--- Log opened Sun Jul 01 00:00:20 2018
00:20 < Loshki> So exactly how many regexp variants are there? vi, perl, python, ...?
00:20 < rany> Loshki: php, python, goland and javascript
00:20 < rany> golang *
00:21 < Sitri> Vi and python both use PCRE AIUI, as does PHP.
00:23 < Sitri> There's Perl, PCRE, oniguruma, whatever MS uses in JScript and its replacement, the one plan9 uses
00:23 < rany> Sitri: does tcl have its own?
00:23 < pnbeast> rany, did you forget sed?
00:24 < Sitri> I don't use TCL, but it likely uses PCRE like most everything else.
00:24 < jim> I think tcl does have an impleentation
00:25 < Loshki> grep
00:27 < jim> one thing you have to understand about regular expressions, the language used to describe them can be radically different than what's moreorless been settled on by (say) the program grep... it's not that specific language that makes the expressions regular, it's attributes of the grammar
00:27 < pnbeast> Sitri, did you forget awk?
00:30 < pnbeast> jim, why do you have to understand that?  I used dozens, maybe hundreds, of junky little regexes for years before I took a formal class that discussed regular languages.
00:30 < jim> one attribute prefents the language from recognizing parenthetical things, like ( ... ), [ ... ] or even <foo> ... </foo>
00:32 < jim> pnbeast, it's just that grep-like regexps aren't the only kind of regexps possible
00:32 < pnbeast> I can write a regex in ten seconds that recognizes parenthetical things.  I think you're trying to say that arbitrarily nested things can't be captured in a regex.
00:33 < jim> right
00:33 < pnbeast> E.g., people writing regexes to handle HTML may be surprised at their inability to "do it right".   Because you can't...
00:34 < kingsley> When should I expect Talos II/Raptor/IBM/AMD kernel video patches submitted to Linus to appear in Debian's unstable kernels?
00:34 < jim> right, and as you know, there are tools that do that are -not- regular
00:34 < Sitri> pnbeast: I misunderstood the question and was listing refex implimentations
00:34 < Sitri> IE: the libraries that impliment regex
00:35 < pnbeast> Sitri, my point, antagonistically expressed, was that you're not ever going to write a complete list of regex implementations.  They're in tons of things.
00:36 < Sitri> pnbeast: but a few things use the same one.
00:37 < pnbeast> Yes, in some cases (e.g. pcre's case, due to its ease of inclusion), programs share similar/identical flavors.
00:37 < jim> kingsley, have those patches appeared in any existing kernels (or available kernel sources)?
00:38 < kingsley> jim: You ask a reasonable question. Short answer: I dunno. (I just read about them on #talos-workstattion.)
00:38 < Sitri> pnbeast: which is why I stopped listing them after the initial list, so I have no idea WTF your beef is
00:39 < pnbeast> I found it absurd that people were trying to list regex implementations.
00:39 < Sitri> I was the only one doing that.  Everyone else was listing variants.
00:42 < jim> kingsley, let me see, maybe ##hardware has info on that (but is a bit of a stretch), more likely you could find info on the #kernel-newbies channel on irc.oftc.net
00:43 < jim> also maybe there's info avaulable on the LKML
01:16 < `7hr34t_hvntr> anyone know about SQL, if you do something like `WHERE foo.name=? ORDER BY bar LIMIT ?` what's the question mark doing
01:19 < kilo> sorry I can't help with SQL
01:20 < infinisil> `7hr34t_hvntr: This has nothing to do with linux, go to a more appropriate channel
01:21 < `7hr34t_hvntr> infinisil, watch your language and attitude.
01:22 < pnbeast> `7hr34t_hvntr, it's really cool how you spelled your nick with numbers instead of vowels, and even a cool backtick.  Are you l33t?
01:22 < `7hr34t_hvntr> who wants to know?
01:23 < Comstock> remember that episode of numbers where they said all people on irc speak like that?
01:23 < pnbeast> Hmm, no one, really.
01:23 < `7hr34t_hvntr> seems like a no one to me.
01:23 < Comstock> if you have a SQL question, try #SQL
01:24  * pnbeast sees Elmer Fudd warning everyone to be vewy, vewy quiet, he's wabbit huntin'!
01:26 < `7hr34t_hvntr> ^when unclever witty people think they're witty and clever
01:27 < Exagone313> about topical questions, as ##linux is not only used for kernel questions, do you know if there is a channel to ask such questions that do not apply to the kernel at all (where people not liking Linux would be for example, even if questions can be on topic on a system using Linux)?
01:27 < `7hr34t_hvntr> Comstock, missed that one in the alis output
01:27 < Exagone313> (like a "more general" channel more any unix-like OS
01:28 < Exagone313> *(like a "more general" channel for any unix-like OS)
01:31 < badet0s> what happend to #slackware ? U need invite now
01:31 < pnbeast> badet0s, it wasn't our turn to watch them!
01:32 < sauvin> What SQL question do you have?
01:33 < esselfe> Exagone #osdev, not sure
01:33 < `7hr34t_hvntr> i figured it out, the ?'s were just placeholders for prepared statements @sauvin
01:34 < sauvin> Yes.
01:34 < esselfe> Exagone313: ^
01:37 < NightStrike> I'm using an I/O card that can do DMA transfers. There's little documentation on it, but for the "DMA Control" option, I can pick "Constant Read" or "Increment". Does anyone have any idea what that means?
01:37 < esselfe> I've had hard times trying to discuss of a 3D system there ^^
01:38 < esselfe> that was in my times doing a 3D system monitor
01:52 < GlenK> I'm mostly a fedora guy, but man, if I have to run ubuntu in a VM, lubuntu is a thing of beauty.  boots up almost instantaneously
01:53 < pnbeast> So beauty.  Much instantly.
01:53 < Aph3x-WL> very canonical
01:53 < ntd> too bad most stuff will require packs and dependencies
01:53 < iflema> try a realbox
01:53 < ntd> and canon is not very good at keeping stuff updated
01:54 < iflema> an rbox
01:55 < iflema> galybox
01:55 < iflema> deezbox
01:55 < Aph3x-WL> iflembox
01:56 < iflema> working onit
01:57 < iflema> ive have 0 hardware fail in 15 years...
01:57 < iflema> give it a crack...
01:57 < pnbeast> iflema, send me 50 bucks for shipping and I can give you all the hardware fail you want.  You might even get some scrap metal value out of it.
01:57 < iflema> ext4 screwed once but eh
01:58 < iflema> pnbeast: i dont wanna mess around scrappin
01:58 < pnbeast> I don't blame you.
01:59 < iflema> unless you got a pot to throw it all in and then scrap layers of cash
01:59 < iflema> healthy to boot...
02:00 < pnbeast> Sorry.  We just submit a form and then a guy from another dept. brings a truck and it goes away.  I have no idea what it's worth, actually.  Might be negative value, too - I hear China's not taking all the world's trash, any more.
02:00  * iflema that sounds like a really good deal
02:01 < grimping> 123 test
02:01 < pnbeast> grimping, if you wanted to test, why didn't you just type your real question/comment?
02:01 < iflema> gary...
02:02 < grimping> I have 2 Internet articles to discuss
02:02 < pnbeast> grimping, this is a channel to discuss Linux.
02:03 < ayecee> sorry, only one article permitted
02:03 < derooz> Linux Mint Cinnamon >> Talking of keyboard shortcuts, would someone know the command to "Switch User"? I like the keyboard shortcut to lock, but even better would be "Switch User" because it's a shared machine.
02:03 < pnbeast> derooz, "su"?  What?
02:04 < pnbeast> Log out and log back in, if you're immersed to your eyeballs in GUI land.
02:04 < derooz> Yes this is a GUI question. But I don't understand you advice. :P
02:04 < pnbeast> derooz, I don't understand your question.
02:04 < grimping> https://www.infoworld.com/article/2612738/networking/your-next-network-operating-system-is-linux.html
02:05 < iflema> wheres mint# espernet?
02:05 < grimping> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/08/15/the-next-generation-internet-technology-that-could-supercharge-your-home-a-cold-calculating-look-at-the-reality-of-wireless-fiber/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.39be26bec98b
02:05 < grimping> Ok.
02:05 < pnbeast> grimping, my next one?  I've been using Linux since around 2000.
02:06 < grimping> I mean when networking meets Linux, nowadays.
02:06 < ayecee> wat
02:06 < pnbeast> networking met Linux when Linux was first developed.
02:06 < derooz> pnbeast: I'd like to setup a custom keyboard shortcut to do what the Switch User button does. To set up custom keyboard shortcuts in Linux Mint, you need to specify command you want to execute. But maybe that doesn't clarify my question.
02:07 < pnbeast> derooz, and what does the "switch user" button do?
02:07 < grimping> The article in Washington Post is about future AFAIS.
02:07 < ayecee> it's difficult to describe. it "switches" the "user".
02:07 < iflema> derooz: try mint irc if you havnt allready.... its on another network
02:07 < Pentode> will there be a "enter password macro" too?
02:07 < grimping> And Linux doesn't met the future yet.
02:08 < pnbeast> derooz, Linux, as with any *nix I've ever seen, has the "su" command to switch user.  But I suspect you're wondering how one luser can use a computer if some other luser is already logged into it.
02:08 < derooz> Locks the machine, and displays the screen that lists the users where you can select one to log into.
02:08 < pnbeast> grimping, the future is off topic, here.
02:08 < ayecee> pnbeast: or rather, one can switch from the current user session to another user session, and start that session if it doesn't exist.
02:08 < ayecee> gui session ofc
02:09 < grimping> That's my topic consisting of 2 articles.
02:09 < pnbeast> derooz, that will depend on your WM, as far as I know.  And that's all I know.  Maybe someone else can help you.
02:10 < ayecee> grimping: having presented the articles, is there something you would like to say about them, or a question you had about them
02:10 < iflema> gary
02:10 < pnbeast> grimping, thank you for your topic.  Your submission will be considered in the order in which it was received.  Please wait two to four weeks for confirmation of receipt.  Payment(s), if any, will be issued by certified bank check only after your submission is finalized.
02:11 < esselfe> grimping: I was about to say join #networking but there's no one there, what about #safenetwork?
02:11 < ayecee> try ##networking
02:12 < derooz> grimping: or just a random ##chat. or even ##electronics, it's very offtopic
02:12 < grimping> Sorry if it's considered offtopic, but that's it.
02:12 < derooz> ## is so reduntant, like what prevents us from using #linux??? lol
02:13 < derooz> "us" should be "ops" "CEOs" or whoever is in charge
02:13 < pnbeast> freenode was very worried that we would all think freenode spoke for the world if they only had one # symbol.
02:13 < nik> ### is not enough
02:14 < esselfe> ## comes first in the listings
02:14 < ayecee> derooz: i guess you've never actually tried to find out.
02:14 < ayecee> derooz: https://www.reddit.com/r/irc/comments/4784dj/dumb_question_whats_the_point_of_double_ing_a/
02:14 < ayecee> (while there's more official pages about the topic, this seemed suitable.)
02:14 < derooz> ayecee: aye, you guessed right
02:17 < grimping> Sorry if it's not professional approach, I'm just a home Linux user.
02:17  * sauvin loved Spock's particularly dry and subtly sarcastic response: "I shall certainly give it all the consideration it is due."
02:17 < ayecee> a professional approach to what
02:17 < ayecee> it's not clear what you're trying to approach
02:17 < grimping> It's not network administration for example.
02:18 < ayecee> what isn't network administration
02:18 < derooz> grimping: these are not professionals, they're just geeky snobs. But I don't mean offense by that. :D
02:18 < ayecee> should probably use different words then
02:18 < grimping> ayecee: The articles opened in my browser.
02:19 < ayecee> grimping: what about them
02:20 < grimping> I mean Linux architecturally can stand any network infrastructure perhaps.
02:21 < ayecee> so what are you trying to say
02:21 < pnbeast> grimping, welcome to ##linux on freenode.  There are three or four kinds of discussion.  Primarily, someone asks a question, then others answer or yell at the person.  Second is that someone claims something is great or terrible, then others yell at the person.  Third is that someone asks why they can't talk in another channel.  Fourth is spammers.
02:21 < ayecee> this guy ircs
02:21 < pnbeast> grimping, you don't fit these categories.  What do you want?  To talk about Linux and networking?  Then you have to make an actual statement so we can yell at you.
02:22  * sauvin looks for his bullhorn
02:23 < grimping> Ok, will the developments in Linux world meet the today's networking researches in US?
02:23 < sauvin> Huh?
02:23 < ayecee> what does it mean to meet the today's networking researches in the US
02:23 < iflema> USA USA
02:23 < sauvin> Dude, Linux and the BSDs *are* "today's networking researches".
02:24 < esselfe> grimping: the Linux always evolve
02:24 < esselfe> *Linux world
02:24 < pnbeast> grimping, partially.  Lots of research in computing is done with Linux, so some of those researchers modify it in various ways, and some of that goes into the mainstream kernel.
02:24 < sauvin> And other operating systems, such as Windows, will reap the benefits of those researches at some point within the next decade or so.
02:24 < grimping> Because I see 40 discs with distros frozen in time, but providers and companies are moving forward.
02:25 < sauvin> Discs?
02:25 < pnbeast> Only 40?
02:25 < ayecee> which 40 discs do you see
02:25 < ayecee> have you looked for other discs
02:25 < pnbeast> I think there are 40 ubuntu disks, alone!
02:25 < iflema> USB?
02:26 < pnbeast> iflema, don't you go evolving Linux into smaller storage.  We're still on networking.
02:26 < iflema> im not
02:26 < pnbeast> grimping, sorry, Linux just evolved.
02:26  * iflema raising the bar
02:28 < jim> grimping, one thing... nothing meets the future until it becomes the present :)
02:28 < sauvin> Most people don't "raise" the bar, they just walk in, plop down, and start sauced.
02:28 < sauvin> *start getting sauced
02:28 < Pentode> mm sauce
02:28 < jim> and a few let the bar fall on them
02:28 < iflema> open sauce?
02:28 < jim> (ouch)
02:29 < sauvin> I don't have a drinking problem. I drink, I fall down, I can't get up, so I take a nap. No problem.
02:29 < iflema> is that free?
02:29 < Pentode> free as in freedom not free as in free sauce
02:30 < sauvin> The recipes for the drinks are usually open source.
02:30 < iflema> sausum
02:30 < pnbeast> Free as in beer batter or free as in saucy mouthed?
02:31 < jim> if you woulda sausum, you had the choice to getsum
02:32 < sauvin> What do you call a recipe for a mixed drink? Sauce code!
02:33 < jim> booooooooooooo
02:33 < iflema> sudo sauce
02:34 < Elronnd\srn> do syscalls every get amended in a backwards-compatible way?  Like adding a new flag that you can optionally use that would have previously been an error?
02:34 < Elronnd\srn> *ever
02:34 < Ameisen> right now I'm using 'script' to generate build logs from builds so I can find errors
02:35 < Ameisen> that's tedious since lots of projects have a ton of files that have the word 'error' in them
02:35 < Ameisen> any good equivalent to script that will mark lines from stderr in some way?
02:35 < pnbeast> Ameisen, that's one way, but usually errors cause the build to die and you can just read the last few lines, no?
02:35 < Ameisen> heh
02:35 < jim> what do you call ordering a drink? saucecall
02:35 < Sitri> Elronnd\srn: man 2 open
02:35 < Ameisen> you'd hope.
02:35 < Sitri> Answer is yes
02:35 < Ameisen> Debian stuff likes going for a long time after the failure.
02:36 < Elronnd\srn> ;<
02:36 < Elronnd\srn> that complicates matters
02:36 < pnbeast> Ameisen, I see.  What about redirecting stderr by itself?  Is that possible?
02:37 < Ameisen> my toolchain for my 'distro' (not really a distro, more a full os akin to android as it's not gnu) doesn't have the problem
02:37 < Ameisen> but I'm using debian to build those things for bootstrapping
02:37 < Ameisen> and for testing
02:37 < Ameisen> possibly
02:37 < Ameisen> Ideally I'd keep them in the same file so I can cross-reference..
02:37 < Elronnd\srn> Ameisen: is script that ttyrec knockoff?
02:37 < Ameisen> Could just modify script to do it
02:37 < jim> pnbeast. as you might know, stderr can be redirected with 2>
02:37 < Ameisen> Probably.
02:38 < sacules> hey guys, anybody used polybar with dwm?
02:38 < pnbeast> jim, Ameisen is asking, not me.
02:38 < pnbeast> sacules, it works best if you ask your real question.
02:39 < jim> sacules, add informative details too
02:39 < sacules> when I open polybar, dwm draws the border like on any other window, is there any way to avoid it?
02:40 < sacules> without disabling borders overall
02:41 < jim> sacules, hmm. maybe polybar is graphically incompatible?
02:42 < jim> sacules, which wm/de have you successfully used with polybar?
02:43 < sacules> it renders properly, but like this https://imgur.com/0vNGczv
02:43 < sacules> haven't used polybar before lol
02:44 < sacules> well actually tried it on xfce but had a similar issue
02:45 < jim> is polybar the thing at the top?
02:47 < iflema> dont think so... but its been a while
02:48 < sacules> yeah
02:48 < sacules> the one covering the status bar
02:48 < jim> iflema, oh, you've used polybar before? what with?
02:48 < iflema> jim: no ive used dwm before
02:49 < iflema> i3 funna
02:49 < jim> that's probably a good point... sacules, have you tried i3 with it/
02:49 < iflema> with dwm i recall a recompile just to get a clock
02:49 < jim> ?
02:50 < iflema> not tath it takes long
02:50 < Alabaster> I just did a linux upgrade and it took forever and now its running reaaaally really slow. I don't even know where to begin
02:50 < sacules> i haven't, and I know it usually works well with it, just was trying to get it working with this one
02:51 < jim> Alabaster, could you run... free | nc termbin.com 9999
02:51 < iflema> swap?
02:51 < iflema> lack of?
02:51 < Alabaster> its live persistence
02:51 < iflema> oh jesus
02:52 < Alabaster> yeah I don't see anything in swap but I I never did usb live before
02:52 < iflema> is there a swapon
02:52 < MLarabel> Hey Everyone, what's a good linux Desktop Environment for a Big Screen 4K TV Setup?
02:52 < esselfe> MLarabel: fluxbox
02:53 < Alabaster> free show 14 gigs available
02:53 < MLarabel> esselfe: excellent
02:53 < jim> Alabaster, so, the slowdown isn't due to lack of ram
02:53 < Alabaster> nope of course
02:53 < jim> or to swaping
02:53 < Alabaster> nope of course
02:53 < iflema> !swapping
02:54 < Alabaster> no swapping?
02:54 < iflema> +t
02:54 < iflema> as you where
02:54 < Alabaster> type that together
02:54 < iflema> ...
02:54 < jim> not knot is not !!
02:54 < iflema> you have enough and t no swapping is not the iuue?
02:55 < Alabaster> yeah shouldn't need swapping when running off USB
02:55 < Alabaster> and plenty of space available
02:55 < iflema> ll
02:55 < pnbeast> mm
02:55 < Alabaster> I was asking what is !swapping?
02:56 < iflema> you have the RAM and the PROBLEM IS NOT NOT SWAPPING
02:56 < esselfe> Alabaster: could it be updatedb running? check with ps
02:56 < iflema> dont make me make this clear
02:56 < jim> Alabaster, maybe top will tell you something
02:57 < esselfe> Alabaster: swap is extra memory not supposed to be used
02:57 < Alabaster> I know swap and page
02:57 < iflema> and if oyr RAM is full and you hve NO swap you in shit
02:57 < esselfe> and when it kicks in things lags a bit
02:57 < jim> maybe it's running the 6:30 AM stuff
02:57 < Alabaster> hold a sec grepping I forgot know
02:58 < MLarabel> LINUX IS THE BEST I LOVE EVERYONE HERE!!
02:58 < jim> cool! shift key stuck!
02:58 < Alabaster> oh man I just aux and its taking forever
02:58 < pnbeast> MLarabel, if you really loved me, you'd sign over the title to your car.
02:59 < Psi-Jack> MLarabel: Say it, don't spray it.
02:59 < Alabaster> tasks 499 totoal 1 running
03:00 < jim> Psi-Jack, I got that
03:00 < Alabaster> cpu less .3
03:00 < Alabaster> I have no clue see
03:00 < Psi-Jack> Man. Solus just got another ++ from me. "eopkg history" what's the package change history?
03:01 < MLarabel> has anyone customized, using dracut, the initrd to boot off of a LVM2 loop-back PV file on a regular FAT32 USB stick?
03:01 < MLarabel> i just have a few quick questions
03:01 < Psi-Jack> Umm... https://imgur.com/gallery/Br00TCn
03:02 < Alabaster> any other ideas why it would run slow after just a normal apt-upgrade?
03:02 < MLarabel> Psi-Jack: hehe i love that movie, Harold & Kumar
03:03 < jim> Alabaster, you're running kali, right?
03:03 < Alabaster> well yeah but lets say debian varient here
03:03 < pnbeast> jim, it's not nice to pick on the people asking for help.
03:04 < Alabaster> that's not really well versed here
03:04 < Alabaster> he's not
03:04 < Loshki> Why does kali never seem to do their own support?
03:05 < Alabaster> kali or end users?
03:05 < pnbeast> Alabaster, he knows what I mean and you, probably, don't, so don't you worry your pretty, li'l head about it.
03:05 < jim> MLarabel, what dist?
03:05 < Alabaster> 2018.2
03:05 < Psi-Jack> MLarabel: heh yeah
03:05 < MLarabel> jim: fedora 28
03:06 < jim> ok, one thing, I don't think fedora autogenerates initrds, so you might be safe there
03:07 < MLarabel> right, so if i could inject some "pre" script into the initrd to do the losetup and what not, do you i think i could just set root=/dev/mapper/blah and it would work?
03:07 < Alabaster> but yes it is 4.15.0-2018.2
03:08 < Alabaster> oh that's another thing it's taking forever to boot as well
03:08 < jim> MLarabel, what does your initrd do? (did it have an initrd before?)
