolt1> indeed, i'll need it
21:04 < Todden> or ps aux | grep nginx
21:04 < ayecee> or service nginx stop
21:04 < Todden> Then use the response from that to format this : kill -9 2124  # tried with kill -QUIT 2124, kill -KILL 2124
21:04 < Todden> Finally ps aux | grep nginx to check
21:04 < Todden> I mean....it should work
21:05 < birdbolt1> wonderful
21:05 < Todden> Oh come on,this is the 2nd USB stick to die on me
21:05 < Todden> in like a week
21:05 < Todden> It work?
21:06 < birdbolt1> yep, thanks!
21:06 < Todden> Whose idea?
21:06 < Todden> Im betting on ayecee
21:06 < birdbolt1> the init.d method
21:06 < Todden> NOICE
21:06 < Todden> Im getting better at this crap
21:07 < Todden> Granted most of it is copy and pasted notes
21:07 < birdbolt1> I just restarted out of some frustration with node, and and nginx was hogging the default port my docker container was publishing to
21:07 < Kharma> Why didn't you just change the port docker published to? :p
21:07 < ayecee> sounds like quite the flustercluck you've got going on there
21:07 < birdbolt1> cuz i'd have to build a again, im using docker compose
21:07 < Todden> Last week ive had no internet due to starting service with talktalk,4 engineer visits(one was the same guy twice),one guy at the call centre who failed to escalate the issue,first engneer didnt bother checking the fibre box at all
21:08 < rasputozen> what do you think of this idea: an operating system file handler that allows files within files, implemented by having file-delimiter strings within the file to slice up the contents
21:08 < Todden> Final one was told it was a phone line issue,he was not ADSL trained he just guessed at everything and got it working...so i know frustration
21:08 < ayecee> rasputozen: it's not clear what problem this idea solves
21:08 < Todden> Then i phone up for my PPPoA password as i gotta phone from the landline but i have no landline,first call centre guy tells me he cantget it for me says its impossible...the second one gets it for me right away
21:08 < rasputozen> the syntax would be just treating the file as a directory
21:09 < Todden> So birdbolt1 ,take a break
21:09 < rasputozen> ayecee: really fast prototyping since you could edit multiple files within a single buffer unobtrusively
21:10 < ayecee> who has this problem of being limited to single files?
21:10 < rasputozen> no one is, it would just be a convenience
21:10 < ayecee> for who?
21:10 < rasputozen> someone that wants to prototype quickly
21:11 < ayecee> and only has one buffer to work with, i guess
21:11 < rasputozen> one buffer can be nice
21:11 < BCMM> rasputozen: not sure about the implementation, amongst numerous problems it seems like it would restrict fs implementation in performance0amaging ways
21:12 < rasputozen> to have the syntax to access files within files be to just add a '/' after the file, it probably could be built on top of the normal file handler calls without changing the old code
21:12 < BCMM> but there is, on the face of it, no solid reason that directories can't have their own file data as well as containing other inodes
21:12 < rasputozen> so no performance hit
21:12 < ayecee> eh. write a patch, see how it comes out.
21:12 < BCMM> it's just the convention that we've ended up with
21:13 < BCMM> a lot of other tree structures in use allow something to be perform a function in its own right as well as having subordinate nodes
21:13 < BCMM> ^to perform
21:13 < ayecee> might try modifying an editor instead of kernel to rapidly prototype this.
21:14 < rasputozen> on the face of it seems interesting, no?
21:14 < ayecee> no, the opposite of that.
21:14 < ayecee> it seems like a heavy-handed solution to a contrived problem.
21:14 < rasputozen> well its just giving you more without taking anything away
21:14 < Todden> Oh btw birdbolt1 after kill -9 the process is doomed
21:15 < Todden> Like it will die,no matter what
21:15 < Todden> Only problem is if it has a child or parent thats also hanging
21:15 < Pentode> zombies are a pain
21:15 < birdbolt1> lol Todden
21:15 < Todden> braaaainnnzzzzzz
21:16 < Pentode> you have to hit em in the head real hard
21:16 < Todden> What is dead may never die
21:16 < MrElendig> cgroups are handy for killing off whole families
21:16 < Todden> Lol
21:16 < Todden> We need a ~quotes botr
21:16 < Todden> bot
21:16 < Todden> Tripsit has one,everyone has hilarious quotes
21:17 < BCMM> surprised i don't see this channel on bash.org more
21:18 < MrElendig> Todden: you should play DF: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=38863.0
21:18 < Pentode> neat. never knew about bash.org
21:18 < BCMM> oh man DF is bad for your search history
21:18 < Todden> Lets check it out
21:19 < rasputozen> so you could do something like 'cat ~/foo.txt/c ~/foo.txt/b ~/foo.txt/a' to print files in reverse order or 'cat foo.txt' to print them all sequentially along with their delimiter strings, and then also edit '~/foo.txt' to edit them all at once in a single buffer
21:19 < Todden> Ahh dwarf fortress
21:19 < Todden> Honestly I checked it out and it doesnt seem quite like me,some bits do
21:19 < BCMM> df is why i recently tried to google the difference between corpses and refuse
21:19 < Todden> I like the construction aspect but the top down stuff reallly doesnt appeal to me
21:20 < BCMM> Todden: top down as in the graphical presentation? or the micromanagement thing?
21:20 < rasputozen> if you use vim you can then do regex search and replace for multiple closely related files very simply and easily
21:20 < Todden> The graphical presentation
21:20 < rasputozen> i mean any editor can do that im  sure
21:20 < Todden> Also we need a quote bot because of pages like this: http://prntscr.com/jy6m3z
21:20 < BCMM> Todden: i can't see how else you'd present it, really
21:21 < Todden> Its just not "me",i dont like games like that with few exceptions like FTL
21:21 < BCMM> Todden: people always complain about the graphics, but i think that's the first time i've heard somebody complain specifically about the *perspective*
21:21 < BCMM> but safe the say the visuals are not really the "thing" about df
21:21 < Todden> BCMM, I like to be specific
21:22 < no_gravity> Hello! What is a good way to install a small linux distro with a gui?
21:22 < BCMM> the awesome thing is how emergent and unscripted things are
21:22 < MrElendig> df can look pretty nice though
21:22 < ayecee> no_gravity: have someone else do it
21:22 < Todden> Visuals arent an instant NO for me but visuals like that make it very difficult for me to enjoy a game
21:22 < jamithy> just download the iso image
21:22 < Todden> I do like good visuals
21:22 < no_gravity> jamithy: Which one?
21:22 < Todden> Like...Half life 1 is ok with me
21:22 < jamithy> and then you can try it as a live CD, and see that it works with your hardware
21:22 < ayecee> no_gravity: fetch the nearest child of five to set it up for you :D
21:22 < bls> no_gravity: any of them
21:23 < triceratux> no_gravity: swagarch iso https://swagarch.gitlab.io/#download
21:23 < Todden> As for other styles,depends on the game like FTL
21:23 < jamithy> no_gravity: have you used linux before?
21:23 < Todden> BCMM,
21:23 < BCMM> Todden: like, everything in the game happens for a reason that is simulated in an excessively reductionist way, so the whole thing becomes an excercise in taking stupid stuff to it's logical conclusions
21:23 < BCMM> but in a good way
21:24 < jamithy> no_gravity: if not try something like linuxmint.com
21:24 < Todden> Give me an example,that sounds interesting
21:24 < Todden> Im a curious guy
21:24 < BCMM> like, the answer to "can i do X" is almost never "no, because the developers didn't specifically think of that"
21:24 < no_gravity> jamithy: Linux is my daily driver since the 90s. I think Debian 1 or Debian 2 was my first distro.
21:24 < bls> no_gravity: then why not continue to use debian?
21:25 < Todden> Thats interesting BCMM ,i do like games that are very open ended
21:25 < BCMM> Todden: have you seen the famous bug with the cat vomit?
