--- Log opened Tue Jun 26 00:00:13 2018
00:23 < BenderRodriguez> catphish: teach me segment routing
01:32 < puff> Hi.  I normally use the emacs irc client, Erc, (running on ubuntu 16.04 LTS) for freenode.  However, at my makerspace, for some reason Erc can't get through.  Lo.  webchat.freenode.net works okay.  I can telnet to a mud and chat there. The guy who set up the network says there's absolutely no blocking and he's pretty reliable (he's the head of a little nonprofit that sets up free wifi networks).
01:32 < puff> Looks like it just times out.
01:33 < Casper> puff: which port? 6667?
01:45 < raj> anyone familiar with BSUB?
01:45 <+pppingme> puff try other ports, there's a list on the website
01:47 <+pppingme> raj as in lsbatch?
01:58 < puff> Casper, pppingme I normally used port 6667 but I tried a few different ports, same result.
01:58 <+pppingme> puff did you verify the ports you tried are ones the freenode servers listen on? (they have multiple servers, and each has different port settings)
02:00 < Casper> also, is "use SSL" enabled? if so, 6667 do not support ssl I think
02:00 <+pppingme> for most of the servers, I do believe that is correct
02:00 < meingtsla> 6697 would be an SSL-enabled port.
02:04 < puff> pppingme: Yeah. I'm going to try all of them now.
02:04 < puff> I don't think "use ssl" is enabled, again, in any other network, it works fine.
02:04 < puff> I wonder if the webchat uses port 80 or something.
02:12 < SlowJimmy> is it a lot of trouble to forward ports trhoough some comercial vpn service?
02:16 < muffinman8> @tds thanks for your help. Its much appreciated. Do you have any idea why iptables would prevent python from accessing the kernal. This is another issue I have been trying to resolve for quite some time now.
02:17 < DoctorDick> SlowJimmy: Depends on the service
02:17 < zerocool> Hello everyone. Maybe this is the wrong place, but is it okay to use SSL for SMTP for clients that do not support TLS?
02:17 < SlowJimmy> doctorRick its torguard
02:18 < DoctorDick> Go look at their documentation
02:45 < Vaevictus> hey all.  anyone ever heard of a software i could run (as a daemon) to monitor my connection status on my broadband? i've been having a lot of issues lately (dropouts, dhcp issues, general failures) and would love to have a tool that collects info, even if it's just connectivity to google dns or something
02:48 <+pppingme> Vaevictus start simple, figure out your gateway at your isp, then from a linux box if you have one, run this job every 5 mintues:   "ping -q -c 300 ip.of.isp.side >> isppinglog"
02:48 < Vaevictus> pppingme: yeah, i can manage that... :D
02:49 < Vaevictus> i was wanting something with perhaps some aggreagation
02:49 < Vaevictus> aggregation even
02:49 <+pppingme> then after a few hours, grep that for all lines containing "rtt"
02:49 <+pppingme> then break that down as needed
02:50 <+pppingme> that will give you times..
02:50 <+pppingme> other thing to look for is grep for "packets".. that will give you loss
02:50 <+pppingme> and again, break down as needed
02:51 < nojeffrey> If I have one of those network modules on a 3750 thats adds SFP's, and a port is labeled G2/TE1 how do I tell it to use one or the other in CLI?  https://i.imgur.com/WL0rWkr.png
02:52 < nojeffrey> do I just shut down the Gi1/1/2 port to use the Te1/1/1?
02:53 < Vaevictus> nojeffrey: well, you can turn up Te1/1/1 without shutting the other :D
02:53 < nojeffrey> Vaevictus what do you mean by 'turn up'?
02:58 < new2ip> ha ha, questions like that mean thats too much switch for you..
03:01 < Vaevictus> nojeffrey: you can make "line #2" functional without disabling "line #1"
03:03 < Casper> Vaevictus: for pppingme cron thing, also add a "date >> isppinglog"
03:04 <+pppingme> Casper or be creative, assume last entry is current, then subtract 5 mintues for each previous entry..  gota show your scripting skills
03:04 < Vaevictus> yeah, i'm not going to do this with cron.  maybe Net::Ping and some codified aggregation :D
03:05 < Casper> but if the 100 pings time out, it can be a good delay
03:05 < Casper> and could have even overlapping pings
03:05 <+pppingme> Casper maybe windows ping..  linux ping starts every ping at exactly a second later (can be overridden), regardless of replies coming in..
03:21 < nojeffrey> If I bring back the switch to the main server room and plug sfp > sfp switch to switch, the 10G link comes up(after an err-disabled link-flap)
03:25 < nojeffrey> Could the send/recieve be around the wrong way? Polarity I think is the word
03:26 < Casper> straight vs crossover? dunnot, never worked with sfp, but might want to look for that
03:29 <+pppingme> sfp doesn't care (well, it does, but not directly), its up to whatever media it converts to..  fibers need to be crossed, in most cases, copper should not be crossecd
03:31 < nojeffrey> The cables I bought are straight through, It looks like I can open one of the SC connectors to swap around, i'll try this first
03:33 < Vaevictus> nojeffrey: yeah, it can be wrong
03:33 < Vaevictus> remember that Tx goes to Rx on the other side
03:34 < nojeffrey> So the fiber patch panel, these would be wired as straight through? eg left side stays left side on both buildings
03:35 < Vaevictus> would be != should be != are
03:36 < nojeffrey> What is the standard that for people who run fiber? Or is it always up to the customer how they want it wired?
03:36 < Vaevictus> the real question is who's responsible for making them correct
03:38 <+pppingme> nojeffrey what do you mean what is the standard? if there are more than two strands, they typically follow tip coloring
03:39 < Vaevictus> pppingme: i think he means "which side should be on the right" ... and i suppose my answer would be "the right side"
03:39 < nojeffrey> +pppingme I mean people who run fiber for a living, do they normally patch them in as straight or crossover
03:39 < nojeffrey> never mind
03:40 <+pppingme> everything between patch panels is always straight, no mixing or crossing..  all cross-overs are always done in the patch cables between patch panel and device
03:41 < Vaevictus> of course, some contractors will make mistakes ^_^
03:41 < raj> pppingme, yes
03:42 <+pppingme> and in general (at least the way I do it), if I need to do a fiber cross over, I always do it on the end that I'd consider further away from the core (unless I forget and I'm too lazy to go back over)..
03:54 < nojeffrey> +pppingme Vaevictus it's up now, cheers
03:55 < nojeffrey> also I can see red laser coming out of left side at 2nd building, so now I know these are straight through
04:52 < Harlock> wow, driving in gta5 is so bad compared to 4
04:57 < Casper> yet there is probably a good proportion that find it better
04:59 < Harlock> doing a race is near impossible with the kb now
05:03 <+imMute> I thought all paired fiber runs are crossed over..
05:05 < nojeffrey> I have another 2 buildings to add to this trunk loop and different companies did the fiber runs, so I'll compare
05:32 < jaelae> rackspace shows off all their uptime green checkmarks. even while we are down. you lie green checkmarks.
05:33 < Casper> jaelae: read the fineprints
05:34 < Casper> what do they define as down?
05:34 < Casper> I've seen a "downtime being defined as more than an hour"
05:34 < jaelae> yea id bet it is a threshold they have to hit that causes it but we are guaranteed 99.99% uptime but who knows
05:35 < jaelae> someone must have done something wrong though cause i called and they said multiple customers are effected
05:36 < Casper> I've read somewhere that my (home) isp define a downtime as 4 full hours
05:36 < Casper> so 3 hours, 1 secs up, and 3 more hours is not a downtime
05:46 < jaelae> yea i mean here it is pretty critical so im sure its not that slack
07:58 < myxenovia> hi. will the game client im playing in my work can be seen by our network administrator?
