--- Log opened Mon Jul 02 00:00:05 2018
--- Day changed Mon Jul 02 2018
00:00 < pfred1> it doesn't seem like it is the process that should be consuming the most RAM on my system to me
00:03 < Naan> hi I want to use unetbootin to install a live cd of gparted on a partition of my hard drive so i can boot into gparted
00:03 < Naan> but unetbootin shows me / under available hard drives... and I'm kind of afraid to click "OK" to see what that would do
00:04 < pingfloyd> don't use unetbootin
00:04 < Abbott> what's a good filesystem type for cross-os storage? exFAT?
00:05 < Naan> I don't have a usb stick and I don't want to root my android pingfloyd
00:05 < Naan> I feel like I have no choice
00:05 < pingfloyd> I'm not saying don't install it on a partition
00:05 < pingfloyd> I'm saying don't use unetbootin
00:06 < pingfloyd> unetbootin is garbage
00:06 < pingfloyd> I call unotbootin
00:06 < Naan> i cracked up
00:06 < pfred1> I've used unetbootin to make flash images
00:06 < pingfloyd> pfred1: I've made that mistake in the past too
00:06 < Naan> how do you suggest I install gparted on a partition then ?
00:07 < pfred1> it works with some distros
00:07 < pingfloyd> Naan: I'd just install to the partition
00:07 < pfred1> Naan aptitude install gparted ?
00:07 < Naan> but I need to boot into gparted live cd because i want to extend my mint partition
00:07 < pingfloyd> Naan: is a linux installed on that system?
00:07 < Naan> yes
00:08 < pingfloyd> *linux dist
00:08 < pingfloyd> in that case, why not just use it when you need gparted?
00:08 < pingfloyd> if you've got linux already installed, the extra partition is rather superfluous and just complicates things more than needed.  No?
00:09 < Naan> I thought I need to boot into a live cd of some distro to extend my linux mint partition because it will be mounted
00:09 < pfred1> I only resized a partition once and I used a flash live session to do it
00:09 < Naan> and i have no bootable device apart from my android and I don't want to root that
00:09 < pingfloyd> that's true, if you need to manipulate an partition you can unmount
00:10 < pingfloyd> that's true, if you need to manipulate a partition you can't unmount
00:10 < pfred1> could you create a ramdisk and install an OS into it?
00:11 < pingfloyd> probably in your case, you could install a minimal dist into another partition.
00:11 < pingfloyd> that would free up your other FSes (root, home, etc) so you can manipulate them safely
00:11 < Elladan> You can manipulate a partition while mounted.
00:11 < pingfloyd> Elladan: not in gparted
00:12 < pingfloyd> in fdisk yes
00:12 < Elladan> However, it's not especially safe.
00:12 < pingfloyd> of course not
00:12 < pingfloyd> you have to not screw up
00:12 < Naan> yeah I don't want to do that because i'm a noob
00:12 < pfred1> we all know what the f in fdisk stands for
00:12 < pingfloyd> takes a bit expertise to do it live
00:12 < Naan> and I really don't want to have to recreate whatever i have installed on here
00:12 < pfred1> it can really f a drive up
00:12 < Elladan> I've had more luck with fdisk/gdisk than parted in terms of not destroying my partitions TBQH.
00:13 < pingfloyd> I've never had gparted destroy a system
00:13 < pingfloyd> now parted it's a different story
00:13 < Naan> I feel like I have risk either way because the unallocated space I have is preceding my linux partition
00:13 < pingfloyd> never had any problems in fdisk
00:13 < Naan> so it's going to shift everything up i presume ?
00:13 < pingfloyd> Naan: well, you should always backup first
00:13 < Elladan> OTOH I've never had the slightest problem with LVM, so I just use it for everything. That doesn't help if your goal is dual-boot of course.
00:13 < pingfloyd> even if you do things right, problems can happen
00:14 < Naan> I don't have any practical way of doing that I just moved and left my ext HD at home
00:14 < pingfloyd> Elladan: I use lvm over luks
00:14 < pingfloyd> I've resized the underlying partition, which is tricky in that situation
00:14 < Elladan> Yeah, I've done that too.
00:14 < pingfloyd> it's quite a process
00:14 < pingfloyd> done it live
00:15 < pingfloyd> growing it works pretty good, but shrinking, you pretty much have to unmount
00:15 < Elladan> I always reboot after partition editing operations, because I've had too many problems otherwise even if I manually poke partition probing buttons etc.
00:15 < Naan> ok i'm going to go for the minimal distro on a partition approach i guess
00:15 < Naan> does it matter if I just use the gparted live CD because I understand that's a minimal distro in itself
00:15 < pingfloyd> Elladan: many of the time partprobe and partx don't cut it
00:16 < pingfloyd> so end up having to reboot
00:16 < Elladan> There are a few filesystems that can live-shrink, but mostly you need to resize while offline yeah.
00:17 < pingfloyd> I think newer version of partprobe are more dependable though
00:18 < Elladan> Anyway, with LVM you can live-migrate to another disk (even a network disk), repartition, and migrate back.
00:18 < Elladan> :-)
00:18 < Naan> oh i can just unzip all the gparted files onto a partition i don't have to use an iso and so i don't have to use unetbootin
00:18 < Naan> thank you for helping me
00:18 < pingfloyd> you don't have to convince me with LVM, you're preaching to the choir
00:18 < Naan> <3
00:19 < Elladan> The best sort of preaching.
00:19 < pingfloyd> I use LVM as a matter of course in any system I install
00:19 < pingfloyd> you also forgot one other big utility of it.  snapshots
00:20 < pingfloyd> a good reason to keep a bit of your VG unallocated
00:20 < pingfloyd> but really, if you're using lvm, it makes more sense to expand LVs as needed
00:20 < pingfloyd> that's one of the big points of using it.  None of this having to try to predict the future on storage usage.
00:21 < pingfloyd> so I laugh when people obsessive over how big to make their FSes when they install
00:21 < pingfloyd> it's like, "quit trying to predict the future and use LVM"
00:22 < pfred1> pingfloyd no.
00:22 < pingfloyd> pfred1: no what?
00:22 < pfred1> no and then LVM!
00:23 < pingfloyd> what?
00:23 < pfred1> I like a simple partitioning scheme
00:23 < pfred1> no managers!
00:24 < pingfloyd> LVM makes the partitioning scheme very simple
00:24 < pingfloyd> that's kind of the whole point of it
00:24 < pfred1> I have / /home and swap
00:24 < pfred1> can't get much more ismple than that
00:24 < pingfloyd> you can make one partition and use it as your PV
00:24 < pfred1> simple even
00:25 < pfred1> one partition?
00:25 < pingfloyd> even simpler
00:25 < pingfloyd> you probably don't know what you're missing
00:25 < pfred1> how do I format that without losing data if the OS craps out?
00:26 < pfred1> like it did when I added a video adapter card about a month ago
00:26 < pingfloyd> what's that got to do with it?
00:26 < pingfloyd> hardware can fail, OSes can crash
00:26 < pfred1> it has a lot to do with it for me
00:26 < pingfloyd> regardless of partitioning scheme or whether you use LVM or not.  This is why backups are so important.
00:26 < pfred1> in the decades I've been running Linux I've lost one drive
00:27 < pingfloyd> so you got lucky
00:27 < pfred1> indeed
00:27 < pingfloyd> I wouldn't gamble important data on luck though
00:27 < pfred1> I spread files I really care about on a few drives
00:27 < pfred1> but I don't do backups
00:27 < pingfloyd> I have 1GB Western Digital Drive that still run fine, but that doesn't mean other drives will get as lucky
00:27 < Loshki> pfred1: how'd you do with the stock market over the same period?
00:27 < pingfloyd> that's how old it is, it's only 1GB
00:28 < pfred1> Loshki I don't play the market
00:28 < pingfloyd> decommissioned out of obsolescence instead of failure--what you always hope for.
00:28 < pfred1> Loshki a buddy of mine's Dad used to run the NYSE and he said take your money to Vegas it makes more sense
00:29 < pingfloyd> screw the stock market
00:29 < pfred1> yeah Mr. Kieth was like the senior VP and he didn't believe in it
00:30 < pingfloyd> it's a legal ponzi scheme
00:30 < pfred1> I just watched a documentary called Ghost Exchange that didn't inspire confidence either
00:30 < pfred1> I built a data warehouse for Wall St. once
00:31 < pfred1> now they had some electrical backup system
00:31 < pingfloyd> no such thing as a quick buck (except for crime).
00:32 < pfred1> they had a battery bank about the size of a basketball court filled with shelves of lead acid batteries
00:32 < pingfloyd> you can make a quick buck as a criminal, but then you're gambling your freedom.
00:32 < pfred1> that was to tide them over until their diesel generators the siaze of freight locomotives kicked in
00:32 < pfred1> they had 3 of those on site
00:32 < pfred1> any one of them could have powered a small city
00:33 < pingfloyd> bitcoin is even more wasteful
00:33 < pfred1> they were not playing games when it came to data storage
00:33 < pfred1> me i can download most of what I have on my PC again if i ever lose it
00:34 < pingfloyd> pfred1: well, at least backup the important irreplaceable stuff
00:34 < pfred1> yeah i keep it on my file server
00:34 < pingfloyd> no point in backing up executables and libraries, etc.
00:34 < pfred1> it ain't going no place anytime too soon
00:34 < pingfloyd> that just wastes your backup storage
00:34 < pfred1> it gets a new seasonic PSU every 5 years whether it needs it or not
00:35 < pingfloyd> that's kind of thing though
00:35 < pfred1> thats my policy for all of my PCs
00:36 < pingfloyd> there's two approaches to backups.  Backup everything just in case (which brings up storage requirements), or just backup what is important (possibly missing a few things).
00:36 < pingfloyd> the latter approach rarely requires much storage
00:37 < pingfloyd> and what I mean by the latter approach is basically backing up your work (stuff you've created or worked hard on).
00:37 < pfred1> I upgrade hardware often enough and transfer that it isn't an issue
00:37 < pfred1> BTBF on HDDs is like 30 million hours now
00:38 < pingfloyd> but the downside to it, is it's easier to overlook including something important in the backups
00:38 < pfred1> they're pretty reliable
00:38 < pingfloyd> if you're well disciplined and organized though, you can mitigate that pretty well.
00:38 < pfred1> I'm convinced Linux goes pretty easy on thrashing disks too
00:39 < pingfloyd> I wouldn't put much on the drive not failing
00:39 < pfred1> in the decades I've run Linux the only files I've ever lost were ones i just forgot to copy over
00:39 < Dan39> pfred1: isn't window maker from the like 80s?
00:40 < Elladan> The best backup strategy is to make backups easy so you don't have to think about it.
00:40 < pfred1> Dan39 no the 90s
00:40 < pingfloyd> it will fail inevitably.  You might get lucky and it has no problems for a very long time, or you might get unlucky and it craps out within a few days.
00:40 < Dan39> close enough
00:40 < dogbert_2> RAID-1 mirror
00:40 < pfred1> heck X window is only from the 80s
00:40 < pingfloyd> I remember one drive I bought failed within a few days.  It was a Quantum.
00:40 < pfred1> yeah quantum fireballs were pieces of crap
00:41 < pfred1> I lost one of those myself
00:41 < Dan39> yea, but Window Maker still looks like the 90s :P
00:41 < pingfloyd> Dan39: window maker is a clone of Next's UI
00:41 < Dan39> i know
00:41 < Dan39> well, i do now as of about 30 seconds ago since im reading the wikipedia article
00:41 < pfred1> it is boxes on a desktop what more could you want?
00:41 < pingfloyd> Next came out around mid to late 80s
00:42 < pingfloyd> so in a sense you could say it's from a 80s
00:42 < pingfloyd> but Window Maker itself, came later
00:42 < pfred1> OK it is based on an 80s design
00:42 < Elladan> I once made a backup of my laptop, closed it, and then opened it 30 minutes before leaving for an international flight and found the SSD was dead.
00:42 < pfred1> a major contributor to Afterstep decided to just make his own WM
00:43 < pfred1> SSDs still worry me
00:43 < pingfloyd> back to LVM.  One of the reason snapshot are so useful is for when you're backing up the system.
00:43 < Elladan> Sure was nice being able to restore it over the internet, even if it did take days :-D
00:43 < pingfloyd> thanks to it, you can backup the system online without having to worry about inconsistency in your  backups.
00:43 < pfred1> but they seem a lot better than they were as far as reliability goes
00:44 < santamarta> http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/indexmag.html?http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/artsep16/mol-mdisc-review.html
00:44 < dysfigured> if my $HOME is chmod 700 but some child dir/file is 777 is it possible for other users to access it?
00:44 < Elladan> pingfloyd, yeah snapshots are good. OTOH most people don't know how to get a consistent snapshot at all.
00:44 < dysfigured> or does the parent dir always override?
00:44 < Dan39> dysfigured: tias
00:44 < Dan39> (try it and see)
00:44 < pfred1> that's what I'd do make another user
00:45 < dysfigured> i am trying but it seems like the parent dir always overrides
00:45 < Dan39> best way to learn and actually remember is find out yourself :P
00:45 < pfred1> well that's it then
00:45 < Elladan> pingfloyd, I mean you need to quiesce VMs, databases, installers etc. first. before taking the snap.
00:45 < dysfigured> gee, thanks, i would never have thought to try it >.>
00:45 < Dan39> dysfigured: i don't think so. you may not be able to ls it, but you should be able to read it
00:45 < pfred1> but if the users are members of the same group I don't know
00:46 < pfred1> I know amache used to access files in a user's home dir if it was configured that way
00:46 < pfred1> apache even
00:46 < pingfloyd> Elladan: that depends
00:47 < pingfloyd> Elladan: if your guests' storage is images, then that's covered since you're backing up form the snapshot,
00:47 < Dan39> maybe im wrong though :|
00:47 < pingfloyd> Elladan: that's the whole point of the snapshot, to quiesce the source.
00:48 < pingfloyd> anyway, I gotta run
00:48 < Dan39> i'm just getting permission denied. swear it worked before, o well
00:48 < pfred1> permissions tend to cause problems
00:49 < Dan39> oh, really?
00:49 < SpaceAce> morning. what's a good self hosted calendar/scheduler?
00:49 < Dan39> dysfigured: was that sarcasm? -_-
00:50 < pfred1> SpaceAce I am still working on getting remind working over here
00:50 < pfred1> SpaceAce but everything I've read makes it look good to me
00:51 < SpaceAce> might take a look at that, thanks
00:51 < SpaceAce> i was looking at radicale and baikal. seem to be all that i really need
00:51 < pfred1> I am such a scatter brain i need ot be reminded when to drag the garbage out
00:51 < SpaceAce> im going throuhg some mental burnout and need help getting my day organised
00:53 < pfred1> well remind seems pretty sophisticated
00:53 < pfred1> it has a gui front end written in tk for it too
00:54 < pfred1> in case you don't want to learn how to script it
00:56 < pfred1> though there is a bug in apt as far as installing it goes
00:56 < pfred1> W: APT had planned for dpkg to do more than it reported back (40 vs 46).
01:03 < Naan> wish me luck off we go
01:06 < seven-eleven> what dropbox-alike directory synchronizing software can you recommend for linux?
01:07 < Elladan> seven-eleven, I like syncthing.
01:07 < Elladan> If you want cloud storage, you could use dropbox or whatever.
01:07 < seven-eleven> Elladan, thanks i check syncthing out
01:08 < mgolisch> yeah syncthing is nice
01:08 < Dan39> nextcloud i hear is supposed to be dropbox-like
01:08 < Dan39> but its more than just file storage i think, unlike syncthing
01:10 < Dan39> syncthing is interesting too
01:10 < Dan39> i like the decentralized idea
01:16 < Naan> hi i get "error: file 'live-hd/vmlinuz' not found" and "you need to load the kernel first" when trying to boot into Gparted on a partition
01:16 < Naan> I think it might be because I put the gparted on a different hard drive
01:19 < Naan> wait never mind it's because i unzipped it all wrong
01:19 < Naan> god damnit
01:22 < seven-eleven> i see that nextcloud can sync calenders and contacts. what's the advantage of synchronizing contacts over different devices? i need my contact only in my  phone or do people use two phones? :S
01:23 < dogbert_2> [    0.080000] smpboot: Total of 2 processors activated (11970.79 BogoMIPS)
01:23 < seven-eleven> also it seems that contacts are synced by android itself already
01:26 < seven-eleven> oh i see, carddav comes to play when you want to sync between OSX and android
01:27 < sacules> anybody using the SauceCodePro font? I have problems with the glyphs getting cut
01:29 < cmj> you can set font spacing, but most likely your term doesn't support wide glyphs
01:29 < sacules> mmnn maybe? I'm using st
01:29 < jim> is this a continuation of the saucecode == drink recipe joke from yesterday?
01:30 < cmj> heh
01:32 < cmj> sacules: there are patches for urxvt for wide-glyph support. might try that (it's what i use)
01:50 < seven-eleven> is syncthing a considerable strategy to backup data offsite, because data is constantly transfered to a remote place, making it advantageous if you dont have much bandwidth. then on the remote host you can actually perform the backup locally on the synced folder
02:05 < saderror256> hey
02:06 < jim> hi
02:07 < saderror256> i made my website
02:07 < saderror256> i prefer minimal design lol, i hate most flat, modern, heavy bloated websites
02:07 < Dan39> saderror256: well...
02:07 < saderror256> Dan39: well what
02:08 < Dan39> whats the link...?
02:08 < saderror256> Dan39: ohh
02:08 < saderror256> here ill put it
02:08 < saderror256> dc4.us/saderror256
02:08 < saderror256> i think thats the one
02:09 < Dan39> cute
02:09 < saderror256> i miss the old way websites looked :P
02:09 < jim> "welcome to my home page"?
02:09 < saderror256> jim: yeah
02:10 < Dan39> Reinvent the whell
02:10 < Dan39> typo on purpose?
02:10 < saderror256> Dan39: yikes, ill go fix it
02:10 < saderror256> wheel
02:10 < Dan39> but you've reinvented it
02:10 < Dan39> it's now whell, your new invention!
02:11 < saderror256> fixed
02:11 < saderror256> LOL, cant wait to put the first whells on a car and see if it works
02:12 < jim> some years back I was experimenting with some active site stuff (web pages which are programs, or websites which are DBs) which separated the mechanism from the styling so you can make it look how you want
02:12 < saderror256> jim: custom css? stored as cookies you mean?
02:12 < jim> had a great templating system
02:13 < barneygale> saderror256, love the website, thinking I'm going to create a personal website along the same lines (e.g. underdesigned but full of character)
02:13 < saderror256> also the blog bit, my blog generating software was written in bash, and its on my gitlab account
02:13 < jim> you can have css or any of that how you wanted
02:13 < saderror256> its called "blibber"
02:13 < seven-eleven> what is dropbox or syncthing doing while you download file, is it syncing the file already or waiting until the file has been downloaded completely to the disk?
02:14 < Dan39> does this gwdWM really do what it says? sounds like a lot haha
02:14 < saderror256> seven-eleven: it usually generates a zipped file of your saved folders and sends them back to you
02:15 < saderror256> Dan39: yep, ive been working on it for a little bit, atm it doesnt do a huge lot, its so far has a login manager for security reasons, and im getting ready to work on the file manager, terminal, then text editor
02:15 < saderror256> the idea is to get everything working server side, like an alternative to ssh when your gone from home
02:15 < hatp> How do I change my default font? Firefox seems to inherit the default font for my OS and refused to render unicode characters (uicode characters that aren't ascii)
02:15 < saderror256> and the windows work as well, i gave them some shadows
02:15 < hatp> my terminal won't render them either
02:15 < Dan39> heh
02:16 < saderror256> hatp: if you use kde plasma, its in the gtk settings area :)
02:16 < Dan39> your writing is great saderror256
02:16 < hatp> i3 unfortunately, was curious how to do it via command line
02:16 < saderror256> Dan39: for my projects readme, or source code? or for the website?
02:16 < Dan39> readme and site
02:16 < saderror256> Dan39: thanks :)
02:16 < Dan39> Its a fine day, you say, and you stop at a library and need to work on a project, easy peezy!
02:16 < Dan39> haha
02:17 < saderror256> i write my readmes with passion lol
02:17 < saderror256> Dan39: since i wrote this in php, read the commit messages for a laugh
02:17 < Dan39> already there
02:17 < Dan39> haha
02:18 < Dan39> i find php to be pretty easy, but also annoying sometime
02:18 < Dan39> s
02:18 < Sveta> do you work with php for a living or not?
02:18 < Dan39> lot of the gripes about it are definitely valid, but i find if it gets the job done quickly, whatever
02:18 < saderror256> yeah, easy syntax (like perl), easy to get things done, but hard to read code, and broken at times
02:18 < saderror256> Sveta: not for a living, for a hobby
02:19 < Dan39> Sveta: i'm not a php developer, but i do some php at work, did a decently big project recently
02:19 < Naan> hey I can't get grub2 to update based on my entry in 40_custom
02:19 < jim> I'm not a php developer... but I play one on TV...
02:19 < Dan39> Sveta: why?
02:20 < saderror256> imho, php is the "duct-tape" of the web, gets the job done, pretty messy though but still works
02:20 < Dan39> jim: congratz
02:20 < jim> kidding :)
02:20 < Sveta> Dan39, perhaps i'd like to ask you a few questions on a foss project, where your expertise could be useful
02:21 < Naan> is there a problem with this? https://paste.linux.community/view/4913c1a3
02:21 < saderror256> jim: btw, i was playing around with x86 assembly yesterday, found it lots of fun and actually pretty easy, sure, its pretty impossible to remember some of the kernel codes, but its still fun :)
02:21 < Dan39> some stuff is just infuriating, like empty("0") == true
02:22 < saderror256> Dan39: wait till you see javascript
02:22 < saderror256> i messed around with it and got this code
02:22 < Dan39> ive done javascript recently too
02:22 < Dan39> not a fan, i dont see the big hype over it recently
02:22 < saderror256> (((""+(!!!!!!(true==true)+!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=]]+!!!![[)+1+1+![2]).split(""))).join("3");
02:22 < Dan39> python for life dude
02:23 < saderror256> thats 231313f3a3l3s3e in javascript
02:23 < Dan39> thanks i guess?
02:23 < saderror256> my irc client just gave me a wikipedia link for some strange reason
02:23 < sacules> lol
02:23 < Dan39> strange reason?
02:23 < Dan39> you pasted a wikipedia link...
02:23 < saderror256> no i didnt... :P
02:23 < Dan39> -_-
02:24 < saderror256> konversation must have a feature that corrects certain characters to wikipedia searches
02:24 < saderror256> https://codepen.io/saderror256/pen/jKdYVm
02:24 < saderror256> heres the direct link lol
02:24 < sacules> hey guys why are some unicode symbols not displayed correctly on firefox?
02:24 < sacules> I have unifont
02:24 < saderror256> sacules: like little squares?
02:24 < sacules> yeah
02:25 < saderror256> because you are probably missing fonts
02:25 < saderror256> what distro are you using?
02:25 < sacules> maybe, but I have the liberation, dejavu, and noto fonts
02:25 < sacules> void linux
02:25 < saderror256> then yeah, its probably a missing font
02:25 < saderror256> look around for some unicode replace fonts
02:26 < saderror256> noto fonts, dejavu, only give a-zA-Z0-9 Fonts i think
02:26 < saderror256> im just guessing, im not sure
02:26 < jim> inerthia, please make sure your connection is working ok, you got zapped for flapping in and out yesterday
02:27 < Dan39> saderror256: lol tcalculate... is that yours?
02:27 < saderror256> Dan39: whats tcalculate?
02:27 < Dan39> maybe not
02:27 < Dan39> i searched your email name and found a github user Piggyuniform
02:28 < saderror256> o/
02:28 < saderror256> piggyuniform was my old name
02:28 < Dan39> talculate
02:28 < Dan39> A Basic Linux Command-line Calculator!
02:28 < Dan39> but the main script file is just the same thing as the install script
02:28 < saderror256> wow...... memories
02:28 < sacules> saderror256: installed font-symbola and courier-unicode and works properly now yay
02:28 < saderror256> i didnt even know i had a github account for piggyuniform
02:28 < Dan39> it says 1 year ago... thats not that long!
02:28 < saderror256> sacules: np :)
02:29 < Dan39> saderror256: also, it's probably a bad idea to put your age on there :P
02:30 < saderror256> Dan39: that was a long ago xP
02:30 < saderror256> but yeah im a young linux user
02:30 < Dan39> saderror256: ever seen the windows xp in browser simulator?
02:30 < saderror256> Dan39: not but ive seen windows 93, the joke website
02:31 < Dan39> i dont know how this windows xp in browser works so well, but it does haha
02:32 < saderror256> im still looking at this github account, sorta brings me back :P
02:32 < Dan39> it just BSOD's on me ---
02:33 < saderror256> also its cringey to me now, i was actually going to make a website with .tk domain for a simple terminal calculator that could only calculate two numbers... .-.