21:25 < Todden> I have not
21:25 < Todden> Link it..i love this,ive got hexchat on 1 monitor the other monitoring like 4 systems,a laptop on my left and a TV infront of me
21:25 < Todden> Plus im on a comfy sofa chair
21:25 < BCMM> Todden: well obviously this isn't really an example of things working as intended but it shows how hilarious in-depth some aspects are:
21:26 < Todden> feel like l33t hax0rman
21:26 < no_gravity> bls: That's an option. I usually use it with the Mate desktop. But now I just want to build a very small VM. So just a window manager would be better.
21:26 < bls> Todden: the best intro to the game I've ever seen is Boat Murdered if you can still find a copy
21:26 < ayecee> Todden: i can do that just by not showering for a few days
21:26 < MrElendig> Todden: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaifrB5IrvGNPJmPeVOcqBA
21:27 < Todden> ayecee, the ability to hack actually is directly correlated with the number of days you havent showered
21:27 < ayecee> heh
21:27 < Todden> You dont shower for a month you get pentagon acccess
21:27 < bls> Todden: it's a group of people handing the game off to one another and narrating and illustrating the odd things that the game engine made happen
21:27 < BCMM> Todden: basically there was an issue were cats were walking through spilled beer, and then later cleaning themselves and thus ingesting the beer, getting drunk and throwing up (due to a bug in how the dose of alcohol was calculated for the cats, i think)
21:27 < Todden> Ill stick that on screen 3
21:27 < Todden> tHATS JUST A CHANNEL
21:28 < Todden> *Caps
21:28 < gnulligan> I'm trying to change the text color in grub.cfg
21:28 < gnulligan> it says set color_normal=black/black
21:28 < gnulligan> but my background is black, so I want the text to be grey if not selected
21:28 < gnulligan> would that be color_normal=grey/black or gray/black ?
21:28 < BCMM> Todden: actually the bugs are the best bit of df https://twitter.com/DwarfFortBugs
21:28 < BCMM> "Caravan won't leave after it was spooked by an otter"
21:28 < Todden> I am ot sure this is my sort of thing,i play fortnite StW/Red Alert type C&C games,FPS games,used to play minecraft heavily modded so i could build like...particle accelerators
21:29 < Todden> Ive logged 3k+ hours on GMOD,used to love TTT
21:29 < Todden> Oh and EVE Online
21:29 < Todden> But no time for that nowadayss
21:29 < Todden> Thanks anyway
21:30 < BCMM> Todden: building ridiculous stuff a la minecraft is what df is for
21:30 < jamithy> does minecraft work on linux?
21:30 < MrElendig> yes
21:30 < jamithy> oh cool :)
21:30 < MrElendig> both the original and several clones
21:30 < no_gravity> I think I will try the Marco window manager.
21:30 < Todden> I used to love those base building servers,where you'd raid each other
21:30 < no_gravity> Will 'apt install marco' be enough to run desktop aps? How do I start it then? Just 'startx'?
21:31 < BCMM> Todden: oh i thought of one! somebody built a bunch of minecarts out of lead specifically so they could crush goblins when they derail
21:31 < MrElendig> no_gravity: will have to update your .xinitrc too
21:31 < Todden> Also im getting unsafe swap space on lubuntu install from liveCD but im saying to erase the whole disk
21:31 < Todden> so wat
21:31 < Todden> Shall i just...go into gparted and erase the disk myself
21:31 < MrElendig> BCMM: can have them crash into a fortification and have the content fly onwards too
21:31 < no_gravity> MrElendig: how so?
21:31 < gnulligan> I'm trying to change the text color in grub.cfg
21:31 < gnulligan> it says set color_normal=black/black
21:31 < MrElendig> BCMM: fun if you eg fill them with magma
21:31 < gnulligan> but my background is black, so I want the text to be grey if not selected
21:31 < gnulligan> would that be color_normal=grey/black or gray/black ?
21:32 < MrElendig> BCMM: or cats
21:32 < MrElendig> or burning cats!
21:32 < BCMM> MrElendig: i've gotta actually play with minecarts some time
21:32 < BCMM> i always end up deciding it's too complicated and just making a shaft to the bottom of the world
21:33 < bls> where the demons live?!?
21:33 < BCMM> bls: just above
21:33 < Isky> In my head? Get out of there!
21:33 < BCMM> on the grounds that i mostly move heavy things like ore down to the magma smelters, which can now just be thrown down the shaft
21:33 < BCMM> and the things that need to come back up are mostly lighter so it's ok to just haul them up by hand
21:33 < BCMM> (like finished weapons)
21:34 < UristMcRM|Tux> best use of minecarts is to fill them with serrated disks and launch them at gobs
21:34 < MrElendig> UristMcRM|Tux: burning cats!
21:34 < MrElendig> UristMcRM|Tux: or burning logs and launch them at the elfs
21:35 < UristMcRM|Tux> lol
21:35 < MrElendig> remember kids, wooden artifacts can burn forever
21:37 < BCMM> MrElendig: i hadn't though of that, but that makes a df sort of sense
21:37 < BCMM> because it's flammable and also mostly indestructible right?
21:38 < MrElendig> yea
21:38 < MrElendig> someone tried to drain a sea once
21:38 < MrElendig> by dropping one into it
21:38 < MrElendig> sadly it just lead to fps death
21:39 < BCMM> MrElendig: i can think of more obvious ways to drain a sea, but won't they just provide infinite water from off-map?
21:39 < BCMM> i've never done a coastal embark so i'm just assuming it works like a wet cavern
21:39 < MrElendig> yep
21:41 < Todden> Ok why is my lubuntu installl saying unsafe swap space
21:41 < Todden> the entire drive is unallocated
21:41 < ayecee> if only there were some way to share what you were seeing
21:41 < ayecee> but i guess we'll have to depend on vague verbal descriptions
21:42 < Todden> I am trying,hang on lol
21:42 < Todden> Im trying my own solution first
21:42 < ayecee> cool
21:42 < Todden> Only way to learn
21:42 < Todden> or cause a kernal panic
21:43 < ayecee> that's why we send kids into the world instead of school
21:43 < ayecee> and let natural selection take its course
21:43 < Todden> Indeed!
21:43 < triceratux> if only there were a way to look up similar bugreports even from the vague descriptions https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2334294
21:44 < Todden> https://askubuntu.com/questions/393418/unsafe-swap-space-detected this exact error ayecee
21:44 < Todden> Yeah i am,ofc
21:44 < Todden> I can multitask
21:44 < Todden> But i kinda need swap space right?
21:44 < Todden> Esp with a small ram lappy
21:45 < Todden> Eh ill do it without swap space see what happens
21:46 < Pentode> well depends on what you are doing. web browsing, software development and a few other things and i almost never touch my swap partition with just under 4gb of physical ram
21:46 < bls> it's possible to run without it, although it's recommended to have some
21:46 < Todden> Itll be a light "by the bed" laptop
21:47 < Todden> Reddit,skype,IRC,wickr etc
21:47 < no_gravity> How can I copy a file into virtualbox?
21:47 < Pentode> even on my thinkpad with 2gb of ram, web browsing with a million tabs is the only real risk of needing swap space
21:47 < olivetree_> shared folders
21:47 < BCMM> Todden: skype's not light
21:47 < BCMM> on ram, i mean
21:47 < Todden> https://www.cnet.com/products/dell-inspiron-1520/specs/ 2GB RAM
21:48 < Todden> Skype is an example sorry,i dont actually use skype
21:48 < Todden> It has somehow gone out of vogue
21:48 < Todden> Google hangouts
21:48 < Pentode> Todden, just use xfce or lxde or something. or even better, some light standalone window manager and you'll be fine IMO
21:48 < BCMM> it's an electron app (or some other web-engine based junk)
21:48 < Sitri> Hangouts has been replaced
21:48 < Pentode> my thinkpad boots into xfce in under 200mb of ram
21:48 < Todden> With what Sitri ?
21:48 < Sitri> Chat or something
21:48 < Todden> I use it on my phone as i canphone US phone numbers for free
21:48 < Todden> From the UK
21:49 < Todden> Same for PC
21:49 < Todden> They arent getting rid of hangouts are they?,i NEED it
21:49 < ayecee> probably a simple rename
21:50 < Sitri> "On March 9, 2017, Google announced that it would be evolving Hangouts into two products: Hangouts Meet and Hangouts Chat. Hangouts Meet would focus on video conferences and Hangouts Chat would be focused on instant messaging with additional features such as bot assistant and threaded messaging."