07:58 < myxenovia> i mean will he know that the client im running is a game lol
08:13 < Novae> myxenovia, yes
08:14 < myxenovia> fck
08:14 < myxenovia> gotta kill myself now
08:14 < myxenovia> Novae how about using a vpn/
08:16 < Novae> myxenovia, go do some work
08:16 < myxenovia> Novae ofc. im not playing. i just open the game and hide it
08:17 < myxenovia> for some benefits
08:17 < myxenovia> Novae will vpn hide me?
08:17 < Novae> myxenovia, not from god
08:17 < myxenovia> thanks
08:24 < myxenovia> Novae anyway im a good employee believe me lol
08:40 < squ> how to capture .jpg 12 times per second? http://abell.as.arizona.edu/~hill/AllSkyCurrentImage.JPG
09:06 < LegendGenius> hi can i ask a question
09:11 < detha> you just did
09:11 < Atro> no he didnt, theres no question mark
09:13 < LegendGenius> so can i ask a question or not
09:13 < Roq> Ofcourse
09:14 < LegendGenius> its important
09:17 < purpleunicorn> hi
09:19 < purpleunicorn> how many mb do you think i should put if im creating a bootable USB drive? It says on UNetbootin: space used to preserve files across reboots
09:20 < Atro> none
09:20 < Atro> depedds if you wanna store on it
09:20 < purpleunicorn> well im going to be using it as a desktop and will be storing files maybe and other apps
09:21 < Atro> then add as much as your usb permits
09:33 < HappyRetard> omg i luv squishy poop
10:54 < spaces> since when are retards happy ?
11:00 < purpleunicorn> hey
11:13 < Lachezar> Hey all. I've got a question about HTTP (protocol level), is this the proper channel for that, or is there a specific HTTP channel?
11:17 < Lachezar> Basically I'd like to know if there is a proper way to specify a Character Set for a %-encoded URL in GET requests.
11:27 < djph> not that I'm aware.
11:28 < djph> I mean, URLs are primarily ascii, with whitespace & specials being encoded.
11:29 < djph> (or rather, I'm not aware of them supporting un-encoded utf8 characters)
11:32 < Lachezar> djph: That is ok. It's perfectly find to use %-encoded binary representation of the non-latin characters. But there doesn't seem to be a reliable way to declare the character encoding used to obtain the binary representation.
11:32 < djph> read the RFC?  I think I'm misunderstanding your question
11:33 < regdude> there was an attack that used wrong "G" for google.com as URL
11:33 < Lachezar> djph: Commonly we're using the Character Set of the request body and decode the path + query with the same encoding, but that's not acceptable for GET requests.
11:33 < djph> the wrong 'g'?
11:33 < regdude> non-ascii
11:33 < pyc> Lachezar: Most servers uses UTF-8 to perform the %-encoding.
11:34 < pyc> Lachezar: There is no standard encoding or no way to specify encoding specified in the RFCs. It's completely upto the server. Most servers choose to use UTF-8.
11:34 < Lachezar> pyc: So does ours! But URL encoding is typically client-side, especially for the Query string.
11:34 < regdude> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/apr/19/phishing-url-trick-hackers
11:34 < djph> regdude: is this the point where we have to explain how <a href=bogus-site.com>'funny g'oogle.com</a> works?
11:34 < regdude> no
11:34 < Lachezar> regdude: There were TONS of paypal with cyrillic р а у symbols.
11:35 < grawity> Lachezar: so basically you're trying to fix a <form method=get>?
11:35 < Lachezar> regdude: Hence now any non-latin-only domain gets the PUNY-code representation in browsers.
11:35 < Lachezar> grawity: *Fix* is not the proper term, I'd like to allow clients to somehow specify the Character Set.
11:36 < Emperorpenguin> no
11:36 < Emperorpenguin> should only be unicode
11:36 < Emperorpenguin> always
11:36 < Emperorpenguin> that's it
11:36 < Lachezar> Emperorpenguin: Unicode is not a character set :). UTF-8? UTF-7? UTF-16-(BE|LE)?
11:37 < Emperorpenguin> meant UTF-8
11:37 < Emperorpenguin> meh
11:37 < grawity> Unicode is *very much* a character set
11:37 < Emperorpenguin> anyway not ascii
11:37 < Emperorpenguin> ascii is stupid
11:37 < grawity> you're talking about *encodings* of that character set
11:37 < grawity> or representations, or transformation formats, or whatever
11:37  * Lachezar : mea culpa, encoding.
11:37 < grawity> most browsers will use the same encoding as the form's HTML page itself uses
11:37 < grawity> so if the page has <meta charset="utf-8">, the browser will submit forms in UTF-8
11:38 < pyc> Lachezar: There is now way for the client to specify the encoding because most servers would first URL-decode the query parameter and then interpret the decoded data to be in UTF8-encoding.
11:38 < grawity> except for old IE, which *IIRC* requires a utf8hack
11:38 < grawity> however, <form> *does* have accept-charset= if for some silly reason you need it to be different from the page itself https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/form
11:38 < Lachezar> grawity: That's if you have pages, if you have HTTP base API…
11:38 < grawity> Lachezar: as in XHR?
11:39 < grawity> yeah you really need to mention that *earlier*
11:39 < Lachezar> pyc: Well... Not exactly. See Tomcat decodes the URI after parsing the request, and with proper configuration uses the Character-Set from the Content-Type of the request, which works really well, unless it's a GET.
11:40 < Lachezar> grawity: As in 'curl'. As in 'Java-HTTP-Client'. As in 'Android http client', etc.
11:41 < Lachezar> grawity: Probably *should've* mentioned that, but I *was* asking for protocol-level.
11:41 < grawity> there's no "protocol-level", because there's no pre-request negotiation in HTTP
11:41 < grawity> from your examples, I believe curl doesn't do URL encodings at all, you give it a buffer / bytearray and it just percent-encodes that
11:42 < grawity> since it's mainly a C API
11:42 < Lachezar> grawity: command-line curl :-/
11:42 < grawity> same thing
11:42 < grawity> command-line argv[] array consists of C strings, i.e. bytearrays
11:42 < Lachezar> grawity: like 'curl "http://server.api/suggest?search=кирилица"'
11:42 < grawity> null-terminated bytearrays to be pedantic
11:43 < grawity> right, that doesn't do any encoding
11:43 < grawity> the encoding has been done when you typed the command into your terminal
11:43 < grawity> the shell receives raw bytes, and passes those raw bytes to curl
11:43 < Lachezar> grawity: Hmpf. I see your point: bash encodes that?
11:43 < grawity> no, your terminal does
11:44 < Lachezar> grawity: Mmmm... Yes, right.
11:44 < grawity> tools like curl *could* decode the URL based on current locale, and re-encode it to whatever charset+encoding you specify
11:44 < grawity> technically, that is
11:45 < grawity> practically, it doesn't seem to be implemented in curl
11:45 < grawity> I guess nobody needed it until now
11:45 < Lachezar> grawity: let me see if it does the %-encoding part at least
11:46 < grawity> do you happen to know a HTTP "echo" server
11:46 < Lachezar> grawity: But I thing you understand my (moot) point.
11:46 < grawity> curl "http://search.api/suggest?search=$(printf %s кирилица | iconv -t koi8-r)"
11:47 < Lachezar> grawity: 'nc -l -p 5000'
11:48 < Lachezar> grawity: No, CURL does't even encode non-asciis
11:50 < grawity> I'm trying to find the part of HTTP/1.1 spec which requires those to be encoded in the first place
11:52 < Lachezar> grawity: But that's a bit digging into a product, while I still look at the protocol level. That is, I can do 'openssl s_client -connect www.google.com:https', and manually type the request.