02:34 < Dan39> hehe
02:34 < Dan39> ive done just as bad calculator :P
02:35 < saderror256> Dan39: time to recreate talculator in assembly then... :) i think it would be a fun program to make
02:35 < Dan39> saderror256: the original program isn't even there, just a script to install and remove
02:35 < saderror256> Dan39: read the commit history, its there, i must have accidentally replaced it
02:36 < Dan39> oh
02:38 < Dan39> it's perfect in every way.
02:38 < saderror256> 'please install talculator to remove this message' seems like a jerkish move i made
02:38 < Dan39> haha
02:38 < Dan39> installing into /usr/bin/? tsk tsk
02:39 < saderror256> yep, i was an idiot at the time and didnt know there was a local, or even a path
02:44 < Dan39> saderror256: at least you md5'ed your passwords in php, that's better than this 50yo lady i know that worked for the state as a web developer for years
02:45 < Naan> is there an OT room i wanna hear more about this 50yo lady
02:45 < Dan39> don't get me started
02:45 < Naan> lmao
02:45 < strixdio> I had a ssh key set up from my laptop to my server. All of a sudden the other day it started asking for a password again. Any thoughts?
02:46 < Dan39> asp classic with SQL injections and all, on a site holdings peoples personal medical data
02:46 < Naan> blimey
02:46 < saderror256> Dan39: yeah, i know its not the most secure, but it does the job best. reminds me of the person from tmobile au that said "why encrypt our passwords when our security is so good?" on twitter, when caught for not encrypting passwords, more ironic, she had php 3 installed
02:47 < Dan39> oh no saderror256 you deleted piggyuniform!?
02:47 < Dan39> :'(
02:47 < saderror256> Dan39: yeah, sorry :( but it had to go, the password was very insecure
02:47 < Dan39> heh
02:48 < saderror256> and on the same twitter thread, someone found a vulnerability for XSS in there server using php get requests
02:51 < Naan> oh my god the reason I've been falling on my ass for half an hour is because grub doesn't see GPT unless you flag it in the cfg file and my storage HDD is formatted GPT
02:51 < Naan> uh uses GPT rather
02:52 < Dan39> saderror256: you have a lot of half-completed projects lol
02:54 < koala_man> md5 is only marginally better than plaintext these days
02:55 < saderror256> Dan39: heck yeah i do :P
02:55 < saderror256> and i work on each one
03:02 < ansraliant> koala_man: I know right?. We should make a hashing function that returns a concatenation of Arnold Schwarzenegger one liners
03:02 < ansraliant> and the concatenation depends on the contents of the file
03:02 < ansraliant> haha
03:02 < Thedarkb> I keep having to set my trackpoint sensitivity by changing the speed setting in the i8042 directory in sysfs.
03:02 < gronke> In Fedora, is there a hotkey to suppress the little boot thing with the Fedora symbol so I can see what's going on behind the scenes?
03:02 < Thedarkb> How do I make sysfs changes permanent.
03:03  * aBound says your move Spider Man :P
03:24 < uupz> hello all, i have asked this question before about a linx distro that is lite fo my spare laptop..i actually booted it up and the stat are: 2.13ghz with 4gb of ram
03:25 < uupz> not a beast of course, but i do enjoy debian..do you think it would run fine with debian?  i am setting up various NIDS software, so i need a machine that runs all the time
03:25 < uupz> any suggestions?
03:26 < bls> yes, that's more than enough for debian
03:26 < uupz> oh ok than you bls :)
03:37 < notmike> uupz: lit
03:39 < learningc> How can I check if Linux is downloading anything off th internet?
03:40 < notmike> netstat -natp
03:40 < notmike> Psi-Jack: take note brethren!
03:41 < Pusteblume> iptraf might be useful too
03:41 < Psi-Jack> netstat is obsolete and broken, and should not be used. Equivalent to that is: ss -natp
03:42 < learningc> It does not show how many bytes/sec
03:45 < saderror256> hi
03:46 < jim> hi
03:46 < Dan39> sup saderror256
03:48 < jim> learningc, sometimes I watch my router lights (dunno whether that's upload or download)
03:54 < spare> awk 'NR>2{print$1$2":"$10}' /proc/net/dev interface:total_rx:total_tx can read the difference every second
03:57 < sacules> hey guys, know any terminal email client that can show images?
03:58 < Pusteblume> if mutt cant do it nothing can
03:59 < Sitri> There aren't really any super good ways to display images in a terminal.  IIRC there are two main ways, and very, very few terminals support either.
03:59 < pnbeast> I'm sure pine-ish things can do it - they may need to be configured to use your image-viewer of choice.
04:00 < Sitri> On top of that, the actual terminals (not the X11 emulated ones) don't support either of those methods, and instead have to use the framebuffer.
04:00 < Sitri> All in all, you're much better off just shelling out to an actual image view application.
04:00 < Sitri> viewer*
04:05 < saderror256> good news :)
04:05 < saderror256> i got the file manager in gwdWM working succesfully
04:05 < saderror256> i had an issue with it not reading files, but hte issue was that i needed to chown each directory scan
04:06 < saderror256> also i had another issue, where people could use the applications without logging in **HUGE SECURITY RISK**, so i made it send a get request containing the md5 of hte password, which checks if it matches
04:06 < learningc> jim, I would be nice to have the router displaying upload download speed on a small lcd screen.
04:06 < learningc> s/I/it
04:06 < saderror256> hey Dan39
04:06 < saderror256> hey jim
04:07 < saderror256> and it you think the get request thing is a bad idea, its actually under an iframe, which is how to works without refreshing the entire page :)
04:08 < saderror256> or, entire window manager in our case :P
04:08 < Dan39> lol saderror256
04:09 < Dan39> saderror256: if your on like php 5.5+  use password_verify() and password_hash() instead of md5()
04:10 < Dan39> it uses better algorithm and adds salt for you
04:10 < Dan39> but tbh just do whatever, i dont think your project is going to be production ready :P
04:12 < jim> isn't an iframe part of how something looks?
04:13 < Dan39> jim: no, its a like having a tab inside of your page...
04:13 < notmike> jim: is netstat obsolete
04:14 < Dan39> and iframe are like obsolete and bad practice
04:14 < jim> notmike, maybe. ss is "more modern" and maybe works better
04:14 < notmike> Is netat 'broken'?
04:15 < jim> I dunno
04:15 < Dan39> netstat is fine lol
04:16 < jim> isn't netstat part of the net-tools -> iproute2 thing?
04:16 < notmike> Probably just Psi-Jack being a troll like usual
04:16 < Dan39> yea...
04:17 < Dan39> its deprecated
04:17 < jim> notmike, please don't do that here
04:18 < jim> just ignore him if you want
04:18 < notmike> I would never do such a thing
04:19 < saderror256> Dan39: cool, ill check it out
04:19 < Psi-Jack> Dan39: netstat uses old ioctl calls that have been replaced by more reliable netlink calls.
04:19 < saderror256> is gitlab.com slow for anyone?
04:19 < Dan39> Psi-Jack: ok
04:19 < saderror256> it took 5 minutes to push my commit
04:19 < Dan39> it wasnt responding early
04:19 < saderror256> ok
04:20 < saderror256> yeah seems normal now
04:38 < backnforth> Hi, what software should I install on my server to keep it secure? I understand fail2ban is really good, but is there anything else I'm missing?
04:39 < Sveta> backnforth, take a look at https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/securing-debian-howto/
04:39 < Pusteblume> see you in a few months
04:40 < Sveta> why
04:40 < backnforth> anything I can do quickly for the mean time?
04:40 < Dan39> backnforth: what running services do you have besides ssh?
04:41 < backnforth> Drupal
04:41 < Dan39> well there is your main attack vector
04:41 < backnforth> agreed
04:42 < pnbeast> backnforth, typical advice on securing a server often involves *not* installing extra software.  If you must run a dynamic website, you should probably look into SELinux.
04:42 < Dan39> there may be some security addons for drupal also
04:42 < pnbeast> (you might not like it, but you should consider it)
04:43 < backnforth> There is security addons for Drupal
04:43 < pnbeast> I think drupal just had a major vulnerability a few weeks ago.  Keep it patched.
04:43 < Dan39> but of course #1 is keeping it up to date
04:43 < Abbott> I'm trying to connect to my server using a private key, but I keep getting 'permission denied (publickey).' So something is going wrong. How can I find out why it isn't taking my private key?
04:44 < Sveta> check the sshd logs
04:44 < strive> Abbott: Is your sshd_config file allowing public keys?
04:45 < Abbott> I can log in with the same private key on another machine, so I believe so
04:45 < fryguy> how did you add the public key to the non-functioning machine?
04:46 < Abbott> I generated the keys on the sshd machine
04:46 < saderror256> i think someone is ddosing gitlab
04:46 < Abbott> and copied the private key over scp
04:46 < saderror256> the resources on status.gitlab.com spiked huge
04:46 < Abbott> when i still had password login configured
04:46 < saderror256> well gotta go, good night folks
04:46 < fryguy> Abbott: ok and what did you do with the public key?
04:47 < Abbott> I copied it into the authorized_keys file
04:48 < fryguy> Abbott: and what are the permissions on that file, and the .ssh directory containing it?
04:49 < Abbott> I can't get to the authorized_keys file of the server atm, I can check on another computer, hold on
04:51 < Abbott> it's 644
04:51 < Abbott> I found out I was using the wrong key
04:51 < Abbott> my bad
04:52 < Abbott> I can connect now
04:54 < sauvin> Abbott, I've done pretty much that same thing so many times I'm just going to have to plead "advancing years". This very channel has pointed out to me where I missed obvious stuff nearly every time. :D
04:54 < Sveta> Abbott, cool
04:56 < tomreyn> hi. do you get a lot of people inquiring about https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=196683 here?
04:56 < tomreyn> "Random Soft Lockup on new Ryzen build"
04:56 < tomreyn> i got a system affected by it (and worked around it), i'm just wondering how widespread it really is.
04:57 < Abbott> well at least it's solved now lol
04:57 < Abbott> thanks for the patience
05:26 < samrg472> Can anyone recommend a centralized lightweight logging setup for viewing logs on a couple machines in one place?
05:27 < pnbeast> samrg472, a common practice is to have networks log to a centralized, well-protected, loghost.
05:29 < samrg472> I've been keeping an eye on syslog to get the logs to a single place, but I've been trying to find something lightweight to process it and easily view it (e.g. elasticsearch, splunk, but those are too heavy)
05:30 < pnbeast> samrg472, watching it won't help.  You have to configure your system(s) to log to the loghost.  I sometimes use a somewhat heavy program called "less" to view log files, but opinions vary on the effectiveness of it.
05:36 < samrg472> pnbeast: hmm :) I've been using journalctl to view logs for services. I haven't looked too much into syslog and I want to avoid creating one giant mess of logging everything in a single file
05:44 < cmj> you split it out via syslog-ng
05:45 < cmj> you can run multitail as well
06:07 < Elodin> hello, cant modprobe cifs
06:08 < Elodin> Module cifs not found in directory
06:08 < Elodin> error
06:09 < cmj> zgrep -i cifs /proc/config.gz
06:09 < Elodin> done that already, lemme grab the info
06:09 < cmj> CONFIG_CIFS=m
06:10 < Elodin> yeah, that line is in there cmj
06:11 < cmj> did you build kernel by hand?
06:11 < cmj> find /lib/modules/`uname -r` | grep cifs.ko
06:12 < Elodin>  im gonna reboot real quick
06:13 < DildoSwaggins> real quick my ass
06:13 < cmj> that won't make it magically appear
06:14 < TuringDevice> If you wanted to read some arbitrary line in a text file, which tool would you use? So far I have been using awk and sed... but is there a "standard" way?
06:14 < Elladan> What, like line #1742?
06:14 < TuringDevice> Right... the next line of the file as determined by a script. So line X.
06:14 < Elladan> You can use head and tail.
06:15 < Elladan> Or whatever your preferred one-liner language is, awk or perl or whatever.
06:15 < Elladan> I don't know if there's something more elegant.
06:15 < cmj> you are looking for a random line?
06:16 < cmj> shuf is good for that
06:16 < Elladan> i.e. "head -n #### file | tail -n 1"
06:17 < DildoSwaggins> TuringDevice, there's nothign wrong w/ using `sed` for this... `sed '<line_number>!d' <file>`
06:17 < cmj> ah
06:17 < cmj> yes sed
06:17 < TuringDevice> Currently I am using sed.
06:17 < TuringDevice> sed -n '142, 142p' [path]
06:17 < DildoSwaggins> then you're good
06:17 < DildoSwaggins> if it's not broken, don't fix it :P
06:18 < TuringDevice> Was running into issues (unrelated) and tried this: awk 'FNR>=142 && FNR<=142' [path]
06:18 < TuringDevice> Also worked. Just wondering if there was any real reason to use one over the other.
06:18 < TuringDevice> And, yes, both worked fine and were plenty fast for my needs. :)
06:18 < DildoSwaggins> what issues were you running into?
06:18 < TuringDevice> It was tied to the larger script… issues with Unicode. Somehow that was getting mangled. But fixed it.
06:19 < DildoSwaggins> TuringDevice, the main difference between methods is: "it works for this particular scenario" vs. "it works for every scenario"
06:19 < TuringDevice> At first I thought sed might be doing it… though seemed unlikely (and just testing it there was no issue… but, hey, still tested changing it out).
06:19 < Elladan> Personally whenever scripts get above trivial complexity, I prefer to rewrite them in a proper language like python or even perl.
06:20 < DildoSwaggins> if the issues you were running into occur often enough, then, yes, you're right, you need a better method
06:20 < TuringDevice> My CLI skills are, at best, weak. Used to do more in the late '80s and early '90s but have not done much since.. and did not do a whole lot then.
06:20 < TuringDevice> I am actually doing this on a different Unix… and that leads to some issues, too (macOS)
06:21 < Elladan> The nice thing about using a proper language is that a) it's all in one language and b) it's a lot easier to debug.
06:21 < DildoSwaggins> IMO, using standard linux utilities is much better than writing custom code
06:21 < TuringDevice> on the Mac, sed insists on saving a tmp file unless you specially tell it not to, and you need different syntax.
06:22 < TuringDevice> Took me a while to figure out why it was failing on the mac.
06:22 < TuringDevice> I am embarrassed to say what most of my script is in. :)
06:22 < Elladan> DildoSwaggins, as soon as it's got any significant looping or branching, variables, or complex expressions, it is custom code.
06:23 < Elladan> DildoSwaggins, it's just written in shell script and a variety of tool-specific syntax.
06:23 < DildoSwaggins> a shell script that pipes I/O through standard linux tools is, IMO the best way to do it
06:24 < DildoSwaggins> tool 1 | sort | parse | filter
06:24 < TuringDevice> dildoswaggins, I will have to test your: sed 142!d
06:25 < TuringDevice> If that works it is more concise, if nothing else. Not that how long the command is really matters much.
06:25 < DildoSwaggins> TuringDevice, i ran it ~5 times on a local file to confirm it before I wrote it here :)
06:26 < DildoSwaggins> a 300mb CSV file nonetheless
06:26 < TuringDevice> Fair enough. I then looked at man pages and the like.
06:28 < Elladan> sed '142!d' seems like a perfectly reasonable way to do it, though my trivial reading of the sed command language suggests it will read the whole file even if you just want the first line.
06:30 < TuringDevice> The files are not likely to be more than 5000 lines. Maybe 10,000 at the most I would think.
06:30 < TuringDevice> But is there a way to do it so the whole file is not read?
06:31 < Elladan> Probably, but with files that size I'd be shocked if it was worthwhile.
06:33 < TuringDevice> True… but it does quite a few reads — seems fewer is better. Though if it makes no practical difference there is that. :)
06:34 < Casper> hi there, what is a good lvm graphical manager??
06:34 < TuringDevice> And given the rest of the code, made by me — someone who is clueless — I doubt it would matter on the grand scale
06:34 < Psi-Jack> "Good?"
06:35 < TuringDevice> So that's what I will go with
06:37 < Elladan> Casper, I find it easy to configure from the command line
06:38 < TuringDevice> OK, I'll move on… thanks for the help.
06:38 < Elladan> Casper, a quick google suggested KDE kvpm / partition manager, no idea if it's good.
06:38 < DildoSwaggins> respect the law of diminishing returns
06:40 < Elladan> Casper, you might consider that being familiar with the command line interface will come in handy if you're ever in a rescue or remote admin situation.
06:40 < Casper> kvpm was more meh...
06:40 < TuringDevice> Makes sense
06:40 < Casper> I had to do all my stuff from the command line last time I had to replace a failed disk
06:41 < TuringDevice> I do not fear the command line and can do basic things but am hardly an expert
06:41 < Casper> and during all of the rebuild time, it was showing the failed disk as missing, and the new drive as unallocated
06:41 < brettgilio> Hey, all.
06:42 < TuringDevice> Back ups are good to have. :)
06:42 < TuringDevice> Did you recover all the data?
06:42 < Casper> I'm in the process of possibly replacing my nas, so might take the opportunity to change stuff, so it's time to check for proper monitoring and maintenance tool, or go back to mdadm directly...
06:42 < Casper> data was not lost fortunatelly
06:42 < Casper> thanks to raid6
06:43 < brettgilio> Will one of you ping me? I'm trying to test my Lisp code for notifications.
06:44 < TuringDevice> Why did you need to use a command line?
06:44 < phinxy> Is this how verbose boot messages get or is there an option to show more? http://termbin.com/hw5n  The boot process does not continue but not sure what it get stuck on doing
06:45 < TuringDevice> Are there rooms where chat bots / pseudo-turing machines are allowed?
06:45 < Casper> kvpm did not let me do anything due to the missing drive  yay
06:45 < TuringDevice> obviously not here!
06:46 < TuringDevice> Despite my name I am pretty sure I am human.
06:48 < TuringDevice> 10010001 :)
06:49 < sauvin> Expertise comes with practise. I often have trouble finding the goddamn button or menu I want in a GUI.
06:49 < phinxy> kernel parameter loglevel?
06:50 < afidegnum> hello, i m having an issue.  how do i convert an extended logical to extended primary partition?
06:50 < TuringDevice> Depends on the type work you do and your system — and just your preferences.
06:51 < afidegnum> i want to install windows on the extended partition
06:51 < TuringDevice> I try to be familiar with at least the basics of Linux, Windows, and macOS, as well as common GUIs and the CLI.
06:51 < TuringDevice> Does NOT mean I am an expert in all of them. :)
06:51 < sauvin> I'm an expert at swearing at Mac OSX. :D
06:51 < TuringDevice> I use macOS as my primary OS, but use Linux for my "TV" computer./
06:52 < sauvin> Nothing wrong with that.
06:52 < revel> Your wut? .-.
06:52 < sauvin> TuringDevice, what kinds of stuff do you do with your Mac?
06:53 < TuringDevice> I do a fair amount of work with screen recording / screencasting.
06:53 < DildoSwaggins> test if it blends
06:53 < koala_man> afidegnum: do you mean logical to primary?
06:53 < TuringDevice> As far as I know nothing on Linux allows me the same level of "power" or whatever. Same features or even something like them.
06:54 < afidegnum> i m trying to install WinOS as a dual boot to existing linux installation
06:54 < TuringDevice> Which is NOT to put Linux down (this is a Linux room — I am not pushing folks to use the Mac!)
06:54 < afidegnum> unfortunately, i have Extended -> logical partition, using gparted i can't convert it back to primary partition
06:55 < Casper> afidegnum: install windows, install linux, make grub recognise the windows bootloader and chain it.
06:55 < TuringDevice> I also use Photoshop and then work with "common" programs — word processors, spreadsheets (mostly simple needs), some presentation software (not as much as in the past)… even a Usenet read (which macOS has nothing good for)
06:56 < TuringDevice> sauvin: so for the type of work I do Linux is not as good of a fit… but it IS a good fit for my "TV" system.
06:56 < Elladan> afidegnum, I believe the method would be to delete it and recreate a primary partition with the same start and end address. However, I think this is very unlikely to work.
06:57 < revel> afidegnum: If you ever end up reinstalling everything, then at least format to GPT.
06:57 < koala_man> that sounds like the easier way
06:57 < Elladan> afidegnum, among other things I'm under the impression that Windows is extremely picky about partitioning and will probably refuse.
06:57 < afidegnum> Casper:  i have an error "unable to install windows on the selected partition"
06:57 < cmj> that's not an error
06:57 < Casper> afidegnum: uefi?
06:58 < revel> It's finnicky about that and wants a primary part as well, I think.
06:58 < afidegnum> no Legacy boot
06:58 < Elladan> Years ago at least, Windows really didn't like having more than one primary partition either, even though the partition format supported it.
06:58 < TuringDevice> sauvin — what is it about macOS you do not like. It *is* a very different beast than Linux.
06:58 < afidegnum> Casper:
06:58 < Casper> easiest is to flush all the partitions, install windows, then shrink the partition, create extended, put linux there, grub as mbr
06:59 < revel> Casper: UEFI doesn't support DOS partitioning, and that's the only thing that has extended partitions, so...
06:59 < afidegnum> Casper: long rework
07:00 < TuringDevice> ircrooms
07:00 < koala_man> if you've ever wondered why all the installation guides always says to install Windows first, here's one of the several reasons
07:00 < Elladan> afidegnum, you can copy the linux installation at the block level onto another disk (after shrinking it appropriately first), install windows, and then copy it back into a new partition.
07:00 < Casper> revel: he said no to uefi
07:00 < TuringDevice> sorry 'bout that… was trying to use a shortcut for my expander. Goofed. :)
07:01 < Casper> you can also tar your linux and just untar it back
07:01 < Elladan> afidegnum, ... if you want to avoid having to do a lot of reconfiguration etc.
07:01 < sauvin> TuringDevice, from my personal perspective: "walled garden".
07:01 < revel> Yes. I was saying that there'd be no way to have both extended partitions *and* UEFI, and as he had the former...
07:01 < Elladan> (You'll need to change fstab and reinstall grub, of course)
07:01 < oiaohm> Really I have given up on having windows and Linux on the same drive.
07:01 < brunobronosky> I started to create a RAID0 using fdisk and mdadm, but lost connection and wasn't running in tmux. I need to wipe it all out and start again. How do clean it up so I can go again?
07:02 < oiaohm> If I want windows and linux dual boot I give windows drive by itself.
07:02 < TuringDevice> sauvin: I get that as a philosophy, but any real-world examples. NOT saying you are wrong… just curious.
07:02 < TuringDevice> In other words: you wanted to do X and that is easy on Linux and a pain on macOS.
07:03 < sauvin> TuringDevice, I *do* do some video editing and graphics work and stuff. I'm told the graphics package I use isn't quite as powerful as PhotoShop, and I can believe that. I'm also told that Macintosh software is craploads more stable and capable than kdenlive, and I have NO trouble believing that. It crashes ALL THE TIME. However, for me, it's a hobby. If I did this kind of thing for a living, I'd be saying very different things.
07:04 < sauvin> I AM in a similar fix with respect to Windows. I can't stand it, but if/when I ever get back into professional work, I'd have no choice. Linux simply does not have appropriate engineering software.
07:04 < Elladan> sauvin, FWIW I found that the flatpak image of kdenlive worked a zillion times better than my distro's copy.
07:04 < TuringDevice> sauvin: fair enough
07:04 < oiaohm> koala_man: all the installation guides for multi boot fail to cover all the different times windows updates end up distrupting you bootloader.
07:05 < sauvin> Elladan, got it, haven't poked at it yet. I kinda like flatpaks and snaps because I get to have more recent versions of stuff they make available without confusing my package manager.
07:05 < TuringDevice> For the work I do I swap the mouse pointer in post production… hiding it, changing its size, and often replacing the image entirely. That needs GPU data in the video file.
07:05 < koala_man> oiaohm: is that a Windows 10 thing?
07:05 < TuringDevice> Means propriatary but gives more capabilities. That and more.
07:06 < Elladan> sauvin, it had some real issues too, because of the flatpak. But it wasn't totally broken and didn't crash.
07:06 < oiaohm> koala_man: I first had with windows nt4 different updates of XP and 2000 do it Windows 7 enterprise does at times....  Basically its been ongoing pain in but.
07:06 < TuringDevice> sauvin: and I used Photoshop feature GIMP does not have.
07:06 < DildoSwaggins> in the work I do, i swap the mouse buttons on co-workers computers as a prank
07:06 < DildoSwaggins> i'm self employed.
07:06 < TuringDevice> I set the beep to be a recording of the phone on their desk. :)
07:06 < DildoSwaggins> *sigh*
07:07 < sauvin> TuringDevice, so, I think we can agree that Windows and Macintosh have their place in professional settings.
07:07 < oiaohm> TuringDevice: You did look a krita.
07:07 < sauvin> I looked at krita. I can't do with it what I can do with gimp.
07:07 < Elladan> In one of my first jobs, everyone ran an X server on their windows NT machines with no xhost controls, so me and the other intern would point the "melt" xscreensaver at them.
07:07 < oiaohm> sauvin: krita can do a few things gimp cannot do yet.
07:07 < Elladan> It was great, they'd click the start menu and it would start melting before they could click anything.
07:08 < TuringDevice> sauvin: sure… and again I am NOT saying one should not use Linux. Use what you like. For me the benefits of Linux are it is free and runs on old hardware — even off of a USB flash drive on an old iMac with a dead internal drive.
