--- Log opened Thu Jul 12 00:00:34 2018
00:37 < triceratux> "I just started promoting Solus as the "best" Linux OS to friends and family, started supporting on Patreon, and installing it on all the machines. Awkward to run into this just after installing for my gf." https://solus-project.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11959
00:38 < Dan39> lol
00:39 < dunnousernamefn> chrome is the root of all evil
00:40 < dunnousernamefn> everyone knows firefox is the best
00:40 < prence`> :\
00:41 < triceratux> Solus Overpromotion Disorder (SOD). help is closer than you think
00:47 < flashpoint> hibernation on arch linux
00:56 < applecrumble> For a tcp connection, are skbuffs organized by connection, or altogether?
00:56 < ayecee> how do you mean?
00:58 < applecrumble> In the kernel, the skbuff struct has a linked list structure that it is a part of
00:58 < applecrumble> skbuff->next, skbuff->prev, skbuff->list
00:58 < nekoseam> :D
00:59 < applecrumble> I'm trying to figure out if that linked list is the different packets in a connection, or just every packet
01:00 < ayecee> i'm trying to figure out what this would be useful for
01:00 < applecrumble> intrusion detection
01:00 < ayecee> how so?
01:01 < applecrumble> http://kdd.ics.uci.edu/databases/kddcup99/task.html
01:01 < ayecee> i suspect that they may be stored both per-connection and all together, depending on which list they're in.
01:01 < ayecee> can i get a tl;dr please
01:01 < applecrumble> yeah sorry was typing it
01:01 < ayecee> ok
01:02 < applecrumble> Shortly, attacks display weird network behavior, which statistical models can pick up on
01:02 < applecrumble> Specifically, weird network behavior
01:02 < flashpoint> what are you talking about
01:02 < flashpoint> weird how
01:03 < ayecee> it would be uncommon to look at the network behavior at the level of skbuffs though
01:03 < flashpoint> are you just talking to sound like you know what you're talking about
01:03 < applecrumble> The link I sent is a commonly used dataset for intrusion detection, and is based on network information
01:03 < ayecee> flashpoint: shush.
01:03 < applecrumble> ayecee: Right, I agree, i'm looking to see if I can implement some of the solutions as kernel modules
01:03 < flashpoint> what if they're simply capturing packets of wireless
01:04 < ayecee> i see
01:04 < flashpoint> the amount of time I have a wired connection is 1%
01:04 < flashpoint> less than
01:04 < applecrumble> flashpoint: I hope i'm not :) I'm really trying to be concise, i don't know what I'm talking about tbh
01:04 < ayecee> flashpoint: quit your babbling.
01:05 < flashpoint> which kernel and which distro
01:05 < applecrumble> flashpoint: Weird as in, you can create a statistical model of what is "normal" and classify unlikely traffic as "weird"
01:05 < flashpoint> that's too vague
01:05 < applecrumble> flashpoint: I've been working off 4.16 arch
01:05 < notmike> Way too vague
01:06 < triceratux> "Thanks for replying. I won't to be bothered. Either it works or it doesn't. This goofiboot scheme just doesn't seem right to me and will no longer recommend this distro. I wish everyone all the best but until the installer is fixed, I will not use or recommend Solus to anyone." https://solus-project.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7374&start=10
01:06 < notmike> What's are statistaks
01:06 < ayecee> numbers that hurt my brain
01:06 < ayecee> like ice cream, but less tasty
01:06 < ayecee> but still very evenly blended
01:06 < applecrumble> :|
01:07 < notmike> Probably because learning statistics is like forcing your brain to like do something it knows it's dumb or whatever.
01:07 < notmike> And your being is just like ow, no.
01:08 < ayecee> applecrumble: i wonder where skbuffs are normally enqueued.
01:08 < applecrumble> Anyways, a lot of the features in the dataset i'm working off of have to do with session statistics, like session length, total bytes transferred, ACK failures, etc
01:08 < notmike> But probably it can tell us a little about network traffic and what's 'normal' who knows?
01:09 < ayecee> wild guess is that they'd be enqueued per-device, perhaps in multiple queues based on priority.
01:09 < applecrumble> notmike: If i can implement the features from the dataset I linked, many of them get upwards of 90% accuracy at identifying attacks
01:09 < ayecee> not sure where incoming ones would go though
01:10 < notmike> applecrumble: send me your data
01:11 < ayecee> internet says: packet receive flow: netdrv_rx_interrupt() ->allocate/replace skbuff -> call netif_rx()
01:11 < ayecee> at that point they'd be linked per device as they were enqueued for the network stack.
01:13 < ayecee> hmm, maybe not.
01:14 < notmike> What does one need such a network controller for? Just large amounts of data?
01:14 < mac`> need help config the grub i m using 2.6.32-042stab127.2 i did install vmlinuz-4.9.0-6-amd64
01:14 < ayecee> mostly to send and receive packets on a network
01:14 < ayecee> mostly
01:16 < ayecee> per-layer queues, perhaps? https://wiki.linuxfoundation.org/networking/sk_buff
01:17 < hatp> Anyone know why my Unicode rendering suddenly went to shit? I think it was after some update. My locale is still set to UTF-8. Nothing will render unicode. Not my terminal or firefox
01:18 < hatp> When I say won't render unicode, I mean it doesn't seem to render unicode characters that aren't ascii
01:18 < Li> what is best (linuxian) way to backup large data on cloud service using very slow network?
01:19 < ScottE> applecrumble: For what it's worth, take a look at eBPF - you may not need to build a kernel module, but instead write a BPF program that runs inside the kernel. It's pretty neat stuff.
01:20 < notmike> Li: rsync maybe
01:22 < Li> notmike: I kind of knew that answer already .. I was asking about incremental/differential backups or maybe if there are something else I'm not aware of!
01:23 < Li> anyway can anyone tell me what is the meaning of MODULE in this syntax?
01:23 < Li> rsync -av --log-file=/var/log/rsync.log -e "ssh -l backup-user" backup-user@source-machine::module /nas01/backups
01:24 < ayecee> probably just the directory name to back up
01:24 < notmike> Li: you could run a fossil repository
01:24 < ayecee> it's an odd command. :: normally means connect via rsync without ssh transport, but then there's the -e command that explicitly says to use an ssh transport.
01:25 < ayecee> looks like something strung together from stackoverflow examples :)
01:26 < applecrumble> notmike: http://kdd.ics.uci.edu/databases/kddcup99/task.html
01:26 < applecrumble> That's my data
01:27 < applecrumble> ayecee: Link? Thanks for the help
01:27 < ayecee> already closed them all
01:27 < applecrumble> ayecee: The layers are contained in the skbuff itself, you can extract the layer 2, 3, 4 headers directlyl
01:28 < applecrumble> ayecee: no worries,
01:28 < applecrumble> ScottE: Thanks, i'll check it out!
01:28 < ayecee> right, so they don't have to allocate extra room for headers at each level
01:28 < Li> notmike: thanks for mentioning the fossil repository, I'm reading about it
01:29 < ayecee> still could be linked at one level at a time.
01:29 < applecrumble> Li: using very slow network?
01:35 < neeeeeem> hello?
01:36 < neeeeeem> anyone?
01:37 < zhdncpq> hi, i'm having a problem: netfilter-persistent not restoring iptables rules at boot. I spent some time debugging the init file for netfilter-persistent service, and it seems that `sudo service netfilter-persistent start` command is being intercepted by /lib/lsb/init_functions, and the result is empty output. Any alias for `start`, such as `reload`, works perfectly. Where should I continue digging?
01:40 < Li> applecrumble: yes, the upload is 20mbps
01:40 < texla> Ubuntu 16.04 installed on /dev/sda1>I want to install a 2nd harddrive and install a Linux Open Suse o/s when I install bootloader from the suse o/s do i install it to /dev/sda partition so it will be part of Ubuntu menu
01:41 < ayecee> it seems like that would replace the ubuntu bootloader
01:41 < Li> notmike: fossil is not different from git, I'm wondering why it exists!
01:47 < neeeeeem> is anyone  a l i v e ?
01:47 < texla> ayecee, Any suggestions to resolve this bootloader
01:47 < dunnousernamefn> When you #include "/etc/shadow" on an online compiler
01:48 < dunnousernamefn> what does it means if /etc/passwd is root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/bash
01:49 < dunnousernamefn> fun times
01:49 < dunnousernamefn> wat this crap is running OpenBSD
01:51 < neeeeeem> anyone know any alive irc channels?
01:51 < Psi-Jack> Nope. We only know of undead channels.
01:51  * Aph3x-WL rawr brains
01:52 < dunnousernamefn> you have to install gentoo, it'll fix the problem
01:52 < Psi-Jack> dunnousernamefn: What... Are you on about?
01:52 < dunnousernamefn> I went to the tutorialspoint online C compiler and now I'm just including random files
01:53 < dunnousernamefn> It's fun, you should try it some time
01:53 < Psi-Jack> No thanks.
01:54 < dunnousernamefn> neeeeeem, I'm surprised the channel is this quiet, considering we have 2239 people
01:54 < dunnousernamefn> strange... too strange...
01:55 < zhdncpq> any thought about why iptables-persistent might fail to persist iptables rules at boot time? I have a strong suspicion it might be because /lib/lsb/init-functions is doing something weird when getting 'start' command, but maybe someone has other ideas?
01:57 < zhdncpq> init script for iptables-persistent service is basically a switch, which selects based on command in $1. but first it runs `. /lib/lsb/init-functions`. when I run `service iptables-persistent start` it just quietly exits without any output. when I run `service iptables-persistent reload` (which is actually a synonym and included in the same switch branch), it works as it should. what's going on here?
02:04 < applecrumble> ayecee: That's true, the guides i've read do mention that most of the fields aren't populated at once
02:16 < Reuthello> Any experts on "find -exec" here? I'm trying to group all images within subdirectories of another directory into my current working directory. I am trying to do it like this: `find /path/to/images/ -type f -exec cp {} . +`. When I do this, I get, "find: missing argument to `-exec'". It works if I use \; instead of +, but I don't want to call a separate instance of cp for every file. I can't understand
02:16 < Reuthello> why it works for \; but not for +. Anyone got any ideas?
02:17 < akk> Reuthello: One thing you could try is find [...]  -print0 | xargs -0 cp
02:18 < akk> I think that groups things, but try it with an echo or something first to check.
02:18 < TRS-80> Reuthello: images? photos? back out one level and explain what are you trying to do?
02:18 < TRS-80> I mean the big picture
02:18 < Reuthello> akk: If I understand xargs right, it can only put arguments *before* the pathnames it gets from stdin, so it won't work for cp, where I need to add a destination after that, no?
02:19 < ayecee> Reuthello: possibly a typo inbetween what you typed there and what you typed here
02:19 < Reuthello> TRS-80: I have a library of many thousands of images that are distributed into a bunch of subdirectories and sub-subdirectories, in /path/to/images. I want to move all the images into my current working directory (.) with no subdirectories dividing them up.
02:20 < ayecee> for the xargs example, you'd use cp -t to flip the argument order
02:20 < ayecee> but it shouldn't be necessary
02:20 < Reuthello> ayecee: I copied and pasted what I typed into the terminal. Here it is again, with the "+" used: find /path/to/images/ -type f -exec cp {} . +
02:20 < Reuthello> ayecee: I changed the path to the images because it is long and ugly, but everything else I left alone
02:20 < TheCrowd> Reuthello: find -mindepth 2 -type f -exec mv -v -t . {} +
02:21 < Reuthello> ayecee: Interesting, I might look at that, but I'd really like to get find to do my bidding :)
02:22 < ayecee> this fixes it, change it to -exec cp -t . {} +
02:22 < TRS-80> kurahaupo: Gustave LeBon?
02:23 < ayecee> looks like -exec ... + expects the filenames to go at the end.
02:23 < kurahaupo> TRS-80: as in TheCrowd goes wild…
02:24 < degenerate> Hi, i have 1 disk of a 2 disk Raid1 mirror.  The disk was originally partitioned into 3 partitions.  I wish to mount 1 of these partitions to recover the data from that partition.
02:24 < Reuthello> kurahaupo and ayecee: Yes, thank you, it works to change from "-exec cp {} . +" to "-exec cp -t . {} +"
02:24 < degenerate> i was reading this https://serverfault.com/questions/383362/mount-unknown-filesystem-type-linux-raid-member but i don't really follow.
02:25 < Reuthello> I am confused, why do I have to do it that way? Does the "+" have to immediately follow the "{}
02:25 < Reuthello> "?
02:25 < ayecee> Reuthello: apparently yes
02:25 < degenerate> what exactly is /dev/sdc1 in the approved answer?
02:26 < Reuthello> Thank you guys :)
02:26 < ayecee> degenerate: a disk partition
02:26 < ayecee> degenerate: that is a member of a raid
02:27 < degenerate> ayecee so that would be the target partition of the raid i'm trying to recoved?
02:27 < degenerate> recover*
02:27 < degenerate> so then i guess my question is, what is /dev/md0
02:27 < ayecee> no
02:27 < ayecee> what partitions do you see now?
02:28 < degenerate> https://pastebin.com/yrp5He8i
02:28 < ayecee> /dev/md0 is the raid device assembled from /dev/sdc1 in that example
02:28 < degenerate> i want the data on /dev/sdf3
02:28 < ayecee> mdadm --aseemble --run /dev/md0 /dev/sdf3
02:28 < ayecee> then mount /dev/md0 /mnt
02:28 < TheCrowd> degenerate: /dev/md* are assembled raid groups acting as single logical devices, into which one can put a filesystem
02:28 < degenerate> so what is /dev/md0 just some virtual disk?
02:29 < degenerate> ohhh ok
02:30 < TheCrowd> In theory you could put an LVM pool inside an md logical device, and put the filesystems inside that.
02:31 < degenerate> https://pastebin.com/e54ycuv2 ?
02:31 < innovate41> i am making a bridge for use with qemu. when i make a bridge in interfaces (following the tutorial) it takes down eth0 .  why does adding eth0 to a bridge suddenly stop it working?
02:32 < ayecee> degenerate: the raid was alraedy autodetected and is assembled as /dev/md/localhost.localdomain:2
02:32 < innovate41> thanks for any tips
02:32 < degenerate> i have another raid in this computer?
02:32 < degenerate> maybe i need to use md1 ?
02:32 < ayecee> no
02:32 < degenerate> ohhh
02:33 < degenerate> hmmm
02:33 < degenerate> https://pastebin.com/Si84Pv0n
02:33 < ayecee> the device name is /dev/md/localhost.localdomain:2
02:33 < ayecee> note the :2
02:34 < krynnlord> ~~~/quit
02:35 < Psi-Jack> degenerate: pastebin.com is frowned upon due to many issues they themselves have caused. Pastes being reformatted, malvertising, adblock blocking, being blocked due to many reasons. See /topic for the channel's official pastebin.
02:36 < degenerate> how do i tell what filesystem it was? https://paste.linux.community/view/a009421a
02:36 < ayecee> degenerate: file -s /dev/md/localhost.localdomain:2
02:37 < degenerate> https://paste.linux.community/view/33ed07f3
02:37 < ayecee> does ls show it in /dev/md ?
02:38 < degenerate> no, ls /dev/md/ ..... imsm0 imsm1 Volume1_0 Volume2 Volume2p1 Volume2p2 Volume2p3
02:38 < ayecee> maybe "cat /proc/mdstat" to see what the device names in use are.
02:39 < degenerate> https://paste.linux.community/view/626f4ee8
02:39 < ayecee> huh. i don't see /dev/sdf3 in there.
02:40 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm. That's a pretty painful looking setup.
02:42 < ayecee> i don't understand the mdadm error in that case.
02:42 < degenerate> ehhhh thanks for the help guys
02:42 < degenerate> im giving up
02:42 < degenerate> just gonna do this a different way
02:42 < degenerate> (putting drive back in old server, and just gonna copy over network, lol)
02:43 < Psi-Jack> Well... That actually makes sense. :)
02:43 < degenerate> its like 400 GB of 500kb to 2mb files
02:43 < degenerate> it was slow as balls
02:44 < degenerate> all those network requests
02:44 < degenerate> thought it would be quicker to connect drive, and skip the network stack
02:44 < Psi-Jack> How were you transferring them before?
02:44 < degenerate> rsync
02:44 < degenerate> over ssh
02:45 < Psi-Jack> That's a bottleneck by itself.
02:45 < degenerate> not enough space on old server to tar whole drive first
02:45 < degenerate> or? what are you suggesting
02:45 < Psi-Jack> You could inline tar, compress (multithreadedly), and netcat it over, and on the other side, uncompress, untar to a new location.
02:46 < Psi-Jack> The only concern with this, of course, is security.
02:47 < Psi-Jack> Alternatively to that, run NFS or Samba on that host, and transfer the files that way.
02:47 < degenerate> Hah thats actually a really great idea, also its really funny because the main concept was highlighted by my client because there is a user in the chan with that name. https://i.imgur.com/jNG3Q1Y.png
02:47 < shalok> Something keeps creating /path/to/foo.1234 and then moving it to (i.e. overwriting) /path/to/foo. How can I track down the process command line that does this?
02:48 < Psi-Jack> heh
02:48 < degenerate> for a second i thought you were some kind of IRC god that could bold words
02:48 < degenerate> LMFAO
02:48 < Psi-Jack> I am. :)
02:48 < shalok> I tried `auditctl -w /path/to/` but nothing appears in the log relating to this path.
02:50 < Psi-Jack> degenerate: It's easy to bold words in IRC as a god. :)
02:51 < Psi-Jack> Now, would you like some 🎂?
02:53 < pfred1> a square?
02:53 < Psi-Jack> Heh. You lack proper fonts.
02:53 < pfred1> I like this font
02:54 < Psi-Jack> Or proper Unicode, or unicode fallback fonts.
02:54 < pfred1> urxvt -rv -fn xft: Hack:style=Regular
02:54 < Psi-Jack> urxvt, explains the problem. :p
02:54 < pfred1> I like this terminal too
02:54 < pfred1> I like it all!
02:55 < pfred1> I especially like my new sound system that I just setup
02:55 < Psi-Jack> But.... It's broken. :)
02:55 < pfred1> nah it is working perfectly best $10 I ever spent
02:55 < Psi-Jack> No, the terminal. ;)
02:55 < hoshineko> anyone know how to recover my gpg secret key if i all have is the .gnupg/private-keys-v1.d/*.key?
02:55 < Psi-Jack> hoshineko: What's broken about it?
02:56 < hoshineko> nothing is broken, what do you mean?
02:56 < Psi-Jack> You asked how to recover your secret keys. What's actually broken?
02:57 < oerheks> 'nothing is broken'..
02:57 < oerheks> no, how to recover my gpg secret key is not possible
02:57 < hoshineko> all i have is a file that was in .gnupg/private-keys-v1.d/
02:57 < oerheks> * unless you have a backup
02:58 < hoshineko> but it doesn't seem like i file i can --import
02:58 < Psi-Jack> http://irtfweb.ifa.hawaii.edu/~lockhart/gpg/
02:58 < Psi-Jack> --import is incorrect. See URL
02:59 < Psi-Jack> --allow-secret-key-import
03:00 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm.
03:00 < hoshineko> that doesn't seem to do anything
03:00 < Psi-Jack> Lovely GnuPG, changing things up many many MANY times over...
03:00 < oerheks> restart the gpg-agent (gpgconf --kill gpg-agent) after that ?
03:00 < Psi-Jack> hoshineko: Nothing?
03:00 < Psi-Jack> Like, you do that, and you get a prompt back and no output, nothing?
03:01 < hoshineko> "no valid OpenPGP data found
03:01 < hoshineko> nothing as in nothing different from not using that option
03:01 < Psi-Jack> Are you using gpg, or gpg2?
03:01 < hoshineko> gpg
03:01 < Psi-Jack> Well, you never said WHAT you were actually doing... Or getting.
03:02 < Psi-Jack> gpg --version, is it version 1 or 2?
03:02 < hoshineko> gpg (GnuPG) 2.2.8
03:02 < Psi-Jack> OKay good.
03:02 < Psi-Jack> Some distros actually still have Both gpg v1 and v2, which is annoying as all heck.
03:03 < blackgatonegro> Is this about encripted e-mail or something?
03:03 < hoshineko> also this is not a file i got by using --export, this is a file that simply used to be in .gnupg/private-keys-v1.d/
03:03 < Psi-Jack> blackgatonegro: It's about gpg...
03:03 < Psi-Jack> hoshineko: I get that.. :p
03:03 < hoshineko> okay, just wanted to make sure
03:03 < Psi-Jack> hoshineko: Did you try asking #gnupg?
03:03 < hoshineko> will try
03:04 < blackgatonegro> Eh, turns out encripted e-mail wasn't so safe after all.
03:04 < Psi-Jack> encrypted, is with a y, not an i.
03:04 < blackgatonegro> Then again, what is is?
03:05 < Psi-Jack> But yeah, some plugins for that were found to be flawed, for sure.
03:05 < blackgatonegro> Maybe I should get some trained pidgeons...
03:05 < Psi-Jack> Pidgeons can be compromised.
03:06 < blackgatonegro> Psi-Jack, yes but so ca e-mail
03:08 < Psi-Jack> Ugh... I frackin hate mysql replication.
03:09 < Sitri> Try tungsten replicator?  (Haven't myself)
03:09 < Psi-Jack> I'm using Percona MySQL with GTID replication, and it still has wierd issues with just... Failing.
03:09 < blackgatonegro> I hate window boxes, anything pre win 10 won't force update so it has unpatched bugs
03:09 < Sitri> And at least it has replication, unlike the various hacks you have to deal with for pgsql
03:10 < Psi-Jack> PostgreSQL has ACID compliant replication, actually.
03:10 < Psi-Jack> Natively no less..
03:10 < Sitri> That must be recent
03:10 < Psi-Jack> No.
03:12 < Psi-Jack> https://www.postgresql.org/about/featurematrix/
03:12 < fryguy> 8 years or so
03:13 < Sitri> Ah, I was looking at this around 2008-2009
03:14 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, PostgreSQL 9.0 first implemented native replication.
03:14 < Psi-Jack> Simple streaming replication with hot standby (read only mode)
03:15 < Psi-Jack> That was improved upon throughout the 9.x series, and finished in 10, now 11's in beta.
03:17 < Psi-Jack> Man, PostgreSQL always impresses me. I just wish more people would properly support it. LOL
03:19 < g-> what's to support?  it just works :)
03:20 < Psi-Jack> The proper use if PostgreSQL and ANSI SQL, instead of broken non-ANSI MySQL SQL.
03:37 < dannylee> <<
03:37 < mattfly> >>
03:39 < HaMsTeRs> hi
03:39 < blackgatonegro> Hello
03:40 < jim> yeah, postgresql devs try to add features from dbs like oracle, and they succeed... two features they added in (maybe) the last 5 years, is outer joins and common table expressions (which allow recursive queries)
03:43 < bparker> >pre win 10 won't force update
03:43 < bparker> that's a good thing
03:43 < ayecee> it's a thing with both good and bad qualities
03:43 < bparker> I got sick of random restarts and endless nag screens during the day
03:44 < bparker> so I went back to 7
03:44 < ayecee> i get sick of windows 7 computers that were years behind on updates
03:44 < blackgatonegro> bparker, yes and no.  A lot of people wont' ever update so they leave the OS vulnerable to know bugs.
03:45 < bparker> yes that's a problem
03:45 < bparker> I'm glad xp still gets updates through posready
03:45 < ayecee> how did we start talking about this
03:46 < blackgatonegro> xp still gets updates? Since when?
03:46 < Psi-Jack> Ask in ##windows.
03:47 < blackgatonegro> That whole update for that scamware was a one off thing. Microsoft no longer offers XP updates. Even corporate have to update to seven minumun.
03:47 < bparker> blackgatonegro: since 2001, obviously
03:48 < bparker> and it's not a scam
03:48 < bparker> google posready2009
03:48 < bparker> it's still supported until 2019
03:48 < Psi-Jack> And still off-topic /here/.
03:48 < HaMsTeRs> Does anyone know any word processing better than WPS, Libre, and OpenOffice?  I tried all of them, all of them couldn't format my documents right.
03:48 < Psi-Jack> HaMsTeRs: SoftMaker Office
03:48 < bparker> wine + Office
03:48 < Psi-Jack> HaMsTeRs: You can try it out for free with FreeOffice.
03:48 < blackgatonegro> No dude I mean the whole scamware thing that made even xp get updates to stop it.
03:48 < Psi-Jack> blackgatonegro: Take it to the proper channel please.
03:49 < blackgatonegro> That was like in 2017, I think?
03:49 < blackgatonegro> ok
03:51 < HaMsTeRs> Hey guys, I remember one day I've installed something on my old linux box which could make every window transparent.  But I forgot what it's called
03:51 < Psi-Jack> Old? compiz?
03:52 < Hooloovo0> I think some of the more modern WMs do transparent windows, right?
03:52 < Psi-Jack> I thought that old fad was pretty much done and over with by now...
03:53 < blackgatonegro> most modern windowes gui can do transparent windows and so on.
03:53 < mattfly> anyone, wants to be my friend?
03:53 < blackgatonegro> I mean most modern linux guis
03:54 < dannylee> windows is history...linux is coming alive pass 2020 and up??
03:54 < mattfly> :-(
03:54 < HaMsTeRs> blackgatonegro, I tried Wine+Office 2013/2016, unfortunately I couldn't even get it installed.  Event CrossOver 17 trial unable to installed.
03:54 < dannylee> 8-)
03:54 < jim> mattfly, come on, we're all friendly here
03:55 < mattfly> lol
03:55 < mattfly> x'D
03:55 < HaMsTeRs> blackgatonegro, but I remember one thing which could make all my window transparent control only by on app
03:55 < dannylee> windows will have a end too it life...in the next ten years
03:55 < xamithan> No,  you can be an acquaintance
03:55 < Psi-Jack> HaMsTeRs: Yeah. SoftMaker Office is what I generally highly recommend. It's not free, but you definitely get what you pay for with it, and it's not expensive either.
03:56 < blackgatonegro> HaMsTeRs, What I meant to say is that any modern linux gui offers transparencies or whatever is called.
03:56 < mattfly> who votes for microsoft will be pushing a new windows for pc users that is actually linux based in the next 10 years ???
03:56 < xamithan> You mean azure ?  They already have that
03:56  * lnnb16_t votes for nuclear winter
03:56 < dannylee> texmaker is really great for all type of editing..
03:57 < mattfly> no i mean for pc users, normal peoplel
03:57 < stevendale> Hey
03:57 < stevendale>  /dev/sda1        55G   48G  4.3G  92% /
03:57 < lnnb16_t> !spam
03:57 < stevendale> I should free some space >_>
03:57 < xamithan> No one cares about the normal people,  even microsoft
03:57 < n-iCe> hi
03:57 < ayecee> i sure don't
03:57 < stevendale> How do I free space in Linux
03:57 < stevendale> apt clean
03:57 < stevendale> What else?
03:58 < ayecee> stevendale: delete files
03:58 < supera_vaticano> steve!
03:58 < supera_vaticano> you're here!
03:58 < stevendale> Hi :o
03:58 < supera_vaticano> one love dude
03:58 < stevendale> Is bleachbit safe ayecee
03:59 < ayecee> the distribution doesn't take that much space, so it's probably either your personal files or log files that haven't been rotated.
03:59 < HaMsTeRs> Psi-Jack, thanks Jack.   Checking out Softmaker
03:59 < ayecee> i don't know what a bleachbit is.
04:00 < triceratux> https://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/hillary-clinton-emails-bleachbit-227425
04:00 < ayecee> can i get a tl;dr
04:00 < triceratux> server wiping stuff
04:01 < pfred1> tl;dr
04:01 < ayecee> ok
04:01 < ayecee> probably safe if you want to wipe a server. wouldn't recommend it otherwise.
04:01 < pfred1> know what a ball peen hammer is?
04:01 < ayecee> pfred1: is that a euphemism for some sort of kinky sex?
04:01 < pfred1> Hillary's staff does!
04:02 < pfred1> it was a screwing that's for sure
04:02 < localhorse> fdisk -l hangs. doesnt react to Ctrl-C. what can i do?
04:02 < ayecee> replace disk
04:02 < ayecee> but more likely turn it off and turn it on again.
04:02 < pfred1> give it a disk name the next time?
04:02 < localhorse> ayecee: which disk?
04:03 < ayecee> the disk that's not responding
04:03 < localhorse> ayecee: how can i know which disk it is?
04:03 < ayecee> one way would be to replace disks until it stops doing that
04:03 < jim> maybe it has a bad partition table or sector where the partition table was stored
04:03 < pfred1> man this whole project was worth all the effort
04:03 < localhorse> ayecee: why would the disk be the problem?
04:03 < pfred1> and it was a lot of effort
04:03 < ayecee> why would it not be the problem?
04:03 < localhorse> ayecee: why would it?
04:04 < localhorse> it worked fine before
04:04 < Ridout> dmesg or journalctl ought to be complaining.
04:04 < ayecee> why would it not?
04:04 < ayecee> things stop working
04:04 < localhorse> ayecee: no
04:04 < ayecee> fine
04:04 < pfred1> things work until they don't
04:04 < xamithan> Does it freeze on a liveusb
04:04 < localhorse> ayecee: how can i terminate fdisk?