11:52 < tempy> Hi, anyone experience with Aerohive AP 130's?
11:52 < Lachezar> grawity: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-2.1
11:52 < tempy> I'm searching for the latest firmware
11:54 < grawity> Lachezar: at the protocol level, GET request parameters also seem to be just byte (octet) arrays
11:54 < grawity> even if Tomcat expects to decode them as a particular encoding, that's a bit digging into a product :)
11:57 < squ> how to capture .jpg 12 times per second? http://abell.as.arizona.edu/~hill/AllSkyCurrentImage.JPG
11:58 < grawity> in a way that avoids getting yelled at by the server's admin?
12:01 < Lachezar> grawity: Server's admin? Haven't seen one in decades :). Dev-Ops :-/
12:03 < Lachezar> grawity: Hm. I just realised what bothered me in your 'Tomcat' and 'Octet' remark: Java-EE Api for Servlets only work with Strings which *are* unicode, and the conversion happens before the programmer can in
12:03 < Lachezar> ... interlope with the request processing.
12:04  * Lachezar curses Enter instead of Backspace.
12:04 < grawity> and I guess it's the same with Java-HTTP-Client
12:04 < Lachezar> grawity: Pretty much.
12:04 < Lachezar> grawity: And Android :-/
12:05 < grawity> shouldn't be a problem if Java-HTTP-Client always emits UTF-8 and Tomcat always expects UTF-8, though
12:05 < grawity> it's possible that some APIs accept either Strings or byte[]
12:05 < Lachezar> grawity: Eh. That's not how it works in reality. In reality both end up using either ISO-8859-1 or the system default encoding.
12:06 < grawity> e.g. Python3 'requests' module accepts either str or bytes
12:06  * Lachezar realises he's stuck in first world problems.
12:07 < Lachezar> grawity: How does Python3 represent u'Кирилица' then?
12:07 < Lachezar> grawity: the requests module I mean.
12:07 < grawity> non-ascii text is literally the opposite of first world problem
12:07 < grawity> GET /%D0%9A%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0 HTTP/1.1
12:08 < Lachezar> grawity: Ugh? Not foraging for food is first world problem ;)
12:08 < Lachezar> grawity: UTF-8 by default, or uses system-default?
12:08 < grawity> and being able to read and write in your own language isn't?
12:08 < Lachezar> grawity: Reading-Writing is Second-world problems.
12:10 < Lachezar> Unless someone intervenes, I have to put this into "I'm basically f*ked" category of problems.
12:11 < djph> Lachezar: sounds like you've been there for a while :/
12:13 < Lachezar> djph: Well... I have been using UTF-8-ftw approach, and it worked, since I am generally API producer and it's only consumer.
12:13 < Lachezar> djph: I decided to make it *properly*, but alas…
12:14 < djph> welcome to ... well, where-ever this is :)
12:14 < grawity> the answer still remains "there is no protocol-level negotiation"
12:14 < grawity> declare the expected encoding in your API docs, as with everything else
12:15 < Lachezar> grawity: I hate having to *fix* stuff that does not (necessarily) need to be hard-coded. It feels wrong, hence it's not right ;)
12:15 < Lachezar> grawity: But I wasted all our time enough already.
12:16 < Lachezar> Thanks everyone for keeping up with me.
12:21 < lenny__> hi, is there a way I can login to my router but not through web interface? login through terminal in linux?
12:30 < squ> if router accepts
12:36 < lenny__> squ, router need to support it, right?
12:56 < jackbrown> hello
12:57 < jackbrown> anyone has experience in surveillance cameras ?
12:57 < djph> probably.  as always, it's best to ask the real question.
12:58 < squ> jackbrown: I'm trying to create video from camera output
12:59 < jackbrown> djph, looking for a good brand model of dome motorized camera for external sourveillance
12:59 < jackbrown> djph, about fixed camera I'm already oriented in Unify or Ubiquiti that seems fine
13:00 < djph> hm, dunno about 'dome motorized', UBNT makes decent enough fixed cams.  Hear Hikvision is another good vendor (but IDK if they're just fixed, or have PTZ features as well)
13:01 < jackbrown> djph, tnx
13:21 < xinming> Is it possible to directly connect 2 machines via NIC without setting up tcp ip?
13:21 < xinming> I mean peer to peer without tcpip for internal communation
13:21 < xinming> communication.
13:22 < xinming> I mean using the mac to connect 2 machines with 4 ports,  2 ports on each machine.
13:22 < Atro> xinming: yes, depending on the system, you can get APIPA iP's if you have no dhcp
13:22 < djph> sure, I mean, they're going to still NEED IP stuff set (even if just APIPA addresses)
13:23 < xinming> Ok, So, seems, tcp stack is also requirements. :-)
13:24 < djph> well, at least the IP portion -- the NICs need to know they're on the same (IP) network
13:24 < xinming> Ignore me then, I just thought that wether we can have some sort of network which dirrectly connects 2 machines without tcpip :-)
13:24 < xinming> yea, I just realized, many features needs an IP
13:24 < xinming> so, even p2p connections needs to know each other's ip
13:24 < djph> Realistically, the two hosts will be talking via ethernet MAC addresses, but L3 (IP) glues L1/L2 to L4+
13:25 < xinming> yea, I'ts just my random thoughts
13:26 < jackbrown> 1) If I have to setup a HOME Lan is better that all the LAN devices stay on the same subnet ? (ex. 192.168.1.X)
13:26 < Atro> yes
13:26 < jackbrown> Atro, ok
13:26 < Atro> unless you have more thann 254 devices
13:26 < bezaban> what does better mean?
13:26 < jackbrown> Atro not it's home, not a castle
13:26 < Atro> jackbrown: idk maybe you live in a penthouse, i dont judge ya
13:27 < jackbrown> Atro, penthouse the one with girls ? I'd love, but not it's just house
13:28 < jackbrown> Atro, let's say that I'd like to use 3 routers to spread the internet connection in my home 1 each floor, of course the first one as router because it will be connected to the DSL, and the other ones as switches then
13:28 < Atro> jackbrown: correct
13:29 < jackbrown> It's better that I connect the two switches to the router or i can connect in cascade ?   Router LAN1 port ------- LAN1 port Switch LAN2 Port ------------ LAN1 port 2nd Switch ?
13:29 < detha> xinming: two boxes, with just L1/L2 connectivity, will talk fine if you put windows 3.11 with netbios on them....
13:30 < jackbrown> Atro, what do you think?
13:31 < djph> jackbrown: you're doing it wrong. have ONE (1) router.  If you need better wifi coverage, install wifi Access Points.
13:32 < jackbrown> djph, Do the access point have output LAN ports ?  fro example the router I use as switch has 4 LAN port, 1 I will use to get the connection from the router the other 3 I can use to connect using cable whatever I want pluse they works as wireless access point
13:32 < jackbrown> djph, Am I wrong?
13:33 < jackbrown> djph, other think this router that I use as switch it has output Rj11 phone port so just in case I can set it up to have voice line
13:33 < djph> jackbrown: no, an access point is merely a bridge between wifi and wired.  Using multiple *routers* spread throughout your home is a dirty hack, and adds unnecessary complications to your setup.
13:33 < djph> also, no, your "router with a phone port" won't provide phone service.
13:34 < djph> (well, unless it's directly connected to the internet)
13:34 < squ> he can speak to it
13:34 < jackbrown> djph, why ? If I set it as switch and I give it a fixed IP in the same main router subnet ? Why it wont work fine ?