03:09 < Alabaster> really. This is my first time with this distro. Isn't an update supposed to well... nevermind that question I main Windows
03:10 < MLarabel> jim: i'm using the stock fedora 28 initrd right now, take a look at this: https://github.com/antonio-petricca/buddy-linux/blob/master/assets/initramfs/lvm-loops-setup
03:10 < Alabaster> should I apt clear cache and re-upgrade or I forget how that works
03:12 < Alabaster> hmmm Im assuming since the "K" word was used either the joke it's always slow or no one cares about this distro
03:12 < jim> Alabaster, I wonder if you would get a better result using plain debian, and building the "special" tools from source (which is easy if they have debianized sources for each of those tools). (and yes, this is pretty much a copout, because I have zero clue why your system is lagging)
03:13 < Alabaster> something in the upgrade or the fact I rebooted by accident halfway through and it picked up again although that shouldn't have caused a problem
03:14 < Alabaster> I main windows and second Ubuntu
03:14 < Alabaster> This Kali is just for another Certification
03:16 < Alabaster> I guess I will try to clear it and reupdate or try a different repo even though you shouldn't
03:17 < jim> Alabaster, your ubuntu is also a debian deriv, potentially you could try building the stuff there too (into packages that is)
03:17 < Alabaster> yeah I know its a Debian varient
03:18 < jim> I don't know that's possible, but if it is, it's worth a try
03:18 < Alabaster> oh I see what you mean. Nah. I don't want to have to piece-meal these tools together
03:20 < jim> what if you just tried reinstalling fresh from the newer kali version?
03:20 < jim> which cpu do you have?
03:22 < sauvin> Let's not say "debian variant". Kali is rather unique among distros in doing things that make it very ill-advised for use as a general purpose desktop.
03:23 < jim> sauvin, yep, and he's got his desktop already, he has ubuntu (and btw, win)
03:23 < sauvin> With most "debian variants", mixing repos is not safe. That lack of safety is even worse with Kali for a number of reasons, including its presumption of user privilege.
03:23 < esselfe> I found blackarch more impressive in term of tools offered
03:23 < pnbeast> It was on TV!  That's all that matters.
03:23 < cmj> isn't it just some livedistro for pen-testing?
03:24 < Alabaster> sorry I didn't look up to see the chat
03:24 < sauvin> Yes, and it's highly tuned for precisely that purpose and it assumes the user is an expert.
03:24 < jim> pnbeast, maybe, so was freenode
03:24 < Alabaster> it was working fine until an upgrade maybe something in that or things in that wasn't stable
03:24 < pnbeast> ZOMG, how can you hate TV show distros like this?  It probably has a "As Seen On TV!" sticker right on the package!!!
03:25 < pnbeast> Ron Popeil will show you all.
03:25 < cmj> it's a livedistro with tools already installed. do you need to be an expert for that?
03:25 < Alabaster> but I have an i7 2 year old laptop running fine well excluding all the problems with Windows 10 and I am pretty extremely well knowledged of windows even though 10 is getting increasingly horrible
03:26 < triceratux> you need to be an expert to refrain from running the installer
03:26 < Alabaster> esselfe for certs im just gonna try Parrot soon
03:26 < pnbeast> Ron Popeil has *all* the certs.
03:27 < jim> can I run kali as a vm guest pretty easily?
03:27 < Alabaster> sauvin I'm not sure it assumes the user to be an expert
03:27 < sauvin> Wouldn't see why not, but... why would anybody want to?
03:28 < sauvin> Alabaster, it does. It installs no users by default, as I recall - anybody using it is automatically root.
03:28 < jim> sauvin, to see what all the hubbub is about :)
03:28 < Alabaster> sauvin one (PEOPLE Like I) shouldn't meddle with a set of tools that they have yet to understand yet they need to dip into to develop that
03:28 < Alabaster> oh yes root
03:28 < esselfe> jim: compare with blackarch
03:28 < pnbeast> Ron got his CISSP by running blackarch in a VM on kali.  They awarded it to him the next day.  Both ran at full speed.
03:29 < Alabaster> that does cause a lot of concern if one didn't at least use some type of linux or Debian type on and off or have some previous experience
03:29 < Alabaster> I think thats next is run Kali on Windows in my VM
03:31 < Alabaster> CISSP man that starts at like 100k a year right???
03:31 < jim> Alabaster, well it must be something about the persistant part that is lagging your machine (an i7 lagging is hard to imagine)
03:31 < sacules> I feel polybar's icons are a little odd, the keyboard module has a trash bin icon lol
03:32 < esselfe> sacules: have you tried conky?
03:32 < sacules> and the filesystem one is constantly switching between a radioactivity one
03:32 < sacules> I have, but I'd prefer to have a bar, it's cleaner imo
03:32 < Alabaster> jim its probably because I accidently rebooted the laptop during the update or well.. Don't upgrade a live version
03:32 < esselfe> you can make it a bar too
03:33 < Alabaster> Only reason I upgraded is because the adaptor wasn't working so I tried update than upgrade
03:33 < Alabaster> I'm going to re-roll it than if I fail than VM it first
03:33 < jim> Alabaster, hmm, if you have the persistant part backed up, you might be able to run it again
03:34 < jim> is it necessary to upgrade kali for the cert?
03:34 < Alabaster> persistence is unioned
03:35 < Alabaster> so whatever it did to the 2nd partition it kinda places logical sectors on the 1st
03:35 < sacules> esselfe: nice, maybe that way I can integrate it into dwm-status
03:35 < jim> if not... maybe stick with the older version? or go to the newer with install... or go without persistance, and maybe just have a home dir
03:35 < Alabaster> jim no my wireless adaptor I bought isn't working
03:36 < jim> oh that's right
03:36 < Alabaster> the drivers I DLd and installed and put the adaptor in and nothing happened
03:36 < Alabaster> going from order of TShoot
03:36 < jim> do you have the usb id of the adapter?
03:37 < Alabaster> If i put it in the usb port yeah it shows up
03:37 < Alabaster> lemme check again
03:37 < jim> is the machine still lagging?
03:38 < Alabaster> hmmm for some reason it's not lagging with the internet turned off
03:38 < Alabaster> it took some time. Hold brb
03:38 < Alabaster> let me mess around and work it up a little.
03:38 < jim> oh interesting
03:39 < Alabaster> yeah network manager maybe issues
03:39 < Alabaster> going to focus on this and try to return to chat
03:39 < jim> wanna try it with /etc/network/interfaces?
03:40 < jim> (aka rule out NM as the problem)
03:40 < pnbeast> Alabaster, maybe you have the new ultra-live kali-too distro, which just queries the kali devs' git repos for the latest versions of the hacks you run, then recompiles them realtime and runs them.
03:41 < jim> so maybe it was compiling stuff, which might explain the lag
03:42 < pnbeast> They say that part is real-time.  I'm thinking bufferbloat is killing the d/l times.  Either that or they put their git repos back on spinning disks.
03:58 < jim> pnbeast, that makes me a little suspicious as to what kali is doing with the net traffic
03:59 < chey> hello peeps
03:59 < pnbeast> ZOMG, that's so obvious that, if it had been a snake, it would have bit^Wdestroyed me!  Destroyed!  Get it?
04:00 < jim> it shouldn't be doing much unless the user says to
04:00 < jim> hi
04:01 < chey> how are you jim
04:01 < jim> fine (but I have to adjust a melody)...
04:01 < chey> ha
04:03 < chey> bloody under voltage
04:04 < chey> gotta go a sec
04:04 < iflema> uston... we have had a problem...
04:05 < cmj> houston we have an uh oh
04:05 < cmj> (great song)
04:05 < iflema> sounds great
04:15 < Smithe> How can I setup a dummy user with only ssh access through cert?
04:15 < Smithe> I want this user to perform automated things
04:16 < ayecee> same way you create a normal user, except disable the password
04:16 < ayecee> i.e. passwd -l username (lock)
04:16 < Smithe> oh thx
04:16 < Enumeration> is it weird that dnsmasq turns me on?
04:17 < CyberManifest> lol
04:17 < ayecee> yes
04:17 < Smithe> Enumeration, bind9 >>>> dnsmasq
04:17 < ayecee> apples to oranges, man
04:18 < CyberManifest> where are the grapes?
04:18 < ayecee> djbdns
04:18 < Enumeration> so what should i do to get over my dnsmasq obsession?
04:18 < ayecee> a heavy regimen of antipsychotics
04:19 < Enumeration> are there any good online websites that do not requre a prescription?
04:19 < ayecee> under the supervision of a trained linux interventionist
04:19 < cmj> ask your doctor
04:19 < ayecee> if dnsmasq is right for you
04:19 < cmj> heh
04:20 < Enumeration> well i cannot access any canadian websites for cheap medication because of the dnsmasq filter
04:21 < ananke> what exactly do you think you'll accomplish? kernel/initrd are already compressed
04:22 < ananke> oops, complete scrollback fail
04:37 < forgotmynick> if i do cp -al x/ y/          what happens to y/test.txt if x/test.txt is modified?
04:38 < jim> forgotmynick, x/ and y/ exist?
04:39 < Sitri> forgotmynick: they're hard-links.  So they're the same file.
04:39 < forgotmynick> would y/test.txt become updated too?
04:39 < Sitri> Yes, it isn't a different file.  It's the same one.
04:40 < dannylee> hi
04:40 < jim> hi
04:40 < forgotmynick> Roger that
04:40 < triceratux> dannylee: mint 19 xfce might be g0d
04:41 < dannylee> really that c00000l
04:41 < dannylee> i think that fedora 27 is my G0D
04:41  * CyberManifest is agnostic
04:42 < jim> g0bz n g0bz n g0bz uv g0dz!
04:43 < dannylee> hal is a computer...AI could be G0D
04:43 < MLarabel> jim: he's dead (sadly a number of the beloved star trek characters have passed away)
04:43 < dannylee> spok
04:43 < pnbeast> Just the red shirts.
04:43 < jim> shatner?!
04:44 < MLarabel> no shatner is alive and well he works with russell peters now
04:44 < jim> who's that?
04:45 < dannylee> fedora 27 just wont let me install Gvim...but i have bluefish witch is a bit better\
04:45 < jim> MLarabel, I know bones and spock are gone
04:45 < dannylee> work station
04:45 < jim> DeForest Kelly
04:45 < dannylee> ya ok we all die some day
04:46 < Psi-Jack> Well, yeaaaah.. My NetworkManager patch got accepted upstream. :D
04:46 < pnbeast> You can't see DeForest for DeTrees.
04:46 < MLarabel> pnbeast: or DeGrasse Tyson
04:47 < dannylee> if you walk every day you wont die...no cigs or liquer
04:47 < Kaedenn> I want to reassign ssh to a different port. What port ranges should I pick from?
04:47 < Psi-Jack> Kaedenn: Why?
04:47 < Kaedenn> Server's being bombarded from China
04:47 < Psi-Jack> And?
04:47 < Kaedenn> And I don't want that
04:47 < jim> Kaedenn, you should probably also deny password auth
04:47 < Psi-Jack> It won't really stop....
04:48 < Kaedenn> My question is: what ports should I pick from for ssh?
04:48 < Psi-Jack> 22
04:48 < pnbeast> Kaedenn, I'd go with something from 1 to 65534.
04:49 < Psi-Jack> Kaedenn: Better to use something like OSSEC to monitor and react than just obfuscate which doesn't really do much for you.
04:49 < rasputozen> https://ptpb.pw/rmfj
04:49 < dannylee> i`m trying too stay heathy...no cig or liquer or drugs...i quit my cocaine habbit...i'm clean and mean fighting machine
04:50 < triceratux> dannylee: no problem with gvim on mint 19 xfce: "Package gvim is a virtual package provided by:   vim-gtk 2:8.0.1453-1ubuntu1   vim-athena 2:8.0.1453-1ubuntu1   vim-gtk3 2:8.0.1453-1ubuntu1"
04:50 < dannylee> i just really love the terminal in fedora..its great emulator
04:50 < jim> dannylee, probably should be looked at by a general physician and a cardiologist
04:50 < Kaedenn> We're doing a number of things differently now. First I want to move ssh to a different port, lock down password auth to use keys instead, and lock down a few other services
04:50 < dannylee> i'm happy
04:51 < Psi-Jack> Kaedenn: There's no point to changing the port. Seriously. LOL
04:51 < dannylee> linux is so ducking c00000L
04:51 < Psi-Jack> Changing configuration to use only keys, yes, that's actually something. Monitoring the activity and reacting automatically, that's also useful.
04:52 < dannylee> i'm widows free for over 10 years
04:52 < Kaedenn> I'll also look at iptables fun for limiting access to a handful of ranges
04:52 < Psi-Jack> Hmm, poor widows...
04:52 < dannylee> i'm windows free for over 10 years
04:52 < dannylee> to back that i cant spell
04:53 < Psi-Jack> Annnd... It's obvious someone's quite drunk tonight.. or something.
04:53 < CyberManifest> dannylee: http://dpaste.com/1BAR2DS#wrap
04:53 < dannylee> no food for 2 days...i'm fasting
04:54 < dannylee> i have too loose 20 more pounds
04:54 < dannylee> your smart not me
04:56 < jim> dannylee, careful, losing too fast is not healthy
04:57 < dannylee> zero cool...i crash 2000 computers is the last 20 years
05:25 < badpilot> Quick question: has anyone gotten dsniff to output to an easily readable filetype?
05:26 < badpilot> cause mine ends up in hex strings in some strange file
05:28 < pnbeast> badpilot, what does "file" say about your strange file?
05:28 < badpilot> hold please
05:29 < badpilot> actually I just did a reinstall and haven't gotten around to installing things but this has happened in the past
05:29 < badpilot> If you can't help that's fine
05:30 < pnbeast> I'm glad it's okay, 'cause I would have been really worried if you were depending on me for an answer.
05:30 < badpilot> don't worry sauce boss
05:30 < badpilot> all good
05:31 < badpilot> just was hoping someone with some knowledge of dsniff could help but it's fine
05:35 < pnbeast> I'll give you a hint, but no guarantees, badpilot.  If you know much about network monitoring and spend about 90 seconds on the FAQ, you'll have a solid guess.
05:35 < dongbag> I have two CPUs that want to talk to each other through shared memory (DRAM)
05:36 < dongbag> I'm trying to find out if one cpu writes 0xDEADBEEF to a memory that is set to 0x00000000... is there a chance the other CPU will see something like 0xDEAD0000
05:36 < dongbag> what's this called?
05:37 < dongbag> I need to check my DRAM controller to see if it allows concurrent reads and writes?
05:44 < pnbeast> flyingtoaster, do you think you could just stick with one nick while you're here?  It's a big channel.
05:44 < flyingtoaster> sure sorry
05:45 < flyingtoaster> should I change back?
05:46 < Elronnd\srn> no, just pick whatever and stick to it
05:47  * pnbeast smacks Elronnd with a dead trout.
06:05 < Sitri> Having some issues with my servers' NIC's not loading their firmware.  I've loaded an older copy of the firmware (from the live CD, which worked), but after a kernel update it doesn't anymore.
06:05 < Sitri> $ ifconfig eth3 up
06:05 < Sitri> SIOCSIFFLAGS: No such file or directory
06:05 < Sitri> Jun 30 21:00:13 nial kernel: bnx2 0000:02:00.1: Direct firmware load for bnx2/bnx2-mips-09-6.2.1b.fw failed with error -2
06:06  * Elronnd eats pnbeast's trout
06:10 < Elronnd> is there a good way I can see all the changes that were made to syscalls over time?  Grepping the git log for 'syscall' seems like a bad idea, and looking for all the diffs in functions declared as SYSCALL_DEFINE won't turn up a lot of the changes
06:10 < Elronnd> is there a table somewhere of all the syscalls and what they do that's not the kernel source tree itself?
06:11 < Sitri> Elronnd: man syscalls
06:11 < Sitri> Note the plural
06:11 < socomm> https://filippo.io/linux-syscall-table/
06:13 < jim> it seems to me the kernel source would be the ultimate source of info about their names and what they do, also it doesn't seem like much fun pouring over a million lines of code as the syscalls may not be documented in a simple list in the kernel source itself (seems they should be)
06:13 < Elronnd> well there's the syscall table, and with some clever ctags useage I was able to extract the actual implementation of each syscall, but changes to what those syscalls *do* might actually be in other functions
06:14 < koala_man> just read the entire section 2 of the manual
06:14 < Elronnd> does the syscalls manpage show when changes to syscalls happened?  Like if it was introduced in 2.6 but in 3.4 some new flag was added will it show that?
06:15 < Sitri> You can answer that by reading it
06:16 < koala_man> Elronnd: the ABI doesn't change
06:16 < Elronnd> koala_man: I mean backwards-compatible changes
06:34 < PsychoBoB> guys
06:34 < PsychoBoB> deepin distro
06:34 < PsychoBoB> is better?
06:37 < sacules> better than?
06:39 < cmj> ?
06:45 < sacules> know any good GUI program that lets you configure qt themes and stuff?
06:45 < jim> PsychoBoB, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaHzHkD7X0Y
06:50 < saderror256> hello
06:50 < saderror256> im testing out my irc client
06:50 < jim> hi
06:51 < saderror256> please respond if you see my messages
06:51 < jim> weems to work
06:51 < saderror256> jim: yay
06:51 < saderror256> am i logged in?
06:51 < jim> I mean seems to sork
06:51 < saderror256> how do i check on irc if im logged in
06:51 < jim> if you weren't you couldn't speak here :)
06:51 < rud0lf> /notice self i'm in!
06:52 < saderror256> oh right, forgot that i couldnt talk if i wasnt logged in :P
06:52 < rud0lf> i guess you're in after END_OF_MOTD or ERR_NO_MOTD
06:52 < rud0lf> at last this is how i manage it in bot i made
06:53 < jim> saderror256, if you'd like help with automatically logging in securely when you start your irc client, please visit #freenode :)
06:53 < saderror256> jim: thanks!
06:53 < rud0lf> oh i understood "my irc client" as "client made by me"
06:53 < saderror256> well, i just wanted to make sure that i was "logged in"
06:53 < rud0lf> nvm then
06:53 < saderror256> nope, im on konversation
06:54 < jim> saderror256, aside from that, are you enjoying linux?
06:54 < saderror256> jim: heck yah
06:54 < jim> great :)
06:54 < jim> which dist are you running/
06:54 < jim> ?
06:54 < saderror256> ive been messing around with kde plasma
06:54 < saderror256> debian
06:54 < saderror256> 9.0
06:54 < saderror256> long story short, i managed to install without the need of a usb
06:54 < saderror256> or cd
06:55 < rud0lf> saderror256: if you use android smartphone, you might look at KDE Connect
06:55 < saderror256> its a very long story, but arch was actually completely wiped from my system, did some basic commands to ensure it was just arch, and wow, it was debian!
06:55 < rud0lf> it's like my second hand now
06:55 < jim> ok... what do you get when you run: cat /etc/debian_version?
06:55 < saderror256> rud0lf: i use it a lot
06:55 < rud0lf> :)
06:55 < rud0lf> i love shared clipboard
06:55 < rud0lf> saves time and frustration
06:56 < saderror256> jim: you mean os-release?
06:56 < jim> no, just that
06:56 < saderror256> neofetch and screenfetch both cat thoush files
06:56 < saderror256> it shows me my info on my release of course
06:56 < saderror256> debian 9.0 stretch
06:56 < saderror256> just to skim it out
06:57 < jim> I dunno what os-release does... thing is, if you're not running 9,4, you could be :)
06:57 < rud0lf> how far does it stretch?
06:57 < rud0lf> ;)
06:57 < saderror256> rud0lf: from buzz debian 0.? to debian 9.0 stretch, stretchy
06:57 < jim> I had buzz :)
06:58 < phinxy> I'm on blurry fish butt :)
06:58 < saderror256> im a youngin linux user so not me
06:58 < saderror256> but i know the history :P
06:58 < saderror256> phinxy: is that a character from toy story?
06:58 < phinxy> oh so thats what its referencing
06:58 < saderror256> yep
06:58 < jim> saderror256, do you want to run 9.4?
06:59 < saderror256> buzz, stretch, sid, jessie, wheezy... cant you tell??? :P
06:59 < jim> that was fast...
06:59 < saderror256> jim: not really, im happy with what im one
06:59 < saderror256> xP
06:59 < saderror256> im on 9.4
06:59 < saderror256> sorry for saying 9.0 lol
06:59 < saderror256> i meant 9.4
06:59 < jim> oh you are, that's the latest
06:59 < jim> or 9.5 maybe
07:00 < jim> maybe not
07:00 < saderror256> nope
07:00 < saderror256> i was a before arch user
07:00 < saderror256> but arch was giving me some issues
07:01 < saderror256> arch is okay, but its community sucks, updates a little too frequently (more than i was expecting from a rolling distro), and made me manually have to fix things when i wanted some work to get done
07:01 < saderror256> it got in my way at the worst times
07:01 < jim> arch is probably for intermediate/advanced folks
07:01 < Sveta> did their community help you with the fixes?
07:01 < saderror256> jim: i found it pretty easy, the wikis are a blast
07:01 < saderror256> Sveta: nope, the wikis did
07:02 < Sveta> oh good
07:02 < noobly> does unix suck
07:02 < saderror256> before i stay let me do some final touches which require some "reboots" of my irc client
07:02 < saderror256> so dont mind the tiny joinspam
07:03 < jim> noobly, we don't know... we run linux!
07:03 < noobly> arch is fine for noobs as well!
07:03 < noobly> saderror256: arch community is excellent imo
07:03 < jim> that could be true for some, but there are easier dists
07:04 < jim> that's true, I've heard good things about their community and their woki
07:04 < sacules> archwiki is a godsend
07:05 < noobly> jim: certainly, but I don't feel like arch, with it's admirable documentation, is "too advanced" for a beginner
07:05 < sacules> usually go there before reading the manual
07:05 < morfin> hello
07:05 < jim> it's good for when you need to configure things by hand
07:05 < jim> hi
07:05 < morfin> what means proto=RSN in wpa_supplicant?
07:05 < morfin> AES?
07:05 < noobly> arch wiki is what tldp wanted to be, too bad it's not distro agnostic!
07:05 < saderror256> hey im back, are you receiving these messages? sorry i have to talk like im in space or something, messing with irc clients is messy
07:05 < morfin> lol, i used Arch Linux wiki to solve some other distro issues)
07:06 < noobly> morfin: same here
07:06 < jim> saderror256, yep
07:06 < saderror256> yeay \o/
07:06 < saderror256> morfin: same, i use them on debian, ubuntu, mint, fedora, centos, and heck, every wiki (besides package manager replacements) works just fine
07:07 < morfin> well, 2 biggest sources are Gentoo and Arch wikis)
07:07 < saderror256> gentoo wikis are handy for compiling stuff
07:07 < noobly> and 'man'!
07:07 < saderror256> lets not forget man :P
07:07 < saderror256> and if you need a quick tip on how to use a tool, theres always --help
07:08 < morfin> because when you use Gentoo you at least *should* understand which packages are required and which aren't
07:08 < chchjesus> Hi guys
07:08 < jim> hi
07:08 < chchjesus> What's up?
07:08 < jim> sky
07:08 < noobly> if you had to break down components of the (gnu)linux  os that worth learning what would they be?