04:04 < ayecee> have you tried turning it off and on again
04:04 < xamithan> That is the real hardware test
04:04 < ayecee> you can't terminate fdisk.
04:04 < localhorse> ayecee: there is no switch on it. i unplugged it. fdisk still hangs
04:04 < localhorse> so what now?
04:04 < ayecee> unplugged what?
04:04 < localhorse> the disk
04:05 < pfred1> you're a mad lad
04:05 < ayecee> have you tried turning off the computer
04:05 < ayecee> and on again
04:05 < localhorse> ayecee: no. how can i terminate fdisk
04:05 < ayecee> you can't.
04:05 < localhorse> why not?
04:05 < xamithan> open another terminal and kill it
04:05 < ayecee> because it's stuck waiting for a disk to respond that's gone.
04:05 < localhorse> i cant afford to reboot right now
04:05 < localhorse> xamithan: i tried
04:05 < ayecee> that's tough.
04:05 < localhorse> didnt work
04:05 < xamithan> Then you going to reboot
04:05 < ayecee> maybe don't disconnect live disks.
04:05 < localhorse> ayecee: but why cant fdisk be killed?
04:06 < ayecee> because it's stuck waiting for a disk to respond that's gone.
04:06 < localhorse> so what
04:06 < localhorse> that doesnt answer the q
04:06 < ayecee> so disk io called are uninterruptible.
04:06 < ayecee> calls*
04:06 < localhorse> why does that prevent it from being killable?
04:06 < localhorse> ok
04:07 < localhorse> ayecee: this is the same disk that i couldnt unmount yesterday on another computer
04:07 < localhorse> does this mean, that it got corrupted?
04:07 < ayecee> so this disk has stopped responding twice, eh
04:07 < xamithan> could be,  run a test on it
04:07 < localhorse> ayecee: no
04:07 < ayecee> i'd say the problem started before either of these two events.
04:07 < localhorse> ayecee: i can mount it and see the file setc
04:07 < localhorse> files
04:07 < localhorse> ayecee: no
04:08 < xamithan> did you fsck
04:08 < localhorse> xamithan: smartctl?
04:08 < ayecee> you keep saying that
04:08 < localhorse> xamithan: no
04:08 < ayecee> did you smartctl?
04:08 < localhorse> xamithan: does fsck work with ntfs?
04:08 < ayecee> not very well
04:08 < localhorse> then which tool should i use?
04:08 < ayecee> windows
04:08 < xamithan> chkdsk
04:09 < localhorse> xamithan: i mean on linux
04:09 < ayecee> but also smartctl
04:09 < xamithan> ntfs isn't a nix filesystem though
04:09 < localhorse> ayecee: but wont that also hang then?
04:09 < ayecee> won't know until you try
04:09 < localhorse> xamithan: the fs is not tied to a OS
04:09 < ayecee> localhorse: that may be, but the ntfs tools available for linux check the bare minimum.
04:09 < xamithan> True,  but it was made by microsoft
04:10 < xamithan> and has very little linux support
04:10 < localhorse> smartctl -i /dev/sdb -> /dev/sdb: Unknown USB bridge [0x0bda:0x0109 (0x959)]
04:10 < ayecee> great.
04:10 < localhorse> what does it mean?
04:10 < localhorse> ?
04:10 < ayecee> it means smartctl doesn't know how to talk to the disk behind the usb bridge.
04:10 < localhorse> what usb bridge?
04:10 < ayecee> if there is a way at all with this bridge.
04:11 < ayecee> the one that connects the disk to your usb.
04:11 < localhorse> but it worked before
04:11 < ayecee> stop saying that
04:11 < ayecee> that is not meaningful
04:11 < localhorse> could it be caused by a kernel update?
04:11 < ayecee> no
04:12 < ayecee> i mean, it's not impossible, but it's way way waaay down on the list, somewhere around aliens and cosmic rays.
04:13 < E|nMann> why dont you boot your windows and run scan disk there?
04:14 < ayecee> localhorse: far more likely is that the disk is damaged.
04:14 < lnnb16_t> might as well go in for a defrag too, clear your calender
04:14 < localhorse> ayecee: nooooo
04:14 < pfred1> why don't you use smartctl?
04:14 < xamithan> It could be the usb enclosure
04:14 < ayecee> pfred1: because it can't speak to the usb bridge.
04:14 < localhorse> pfred1: i did. it doesnt work
04:14 < localhorse> E|nMann: my windows is fucked
04:14 < localhorse> i tried to repair it
04:15 < localhorse> https://forum.cgsecurity.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7977&p=25732#p25732
04:15 < Dave_Elec> I have an inacessible remote linux computer and an online linux server... can  somehow setup the them to ssh to it with my pc?
04:15 < pfred1> localhorse you're just not good at this technology stuff are you?
04:15 < ayecee> hah. you have like the opposite of the midas touch.
04:15 < localhorse> this external disk contains my only backup
04:15 < xamithan> define inacessible
04:15 < localhorse> pfred1: usually i am
04:15 < ayecee> if you ship it to me and a $100, i'll give it a whack
04:15 < xamithan> If it is truly offline,  no you can't ssh
04:15 < lnnb16_t> who backs up on to ntfs
04:15 < localhorse> pfred1: but why do 2 disks fail on me at the same time?
04:16 < pfred1> bad luck?
04:16 < ayecee> because you touch yourself at night
04:16 < localhorse> lnnb16_t: i have to use windows
04:16 < localhorse> ayecee: no
04:16 < lnnb16_t> localhorse: you are being held captive?
04:16 < localhorse> lnnb16_t: yes
04:16 < lnnb16_t> we can get you help
04:16 < localhorse> by my job
04:16 < pfred1> this PC has like the best sound I've ever heard
04:16 < Dave_Elec> xamithan: it has internet but it is not port forwarded
04:17 < Ridout> Try a device type as an argument to smartctl such as   -d sat
04:17 < ayecee> localhorse: maybe it'll work after you turn it off and on again. if it does, you should copy everything off of it that you can.
04:17 < ThePortWhisperer> hello
04:17 < localhorse> Ridout: why sat?
04:17 < ayecee> Ridout: doesn't help. smartctl doesn't know that bridge.
04:17 < localhorse> ayecee: like i said i unplugged it
04:17 < pfred1> I had no idea SPDIF was so good
04:17 < ayecee> localhorse: good. now turn the computer off, then on again, then plug it in.
04:17 < localhorse> ayecee: i can mount it and see the files. does that mean it's healthy?
04:17 < Ridout> Doesn't know my either until I gave it a device type.
04:17 < xamithan> How do you access it in the first place if it has no ports open?
04:17 < ayecee> localhorse: no, it doesn't.
04:18 < ThePortWhisperer> what's the bare minimum i need to enter into etc/network/interfaces to get a host to pick a static IP
04:18 < Ridout> s/my/mine/
04:18 < ThePortWhisperer> is the address line and subnet mask enough
04:18 < localhorse> ayecee: i hate that i have to reboot so often with linux
04:18 < ayecee> ThePortWhisperer: documented in "man interfaces"
04:18 < localhorse> with windows i can run it for months
04:18 < pfred1> I'm going to have to shut my PC down for my next project
04:18 < ayecee> localhorse: that's a really sad story, and you should sing it with some music.
04:18 < pfred1>  22:18:47 up 42 days, 21:18,  5 users,  load average: 0.16, 0.11, 0.04
04:19 < localhorse> with linux like every week
04:19 < lnnb16_t> ThePortWhisperer: i don't have that file
04:19 < lnnb16_t> is that some networkd thing?
04:19 < Dave_Elec> xamithan: I have someone who has physical acess to it
04:19 < ayecee> localhorse: throw in a verse about disks dying.
04:19 < ThePortWhisperer> ayecee, documented where in that man entry
04:19 < ayecee> ThePortWhisperer: second page
04:20 < localhorse> ayecee: what are the chances that my disk is perfectly fine and fdisk hangs because of kernel updates or other updates?
04:20 < xamithan> Well,  if you want to use your other linux that does have an open port you can ssh tunnel
04:20 < localhorse> or some other reason
04:20 < ayecee> localhorse: somewhere between aliens and cosmic rays, i already said
04:20 < ThePortWhisperer> ayecee, doesnt seem to answer the question on minimum required inputs
04:20 < ThePortWhisperer> it only has some example lines
04:20 < localhorse> ayecee: what does that mean
04:20 < E|nMann> localhorse: i dont know a solution in that way. but maybe you can find out if a hardware failure is the problem. do you know the ultimate boot cd iso?
04:21 < ayecee> ThePortWhisperer: ah. you're right, there's probably not a section that says "the bare minimum is this"
04:21 < ayecee> localhorse: it means very very very very small chance.
04:21 < ThePortWhisperer> right..
04:21 < ThePortWhisperer> if anyone actually knows would be helpful :)
04:21 < lnnb16_t> what did you try so far
04:21 < xamithan> reverse ssh tunnel,  that is
04:21 < ayecee> ThePortWhisperer: try this. take the example, and remove parts until it doesn't work.
04:21 < localhorse> ayecee: could it be caused by not unmounting when shutting down yesterday?
04:21 < lnnb16_t> i don't have that manpage either
04:21 < ThePortWhisperer> lnnb16_t, i didnt try anything
04:21 < ayecee> localhorse: this? no.
04:22 < lnnb16_t> well try soemthing and let me know what it was
04:22 < localhorse> ayecee: what could cause this?
04:22 < ayecee> localhorse: a damaged disk, i already said
04:22 < xamithan> ThePortWhisperer: That is pretty distro specific by what the interface file needs
04:22 < localhorse> ayecee: but what caused it?
04:22 < ThePortWhisperer> im trying not to bruteforce til i try to find a working config, that's dumb
04:22 < ayecee> entropy
04:22 < xamithan> Usually just the ip, netmask, and gateway
04:22 < ayecee> localhorse: things die.
04:22 < ThePortWhisperer> xamithan, okay. this is ubuntu
04:22 < lnnb16_t> read the manual for ideas ThePortWhisperer
04:22 < ThePortWhisperer> xamithan, thanks
04:22 < localhorse> :(
04:22 < ayecee> localhorse: it can be no one's fault, and they still die.
04:23 < ThePortWhisperer> lnnb16_t,  sure, maybe one day
04:23 < lnnb16_t> yeah good luck with that
04:23 < localhorse> :(
04:23 < ayecee> localhorse: that's why you should copy all the data you can from it while you can.
04:23 < ayecee> cherish your data.
04:23 < localhorse> ayecee: i AM, but my other disk just failed on me!!
04:23 < localhorse> this is my only backup
04:24 < ayecee> better get another backup then.
04:24 < localhorse> it died
04:24 < ayecee> better get ANOTHER another backup then
04:24 < localhorse> first i need to reinstall windows
04:24 < E|nMann> i would put drive by drive in another computer
04:24 < localhorse> and for that i need fdisk to work
04:25 < ayecee> you should probably get a different drive first.
04:25 < ayecee> then install windows on that.
04:25 < ayecee> you probably shouldn't use this drive at all until you're ready to copy data from it to another drive.
04:25 < localhorse> i did
04:25 < localhorse> i dont have another drive
04:26 < ayecee> then buy one.
04:26 < localhorse> no money left
04:26 < ayecee> tough titties then.
04:26 < localhorse> :(
04:26 < ayecee> maybe you can do favors for someone
04:27 < xamithan> You have a job,  so you should get paid eventually
04:27 < Psi-Jack> Huh, wow.. PostgreSQL 10 now has an "ALTER SYSTEM" to set, within the database server, things you could set via the .conf file(s).
04:27 < ayecee> or, someone can favor you with a spare drive
04:27 < Psi-Jack> Same apparently for the old pg_hba.conf.
04:28 < Psi-Jack> And even better, a new password authentication method, scram-sha-256. :D
04:28 < amosbird> hi, is there a way to find out the network bandwidth info per process under the /proc system ?
04:28 < xamithan> nethogs ?
04:28 < Sveta> nethogs++
04:29 < ThePortWhisperer> xamithan, some guide online says to put a `iface eth0 inet dhcp` line in interfaces, then instructs putting `ifaceeth0 inet static \n [configs]` just after that
04:30 < ThePortWhisperer> is that a mistake
04:30 < xamithan> I wouldn't use that guide then
04:30 < E|nMann> my english gets worse, right?
04:30 < ayecee> can't tell, you haven't said much recently
04:31 < ThePortWhisperer> xamithan, i wonder which the OS would give precedence to
04:31 < ThePortWhisperer> :P
04:31 < ayecee> seems easy enough to test. i bet it's the last line.
04:31 < xamithan> No idea,  wouldn't the last lines just override ?
04:32 < ThePortWhisperer> probably is easy to test. ive no interest in conducting such a test, though
04:32 < ayecee> me too
04:34 < lnnb16_t> step1: disable whatever the heck uses /etc/network/interfaces, step2: use ip instead
04:35 < xamithan> How do you make the ip permanent though?  ;P
04:35 < lnnb16_t> by calling ip from a script with static values
04:36 < xamithan> Seems a strange way to do ip addressing since the networking.service uses the interfaces file
04:36 < lnnb16_t> kill the service then
04:36 < lnnb16_t> and delete the file
04:36 < lnnb16_t> forever.
04:36 < xamithan> Then you got no networking at all
04:37 < lnnb16_t> that's what ip is for
04:38 < ayecee> that's nasty
04:38 < lnnb16_t> everyone's a critic
04:38 < ThePortWhisperer> yeah. they think they know best
04:39 < ayecee> which is really frustrating to those of us who do know best
04:39 < xamithan> Whatever floats your boat.  I've been using netplan myself
04:39 < ThePortWhisperer> i recall some thing about how if you ask 100 people in a room how smart they are they will mostly all guess they're in the top 20%ile
04:40 < ayecee> most drivers think they're above average drivers
04:40 < Sveta> E|nMann: query ##English also, they have excellent tips and advice
04:41 < Sveta> ayecee: my driving instructor cursed at other drivers thoroughly however it did not exclude the requirement to be responsible himself/myself (whoever was driving)
04:41 < Sveta> ayecee: the low opinion of others served the purpose of being ready to them doing stupid things like turning without indicating or running a red light etc
04:41 < ThePortWhisperer> yeah
04:41 < ThePortWhisperer> i longboard in city traffic, im probably 2x as paranoid
04:41 < Sveta> ayecee: so it had an utility
04:42 < ThePortWhisperer> paranoia: good way to stay alive
04:42 < ayecee> heh. good approach to road safety is to stay away from other drivers as much as possible.
04:42 < Sveta> ThePortWhisperer: in higher traffic it moves slowly. makes the trip longer and more infested with others >.< by all means if i start commuting, i'll try my best to avoid the peak hour
04:42 < Sveta> which is in line with what ayecee said i think
04:43 < ThePortWhisperer> i try to make it so if a car hits me they also have to hit something else undesirable
04:43 < ayecee> something other than you
04:43 < pfred1> when I drove in the City I always had a bashed in driver's side front fender
04:43 < ayecee> heh
04:43 < pfred1> I'd yell at traffic if i hit ya I won't evne notice
04:44 < ThePortWhisperer> lol
04:44 < pfred1> you'd be surprised how many folks yield then
04:44 < Sveta> what is a "bashed in driver's side front fender" ?
04:44 < ayecee> a front fender, on the driver's side, that is damaged
04:44 < ThePortWhisperer> messed up front end
04:45 < ayecee> or "bashed in"
04:45 < pfred1> it's a real time saver
04:45 < Sveta> ooh
04:45 < ThePortWhisperer> frick
04:45 < ThePortWhisperer> i cant get this VM to get an IP
04:45 < ThePortWhisperer> wanted to try hacking it
04:48 < lnnb16_t> ip addr add <ip address> dev eth0 && ip link set dev eth0 up && ip route add default via <gateway address>
04:49 < lnnb16_t> s/eth0/ur-iface/
04:49 < lnnb16_t> pkg-remove.sh dhcp
04:50 < ThePortWhisperer> i dont have access to commandline, its a challenge box for hacking
04:51 < ThePortWhisperer> since mounting disk and editing confs doesnt work next thing is to change the freaking root pass and mess around @ commandline
04:51 < ThePortWhisperer> super annoying
04:52 < ThePortWhisperer> via grub loader or whatever
05:00 < pfred1> adding a better sound system is not a good way to control a PC addiction
05:00 < E|nMann> thats why i downgraded
05:02 < ThePortWhisperer> well
05:02 < ThePortWhisperer> looks like eth0 isnt starting even though its set to auto in /etc/network/interfaces
05:02 < ThePortWhisperer> cmon bro.
05:05 < cmj> eh?
05:08 < catsup> how do i delegate an ipv6 address in the linux kernel _without_ using radvd?  (I basically just want to do whatever radvd does, but manually)
05:08 < ThePortWhisperer> no eth0 in ifconfig, ifup eth0 says no mac found which would correspond to eth0 (or something like this)(
05:09 < ThePortWhisperer> "error getting hardware address for eth0"
05:10 < ThePortWhisperer> arg. saw the error on boot.."failed to raise network interfaces"
05:11 < cmj> catsup: varients of: ip -6 r add <6addr> dev wlp2s0 , route add -A inet6 default gw <6addr>
05:12 < Sitri> ThePortWhisperer: `ifconfig -a` to list all the actual interfaces.  udev likes to rename them all to something random.
05:12 < Sitri> You can also see the name change in dmesg.  If you want to fix it, the offending rule is /lib/udev/rules.d/80-network*
05:12 < bsdnoob> I found systemd-journal writing millions of lines of same error message(some sort of Request error). How can I stop it? Log files are like 4gb
05:14 < ThePortWhisperer> holy crap
05:14 < ThePortWhisperer> Sitri, you called it. nice
05:15 < ThePortWhisperer> "enp0s17"
05:15 < ThePortWhisperer> what an abomination
05:15 < Sitri> No kidding
05:15 < Sitri> That's why I fix it :p
05:15 < triceratux> thats not random. thatz "predictable"
05:15 < Sitri> Let something actually decent handle naming it (namei specifically)
05:16 < Sitri> triceratux: I log into system A, it's called en0.  I log into system B, it's called enp0s17.  I log into system C, it's called enp0s1.  That's random.
05:18 < amosbird> hmm, how can I get the inode number from /proc/  ?
05:19 < Sitri> You don't, what are you trying to do?
05:19 < amosbird> I'm trying to understand how nethog works
05:19 < amosbird> it says getting inode number from /proc/fd
05:20 < amosbird> and then maintaining a socketfd -> pid map
05:20 < lnnb16_t> stat will show Inode: ######
05:20 < amosbird> lnnb16_t: oh
05:20 < lnnb16_t> ####### == some number
05:20 < amosbird> I wonder if it is applicable to integrate nethogs into htop
05:21 < amosbird> so that I can have the per process network bandwidth info just like other cpu / mem infos
05:39 < cmj> htop, jnettop
05:40 < cmj> and iotop -a is all i use for that matterl
05:51 < ShockValue> hi all.. i rebooted a centos server that's been up for quite a while.. throws a "cant find EFI/etc/etc/" error won't boot.  However issuing this command makes it work OK from the grub menu "configfile (hd1,gpt1)/EFI/centos/grub.cfg"
05:52 < ShockValue> can you assist me in making this change permenent so I don't have to do that every time I reboot
05:52 < ShockValue> ?
05:57 < BlueBlooD> hello
05:58 < BlueBlooD> i need help
05:58 < orekix> o/
05:58 < BlueBlooD> i want to allow only 1 background process in shell
05:58 < BlueBlooD> how to do that
06:01 < The_Schmidt> what's that process supposed to do?
06:02 < BlueBlooD> 1 eggdrop or 2 znc connection or  2 psybnc connection
06:02 < BlueBlooD> thanks for replying The_Schmidt
06:03 < ThePortWhisperer> xamithan ftw
06:03 < ThePortWhisperer> legend of nix networking
06:04 < BlueBlooD> The_Schmidt ?
06:04 < BlueBlooD> can i do that
06:05 < srk> BlueBlooD: you can check `jobs` output and kill processes according to that
06:06 < The_Schmidt> BlueBlooD: I feel like this might be helpful, but not 100percent sure   https://serverfault.com/questions/41959/how-to-send-jobs-to-background-without-stopping-them
06:07 < BlueBlooD> let me chk
06:08 < The_Schmidt> I suggest reading all the replies on that one since there are more than one way.  it mentions using Ctrl+Z, bg, fg   as well as using something like screen or tmux to run as a separate session altogether
06:08 < The_Schmidt> and also nohup ... which I forget what it does, but it's probably what you want
06:09 < srk> nohup detaches the process from current terminal so you can e.g. disconnect from ssh session and the process will still run
06:09 < srk> provided there's no logind to kill the remaining processes
06:47 < Blondie101010> I have a bit weird question as I'm analyzing vertical scaling limits in a system and was wondering if there was a considerable overhead to use MANY cgroups
06:48 < warison> Justin Call lives on Galaxy drive and was an MKUltra programmer child psychologist (california)
06:48 < warison> is that helpful?
06:49 < RayTracer> Blondie101010: and for the analysis, you'd be relying on what an average IRC punk tells you?
06:50 < warison> fuck you. I tried to help the FBI and then became a target
06:50 < warison> you have broken so many laws regarding my own body
06:50 < warison> in vino veritas
06:50 < ayecee> ease up on the vino, buddy
06:50 < warison> i contacted two field offices in California
06:51 < warison> ease up on the gaslighting, FBI
06:51 < Blondie101010> RayTracer:  no, I just wanted some opinions to start with
06:51 < warison> i think what i want to do is as much damage as possible
06:51 < ayecee> seems like something stronger than vino is in use.
06:51 < warison> because that's what the intelligence community deserves
06:51 < warison> yea. extra strong truth
06:52 < warison> what is wrong with you people (intelligence community)
06:52 < warison> ?
06:52 < warison> why do you gaslight me on a daily basis?
06:52 < ayecee> !ops warison paranoid raving
06:52 < warison> 802-242-4707 ssn: 550896969
06:52 < warison> not paranoid, just asking questions
06:53 < Blondie101010> warison: none are linux related apparently
06:53 < warison> this channel has the most users; that is why i selected it
06:53 < lnnb16_t> warison: i think someone in #windows knows something about what is troubling you
06:54 < warison> why do you say that lnnb16_t
06:54 < Blondie101010> lol
06:54 < lnnb16_t> they told me
06:54 < lnnb16_t> to tell u
06:54 < Blondie101010> some voices in my head agreed to that
06:54 < pfred1> in Tux we trust
06:54 < warison> MKUltra voices or just regular voices
06:54 < Stryyker> lnnb16_t: please don't do that
06:55 < lnnb16_t> you gonna stryyk me if i continue?
06:55 < warison> because MKUltra voices can do a lot more than standard-issue schizo secondary to childhood abuse
06:55 < warison> i can teach you all
06:55 < warison> about everything
06:55 < Stryyker> no but I'm sure the ops in here won't be pleased to have you send trolls in to other channels
06:55 < Dominian> ooook
06:55 < Dominian> that's enough warison
06:55 < Blondie101010> warison:  go talk to people that care about these things, not in a non-related specialized environment
06:55 < lnnb16_t> lol who cares about some windows op
06:55 < warison> but if feigned ignorance, no apology for daily psychological abuse, and etc. then I will not only do nothing, I will do as much damage as possible
06:56 < Dominian> Well, that was easy
06:56 < Stryyker> lnnb16_t: you may find many ops in many channels care about being respectful of others
06:57 < lnnb16_t> my plan could have worked
06:57 < Stryyker> how? you was interacting with him - you gave him air
06:58 < RayTracer> Blondie101010: ok, so here's my opinion.. whenever you have MANY of something, you're probably leaving the comfort zone. Eg. I know on large memory systems, they have memory cgroup is disabled
06:58 < Stryyker> #windows is probably locked so they would have returned
06:58 < pfred1> Stryyker sifle it Edith
06:58 < ayecee> stifle
06:58 < pfred1> that too
06:58 < Blondie101010> RayTracer:  that's what worries me and trying it on a clean system is not simple
06:59 < pfred1> if loving a penguin is wrong then I don't want to be right
07:00  * Penguin blinks
07:06 < storge> pfred1: a never told you how much i enjoyed the joy division discography you dcc'd me like ten years ago. maybe more.
07:07 < storge> pfred1: i listened to some of it today in fact
07:07 < pfred1> storge I listened to Closer today myself
07:07 < storge> hah! i knew it was you
07:07 < pfred1> I just setup a new surround sound system on this PC so I had ot listen to something
07:07 < notmike> Awww
07:08 < pfred1> now I'm listening to the Mahavishnu Orchestra
07:09 < pfred1> these people are musicians
07:10 < storge> i'm listening to iggy pop
07:10 < pfred1> oh yeah what?
07:10 < storge> dum dum boys specifically, one of my favorites
07:10 < pfred1> ah The Idiot
07:11 < pfred1> I was an idiot when I bought that album
07:11  * storge storge gives pfred1 +1
07:11 < pfred1> I paid with a $20 and he gave me change for a $10
07:11 < storge> haha
07:12 < pfred1> I like Passenger on that album
07:12 < storge> yep
07:12 < pfred1> cuz I ride and I ride
07:12 < storge> and on the album before i really like lust for life (most people hear the riff on tv but don't listen to the lyrics) and fall in love with me
07:13 < pfred1> yeah Iggy is pretty mainstream now
07:13 < storge> today for some reason i was really enjoying last child by aerosmith, i played it 3 times in a row on the way home. not a big aerosmith fan (i don't know all their b-sides) but they have some i really like
07:14 < pfred1> with a face like Steven Tyler has you'd better be able to rock
07:14 < pfred1> you're not going to get by on just your looks
07:15 < storge> iggy might be mainstream but not so much with the stooges, i love how that sound is still raw, just the way it was recorded
07:15 < pfred1> ever heard of the Dead Boys?
07:15 < storge> oh yeah
07:16 < pfred1> OK
07:16 < pfred1> they kind of did the Stooges thing
07:16 < pfred1> I wore my copy of Young Loud and Snotty out
07:16 < storge> listening to joy division always makes me want to hear some bauhaus too. peel sessions, swing the heartache
07:17 < storge> not into all of it, but some of it is just so mood altering
07:18 < storge> that's kinda how i judge music, if i do at all. like how philip hoffman's Lester Bangs says in almost famous: your music chooses you, what ends up living in your car or on repeat. i just like what i like, i don't care what genre
07:19 < storge> but before you gave me that joy division, i basically knew love will tear us apart, and their is so much more richness there, and for that i'll always be thankful for you man
07:19 < pfred1> for me it is about the motivations
07:20 < pfred1> I can hear when they're only in it for the money
07:20 < storge> ah the motivations. one of the reasons i'll always love zappa.
07:20 < storge> hah! zappa, we're only in it for the money
07:21 < storge> yep, i avoid that stuff at the cellular level. maybe it's why i tend to prefer the b-sides of hit songs. like when i bought my very first 45: whip it from devo, and girl u want was on the b-side, and to this day i prefer that one
07:22 < pfred1> I like girl I want too
07:22 < pfred1> digital out really is nice
07:23 < pfred1> I need to do the SPDIF hack on a sound card here now
07:24 < Jackass420> This is linux, right?
07:24 < storge> Jackass420: ask a linux question
07:25 < pfred1> Jackass420 yeah there's not many cards that Linux supports that have SPDIF out
07:25 < pfred1> I've looked
07:25 < RayTracer> pfred1: running onboard soundcard's spdif since at least three mainboards
07:25 < Jackass420> You've seem to got the same problem as me.
07:25 < pfred1> RayTracer yes but do you have hardware MIDI?
07:26 < Jackass420> I Although I'm looking for rare distros
07:26 < pfred1> how about rare pepes?
07:26 < Jackass420> I have lot's of those.
07:26 < Jackass420> I left them at home though.
07:26 < jim> I should see if my midisport works
07:26 < lnnb16_t> mbox2 over usb
07:27 < Jackass420> Ever see the guy who made a portable N64?
07:27 < RayTracer> pfred1: no, and I'm not aware of a relation from spdif to midi
07:27 < pfred1> I am having a heck of a time getting sound to work right in Zandronum
07:27 < Jackass420> There's always that.
07:27 < Jackass420> Isn't that how it all works anyway?
07:27 < Jackass420> People make things for people who don't have things.
07:28 < pfred1> Jackass420 I make things for myself
07:28 < Jackass420> Anyways, I'm looking for some rare distros. I'm an archivist.
07:28 < jim> how do you get a midisport going? isn't there firmware, or a driver that you'd install?
07:29 < jim> as usual running debian stretch
07:29 < Jackass420> Right now doudou which was very common a few years ago to get has disappeared.
07:29 < pfred1> Jackass420 the only distro anyone needs is Debian
07:29 < storge> Jackass420: my favorite all time distro is sourcemage, got that one?
07:29 < pfred1> you make it rare by configuring it
07:29 < lnnb16_t> Jackass420: how much you pay  $1,000 ?
07:29 < jim> be right back
07:29 < pfred1> I bet one one has a distro quite like what I'm running
07:30 < pfred1> no one even
07:30 < Jackass420> I'm looking for vanilla everything at them moment.