13:34 < jackbrown> djph, the router that I use as switch has VOIP option and I can adda a VOIP account with a phone number, then I have just to plug in it a commone phone
13:35 < jackbrown> djph, I'm not arguing I'm just trying to understand from people that know more than I am
13:36 < djph> jackbrown: in general terms "all in one" devices make certain assumptions with regards to features -- for example, the phone ports only working when the device is the network's gateway.
13:38 < djph> jackbrown: yes, you "can" probably turn off some features and jury rig it to work ... but realistically, unless you're poor and *have* to hack this together, it's honestly just better to do it right
13:38 < jackbrown> djph, are you sure? I configured many VoIP device and it doesn't work that way, actually I'm using a VoIP device that is connected to the router that has a different subnet from the modem of my ISP  ( ISP is 192.168.0.X --------->  my Router is 192.168.178.X) and the VOIP works
13:38 < djph> your router's *wan* interface is connected directly to the modem, righ?
13:38 < jackbrown> djph, i'd like to  "do it right" as you said if the AP that costs 150$ would provide me anything that I need but they only give me Wireless
13:38 < jackbrown> djph, yes
13:39 < jackbrown> djph, it has 2 WAN  1 is DLS other is the 1st LAN port that can be turned into WAN access if necessary
13:39 < jackbrown> djph, http://minitel.se/shop/ws89/49889/art89/h3572/147733572-origpic-52df31.jpg
13:39 < djph> so, you're using a device in the way it was intended, and you're saying that I'm wrong for telling you if you hook it up in an *unintended* manner, it won't work.
13:40 < jackbrown> djph, sorry I'm not saying anything about you are wrong or you are right, I'm just trying to understand
13:40 < jackbrown> djph, what do you mean for unintended manner ? I never tought to use it in a strange way
13:41 < djph> jackbrown: when you have a "router" with features (e.g. a VoIP Gateway), if you have it set up in ANY manner other than the intended (i.e. "wan port to internet"), the features are not likely to work.
13:41 < jackbrown> djph, by the way these routers works even as DECT base and DECT repeaters
13:42 < djph> You're talking about using "routers(tm)" spread throughout your home as... apparently switches and APs.  That *will* most likely stop certain features from working.
13:42 < jackbrown> djph, anyway do not focalize too much on VOIP service, probably I don't even need that if it works fine but if it will not work since isn't connected straight to the WAN I don't care
13:42 < jackbrown> djph, sure they will not have DHPC and FIREWALL, the only one with these service active will be the MAIN
13:43 < jackbrown> djph, by the way VOIP service it's just about configuring an account and voilà, I bet that it will work anyway but if it doesn't I don't care since it's not the main purpose I'm using these routers
13:43 < djph> anyway, you've been told what the right approach is.  Feel free to take the advice, or not.
13:44 < jackbrown> djph, ok thanks for the advice but if I'd like to follow the correct approach using simply an Acess Point that is designed to be an access point I have to connect all them to the main router correct?
13:45 < jackbrown> djph, you mean buy a good switch for example 16 ports PoE Cisco 1Gigabit or Unify then use it to connect all the Access Points ad the LAN camera and the RJ45 ports you want to spread in the home, and all the wires have to go to the same Switch that is just connected to the main router
13:45 < jackbrown> djph, that all  ?  correct ?
13:47 < djph> jackbrown: yeah, one (1) router, a switch with sufficient port capacity for what you need to install, and several APs spread around.
13:47 < jackbrown> djph, for example  MAIN router than this http://www.nventawires.it/ubiquiti-networks-unifi-switch-16-port-150w.html
13:47 < jackbrown> djph, APs or LAN camera or just cable with RJ45 female at end
13:47 < jackbrown> djph, the concept is 1 switch  NO BRIDGES
13:48 < jackbrown> djph, I have a question about this configuration:  ok so it's suppose that the main router is connected to the switch via LAN cable    Router--------Switch--->16 ports
13:48 < jackbrown> djph, since the maximum speed in a single LAN cable is 1GBps how will it be able to handle a bigger traffic ?
13:48 < jackbrown> djph, did I made myself clear ?
13:49 < djph> jackbrown: the switch handles 1gpbs to all ports, typically simultaneously.
13:50 < jackbrown> djph, yes but it's connected to just ONE POR of the router that handle 1GBps ?
13:50 < djph> although cheaper switches may only be able to handle say 50-75% of the ports before the traffic starts blocking
13:51 < djph> jackbrown: so? the router only comes into play when you have to route (i.e. leave your network)
13:51 < djph> and, in nearly all cases, your WAN connection is 1gbps or less.
13:52 < vavkamil> https://www.wi-fi.org/news-events/newsroom/wi-fi-alliance-introduces-wi-fi-certified-wpa3-security
13:52 < discipulus> Which network manager/dhcp client has the fastest start time in unix based systems? I use dhcpcd and even with the noarp argument, it takes a really long time to start/establish a connection. Are there any faster alternatives or are they all equally slow?
13:53 < djph> What's the usecase? laptop, server, something else?
13:53 < jackbrown> djph, correct the speed is intende within the network not from WAN  my mistake
13:54 < lupine> speed will mostly be determined by the server
13:54 < lupine> dhcpcd should be close to instantaneous if the server responds promptly
13:54 < jackbrown> djph, they seems to be cheap https://www.amazon.it/Linksys-LGS116P-EU-Velocit%C3%A0-Connessione-Conformit%C3%A0/dp/B00GECC11O/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1530013774&sr=8-9&keywords=Switch%2BPOE&th=1
13:54 < djph> jackbrown: then the switch-to-router connection speed doesn't matter.  A decent switch (e.g. that UBNT one) will have sufficient non-blocking throughput to handle line rate on all ports simultaneously.
13:55 < jackbrown> djph, ! thanks
13:55 < detha> lupine: doesn't the dhcp protocol say something about waiting N seconds for leases from different servers?
13:55 < lupine> if you get an authoritative response back, it shouldn't
13:56 < jackbrown> djph, cisco is better ?
13:56 < djph> jackbrown: it's also apparently an unmanaged switch.  They're ... well, not something I'd use.  Also, they've only got 4 PoE ports.
13:57 < djph> er 8 POE ports ... looking at the wrong model in the datasheet (i.e. only half the ports on the switch are PoE capable)
13:57 < jackbrown> djph, unmanage switch? What does that means ? Isn't the router that manage the switch then assigning the IP addresses?
13:58 < jackbrown> djph, yes I knew about the PoE since I don't need many PoE would be fine (ex. in those 8 I'll installa 4 camera and 4 APs and other 8 will be just RJ45 cable plug into the wall)
13:59 < jackbrown> djph, but I didn't understand the difference between managed and unmanaged switch
13:59 < djph> jackbrown: a "managed" switch lets you configure things (e.g. VLAN tagging, whether or not the port will supply PoE, a server to log errors to, lots of stuff).  An "unmanaged" switch is dumb, and simply gives you howevermany ports to connect things to.
14:00 < jackbrown> djph, there's really need of a managed switch? I tought all the switch were dumb and once connected to the router becam an extension of it
14:00 < jackbrown> djph, first time that I hear this managed switch thing, if you say it's better I will go deep trying to undersand
14:00 < djph> jackbrown: anywhere you don't want to be blind.
14:00 < discipulus> I'm rnning a desktop with wired connection. It takes a total of 10 seconds to start dhcpcd and estalish a connection according to journalctl
14:00 < djph> something like the UBNT EdgeSwitch you linked before is "managed".
14:00 < jackbrown> djph, other question is that probably better to buy a PoE+ switch so I will be fine for the future too
14:01 < jackbrown> djph, ok so the switch need to be managed and  PoE+
14:01 < djph> jackbrown: "probably" -- but really only if you have PoE(+) devices you're going to plug things into.