07:08 < saderror256> morfin: id use gentoo, i am a developer and have to compile lots of software everyday, so using CFlags would be a HUGE 1 up for me
07:08 < saderror256> hey chchjesus
07:08 < chchjesus> jim: Actually, you're wrong. If you're using gnome3, the header bar is up
07:08 < noobly> chcjesus: hi
07:09 < jim> why?
07:09 < chchjesus> noobly: What do you mean by components?
07:09 < chchjesus> There's a lot going on on a GNU/Linux OS
07:10 < noobly> chchjesus: I don't know, but it's easier to get a map of what to learn if it's broken down into components. I've been asking myself the same question, an I've come up with linux kernel, bash, gnu coreutils/toolchain and AWK&Sed
07:10 < noobly> easier for me at least
07:11 < saderror256> ive been messing around with kde plasma lately
07:11 < chchjesus> noobly: What is your end goal? What do you want to achieve? Do you want to learn just how to use them? Or how they work? Or?
07:11 < saderror256> its a fine desktop environment
07:11 < chchjesus> saderror256: KDE is beautiful tbh
07:11 < chchjesus> Really customisable, and looks really good
07:11 < saderror256> chchjesus: all i change is the wallpaper and the thing look fantastic
07:11 < noobly> i want to be a high ranking linux mage, to be part of the old guard some day
07:11 < chchjesus> my only problem with it is that when I last used it in 2015, it was really buggy
07:12 < saderror256> kde plasma 5-5.6 were the buggy days of plasma
07:12 < saderror256> which is why i avoided it
07:12 < chchjesus> noobly: Learn how to use bash, and learn how to contribute to the linux kernel
07:12 < saderror256> but after that, its basically became even better than ever and super stable
07:12 < chchjesus> And install Arch, then Gentoo, then Linux From Scratch
07:12 < Elronnd> uhhh
07:13 < Elronnd> that's a bit steep learning curve
07:13 < saderror256> chchjesus: isnt that a little bit too far?
07:13 < saderror256> like telling a baby to get a job and hope it does in a week
07:13 < Elronnd> learn bash, learn c, learn assembly, install lfs (no need for arch, although it helps), then modify the linux in your lfs
07:13 < noobly> chchjesus: seems our reasoning is similar, that's been my plan as of late. just started taking my bash and kernel edu more seriously
07:13 < Elronnd> keep in mind that the first three steps will take *years*
07:13 < cmj> ><
07:13 < jim> well that's gonna be like a really hard video game with thousands of puzzles
07:14 < saderror256> why are you saying "learn bash"
07:14 < saderror256> bash is easy?
07:14 < Elronnd> ikr, you should learn zsh
07:14 < saderror256> easier than C of course
07:14 < Elronnd> because zsh is better than bash
07:14 < noobly> Elronnd: sounds like I'm the right (slow) track then
07:14 < saderror256> Elronnd: you misunderstood me
07:14 < saderror256> im saying bash language is easy
07:14 < saderror256> super easy
07:14 < saderror256> and bash itself is easy as well
07:14 < jim> bash is usually your connection to the power of your somputer and OA
07:14 < jim> OS
07:15 < noobly> saderror256: define easy
07:15 < Elronnd> saderror256: but it has many idiosyncrasies and you need to know it
07:15 < saderror256> noobly: easier than starting out with C
07:15 < jim> it might be easy, but it's not without quirks
07:15 < saderror256> ive never had a problem with it in my life
07:16 < saderror256> i do basic bash script and basic  bash usage, i dont see what makes it "hard to use"
07:16 < saderror256> its not like your going to be overwritting your kernel using bash or messing with memory
07:16 < strive> heh
07:16 < strive> Valid.
07:16 < jim> I like to tell new people this: read a man page per day, get good at bash (or whichever shell you've chosen as your login shell) and pick a non-shell scripting language to learn
07:17 < Elronnd> it's something that if you run into, you'll want to know
07:17 < Elronnd> and you don't want to see something you don't understand and then get hung up on understanding it, because that only gets in the way
07:17 < saderror256> jim: instead of non-shell script language, you should just say "programming language" :P
07:17 < saderror256> but the "man page per day" thing sounds informative and will help me learn a lot
07:17 < jim> well I'm not including compiled languages
07:18 < Elronnd> there's a compiler for python
07:18 < saderror256> ^^
07:18 < Elronnd> and interpreter for c
07:18 < jim> maybe python is a good choice because it's easy and powerful
07:18 < Elronnd> and java/c# really straddle the line between interpreted and compiled
07:18 < saderror256> its easy but not "super" powerful
07:18 < chchjesus> Oh, sorry, I just assume people know C already lol
07:18 < chchjesus> Also you don't need much assembly, if any, for kernel programming these days
07:18 < saderror256> assembly scares me
07:18 < saderror256> maybe im just skittish
07:19 < saderror256> i develop an os in assembly
07:19 < Elronnd> saderror256: in that case you should learn it!  Conquer your fear!
07:19 < saderror256> but its a fork of mikeOS :(
07:19 < saderror256> apart from that, mikeOS is helping me learn it so im getting some where :)
07:19 < ExploitedKernel> Is there a place where, I can see all the man commands? and for what they do also
07:19 < Sveta> saderror256, consider #learnprogramming, ##programming, and ##asm
07:19 < saderror256> ExploitedKernel: xman can do this
07:19 < saderror256> im in ##programming
07:19 < Elronnd> ExploitedKernel: should be in /usr/share/man/manN, where N is a number from 1-8 or so
07:19 < Sveta> ExploitedKernel, i assume you want to see a list of all commands which are available to you
07:19 < jim> chchjesus, C programming, on the face is kinda easy, except once you get into pointers and direct memory allocation, that stuff's hard
07:20 < saderror256> Elronnd: ls /usr/share/man/man*
07:20 < Elronnd> wazzat??  I don't know bash
07:20 < saderror256> pointers are kinda easy, but dma gets confusing
07:20 < ExploitedKernel> kk all check it out
07:20 < Elronnd> direct memory allocation?
07:20 < Elronnd> like malloc?  Or memmap?
07:20 < saderror256> Elladan: yeah
07:21 < saderror256> sorry for textspeak
07:21 < jim> saderror256, there's a book "the c companion" meant to be an advanced companion for a c primer
07:21 < saderror256> jim: i want a copy of the one and only original c book
07:22 < Elronnd> k&r ftw!
07:22 < jim> one sec
07:22 < chchjesus> I know C already. I'm going through K&R though to touch up on it
07:22 < saderror256> what is K&R?
07:24 < saderror256> whoopsies
07:24 < saderror256> sorry im back
07:24 < jim> saderror256, http://www.dipmat.univpm.it/~demeio/public/the_c_programming_language_2.pdf
07:24 < saderror256> last time i will ask, do you see these messages?
07:24 < jim> nope
07:24 < chchjesus> saderror256: hi
07:24 < saderror256> jim: lol
07:25 < saderror256> jim: thanks
07:25 < jim> canpot see these messages at all
07:25 < saderror256> whats a "canpot" :P
07:25 < Elronnd> saderror256: k&r is _The C Programming Language_, a book by the creator of c and some other guy
07:25 < Elronnd> their last names are _K_ernighan and _R_itchie, hence k&r
07:26 < saderror256> Elronnd: thanks
07:26 < jim> saderror256, there's a huge collection of programming books
07:26 < saderror256> so guys
07:26 < saderror256> when it comes to low level assembly development
07:26 < jim> Elronnd, yeah, as the posted pdf
07:26 < saderror256> should i do os development
07:26 < saderror256> or should i do simple hello world programs etc
07:26 < saderror256> on my local computer?
07:26 < jim> saderror256, do you know asm?
07:27 < saderror256> jim: i know a little nasm
07:27 < Elronnd> I would start by writing userspace applications
07:27 < Elronnd> and once you get into writing advanced logic, start writing an os
07:27 < saderror256> userspace as in simple user applications right?
07:27 < Elronnd> yes
07:27 < jim> ok... for asm, I suggest to people, also learn forth
07:27 < saderror256> ok
07:27 < Elronnd> make sure to use osdev.org
07:27 < Elronnd> wiki.osdev.org
07:27 < jim> and hack on it for like a month straight
07:27 < saderror256> jim: will do
07:27 < saderror256> i guess i will host stuff on my gitlab on my experiences
07:28 < Elronnd> and once you finish making the os, you should design a custom cpu architecture for it, and a custom language, and actually get it to run on those
07:28 < jim> saderror256, did you say you run debian?
07:28 < saderror256> jim: yes
07:28 < MLarabel> hey everyone, i figured out how to boot off of LVM PV files on a USB stick, the trick is your custom dracut module must hook into the "initqueue" phase and not into the "pre-trigger" phase, duh!!!
07:28 < jim> apt install gforth
07:28 < saderror256> Elronnd: are you joking?
07:29 < saderror256> jim: thanks, ill look into it
07:29 < jim> saderror256, it's mostly for training your mind for what you need to do in asm
07:29 < Elronnd> saderror256: I am not
07:29 < Elronnd> see nand2tetris.org
07:29 < longxia> jim: how will learning forth help one with learning assembler?
07:30 < pnbeast> jim, what's that link point to?  You're not posting links to unlicensed, copyrighted material on a Freenode channel, are you?!
07:30 < Elronnd> (but start with the os.  A good book, I found, is 'programming from from the ground up')
07:30 < jim> longxia, because you use a stack for calculations all the time
07:30 < jim> google pointed me to it
07:31 < pnbeast> If you want good programming material related to Linux, look for Advanced Linux Programming, freely available online, and either TLPI by Kerrisk or APUE by Stevens, et al.
07:31 < longxia> jim: i see your point. He could use dc for that too :)
07:31 < pnbeast> Those will not cover basic C, though.
07:33 < Elronnd> pnbeast: archive.org hosts a copy of k&r, and they take great pains not to publicly host things which could get them sued (although they do keep private copies of such material, for posterity
07:33 < pnbeast> I haven't heard that K&R has been licensed freely.  Maybe it has.  I kind of doubt it, TBH.
07:34 < jim> longxia, in asm you (1) use a stack all the time, you'll be loading the stack before calling functions and cleaning up after... and (2), writing stuff in asm is often like using a stack in that you normally have a lot of prep work before doing pretty much anything, and some clean up work after
07:35 < Elronnd> pnbeast: https://archive.org/details/CProgrammingLanguage2ndEditionByBrianW.KernighanDennisM.Ritchie
07:35 < longxia> jim: i know, i learnt it on Z80 in the 80's. Not many registers available then so it meant pushing and popping all ot the time.
07:36 < jim> longxia, learning and using forth will help train your mind for what you have to do in asm
07:37 < longxia> jim: maybe, but i would just hop straight into asm and save the time spent on forth. You'll be forced to learn using the stack anyway.
07:37 < jim> plus if you hack at it for hours every day for about a month, you also encounter how forth code is "compiled"
07:38 < Elronnd> longxia: I never used forth, jumped straight into asm.  I think I turned out ok
07:38 < jim> maybe you know how to swim already, me, I'd rather not be thrown into the 16' deep end of the pool immediately :)
07:39 < jim> aside from which, forth has a builtin assembler :)
07:39 < jim> complete with forthlike control structures
07:40 < saderror256> should i do x32 assembly or x16 bit
07:40 < jim> something you may remember from the 80s :)
07:40 < saderror256> mind the x's
07:40 < saderror256> i meant x86
07:40 < jim> and it might be why you're willing to jump right in ;)
07:40 < Elronnd> isn't x32 64-bit execution but 32-bit pointers?
07:40 < Sveta> Elronnd, thanks for the link. it is surprising that such a recent publication is already available in public domain
07:41 < jim> saderror256, you're probably gonna have to do most of those
07:41 < saderror256> jim: most of what
07:41 < longxia> jim: i agree that starting on an 8 bit architecture made things simpler than they are nowadays.
07:41 < jim> 64, 32, 16, even 8 bit
07:41 < Ameisen> saderror256 - 8008 assembly
07:42 < Ameisen> or build a zuse z3
07:42 < saderror256> ive been doing 16 bit
07:42 < saderror256> ill use 16 bit assembly :)
07:42 < saderror256> but...
07:42 < saderror256> maybe ill learn 32 bit assembly
07:42 < jim> I had some 6502 machines, 68000
07:42 < sacules> hey guys I need a little help with a bash script, I have this for reading battery capcity: BATC=$(</sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/capacity). and this for status: BATS=$(</sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/status). But when I do STATUS=`echo "$BATC"\% "$BATS" \| $DATE `, it doesn't show any numbers, the date and other symbols show properly
07:43 < saderror256> what do symbols eax and ebx, etc. stand for?
07:43 < Elronnd> registers
07:43 < saderror256> b i think is for byte
07:43 < jim> registers
07:43 < MLarabel> does anyone need any help?
07:43 < thaumavorio> They used to stand for specific purposes. Not all of them do these days.
07:43 < ayecee> nope, b is just a letter in sequence.
07:43 < Elronnd> b isn't byte.  eax, ebx, ecx, edx are all the same size
07:43 < MLarabel> i just got finished solving a big problem if anyone has a problem that i could solve?
07:44 < Elronnd> notice how the middle letter is increasing
07:44 < saderror256> i know they are registers, but what do the symbols stand for
07:44 < longxia> saderror256: those are the names for the 32 bit sized registers (e-prefix)
07:44 < jim> MLarabel, we all need some help at one time or another
07:44 < saderror256> im just curious, its not needed
07:44 < sacules> MLarabel: if you know bash scripting, I need help then
07:44 < Elronnd> I don't think that they stand for anything
07:44 < MLarabel> sacules: hit me
07:45 < MLarabel> jim: sometimes i feel like a spider in a plastic bag
07:45 < sacules> I have this for reading battery capcity: BATC=$(</sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/capacity). and this for status: BATS=$(</sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/status). But when I do STATUS=`echo "$BATC"\% "$BATS" \| $DATE `, it doesn't show any numbers, the date and other symbols show properly
07:45 < Elronnd> there's also r(a,b,c,d)x, which is 32 bits
07:45 < Elronnd> no, 64 bits
07:45 < Elronnd> eax is one half of rax
07:45 < Elronnd> and then there's ax, which is 16 bits, half of rax
07:46 < ayecee> half of eax
07:46 < jim> saderror256, plus you'll need to understand logical, bitwise and math operations, and how to implement other math operations based on what you have
07:46 < Elronnd> right, what ayecee said
07:46 < Elronnd> and a, which is half of ax.  If you go way far, back, you just have registers a, b, c, d, e, h, l.  And pairs of those
07:47 < thaumavorio> Aren't they al and ah, not a?
07:47 < jim> I remember those from 8080 asm
07:47 < Elronnd> ahh, right
07:47 < Elronnd> sorry, my memory is not perfect
07:47 < jim> no need for it to be
07:47 < Elronnd> also there is an f register.  Pairs were af, bc, de, hl
07:48 < MLarabel> sacules: it seems fine to me
07:48 < MLarabel> hey graphene you are using digital ocean
07:48 < sacules> and it works if I put it on the shell manually, but not in the script
07:48 < MLarabel> hmm what a dilly of a pickle
07:49 < jim> saderror256, one approach is to learn asm on a computer you already have... another, to get one of those small-chip dev boards and learn to program it
07:50 < jim> I got one of those arduino chips, a smaller version, and I found out there's a forth for it
07:51 < longxia> saderror256: have a look here if you're going to do asm on intel: https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-sdm
07:52 < jim> another approach to the whole programming thing, is to do SICP and lisp
07:52 < jim> once thought of as the best intro to CS on the planet
07:54 < sacules> MLarabel: 87% Discharging | Sun 01 Jul, 02:52 when isolating that part on another script, but on the original it shows % | Sun 01 Jul, 02:52
07:55 < sauvin> Wow... Netflix and Hulu work again even though I'm on a VPN. What gives!?
07:55 < Sveta> it allowed me to learn that you are a netflix user
07:55 < sauvin> Feh, way I hear it, in the USSA, netflix uses YOU.
07:56 < sacules> MLarabel: I think that an older version might still be loaded in memory and running on the background, maybe resetting the whole will help
07:57 < saderror256> so i wrote a x86 program
07:57 < saderror256> now what do i do with nasm to compile it?
07:59 < Elronnd> I recommend yasm as it's moderner and fancier.  But afaik they're switch-compataible
07:59 < Elronnd> nasm -felf64 (or whatever) -o binary mysource.s
07:59 < Elronnd> (could be elf32, or 16)
07:59 < saderror256> ok :)
08:00 < Elladan> saderror256, re your question, "What should I do with assembly development" the answer is "Don't do assembly" 99.9% of the time.
08:00 < saderror256> Elladan: i understand very well, i thought it would be helpful to teach me the ins and outs of how a computer works
08:00 < Elladan> Learning how the computer works is one of the few good reasons to do assembly stuff.
08:01 < saderror256> and even develop oses for personal use on minimal systems with basical access to system level stuff
08:01 < Elladan> However, for that purpose, you might want something a little less bizarre than x86. MIPS, say.
08:01 < saderror256> what is mips?
08:01 < Elladan> You really don't want to develop your own OS in assembly.
08:01 < saderror256> ok
08:02 < Elronnd> however, you do need to use *some* assembly in creating an OS
08:02 < saderror256> of course
08:02 < Elronnd> even if you write most of it in c, or whatever other language
08:02 < saderror256> mostly for the bootloader
08:02 < Elladan> You would need to know assembly and use it for certain extensions, but you don't need to use it for core code.
08:02 < Elronnd> well, it might be a fun project to make an os all in asm
08:02 < saderror256> and some for kernel
08:03 < MLarabel> hey tana mongeau
08:03 < Elladan> In practical terms, what you use assembly for these days is pretty much a) debugging, b) limited extensions (i.e. inline assembly) where the language can't issue a special instruction, c) optimization, primarily vectorization, or d) hacking.
08:04 < Elladan> Pretty much in that order I'd say.
08:04 < Elladan> (Where (a) is just /reading/ assembly, not writing it)
08:04 < saderror256> nasm -f elf first.asm
08:05 < saderror256> ld -m elf_i386 -s -o first first.o
08:05 < saderror256> did the trick for me
08:05 < saderror256> Displaying 9 stars
08:06 < saderror256> *********Segmentation fault
08:06 < saderror256> why the segfauly?
08:06 < saderror256> oh
08:06 < saderror256> i forgot to call kernel exit
08:08 < Elladan> saderror256, MIPS is a RISC instruction set architecture that was never super common, but still exists in a lot of embedded devices (routers, that sort of thing).
08:09 < Elladan> saderror256, in the past it was used in various game consoles and so on as well.
08:09 < Elladan> saderror256, for learning ASM, it's notable in that it has a particularly simple opcode set to understand. It's very regular and disassembles easily.
08:10 < Elladan> Of course, that's not going to teach you /x86/ assembly, but if you just want to learn it might be fun.
08:12 < Elronnd> afaik, the n64 used it
08:12 < Elronnd> so you could write n64 games
08:12 < Elladan> The Playstation 2 used it as well.
08:12 < Elladan> ARM is a lot more popular these days, but I've never done ARM assembly so I don't know if it's a good one to start with.
08:14 < Elladan> Fun Linux fact: Linux was ported to the PS2, but was pretty inefficient due to poor choices Sony made in chip design.
08:14 < Elladan> They left out all semaphore instructions from their custom MIPS chip, because they didn't see why a video game that always ran in supervisor mode would need them.
08:15 < Elladan> However, Linux needs them badly for things like pthread atomics and the like. When they did the port, they had to create a special syscall which emulated a semaphore instruction by disabling interrupts.
08:16 < saderror256> i made my first program :)
08:16 < saderror256> this is really fun
08:16 < saderror256> http://dc4.us/ps/a/WyFqpYTnjv/
08:17 < saderror256> if you are curious about that pastebin-like service, i wrote that in php a while back ago, it kinda sucks but does the job
08:17 < saderror256> its called pastespace
08:17 < yottanami> Hey all
08:17 < Elronnd> saderror256: you should write a pastebin in asm
08:17 < saderror256> Elronnd: ill stick with php :)
08:18 < yottanami> I have Debian Linux on my Asus ux410 laptop and I got several errors about ACPI during boot. here are log files http://dpaste.com/0076MSQ and http://dpaste.com/0Z0XA8Y How can I fix it?
08:18 < saderror256> is this a whole joke now lol, you should write "this" in asm
08:18 < Elronnd> hey, someone wrote a whole *forum* in asm
08:19 < thaumavorio> Ah, asmBB
08:19 < saderror256> oh god
08:19 < Elladan> saderror256, back in the '80s some people decided to write an entire Amiga graphics editing program in ASM, because they felt that high level languages like C were cheating.
08:19 < thaumavorio> Insanity
08:19 < saderror256> i wrote a forum in php
08:19 < Elronnd> and a pastebin is easy, I wrote one in 60-ish lines of lisp
08:19 < saderror256> it kinda sucks though
08:19 < Elladan> Think like... the gimp, but 100% assembly.
08:19 < thaumavorio> Roller Coaster Tycoon was written in assembly
08:20 < Elronnd> as was zsnes
08:20 < Elladan> I think most '80s era 8-bit and 16-bit video games were in assembly.
08:20 < Elladan> It's pretty hard to get a C runtime in 16k or RAM or whatever.
08:20 < saderror256> pastebin-knockoff is easy indeed, simply take a textbox and ask to input text, input the text and remove any malicious characters and replace them with the html corrusponding ones, and wallaa
08:20 < Elronnd> no need to replace malicious characters
08:20 < saderror256> htmlspecialchars does the trick
08:20 < Elronnd> just serve your paste-text as text/plain
08:21 < saderror256> Elronnd: you can do that
08:21 < saderror256> i was a noob and didnt know this was a thing
08:21 < saderror256> so i used HTML and formatted it x|
08:21 < saderror256> the thing is dead now and sucks
08:21 < saderror256> but i continue to use it
08:21 < Elronnd> rewrite it in asm!
08:21 < Elronnd> will be a fun project
08:21 < Elronnd> '''fun'''
08:22 < saderror256> '''hair-ripping, gun-shooting, head slamming fun my friends!'''
08:22 < saderror256> lets rewrite systemd in asm
08:23 < saderror256> call it systema
08:24 < Elronnd> say that one more time I fucking dare you
08:24 < Elladan> One actually useful thing people still use asm for (though perhaps less and less) is vectorization.
08:24 < Elronnd> aren't there compiler intrinsics for that?
08:24 < saderror256> Elronnd: ?
08:25 < Elladan> You could try to recode some fun algorithmic transform like e.g. a graphics filter using SSE vector assembly to make it fast.
08:25 < Elronnd> saderror256: pls no asm systemd
08:25 < Elladan> Elronnd, there are wrappers you can use so the code is effectively ASM but with C syntax.