21:50 < BCMM> Todden: is wickr another of those IM platforms with a huge web-based desktop client?
21:50 < Todden> Yeah
21:50 < Todden> Its way bloated
21:50 < BCMM> Todden: you might be interested in Rambox,
21:50 < Pentode> Todden, ddr2 sdram is super cheap.
21:50 < BCMM> which lets you use a bunch of different services like that with just one electron instance
21:50 < paulcarroty> inspiron 1520? remember this crap
21:51 < BCMM> (does hangouts too)
21:51 < bls> heh, yet another "hipsters reinvent IRC/AIM, poorly"
21:51 < Todden> 30MB RAM so its not THAT bloated
21:51 < Pentode> paulcarroty, they weren't too bad.
21:51 < Todden> Wickr that is
21:51 < Todden> And yeah I need the feature UK>US free calling
21:51 < Todden> Like i need it
21:51 < BCMM> bls: i miss when there was such a thing as an instant messaging protocol
21:52 < paulcarroty> Pentode, too bad
21:52 < Pentode> lol
21:52 < BCMM> bls: now there's all these services where basically their web interface and their phone app are literally the only ways to interact with them
21:52 < Todden> Pentode, Yeah ill be buying more ram over next few months along with other upgrades
21:52 < bls> BCMM: ...with *gasp* non-monetized federation
21:52 < Todden> new job,much bigger money
21:52 < Todden> So many things which are breaking or broken
21:52 < Todden> And Rambox?
21:52 < Todden> I like downloadmoreram.com
21:52 < BCMM> bls: eh, aim and msn weren't federated to my knowledge, but at least third-party clients were possible (if not actually *supported)
21:53 < Pentode> when i worked at an electronics repair shop 1500 series weren't one of the models we had stacks of dead in the back room.. lol
21:53 < paulcarroty> Todden, just buy something better.
21:53 < BCMM> rambox is a stupid solution but only because it's solving a stupid problem
21:53 < Pentode> now those HP multimedia machines from the same era are another story, lol
21:53 < bls> BCMM: yeah, was more thinking IRC and XMPP, but at least there was client independence with oscar
21:53 < gnulligan> hey BCMM ty for the help with updating the kernel, it works great now
21:54 < BCMM> gnulligan: np!
21:54 < bls> the web/non-techies have pretty much killed the independent protocol and protcol/server/client separation
21:54 < gnulligan> last thing... now I'm trying to save a copy of the disk to a partition on it using clonezilla
21:54 < gnulligan> which is also on the disk
21:54 < BCMM> bls: facebook got me using messenger by doing xmpp, then pulled support for it once messenger had taken over the market. so damn predictable...
21:54 < gnulligan> and it fails with "No existing disk(s) or no unmounted disk(s) are found!)
21:55 < bls> yep, classic embrace, extend, extinguish. cisco did the same thing with their messaging/confercing app in the corporate world
21:55 < paulcarroty> Pentode, HP Pro series is good, but extreme bad for repair.
21:55 < gnulligan> I'm guessing the partition I'm trying to save to isn't mounted
21:55 < BCMM> bls: yeah, i reckon the last chance of doing something civilized would have been for phone vendors to agree on a federated "thing that doesn't suck as much as sms" *before* whatsapp-style apps filled that niche
21:56 < bls> will be interested to see what happens with mastodon now that FB is seeing users leave
21:58 < paulcarroty> bls, the same what happened with diaspora.
21:58 < Todden> Now ive got An error occured while configuring encrypted volumes, the configuration has been aborted
21:58 < Pentode> paulcarroty, yeah a nightmare.
21:58 < Todden> Im gonna try rufus'ing a lubuntu ISO to a USB
21:59 < ayecee> no, don't do that
21:59 < ayecee> dd or imageusb should be all you need
21:59 < Pentode> it was like the engineers started by working out how difficult they could make them to work on.
21:59 < Todden> Ive already got rufus,and i know how to use it
21:59 < Todden> in DD mode
22:00 < Todden> What are those tools?
22:00 < bls> haha, yeah, interested, not hopeful
22:00 < ayecee> dd mode, eh. sounds fine.
22:00 < Todden> Yeah its got DD mode in it
22:00 < Todden> Theres DD and ISO mode
22:00 < Todden> You can guess
22:00 < bls> at least there's still gmane getting served over NNTP!
22:01 < Pentode> paulcarroty, tho i give them the benefit of the doubt a lot of the issues were caused by the industries inexperience with new lead free solder and BGA components...
22:01 < gnulligan> OK I got it, it's because Clonezilla is on the same disk that it's trying to backup
22:02 < gnulligan> since it's on partition 5, therefore partition 5 can't be backed up
22:02 < gnulligan> because partition 5 is mounted
22:02 < gnulligan> what if I ran Clonezilla as a ramdisk?
22:02 < gnulligan> would that let it unmount its own partition?
22:03 < bls> if you're booted off the disk, you've got more to worry about than just clonezilla
22:03 < jim> Todden, well I don't have windows, so I never used rufus,,, is there an obvious choice as to its operating mode?
22:03 < Pentode> can't you just boot off a live disk and run clonezilla from there?
22:03 < no_gravity> I installed debian+xorg+marco window manager. Now starx gives me a black screen with a mouse. How can I start applications now?
22:03 < gnulligan> bls: wow so helpful thank you so much
22:04 < bls> no_gravity: put something like xterm before the window manager in your .xinitrc
22:04 < jim> no_gravity, can the wm start stuff?
22:04 < Todden> jim, yes
22:04 < bls> no_gravity: or start a tool bar or menu application
22:04 < Pentode> no_gravity, theres no configurable menu with that window manager?
22:04 < no_gravity> bls: How? All I have now is a black screen with a mouse pointer.
22:04 < bls> assuming the window manager doesn't already provide one
22:05 < no_gravity> jim: All I have now is a black screen with a mouse pointer.
22:05 < jim> Todden, ok, so there are choices... what are they?
22:05 < bls> no_gravity: either learn the keybinds for the window manager or exit and add stuff to .xinitrc from the console
22:05 < Todden> Oh nvm i know how to use it
22:05 < Todden> DD and ISO mode
22:05 < no_gravity> bls: How do I exit?
22:06 < jim> Todden, cool... so you are going to install a linux?
22:06 < bls> <Ctrl>+<Alt>+<Backspace> if your distro hasn't disabled it, otherwise, you're back to needing to learn your keybindings
22:06 < Pentode> no_gravity, you _could_ ctrl+alt+f to another terminal and run xterm there then switch back to X... lol
22:06 < Todden> Yeah i know what im doing,ive done this before with this exact OS and USB stick funnily enough
22:06 < Todden> I just had issues with my disk it was really old i think
22:06 < no_gravity> Pentode: ctrl+alt+f does nothing.
22:07 < Todden> I had linux lite didnt like it so much and bugged it out so decided to switch to something with more features even though its only an inspiron 1520 thus very weak
22:07 < Pentode> ctrl+alt+f1 for example. does nothing?
22:07 < jim> Todden, which os is it?
22:07 < Todden> Lubuntu 18.04
22:07 < no_gravity> Pentode: Yeah, it switches to a terminal on the host :)
22:07 < jim> Todden, ok... does it boot?
22:07 < Todden> Dude i havent downloaded it yet lol
22:07 < Todden> i know what im doing with it
22:07 < Todden> dw
22:07 < jim> oh ok :)
22:07 < Pentode> no_gravity, do: export DISPLAY=0.0 then run xterm. problem solved. ;)
22:08 < jim> wait, how big is it?
22:08 < no_gravity> Pentode: On the host???
22:08 < Pentode> =:0.0 sorry.
22:08 < Todden> Wasnt asking for help was updating the person earlier who asked me what i was doing with this linux lite laptop
22:08 < Todden> 1GB
22:08 < Todden> Slow net
22:08 < no_gravity> Pentode: I think this is a misunderstanding.