14:02 < jackbrown> djph, but with PoE+ i can plug both PoE+ and PoE, if the price difference isn't that much probably it's better to buy a PoE+ just in case of future upgrades
14:03 < djph> I mean, here I have a 24-port non-poe (yet managed) switch, and an 8-port PoE (managed) switch.
14:03 < jackbrown> djph, your  ? which brand model you own if I can ask ?
14:04 < djph> Didn't need the PoE at the time I got the 24-port one (but I needed 16 ports -- and my rule of thumb is when you know how many ports you need, buy something that's going to be 80% full or less)
14:04 < dogbert_2> m00000000000000000000000000000!
14:04 < djph> They're Ubiquiti. The 24 port is the ES-24-Lite, and the 8 port is one of the UniFi models (UniFi 8-120 or something like that)
14:04 < djph> 'sup dogbert_2
14:04 < jackbrown> djph, ok so you don't suggest to buy a many ports switch  for example if I know that probably I'm going to use 14 ports it's better that I but a 16 ports not a 24 ? correct ?
14:05 < djph> well, 14/16 is 87.5% full.  I'd upgrade to the 24-port.
14:05 < jackbrown> djph, ok
14:05 < jackbrown> djph, I think I need a 24 ports so, since cameras + AP  + Rj45 plug in the wall
14:06 < jackbrown> djph, by the way how do you connect the router to the switch ?   ROUTER LAN1 to  1LAN port of the switch ? Or it has a dedicated WAN port  ?
14:06 < djph> and if you have a need for at least 20 connections today, get a 48-port switch.
14:07 < jackbrown> djph, 48 is to much for my home especially if I'm planning to fix it and spread the wires into the walls, once it's done and it's all painted I will not break the walls to spread other wires so it's better that I do it right once
14:07 < djph> jackbrown: in my case (an ER-4 router), "eth3" is a SFP cage, so router "eth3" to "eth25" on the switch (another SFP cage)
14:08 < jackbrown> djph, so you will "lose" one of the switch port just for the incoming router LAN cable   correct ?
14:08 < djph> jackbrown: again, it's *my* rule of thumb.  You don't have to follow it.
14:08 < jackbrown> djph, if you have a 16 ports router you can connect 15 devices then   right?
14:08 < jackbrown> djph, 16 ports switch I mean
14:08 < djph> jackbrown: depends on whether the router and switch have the capability to use fiber or not (mine do)
14:09 < djph> If your router only has copper ports (i.e. RJ45), then yeah, you have 15 devices + uplink to router on a 16-port switch.
14:09 < jackbrown> djph, fiber isn't on the  router WAN ?  I don't understand how fiber is involved in the connection within the router and the switch I tought that this connection is done using LAN TO LAN port
14:09 < djph> jackbrown: it is a "LAN" port.
14:10 < jackbrown> djph, which router do you use If I can ask ? Is it connected directly to the Fiber cable into your home or to some kind of modem the ISP provided ?
14:10 < jaelae> Ugh had our third outage in 2 weeks last night. I’m waiting for my boss to lose his mind today
14:10 < djph> jackbrown: the router (a ubiquiti ER-4) has an SFP port.  I put in a fiber module (Mikrotik, IIRC), and put the second one into the switch's SFP port.
14:11 < jackbrown> djph, your switch has a fiber port ?
14:11 < djph> One of the other ports (probably "eth0" on the router) is plugged into the ethernet cable coming out of the modem.
14:11 < djph> jackbrown: for the third time, yes.
14:13 < jackbrown> djph, oh gosh  I didn't undestood so the 2 SFP ports I see on this switch are for incoming fiber cables just in case ? http://www.nventawires.it/ubiquiti-networks-unifi-switch-16-port-150w.html
14:13 < djph> yeah, so you can use the SFP ports to connect the switch and the router, and then have 16 other devices connected to the switch.
14:13 < djph> (and a spare SFP port for a second switch)
14:14 < jackbrown> djph, bridge then   switch to switch if I want to upgrade
14:15 < djph> or need multiple switches because 48 ports isn't enough (although, the 48-port models have SFP+ ports, so 10g interconnects)
14:16 < jackbrown> djph, this seems good. not that cheap but you buy it once https://www.senetic.it/product/US-24-500W
14:16 < jackbrown> djph, if 48 isn't enough buy a rack I saw some Cisco with hunderds ports
14:17 < djph> well, yeah, but there's a large gap between 2-3 48-port swiches in a rack, and a 5000-series
14:18 < jackbrown> djph, ah I got
14:19  * dogbert_2 is bugging network core engineering to do a data circuit flip at my site this morning
14:19 < jackbrown> djph, 24 should be fine for my home more than enough, do you suggest to bring a rj45 plug into the wall in each room ? (i know it depend on th needs )
14:19 < jackbrown> djph, if I show a map of the apartment could you give me an Idea how many APs I need ? (I think 3)
14:19 < djph> depends.  I mean, the bathroom?  probably not.
14:20 < regdude> everyone needs bathroom Ethernet
14:20 < jackbrown> djph, maybe not :)
14:20 < djph> regdude: I just use Google tISP there
14:21 < djph> anyway, family room (den / tv room / whatever) - instantly 4+ near the cable / coax jacks.  Bedrooms? two.
14:21 < dogbert_2> LOL...I'd put 4 in the living room, 2 in each bedroom, family room == 4, etc
14:22 < jackbrown> djph, bedrooms ? 2 RJ45 LAN PLUG each ?
14:22 < jackbrown> djph, why?
14:22 < djph> jackbrown: yeah
14:22 < djph> because while you may only "need" one, that second may come in handy.  And really, it's $10 and done.
14:23 < jackbrown> djph, yes sure I know that is cheap, i was trying to undestand why but I figured it out
14:23 < djph> and it's easier to run 2 cables at one time, than have to come back 6 months or a year from now, and run a second one.
14:23 < dogbert_2> yeah...and it's cheaper also :P
14:24 < regdude> if you never done it before, then it is very likely you will break at least one cable
14:24 < djph> I think I have 6 or 8 behind the TV
14:24 < xinming> What is the best setup to make 2 computers connecting directly with 2 ports on each machine?
14:24 < jackbrown> djph, 6 or 8 ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
14:24 < xinming> and if we use bonding, what mode is most suitable for this case?
14:24 < djph> xinming: static IP addresses and an ethernet cable.
14:24 < jackbrown> djph, isn't better to have 1 and then connect it to another switch ?
14:25 < djph> jackbrown: no, you made that point before -- a switch will have one (1) uplink at 1gbps, and all devices will share that 1g link then
14:25 < jackbrown> djph, for example since I already have 1 LAN port beneath my TV and I need to connect more thing  I was thinking to use a switch there to have many ports and have wireless too
14:25 < regdude> xinming: for bonding it depends on the traffic. If you are not sure, then you should go with LACP (802.3ad)
14:25 < jackbrown> djph, ok got it if you do that the will be limited
14:26 < jackbrown> djph, if I put a switch with 4 ports fo example  1 port incoming from the other switch and other 3 for my devices
14:26 < djph> Now, you CAN make the argument that all the devices aren't using the network at the same time -- although in my case -- TV, playstation, mediacenter (server), a wireless AP are all connected back there.
14:26 < jackbrown> djph, the will have 1GBps/3
14:26 < jackbrown> djph, correct ?
14:26 < djph> assuming all three devices are utilizing the network at the same time.
14:26 < xinming> djph: I know, What I mean is, using bonding, what mode is best?
14:26 < jackbrown> djph, yes sure
14:27 < djph> xinming: the one that both ends support?