07:30 < Jackass420> I'll get to packages and all the fancy confetti when the world ends lol
07:30 < lnnb16_t> vanilla,  err like all default configure switches for every package?
07:31 < storge> the freedom to tinker and break is paramount in computing and hardware hacking, just like the right to be wrong is what freedom of speech safeguards
07:31 < lnnb16_t> that's gonna cost $10,000
07:31 < Jackass420> No, more like original releases. Something like doudoulinux-1.0-fr-i386.iso is what I'm looking for but more complete. Like a database... It seems impossible to find.
07:32 < storge> Jackass420: does distrowatch have an archive? they've been doing that forever. maybe you can email old devs
07:32 < Jackass420> Call it an obsession. I want as many distros as I can find. I'm not sure. I haven't exactly mastered email just yet.
07:33 < storge> ... eh?
07:33 < storge> you can write one though right?
07:33 < Jackass420> I don't think millenials were meant to use 90's technology lol
07:33 < Jackass420> Where is mind mail by now, right?
07:33 < Jackass420> I guess I can look there. Meanwhile are there any archives you guys know of?
07:34 < Jackass420> I don't have a lot.
07:34 < Jackass420> I'm just beginning this little mirror operation.
07:34 < jim> just graduated with highest honors from Berkeley... got my masters in cat
07:34 < storge> i'd look for old mailing lists, they tend to have tons of email addresses. someone might have something. i can't produce one off hand
07:34 < Jackass420> Right now I have an unfinished Debian archive at around 400GB so it's slow going.
07:34 < storge> jim: you did?
07:34 < storge> jim: or is that a joke
07:35 < jim> turns out cat is HARD
07:35 < Jackass420> Cats?
07:35 < Jackass420> Like meow?
07:35 < zapotah> Jackass420: no dog?
07:35 < storge> cat ~ concatenate
07:35 < Jackass420> O
07:35 < storge> at least in linux
07:36 < zapotah> err
07:36 < zapotah> jim:
07:36 < storge> cat /proc/version
07:36 < storge> for example
07:36 < jim> if I cat /proc/vision, what will I see?
07:37 < Jackass420> Sounds hard enough to not understand at all.
07:37 < storge> jim: something wonderful
07:37 < jim> okok, just kidding.,...
07:37 < storge> me too
07:37 < Jackass420> Alright...
07:38 < Jackass420> Welp
07:38 < Jackass420> If anybody got some links for meh
07:38 < Jackass420> NOW is the time to paste them
07:38 < storge> jim: but now that i think of it i hope you make a distro that has a vision to cat
07:38 < storge> Jackass420: i can't perform under pressure
07:38 < Jackass420> .....sorry
07:39 < storge> Jackass420: nothing to apologize about. do you have a sourcemage iso in your archive?
07:40 < Jackass420> So far I have an unfinished debain archive, I have All ubuntu, I have Parrotsec and that's about it but I have a bunch of iso's floating around in cyber space on a hard drive somewhere.
07:41 < Jackass420> There's just so many
07:41 < Jackass420> Like...
07:41 < storge> puppy? zenwalk? knoppix? mepis? lunar? slackware?
07:41 < Jackass420> Gathering other operating systems made it looks so easy.
07:41 < storge> mandrake 9.1 was a particularly nice release
07:41 < Jackass420> I'm getting puppy from ibiblio and I'm also downloading archiveOS from the sourceforge mirror. So whatever is in that.
07:42 < storge> i never heard of that
07:42 < Jackass420> It's just so freaking huge, the release of ALL linux distros ever made. ArchiveOS was a platform that archived releases of linux but they are far from a complete database.
07:43 < Jackass420> The archive is massive though.
07:43 < storge> Jackass420: how much storage space do you have
07:43 < Jackass420> Capacity for 2012. A 500GB drive.
07:44 < Jackass420> I don't have much space left for things as it is but I wanna take up as much space as I can.
07:44 < storge> if you're only looking for original releases, that might almost be enough for the early years, but if you're trying to get every version release ever, that's nowhere near enough
07:45 < Jackass420> I mean, I was thinking 5 TB would be enough. How close am I to that?
07:45 < storge> see to me, this conversation is almost as obscure at the music one, but ostensibly about linux
07:45 < storge> i can't even imagine
07:45 < Jackass420> Probably 8TB for everything.
07:45 < notmike> I'm not hiding my kid from Linux I'm hiding Linux from my kid.
07:46 < storge> notmike: why? better than gaming, imho
07:46 < Jackass420> I saw the list of every distro (in my mind was) pendrive linux had to choose from and I was like.....THIS.
07:47 < Jackass420> It just feels important to a certain degree to collect them.
07:47 < storge> Jackass420: we all have our kicks. some collects coins, some books, and some victim's faces
07:47 < Jackass420> Don't even get me started about coins and baseball cards lol
07:48 < jim> notmike, howcome?
07:48 < Jackass420> Between all that, I think I might barf up a damn rainbow.
07:48 < storge> Jackass420: i don't know what that means but it sounds damn saucy
07:49 < Jackass420> Well, I wanna see what I can possibly get my hands on. I heard qimo died and so that's also hard to find. And this is only the beginning of the list.
07:49 < notmike> jim: they don't want it
07:49 < Jackass420> I hope everything isn't this hard to find. I found puppy on irc. I searched google for days and found nothing.
07:50 < Sveta> you may wish to fine tune your search abilities
07:51 < Jackass420> I had a few search tools, torrent sites, ftp indexer, google search terms revamped with filetype and all sorts of other things. Where else can I index iso files and other media?
07:51 < storge> aye, as Sveta implies, it shouldn't be hard to google all kinds of stuff. you could probably script it, like a custom little spider
07:51 < notmike> jQuery
07:52 < Sveta> notmike: you can make them want it
07:52 < Sveta> notmike: (if you so desire)
07:52 < Jackass420> That might be my in. Although I'm no expert on the stuff.
07:52 < storge> Jackass420: sounds like an opportunity to learn
07:53 < Jackass420> I was never big on learning. It was always hard and boring.
07:53 < storge> so is civilization, but we do it anyway
07:53 < notmike> Sveta: I do what I can, but a bird don't belong in a cage. ^_^
07:54 < Jackass420> I wouldn't know where to begin with a search term spider.
07:54 < Jackass420> wouldn't it be like all the other spiders?
07:55 < Sveta> notmike: if they want it, they will beg for it from you without a cage :P
07:55 < Jackass420> I'd just be better off googling my stuff since I don't know wtf I'm even looking for when I type it.
07:55 < Sveta> Jackass420: break the problem into a few steps
07:55 < Sveta> Jackass420: each of them may be easier to find. and ask on irc for help with formulating and grasping the key concepts
07:56 < Jackass420> I need to find ISO files. But they're rare. So nobody has them....
07:56 < Sveta> iso files of what?
07:56 < storge> Sveta: Jackass420 is collecting linux isos for historical archiving
07:57 < storge> which is a cool goal i think
07:57 < Jackass420> I wouldn't know what terms to introduce. I need to find distros of linux that were basically abandoned for archives.
07:57 < Jackass420> Like doudou
07:57 < Sveta> Jackass420: i'd navigate websites of the distributions by hand and create download URLs patterns for each of them separately
07:57 < storge> Jackass420: you might want to blog all this, you might get others excited, and it becomes a team effort.
07:57 < storge> by 'blog' i mean whatever method to let others know you're archiving
07:57 < Jackass420> I don't have a lot of versions and it's getting to be harder the more I just search.
07:58 < Jackass420> Well facebook is basically a no go these days.
07:58 < storge> Jackass420: yes, this seems a goal ripe for automation
07:58 < Sveta> Jackass420: make a class which downloads all .iso files which aren't downloaded yet -- its subclasses would be for each distribution and would define a download algorithm for that
07:58 < Sveta> Jackass420: take a look at the source code of youtube-dl, while it has a different goal, some of its implementation may be useful to you
07:58 < Jackass420> But wouldn't you need exact filenames?
07:58 < Sveta> Jackass420: no
07:58 < Jackass420> Or md5 hashes
07:59 < storge> Sveta: on that particular note, i don't get helpful error output from the gui but youtube-dl to this day refuses to download a single thing for me
07:59 < Sveta> Jackass420: in some cases you could download an index of a directory online, and check it against the files that you've got locally
07:59 < Sveta> Jackass420: in other cases you'd not have an index of a directory; instead you'd check releases at a website such as github, or an url by pattern ('foo-%N-%M.iso' where N or M is equal to the old value plus one)
07:59 < Jackass420> But I don't have that much space and I'm not even close to ready to host anything.
08:00 < Jackass420> That's a good idea but what if they were appended other filenames?
08:01 < storge> this is why you should enlist others. you might find someone who adores your goal and has vacant space to spare
08:01 < Jackass420> apricity_os-11.2016-birch-cinnamon-x86_64.iso and BT5R3-GNOME-32.iso are way different things, the only thing that could tell the difference is md5
08:02 < Jackass420> Maybe it could spider out checking all online servers that allow access to md5 check specified types and md5 hashes.
08:02 < Jackass420> Like any ISO file would be checked.
08:03 < Jackass420> But that would be a pain in the ass for any servers.
08:03 < Sveta> Jackass420: you can store download links, but then if they die, nobody has a copy
08:03 < Sveta> Jackass420: you may simply have to find some space for this
08:04 < Jackass420> No, I want to mirror but I don't have the capacity at the moment. I do have a few TB to spare for now and downloading is slow. So I have time for the rare stuff if I can find it.
08:04 < Sveta> Jackass420: sometimes you can add it to a torrent users network and after someone else already has a full copy, you remove yours, but we're risking them going offline then
08:04 < Sveta> Jackass420: it sounds like a few TB is a good start; after a bit, you'll have an estimate of the total required capacity
08:05 < Sitri> Have you tried storing them in something that does deduplication?
08:05 < Jackass420> I just want to get the more rare releases before they ar completely gone then work on the more known ones when I have the space.
08:05 < Sitri> I'm certain that'd give you a fair amount of extra space to work with.
08:05 < storge> find some space, start collecting, work on a spider--imperfect though it may be, make a generic page that shows the recently acquired, and archive links, blog it, post in ycombinator news, maybe you get fellow travellers
08:05 < storge> i'm interested in it just by you talking about it
08:05 < storge> Sveta seems similar in reaction
08:05 < storge> you might find a legion
08:06 < storge> but you have to have something going before you get a lot of help
08:06 < Jackass420> I don't have many dupicates at the moment, I found a duplicate checker and got rid of lots of stuff already.
08:06 < Sitri> That's not what I meant
08:07 < Jackass420> But this isn't something a can host because all the drives have other things on them and everything is sort of broken up into three hard drives...
08:07 < Sitri> You can get block-level deduplication
08:07 < storge> In computing, data deduplication is a specialized data compression technique for eliminating duplicate copies of repeating data. Related and somewhat synonymous terms are intelligent (data) compression and single-instance (data) storage.
08:07 < storge> --wikipedia
08:07 < Jackass420> Like 7zip and tar.gz
08:07 < Jackass420> Well....
08:08 < storge> Jackass420: i thought it quirky at first, but the more we talk about it, i really like it
08:08 < Jackass420> I have been trying for a long while to get THAT going but it wasn't a superior goal since getting everything first was the main goal.
08:08 < Jackass420> I know I would be spedning probably years just zipping everything and organizing.
08:09 < storge> if you do it alone and un-automated, sure
08:09 < Sitri> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_(file_system) <-- the snapshots are deduplicated.  Though you could get the same by doing the storage to Venti directly instead.
08:09 < Jackass420> I really don't want to zip it and have it be unorganized. And I have no backups wither so it's not like I can just throw it up on public.
08:10 < Jackass420> either
08:10 < Sitri> What's the ultimate goal here anyways?
08:10 < Sitri> Just have all the Linux isos?
08:11 < Sveta> yes, including older releases
08:12 < Sveta> Jackass420: i'd suggest to have a cost estimate of the required hardware (possibly with raid) and figure out when you can accomplish that, and how
08:13 < Sveta> Jackass420: producing this cost estimate may first require a list of all download URLs to all .iso files, with a note of their file sizes
08:13 < Sveta> Jackass420: scripting something to obtain such a list may be a first (potentially relatively cheap) step
08:16 < storge> statistics
08:17 < storge> call most base install isos about a 1G, look at the list of distros at a place like distrowatch, at what release frequency. a spreadsheet can do this easily. then multiply to get a guess of storage space.
08:17 < storge> at some point, you'll likely need to tool up more, but mainly for outliers
08:17 < storge> measure twice, cut once
08:20 < MadMan1440> Jackass420 here
08:20 < MadMan1440> I got kicked
08:21 < Spookan> Ok?
08:21 < MadMan1440> Anyway, I have storage for more, I'm just not code savvy at all.
08:23 < MadMan1440> I'm getting puppy right now and even that is slow going.
08:25 < MadMan1440> Anyway, I'll try my luck out on the big google
08:25 < MadMan1440> See what I can find of anything else.
08:26 < MadMan1440> peace
08:41 < jim> notmike, not sure I understand... if they don't want it, what would inspire you to hide it?
09:07 < bobdobbs> how can I confirm lack of activity on a port?
09:09 < Elodin> what is a way to read a file line by line and pipe each line to another command
09:13 < Armand> bobdobbs: netstat -apn | grep ':80'
09:13 < Armand> Where ":80" is your port number..
09:13 < bobdobbs> thanks
09:13 < Armand> Or, use packet capture.
09:14 < bobdobbs> Armand: this might sound odd: I know that that netstat command can tell me if something is listening on that port... but can it also confirm if there is definitely nothing listening on that port?
09:15 < Armand> Zero match = zero listening. ;)
09:15 < bobdobbs> got it. thanks.
09:15 < sauvin> elodin: cat somefile | mycommand # ?
09:19 < Elodin> got my answer, xargs
09:21 < Elodin> hmm, not quite
09:25 < Tazmain> Hi all, I am still having issues with my hdmi, it seems if I manually load the radeon driver I get an error, see https://bpaste.net/show/06ef82d4ebed, so I have no external screen output now :(
09:27 < Pentode> Tazmain, you have a dual GPU system?
09:28 < sauvin> Elodin, what are you trying to do?
09:29 < Tazmain> Pentode, yes intel + amd
09:31 < metanovii> hi, somebody using etcd+confd ? I have one question
09:31 < Pentode> i suspect some kind of conflict between the two.
09:31 < Pentode> if X is using one gpu as a default display and hdmi is either tied to the other or being used for secondary output you may have problems
09:32 < Tazmain> Pentode, so what do I do ?
09:32 < Tazmain> Pentode, I tried to even blacklist radeon did not work
09:32 < Tazmain> and I can't turn off the i7's gpu
09:32 < Elodin> sauvin: i'm trying to read this file, and get every line and use a command like [command line[number]]
09:32 < Tazmain> Pentode, this is an issue on wayland and X
09:32 < Pentode> if you cant disable the i7 gpu you could try blacklisting the kernel modules for it
09:33 < Pentode> Tazmain, well truthfully the problem is related to linux's inability to control two different cards at once
09:34 < Tazmain> Intel Corporation HD Graphics 620 is what I have
09:34 < Tazmain> Pentode, yeah it seems so
09:34 < Tazmain> and its weird to me, since most super computers have 100's of GPU"s and those server run *nix
09:35 < Pentode> if the gpu / drivers are the same
09:36 < Pentode> try adding the i7 gpu modules to the module blacklist then restart x
09:36 < Pentode> also dont forget to rmmod them
09:37 < Tazmain> so I see this as well
09:37 < sauvin> Elodin, I'm not good with bash. Have you tried asking in #bash? Everything I'm trying is turning up garbage.
09:37 < Tazmain> Kernel modules: radeon, amdgpu , but it never uses amdgpu
09:38 < Pentode> well blacklisting and removing the intel modules will force X to try and use the AMD gpu per default, if this isn't already the case.
09:38 < Tazmain> will wayland do the same?
09:38 < Pentode> dunno, no experience with wayland at all
09:38 < Tazmain> I am currently on a wayland gnome session, I can go to a xorg gnome
09:38 < Pentode> sorry
09:38 < Tazmain> i'll try xorg then
09:39 < jada> I have directory with subdirectories + files, overall 2M files; I want to list their sizes and sort ascending, what tools should I use?
09:39 < jada> find / ls ?
09:40 < pingfloyd> Tazmain: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Hybrid_graphics
09:40 < Pentode> jada, ls -lSa?
09:41 < jada> Pentode I need recursive, not just top level directory
09:41 < Pentode> ls -rlSa?
09:41 < Pentode> + *
09:41 < Pentode> ls * -rlSa even
09:41 < jada> that can work, than I could pipe it to awk to extract the size?
09:41 < jada> and then pipe to sort?
09:42 < autopsy> jada sort -n
09:42 < jim> jada, see if you can get an output from find first
09:42 < Pentode> use -- erm ^
09:42 < jim> find the/starting/dir -ls
09:42 < jim> to start with
09:43 < jim> then see if you can isolate the name and size
09:43 < jada> find the/starting/dir -ls that works just fine
09:43 < jada> awk to isolate name/size?
09:43 < jada> or some tr maybe
09:44 < jim> once you can do that, see if you can have it list the size first, then pipe that to sort -n
09:44 < jim> let's see what a find some/dir -ls looks like
09:45 < jim> once you have output, then you can make those decisions
09:45 < Tazmain> pingfloyd, i've been through that wiki page already, spent 2 hours yesterday just to be back into square one, switcharoo doesn't work
09:46 < pingfloyd> Tazmain: hybrid is still pretty experimental in linux
09:46 < jada> find . -ls | awk '{ print $7 "  " $11 }'
09:46 < jada> that gives me pretty good start for sorting
09:47 < Tazmain> pingfloyd, yet it's something laptops have had for a long time
09:50 < lnnb16_t> vga out used to work fine
09:57 < leothenarwhal> What would be the best way to give users access to remove firewall rules?
09:57 < leothenarwhal> From certain chains
09:58 < bls> write a shell script, give them sudo access to execute it
10:06 < autopsy> val=0; export val; for value in $(find . -ls | awk '{ print $7 "  " $11 }' | cut -d" " -f1); do val=$(($value + $val)); echo "$val"; done
10:07 < autopsy> That will print out the total sizes of the files alltogethr.
10:07 < Tech_8> hi
10:11 < Tazmain> Pentode, no go, can't rmmod i915, or get it blacklisted, I used the install i915 /bin/flase so it's not loaded by anything else, and it was still loaded
10:12 < Pentode> hmm
10:12 < Pentode> makes since i guess since its being used as a primary by linux itself.
10:13 < Pentode> must be another way to ensure X is only using the radeon card, maybe check its output to see what infact it is actually using
10:14 < Pentode> maybe the problem lies somewhere else anyway, it was just an idea. sorry :|
10:18 < Tech_8> hi
10:18 < Tazmain> drm_kms_helper,radeon,i915,ttm , and dell_wmi,dell_laptop,i915 Pentode
10:18 < Tazmain> that is what is holding it
10:18 < Tazmain> I can unload all of that
10:24 < Tech_8> talk
10:24 < Tech_8> I said talk because im bored
10:24 < Tech_8> talk
10:24 < pingfloyd> hi bored
10:24 < Tech_8> because Im bored
10:24 < Tech_8> hi
10:25 < autopsy> Tazmain you have to blacklist i915 in modules.conf
10:32 < subaru> test
10:35 < MysticReverie> hi
10:36 < MysticReverie> best photoediting software for linux, with HDR editing in mind ?
10:36 < Desu> MysticReverie: depends on what editing you are going to do
10:36 < MysticReverie> HDR
10:36 < Desu> "my car is blue"
10:36 < fire2199> the usual way to mute err output is to append "2>/dev/null" to the considered command, but it seems it doesn't work with gpg2. How can i have only the decrypted content of a gpg file when using "gpg -d my_file.gpg"?
10:37 < MysticReverie> digital RAW photographs
10:37 < MysticReverie> HDR
10:37 < Desu> >_>
10:37 < Desu> still doesn't say anything
10:37 < MysticReverie> hmm?
10:37 < Desu> are you going to handcraft hdr images from multiple ones with area selection etc? or are you just going to flat merge / tweak some filters  etc
10:38 < MysticReverie> I want to fine tine my digital RAW photoraphs.  contrast, crop, and mainly HDR splitting of a RAW image to get mor edetail in the pictures
10:38 < MysticReverie> like corel paintshop pro does
10:38 < Desu> use darktable then
10:38 < MysticReverie> i am going to split one RAW image into three. then recombine them
10:38 < MysticReverie> darktable?
10:38 < MysticReverie> ok i will look, thanks
10:39 < Desu> not that darktable is that great at it, but gimp is just a sad joke
10:39 < Desu> specially from a workflow standpoint
10:39 < Desu> there really isn't a good ps alternative on gnu/linux
10:39 < MysticReverie> yea.. maybe virtual box still my best option unfortunately
10:40 < Desu> for most work darktable is pretty decent though
10:40 < MysticReverie> HDR is my main thing lol
10:40 < MysticReverie> i cant even use adobe lightroom so well
10:40 < MysticReverie> corel paintshop pro is real easy to use
10:41 < Desu> darktable supports tonemapping etc
10:42 < MysticReverie> im not sure.  i just use the gui on paintshop pro and if i liek wat i see, i go with that
10:42 < MysticReverie> i dont get on well with complex stuff
10:43 < Desu> darktable is sort of similar to lightroom etc
10:43 < MysticReverie> ok. maybe can just about work it out
10:44 < MysticReverie> lightroom was not too bad, but not as easy as paintshop
10:44 < MysticReverie> i will try  darktable
10:46 < BCMM> hugin has some HDR processing stuff i think
10:46 < MysticReverie> is it easy tho ?  lol
11:00 < MysticReverie> I can tsee how to split a single hdr raw photo in darktable
11:00 < MysticReverie> and google gives no joy
11:08 < jcelerier> hello :) anyone using Dolphin without KDE / Plasma ?
11:12 < jim> jcelerier, hi... I'm not, and, might I suggest you ask the original question you had about it, and add as many informative details as you know... you're much more likely to get a quality response (or response at all) if you let us know what your overall situation is
11:14 < Kadigan> Hey, I know Debian 9 is "current stable", but can anyone tell me what the overall "production-ready" situation is on it? I'm having trouble trying to find info on it, and I'm trying to decide whether I should push for Debian 9 or settle for 8.
11:14 < jada> stable 8 is the same stable as 9 or 5/6/7
11:15 < jada> the process is the same, you can get more details on #debian
11:15 < sauvin> "Current stable" generally does imply "production-ready".
11:15 < Kadigan> What about the ecosystem? Toolchains? I'm not asking for dry facts, but rather - what's your take on it?
11:16 < sauvin> What kind of "production" do you have in mind?
11:16 < iflema> as old as you can?
11:16 < stevendale> Debian testing and unstable are 'production-ready', look at Ubuntu
11:16 < Kadigan> sauvin: webserver deployment, mainly
11:16 < Kadigan> I already know that if I want to support HTTP/2, I'll need to bend over backwards to get the current Apache 2.4.24+ up
11:17 < iflema> future proof?
11:17 < stevendale> Ubuntu server might be better for your purpose than Kadigan
11:17 < Kadigan> (whether I should support HTTP/2 or not is another matter...)
11:17 < Kadigan> stevendale: I have no experience w/ Ubuntu though.
11:17 < jada> it's the same as debian, nearly
11:17 < sauvin> It's very similar, just a tad less stable.
11:18 < stevendale> You'll get newer packages, which is important for servers, especially if you intend on having it public/on the open web
11:19 < sauvin> "Newer packages" are not necessarily "better". Older packages tend to be more heavily debugged.
11:20 < Kadigan> From the comments so far I'm leaning towards Debian 8, though I've been wanting to put my hands on HTTP/2 for a while now...
11:21 < Kadigan> Though as I understand it, that'd be a set of problems wholly on its own...
11:21 < sauvin> Kadigan, "current stable" means it's already been extensively tested and vetted. There's really no point in going for an earlier stable without some driving specific reason.
11:21 < Kadigan> - and I don't have to use HTTP/2, even if I install 2.4.25, yeah.
11:22  * sauvin drinks something yummy and listens to his ears go "whee"
11:22 < jada> if you want stable, go for 'stable' debian 9, there is nothing more stable out there, really
11:23 < Kadigan> Okay. That's a wrap. Debian 9 it is.
11:23 < Kadigan> (#httpd also says 9)
11:23 < jim> what kind of machine do you want to install it on? what kind of net card?
11:24 < gidna> Hello
11:24 < Kadigan> Unknown - server hosting. Our client is purchasing the service right now (all we know is that it's not a shared or VPS env)
11:24 < Kadigan> and they need the final rec on OS
11:25 < jim> hu
11:25 < gidna> I'm trying to install linux via network, but I get DHCP failed while configuring the wifi
11:25 < jim> err hi
11:25 < gidna> I am prompted for ESSID. I enter the network name (SSID), then I am then prompted for the authentication type. I select WPA-PSK enter the passphrase but then the dhcp configuration fails
11:25 < jada> install over the wire
11:26 < jim> gidna, which dist are you trying to install? and, do you have a wired interface on that machine?
11:27 < gidna> jim: opensuse leap 45 only wifi
11:28 < jim> do you want to give debian a try instead?
11:28 < gidna> jim: Why debian is better off?
11:30 < jim> for one thing, I don't know anything about installing suse, and debian is one of the more stable dists overall out there... and -its- stable entry is extremely well tested... etc etc :) what I should do first is ask you what the purpose of the machine is
11:32 < jcelerier> "stable" in debian is stable as in, "does not change", not "does not have bugs"
11:32 < jim> gidna, maybe you know suse the best, in which case it might be the best for you to use
11:32 < gidna> jim: probably debian is best for me 'cause I've an old notebook...
11:33 < jim> we can try it.... what cpu does it have?
11:33 < Kadigan> Not sure what <that> is supposed to mean. :D
11:34 < gidna> an i3 with 2 Gb of ram
11:34 < lizzie> debian testing and unstable are still more stable than most distros' stable releases :P
11:34 < BCMM> using sid for about a year here and its surprisingly trouble-free
11:34 < lizzie> debian testing was my daily driver for a long time, back when games tended not to work without the latest versions of various libraries
11:35 < `Guest00000> i'm so addicted to linux' native virtual consoles. is there some way to use them not directly, but in X? that is, to have a program which displays their exact content in an X window, accepts input in that window, sends such input to the actual virtual console?
11:35 < jim> oh, that's still 64 bit intel... the arch is known as amd64
11:36 < lizzie> `Guest00000: not to blow off your question (I don't know the answer though I can tell you it would require root...), but I'm curious, why is that preferrable to regular virtual terminals?
11:36 < BCMM> gidna: i'd consider not using Debian Stable on an old netbook just because recent Firefox is *so* much faster than LTS
11:36 < jim> gidna, in any case, if you'd like to try it, I can get you an image that has some firmware for wireless net cards (and some other things)
11:36 < `Guest00000> lizzie: to have VT's content side by side with a graphical application's content
11:37 < BCMM> `Guest00000: start tmux on the vt, do `tmux a` in your favourite terminal emulator
11:37 < gidna> jim: yes I want to give it a try
11:37 < `Guest00000> hey, right, that's a very simple solution
11:37 < `Guest00000> thanks BCMM
11:37 < jim> ok one sec
11:37 < `Guest00000> i'm somewhat dumb
11:37 < BCMM> `Guest00000: but what people including me are struggling to understand is "what's wrong with just a regular terminal emulator?"
11:37 < lizzie> nah don't feel dumb, it's a clever solution...
11:38 < lizzie> and yeah, that.  a regular terminal emulator's contents can also be side by side with a graphical appliation :P
11:38 < BCMM> `Guest00000: like, why do you specifically want to see what's on the real VT?
11:38 < jim> gidna, https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/9.4.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-9.4.0-amd64-netinst.iso
11:38 < BCMM> is it a setup where you don't always have X running or something?
11:38 < `Guest00000> BCMM: you can't access what's in that emulator off X
11:38 < `Guest00000> except with that usage of tmux
11:38 < `Guest00000> secondly, aesthetics :P (sorry)
11:38 < lizzie> if you use the tmux trick, you're not really showing what's on the native vt, you're just setting them both up to show the same virtual terminal
11:39 < BCMM> `Guest00000: you can achieve same aesthetics with a fullscreen terminal emulator
11:39 < `Guest00000> maybe i can extract kernel's font and set a terminal emulator with it
11:39 < jim> gidna, I basically did it this way because I saw you struggling to connect, and debian has historically been the one that people can install
11:39 < lizzie> ahh I see, it's that you like to switch between your X side by side view, and the fullscreen terminal?
11:39 < `Guest00000> but again a terminal emulator might not emulate exactly linux's VT
11:39 < lizzie> then yeah I do think you are much better off just using a terminal emulator that can go fullscreen in X and use a font you enjoy
11:39 < `Guest00000> sorry, i've very esoteric preferences
11:40 < lizzie> fun question... do you have the package gpm installed?
11:40 < lizzie> if not...  well your builtin virtual terminals just got cooler.
11:40 < `Guest00000>  lizzie: yep, i do
11:40 < lizzie> ok!