22:08 < triceratux> Todden: lubuntu 18.10 is better. its lxqt & the dailies are already quite solid
22:08 < no_gravity> Pentode: Doing that on the host will not have an impact on Debian running inside the VM.
22:08 < Pentode> no_gravity, apparently.
22:08 < Pentode> oh you are using a virtual machine
22:08 < no_gravity> Yup
22:08 < Todden> 17.10 is the one ive got,im downloading 18.04
22:09 < jim> a gb? does it have a smaller one? (that sounds like it could be live?)
22:09 < Todden> There is no 18.04
22:09 < Todden> *18.10
22:09 < Pentode> well just add xterm to ~/.xinitrc like mentioned above. ;)
22:09 < Todden> This is the 64 bit desktop ver
22:09 < bls> so forget all this switching consoles, go find the documentation for your window manager and learn to use it
22:09 < Todden> https://lubuntu.net/downloads/
22:09 < no_gravity> Pentode: If I could edit it. All I have is a black scren with a mouse pointer.
22:10 < no_gravity> I will just kill the VM and restart it...
22:10 < Pentode> no_gravity, theres no way to switch to another virtual terminal? what are keybindings disabled with virtual machines or something?
22:10 < Pentode> i dont have experience with those..
22:10 < jim> debian netinstall images (you'd do the same thing with them) are 1/3rd that size
22:10 < no_gravity> Pentode: I have no clue. It's VirtualBox.
22:10 < Todden> jim, http://prntscr.com/jy77le this is the 1st screen,then start will ask you to download the latest syslinux file,then itll ask for ISO or DD mode
22:10 < Pentode> hrmph
22:10 < triceratux> Todden: its a dev build so it takes some patience but its out there http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily-live/current/
22:11 < no_gravity> 'apt install vim' - here goes another 30 MB :/
22:11 < jim> is your disk already partitioned for it?
22:11 < bls> you can add all the stuff you want to .xinitrc, but you're still not going to know how to use your window manager
22:11 < Todden> triceratux, really that worth it?
22:12 < Todden> im 60% through this version,though im in no rush
22:12 < no_gravity> There is no ~/.xinitrc. Should I create it?
22:12 < Pentode> no_gravity, i'm not familiar with mate's window manager. i just cant imagine a window manager with no friggin' menu.
22:12 < Todden> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily-live/current/cosmic-desktop-amd64.iso triceratux  this one?
22:12 < Todden> And yeah jim  ofc
22:12 < Todden> Ignore the name
22:12 < no_gravity> Pentode: It's easy to imagine. Just imagine a completely black screen with a mouse pointer.
22:12 < Pentode> no_gravity, yes. and hope that the distro executes it along side the display manager. some don't.
22:13 < bls> I use a window manager with no menus...it does everything via keybindings
22:13 < Pentode> lol
22:13 < no_gravity> startx brought me to the same black screen with a mouse.
22:13 < OtakuSenpai> is there anyone who uses voidlinux here?>
22:13 < jim> a netinstall generally doesn't have a DE
22:13 < bls> I also made sure I knew how to use said window manager before settling on it for a desktop
22:13 < no_gravity> Fuck this, I will install mate-desktop-environment.
22:13 < Todden> jim, next screen: http://prntscr.com/jy795h
22:14 < Pentode> no_gravity, just install a different window manager.
22:14 < Todden> http://prntscr.com/jy79by then iso/DD
22:14 < mophed> no_gravity: what WM or DE are you using?
22:14 < jim> no_gravity, please watch your language while you're here
22:14 < no_gravity> mophed: I marco
22:14 < jim> polo?
22:15 < mophed> i marco?
22:15 < mophed> never heard of it
22:15 < no_gravity> mophed: I use marco
22:15 < no_gravity> mophed: The window manager of Mate.
22:15 < Nawab> is there anyone who uses voidlinux here?>
22:15 < Todden> triceratux, cheers mate im downloading that image now
22:15 < bls> mophed: it's the window manager from mate, it's been stripped of all the normal window manager bells and whistles under the assumption that other programs will provide the functionality
22:15 < mophed> are there any errors in the xorg log? watch journalctl while you launch it
22:15 < Todden> 1.63gb so a lil bigger,but its only 600mb and you said its better
22:15 < no_gravity> 'apt install mate-desktop-environment-core' ... there goes another 400 MB \o/
22:16 < Todden> What benefits over the live ver?
22:16 < Pentode> no_gravity, i dont know why you don't just install a different window manager if you don't want the bloat of the whole desktop environment.
22:16 < triceratux> Todden: im running it with no problem. theryre doing away with lxde for the next release & the lxqt makes it a bunch better imho
22:16 < Pentode> install windowmaker or something.
22:17 < mophed> i3 is my favorite
22:17 < no_gravity> Pentode: Well, now it's too late. Installing mate core atm.
22:17 < Todden> That doesnt make much sense to me tbh...ill be honest i am still pretty new to linux
22:17 < Pentode> lol, oh well
22:17 < Todden> Im figuring it out pretty well
22:17 < Todden> I think
22:17 < Todden> Its fun
22:18 < jim> Todden, there's generally two modes you can run a linux in, either text-only or graphical (which has terminals, so you can do the text thing there)
22:19 < Todden> Oh yeah i know that,I use both
22:19 < Todden> I'd say 80% GUI,20% terminal
22:19 < jim> the text move (or graphic with terminal) is the most expressive
22:19 < Nawab> is there anyone who uses voidlinux here?
22:19 < jim> I haven't
22:20 < no_gravity> Nawab: What is voidlinux?
22:20 < thxffo> anyone have ideas what would be causing an authentication error with kafka: ssl certs authentication failed due to invalid credentials 
22:20 < Pazooza> Never heard of it.
22:20 < Todden> Ive never heard of it
22:20 < Todden> And ive heard of most things
22:20 < Nawab> https://voidlinux.org/
22:20 < Nawab> no_gravity, ^
22:20 < no_gravity> Nawab: I see.
22:21 < Nawab> i like their package manbagfement system
22:21 < Todden> What are the benefits to it
22:21 < Pazooza> But nice wrightup in Wikipedia.
22:21 < Nawab> much easier n hasslefree
22:21 < Todden> "XBPS source packages collection." sounds good
22:21 < no_gravity> "Not a fork!". I guess VOID then stands for "VOid Is not Debian"
22:22 < Todden> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Void_Linux
22:22 < Pazooza> Used runit instead of systemd.
22:22 < Todden> Hahah
22:22 < gnulligan> could someone help me with getting clonezilla working? I'm running clonezilla from a hard disk and need it to backup that entire hard disk (including itself) to another partition on that same disk, but whenever I try to run it I get the error "no existing disk found". I noticed that the clonezilla partition didn't show up, but it shows up if clonezilla is run with the "toram" option
22:22 < jim> that's good, I need a spoon anyway
22:22 < Todden> no_gravity, p good
22:22 < gnulligan> however it still gives the same error even when run from ram
22:23 < jim> I'll try to help you out in a bit
22:23 < gnulligan> ok thanks jim
22:24 < Todden> jim, how many times have people told you a PC is dead
22:24 < Todden> you hear about my freecom external CD drive?
22:24 < Todden> Its dead jim
22:24 < Dagmar> You shouldn't have left it in that hot car with the windows rolled up
22:25 < no_gravity> Todden: ?
22:25 < Nawab> anyone hav any knbowledge about network manager?
22:25 < Dagmar> Also, I'm pretty sure backing up an entire disk to a single partition on that same disk will violate space-time causality
22:25 < fryguy> just ask the question you really want to ask
22:25 < sstory> I would like to use tar on one machine to tar a directory and contents, a file from another directory and a file from yet another and then untar it on another machine and everything restore to the same locations. Is that possible?