07:08 < TuringDevice> oiaohm — I have breifly.
07:08 < TuringDevice> and briefly, too. :)
07:09 < sauvin> TuringDevice, the benefit I reap from using Linux is in choice of programming languages.
07:09 < TuringDevice> For me it is important to have color swatches I can set and use in multiple programs… and be able to pick colors from multiple methods. That and things like smart layers and multiple masks and the like.
07:10 < sauvin> Yeah, I wouldn't mind having multiple masks. :D
07:10 < TuringDevice> sauvin: macOS has many of the same though some are tweaked… like the differences I find in sed.
07:10 < TuringDevice> Which can be frustrating. But I largely use the oh-so-popular and amazing AppleScript.
07:10 < TuringDevice> It is seen as the best and most powerful language ever. :)
07:11 < sauvin> I would beg to differ. :D
07:11 < sauvin> As for sed, your basic userland comes from FreeBSD 4.2, iirc, and it's, um, "antiquated".
07:12 < TuringDevice> It is good for people who are clueless and allows hooks into many GUI programs, but, yeah… it has its weaknesses, to say the least.
07:12 < TuringDevice> I think the need to specify no backup data is macOS specific. And it is fine, I suppose, just different.
07:13 < TuringDevice> Means I look things up, though, and sometimes they do not work.
07:14 < koala_man> if you forget, sed -i -e cmd file  works on both platforms
07:14 < koala_man> (but leaves ugly *-e files)
07:14 < fscale> Which distro comes with Unity? Like the distro that has sworn to stay with Unity no matter what & has it's latest version with unity unlike Ubuntu
07:17 < sauvin> fscale, please. I just ate.
07:17 < DildoSwaggins> lmao
07:18 < fscale> sauvin: I don't get that linux joke, can you explain? I actually have a really good reason to use unity not found in anything else.
07:19 < sauvin> I'll buy that. I'm not asking, and please don't tell. Let me google a bit.
07:19 < TuringDevice> koala_man — you can get rid of the e file with sed -i '' files
07:19 < TuringDevice> I think
07:19 < TuringDevice> BRB
07:19 < b> Unity can be installed in Ubuntu 18.04
07:20 < koala_man> TuringDevice: no, then it starts failing on GNU again
07:20 < DildoSwaggins> installing Unity w/ Ubuntu is like preferring to have your food come w/ spit in it
07:21 < sauvin> DildoSwaggins, right principle, wrong image. It's like preferring to have your food come with [something unspeakably disgusting] in it.
07:21 < sauvin> fscale, looks like it might be an uphill battle: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/4h93ek/why_is_unity_not_available_for_other_linux/
07:22 < Elladan> I wanted to like Unity, what with the menu bar being on top. If only it had appeared when you press the right mouse button, like my precious AmigaOS. But no, so it is dead to me.
07:22  * DildoSwaggins rolls on floor amused
07:22 < fscale> I'm pretty confused. I know Unity comes with certain DPI settings in the Settings app I found in Ubuntu 16.04. If I install Unity in 18.04, the settings still remain the same as old & I don't find that Unity specific setting. Is there something else I have to do?
07:23 < DildoSwaggins> ok, all jokes aside
07:24 < DildoSwaggins> fscale, to the best of my knowledge, if I remember correctly, Ubuntu has officially stopped supporting Unity
07:24 < DildoSwaggins> so finding Unity support may not be the easiest thing to find going forward
07:24 < DildoSwaggins> but, may I ask WHY you prefer Unity?
07:24 < Elladan> Isn't Unity technically just a really wonky plugin module for Compiz plus a huge number of gnome lib and config hacks?
07:25 < TuringDevice> koala_man — yeah, if you get rid of the e files on macOS it does not work on Linux. For my needs it is not that big of a deal OTHER than that when I look things up I have to adjust the for macOS
07:25 < brunobronosky> I'm trying to fdisk a drive and get `Re-reading the partition table failed.: Device or resource busy` when I try to write the partition. Any ideas how to fix this? I've rebooted.
07:25 < TuringDevice> I do not have much running on both.
07:25 < DildoSwaggins> brunobronosky, make sure the disk is unmounted
07:25 < brunobronosky> it is.
07:26 < DildoSwaggins> sucks... i have no more ideas
07:26 < DildoSwaggins> i'd just cry
07:26 < DildoSwaggins> and then look into it on google
07:26 < TuringDevice> In my app folder there was still an -e file. Just fixed that. :)
07:26 < brunobronosky> Google has nothing
07:26 < Elladan> brunobronosky, usually when that happens, the partition table was edited and will appear right after reboot.
07:26 < DildoSwaggins> <Elladan> Isn't Unity technically just a really wonky plugin module for Compiz plus a huge number of gnome lib and config hacks?
07:27 < DildoSwaggins> sounds about right...
07:27 < DildoSwaggins> some sort of abhorrent construct of tech
07:27 < Elladan> brunobronosky, did you check the table after reboot to see if your edits took?
07:27 < fscale> DildoSwaggins: Look at this https://i.stack.imgur.com/Xv24C.png Specifically scale for menu & title bars. This is available in Ubuntu 16.04 with Unity. If I install Unity in 18.04, I don't see this setting.
07:27 < brunobronosky> well, Google results are all from people who needed to umount.
07:27  * DildoSwaggins wrote one of them
07:27 < brunobronosky> Elladan I don't want to say I did without hearing how you think I should.
07:28 < brunobronosky> DildoSwaggins trolls the long game.
07:29 < Elladan> brunobronosky, technically what that error is saying is that it wrote the partition table, and then got an error applying it to the running system.
07:29 < sauvin> fscale, have you looked at KDE recently? Its desktop is configurable up the wazoo.
07:29 < Elladan> brunobronosky, so what you'd typically do is issue the write command, get that error, reboot, and then just pull up fdisk and see that your partition change did happen.
07:29 < DildoSwaggins> I'm not completely useless: I love laughing at your troubles, but once I simmer down, I will try to help you.
07:30 < fscale> sauvin: I'll have a look at it. I already have it's ISO.
07:30 < sauvin> fscale, what distro are you running now?
07:30 < fscale> Ubuntu 16.04
07:31 < brunobronosky> Hmmm. okay then I'll try to write it as something other than "linux raid autodetect" which is what it is and what I'm trying to write. So I can see if any changes are happening.
07:32 < DildoSwaggins> <fscale> DildoSwaggins: Look at this https://i.stack.imgur.com/Xv24C.png Specifically scale for menu & title bars. This is available in Ubuntu 16.04 with Unity. If I install Unity in 18.04, I don't see this setting.
07:32 < DildoSwaggins> there are a few other things that could cause this besides the version of Unity that you're using
07:33 < sauvin> fscale, for you, I'd recommend apt-get install kde. Use what comes with your distro because doing otherwise may confuse your package manager, which can be a whole universe of woe.
07:34 < well_laid_lawn> one phone or other os can reduce my wifi speeds to nearly nothing. How can I make linux more agressive on the network?
07:34 < DildoSwaggins> brunobronosky, can you do a debug boot?
07:35 < brunobronosky> Hmmm this is on EC2, I'm not really sure how that would be done.
07:35 < brunobronosky> @DildoSwaggins
07:35 < DildoSwaggins> well_laid_lawn, perhaps modify your wifi settins to change the channel your wifi is broadcasted on
07:36 < DildoSwaggins> brunobronosky, there must be a way, which distro did you say you were on again?
07:36 < well_laid_lawn> DildoSwaggins:  everyone uses the one router...
07:36 < DildoSwaggins> Ubuntu?
07:36 < brunobronosky> DildoSwaggins ubuntu
07:37 < fscale> DildoSwaggins: I'm not an expert to find out what is the problem. I've already learnt more than I should have in this process of finding a distro that supports HiDPI. I could write a blog about all the things I've learnt so far because there is no simple solution to this. sauvin: Me just install Kubuntu.
07:37 < fscale> with KDE
07:38 < DildoSwaggins> well_laid_lawn, I see, so you want your device to have more priority over others on the same wifi?
07:38 < DildoSwaggins> to be honest, I've no idea
07:38 < Elladan> well_laid_lawn, you might try using 5g instead of 2.4g networking, possibly with channel width changes.
07:38 < DildoSwaggins> get a custom USB wifi receiver perhaps
07:39 < well_laid_lawn> just the same would bbe ok
07:39 < DildoSwaggins> brunobronosky, have you double checked that you have the proprietary drivers installed for your video card?
07:39 < Elladan> There are a huge number of possible things you could change regarding your wifi settings, but it's hard to deduce what the actual problem is.
07:41 < DildoSwaggins> oops, my bad brunobronosky, that was meant for fscale
07:41 < sauvin> well_laid_lawn, the folks in ##networking may have some ideas.
07:42 < Elladan> well_laid_lawn, another potential thing to try is turning off power save mode in your wifi driver. Again, these are basically just random ideas.
07:42 < brunobronosky> Step 1 to being satisfied with Linux, don't use a video card. Step 2 don't install a GUI desktop.
07:42 < DildoSwaggins> and if you must, stick w/ something that makes a priority of supporting them
07:42 < sauvin> Step 3: ignore brunobronosky. I've been using KDE on Linux for many years on cheap Walmart laptops with no issue.
07:42 < well_laid_lawn> cheers
07:43 < DildoSwaggins> I feel something that doesn't get enough love is OpenSUSE
07:43 < DildoSwaggins> i've never seen something work so well out of the box
07:43 < Elladan> I find Cinnamon perfectly acceptable.
07:43 < Elladan> I also found Gnome 2, Mate, KDE, and XFCE perfectly acceptable.
07:43 < Elladan> Gnome 3 seems OK too.
07:43 < Elladan> On the not-acceptable side, MacOS.
07:43 < brunobronosky> I've been using SSH since 1997 and I pull my hair out every time I try a GUI.
07:43 < cmj> i don't use any of that, also acceptable ;p
07:44 < phinxy> brunobronosky• one of us!
07:44 < LinuxTekkie> I used to use OpenSUSE but left it back when Manjaro was first starting to pop up.
07:45  * brunobronosky was telling kids to get off his lawn before it was cool
07:46  * fscale hasn't used the _/me_ for quite a while.
07:49  * fscale__ should try changing their name for snark
07:49  * brunobronosky likes to have fun with _/me_
07:56 < DildoSwaggins> LinuxTekkie, install OpenSUSE minimum, and then install the X server you want... I've come to prefer MATE (no homo)
07:56 < Elladan> brunobronosky, I used to switch to just using VT's instead of X every few months because it was more pleasant, but haven't done that in a long time.
07:56 < DildoSwaggins> YAST was very quickly earned a place in my tiny bitter heart
07:57 < DildoSwaggins> has*
07:57 < jim> hmm... this discussion of dists had potential to become a war, but it didn't...
07:58 < LinuxTekkie> DildoSwaggins: I always have been a KDE guy, granted I have hardware easily able to use it.  But when I was first getting used to Linux, YAST was a life saver
07:58 < DildoSwaggins> LinuxTekkie, you can install KDE in any distro... including opensuse
07:58 < brunobronosky> jim the enemy of my enemy is my friend. We all have a common enemy. It just bought github.
07:58 < DildoSwaggins> KDE is just a graphical interface
07:58 < LinuxTekkie> DildoSwaggins: yeah I know that, but I prefer Manjaro
07:59 < jim> it's not just that, lots of people in the discussion and they kept cool
08:00 < brunobronosky> we're living in chill times
08:00  * DildoSwaggins has no experience w/ Manjaro, but power to you
08:00 < Elladan> If you'd like I could try to drum up some ire for vi and talk about how emacs is so great or something.
08:01 < Elladan> Like, when I type "M-x psychoanalyze-pinhead" in vi, it does nothing, man. This cannot stand.
08:01 < jim> no, let's not do that :)
08:01 < DildoSwaggins> brunobronosky, you can say that again :) what a time to be alive
08:01 < brunobronosky> dogs and cats living together
08:02 < Elladan> To be honest I use both emacs and vim all the time.
08:03 < DildoSwaggins> Elladan, that's heresy
08:03 < Elladan> I'm an atheist.
08:03 < sauvin> Using EMACS can be a lot like playing twister with your fingers.
08:03 < DildoSwaggins> linux is the religion
08:03 < azarus> my pinky hurts thinking about emacs ;P
08:03 < DildoSwaggins> and you have been found guilty of corrupting the mind of the youths
08:06 < Elladan> I used to work at a place where we primarily hacked the FreeBSD kernel for our job. Almost everyone ran Linux. It was amusing.
08:07 < jim> Elladan, what were some of the things you did to the kernel?
08:09 < jim> I guess on emacs and vi you can reassign the key commands
08:10 < Elladan> jim, we were maintaining a distributed filesystem, which required massive changes to the underlying OS (we paid for / implemented significant pieces of the FreeBSD SMP modernization back then).
08:11 < micrex22> Elladan so what year did FreeBSD get SMP?
08:12  * DildoSwaggins cant tell if legit question or a test
08:13 < micrex22> I am just curious
08:13 < Elladan> micrex22, it was implemented in pieces over more than 10 years. As the Linux support was, too.
08:13 < micrex22> If it was a test I'd be like "what is the best OS ever released?"
08:14 < Elladan> micrex22, the way you implement SMP in a uniproc OS is generally that you start by throwing a giant lock around almost everything in the kernel, so user apps can run concurrently as long as they don't make syscalls, but it all serializes in the kernel.
08:14 < Elladan> LOL clearly the best OS is the command software for the Apollo Guidance Computer :-D
08:15 < Elladan> micrex22, anyway, once you do that giant lock hack, your OS "supports" SMP, but performance is terrible. Then you start untangling it subsystem by subsystem so different pieces of the kernel have reasonable locking models. Eventually the giant lock disappears as everything is modernized.
08:19 < Elladan> Both FreeBSD and Linux are done in that respect now, but from I dunno 1996-2010 or so they were both being fixed up (Linux was always far ahead).
08:19 < azarus> ... and OpenBSD is still in the process of doing it :<
08:20 < Elladan> Are they? I mean are they even trying? I wasn't sure. :-)
08:20 < azarus> They are! They just want to do it right ;P
08:21 < hexnewbie> It's a really bad OS. Worse power management than Linux - if your oxygen tanks exploded due to a shortcircuit, and you go on battery, you'd have to turn the computer off because the OS doesn't implement simple idling or frequency scaling to preserve the battery.
08:21 < azarus> hexnewbie: are you talking about OpenBSD with that? :o
08:21 < Elladan> SMP is a big source of very subtle security bugs, so one might imagine just not implementing it at all if your only goal was security.
08:22 < hexnewbie> azarus: Apollo Guidance Computer. But if I had to guess, I assume OpenBSD didn't give great battery life either, judging by Linux's :)
08:22 < azarus> hexnewbie: ah, OpenBSD has OK battery life in my experience. But the Apollo Copmuter is a different story, for sure ;)
08:23 < hexnewbie> Besides, Theo probably thinks some of power saving / suspend feature of devices are side channels and security holes, so he has them deliberately disabled :P
08:23 < azarus> (just need to enable apmd in OpenBSD, and then battery is perfectly fine)
08:23 < azarus> no, he actively works on apmd too, afaik
08:23 < brunobronosky> I run RPis off batteries. I really care about power management.
08:24 < azarus> in fact, I spoke with Theo about flaky suspend, he managed to fix it right away
08:24 < Elladan> hexnewbie, hey now, AGC managed to land people on the moon during a hardware overload condition. Linux is cool but it's never done that. ;-)
08:24 < hexnewbie> Your neighbour can tell if you're moving the mouse even over an encrypted link because it stops transmitting when it suspends
08:24 < DildoSwaggins> my neighbor is pain in my anoos
08:25 < officialsandeep8> Set /umode +R
08:26 < Elladan> There's an Apollo simulator now that attempts to run a cycle-correct AGC emulator using the original software, so you too can experience a master alarm error when you forget to turn off a radar.
08:28 < Elladan> My neighbor can also probably tell if I'm moving the mouse or not based on me having to rfkill bluetooth cycle a few times as it fails to reconnect :p *sigh*
08:30 < stevwills> anyone here use linux since it's inception?
08:30 < sensibel> Is there a way to see the terminals running by remote users that are connected via ssh?
08:30 < micrex22> stevwills I mean if you go back that far enough, you have a good portion of people using OS/2 back then
08:31 < DildoSwaggins> who -a
08:31 < micrex22> on x86, anyways
08:31 < stevwills> micrex22:  haha lols
08:31 < Elladan> stevwills, nah but I used it before 1.0 IIRC.
08:32 < Elladan> I vaguely remember having to switch to ELF.
08:32 < micrex22> stevwills I have some T4x ThinkPads that don't have Linux GPU support due to ATI retiring the old propretiary drivers--and obviously XP is a no-no... so I just leave them with OS/2
08:33 < micrex22> I suppose if I swapped the mobos with Intel GPU ones it would be better for linux support
08:34 < Elladan> I'd imagine they're usable with generic VESA support or whatever.
08:34 < micrex22> vgalib? :p
08:34 < micrex22> svgalib*
08:34 < stevwills> micrex22:  i was wonder what linux was like before it became free software. was linux always merged with gnu software or was there something people used before that was different. back in the day when thorvalts said it was just a hobby and not something pro like gnu. i dont know if you guys understand my question but anyways
08:35 < stevwills> micrex22:  wasnt os/2 unix based??
08:35 < micrex22> stevwills Linus just did it for selfish reasons
08:35 < azarus> stevwills: no, OS/2 was not UNIX basedUN
08:35 < azarus> based*
08:35 < MrElendig> stevwills: gnu was first btw
08:36 < hexnewbie> You can still purchase a very old computer, and try to dualboot Linux 0.01 alongside OS/2 1.2 :)
08:36 < MrElendig> by almost a decade
08:36 < micrex22> stevwills some things about OS/2 conform to some unix things, like ifconfig
08:36 < hexnewbie> Then you can pretend you were running it since its inception.
08:36 < micrex22> (which has now been replaced, catually)
08:37 < ironus> Good morning everyone
08:37 < Elladan> Linux was always free software.
08:37 < MrElendig> Elladan: no
08:37 < MrElendig> it had a sort of kinda open license to begin with
08:37 < hexnewbie> Elladan: First year or two it wasn't
08:37 < stevwills> Elladan:  that is not true. the kernel was proprietary at fist
08:37 < stevwills> which is my question
08:37 < DildoSwaggins> damn, tough crowd
08:37 < DildoSwaggins> @Elladan
08:38 < stevwills> how was linux before  it became free. like was it always merged with the gnu software
08:38 < hexnewbie> I believe the original proprietary kernel was also relicensed under the GPL (correct me if I'm wrong), so technically all Linux releases *are* free software
08:38 < micrex22> afaik it was just on Linus' personal 386
08:38 < micrex22> with nothing to do with GNU at the time
08:39 < stevwills> hexnewbie: something like that yes
08:39 < MrElendig> https://web.archive.org/web/20070819045030/http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/Historic/old-versions/RELNOTES-0.12
08:39 < MrElendig> 0.12 was the first version with a free software license
08:39 < Elladan> Free software != GPL
08:40 < MrElendig> Elladan: his first license was not free software since it prevented commercial redistribution
08:40 < hexnewbie> https://cdn.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/Historic/ All the release notes are in old-versions
08:40 < MrElendig> amongst other things
08:40 < DildoSwaggins> Linux was always free
08:40 < Elladan> AIUI version 0.01 shipped with gnu software in userspace.
08:40 < MrElendig> DildoSwaggins: free as in beer yes
08:40 < DildoSwaggins> it implemented Unix tools that didn't yet have the license to be freely distributed
08:40 < stevwills> DildoSwaggins:  not gpl free
08:40 < MrElendig> DildoSwaggins: free as in free software no
08:40 < DildoSwaggins> Linux != Unix
08:41 < DildoSwaggins> (in this regard)
08:41 < stevwills> DildoSwaggins:  so like bsd for example
08:41 < DildoSwaggins> sure, perhaps
08:42 < hexnewbie> Elladan: From the RELNOTES MrElendig linked, Linus removed a ‘you may not distribute it for money’ condition, meaning it was not either Free software or Open Source, pertaining to their corresponding definitions
08:42 < MrElendig> in the beginning linux was mainly used with the minix userland too
08:42 < brettgilio> Who knows the freenode group for the C language?
08:43 < azarus> brettgilio: ##c
08:43 < stevwills> MrElendig: minix userland???? what do you mean how did that work
08:43 < brettgilio> azarus: thanks
08:44 < Elladan> You should understand that while the FSF predates Linux, a lot of the specific distinctions around "Open Source" and "Free software" are things that people defined in the mid '90s.
08:44 < MrElendig> he began writing linux on a minix machine, so it was sort of natural
08:44 < stevwills> ok
08:44 < MrElendig> the GNU project started in 83 iirc
08:44 < Elladan> ... so largely this conversation is kind of bizarre. A noncommercial license was certainly freeware in the sense most people understood it in 1991.
08:44 < micrex22> azarus good thing it's #c / #cc rather than c# ;)
08:45 < hexnewbie> brettgilio: For future reference, one can use the following to find such channel (as "C" is notoriously difficult to search for): /msg alis list ##c* -min 150
08:45  * azarus remebers having to program c#
08:45 < azarus> ugh
08:45 < stevwills> MrElendig: so did he like swap the minix kernel???
08:47 < micrex22> no
08:47 < DildoSwaggins> yeah, he swapped it when no one was looking
08:47 < micrex22> there is no minix kernel code in the linux kernel
08:47 < lilltiger> brettgilio: Do not crosspost, asking the same questions in multiple channels at the same time is frown upon.
08:48 < MrElendig> doesn't have to have minix kernel code to be able to run minix software
08:48 < stevwills> ok so he ran minix binaries over the limux kernelÉ
08:48 < DildoSwaggins> lilltiger, by who? AFAIK it's the way to do it on IRC
08:48 < stevwills> ?
08:48 < MrElendig> software written for minix yes
08:48 < brunobronosky> when using mdadm to make raid arrays, it seems that you can do it with drives that either are or are not partitioned. What's the difference?
08:48 < brettgilio> lilltiger: Since when? i've been using IRC for nearly 5 years, and you're the first to tell me this.
08:49 < MrElendig> if he used the binaries or he rebuilt the software only he knows
08:49 < MrElendig> brettgilio: since 1992
08:49 < lilltiger> brettgilio: ^^
08:49 < MrElendig> 1988 actually
08:50 < MrElendig> reembered the year wrong
08:50 < MrElendig> remembered*
08:50 < DildoSwaggins> pffff, just become some dude spammed usenet doesnt make it the same on IRC
08:50 < DildoSwaggins> asking a legit question in more than 1 channel is perfectly kosher if you ask me
08:50 < DildoSwaggins> it's the reason even reddit allows crossposts... somethings transcend one subject
08:51 < ironus> I agree. Different channels means getting different eyes on the same question.
08:51 < Elladan> I'd say it's bad, if the question is off-topic in many of them.
08:52 < stevwills> so linux  was always bundled with gnu software  i guess ??? even in the older distros. i guess  the only people who know are the one who compiled the kernel back in the day???
08:52 < BeforeClick> any offtopic question is bad, that doesn't make the statement that crossposting is OK if the topic matches wrong
08:52 < brunobronosky> but off topic is bad whether it's 1 or many, Elladan
08:52 < stevwills> oh are my questions off topic???
08:52 < BeforeClick> said who?
08:52 < brunobronosky> BeforeClick was BeforeBruno on that one.
08:53 < Elladan> Yes. My point was that if you want to cross-msg, and it's on-topic, fine. If it's off-topic, don't.
08:54 < BeforeClick> si there any app under linux that could stream audio (e.g. mp3) to an echo dot?
08:54 < BeforeClick> I know about plex and some other but I'd rather have a local solution, so no cloud :)
08:55 < DildoSwaggins> a shoutcast server?
08:55 < DildoSwaggins> damn it's been a while since i recommended that
08:56 < DildoSwaggins> plex is probably a better choice
08:56 < BeforeClick> hmm and you recon an echo dot can read that ? or is it a guess for now?
08:56 < ironus> BeforeClick: In my experience there aren't a lot of options for streaming through an echo locally. If you find something I would be interested to see it.
08:56 < stevwills> so is there a way to try linux v0.12??
08:56 < BeforeClick> no plex! I don't want to touch any onikne resources
08:57 < MrElendig> sure, grab some 200 year old hardware
08:57 < BeforeClick> online
08:57 < ironus> plex can be local
08:57 < micrex22> stevwills well you'd need a 386
08:57 < MrElendig> ask linux what he ran it on back then
08:57 < MrElendig> linus*
08:57 < BeforeClick> ironus: you still need a sunscription
08:57 < Elladan> You should be able to run it using qemu or something, if a VM doesn't work.
08:57 < BeforeClick> and it's talking home
08:57 < micrex22> mrelendig Linus had a 386
08:57 < stevwills> micrex22: a vm would not work?
08:57 < MrElendig> micrex22: the question is which chipset, hdd controller etc....