14:27 < jackbrown> djph, they will have 333Mbps limit each
14:27 < djph> jackbrown: more or less
14:27 < jackbrown> djph, it's a big speed anyway but it's something I have to take care of
14:28 < djph> whereas, with my setup, they each have 1gbps to the rest of the network (realistically only "necessary" for the AP and the mediacenter)
14:28 < jackbrown> djph, more than that it's hard you use the same time Playstation media center and whatever since they are connected to the same TV
14:28 < regdude> Playstation downloads a lot of stuff, you might be watching TV while waiting
14:28 < djph> not really - wife will watch something on a different TV (streaming from the mediacenter) while I'm using the TV.  Not to mention whatever's connected to that AP
14:29 < djph> *using the playstation.
14:29 < jackbrown> djph, but anyway thanks for the concept, If I add  a switch to another switch I will limit the LAN speed for those who are connected to that switch
14:29 < jackbrown> djph, ok you made the point
14:29 < djph> the TV was more just that the manufacturer was retarded, and used b/g/n only (grrr 2.4GHz)
14:30 < jackbrown> djph, but how fast is your Fiber connection from outside I mean ?
14:30 < djph> what fiber connection?
14:30 < jackbrown> djph, your internet connection isn't fiber ?
14:30 < jackbrown> djph, I suppose 1GBps
14:30 < jackbrown> djph, the cable that from outside goes to your ER-5 ubiquity modem
14:31 < djph> well, it is, but the ONT handles the ISP-to-me connection
14:31 < xinming> djph: both connect directly without switch.
14:31 < jackbrown> djph, how fast it is ?
14:31 < djph> jackbrown: uhh
14:32 < djph> apparently 400/150 right now.
14:32 < jackbrown> djph, if it's 1Gbps and you put a 4 ports switch with 3 ports used to connect stuff, they will anyway have a 1Gbps limit if they are downloading from internet
14:32 < jackbrown> djph, less than 1GBps
14:32 < djph> hmm, wonder where the rest of the internets are
14:32 < jackbrown> djph, so I'm right ? if the media center the playstation and another perihpeal are downloading from interent
14:32 < djph> The point being, I'm sharing the data INTERNALLY.  It's not hitting the router in the first place.
14:33 < jackbrown> djph, sure for data sharing internally and for data transfer internally it will be a limit
14:33 < djph> I mean, maybe the TV / Playstation are (although, I don't do much in the way of multiplayer)
14:33 < jackbrown> djph, but not if you are downloading from internet since your ISP connection is slower  ?
14:33 < jackbrown> djph, am I right?
14:33 < djph> jackbrown: you're conflating routing and switching
14:33 < djph> I'm not sure what you're asking anymore
14:33 < jackbrown> djph, no no wait I will explain myself better, alway not for arguing just for understanding
14:34 < jackbrown> djph, ok let's suppose you have just 1 RJ45 Gibabit plug beneath your TV
14:34 < jackbrown> djph, you plut a cable into a 4 port switch then you plug other 3 ports to TV, Mediacenter and Playstatin
14:34 < jackbrown> djph, am I making myself clear ?
14:34 < djph> okay
14:35 < jackbrown> djph, those 3 devices are theoretically dividing 1Gigabit speed since the 1 switch port is hable to handle maximum speed of 1 Gibabit
14:35 < djph> correct
14:35 < jackbrown> djph, and it's spreading to the 3 ports
14:35 < regdude> Anyone knows the bridge count limit in Linux? I got tired of waiting after 1024
14:35 < jackbrown> djph, since your ISP connection is lower than 1GBPS, if your 3 perihpeals are downloading from internet you won't notice any difference
14:35 < mgolisch> but that is not a problem for a tv,mediacenter or a gameconsole
14:36 < jackbrown> djph, it will only affect your internal LAN speed if you want to trasnfer big files for example
14:36 < jackbrown> djph, everythign correct ?
14:36 < djph> jackbrown: correct (although, according to ATT, I have gbps symmetric)
14:36 < jackbrown> djph, dunno what is ATT and what is gbps symmetric
14:36 < jackbrown> djph, ATT = AT&T ? ISP ?
14:36 < djph> AT&T = an ISP (American Telegraph and Telephone)
14:37 < jackbrown> djph, ok fine here we don't have it in Italy but I know it
14:37 < djph> anyway, I *SHOULD* have symmetric 1gpbs service.
14:37 < jackbrown> djph, what is gbps symmetric and how does change what I said ?
14:37 < jackbrown> djph, isn't your connection 400MBps ?
14:37 < djph> the numbers I posted were a "right now" speedtest.
14:38 < jackbrown> djph, ok so they should provide you 1GBps
14:38 < djph> now I'm at 890/325.
14:38 < djph> They probably do, but then *the internet* at large is tons of computers all with different capabilities.
14:39 < jackbrown> djph, even if they give you a 1GBps it won't change what I said, if the 3 peripheals are both downloading from internet they will have more than enough band since the 1GBps speed of the lan port is more than the speed that your AT&R provider   PROVIDES
14:39 < jackbrown> all three downloading sorry for my english
14:40 < jackbrown> djph, anyway you have dream speed here in italy i'm waiting to have a 200MBps connection that will be soon at my home (I hope)
14:41 < jackbrown> djph, question while you connect two switches via SPF port will this limit in the same manner the second switch speed ?
14:41 < djph> jackbrown: AT&T *provides* 1gpbs (or close enough thereto)
14:42 < djph> jackbrown: daisy-chaining devices means that they're limited to the throughput of the uplink(s) used.
14:42 < jackbrown> djph, so if you connect a switch 16 ports to another 16 ports switch via SPF  what will happen ?
14:44 < djph> devices connected to switch2 will be limited to whatever the link between switch1 and switch2 is (e.g. 1gbps, or 10g), and ALL devices (sw1 + sw2) will ultimately be as slow as 1/32 of the connection speed between sw1 and whatever upstream device it's plugged into.  BUT again, this assumes 100% utilization of the switches.
14:46 < jackbrown> djph, yes sure we are talking theoritically, so basically it's not a good thing to upgrade a switch adding another one this way, best think is to buy one bigger so you wont have problems in the future
14:46 < jackbrown> djph, thanks! I understood lots of things
14:46 < jackbrown> djph, a lot of things
14:46 < djph> well, as with many things "it depends"
14:47 < jackbrown> djph, yes sure in an home evinroment I won't notice the difference
14:47 < jackbrown> djph, but theoretically there's a phisical limit due to the SFP to SFP connection of the two switches
14:47 < jackbrown> djph, and the second switche so is limited
14:49 < djph> yeah, but realisitically it depends on how heavily utilized the switches are ... and what you've got connected to them. I mean, a bunch of 10/100 devices on switch2 will run at full capacity until the 11th device is connected
14:49 < jackbrown> it's better to undertand deeply those thing so you can avoid to buy things that you don't need
14:50 < jackbrown> djph, correct anyway I don't think I will ever upgrade my switch since it's jusd an home eviroment but was good to understand
15:01 < voices> hey, i'm talking to my tutor online, and his network is blocking access to a web based whiteboard feature. would a vpn be useful here?
15:01 < djph> "maybe(tm)"
16:22 < purplex88> when i select obtain ip address automatically for my ethernet adapter, where does it get ip address from?
16:33 < ALowther> From which device, or through which service?
16:33 < ALowther> purplex88:
16:33 < purplex88> in windows 8.1
16:35 < ALowther> purplex88: Likely, the DHCP server on the router you are directly connected to.
16:35 < purplex88> there are two ips: local and public to internet
16:36 < purplex88> are both obtained from router?
16:36 < ALowther> On your computer?