22:25 < Nawab> ok
22:26 < Todden> noodle, the linux distro
22:26 < Todden> Looks pretty good
22:26 < Todden> Void
22:26 < sstory> When I did the tar originally it said / removed
22:26 < Todden> Dagmar, I honestly dont know how it died
22:26 < Dagmar> sstory: THat's pretty much the default operational mode for tar.  It preserves the paths to anything you stick in an archive by default
22:26 < Dagmar> Todden: Next time crack a window.  ;)
22:26 < Nawab> so when i start nm ... after a while it stops and creates anew connection with the same name and then it continues connecting and disconnecting
22:27 < Todden> It goes well with my Atapi iHAS124 drive
22:27 < Todden> Which is also dead,my internal drive
22:27 < Todden> So i got two dead CD drives
22:27 < Dagmar> Opticals occasionally die
22:27 < no_gravity> Strange, when I run startx as root, it works. But then I do it as a normal user, I end up in a black screen with a little white terminal.
22:27 < Nawab> https://askubuntu.com/questions/623940/network-manager-how-to-stop-nm-updating-etc-resolv-conf  how do i use this post's info to fix network manager in my voidlinux system
22:27 < Todden> Ive ordered a eplacement one though
22:27 < sstory> Dagmar: I thought so, but untarring isn't working
22:27 < Dagmar> Frankly I'm surprised the one I have now still works
22:27 < Pazooza> Windows should automatically roll down when the temp reaches 90.
22:27 < Sitri> sstory: cd to the lowest common directory (might be /), then tar c dir1 dir2 dir3 dir4 | ssh username@host tar -C /common/directory x
22:27 < Todden> idk why my CD drives keep dying
22:27 < Dagmar> sstory: You have to tell tar the full path to the files when you tar them up
22:27 < Todden> I mean i only occasionally use them as cup holders
22:28 < macwinner> I'm trying to replace an existing server with a brand new physical server that should be almost identically.  If I want the sshd server configs and keys to be copied over, do I just need to make sure /etc/ssh is copied?
22:28 < Todden> And i did once get like...a substantial amount of human blood in there
22:28 < Todden> Well no like 10ml
22:28 < sstory> Dagmar: I did something like this: tar cvfz prog.tar /usr/local/share/applications/prog.desktop /usr/share/icons/prog /usr/local/bin/prog
22:28 < Todden> So perhaps thats why
22:28 < Dagmar> sstory: If you do like, `tar -cf foo.tar /home/dagmar/blerp.txt` *that* is giving it the whole path.  You can take it to another machine and untar it from / (or specify -C / IIRC) and it'll untar blerp.txt to /home/dagmar, creating directories as needed
22:28 < Nawab> anyone can help me?
22:29 < Todden> Nawab, What do you need?
22:29 < Todden> Ghostbusters?
22:29 < Nawab> so when i start nm ... after a while it stops and creates anew connection with the same name and then it continues connecting and disconnecting
22:29 < Nawab> https://askubuntu.com/questions/623940/network-manager-how-to-stop-nm-updating-etc-resolv-conf  how do i use this post's info to fix network manager in my voidlinux system
22:29 < Dagmar> sstory: You should be able to see it showing you the paths when you do `tar -tvf prog.tar`
22:29 < sstory> Dagmar: I do, but / is missing from front of all. Is that normal?
22:30 < Dagmar> Nawab: Probably by installing Ubuntu to the machine
22:30 < Dagmar> Nawab: They have another facility that is separate from NetworkManager that handles the sort of overlapping resolv.conf scopes
22:30 < Nawab> what do you mean?
22:31 < Dagmar> sstory: Yes.  Because when I am allowed to put / at the start of a tarball's path, it allows me to do things like send people a tarball containing miscellaneous files and /etc/shadow
22:31 < sstory> Dagmar. Ok. the -C / worked. Thanks!
22:31 < Dagmar> sstory: The / will _always_ be stripped from tar archive paths.  Any tar archive that happens to have paths that start with / can safely be assumed to be malicious action
22:31 < sstory> Dagmar: Thanks!
22:32 < Dagmar> ...*to-doo-do-doooo* and now you know.
22:32 < Dagmar> Can ya tell I'm already getting prepared for my new admin gig
22:32 < Dagmar> geg
22:33 < Dagmar> Switching over to using verbiage that takes all question out of people's minds about whether or not some exploit is theoretical
22:33 < Dagmar> It keeps me from having to say, "No, we will not ignore that possibility because I have personally used it to take over someone's machine"
22:33 < n-iCe> hi
22:33 < jim> hi
22:35 < ellyacht> can someone tell me how to install an already downloaded driver? But without their suggestions and without their opinions please.
22:36 < jim> Nawab, do you want a specific name server in /etc/resolv.conf?
22:36 < Nawab> jim, i want nm to not recreate a new netwok connection and change the dns nameservers
22:36 < Nawab> i earlier set 8.8.8.8 as the dns servers
22:37 < Nawab> but nm changed it to my isp's
22:37 < jim> Nawab, and that's the name server you want?
22:37 < Nawab> yes, 8.8.8.8
22:37 < jim> (you could also run your own btw)
22:37 < Nawab> i dont hav the hardware
22:37 < jim> ok, first do this: sudo apt install resolvconf
22:38 < Nawab> jim im not in debian
22:38 < Nawab> its void linux
22:38 < jim> which doesn't have apt?
22:38 < Pazooza> Void is closer to BSD.
22:38 < Nawab> yeah
22:38 < Nawab> its xbps
22:39 < Nawab> i guess the packages should remain same
22:39 < Sitri> xbps-install -S resolvconf
22:40 < Nawab> Sitri, Unable to locate 'resolvconf' in repository pool.
22:41 < jim> Nawab, could you run this: test -e /etc/network/interfaces && echo yes || echo no
22:41 < Nawab> no
22:42 < Todden> jim, i got it
22:42 < jim> ok, hmm, ok. sorry, I don't know much about why it replaces, but I do know that dhcp can be told to write the /etc/resolv.conf file
22:42 < Todden> Setting it up to burn now
22:44 < Todden> MBR or GPT@
22:44 < Todden> I normally use MBR but i may as well ask
22:44 < gnulligan> what does the "bootfrom" linux kernel parameter do exactly?
22:45 < gnulligan> does it tell the kernel where the root filesystem is supposed to be?
22:45 < jim> there;'s a boot prompt howto
22:45 < Todden> jim, this look ok to you http://prntscr.com/jy7mpi
22:45 < Todden> its what id normally use
22:45 < jim> it talks avoutr the boot parameters
22:45 < gnulligan> jim: are you free now?
22:45 < Todden> DD mode
22:45 < jim> no not yet
22:45 < gnulligan> I found this: https://clonezilla.org/livehd.php which gives the parameters on how to use clonezilla-live from a hard disk
22:46 < Todden> Oh gnulligan  you are trying to use clonezilla?
22:46 < Todden> What for?
22:46 < gnulligan> but I don't understand why they're saying to use "bootfrom=/dev/sda4 "
22:46 < Todden> yay im useful
22:46 < gnulligan> Hey Todden I hope you can help haha
22:46 < Todden> Have you burnt the disk
22:46 < Todden> Or USB(better)
22:46 < gnulligan> I've been working on this for a few hours
22:46 < gnulligan> I have clonezilla installed to partition 5 on my hard drive
22:46 < Todden> i know the feel
22:47 < Todden> ive had 3 sleepless nights in past 7
22:47 < Todden> Why..
22:47 < Todden> Do you have it installled
22:47 < Todden> Why not run it live
22:47 < gnulligan> and I need it to backup the entire hard drive (including itself) to partition 6
22:47 < Sitri> gnulligan: https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/kernel-parameters.html
22:47 < gnulligan> Sitri: thanks I'll check that
22:47 < Todden> Clonezilla doesnt work on the drive its on afaik
22:47 < Todden> Oor it didnt used to
22:47 < gnulligan> Todden: https://clonezilla.org/livehd.php
22:47 < gnulligan> it needs to run from ram
22:48 < Todden> Yeah so why is it installed
22:48 < Todden> Youre rght tho
22:48 < maryo> I wanted to check whether a port is open on the remote machine. Is it possible to curl command to do this task as I don't have netstat or ss or telnet in the machine ?