08:58 < MrElendig> since it had drivers for basically nothing but what linus ran
08:58 < micrex22> Just PS/2 it and use an MCA-based machine
08:58 < ironus> BeforeClick: do you mean like a user name? i've never paid for plex
08:58 < BeforeClick> ironus: I installed it yesterday and all the interesting functions seem to be locked till you sign in
08:59 < DildoSwaggins> "not that they haven't asked... i've just never paid them"
08:59 < stevwills> BeforeClick:  plex is actually great
08:59 < stevwills> you dont have to pay  for plex
08:59 < DildoSwaggins> plex is like the winrar of proprietary software
08:59 < Elladan> Looks like 0.11 works on qemu, http://gunkies.org/wiki/File:Linux_0.11_on_Qemu.jpg
08:59 < DildoSwaggins> the free version gets the job done
08:59 < ironus> DildoSwaggins: lol . At least plex pass gives you some extra features and early updates
08:59 < BeforeClick> guys, I don't want to use any tool that requires subscriptions
09:00 < DildoSwaggins> BeforeClick, it's free-mium
09:00 < DildoSwaggins> you dont need to pay for anything
09:00 < DildoSwaggins> you can use it just fine for free
09:00 < DildoSwaggins> if you ever decide that you want MORE features than come free, then you can pay
09:00 < DildoSwaggins> but you dont need to
09:00 < ironus> BeforeClick: I don't think you are going to have much luck with something that interfaces with the echo.
09:01 < BeforeClick> DildoSwaggins: no you can't get to the functions they are locked till you buy a subscription. I installed it yesterday and had a very close look.
09:01 < ironus> last time I checked there was literally nothing and some hacky way to do it with plex
09:01 < ironus> BeforeClick: You just need a plex username. But locally I don't even know if you need that.
09:02 < BeforeClick> well I had hopped that someone here had bested echo yet
09:02 < stevwills> so where can i download linux 0.12 ish to see what it felt like back then???
09:02 < DildoSwaggins> you came to a linux channel to find people who voluntarily have a device that listens to their every conversation?
09:03 < DildoSwaggins> keep fishing
09:03 < ironus> BeforeClick: I think you could do it with spotify + local music
09:05 < Elladan> stevwills, for your amusement, here's 4.12 in your browser. :-)   https://bellard.org/jslinux/
09:06 < DildoSwaggins> "oh it's got windows 2000, let's try tha" ... and it's infected w/ blaster
09:07 < stevwills> DildoSwaggins: i have the original windows 2000 installer cd
09:08 < DildoSwaggins> it's probably also infected w/ blaster
09:08 < DildoSwaggins> lol
09:08 < Elladan> Hey, as long as it doesn't come up with any network access..
09:08 < DildoSwaggins> it's crazy how it became impossible to do a clean install and updates w/o being infected during the process
09:08 < DildoSwaggins> no network access = no updates = it's inevitable
09:08 < Elladan> stevwills, you can dig around in here if you like https://mirrors.edge.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/Historic/
09:09 < DildoSwaggins> i'm sure the threat vector today is nowhere near as large as it was back then, since way less people use win xp and below
09:09 < stevwills> Elladan: thx
09:10 < Elladan> Let's be fair here, behind a decent Linux firewall it's fine.
09:10 < DildoSwaggins> unless a device on your network is infected
09:10 < Elladan> I mean it had better be, lots of expensive equipment like MRI scanners and the like are running on that thing :-)
09:10 < Elladan> That's why you put it on its own VLAN come on now.
09:11 < BeforeClick> ironus: yes I know but that is again going through a cloud subscription
09:12 < Elladan> Old terrible operating systems never tie, they just get walled off behind layer after layer of networking gunk until they're so deep they can only see the sky through a tiny portal with 18 inches of armor glass.
09:12 < Elladan> er, die.
09:13 < DildoSwaggins> I remember like yesterday, before the RPC DCOM exploit, and the blaster worm that exploited it, NETBIOS used to be open across networks
09:13 < DildoSwaggins> ports 135,139,445
09:15 < DildoSwaggins> BeforeClick, have you tried Kodi (formerly XBMC)?
09:15 < Elladan> Some day, IPv4 will die (LOL) and these old computers will be cordoned off in some weird little archaic network box with a VPN tunnel to other weird archaic computers in the next building. :-)
09:15 < DildoSwaggins> IPv4 wont die
09:15 < DildoSwaggins> just like how there are still 20m subscribers of AOL
09:16 < BeforeClick> DildoSwaggins: no not yet. like said I was hoping someone here had a working setup already else I'll just have to do some more diggning
09:16 < Elladan> Please, let me be optimistic here.
09:16 < DildoSwaggins> there's an inverse relationship between people moving off of IPv4, and space available in IPv4
09:16 < Elladan> I'm predicting that IPv4 will die before humanity does.
09:16 < Elladan> Let me have my dreams.
09:16 < DildoSwaggins> direct relationship, actually
09:16 < micrex22> Elladan what about VGA?
09:17 < BeforeClick> IP4 is not oing to die till the last networking device, server and host speaks IP6 flawlessly.
09:17 < DildoSwaggins> Elladan, define "humanity," do Homo <what ever comes after us> count?
09:17 < micrex22> Elladan also OS/2 doesn't yet have IPv6 so... I certainly hop IPv4 sticks around for awhile yet :p
09:17 < micrex22> hope*
09:18 < BeforeClick> I know some cafe places that have serios issues, you can't reach half of the web because they are to stupid to implement it properly
09:18 < Elladan> Yes, sentient AIs count as long as they consider themselves humans.
09:18 < DildoSwaggins> we still have i386 machines running critical infrastructure software
09:19 < BeforeClick> and then there are voyager 1 and 2
09:19 < BeforeClick> and they are not alone
09:20 < micrex22> well at least the i386/486/586 aren't affected by meltdown :p
09:20 < Elladan> i386 is entirely compatible with IPv6 come on now.
09:20  * DildoSwaggins prints this conversation on his ribbon printer via a serial cable 
09:21 < stevwills> is amd actually affected by meltdown/spectre?
09:21 < Elladan> Yes.
09:21 < Elladan> Well, not meltdown.
09:21 < stevwills> just spectre?
09:21 < Elladan> But yes to spectre.
09:21 < stevwills> hum
09:22 < stevwills> which one is worst?
09:22 < micrex22> they're all pretty bad
09:22 < micrex22> but meltdown I think would be considered he worst
09:22 < Elladan> Spectre pretty much affects every CPU with speculative execution. However, it hasn't really been shown to be a serious risk the way meltdown is.
09:22 < DildoSwaggins> asking what's worst is like asking if it stabs you in the heart or the face
09:22 < Elladan> ... and how difficult it is to exploit varies greatly by CPU model.
09:23 < stevwills> what does meltdown do?
09:23 < Elladan> meltdown is by far the worst.
09:23 < Elladan> Meltdown lets an unprivileged user process read all of kernel memory at will.
09:23 < stevwills> thats pretty bad
09:23 < Elladan> (Since the kernel maps all memory, that's "all memory")
09:23 < micrex22> Elladan I've exploited the FDIV bug on my P60 system: https://i.imgur.com/VrCRQiz.jpg
09:24 < micrex22> returning the wrong arithmetic :p
09:24 < Elladan> micrex22, nice. I wonder if qemu can faithfully emulate that.
09:24 < bartmon> stevwills, speculatively executes commands on branch predictions without memory access protection. such as what Elladan wrote, an attacker may read kernel memory from userspace
09:24 < stevwills> Elladan: haha worth a try
09:24 < bartmon> well, i type slow
09:25 < DildoSwaggins> me too, which is why i hired a stenographer
09:25 < stevwills> Elladan: could you theoretically use the exploit to read kernel memory of a host from a vm?
09:26 < Elladan> Spectre also uses speculative execution as a side-channel attack, but in a more subtle way that can attack sandboxed processes and via IPC. However, the details are extremely process/processor/etc. specific.
09:27 < Elladan> stevwills, meltdown? Absolutely.
09:28 < stevwills> Elladan: that is quite dangerous for virtual machine servers
09:29 < Elladan> stevwills, this is why every major cloud host went absolutely crazy with overtime patching it.
09:29 < stevwills> i bet
09:29 < micrex22> bartmon a proper keyboard will enable you to type faster ;) https://i.imgur.com/qx7Lfig.jpg
09:29 < DildoSwaggins> "your system is about to restart to apply an update because... well fuck you"
09:29 < stevwills> and they where quite pissed that they lost performance with the patch if i recall
09:30 < DildoSwaggins> they forced everyone to install the updates
09:30 < micrex22> Microsoft forcefully restarted Azure VMs
09:30 < micrex22> yeah
09:30 < DildoSwaggins> Microsoft even deterred from their usual patch Tuesday cycle
09:30 < micrex22> Azure patrons were pissed--but that's what they get for choosing microsoft
09:30 < micrex22> You'd have to be a moron to use Azure, imo
09:30 < DildoSwaggins> to be fair though, it affected the CPU, not the OS
09:31 < micrex22> but hey... that's just my opinion (and I deal with that shitty product a lot)
09:31 < stevwills> Microsoft and there habit to force rebott
09:31 < Elladan> Everyone force-restarted VMs.
09:31 < stevwills> isnt azure no based off linix
09:31 < stevwills> linux
09:31 < micrex22> Elladan stevwills well Microsoft had to release a patch for the patch
09:31 < micrex22> because they made their meltdown patch with a bug
09:31 < micrex22> that made it even WORSE than meltdown
09:31 < micrex22> lol
09:31 < micrex22> so... you need to patch the patch on Windows 7
09:32 < Elladan> Microsoft's meltdown/spectre patches were a disaster, due to their very poor control over their platform code base.
09:32 < stevwills> OMG
09:32 < micrex22> elladan in some cases win32 can't be fully 'patched'
09:32 < revel> stevwills: No, Azure runs Linux as well.
09:32 < micrex22> revel don't know why you'd want to run linux in azure
09:32 < stevwills> revel: that is what i meant
09:33 < Elladan> However, every cloud host restarted the world, not just Azure.
09:33 < revel> Well, you can.
09:33 < micrex22> that's like running Linux on Windows 10
09:33 < DildoSwaggins> because Azure and linux are not mutually exclusive
09:33 < DildoSwaggins> infact Microsoft has really come to embrace linux, opensource, and python especially
09:33 < micrex22> not quite
09:33 < micrex22> you can't go from saying linux is cancer to
09:33 < micrex22> "WE LOVE LINUX!"
09:33 < DildoSwaggins> big data and linux go together
09:33 < tx> micrex22: they never said linux was cancer tho
09:33 < DildoSwaggins> python is the language of choice for most data scientists
09:33 < lilltiger> more "exploit" than "embrace" ;)
09:33 < revel> It's a cloud provider, it has to provide Linux to be relevant.
09:34 < micrex22> tx it was endorsed by gates for sure
09:34 < micrex22> after ballmer shat it out
09:34 < stevwills> anyways azure X(
09:34 < tx> Azure critically depends on Linux to operate (their network layer uses linux)
09:34 < tx> Microsoft aren't all about 'dat Windows ecosystem any more
09:34 < DildoSwaggins> you have to understand how the times have changed though
09:34 < tx> there are better money earners for them now.
09:34 < micrex22> tx and microsoft uses stolen code and does not release it
09:34 < DildoSwaggins> from software developers trying to earn their fair share
09:34 < micrex22> well their relevancy is heavily dependent on Windows
09:35 < DildoSwaggins> vs community projects that accomplish a great deal of the same thing
09:35 < micrex22> that's why they're trying to buy out linkedin and github
09:35 < tx> micrex22: to become less dependant on Windows, yes
09:35 < micrex22> and they're going to try to get into the phone market... again
09:35 < DildoSwaggins> "dont copy that floppy"
09:35 < tx> but that's fine, what's wrong with that?
09:35 < revel> Yes, trying...
09:35 < micrex22> and then they're trying to get windows to become cross platform with polaris (with win32 to be eventually secluded in a compatiblity layer)
09:36 < micrex22> but I tihnk they're misunderstanding WHY people run windows
09:36 < micrex22> nobody in their (sanity) runs windows for enjoyment
09:36 < micrex22> they run it TO run win32 applications and nothing else
09:36 < DildoSwaggins> it's because it's ubiquitous
09:36 < micrex22> soon as that is retired, it will be a wholly irrelevant OS
09:36 < DildoSwaggins> but MS eventually realized, just like the music industry did
09:36 < DildoSwaggins> that not all pirates are stealing your profits
09:37 < stevwills> i wonder if windows will ever become linux
09:37 < DildoSwaggins> and many people who bootlegg, eventually turn into paying customers
09:37 < DildoSwaggins> which is why they gave windows 10 away for free intially
09:37 < tx> stevwills: maybe, if microsoft forked wine and made it more compatible ;)
09:37 < stevwills> tx: hahaha
09:37 < micrex22> dildoswaggins well bill gates even worked with the chinese government so that they could distributed pirated versions of XP
09:37 < DildoSwaggins> exactly micrex22
09:37 < micrex22> that's why... china uses XP so much
09:38 < tx> micrex22: says who
09:38 < DildoSwaggins> because they realize it's better to have people using your platform, and then try to monetize them further via microsales
09:38 < Elladan> I seem to recall that they actually wrote an in-house Win32 / unix compat layer once, when they ported IE to Solaris.
09:38 < Elladan> ... and then threw it away of course.
09:38 < micrex22> tx you're really that in disbelief you need me to pull up the source?
09:38 < kuri0> When I do gpg --default-new-key-algo rsa4096 --gen-key I get this error "gpg: Invalid option "--default-new-key-algo". I'm trying to generate a GPG key for signing git commits
09:38 < tx> micrex22: no, I'd just like the source anyway
09:38 < micrex22> kk give me a sec
09:38 < tx> ta
09:39 < DildoSwaggins> basically, if you use a pirated version of Windows, you may still buy MS office and other microsoft tools. but if you switch to linux, their out of luck
09:39 < micrex22> tx: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2007/jul/18/winningthrough
09:39 < tx> "you may still buy MS office"
09:39 < micrex22> "Today Gates openly concedes that tolerating piracy turned out to be Microsoft's best long-term strategy. That's why Windows is used on an estimated 90% of China's 120 million PCs. "It's easier for our software to compete with Linux when there's piracy than when there's not," Gates says. "
09:39 < tx> all of the pirate tools usually let you activate both though
09:39 < tx> "activate" :p
09:39 < DildoSwaggins> winrar
09:39 < peetaur2> not just that but you are not motivated to contribute to the compettitor to make it even more superior
09:40 < micrex22> dildoswaggins I remember that winrar did expire on windows 98 when I was downloading stuff from home of the underdog
09:40 < micrex22> back in the day...
09:40 < micrex22> but that was a pretty darn old version
09:40 < peetaur2> as in, not just about legit sales, but also the usual lock-in strategy
09:40 < DildoSwaggins> micrex22, you mean around the time i learned what keygens were
09:41 < stevwills> meh windows... id rather run linux than running a pirated version of windows
09:41 < micrex22> Elladan oh yeah check out my token ring NIC collection (a small portion): https://i.imgur.com/hVhOhLU.jpg https://i.imgur.com/HHgWjcy.jpg
09:42 < DildoSwaggins> it's easy to say that now stevwills
09:42 < micrex22> stevwills it's so easy to get a windows license for free, though
09:42 < DildoSwaggins> because linux has improved its driver support substantially
09:42 < Elladan> micrex22, so shiny.
09:42 < DildoSwaggins> but back in the day, the struggle was real
09:43 < micrex22> Elladan I'm trying to hunt down a 100 mbit token ring MAU, Madge made them near the end of their demise
09:43 < tx> Man driver support was shit-house this decade still
09:43 < tx> 2010 even
09:43 < stevwills> micrex22: go to college and they will  give you more liscences than you can use to assimilate you
09:43 < micrex22> I've got 100 mbit token ring NICs, but only 4/16 MAUs
09:43 < peetaur2> micrex22: hook me up with a hundred free licenses?
09:43 < Elladan> Driver support in general is unsolvable. No OS can ever have support for everything, because the hardware is constantly changing and doesn't obey any standard.
09:44 < micrex22> peetaur2 also you get a free license in your UEFI/BIOS via SLIC tables
09:44 < DildoSwaggins> Elladan, actually part of what changed was hardware manufacturers working to standardize things on their end
09:44 < tx> ^
09:44 < micrex22> Elladan Linux does a pretty good job considering microsoft paying out vendors
09:44 < Elladan> Linux driver support is more-or-less perfect if you buy a Linux computer, since they will pick supported components or fix the driver, just like manufacturers will do when they ship some other OS.
09:44 < tx> mid to late this decade, hardware vendors started getting their stuff together with each other
09:44 < stevwills> anyways legal or not id rather run linux
09:44 < micrex22> to NOT release certain drivers for linux and other platforms
09:45 < Elladan> DildoSwaggins, they really haven't.
09:45 < micrex22> stevwills you don't want to run the abominatiom that is windows 10?!?!?!
09:45 < micrex22> But I thought you liked seeing edge avertisements
09:45 < Elladan> The big difference now is more that Linux is pretty much the dominant OS, so manufacturers kind of have an incentive to actually support it now.
09:46 < micrex22> stevwills: https://i.imgur.com/PZK5Pzp.png the NUMBER OF ADS you see WON'T CHANGE, but they MAY BE less relevant to you
09:46 < stevwills> micrex22: ive had my share fit of windows garbage
09:46 < Elladan> You'll notice who maintains the Intel GPU drivers, for example.
09:46 < DildoSwaggins> Intel does
09:46 < DildoSwaggins> and they distribute drivers for both OS's
09:46 < micrex22> stevwills check out this error I got in windows 10 at work: https://i.imgur.com/Bkwbs9c.png
09:46 < stevwills> Elladan:  exactly what i meant
09:46 < micrex22> I.... didn't even HAVE diskette drive, let alone a diskette drive on E:\
09:47 < azarus> Intel also wrote ethernet drivers for Linux, BSD and whatever
09:47 < stevwills> lol diskette drive
09:47 < azarus> and also iwlwifi
09:47 < DildoSwaggins> my favorite error is during boot: "no keyboard found... press f2 to continue"
09:48 < micrex22> stevwills and then I was setting up this new PC, it kept WHINING INCESSANTLY to update onedrive so I caved in, and look what it said: https://i.imgur.com/JTi6WSq.png
09:48 < micrex22> classic microsoft
09:48 < stevwills> DildoSwaggins: yes that bios notification is so stupid who was the programmer so we can teach him a thing or two
09:48 < micrex22> the OS is so patched together, things are starting to unravel
09:48 < micrex22> between the old legacy 3.1 code
09:48 < micrex22> and weird things they've hacked in
09:48 < micrex22> it's a mess.
09:49 < azarus> wine is awesome
09:49 < stevwills> micrex22:  omg onedrive error is wierd
09:49 < micrex22> stevwills then check this one out: https://i.imgur.com/2vtdIIp.png
09:49 < micrex22> DID YOU KNOW THAT EDGE WAS BUILT FOR WINDOWS 10?!?!!
09:49 < micrex22> TRY OUT BILL GATES' *amazing* new browser!
09:49 < stevwills> ive seen that one
09:50 < Elladan> But for DildoSwaggins point, "hardware manufacturers working to standardize things on their end" absolutely not. There are a few things that are standard by necessity (SATA disks, some USB devices, etc.) but for the most part it's complete chaos.
09:50 < DildoSwaggins> it's that MS word paperclip all over again
09:50 < DildoSwaggins> "looks like you're looking for a browser"
09:50 < stevwills> im kinda sick of windows two.
09:50 < thatlizdude> When I generated my SSH key, I set a password on it, but it doesn't ask me for the password each time I try to login to my VPS - why?
09:50 < micrex22> stevwills did you see this one on the battery notice? https://news-cdn.softpedia.com/images/news2/windows-10-showing-notifications-to-move-users-from-chrome-and-firefox-to-edge-506452-2.jpg
09:50 < lilltiger> Clippy!! <3
09:50 < stevwills> i use to think the dog and the clip where cute when i was a kid
09:50 < azarus> thatlizdude: are you using ssh-agent?
09:50 < thatlizdude> nope
09:50 < peetaur2> thatlizdude: if you use ssh-agent, it can ask just once and remember it
09:50 < lilltiger> stevwills: Bob!
09:51 < azarus> thatlizdude: you might be, without realizing it
09:51 < DildoSwaggins> i was more of a bonsai buddy kinda guy
09:51 < micrex22> cortana is basically bob for windows 10
09:51 < lilltiger> Bob and Clippy!
09:51 < thatlizdude> just doing `ssh -i key user@ip`
09:51 < micrex22> bill gates was so excited when they could leverage some "bob" in windows 10
09:51 < DildoSwaggins> BonziBuddy*
09:51 < micrex22> I don't get why the guy is obsessed with it
09:51 < thatlizdude> and I don't think I'm using ssh-agent then
09:51 < azarus> thatlizdude: that might still use ssh-agent
09:51 < peetaur2> thatlizdude: does  ssh-add -l   list anything?
09:51 < tx> micrex22: failed attempt at company culture
09:51 < thatlizdude> peetaur2: nope
09:51 < DildoSwaggins> Elladan, fair enough, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree
09:52 < stevwills> micrex22: no i cant believe that windows has an advertisement to monitor chrome and advertise edge what a misuse of cpu cycles...
09:52 < peetaur2> thatlizdude: then I think that confirms you are not using ssh-agent
09:52 < thatlizdude> I even copied the key over to my Android phone and used my SSH client with the key, it didn't ask for a password of that key
09:52 < peetaur2> unless of course you tested it somewhere other than where your ssh logs in without a password/passphrase
09:52 < thatlizdude> well if the key is password protected shouldn't it ask?
09:52 < fscale> Can someone teach me how to use this script? https://github.com/kaueraal/run_scaled I'm trying to scale vlc to 1.25 & have made sure I have all the dependencies.
09:52 < peetaur2> thatlizdude: try connecting with ssh -v[vvvvvvv] to see what it's actually using
09:52 < fscale> do I need to download something from that github page?
09:53 < thatlizdude> what is that -v
09:53 < DildoSwaggins> verbose
09:53 < revel> -vvvvvvvv is "really verbose"
09:53 < peetaur2> -v is verbose, and -vv is more verbose, and -vv ....... is really really .... really .... verbose
09:53 < Elladan> fscale, ooof xpra. I don't predict success.
09:54 < thatlizdude> oh ok :D
09:54 < peetaur2> an old style CLI thing instead of numeric levels
09:54 < fscale> Elladan: Let's try, I've already tried many things & let's just say, none of them are ideal. Trying to use a mix to get to my ideal setup.
09:55 < peetaur2> fscale: did you try mpv instead? I don't find vlc is better at anything (except maybe dvds with menus and stuff, where vlc still sucks at but mpv doesn't even try to work with)
09:56 < fscale> mpv doesn't have gui right? I'm not that level expert.
09:56 < peetaur2> smplayer2 works with mpv
09:56 < Elladan> fscale, vlc is particularly unlikely to work with xpra.
09:56 < stevwills> ahh  gentoo and the long ass compiling
09:57 < fscale> Elladan: What other options are there for per application scaling though? I had to search a lot even to get to that.
09:57 < fscale> peetaur2: I'll try SMPlayer
09:57 < peetaur2> stevwills: yeah if you only have a quad socket board with less than 24 cores you might be underpowered
09:57 < Elladan> fscale, xpra is a very heavyweight and wacky scheme to display your X apps over the network and allow reconnect. Mixing that with high perf video, really not recommended.
09:57 < stevwills> peetaur2: haha yeah.... a laptop makes it long....
09:58 < thatlizdude> peetaur2: https://hastebin.com/buqosadesa.scala
09:58 < Elladan> fscale, I don't know. In principle a compositing window manager could scale things for you efficiently, but I have no idea if anyone's tried to implement that.
09:58 < stevwills> peetaur2:  cant wait to compile webkits.... those are long
09:59 < peetaur2> thatlizdude: it seems to say it is configured to use /Users/myuser/.ssh/id_rsa_myuser (which is not default) and can't find the file ...but this is a very short output, not like verbose at all
10:00 < Elladan> fscale, like I said yesterday, I think you're better off just trying to change your font sizes than trying to scale.
10:01 < thatlizdude> peetaur2: yes that's the key I need it to use
10:01 < fscale> Elladan: Font sizes already scaled, obviously that doesn't scale everything. It might scale the UI where there is text at best, but other things like the navigation bar at the bottom of vlc remain unaffected. I'm just seeing what all options are there & what I can do.
10:02 < peetaur2> hmm actually mine also says "debug1: identity file /home/uesrname/.ssh/keyfilename type 0" even though the file exists
10:02 < thatlizdude> wait it isn't encrypted actually
10:02 < thatlizdude> hmmm
10:02 < peetaur2> quite the useless misleading error
10:02 < thatlizdude> is there a way to still encrypt it or do I have to generate a new one?
10:03 < Elladan> fscale, I understand that you want to scale the whole UI, but if it's not implemented in the app/de and you only have a 25% scale required, I don't think there's a good solution for you.
10:03 < peetaur2> thatlizdude: there's surely a way, but it's trivial to just generate a new one
10:03 < peetaur2> unless of course it's non-trivial to deploy it a million places or such
10:04 < thatlizdude> wouldn't I just remove the .ssh public key on my VPS and move the new one in?