08:26 < saderror256> Elronnd: lol it was a joke :P
08:26 < saderror256> im guessing ";" means comments in assembly?
08:26 < Elronnd> yeah
08:26 < Elronnd> afaik # works too in some implementations
08:27 < Elladan> Elronnd, I mean personally that's what I'd do, asm is a pain. But some people find asm more inviting because they get more direct control of register assignment etc.
08:27 < lessthan0> if I had to pick one motherboard/chipset/bios for a basic workstation that has a large install base and long service life (EOL) with excellent linux support what would be some likely candidates?
08:27 < fscale> Please help, my fedora workstation distro with wayland isn't showing 1920 x 1080 as a resolution for me to select :( https://imgur.com/a/2YZ86cF
08:27 < sauvin> Elronnd, mind the language.
08:27 < lessthan0> preferably something with 64bit BAR (above 4G decoding)
08:28 < saderror256> ok this is wierd but cool
08:28 < Elronnd> sauvin: please ,try to understand  .He was trying to rewrite systemd in assembly
08:28 < lessthan0> I want to get really good at building bios and bootloaders
08:28 < saderror256> i managed to screw up something
08:28 < sauvin> Elronnd, let him. He'll be back in... oh... fifteen years or so.
08:28 < lessthan0> but I need to stop switching to different motherboards
08:28 < saderror256> sauvin: im not rewriting it x)
08:28 < Elladan> fscale, your monitor is not 16:9 so it is suggesting the 16:10 equivalent, 1920x1200
08:29 < saderror256> why rewrite it
08:29 < saderror256> idk
08:29 < Elronnd> right, his problem
08:29 < saderror256> drop it
08:29 < sauvin> Good thing, too, because assembly isn't portable across architectures.
08:29 < lessthan0> maybe an off the shelf dell or ibm or something with an i5
08:29 < saderror256> so i managed too. get strings from another assembly program, possibly the kernel?
08:29 < saderror256> i kept increasing the number and it got funnier and cooler
08:29 < Elronnd> sauvin: that way his clone can replace systemd, and then we can all flee to ARM and be free forever of systemd!
08:30 < lessthan0> something that will always be widely available on ebay long after they stop making them
08:30 < fscale> Elladan: TBH, my monitor is 16:9. I was able to run Windows in it in that resolution. Right now, I've selected 1680 x 1050 & I've get these two black bars on the side.
08:30 < sauvin> Eh, by then, we'll all be using Y86-128 or something.
08:30 < sauvin> fscale, can you get arandr to offer that resolution?
08:31 < Elronnd> it's unclear that there is or will ever be call for 128-bit OSes
08:31 < Elronnd> idk, maybe we'll move to risc-v
08:31 < lessthan0> some people would argue that systemd is not supported on all architectures
08:31 < saderror256> Your password is *****Segmentation fault
08:31 < saderror256> ^ this cracked me up a little
08:31 < Elladan> fscale, the highest native resolution it lists, 2650x1600, is 16:10. If you choose that resolution, are there black bars and are squares rectangles?
08:32 < Elronnd> lessthan0: systemd is supported on zero architecture
08:32 < saderror256> its supposed to show random stars i made in assembly, but i was tinkering and got a segfault and them the result turned funny
08:32 < Elronnd> it's awful in all of them
08:32 < fscale> sauvin: xrandr says Size 1920 x 1080 not found in available modes
08:32 < saderror256> not actual password
08:32 < lessthan0> Elronnd because it is middleware?
08:33 < lessthan0> because it is a daemon?
08:33 < fscale> Elladan: Yes there are black bars on the side in that resolution too.
08:34 < Elladan> fscale, what resolution is your monitor supposed to be?
08:34 < fscale> 1920 x 1080
08:34 < Elladan> fscale, what's your monitor's model #?
08:34 < fscale> It's a laptop
08:34 < lessthan0> I think that using intrinsics would speed it up but you could also speed it up without intrinsics just by targeting specific hardware and use cases
08:34 < Elladan> fscale, laptop type?
08:34 < lessthan0> or you could just leave it and tweak it
08:35 < pnbeast> lessthan0, do you know that song about some woman filing her nails while they drag the lake?
08:35 < fscale> Type meaning? It's Asus Vivobook R542U
08:36 < lessthan0> pnbeast that sounds strange and cryptic. perhaps you could explain it for me.
08:36 < pnbeast> Strange and cryptic?  No, sorry, it's just some lyrics in a song.
08:37 < lessthan0> I don't know why you ask me instead of asking the room
08:37 < Elladan> fscale, do you have any external monitors plugged in?
08:37 < lessthan0> not sure why you assume I am qualified to know song lyrics of a song you heard
08:37 < fscale> Nope, only the laptop. I don't own an external monitor at all.
08:37 < pnbeast> lessthan0, oh, because of your nick.  But I think I guessed incorrectly about your nick.
08:38 < lessthan0> it is a nick about mathematics and manic depression
08:38 < saderror256> so ive been working on this idea, its called gwdWM, its a window manager you can use in your browser
08:38 < Elladan> fscale, OK, Fedora seems very confused since it's listing a resolution that is higher than your laptop supports.
08:38 < saderror256> say your at a library etc
08:38 < lessthan0> two things that swim in my subconcious
08:38 < fscale> Only things I have plugged in is the charger & mouse.
08:38 < fscale> Elladan: It seems so. There must be a way to force a custom resolution?
08:38 < saderror256> you hock it up to a server with php, set the master password for gwdWM and then you can do things like modify server files, edit text like the servers homepage, and some other gags
08:38 < saderror256> is it a good idea?
08:39 < lessthan0> maybe a smashing pumpkins song if I had to make that connection
08:39 < Elladan> fscale, there are ways, yes..
08:39 < saderror256> basically if you only have a computer with access to the web like at a library
08:39 < saderror256> any other ideas i would appreaciate
08:39 < pnbeast> lessthan0, those would not really be related, then.  Good night/day/whatever.
08:39 < saderror256> ive already got the login manager finished and now im working on window management. then ill write the tools and programs
08:40 < saderror256> will also add shell in a box support :)
08:41 < lessthan0> pnbeast I found it...Elvis Costello - Watching the detectives
08:41 < pnbeast> saderror256, I've seen an ssh client on a website.  The "why" escapes me, for both, but I'm sure it'd be an interesting curiosity.
08:41 < pnbeast> lessthan0, yes, I know it.  I only wanted to know whether you know it.
08:41 < Elladan> fscale, for example this random page showed up from a google search. https://gist.github.com/debloper/2793261
08:41 < pantato> how to make new window manager show up on ubuntu login screen?
08:42 < pantato> as an option
08:42 < saderror256> pnbeast: and the other thing is that, i live with a slow server, and since php is a server side langauge, does the work and goes, working with vim can be very slow.
08:42 < saderror256> so the editor *with syntax highlighting, i will add that as well* will be useful for edits without slowdowns
08:42 < dongbag> Hi
08:42 < fscale> Elladan: Ok thanks, I'll try to work out a solution.
08:42 < dongbag> I want to know the maximum memory which I have mapped
08:43 < dongbag> like physical memory,
08:43 < saderror256> even if the internet goes down which happens here a lot, your program stays in the browser until reloaded
08:43 < saderror256> dongbag: bios
08:43 < dongbag> I have 2G of ram, and I only mapped 1G of it, the rest is for DMAs
08:43  * pnbeast rolls a few 20 sided dice so he can produce a good random number for dongbag.
08:43 < saderror256> or uname -a
08:43 < dongbag> like I need to know the physical address of the highest possible DRAM location
08:43 < mous> dongbag: free -m
08:43 < mous> oh
08:44 < mous> not sure on that one, have not mapped RAM since the commodore 64 lol
08:44 < pnbeast> saderror256, isn't that called, variously, tmux or screen?
08:44 < saderror256> function randomnumber() { return 4; /* guarenteed to be random by dice roll */ }
08:44 < saderror256> pnbeast: im saying you know when you are on a server and it sometimes has a spike and slows down?
08:45 < dongbag> eyy i got it
08:45 < dongbag> cat proc/iomem
08:45 < saderror256> when you are editing files, in a browser or in this case gwdWM editor, it will stay in cache until pushed
08:45 < dongbag> 80000000-8fdfffff : System RAM :)))))))))) thanks guys!
08:45 < pnbeast> saderror256, sure.  And you want that server to run a web server and produce a GUI with PHP, in addition to its standard load?
08:45 < saderror256> wow im a noob, i forgot that uname -a doesnt give ram info lol
08:45 < lessthan0> pnbeast can you explain why you think that my nick is a reference to elvis costello? I don't see any connection at all
08:46 < pnbeast> lessthan0, your nick is a song he wrote.
08:46 < lessthan0> ohhh
08:46 < saderror256> pnbeast: yep
08:46 < lessthan0> never heard it
08:46 < Elladan> dongbag, "dmidecode" has lots of fun information, but I'm not sure it has the mapping you need.
08:46 < dongbag> Thanks Elladan, I was able to find it in proc/iomem
08:46 < pnbeast> I think it's all about British politics.
08:47 < lessthan0> this less than zero song is about nazis
08:47 < lessthan0> and the other song is about killing a girl
08:47 < lessthan0> this guy is fucked up
08:47 < Elladan> dongbag, cool.
08:48 < saderror256> lessthan0: LOL, you just made my day
08:48 < lessthan0> shit maybe I should change my nick
08:48 < saderror256> lessthan0: array0 :P
08:48 < pnbeast> You don't like him because he's against nazis and murder?
08:48 < dongbag> I don't like nazis
08:48 < lessthan0> I don't take sides
08:49 < dongbag> murders could be ok if they are killing nazis =)
08:49 < lessthan0> or listen to songs about murder
08:49 < pnbeast> dongbag, it's okay, no one else likes them, either.  We decided that in the 1940s.
08:49 < saderror256> night
08:49 < lessthan0> even if you write a song about killing nazis or beating them up or hating them it is still about murder and hate anyway. I don't get bogged down with those feelings
08:50 < Elladan> Sometimes, life isn't fair and bad things happen.
08:50 < pnbeast> lessthan0, it has nothing to do with you, either, so you can also relax.
08:50 < lessthan0> yeah I'm not worried about it
08:50 < lessthan0> I believe in free speech so good luck to elvis costello
08:51 < dongbag> I'm working on a project with tools that half support linux and half windows =(
08:51 < pnbeast> Excellent.  We're all clearly very well adjusted and happy.  Except for dongbag.  He's only half way there.
08:51 < lessthan0> dongbag have you figured out the VM yet?
08:52 < dongbag> the drivers don't quite work
08:52 < lessthan0> do you use vlans to pass stuff along?
08:52 < dongbag> I have to manually swap boot OS
08:52 < pingfloyd> lol, I thought you were calling him dongbag
08:52 < dongbag> Im testing the EEPROM write endurance of my BIOS
08:52 < lessthan0> do you have NAS with samba?
08:52 < pingfloyd> dongbag: why?
08:53 < Elladan> fscale, FWIW you might want to make sure your laptop BIOS is up to date and there aren't any weird options in it that read like "Act totally insane regarding monitor EDID codes"
08:53 < pingfloyd> dongbag: is your goal to brick the system or something?
08:53 < dongbag> i said in jest, I just keep swapping the boot drive
08:53 < pingfloyd> updating the bios is often tempting fate since bios update utils can be buggy.
08:53 < pingfloyd> but sometimes it is necessary to update it
08:54 < Elladan> I'm always happily surprised when I find a BIOS that has a not-insane way to update.
08:54 < pingfloyd> often many "hardware issues" are resolved by it
08:54 < pingfloyd> Elladan: HP's util is BS
08:54 < pingfloyd> Elladan: it semi-bricked my laptop
08:54 < Elladan> Like, my desktop you just put a BIOS update package on a FAT formatted USB stick and it'll run the update itself.
08:54 < pingfloyd> fortunately there was an alternate way or I would have been screwed.
08:55 < pingfloyd> it was pretty infuriating though
08:55 < Elladan> No util needed.
08:55 < dongbag> these days it's pretty safe, there are usually two bios BANKS and if one fails to boot you just go back to the old one
08:55 < pingfloyd> yeah, that was the alternate way.
08:55 < dongbag> or at least that's what I remember...
08:55 < pingfloyd> but HP's documentation was misleading
08:55 < fscale> Elladan: Asus comes with a preinstalled BIOS flasher. I'll try that but I'll have to boot back into Windows. Thanks.
08:56 < pingfloyd> I found out about using win+b at boot to go into bios update mode without util
08:56 < lessthan0> dongbag changing the boot order in the bios settings?
08:56 < pingfloyd> WTF didn't manual say to do it that way to begin with
08:56 < Elladan> Computers still have manuals?
08:56 < pingfloyd> Elladan: on the OEM's site
08:57 < pingfloyd> not included usually these days
08:57 < pingfloyd> which is BS
08:57 < dongbag> if you change the boot order it just changes the boot-order in the NVM(eeprom probably), it's like a mini bios update
08:57 < pingfloyd> I remember the days when you bought a computer you got a real manual that was hundreds of pages long.
08:57 < pingfloyd> it was the size of LOTR
08:57 < Elladan> Those days were awesome.
08:57 < pingfloyd> hell yeah
08:57 < pingfloyd> and they had tons of coding examples
08:57 < Elladan> Back when people actually documented their hardware interfaces too
08:57 < pingfloyd> and wiring diagrams
08:58 < Elladan> Instead of just claiming that all their moronic silicon bugs are trade secrets.
08:58 < pingfloyd> they actually had useful info.  Imagine that.
08:58 < pingfloyd> instead of the usual fluff and no shit sherlock info.
08:59 < Elladan> Modern manual: a one page glossy showing a graphic of the computer, the power cord, and arrows showing that you plug one into the other and into the wall.
08:59 < Elladan> And another arrow pointing at the power button.
08:59 < pingfloyd> now they're a fold out poster with symbol made for complete and utter morons
08:59 < pingfloyd> *symbols
08:59 < pingfloyd> like made for someone that can't even read
09:00 < pingfloyd> like anyone living in a padded room is going to care about a computer
09:00 < Elladan> Like anyone who can't figure it out on their own is going to look at the glossy, instead of demanding that their niece plugs it in for them and teaches them how to point and click.
09:01 < lessthan0> dongbag so you are happy with it or do you have any questions about it?
09:02 < lessthan0> you might not need to dual boot
09:02 < lessthan0> VM's are getting much better know with hardware pass through support
09:02 < lessthan0> s/know/now
09:03 < dongbag> I think I'm ok with swapping like a neaderthal, I don't need to be in windows that much anyway
09:03 < dongbag> but I probably should get the VM working lol
09:03 < pingfloyd> the glossy you use for cat litter
09:04 < pingfloyd> dongbag: if you have vt-d you should definitely go virtual
09:05 < pingfloyd> may take a bit of tweaking, but you can get it running damn near native speed if you do.
09:05 < dongbag> is that pre or post specter fix
09:05 < lord|> spotted a HURD user on reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/8v4wi3/unity8_for_arch_gnulinux_project/e1l1tmk/?context=420
09:05 < pingfloyd> even if you only have vt-x it's still worth it in my opinion
09:05 < dongbag> yeah, think I'll try to set it up
09:06 < dongbag> can I boot off an existing drive? or do I need a fresh image
09:07 < pingfloyd> what do you mean?
09:07 < pingfloyd> I came in late
09:08 < dongbag> I have two drives, a linux one and windows. Can I boot into the windows drive while running linux?
09:08 < lessthan0> dongbag https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00X5HAKXC/
09:08 < lessthan0> hot swap for two ssd
09:08 < lessthan0> if you air gap them then you never need to enter the bios ever
09:08 < lessthan0> just power off, air gap, power on
09:09 < pingfloyd> dongbag: you mean for dual boot or for virtualizing?
09:09 < dongbag> yeah
09:09 < dongbag> I don't think my POS motherboard supports hotplug
09:09 < lessthan0> unless your bios is helping you out by deleting the boot entry for the drive permanently when it is not detected
09:09 < lessthan0> no just power off
09:09 < lessthan0> its not so bad if you don't need to open it up and unplug the cables.
09:10 < dongbag> I'm resetting and choosning the boot drive in the BIOS - but if there is a way that I can get a VM running of one of the drives while the other image is running that would be dope
09:10 < lessthan0> makes life easy without the worry for VM or entering bios
09:10 < lessthan0> I think you need to image the drive before you can VM
09:11 < lessthan0> I'm not an expert on that
09:11 < pingfloyd> dongbag: usually there should be a key you can hit at post to select what to boot.  on mine you hit esc or f9
09:11 < dongbag> yup, that's what Im diong
09:11 < lessthan0> like DD your windows drive to windows.img
09:11 < lessthan0> F8 is the key to boot menu
09:11 < lessthan0> then after the bios win 8 has a F8 menu
09:12 < lessthan0> they do different things
09:12 < lessthan0> both F8
09:12 < pingfloyd> after that it is up to your boot manager
09:12 < pingfloyd> like grub can boot windows
09:12 < lessthan0> yes
09:12 < lessthan0> and windows can boot grub
09:12 < pingfloyd> I would highly recommend making grub your main bootloader too
09:13 < lessthan0> lilo for windows
09:13 < pingfloyd> as apposed to Windows Boot loader
09:13 < dongbag> I'll try that - thanks
09:13 < lessthan0> check if lilo works on your version of windows
09:13 < pingfloyd> it is possible to do either way, but the latter way you have to mess with BCD which is crap.
09:13 < lessthan0> I think it works on win 7
09:13 < lessthan0> secure boot is a problem because the motherboard wants to boot only one OS
09:14 < pingfloyd> secure boot is shit
09:14 < lessthan0> there is no way to boot two OS'es from the bios F8 if one of them requires secure boot and the other one requires secure boot disabled
09:15 < pingfloyd> yeah, just turn that shit off
09:15 < lessthan0> you can always turn off secure boot after you install your OS with secure boot
09:15 < pingfloyd> there's ways to bypass it anyway
09:15 < lessthan0> but then you lose secure boot
09:15 < pingfloyd> secure boot isn't that secure
09:16 < lessthan0> yes I discovered a huge flaw when it first came out
09:16 < pingfloyd> there's been a couple
09:16 < konimex> I still don't know why do we need Secure Boot in the first place
09:16 < lessthan0> the motherboard vendors hand out apps to change bios settings from within windows
09:16 < pingfloyd> konimex: you don't, if you take care of physical security
09:17 < pingfloyd> I think secure boot is more of bait by Redmond and friends
09:17 < konimex> well my computer is not on a north korean nuke test site
09:17 < lessthan0> so if your infection runs in windows there is nothing stopping it from modifying the way windows boots
09:17 < konimex> so.. physical security is good enough i guess
09:17 < dongbag> konimex are you sure you are not kim jun un?
09:17 < konimex> i'm not that fat so nah
09:17 < pingfloyd> konimex: secure boot is the Emperor's New Clothes
09:18 < pingfloyd> so you're Kim Jong Il?
09:18 < lessthan0> konimex there was a big exploit with virus persisting in bios and MBR. hiding in protected ram space and being invisible to windows kernel
09:18 < pingfloyd> I knew you faked your death!
09:18 < lessthan0> think about that
09:19 < lessthan0> you can't reformat to remove a virus
09:19 < pingfloyd> kind of one more reason to run Windows in a VM
09:19 < lessthan0> and can't test for it since it lies about ram usage
09:19 < lessthan0> there is a protected ram space that only the bios can see
09:19 < lessthan0> good place to put a persistent root kit
09:20 < konimex> lessthan0: does that exist in GPT too or "it's just a good measure" ?
09:20 < lessthan0> this is why they invented write bit disble
09:20 < pingfloyd> and you can pretty much count on OEMs to drop the ball with bios
09:20 < lessthan0> then secure boot was next
09:20 < pingfloyd> as in W^X?
09:20 < lessthan0> I'm not sure if microsoft inlfuenced this patch to kill linux
09:21 < pingfloyd> nice thing is W^X has become a rather common standard
09:21 < lessthan0> these exploits get less common now since all this stuff is patched
09:21 < konimex> but it has a "good" side effect which "kills" linux
09:21 < pingfloyd> seems like any sane dist is using it as is windows these days
09:21 < konimex> since all binaries have to be signed by microsoft
09:22 < pingfloyd> konimex: exactly
09:22 < lessthan0> the big problem is political in how motherboards that only boot with secure boot are kinda blocking users from dual booting linux + windows
09:22 < pingfloyd> konimex: that's not a side effect though, that's the agenda
09:22 < pingfloyd> behind secure boot
09:23 < pingfloyd> these days many average users are aware of Microsoft's shenanigans
09:23 < lessthan0> you have keys that get set when you install then after first reboot it is turned on and your keys are locked in
09:23 < pingfloyd> even they are, because microsoft has such a blatant pattern
09:24 < lessthan0> they purchased github
09:24 < fscale> how do I launch nautilus as root? sudo nautilus doesn't seem to work.
09:24 < lessthan0> and try to take over the linux enterprise market by reselling microsoft branded linux (azure)
09:24 < fscale> Nautilus = File explorer of fedora
09:25 < pingfloyd> someone once mentioned that you can use self signed certificates for secure boot, but it is still a bad thing, because most users aren't going to have a clue of how to do that so their dreams of running linux or unix sinks like the titanic and they bite the bullet and be Redmond's slaves once more.
09:25 < lessthan0> they have a controlling interest in the linux foundation too
09:25 < lessthan0> game over
09:25 < pingfloyd> so mission accomplished for MS still
09:25 < iodev> what exactly is the ebtables service in ubuntu?
09:25 < lessthan0> just another 10 years for them to tighten the noose
09:26 < pingfloyd> canonical already sold out
09:26 < iodev> lessthan0: stop the foolishness, we won! Microsoft implemented the Linux standard
09:26 < pingfloyd> canonical is now their lap dog
09:26 < lessthan0> haha
09:26 < lessthan0> yup
09:26 < lessthan0> they have hands in everything
09:26 < pingfloyd> and WSL is a cheap imitation of linux
09:26 < lessthan0> iodev well it is a half win
09:26 < lessthan0> linux wins
09:27 < lessthan0> but users have to pay
09:27 < iodev> pingfloyd: stop badmouthing my kernel
09:27 < pingfloyd> they implemented that because they knew it would scratch and itch for users curious about linux.