22:48 < Todden> I can check it
22:48 < Todden> or anyone here
22:49 < Sitri> gnulligan: Actually, I don't see a bootfrom, so I'm guessing it's something that's parsed by the initrd
22:49 < Todden> Just PM the IP and we can ping on the port
22:49 < Todden> gnulligan, So what is your problem anyway
22:49 < Todden> You should be running this live not installed from a parttion imo,ESPECIALLY not the one you are cloning form
22:50 < gnulligan> according to https://clonezilla.org/livehd.php (which is the only resource I've found for this) it needs to be run with these parameters from grub: live-media-path=/live-hd bootfrom=/dev/sda4 toram=filesystem.squashfs
22:50 < gnulligan> everything makes sense except bootfrom
22:50 < gnulligan> why is bootfrom sda4?
22:50 < jim> maybe you don't have a /dev/sda4?
22:50 < moog> maryo: nmap ?
22:51 < jim> maybe it assumes you do, or is assuming specific hardware
22:51 < gnulligan> sda4 is a partition right
22:51 < gnulligan> like hard disk partition 4
22:51 < gnulligan> so is that the clonezilla partition?
22:51 < gnulligan> the partition that I'm trying to backup?
22:51 < Todden> Why not use this https://clonezilla.org/downloads/download.php?branch=stable
22:51 < gnulligan> the destination partition?
22:51 < Todden> Its just plug n play
22:51 < Todden> Clone from the disk
22:52 < Todden> No foolin around with installiing stuff
22:52 < Todden> I do not get why you INSTALLED clonella
22:52 < maryo> moog, nmap is also not available
22:52 < gnulligan> I'm tired of explaining "why", I last explained it about an hour ago so you can check the logs if you want
22:53 < moog> No idea so
22:53 < Todden> Fair enough
22:53 < Todden> Ive had that before on IRC,respect
22:53 < gnulligan> Todden: thanks for understanding haha
22:53 < jim> gnulligan, so it asked you to download a zip file?
22:54 < gnulligan> jim: what asked me?
22:54 < gnulligan> I did use a zip file to install clonezilla
22:54 < jim> the web page
22:54 < gnulligan> I downloaded clonezilla as a zip and extracted it to the partition
22:54 < jim> ok, do you remember what you installed it onto?
22:55 < gnulligan> yes
22:55 < jim> which partition?
22:55 < Todden> It is very difficult to clone from the drive its on btw
22:55 < gnulligan> 5
22:55 < Todden> Just FYI
22:55 < ryouma> i tried to check the logs.  if the goal is to clone your exact computing environment to a new spindle, or similar, is clonezilla the correct tool?
22:55 < Todden> Yes
22:55 < Todden> If you have identical hardware itll be the same PC
22:56 < ryouma> i have a script that does it that will not be of use to you because it is too specific to me, but i can say that it seems like a trivial problem but is extremely not trivial.  it's one tiny little obvious thing after another, plus one big non-obvious thing after another.  however, it is possible.  it's great if clonezilla does it for you.
22:56 < Todden> Good for businesses where you have the same type of PC all over,spend 3-4 hours setting up one PC and clone it
22:57 < jim> gnulligan, ok, which drive? sda? so, sda5?
22:57 < bls> it's also dead simple if you just boot live media to do it instead of risking corruption by cloning the disk you're booted off of
22:57 < gnulligan> jim: IDK if it's sda or not according to clonezilla, but the clonezilla gui shows all my partitions as being of the form "nvme0px"
22:58 < gnulligan> so I guess it would be nvme0p5
22:58 < jim> so, maybe the full name is /dev/nvme0p5
22:58 < Todden> Also downloading clonezilla,never know when its gonna come in handy
22:58 < jim> ?
22:59 < gnulligan> jim: yeah that's the full name for the clonezilla partition
22:59 < jim> maybe clonezilla could be used to back up your system
22:59 < Todden> jim, Booting from that Lubuntu USB3 stick now,the new fancy dev ve
22:59 < Todden> Thanks for that
23:00 < gnulligan> hmm
23:00 < jim> gnulligan, you could try that as the "bootfrom" value?
23:00 < gnulligan> ok I'll try that
23:00 < gnulligan> wait a minute brb
23:01 < jim> gnulligan, so, the web page was giving a typical example
23:04 < Todden> Now lubuntu is installing and will hopefully not error out(not really begun yet,copying files)...clonezilla is nearly done incase i ever need it
23:04 < Todden> Time to go play fortnite stw(the one not full of kids)
23:05 < Todden> jim, This new installer looks so cool
23:05 < Todden> And the desktop environment
23:05 < Todden> And its blazing fast even on this old laptop,so worth it
23:06 < jim> Todden, you got it going :)
23:06 < Todden> yarp,dont get too excited
23:06 < Todden> its on live mode
23:06 < Todden> i ran into the errors during install
23:06 < Todden> ill let you know when im past em
23:07 < jim> well how big was the usb stick you used?
23:07 < Todden> 32gb
23:07 < Todden> I cant find the encrypt paritions and LVM options..hmm
23:07 < Todden> I think it might be under manual
23:07 < jim> should be plenty./.
23:07 < jim> yeah,
23:08 < jim> first you need "physical volumes for luks" (if you're encrypting) and "for lvm" if not
23:08 < Todden> yep you gotta go to manual partitoning
23:09 < Todden> Hmm..this is gonna be tricky
23:09 < Todden> I need to do LVM by myself
23:10 < Todden> I forgot what things need their own partitions..and how much space
23:10 < Todden> Many flags
23:10 < Todden> Im actually confused by this...oh dear
23:10 < jim> Todden, ok, how much disk space total do you want to have for your entire system?
23:11 < Todden> 73.8GB is how much space is on the drive,but i need a seperate boot and swap space i know that
23:11 < Todden> If i download say..teamviewer
23:11 < Todden> Could you quickly set up volumes
23:12 < Todden> its ok if not
23:12 < jim> Todden, I don't have a teamviewer set up
23:12 < gnulligan> hey jim back
23:12 < Todden> Any remote support setup you do?
23:13 < jim> I haven't done a remote in years
23:13 < Todden> Could always live stream from the webcam rofl
23:13 < Todden> haha
23:13 < jim> gnulligan, so, the web page was giving a typical example
23:13 < gnulligan> it says "(initramfs) Unable to find a medium containing a live file system"
23:14 < jim> weird.
23:14 < Todden> Ok ive got 73.8GB to play with and a BUNCH of flags i could use,im going for ext4 obviously
23:14 < jim> gimme a few mins
23:14 < Todden> And as for mount points..im thinking a partition for boot under /boot and SWAP with no mount the rest can go in 1 big ext4 partition
23:15 < bls> don't need a partition for swap
23:15 < Todden> Why not?
23:15 < bls> you can either use a volume or a swap file
23:15 < jim> Todden, ok, what kind of partition table you got on the drive? (default is mbr/legacy, 4 primary partitions... you might be able to put a gpt on the drive, 128 primary parttions)
23:15 < Todden> But theres nothing..wrong with a partition
23:15 < bls> either would be way more flexible than a partition
23:15 < Todden> Formatted as linuxswap?
23:15 < gnulligan> that's after I tried adding "live-media-path=/live-hd bootfrom=/dev/nvme0n1p5 toram=filesystem.squashfs"
23:15 < Todden> MBR
23:16 < Todden> I can change it to GPT
23:16 < jim> ok... now many partitions are already on the drive?
23:16 < Todden> 73.8GB of unallocated space,731MB ext4(i assume the install stuff)
23:17 < Todden> MBR or GPT
23:17 < superboot> Hi all. I'm running systemd. Is /etc/network/interfaces depricated in favor of /etc/systemd/network/ifacename.net?
23:17 < jim> either is probably fine... but: do you want to use the whole drive exclusively for that installation of linux/
23:17 < jim> ?
23:17 < Todden> Sorry ive never done LVM manually before and every prior lubuntu installer did it automatically with encryption
23:17 < Todden> Yes
23:17 < Todden> I do
23:18 < jim> ok
23:18 < Todden> But i want something like LVM,like a sensible boot,swap space etc
23:18 < Todden> mounts are / boot home opt srv usr var
23:18 < jim> do you want to encrypt?