10:04 < Elladan> fscale, it's certainly possible to implement, but it just doesn't seem to be a priority for anyone right now. Back when compositing window managers first came out, people added a lot of fancy effects in things like Compiz, including the ability to arbitrarily scale windows up/down and so on.
10:04 < thatlizdude> in authorized_keys
10:04 < peetaur2> deploying it on one machine which you have access to another way like via password is easy too
10:05 < thatlizdude> should I encrypt the key or do you think it's fine as it is?
10:05 < peetaur2> general rule: for interactively used keys *always* encrypt; for automated machines using keys it's fine to not encrypt (but you could still use ssh-agent to do it once interactively)
10:06 < Elladan> fscale, however since then people seem to really have just wanted to focus on making a small number of idiot-proof features. You can still install things like compiz, use it with mate or whatever, but I suspect you'll just end up spending all your time playing with scaling factors and not using your computer.
10:06 < peetaur2> on a laptop I'd be especially cautious since someone might steal it
10:06 < thatlizdude> yeah I put it on my phone too
10:07 < thatlizdude> so I found I could do this: `ssh-keygen -p -f ~/.ssh/id_rsa`
10:07 < tx> thatlizdude: cucumber.
10:07 < thatlizdude> hm?
10:08 < thatlizdude> if I encrypt my private key, I don't need to generate a new public key do I?
10:08 < fscale> Elladan: If there is no convenient hackable solution to this, then I'll just keep my options limited to choosing the right DE. Nothing more.
10:10 < thatlizdude> I just wanna make sure because I don't wanna get locked out of the VPS
10:10 < likcoras> thatlizdude: nope, the encryption only disallows easy reading of the private key, does not change anything about the keypair themselves.
10:10 < thatlizdude> thank you :)
10:11 < thatlizdude> I almost locked myself out when I was setting up ufw (almost logged off without allowing my ssh port)
10:12 < hkr> hey
10:12 < thatlizdude> alright now it finally wants the password and it works!
10:12 < Elladan> fscale, yeah, I think your best bet is just to decide which of various DE's and distros you prefer and leave it at that, with basic configuration. Some apps will look funny, so it won't be perfect.
10:12 < hkr> what's a good book to read about the history of computers and shit? Mainly operating systems...
10:12 < thatlizdude> so I should use ssh-agent if I want it to remember the password and the key?
10:13 < likcoras> thatlizdude: yup. Sometimes gpg-agent also handles ssh, btw.
10:13 < Elladan> fscale, BTW, there's usually some form of a screen magnify feature. You may need to turn it on in accessibility features or something.
10:13 < thatlizdude> on my macOS I only have ssh-agent :)
10:13 < Elladan> fscale, ... so if you really need to zoom in once in a while it's there.
10:13 < baako> hi guys they is a command i have to run do get docker running, i find that i have to use sudo all the time, what is the best way to do this without sudo?
10:13 < fscale> Elladan: kk thanks. :)
10:14 < likcoras> baako: add yourself to the docker group. However, know that this is equivalent to giving that user root access on that machine, due to the way docker works.
10:14 < likcoras> don't forget to relogin.
10:16 < Elladan> fscale, also obviously browsers and word processors etc., you can just zoom in in the app (you can even set default zoom in browsers).
10:16 < baako> likcoras: i ran  usermod -aG docker ${USER}
10:18 < thatlizdude> could I also set ssh-agent to something so I could do something like `ssh vps` and it would just login?
10:18 < likcoras> thatlizdude: man ssh-add
10:18 < thatlizdude> alright
10:20 < revel> Can you store a swapfile in tmpfs?
10:21 < mgolisch> thats silly..
10:21 < revel> It is :D
10:21 < searedvandal> I don't see why you shouldn't be able to. Don't know why you would though
10:22 < revel> A Stack Exchange post says "no" though.
10:22 < kerframil> it's not possible
10:22 < revel> "swapon system call requires readpage and bmap (indirectly) calls being implemented by filesystem"
10:24 < thatlizdude> found the ssh config, this is amazing :) thanks!
10:24 < likcoras> \o/
10:26 < Elladan> You may not be able to swap to tmpfs, but you can swap to zram :-)
10:26 < syb0rg> oh no likcoras, are you drowning? Here's a lifering, grab on! -----O
10:27 < likcoras> ~~(\o/)~~
10:28  * iflema foka
10:28 < syb0rg> whew. close call
10:29 < thatlizdude> if I do `ssh-add key`, is that gonna remember the passphrase forever?
10:29 < thatlizdude> because it seems like it has forgotten it after I closed the terminal, but now I'm testing it and it stays...
10:30 < FManTropyx> morning, lynx ppl
10:30  * iflema w3m
10:30 < FManTropyx> what advantage do I get from using lvm? how should I partition two 2 TB drives for Linux?
10:31 < iflema> FManTropyx: luks
10:32 < Elladan> thatlizdude, ssh-add adds the key to a running key agent, which is usually part of your desktop session.
10:32 < iflema> FManTropyx: keep one drive for a backup.... overkill
10:32 < thatlizdude> oh so when I restart my laptop I'll need to enter it again?
10:32 < Elladan> thatlizdude, yes.
10:33 < thatlizdude> hmm :/
10:33 < Elladan> thatlizdude, or usually when you log out. When dealing with the agent on a remote machine etc. you often run into annoyances.
10:33 < FManTropyx> right, I was thinking that, or I could set them to mirror each other, but I don't have a RAID controller and I have been told that software RAID "sucks"
10:34 < Elladan> thatlizdude, your environment's keyring manager may have some way for you to add it forever.
10:34 < thatlizdude> oh yeah I think there was a word on that somewhere
10:34 < Elladan> FManTropyx, it doesn't suck, but there are caveats.
10:34 < thatlizdude> I'll google it when I'll need it then
10:35 < Elladan> FManTropyx, lvm allows you to create logical block devices (like partitions) easily, move them, resize them, etc. It can also create snapshots, and can mirror them using RAID-1 and possibly higher.
10:36 < Elladan> FManTropyx, the other option you have with RAID is to use md-raid, where you use it to create a volume, then put lvm on top of that. With only 2 disks, either option works fine.
10:36 < Elladan> FManTropyx, the real question here is whether you want raid at all. Do you need raid?
10:37 < FManTropyx> awesome, I'll look into it some more - thanks! from what I have been told I need MBR with /boot and then the rest can be a volume group used for lvm
10:37 < Elladan> Yes.
10:37 < Elladan> iflema suggested luks (encryption), which would be appropriate if you're using a laptop.
10:39 < Elladan> volume group is the wrong term there, it's physical volume. I think.
10:39 < Elladan> (I mean, depending on what you meant)
10:40 < iflema> 9
10:41 < Elladan> Since you have 2 disks, I'd suggest just partitioning the first one with /boot (say 1G) and the rest is an LVM physical volume (pv). The second disk, you could just make one partition and make it a pv, but I'd suggest making it identical to the first.
10:41 < iflema> vg
10:41 < iflema> with pvs
10:42 < Elladan> You then put both pv's into a vg (volume group) and create your logical volumes (lvs).
10:42 < Elladan> With this setup, you can choose for each lv whether you want it RAID-1 protected or not.
10:45 < jim> in a nutshell... with LVM, instead of putting filesystems in partitions directly, you put 'LVM physical volumes' in partitions, then you make a 'volume group' (which is just a list of physical volumes), and put physical volumes in the volume groups, then you can make 'logical volumes', and these are allocated out of the volume groups
10:47 < Elladan> Yes. Note that the logical volumes don't have to be on just one disk, or contiguous, and you can move them around while the system is running.
10:47 < iflema> add some luks and leave ya kerel like a candle in the wind...
10:48 < jim> oh that elton john dude
10:48 < Elladan> Honestly there really aren't many reasons you wouldn't want lvm these days. I think distros should just default to it.
10:49 < iflema> poof in the wind
10:49 < jim> cute_korean_girl, is your connection ok? I notice you're slowly coming in an out of the channel
10:50 < micrex22> jim I have joins/parts/quits hidden
10:50 < iflema> micrex22: you missing all the action...
10:50 < Elladan> I normally don't hide them, but this channel was so spammy I bit the bullet.
10:50 < jim> Elladan, it has certainly proven its stability over the years
10:50 < micrex22> yeah it's way too spammy
10:51 < iflema> send off to anther buffrer in cse you need it... probably not
10:51 < micrex22> iflema I don't think quassel can do that
10:51 < peetaur2> I wish it would just compress them into a summary and then you can hit + to see it or something... it's useful, sometimes critical, but too much is spam
10:52 < iflema> micrex22: im sure it logs txt files
10:52 < iflema> weechat filters joins parts
10:52 < jim> peetaur2, you can probably get your client to do something like that, I've seen things like that before
10:53 < iflema> you can cut them down
10:53 < iflema> recently spoken and what not
10:53 < Elladan> Doesn't weechat have a feature where it can filter them out, except for people who've spoken recently?
10:53 < iflema> yes
10:53 < Elladan> Yeah, that's pretty nice.
10:53 < iflema> yo set the interval
10:53 < Elladan> I've been meaning to try switching over to weechat one of these days.
10:53 < iflema> but it catches ya eye
10:54 < iflema> it hits the screen then gets pulled
10:54 < iflema> out the corner... i can get annoying
10:54 < iflema> it too!
10:55 < iflema> its quick but yeah... not that fast
10:56 < jim> iflema, are you trying to move to lve now?
10:56 < iflema> 9
10:56 < iflema> i am on one in a luks container
10:57 < iflema> kernel in the "breeze"
10:57 < iflema> its signed
10:58 < iflema> full EFI rort
10:58 < Elladan> I once repartitioned my boot disk by attaching an iscsi volume, using luks, added it to my volume group, and then moving all lv's away from the boot disk.
10:59 < Elladan> Then I repartitioned, re-added the boot disk pv, and moved them back. :-)
11:01 < iflema> and 0 btrfs
11:07 < repys> why btrfs is preferred to XFS ?
11:08 < iflema> it has snapshots does it not?
11:08 < iflema> revoles around even? no idea.
11:09 < peetaur2> repys: depends on what for... it has many features, but some performance and stability issues still
11:10 < repys> for NAS I meant :)
11:10 < repys> I see some nas solutions use btrfs by default
11:12 < peetaur2> nas is all about hiding how it does it and what the shortcomings are, and just exposing features to clicky GUIs :)
11:13 < peetaur2> and btrfs actually has a pretty bad CLI UI (awesome way they did subcommands and help, but horrible output... neither human nor machine readable)
11:14 < naan_> how come if i type man export there's nothing there
11:15 < spare> exports a shell builtin
11:15 < naan_> ok gotcha
11:15 < CoJaBo> check the manpage for the shell
11:15 < peetaur2> naan_: when such things happen, you can guess it's a shell builtin.... which can also show that by saying command not found, or help <command>  will show it if it's a builtin
11:15 < peetaur2> which as in the command which
11:15 < peetaur2> that sentense is hard to read with the which in there :)
11:15 < naan_> which gives me nothing actually
11:16 < naan_> maybe which -v
11:16 < azarus> xfs: tried and tested since 1994, (bit shorter of a while in linux, 2001)
11:16 < naan_> ok no there is no verbose arg for which
11:16 < naan_> i guess nothing is fine
11:17 < naan_> thanks anyway guys that's cleared it all up
11:19 < naan_> nice so i can use help echo in the same way to see how to append this export to my .profile
11:19 < searedvandal> man export should work
11:21 < tsakos> Hey, I use a program which listens/is connected to a socket (mpv). After some time it loses connection. Is it probably because of being paused for some time or because another mpv process is binding that socket? Or maybe second mpv process binds the socket because first one is sleeping/waiting (in pause state)
11:23 < giby> Hello everyone, I wish you a good day! What would be the command if I want, in a terminal, to find the lines from a text file, that includes a given string? (I precise I don't want only the line, but the following too
11:24 < CoJaBo> grep ?
11:24 < tsakos> giby: You want to print total lines of a file that has a given string?
11:25 < tsakos> Or just the matched lines?
11:25 < MrElendig> man grep
11:25 < peetaur2> tsakos: if a socket is listening, it is bound, and you can't bind it again
11:25 < peetaur2> a tcp socket at least... not sure if unix domain sockets have funny behavior like that
11:26 < tsakos> peetaur2: That's what I thought as well. But for some reason, it doesn't get my commands. Probably a bug?
11:26 < giby> I get a line with > XXXXXStringtofindXXXXX followed by a line XXXXVery important information XXXXXX
11:27 < tsakos> peetaur2: I remember (just before this happened) that I've had 1st mpv in paused state and then openend a second one and sent a command to it from the same socket.
11:27 < CoJaBo> giby: `man grep`
11:27 < tsakos> peetaur2: Note that 1st mpv process was in paused state for a few hours.
11:28 < maarhart> I want to connect two bluetooth earphones to my computer. Is there any way to do this?
11:28 < tsakos> Maybe it gets disconnected from the socket after some time? But then the socket would not exist. Right?
11:28 < MrElendig> maarhart: pulseaudio, bluetoothctl
11:28 < maarhart> I mean connecting is possible, I want to actually listen using both
11:28 < MrElendig> maarhart: read the docs for your distro, since it depends on how outdated it is
11:28 < maarhart> MrElendig: newest ubuntu
11:29 < tsakos> giby: I don't understand what you mean.
11:29 < MrElendig> note: only sbc is supported, so horrible sound quality
11:29 < tsakos> giby: You want to print just 1 line?
11:29 < azarus> sbc?
11:29 < maarhart> MrElendig: really horrible?
11:29 < tsakos> giby: You can ask on #bash as well.
11:29 < MrElendig> maarhart: 96kbit mp3 horrible
11:30 < maarhart> MrElendig: this may be enough for watching the world cup.
11:30 < maarhart> MrElendig: I just install those two?
11:30 < peetaur2> so good enough for morse code, almost ok for speech
11:30 < MrElendig> maarhart: as said, read the docs for your distro
11:31 < giby> 2 line the one with the sting and the folowing
11:32 < MrElendig> I would asume that ubuntu has the bluetooth stack installed by default
11:32 < CoJaBo> giby: did you check the manpage yet?
11:33 < c06> hi all. i have multiple dhcp server running on the network i want my machine to fetch ip from second dhcp server.
11:33 < c06> is there any way to configure that
11:33 < giby> CoJaBo, I'm currently on…
11:33 < maarhart> MrElendig: I have both pulseaudio and bluetoothctl. Would you please point me to relevant documentation?
11:33 < maarhart> Latest ubuntu
11:34 < MrElendig> c06: some dhcp clients lets you manually change the order
11:34 < MrElendig> maarhart: see their wiki
11:35 < jim> naan_, export is a shell builtin, try looking at man bash-builtins
11:35 < maarhart> MrElendig: okay, it seems that a package called paprefs would be needed
11:36 < maarhart> MrElendig: https://askubuntu.com/questions/78174/play-sound-through-two-or-more-outputs-devices
11:36 < c06> MrElendig: ok thnk you for suggestions i ll check
11:38 < Pusteblume> how can i get more info than just "cannot mount" a bunch of ISOs?
11:40 < jim> what's producing the "cannot mount" message?
11:41 < peetaur2> Pusteblume: smack whoever gave you useless output and ask for the raw full output including commands issued that lead to that
11:41 < giby> CoJaBo, tsakos : I was looking for "grep -A1"
11:42 < CoJaBo> Pusteblume: Also check dmesg
11:42 < CoJaBo> Mount errors get dumped there a lot of times
11:43 < Pusteblume> i tried to access the nfs share with root again :(
11:44 < jim> how did you try to do that?
11:44 < Pusteblume> mount /nfs/file.iso /destination
11:45 < jim> are there isos on an nfs share you have mounted?
11:45 < Pusteblume> jim, yep
11:46 < learningc> ftp -n $FTP_addr > /dev/null << End-Of-Session
11:46 < learningc> What does this command do exactly?
11:47 < vistefan> Hi there. I'm new to building programs manually. I'm trying to install toxic on Ubuntu 16.04. It requires toxcore. I've done all as in INSTALL.md (make, make install) but when building toxic it still says "you need this librarues: toxcore". Any ideas?
11:47 < jim> maybe you can try this (please check man mount for meaning of -o loop): mount -o loop /nfs/file.iso /destination
11:48 < High_Priest> Pusteblume, you have to loop mount the iso file
11:48 < peetaur2> learningc: runs a command "ftp" with args "-n" "$FTP_addr", sends stdout to /dev/null, sends stderr to the usual place... on screen/terminal, and instead of taking stdin from terminal interactively, it lets you type it right away, and you end the input with a line "End-Of-Session"
11:48 < peetaur2> learningc: that << thing is called heredoc
11:49 < jim> vistefan, maybe you have to build toxcore yourself, maybe not... try: apt-cache search toxcore
11:49 < jim> and see if you get any output
11:50 < vistefan> jim: no, there is no output
11:53 < learningc> peetaur2, I see
11:53 < learningc> peetaur2, thanks
11:57 < c06> did configuring DPDK on interfaces requires rebooting the physical machine.!?!?
11:59 < vistefan> jim: i think the reason can in --prefix
12:30 < Xatenev> hello
12:30 < Xatenev> i want to start a specific program but when i try to it says port 8080 is already in use
12:31 < Xatenev> so i tried to do lsof -i :8080
12:31 < Xatenev> and it lists me one program using it - i tried to do pkill -9 pidFromLsof
12:31 < Xatenev> but the program is still listed in lsof after
12:31 < Xatenev> what can i do
12:34 < sauvin> What's the program?
12:36 < Xatenev> nvm solved lol
12:36 < Xatenev> someone just helped me out - I needed `kill` instead of `pkill`
12:36 < Sveta> how
12:36 < Sveta> ok!
12:36 < Xatenev> since kill matches pids and pkill matches process names
12:36 < Xatenev> heh
12:40 < stmiller> yeah like pkill java
12:54 < tdn> I am looking for a decent 16 or 24 port 1 GbE switch that will be used to run 24x7. What are your GO TO recommendations? I have previously used Netgear and HP. Is something like NETGEAR ProSAFE GS716T any good?
12:55 < djph> Ubiquiti
12:55 < searedvandal> ^
12:55 < djph> also ##networking
12:55 < tdn> djph, ubiquiti is the preferred brand now?
12:56 < tdn> Price seems to be double that of NETGEAR. What benefit do I get with ubi?
12:56 < djph> well, it's *my* preferred brand.  The soho brands (Netgear, TP-Link, etc. are all garbage)
12:57 < djph> the simple fact it doesn't say "Netgear" on the front is enough for me.  After that, fully managed is quite nice.
12:57 < jim> I've heard good things about the prosafe, except it turned out to be powered using a wallwart kind of thing (i.e., connected to 110vac in the wall and stepped down outside its case to something like 24,12 or maybe 9v, maybe also converted to dc again outside the case)... I don't really see this as great for long term
12:58 < tdn> djph, I know a lot of ubiquitis wifi stuff requires an external server for managing them. How does this work for their ethernet switches?
12:58 < djph> tdn: no they don't.
12:58 < xxoxx> any good ssh client for windows ?
12:58 < jim> I have an 8 port, does me good
12:58 < tdn> xxoxx, mobaxterm
12:58 < djph> I mean, sure, you need a controller (or an iOS / android) app to set them up.  But a basic / home network can be "set and forget".
12:58 < stmiller> I have an ubiquiti access point, requires a java app on a linux machine to configure
12:58 < xxoxx> @tdn thanks
12:59 < xxoxx> putty is crapping out on me; huge memory leak
12:59 < djph> as for the switches, the Edge* series is your "typical" control the device style, UniFi would use the controller.
12:59 < tdn> Ubiquiti UniFi Switch US-24 is almost 40 % cheaper than Ubiquiti UniFi Switch US-16-150W but I cannot seem to figure out what the US-24 is lacking compared to US-16-150W?
13:00 < djph> jim: not really different having the ac/dc converter in an external supply vs. internally.
13:00 < dilema> Hi! What's the '+' in perms? E.g. drwxr-x---+
13:00 < jim> djph, well the only thing is it's one extra piece
13:01 < djph> US-24 should be more expensive - it's almost a dropin replacement for the ES24 ... unless there's a new version out and the distrib is trying to get rid of "V1" US-24s.
13:01 < jim> and I'd rather that stuff be in a secure case
13:01 < tdn> I just realized that I am no longer in ##hardware. Sorry for being completely off topic
13:01 < djph> jim: fair enough.
13:01 < tdn> djph, ok
13:02 < jim> but, I did get that particular prosafe 8 port switch, works very well
13:02 < jim> I assume a 16 or 24 port would work fine too
13:03 < jim> tdn, no worries, we're fine
13:04 < fred1807> Have a very small sqlite db, size is under 32kb.  When I internally edit 1 line of table, is the disk write smaller than the smallest block size of sd card?
13:04 < jim> dilema, maybe the ls man page says something about that?
13:04 < tdn> djph, jim : ubi US-24 seems to be a PoE device. I do not have any PoE devices. I am assuming that PoE is not a problem to have if you do not use it? I mean, it will not damage devices that are not built for PoE, right?
13:05 < tdn> fred1807, maybe you did not sync to disk?
13:05 < tdn> fred1807, try and run 'sync' just after the write and see if more data is written
13:06 < fred1807> sorry, question is, is it possible to write very small chunck of data, smaller thant the block size?  (I am a newbie)
13:07 < jim> fred1807, well any disk write will be no smaller than the block size of the device
13:07 < tdn> djph, is the ubiquiti controller free software?
13:07 < fred1807> ultimate goal is to minimize sd wear
13:07 < dilema> jim, It is something about acl package
13:07 < dilema> getfacl and setfacl commands
13:08 < felix_vs> Hi, i'm using linux kernel v4.15.0-15 , is there good reason to upgrade to v4.15.0-24 ?
13:08 < jim> dilema, maybe it means that "additionally, there is also an acl associated with this file"
13:09 < jim> anyway I'm out for awhile :) have fun
13:09 < djph> tdn: yes.
13:09 < djph> tdn: er, "yes" to all of the questions.
13:11 < tdn> djph, yes as in PoE is safe for non-PoE devices? Or yes as in it will damage them?
13:11 < tdn> djph, I assume this is the software, I need to manage the ubi switch? https://help.ubnt.com/hc/en-us/articles/115012196527-UNMS-Installation-Guide
13:15 < djph> yes, it's safe (unless you force "passive", which is always on)
13:15 < djph> no, you don't need UNMS.
13:15 < tdn> Oh. Amazon reviews says that the ubi switches are very noisy. This is for a home installation so lots of noise will be a show stopper.
13:16 < djph> I don't find them overly noisy.
13:16 < djph> But then again, I'm not sitting right next to them (they're in the basement, formerly in a closet in my office.
13:19 < djph> Now, the server (some old Dell rackmount) does get quite loud when it needs to - you can hear it through the floor.
13:19 < tdn> djph, is this one: Ubiquiti UniFi Switch US-24 (https://www.edbpriser.dk/produkt/ubiquiti-unifi-switch-us-24/#slide4) the SAME as this one: https://store.ubnt.com/collections/routing-switching/products/unifi-switch-24 ?? Because as I understand this: https://community.ubnt.com/t5/UniFi-Routing-Switching/Unifi-Switch-24-non-poe-Fan-Noise/td-p/1687631# it should be completely fanless. Which seals the deal if
13:19 < tdn> true
13:21 < djph> If you get teh US-24-LITE (IIRC that's the model name for the non-poe models)
13:22 < djph> teh "US-24" is the standard 24-port PoE switch.
13:22 < zapotah> grrr...why isnt discard a default mount option....
13:22 < zapotah> and why does the lvm xfs on centos not honor the fstab discard option
13:23 < tdn> djph, it seems there is a US-24 and a US-24-250W model. 250W is more expensive. There is not LITE version available in my country
13:24 < tdn> djph, oh, there is ES-24-LITE
13:24 < tdn> Not US
13:24 < djph> hm, maybe they named things funny like on the UniFi side.
13:25 < tdn> What is the difference between US-xx and ES-xx?
13:25 < djph> Check the datasheet
13:25 < djph> Attach to the UniFi controller (US) or don't (ES)
13:25 < djph> otherwise, they should be identical (i.e. the US-24-250 and the ES-24-250 do the same thing)
13:25 < tdn> Does that mean ES is not managed?
13:26 < djph> oh, no, it's entirely managed -- you just have to use the CLI / individually manage the switch, as opposed to "do everything in the UniFi controller"
13:27 < tdn> djph, ok, but should ES-24-LITE be entirely fanless?
13:28 < djph> can't remember if it is.  Would need to check the datasheets.
13:29 < tdn> djph, yeah I tried, it does not say anything about fans or dB
13:29 < tdn> It does seem to have a hole for fans in the back on the pictures
13:29 < djph> could've sworn it was noted if they were fanless.
13:29 < djph> meh, if they're not they're not.
13:30 < djph> I know the really small ones (8 port?) are ... but IIRC, you needed 24
13:31 < tdn> djph, I need 16, but 24 will do
13:31 < djph> ah
13:31 < BluesKaj> Howdy folks
13:33  * Pentode tips his hat
13:53 < seven-eleven> hi, what is nextcloud or syncthing doing when you are downloading a file inside a synchronized folder, is it syncing the file in realtime or waiting until the file has been downloaded completely to the disk?