16:36 < ALowther> How are your obtaining your public IP?
16:36 < purplex88> yes
16:36 < ALowther> are you*
16:36 < purplex88> from isp
16:36 < ALowther> purplex88: Yes, but how are you viewing it on your computer?
16:37 < purplex88> commmand prompt from network adapter ip
16:37 < ALowther> purplex88: Through ipconfig internally? Or thorough some external service like whatsmyip
16:37 < purplex88> for*
16:37 < purplex88> viewing my internet ip from google
16:38 < purplex88> viwing local ip from ipconfig
16:42 < ALowther> purplex88: Ah, okay. So likely - unless you have some interesting configuration - your ISP is assigning your public IP which interfaces with your WAN port on your router/modem. Then your DHCP server on your router is assigning IP addresses to the clients on your WAN....Your router is using Network Address Translation(NAT) to hold a table of incoming/outgoing network connections and converting between public/private IPs as the traffic c
16:42 < ALowther> omes in and out. So when you send a request out, your router takes your private IP and maps that with the request it is about to send out so it knows to which device it should return the response. But in doing so, it changes the IP address to your public IP address, so that the response can find it's way back. So when google receives your request, it sees your public IP address, which is what it is displaying to you. When the response
16:42 < ALowther> returns, your router looks at its table and sees the response from the address it sent the request to which is mapped to your private IP, it changes the IP address to your private IP so that the request can finish it's journey back to your device.
16:43 < purplex88> i want to know who is assigning my private ip..
16:43 < ALowther> so that the response can finish it's journey back to your device*
16:43 < ALowther> purplex88: Your router
16:43 < ALowther> The DHCP server on your router.
16:44 < ALowther> Find your default gateway from ipconfig in your command prompt
16:44 < ALowther> Likely 192.168.1.1
16:44 < ALowther> Then enter that into your browser.
16:44 < purplex88> i see, yes it is 192.168.1.1
16:44 < ALowther> You can interface with your router & likely change settings & view the DHCP server range/config
16:44 < ALowther> It really depends on your router, settings, ISP rules, etc.
16:45 < ALowther> purplex88: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_Host_Configuration_Protocol
17:24 < MarkusDBX> some lowend amd machine with ecc vs the new edgerouter?
17:24 < MarkusDBX> pfsense on the amd
17:28 < user867> hi
17:29 < user867> sometimes computer is available to share files and printer, sometimes its not, does this mean weak wifi signal?
17:37 < AlexPortable> Lets say I want better wifi coverage outside, the only option would be powerline. How feasable is a powerline + wifi adapter for outdoor usage?
17:37 < user867> how about a stronger router?
17:39 < AlexPortable> well if the device can't send back stronger it doesn't make sense
17:42 < HrStiefel> If you share the area with many SSIDs, maybe you have overlap... you need more Access Point
17:42 < Aeso> AlexPortable, that should work fine. Just be aware how much RF noise those powerline adapters put off. They basically turn your electrical distribution system into a giant antenna
17:43 < AlexPortable> is that bad?
17:43 < Aeso> only if you or any of your users use radios
17:43 < Aeso> (or your neighbors, etc)
17:44 < AlexPortable> so digging a cable into the ground would be better
17:44 < Aeso> very much so
17:44 < user77> anyone know why i can see shared printer only sometimes and not all the time?
17:44 < AlexPortable> how do i prevent the cable falling apart?
17:45 < Aeso> buy direct bury rated cable? I'm not sure I understand the problem
18:45 < Barones> Hi, how could 2 Border routers implement a fault tolerant network if usually there is only one wan link from hired each ISP link? I mean, what are best practices in to implement a fault tolerant network in a backbone network?
18:47 < ||cw> Barones: you have 2 separate things there.  one is fault tolerate routers, the other is fault tolerant ISPs.
18:48 < ||cw> each should be documented for your router, if it supports it, and combining the 2 should be straightforward
18:53 < Barones> ||cw, in a topology with 2 border routers, one peering with ur wan isp and the other as backup, even if I have two routers I still have a fault point that would be only one link, right?
18:53 < Barones> what would be the best practices to overcome that?
18:54 < Barones> I mean, I could get another isp company with a redundant link, but would peer that in the backup router, I could receive both links in a switch above the 2 border routers
18:55 < ||cw> and now you have a switch that's a fault point
18:56 < ||cw> I mean, how much do want to spend to save the time of someone walking over and swapping a cable in the remote chance one of these things fails?
18:59 < Barones> exactly, the new fault point would be the switch. I would spend enough to buy another border router
19:03 < detha> Barones: for anything you are worried about it breaking, get at least two. ISPs, routers, switches, servers, operators.
19:13 < station> I have 3 problems that I want to kill with one solution: A UPS usually takes ac and has a 12v battery to charge than gives AC for use (big power loss in conversion). I only connect a server (that needs Low battery safe shutdown) and a Passive POE network  with one router 30m distance and 2 camera 40m (max 10m form the router) The server cant tolerate any short circuit that may even happen intentional to that CCTV camera. So can I g
19:13 < station> o with a MeanWell AC-DC + Battery? I have to set a Battery low sensor + to old battery sensor replace warning light and on the router / CCTV some kind of Fuse (remotely resettable?????)
19:22 < ||cw> station: unless it's passive POE, no
19:22 < ||cw> oh wait, you did say passive
19:22 < station> passive POE
19:23 < station> y
19:23 < station> yes
19:23 < ||cw> you need a battery charger that can tolerate continuous use, not just a power supply
19:24 < ||cw> it need to limit the mA to the battery once it's fully charged, otherwise the battery might cook itself
19:26 < station> MeanWell???? ADD-155A dosent do that automatically? so I only have to care of low battery shutdown and replace battery led … http://www.meanwell.com/webapp/product/search.aspx?prod=add-155
19:29 < HrStiefel> cloe
19:30 < detha> station: I have tried something like that, and the reliability of those Meanwell things is not great
19:31 < station> for POE shal I go boost up converter to 36? or should i have 2 separate systems
19:31 < detha> It will work, for a while. But they are rough on the batteries, and sometimes 'just break'.
19:34 < station> hmmm I was an idiot and bought an no name UPS and now im stuck with no good software support and hops of building it from 0
19:35 < station> an APC UPS wouldn't be efficient but it would be reliable
19:36 < detha> APC, Eaton, or a clone of one of those
19:36 < station> clone?
19:36 < johnsmith92> Hello! I am experiencing sudden internet cuts through the day, can anyone help me diagnose it please? I'd blame my ISP but I can't say for myself
19:36 < detha> There are UPSes that are basically clones, at half the price, sold under various local brands
19:36 < johnsmith92> I've been using PingPlotter for 24 hours now and I have some statistics
19:38 < johnsmith92> Here's the graph: https://i.imgur.com/eDovhPy.png
19:38 < station> detha: clone hardware with no software compatibility, Im no electronict expert to figure wich all the wires are to get 12v of the UPSI have
19:39 < detha> station: under linux, the standard drivers for serial (or serial-over-USB) work for them
19:40 < station> ??? in OMV or PROXMOX  I was lost, now clue where to start
19:42 < buu> win 38
19:45 < station> win 38=?
19:46 < station> the gun?
19:47 < detha> /win 38 is probably what was intended
19:53 < station> it shoudnt be a problem connecting to my ups before it converts to ac on the pcb as long as I can find the right place hmmm?
20:40 <+pppingme> station I probably missed part of the question, what are you tryign to do? hook a bigger battery to your ups?