23:18 < Todden> Yes
23:18 < Todden> And theres loads of flags
23:18 < Todden> I could type em all out
23:18 < bls> superboot: depends on your distro
23:19 < jim> I never did an encrypted system
23:19 < Todden> Ill type out flags
23:19 < jim> so I'm likely to screw it up
23:19 < Todden> wont take me 2m
23:19 < jim> ok
23:19 < jim> but I use lvm all the time
23:20 < Todden> apple-tv-recovery,bios-grub,boot,diag,esp,hidden,hpservice,irst,lba,legacy-boot,lvm,msft-data,msft-reserved,palo,prep,raid,root,swap
23:20 < mooniac> I have a micro SD card that is totally corrupted. I also have a USB 2.0 adapter for that. Is there any way to delete, purge, wipe, "reset", whatever the micro SD chip card?
23:20 < Todden> Primary or extended,partition types: ext2,3,4 linuxswap fat16 fat32 ntfs unforatted or btrfs(?!)
23:21 < jim> I'm not sure what that partition (700mb or so) is doing on the partition, sounds like approx the size of a cd
23:21 < superboot> bls: Linux Mint 18.3
23:21 < Todden> It is
23:21 < Todden> Its the install files
23:21 < Todden> I believe
23:21 < Todden> gotta go somewhere
23:21 < Todden> Sorry no
23:22 < Todden> . /dev/sda is the 73.8GiB of free space
23:22 < jim> ok, so you're out for now?
23:22 < Todden> And /dev/sda1 is the 731mb
23:22 < jim> or?
23:22 < Todden> No
23:22 < jim> ok
23:22 < Todden> I mean install files
23:22 < Todden> they gotta go someewhere right?
23:23 < kerframil> mooniac: as in an equivalent to ATA secure erase? no. you could try passing over it with shred -v -n1 and hope for the best. or destroy it.
23:23 < jim> you're booted into the installer now, right?
23:23 < Todden> But yeah the 731mb part is /dev/sda1 and the 73gb unallocated is /dev/sda
23:23 < Todden> Im booted into the live interface,i tried the instaler
23:23 < Todden> But ended up in the live interface,ive launched the installer
23:23 < mooniac> doesn't have to be safe. Can totally wipe.
23:23 < Todden> I dont mind fucking up,this PC is a..tabula rasa
23:23 < jim> ok please watch language
23:24 < Todden> apologies,ill confine the swearing to latin too
23:24 < z3t0> hi all
23:24 < jim> hi
23:24 < Todden> yo
23:24 < z3t0> I am using a window manager that has a font setting like this
23:24 < z3t0>  "-xos4-terminus-medium-r-normal--14-140-72-72-c-80-iso8859-15"
23:24 < Todden> jim, Obviously if someone else needs help while youre helping me we can both try help em
23:24 < Todden> I dojnt expect your full attention
23:24 < z3t0> What format would that be? I am trying to set the font myself based off of that example
23:24 < Todden> First though you think MBR or GPT
23:25 < Todden> Gonna go MBR unless anyone wants to argue for GPT
23:25 < spare> mbr is legacy gpt supports 2tb+ partition sizes and uefi
23:25 < kerframil> z3t0: that's a (legacy) X Logical Font Description for the Terminus font, in its pure bitmapped form
23:25 < bls> z3t0: it's an old X bitmap font spec, install/use xfontsel to generate your own
23:25 < jim> can you put that 700mb onto another drive temporarily/
23:25 < jim> ?
23:25 < Todden> err
23:26 < Todden> I dont know how
23:26 < Todden> I dont think it is possible its the install files
23:26 < Todden> The liveCD files
23:26 < Todden> I can reboot straight into the installer
23:26 < Todden> hopefully that wont create anything on disk
23:26 < kerframil> z3t0: chances are, your distro packages this font. if you want to specify a different font description, use xfontsel as bls mentioned.
23:27 < jim> you're in a partitioner now?
23:28 < Todden> Yeah
23:28 < Todden> I did just err
23:28 < Todden> delete this 700mb partiton
23:28 < Todden> Nothing awful happened
23:28 < jim> ok
23:28 < Todden> Changes havent been applied though yet
23:28 < Todden> I dont think
23:28 < jim> you still have the usb stick you booted the live from?
23:29 < Todden> Yeah its plugged in
23:29 < Todden> I assume you have to leave it in
23:29 < Todden> Now i have 74.5GiB of free space
23:30 < jim> ok, I'd say it's safe to blow that partition away... at this point, you now have 4 partitions
23:30 < Todden> Ive got zero
23:30 < Todden> Theres nothing
23:30 < jim> ok, try booting the installer
23:30 < Todden> Im in the installer
23:30 < Todden> halfway through it
23:30 < Todden> At the partitioning section
23:30 < jim> oh ok, and you're in the partitioner...
23:30 < Todden> Yep
23:30 < Todden> 74.5GiB of free space,set to GPT
23:31 < Todden> Primary or extended,partition types: ext2,3,4 linuxswap fat16 fat32 ntfs unforatted or btrfs(?!)
23:31 < Todden> apple-tv-recovery,bios-grub,boot,diag,esp,hidden,hpservice,irst,lba,legacy-boot,lvm,msft-data,msft-reserved,palo,prep,raid,root,swap
23:31 < Todden> mounts are / boot home opt srv usr var
23:31 < jim> make a 3g ext4 and have it mount on /boot
23:31 < Todden> boot flag?
23:32 < jim> umm, yeah
23:32 < Todden> got it
23:32 < Todden> Normally now i'd do like 5gb formatted as linuxswap
23:33 < Todden> But apparently not
23:33 < jim> ok, now you can put all the rest of the space on the luks... but, is it just your home dir you want to encrypt?
23:33 < kerframil> note: if you're intending to use dm-crypt, then leaving swap unencrypted is a major opsec fail
23:33 < Todden> Mhmm
23:33 < Todden> I want to encrypt the entire drive
23:34 < Todden> Total
23:34 < Todden> Like all my other PC's
23:34 < Todden> And kerframil yeah i know
23:34 < Todden> I actually cant find the option to encrypt anywhere i might have to do it post-install
23:34 < Todden> Ill look after setting up everything else
23:34 < Todden> And when you say LUKS
23:34 < Todden> What do you mean
23:34 < jim> ok, we can split it into two partitions
23:34 < Todden> K
23:35 < jim> encrypted lvm
23:35 < Todden> 73314 MiB
23:35 < Todden> So 2 partitions of ext4
23:35 < Todden> With LVM flag
23:35 < jim> no
23:35 < Todden> What size,mount point and other flags
23:35 < jim> we're not at that point yet
23:36 < Todden> k
23:36 < kerframil> jim: I can't counsel him as to graphical distro installers, but having one extra partition (beyond the boot partition) that is used by dm-crypt, the resulting volume of which is designated as an LVM PV is what I would suggest
23:36 < kerframil> jim: I'm telling you as I need to step out
23:36 < jim> you want to encrypt the drive... what we might do however, is have the partition that contains the kernels to boot, be unencrypted
23:37 < jim> that will be much less hassle when you boot
23:37 < jim> want to do that?
23:37 < Todden> Yeah thats fine
23:37 < Todden> I normally do that
23:37 < Todden> Leave the boot unencrypted
23:37 < Todden> I mean what can they do with the bootloader
23:38 < Todden> This way it asks for a password like..on boot right?
23:38 < Dagmar> Rather a number of things, actually, but there's no good solution to any of them without hardware support for full-disk encryption
23:38 < Todden> Normally says something lke "enter password to mount /sda/dev5:"
23:38 < Todden> Black screen
23:39 < jim> ok, now, you can either have the whole rest of the drive be "used as" a "physical volume for luks", or two partitions, both luks PVs
23:39 < Dagmar> Meanwhile, the malicious modification is quietly connecting to the nearest AP to email whatever password you entered to the DHS
23:39 < Todden> Why two partitions out of curiosity
23:39 < jim> maybe easier to deal with if they're smaller
23:39 < jim> but, that's up to you
23:40 < kerframil> oh, one other thing: if you're UEFI booting, don't forget that you need an ESP (that can be the /boot partition if formatted as *fat32* not ext4). if BIOS booting, grub also needs a dedicated partition where using GPT - it's called a BIOS boot partition.