11:40 < `Guest00000> gpm is quite a must-have
11:40 < `Guest00000> for VT users
11:41 < gidna> jim: Is this the latest stable version?
11:41 < BCMM> `Guest00000: have you tried 3270font?
11:41 < jim> gidna, yes
11:41 < `Guest00000> BCMM: i haven't yet done any font setup anywhere in linux
11:41 < BCMM> `Guest00000: old-school terminal aesthetics in a vector font suitable for modern high-density displays
11:42 < `Guest00000> i've yet to learn
11:43 < BCMM> imho it makes your terminal emulator of choice look even more like a proper terminal than the VT does
11:43 < jim> gidna, what you have to do is download that image file, then you have some choices... you can either dd (or rufus) it to a usb memory stick (image is already bootable, you don't need unetbootin), or you can burn it to a cd blank
11:44 < jim> then you boot it :)
11:45 < gidna> I'll burn it to a usb stick.. the important thing is that I can configure the wifi network..
11:45 < BCMM> `Guest00000: what do you think of the aesthetics? https://i.imgur.com/wY9xj8W.png
11:45 < jim> and, you can stick around in case you have any problems installing it (or booting the installer)
11:45 < `Guest00000> i'm using the 7x14 font in linux
11:46 < `Guest00000> btw, i have a 16-color boot logo instead of default 256-color one, i think it fits better to 16-color running lines on boot
11:47 < spreeuw> the 9 in that font is problematic
11:47 < `Guest00000> i have "gpmcopy" function in my .profile which starts gpm if it's not running, then accepts input until ^D, then stops gpm if it wasn't running and sends the input to xsel to copy to X's clipboard
11:47 < spreeuw> in one of the screenshots theres 2 9's next to eachother, they look different from eachother
11:47 < spreeuw> terminus is a nicer font
11:47 < spreeuw> but you need a fallback for utf8 completion
11:48 < jim> gidna, there's something special about the debian netinstalls, it has a copy of the debian minimal install (called the base) on the image, and if you end up having to leave the net unconfigured, it will install debian from that (then you reboot into the debian and the next thing to do is configure the net... buuuuttt, we'll see what happens
11:50 < gidna> ok so I can installa the system anyway, and then solve the netconfig issues...
11:51 < jim> gidna, yes
11:52 < `Guest00000> switching from a VT with a running Xorg to a VT with just a shell in text mode seems to lower CPU usage by Xorg and X programs running on that display, and also i can do something whenever Xorg or the programs are lagging due to any heavy computation running (e.g. compilation) in background on my cheap shitty laptop
11:53 < `Guest00000> this is when "sharing a terminal" between X and text-mode VT is useful
11:55 < gr1sha> I'm not able to execute a remote command using ssh, this is the output with '-vvv' https://paste.linux.community/view/edec9045
11:56 < gr1sha> my .bashrc is practically empty, but I added the test for PS1 and return anyway
11:56 < gr1sha> which didn't affect anything :X
11:56 < jim> what did you see that tells you you can't execute the command?
11:57 < `Guest00000> BCMM: i don't like that font
11:58 < gr1sha> jim: I see nothing, the terminal hangs
11:58 < gr1sha> and hello isn't printed :X
12:01 < gr1sha> does the "debug2: channel 0: request exec confirm 1" means that echo returned with exit code 1?
12:02 < kerframil> no
12:07 < gr1sha> that's good
12:07 < gr1sha> cause someone on ServerFault said it is :X
12:10 < kerframil> what's in .bashrc, anyway?
12:10 < kerframil> assuming bash is your chosen login shell on the remote side
12:12 < strive> kerframil: It's like your personal initialization file.
12:12 < kerframil> strive: that's not the nature of the question
12:13 < djph> kerframil: stuff
12:13 < gr1sha> kerframil: https://paste.linux.community/view/f4806385
12:16 < kerframil> gr1sha: alright. that doesn't appear problematic, although [[ $- != *i* ]] is a better way of checking for an interactive shell. check /etc/bash.bashrc also, if you have one.
12:16 < kerframil> for a non-interactive shell, even
12:17 < kerframil> gr1sha: and the command was just of the form ssh <host> 'echo hello', I take it?
12:17 < gr1sha> ssh -p <custom port> <host> 'echo hello'
12:17 < gr1sha> kerframil: and no more bashrc files on the machine :X
12:25 < kerframil> gr1sha: I don't think it's an issue of bash behaviour then. unfortunately, that means that the possible causes are many and varied and can range from openssh configuration down to issues at the network level. in your position, I'd try #openssh first.
12:25 < gr1sha> will do, thanks
12:26 < tymczenko> I frankly tried to google it on Superuser.com, but I can't find an answer. Guys, how to select all files in a folder except one particular?
12:27 < kerframil> tymczenko: select in what sense?
12:27 < tymczenko> I mean, for copying with `cp ...`
12:27 < kerframil> ok
12:28 < gr1sha> I'de go for 'ls | grep -v <file you dont want> | xargs
12:28 < kerframil> # in bash, you can enable extended globs with `shopt -s extglob` then, for example, `ls !(unwanted-filename)`
12:28 < kerframil> please don't parse ls though :p
12:29 < kerframil> see also https://mywiki.wooledge.org/glob#extglob
12:30 < kerframil> of course, just as with standard globs, you can use them just fine with cp
12:33 < diverdude> Hi, I am trying to communicate via USB to a thorlabs motorized stage ( https://www.thorlabs.com/Software/Motion%20Control/APT_Communications_Protocol.pdf ). In that manual it says under example for retrieving hardware information that I have to send the following:  TX 05, 00, 00, 00, 11, 01 How can i send that? I have opened and made connection to the port via cutecom, but I dont understand how to send these values. ANy ideas?
12:34 < tymczenko> kerframil, gr1sha, thanks!
12:34 < gr1sha> sure
12:43 < Desu> diverdude: serial device?
12:44 < Desu> if so, rust or python are nice
12:44 < diverdude> Desu: /dev/ttyUSB0
12:44 < Desu> https://pythonhosted.org/pyserial/
12:46 < Desu> if you want to poke it by hand then look at minicom/whatever
12:47 < Desu> diverdude: seems like people have wrapped the api already: https://github.com/qpit/thorlabs_apt
12:47 < Desu> diverdude: and a couple of others
12:47 < Desu> https://github.com/mcleu/PyAPT
12:51 < diverdude> Desu: yeah i wish i could use that....but that company is weird...only has windows driver so i cannot use that APT program on linux :(
13:08 < `Guest00000> is there a way to restart Xorg without restarting the clients?
13:09 < Tazmain> Hi all, no matter which kernel I boot to I keep getting BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at 0000000000000018
13:09 < Tazmain> And I have over 700 of these errors in my Problem Reporting tool in gnome
13:09 < Tazmain> So is it some setting, or is the hardware going belly up  ?
13:11 < adsc> Tazmain: have you seen this: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1441906 ?
13:15 < Tazmain> adsc, might have, it was closed
13:15 < Tazmain> looks like the intel driver is the cause ?
13:24 < morfin> hello
13:24 < morfin> what signal better to handle in my process running as daemon?
13:25 < joepie91> lol, does kidnextdoor just travel across all large channels on Freenode to complain about Node.js?
13:26 < morfin> what about Node.js?
13:26 < joepie91> he got a ban over #Node.js, a last warning over in ##javascript when he continued his rambling and behaviour there, and now he's apparently complaining in here... (a while ago)
13:26 < joepie91> just spotted it in the backlog
13:26 < morfin> but what about he were complaining
13:27 < joepie91> morfin: that's... not totally clear, lol
13:27 < joepie91> but something to do with Node.js
13:27 < morfin> ok
13:27 < morfin> just interested)
13:34 < morfin> basically my process is just one main loop and when signal caught i should 1. Create lock file. 2. Exit.
13:34 < morfin> just catch sigint?
13:34 < BluesKaj> Hi folks
13:35 < jim> hi blues
13:35 < BluesKaj> hi jim
13:36 < jim> morfin, what signal are you getting?
13:49 < emr> Hello my external usb drive somehow broken, i did badblocks -sv /dev/sdc1 > bad-blocks
13:49 < emr> resulted Pass completed, 28 bad blocks found. (28/0/0 errors)
13:50 < emr> now i'm going to use fsck -t ext4 -l bad-blocks-result /dev/sdc1
13:50 < emr> is this correct?
13:51 < jim> emr, 28 out of the total number of blocks can't be that bad... can you add those to a bad block list?
13:52 < emr> sure jim, if i know how to
13:52 < jim> maybe the badblocks program has a way to do it?
13:53 < emr> let me check manuals thanks man
13:59 < kerframil> as you didn't select an aligned block size when running badblocks, I wouldn't recommend it
14:00 < kerframil> would have been easier to use mkfs.ext4 -c ...
14:01 < kerframil> besides, if the disk is exhibiting surface defects that it can no longer transparently remap in firmware, I would recommend replacing the disk
14:01 < lambdoid> Hmm, Windows 10 was only getting about 700 kB a second but Linux is getting about 1.1 Megabytes a second download
14:01 < lambdoid> what the hell
14:02 < jim> maybe it should be windows .10?
14:03 < jim> I guess linus is a better coder than bill :)
14:04 < FightingFalcon> is there a log file which shows when internet connection is cut off?
14:05 < zenix_2k2> so one nooby question in Linux, if i am in a root group, does that mean i have read/write/execute permission on every file ?
14:05 < jim> some programs have a protocol for a connection... like pppd for example, which can notice when the other side goes away (or shuts the connection/protocol down properly)
14:06 < Desu> zenix_2k2: no
14:06 < lambdoid> zenix_2k2, every file and directory has three access groups
14:06 < lambdoid> user group and other
14:06 < Desu> zenix_2k2: most files are not :root
14:06 < jim> that could be logged, sometimes there are ways to get a connection that aren't logged, and they can't tell when the other side goes away
14:06 < Desu> :root x7x even
14:07 < zenix_2k2> Desu:  HHHmmm... what if a file is in the root group, does that mean i have full control of it ? or i still need to adjust permission with chmod ?
14:07 < Desu> zenix_2k2: sounds like a xyproblem
14:07 < Desu> and no
14:07 < zenix_2k2> No i am not doing anything with these things i am just wondering
14:07 < zenix_2k2> so it is not an xy
14:07 < jim> zenix_2k2, you would adjust permission
14:08 < Desu> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_system_permissions#Traditional_Unix_permissions
14:08 < zenix_2k2> jim: but, that is "root" group...
14:08 < Desu> also read up on posix acl
14:08 < jim> well you can try it
14:09 < zenix_2k2> well, thought that everything that has the term "root" in it can do pretty much anything :P
14:10 < Desu> there is nothing magic about the root group, unlike the user (well, uid 0 really)
14:11 < zenix_2k2> HHHmmm... then why did they even put "root" in it ?
14:12 < kerframil> emr: to transform a list of 0-indexed blocks from 512B blocks to 4KiB blocks: perl -nE 'say int($_ / 8)' < list
14:41 < `ani`> I need a suggestion for doing a "shred" on a 2TB drive. it takes 7h to finish one iteration and there are three iterations.
14:41 < compdoc> heh
14:41 < `ani`> I cannot keep the computer turned on for 21h just for that.
14:41 < `ani`> there's got to be a quicker way.
14:41 < compdoc> you selling it?
14:41 < `ani`> no.
14:41 < `ani`> backup storage to keep at home
14:42 < compdoc> then no need to do that at all
14:42 < Tazmain> Hi all, I am trying to use xrandr to change to my AMD gpu instead of the intel. I have the providers here https://bpaste.net/show/31a14bc421a8, if I use xrandr --setprovideroffloadsink HAINAN modesetting I get cannot find provider with name HAINAN
14:42 < `ani`> well, I would want to ensure that the drive is inaccessible.
14:42 < Tazmain> even 1 0 fails
14:42 < compdoc>  inaccessible means cant use it
14:42 < `ani`> <- only accessor.
14:44 < compdoc> then encrypt or just use passwords to log in
14:46 < `ani`> compdoc: what do you suppose I'm doing?
14:46 < `ani`> correct, I'm encrypting.
14:46 < `ani`> could somebody give a proper answer please.
14:47 < azarus> ata secure erase maybe
14:51 < BluesKaj> `ani`, we don't read minds here, tell us what YOU are doing besides encryption
14:52 < `ani`> BluesKaj: scrambling the disc before.
14:57 < ayecee> `ani`: there is not a quicker way.
14:59 < ayecee> `ani`: also, one pass of zeroing the drive should be adequate. ata secure erase is an ideal way to do that, since the drive does the erasing itself, and keeps on erasing even if power is interrupted.
15:01 < ayecee> i guess there's a quicker way after all.
15:01 < jbit> ata secure erase will also generally erase the "spare" sectors on a drive, which normal filling will not erase
15:11 < `ani`> thanks for the replies.
15:19 < MrKeuner> hey, how can I see why logrotate thinks a /opt/httpd/logs/foo_log does not need rotating?
15:19 < MrKeuner> -v doesn't help
15:20 < MrKeuner> foo_log is non-empty and three days old and logrotate is set to daily rotation
15:22 < jim> are there any foo_log.1, .2, .3.gz, etc?
15:23 < jim> if no, maybe nothing got logged to it
15:24 < MrKeuner> jim, foo_log is alone no .1s or .gzs
15:24 < MrKeuner> foo_log is literally foo_log for testing purposes, wildcard is *_log
15:25 < MrKeuner> jim, file is not empty
15:27 < E|nMann> MrKeuner: does /opt/httpd/logs have enough disk space? do the permission allow logrotate to do its thing?
15:27 < MrKeuner> E|nMann, thanks, checking...
15:28 < MrKeuner> E|nMann, yes and yes
15:28 < MrKeuner> I assume logrotate runs as root, no
15:29 < MrKeuner> also, permission error would probably return an error in the verbose logrotate output
15:30 < tmplt> I'm running benchmarks on a server with a lot of idle cores. If I, say, benchmark two branches of a program, can I assume Linux will put work on idle cores and not share cores between the programs? e.g. with 16 idle cores, could I start two 8-core programs and not have them affect eachother performance-wise?
15:30 < ananke> tmplt: correct. you can look up the details behind process affinity on linux if you need
15:31 < ananke> tmplt: eg: https://www.glennklockwood.com/hpc-howtos/process-affinity.html
15:31 < tmplt> ananke: alright, thanks!
15:32 < ananke> tmplt: so the long answer is actually 'it depends on how your threads behave'
15:36 < kerframil> MrKeuner: logrotate -d
15:43 < MrKeuner> kerframil, of course! thanks
15:43 < hfp> Out of curiosity, is btrfs reliable enough to use or should I stick to zfs?
15:44 < MrKeuner> kerframil, -d doesn't seem to produce any different than -v
15:44 < kerframil> MrKeuner: you didn't specify the path to your config file, perhaps
15:44 < MrKeuner> I did
15:45 < kerframil> then it should provide an insight as to why it doesn't think a log is eligible for rotating
15:45 < kerframil> either that, or your config file doesn't reference or include a file that references the log file you're trying to match
15:45 < MrKeuner> kerframil, log wildcard is speciefied as *_log
15:46 < kerframil> it spits out all the details of the decisions made with -d
15:46 < MrKeuner> I tried -d, -d -v, -v -d
15:46 < MrKeuner> hmm maybe a version thing
15:46 < kerframil> I don't think so
15:46 < kerframil> did you run it with /etc/logrotate.conf?
15:47 < triceratux> hfp: it depends on whom you ask. if you ask opensuse, btrfs is ready to go. opinions differ, ymmv
15:47 < MrKeuner> no, sudo logrotate -d /etc/logrotate.d/httpd
15:47 < MrKeuner> sudo logrotate --version        logrotate 3.8.7
15:47 < kerframil> MrKeuner: try it with /etc/logrotate.conf, so that the behaviour matches what it would normally do
15:47 < MrKeuner> ok
15:48 < ananke> hfp: consider the fact that redhat is removing btrfs from rhel
15:48 < searedvandal> hfp, I run btrfs on one of my laptops without any issues. But I wouldn't trust it in raid mode, that's not production ready just yet as far as I know.
15:49 < kerframil> hfp: it's certainly usable but the code quality isn't the best. it doesn't perform very well in fuzzing tests, for example.
15:50 < searedvandal> I would go with zfs of the two for a storage server. for a random desktop/laptop the other way around. if I had to choose from the two.
15:50 < MrKeuner> kerframil, used logrotate.conf and all including httpd script ran. here is httpd block https://gist.github.com/Kudret/04e9b1edda8dcae4cee090b843e1127b
15:50 < MrKeuner> I ran sudo logrotate -d /etc/logrotate.conf
15:51 < kerframil> MrKeuner: hmm, the debugging output isn't as useful as I'd hoped. I think that's because you're using an old version.
15:51 < kerframil> MrKeuner: it's much more detailed in 3.14.0, for example
15:52 < MrKeuner> kerframil, I think os. thanks for your help!
15:52 < kerframil> MrKeuner: what is the actual rotation policy? perhaps review that (remember, logrotate.conf is where it begins) and run stat on one of the skipped logs to check the timestamps
15:54 < MrKeuner> kerframil, actual? do you mean the default? appears like 4 days daily. I set it to 2 years daily in httpd conf.
15:56 < kerframil> MrKeuner: yes, as in the actual content of your policy files
16:04 < MrKeuner> kerframil, sure here is the http policy file: https://gist.github.com/Kudret/8867d8fdafc24c4fa8b829971679a40e
16:05 < hans_> what was the prgoram that wrote zeroes to all unused space of a ntfs partition? ntfszero, ntfswipe, something like that
16:05 < hans_> nvm, it was "ntfswipe", but i managed to write "ntfsWIFE" in google when searching for it -.-
16:06 < MrKeuner> ntfswife won't match too many results
16:06 < rumpel> hans_, dd if=/dev/zero of=/fileofzeroes  ?
16:06 < MrKeuner> noo
16:07 < Psi-Jack> hans_: "nevermind" not "nvm" for future corrections.
16:07 < hans_> rumpel, that will delete everything on the partition. ntfswipe only zeroes the UNUSED parts of a ntfs partition, leaving the filesystem & files intact :)
16:07 < Psi-Jack> hans_: It is preferred here to use standard English. :)
16:07 < hans_> Psi-Jack, british or american english?
16:08 < Psi-Jack> Standard English. (Technically America did the standardization, despite popular knowledge)
16:09 < ananke> hans_: simply mount the filesystem, and use rumpel's suggestion to write to a _file_ on that mounted filesystem
16:10 < hans_> rumpel, it's useful for creating compressed backups of partitions. if you do "dd if=/dev/sda2 | xz - > backup.img.xz" , the backup will probably be much bigger than running "ntfswipe -a /dev/sda2; dd if=/dev/sda2 | xz - > backup.img.xz"
16:10 < MrKeuner> if all zeros compression would take care of that
16:13 < rumpel> hans_, it won't delete anything
16:13 < rumpel> hans_, except the data in files which are already deleted
16:15 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: the more im looking at the solus posts the more it looks like it is quite fond of efi style fat. this could explain why it wont boot from either an ISO or a squashfs.img sitting on ext2. on uefi systems it just goes ahead & installs itself into a preexisting EFI partition. this could explain why im the only user having any kind of issue, & why uefi laptop types have no issues with the install
16:16 < Psi-Jack> You broke it, basically. By not doing it correctly. :)
16:16 < triceratux> "distro highly suitable for newbs" shouldnt mean "cant install or execute without a fat partition somewhere". if i get real interested ill test this out on a flashdrive
16:17 < Psi-Jack> I don't use FAT anywhere. :p
16:17  * triceratux accepts full responsibility for breaking solus3
16:17 < hans_> ananke, ntfswipe is better. ntfs keeps record of deleted file's filenames in "directory indexes", which ntfswipe deletes. ntfs may also keep "recently deletes files" for a undelete scheme. also, (unless transparent compression is enabled, this changes it i believe), ntfs allocates blocks at a time, even if you have a 1 byte file, ntfs will allocate something like 4096 bytes to save that 1 byte file. ntfswipe will zero out the allocated-but-unuse
16:17 < hans_> d bytes of these files. ntfswipe can also wipe the event logs if you don't want to backup that.. anyway, ntfswipe will do a better job than making a huge file of zeroes
16:17 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: your efi partitions arent fat ?
16:17 < Psi-Jack> My multi-boot thumb drive doesn't use FAT at all.
16:17 < Psi-Jack> My laptop uses EFI, which is FAT though, yes.
16:17 < hans_> (it does a few other things that i didn't mention too)
16:18 < kerframil> MrKeuner: so, the files should be rotated daily, if they are not empty. keep in mind that logrotate maintains a state file to ensure that it doesn't rotate any more often than the intended schedule, no matter how frequently it is run. that lives at /var/lib/logrotate.status.
16:18 < saban> hi. is it posible to mount lets say 5x smb share from 5 server to single mount point in read only?
16:19 < BluesKaj> triceratux, i couldn't install solus alongside another OS in dual boot, the installer wouldn't install on a 3rd and 4th primary partition even in legacy mode
16:19 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: great. youre saving me a lot of time. in that case i still cant figure out why i cant boot it except in qemu-kvm on swagarch. ive clearly got a clen image. & as you know i do this a great deal. this is the type of distro id just give up on after a few more days
16:19 < MrKeuner> kerframil, was totally unaware of that, thank you
16:19 < kerframil> MrKeuner: you can arbitrarily force rotation with -f, in which case it will disregard the time at which it last ran
16:19 < kerframil> MrKeuner: other than that, your policy does look like it should be doing what you want
16:20 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, my thumbdrives use ext4.
16:20 < triceratux> BluesKaj: yep. when you start googling for "installer" on solus thats exactly what it says. you have to invoke gparted explicitly & restart the installer on a properly partitioned machine. it also wont give you a choice between multiple efi partitions
16:21 < kerframil> MrKeuner: if it's not happening automatically, look into your cron setup also. it's imperative that logrotate is successfully invoked at least once a day from cron (or systemd or whatever).
16:21 < Psi-Jack> Course, my UEFI enabled thumbdrive has a 1MB BIOS BOOT, 50M EFI System, and the rest ext4.
16:21 < BluesKaj> triceratux, I followed that instruction , but it still wouldn't let go any further thaqn that warning
16:22 < triceratux> BluesKaj: i wont run installers at all, but im surprised how they still call this a n00b-fiendly distro considering how the installer only does half the job
16:23 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: its been almost a year since solus3. do you know if a solus4 is on the way ?
16:23 < Psi-Jack> It's WIP.
16:24 < ayecee> wip it. wip it good.
16:24 < BluesKaj> as you said triceratux , solus favours uefi , but I can't be bothered with that since i never use more than 4 partitions on a drive anyway
16:25 < Psi-Jack> BluesKaj: EFI has nothing to do with ... that. :p
16:26 < BluesKaj> Psi-Jack, with?
16:26 < Psi-Jack> How many partitions you use..
16:26 < BluesKaj> yes, but legacy mode does
16:27 < stefanie_> hello guys! i got in trouble. on my server i use openssh, and yesterday night i created the public/private key pair. i just copied the pub key to all other devices and disabled the password authentication method on the server side. Now i cannot connect anymore :) what did i mess up!
16:27 < Psi-Jack> There's a lot more involved that just number of partitions. ;p
16:27 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: not directly, but the history of the solus installer / bootloader shows that BIOS / MBR is an only partially supported afterthought. they went all in for 64bit uefi & that goofiboot stuff. its hard to see what state thats in as of 20170815
16:28 < stefanie_> triceratux: i had bad experiences with solus and bios!
16:28 < Psi-Jack> Well, my primary desktop has no UEFI or EFI.
16:28 < BluesKaj> uefi is a pita  for me uefi/gpt efi boot ...why bother
16:28 < Psi-Jack> My test VM uses BIOS. :)
16:29 < BluesKaj> I'm a stubborn old man :-)
16:29 < Psi-Jack> BluesKaj: Well, one example where it matters: Your primary drive being >= 4 GiB.
16:29 < triceratux> ah more bad solus experiences crawling out of the woodwork :) you sure cant find that many of them online. everybody in the linux world is some kind of solus fan
16:30 < MrKeuner> kerframil, thank you so much. -f did the trick for me. Since this is a staging machine anyways I didn't cate logrotation was done more than suggested
16:30 < kerframil> MrKeuner: I see
16:41 < ayecee> this is a bit esoteric, but maybe i'll get lucky. samba as AD server stores passwords as NTLM hash. I'd like to have SHA1 hashes as well to sync with external services. How to make that happen, short of code changes?
16:42 < CofyGround> Hey there
16:43 < CofyGround> Can somebody help me real quick?
16:43 < konimex> just ask the qustion
16:43 < konimex> s/qustion/question
16:43 < ayecee> probably not. it's going to take a few round trips to figure out what the problem is.
16:43 < Psi-Jack> To obtain help... One must start by asking an actual question.
16:43 < Psi-Jack> Providing details of the problem, what's been done, what's been seen, etc.
16:45 < wasp> Hi does anybody know how the pipe *command* is called? something with p...
16:45 < ayecee> what pipe command
16:45 < rumpel> Wasp, you mean pv?
16:45 < Psi-Jack> pipeview, pv?
16:46 < Wasp> There was an alternative to `paste <(ls) <(ls)`
16:46 < Psi-Jack> Huh?
16:46 < CofyGround> Im using xfce and I'm experiencing a huge drop of performance after about 2 hours of usage. Especially when using Chromium (+watching videos) I read some stuff about there being memory leaks but couldn't really figure out where to go from there
16:46 < ayecee> have you tried turning it off and on again
16:46 < Wasp> rumpel: & Psi-Jack : no, that wasnt the one, doesnt evenhave it
16:47 < Psi-Jack> Wasp: Well, you make no sense at all.
16:47 < CofyGround> ayecee switched my router on and off a few times :~)
16:47 < ayecee> that's a weird thing to do
16:47 < Psi-Jack> He did it FOR SCIENCE!
16:47 < CofyGround> Its a meeme
16:48 < ayecee> can't be. i haven't heard it.
16:48 < Psi-Jack> it is? Since when?
16:48 < ayecee> no forced memes, please
16:49 < Sitri> Wasp: you just want to duplicate the input?
16:49 < Sitri> Into a new column?
16:49 < triceratux> https://pics.me.me/when-you-restart-the-router-but-it-still-doesnt-work-6566870.png
16:50 < Wasp> Sitri: was just a stupid example
16:50 < Sitri> What are you actually wanting to do?
16:51 < Wasp> Sitri: no I don't want to duplicate the input i am looking for the pipe *command* that can replace the bash specific syntax of <(..)
16:51 < Psi-Jack> ayecee: Seems you were right.
16:52 < ayecee> what pipe command
16:52 < Sitri> So something that outputs a temporary FIFO's filepath and executes its arguments redirecting that process' stdout into the FIFO?
16:52 < Psi-Jack> You know. *THE* pipe command. LOL
16:52 < ayecee> like, command1 | command2 ?
16:52 < ayecee> is | the pipe command there?
16:52 < Sitri> Or something more generic?
16:53 < jhodrien> Are you wanting a right to left pipe?
16:53 < hans_> u sure | is the pipe command?
16:53 < ayecee> you, please
16:54 < Psi-Jack> hans_: "you" not "u", again, Standard English, please.
16:54 < ayecee> | is not a command, so it can't be a pipe command.
16:54 < Psi-Jack> Beat me to it. heh
16:54 < hans_> tee  then?
16:55 < ayecee> are you just saying random words
16:55 < Psi-Jack> hans_: Just so you are better aware as well, it actually is a matter of channel policy to use Standard English here, really.
16:55 < hans_> ayecee, no, was referencing this http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man1/tee.1.html
16:55 < hans_> Psi-Jack, okay
16:55 < ayecee> i know what tee is. it doesn't seem relevant.
16:56 < Psi-Jack> Wasp: There's no "pipe command", so, you'd best better explain what you actually want to accomplish.
16:56 < Psi-Jack> If you want help, of course. :)
16:56 < hans_> Wasp, what are you trying to do?  if you want something else than pastebinit < file   , maybe try some cat abuse?   cat file | pastebinit
16:57 < Sitri> Well, there is coproc.  But without a better description I'm going to have a hard time recalling/finding what he actually wants.
16:57 < Sitri> coproc is a bash built-in
16:57 < ayecee> we could just keep guessing while he says nothing
16:57 < ayecee> that's always fun
16:58 < Psi-Jack> Well, he said it was something with a p...
16:58 < Psi-Jack> LOL
16:58 < ayecee> that narrows it down
16:59 < streuner> is auth_basic enough for securing development environment?
16:59 < triceratux> https://i.imgflip.com/2b9ui8.jpg
17:00 < Psi-Jack> IS it accessed over a network?
17:00 < ayecee> streuner: sure, with ssl
17:00 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: heh. Nice one.
17:01 < Psi-Jack> Though, obvious differences in that. ;)
17:01 < triceratux> router restart memes are far more fun than solus. thats why linux is so great
17:01 < hailhydra> urxvt has become too slow. Please recommend a new terminal emulator.