09:27 < pingfloyd> that way they stay on Windows
09:27 < iodev> WSL is Linux, kind-of
09:27 < lessthan0> anyone can make new keys and anyone can turn off secure boot
09:27 < Aph3x-WL> WSL doesn't use the linux kernel
09:27 < Aph3x-WL> so no it's not linux
09:27 < iodev> it's clean-room reverse-engineered
09:27 < pingfloyd> it uses Window's kernel
09:28 < iodev> so it's proprietary, so they could publish it without GPL
09:28 < pingfloyd> it's a service for it
09:28 < lessthan0> it is only the people who have a rare motherboard that only boots with secure boot and can not turn it off
09:28 < iodev> pingfloyd: sure, I know that, I watch Channel 9
09:28 < pingfloyd> just setting the record straight
09:28 < lessthan0> or have some bios that can dual boot but not have dual boot with two sets of keys
09:29 < pingfloyd> as far as I could tell, you can't run dd in it
09:29 < lessthan0> I have yet to see a bios that can store two sets of keys at the same time
09:29 < iodev> pingfloyd: you can run dd into files
09:29 < lessthan0> and dual boot with F8 with secure boot turned on
09:29 < pingfloyd> iodev: sure, but what about into devices?
09:29 < iodev> but no, you can't dd harddrives
09:29 < iodev> or usb drives, just use etcher
09:29 < pingfloyd> so it's basically completely neutered
09:30 < iodev> cmon! that's just a minor flaw for security reasons
09:30 < iodev> look at the good side, it can run native ELF64 for linux written in nasm
09:30 < lessthan0> <pingfloyd> that way they stay on Windows
09:30 < lessthan0> yes make it just a little more difficult
09:30 < lessthan0> to scare the noobs
09:30 < iodev> lessthan0: stop being paranoid, next time you're gonna tell me .NET core for linux is bad
09:31 < iodev> even though I run my site on it with nginx
09:31 < lessthan0> MS knows about stopping people who have a little trouble and get scared
09:31 < iodev> lessthan0: no noob would use dd anyway
09:32 < lessthan0> I didn't suggest DD for secure boot that was someone else
09:32 < lessthan0> I only know that you can turn off secure boot and clear the keys to do an install of an OS
09:32 < pingfloyd> dd is just a remind that you're not running linux
09:32 < iodev> lessthan0: I like Linux okay, but I'm not joining a cult, I like MS also :-)
09:32 < lessthan0> and back up the keys
09:32 < pingfloyd> *reminder
09:32 < iodev> I go by the "use what works" philosophy now
09:33 < pingfloyd> you're running a service on Windows that is a cheap imitation
09:33 < lessthan0> I will always install windows if that is a job I am hired to do
09:33 < lessthan0> gotta eat
09:33 < pingfloyd> you'd be better off running linux in a vm on Windows if you want Linux in Windows
09:33 < iodev> pingfloyd: no, it's not a cheap imitation, it's got full linux permissions support
09:33 < iodev> using NTFS extra variables
09:34 < iodev> I can bind, listen, socket, read
09:34 < lessthan0> depends if you want to do rollbacks of your windows box
09:34 < lessthan0> put win in the vm
09:34 < iodev> lessthan0: right now I'm chatting from WSL
09:34 < lessthan0> and scripting the boot up of the windows VM
09:34 < iodev> using weechat
09:34 < pingfloyd> lessthan0: that's what a respectable linux user would do
09:34 < iodev> I use my WSL to SSH and to manage Linux servers ...
09:35 < pingfloyd> lessthan0: but we're talking about beginners
09:35 < pingfloyd> and the bait and switch of WSL on them
09:35 < iodev> pingfloyd: are you aware that I'm a sys admin, no beginner, and still I think WSL is great?
09:36 < pingfloyd> iodev: a Windows Admin?
09:36 < iodev> no, a Linux admin
09:36 < iodev> I even sent in a Linux patcht to the linux kernel once
09:36 < pingfloyd> then why would you want anything to do with Windows?
09:37 < iodev> pingfloyd: because Visual Studio
09:37 < pingfloyd> I'm a Windows Admin by trade, but a linux admin/user by passion
09:37 < iodev> because ASP.NET MVC
09:37 < iodev> now runs on Linux
09:37 < pingfloyd> if we're going to flash pointless credentials
09:37 < iodev> pingfloyd: oh, I didn't mean it like that
09:37 < pingfloyd> ok
09:37 < iodev> but I did have gentoo and arch with i3wm and dwm from suckless
09:38 < pingfloyd> so you're a linux admin by trade?
09:38 < iodev> I just wanted to show that not only beginners choose WSL and there is no shame, yes, Linux admin as freelancer
09:38 < pingfloyd> if so, that's funny how our views are more for what we don't have to work with.
09:38 < lessthan0> I never heard of it before today
09:39 < lessthan0> I'm learning docker for dev ops
09:39 < iodev> lessthan0: I like docker :-)
09:39 < iodev> that's how I run my Gogs
09:39 < lessthan0> but might be learning more red hat now
09:39 < lessthan0> trying to get my AWS certs
09:39  * iodev hates AWS
09:40 < lessthan0> its where the jobs are
09:40 < iodev> I know how to use AWS, but I can't stand it
09:40 < iodev> Azure is worse :D
09:40 < lessthan0> if you don't want to be a javascript wordpress guy
09:40 < pingfloyd> iodev: I kind of hate all that stuff
09:40 < lessthan0> this is where the all the jobs are
09:40 < pingfloyd> iodev: I'm looking forward to when SaaS dies off
09:41 < lessthan0> haha
09:41 < iodev> pingfloyd: I like SaaS
09:41 < lessthan0> autodesk fusion 360
09:41 < iodev> but I think it should be simple, like Vultr or DigitalOcean do it
09:41 < pingfloyd> it won't completely die off, but the bandwagon will have calmed down.
09:41 < lessthan0> not sure is 4GB streaming install is SaaS?
09:41 < pingfloyd> and people will start realizing it's not a silver bullet
09:41 < sensibel> A command running was killed by my system and dmesg shows this line [274287.983861] Out of memory: Kill process 189193 (chrome) score 301 or sacrifice child what does it mean?
09:41 < iodev> you see I don't want to click next, next, next (like on AWS) with a million options
09:41 < iodev> I just want to get to SSH
09:41 < lessthan0> bandwith is now a cost factor for opex
09:42 < lessthan0> if you are a saas provider or saas customer
09:42 < lessthan0> it was never a thing
09:42 < granttrec> are sed gnu extensions enable by default?
09:42 < lessthan0> that is the only thing you have zero control over
09:42 < iodev> lessthan0: AWS has On-Demand, Spot, etc....
09:42 < pingfloyd> lessthan0: they're trying to paint a picture to set everyone for more fleecing.
09:42 < iodev> it's a complete platform on it's own :D
09:43 < iodev> EC2, Route 53, ....
09:43 < lessthan0> it is definitely more expensive to use AWS vs in house
09:43 < iodev> Lightsail
09:43 < lessthan0> but the colocation and hyperscale makes up for it almost. depends on the use case
09:43 < pingfloyd> lessthan0: in the wash it usually is, also you have less control over things getting fixed that you need.
09:44 < iodev> lessthan0: I don't know, I use DO and my bill is 6$/month (with VAT), and that's cheaper
09:44 < iodev> so SaaS isn't always more expensive than in-house
09:44 < pingfloyd> lessthan0: but of course they paint a much different picture with their brochure
09:45 < lessthan0> but think about it like this. if I was in the USA and serving customers in the UK with saas. I would want AWS to decrease bandwith
09:45 < lessthan0> even though I might have enough rack space here
09:46 < lessthan0> its late
09:47 < lessthan0> ttyl
09:48 < iodev> of course, my customer's bill is quite higher, I only use my server for hobby, they have actual business
09:48 < morfin> how sudoers match commands?
09:49 < iodev> morfin: what do you mean?
09:49 < iodev> I know visudo can allow users, groups, or specific commands for specific group/user
09:50 < iodev> I mean with visudo you edit /etc/sudoers that allows you to configure what you allow
09:50 < morfin> i mean command should exactly match one in sudoers
09:50 < morfin> even one extra space can screw up thing
09:50 < iodev> what command?
09:50 < iodev> sudoers doesn't contain commands
09:50 < morfin> i am trying to understand why this command require user password:
09:51 < morfin> ... /bin/cp /tmp/wifidata '/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf'
09:51 < iodev> you runnin that with sudo? morfin
09:51 < morfin> www-data ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD:/bin/cp /tmp/wifidata '/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf'
09:51 < morfin> ep
09:51 < iodev> NO
09:51 < morfin> this is what i've got in sudoers
09:51 < iodev> that will never work
09:51 < morfin> why?
09:51 < iodev> www-data ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD:/bin/cp
09:51 < za1b1tsu> I'm doing some automated downloading and installing, I shouldn't use the /tmp folder?
09:52 < iodev> you can only match cp executable, not arguments
09:52 < iodev> morfin:
09:52 < morfin> crap
09:52 < mouses> za1b1tsu: no, use a /home/user_name/tmp folder (where user_name is your user)
09:52 < morfin> this is bad
09:52 < iodev> no, think a little, morfin, you can match any executable
09:52 < sauvin> morfin, one way to dodge that restriction is to write a script. :D
09:52 < iodev> why not make a sh scripts
09:52 < morfin> i just thinked about this )
09:52 < iodev> sauvin: I was about to say that!
09:53 < pingfloyd> za1b1tsu: /tmp should be fine
09:53 < morfin> lulz
09:53 < pingfloyd> also /tmp usually gets cleaned out on reboot with most dists
09:53 < sauvin> iodev, maybe, but I sayed it first. I thinked faster than you. :D
09:53 < morfin> well, i turned on this in my config at my workplace
09:53 < iodev> sauvin: you typed faster
09:54 < sauvin> I used to be able to play Beethoven on a piano. Maybe that has something to do with it.
09:54 < sauvin> :D
09:54 < za1b1tsu> pingfloyd: I'm getting some strange behaviour with ansible on /tmp, I'm using get_url with dest /tmp, and in the output instead of the /tmp/fil_name I get   "dest": "/tmp/e715952a-5e5b-11e7-8b78-f0ea70c3f476", weird stuff.
09:54 < iodev> sauvin: oh, I play nothing
09:54 < sauvin> You can't say that if your keyboard fails the blacklight test.
09:54 < MrElendig> that is easy, just mash the dark sounding keys
09:54 < iodev> morfin: don't forget to add the sha-bang!
09:55 < MrElendig> instant dramatic beethoven
09:55 < pingfloyd> za1b1tsu: you sure that has anything to do with /tmp?
09:55 < iodev> #!/bin/bash to the script and make it executable!
09:55 < iodev> with chmod +x
09:55 < pingfloyd> za1b1tsu: also is your /tmp set up right?
09:55 < za1b1tsu> pingfloyd: well I've tested it on a mac vm, and it showed properly: "dest": "/tmp/exercism-linux-64bit.tgz"
09:56 < iodev> or better yet, morfin, chown it www-data use and chmod it 700 (so only www-data can run it)
09:56 < za1b1tsu> pingfloyd: these are vagrant boxes, so no.
09:56 < iodev> and then add it to /etc/sudoers
09:56 < pingfloyd> za1b1tsu: in theory it shouldn't be an issue, but there may be some caveats involved in your situation.
10:00 < pingfloyd> za1b1tsu: since it works in your mac vm fine, this leads me to think maybe the problem is with vagrant
10:00 < pingfloyd> za1b1tsu: its configuration or implementation of /tmp
10:01 < pingfloyd> this is assuming no mistakes made between trying to both environments
10:08 < za1b1tsu> pingfloyd: sorry I crashed
10:09 < pingfloyd> no problem
10:09 < pingfloyd> what was the last thing you saw
10:11 < za1b1tsu> pingfloyd | za1b1tsu: in theory it shouldn't be an issue, but there may be some caveats involved in your situation.
10:12 < za1b1tsu> I think I'm going to setup a temp folder in home
10:12 < pingfloyd> za1b1tsu: I was thinking maybe the problem is with vagrant and its configuration or implementation of /tmp since it worked fine in your mac vm (this is assuming no mistake were made between trying the two envs).
10:16 < za1b1tsu> pingfloyd: yeah, but this turns in to an unnecessary headache. I'm going to use custom tmp folder.
10:20 < morfin> weird
10:21 < morfin> this does not work either: "www-data ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD:/var/www/html/bin/update_wpa_config.sh"
10:22 < koala_man> doesn't work for what?
10:22 < morfin> it require password when i sudo /var/www/html/bin/update_wpa_config.sh
10:22 < morfin> as www-dsata
10:22 < morfin> *www-data
10:22 < Tywin> Anyone know of a tool with which to migrate a Windows partition?
10:22 < MrElendig> why not just use filesystem permissions for this?
10:23 < morfin> i do not want to give permissions to www-data to write file
10:23 < MrElendig> morfin: how exactly are you testing
10:23 < morfin> only via sudo
10:23 < koala_man> morfin: from a terminal?
10:23 < morfin> su -s /bin/bash www-data and then sudo /var/www/html/bin/update_wpa_config.sh
10:28 < morfin> and i can't remember if i have script a.sh and then create symlink do_something would $0 have do_something?
10:30 < pingfloyd> test it
10:30 < pingfloyd> make a script with echo "$0" and then symlink it
10:31 < morfin> i saw something like this(but all symlinks were leading to one binary) in routers )
10:32 < morfin> it's "hack" to dispatch all commands without having lots of binaries
10:35 < pingfloyd> symlinks or hardlinks?
10:35 < ayecee> that's kind of a personal question
10:48 < TR1950X> I use chrome as my browser. Is it possoble to position the location bar at the bottom?
10:49 < jozefk> o/
10:50 < morfin> Yeah i abuse $0 ))
10:54 < jozefk> Anybody knows what happens if I try to boot MX Linux live off USB flash drive but if I don't have enough RAM for that amount of files needed to be copied into it?
10:55 < dementorr> Hi! Can someone tell me an CLI tool that I can use to indent some C or C++ code?
10:56 < jim> jozefk, you mean the initrd?
10:57 < jim> you're gonna need enough ram for the initrd and the kernel at the same time... after the boot process is done with the initrd, it should free it
10:58 < jozefk> initially, nothing is copied to RAM but when I installed some apps things started being copied to RAM on boot. Right not it's around 1.5GB
10:58 < jim> so after that, you'd need enough ram for the kernel and whatever else (like processes)
10:59 < jim> I dunno about that part... I guess you'd need enough for the kernel plus that 1.5g during normal operation
11:00 < jozefk> I think I will have to try on some other machine and see what happens. Because right now at home and at work I have a lots of RAM
11:00 < jim> that seems strange to me... I've never heard of an app that copys stuff to a ramdisk on boot
11:00 < jim> (other than an initrd, which isn't needed after boot)
11:00 < jozefk> that's because the Live system is persistent
11:01 < jozefk> but initially it didn't copy anything to RAM. only when I started adding apps from repo
11:01 < Karut> Hi, I have a strange problem with a udev rule, the "add" part works as expected but the "remove" part doesn't... See: https://paste.pound-python.org/show/SswKSF4Nde3JqDfenelY/  (I've read what google says but i still cant fix it)
11:02 < jim> well persistant -should- mean it keeps stuff -on disk- between boots and during normal operation
11:02 < jim> ram isn't persistant between boots
11:03 < jozefk> right. but MX linux is made is such a way that the apps you add are later copied to RAM on boot.
11:03 < jim> I guess something could be arranged that way, but I still haven't heard of it myself (maybe I'm not the best person to talk to :)
11:03 < Smithe> How can I tunnel requests between 127.0.4.1 on a computer and 127.0.4.1 on the other computer?
11:04 < jozefk> thank jim anyway :)
11:04 < jim> welcome
11:04 < Smithe> I mean packets to 127.0.4.1 > SSH tunnel or something >127.0.4.1 on the second machine
11:04 < jim> (I didn't do much this time :)
11:05 < jim> jozefk, and just because I don't know about it does not mean it can't exist
11:06 < jozefk> I see it does exist I just don't know what happens in cases there is no enough RAM.
11:19 < Smithe> How can I tunnel requests so that one machine can contact the other on his loopback interface?
11:19 < Smithe> For example machine1 >packets to a certain ip> machine2 on 127.0.4.1
11:47 < jozefk> jim https://pasteboard.co/HsqatIu.jpg
11:52 < jim> jozefk, so yeah, other stuff (copying the persistant thing to ram) is going on... I didn't know that :)
11:53 < folatt> Hello there, does anyone have knowledge on how to use fcitx?
11:53 < folatt> I want to be able to type Japanese characters.
12:09 < R3x_> Hello everyone, Is there anyone here who has an Idea about the Kernel Address Sanitizer ? I have been looking at the implementation and have a couple of questions.
12:17 < kubast2_> What are the unallowed characters in linux filenames ?
12:17 < kubast2_> or they depend on filesystem?
12:18 < kubast2_> like you cannot create .folder in ntfs(unless fuse automatically makes the folder hidden and I'm just retarted)
12:19 < kubast2_> most UNIX file systems 	Yes 	Yes 	any 8-bit set 	/ null 		255 ok I found it
12:19 < kubast2_> unless I'm supposed to look at POSIX
12:19 < kubast2_> still it's same I guess
12:20 < kubast2_> besides the lack of special characters :shrug:
12:20 < kubast2_> ok I see "Allowed Characters"
13:16 < paul424> Hello, I consider buying old linux magazines from 2006 ; wouldn't  this magazine's knowlege devaluate ?
13:17 < paul424> http://www.linux-magazine.com/Issues/2006
13:17 < djph> "depends"
13:18 < paul424> djph, on what, could you elaborate ?
13:20 < mar77i> hmm, is there a sort of framework around making results of gethostbyname() somehow scriptable?
13:22 < djph> paul424: on what the topic of the article is.  I mean "security practices" have changed considerably in the last decade; and sysvinit has been replaced by systemd(ugh)
13:23 < paul424>  sysvinit has been replaced by systemd(ugh) yeah that's great UGHT
13:24 < paul424> Is there any simple switch I can get back to the sysvinit on Opensuse 42.3 ?
13:24 < paul424> btw,..
13:24 < djph> no idea, not a suse guy
13:24 < paul424> hmmm ok
13:28 < BluesKaj> Howdy all
13:35 < phogg> paul424: most distributions don't support two init systems. Switching manually is probably not easy.
13:38 < [Daemon]> you could write some static wrapper... that do the hard job to handle these inits
13:56 < Sitri> <paul424> Is there any simple switch I can get back to the sysvinit on Opensuse 42.3 ? <-- depends how full-ham they went.  systemd like to be dynamically linked to EVERYTHING.  Which means you pretty much need to recompile everything to completely remove it.  (Sauce: I'm currently doing that for Arch)
14:26 < c0mrade> Okay, who's got some time to help me on a certain project? It involves working with multiple dbs, python and a php later on.
14:52 < paranoid73> hello
14:54 < Dan39> hi paranoid73
14:55 < paranoid73> i don't know if someone could help me but i have a problem to use dbeaver on linux
14:55 < paranoid73> it's just a software to manage my databases
14:55 < paranoid73> let's me show error
14:56 < paranoid73> java.nio.ByteBuffer.flip()Ljava/nio/ByteBuffer;
14:57 < sanroot> pls suggest me channel for linux mint
14:59 < Dan39> sanroot: want me to google that for you? -_-
14:59 < Dan39> or search for it..
15:00 < triceratux> sanroot: http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/details.php?room=%23linuxmint-help&net=SpotChat
15:01 < sanroot> triceratux thanks ..:)
15:02 < Dan39> -_-
15:17 < cluelessperson> when using NFS,  the "all_squash" option isn't explained
15:17 < cluelessperson> does anyone know how to use it?
15:17 < cluelessperson> "To squash every remote user, including root, use the all_squash option. To specify the user and group IDs to use with remote users from a particular host, use the anonuid and anongid options"
15:18 < cluelessperson> okay, I did that, but now the other server cannot even mount the nfs, access denied
15:22 < searedvandal> according to man exports "Map all uids and gids to the anonymous user. Useful for NFS-exported public FTP directories, news spool directories, etc. The opposite option is no_all_squash, which is the default setting."
15:26 < cluelessperson> searedvandal: okay, that doesn't explain why I get "access denied" when I try to mount the nfs on another server.
15:27 < searedvandal> the anonymous user probably don't have access to the
15:27 < searedvandal> to the share
15:27 < cluelessperson> 192.168.99.4(rw,sync,no_subtree_check,all_squash,anonuid=0,anongid=1000)
15:27 < cluelessperson> nfs     auto,rw         0       0
15:27 < cluelessperson> searedvandal: the anonymous user is set as root
15:28 < searedvandal> yeah, I see this.
15:28 < cluelessperson> I'm squashing all access to this nfs mount as,   root,groupA
15:28 < cluelessperson> :P
15:31 < infinisil> Hey, libfoo.a is a static library, right? And because it is static it should work on all distros?
15:33 < phogg> infinisil: Yes and no, respectively.
15:33 < infinisil> Ah thanks
15:33 < infinisil> Wait what
15:34 < infinisil> Oh
15:34 < infinisil> Why not?
15:34 < phogg> .a files just contain .o files, which are for compile-time linking. They're just object files. Whether they "work" at compile time depends on what you're linkingn them against.
15:36 < searedvandal> cluelessperson, does the nfs-server report anything useful in logs or things like that? the settings you shared above look alright to me, other than squashing everything to root (which I've never tried myself). dunno if that can cause nfs to not like you?
15:36 < infinisil> phogg: Hmm, but these .a/.o files don't have some dependency on e.g. /usr/bin/foo which would make them not work on systems that don't have that path?
15:39 < phogg> infinisil: they're junks of code. They could depend on other chunks, or not. If you have a program which needs some_function() and you have a .o file which provides it but the behavior isn't what the program needs then it might link but not work.
15:40 < phogg> statically linked *executables* tend to work cross-distribution because all of their libraries are linked in. Someone still had to know at link time what would work.
15:43 < infinisil> phogg: Alright thanks, I think I get it now
15:45 < cluelessperson> searedvandal: turns out to be a version issue.  setting,  nfsvers=3  in client works
15:45 < cluelessperson> all works as expected
15:46 < searedvandal> cluelessperson, ah, didn't even think about that. never had to mess around with that myself. but glad you figured it out :)
15:53 < cluelessperson> searedvandal: thanks for the help regardless
15:53 < cluelessperson> usually I have to bug people about things that are just, badly documented...  :P
16:04 < mawk> my cursor is super slow all of a sudden, and a reboot won't fix that
16:05 < mawk> that looks like thermal throttling, it's 29°C at home, maybe more near the computers
16:05 < mawk> how can I be sure about that ?
16:05 < MrElendig> slow mouse != thermal throteling
16:05 < MrElendig> do you have a fancy mouse with a button to change the dpi?