14:00 < Ruzzy> my gnome on xorg session is just a black screen recently
14:00 < Ruzzy> kde plasma works though
14:01 < Ruzzy> how do I even diagnose
14:02 < iflema> and no changes?
14:02 < Ruzzy> iflema: right
14:02 < Ruzzy> just one day I reboot and try login, and black
14:02 < Ruzzy> but switching to plasma worked
14:02 < iflema> upgrades maybe. Can you remember "the day"?
14:03 < Ruzzy> I upgrade often
14:03 < iflema> distro
14:03 < iflema> ?
14:03 < Ruzzy> fedora 27
14:03 < flashpoint> with a vpn do I set the gateway to the country I'm in?
14:03 < iflema> switched as in install
14:04 < Ruzzy> iflema: no, kde was already installed. I just picked it from my session manager for the first time
14:04 < iflema> Ruzzy: isnt 27 new?
14:05 < Ruzzy> iflema: whoops, 28
14:05 < iflema> so it broke in the move maybe? 27 -> 28? did you read the release notes?
14:05 < Ruzzy> iflema: nah I did a release upgrade long before this problem appeared
14:06 < iflema> k
14:06 < flashpoint> I'm using a vpn for the first time
14:07 < flashpoint> do I set the gateway to the country I'm in, or the country I want to appera to be in
14:07 < iflema> \_o_/
14:08 < BluesKaj> flashpoint, openvpn?
14:10 < BluesKaj> leave the gateway alone the vpn server you choose will show your apparent internet IP depending on which country it's located in.
14:16 < xdije> hi
14:16 < iflema> o/
14:17 < Pentode> hihi
14:17 < xdije> how can i search for directories which are not accessible by a group
14:17 < xdije> the group is not the owner, but sometimes added to the acls using setfacl,
14:34 < CrazyTux> has anyone here tested linux Mint 19?
14:34 < CrazyTux> Cinnamon?
14:35 < iflema> no
14:35 < iflema> ever
14:35 < iflema> i always think money
14:36 < CrazyTux> what?
14:36 < iflema> is it green?
14:38 < iflema> as opposed to brown or purple
14:38 < iflema> whats debian?
14:38 < iflema> black
14:38 < iflema> blue
14:40 < ShotokanZH> hi evryone
14:40 < CrazyTux> iflema, Cinnamon?
14:40 < iflema> i like the idea of a verifiable debian
14:40 < iflema> CrazyTux: mint...
14:40 < CrazyTux> iflema, what do you mean by "verifiable debian:?
14:41 < ShotokanZH> is it possible to chroot to the user home when doing SFTP but don't chroot when on SSH?
14:41 < iflema> vaerifying packages and even bianries to avoid third party wedging of shit
14:42 < iflema> and what not
14:42 < ShotokanZH> i want the user to see only his local folder and i'm having him run a limited shell on SSH that can only run pre-determined commands
14:42 < CrazyTux> iflema, I am just a non technical end user. Do you think Mint is not a secure distro?
14:42 < CrazyTux> iflema, in Mint 19 they have brought a change in the update policy.
14:43 < iflema> CrazyTux: do elaborate
14:45 < CrazyTux> iflema, https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=239192
14:46 < iflema> CrazyTux: just make a day of it or what ever and read the release notes and verify checksums of the install image and try to stick to the distros repos i guesss if possible
14:46 < iflema> and you should be ok
14:46 < CrazyTux> iflema, ok. Is Cinnamon one of the heavier DEs?
14:47 < iflema> CrazyTux: I couldnt even point it out in a line up
14:47 < CrazyTux> iflema, which one do you use or prefer?
14:48 < iflema> always liked kde
14:48 < iflema> 3 and 4 and into 5
14:48 < iflema> 4 was rough ride
14:49 < iflema> for a while
14:49 < CrazyTux> ok
14:50 < CrazyTux> I think Cinnamon is the easiest of them all, for a newbie.
14:50 < iflema> CrazyTux: i like twm and i3 also, not a full desktop as such just a window manager and you just run all the things full screen and tiled
14:50 < CrazyTux> iflema, ok
14:51 < iflema> Gnome is ok for a laptop
14:52 < iflema> kinda weird for a tower i think
14:52 < CrazyTux> for a windows user?
14:52 < iflema> just in general
14:53 < iflema> personally im not really a fan of the whole GTK look and feel either
14:53 < CrazyTux> for a user who wants to use GUI only.
14:53 < searedvandal> xfce
14:54 < searedvandal> I think that's pretty good for new converts from Windows
14:55 < iflema> CrazyTux: well, what ever works best... you can dual-boot another system or whatever and try em all
14:55 < iflema> kde has alot of options and always has
14:55 < CrazyTux> ok
14:55 < iflema> if you dont like something you can chang it
14:55 < iflema> just about anything
14:56 < iflema> its a little heavier but it can be really shinny
14:57 < CrazyTux> ok
14:57 < BluesKaj> usually windows users find kde/plasma more familiar looking than most other DEs
14:57 < CrazyTux> but, I have read that KDE Plasma is not as stable as others like Mate and Xfce.
14:57 < iflema> CrazyTux: CrazyTux I always have 2 or more desktops and plain windowmanagers installed and switch depending on what im doing
14:58 < iflema> CrazyTux: something like twm and i3 you can pre-configure how every opens and you can get right to it
14:58 < CrazyTux> iflema, ok
14:58 < iflema> kde as well but sometimes you just want all that out the way
14:59 < iflema> CrazyTux: in fact i dont even boot to a login manager. Some times i dont even startx
14:59 < iflema> depends on what happnin
14:59 < azarus> i've always stuck to dwm. are there other similarly small window manager? Something like 2bwm?
14:59 < iflema> i have machines that do
14:59 < azarus> managers*
14:59 < iflema> but what ever works
15:04 < CrazyTux> ok
15:08 < iflema> CrazyTux: so mint may have a snapshot of a version of kde and it may or may not be in good shape. Version 4 was shocking until 4.6 almost unusable and some distros almost unusable with it
15:08 < iflema> similar during early 5 development
15:09 < iflema> so it is/can be a littlt fluxy at times
15:09 < CrazyTux> iflema, Mint no longer ships its KDE version.
15:09 < iflema> k
15:09 < CrazyTux> it's only Cinnamon, Mate and Xfce.
15:09 < CrazyTux> now
15:10 < iflema> it can be a little hard to pin down
15:10 < iflema> i assume
15:10 < iflema> so it seems
15:11 < iflema> CrazyTux: does mint do a rolling release or ever 6 months or some thing?
15:12 < CrazyTux> iflema, Mint is based on Ubuntu LTS.
15:12 < dm4uz3> penis
15:12 < CrazyTux> Mint 19 is based on Ubuntu 18.04 LTS.
15:12 < iflema> :D
15:12 < DrJ> Bacon
15:12 < iflema> unity was ok
15:12 < iflema> poor fing
15:13 < iflema> macish
15:14 < iflema> it was ok on a laptop
15:14 < iflema> :D
15:16 < CrazyTux> iflema, https://www.linuxmint.com/
15:16 < iflema> ive seen 18.04 LTS
15:16 < iflema> its kind of... meh
15:16 < iflema> CrazyTux: i do recall the names.. i like the names
15:17 < iflema> Tara
15:18 < iflema> https://www.linuxmint.com/pictures/screenshots/tara/cinnamon.png
15:19 < iflema> i gues i could pick it in a lineup... the mint icon bottom left... take a stab and say tara...
15:19 < iflema> i mean cinnamon
15:20 < CrazyTux> iflema, would you recommend it to a newbie?
15:20  * Psi-Jack sweeps by suddenly and taints the cinnamon with some cloves.
15:20 < iflema> CrazyTux: not familiar
15:21 < CrazyTux> ok
15:21 < iflema> but a decent start i guess CrazyTux
15:21 < iflema> CrazyTux: its got a screen lock :D
15:21 < iflema> ?
15:22 < iflema> power managment?
15:22 < iflema> good to go
15:22 < Psi-Jack> It's no good unless it has tlp. :)
15:22 < iflema> CrazyTux: if your/the computers surrounding are safe... youll be ok
15:23 < Psi-Jack> Tsk tsk tsk. CrazyTux, once again, polling, endlessly.
15:23 < CrazyTux> iflema, the update policy in Mint 18.3 was what kept me from installing on my laptop. Now, since they have done away with that, I think I will try Mint 19.
15:23 < Psi-Jack> Same thing, different day.
15:24  * iflema another day another hobby
15:24 < BluesKaj> another day another OS for CrazyTux :-)
15:24 < CrazyTux> btw, besides installing and running tlp is there anything that we can do to enhance battery life of laptops?
15:24 < CrazyTux> while using linux distros?
15:25 < Psi-Jack> Yes.
15:25 < iflema> systemctl enable powertop tunings and dimm the screen
15:25 < CrazyTux> Psi-Jack, what is that?
15:25 < CrazyTux> ok
15:25 < Psi-Jack> CrazyTux: Stuff. :p
15:25 < iflema> a balanced power managment policy...
15:26 < iflema> dimm the sceen
15:26 < CrazyTux> ok
15:26 < Psi-Jack> I feel like this specific conversation's happened many times over with CrazyTux.
15:26 < Psi-Jack> This is itteration number 1,239.
15:27 < iflema> cut!
15:27 < CrazyTux> Psi-Jack, no. this is a new topic.
15:27 < CrazyTux> about power management
15:27 < Psi-Jack> Now now. My logs prove otherwise. :p
15:28 < CrazyTux> :p
15:28 < iflema> CrazyTux: get a SSD
15:28 < CrazyTux> iflema, I will try.
15:28 < iflema> huge
15:29 < iflema> performance and stamina
15:29 < CrazyTux> ok
15:29 < Psi-Jack> Samsung EVO, Samsung Pro, or Toshiba SSD.
15:29 < iflema> thats it the kernel will sort the rest
15:29 < iflema> provided your distro is not wacked
15:30 < CrazyTux> ok
15:30 < Psi-Jack> iflema: He'll kill his SSD with how frequently he changes distros. :p
15:30 < iflema> :D
15:31 < iflema> CrazyTux: the default kernels should be fine out the box
15:31 < BluesKaj> Samsung EVO 850 works nicely on this pc
15:31 < iflema> r.e. power managment
15:31 < Psi-Jack> If getting new, get the 860. :)
15:31 < iflema> basically
15:31 < CrazyTux> ok
15:32 < iflema> CrazyTux: just set your screen timeout and lock to something usable and sane
15:32 < iflema> keep it dimm
15:32 < CrazyTux> ok
15:32 < iflema> .
15:32 < Psi-Jack> Also, quit switching distros all the damn time, and MAYBE, just maybe you can actually tune one enough to actually be reasonable. LOL
15:32 < Psi-Jack> Seriously. LOL
15:33 < BluesKaj> Psi-Jack, I got the 850 on sale , couldn't pass it up $70 off MSRP
15:33 < CrazyTux> one more question. Am I vulnerable when I run Windows applications through Wine?
15:33 < Psi-Jack> Yes
15:33 < tsakos> You should run anti-virus as well.
15:33 < iflema> CrazyTux: can you not find/use alternates
15:33 < CrazyTux> could Linux packages, local files be affected?
15:33 < Psi-Jack> Local files in $HOME, sure.
15:34 < CrazyTux> suppose I need a specific windows package.
15:34 < paulcarroty> BluesKaj, which storage of 850?
15:34 < Psi-Jack> paulcarroty: wut?
15:34 < BluesKaj> paulcarroty, 256
15:34 < Psi-Jack> Ahh, capacity.
15:35 < paulcarroty> great
15:35 < BluesKaj> it's been almost 3yrs now, still running great (knocks on wood)
15:36 < Psi-Jack> I upgraded my OCZ Agility 3 250GiB with a 500GiB EVO 860. :)
15:36 < CrazyTux> do we need to defragment the hdd when using only Linux OS?
15:36 < Elodin> anybody using gnome know how to allow me to cycle through windows of the same application?
15:36 < CrazyTux> or is it required on Windows only?
15:37 < paulcarroty> CrazyTux, nope
15:37 < iflema> Elodin: im not but     alt + `
15:37 < BluesKaj> CrazyTux, only windows
15:37 < Psi-Jack> xfs has an online defragmentation tool.
15:37 < iflema> alt+~
15:37 < CrazyTux> I have all the partition on my laptop
15:37 < iflema> or is it shift
15:37 < paulcarroty> btrfs has defragmenter too
15:37 < iflema> ~
15:37 < Psi-Jack> Usually only needed when you fill up the disk too much and keep it that way.
15:37 < CrazyTux> with ext4
15:37 < nothos> CrazyTux For one thing, if you're using an SSD you shouldn't do traditional defragmenting on them
15:37 < Elodin> iflema: it doesnt actually. I mean, it cycle up to a max of 2 windows, if i have 3, one is not even shown.
15:37 < paulcarroty> ext4 don't need it
15:38 < CrazyTux> ok
15:38 < Psi-Jack> ext4 does too, sometimes. If you fill it up.
15:38 < iflema> Elodin: on another desktop?
15:38 < Elodin> iflema: same
15:38 < iflema> ?
15:38 < Elodin> same desktop
15:38 < iflema> yeah i got it
15:38 < iflema> is it minimized
15:39 < iflema> i dont know
15:39 < Elodin> iflema: no, they all open and visible.
15:39 < Elodin> yeah, it should be working. i tried messing with the options on keyboard shortcuts but no luck there
15:39 < Elodin> it only cycle up to a max of 2 windows
15:39 < iflema> of any type
15:40 < iflema> ?
15:40 < Elodin> i tried with browser, file manager and terminal
15:41 < Elodin> im guessing any kind of window is the same based on that
15:41 < iflema> there not same applicatio
15:41 < iflema> three terminals
15:41 < Elodin> oh i meant 3-5 of each
15:41 < Elodin> like 3-5 terminal, 3-5 browse windows, etc
15:41 < iflema> odd
15:42 < Elodin> yeah
15:42 < Elodin> thats why im trying irc
15:42 < Elodin> google didnt get me anywhere
15:42 < iflema> distro
15:42 < Elodin> arch
15:42 < Elodin> it should not be a distro thing, should it?
15:43 < Elodin> i was at #gnome, but since last night it has no noise there
15:43 < Psi-Jack> Well, since Arch breaks everything. It very well could be. :)
15:43 < iflema> Elodin: testing or standard core repo
15:43 < Elodin> stable
15:43 < Psi-Jack> Ugh. Trying to read what the actual issue is, but all I see is enter, enter, enter.
15:44 < iflema> Elodin: maybe wait a little? How old is problem?
15:44 < Elodin> i should have gone with opensuse. lmao. i just moved out from osx. it's since install
15:44 < iflema> Elodin: it may come good
15:44 < iflema> Elodin: unless you have been messing with stuff
15:45 < iflema> Elodin: stable is still rather fresh and manualish
15:45 < Psi-Jack> Elodin: Well, lately I've been recommending Solus. openSUSE does some pretty stupid things like setting the openfiles limits too low for most modern day browsers to even have enough.
15:45 < iflema> cut!
15:46  * Psi-Jack grabs the scissors and looks at iflema 
15:46 < iflema> actio!
15:46  * Psi-Jack starts cutting iflema's fingers off. :)
15:47 < iflema> cut! fruit! fruit please... can we get some fruit please
15:47 < Psi-Jack> I am cutting... ;)
15:47 < WhiteDevil> you can get some fruity people
15:47 < WhiteDevil> in gay bars
15:47 < WhiteDevil> does that work :D
15:49  * Dan39 throws fruit at iflema
15:49  * iflema retact! ...dad its needles
15:50 < iflema> read my fax
15:51 < bnason> Does anyone happen to know of a time series database (like elasticsearch etc) that also has sequences/auto incrementing IDs?
15:51 < Psi-Jack> Sorry, T.38 extension failed. Fax receipt error.
15:55 < Elodin> Psi-Jack: what does this openfile limit does? the one you said about opensuse
15:55 < Psi-Jack> Elodin: Max open files at one time per user.
15:56 < Psi-Jack> Once you hit the hard limit, which is really scarey low by default on /current/ openSUSE LEAP editions, things stop loading/working.
15:56 < Elodin> i was between those 2 distros cuz they were the ones i have used in a long time ago. i was more used to their package manager and all that
15:56 < seven-eleven> how safe is storing 128 bit encrypted data on the cloud? 128 bit is bruteforce safe, but there are vulnerabilities in encryption that can be used to defeat the encryption itself and maybe there are already quantum computers?
15:56 < Psi-Jack> seven-eleven: Do you have a Linux question?
15:57 < seven-eleven> Psi-Jack, where to ask better, #security??
15:57 < peetaur2> seven-eleven: even if quantum computers and such can break it, it's still cheaper to do social engineering https://xkcd.com/538/
15:57 < Psi-Jack> ##security
15:58 < iflema> how fast are we going... a we sweeping by or did you stop...
15:58 < peetaur2> seven-eleven: best to just not transmit it at all, or max it out with multiple uniquely different encryption algos so they all have to be broken before they get any data
15:58 < triceratux> rofl "distributions which can take Arch Linux and make it easy to set up and use (as Manjaro's team has) is something a lot of people seem to desire right now." https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20180702#qa
15:58 < seven-eleven> peetaur2, yeeah :-)
15:59 < BluesKaj> arch...a gentoo wannabe :-)
15:59 < Psi-Jack> nah. Arch doesn't wannabe gentoo at all. They want to be themselves, and they do THAT successfully.
15:59 < iflema> i like the idea of gentoo but seriously...
16:00 < Psi-Jack> But... Arch doesn't really DO much of anything for the actual Linux community as a whole.
16:00 < BluesKaj> if you like hair shirts
16:00 < BluesKaj> arch is a pretty ordinary OS
16:01 < iflema> Psi-Jack: put systemd on the map
16:01 < Psi-Jack> Ordinary?
16:01 < Psi-Jack> iflema: Fedora did that. :p
16:01 < peetaur2> triceratux: yeah arch is great..just too bad systemd and no stable release model for servers (except maybe hyperbola ... it's arch tools with debian sources and strict GNU FSDG)
16:01 < CrazyTux> does Gentoo have a community as large as that of Debian or Ubuntu?
16:01 < BluesKaj> yeah, nothing special
16:01 < CrazyTux> triceratux, I am using Manjaro also.
16:01 < Psi-Jack> CrazyTux: See for yourself, don't ask. :p
16:02 < CrazyTux> Psi-Jack, where?
16:02 < Psi-Jack> Where do you think?
16:02 < Psi-Jack> You have a brain. I think.... Use it.
16:02 < CrazyTux> Psi-Jack, I don't know
16:03 < CrazyTux> Gentoo is not meant for beginners, I suppose.
16:03 < Elodin> Psi-Jack: term
16:03 < Psi-Jack> Elodin: Terminate you? :)
16:03 < rocketmagnet> hi all
16:04  * Psi-Jack sigterm's Elodin .
16:04 < rocketmagnet> in my fstab, i've a line like: /dev/sd1 /mount/stuv/data etx4 user,defaults 0 2
16:04 < iflema> CrazyTux: not really the best idea for a desktop... until you really get used to it and that can use a lot of time and generate alot of heat
16:04 < CrazyTux> ok
16:04 < iflema> in the mean time
16:05 < rocketmagnet> now my problem is that only root is the owner, can i set specific owner somehow ? uid=1000 does not work here :(
16:05 < iflema> or read the manual
16:05 < iflema> but its alot to wrap your head around
16:05 < CrazyTux> any Gentoo derivative that is meant for newbies? like Ubuntu which is a Debian derivative.
16:05 < iflema> CrazyTux: not really much point
16:06 < CrazyTux> ok
16:06 < iflema> CrazyTux: one day it may be just what you need and by then youll know
16:06 < CrazyTux> ok.
16:07 < Psi-Jack> Besides... Derivatives are usually worse than the original.
16:07 < Psi-Jack> I mean, look at Ubuntu, and Manjaro.
16:08 < Psi-Jack> Horrible pieces of garbage.
16:08 < MrElendig> ubuntu in some ways is better than debian though
16:08 < g-> no
16:08 < killown> any irc client better than hexchat?
16:08 < killown> with notification and spell checker
16:08 < MrElendig> too bad the company behind it are scumbags
16:08 < Psi-Jack> killown: define "better"
16:08 < MrElendig> killown: weechat
16:08 < killown> MrElendig, I will try
16:08 < killown> Psi-Jack better is better
16:09 < Psi-Jack> useles uses of useless words that mean nothing.
16:09 < Psi-Jack> Try again, or give up?
16:09 < triceratux> CrazyTux: there was sabayon for a long time. these days theres basically calculate in terms of robust gentoo derivatives with binary packages
16:10 < Trel> Is there any way I can force a term to use 8 colors rather than 256 for testing something?
16:10 < adrian_1908> killown: if you want a chat client with GUI, Hexchat is probably as good as it gets.
16:10 < killown> Psi-Jack, ferrari or a Ford Festiva?
16:10 < triceratux> https://www.calculate-linux.org/main/ru/cld
16:10 < Psi-Jack> killown: Neither.
16:10 < killown> adrian_1908 I am using it already
16:11 < adrian_1908> killown: i assumed as much. i'd stick with it unless you need some killer feature it doesn't have.
16:13 < killown> adrian_1908 I am just looking around to see if there is new irc clients that could be better than hexchat
16:13 < Psi-Jack> killown: For starters you understand "better" ONLY applies to you, right? As in.. Only YOU could even know or guestimate what's better or not for you.
16:14 < killown> Psi-Jack, so I want your "better" then I will check if it's really better
16:15 < Pusteblume> but apple knows whats good for you
16:15 < killown> haha
16:16 < Psi-Jack> Well, I use Hexchat, so there.
16:18 < iflema> and click the b button
16:19  * Psi-Jack looks at the big red glowing button labeled b....
16:19 < iflema> do a /lastlog and click the b button
16:19 < iflema> theres no tabs
16:19 < iflema> or is there
16:19 < iflema> no merges
16:19 < iflema> focus
16:20 < CrazyTux> triceratux, ok
16:29 < phinxy> What module should I disable to get past this boot ERROR? http://termbin.com/9stym
16:31 < Psi-Jack> u-Boot! Embedded linux detected.
16:32 < revel> Rockchip.
16:33 < phinxy> Trying out the Slackware image
16:36 < phinxy> I didnt see the "only x86 parking" sign
16:37 < simon22> Anybody got a suggestion on how to prevent automounting of certain partitions? I have a script that partitions an sdcard and then I want to mount it to a particular place instead of the default...
16:37 < Psi-Jack> phinxy: It's not. Just embedded makes a huge difference. ;)
16:38 < Psi-Jack> simon22: your question is lacking details, problem, and what you're actually trying to do.
16:39 < peetaur2> simon22: normally you just don't enable any automount stuff and it doesn't automount....so what do you have enabled?
16:39 < MrElendig> why not just update the path?
16:39 < peetaur2> ie. there is no default behavior to mount, or to mount anything to any specific default location
16:39 < MrElendig> that you are looking for the script in
16:41 < HighMemoryDaemon> What's the best way to make a bootable USB that uses up the entire space of the flash drive?
16:41 < HighMemoryDaemon> It seems to uses the minimum amount based on the ISO.
16:42 < EvilRoey> HighMemoryDaemon: I remember the likes of you.  Back in those days though we said TSRs.
16:42 < revel> Terribly sad rheumatic?
16:42 < MrElendig> HighMemoryDaemon: sounds like a xyproblem
16:43 < HighMemoryDaemon> xyproblem?
16:43 < simon22> peetaur2: I have no clue, this is a linuxmint and I know virtually nothing about this distribution
16:43 < WhiteDevil> dont all distro be basiclly the same thing ?
16:44 < MrElendig> HighMemoryDaemon: what is the actual use case? what are you actually trying to do?
16:44 < simon22> Psi-Jack: I am trying to write a bash script that will create partitions on an sd card and initialize them with data but the desktop environment is interfering by automounting my new partitions
16:44 < revel> WhiteDevil: Yes, they're all distributions of the Linux kernel and various software.
16:44 < MrElendig> just have your script umount first?
16:44 < Psi-Jack> That's as vague as the first time you said it...
16:45 < WhiteDevil> i dont think there is much integration of software difference is there
16:45 < WhiteDevil> besides the package manager and how it handles installation and removal
16:45 < simon22> Psi-Jack: Hm...maybe you could ask a specific question?
16:45 < simon22> I don't know what you're looking for.
16:45 < Psi-Jack> simon22: What are you trying to accomplish? What issues are you getting? What is the actual end-goal of what you're trying to do?
16:49 < simon22> Psi-Jack: I am trying to create a bootable sd card for an embedded board. I know which commands to enter to make it happen but I want to automize the process. The automounting of new partitions that my gui is doing is stopping me from mounting things where I actually want them.
16:49 < simon22> automate x)
16:50 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm.. automounting should only be occurring on access, not on partition creation.