17:01 < Sitri> sterm
17:01 < ayecee> xterm
17:02 < SuperSeriousCat> Cant go even 1 day without seeing "Solus" now
17:02 < hailhydra> xterm is even worse
17:02 < ayecee> it's infectious
17:02 < ayecee> like an STD
17:02 < ayecee> hailhydra: pfft. everyone's a critic.
17:02 < searedvandal> cool retro term
17:03 < searedvandal> hailhydra, termite
17:03 < hailhydra> I tried st but I is too basic and I don't know how to recompile it with a config
17:03 < azarus> I pretty much stuck with st for more than a year now
17:03 < triceratux> SuperSeriousCat: bwahahaha i take full credit for that, & i cant even run it :P
17:03 < azarus> did everything it needed
17:03 < hailhydra> does st support tabs?
17:04 < azarus> hailhydra: yup, you press the tab key
17:04 < hailhydra> I liked urxvt tabs
17:04 < Psi-Jack> SuperSeriousCat: Muahahahahaha.
17:04 < hailhydra> by default?
17:04 < azarus> you do mean \t right
17:04 < searedvandal> it doesn't support the tabs you're thinking of probably
17:04 < ayecee> "can i get something that's exactly like urxvt, but isn't urxvt?"
17:04 < hailhydra> basically
17:04 < azarus> literal <tab>s are supported by st, no problem
17:04 < hailhydra> can I get urxvt but not slow in vim
17:05  * azarus stops being a troll
17:05 < ayecee> why is your uxrvt slow in vim
17:05 < ayecee> maybe ask that
17:05 < SuperSeriousCat> Dont understand why. The webpage make me go "meh, it look like wannabe ios"
17:05 < hailhydra> probably the 20+ plugins I have
17:05 < ayecee> that would make sense
17:05 < ayecee> have you tried not doing that
17:05 < hailhydra> but in gnome-term its fine and in st its fine. Just ugly font and no tabs in st
17:06 < azarus> st is as configurable as any other term
17:06 < Psi-Jack> SuperSeriousCat: That makes.. Literally no sense. :p
17:06 < azarus> with enough effort
17:06 < hailhydra> azarus: don't you have to recompile though?
17:06 < searedvandal> probably cut back on your plugin use in urxvt, or change to a terminal you don't need 20+ plugins to function as you want
17:06 < Psi-Jack> Configuration != changing code to make it do something different. :p
17:06 < Psi-Jack> hailhydra: Yes
17:06 < hailhydra> I installed st through apt-get
17:06 < azarus> you can change the font with the -f switch
17:07 < azarus> but why would you
17:07 < ayecee> you could maybe say sterm, since st is quite a different program
17:07 < ayecee> it's not that many more keys
17:07 < azarus> simple term by suckless
17:07 < hailhydra> stterm is what I have
17:07 < hailhydra> maybe thats not the one from suckless
17:07 < azarus> Simple X11 Terminal emulator by the friendly folks over at suckless.org
17:07 < hailhydra> I thought it was though cause I got it from suckless-tools
17:08 < metrixx> hi girls
17:08 < Psi-Jack> suckless software, the software YOU have to hack to make it suck less.
17:08 < azarus> exactly! infinitely yours
17:08 < hailhydra> "everything is broke in Linux until you fix it" - Linus Torvalds
17:08 < azarus> ... i don't believe linus said that
17:09 < hailhydra> he did. a long long time ago at a convention
17:09 < Psi-Jack> Then that quote looses all of its actual context.
17:09 < hailhydra> it was pretty sarcastic
17:09 < ayecee> "you can't trust quotes on the internet." -- Abraham Lincoln
17:09 < metrixx> if you ask a girl to talk and recognize eachother via instant messenger and got answer "no", would you try to ask again face to face?
17:10 < hailhydra> k I'll configure st on the weekend and just limp through today and tomorrow
17:10 < BluesKaj> sounds out of context to me, most likely sarcasm by Linus
17:10 < Psi-Jack> metrixx: Do you have a Linux question?
17:10 < ayecee> metrixx: no
17:10 < metrixx> Psi-Jack, it is linux related
17:10 < Psi-Jack> No, it's not.
17:11 < metrixx> ayecee, thank you
17:14 < triceratux> ruh roh https://www.datamation.com/open-source/top-10-reasons-why-desktop-linux-failed.html
17:17 < Psi-Jack> There's a not a nonsense on that page.
17:19 < ayecee> looks legit
17:19 < ayecee> chromeos is based on gentoo?
17:19 < ayecee> that doesn't sound correct
17:20 < Psi-Jack> Like I said. A lot of nonsense. :)
17:20 < ayecee> you said a not a nonsense
17:20 < ayecee> it's difficult to interpret
17:21 < dgurney> ayecee, chrome os is based on gentoo
17:21 < dgurney> you'd know if you've ever built a chromium os image
17:21 < ayecee> in what way would i know that
17:22 < Psi-Jack> lot*
17:22 < Psi-Jack> lot of*
17:23 < Psi-Jack> Chromium OS may be based upon Gentoo, that doesn't mean that Chrome OS is.
17:23 < dgurney> what sort of logic is that
17:26 < first-order> mirrors.kernel.org is down apparently.
17:26 < dgurney> the only things that make Chrome OS different from Chromium OS are branding, auto-updates, support from Google instead of community, and various included binary blobs
17:26 < first-order> Rest of the site isn't though.
17:26 < dgurney> other than that, the codebase is exactly the same.
17:27 < triceratux> "Chrome OS is a GNU/Linux distribution based on Gentoo that is installed on Chromebooks." https://wiki.installgentoo.com/index.php/ChromeOS
17:28 < first-order> Basically the difference between Chrome and Chromium as far as the browsers go.
17:28 < dgurney> exactly
17:28 < triceratux> https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-secret-origins-of-googles-chrome-os/
17:28  * first-order could install Chrome if he wanted to though, has the repo enabled for it.
17:29 < first-order> The only third-party repo I have on here too.
17:30 < gidna> jim: I'm trying to install firmware-9.4.0-amd64-netinst but it says cdrom not found 'cause I'm on a pendrive..
17:31 < first-order> But no, if you run the kernel.org mirrors for your repos, you'll be disappointed when you try to run updates right now....
17:32 < triceratux> "Moreover Chromium OS is built using Portage from Gentoo with a specific overlay called the Chromium OS portage overlay." http://blog.teamgrowth.net/index.php/open-source/build-your-private-chromium-os-chromebook
17:33 < dgurney> yeah
17:33 < triceratux> looks like both of them are deep into the gentoo thing
17:34 < first-order> So if I wanted to, and I ran Gentoo, I could technically build ChromiumOS then.
17:35 < dgurney> first-order, you can build Chromium OS on any distro really
17:35 < dgurney> of course, being familiar with Gentoo can help if you have issues during the build process
17:35 < first-order> Can't think of any .rpm or .deb overlays for ChromiumOS while an official portage overlay exists for it.
17:36 < first-order> Which .rpm and .dev are referenced because most mainstream distros out there are based on either of those two packaging formats.
17:37 < first-order> *.deb
17:38 < first-order> (although I wouldn't necessarily consider Fedora or Debian mainstream the way Ubuntu or recently OpenSUSE are)
17:39 < first-order> Fedora has a short shelf life and generally bleeding-edge software, and stable Debian while having a long shelf life, generally has packages that are too old to be of worth unless you have the backports repo enabled.
17:40 < first-order> And that repo generally does a decent job of bridging the gap between stability and recent software.
17:40 < Psi-Jack> first-order: No, Fedora has cutting-edge, not bleeding edge.
17:40 < Psi-Jack> Quite a bit different. :)
17:41 < first-order> Although IIRC Arch and Fedora are kinda in competition with one another in that area.
17:41 < Psi-Jack> No, nobody's competing with Arch.
17:42 < searedvandal> its mostly red hat and suse that's competing.
17:42 < Psi-Jack> Heh, though Solus seems to be more popular than openSUSE is, on the surface. :)
17:43 < Nexilva> Good morning
17:43 < first-order> Although if you want something that you won't need to be in the terminal more often than you are actually using the system, go for Debian Stable+backports.
17:43 < first-order> Or CentOS, but I don't recommend it for desktops based on its generally spartan package selection, even with third-party repos enabled.
17:45 < E|nMann> CentOS does not even have mc :(
17:45 < first-order> Debian /w backports is more than stable enough for general desktop usage, the backports repo helps to provide newer software where needed, eg. with Mesa, and it has more than enough packages available in the main repos to where you can get away with just using them.
17:45 < CyberManifest> Is anyone here running Linux on a Mac Laptop?
17:46 < Psi-Jack> CyberManifest: Are you?
17:46 < first-order> Or, you grab Mesa 17.3 from backports in Stretch, and you can be running OpenGL 4.5 on a stable Debian install.
17:46 < CyberManifest> Psi-Jack: yes
17:46 < CyberManifest> System:    Host MacBook-Pro Kernel 4.15.0-24-generic x86_64 bits 64 Desktop Xfce 4.12.3
17:46 < CyberManifest>            Distro Linux Mint 19 Tara
17:46 < Psi-Jack> first-order: Are you just randomly rambling on and on and on and on?
17:47 < Psi-Jack> CyberManifest: Good for you.
17:47 < triceratux> CyberManifest: thats not just linux, thats mint 19 xfce. nothing could possibly go wrong
17:47 < CyberManifest> Psi-Jack: Thanks :)
17:47 < first-order> triceratux, Other than how Mint is known to handle their repos.
17:48 < first-order> Which to keep it short, isn't very good.
17:48 < CyberManifest> triceratux: I don't know what you mean by that, but ok; also my webcam doesn't work and my command key doesn't function as usual or as expected or I guess I should say as desired.
17:49 < first-order> Client: HexChat 2.12.4 • OS: Debian 9.4 • CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4310M CPU @ 2.70GHz (2.70GHz) • Memory: Physical: 15.2 GiB Total (12.6 GiB Free) Swap: 15.5 GiB Total (15.5 GiB Free) • Storage: 244.0 GB / 491.0 GB (247.0 GB Free) • VGA: Intel Corporation 4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller • Uptime: 1d 17h 21m 58s
17:49 < E|nMann> first-order: how do they handle their repos?
17:49 < first-order> E|nMann, For one, IIRC, they don't update their kernel very often.
17:49 < E|nMann> no, no. hold on. save the rant for the others
17:49 < CyberManifest> first-order: what's wrong with their repos ? I mean there are outside sources to install things too and PPAs can be added
17:50 < E|nMann> i am only interested in the repos problems
17:50 < Wixy> Hi all. After running "sysctl -w fs.file-max=100000" I still see the limit of file descriptors is 4096, according to "ulimit -Hn". What am I missing?
17:50 < CyberManifest> also I have this nasty shrug bug
17:50 < Wixy> is fs.file-max a global limit but there's a per user limit which is still 4096?
17:50 < CyberManifest> ¯¥_(ツ)_/¯
17:50 < CyberManifest> instead of
17:50 < CyberManifest> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
17:50 < first-order> Their main problem IIRC is similar to how Manjaro does theirs.
17:50 < Psi-Jack> Simply put: Badly.
17:50 < E|nMann> ahem?
17:51 < CyberManifest> first-order: that really doesn't explain anything
17:51 < Psi-Jack> It really does, actually. :p
17:51 < first-order> And Manjaro has pissed off a few people in the Arch community with refusing to push a pretty major security update though.
17:51 < first-order> Numerous times.
17:52 < Girtablulu> Reasoning?
17:52 < CyberManifest> first-order: do you have any specifics for Mint?
17:52 < first-order> Manjaro's reasoning IIRC is they're shooting for 'stability.'
17:53 < Psi-Jack> Girtablulu: lazy.
17:53 < CyberManifest> Again I ask: IS ANYONE ELSE HERE USING LINUX ON AN APPLE BRANDED MAC LAPTOP?
17:53 < Girtablulu> So sec updates brakes X, why does this sound familiar to me
17:53 < Psi-Jack> CyberManifest: STOP
17:53 < first-order> And nope in my case.
17:53 < triceratux> https://www.techrepublic.com/article/why-the-linux-mint-hack-is-an-indicator-of-a-larger-problem/
17:53 < CyberManifest> Psi-Jack: stop what?
17:53 < Psi-Jack> CyberManifest: being an annoying person.
17:54 < CyberManifest> Psi-Jack: I will when you do
17:54 < Psi-Jack> Poll elsewhere.
17:54 < first-order> As for Manjaro's problems with security updates, ask anyone in the Arch chats about it and they'll tell you quite a bit about it.
17:54 < E|nMann> first-order: i think the kernel on mint is from their perspective an upstream thing
17:54 < first-order> And Mint has two upstream providers to go through before it gets to them on their main branch.
17:55 < first-order> Debian Sid and Ubuntu LTS.
17:55 < first-order> LMDE IIRC pulls from Debian Testing.
17:55 < E|nMann> but split into different release
17:55 < CyberManifest> Psi-Jack: it's not a poll, I'm looking for advice, tips and hints, of others that are doing the same: but thanks for playing the pretentious presumptuous assuming game.
17:56  * first-order can't really think of anyone who pulls from Debian Stable aside from maybe BunsenLabs.
17:56 < Psi-Jack> CyberManifest: great. So ask those questions
17:56 < CyberManifest> Psi-Jack: quit trying to dictate
17:56 < E|nMann> first-order: steamos, several "free" distros
17:56 < Psi-Jack> Polling gets you nothing. Asking actual questions you need help with has far more actual potential.
17:57 < first-order> And I don't even know how many people run Mac hardware in here, nor care, in all reality.
17:57 < CyberManifest> <CyberManifest> Psi-Jack: it's not a poll, I'm looking for advice, tips and hints, of others that are doing the same: but thanks for playing the pretentious presumptuous assuming game.
17:58 < Psi-Jack> Uh huh..
17:58 < Psi-Jack> Do you see anyone jumping to answer your futile poll?
17:58 < first-order> Like there's any worthwhile reason to grab a Mac anymore anyways vs. a PC counterpart.
17:58 < triceratux> looks like macs, mint, & webcams arent something obvious https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_on_mac/comments/54n29i/success_report_linux_mint_18_on_macbook_pro/
17:58 < CyberManifest> Psi-Jack: IT'S NOT A POLL
17:58 < Psi-Jack> It is.
17:59 < Psi-Jack> Look up the word.
17:59 < CyberManifest> Dictionary.com defines 'poll' as: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/poll?s=t
17:59 < CyberManifest> Google defines 'poll' as: https://www.google.com/search?q=Define:poll
17:59 < first-order> Eg. look at the Trashcan Mac Pro, hasn't been updated hardware-wise since it came out, no expansion whatsoever, etc.
17:59 < Psi-Jack> Use a proper dictionary.
17:59 < Psi-Jack> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/poll
18:00 < first-order> Looks pretty on a desk, but that's about all it's good for, which goes against the very reasoning for the Mac Pro to exist, really.
18:01 < E|nMann> the hardware is the ticket for the osx software, right?
18:01 < first-order> When the Cheesegrater-style case actually allowed for expansion among other things.
18:01 < first-order> E|nMann, Not necessarily, hence hackintoshes being a thing.
18:02 < triceratux> "Each MacBook revision introduces some new issue. For example the webcam recently switched from being usb attached to being attached to the PCI bus and Linux doesn't have drivers yet." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8904362
18:03 < CyberManifest> Psi-Jack: there you go again with your futile Dictating
18:03 < first-order> Kinda stupid for Apple to ditch a case design that actually allowed for upgrades in their flagship product, really.
18:03 < Psi-Jack> Correcting you is dictating? You should look up that word too.
18:03 < first-order> And then not touch it for years on end.
18:04 < CyberManifest> triceratux: that wasn't recent that was over 3 years go
18:04 < avu> CyberManifest: you might not agree with the way Psi-Jack communicates or the terms they are using but it's a simple fact that when asking for help on IRC, your chances of success are higher if you ask your real question(s) directly without precursors like "does anyone use.." or "is someone here?"
18:04 < CyberManifest> triceratux: I should know because this one is PCI Express, and it's an early 2015
18:04 < first-order> Five generations have gone by since the thing came out, and it was still stuck on Ivy Bridge basically the whole time.
18:04 < triceratux> CyberManifest: thats not a long time in linux circles, especially when mint only releases every 2 years
18:05 < CyberManifest> avu: I'm aware of that, but I was trying to narrow down my communications channel, because others simply won't be interested or care
18:05 < Psi-Jack> CyberManifest: You might also find this quite helpful as well: http://rurounijones.github.io/blog/2009/03/17/how-to-ask-for-help-on-irc/
18:05 < avu> CyberManifest: yes, I am aware of what you were trying to do, I'm trying to tell you it's a bad idea. As was Psi-Jack.
18:05 < CyberManifest> triceratux: mint is only one distro, this is a Linux issue, due to it affecting all distros
18:06 < CyberManifest> Psi-Jack: my poll doesn't apply to you evidently
18:07 < avu> CyberManifest: I for one never answer those types of questions in the affirmative even if they apply to me as I don't want to be drawn into some kind of supporter role. I rather wait for the actual question to see if I'm actually qualified / interested to engage
18:07 < Psi-Jack> One would never know, until they actually ask a real genuine question, not a polling question.
18:07 < CyberManifest> avu: so you know that I was simply asking people that had actual experience respond to me to further help my efforts and endevours?
18:07 < triceratux> CyberManifest: its just unfortunate that as you start hunting for a driver that apples approach to the hardware has been changing as recently as 3 years ago. that in itself could mean the linux driver is not forthcoming
18:07 < avu> CyberManifest: Yes. And I'm still trying to tell you that that approach is flawed.
18:08 < Psi-Jack> avu: Heh, we both are. :)
18:08 < avu> Although why the heck I'm bothering at this point I'm not sure. :)
18:08 < Psi-Jack> heh
18:08 < Girtablulu> Saint maybe?
18:08 < CyberManifest> triceratux: well currently I've encountered a reverse engineered driver, but it compiled on older Linux kernels but now not modern ones
18:09 < CyberManifest> avu: one mans flaw is another mans solution
18:09 < Psi-Jack> CyberManifest: In general, people give maybe one to three chances for someone to ask a coherent question before they move on to help someone actually coherenent. You've already vastly exceeded that, and went so far as to be rude towards others on top of it.
18:09 < CyberManifest> Psi-Jack: so move on
18:09 < Psi-Jack> And there he continues.
18:10 < Psi-Jack> Good luck.
18:10 < CyberManifest> Thanks
18:10 < CyberManifest> :)
18:10 < avu> CyberManifest: I do use Linux on a MacBook 2015 BTW, have been for years.
18:11 < CyberManifest> avu: does everything work on it?
18:11 < Hych> how can I find the first usage of a term?
18:11 < Hych> how can this be made possible?
18:11 < CyberManifest> avu: I mean pretty standard?
18:11 < avu> CyberManifest: I'm no longer interested in talking to you :)
18:11 < Hych> e.g: how can I know when was the word "gigiko" first used?
18:11 < Hych> talk to me then, avu, im sure you'll find in me a worthy partner
18:11 < CyberManifest> avu: ok, ok, thanks
18:11 < Hych> most of our discussion shall consist in how to find the first usage of a term
18:11 < dgurney> I've used linux on macbooks before. unfortunately, all of them had problematic broadcom wifi cards :/
18:12 < CyberManifest> so people try to troll with lies now
18:12 < Hych> yep CyberManifest trolls are the pride of internet
18:12 < CyberManifest> dgurney: evidentally it's gotten better cause my wifi is working
18:12 < Hych> a cyberworld without trolls seems to be lacking in everything
18:13 < dgurney> CyberManifest, yeah I've heard
18:13 < Psi-Jack> Blame every problem upon others. Yes, this seems fair. :p
18:15 < triceratux> CyberManifest: yep its going to be a hack & it sounds like yer already ahead of most folks here https://askubuntu.com/questions/990218/camera-not-working-on-macbook-pro
18:15 < CyberManifest> dgurney: and my WiFi is broadcom; I think my other laptop is too and the wifi on it works there too; I heard some sorta mix up with broadcom drivers and Ubuntu and by extension it's derivatives, but I'm not sure what that's about, as Linux Mint is a derivative and it seems to work well enough; although admitatedly the kernel modual didn't I had to use the bcwm installer
18:15 < Psi-Jack> Heh. That's simply Broadcom in general. :p
18:16 < CyberManifest> Psi-Jack: loves his blankets
18:16 < Psi-Jack> I love my facts, even generalized.
18:16 < CyberManifest> ¯¥_(ツ)_/¯
18:16 < dgurney> yes, it's definitely hit-and-miss with Broadcom under Linux
18:17 < dgurney> even on Windows they can be a bit problematic
18:17 < CyberManifest> dgurney: yeah so it seams; are they pretty closed source group?
18:17 < CyberManifest> dgurney: I don't do Windows
18:18 < Psi-Jack> And too, more often than not, and mostly because of Broadcom's problematic licensing, you have to download the Broadcom drivers directly from Broadcom. Even for my Bluetooth just to get proper audio quality.
18:18 < CyberManifest> Psi-Jack: Bluetooth audio?
18:18 < dgurney> CyberManifest, even if you don't it's still somewhat relevant to the conversation
18:18 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: did you have to register for a free account & provide them with a zipcode ?
18:18 < Psi-Jack> Bluetooth audio.
18:19 < dgurney> and yes, broadcom isn't a very open-source friendly company
18:19 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Yep.
18:19 < triceratux> lol
18:19 < CyberManifest> dgurney: I can respect that; just not relevant to me; but yeah I could see how it could be helpful to others.
18:20 < CyberManifest> dgurney: so are the aspects of Linux on Apple software dismal at best?
18:20 < CyberManifest> hardware^
18:20 < dgurney> eh, depends on the model really
18:21 < CyberManifest> dgurney: this is an early 2015 years: I guess 3 years is too early to tell
18:21 < triceratux> CyberManifest: linus himself couldnt stop running a certain model of macs. i think rms had to have a word with him
18:21 < CyberManifest> triceratux: I've heard he runs Dells
18:21 < dgurney> CyberManifest, so about the latest I've heard that has decent linux support
18:22 < CyberManifest> dgurney: well it's decent enough here for everything to run but have poor battery life and no webcam
18:22 < CyberManifest> drupol: and the command key not functioning like a typical mac
18:23 < CyberManifest> dgurney: ^ sorry drupol
18:24 < dgurney> CyberManifest: maybe something like TLP could help with battery life
18:24 < Psi-Jack> Still. wondering if there’ll be an actual question...
18:24 < CyberManifest> dgurney: I only get about 4 hours of battery life (tweaked) compared to traditional / typical 10 ~ 12 hours.
18:25 < CyberManifest> dgurney: I have TLP and Power Top configured
18:25 < dgurney> yeah, I've heard similar figures
18:25 < avu> mapping the command key to ctrl works well I think
18:25 < bef848f> join #unity3d
18:25 < dgurney> no
18:25 < Psi-Jack> no thanks
18:26 < CyberManifest> avu: I can swap them, but perhaps distro configs don't allow the command + a(select all), command + x (cut), command + c (copy), command + v (paste)
18:26 < triceratux> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13316992
18:27 < UristMcRM|Tux> join #ue4Linux :)
18:27 < Psi-Jack> no. to you too.
18:27 < Psi-Jack> And advertising == bad. :p
18:27 < avu> CyberManifest: that works fine if Cmd is just Ctrl
18:28 < mkjl> how to write comment on AUR (https://aur.archlinux.org), does anyone know?
18:28 < Psi-Jack> mkjl: #archlinux
18:28 < CyberManifest> avu: yeah, just a lot of work to remap and especially for someone like me who doesn't know what handles the copy, cut, paste, select all procedures
18:29 < CyberManifest> triceratux: very interesting article, going to look over it now.
18:29 < CyberManifest> triceratux: thanks for the link
18:29 < devslash> is anyone familiar with a command line based audio fingerprinting tool to create a sample of an audio file and upload it to a site to try and match the artist/album/song ?
18:30 < triceratux> CyberManifest: the original article is gone but it was apparently nonsense compared to what the hackerz have to say about it :)
18:30 < avu> CyberManifest: it's one setting in one place to have Cmd be Ctrl
18:30 < mkjl> Psi-Jack, on #archlinux they don't like to answer questions which aren't censored to their liking
18:30 < avu> CyberManifest: why would you need to know what handles copy&paste for that?
18:31 < Psi-Jack> mkjl: bull
18:31 < CyberManifest> avu: I already switched that, just made ctrl open my menu and command + a, x, c, v didn't work
18:31 < avu> CyberManifest: then you did it wrong
18:32 < FreeFull> mkjl: Make an account, log in, and there will be a comment box on the page for the AUR package you want to comment for
18:32 < FreeFull> It'll say "Add Comment"
18:32 < CyberManifest> avu: because I want command + a to select all, command + x to cut, command + c to copy, and command + v to paste, like on typical mac text handling
18:32 < avu> CyberManifest: yes, you get that for free if you map cmd to ctrl...
18:32 < CyberManifest> avu, no, I've done it
18:33 < CyberManifest> avu: didn't work
18:33 < avu> CyberManifest: then, again, you did it wrong
18:33 < Psi-Jack> Hehe. Would've thought you'd actually have to have an account to comment? Hehe
18:33 < CyberManifest> avu: it just made my CTRL key open my mint menu and ignored anything Command did
18:33 < CyberManifest> avu: then the instructions were wrong
18:33 < avu> CyberManifest: what did you use to switch the keys?
18:34 < CyberManifest> avu: hold up and I'll dig it out, brb
18:34 < CyberManifest> avu: https://askubuntu.com/questions/131900/how-do-i-switch-the-command-key-and-control-key-on-a-macbook-pro
18:35 < avu> CyberManifest: I asked you what you used and you link me some SO question with at least 3 conflicting answers? 8)
18:36 < CyberManifest> avu: I used .Xmodmap
18:36 < CyberManifest> avu:  I used the answer that was checked
18:37 < avu> CyberManifest: the answer given by the guy who asked the question and who "checked" it
18:37 < avu> CyberManifest: read a bit more
18:39 < CyberManifest> avu: your vagueness isn't helpful to me
18:39 < avu> CyberManifest: that's funny coming from you :D
18:39 < CyberManifest> avu: glad to entertain
18:40  * Girtablulu grabs popcorn
18:43 < Psi-Jack> Lol
18:43 < SatansChariot666> waht
18:43 < CyberManifest> triceratux: that article seemed to compare hardware; I intend to use what I've got and not shell out any money for new hardware; also won't trade seeing how my father shelled out $600 to have this macbook pro fixed for my birthday.
18:45 < CyberManifest> triceratux: so it's pretty much make or break for me
18:45 < triceratux> CyberManifest: cool. just so you know what kind of territory youre in. the original PCs werent designed for linux but it became presentable over time. with macs its even more pronounced. xmodmap was never intended to run on an apple
18:46 < triceratux> theres nothing magical about linux. far from it
18:48 < CyberManifest> triceratux: the PCs weren't designed for linux but linux WAS designed for PCs x86 i386 arch back then, and I've ran a version of debian on an XBOX (original) and so I've seen how things can evolve on proprietary hardware.
18:49 < CyberManifest> triceratux: it's evolved to multiple archs and platforms, MIPS, SPARC, all the way to ARM; embeded and so forth
18:50 < triceratux> its evolved & ready to go. now if there were just enough folks interested to get the drivers written
18:50 < CyberManifest> they can do all that and put linux on an xbox but not make silly webcams work
18:50 < CyberManifest> triceratux: I agree ^
18:55 < Limona> hey guys, i'm trying to configure googleauth on my linux, but i can't get it to work
18:55 < Limona> i want to use openvpn with googleauth
18:55 < ayecee> what happens when you try
18:55 < Limona> nothing, i assume it writes to pam.d
18:56 < ayecee> not what doesn't happen. what happens.
18:56 < Limona> https://medium.com/we-have-all-been-there/using-google-authenticator-mfa-with-openvpn-on-ubuntu-16-04-774e4acc2852
18:56 < CyberManifest> triceratux: I think the nature of the beast is the ever changing hardware scape; that and the fact that most standards have a licensing scheme that Linux refuses to adhere to because it's against it's very nature; so Linux gets walled against the standards cause it doesn't pay for the licensing. And maybe that's where linux is messing up in trying to break through that wall or go around it or whatever instead of
18:56 < CyberManifest> building it's own standard, it's own arch; and directing and targeting people twords that instead of targeting and saying things like "You can run linux on your Mac, or you can replace Windows with Linux"
18:56 < Limona> this si the guide i'm following
18:56 < Limona> ayecee i'm lost i don't know what to do, so nothing actually happens just yet
18:56 < Limona> and this guide sucks :/
18:56 < ayecee> Limona: well what have you tried
18:57 < Limona> i tried follwing it all the way up to generate_mfa() function.
18:57 < Limona> but i don't know how to do that
18:57 < ayecee> how to do what
18:57 < Limona> or what su -c does
18:57 < CyberManifest> triceratux: back to the hardware scape, things become obsolete too quickly to merit any interest in writing support for it.