23:40 < Dagmar> Wait they don't have an option to skip filling the disk with entropy?
23:40 < Todden> Im on GPT
23:40 < jim> that's right, forgot about that
23:40 < Todden> I havent seen that option yet Dagmar
23:40 < Todden> If i see it ill enable it
23:40 < jim> you booting efi?
23:40 < Todden> If not then i dont care
23:40 < Todden> Errr
23:40 < Todden> It is a Dell Inspirion 1520
23:41 < Todden> Incidentally my total available space/2 is 38gb
23:41 < Dagmar> Well, that's the step that's typically abominably slow.
23:41 < jim> is that an efi booting machine?
23:41 < Dagmar> It probably is
23:41 < jim> ok, so let's give it an esp
23:41 < Dagmar> Dangit mine's upstairs but most of the recent Dells do UEFI as an option
23:41 < Todden> https://www.dell.com/community/Storage-Drives-Media/Dell-Inspiron-1520-OS-Installation/td-p/3772257 This implies it does
23:41 < Todden> As it says BIOS/UEFI
23:41 < dasfamiliar> hello everyone
23:41 < jim> make it what, halfgig?
23:41 < jim> hi
23:41 < Dagmar> 100mb is generally plenty for the EFI
23:42 < Todden> So atm i got a 3gb ext4 /boot with the boot flag partition
23:42 < Todden> And tis all
23:42 < Dagmar> I think MS talks about that being "the minimum" but it's not in the spec
23:42 < jim> ok, add a fat32 partition, 200mb
23:42 < Dagmar> 100Mb is puh-lenty unless you've got oodles of images to boot and probably a UEFI shell environment installed
23:43 < Todden> flags and mount?
23:43 < Todden> Ill make a pretty boot environment
23:43 < Todden> With nice boot images
23:43 < jim> in case he wants to put an extra one later
23:43 < Todden> ^
23:43 < Dagmar> I don't mean pictures.  I mean multibooting 20-30 different distributions
23:43 < Todden> Dat too
23:43 < Todden> I might put kali on it lateer
23:43 < Dagmar> I was also being somewhat sarcastic.
23:43 < Dagmar> THis is bootstrap territory.  It doesn't take up lots of space
23:44 < jim> yeah
23:44 < Todden> So i got 200MB fat32,no mount point and no flags
23:44 < Dagmar> Ideally the bigger deal is making sure it ends on a cylinder boundary
23:44 < Todden> Ah
23:44 < Dagmar> ...because the first other partition is definitely going to start on a cylinder boundary
23:44 < jim> sec
23:44 < Todden> Ill have to do some moving round
23:44 < Todden> Ill put it at the start of the drive
23:45 < Todden> Done
23:45 < Todden> FAT32 300MB at drive start no flags no mount,Ext4 /boot boot flag 3GB,71.3GB unall
23:46 < Dagmar> z3t0: If you haven't already been told, that's an X11R6 "font spec".  It's an _ancient_ way of specifying a font
23:46 < Dagmar> Having scrolled up a bit, did lubuntu make serious changes to the installer?
23:46 < Todden> Yes
23:46 < Todden> Totally
23:46 < Todden> Ill show you in a sec igot images
23:47 < Dagmar> Mint & Ubuntu both give hte option to just do whole-disk encryption out of the box, and they default to doing it with LVM
23:47 < Dagmar> A shame if Lubuntu didn't keep that part
23:47 < Todden> They didnt
23:47 < Dagmar> Ouch
23:47 < Todden> Its replace partition with lubuntu
23:47 < Todden> Erase disk
23:47 < bls> apparently that option was dropped from some of ubuntu's recent installers according to complaints here
23:47 < Todden> Or manual
23:47 < Dagmar> bls: Geez.  They were ahead of Debian with that bit
23:48 < Dagmar> Like, Debian will do it, but the way it mounts them later is weird and unpretty
23:48 < jim> Todden, the mount point for the fat32 partition should be /boot/efi
23:48 < bls> that or its been made part of some alternative workflow that no one here has bother to figure out yet
23:48 < Todden> Ahhh ok i was wondering,its not an option in "the list" but i can make it one
23:48 < jim> and we need toi set its type
23:48 < Todden> LVM flag?
23:48 < Dagmar> Todden: Note that that mount point could be anywhere, but if you don't have it _there_ the distributions tools won't know about the new place and updating the kernels will fail
23:49 < Todden> You lost me
23:49 < jim> what's the type for gpt... 0xEFEF? 0xEF00?
23:49 < Pentode> bah. my network connection in 17.04 just mysteriously refuses to work for some unknown reasons until the machine is either rebooted or reconnected some random number of times. other times, it just works. :|
23:49 < Dagmar> The mount point for the ESP being /boot/efi
23:49 < Todden> Yeah,it has to be
23:49 < Todden> goot it
23:49 < Todden> 300mb fat32 partition in /boot/efi no flags
23:50 < Todden> http://imgur.com/a/Q3gPoor
23:51 < Todden> This is a few pics
23:51 < Todden> might be a cheeky nude
23:51 < Todden> might be the installler
23:51 < Todden> who knows
23:51 < superboot> Todden: Manual isn't that bad on the LVM side. Boot into live cd. sudo pvcreate /dev/sdX; sudo vgcreate linuxVG /dev/sdX; lvcreate -L 30G -n root linuxVG; lvcreate -L 80G -n home linuxVG; lvcreate -L 16G swap linuxVG;
23:51 < jim> Dagmar, what's the partition type field for the esp? EFEF? EF00?
23:52 < seven-eleven> is it a bad idea to use automatically generated memorizable phrases, words are grabbed randomly from /usr/share/dict/american-english , as password in configuration files? i worry that the result may contain passwords with offensive words. so maybe i should use random characters as passwords for automatically generated passwords in config files :|
23:52 < Todden> superboot, you have beyond lost me,im in the partioner of the installer atm getting helped by jim
23:52 < Todden> For passwords i would use random dictionary words,like 6 in a row
23:52 < Pentode> seven-eleven, using words in general is not a good idea.
23:52 < Todden> Not correct horse battery staple
23:52 < bls> seven-eleven: probably shouldn't saving passwords in files to begin with
23:53 < Pentode> if you really need a password to be easy to remember use made up words or something.
23:53 < bls> and a string completely random characters would be better than the same length string of real words
23:53 < Todden> Incase this fails
23:53 < jim> Todden, we're still setting up the ESP
23:53 < Todden> Im downloading gparted Live to do this all manually
23:53 < Todden> Yes
23:54 < jim> I just need the type code
23:54 < Todden> err
23:54 < Todden> how do
23:54 < spare> ef00
23:54 < jim> well for mbr partition table, the type code is a byte and has to be ef
23:55 < Todden> Im on GPT
23:55 < spare> ef00 is uefi and ef02 is bios partition
23:55 < seven-eleven> bls, i agree, but the software im using didn't implement a way to store passwords in an obscure way
23:55 < Todden> I did say i may as well go to GPT
23:56 < jim> Todden. on gpt, the type code for partitions is two bytes, and for the ESP we'll set it to EF00
23:56 < Todden> I dont know how to do that
23:56 < jim> that finishes the setup for the ESP
23:56 < jim> sec
23:57 < Todden> np im gonna set some fires
23:57 < Todden> Incense,a nice oil burning thing,a few candles,heroin on foil,some lava lamps etc
23:58 < Todden> yknow the standard stuff
23:58  * norkle sips whiskey,
23:58 < McDonaldsWiFi> you guys know what this error means? "udev : Breaks: systemd (< 233-4)"
23:58 < McDonaldsWiFi> I tried searching without luck :(
23:58 < Todden> one of them is untrue
23:58 < Todden> Whoever guesses right wins something when i set this partition up
23:59 < Todden> guess at end
23:59 < seven-eleven> bls, Pentode I think security is not the deciding issue regarding  "words vs characters passwords", because a 5 random words passwords sourcing from 100,000 words dictionary provides a probability of 1/10^25. i think offensive words in configuration files is the disadvantage, and considering that I dont need to retype the password, because its stored just once in the config file i should hands down go for character passwords
--- Log closed Sat Jun 23 00:00:09 2018