16:06 < mawk> it's slow everything really
16:06 < mawk> but more visible with the cursor
16:06 < mawk> no, it's a very basic mouse
16:06 < mawk> just an on/off button
16:07 < mawk> let me try with another mouse
16:07 < MrElendig> htop, dmesg, journalctl -b
16:09 < mawk> yeah actually it's the mouse
16:09 < mawk> a less cheap mouse works better
16:09 < Pentode> is it wireless? maybe the batteries are dying. ;p
16:09 < Pentode> my old wireless mouse used to do that
16:10 < mawk> yeah wireless
16:10 < mawk> the batteries died like 3 or 4 times and everytime it just died in a second, not like that
16:10 < mawk> but good suggestion, let me recharge that
16:11 < Pentode> if it has a lithium ion battery it probably wont
16:11 < MrElendig> could be something interfearing with the signal too
16:12 < Pentode> i had nimh batteries in mine..
16:12 < MrElendig> what kind of mouse is this?
16:13 < mawk> single AA battery powered wireless no-name <$10 mouse
16:13 < mawk> and it sucks the charge from the battery pretty quickly
16:14 < mawk> with a fresh battery it works better indeed
16:15 < Pentode> yeah i just went back to wired
16:15 < Pentode> even nice ones die kinda quick
16:15 < Pentode> i dont think they are intended for people like us that sit in front of our machines alllll day ;p
16:15 < mawk> lol
16:15 < mawk> yeah
16:16 < Pentode> i mean mine would last like four or five hours, i guess thats good.
16:16 < Pentode> but not good enough. ;p
16:16 < mawk> that's not much
16:17 < Pentode> no its not, this was a older one / long time ago tho
16:17 < Pentode> it had a little cradle that was easy to just stick it in when you werent using it but its still not very convenient
16:17 < Pentode> i think a modern one with an internal lithium ion would probably last all day
16:17 < mawk> mine lasts several weeks on the AA battery
16:18 < Pentode> thats pretty good, lol
16:18 < mawk> yeah maybe after all
16:19 < mawk> but ergonomy-wise it's not good enough
16:19 < Pentode> tho this was in like 2002-03. and i think my batteries were cheap ebay specials
16:19 < mawk> making the users have recharged batteries at hand every other week or so
16:19 < Pentode> yeah
16:20 < Pentode> not bad tho if you have one that can be conveniently charged
16:20 < Pentode> but if you have to remove the batteries and all that mess
16:20 < mawk> yeah
16:20 < Pentode> i might get another one now that i know they last that long
16:21 < birdbolt1> does npm install install all the dependencies found in the node_modules folder?
16:26 < konimex> has anyone tried iwd? that wpa_supplicant replacement?
16:33 < MrElendig> konimex: ask your actual question instead
16:34 < MrElendig> konimex: because clearly someone have tired it, namely the ones who wrote it
17:34 < Pusteblume> right now i am looking at the order of installed packages (of a debootstrap of stretch) to do some kind of ranking. are there better methods?
17:35 < MrElendig> define "some kind of ranking"
17:35 < MrElendig> what is the actual goal?
17:36 < Pusteblume> i want to do a little webpage to honor engineers and developers. first is the kernel, of course
17:36 < Pusteblume> second maybe grub
17:39 < phinxy> What will the title of the webpage say?
17:41 < Pusteblume> well, yes, maybe a bit of a silly idea
17:42 < revel> "a bit of a silly idea" seems like a silly title.
17:43 < Dan39> Pusteblume: yea dude i dont know about that idea, specially giving a "ranking" to projects
17:43 < revel> ddate should be at the top.
17:44 < Dan39> and grub is 2nd in your opinion? i think your knowledge is lacking :P
17:44 < Dan39> do you even GNU bro?
17:44 < Pusteblume> :D
17:44 < alexandre9099> hi, is it possible to disable the oom-killer? it says that it is sacrificing children! That is too bad
17:45 < Dan39> alexandre9099: har har
17:45 < neon__> can I create a logic volume that only uses /dev/sdc2 ,and the other volume that uses /dev/sda1 and /dev/sdc1 ?
17:46 < neon__> *
17:46 < alexandre9099> out of sarcasm :D i'm trying to play rust (the game),but it consumes *lots* of ram, which leads to the oom-killer to take place, is there any way to at least put it less *restrictive*?
17:46 < neon__> /dev/sdc2
17:46 < Dan39> neon__: sure, why not? but why?
17:46 < neon__> Dan39, home on ssd+hdd ,rootfs and var on hdd
17:46 < Dan39> alexandre9099: if OOM takes place, then you are out of memory. you shouldn't disable it
17:47 < neon__> *ssd
17:47 < alexandre9099> Dan39, hmm i got to see how much ram it consumes, but i also got problems with blender consuming too much ram (like 10GB on my 16GB system) and it got killed
17:47 < Dan39> at the same time as Rust?
17:47 < alexandre9099> no
17:47 < neon__> or I might just use lvm for home I guess
17:47 < Dan39> was about to say
17:47 < Dan39> dont render while your game dude
17:48 < Dan39> alexandre9099: i think you need to buy more RAM
17:48 < Dan39> alexandre9099: do you have some swap?
17:48 < alexandre9099> i was not rendering at the same time as i was playing, it was on different times
17:48 < alexandre9099> i guess i have, let me check
17:49 < alexandre9099> 15.6GB RAM and 2GB swap
17:49 < Dan39> wtf, how is Rust using that much...?
17:50 < Dan39> maybe something else is wrong
17:51 < MrElendig> download more rem
17:51 < MrElendig> (and ram)
17:52 < alexandre9099> i tried it, i think i got viruses, it sayed that to install i needed root :D
17:52 < Dan39> alexandre9099: i have 16GB of ram also, if you gift me Rust ill test it and see how much it uses on my system ;)
17:52 < Hugbox> Nah just download more REM.  You can play any game you want in your sleep
17:53 < revel> MrElendig: Do you prefer Rem or Ram?
17:53 < alexandre9099> Dan39 nice try XD
17:53 < Hugbox> Personally I prefer to swap out my RAM for ROM.  Downside: it's useless.  Upside: it's hilarious
17:53 < revel> I prefer WOM.
17:53 < alexandre9099> the game is now on 2GB mark, loading stuff
17:54 < Dan39> dude, its 75% on steam, only $8
17:54 < MrElendig> revel: both, download more ram so that you can fit more rem
17:54 < Dan39> ill help you out :p
17:54 < Dan39> in game too
17:55 < alexandre9099> it reached 4GB now
17:55 < MrElendig> revel: https://downloadmorerem.com/
17:55 < Dan39> now we can be Rust bros. i haven't tried the game because im scared of starting without knowing someone already in it :P
17:55 < Dan39> initializing rem!
17:55 < alexandre9099> yeah, it is a little bit boring to start alone, but none of my friends like the game XD
17:55 < revel> Never seen that before.
17:56 < alexandre9099> 7GB
17:56 < alexandre9099> almost 8GB
17:56 < triceratux> MrElendig: new swagarch. linux 4.17 xorg 1.20.0. the guy is putting out monthlies [    0.000000] Linux version 4.17.3-1-ARCH (builduser@heftig-6515) (gcc version 8.1.1 20180531 (GCC)) #1 SMP PREEMPT Tue Jun 26 04:42:36 UTC 2018
17:57 < Dan39> alexandre9099: this looks to be known issue. rust uses all of your ram...  let me search some more and see
17:57 < alexandre9099> it finished loading on 11,4GB geez, that's a lot of ram :D
17:57 < Smithe> I need to create an ipip tunnel
17:57 < triceratux> waaa sabayon didnt put out an 18.06 monthly this year. something must be wrong over there. swagarch is suddenly the best rolling distro
17:57 < Dan39> "itemskins 0 fixes 90% of the memory leak issue."
17:57 < alexandre9099> Dan39, i guess that it loads all the files to ram
17:58 < Dan39> alexandre9099: set itemskins to 0 i guess? dont know what that means
17:58 < Smithe> The router must contact the ip address of my pc with an ipip packet directed to a certain source
17:58 < alexandre9099> Dan39, neither i, i'll try
17:58 < Dan39> "graphics.itemskins 0" in options
17:59 < Smithe> And the pc must redirect with iptables on a local address
17:59 < Dan39> "Yeah,i know,it will disable skins,but honestly,I prefer a better gameplay experience than some random textures."
17:59 < Smithe> Someone can help me?
17:59 < Dan39> https://www.reddit.com/r/playrust/comments/61oatr/your_game_is_stuttering_like_helltry/
17:59 < alexandre9099> Dan39, hmm it made no difference on the ram usage, i'll restart the game
18:00 < Dan39> Yeah Man! 2 days ago i saw that recommenation, but one guy recommended even delete all the workshop skins(steamapps/workshop/content/252490), i did it, and well, my issue was that Rust was using ALL my ram, (i have 8gb), so i had a lot of stuttering, i deleted that folder, and went to 5.5/6.5gb ram usage and no more stuttering :)
18:00 < Dan39> With graphics.itemskins 0 i think you have to enter the command every time you open rust, with the trick i said you only have to do it once, EXCEPT.. every time rust "load" a skin near you, you will download it the next time you open rust, so, every 2-5 days, delete all the workshop skins (or all except your skins and you will see ur skins :d)
18:03 < Dan39> alexandre9099: download me one of these while you're at it https://i.imgur.com/InsHBCo.png
18:03 < alexandre9099> let's see how it goes with graphics.itemskin 0 :D
18:03 < alexandre9099> wtf is that?
18:03 < Dan39> a HUGE bagel breakfast sandwhich
18:11 < alexandre9099> hmm still 11,4GB
18:11 < Dan39> alexandre9099: thats pretty crazy
18:11 < alexandre9099> maybe i could try on windows to see the ram usage
18:12 < Dan39> go for it
18:15 < alexandre9099> thing is... i'm lazy to reboot into the perfect OS :D i might do it later today
18:15 < Dan39> eww
18:15  * Dan39 doesn't dual boot anymore
18:17 < alexandre9099> well, i have it in a VM, but since i only have one GPU ... yeah, i have to *kill* everything that is a graphical interface on linux
18:18 < Dan39> heh
18:20 < Pentode> they are there only sections cut of the _top_ of the bagel
18:20 < Pentode> +why
18:20 < Pentode> -they
18:20 < alexandre9099> Dan39, strange thing is, on my laptop (has 6GB of RAM and 6GB of swap[i know it's too much]) it works *fine* (it is killed some times)
18:20 < Pentode> pentode += coffee
18:22 < Dan39> Pentode: i see. i dont know, later on in the video they end up cutting the entire thing up into pieces, all the way through, not just the top side :P
18:23 < Pentode> makes sense i guess ;p
18:24 < BenderRodriguez> how difficult is gentoo to install
18:24 < Dan39> BenderRodriguez: id guess it isn't difficult at all
18:24 < Hugbox> BenderRodriguez it's really just about how good you are at following instructions, and not skipping any steps you're unfamiliar with
18:25 < Hugbox> Kind of like Arch Linux.  It's not difficult unless you're doing it for the first time with no instructions whatsoever
18:27 < Hugbox> My only thing with distros like that is it really depends on how much time you want to spend configuring your system vs how much time you want to spend doing actual work
18:27 < Pentode> yeah. if you are going into it with the right mindset it's not bad.
18:27 < Dan39> the installation guide for gentoo looks pretty awesome
18:27 < Pentode> but if you arent. it has the potential to drive you insane.
18:28 < Pentode> yeah its pretty good
18:28 < Pentode> i was just looking it over
18:28 < Hugbox> It can be really fun to play around with, but at least for me personally it can be such a distraction from my actual work because I spend so much time tinkering with it
18:30 < azarus> problem is, with gentoo you spend so much time/energy compiling
18:30 < azarus> and it's package management isn't elegant :s
18:30 < azarus> an excessive amount of knobs to turn
18:30 < Dan39> as of like 10 years ago i don't get Gentoo still being self-compile everything. is there any difference now adays?
18:30 < Sitri> I've had emerge break itself and portage
18:30 < Sitri> :/
18:31 < azarus> Sitri: isn't emerge part of portage?
18:31 < Dan39> i get that back in like the 90s it might have been useful
18:31 < Sitri> Probably
18:31 < azarus> i used to be a gentoo evangelist, had it on everyting
18:31 < azarus> everything*
18:31  * Sitri wasn't that deep into Gentoo
18:31 < Dan39> i want to try gentoo, im just scared of the compile time haha
18:32 < azarus> maintaining my own kernel config was fun... for a while
18:32 < azarus> then i got tired of it
18:33 < Pentode> yeah i'm not into the idea really. i've done small installations from scratch on old hardware, thats enough really to satiate my appetite for that sort of thing. lol
18:33 < Pentode> i cant imagine compiling everything for a modern system. how long would that take? lol
18:33 < azarus> define modern system
18:34 < azarus> the compile times aren't that bad if you're a software minimalist
18:34 < azarus> and you can do other things at the same time
18:34 < Pentode> well thats what i mean
18:34 < Sitri> If you're doing it all serially on one machine in a manual way, yes that's a pain.
18:34 < Pentode> setting up a toolchain and doing a minimal system is one thing
18:34 < f00lest> I am unable to mount an sd card
18:35 < Pentode> but now-a-days people expect a full desktop environment, etc.
18:35 < f00lest> sudo fdisk /dev/sdb -l hangs
18:35 < azarus> well, haven't used a full desktop environment in years
18:35 < azarus> so i don't know their compile times, lol
18:35 < Sitri> Farm it out, have automation and it's not too bad.  But it's definately not something that's fun to do with only one person.
18:35 < Pentode> so many library dependencies.
18:36 < Pentode> im just thinking of what it would take to build everything you would expect to get on a typical distributions ISO, for example.
18:36 < Pentode> a few days?
18:36 < Pentode> lol
18:36 < azarus> what's in a typical distribution ISO? Alpine for example really doesn't have much
18:36 < azarus> not even bash ;)
18:37 < Sitri> Probably.  IMO your best option is to use a distribution's package building system
18:37 < Pentode> oh stop, you know what I mean. ;p
18:37 < Sitri> Then distribute the building process
18:37 < azarus> Pentode: i do; but i believe in miinimal systems and their usability ;)
18:37 < azarus> minimal*
18:37 < Pentode> so do i ;)
18:39 < Pentode> though i suppose i kind of violate that by using XFCE though even that is a minimal build. ;p
18:40 < azarus> eh, whatever floats your boat
18:40 < azarus> i'm a dwm guy
18:41 < Hugbox> I used i3 on arch.  Took some getting used to, but I really liked it after that
18:41 < Pentode> i've tried, but can't get into tiling window managers.
18:41 < azarus> also used i3, but dwm proved more suitable for me
18:41 < pfred1> Pentode lose weight you'll fit
18:42 < Pentode> if i lose any more weight i'll invert
18:42 < pfred1> Pentode see, I was right!
18:42 < Pentode> "whoops, crack in the floor!"
18:42 < azarus> if I need floating window manager (dunno why tough) i'd choose 2bwm
18:42 < Pentode> lol
18:42 < azarus> which is like dwm, but floating
18:42 < azarus> but then again, dwm does floating too
18:58 < HelloDare> You guys okay with a mail question? I'm looking for the correct syntax to alter the mailfrom DisplayName  so I can have my own custom string.  this is what I have now and It's still showing userA . http://codepad.org/JRVhbqb8
19:00 < HelloDare> Happy Canada Day.
19:03 < phogg> HelloDare: mail is always "from" you, unless you specify the header manually
19:03 < longxia> HelloDare: what if you put Dev Server between its own quotes?
19:04 < HelloDare> stand by
19:04 < longxia> HelloDare: like '"Dev Server" <etc>'
19:05 < HelloDare> ok
19:05 < HelloDare> stand by
19:05 < HelloDare> I'll test
19:05 < phogg> my mail(1) does not document a -r option.
19:05 < longxia> nor does mine :/
19:06 < longxia> but that's on macOS :X
19:06 < phogg> Debian Linux here.
19:06 < HelloDare> nope
19:06 < HelloDare> mine is on kali
19:06 < HelloDare> perhaps -r is doing nothing.
19:07 < WhiteDevil> Debian
19:07 < HelloDare> Until now I was using the default anyways
19:07 < HelloDare> yes
19:07 < HelloDare> Debian
19:07 < phogg> HelloDare: you could try: -x 'From: Dev Server<userA@example.com>' -- I don't know what -r is supposed to do.
19:07 < HelloDare> Thank you sir.
19:07 < phogg> er, I mean -a not -x
19:08 < HelloDare> mail: unrecognized option '-x'
19:08 < HelloDare> oh
19:08 < HelloDare> okay
19:09 < HelloDare> mail: Invalid header: Dev Server<userA@example.com>
19:09 < phogg> rmail(1) documents an -r that is an alias for -f, and -f can be used to set the address. Is your mail really rmail?
19:09 < HelloDare> no
19:09 < HelloDare> it's just mail
19:09 < HelloDare> I could use rmail if needed.
19:10 < HelloDare> let me put the -r back and add the r to the front of the command
19:10 < phogg> on Debian mail is an alternative
19:11 < HelloDare> rmail has a differnt syntax.
19:11 < HelloDare> I'll have to rewrite
19:11 < HelloDare> oh wait
19:11 < HelloDare> you used single quotes
19:11 < HelloDare> one second
19:12 < phogg> my mail is pointing at bsd-mailx at the moment.
19:12 < HelloDare> mail: Invalid header: Dev Server<userA@example.com>
19:12 < HelloDare> didn't like the single quotes either
19:13 < phogg> quoted don't matter
19:13 < phogg> or rather, it only matters that your string gets past the shell
19:13 < phogg> and is a valid address
19:14 < longxia> The quotes matter in the rfc2822 sense because there's a space in the display name
19:15 < phogg> HelloDare: readlink -f $(which mail) # what is your mail, really?
19:15 < HelloDare> I'll remove it and try again
19:15 < phogg> longxia: depends on how picky the MUA is. Some don't seem to care
19:15 < HelloDare> "/usr/bin/mail.mailutils"
19:15 < phogg> but yes, technically '"Dev Server" <user@example.com>' is more correct
19:15 < HelloDare> oh okay
19:16 < longxia> phogg: also depends on how savvy his mail client is
19:16  * phogg installs the mailutils package
19:16 < phogg> so at least I can read the right man page
19:17 < HelloDare> unexpected EOF while looking for matching `''
19:17 < phogg> HelloDare: -r is the return address, not the from address
19:17 < HelloDare> I have it set to -a now
19:17 < phogg> good, that is more likely to work
19:18 < HelloDare> -a "'Dev Server"<userA@example.com>'  didn't run, says unexpected EOF while looking for matching `''
19:18 < phogg> HelloDare: you typed it wrong
19:18 < HelloDare> -a, --append=HEADER: VALUE append given header to the message being sent
19:18 < longxia> HelloDare: do you have your quotes correct?
19:19 < phogg> '"Dev Server" <userA@example.com>' # note the order of single and double quotes
19:19 < HelloDare> -a=from:'"Dev Server" <userA@example.com>'
19:19 < phogg> HelloDare: that's not the documented syntax for -a
19:19 < HelloDare> when I man mail
19:20 < phogg> you either say -a '"Dev Server" <userA@example.com>'  or --append='"Dev Server" <userA@example.com>'
19:20 < HelloDare> that's what it says
19:20 < HelloDare> right, so like this..... -a=FROM:'"Dev Server" <userA@example.com>'
19:20 < phogg> No
19:20 < phogg> HelloDare: -a= is WRONG. Read what I said again.
19:20 < HelloDare> right, so like this..... --append=FROM:'"Dev Server" <userA@example.com>'
19:21 < phogg> Yes, more like that
19:21 < HelloDare> okay let me try that
19:21 < phogg> except I would do: --append='From: "Dev Server" <userA@example.com>' to be easier to read
19:22 < HelloDare> no error, awaiting delivery....
19:22 < HelloDare> AH HA!
19:22 < HelloDare> Worked
19:23 < HelloDare> --append=FROM:'"Dev Server" <userA@example.com>'
19:23 < phogg> HelloDare: see what happens when you read the man page?
19:24 < HelloDare> haha
19:24 < HelloDare> see
19:25 < HelloDare> I also learned that the keywork mail isn't the same across distros
19:25 < HelloDare> keyword
19:25 < phogg> HelloDare: It's not even the same on the same distro
19:26 < phogg> HelloDare: I am running Debian, but my mail alternative is set to bsd-mailx whereas you're using mail.mailutils
19:27 < phogg> I wish readlink had a mode where it would print each link name as it follows it.
19:28 < Sitri> readlink -vf?
19:28 < phogg> -v only turns on error reporting
19:32 < peetaur> phogg: strace -e lstat readlink -f dir4
19:32 < Sitri> $ strace readlink -vm a 2>&1 | grep ^readlink | cut -d '"' -f 2,4 | sed 's/"/ -> /g'
19:32 < Sitri> (Where a is the initial symlink)
19:34 < peetaur> A+ for formatting.... B+ overall
19:35 < Sitri> Ah, `strace -e lstat readlink -m a 2>&1 | grep ^lstat | cut -d \" -f 2` is a bit cleaner
19:35 < peetaur> I like the formatting better on the first, with the -> in there
19:35 < Sitri> Well "cleaner", more along the lines of what he asked for
19:37 < phogg> you can do that, but it's not so pleasant when you're trying to teach someone about symlink chains
19:37 < Sitri> Put it in a shell script?
19:38 < Sitri> The first example formats it in a way that makes learning not that bad
19:38 < Sitri> Though, my test had them all in the same directory, so `ls -l | fgrep -- '->'` would have worked just as well
19:39 < phogg> not a typical case
19:40 < Sitri> Obviously
19:40 < Sitri> But one that helps demo the concept since this was mentioned to be a teaching excercise
19:42 < Dan39> Sitri: grep for ->? eww
19:43 < Dan39> you know a file can have thos characters in its name...
19:44 < phogg> Dan39: not in his test scenario
19:45 < Dan39> maybe not, i didnt read anything else :P bad habit of mine
19:46 < Dan39> just FYI to anyone, you can use `test -L` to check if a file is a symlink :P
19:47 < phogg> Dan39: that's easy, printing the chain of links is not easy
19:48 < Pusteblume> weird. my "test" does nothing at all
19:48 < phogg> although the strace thing is cute it would be much easier to add an option to readlink to do it
19:48 < Dan39> and dont forget `find` has some symlink features
19:48 < Sitri> Pusteblume: check the exit code
19:48 < Sitri> echo $?
19:48 < Pusteblume> ah, i see
19:48  * Dan39 should really go read what they are trying to do though <_<
19:48 < phogg> Pusteblume: test should not ever print anything (it only will in the case of some kinds of error)
19:49 < Sitri> Dan39: print the trail of nested symlinks
19:49 < Dan39> `test` could still be useful for that, would just have to use a loop to continue printing if destination is a symlink, eh?