20:41 < station> I have 3 problems that I want to kill with one solution: A UPS usually takes ac and has a 12v battery to charge than gives AC for use (big power loss in conversion). I only connect a server (that needs Low battery safe shutdown) and a Passive POE network  with one router 30m distance and 2 camera 40m (max 10m form the router) The server cant tolerate any short circuit that may even happen intentional to that CCTV camera. So can I g
20:41 < station> o with a MeanWell AC-DC + Battery? I have to set a Battery low sensor + to old battery sensor replace warning light and on the router / CCTV some kind of Fuse (remotely resettable?????)
20:43 < station> pppingme: im now researching if its ok to have a regular PSU with an Arduino Acid battery UPS management :) hmmm how reliable sounds that?
20:44 < Apachez> https://twitter.com/_youhadonejob1/status/1011372064555655169  :D
20:47 < station> and apparently yes there are a lot who tried it
20:47 < Aeso> station, I don't know about 'big' power loss. Most triple-conversion units are >95% efficient.
20:51 < station> and then comes my 30-40meter poe…
20:52 < station> how efficient is that?
21:06 <+pppingme> station you using cat6 for the PoE?
21:06 < Whiskey`> eh
21:07 < Whiskey`> sounds like he is sure doing the power side of this wrong
21:07 <+pppingme> yeah, I think I got lost in it, I'm gona have to ask for a drawing probably
21:08 < Apachez> what could possibly go wrong?
21:08 < Whiskey`> that hes doing it about as hacky as possible?
21:09 < Whiskey`> I do battery abckups all the time. its not hard.
21:09 < Whiskey`> at the most simple, AC charger -> battery bank -> inverter -> load
21:09 < Whiskey`> if you can do away with the inverter it saves
21:09 < Whiskey`> wb skyroveRR
21:10 <+pppingme> but the inverter in the line (vs wrapped around with relays) has the potential for a cleaner cutover
21:10 <+pppingme> i.e. an "online ups"
21:10 < Whiskey`> need to make sure the server is always on? add more batts for longer run time but understand, unless you have a genset your runtime is limited
21:11 < Whiskey`> well the setup i listed is 100% online and never even knows if AC cuts out or not
21:11 < Whiskey`> I use that setup at all my towers, with and with out AC
21:11 <+pppingme> only if the inverter never burns out..
21:11 < Whiskey`> sure, but thats true of everything
21:11 <+pppingme> get two inverters that can sync with each other and parallel them
21:11 < station> as hacky as possible lol
21:11 < Whiskey`> i asusme if his uptime is so important hes got a dual psu server
21:12 <+pppingme> yeah, most real stuff is at least dual psu..  just setup two unrelated power streams like you suggested
21:12 < Whiskey`> and id drop in a DC psu for the 2nd slot
21:12 <+pppingme> some devices you can't mix/match, they have to be same style of psu, no idea why...
21:13 <+pppingme> I think HP stuff is like that
21:14 < zenix_2k2> one question, is DNS a protocol or a type of software ?
21:14 < Whiskey`> some is ya
21:14 < Whiskey`> zenix_2k2: depending on how you view it, both. but its a protocol
21:15 < Whiskey`> that is implemented in software....
21:15 < station> DNS software
21:15 < omglldp> https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1035.txt
21:17 < omglldp> Also zenix_2k2, https://www.amazon.com/DNS-BIND-5th-Cricket-Liu/dp/0596100574
21:17 < zenix_2k2> so on which view it is a protocol and which it is a software ?
21:17 < omglldp> The DNS protocol is implemented by software. ie Bind
21:19 < Peng_> zenix_2k2: You could have Googled it
21:19 < zenix_2k2> if it did show then i wouldn't be here
21:19 < zenix_2k2> try "which view it is a protocol and which it is a software ?" will ya ?
21:19 < Apachez> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f40_7lunCBA   Den blomstertid nu kommer | "Rosenbad" - Behind the scenes
22:02 < ktwo> Hi, i want to connect a raspberry pi to a VPN (the Pi is connected via WiFi to the regular network). Then a TV will be connected via cable to the Pi LAN port. What is the easiest configuration to do this?
22:02 < alabaster> I don't want to just ask a question and be rude so I preface first... May I ask a question?
22:03 < alabaster> If anyone knows
22:03 < alabaster> Why are VMware Virtual adapters or NICs or whatever they are called creating traffic while the software isn't running on my computer
22:04 < ktwo> Are you sure no VMware exe process is running?
22:04 < ktwo> usually they stay in background
22:04 < alabaster> I'm sure they are but...
22:04 < alabaster> If I stop them will it cause any issue?
22:05 < ktwo> Well if you want to use VMware they will just restart automatically
22:05 <+catphish> does anyone have any experience with any really cheap ip phones?
22:05 < Aeso> catphish, define _really_ cheap
22:05 < alabaster> Basically I am learning network and learning wireshark and don't know if thats causing more nonsense when viewing all those
22:06 < alabaster> networking*
22:06 <+catphish> Aeso: sub $50
22:07 < ktwo> Also in addition to the rpi question: Can anyone recommend a VPN service which allows me to watch BBC iPlayer (UK)?
22:07 <+catphish> somthing like the yealink t19p
22:07 <+catphish> though i don't think yealink many any devices that cheap any more
22:08 <+catphish> oh, actually they do still make them, they might be fine, but wondered if anyone had any experience with anything else
22:08 < Aeso> catphish, do you need BLFs?
22:09 <+catphish> Aeso: not really
22:10 <+catphish> yeah the yealink t19p is the cheapest i can buy from my normal distributor at $50, plus the cost of a power supply
22:11 < Aeso> catphish, I've had good luck with the GXP1625s as budget phones
22:11 < Aeso> but in that price range, they're all the same anyways
22:11 <+catphish> ah yes, i see  GXP1625, that's about the same price, i also see GXP1610 which is even cheaper
22:12 < Aeso> the big difference between the 1610 and 1625 is the 1625 handset comes with wideband speaker/mic, so on g.722/729 the audio quality is much improved
22:12 <+catphish> GXP1610 is $35 including PSU
22:12 < Aeso> aka 'HD audio' (thanks, marketing)
22:13 < Aeso> also 1625 is PoE where 1620 is not
22:13 <+catphish> interesting, i'm not really sure about those codecs, they seem kinda pointless when most calls go over the public G711 network anyway
22:13 <+catphish> do they do a cheap dect?
22:14 < Aeso> they didn't, back when I worked in VOIP ~2 years ago
22:15 <+catphish> looks like they do http://www.grandstream.com/products/ip-voice-telephony/cordless-ip-phones/product/dp720
22:15 < Aeso> looks like they do now, not sure on the price of the DP720 though
22:15 <+catphish> my didstributor doesnt seem to stock them :(
22:16 <+catphish> there are cheaper options for dect i think
22:16 < Aeso> probably so
22:16 < Aeso> we used to use... unicom for dects?
22:16 <+catphish> gigaset do the cheapest that i know of
22:17 < Aeso> I spent months going back and forth with the Korean support and the local distributor fixing errant wifi behavior though, so YMMV
22:18 < Aeso> sorry, unidata INCOM ICW-1000G
22:18 < Aeso> but again, YMMV
22:19 <+catphish> seems a bit expensive, dect probably cheaper than wifi
22:19 < Aeso> true
22:20 <+catphish> i've used these in the past https://www.netxl.com/dect-voip-phones/gigaset-n300ip-base-station-and-a540h-handset-bundle-1-handset/?gclid=CjwKCAjwyMfZBRAXEiwA-R3gMzl0WosGusLVL3bhT7dyS47fWRdFW2USu4fZBO0IVDo8l1szhxf9vhoC7b8QAvD_BwE
22:20 <+catphish> they work, but are pretty crappy
--- Log closed Wed Jun 27 00:00:15 2018