18:57 < Limona> whatever it says i have to do lol
18:57 < ayecee> what does it say you have to do
18:57 < Limona> There we will create a system user with no no login permissions, prompt a password request to it and generate the Google Authenticator token by running:
18:57 < Limona> uh
18:58 < Limona> https://joepaetzel.com/2014/05/20/enable-multi-factor-authentication-for-openvpn/
18:58 < Limona> i think this guide is better
18:58 < Limona> you know
18:58 < Limona> i think i'll go to sleep
18:58 < Limona> i can't think at all
18:58 < ayecee> ok
19:02 < triceratux> CyberManifest: ironically, thats exactly what chromeos & android are. when google gets involved with linux thats exactly what they do. & theyre forced to leave "linux" itself behind. aside from supercomputers & servers, linux may have little future other than as a springboard for other OSes
19:02 < CyberManifest> triceratux: basically it's like Linux is trying to poach other's standards and archs because they don't have one of their own; and that can be this never ending endless battle with hardware manufactures and standards orginizations etc. There needs to be this stictly Linux Open Standards and Arch and Linux needs to move away from running on everything else; Stop trying to be the everything at once type.
19:02 < ayecee> if only there were some central organization that dictated linux development.
19:02 < CyberManifest> triceratux: but Google and ChromeOS are pretty closed and propritary
19:04 < CyberManifest> triceratux: Google makes it's own in house stuff and layers it on top of Open Source and then Closes everything but the open source
19:04 < CyberManifest> triceratux: so in essences Google is locked down
19:06 < CyberManifest> POSIX I guess was as close to a standard as Linux really got, but it's so dated and I don't know weather or not there are licensing fees/issue or not.
19:07 < pingfloyd> gpl3 would have prevented google from doing that
19:10 < cousteau> how do I kill the process that is using most RAM?  Is that what Alt-SysRq-F does?
19:11 < ananke> cousteau: kill
19:11 < cousteau> how do I kill the process that is using so much RAM I can't even open a terminal because my computer's pretty much frozen?
19:11 < ananke> cousteau: you don't. all you can do is hope that kernel OOM will take care of it
19:12 < cousteau> doesn't Alt-SysRq-F trigger the OOM?
19:12 < section1> if its a memory problem
19:12 < ananke> probably it isn't
19:12 < ananke> cousteau: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key
19:13 < Brainspackle> mkfs.ext4 /dev/sda1 will fix it
19:13 < cousteau> well... I had Firefox eating all the RAM even after closing it; the situation was so bad I had the bright idea of doing Alt-SysRq-F
19:13 < cousteau> and it didn't die, but at least my PC magically responded
19:13 < triceratux> cousteau: if it goes on so long that the fan is being audibly stressed i hit alt-sysrq-b
19:13 < Brainspackle> (kidding don't do that)
19:13 < cousteau> Brainspackle, huehuehue
19:14 < cousteau> triceratux, without a previous RSEISU ?
19:15 < cousteau> ok so apparently I did remember correctly; Alt-SysRq-F calls oom_kill, which kills a process to alleviate an out-of-memory (OOM) condition condition
19:15 < fire2199> is there a way to suppress all output of "gpg2 -d my_file.gpg" but the decrypted content of the gpg file?
19:15 < section1> sure it was swapping oout.
19:16 < triceratux> cousteau: yep but im pretty reckless. i run live & everything meaningful is synced. if either memory or cpu compromises the system i basically reboot right away
19:16 < cousteau> after it, I got a line in dmesg that says   [27513.268297] Out of memory: kill process 15551 (Shutdow~minator) score 2181246 or a child   [27513.268304] Killed process 15551 (Shutdow~minator) vsz:4362492kB, anon-rss:1243336kB, file-rss:20kB
19:17 < tpanarch1st> hi, I appreciate you are Linux but could I ask a question in relation to Excel please because many of you are very competent mathematicians and i'm stuck for anywhere else to go - thought i'd ask as it is off topic
19:17 < E|nMann> haha
19:17 < koala_man> phrase it in terms of penguins
19:18 < cousteau> try the google
19:18 < Brainspackle> and this is why pregnant woman shouldn't drink
19:18 < cousteau> (at least you could've asked in #libreoffice, where they at least have a chance to know how to do it for Calc)
19:18 < searedvandal> tpanarch1st, ##math
19:19 < Gringonar> Hi guy
19:19 < Brainspackle> don't assume our gender
19:19 < Gringonar> I got one step further again lol, but how can i use makepkg in Arch?
19:19 < SatansChariot666> hey gaize
19:19 < section1> im a apache chopper
19:19 < SatansChariot666> im here too
19:20 < SatansChariot666> :>
19:20 < searedvandal> Gringonar, https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Makepkg
19:20 < SatansChariot666> pkg as in .deb?
19:21 < triceratux> https://www.archlinux.org/pacman/makepkg.8.html
19:21 < cousteau> section1, are you licensed under the Apache Public License?
19:21 < searedvandal> two very good sources to learn makepkg
19:21 < section1> maybe cousteau maybe...
19:22 < Gringonar> i keep getting "chmod: changing permissions of '/mnt/usb/build/git/app/build': Operation not permitted
19:22 < SatansChariot666> am i 2 stupid to be in here
19:22 < cousteau> ok, so anybody could help me interpret this dmesg line?   Out of memory: kill process 15551 (Shutdow~minator) score 2181246 or a child
19:22 < Gringonar> and when i run it as root it wont allow me cause it may break stuff
19:22 < pingfloyd> cousteau: oom killer
19:23 < Gringonar> @=@
19:23 < pingfloyd> cousteau: you're running out of virtual memory
19:23 < cousteau> does it mean "Since the OOM killer was triggered (manually by you and without knowing what the hell you were doing), I killed process 15551, which was named 'Shutdow<some long name>minator'"
19:23 < section1> Gringonar, what fs ?
19:23 < Gringonar> fat32
19:23 < pingfloyd> cousteau: do you have swap?
19:24 < strixdio> remmina has been working for me today, now when I try to connect to a rdp server, it just has a black screen and "reconnection attempt in progress" and goes from 0 to 1 - any thoughts?
19:24 < cousteau> or did I misinterpret something?  (does the ~ mean "let me shorten the name", or is it literally called Shutdow~minator?)
19:24 < section1> Gringonar, don't support  linux perms...
19:24 < cousteau> pingfloyd, I think so, yes... but most likely very slow, this is a very old PC
19:24 < Gringonar> i can see the PKGBUILD thing just fine
19:24 < Gringonar> less PKGBUILD seems ok too
19:24 < tpanarch1st> thanks searedvandal
19:25 < Gringonar> well as far as i can tell lol
19:26 < searedvandal> try to build in /tmp or make a build folder in ~ or something
19:26 < Gringonar> so i have to move it to a fs that supports permissions?
19:26 < Gringonar> ok ty
19:28 < pepermuntjes> hey
19:28 < storge> i'm diggin my kernel autobuilder. i type 'chkrnl' and it queries kernel.org for latest stable, prompts me if i want to install it, gets it, untars it, and goes through all my make steps, installs it, runs update-grub.
19:29 < pepermuntjes> What is a good webbased app to access SSH? I am on a connection that doesn't allow putty, etc, but it does allow all websites
19:29 < pepermuntjes> i need somehow to create website a shell on it
19:29 < Psi-Jack> pepermuntjes: Are you even authorized?
19:29 < degenerate> Do you guys have any suggestions for remote management of a server (for cases where sshd is dead, etc).  To be fair these are just computers not real server motherboards.  So what are my options? KVM over IP?
19:29 < Psi-Jack> Sounds like not.
19:30 < pepermuntjes> Psi-Jack, i'm authorized to access any website i want.
19:30 < Psi-Jack> degenerate: IPMIv2, iDRAC
19:30 < pepermuntjes> If i access a website that serves as a portal to a remote shell, that would be fine
19:30 < Psi-Jack> pepermuntjes: Yet, port 22 outbound is blocked, so you are obviously not authorized to do /that/.
19:30 < storge> pepermuntjes: he's asking are you authorized for ssh; if they block it, sounds like not
19:31 < pepermuntjes> I don't want to ssh from the box itself. I need to go to a website, that serves a shell to my home machine.
19:31 < storge> ooh
19:31 < Psi-Jack> Talk to your administrator.
19:31 < storge> surely they can craft a rule for you
19:31 < degenerate> Psi-Jack is there anything for AMD computers?
19:31 < pepermuntjes> Psi-Jack, not planning on doing so
19:32 < Psi-Jack> pepermuntjes: Then you are not authorized.
19:32 < Psi-Jack> degenerate: Natively? No.
19:32 < pepermuntjes> Psi-Jack, you don't read what i write. I am authorized to visit any website i want
19:32 < Psi-Jack> Maybe... And I stress maybe.. With an Epyc or similar workstation caliber system.
19:32 < Psi-Jack> pepermuntjes: I read you just fine.
19:32 < Psi-Jack> Talk to your administrator.
19:32 < Guest396> alpine docker image doesnt come with sudo. Trying to figure out the right order to do things: install sudo-->make new user-->USER mynew user-->sudo everythingelse  ?
19:32 < pepermuntjes> i can access my home server with cockpit for example, but thats a bit slow
19:33 < pepermuntjes> so i need a faster alternative
19:33 < esselfe>  /quit
19:33 < Guest396> lol you're fired ^
19:33  * Psi-Jack calls pepermuntjes's boss. ;)
19:33 < Guest396> fired you before you could quit ;P
19:34 < Guest396> hey Psi-Jack how do you do commented responses?
19:34 < tpanarch1st> ah not an appropriate channel mehhh
19:34 < storge> hey boss pepermuntjes is willfully asking in irc how to circumvent organizational security protocols
19:34 < pepermuntjes> lol
19:34 < BCMM> Guest396: /me does a thing
19:35 < pepermuntjes> i am not doing that
19:35 < Psi-Jack> pepermuntjes: That is /exactly/ what you are asking to do.
19:35 < storge> pepermuntjes: but truly, what do administrators know anyway, am i right?
19:35 < pepermuntjes> psi-jack: you don't seem to understand,  i am looking for something faster then cockpit or my digital ocean remote shell.
19:35 < Psi-Jack> I... Don't care.
19:36 < storge> pepermuntjes: the point is, your organization disables ssh for some strange reason that makes sense to them, but you're trying to find a way around it
19:36 < Psi-Jack> Not about to help you directly circumvent whatever authority your environment's imposed upon restrictions, just because.
19:36 < storge> :)
19:36 < storge> oh i'd help you do it. for jesus.
19:37 < storge> are you a god fearing man?
19:37  * storge rubs his chin proudly
19:37 < pepermuntjes> storge, no i am not. It disallow from the machine itself, but it doesn't disallow visiting a website where you enter a shell on a remote system, and use that remote system to ssh to other remote systems.
19:37  * Psi-Jack rolls his eyes.
19:37 < storge> pepermuntjes: technicalities are fun, i agree
19:38 < storge> Psi-Jack: have a good one ;)
19:38  * Guest396 does a thing?
19:38 < Guest396> oh nice nice
19:38 < Guest396> i always ask how to do that but get ignored
19:38 < Psi-Jack> Gee... I wonder why...
19:39  * triceratux ignores Guest396 
19:39 < BCMM> Guest396: #freenode might be more responsive to "how to IRC" questions
19:39 < pepermuntjes> huge difference between "Shell on client machine itself connecting to outside boxes", and "visiting a website that enables me to access a remote shell, like cockpit".
19:39 < pepermuntjes> cockpit is allowed just fine
19:39 < pepermuntjes> i just need a faster alternative
19:39  * Guest396 throws his hurt feelings at triceratux 
19:39 < Psi-Jack> And usually more responsive to people not using a Guest* nick, especially one obviously specifically manually set.
19:39  * triceratux ducks adroitly because he doesnt really use /ignore ;)
19:40 < BCMM> Psi-Jack: huh well spotted
19:40 < Guest396> Psi-Jack, well i have a nickname, but i get disconnected soo often. I actually have my vpn on now cuz its somehow more stable that way
19:40 < Guest396> i get shit like: so and so username is in use
19:40 < Guest396> i try to change again, cant change username while banned on channel
19:40 < Psi-Jack> Please use Standard English while here. "cuz" is not standard english. Also, kindly mind your language.
19:41 < Guest396> goytta restart hexcgat, ok
19:41 < prussian> pepermuntjes: if they allow 443 https://github.com/yrutschle/sslh
19:41 < Guest396> its just a royal pain to bother with always changing it to my username
19:41 < triceratux> Guest396: you have to exit that channel long enough to clear up your nickname mess after a reconnection. its a ##linux thing
19:41 < cousteau> Guest396, afaik you can tell nickserv not to be greedy with your nick
19:41 < BCMM> Guest396: /msg nickserv help ghost
19:42 < Guest396> i found something online that ghosts me or somthing
19:42 < Guest396> there it is^
19:42 < Psi-Jack> Gue<tab> -- Notice how many matches there are? Which is more of a pain? People wanting to actually respond to you, or you fixing your nickname issues?
19:42 < Guest396> oh gee never though of that :P
19:42 < pepermuntjes> thank you prussian
19:43 < BCMM> if people don't have clients that prioritise recently-active nicks they've themselves to blame
19:43 < prussian> ya. it multiplexes a bunch of stuff other than ssh/https as well, which is cool
19:43 < Psi-Jack> prussian: haproxy can do that too. :p
19:43 < Psi-Jack> But again, circumventing. :p
19:43 < prussian> i wouldn't know
19:43 < prussian> i thought haproxy was web and raw tcp only.
19:44 < BCMM> Psi-Jack: i get that you don't want to help, but you could at least not be constantly obstructive when other people are
19:44 < Guest396> BCMM, its not that, it seems it goes through my nickname, then nickname_ then nickname__ quickly
19:44 < prussian> cool if you can configure some magic number to appropriate backend though
19:45 < pepermuntjes> if i visit a internet bar, where they only allow you to access websites, and you can't install a putty, how the HECK is it circumventing anything if i enter a URL in the browser, and using that url access my own home server.
19:45 < BCMM> Psi-Jack: there are organisations where the response to something like this will be "you did *what* without asking IT?", and there are organisations where the response will be more like "you fixed it without taking up IT resources? nice work". it's up to pepermuntjes to judge which environment he's in, not you
19:46 < Psi-Jack> When someone openly refuses to talk to admins, it's pretty obvious to me. I stand by my bullishness on the matter.
19:46 < BCMM> it's worth reminding people to actually think about these things, but i don't think it's reasonable to carry on berating them after that
19:46 < pepermuntjes> i also visit my email from the browser in the internet cafe, because i'm not allowed to install thunderbird.
19:46 < cousteau> pepermuntjes, isn't thunderbird portable a thing?
19:47 < cousteau> ...then again, not sure it'd help
19:47 < BCMM> cousteau: any half-sane internet cafe is going to at least try to stop executables running from USB sticks
19:47 < cousteau> yeah a browser + webmail is how I'd access my mail on a public PC
19:47 < pepermuntjes> BCMM, stop using webmail, it's circumeventing!
19:47 < pepermuntjes> :o
19:47 < pepermuntjes> i dont see any difference
19:48 < cousteau> BCMM, I'd think it'd be enough to prevent autorun.inf from executing
19:48 < prussian> Same
19:48  * cousteau has an autorun.inf directory on most, if not all of his USB sticks
19:48 < prussian> If they really don't want it, they'd have you use their certs and mitm all https web access honestly
19:49 < cousteau> and for some reason that prevented the file browser from auto-opening the drive on old Windowses
19:49 < BCMM> Psi-Jack: as i said, i fully understand why you're not helping him. however, unless you think a channel rules is being broken, i think you're crossing a line by trying to stop other people helping.
19:50 < Psi-Jack> I'm not /trying/ to stop others. Note about the mention of haproxy.
19:51 < pepermuntjes> Psi-Jack, i'm not trying to circumvent jack, the internet bar allows to visit the terminals on sites like digital ocean, aws, cockpit, etc. Whats so terrible if want to install something like that on my webserver?
19:51 < Psi-Jack> Funny, too, DigitalOcean has a console thingy, too.
19:52 < pepermuntjes> yeah i know, and i use that
19:52 < pepermuntjes> but it's a bit slow, just like cockpit
19:52 < Psi-Jack> Get a laptop, hook up to the wifi, with your own computer? Solves so many problems. :p
19:53 < BCMM> wait what? it's *his* server, and some internet cafe client?
19:53 < BCMM> i thought you were complaining about him circumventing controls on the server side...
19:54 < Psi-Jack> They block port 22 outbound, according to him.
19:54 < Psi-Jack> He said nothing about putty until after he randomly tossed in the internet cafe stuff. :)
19:54 < Psi-Jack> Aka: he's changing stories.
19:54 < pepermuntjes> they also block port 443 outbound, but i'm still alowed to access the webmail hosted on my own server in a browser
19:55 < Psi-Jack> Block outbound 443? Ummmm...
19:55 < pepermuntjes> ehm
19:55 < pepermuntjes> the smtp port
19:55 < pepermuntjes> 465
19:55 < Psi-Jack> 25, 465, 587 actually. :p
19:55 < koala_man> pepermuntjes: totally. I used to have a ssh applet kludged to do HTTP connection tunneling over port 80. Never found a public computer that blocked it
19:55 < pepermuntjes> Psi-Jack, if you say i'm chaining stories proof it
19:58 < pepermuntjes> i have found shellinabox, but it doesn'nt seem to be maintained anymore
19:59 < Gringonar> i copied the PKGBUILD to home but "makepkg -s" still gives permission errors
20:00 < Psi-Jack> Gringonar: #archlinux
20:01 < pingfloyd> what do you mean they block 443.  That's https
20:01 < Psi-Jack> Hehe
20:01 < pepermuntjes> i ment the ports Psi-Jack  told
20:01 < BCMM> pingfloyd: he meant 465 i think
20:01 < pingfloyd> so have your sshd listen on port 443
20:02 < pepermuntjes> now i think Psi-Jack is just trolling, he perfectly knows what stuff like cockpit and digital ocean is.
20:02 < pepermuntjes> and knows that is legit and not circumventing anything
20:02 < Gringonar> is makepkg arch specific?
20:02 < notmike> No
20:03 < pepermuntjes> pingfloyd, yeah, but i only have access to the browser
20:03 < Psi-Jack> Gringonar: technically no. But it was made by the arch devs.
20:03 < Gringonar> ok
20:04 < Psi-Jack> Granted if you're not using arch that's a different story.
20:04 < pepermuntjes> I'm looking for something like https://shellngn.com/  , but then hosted on my own server.
20:04 < BCMM> Gringonar: you're not, like, offtopic for mentioning it here. it's just that arch folk are more likely to know the answers you need.
20:05 < notmike> Is pacstrap the doorway to salvation? Some experts say yes..
20:05 < BCMM> pepermuntjes: have you looked at this one? https://github.com/paradoxxxzero/butterfly
20:05 < Psi-Jack> If he's using Manjaro, SwagArch, Antergos, Anarchy, or any thing not Archlinux though... He will be escorted out.
20:05 < RayTracer> pepermuntjes: guacamole maybe
20:05 < BCMM> downside is kind of new and probably not had as much attention from security researchers as some other stuff
20:06 < RayTracer> pepermuntjes: https://guacamole.apache.org/
20:06 < Psi-Jack> BCMM: also uses websockets.
20:07 < mkjl> FreeFull, thanks, your hint was useful, unlike Psi-Jack's who's more a roadblock
20:07 < pepermuntjes> BCMM, RayTracer, thank you, exactly something like that i was looking for :)
20:08 < pepermuntjes> guacamole looks very interesting
20:08 < BCMM> RayTracer: ooh, interesting. didn't realise that did ssh natively (as opposed to sloooow xterm over vnc or something)
20:11 < supera_vaticano> hey whats the best linux for laptop
20:11 < pepermuntjes> fedora
20:11 < supera_vaticano> but what about ubuntu
20:11 < Psi-Jack> supera_vaticano: "best" is subjective, and only YOU can answer that.
20:12 < supera_vaticano> well i'd like to know opinions of experts
20:12 < pepermuntjes> supera_vaticano, Best would to try ubuntu for a week, and fedora for two weeks.
20:12 < Psi-Jack> supera_vaticano: Nobody here knows anything about your laptop, and what would specifically work best to fit exactly YOUR hardware and YOUR specific personal needs and use cases.
20:13 < Psi-Jack> Seriously.. "best" questions are not useful. :0
20:13 < BCMM> supera_vaticano: all i think i can say *objectively* is "use a mainstream distro"
20:13 < supera_vaticano> well how about appropriate
20:13 < pepermuntjes> supera_vaticano, it's mostly up to personal preferences, but for laptops i would stick to ubuntu 18.04 or fedora
20:13 < Psi-Jack> supera_vaticano: Solus, Fedora, Debian.
20:13 < supera_vaticano> i have a core i3 6gb ram hp
20:13 < supera_vaticano> and i have to install over wireless
20:14 < BCMM> supera_vaticano: there are hundreds of weird and wonderful distros with tiny userbases that you'll never be able to find any support for and which are liable to just disappear one day. so probably don't use one of those.
20:14 < Psi-Jack> Luckilly, the first two of those don't even require internet access to /install/ at all. Debian you can download the DVD, or series of DVDs.
20:15 < supera_vaticano> ok
20:15 < supera_vaticano> i have only 4gb flash drive
20:15 < triceratux> supera_vaticano: any of the xubuntu lts clones either 16.04 or 18.04. that includes voyager, mintxfce, lite, mx-17, xubuntu-core &c.
20:16 < supera_vaticano> isn't xfce unmaintained
20:16 < Psi-Jack> No.
20:16 < supera_vaticano> ok thanks
20:16 < Psi-Jack> But most of those distros triceratux just mentioned will most likely die in the next ~1~4 years.
20:17 < supera_vaticano> whys that
20:17 < BCMM> supera_vaticano: assuming your wireless works with linux, you shouldn't have to do an offline install. there's an unofficial version of the debian install CD including non-free firmware to make this sort of thing easier https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/
20:17 < Psi-Jack> Because they're not mainstream supported forks.
20:17 < supera_vaticano> xubuntu is though right
20:17 < triceratux> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Xfce-4.14-GTK3-Port-2
20:17 < Psi-Jack> He said xubuntu-core, not xubuntu. :p
20:18 < triceratux> xubuntu itself is fine tho
20:18 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: "though"
20:18 < triceratux> +ugh
20:18  * Psi-Jack will get you every time. :p
20:18 < ldlework> Psi-Jack: how did your nixos review go
20:18 < supera_vaticano> lol
20:19 < Psi-Jack> ldlework: Still working on it. Not going to be able to review this as fast as I did Solus. :)
20:19 < ldlework> Psi-Jack: gotta stop an learn Nixlang first?
20:19 < Psi-Jack> ldlework: That too.
20:19 < ldlework> that took me a few weeks :3
20:19 < ldlework> i just didn't get it
20:19 < ldlework> but i'm pretty dumb so
20:19  * jim sends his trained army of ducks after Psi-Jack!
20:20 < triceratux> supera_vaticano: the mint 19 xfce version came out a couple weeks ago. its based on ubuntu 18.04 & theres a handful of folks in here happily running it on laptops already
20:20 < Psi-Jack> I get it. I've already used some automation to install a PostgreSQL 10.3 server and provision a database in it.
20:20 < supera_vaticano> oh happily huh
20:20  * Psi-Jack throws out a Psiduck pokemon to engage the army of ducks.
20:20 < Psi-Jack> :)
20:20 < ldlework> Psi-Jack: sure the difficulty comes when trying to write your own options
20:21 < jim> didn't know they made it to 10 until yesterday
20:21 < Psi-Jack> heh
20:21 < Psi-Jack> 11 beta's already out.
20:21 < supera_vaticano> yall must be insiders with all this confidence about the future
20:22 < jim> a lot of us are very well trained
20:22 < Psi-Jack> Been around the block enough times.
20:23 < triceratux> you cant make this stuff up. all you can do is map it out & see it coming
20:23 < supera_vaticano> whoa that's deep
20:23 < jim> one of the gucks goes "mmmm mmm! food! and eats the pokemon card
20:23 < supera_vaticano> voyager seems to be french
20:24 < triceratux> supera_vaticano: theyve eased up on that now. the en locale is on the current iso
20:25 < Psi-Jack> Solus isn't "mainstream", per-se, not like Fedora and Debian are, as those have been around a much longer time. However, it's in the top 10 on distro watch and a completely unique and well supported distribution, supported by monthly donated contributions of nearly $4k/mo from individuals.
20:25 < BCMM> distrowatch isn't market-share, though
20:25 < Psi-Jack> Oh, sorry, nearly $3,000/mo from 787 patrons donating monthly. :)
20:25 < Psi-Jack> <-- me included.
20:25 < BCMM> a high distrowatch ranking is to be expected from fad distros with small but excitable userbases
20:25 < triceratux> supera_vaticano: they were very french at the beginning. theyre also one of the distros that has reimaged for 18.04 (along with lite & mint) proving theyre serious about staying uptodate. zorin for example is biding their time in 16.04
20:26 < SuperSeriousCat> What do the money go into? Hosting it is not 3k/month
20:26 < sauvin> I wonder what it would take for Solus to *become* a mainstream distro. I've been seeing it mentioned a lot lately.
20:26 < Psi-Jack> SuperSeriousCat: The founder does Solus full time. :)
20:27 < SuperSeriousCat> 1 guy do all the work?
20:27 < Psi-Jack> Oh no definitely not.
20:27 < searedvandal> BCMM, how can we measure "popularity" or "market share" of a distro without using distrowatch?
20:27 < supera_vaticano> solus looks promising
20:27 < BCMM> searedvandal: there basically isn't a way
20:27 < Psi-Jack> I contribute my time too, lately. I've recently updated NetworkManager, for example, with patches both upstream to NM itself, and into Solus's NM packages to bring in proper WiFi Hotspot support.
20:28 < searedvandal> number of users in their irc channel?
20:28 < Psi-Jack> ~200?
20:28 < searedvandal> oh, that last one was for BCMM
20:28 < supera_vaticano> i feel like the debian version of voyager would be less bloated
20:28 < SuperSeriousCat> It was a followup to market share :p
20:29 < BCMM> searedvandal: number of users on irc *also* isn't market share, but it *is* a decent proxy for availability of support
20:29 < triceratux> & another 133 in #solus-chat http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/?net=freenode&chat=solus
20:29 < BCMM> or at least a better one than distrowatch ranking
20:29 < sauvin> I've never seen or heard of any reliably means of gauging a distro's relative popularity, or of Linux *itself*.
20:30 < sauvin> s/reliably/reliable/;
20:30 < Psi-Jack> And, $3k/mo could easily be hosting costs, considering Solus does weekly updates, every Friday usually, which requires compiling time of potentially hundreds of software packages. ;)
20:30 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: There isn't. Simply put. :)
20:30 < BCMM> sauvin: we have fairly good estimates for linux itself from UA-harvesting services (but they don't distinguish distros)
20:30 < sauvin> That's kinda where I was going, yeah.
20:30 < triceratux> its as simple as that except on supercomputers where linux the kernel is reliably 100&
20:30 < searedvandal> BCMM, that's true. I don't know of any other way than distrowatch myself, even if it's not a very good source, it's at least a "quick and dirty" way to gauge it
20:30 < BCMM> also fairly good distro stats for, specifically, web servers
20:30 < sauvin> BCMM, and how is that "goodness" evaluated for reliability?
20:31 < Wasp> Psi-Jack, hans_, Sitri: again: `paste <(ls .) <(ls ..)` without the "<(..)" construct
20:31 < SuperSeriousCat> Is Solus viable as a server? Or is it more of a desktop OS?
20:31 < Psi-Jack> Wasp: Again: Make sense.
20:31 < searedvandal> desktop
20:31 < BCMM> sauvin: i'm not saying that those results are accurate. i'm just saying they're a bit better than self-reported data (like, in effect, distrowatch)
20:31 < sauvin> Any distro is (or is potentially) a server. Well... except maybe things like Kali...
20:32 < searedvandal> sauvin, challenge accepted
20:32 < Aph3x-WL> solus isn't
20:32 < BCMM> sauvin: right, but some distros focus on the desktop experience to the point that it's needlessly painful to run as a server
20:32 < sauvin> searedvandal, you try to put a server on Kali, you're going to be playing whack-a-mole trying to secure it.
20:32 < Psi-Jack> BCMM: Which distros? heh
20:32 < Wasp> there was some command to form `<(bla)` into `$(CMD bla)`
20:33 < BCMM> Psi-Jack: i mean i wanna say ubuntu but maybe that's just me because it's actually a really popular server distro
20:33  * sauvin sputters
20:33 < Psi-Jack> Ubuntu wasn't solely designed for desktop use.
20:33 < searedvandal> sauvin, yeah, I know :) I personally don't have any use for Kali, whatsoever.
20:33 < Psi-Jack> Solus, though, is. You won't, for example, see Solus with postfix, but you will see development functional stuff like mariadb, postgres, etc, which can be used as a workstation to do development.
20:34 < searedvandal> Psi-Jack, does Solus have much "server" software available in their repos?
20:34 < searedvandal> oops, looks like you already answered that one
20:34 < ColinBColby> you know how long xbox has had eye tracking? they're bringing it to Linux, a new api
20:34 < Psi-Jack> searedvandal: nginx, mariadb, postgresql, httpd... Just to name a few.