19:50 < phogg> using strace is one better than what I had been planning to do, which was to loop and stat and print repeatedly
19:51 < phogg> Dan39: theoretically, but I can get both "is it a symlink?" and the path out of stat in one call, whereas I can't with test.
19:51 < Sitri> The strace solutions require that strace is installed though
19:51 < Dan39> phogg: ah
19:52  * Dan39 goes to try strace, that sounds clever, though kind of silly
19:52 < phogg> interestingly with a non-C locale stat likes using curly quotes around symlinks.
19:52 < Sitri> And wouldn't work in certain special environments (such as cctools' parrotvm)
19:52 < peetaur> here's a bash function to do it  https://bpaste.net/show/eb3fa6c35621
19:53 < Sitri> Dan39: BTW, my test case was built with: touch e; ln -s d e; ln -s c d; ln -s b c; ln -s a b
19:53 < Dan39> heh, already did almost exactly that :P
19:53 < peetaur> phogg: the strace one requires parsing though... so escapes will break it
19:53 < Dan39> cept i started at d
19:53 < peetaur> so looping is fine (unless you also want to parse the output rather than handle it there)
19:53 < phogg> peetaur: not too important for my scenario.
19:54 < Dan39> readlink is really just doing that same thing you would be using a stat loop
19:54 < Dan39> by using*
19:54 < phogg> indeed; like I said at the beginning, it's too bad it doesn't have a switch that makes it print each time it follows a link
19:54 < Sitri> Would it be worth it to just write a really small C program to do it instead?
19:54 < dogbert_2> need to pick up a USB drive for burning debian onto it and I can build my new $100 linux box :)
19:54 < saderror256> o/
19:54 < Dan39> phogg: indeed. submit a patch!
19:54 < phogg> Sitri: there is one, it's called readlink. Adding to that makes more sense
19:55 < dogbert_2> not if you can write a script to do it
19:55 < phogg> Dan39: I was thinking about it. Just pulled the source to take a look
19:55 < saderror256> dogbert_2: if you have an sd card, you can actually install debian with unetbootin
19:55 < Dan39> a nice little tree view even
19:55 < saderror256> you can use an android phone and tar your files for backup
19:55 < saderror256> no matter how minimal you are, you can install a linux distribution
19:56 < dogbert_2> that's ok...need to get another USB flash drive anyways :)
19:56 < saderror256> put unetbootin debian on your root partiion (warning: overwrite will occur), also burn the debian iso to sd card
19:56 < dogbert_2> this is a older model HP (refurb job)...but will make a decent linux box...
19:57 < saderror256> in the install you will trick debian into thinking /dev/mmcblk0p1 (sdcard) is your cdrom and the installer gets storeed into ram so you can wipe your root partition safely
19:57 < saderror256> dogbert_2: as long as it isnt the new hp models you are fine, so thats great
19:58 < dogbert_2> LOL...not worth the hassle...need to go out in about an hour and pick up something from an amazon locker, so it's no biggie to stop in a wal-mart and pick up a USB flash drive (8-16GB should be fine)...
19:58 < saderror256> the newer hp models are known (well, any new computer) for refusing to boot from anything
19:58 < phogg> Dan39: perish the thought! A nice little line-delimited list, or null-delimited with another flag. Being machine processable is important.
19:58 < Dan39> heh
19:58 < saderror256> dogbert_2: worth the hassle for me :P managed to wipe my current os successfully and overplace debian with it :)
19:58 < saderror256> and i didnt have access to usbs or dvd, and my computer couldnt boot from sd cards
19:59 < peetaur> phogg: and also there's the namei command....which prints them all
19:59 < saderror256> are you putting stretch on it?
19:59 < Dan39> phogg: but readlink accepts multiple files, so if that's allowed you need delimiter between each chain also
19:59 < morfin> so i have this in sudoers: www-data ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD:/var/www/html/update_wpa_supplicant_config
20:00 < phogg> Dan39: yes
20:00 < dogbert_2> naww...this is a dual core celeron (2.93Ghz), 4GB ram, and replaced the 160GB HDD that it came with with a old spare 1TB drive :)
20:00 < morfin> still require password when i sudo /var/www/html/update_wpa_supplicant_config as www-data any clue why?
20:01 < Dan39> morfin: requirett?
20:01 < Dan39> y
20:01 < saderror256> as always i recommend you install debian WITHOUT the graphical interface, then after the install you can make your decisions. good ofor people that change their mind in the installer
20:01 < saderror256> and for kde in my case it reduced the bloat
20:01 < Dan39> morfin: also, put a space after NOPASSWD:
20:02 < saderror256> Dan39: my irc client thinks its a link
20:02 < Dan39> saderror256: huh?
20:02 < Dan39> oh
20:02 < dogbert_2> Debian 9.4
20:03 < saderror256> Dan39: the comment from morfin about sudoers file, starting at NOPASSWD:/ my irc client just thinks its a link, just bringing it up :P
20:03 < Dan39> eh
20:03 < Dan39> heh*
20:03 < saderror256> dogbert_2: cool, like said, you should go without a desktop environment, then install what you want after :) reduces bloat and lets you decide
20:04 < saderror256> thats what im using and its amazingly stable
20:04 < fscale> So I upgraded from Ubuntu 17.1 to 18.04 and I noticed that Ubuntu is using Xorg instead of Wayland with no option in login screen to use Wayland. I want my fractional scaling back, how do I switch back to wayland?
20:04 < saderror256> fscale: do you see an option to select your desktop environment on login?
20:04 < dogbert_2> LOL...well, with 1TB of space...shouldn't be an issue :)
20:04 < saderror256> usually its right next to login button in GDM
20:04 < Dan39> fscale: fractional scaling?
20:05 < Dan39> Xorg has display scaling...
20:05 < Dan39> not sure that's what you want
20:05 < saderror256> dogbert_2: sorry, your speaking to someone with 200 gb of space :P honestly space isnt very limited nowadays so anything is fine
20:05 < saderror256> you must love fractional scaling, fscale :P
20:06 < Pentode> i love the word fractional
20:06 < saderror256> i guess its a cool word
20:06 < saderror256> another cool word is spalonebabagoosegooties
20:06 < fscale> saderror256: I checked that before coming here. There is no option for that. Dan39: I spent 2 days searching for fractional scaling. It's only available in wayland & I need it. I need 125% scaling.
20:06 < saderror256> fscale: is wayland installed?
20:06 < Dan39> what is "fractional scaling"?
20:07 < Dan39> its not like, you want to do 2k on a 1080p monitor, is it?
20:07 < saderror256> Dan39: maybe he means oversscaling?
20:07 < saderror256> he said 125%?
20:07 < Dan39> so... lower resolution?
20:07 < ayecee> non-integer scaling
20:07 < fscale> 125% display scaling. I'm running 1080p in a 15 inch laptop. All UI looks small in regular scaling. Windows does this automatically.
20:08 < saderror256> well i came to this, you should always trust your search integer :P https://askubuntu.com/questions/1029436/enable-fractional-scaling-for-ubuntu-18-04
20:08 < saderror256> *engine, my minds getting boggled
20:08 < Dan39> ayecee: heh
20:08 < Dan39> xrandr --scale
20:08 < saderror256> wait
20:08 < saderror256> it looks like you need HiDPI?
20:08 < saderror256> is that the same thing almost?
20:09 < Dan39> but Wayland would probably do it better i bet
20:09 < saderror256> Dan39: wayland is too new imho
20:09 < saderror256> i believe they excluded wayland in the 18.04 release, but 18.10 should have it soon
20:09 < Dan39> saderror256: agreed
20:10 < fscale> saderror256: You can say that, although lot of nerds only consider 4k as HiDPI. The problem is if you're on a resolution high enough that you need to scale above 100% for the software to be usable, you also face all the HiDPI problems.
20:10 < saderror256> does anybody know why they dropped unity?
20:10 < saderror256> fscale: dumb answer, but gnome-tweak-tool can do this i think
20:10 < saderror256> check there
20:11 < saderror256> im supposing you use gnome?
20:11 < saderror256> if not, it should still work either way
20:11 < Dan39> fscale: try xrandr with --scale 0.8
20:11 < fscale> saderror256: Yes using Gnome.
20:11 < fscale> Dan39: Ok
20:12 < Dan39> have to run `xrandr` first to get output name, then do like `xrandr --output eDP-1 --scale 0.8`
20:12 < Dan39> see how it looks, can always set it back to 1 :P
20:13 < Dan39> i know what you want, i recall there being another way of doing it also
20:13 < fscale> How to find the display name? eDP not found
20:13 < Dan39> fscale: just run `xrandr`
20:13 < Dan39> itll show you the output names
20:13 < Dan39> like "HDMI-0 connected" or "DVI-D-0" connected
20:14 < Dan39> err it says 0.8 isnt valid scaling factor
20:14 < Dan39> hold on :P
20:15 < Dan39> oh
20:15 < fscale> This did work
20:15 < fscale> xrandr --output Virtual1 --scale 0.8x0.8
20:15 < Dan39> 0.8x0.8
20:15 < Dan39> right
20:15 < Dan39> just tried that on mine
20:15 < HelloDare> mail -A "/root/files/file1.txt" -A "/root/files/file2.txt" equals rootfilesfile1.txt and rootfilesfile2.txt as the attached files to the emails.....any idea why, and how to fix?
20:15 < Dan39> doesn't look that crisp, but it works haha
20:16 < Dan39> i always used it the other way around, to fit higher resolution on low resolution
20:16 < fscale> Dan39: You're right, I have a feeling the text looks crisper when I scaled it with wayland installed to 125%. Especially the terminal text.
20:16 < Dan39> fscale: a different scale value might look better
20:16 < Dan39> something that lands pixels on an even number scaled or whatnot
20:17 < Dan39> would 125% be .75? i dunno
20:18 < Dan39> you could be more exact with --scale-from wxh
20:18 < Dan39> which i think takes pixel size of resulting framebuffer
20:18 < Dan39> ill try :D
20:18 < fscale> This xrandr seems to be having the same effect as lowering the resolution.
20:19 < Dan39> heh
20:19 < Dan39> i think so
20:19 < Dan39> thats why i only really used it to increase resolution beyond what monitor supported :P
20:19 < Dan39> to go the other way id just lower the resolution
20:19 < Dan39> you want your like, font sizes to scale...
20:19 < fscale> Nice, but now I want to get wayland back . I hope it's not impossible.
20:20 < fscale> It's scaling is better, atleast keeps text crisp
20:20 < Dan39> i had a feeling this would be the case :P
20:24 < Dan39> looks like it was VERY close to happening with xrandr
20:24 < Dan39> crisp scaling that is
20:24 < Dan39> https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=159064 https://patchwork.freedesktop.org/patch/79564/
20:26 < Dan39> yea, hasn't been merged into main xrandr yet
20:27 < fscale> Dan39: Does that trick work or not? You tested?
20:28 < Dan39> in the links? no that needs source patched
20:28 < Dan39> too much effort when i dont need it :p though yea it would only take a couple minutes
20:28 < Dan39> i'm kind of tempted to try it now haha
20:31 < morfin> hmmm
20:32 < Dan39> i'm going to try the big patch on freedeskop.org
20:34  * Dan39 misses the old ABS system
20:35 < fscale> Dan39: Maybe don't, I have to reboot to test some tweaks which also means I have to leave from here.
20:35 < ice9> is it possible to measure the time taken to start services on boot? (systemd)
20:36 < Dan39> it's fine, im curious myself now :P
20:36 < Dan39> ice9: systemd-analyze
20:37 < ice9> Dan39, i mean the time taken by each service
20:37 < Dan39> ice9: yea
20:37 < Sitri> Dan39: don't like how aps spams the current directory?
20:37 < Dan39> ice9: look at the help
20:38 < Dan39> ice9: try `systemd-analyze blame` or critical-chain, or the best one is plot. `systemd-analyze plot >theplot.svg; firefox theplot.svg`
20:38 < Dan39> the plot is pretty cool
20:38 < notmike> Dan39: in the morning cryptopuss and I just lay around and bathe each other with our tongues
20:39 < Dan39> -_-
20:39 < Dan39> anyways...
20:39 < notmike> 😽
20:40 < Dan39> systemd-analyze plot looked much better when i ran it on a system with an HDD. since getting an nvme ssd, everything happens so fast there isn't much to see
20:41 < ice9> Dan39, how to properly view the output of plot?
20:41 < Dan39> ice9: you didnt follow my example, did you? -_-
20:41 < ice9> ahh sorry
20:41 < Dan39> ice9: redirect it to a file, then open that file with firefox
20:42 < Dan39> or something else that can view SVG
20:42 < Dan39> i know firefox works...
20:45 < mawk> 😽
20:45 < Dan39> ice9: ...? working?
20:45 < Dan39> 😽😽😽😽😽😽😽😽😽
20:45 < ice9> yes Dan39 thank you
20:48 < Dan39> ice9: 😽😽
20:52 < Dan39> ok, patched and installed :D
20:52 < ran8> yo was told to join
20:52 < Dan39> lets see if this works
20:53 < Dan39> yo was told to answer
20:54 < Dan39> well, it did something, but nearest looks worse than bilnear
20:54 < Dan39> bilinear
20:56 < Dan39> though i kind of expected that. nearest shows you the pixels as is, scaled. bilinear kinda blurs it a bit to make it look smoother
20:59 < Dan39> well time to reinstall back to the repo package
20:59 < Dan39>    ,
21:24 < seven-eleven> hi, "tx" in `vnstat` means what I downloaded or uploaded?
21:26 < MrElendig> tx is transfer
21:26 < Dan39> seven-eleven: uploaded, t as in transmit, and r is receive
21:26 < seven-eleven> wow, vnstat says i'd have uploaded 2TB last month, that's weird
21:26 < pingfloyd> Dan39: take your pick.  Blurry or blocky.
21:27 < pingfloyd> i.e., turd or polished turd
21:27 < Dan39> yea, i dont thinkg display scaling is the best solution
21:27 < pingfloyd> what I hate is viewers that force that crap on you
21:28 < Dan39> this had some better solution too - https://askubuntu.com/questions/393400/is-it-possible-to-have-two-different-dpi-configurations-for-two-different-screen
21:28 < Dan39> not sure if it's better tbh
21:29 < Dan39> looks about the same, using xrandr scaling
21:30 < Dan39> kinda old too
21:30 < pingfloyd> I doubt it's better
21:31 < pingfloyd> I can see regulars of askubuntu thinking it is though
21:31 < Dan39> heh
21:32 < Dan39> text scaling is what would be better, but dont know how that would work per-monitor
21:32 < seven-eleven> ehm, i got 8GB RAM, but I think I should create a SWAP nevertheless, because once I open like 10 chromium tabs and 3 VMs my system crashes, looks like memory issue
21:33 < pingfloyd> lol, some of those people in that post are oblivious to the concept of native resolution
21:33 < Dan39> seven-eleven: system should completely crash
21:33 < pingfloyd> wondering why it "got blurry" when they used a non-native resolution on an LED monitor
21:34 < Dan39> right
21:34 < pingfloyd> seven-eleven: you need more ram
21:34 < pingfloyd> seven-eleven: swap isn't for performing miracles
21:34 < seven-eleven> Dan39, it crashes completely. chromium uses so much RAM, I get that VMs use much RAM but chromium meh, it creates like a virtual instance for each tab
21:35 < Dan39> seven-eleven: :|
21:35 < pingfloyd> how do you expect run 3 VMs + chromium with 8 GiB ram
21:35 < Dan39> seven-eleven: swap isn't going to help much
21:35 < pingfloyd> the swap will keep you from crashing though, but the performance is likely still going to be shit
21:35 < seven-eleven> hm yeah, I think i add swap to prevent crashes and when I see things get slow I can pause VMs
21:36 < pingfloyd> install more ram
21:36 < Dan39> you should have some swap, sure, but it isn't going to be amazing
21:36 < pingfloyd> that's the only real fix for your dilemma
21:36 < seven-eleven> pingfloyd, i think RAM is still expensive :D
21:36 < pingfloyd> then don't run so many VMs
21:37 < seven-eleven> just running those 3 VMs for test purposes, not running them always, so going to bridgeover with swap meanwhile
21:37 < pingfloyd> seven-eleven: but why do you have swap disabled to begin with?
21:37 < seven-eleven> yeah disabled, now going to create a new swap file with swapon
21:37 < pingfloyd> that's a terrible idea regardless
21:41 < seven-eleven> ahh my SSD has no space anymore too lol, and creating the swap on a HDD i don't know :-)
21:42 < Ben64> swap isn't going to stop things from breaking
21:42 < pfred1> I always make a swap space
21:43 < pingfloyd> seven-eleven: sounds like you also have inadequate storage in addition to inadequate ram for what you want to do.
21:44 < pingfloyd> maybe kill off one of the VMs
21:44 < pingfloyd> what do you need so many VMs for anyway?
21:44 < pfred1> it gets ugly when Linux runs out of memory
21:44 < pingfloyd> it gets ugly whenever anything runs out of memory
21:44 < pfred1> if you say so all I ever run is Linux
21:45 < pingfloyd> if anything, linux seems to handle the impossible situation rather well considering
21:46 < seven-eleven> pingfloyd, testing backup scenarios with them, i think i will try to find some files to delete, need those vms
21:46 < pfred1> Tux just sits there and says why come no RAM?
21:46 < pingfloyd> linux invokes oom killer
21:47 < pingfloyd> others just start crashing processes
21:49 < Elladan> 8 GB is plenty of RAM for light Chromium use.
21:49 < Elladan> You just need swap.
21:49 < jcarder_> what file system should I use for a USB drive for storing backups? currently it has vfat but this is not ideal
21:49 < pingfloyd> Elladan: he's not just running chromium
21:49 < pingfloyd> Elladan: 8GB is rarely enough to run 3 VMs simultaneously
21:49 < Elladan> Oh, 3 VMs too? Depends on how much memory is allocated.
21:50 < searedvandal> jcarder_, depends. are you only gonna need access from Linux? Or does the drive also need to be accessed from Windows?
21:50 < Elladan> But if you went with the typical 2 G per VM or whatever yeah, swap will fix the crashes but you'll be sad.
21:50 < Elladan> 1 G per VM, it should be fine.
21:50 < pingfloyd> swap should be on regardless
21:50 < pingfloyd> so start there
21:51 < jcarder_> searedvandal: only from linux
21:51 < Elladan> Yeah, there's never a reason to not have swap with a desktop install.
21:51 < rud0lf> for unix sockets, the access go same as for files?
21:51 < pingfloyd> having no swap is like trying to crap the entire house into one room
21:51 < Elladan> Not having swap is really only appropriate for embedded stuff.
21:51 < pingfloyd> *cram
21:51 < searedvandal> jcarder_, then choose whatever FS you want really. I have one usb drive with ext4, another with ntfs, a couple of vfats. it all depends on need
21:52 < pingfloyd> Elladan: it's never appropriate
21:52 < rud0lf> for example /home/me/the600mod_file will be restricted for me?
21:52 < pingfloyd> if you're using a linux kernel
21:52 < Elladan> pingfloyd, it's appropriate for embedded use where there is no storage device with a lot of write durability. That's all.
21:52 < searedvandal> disk space is cheap, we can all afford some swap
21:53 < pingfloyd> Elladan: I'd say in that case, it's a necessary evil
21:53 < pingfloyd> i.e., you don't have much choice
21:53 < jcarder_> searedvandal: the only problem I have with vfat is that it doesn't support colons in file names and that it requires superuser priviliges when modifying whats on the drive
21:54 < Elladan> pingfloyd, eh, there's lots of cases with embedded where swap would be pointless.
21:54 < pingfloyd> Elladan: embedded is also very targeted
21:54 < pingfloyd> do you install a general purpose dist on an embedded device?
21:54 < Elladan> What does that matter? It's still Linux.
21:55 < Elladan> The point is that you always want swap with a general purpose device. Specialty devices may have no use for it.
21:55 < searedvandal> jcarder_, vfat doesn't have file permissions, so permissions are controlled by how you mount it
21:55 < pingfloyd> what does embedded devices matter to seven-eleven's issue?
21:56 < Elladan> They don't. Use swap.
21:56 < jcarder_> searedvandal: oh okay
21:56 < seven-eleven> Elladan, yeeeah I should reduce to 1gb per VM
21:56 < seven-eleven> now its about 2GB iirc
21:57 < jcarder_> searedvandal: I've heard ZFS is good for backups as it has data validating, what do you think?
21:57 < searedvandal> jcarder_, I use udisks2 for mounting removable usb drives, and I've never had issues changing files on a vfat drive.
21:58 < Elladan> seven-eleven, swap should be your #1 priority.
21:59 < searedvandal> jcarder_, ZFS on a usb drive? it's probably doable, but I have no experience with zfs so can't answer if it's a good idea or not
22:00 < jcarder_> searedvandal: ok, do you know any FS that support colons and file permissions?
22:00 < jcarder_> thats all I'm really looking for
22:00 < searedvandal> ext4?
22:01 < sauvin> colons?
22:01 < jcarder_> is ext4 good on usb drives?
22:01 < Elladan> It works fine.
22:02 < searedvandal> mine still work, so yeah, shouldn't be a problem
22:02 < Elladan> F2FS might be better, maybe. ext4 is probably the most stable.
22:02 < sauvin> If the USB drives are spinners, I've been using ext{2,3} and xfs on them for years with no issue. Can't talk about nonspinner drives personally.
22:02 < sauvin> What's this about "supporting colons"?
22:02 < searedvandal> sauvin, like 'file:name.txt' probably
22:03 < searedvandal> that's my guess, and that works just fine on ext4
22:03 < Elladan> All filesystems will work on USB drives, the question is mostly just whether you need them to work with some other OS and how unhappy they are when the USB drive corrupts data.
22:03 < sauvin> If that's so, then... um... on ext4, why not, but also, whatever for?
22:03 < pingfloyd> ext4 isn't nearly as constraining on file names as vfat
22:03 < Elladan> All unix filesystems (pretty much) support colons in the filename.
22:03 < pingfloyd> ext4, pretty much any character is allowed in the file name except "/"
22:03 < Elladan> The only reserved characters are '/' and NUL.
22:03 < pingfloyd> (for obvious reason)
22:03 < jcarder_> yeah only reason I need colons is becuase my backups have names like "backup-18-6-30-10:31:32.tar.gz"
22:04 < sauvin> Oh, wait... doesn't OS X use colons for path element separators?
22:04 < sauvin> jcarder_, I don't think that kind of filename would be a problem with any *nix FS I run.