16:51 < runjutsu> so.. I was going to get into electronics.. get an IC-programmer, an electronics book, soldering iron, breadboard, components.. and so forth. I thought about all the amazing things I could do with it. But it's expensive and takes time that I can use on programming and math instead. No fun RC-circuits for me :(.. no oscilloscope.. no physical neural nets. Now, what does this mean to embedded linux? Should I work with embedded teams or learn
16:51 < runjutsu> electronics myself or just skip electronics alltogether?
16:52 < MrElendig> runjutsu: eh, you can start out on a budget <100€ without much trouble
16:52 < simon22> Psi-Jack: everything is automatically mounted and a file browser is opened
16:52 < Psi-Jack> runjutsu: Choose.
16:52 < Psi-Jack> :p
16:52 < simon22> Some linuxmint feature
16:52 < simon22> not to bad in general :)
16:52 < Psi-Jack> simon22: Then linuxmint is broken.
16:53 < Psi-Jack> That is not how udisks is supposed to work. :p
16:53 < peetaur2> runjutsu: why should we choose for you? ask a fortune cookie instead
16:53 < peetaur2> but don't eat it....those things are nasty
16:53 < lilltiger> Random Fortune: I've run DOOM more in the last few days than I have the last few months. I just love debugging ;-) 	-- Linus Torvalds
16:54 < runjutsu> MrElendig: I can get a good start with 500€. That'll learn me a lot of electronics BUT I could just as well spend that time with a cheap pen and paper and free mathematic books
16:54 < Psi-Jack> lilltiger: Real or bot?
16:54 < lilltiger> Psi-Jack: real
16:55 < Psi-Jack> Eggselent. Thank you. :)
16:55 < Psi-Jack> That was just fast. LOL
16:55 < lilltiger> Psi-Jack: Althought, that is a big question, maybe we all are bots created by more advanced beings that just simulates us! Althought, I find it hard to belive that any simulation would ever come up with Java..
16:56 < jhaenchen> dang whats happening in this channel
16:56 < jhaenchen> are y'all questioning existence again
16:56 < WhiteDevil> java is superior
16:56 < WhiteDevil> nah kidding python is
16:56 < Psi-Jack> lilltiger: We're just the computers looking for t he ultimate question.
16:56 < lilltiger> Psi-Jack: konversation have some quick commans like /fortune
16:56 < peetaur2> and don't forget the (brass) brush... a brass brush actually works for cleaning a soldering iron unlike a wet sponge like they insanely teach you despite the fact that molten metal does not disolve in water nor get sucked up by a sponge
16:57 < WhiteDevil> umm
16:57 < WhiteDevil> that made no sense what so ever
16:57 < WhiteDevil> i am gonna go eat some grapes now
16:57 < MrElendig> dry paper is actually one of the most effective ways to clean a tip from excess solder
16:58 < WhiteDevil> are you guys now electronic hobbiests ?
16:58 < lilltiger> Human flesh works very well also
16:58 < MrElendig> lilltiger: but thermal shocks the tip, reducing longlivety
16:59 < lilltiger> MrElendig: true
16:59 < MrElendig> same with some of the chemicals you get on the tip
16:59 < Psi-Jack> WhiteDevil: Well, I do make my own home automation and security stuff, for my own house.
16:59 < MrElendig> fat and tips does not go well together
16:59 < WhiteDevil> thats cool psi
16:59 < lilltiger> afk, back tomorrow :D
16:59 < WhiteDevil> that would be a nice project to work on
16:59 < WhiteDevil> jack
17:01 < CrazyTux> are distros like Mint, Ubuntu the only newbie friendly distros? I mean the distros tailor made for newbies and windows users.
17:01 < phinxy> Idea: disable the driver causing the boot halt, the kernel should not load any wifi drivers - there is no wifi-hardware.  Assuming the module is called "sdio", is this bootargs correct:  "rd.blacklist=sdio module_blacklist=sdio".  I found that on Arch Wiki, perhaps it does not translate to embedded Linux?
17:02 < phinxy> CrazyTux• I recently flushed a laptop clean and installed Elementary OS.  It's GUI is kind of like a Mac (I guess)
17:03 < CrazyTux> phinxy, ok. Elementary also is based on Ubuntu.
17:04 < CrazyTux> phinxy, btw, does it have a big enough team and community?
17:09 < Psi-Jack> phinxy: Yeaah, but still based on Debian.
17:10 < Psi-Jack> If you want something totally unique, designed specifically for desktop/laptop use and development, Solus is unique, and yet very good.
17:16 < CrazyTux> Psi-Jack, yes. I have tried Solus once. It looks impressive.
17:17 < Psi-Jack> Solus was impressive enough to make an old long-timer of Linux switch to it in just a couple days of looking at it.
17:17 < brettgilio> I am fond of Solus in a few ways, but I am heavily skeptical of their package management system.
17:18 < Psi-Jack> brettgilio: I'm... Not. Their package management system is quite impressive. Every single package is always built in a chroot'd sandbox.
17:19 < Psi-Jack> eopkg isn't perfect, but it's getting a new rebuild in C (from python), named sol, which'll still work with .eopkg packages.
17:19 < Psi-Jack> eopkg history, though.... Something mostly lacking in most package/repo management solutions is history, what's been done recently. Not as powerful as yum/dnf history, but sufficient enough to be useful.
17:22 < Psi-Jack> brettgilio: what specifically are you skeptical about?
17:27 < Psi-Jack> The eagle has landed..
17:27 < eagle> eeeek....
17:28  * eagle flies away...
17:28 < Psi-Jack> ... and flown the coop immediately afterwards. :)
17:32 < rocketmagnet> in etc/fstab, what does i need for parameters to make an ext3/4 hdd read/writeable not only by root but by a specific user, i tried uid=1000 but does thorws me an error :/
17:33 < Psi-Jack> rocketmagnet: You don't.
17:33 < Psi-Jack> That's a POSIX thing. Permissions on the filesystem after mounting is proper, not mount options for this.
17:39 < ally2000> your mom gay
17:40 < revel> your sister a mister
17:40 < ally2000> no u
17:41 < Pentode> such intellectual prowess
17:41 < Psi-Jack> ally2000: There's a channel policy in here regarding attitude and language.
17:41 < ally2000> ok
17:41 < Psi-Jack> For one, Standard English is a general requirement, so no "u", but instead "you"
17:43 < ally2000> Psi-Jack: no u
17:43 < Psi-Jack> No, "you".
17:43 < Psi-Jack> Get it right, or get gone.
17:43 < ally2000> Psi-Jack: no
17:43 < ally2000> Psi-Jack: u
17:43 < Psi-Jack> Then you are just trolling. Bye bye.
17:43 < ally2000> fuck
17:43 < ally2000> u
17:43 < Psi-Jack> !op ally2000 Trolling
17:44 < ally2000> u crazy
17:44 < ally2000> watcha watcha watchaaa
17:44 < ally2000> u cant ban me
17:45 < revel> An op can.
17:45 < ally2000> im da king of all u nerds
17:45 < ally2000> noob
17:45 < brettgilio> ally2000: you bored as fuck.
17:45 < rocketmagnet> hmpf, i tried now many options and i can't find it in the help either, what options do i have to pass to fstab to make the mounted device owned by another user/group ? it defaults to root no matter if i'm using: defaults,user,exec :/
17:45 < ally2000> suck my cock
17:45 < Psi-Jack> brettgilio: No need to feed the troll.
17:46 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Handy? ;)
17:46 < ally2000> brettgilio: dont feed me
17:46 < Bashing-om> rocketmagnet: ext file system the access rights are set at the mount point .
17:47 < ally2000> goodbye motherfuckers
17:47 < DrJ> bye
17:47 < prussian> rocketmagnet: uid= gid=
17:47 < rocketmagnet> Bashing-om: what does that mean for me ? does i  have to set the owner/group of the dest. directory to the user/group i want to ?
17:48 < prussian> as mount options
17:48 < prussian> might only impact fat filesystems though
17:48 < revel> Or other ones with no POSIX/UNIX/whatever permissions.
17:48 < prussian> gvfs and other fuse--userspace things, etc mgiht be able to mask these for you.
17:49 < prussian> ya, that. bindfs. that fuse thing
17:49 < prussian> idk how gvfs does things. maybe it doesn't. i don't remember
17:51 < rocketmagnet> Bashing-om: it worked :) i changed the filemod to the user/group i wanted and it worked out of the box :)
17:51 < rocketmagnet> thanks alot man
17:53 < CrazyTux> does the kind of packages used (like deb or rpm or other) affect the distro's stability and security?
17:53 < revel> No.
17:54 < Bashing-om> rocketmagnet: Glad it helped :)
18:18 < EvilRoey> methyl: aren't you a group ?
18:25 < Psi-Jack> So I had a nice productive weekend. Soon my code changes will be in all of your Linux distributions. Muahaha.
18:25 < lnnb> in my distro too?
18:25 < Psi-Jack> Yes
18:25 < lnnb> what change
18:26 < Psi-Jack> A change I did in NetworkManager
18:26 < Psi-Jack> Grins
18:26 < lnnb> i don't use that crap
18:26 < Psi-Jack> Why not? NetworkManager is good stuff.
18:26 < lnnb> wtf does it even do
18:26 < lnnb> i use ip
18:26 < ldlework> manages the network
18:26 < ldlework> duh
18:26 < Psi-Jack> It manages a network.
18:26 < azarus> in a horribly unreliable way
18:26 < Psi-Jack> Or multiple networks.
18:27 < ldlework> How is it unreliable?
18:27 < ldlework> I've been using that applet for like.. 10 or more years it feels like.
18:27 < ldlework> Click the applet, click the network, get connected.
18:27 < Psi-Jack> The applet part is different.
18:28 < azarus> It fails in the funniest ways, especially on non-standard systems
18:28 < azarus> 802.1X? good luck
18:28 < Psi-Jack> azarus like?
18:28 < ldlework> The applet is an applet ontop but that doesn't really bear on my reply.
18:29 < azarus> either I'm dumb or it just doesn't handle network bonds/bridges awfully
18:29 < azarus> but now, with my own scripts, smooth sailing
18:29 < Psi-Jack> That's working just fine
18:29 < ldlework> To be fair, I am not using bridges, ever.
18:29 < HaMsTeRs> not sure why the heck ubuntu removed ifconfig
18:29 < ldlework> just getting on wifi on a laptop or ethernet
18:29 < prussian> because ifconfig is harmful to health
18:29 < HaMsTeRs> beside ifconfig what else command it removed?  now makes me feel old
18:29 < Psi-Jack> I do bonding and bridging just five with NetworkManager.
18:29 < azarus> i use bridges 100% of the time on my laptop
18:29 < lnnb> oh it's for wifi?
18:30 < lnnb> i used to use that supplicant thingamabob
18:30 < ldlework> wpa_supplicant
18:30 < lnnb> yaaaa that's the one
18:30 < Psi-Jack> lnnb: works great for wifi.
18:32 < azarus> /etc/network/interfaces works fine for me, since I'm on busybox
18:33 < Psi-Jack> Ewww busybox.
18:33 < azarus> i find it very nice
18:34 < azarus> does everything you expect from most *nix tools
18:34 < Psi-Jack> I mean it's okay for watered down crap.
18:35 < anonymoususer> https://www.denic.de/service/tools/nast/
18:35 < azarus> busybox tar's options are understandable and easy to read, GNU tar... blergh
18:35 < Psi-Jack> Busybox 's ps is utterly putrid.
18:35 < azarus> I do have procps installed
18:35 < anonymoususer> what should i write in the first field of the nameserver?
18:35 < lnnb> write " " see if it breaks soemthing
18:37 < Psi-Jack> anonymoususer: well... Ask a question that makes sense. Maybe link a site that's actually in English too...
18:38 < anonymoususer> psi-jack https://www.denic.de/en/service/tools/nast/
18:38 < Psi-Jack> anonymoususer: okay.. Put your primary dns resolver.
18:39 < prussian> busybox just has hidden bugs. i've dealt with one recently and work around 2 i know of
18:40 < Psi-Jack> I wonder if busybox fixed their tar as well yet.
18:40 < Psi-Jack> wts: would you mind keeping the nick changes to a minimum?
18:40 < anonymoususer> and how do i get my primary dns resolver
18:41 < anonymoususer> i have no plan who is it
18:41 < prussian> dhcp?
18:41 < azarus> Psi-Jack: how do you mean? tar works fine
18:41 < anonymoususer> my primary dns resolver of my server or what dns
18:41 < Psi-Jack> azarus: look it up. Many archives had a vulnerability about extracting below paths it was extracting to.
18:41 < anonymoususer> or the dns server which is responsible for my zone
18:42 < azarus> Psi-Jack: i know.
18:42 < Psi-Jack> Archivers
18:42 < SuperSeriousCat> if you use dig you see what server responds if thats what you are after, anonymoususer
18:43 < Psi-Jack> anonymoususer: if you don't understand this  you really shouldn't be running this...
18:43 < anonymoususer> and if i never run this i will never practically understand this
18:44 < wts> Psi-Jack: just ignore name changes...
18:44 < wts> side note, I was trying to get a new three char nick...
18:44 < wts> so I am probably going to stick to this one now, thx
18:44 < azarus> anonymoususer: well then learn it
18:44 < wts> but hells... I would kill for getting "t"
18:44 < ldlework> Step 2: Draw the rest of the fucking owl.
18:44 < azarus> exactly
18:45 < ldlework> lol
18:45 < azarus> i mean, aren't there channels for dns?
18:45 < ldlework> doubtful
18:47 < SuperSeriousCat> /msg alis list dns
18:47 < SuperSeriousCat> #dns got 130 users
18:47 < jnewt> having trouble using usb devices on my computer.   i tracked down a libusb error about requiring write access and checked the /dev/bus/###/### device and confirmed that they are being mounted with only rw access for root.  did a chmod and fixed the issue, but unplugging / plugging causes the issue to return (and usually it's a different bus / device id too.   ideas on how to fix the reocurring issue?
18:48 < lnnb> jnewt: hotplug daemon like udev, mdev, etc
18:50 < Psi-Jack> wts: You can do such things without being in massively large channels with 2k+ users..
18:50 < wts> Psi-Jack: I can do it whereever I want to
18:50 < Psi-Jack> Sure, And flooding a channel with nick changes can result in your ban, too.
18:50 < wts> I changed my nick two times
18:50 < wts> so stfu
18:51 < ldlework> lol
18:51 < Psi-Jack> 5 actually.
18:51 < Psi-Jack> Oh, no, sorry, 6. :)
18:51 < ldlework> no one cares
18:52 < wts> yeah, at least we have something to write about...
18:52 < SuperSeriousCat> What do you expect to happen as you change nick several times? Just pick one and stick with it. No one care about others nicks
18:53 < Psi-Jack> And also, ldlework, kindly mind the language. :)
18:53 < wts> mind the fricken language
18:53 < wts> mofo
18:53  * ldlework ignores Psi-Jack
18:57 < napalmgrenade__> Hey I'm trying to figure out how to set command line flags for a program that uses a yaml file, but don't know how to write the lines in yaml...can anyone help me?
18:58 < Psi-Jack> That's pretty vague, napalmgrenade__.
18:58 < prussian> what
18:58 < napalmgrenade__> so I'm using a program called logstash, and it requires me to use these flags when I run the executable" -f /etc/logstash/conf.d/logstash-syslog.conf --path.setting /etc/logstash"
18:59  * Psi-Jack 's eyes start to glaze over watching and waiting.
19:00 < Lope> if I set a bash process's cpu affinity, will programs it starts have the same affinity settings?
19:00 < Psi-Jack> Lope: TIAS
19:00 < Lope> meaning: do child processes inherit CPU affinity of parent
19:00 < Lope> Psi-Jack, I'm not familiar with that acronym
19:00 < prussian> uh, try it and see I'm guessing
19:01 < Psi-Jack> ^
19:01 < Lope> well the child processes my parent is starting last 1 second
19:01 < Psi-Jack> Try It And See
19:01 < Lope> so it's a bit hard to test
19:01 < Lope> with my current script
19:01 < Lope> but alrighty then
19:01 < prussian> pretty sure children inherit whatever niceness from parent though
19:01 < prussian> could be wrong though
19:03 < prussian> I usually see people do like ionice ... -p $$ in scripts. but without doing it myself i can't say for sure
19:04 < Lope> yes, affinity inherits
19:04 < Lope> is inherited, I mean.
19:04 < wts> Psi-Jack: I have to go back to my old nick for a second... don't cry please
19:04 < Psi-Jack> You can /part too, until you're done. :p
19:28 < nevodka> pulseaudio and bluetoothctl both say my headphones are connected
19:28 < nevodka> my headphones indicated they were connected
19:28 < nevodka> yet my audio is still going out of analog
19:29 < Psi-Jack> Did you move the sound stream to the bluetooth?
19:30 < nevodka> in my past experience connecting via bluetoothctl would move it
19:30 < Psi-Jack> That's possible to make happen, too.
19:30 < nevodka> I tried selecting from my pulseaudio menu the bluetooth headphones and it did the same effect as connecting via bluetoothctl
19:31 < nevodka> It has the headphones selected now instead of analog
19:31 < nevodka> yet analog still plays
19:32 < Psi-Jack> Is your bluetooth adapter a broadcom?
19:35 < nevodka> yep
19:37 < triceratux> hrm https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/07/02/linux_makes_suse_sold_for_a_cool_2535bn/
19:39 < royal_screwup21> I downloaded an IDE that required me to unzip several files in a directory of my choosing. My question is: what's the best place to store these files?
19:40 < oerheks> royal_screwup21, what does the manual give?  "an IDE" is so vague
19:40 < royal_screwup21> oerheks: https://www.jetbrains.com/clion/download/#section=linux it doesn't mention anything in that regard
19:41 < oerheks> I have no clue too, not knowing what those zips are
19:43 < Psi-Jack> royal_screwup21: depends. Do you want it system wide or just for your user?
19:43 < royal_screwup21> Psi-Jack: system wide
19:43 < oerheks> unicersal would be /opt/
19:43 < Psi-Jack> Well then /opt
19:45 < royal_screwup21> ah cool thanks folks
19:45 < Psi-Jack> More specifically /opt/<name> for each thing
19:47 < royal_screwup21> Psi-Jack: so I unzipped it and I got several directories like plugins, jre64, lib etc. Should I create /opt/Clion and then stuff all of those dirsinside that? Or is there no need to create Clion?
19:48 < Psi-Jack> Yes
19:49 < Psi-Jack> Isolated per overall software bundle to each their own /opt/<name>
20:00 < MrElendig> royal_screwup21: just stuff it in $HOME imo
20:24 < nothos> Hey all, what'd the general consensus be for a simple setup for a redundant remote file system? It'll only really be accessed from 3 boxes and mostly just read only
20:25 < nothos> Ceph seems a bit overkill for this, but I'm wary of just using NFS from bad experience
20:25 < dongbag> Hi
20:26 < MrElendig> ceph isn't much heaver than nfs so..
20:26 < MrElendig> (and handles network issues better)
20:26 < dalu> I had good experience with gluster
20:26 < nothos> MrElendig Yeah, though in experience ceph was a bit of a pain to get setup, plus we'd likely be using cephfs which I don't think is production ready yet?
20:26 < nothos> dalu I was wondering about it, how easy is setup?
20:27 < dalu> it was quite painless
20:27 < dalu> and it worked, must lees complicated than RBD for instance
20:27 < dalu> but it's not for databases
20:28 < nothos> dalu Oh no, no DB. Not that crazy
20:28 < dalu> :)
20:28 < dongbag> I have a small IoT device w/ internet connectivity, I want to send packets to a server on where I know it's IP (amazon)
20:28 < dongbag> each data chunk is like 1MiB
20:28 < dongbag> What's a good protocal for me to use?
20:28 < Dagmar> fanTCP
20:28 < Dagmar> er TCP
20:29 < dongbag> that seems pretty low level
20:29 < maarhart> I'm trying to listen using two bluetooth headphones. how can I do this?
20:30 < Dagmar> maarhart: Only very badly
20:30 < MrElendig> dongbag: this is a solved problem btw, search and you will find about 2000 different scripts for doing it
20:30 < MrElendig> dongbag: people even sell them as a service (see dyndns)
20:30 < nothos> dongbag netcat?
20:31 < dongbag> that's what I'm doing
20:31 < dongbag> I just thought it would be a solved problem, I guess I dont jknow what to look for
20:32 < dongbag> Is there a name to what I'm trying to do?
20:32 < FManTropyx> what's my default gateway? it seems that this information is not shown by ifconfig
20:32 < MrElendig> FManTropyx: 1. don't use ifconfig
20:33 < MrElendig> FManTropyx: 2.  ip route
20:33 < maarhart> Dagmar: I want the bad solution
20:33 < MrElendig> ip route show default
20:33 < nothos> MrElendig All I'm going to say is that they can rip netstat out of my cold, dead hands\
20:33 < MrElendig> nothos: ss is imo nicer in most cases
20:33 < FManTropyx> does IPv6 have default gateways?
20:34 < maarhart> I'm trying to listen using two bluetooth headphones. how can I do this?
20:34 < MrElendig> FManTropyx: https://baturin.org/docs/iproute2/
20:34 < nothos> MrElendig I just prefer the actual output of netstat, I find it easier to read
20:34 < nothos> Terrible reason
20:34 < nothos> But there you go :D
20:34 < MrElendig> FManTropyx: http://inai.de/2008/02/19
20:34 < dongbag> I think Advanced Message Queuing Protocol is what I am looking for
20:36 < dalu> binary data dongbag ?
20:36 < dongbag> yeah binary data
20:36 < dongbag> it's a stream of a bunch of ADCs
20:37 < FManTropyx> why does my host have an active connection to the nfs port of an unknown host on the Internet?
20:37 < dalu> I like gRPC but it isn't really for binary data :)
20:37 < FManTropyx> should I be worried?
20:38 < dongbag> can a AMPQ broker and client be on the same host
20:38 < dongbag> does that make sense
20:38 < Ignacy> I moved some big file to another disk. I've created a symbolic link to the file, but need to change ownership on that link. How do I change ownership of the link and not the file linked?
20:39 < Ignacy> sudo chown libvirt-qemu:kvm VirtFiles gives no error, but the owner of the file remains the same.
20:41 < FManTropyx> is there a command to do a reverse DNS lookup?
20:41 < koala_man> host and dig
20:43 < compdoc> Ignacy, what owner remains?
20:43 < twainwek> hmmm random question perhaps. how are subtitles stored in say an mp4 file
20:43 < morfin> lol
20:44 < morfin> i broke shutdown and scheduled shutdown process to 1920-05-26 14:24:30 +04
20:44 < morfin> no idea what a heck
20:45 < Ignacy> compdoc, my own, as I created it as my default user.
20:45 < morfin> how do i schedule shutdown to exact time?
20:45 < morfin> with year, month, day, hours, minutes and seconds
20:46 < Dagmar> `man at`
20:47 < dalu> ^ requires atd
20:47 < Ignacy> Dagmar, proper synthax would be: morfin, use 'at' command, man
20:47 < compdoc> Ignacy, I have a seperate drive for guest files and its managed by kvm. when a file is in use by a running guest the owner is libvirt-qemu kvm, but when the file is not in use, its root root.
20:47 < Dagmar> Ignacy: If you weren't willing to answer, you don't get to critique
20:47 < morfin> morfin, use 'at' command, man
20:47 < compdoc> let kvm worry about it
20:47 < morfin> :D
20:48 < morfin> oh i thought hthere is bot
20:49 < Ignacy> I wanted to tell him to use bash mathematics to convert his date to minutes, but you've beaten me to the answer :(
20:49 < Ignacy> compdoc, thanks for suggestion. I'll try creating link as root and see how it works
20:54 < notmike> Bash math?
20:55 < FManTropyx> can /boot be ext4?
20:55 < Ignacy> like shutdown +((60*24*365*number_of_years)) and such
20:55 < dalu> if ext4 is supported by the kernel, yes FManTropyx
20:56 < Ignacy> i'm quite sure it can't be a logical volume
20:56 < FManTropyx> does 'all' work with a logical volume?
20:57 < Ignacy> define all, FmanTropyx
20:57 < FManTropyx> the remaining free space on the drive - but now I don't know how to define partitions on two drives with this script
20:58 < Elodin> hello, is cp the prefered way for me to copying data from a mounted hfs.iso image to my disk?
20:59 < Psi-Jack> Elodin: Sure.
20:59 < FManTropyx> bah, I'll just leave the second drive untouched and configure it later
20:59 < Ignacy> Elodin, you can also use rsync. might be more suitable for bigger files. and it has better "progress" notifications.
21:00 < MiningMarsh> Anyone know how to prevent 0.0.0.0 from binding against a specific interface?
21:00 < Elodin> its mostly documents, i came here asking cuz it's freezing at some points and i don't know why.
21:00 < Ignacy> FmanTropyx https://www.linuxtrainingacademy.com/lvm/
21:00 < MiningMarsh> I'm using a piece of software that binds it and I need another service on the same host with the same port
21:00 < MiningMarsh> I have a seperate NIC I can bind the second service against
21:00 < MiningMarsh> But the service binding 0.0.0.0 prevents me from doing so
21:01 < FManTropyx> is half a gig enough for the boot partition?