20:34 < searedvandal> eye tracking? sounds scary
20:34  * Psi-Jack watches searedvandal's eyes.
20:35 < BCMM> Psi-Jack: it was *chiefly* designed for that, though. most of their efforts have gone in to a polished and integrated desktop experience, and that's where their strengths lie
20:35 < searedvandal> Psi-Jack, yeah, your previous line explained it well :)
20:35 < Wasp> actually there command works the other way around I've learned: <( bla ) -> $( bla | CMD)
20:35 < triceratux> https://www.reddit.com/r/SolusProject/comments/84v00e/can_the_solus_team_release_a_more_uptodate_iso_or/
20:35 < Psi-Jack> Wasp: I give up. You refuse to make sense.
20:35 < Psi-Jack> Or even so much as explain /WHAT/ you actually want...
20:35 < Wasp> I make sense you just have no clue thats all
20:35 < Wasp> got it in the meantime
20:36  * Psi-Jack rolls his eyes.
20:36 < sauvin> IF he got it, he got it. Some people just don't explain things well.
20:36 < Psi-Jack> "you just have no clue", is where the eyeball rolling was regarding. :p
20:36 < BCMM> Psi-Jack: i *think* it's about redirection in bash? and he knows how to do some rather obscure bashisms, but not how to do plain old basic piping?
20:36 < searedvandal> triceratux, we're still waiting for that 4 release, aren't we?
20:37 < Wasp> BCMM how was taling about bash?
20:37 < BCMM> nevermind
20:37 < triceratux> serafincpd: i definitely am. wouldnt miss it ;)
20:37 < Wasp> who*
20:37 < searedvandal> release may not be the right word. but an updated iso?
20:38 < searedvandal> almost a year since the iso was updated last
20:38 < Psi-Jack> searedvandal: 4 is coming soon. Just like Winter is coming soon. :)
20:39 < searedvandal> Psi-Jack, soon is a nice word. let's you get away with anything ;)
20:39 < triceratux> considering theyre toying with calling themselves a rolling release. i saw a note somewhere that 4 is due at the end of july. but ive only been doing the solus thing for 48hrs so i dont remember where
20:39 < searedvandal> I got it installed, so I'm in no need for an updated iso
20:40 < Psi-Jack> searedvandal: The new Solus-SC, and Budgie stuff I'm excited for. The Raven sidebar will let you control audio per-app. ;)
20:40 < searedvandal> cool
20:40 < Psi-Jack> Of /that/ I am looking forward to.
20:40 < searedvandal> I got all my audio set to 100% and control it with hardware anyway, but nice feature
20:40 < Psi-Jack> As I Use the heck out of the Raven sidebar fly-out. :)
20:41 < Psi-Jack> I switch between 5.1 surround, USB Headset, USB Mixer+USB Headset (recording studio/mixer stuff), and sometimes Bluetooth.
20:42 < searedvandal> the laptop I installed solus on is always hooked up to a usb mixer, never move it around much as it would break my back
20:42 < Psi-Jack> Most of the time I prefer to switch /all/ audio to specific devices, but for the recording studio stuff, I like to specify directly, at the moment. That might change if and when I actually get around to tinkering with JACKD again. If I ever do, again.
20:43 < Psi-Jack> That's a heavy laptop!
20:43 < searedvandal> sure is
20:43 < Psi-Jack> Is it made of Osmium?
20:43 < Cmptr> Okay, so after a Windows update that happened a few months ago, I have not been able to get back into Debian.  The bootload I am assuming is what is frigged since I just get a grub prompt.  I have been able to get into recover mode which is where I am now.  I have mount root as /dev/nvme0n1p6, home as /dev/nvme0n1p7 and when asked to enter the location of boot loader, I enter /dev/nvme0n1 It's saying EFI but
20:43 < Cmptr> I installed in UEFI, but I do know there is some conterversery with the names.  Anywho, I'm currently in recovery mode, what steps do now?
20:43 < searedvandal> it's a lugtop
20:44 < Psi-Jack> searedvandal: Its made of Osmium isn't it?
20:45 < Cmptr> I'm desperate
20:45 < searedvandal> Psi-Jack, probably
20:45 < Psi-Jack> heh
20:53 < bef848f> Is there any IRC cli client that doesnt steal WM's work? I mean, in weechat for instance, I can split it into separate windows, but they are not real WM windows. They are emulated by Weechat inside it's window
20:53 < Psi-Jack> IRC CLI would be absolutely horrible.
20:53 < triceratux> Cmptr: you might want to do some more research & recovery before you try to desquirrel that bootloader https://sourceforge.net/p/boot-repair/home/Home/
20:53 < Psi-Jack> WeeChat is not CLI, either, FYI.
20:54 < Cmptr> Psi-Jack: Yes it is.
20:54 < Psi-Jack> No, it is not.
20:54 < Cmptr> You don't need a UI to run it.
20:54 < Psi-Jack> It has its own UI.
20:54 < Cmptr> You can run it in TTY
20:54 < revel> It's TUI.
20:54 < Psi-Jack> Guess what that makes it?
20:54 < Psi-Jack> Ding ding ding! TUI!
20:55 < bef848f> s/cli/TUI
20:55 < Psi-Jack> CLI would be /horrible/ for IRC. :)
20:55 < revel> It's definitely possible.
20:55 < revel> But why would you.
20:55 < Psi-Jack> Sure, sending a single message. ;)
20:55 < phinxy> ed with IRC itegration
20:55 < revel> I was thinking more like ircii.
20:55 < FreeFull> Writing a program that has control over multiple terminals is trickier than just using one terminal
20:55 < Psi-Jack> ircii is a TUI
20:55 < searedvandal> ii is pretty much as cli as it gets
20:55 < FreeFull> You need some sort of server-client architecture
20:56 < revel> It is?
20:56 < Psi-Jack> Yes it is.
20:56 < searedvandal> https://tools.suckless.org/ii/
20:56 < sauvin> Just imagine trying to IRC strictly with telnet.
20:56 < revel> Oh, maybe I meant just ii.
20:56 < searedvandal> ii is rather sparse
20:57 < Psi-Jack> Never used ii. I don't use suckless software. I don't want to re-write their sucky crap to make it actually good. :)
20:57  * Psi-Jack chuckles.
20:57 < searedvandal> never used it myself either, a bit too spartan for my taste
20:57 < ColinBColby> r u sure you're not simply a shitty programmer?
20:58 < Guest396> differnce between py3-virtualenv and virtualenv ?
20:58 < searedvandal> think their sic irc client is even smaller come to think of it
20:58 < Psi-Jack> It's really easy. /nick newnick
20:58 < revel> Psi-Jack: "newnick :Nickname is already in use."
20:59 < Psi-Jack> revel: The 396 knows what I speak of. :p
20:59 < bef848f> ii looks interesting, but I guess it's TOO minimalist
20:59 < Wixy> in this file /etc/security/limits.conf I have "* hard nofile 131072", and sysctl fs.file-max actually shows that number, so it should work right? why then ulimit -Hn is still 4096 for my user? :(
21:00 < FreeFull> I just use irssi
21:00  * Psi-Jack pets his HexChat <-> ZNC solution.
21:00 < FreeFull> It works for what I need and there isn't a good reason to switch to anything else
21:01 < searedvandal> I currently use weechat and znc
21:01 < Psi-Jack> Soon, I'll even be connected in with Mutter, too.
21:03 < searedvandal> mutter, that's the gnome window manager?
21:03 < Psi-Jack> Heh, not in this case. an iOS IRC client. :)
21:03 < section1> Wixy, do you relogin after change the file?
21:04 < searedvandal> Psi-Jack, oh, fancy :)
21:04  * Psi-Jack chuckles.
21:04 < searedvandal> I like to keep my irc'ing on a regular pc myself
21:04 < searedvandal> never found a good android solution
21:04 < Psi-Jack> searedvandal: Of course, that's preferred, but when I step away from the computer, and I was in conversation, I will hop on my cell or iPad. ;)
21:05 < sauvin> I'd think IRC'ing from a table if you don't have a real keyboard too painful.
21:05 < sauvin> s/table/tablet/;
21:05 < sauvin> It's painful enough WITH a keyboard!
21:05 < searedvandal> in a fast paced conversation, for sure
21:05  * sauvin grumbles
21:05 < Psi-Jack> Well, my tablet has a real keyboard in the case. :)
21:06 < sauvin> I don't mind poking at the screen instead of using a mouse, but I'm a touch typer. Looking at where I'm supposed to put my fingertips is... just... no.
21:06 < Psi-Jack> Though, I'm pissed that Belkin never made the Qode Pro for the iPad Pro. :/
21:07 < tmch2> Hi! Can you take a kernel from one distro and put it into another installation? I did it and it seems to work, but I'm wondering if there can be any problems.
21:07 < sauvin> Psi-Jack, for what reason would any sane Linux person want an ipad?
21:08 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: It's got great software, it's secure, it works, and it works extremely well.
21:08 < sauvin> tmch2, yes, there can be problems. First thought to cross my mind is differences in architecture, and the second has to do with mismatched libc or toolsets.
21:08 < [Sphere]> tmch2: take /lib/modules/* too... it belong to the kernel you taking
21:08 < dviola> ipad? more like ibad
21:09 < dviola> :P
21:09 < Psi-Jack> And. In all the Android tablets and phones I've ever had, scarilly, even the iPad 2nd gen was faster than even the more modern Android tablets.
21:09 < tmch2> Sphere: Will it be stable then?
21:09 < Psi-Jack> And still today, nothing Android even compares to the speed of the Air 2 or iPad Pro.
21:10 < Wixy> <section1> Wixy, do you relogin after change the file?
21:10 < dviola> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSrpNqwBNVY
21:10 < Wixy> I did, I even rebotted
21:10 < lnnb> sup, krynnlord
21:10 < Wixy> I tried the same in two different distributions, same result. user limit won't move
21:10 < [Sphere]> tmch2: I have no idea what stability you looking for... but the modules are compiled with the kernel you taking... you should take them too
21:11 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: scarrily isnt a word, but if it were it would be spelled "scarily" https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/scarily
21:11 < tmch2> sauvin: But wouldn't it had crash immediately if those problems had arised?
21:12 < sauvin> tmch2, not necessarily in the case of mismatched toolsets. A little while down the road, when you try to build something (like a new module), you may run into troubles.
21:12 < Psi-Jack> scarily, indeed.
21:13 < [Sphere]> tmch2: when you compile the kernel... and you issuing "make modules_install" the modules goes to /lib/modules/.
21:13 < sauvin> triceratux, Psi-Jack's English stinks. Get over it. This is IRC.
21:13 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: i just got Solus-3-Budgie.iso to boot on my optiplex metal by dd copying it to a 2G daneelec flashdrive & booting directly from the usb. i call bs on their 64bit BIOS bootloader. theyve been playing too many games & the VMs & UEFI machines dont notice them
21:13 < triceratux> sauvin: in other news, water is wet
21:14 < sauvin> Sure thing, only, I ain't "smallville".
21:14 < timi> hello, how can I install linux on my systemD??
21:14 < sauvin> Well... I AM faster than a speeding building, and am able to leap tall bullets in a single bound...
21:14 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: same flashdrive i used to get Mageia 6.0 up. it had to be looked at really closely to get it to fit into the multiboot liveiso farm
21:15 < [Sphere]> :D
21:15 < section1> Wixy, in debian 8 (im using now) works
21:15 < section1> s/8/9/
21:15 < Wixy> I tried in Ubuntu and AMI Linux, same result
21:15 < Wixy> section1, can you show me what you changed exactly?
21:15 < section1> Wixy, as root or normal user ?
21:16 < section1> same line as you
21:16 < tmch2> Sphere: So, if I copy the modules, will such a system be okay or will it be still broken, but just not so much?
21:16 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: & yeah if it will boot in 2min instead of 2days its really handsome. the network comes online & everything. the runtime system is just great. too bad it doesnt boot or install
21:16 < Wixy> section1, I made the changes as root but I want the limit to increase in a normal user
21:16 < section1> ok
21:17 < Wixy> section1, so ulimit -Hn shows the correct number for you?
21:17 < [Sphere]> tmch2: it shud work better than just taking the kernel
21:17 < section1> check your pam modules...sliuhd have a line similar like this: session    required   pam_limits.so
21:17 < section1> Wixy, yeah
21:17 < [Sphere]> tmch2: as the modules are done with kernel compilation...
21:17 < Wixy> weeeird
21:17 < sauvin> tmch2, let's put it this way: I don't recommend it.
21:18 < Wixy> don't know what is going on
21:18 < [Sphere]> tmch2: what's your board?
21:18 < section1> Wixy, check for example: /etc/pam.d/login  and read the comments about limits.
21:18 < Deknos> does anyone has a script which blocks networkaccess/activity for a given virtualbox machine?
21:19 < sauvin> Deknos, virtualbox itself can block network traffic by simply disconnecting the network.
21:19 < thetux> hey! I've installed openbox window manager. But, it ain't auto executing the /etc/xdg/autostart/*.desktop files during startup even if i've installed python2-xdg
21:20 < Deknos> sauvin, i meant, while the machine is already running
21:20 < tmch2> sauvin: But apart from building new modules, would anything else be wrong? Would I be able to build ordinary programs? What's the recommended solution then? Build a new kernel?
21:20 < Wixy> it just says "Sets up user limits according to /etc/security/limits.conf"
21:21 < section1> Wixy, yes its uncommented ? the line with pam_limits.so.so ?
21:21 < sauvin> tmch2, the answer to your question is too complex to convey easily, and I don't understand all of the possible gotchas.
21:21 < [Sphere]> tmch2: if your hardware is supported just do
21:21 < Wixy> no no, it's not. it's required
21:21 < tmch2> Sphere: You mean the motherboard?
21:21 < [Sphere]> tmch2: yes
21:21 < Wixy> I also tried setting the limits in this file btw, /etc/security/limits.d/limits
21:22 < section1> do you have the file "/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/security/pam_limits.so"
21:24 < [Sphere]> tmch2: If your gpu isn't fully supported which shud be the case :D
21:24 < tmch2> Sphere: The thing is, it's an Intel mini PC, and I was trying to clone an installation from one model to another. It wouldn't boot, so I took a kernel from a live CD and it worked, but I'm not sure if it's stable.
21:25 < [Sphere]> Intel you said?
21:25 < [Sphere]> tell me me the board?
21:26 < [Sphere]> you might have full open source supported hardware :)
21:27 < [Sphere]> it means you can use main stream sources to enjoy nice experience with your device
21:28 < tmch2> Sphere: Just do what? Sorry, I didn't understand. Try to build a new kernel?
21:28 < [Sphere]> tmch2: If you can do that just do this
21:29 < tmch2> Sphere: And if that works, the system won't be broken anymore?
21:30 < [Sphere]> tmch2: your Os might be broken from another place
21:30 < [Sphere]> Kernel and modules are simple things
21:31 < [Sphere]> tmch2: TRY IT
21:31 < jim> [Sphere], did you know your nick was Thelonious Monk's middle name?
21:32 < [Sphere]> tmch2: that's by doing that you learn to make less mistakes
21:33 < [Sphere]> jim: someone did refer to that like an hour ago
21:33 < [Sphere]> jim: in fact it refers to some old movie
21:33 < [Sphere]> jim: Sphere 1998
21:33 < Wixy> section1, you know? I just realized it works, kind of. after reboot I open a terminal and ulimit -Hn would show 4096. but if I do ssh to localhost it shows the correct number
21:33 < tmch2> Sphere: Ok, so it's worth trying. Good to know. How else can the system be broken, though?
21:33 < Wixy> somehow the limit only applies to ssh login (?)
21:33 < section1> Wixy, strange
21:34 < jim> hmm, I don't remember that movie coming out... is it any good?
21:34 < [Sphere]> tmch2: through init system
21:34 < section1> Wixy, how do you login?
21:34 < Wixy> it's my laptop, I just... login
21:34 < section1> Wixy, sure its a pam module mising the line of limits.so
21:34 < section1> but from a terminal and the startx or with login manager?
21:35 < [Sphere]> tmch2: you also might have some files that haven't been cleaned if your experienced a power cut
21:35 < Wixy> login manager
21:35 < [Sphere]> tmch2: So X wont start...
21:35 < [Sphere]> tmch2: till you clean everything as it shud
21:35 < section1> Wixy, ah check if exists a file in /etc/pam.d for that manager.
21:36 < section1> in may case i have the sddm file
21:37 < [Sphere]> tmch2: anyway if it doesn't boot... you shud have some error output
21:37 < [Sphere]> tmch2: and by reading them you gonna fix it
21:38 < tmch2> Sphere: X locks seems like something I can manage. How can init break it?
21:38 < sauvin> [Sphere], if you wouldn't mind: "should" instead of "shud".
21:38 < [Sphere]> sauvin: meh
21:38 < Wixy> it's ubuntu. how do I know what login manager it is? I see there are a couple of files that may be related: unity lightdm-autologin gdm-autologin login etc
21:38 < Wixy> sorry, I never have to deal with these things :)
21:39 < milanos> Hey, I'm planning to do a lfs install. Whats a good package manager to put ontop of LFS?
21:39 < [Sphere]> tmch2: no idea some broken binaries/config...
21:40 < Psi-Jack> milanos: that's documented.
21:40 < revel> milanos: The one you write yourself, of course.
21:40 < section1> Wixy, don't know about ubuntus default..but if you run ps auxf and check the parent of Xorg...should be the login manager.
21:40 < Wixy> good idea
21:40 < [Sphere]> tmch2: you should have some output about error if there is...
21:41 < SuperSeriousCat> I recmmend using a distro like Gentoo instead, milanos. All the building, none of the testing for stable
21:41 < Wixy> except there's no "xorg", weird
21:41 < milanos> hmm
21:41 < lnnb> milanos: one that will let you specify global configuration options, such as --disable-this-annoying-thing --disable-that-other-prolific-garbage-heap
21:41 < Wixy> never mind, that was my fault
21:42 < triceratux> milanos: look into eopkg, but if that doesnt work go with pacman
21:42 < Wixy> it's "gdm", I'm guessing the file I'm looking for is /etc/pam.d/gdm-autologin maybe?
21:42 < dviola> if you are going to use pacman on top of your LFS, why not just go with Arch?
21:42 < Wixy> gdm-autologin   gdm-launch-environment   gdm-password
21:43 < Wixy> should be one of those
21:43 < tmch2> Sphere: Error logs are at least something. With the old kernel it would just freeze at the black screen. So I guess, I'll try to compile it then and if there are errors, I'll know it, but if there aren't, I get a working system. Is that right?
21:43 < section1> Wixy, maybe gdm-launch-environment
21:43 < milanos> eopkg sounds cool, I abhor pacman.
21:44 < Wixy> pam_limits.so is already required in all three
21:44 < section1> Wixy,  hehe ok i give up...!
21:44 < section1> no idea so.
21:44 < Wixy> oh well, at least I have a clue now
21:44 < Wixy> thank you!
21:44 < milanos> SuperSeriousCat: Is gentoo worth it? I want my base system to be compiled but Im fine with binaries being installed for all the others
21:44 < section1> Wixy, yeah no problem.
21:45 < tmch2> Sphere: ..and If it won't compile, I'll just copy the live cd modules and try not to compile any new ones...
21:46 < [Sphere]> tmch2: a very few ppl does
21:46 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: poke ^^ hehe
21:46 < [Sphere]> the kernel is the driver bundle
21:47 < SuperSeriousCat> milanos, I use it on my main system and Docker server. No issues at all unless you count a longer update as a huge issue. If you want to install something strange thats not in official or in an overlay you just create an ebuild for it
21:47 < Psi-Jack> milanos: eopkg is indeed much nicer than pacman.
21:47 < [Sphere]> tmch2: by gathering all the modules from the working kernel I guess everything gonna be okay
21:47 < sauvin> Sphere, not everybody speaks English as a first language in this channel. Myself, for example. Have a heart!
21:47 < [Sphere]> tmch2: I mean You wont have to compile any
21:48 < revel> sauvin: What was your first language then?
21:48 < [Sphere]> sauvin: what do you mean?
21:48 < milanos> SuperSeriousCat: Is it hard to create your own ebuilds?
21:48 < Psi-Jack> French I bet.
21:48 < sauvin> I mean, please try to use more of the kind of English that folks learn in school.
21:48 < milanos> SuperSeriousCat: I've never tired gentoo
21:48 < [Sphere]> sauvin: I'm french
21:49 < [Sphere]> with portuguese origins
21:49  * triceratux thought the answer these days was always russian
21:49 < sauvin> Yeah, and I've *seen* what you Frogs do to your language in French language channels! It's... execrable!
21:49 < [Sphere]> my ancestor were peasant
21:50 < revel> sauvin: Even if I corrected my teacher on multiple occasions?
21:50 < almostdvs> is there a hierarchy as to how a machine receives its network info?  I have a machine where the /etc/network/interfaces does not match what it boots with
21:50 < SuperSeriousCat> milanos, basically for the simplest ones it is specifying URL for sources and typing in the dependencies. If you are unlucky you got to create an ebuild for them too. Then portage prepare and build for you
21:50 < [Sphere]> sauvin: my interlocutor is okay with how I speak
21:50 < sauvin> revel, those who can, do. Those who can't teach. Your teachers, I'm guessing, can't.
21:51 < sauvin> (I spaced a comma there somewhere)
21:51 < [Sphere]> I don't want to look as a rebel... but you get the mean when I speak?
21:52 < SuperSeriousCat> milanos. Testing it in a VM is easy. Just copy paste commands and search "VMWARE" and enable all them in kernel config and you are good to go in a few hours with a relativly modern PC
21:52 < [Sphere]> it's all matter in a conversation?
21:52 < E|nMann> yep, dark matter
21:52 < [Sphere]> :D
21:52 < [Sphere]> awful
21:53 < sauvin> Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I am personally also challenged by the fact that I'm nearly deaf and can't understand speech. Surely you'll recognise the impact that'll have on the ability to decipher phonetically written English, given that English is a mutt?
21:53 < tmch2> Sphere: So, I can skip any compiling whatsoever and just hope I won't have to compile modules for it, and then I can be sure that the os didn't become broken.
21:54 < [Sphere]> tmch2: nothing is *sure*
21:54 < [Sphere]> tmch2: but you can mitigate...
21:55 < Psi-Jack> English... A mutt? But America standardized English. Hehe
21:55  * sauvin hands Psi-Jack a ghoti
21:56 < lnnb> you all obsessed with language
21:56 < Psi-Jack> Nope. Not in Webster.
21:56 < Psi-Jack> Grins
21:56 < lnnb> unhealthily obsessed
21:56 < [Sphere]> sauvin: I did learn by listening/reading ppl... I'm far away an academic skill with english...
21:57 < sauvin> But... but... but... if you sound it out, it sounds just like fish!
21:57 < sauvin> That would be "people", not "ppl".
21:57 < [Sphere]> ppl is shortcut to people
21:57 < sauvin> Not in here, it isn't.
21:58 < [Sphere]> sauvin: everyone there understand that shortcuat why are you so rude with me?
21:58 < lnnb> i think it's driven by some need to feel superior than others
21:59 <@sauvin> Call it a matter of policy.
21:59 < tmch2> Sphere: So, I guess that means I should try to compile the kernel after all. Or does it?
21:59 < Psi-Jack> lnnb: I'd suggest not poking.
21:59 < lnnb> Psi-Jack: and then what?
22:00 < Psi-Jack> Just a suggestion
22:00 < lnnb> noted, and discarded.
22:01 <@sauvin> Hrm... that @ in front of my nick is making me hungry, and there's no Cinnabon anywhere within driving distance. :sigh:
22:01 < [Sphere]> tmch2: You should try. Intel has many attribution in the kernel for their drivers
22:02 < tmch2> Ok, thank you! At least now I know what to do..
22:04 < darkmeson> it's a good thing this isn't ##history, or someone would've failed today
22:04 < darkmeson> on a more on-topic note, does anyone have snd-intel working on any cherrytrail devices, or do we still have to patch things all to hell?
22:07 < Psi-Jack> Knowing snd-intel...... The latter.
22:07 < Psi-Jack> It's the one thing Intel does not do well. :)
22:07 < Psi-Jack> darkmeson: But, curious, who would've failed history in your thoughts?
22:08 < schangg> Hi
22:09 < schangg> I'm having difficulties compiling the linux kernel, is this the right place for getting help around this ?
22:09 < Psi-Jack> Sure, but why are you compiling it?
22:09 < rypervenche> schangg: Coucou. What distro are you compiling it in and why have you chosen to compile your kernel?
22:09 < lnnb> yes only plebs use distro kernels
22:09 < schangg> because I need an ARM version ov kernel 2.6.35 as part of a revers engineering research
22:10 < Psi-Jack> Reverse engineering of what exactly?
22:10 < darkmeson> it seems as if graphcs, bluetooth, and ,wifi work out of the box as of ubuntu 18.04 and 4.15.0, but pulseaudio hangs and dies without any sign of errors in dmesg
22:10 < schangg> a cooking machine
22:10 < schangg> that I can not get the kernel of the chip
22:11 < schangg> but have been provided the compilation config and modified source code of
22:11 < Psi-Jack> schangg: Have you asked the creator of this machine to give you the kernel source?
22:11 < schangg> Psi-Jack yes indeed
22:11 < lnnb> in 10 minutes we might get around to asking what the problem is
22:11 < Psi-Jack> Oh good! :)
22:11 < schangg> Psi-Jack and that's what I need to compile now
22:11 < lnnb> instead of all the political posturing
22:12 < schangg> the thing is that I've compiled linux kernel several time but last time was maybe 15 years ago and I am stuck with something that is probably trivial but I could not find much help with google
22:12 < Psi-Jack> lnnb: You seem to be here only interested in antagonizing everyone. Do you have any actual Linux subjects to discuss, whether to help someone, or to ask for help?
22:12 < darkmeson> Psi-Jack: Intel's been horrible at everything as of late, and one might even argue they've been horrible for a decade+ thanks to meltdown, the spectres, etc
22:12 < lnnb> i'm trying to optimize your wasteful interrogation tactics
22:12 < schangg> long story short : include/linux/compiler-gcc.h:91:30: fatal error: linux/compiler-gcc5.h: No such file or directory
22:12 < lnnb> but feel free to ignore my advice
22:13 < schangg> when running  make ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=/usr/bin/arm-linux-gnueabi- -k
22:13 < schangg> so I do have include/linux/compiler-gcc.h
22:14 < schangg> not sure why make is seeing linux/compiler-gcc5.h which I don't have
22:15 < schangg> so, any clue what I should be doing to get around that error ?
22:16 < darkmeson> it's probably a ludicrously ancient version of the kernel that needs libc5 rather than 6
22:16 < Psi-Jack> That's what I was kind of thinking.
22:16 < lessthan0> what is the best iscsi target server software in 2018?
22:17 < Psi-Jack> lessthan0: "best" is a useless word when asking questions like that.
22:17 < schangg> darkmeson it's a 2.6.35
22:17 < lessthan0> I am looking for something with good performance on bare metal and GNU2
22:17 < schangg> libc6 already existed at that time
22:17 < lessthan0> for only one LV one VG one PV
22:17 < Psi-Jack> lessthan0: What have you tried?
22:18 < Psi-Jack> And what is "GNU2?"
22:18 < lessthan0> I want to look before I leap
22:18 < lessthan0> GNU GPL V2
22:18 < Psi-Jack> So.. No GPLv3?
22:18 < lessthan0> I want to support free software first unless it becomes really old and insecure
22:18 < lessthan0> I could do GPL V3
22:19 < lessthan0> My understanding is that V2 is more free than V3
22:19 < darkmeson> schangg: the usual solution is to build via an ancient chroot or vm install, but understand that you'll probably end up with severe, unpatched vulnerabilities like heartbleed
22:20 < Psi-Jack> lessthan0: SCST
22:20 < darkmeson> you'd be better off forward-porting the changes if you're capable
22:20 < schangg> darkmeson heartbleed is a vuln of openssl, not the linux kernel
22:21 < darkmeson> sometimes you even get lucky and new kernels "just work" without extra patches
22:21 < Psi-Jack> schangg: Your a "vuln" :)
22:21 < g-> you're
22:22 < darkmeson> schangg: issues you'll run into when using ancient sources to build ancient kernels for ancient hardware, since backporting doesn't happen indefinitely
22:22 < schangg> and having a vulnerable kernel is not a concern for this research job
22:23 < schangg> darkmeson I'll be running the kernel in qemu so not really concerned by hardware issues
22:24 < darkmeson> you could maybe get by most of it by debootstrap'ing the oldest supported Debian release, but that's about all I have
22:24 < darkmeson> this client and wifi connection are being annoying atm
22:24 < lessthan0> the SCST page says that IET and TGT are even older than SCST. a lot of the tutorials I searched for put TGT out there as the standard. all of them have kernel support baked in?
22:25  * darkmeson still prefers tgt btw
22:28 < Psi-Jack> Well, SCST is kernel space, STGT is user space. LIO is newer, but not really completely stable.
22:28 < lnnb> schangg: what happens if you symlink the file so compiler-gcc5.h -> compiler-gcc.h
22:28 < Psi-Jack> Performance-wise, SCST is better. Stability-wise, SCST is solid.