22:05 < Elladan> You may be unhappy if you store files with invalid utf8 unicode sequences, but the filesystem will support it. : is perfectly fine.
22:05 < pingfloyd> jcarder_: why not use a sane naming convention like "backup-$(date "+%y%m%dT%H%M%S")"?
22:05 < searedvandal> also, your backup script/program probably have an option to change that
22:05 < jcarder_> pingfloyd: searedvandal: yeah maybe I'll use that instead haha
22:06 < searedvandal> much easier to read, and looks way prettier
22:06 < Elladan> jcarder_, I wouldn't recommend using vfat for critical data in Linux, BTW. Besides being a bad filesystem in general, the fsck tools won't be so great.
22:06 < Elladan> It's more for interop with Windows/Mac.
22:06 < pingfloyd> jcarder_: output ends up like "backup-180701T130614"
22:06 < jcarder_> Elladan: ok
22:06 < Elladan> Use one of the first-tier sort of Linux filesystems like ext4 or xfs.
22:06 < jcarder_> pingfloyd: readability is important
22:07 < jcarder_> I'll use something other than a colon though
22:07 < pingfloyd> you can't make sense out of yymmddThhmmss?
22:07 < MrElendig> iso8601 yo
22:07 < pingfloyd> as a side benefit, it sorts naturally
22:07 < searedvandal> backup-20180701_140002.tar.gz is how I name mine
22:07 < jcarder_> pingfloyd: no I can, but it's faster if there is some sort of character between them
22:07 < MrElendig> bonus point: use a incremental log based backup
22:08 < jcarder_> MrElendig: wdym?
22:08 < pingfloyd> you could substitute "T" for say "-" or whatever you want
22:08 < jcarder_> thats true
22:09 < pingfloyd> I usually use "-" as category delimiters and "_" where spaces would be used.
22:10 < pingfloyd> so a vm image, for example,  would be named like "kvm-windows_10"
22:10 < jcarder_> I use hypens as spaces in my file names
22:10  * MrElendig will happily use spaces
22:11 < pingfloyd> jcarder_: I used to, but visually underscore is more intuitive at a glance.
22:11 < searedvandal> my media files have a lot of spaces.
22:12 < pingfloyd> spaces are fine, you just need to make sure you're quoting shell expansions, but you should be doing that anyway.
22:12 < jcarder_> pingfloyd: I just don't like how underscores look in files names
22:12 < Elladan> I don't see anything wrong with using colons in a file name. It's not a reserved character.
22:12 < pingfloyd> because it's pretty sad when a space in a filename causes a script to have unexpected results
22:12 < Elladan> Certainly better than spaces.
22:12 < Ben64> don't need swap if you have plenty of ram
22:12 < pingfloyd> Ben64: even then you should still have swap enabled
22:12 < Ben64> why
22:13 < searedvandal> don't need ram if you have plenty of swap
22:13 < jcarder_> lol
22:13 < Elladan> Your system can make more efficient use of RAM with swap enabled.
22:13 < Elladan> In addition to not crashing.
22:13 < Ben64> how would it be more efficient
22:13 < Hasimir> Ben64, capturing core dumps for a start ...
22:13 < Elladan> Some pieces of your programs are never used. With swap, they can be paged out.
22:14 < Elladan> The RAM can then be repurposed as file cache.
22:14 < Ben64> but what if i have enough ram
22:14 < post-factum> Ben64: https://chrisdown.name/2018/01/02/in-defence-of-swap.html
22:14 < Ben64> there'd be no point in it
22:14 < Hasimir> there's no such thing
22:14 < Elladan> You never have enough, you can always have more cache.
22:14 < post-factum> we should finally put this link ^^ into the /topic
22:14 < pingfloyd> Ben64: because having pages, that are only ever accessed once or extremely seldom, stuck in ram is a waste.
22:14 < Ben64> but i have plenty of ram
22:15 < pingfloyd> post-factum: no doubt
22:15 < Elladan> Do you have more ram than you have disk? No? Then you will benefit from an efficient caching policy.
22:15 < pingfloyd> and this https://www.kernel.org/doc/gorman/html/understand/understand014.html
22:16 < Hasimir> Elladan, even on systems with more RAM than disk, you still can't have too much RAM
22:16 < pingfloyd> Ben64: do whatever you want, even if it is wrong and inefficient.
22:16 < Ben64> i don't think creating swap to maybe save a couple hundred megabytes for cache is efficient
22:16 < pingfloyd> but now you know what you should do
22:17 < Ben64> Mem:            total:31G         used:10G        free:720M        shared:1.1G         buff/cache:20G         available:19G
22:18 < pingfloyd> neither is having more ram than you know what to do with
22:18 < searedvandal> just don't let your machine hibernate without swap
22:19 < Ben64> i don't hibernate
22:30 < haled> Is there a parallel archiver that can also password protect?
22:31 < MrElendig> lots
22:32 < blackgatonegro> Yes but is better to just encrypt the files.
22:32 < haled> blackgatonegro: I want to also pack them together
22:33 < blackgatonegro> haled, in parts or a single file?
22:33 < haled> blackgatonegro: single file
22:34 < blackgatonegro> Mmm, any 7z would do, gui or terminal?
22:35 < haled> terminal. I'm trying to optimize compression time over compression ratio though
22:35 < haled> 7z is lzma which is cpu intensive, no?
22:36 < pingfloyd> password protected archives are pretty useless
22:36 < blackgatonegro> so you want speed, password protection and safety? Pick one.
22:37 < pingfloyd> sounds like a unicorn
22:37 < haled> why safety?
22:37 < haled> what do you mean by safety?
22:38 < blackgatonegro> why else would you want a password?
22:38 < pingfloyd> why don't you just encrypt the file and then compress with a decent util
22:39 < blackgatonegro> yeah, that would be the best.
22:39 < haled> pingfloyd: would take longer
22:39 < jnewt> tried in ubuntu, maybe better in here.  updated from 16.04 to 18.04 and now my computer won't boot due to a kernel panic.  i can choose the older kernel 4.4 instead of 4.15 and it boots
22:40 < jnewt> i've tried nomodeset and removing quiet splash in grub just to be able to see the kernel panic.
22:40 < pingfloyd> haled: at least it would be reliable instead of a placebo of being a password protected archive
22:40 < blackgatonegro> jnewt, upgrade to a newer kernel
22:41 < haled> pingfloyd: why would there by no password protected archive?
22:41 < jnewt> blackgatonegro, that's what got me in this mess.  you're suggesting i go newer than 4.15?
22:41 < blackgatonegro> 4.15 is buggy as hell.
22:42 < pingfloyd> haled: that's not what I said
22:42 < pingfloyd> haled: the point is that password protected archives are useless for security
22:42 < haled> why?
22:42 < pingfloyd> but feel free to be like every other fool that makes a password protected zip
22:43 < blackgatonegro> to start with  most passwords are easy to guess
22:43 < blackgatonegro> then they are too short.
22:43 < haled> it won't be an easy to guess password
22:44 < blackgatonegro> and I could kee going but whatever.
22:44 < searedvandal> jnewt, or go lts, I believe 4.14.52 is the latest lts kernel
22:45 < jnewt> searedvandal, i am lts, it's 4.15.?  i know bc i just tried the upgrade from 16.04 to 18.04 (lts)
22:46 < pfred1> uname -a tells you what kernel you're running ls /boot tells you what's installed
22:46 < jnewt> 4.15.0-23-generic
22:47 < jnewt> that's the new one that fails
22:47 < jnewt> 4.4.0-127-generic is what i'm running
22:47 < blackgatonegro> just delete it and use an older one?
22:48 < pfred1> it is often nice to know why some things don't work
22:49 < jnewt> can you re-install a kernel (maybe something went wrong?  are there any settings for the kernel (like the boot=? whatever that my kernel panic is talking about)?
22:50 < jnewt> can > is it worth trying
22:50 < blackgatonegro> Ehem *4.15.0-20 has a serious bug in it, and should not be installed by anyone*
22:50 < pfred1> it is entirely possible to install Linux kernels
22:51 < blackgatonegro> So remove it
22:51 < pfred1> as many as you like
22:51 < pfred1> you can even go over to kernel.org and get new ones
22:51 < pfred1> it is not unheard of to do
22:52 < searedvandal> jnewt, check launchpad for bug reports on the 4.15 kernel. looks like a few have reported kernel panic in different scenarios
22:52 < pfred1> yeah you're probably just missing something the kernel needs to boot
22:52 < blackgatonegro> Linux mint official support: Dont install that thing!
22:52 < jnewt> searedvandal, i've seen them, and some are related to xeon, which is what i have, so maybe i'll try 4.17, it's the latest in the ubuntu mainline
22:53 < pfred1> filesystem support is a popular thing to be missing
22:53 < blackgatonegro> 4.15 is buggy
22:53 < jnewt> whytf would they release this on lts, we choose lts so we don't have to deal with this sort of nonsense
22:54 < pfred1> it is unfortunate
22:54 < blackgatonegro> eh
22:54 < blackgatonegro> it happens.
22:54 < pfred1> that's why it is always a good idea to keep a known good kernel on your system at all times
22:55 < blackgatonegro> I remenber having to switch keyboards after a kernel update
22:55 < Dr_Coke> really
22:55 < jnewt> so there's 7 files for 4.17 mainline for amd46.  i assume i need one of the headers, one of the image-unsigned and one of the modules.   i guess i can use generic instead of lowlatency
22:55 < searedvandal> what messes with my head now is that ubuntu lts doesn't use the latest long term kernel
22:55 < blackgatonegro> because for the new kernel my then current keyboard did not exist.
22:55 < Dr_Coke> oh
22:56 < pfred1> everyone should just build their own custom Linux kernel anyways
22:56 < jnewt> no
22:56 < Dr_Coke> I did once a upon a time
22:57 < Dr_Coke> but that was like 19 years ago
22:57 < jim> searedvandal, I guess you could ask them why on #ubuntu?
22:57 < pfred1> I've compiled loads of kernels but I didn't for this system I did a targetted install
22:57 < searedvandal> jim, yeah, I guess
22:57 < Dr_Coke> pfred1 I thought when you install the system
22:58 < Dr_Coke> it compiles the kernel for you
22:58 < pfred1> I'll still get around to configuring and compiling one someday though
22:58 < pfred1> nah
22:58 < Dr_Coke> and unless something doesn't work you don't need to recompile
22:58 < jnewt> do i need the headers with the ALL at the end or just the amd64 one?
22:58 < pfred1> canned kernels are prebuilt
22:58 < pfred1> the most it'll do is make yo uan initrd
22:58 < Dr_Coke> oh
22:58 < gambl0re> how do i search for a folder?
22:58 < pfred1> locate or find
22:58 < Dr_Coke> what is a uan initrd
22:58 < pfred1> make you an initrd
22:59 < Dr_Coke> right
22:59 < Dr_Coke> I'm actually not sure what an initrd is
22:59 < Dr_Coke> as well
22:59 < pfred1> it is a RAM inage the kernel loads
22:59 < pfred1> has driver modules in it
22:59 < Dr_Coke> a ram image?
22:59 < Dr_Coke> oh
22:59 < pfred1> you can pick them apart and see what's in them
22:59 < pfred1> I htink it's a cpio archive?
22:59 < Dr_Coke> Why does the system need a ram image
22:59 < jim> gambl0re, one way is find... find has a learning curve that's a bit rough'
23:00 < jnewt> gambl0re, you can use -type d
23:00 < pfred1> I've done it
23:00 < WhileTrue> hello, how do outputs that are written to /dev get deleted? is it in that sense a "trash" folder that immediately deletes?
23:00 < pfred1> because you may not have every driver you need compiled into your kernel
23:00 < Dr_Coke> Oh right
23:00 < gambl0re> i want to search a folder called openshot_qt
23:00 < pfred1> some drivers just seem to work better as loadable modules too
23:01 < gambl0re> how would i do that in the terminal
23:01 < Dr_Coke> so a module just loads into ram?
23:01 < pfred1> locate openshot_qt
23:01 < jim> WhileTrue, could you say a bit more?
23:01 < Dr_Coke> and a module is a driver basically?
23:01 < Dr_Coke> that wasn't compiled into your kernel
23:01 < Dr_Coke> ?
23:02 < gambl0re> pfred1, what do you mean?
23:02 < jim> Dr_Coke, it doesn't have to be... iptables code that matches certain targets are modules too
23:02 < pfred1> gambl0re what do you mean what do you mean?
23:02 < pfred1> locate is a command
23:03 < Yamakaja> So, is there any tool that i've missed that allows me to start and process as a daemon? Similar to what this does? https://gist.github.com/Yamakaja/afdd7dc8ce9cad22ff980e1988a16834
23:03 < Dr_Coke> jim oh really
23:03 < Yamakaja> And is there anything wrong with the the above ^^?
23:03 < pfred1> gambl0re it is part of the mlocate package
23:03 < WhileTrue> jim, if I run a command with ">/dev/output.txt" at the end of it, it gets written to /dev, but no file can be found in the said folder. what kind of deletion is it? i.e. is it akin to "shift+delete"?
23:03 < gambl0re> i see. so 'locate openshot_qt' ?
23:04 < jim> Dr_Coke, yeah, some modules are drivers, some aren't
23:04 < gambl0re> i did that command and returned nothing
23:04 < pfred1> gambl0re if it doesn't work run updatedb as root to update your database
23:04 < WhileTrue> jim, sorry, I meant /dev/null
23:04 < pfred1> locate is faster and easier to use than find is generally
23:05 < day> any reason why a OS migration via 'dd if=source_drive of=target_drive' wouldnt work? in my case the target drive is bigger but that shouldnt matter right?
23:05 < jim> WhileTrue, /dev is special, you shouldn't be writing files in there
23:05 < MrElendig> day: fstab not using uuid
23:05 < gambl0re> database? what does this have to do with databases?
23:05 < MrElendig> day: bootloader not using uuid
23:05 < pfred1> day disks are more than just data
23:06 < MrElendig> day: different drivers for accessing the drives
23:06 < Dr_Coke> Is Systemd still evil?
23:06 < pfred1> they are data sectors and tracks
23:06 < pfred1> dd copies all of it too
23:06 < Dr_Coke> pfred1 what does systemd do man
23:06 < WhileTrue> jim, sure, but I am curious how /dev/null equals immediate deletion as process
23:06 < pfred1> Dr_Coke too much in my opinion
23:07 < Dr_Coke> pfred1 tell me more
23:07 < searedvandal> WhileTrue, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Null_device
23:08 < jnewt> blackgatonegro: thanks for sending me down the kernel path.  just tried 4.17 and it booted right up.  i would have been trying to get 4.15 to work for who knows how long.  didn't realize how easy it is to install a new one.
23:08 < pfred1> jnewt Linux is all about the kernels
23:09 < pfred1> I need to install a low latency kernel
23:09 < Dr_Coke> jnewt what distro are you on?
23:09 < jnewt> Dr_Coke, ubuntu (lts)
23:09 < Dr_Coke> what number
23:09 < searedvandal> 18.04
23:09 < jnewt> 18.04
23:09 < Dr_Coke> what desktop are you using?
23:09 < pfred1> jnewt someday you should take the time to configure and build a Linux kernel
23:10 < pfred1> jnewt just don't overwrite your good kernel in the process
23:10 < Dr_Coke> pfred1  what cpu do you have and gpu
23:10 < searedvandal> that's something everyone should do once
23:10 < jim> gambl0re, locate and updatedb are both part of the locate toolset... updatedb builds a file from looking at all files on the system, and it uses our old friend "find" to do it... then later, locate uses that file to search for files for you
23:10 < pfred1> jnewt because the first custom kernel you build is not always a charm
23:10 < Dr_Coke> and how much ram etc
23:10 < jnewt> Dr_Coke, was running cinnamon until the update to 18.04 which also broke that.  now apparently i have to use mate until i can figure out why that got botched along with the kernel
23:11 < Dr_Coke> jnewt damn man
23:11 < pfred1> Dr_Coke I have an i5 CPU and a gtx750ti gpu
23:11 < Dr_Coke> I use Cinnamon to
23:11 < WhileTrue> searedvandal, that link doesnt say anything about my question
23:11 < Dr_Coke> But I'm using mint 18
23:11 < Dr_Coke> I wonder if Mint 19 came out on the weekend
23:11 < Abbott> I found a 4TB hard drive in a closet at my parents house and can't figure out what's on it. `lsblk` says it has four partitions, but if I do `sudo fdisk /dev/sda` it tells me it doesn't have a recognized partition table and `p` returns nothing
23:11 < pfred1> Dr_Coke lscpu says Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4670 CPU @ 3.40GHz
23:12 < gambl0re> jim, i found it thanks
23:12 < Abbott> the other weird thing is that the largest partition on it (sda3) is only 1.7TB) and the others are a couple MB
23:12 < pfred1> I can never remember that
23:12 < Dr_Coke> pfred1 does your i5 still fly under linux
23:12 < pfred1> it's OK
23:12 < Dr_Coke> I have an i7 4790k
23:12 < jnewt> Dr_Coke: it was my first update, i had never stuck with linux long enough to want to do an upgrade.   i upgrade windows and freebsd regularly without issue.  hopefully my future linux upgrades won't be this bad.
23:12 < Dr_Coke> and a gtx 980
23:12 < jim> WhileTrue, /dev/ things generally contain special files that refer to code that does certain things depending on what it is... /dev/null's code "swallows" characters but never gets fat
23:12 < Abbott> 256K, 128M, 1.7T, 20K specifically
23:12 < pfred1> someday when i7s for this motherboard come down to cheap enough I'll get one
23:13 < pfred1> $2.95 and two box tops seems liek a good price to me
23:13 < Dr_Coke> jnewt you use freebsd?
23:13 < Dr_Coke> lol
23:13 < jnewt> Dr_Coke, since forever.  my server at home and my two at work are freebsd.
23:13 < searedvandal> WhileTrue, /dev/null is a device file that diregards all data written to it. it's a pseudo-device, aka it doesn't correspond to a physical device. it's only purpose is to provide a function that " accepts and discards all input; produces no output (always returns an end-of-file indication on a read)"
23:13 < Dr_Coke> jnewt what version of windows do you have
23:14 < Dr_Coke> pfred1 how much ram you got?
23:14 < pfred1> Dr_Coke 8GB
23:14 < Dr_Coke> I have 32gb
23:14 < triceratux> Dr_Coke: yep it came out last week. been runing it a few days. its pretty solid https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/06/linux-mint-19-released-available-to-download-now
23:14 < pfred1> but i still have 2 open slots to upgrade if I ever feel the need
23:14 < Dr_Coke> triceratux nice man
23:14 < Dr_Coke> pfred1 I'm maxed out
23:14 < triceratux> mint are finally categorically out of both the kde & gnome businesses
23:14 < pfred1> this board can take a max of 32GB
23:14 < jnewt> 7 on my desktop, 10 and 8.1 on my two laptops. trying to get away totally, but it's nearly impossible with some specialized software
23:14 < Dr_Coke> same as mine
23:15 < jim> and mine
23:15 < pfred1> yeah I think it was a common limit for its era
23:15 < Dr_Coke> pfred1 I run a version of bsd to
23:15 < pfred1> I only know that because I was reading the motherboard manual the other day
23:16 < pfred1> I'm fixing to put a new sound system on this PC soon
23:16 < pfred1> as soon as the cable for it arrives
23:30 < Dr_Coke> triceratux I'm downloading it now
23:32 < triceratux> Dr_Coke: i put in the xfce version. pretty close to perfect. i cant keep running it. i get bored unless my linux is literally crumbling before my eyes
23:33  * triceratux has to run tumbleweed or lubuntu 18.10 lxqt or swagarch or he dozes off
23:36 < Dr_Coke> lol
23:37 < Dr_Coke> I gave up on xfce triceratux
23:37 < Dr_Coke> They have had a long time and still haven't finished their port to gtk 3
23:37 < searedvandal> xfce <3
23:37 < Dr_Coke> or maybe they have now
23:37 < searedvandal> who needs gtk3
23:37 < triceratux> Dr_Coke: youll be in fine hands with cinnamon & mate
23:38 < Dr_Coke> But I went back to cinnamon
23:38 < searedvandal> thunar is gtk3 I think
23:38 < Dr_Coke> triceratux is mate fully 64 bit yet
23:38 < Dr_Coke> I mean
23:38 < Dr_Coke> fully supportive of graphics cards
23:38 < Dr_Coke> wait
23:39 < Dr_Coke> there was a problem with mate where it was missing something for games or something
23:39 < Dr_Coke> full 3d or something
23:39 < Dr_Coke> accerlation
23:39 < Dr_Coke> acceleration
23:40 < triceratux> Dr_Coke: cant say. if i go anywhere from xfce itll be lxqt
23:40 < searedvandal> lxqt is pretty nice
23:41 < pfred1> I like the Window Manager that I use
23:41 < searedvandal> which is?
23:41 < pfred1> Window maker
23:42 < pfred1> it starts up real fast
23:43 < pfred1> I just restarted it
23:43  * dogbert_2 uses Rufus-3.1 to make Debian-9.4 DVD-1 ISO into a bootable USB :P
23:43 < searedvandal> nice. have it changed much since 2001? think 01 was last time I tried window maker
23:43 < pfred1> it looks the same to me
23:44 < pfred1> if anything finding themes for it today is kind of hard
23:44 < searedvandal> guess it's not the most widely used window manager
23:44 < pfred1> yeah not so much these days
23:45 < aaro> well it has the gui config which allows you customize it enough so you make your own themes easily :)
23:46 < pfred1> aaro that's why I like Window Maker it is the most minimal WM with a GUI config utility
23:49 < searedvandal> when it comes to minimal WMs I prefer Openbox
23:49 < pfred1> what's Openbox do so great?
23:49 < aaro> yeah, the opposite of something like fvwm which has a really complex config file to customize it
23:50 < pfred1> out of all the boxes I'll use fluxbox if i need that kind of footprint
23:50 < pfred1> writing xml is not my idea of a good time though
23:52 < searedvandal> pfred1, don't think it does anything particularly great. I guess I'm just used to it after running a old laptop with lxde for a while, where I used openbox as the WM
23:52 < searedvandal> it's easy to configure, which is a plus
23:52 < aaro> openbox is great, you really don't need to touch xml as it has some gui tools like obmenu and obconf
23:53 < searedvandal> yep
23:53 < pfred1> I was using Trinity DE but I had some problems updating it and the way they botched up QT to keep KDE3 going was a pain too
23:53 < searedvandal> don't wanna spend hours writing config files to get things the way I want
23:54 < pfred1> if there was a way to use the QT3 it uses I never figured it out
23:59 < pfred1> what's this udisksd stuff?
--- Log closed Mon Jul 02 00:00:05 2018