21:01 < dalu> so bind to the desired iface's IP
21:01 < Ignacy> That's a book example on how big it should be, Fman
21:01 < MiningMarsh> I can't easily
21:01 < MiningMarsh> It's IPA
21:02 < MiningMarsh> They assume 0.0.0.0 is available as they assume they are the only service running
21:02 < FManTropyx> Ignacy, thank you for the assistance and that link - I shall look into it!
21:02 < MiningMarsh> I've been trying to get around it with network namespaces
21:02 < MiningMarsh> But the device used to bridge to the namespace needs an IP...
21:02 < MiningMarsh> ...and just ends up getting binded against as well
21:04 < Ignacy> FmanTropyx, np, I was glad I could help :)
21:05 < Braus-Laptop> mic test
21:05 < Braus-Laptop> there we go
21:05 < phogg> Braus-Laptop: no one hears you
21:05 < Braus-Laptop> im about to rip my hair out because of an audio driver
21:05 < dalu> woot 1:0 japan who would've thought
21:05 < Braus-Laptop> not audio
21:05 < Braus-Laptop> sorry, brain is shot
21:05 < Braus-Laptop> wireless adapter
21:05 < Braus-Laptop> i cannot get drivers to stick for anything
21:16 < MiningMarsh> How in the world is it not possible to sandbox away an interface so that 0.0.0.0 won't bind to it
21:16 < MiningMarsh> This seems like something we'd have with the push for sandboxing
21:16 < hexoroid> I am making mail exchange server because I am tired of companys ripping me off for 1tb of space they simply want too much.. i have couple imap acccounts and i need to move that mail to my other rig which is CentOS
21:17 < MiningMarsh> It seems like it exists but you have to sandbox everything using 0.0.0.0
21:17 < hexoroid> do i just copy the email files over FTP and but them inside mail folder
21:18 < FManTropyx> "Enabling SSH root login with password" nice
21:21 < Psi-Jack> FManTropyx: that is unwise.
21:24 < FManTropyx> I should look into using keys to log in
21:25 < phogg> hexoroid: copy them any way you like (but also don't use ftp, this is no longer the 90s)
21:34 < Ignacy> compdoc, to change owner of symbolic link you have to use -h option :D https://superuser.com/questions/68685/chown-is-not-changing-symbolic-link#68688
21:37 < bls> hexoroid: you'd be better served using something that deals directly with emails instead of raw files like imapsync
21:50 < Nixola_> I can't assemble a RAID array (temporarily made of one disk) because mdadm complains /dev/sda1 is busy
21:50 < Nixola_> how can I figure out why?
21:53 < phogg> Nixola_: is it mounted anywhere?
21:54 < Nixola_> phogg: nope
21:55 < phogg> Nixola_: if it's not mounted or a member of some other array it should not be able to be busy
21:55 < phogg> I don't know any way to detect business, though
22:09 < agent_white> Hey folks! I'm looking to dick around with audio programming in linux. It seems like the ALSA API is best suited for my needs, but documentation (alsa-project.org is down) seems rare... any tips on good places to dive in?
22:11 < qoxncyha> my ssh agent is not working, my colleague's is. any thoughts?
22:11 < qoxncyha> ssh <endpoint> -v shows "Requesting authentication agent forwarding." for him but not me
22:12 < FreeFull> agent_white: If you're trying to just output/record audio, interfacing with ALSA to do it might not be the best way
22:12 < FreeFull> Because ALSA doesn't have the nicest-to-use API
22:14 < agent_white> FreeFull: Alrighty. And yeah, essentially I'm looking at writing a SIP Client/UAC - so basic audio IO is the goal. What should I be looking into?
22:15 < FreeFull> agent_white: Maybe portaudio
22:16 < agent_white> Ah alrighty, libasound. I'll take a look. Thank you!
22:16 < FreeFull> libasound is ALSA
22:16 < agent_white> erm, not libasound. But yeah I'll check out portaudio. Looks like some good documentation is out there. Cheers.
22:17 < FreeFull> agent_white: Nice thing about Portaudio is that it'll be easier to get your code running on other OSes, if you want that
22:17 < MrElendig> agent_white: use something higher level than alsa
22:18 < flipcoder> +1 for portaudio
22:18 < MrElendig> agent_white: also, pulse have a high user base now so....
22:19 < DevilChaos> Hi all I'd like to ask for a little help here I know this isn't really Linux related but hopefully I might find some real time help with my problem I'm trying to sort out the radio and key space files on my darknet badge I made from scratch her is the link to the file I need to implement for the keys and I'd like to know how to run it https://github.com/thedarknet/defcon24/tree/master/badge/programmer
22:19 < agent_white> Good deal. Yeah any notion of sharing this is out the window - likely will be throwaway, since it's more for my own learning purposes, so an easy to absorb API is most important :)
22:23 < DevilChaos> Or at least point me in the right direction for looking for help as I'm struggling a bit
22:23 < sbef> Ehy guys
22:25 < sbef> I just freshly installed debian (q4os to be exact)
22:25 < triceratux> q4os ftw
22:26 < sbef> And I got some troubles.... keep getting hash sum dismatch every time I try to update apt! I tried all the solutions found on the net and I even changed the mirrors to download from but no changes
22:28 < triceratux> thats quite weird. i put in 2.5r1 & didnt observe any issues with the repos
22:29 < sbef> I dont understand why is this happening :/
22:29 < DevilChaos> Its the badge.py script I need to run but am unsure if o can do it through my mint laptop or have to use my air gapped windblows machine again
22:29 < sbef> Maybe coz i'm running the 32 bit version so I may get different troubles? triceratux:
22:30 < DevilChaos> What are the drivers like for the stlink blue pill?
22:38 < DevilChaos> Connection timed out I think did anyone reply to my question?
22:41 < esselfe> no
22:41 < sacules> no
22:42 < jim> what's a stlink blue pill?
22:43 < MrElendig> development board
22:43 < jim> oh ok... how does one connect to a computer (if it does)?
22:43 < MrElendig> comes with a bootloader like the arduino so that you can flash it over serial
22:43 < MrElendig> usb
22:44 < MrElendig> shows up as standard usb->serial device
22:44 < jim> yeah I got an arduino alike
22:44 < DevilChaos> Bummer never mind I'll perseveer and keep going tomorrow
22:44 < MrElendig> DevilChaos: no drivers needed
22:45 < MrElendig> DevilChaos: unless you have borked the bootloader on it it should simply pop up as /dev/ttyUSB*
22:45 < DevilChaos> Ah
22:45 < DevilChaos> Ok
22:45 < jim> do you have one?
22:46 < MrElendig> I have multiple of the chinese clones
22:46 < jim> MrElendig, what do you use em for?
22:46 < MrElendig> mostly just playing around, but I have used them for various automation and hid devices too
22:47 < MrElendig> and for fixing broken hardware
22:47 < DevilChaos> Thanks I'll give it a try in the morning
22:47 < MrElendig> DevilChaos: what are you trying to use it for?
22:47 < lightslategrey> Hi! I need to initialize undetermined number of network interfaces (initialize means run program I wrote to assign address, set some params etc.). Number of devices varies as system runs, they can be replaced and they can't be differenciated, so I can't predefine any persistent configuration. Also for some real reason I can't use NetworkManager (and its nice auto-create-default-connection feature) for these set of interfaces. How can I trigger
22:47 < lightslategrey> initialisation when eth appears? I on CentOS7/Fedora.
22:48 < DevilChaos> I have built the defcon24 darknet badge
22:48 < jim> do they have any IDE software (and/or toolchains) that run on a linux box?
22:48 < DevilChaos> For a project
22:48 < MrElendig> DevilChaos: if you have it loaded without usb support in the bootloader, then connect a serial device to A9/A10
22:49 < MrElendig> tx to A10, rx to A9
22:49 < MrElendig> power to 5v and G
22:49 < DevilChaos> Yup yup
22:50 < MrElendig> and move the top jumper to 1
22:50 < MrElendig> and press reset
22:50 < jim> will the board get power from usb?
22:50 < MrElendig> if you hook it up to usb yes
22:51 < MrElendig> has an onboard 3.3v regulator
22:51 < jim> sounds quicker :) but, it's good to know how to do it standalone
22:51 < DevilChaos> MrElendig will you be about tomorrow? For info while I'm trying this
22:52 < MrElendig> downside of enabeling the onchip usb support is that you have to drop the clock speed of the chip
22:52 < DLange> lightslategrey: sounds like an udev rule ... SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", RUN+="/sbin/themagiccecretlightslategreycode"
22:52 < pingfloyd> that's terrible
22:53 < pingfloyd> having to downclock to use onboard usb
22:53 < DevilChaos> Hi ping
22:53 < pingfloyd> h
22:53 < pingfloyd> hi
22:53 < neeasade> h
22:53 < MrElendig> well, depending on which variant and bootloader you use
22:53 < pingfloyd> haha, you made the exact same type
22:53 < pingfloyd> typo
22:54 < MrElendig> sidenote: grabbing one of the stlink v2 clones can be useful
22:55 < jim> DevilChaos, of course, you should write down the details MrElendig said so far
22:55 < jim> hipo??!
22:55 < pingfloyd> or better yet, you had logging in your irc client going
22:55 < pingfloyd> (hint)
22:55 < DevilChaos> Good idea Jim
22:56 < DevilChaos> Lol ping I'm on my phone and don't think I have it enabled
22:56 < DevilChaos> Doh
22:56 < pingfloyd> some of the android clients have logging
22:56 < MrElendig> eh, lots of guides online
22:56 < lightslategrey> DLange: Thanks, I already use for some things on them (run script that comes up with MAC-address, assign NM_UNMANAGED). These are quick scripts that runs under 0.2 sec. But my intitializing may take longer (ether DCHP ask or http on another iface). UDEV docs says it's not recommended. And it's for a reason - I seen problems usb_modeswitch faces because of that (I also have to workaround thou). So it seems udev RUN-rule is not an option.
22:56 < jim> DevilChaos, I got a arduino clone, I'm gonna try to put forth on it :)
22:56 < MrElendig> just google stm32f103 linux
22:56 < pingfloyd> for phone I use Andchat
22:57 < DevilChaos> Yea I'm on andchat
22:57 < pingfloyd> I haven't used it for some time, but I could swear it has logging
22:57 < DevilChaos> Thanks mrelendig will do
22:57 < pingfloyd> yep it does
22:57 < DevilChaos> Lol probably
22:58 < pingfloyd> just checked
22:58 < DevilChaos> I gathered
22:58 < DevilChaos> Lol
22:58 < lightslategrey> DLange: that's why I am asking. Udev is obvious choise and I am use it. But it seems in that case it's not gonna work reliably.
22:58 < DLange> lightslategrey: I have no idea what you are actually doing there, but you can make anything worse if you want to, like poll your i/fs every minute via a cron script
23:00 < DevilChaos> Bbl tomorrow ;)
23:00 < MrElendig> DevilChaos: stlink2 / j-link clones (or the original) can program and debug it over jtag which can be handy
23:00 < jim> DevilChaos have fun
23:00 < pingfloyd> polling would be even worse than using udev
23:00 < storge> the irc command /lastlog might work on android apps like andchat, perhaps try /lastlog MrElendig
23:00 < MrElendig> the stlink2 clines are <2€, the jlink ones are 10ish €
23:01 < lightslategrey> DLange, poll/subscribing to udev events would require to build reliable daemon. it's doable (I actually write another daemon to manage these devices) but it's a lot of work - to roll and debug another one for just that reason
23:01 < MrElendig> clones
23:01 < DevilChaos> I have a JTAG UART cable as well as the blue pill
23:01 < pingfloyd> lightslategrey: you probably should explain what you're trying to do more
23:01 < MrElendig> original is about 10x that
23:01 < pingfloyd> lightslategrey: what's an optimal method comes down the to details of what you're trying to accomplish
23:01 < jim> DevilChaos, so you could run the remote debugger thing?
23:01 < MrElendig> just remember to not power from usb and jtag/power pin at the same time, else you will release the magic smoke
23:02 < DLange> lightslategrey: right, so use RUN+ and it will work as udev doesn't care whether your code runs 10 secs. Which is ages in network time.
23:02 < DevilChaos> Yea done that already  mrelendig
23:03 < MrElendig> isolated programmers are nice, but expensive
23:03 < DevilChaos> Jim not sure I'm probably going to spend a few hours banging my head with it all tomorrow morning
23:03 < lightslategrey> pingfloyd, I write a software that maintain tens of GSM channels. now it's work with ppp and it works good, but now also want to introduce CDC devs support. you know it's not relevant to question. Currently I need I way to initialise these eths.
23:03 < MrElendig> having a usb isolator or two in your drawer can be handy though
23:04 < MrElendig> (and they are fairly cheap if you grab a usb 1.1 one)
23:04 < DevilChaos> 4 quid it cost me
23:05 < DevilChaos> The stm32 controller not the whole badge
23:05 < pingfloyd> one good tool for avoiding magical smoke is to get yourself a multimeter if you don't got one already.
23:06 < DevilChaos> I'm an electrician so blunt to have one in the cupboard ping
23:06 < DevilChaos> Bound*
23:07 < pingfloyd> what's great is you can get them for a song nowadays
23:07 < pingfloyd> I remember when they used to be analog and cost an arm and a leg
23:08 < MrElendig> just don't use those cheap ones on anything high energy
23:08 < pingfloyd> my dad has a big case to carry his meters (those weren't even multi, so he had to have one of each).
23:08 < jim> so you can get em both for a song, an arm and a leg?
23:08 < pingfloyd> the cheap ones are fine for most applications
23:08 < DevilChaos> Yeah very cumbersome
23:08 < pingfloyd> an electrician is going to want a nice one of course
23:09 < DevilChaos> Yes lol
23:09 < pingfloyd> I have two
23:09 < DevilChaos> Multi clamp meter
23:09 < MrElendig> very cheap ones are fine for low energy, not anything else
23:09 < pingfloyd> my favorite one has the amp clamp
23:09 < MrElendig> DevilChaos: multimeter bit on those are usually trash :/
23:09 < pingfloyd> always try to get one with a clamp
23:10 < DevilChaos> Not the one I have cost me over a hundred pounds
23:10 < pingfloyd> some of the cheaper ones come with clamp these days, which is nice
23:11 < anonymoususer> im not sure if i am missing something but if i want to run my own dns server for domain mydomain.com, i need to configure a masterzone for "mydomain.com" and there i just add my records or not?
23:11  * MrElendig have picked red uni-t plastic pieces off the floor after one of them decided to explode
23:11 < MrElendig> thankfully no one was holding it when it did so
23:12 < DevilChaos> Not a nice scenario
23:12 < anonymoususer> when i try to setup my server as the dns for my domain, my providers websites says that the dns server is not authorized... so what am i missing?
23:12 < jim> anonymoususer, you mean run your own dns? brave :)
23:12 < jim> that's a lot of work
23:12 < anonymoususer> jim yeah maybe
23:13 < anonymoususer> but at first i need to get it to work
23:13 < jim> is it configured as a master and you have the soa record for your domain?
23:14 < MrElendig> high voltage spike probably ignited a spark inside, and the since it was hooked up to the supply for an industrial oven, there were *a lot* of energy available
23:14 < MrElendig> was*
23:14 < pingfloyd> without the clamp, checking the current is what puts the meter at risk since you have to make the meter part of the circuit.
23:14 < MrElendig> the supposed catIII rating didn't seem to help much :p
23:14 < DevilChaos> What is the voltage in the states ? 110v?
23:15 < pingfloyd> yeah
23:15 < pingfloyd> for basic mains
23:15 < pingfloyd> but we also have 220 and 440
23:15 < DLange> if it runs
23:15 < pingfloyd> for certain applications
23:15 < DLange> doesn't always these days
23:15 < pingfloyd> like certain appliances
23:15 < MrElendig> only catIII 300V too
23:15 < DevilChaos> Ah
23:15 < MrElendig> was a ut210D
23:16 < pingfloyd> I don't think you usually see 440 in residential very often though
23:16 < DevilChaos> More for industry
23:16 < pingfloyd> in those cases, someone probably ran it in afterward for a client that uses special equipment etc.
23:16 < jim> 220 for things like elec stoves is pretty common though
23:17 < pingfloyd> e.g., someone with a shop at home
23:17 < MrElendig> mostly 230/380V IT here
23:17 < pingfloyd> I'm sure you probably have to get special permits
23:17 < MrElendig> a smatterting of TN-* and TT too
23:17 < Tazmain> Hi all, I need some help with freedesktop menu's. https://specifications.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/menu-spec-latest.html#adding-items, the Directory here, <Directory where is that pointing to ?
23:19 < MrElendig> Tazmain: Menu -> Directory1 -> item1, item2, item3; Directory2 -> item1, item2, item3
23:19 < DevilChaos> Got to go be back on in the morning
23:19 < DevilChaos> Bye
23:20 < Tazmain> MrElendig, o/ so is directory like subfolders, and not actual directories on the file system, ?
23:20 < MrElendig> er I might be thinking wrong
23:21 < MrElendig> stupid freedesktop.org doesn't load for me atm
23:21 < pingfloyd> Tazmain: which sentence are you referring to?
23:22 < Tazmain> pingfloyd, in the XML file the <Directory tag
23:23 < Tazmain> the .menu file
23:23 < Tazmain> one forum said to create a /etc/xdg/menus/applications-merged dir as well to place that .menu file in for custom categories
23:23 < pingfloyd> you mean in the example further down?
23:23 < MrElendig> er yea remembered wrong, the Directory just specifies the .directory, which is used to store metadata for the menu item
23:24 < Tazmain> pingfloyd, yeah the  And finally, a .menu file needs to be provided that links it all togther:  after that
23:24 < pingfloyd> there, they are referencing a .directory file
23:24 < pingfloyd> so you put the path to that file there, if that's what you're asking
23:25 < pingfloyd> actually, looks like just the filename for that file suffices based on the example.
23:25 < Tazmain> I don't get where that .directory files needs to be? What is it for ?
23:26 < Tazmain> Thought I only needed .menu and .desktop
23:26 < pingfloyd> you need to create a .directory file too
23:26 < pingfloyd> right above the xml code example
23:27 < pingfloyd> and .directory file format looks much like the format of a .desktop file
23:27 < Tazmain> hmm I am unsure if I need to use /usr/local/share  or /usr/share for arch linux
23:27 < pingfloyd> Tazmain: for your own stuff, you should use /usr/local/share
23:28 < Tazmain> what is the .directory used for?
23:28 < jim> I think he said metadata
23:29 < Pentode> of all the liquids to go into the laptop it has to be sodium hypochlorite. :/
23:29 < jim> sounds like salt
23:29 < pingfloyd> "A .directory file needs to be installed to provide a title and icon for the sub-menu itself: "
23:29 < Pentode> sounds ionic
23:29 < Pentode> dont you think
23:29 < jim> ironically ionic
23:30 < Tazmain> pingfloyd, ooh
23:30 < pingfloyd> Tazmain: make sense now?
23:30 < jim> Pentode, never took chem, I dunno :)
23:30 < pingfloyd> hopefully you've got the gist down at least.  From there you should probably just experiment and play around with it.
23:32 < Tazmain> pingfloyd, yeah that makes more sense thanks.
23:32 < Tazmain> pingfloyd, I have one more question though inside of the /usr/share/applications/ , there are all the .desktop files, can I make a folder in there to add like 1400 more .desktop files?
23:34 < pingfloyd> Tazmain: you're welcome
23:35 < Tazmain> oh and what happens if you uninstall something and it doesn't remove the .desktop file ?
23:36 < pingfloyd> Tazmain: yep, looks like it "Please namespace the filename, as in "vendor-foo.desktop", or use a subdirectory of datadir/applications/ so you have "vendor/foo.desktop." "
23:36 < pingfloyd> Tazmain: if you created the .desktop, as apposed to a package installing it, it should not be removing them
23:37 < Tazmain> it should not, but now you have a .desktop file for an app that is not installed ?
23:37 < pingfloyd> would be bad form for uninstalling to touch those files
23:38 < Tazmain> okay where did you see the vendor-foo.desktop ?
23:38 < pingfloyd> if the idea is to set all of this up for say your application, then proper form would be to make a package that sets up all of that and also cleans out those files that it made.  I should leave anything customized alone still though.
23:39 < pingfloyd> and you'd want use /usr/share instead of /usr/local/share in that case
23:39 < pingfloyd> think of /usr/local as being the admin's own installations
23:39 < pingfloyd> like when you compile the program yourself
23:40 < Tazmain> so if I make a package that sets the up, I use /usr/local ?
23:40 < pingfloyd> if you make a package for the dist, you'd want to use the normal hierarchies (e.g., /usr/share instead of /usr/local/share)
23:41 < pingfloyd>  /usr/local is intended more for stuff installed outside of the dist
23:41 < Tazmain> oh this is like a grew area
23:41 < bls> then convention is that /usr/{bin,sbin,share,include,lib} is *only* controlled via the package manager. you don't add/remove/edit files there unless it's through a package
23:42 < pingfloyd> I don't know what that is.  But here's a reference you should bookmark. http://www.pathname.com/fhs/
23:42 < Tazmain> pingfloyd, I'll get to that bridge at a stage, but the subdir in the /usr/share/applications/, so if I make a folder called Tazmenu, where do I say Tazmenu/foo.dekstop? Or can I do category using Include><And><Category>Development</Category> ?
23:42 < pingfloyd> should also review, because I think it will make more sense after you read that.
23:43 < zenix_2k2> so guys i have a little problem here, usually the Files system interface looks like this --> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-omfXnS75kuM/TjK-YxLqAZI/AAAAAAAACRQ/v3-g6RFsgEY/s1600/PCMan+file+manager+in+ubuntu+11.04.png but mine for some reasons like a few minutes ago it looks like --> https://ibb.co/iBFFhJ, is there anyhow to re-change it ?
23:43 < zenix_2k2> and it is Ubuntu anyway
23:44 < pingfloyd> in other words, you're saying as far as being in pre-package stage of development?
23:44 < justsomeguy> pingfloyd: The new fhs, that is linux specific and maintained by the linux foundation is at refspecs.linuxbase.org
23:44 < justsomeguy> ..but it seems that all of the fhs standards are terribly out of date.
23:44 < lightslategrey> Suppose I have to write daemon that listens for new devices and runs some lenghty (5-10 seconds) code for each. 1. expose some endpoint (http, dbus) and build client application that in turn will be invoked from udevd rule 2. use libudev to monitor changes without putting rule into udevd. Which option is more reliable? And which is easier?
23:45 < bls> is the goal to avoid the easy solution and add udevd rules/triggers?
23:45 < bls> i.e. not sure what http has to do with this
23:46 < Tazmain> pingfloyd, mind just explaining that namepsace wioth the subdir ?
23:46 < lightslategrey> bls, udev docs says it not recommend for this (only very quick programs are ok)
23:46 < justsomeguy> lightslategrey: You probably want to use ⍘ udevadm monitor ⍘ to listen for new devices and collect attributes to match for.
23:46 < DLange> lightslategrey: did you even try RUN+ with your code?
23:47 < bls> lightslategrey: ah, so you need some sort of job queue/job runner
23:47 < bls> could probably be done with systemd
23:47 < pingfloyd> Tazmain: there's a few paths involved
23:48 < Tazmain> pingfloyd, well I would want a subdir because its easier to cleanup
23:48 < lightslategrey> DLange, I do know about RUN+ and use it for other related task. but 1) I tend to beilive udev docs 2) I seen how usb_modeswitch goes wrong because it can't finish it's work quickly enough. Also you can't fork and daemonise to continue, udev will terminate them
23:48 < zenix_2k2> uhm hello anyone ?
23:49 < Tazmain> pingfloyd, I need to build this list on tool run. so I want a subdir, but not sure how I tell the menu to just look there with a category
23:50 < DLange> lightslategrey: so the answer to my question is "no". Again, I advise trying it. But if you insist you're missing a nice MQ in your architecture, no worries, do it. It will secure your or somebody else's job longer term.
23:50 < pingfloyd> Tazmain: in that document where they reference say "sysconfdir", they're referring to this https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-0.6.html
23:50 < Tazmain> pingfloyd, it also says to go to sysconfdir/menus/application-merged
23:52 < lightslategrey> DLange, I don't totally understand what are you saying, sorry. I want it to be reliable because it bigger project and rest of it already reliably, don't want to make new parts worser than existing ones
23:52 < pingfloyd> so one example would be /usr/local/{desktop-directories,applications}/myapp/ and /etc/xdg/menus/applications-merged/
23:53 < pingfloyd> but it is more paths than because of there's other locations within homedir for user specific configuration
23:53 < lightslategrey> The question is whether to use RUN+="noity_my_custom_daemon --put-in-queue eth0 blah blah" or just listen for events within my_custom_daemon by means of libudev.
23:55 < Nixola_> can anybody help me figure out why mdadm says that a partition is busy and skips it?
23:56 < DLange> lightslategrey: the former because you get the whole configuration stuff for free with udev which you run anyways
23:57 < Tazmain> pingfloyd, so I added my /etc/xdg/menus/application-merged .menu file here, added my .directory file to /usr/local/share , now if I am in /usr/share/applications/ and I create my folder, how will it get picked up, I am using that <And><Category>
--- Log closed Tue Jul 03 00:00:02 2018