22:29 < Psi-Jack> http://scst.sourceforge.net/comparison.html
22:29 < lessthan0> yeah looks like I would need to compile the kernel to add SCST?
22:30 < lessthan0> or I could just apt install tgt
22:30 < Psi-Jack> lessthan0: That.... Depends on your distro.
22:30 < lessthan0> debian 9
22:30 < lessthan0> they said its not in there
22:30 < lessthan0> I was reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCST
22:31 < Psi-Jack> You can download the scst source, and "make dpkg"
22:31 < hexnewbie> lessthan0: You have to compile from source, but it's not terribly complicated. I believe they even shared a guide upstream
22:31 < lessthan0> but that is not compiling a package or module it is compiling kernel am I right? I really don't know.
22:32 < lnnb> it sounds like they didn't actually provide you with all the sources needed to compile their modified version?
22:32 < Psi-Jack> lessthan0: make dpkg, sounds like it's NOT compiling a package?
22:32 < Psi-Jack> heh
22:32 < Psi-Jack> http://scst.sourceforge.net/downloads.html
22:32 < schangg> lnnb just found in the vendor source code that a compiler-gcc5.h had to be added
22:32 < BCMM> lessthan0: the kernel is actually a fairly straightforwards build and install compared to some userspace packages
22:33 < BCMM> nothing much in the way of dependancies and nothing much in the way of weird files that need installing in weird places
22:33 < hexnewbie> lessthan0: No, it uses the kernel headers (and possibly other information about the kernel building) to build a new kernel mdoule.
22:33 < lessthan0> so if I build a kernel module I do not need to compile the kernel but I need kernel sources to compile the SCST module?
22:34 < Psi-Jack> You need the kernel headers only.
22:34 < Psi-Jack> Which Debian provides.
22:34 < lessthan0> I have disk space to download all the sources now so if I need them later they are there.
22:34 < jim> and of courser the source of the module
22:34 < lessthan0> right
22:34 < Psi-Jack> You do not need the kernel sources, just the headers that Debian provides already in a package.
22:34 < lessthan0> ok
22:38 < Dagmar> Also, the ability to read documentation relating to the task
22:38 < Dagmar> Documentation that I'm very sure has been written and very widely disseminated across the intarwebs
22:38 < lnnb> schangg: doesn't that kernel version predate gcc5? i'm wondering what the file is even needed for  can you pastebin it ?
22:39 < hexnewbie> Well, I have built SCST without reading the docs. I admit that lead me into some minor complications, but minor.
22:39 < lessthan0> I didn't think I was going to need to compile anything today
22:39 < lessthan0> that kinda scares me
22:39 < lessthan0> I need the SAN to just work
22:40 < lessthan0> then next I will build a bare metal host for my VM's
22:40 < lessthan0> then I will start compiling things
22:40 < lessthan0> in that order
22:40 < Dagmar> Or you could just install CentOS because this type of transport is rather important to RHEL
22:41 < hexnewbie> Well, it's good to compile something before all that, so you make use of non-networked disk latency for at least one of the things you compile. ;p
22:42 < lessthan0> I have all the RAM I need to cache sources locally in ram disk
22:43 < hexnewbie> lessthan0: I was told to open a RFP for SCST in Debian when I complained it didn't come with Debian. Then I realised compiling to install it took me less time than complaining about it.
22:43 < lessthan0> I wanted to delay learning RHEL and CENTOS
22:43 < lessthan0> I switched from ubuntu to debian so I am starting to enjoy it
22:44 < lessthan0> maybe next month I will learn RH
22:44 < pingfloyd> why?
22:44 < lessthan0> I know I will need it for work but the directory structure package manager default utils are all different
22:44 < lessthan0> systemd is the same
22:45 < pingfloyd> if it's for work, you should just use whatever they do.
22:45 < lessthan0> I still need to get good at linux before I start over on RH
22:45 < lessthan0> funny thing is I tried RH first like 20 years ago
22:46 < pingfloyd> it's not that good
22:46 < pingfloyd> it's just what enterprise has a boner for
22:46 < lessthan0> yeah and I don't really prefer it
22:46 < pingfloyd> RH was good when the other choice was slackware
22:46 < xamithan> They like the support
22:46 < lessthan0> I know that all the stuff needed in enterprise is not the same that I need for myself
22:47 < pingfloyd> xamithan: having someone to call to tell them how to turn it off and on again?
22:47 < lessthan0> so I wanted to get really experienced on debian
22:47 < Dagmar> pingfloyd: It could be worse.  It could be Arch
22:47 < pingfloyd> true
22:47 < Psi-Jack> heh
22:47 < lessthan0> I don't like where ubuntu is going
22:47 < Psi-Jack> RH/EL is just fine, actually.
22:47 < Dagmar> When the other choice was Slackware, RH was _not_ a good choice
22:47 < pingfloyd> could be better though and be Debian :)
22:48 < Psi-Jack> Dagmar: Nope... Yggdrasil was. :)
22:48 < lessthan0> they want $ or personal information to use live patch
22:48 < Dagmar> Hardly
22:48 < lessthan0> through the GUI
22:48 < lessthan0> you can use it through CLI but they don't tell you that in the GUI or on the Ubuntu site
22:49 < Brainspackle> Ubuntu is like Fisher Price Linux
22:49 < lessthan0> they want $ for more than 3 machines using the livepatch GUI on one email account
22:49 < ayecee> ubuntu is more like Honda Linux.
22:50 < lessthan0> its like microsoft tactics
22:50 < jim> yeah I did redhat at that time... found it couldn't upgrade itself, so when it failed leaving a stinking mess, I bailed
22:50 < lessthan0> they sell your amazon search data, they are adsupported by amazon right on your screen when you boot up.
22:51 < pingfloyd> they're partners
22:51 < lessthan0> yes
22:51 < lessthan0> its not super bad but you have a choice
22:51 < lnnb> their installer uses a fully blown gtk3 environment on a squashfs that takes 90000 years to load into qemu without kvm
22:52 < ayecee> why are you loading a gui for a vm anyhow
22:52 < sauvin> lnnb, don't exaggerate. It only takes about six weeks.
22:52 < lnnb> ayecee: because thats what the iso boots to?
22:52 < jim> or for an installer
22:52 < Dagmar> Newflash, everything takes ages without KVM
22:53 < ayecee> use the server iso then
22:53 < pingfloyd> well, qemu certainly does
22:55 < Psi-Jack> kvm is qemu. :)
22:56 < lnnb> Dagmar: if I write my own GUI how long do you think it will take to boot on qemu without KVM?
22:57 < ayecee> depends, how long will it take you to write it?
22:57 < lnnb> that depends on what features you need, ayecee
22:57 < Jackass420> Anybody got some cool links?
22:57 < Psi-Jack> www.google.com
22:58 < ayecee> i would think it depends on what features _you_ need, lnnb
22:58 < Jackass420> I'm looking for rare distros (ones that fell out of comission and are no longer hosted by the original sites)
22:58 < compdoc> https://interculturallearningasia.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/links.jpg
22:58 < Jackass420> ArchiveOS is my one stop shop right now.
22:59 < searedvandal> Jackass420, search for discontinued distros on distrowatch
22:59 < Jackass420> I actually trid to make a blog last night.
22:59 < Psi-Jack> compdoc: That's some pretty cool links indeed.
22:59 < Jackass420> Those links are dead af. None of them are up anymore.
23:00 < compdoc> ty
23:00 < Psi-Jack> Jackass420: Do you have any Linux subjects, whether to ask for help on or provide help on?
23:00 < phinxy> Is it OK to add a partition with fdisk/gdisk on a mounted hard drive?
23:00 < koala_man> I considered qemu without kvm to be pretty snappy, but the comparison back in the day was with Bochs
23:00 < Jackass420> I was thinking more of an ftp sort of thing. I have been running some pretty outdated dists on vm, I don't really need help but I could provide a small bit.
23:00 < Psi-Jack> phinxy: The kernel will not automatically re-read the partition tables in that situation, but you can unsafely force it with kpartx afterwards.
23:01 < koala_man> phinxy: yes, as long as you don't modify the mounted partition
23:01 < Jackass420> Terminal isn't my favorite...
23:01 < Jackass420> I know most of the common ftps
23:02 < Jackass420> I was just wondering if there was an underground mirror I could visit somewhere.
23:02 < searedvandal> Jackass420, archive.org
23:02 < matsaman> most data centers are above ground for some reason
23:02 < searedvandal> Jackass420, more specifically https://archive.org/details/linux_distributions
23:03 < blackbeard420> Jackass420 !
23:03 < Jackass420> I also searched napalm with little to go with. I might try archive.org. I saw some pretty cool stuff there before but never looked into it since it's kinda hard to parse all that..
23:03 < Jackass420> Ayyyeee
23:03 < searedvandal> other than that just google it. pretty many sites dedicated to old linux isos
23:03 < phinxy> partprobe or partx?
23:04 < Psi-Jack> Either/or
23:04 < Psi-Jack> kpartx is part of util-linux.
23:04 < Jackass420> Pretty much sourceforge for everything right now. Thier mirror service doesn't host EVERYTHING though..
23:04 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: well im up on Solus-3-Budgie.iso & its running Opera 53.0 right away from a squashfs bundle. it took to the squashfs packages right away & ive done an "eopkg it me"
23:04 < Psi-Jack> Oi... Opera?
23:05 < Psi-Jack> triceratux--1000
23:05 < Jackass420> Opera is lit
23:05 < Jackass420> Opera OS lmao
23:05 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: so yeah it runs current software but i cant get mc to execute in urxvt because they dont build libtinfo :(
23:05 < matsaman> parted utils are pretty reliable
23:05  * triceratux does not care for gnome-terminal & has essentially never used it
23:06 < matsaman> what do you use?
23:06 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: in a situation like that id give up on urxvt & use xfce4-terminal. guess what. solus doesnt build that either rofl
23:07 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: i have a much better time debugging userland than debugging those boottime kernel panics ill admit :)
23:08 < Jackass420> There sure is a lot of puppy linux on there
23:08 < Jackass420> Might just boot up puppyXP
23:08 < phinxy> Is it not neat to symlink your ~ to another partition so separate linux-root from user-files?
23:09 < Jackass420> lmfao
23:09 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: gnome-terminal is much better than xfce4-terminal, and supports proper truecolor that xfce4-terminal does not do.
23:09 < Psi-Jack> And when you compare memory utilization when using common shared libraries amongst everything, you would notice, utilization is a lot lower. :)
23:09 < pingfloyd> phinxy: why don't you mount the other filesystem as /home instead
23:09 < phinxy> 256 or 4-million-whatever?  What is truecolor?
23:09 < prussian> Psi-Jack: aren't they literally both VTE terminals?
23:09 < Psi-Jack> prussian: Not quite.
23:10 < Dagmar> I'm pretty sure I don't f**king care if my text doesn't quite match the Pantone(tm) definitions.
23:10 < phinxy> pingfloyd• as a bound mount or just a standard mount?
23:10 < Psi-Jack> I mean, it is, but from GTK+ v2. Not v3.
23:10 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: yep ill get it straightened out. it does seem to be a bunch faster. & what works definitely works. i even installed xset so ive got cursor acceleration. but theres no cowsay ! how can you call that linux ?
23:10 < prussian> lame
23:10 < prussian> i forgot xfce is ancient still
23:10 < Psi-Jack> heh
23:10 < Dagmar> triceratux: you install the package that has cowsay is how
23:11 < matsaman> think I'd still take GTK+2 over 3
23:11 < matsaman> what nonsense it is
23:11 < Psi-Jack> Now that GTK+ v3 is matured enough, It's definitely more agreeable.
23:11 < phinxy> nvm a bind mount is when a directory should be available somewhere else.  I'll just mount /dev/sdb3 to /home
23:12 < matsaman> it couldn't possibly not be more agreeable given how detestable it always was
23:12 < jim> just making sure... in postgres, ' and " are very different, more so than in shells... my question is, can you have a string 'this is my "quoted" string'
23:12 < jim> ?
23:12 < matsaman> I can't imagine otherwise
23:12 < triceratux> Dagmar: im saying its a package solus doesnt provide. i have to find a snap. or do some other kind of crossplatform acquisition
23:13 < matsaman> anyway easily tested
23:13 < pingfloyd> prussian: they are both VTE based terminal emulators
23:13 < matsaman> triceratux: or configure make install
23:13 < matsaman> or choose a less absurd distro
23:13 < pingfloyd> prussian: grome-terminal adds on its own extra bloat
23:13 < Dagmar> If you install a snap version of that someone should smash your fingers
23:13 < matsaman> or of anything
23:14 < triceratux> lubuntu 18.10 lxqt will make all of this moot. it delivers a lightweight qt based desktop, & cowsay :)
23:14 < jim> matsaman, neither can I, just making sure... yeah, I can just do what I was planning and test it (Dagmar, that's violins!)
23:14 < matsaman> cowsay being the important part
23:14 < matsaman> alis can get you to the postgresql channel, too
23:14 < triceratux> ya gotta evaluate that stuff up front, yeah
23:15 < Desu> imo they should just drop the variants and just have them selectable at install time instead
23:15 < ultr4_l4s3r> triceratux, there is a ruby gem for cowsay, I think
23:15 < matsaman> Desu: too sensible
23:15 < cmptr> Okay, so after rebooting from my effed up bootload because of a windows update, KDE was working.  I updated then did a dist-upgrade which I ALWAYS do.  I got a warning about some NVIDIA Kernel thing and that the best thing to do is restart.  I did that..  Now I'm stuck with no GUI.
23:15 < hexnewbie> Desu: What, and lose the cool artwork for every different flavour? ;)
23:16 < cmptr> I have installed the latest kernel provided by the Debian packages, reinstalled nvidia-driver
23:16 < cmptr> Checked Alt + F7, and still nothing.
23:16 < matsaman> cmptr: grep EE /var/log/Xorg.0.log*
23:17 < phinxy> Installed NVIDIA-driver from official repo or with some unofficial .deb?
23:17 < Dagmar> You should perhaps tell us something more exact than "some NVIDIA kernel thing"
23:17 < Dagmar> It's probably an important detail
23:17 < jim> matsaman, yep, it works
23:17 < Bashing-om> cmptr: secure boot disabled when you installed the nvidia driver ?
23:17 < cmptr> nvidia-driver from debain sources.
23:17 < Dagmar> ...unless it's the usual carp about tainting the kernel which you should thoroughly ignore
23:17 < Dagmar> Bashing-om: What does that have to do with secure boot
23:18 < Psi-Jack> Nothing.
23:18 < Dagmar> No wait, I'm interested in hearing his made up answer
23:18 < Psi-Jack> LOL
23:18 < cmptr> It was about being built against a different kernel.  The package from NVIDIA never worked.  I spent hours months ago trying to get it to work.  Umm.  It says neouvoe is missing, but I don't need that.  THat needs to be blacklisted.  Umm
23:18 < cmptr> It does say fbdev is missing I believe.
23:19 < Dagmar> cmptr: On that bit about blacklisting noeveau I can confirm you are exactly right
23:19 < searedvandal> triceratux, https://rubygems.org/gems/cowsay this should get a cow speaking in solus as well
23:19 < Bashing-om> Dagmar: is not a proprietary driver 3rd party .. and secure boot will not allow to install ?
23:19 < Dagmar> Bashing-om: Not even close, man
23:19 < Psi-Jack> Bashing-om: It's a module.
23:19 < Psi-Jack> Not the initrd, not the kernel. :0
23:19 < triceratux> searedvandal: thanks. ill check it out
23:19 < cmptr> I installed UEFI if that helps, I use to have to add -nomodset in grub, but not anymore.
23:19 < lnnb> maybe Bashing-om is thinking about signed module loading
23:19 < Dagmar> Bashing-om: _After_ the machine has booted, "secure boot" has exactly zero control or relevance to anything
23:20 < searedvandal> triceratux, or you could take the opportunity to try solus build system and build it from source :)
23:20 < cmptr> I'm trying to think of weather I have secure boot or not enabled.  I know I have legacy disable in the bios.
23:20 < Bashing-om> Dagmar: :) .. noted .
23:20 < matsaman> cmptr: probably not the issue
23:20 < pingfloyd> cmptr: doesn't really matter if your OS is booting fine
23:20 < Dagmar> If you've an EFI partition and grub is writing to it, you've probably got both UEFI and secure boot
23:20 < cmptr> It started to fuck up after a windows update.
23:20 < cmptr> Frig*
23:20 < cmptr> Sorry.
23:21 < jim> thanks
23:21 < cmptr> I installed in UEFI mode.
23:21 < jim> you fixed it
23:21 < Dagmar> If your kernels are mysteriously failing to update, you're probably actually booting via Legacy Boot (i.e., MBR bootstrap) and your major failing is that everything you've done to try to update is being ignored because the motherboard isn't reading the EFI bootstrap
23:21 < cmptr> I didn't actually reinstall, I just reinstalled the bootloader.
23:21 < pingfloyd> I don't really notice until people make an issue of it
23:22 < Dagmar> cmptr: Generally "fsck" gets the point across, and is somewhat topica
23:22 < Dagmar> l
23:22 < cmptr> I don't have legacy enabled, and I am now actually getting the grub menu with Debian and windows.
23:23 < Dagmar> OKay but you should mainly be seeing a UEFI menu
23:23 < Dagmar> The one almost unconditionally good thing about UEFI is that it's made it nearly impossible for Windows to fsck us over on an update
23:23 < cmptr> UEFI within grub2?
23:24 < cmptr> When booting off the flashdrive for recover, it said UEFI.
23:24 < matsaman> has nothing to do with Windows update, just like non-UEFI
23:24 < cmptr> The windows update is what friged it up.  I'm sure of it.
23:24 < Dagmar> No, UEFI happens _before_ grub
23:24 < cmptr> It was a big update.  Lol.
23:24 < matsaman> cmptr: grep EE /var/log/Xorg.0.log
23:25 < Dagmar> UEFI has it's _own_ menu selector for allowing hte user to pick which image from the EFI partition is going to be booted
23:25 < Dagmar> Operating systems aren't supposed to touch things in there they didn't create
23:25 < matsaman> yes yes, like GRUB only harder to change, super fancy
23:26 < prussian> easier th change*
23:26 < Dagmar> So you can generally be sure Windows did *not* touch the stub that grub uses for UEFI booting
23:26 < matsaman> UEFI solved no problems whatsoever, except to help companies lock down hardware
23:26 < prussian> it solved a lot of problems
23:26 < matsaman> which they also could have already done without UEFI
23:26 < matsaman> prussian: naw
23:26 < cmptr> I am aobut to do what you asked matsaman.  Windows does what it wants to do apparently.
23:26 < matsaman> cmptr: yes
23:26 < Dagmar> ...plus you'd have already seen me in here cursing the names of everyone at Microsoft that I know if they did that
23:27  * matsaman rolls eyes
23:27 < Dagmar> I have had more than enough of Windows randomly fscking up my MBR
23:27 < Dagmar> One more time and I'm going to be evicting it from my home stuff forever
23:27 < matsaman> randomly, or when you install Windows? =P
23:27 < prussian> because of efi, you theoretically don't even need a bootloader anymore
23:27 < prussian> linux is a fully functioning efi application
23:27 < matsaman> prussian: it is a boot loader
23:27 < Dagmar> matsaman: Randomly.  The guy has a point about Windows Update occasionally causing something to decide the MBR needs to be refactored
23:28 < matsaman> Dagmar: he has a point that Windows does what it likes, but I've never heard of Windows breaking X only
23:28 < prussian> more accurate to call it another OS than a bootloader
23:28 < Dagmar> matsaman: YEah hes just wildly off the trail there
23:29 < matsaman> it's more accurate to call it a pathetic attempt at a power grab
23:29 < Dagmar> I can't say I totally disagree
23:29 < cmptr> I use GPT if that helps.  It says neouve not found, along with nv, fbdev and vesa.  dev/dri/card0 no suck directory.  Screen 0 detected because of no matching config section.  Device(s) detected but none match those in the config file.
23:29 < matsaman> I've never even seen a UEFI system that wouldn't let you pretend you were using a regular BIOS
23:29 < prussian> it's no better or worse than it was before, except theoretically you have a new and standardized abstraction to the firmare system below
23:29 < matsaman> they're utterly a waste of everything
23:29 < Dagmar> vesa being missing is a bad sign
23:29 < phinxy> field 6 fsck order in fstab, whats that.  should it ever be 1 or always 0?
23:30 < matsaman> cmptr: only concerned with EE lines
23:30 < matsaman> cmptr: put them into a pastebin
23:30 < cmptr> I was only able to boot into windows, if I used the WIndows boot loader, if I used the grub, it would say something that I can't remeber, but it gave me a little command line.
23:30 < siwica> I have created a custom man page and placed it in a dictionary that is in MANPATH. What file endings does this file has to have in order to be found by man?
23:30 < cmptr> I can't...
23:30 < cmptr> Those are all the ee lines matsaman
23:30 < matsaman> siwica: likely none in particular
23:30 < prussian> cmptr: use nouveau. there problem solved
23:30 < cmptr> NO
23:30 < Dagmar> phinxy: fs_passno.  It's explained in `man fstab`.  It can be 0, 1, or 2, but figuring out which is a no-brainer
23:30 < cmptr> NO NO NO  Hella performace issues.
23:30 < matsaman> cmptr: most likely that would solve your problem
23:31 < prussian> oh well?
23:31 < matsaman> anyway, if you don't have a graphics driver, you need one
23:31 < siwica> matsaman: It's called `foo` but `man foo` yields no results.
23:31 < Dagmar> cmptr: You're on a debian-derivative, right?
23:31 < cmptr> Yes.  Buster.
23:31 < cmptr> ANd it failed to load those modules I listed.
23:31 < Dagmar> siwica; It's gotta end in a man section like all the other pages
23:32 < prussian> you installed a new kernel, and obviously the dkms hooks errored at you installing/updating the nvidia nonfree crap. that's your problem
23:32 < Dagmar> cmptr: The distro-packaged version of hte nvidia driver should "just work".  It sounds like something's broken with updating your initrd tho
23:32 < cmptr> I didn't istall a new kernel until after I lost my dispaly.
23:32 < phinxy> Dagmar• so its a check at boot to see if there are any corrupt bits and pieces.  For a /home partition I guess 0 would be OK to speed up the boot time?
23:32 < prussian> so you have to reinstall or rebuild the rebuildable parts of the nvidia nonfree drm-like blob
23:32 < Dagmar> phinxy: No
23:32 < siwica> Dagmar: So `foo.1` in my case?
23:33 < Dagmar> phinxy: It's partly a vestigial bit of fstab.  Think of it as a mount order
23:33 < cmptr> The dispaly was workinng, then I did dist-upgrade (No new kernel was installed), restarted no screen.  Then I installed a new kernel
23:33 < matsaman> you changed your system and broke it
23:34 < cmptr> No, windows did it.
23:34 < cmptr> Even though I allowed it...
23:34 < matsaman> it's much more likely Debian did it, but it's not important is it?
23:35 < cmptr> Would it help if I said I've got a GTX 1080Ti?
23:35 < prussian> Lol. Dist upgraded and broke.
23:35 < prussian> Well there is the problem
23:35 < cmptr> I always do dist-upgrade and have never had a problem until now.  Lol.
23:35 < matsaman> cmptr: just go through the nvidia driver installation process
23:35 < cmptr> But there was about 1GB of space freed...
23:36 < cmptr> I purged the nvdia-driver and reistalled, rebooted, still bork
23:36 < pingfloyd> cmptr: look at the logs and see if it removed any packages
23:36 < cmptr> Where are the logs for apt?
23:36 < lnnb> "purged" ?  does that run the nvidia uninstaller?
23:36 < cmptr> Unno
23:36 < matsaman> cmptr: /var/log/ should be, with everything else
23:37 < pingfloyd> that's the difference between upgrade and dist-upgrade is that you're giving apt and friends permission to remove packages in order to update all the packages it can, if need be.
23:37 < matsaman> but those logs will just say what you already told everyone: that you made masses of updates
23:37 < lnnb> nvidia installer hijacks all your libgl.so's and interjects their own, probably some other things too  haven't tried it in a few years
23:37 < matsaman> anyway I'm not saying run 'apt-get install nvidia-whatevs', I'm saying go to your distro's website documentation on installing nvidia's driver _successfully_
23:38 < siwica> I put the man file to `usr/local/man/man.1/foo.1` and MANPATH includes `usr/local/man`. Still `man foo.1` yields no results.
23:38 < pingfloyd> dist-upgrade doesn't necessarily do masses of updates.  Especially if you stay on the same release while running it.
23:38 < siwica> *`man foo` that is
23:38 < cmptr> libcurl13 was the only thing removed.
23:39 < phinxy> sync or async on linux-root?  Does it matter if my hard drive has a small cache at perhaps 64K?
23:39 < cmptr> Installing it from the nvdidia website says that it's uncompatible with Debian becuase It's not Ubuntu...  I had to do a lot of stuff to get it to go any further including manaully modifying the script.
23:39 < koala_man> phinxy: sync if you need it to survive sudden power cuts. async if you want it to be fast.
23:40 < cmptr> Maybe if I run the nvidia-install-cleanup package?
23:40 < matsaman> cmptr: literally no one in the history of this conversation suggested you go to nvidia's website
23:40 < matsaman> so why exactly have you done that
23:40 < matsaman> maybe if you do _a single thing_ someone has actually suggested
23:41 < cmptr> I have.  matsaman.  I can't use pastebin.  I'm in TTY..
23:42 < cmptr> I am not using nevoua or whatever it's called.  THe performace is cancer.
23:42 < matsaman> cmptr: read https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers
23:42 < matsaman> nouveau performance is fine
23:42 < matsaman> and if you're worried about performance you probably shouldn't be using Debian, because you're probably doing something silly like using the stable version
23:43 < cmptr> Not unless it has been updated recently to support OpenGL...
23:43 < cmptr> I had it running perfectly fine wihtout using nouvea.
23:44 < cmptr> I'm thinking that neouva is not blacklisted anymore.
23:44 < phinxy> My / isnt mounted in fstab but from syslinux, the kernel parameters say: rw root=UUID=foo rootfstype=xfs ..  Is there a way to sneak in a "sync" mount option there?
23:45 < matsaman> what's wrong with fstab
23:45 < Namarrgon> why is it not in fstab?
23:45 < Namarrgon> init usually remounts / with the new settings after switch_root
23:46 < matsaman> but yeah, you could just as well ask why you're using syslinux and not grub
23:46 < phinxy> embedded
23:46 < matsaman> <eyeroll> everyone wants to be special
23:46 < matsaman> phinxy: embedded? What do you mean?
23:46 < matsaman> do you mean something that GRUB would fit on?
23:46 < matsaman> because I think you do
23:46 < Namarrgon> rootflags=
23:47 < Tech_8> hi
23:47 < matsaman> hi tech
23:48 < Tech_8> hi
23:48 < Tech_8> matsaman
23:48 < matsaman> yes?
23:48 < Tech_8> hi
23:48 < phinxy> why is / not in fstab!? *panics*
23:49 < matsaman> because you're using some cut-down nonsense distro because you think "embedded" means you can't have more than 0.00005 bytes of storage
23:49 < matsaman> because you're old
23:49 < tphelps> how old r u matsaman
23:49 < Namarrgon> phinxy: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/Documentation/admin-guide/kernel-parameters.txt#L3844
23:49 < matsaman> tphelps: so old
23:49 < tphelps> that sucks
23:49 < matsaman> yup
23:50 < tphelps> don't have to be rude though
23:50 < matsaman> he asked, that's why
23:50 < tphelps> lol how is that relevant
23:50 < matsaman> again, he asked
23:50 < tphelps> you were rude because somebody asked you a question?
23:51 < matsaman> no, I answered a question because it was asked
23:51 < tphelps> that's why? hmmm
23:51 < matsaman> it's regular communication
23:51 < tphelps> yea but you responded to my comment that you don't have to be rude
23:51 < tphelps> so you're actually answering a question that i didn't even ask you
23:51 < matsaman> which comment?
23:51 < tphelps> don't have to be rude though
23:51 < tphelps> maybe you're dyslexic
23:51 < matsaman> ...and full circle
23:52 < matsaman> you make conversation infinite
23:52 < phinxy> My embedded computer is quite a capable machine, actually matsaman.  Saving the planet one watt at the time..
23:52 < tphelps> matsaman how old r u
23:52 < matsaman> phinxy: and you imagine the watts it requires has something to do with the storage available to it?
23:52 < matsaman> yes, yes you do
23:52 < matsaman> _imagine_
23:52 < matsaman> tphelps: likes I said, super old
23:52 < tphelps> yea how old
23:52 < matsaman> might die during this convo
23:53 < matsaman> from oldiness
23:53 < tphelps> so, over 80?
23:53 < matsaman> way over 80
23:53 < tphelps> so you're a liar too
23:53 < tphelps> hmmm ignored by
23:53 < tphelps> lol troll
23:53 < matsaman> lololol, bro
23:53 < matsaman> so lol
23:54 < hexnewbie> People still use fstab?
23:54 < azarus> hexnewbie: yes
23:54 < Namarrgon> people still use clear-text passwords in passwd!
23:55 < Namarrgon> madness
--- Log closed Fri Jul 13 00:00:36 2018